1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:05,080 Hello and welcome to another episode of the AIGA Design 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:07,880 Podcast. My name is Lee Sean Huang, Co 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,800 Executive Director of Learning and Programs here at AIGA, the 4 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:13,960 professional association for design. 5 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,080 On this season of the show, we are exploring the theme of 6 00:00:17,080 --> 00:00:20,880 design and performance, which will culminate in our design 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:25,040 conference this October 9th through 11th in Los Angeles, CA. 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,000 Now for my Co host and our guest. 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,480 Hi everyone. I'm Julia Donatello. 10 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:34,160 I'm the design competitions and event Manager at AIG. 11 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,800 And now for our guest for this episode, Sunny Bonnell from 12 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:38,920 Motto. Hi, Sunny. 13 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:40,240 Thank you for joining us on the show. 14 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:42,000 I'm happy to be here, thanks for having me. 15 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:44,320 Yeah, let's jump straight into things. 16 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,120 Can you please share a bit more about yourself and your career 17 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,740 journey so far? You have such an interesting non 18 00:00:49,740 --> 00:00:52,080 linear career path that we're looking forward to exploring 19 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,960 with you from street musician, actor to veterinarian to 20 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,520 designer. So yeah, can you walk us through 21 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,280 a bit of that journey and what motivated you to follow this 22 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,720 path? Yeah, well, I come from a bit of 23 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,000 a colorful background as you as you illuminated there, which is 24 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:13,240 St. musician to performance artist to vet school, pre vet to 25 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:18,320 dropping out to becoming a designer in early 2005. 26 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,080 So my Co founder and I dropped out of college together with 27 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:27,200 $250 and we started Motto from a warehouse in a tiny coastal town 28 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,200 in South Carolina. And at first glance those I 29 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,360 guess paths seem kind of disconnected, but there's a 30 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,560 thread that absolutely ties them together, which is the desire 31 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:41,440 was to just kind of excite people, energize people, inspire 32 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:43,320 people. And whether it was through song 33 00:01:43,320 --> 00:01:47,200 or performance or animals, it just tied it all together. 34 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:51,440 And I sort of found my calling moonlighting as a graphic 35 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,160 designer on the side. So as I was going into pre vet 36 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:59,000 school, I was moonlighting for musicians and bands, developing 37 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:03,160 posters, designing experiences and just really felt in love 38 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:04,720 with it. And I think at the heart of all 39 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:08,080 of those was I was just trying to find a way to stir emotion 40 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,120 and really inspire action. And I think founding motto was 41 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,640 that moment where I realized I could bring all of that into one 42 00:02:14,640 --> 00:02:16,880 place. So think of, you know, as a 43 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,840 performance artist, you, you're, you're a bit of an orchestrator 44 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:24,560 and I think brand is tied to that, how you bring a lot of 45 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,440 disparate parts together to create a whole or to create an 46 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,000 entire picture. And so for me, it was just 47 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:34,040 uniting all of those gifts and all of the skills that I had in 48 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,800 my own zone of genius and applying them to something I was 49 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,840 extremely passionate about and also just had a bit of an 50 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,000 uncanny knack for. And so as we began to get 51 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,560 clients and start to see that, hey, this could be a career, we 52 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:51,400 just took and went full force on that vision and just had went, 53 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,120 went into with full, full guts and vision and audacity to try 54 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,040 to launch Motto into the stratosphere. 55 00:02:57,760 --> 00:02:59,400 Looking forward to learning more about Motto. 56 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,520 I also love that phrase that you used, Zone of Genius. 57 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,560 I'm curious to follow up on that intro. 58 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,040 What are your thoughts about this theme of design and 59 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:09,840 performance? Obviously you have a background 60 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,880 as a performer, but how do you bring that into what you do now 61 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,720 as a designer and as Co founder and CEO of Motto? 62 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,480 Well, performance isn't just for a stage. 63 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,360 I think it's built into how we show up in the world and how we 64 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,640 perform in the world, and it's tied to often our identities and 65 00:03:26,640 --> 00:03:29,520 our career. So as a musician, I really 66 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,800 learned, I think early on, I started playing music when I was 67 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:37,120 8 years old, so I grew up playing bluegrass and gospel and 68 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:41,120 really being a performer from a very, very young age. 69 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:45,480 So I learned how to be out in the world in front of a huge 70 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:50,680 audience, really, really young. And so both require a lot of 71 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,040 presence and intentionality and also an understanding of your 72 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,720 audience. So I think as a musician I 73 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,200 learned how to command attention. 74 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,480 And then as I developed as a young leader, I learned how to 75 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,800 command belief. And so the two of those things 76 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:10,600 together, I think made-up sort of a unique background and and 77 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,680 unification of like these two worlds coming together to kind 78 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,959 of give me some sense of confidence to be able to be in 79 00:04:16,959 --> 00:04:18,880 front of a lot of people at any given time. 80 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,920 But also, what is the story you try to tell? 81 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,120 You do that through brand, you do that through music. 82 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,040 And I think that the best designers don't just make 83 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:28,240 things. They really move people. 84 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,200 They inspire people. And I believe that's 85 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,760 performance. Amazing. 86 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:35,680 Yes. So you mentioned that you're the 87 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:41,080 Co founder and CEO of Motor and you name it as a brand 88 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:45,600 transformation agency, which I love the way you chose these 89 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,600 words. I wanted to hear more from you. 90 00:04:48,280 --> 00:04:51,280 What do you mean by that? And also, what What's the 91 00:04:51,280 --> 00:04:53,640 coolest part of owning your own business? 92 00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:57,200 Well, Motto is a strategic brand transformation company. 93 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,840 We really work with leaders and organizations at times of 94 00:05:00,840 --> 00:05:04,360 pivotal growth and transformation to help drive 95 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:06,640 them into that future. So wherever they are trying to 96 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,640 go, there's usually some element of transformation that needs to 97 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,160 occur in order for them to reach that new height. 98 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,400 And So what Motto does we, we specialize in innovation and 99 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,880 tech, although because we just celebrated our 20th year in 100 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,560 business actually this past March, we have been working 101 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,360 across, across all types of verticals and sectors and 102 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,880 different types of categories. But over the last couple of 103 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,600 years, we've really, really focused on tech and innovation 104 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:37,440 as a sweet spot because we find that we can really bolt on to 105 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,280 like a, a big vision and be able to help their leadership team 106 00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:45,360 not only achieve that vision, but use brand and use culture to 107 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,680 drive them into that new future. And we'd like to be a part of 108 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:50,520 that. So transformation is really at 109 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,160 the heart of everything we do for for organizations, you know, 110 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,800 there's a beginning state and then there's a next level state 111 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,320 and we're always transforming companies from that beginning 112 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,320 state to that next transformation state. 113 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:08,160 When I think of the coolest part of owning a business, I think if 114 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,520 you would have asked me when I was 20 some years old when I 115 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,960 started Motto, it would have been about being able to wrestle 116 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:19,200 your vision forward in a world that at the time, because we are 117 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,960 female owned, the two of us are we're young females in a 118 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:27,360 industry that is not notoriously female dominated, right? 119 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,800 It's male dominated. And so we were pretty rare in 120 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,800 that regard to be two young females coming out to try to 121 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:39,600 launch a branding company. And also, if you ask me now, the 122 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,680 coolest part is, is that I get to build the kind of company 123 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:48,520 that I always dreamed about in terms of like what I wanted and 124 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:53,480 what we wanted motto to be. So it allowed us to understand 125 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,440 that there were businesses that we were working with and we, we 126 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:58,440 were in cultures day in and day out. 127 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:00,920 And it allowed us to see kind of the good, bad and the 128 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,480 surprising. And it taught us a lot about 129 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:05,600 that. Brand is not something that's 130 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:07,320 left to the, to the marketing department. 131 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,960 Like brand is an inside job. It is inside the company and 132 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:12,880 it's driven by vision and culture. 133 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,320 And so it gave us a bit of a blueprint of like what we wanted 134 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,480 our culture to be at Motto. And so I think the coolest thing 135 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,880 about it is that I get to shape that culture, not just inside 136 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,760 Motto, but for our clients too. And it's deeply fulfilling about 137 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:31,040 helping a founder articulate a vision or a leadership team 138 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,440 articulate a vision and then watching their team rally around 139 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:36,520 it. And in some cases, what Ashley 140 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,160 and I and that the team do extraordinarily well is that 141 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,160 you're not just building brands or really building belief 142 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,880 systems. And so we can heavily influence 143 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,040 that with the work that we do. And it's just very meaningful. 144 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,960 I think in the beginning it was about trying to prove doubters 145 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,600 wrong. And then as the work and as we 146 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,040 were able to have some staying power and we're able to do 147 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:01,200 incredible work, it then became more meaningful, not about us, 148 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,480 but about the people that we were working with and also the 149 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:07,040 team that we started to build. So it was sort of selfish in the 150 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,800 beginning because we were just young and just wanted to try to 151 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,240 prove ourselves. But as we developed the business 152 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,000 over time, it became much more about the people that we serve 153 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,040 and the people that we work with in the in our team. 154 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,200 And that that is incredibly rewarding because it you kind of 155 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,760 go to business every day and you go to work every day with people 156 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,920 that we really love and that you're really motivated by and 157 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:28,760 inspired by. And at the same time, you get to 158 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:30,200 do really amazing things with them. 159 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:32,720 That's amazing. Yeah. 160 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,760 We wanted to come back to learning more about design, 161 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,280 shaping, company cultures and stuff like that. 162 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,880 But there's a few things that you'd said earlier that stood 163 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:44,760 out to me. One was this idea of influencing 164 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,720 belief systems or in a previous answer, you also talked about 165 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:52,120 commanding belief as a leader, as a performer, as a designer. 166 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:56,080 And so at motto, you have a motto or a tagline of ideas 167 00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:00,000 worth rallying around. And yeah, how does that connect 168 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,400 with belief, belief systems and and the work that you do? 169 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,320 Yeah. Well, we came up with that 170 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:09,800 because at the heart of motto is the nomenclature behind the word 171 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:11,520 motto. The reason we called the company 172 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,360 motto is that a motto is a purpose to cause a belief. 173 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,920 And we kept asking ourselves, what are we doing for companies? 174 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:19,840 What are we doing for our in our work? 175 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,000 And it really was about shaping ideas and helping these 176 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,400 companies find their motto and articulate that motto and drive 177 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,080 it down through the brand. And as we begin to think about 178 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,320 what makes a powerful idea, well, a powerful idea is 179 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,760 something that you can rally around, that the people can 180 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,360 support, can believe in, and help you build. 181 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,040 And so we landed on this concept of ideas worth rallying around. 182 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,600 The way that we define that is an idea worth rallying around is 183 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,640 the signature idea that sits at the heart of a business and 184 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,400 makes it famous. It is the thing that you become 185 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,960 known in the world for. And a lot of organizations know 186 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,800 this. They have it within the walls of 187 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,320 everything that they're doing. But a lot of times it's not 188 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:03,240 codified, a lot of times sort of shuffled down and into a 189 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,800 tagline, which a, a big idea is much, much bigger than that. 190 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,440 It is internal and external and it's omnidirectional. 191 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,440 So when we're working with a client, we're really trying to 192 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:18,280 help them define and articulate, but also come alive that big 193 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,960 idea so that they can really push it through the culture, 194 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,840 push it down through the brand, and like ultimately rally their 195 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,480 entire audiences around it and their people. 196 00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:29,840 It's awesome. It's very interesting how you 197 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,160 start with brand and and then you mentioned about company 198 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:37,080 culture and then it transformed it in, in belief systems. 199 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,440 What do you think looking back now, you mentioned that your 200 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,640 company just celebrated 2020 years. 201 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:46,040 Congratulations, that's a big deal. 202 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:47,200 Thank you. Thank you. 203 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,080 What? What do you see as the major 204 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:53,960 shift in the design ecosystem over the the past past years or 205 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:59,800 even decades? I think design used to be a very 206 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:04,720 intimate process and I think with AI and democratized tools, 207 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,040 it's it's everywhere and it's faster than ever and everyone 208 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,000 has access to it. In some ways that's powerful 209 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,840 because it allows us to be more powerful than ever and to use 210 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,200 these tools and really exciting ways. 211 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,520 It's not just about speed or access. 212 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:20,760 I think the real shift is in the meaning. 213 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,360 You know, in a world really flooded with content, I think 214 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,600 leaders and designers are being asked, like, what does this 215 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:28,600 stand for? Why does it matter? 216 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,840 And how do I make this in some ways original? 217 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,760 And is originality even part of our vernacular anymore? 218 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,960 And I think the future of design is really going to be tied to 219 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:45,360 how we use these tools for forces of good, but also use 220 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,520 them in a way that allows us to not just make things pretty, but 221 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,480 make them matter. And that's going to be a really 222 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:55,600 challenging thing because now we're sort of democratizing 223 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,760 design in a way that is more saturated than ever before. 224 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:04,520 I mean, even when we started Motto, there was probably, I 225 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:08,440 would say under, under 1000 design agencies, right? 226 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,360 Or at the time, maybe advertising agencies, and very 227 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,360 few of them called themselves branding agencies. 228 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,360 But now there's something like 600,000, right? 229 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,520 Or maybe even more here in the US Then it's just a noisy traded 230 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,840 landscape out there right now. And I think it's becoming harder 231 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,960 for brands to have something to say, have something to say 232 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,120 that's meaningful, be able to rise above the noise and to be 233 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,960 able to get themselves like noticed in a way where you can 234 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,640 remember who's who. I'm even on calls now where 235 00:12:38,680 --> 00:12:41,400 folks will be kind of shuffling their papers and be like, OK, 236 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:43,400 you're, you're from motto, right? 237 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:45,920 Because they're talking to like 20 firms. 238 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,680 And So what we started, when we started to realize that was 239 00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:51,360 happening, we were like, OK, how do we actually, what, what is 240 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,600 our zone of genius core differentiator? 241 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,320 What do we really have that maybe is really unique to us? 242 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:00,200 And so it's it's causing a lot of inward looking in order to be 243 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,960 more efficient outwardly. You, we're talking about this 244 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,880 democratization of design and of leadership. 245 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,320 And so I wanted to talk about something else you're involved 246 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,520 in, which is Vision Camp. You're the cofounder and creator 247 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,120 of Vision Camp, which is a leadership program. 248 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,960 So can you tell us more about Vision Camp and what sets us 249 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,560 apart from other leadership programs and who is it for? 250 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:24,840 Well. Vision Camp was a really 251 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:29,280 interesting idea. It started because we realized 252 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,200 as we were working with leadership teams and we have 253 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,720 clients as you know, biggest virgin to, I mean, real 254 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,640 innovation companies and you know, to Microsoft, to Google, 255 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,800 like big, big innovation teams. And one of the things that we 256 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,840 kept sort of coming back to was like there was always sort of a 257 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,640 visionary or a set of visionaries at the top. 258 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,560 But as you went down through the company, you started to see that 259 00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:52,320 there was splinters in that vision. 260 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:57,680 And when we did some research on this, we learned that only one 261 00:13:57,680 --> 00:14:02,680 in 10,000 organizations are ran by a visionary or ran by what 262 00:14:02,680 --> 00:14:05,640 their team considers is a visionary leader. 263 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:10,320 So that means about one in 10,000.1% that told us that 264 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:15,080 visionary leadership is the is kind of not the rule and that 265 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:19,040 visionaries are an exception. And so we wondered, well, how 266 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:23,440 could we not only train and teach visionary leadership, but 267 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:28,080 how could we bring leadership teams to vision camp to educate 268 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,640 them on what a vision statement actually is? 269 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,440 What are the traits of visionaries and how do you 270 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:38,400 mobilize people around that vision to drive innovation? 271 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,640 And we realized there was nowhere you could go to actually 272 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:43,760 learn about this. You can go to brand workshops, 273 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,520 you can go to leadership workshops, you can train on AI, 274 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:50,720 you can train on the coding, but you can't really be trained on 275 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,400 vision. Are you visionary or are you not 276 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,000 visionary? And how do you know the 277 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,080 differences? And so we launched Vision camp 278 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:01,040 about two years ago with a pilot and we ran 3 pilots and they all 279 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,600 sold out. And we just opened it to anyone 280 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,960 who wanted to join. And we had leaders from all 281 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,840 around the world join from everywhere, from Nigeria to 282 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,160 Europe and and beyond. And it was such an incredible 283 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,440 thing because we were like, OK, people actually want this and 284 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,320 they want to know about it. And then we realized putting on 285 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:21,400 events and trying to do it that way was not ideal. 286 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:25,080 So we decided to turn it into an executive leadership workshop. 287 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:29,760 So now what we do is over 2 days, we work with teams usually 288 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,040 somewhere in the neighborhood of under 15 steering groups and we 289 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,480 bring them together and over 2 days virtually or in person, we 290 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,280 walk them through day one, which is about education. 291 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,600 And day 2 is about empowerment and building out. 292 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,320 What we've developed is a vision script, which their entire team 293 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:49,720 builds and is proprietary to us. No one else has it because it's 294 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:51,720 been developed over a really long period of time. 295 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,280 And we have these teams build their own vision script and they 296 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,560 run that out over the next year. And so we check in with them 297 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:00,640 over the course of a year to see how they're doing. 298 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,280 So the last team that that we ran it through was the Minnesota 299 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:08,200 Vikings and Vision Camp drove their 2025 Strategic Vision. 300 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,320 So it's a very powerful program and I think we're just 301 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:13,600 scratching the surface of what it can actually be. 302 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,400 It's sort of new and I'm sure that it's going to take some 303 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,560 time to get its footing, but so far we're seeing a tremendous 304 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:21,600 amount of excitement around it just because there's nothing out 305 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:22,720 there like it. Amazing. 306 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,760 I feel like we could do a whole episode just on that. 307 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:27,680 The next one, you just invite me back on that. 308 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,560 Exactly. And it's so interesting that the 309 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:34,920 workshop doesn't end, so the whole process, it just stays 310 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,840 with them and you check on them after a year. 311 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,240 That's amazing to see. Yeah, because implementation. 312 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,480 On those days, yeah, of course. Yeah, because vision is really 313 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,320 hard for a lot of teams to action. 314 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:50,280 A lot of times it belongs to the visionary or the visionaries of 315 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,560 that company, rather than it being something that they know 316 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,760 how to extract from the visionary and then down 317 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,280 throughout the company so that they can act on it and, and, and 318 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,760 build upon it. And so we've created this sort 319 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:03,600 of framework that allows you to do that. 320 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,280 And it's incredible. I mean, the, the, the outcomes 321 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:09,720 of what people have done after vision camp is really exciting. 322 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,240 We've worked with people who are starting companies, but also 323 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:16,000 entire steering groups of big, big organizations that have ran 324 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:17,680 through vision camp. The other cool thing, and I'll 325 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,920 just make this quick note and wrap it, but they also, we also 326 00:17:21,079 --> 00:17:22,839 give out badges and certificates. 327 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,839 So when you graduate from vision camp, you get a certificate and 328 00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:30,000 you get a set of badges just to again, like bring this down 329 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,840 through your team. Because we believe that if we 330 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,000 create a world where there are more visionaries in 331 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:39,080 organizations, not only do they run better teams, but they run 332 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,680 more provocative and innovative teams. 333 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:45,200 If someone is actually trained on what vision and visionary 334 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:49,600 leadership actually is, because there are things about it that a 335 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,160 lot of people don't know, it's, it's very important to 336 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,400 understand the differences because there is differences 337 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,480 between being a manager, a boss, a leader, and #1A visionary 338 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,760 leader. And how do you be the best that 339 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,320 you can possibly be so that you can inspire people to do the 340 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,160 things that you want them to do so that they feel like they're 341 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,160 part of something greater. And Vision Camp is the answer to 342 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,200 that. That's great. 343 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:17,800 That's very, very cool to learn. So, Sunny, I'm sure you have 344 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,840 learned and even unlearned many things throughout your career. 345 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,880 What's the common piece of advice that you strongly 346 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,560 disagree with, and what is the alternative perspective that 347 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,840 usually you bring to the table? Just show us something to get 348 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:37,120 started that the famous quote, right? 349 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:42,040 I think that request that I see a lot from teams feels like an 350 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,600 outdated practice. Meaning if you have created a 351 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,840 brief and you go out to 15 agencies and you ask that agency 352 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,240 to show you some ways in. I think it devalues creative 353 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:57,040 thinking and it also visionary thinking doesn't come from a one 354 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,400 off mock up. It comes from partnership. 355 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,880 It comes from trust and it comes from deeper understanding. 356 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,560 When clients invest in that thinking, they get ideas that 357 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,680 can really change their company. I always say if it's free, it's 358 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,120 probably not worth much. Not to say that it's not 359 00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:15,320 valuable because it can be valuable. 360 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,520 But I think for the work that we do specifically, it's important 361 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:23,920 to invest in the minds that are trying to solve a real business 362 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,280 problem. And usually business problems 363 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,720 are complex. They're multifaceted. 364 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:33,280 They require you to study. I'm pretty good in the room when 365 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:37,760 I hear a client walk me through in a 30 minute call what their 366 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,000 hopes and dreams are and what their challenges are, because 367 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,800 I've gotten really good at pattern recognition. 368 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,080 When you begin to solve these problems a lot, and again and 369 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,720 again and again, your expertise becomes incredibly valuable 370 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,760 because you're able to ascertain where they're at probably in a 371 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,080 matter of minutes. But in order to solve it, you 372 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,080 need to take time, you need to be paid for that time. 373 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,960 And so I think it really is a disadvantage to creative 374 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:06,280 companies everywhere that we're being asked to do that kind of 375 00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:08,640 sort of spec work. I mean, there's probably some 376 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,640 form of that that's going on, but I think we're in 2025 and we 377 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,520 shouldn't be doing that to creative companies any longer. 378 00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:18,600 And I really fundamentally disagree with that practice. 379 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,040 I think you can have a great brief, but you're hiring someone 380 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,240 to come out and give you an evaluation and to really 381 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,680 understand the intricacies of your business, which often can't 382 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,600 be summarized in a 30 minute call. 383 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:31,280 You need to do a little bit more work. 384 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,280 And so I think you should be paid for that work. 385 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,760 And maybe if you narrow it down to three companies, like pay 386 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:40,480 those three companies a nominal amount to just get some initial 387 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,520 ideas or iterations if that's what you want, But I don't 388 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,760 believe in asking companies for free work. 389 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,680 Yeah, totally agree. And I was actually just speaking 390 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,800 to another studio owner about this very topic last week. 391 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,440 So hopefully more folks start to understand this and figure out 392 00:20:55,440 --> 00:21:00,120 ways to act collectively on this and so on this theme of things 393 00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:02,960 that you disagree with orthodoxies that you are 394 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,720 opposing. My next question is about yet 395 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,000 another hat that you wear Sunny, which is that of best selling 396 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:10,920 author. You wrote a book called Rare 397 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,560 Breed, A Guide to Success for the Defiant, Dangerous and 398 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,360 Different, which is a book that flips the script on business as 399 00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:23,880 usual kind of thinking, has readers think about other paths 400 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,400 for success. So yeah, can you tell us about 401 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,040 that book? And yeah, what are some of these 402 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,160 ways to be defiant, dangerous and different? 403 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,640 Well, a lot of companies want to be brave, but it's it's there's 404 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,840 a price to being that. And for brands, I think you have 405 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,920 to straddle this contradiction a lot, which is you have to be 406 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:42,480 bold, but you have to be strategic. 407 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:44,800 You have to be human, but you have to be scalable. 408 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,200 You have to be rebellious, but you have to be relevant. 409 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,600 And we help companies kind of laser in on that. 410 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,200 But the book is actually about individual traits that then can 411 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,600 be applied to company traits. So in the book Rare Breed, A 412 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,520 Guide to Success for the Defiant, Dangerous, and 413 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,680 Different, we cover 7 so-called vices that society deems are 414 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:04,600 counterintuitive to your success. 415 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,120 Meaning, everything that you've ever been told. 416 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,720 Quiet down, keep your head down, don't ruffle feathers, right? 417 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,920 That's not great advice. Because ultimately, if that is a 418 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,840 superpower of yours, meaning rebellious is something that you 419 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,640 bring to the table, well, that is a gift. 420 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,360 That isn't a that's a virtue, not a vice. 421 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,920 However, over time, because those traits also have a dark 422 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,360 side, they can be in fact a vice. 423 00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:35,320 And so the book really educates you on how do you take a vice or 424 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,160 a so-called vice and turn that into a virtue. 425 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,920 What was interesting about the book and why I think it took off 426 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:45,040 was because it started with the individual meaning, you know, I 427 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,680 think Ashley and I way back early on, probably being 428 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,880 audacious, being rebellious, being hot blooded, being all the 429 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:52,480 traits that we talk about in the book. 430 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,760 It was our superpower. It allowed us to actually 431 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,840 breakthrough. But at the same time, it's you 432 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,600 have to temper it because if you come into every room banging on 433 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,320 the table or slamming doors or being so rebellious that you 434 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,880 don't hear anybody, anybody else's ideas or opinions, like 435 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,480 it can turn into that vice and that dark side really, really 436 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,400 quickly. And so it was really about 437 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,920 education. How do you actually turn that 438 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,480 that gift that you have? How do you use it in a way where 439 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,320 you don't get fired from every job that you ever work on? 440 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,400 Because. One of these traits are at play, 441 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,840 but more importantly then what we saw happen was leaders were 442 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,440 reading the book and then bringing it to their companies 443 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,720 and saying I think we might be one of these traits as an 444 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:38,200 organization and I would love to know who on my team is one of 445 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,720 these 7 vices. And so then we created a quiz. 446 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:45,200 We had something close to 30,000 people in the first year take 447 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,320 the quiz and the quiz Red Breed quiz.com. 448 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,080 It allows you to take 28 questions, and it tells you what 449 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,400 is your dominant virtue. And then it tells you what are 450 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,680 the positives of that virtue and what are the negatives of that 451 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,080 virtue and how do you use that virtue to your advantage. 452 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,360 And then we had companies doing it, and they were like, we want 453 00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:05,400 to be more rebellious, we want to be more audacious. 454 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,480 So it was just really cool to see that happen with the book. 455 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:09,880 But that's kind of the heart of it, yeah. 456 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,280 We'll post a link to that in the show notes in the description 457 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,440 for this episode as well. But yeah, thank you for sharing 458 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:18,640 that. I feel like, you know, a lot of 459 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,680 these traits are sort of like they're what makes somebody 460 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,240 unique, what makes a creative professional, a creative leader 461 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:25,520 unique. But then it's like learning how 462 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,640 to balance that, right? Of like, OK, how do you be 463 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,720 defiant to push things internally within a culture, but 464 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,520 you know, not so much that you could fire from every job as you 465 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,640 were saying, and that finding that balance. 466 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,920 Is a. Part of that journey. 467 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:45,400 So Sunny, you're bringing many perspectives of examples of 468 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,920 performance when it comes to company performance, but also 469 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:54,560 the creative professionals side. I'm curious to hear from you 470 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,560 what what do you think was the best failure or let's say 471 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,760 unexpected outcome that taught you about performance? 472 00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:08,440 I, you know, interestingly, just coming off the the tail end of 473 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,840 the book, the original iteration of Rare Breed got rejected I 474 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,520 think 15 to 16 times by every major publisher. 475 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,680 And it was because we had positioned the book incorrectly. 476 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:25,040 So we had the right name and we had a fairly good subtitle, but 477 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,560 we were kind of coming at it as a branding book. 478 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,400 And I remember all the publishers were like, this is 479 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,400 such an incredible book, but branding books don't sell. 480 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,800 And so they rejected it right out of the gate. 481 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,640 And so we went to our agent and we were like, we're not going 482 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,480 to, we're not going to give up on the book. 483 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,720 So we want to rewrite it. And so we tore the whole thing 484 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,960 down, rewrote it, and we wrote, we penned all the letters, all 485 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,360 the rejection letters up on the wall and rewrote to all the 486 00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:53,720 rejection letters because we, we just had a feeling that we were 487 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,800 onto something with the title and the subtitle. 488 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,880 And so we rewrote the book and we rewrote it through this lens 489 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,720 of what it what if the parts of yourself that other people 490 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,720 criticize, traits they call define dangerous and different, 491 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,120 were actually your superpowers? How could you succeed because of 492 00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:10,240 who you are not despite who you are? 493 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,040 And that became the thesis of the book. 494 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,400 And so we went back to all of those publishers and it went to 495 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,640 a bidding war. And it taught us a lot about 496 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,680 resilience and perseverance and tenacity. 497 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,600 But it also told it, it taught us a lot about belief. 498 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,760 When you have something to say, how important it is to just not 499 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:36,280 give up and to keep pushing because on every, with every no, 500 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,160 there's a yes on the next one. So that is a huge lesson. 501 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:45,480 And it as an entrepreneur, you just have to be willing to hear 502 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:50,160 no a lot but not always listen. Yeah, on that point of 503 00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:54,920 listening. And yeah, curious about like 504 00:26:54,920 --> 00:27:00,240 some of your rituals or habits that you've see as being 505 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,720 essential to your success and how you got to where you are 506 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:04,680 now. So, yeah. 507 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,920 Do you have any habits or rituals that you'd like to share 508 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,920 with us? Well, I run a global team now. 509 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:10,920 So Ashley and I have scaled the company. 510 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,360 We were originally just leadership consultants and now 511 00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:16,360 we've grown the team to, I think we're about, we're nearing about 512 00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:20,760 45 to 50 people. And one of the things that I 513 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:25,360 have had to learn how to do is to, I was always an early riser, 514 00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:27,520 but I'm an even earlier riser now. 515 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:34,240 And it's because the world is, is noisy and slack is noisy and 516 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,560 teams are noisy and there's a lot of pressure. 517 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,920 And as a leader, you need time to just kind of reflect and, 518 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,800 and, and get, get quiet for a minute so that you can be 519 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,280 effective. And so I really try to hold 520 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,720 space early in the morning to allow me to let my brain kind of 521 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,480 wander, like just kind of think about the day or think about the 522 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,960 what, you know, core strategic initiatives that we have going 523 00:27:57,960 --> 00:27:59,960 on at the company. We're writing a second book. 524 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,240 There's there's lots of things that were initiatives that we're 525 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,480 working on. And so I just try to protect 526 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,360 that space a little bit so that I can be really effective for 527 00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:12,040 the team and also available to the team because we have people 528 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,000 in Europe. And so they're up early, right? 529 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,760 Like 4 AM, 5:00 AM chats lit up all, all hours of the day and 530 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,320 night. And you need to be able to give 531 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,640 your brain those little spaces to kind of quiet down for a 532 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,360 minute so that you can be more effective. 533 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,680 Yeah, that reminds me of the parable of the cup. 534 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,120 I don't know if you've heard of that. 535 00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:34,160 It's like a story from Zen, but basically, like the quick 536 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,320 version of it is like this guy who wants to become enlightened 537 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,360 goes to visit a Zen master. And it's like asking, you know, 538 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,360 basically like, sensei, teach me, give me your wisdom. 539 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,640 And the Zen master comes and, like, start serving tea and then 540 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,360 just keeps pouring the tea until it overflows, Right. 541 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,360 And the guy who goes to the master's, like, what are you 542 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:53,240 doing? You know, the cup is 543 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,680 overflowing, and then the master finally stops accessible. 544 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,960 This is, you know, this cup represents your mind and you 545 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,960 need to 1st empty your cup before you are ready to receive 546 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,480 more. And I think as leaders, 547 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,680 especially with global teams, like you have to be connected a 548 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,560 lot, all the time dealing with time zones, but also just as 549 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,840 creatives, we're always reading things, looking for inspiration, 550 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:14,720 looking at mood boards, whatever that is. 551 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,880 And sometimes you also need like, quiet to be within our own 552 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,040 thoughts, you know, before we can handle all of these inputs 553 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,560 and decisions. Well, we had a we have we have 554 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,760 this thing at motto called Motto and friends where we bring. 555 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,080 I'll just touch on this really quickly, but we have people that 556 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,520 come in from all around the world and for 45 minutes they 557 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,560 just tell us like their greatest stories or, or lessons and, and 558 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,080 teachings. And we had a team come on that 559 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,120 are neuroscientists and they taught our team about how even 560 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:48,000 just a few years ago you were interrupted maybe every 3 to 4 561 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,240 minutes. Now you're interrupted every 11 562 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:51,800 seconds. And I think it's probably even 563 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,880 less than that. So when you said I need to turn 564 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,680 off my Slack notifications, it's because you're being pinged all 565 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,320 day long and you have to have time where you step away from 566 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,680 that for a minute to just try to say like, what am I trying to 567 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,720 accomplish today? Because those things are really 568 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,920 distracting. And so as a leader, I think you 569 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:15,360 have to find the balance between being always on which you are as 570 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:19,760 a leader, especially if you're ACEO like me, you don't probably 571 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,360 sleep a lot and you're on a quite a bit and you have a lot 572 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,000 of demands and pressures. And so you're you, you kind of 573 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,840 have to have time to read and learn so that you can be on the 574 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,400 cutting edge of what you're doing. 575 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,920 Like I'm an avid and a voracious reader. 576 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:38,200 I read, I watch courses, I'm constantly learning and 577 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,360 studying. And it's because I protect that 578 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,560 time so that I can know what's happening in the culture and I 579 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,360 can be really a strong leader to my team so that they're not 580 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,240 saying things and using slang that I don't know anything 581 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,400 about. I got to be, I got to be into 582 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,240 what is going on around me. So it's important to protect 583 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,280 that time. So yeah, on on that topic of 584 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,400 what you're reading about, what you're connecting to, like where 585 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,560 do you go for inspiration and what are some of the ways you 586 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,880 stay up to date and innovative? I watch a lot of courses, like 587 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:09,760 master class is a really good one. 588 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,920 I read a lot of books. I study a lot about philosophy, 589 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,960 science, design, leadership. I read a lot of leadership 590 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,760 books. I'm really obsessed with like 591 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,680 patterns and contradictions and what's happening at the edge of 592 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,440 culture. And I just try to. 593 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,120 And we also have a learning development program at Motto. 594 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:30,880 And so everything that our team watches or is learning about, I 595 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,760 watch too, just because I want to be up, up to speed on what 596 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,720 they're, what they're learning about, what they're into, and 597 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,120 also AI advancement. So that's a really big one 598 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,960 recently is like very into AI at the moment and, and just really 599 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:48,080 paying attention to what is on the radar of everyone and, and 600 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,840 particularly that the culture podcasts, of course, and you 601 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,000 know, good biking, like get out on a bike, throw on a podcast 602 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,640 and this podcast and. Totally. 603 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:03,240 And and and and learn. That's a great company culture 604 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,920 for sure. Yes, and it's a huge culture 605 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,560 bonus because you will always find a reason not to do that 606 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,280 work. You will always find a reason 607 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,960 not you'll say I'm too busy or I can't do that. 608 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,080 And so we actually like really embedded into the very fabric of 609 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:22,000 what we do at Motto because we just believe that if we invest 610 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,920 in our people and we invest in the learning of our people, that 611 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,240 we're going to have more innovative thinkers and we're 612 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,680 going to have happier teammates because they're going to be able 613 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,240 to bring that thinking and that leading do everything that they 614 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:33,640 do. So we invest in leadership, 615 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,680 coaching and development, and we just really push for that 616 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,480 development. So that person really feels like 617 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,640 they're on a journey of growth. Yeah. 618 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,680 And especially you said that the company grew and now you have 619 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:50,440 teams in other locations. That's also a good way of making 620 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,280 sure that everyone feels like they belong to the same company. 621 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,000 That's great. Yeah, great weekly habits for 622 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,440 sure. So as we start to wrap up, I 623 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,920 wanted to hear from you a recommendation. 624 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,880 And it could be like a book, a show, a movie, or any type of of 625 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:09,960 media that you have listened or have engaged with lately that 626 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:11,720 you want to share with our listeners. 627 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,920 Jiro dreams of sushi. Have you all watched that? 628 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,800 Yeah, I got to eat at the restaurant like 10 years ago 629 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,400 with The Sun's restaurant. Not because by that point, Jiro 630 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,040 himself had stopped. It was no longer like a real 631 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:27,760 restaurant. It was like a private club, like 632 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:29,720 you had to somebody to get in there. 633 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,120 Whereas Like the Sun had built an identical restaurant to his 634 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:34,640 father. Wow, interesting. 635 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:40,440 I thought that was a fascinating documentary in terms of, I think 636 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,640 more so about the pursuit of perfection. 637 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:50,000 So the storyline is that a sushi maker is on this quest. 638 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,760 He's been making sushi for over 90 years. 639 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,840 And one of the biggest existential questions that he 640 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,720 has is like, will I ever reach perfection? 641 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,920 Have I have I folded the perfect piece of sushi? 642 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:06,440 And I think that that is such an empowering motivation for people 643 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:12,120 like me who are, who are kind of obsessed with the details and 644 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,679 are a bit of a perfectionist, you know, and being able to sort 645 00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:19,080 of say like, how do I master what my craft is? 646 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,080 And can I master multiple domains of mastery? 647 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,880 And I think design is just about not always inventing something 648 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,800 new, but rather it's often doing those things better and better 649 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,480 and better. And it's about you and your 650 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,639 craft and your journey of who you're trying to become that you 651 00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:40,080 have to sort of prove that to. And I love the film because it's 652 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,679 really a film about what it means to devote your life to 653 00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:46,520 your craft. And so much of us, our 654 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,760 identities are tied up in the things that we do and the things 655 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,960 that we love and, and, and, and work. 656 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,040 And so when we continue to define that and, and refine that 657 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,000 over time is an incredible thing to do. 658 00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,680 I highly recommend it. Amazing. 659 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,960 Yeah, and it's available on streaming, so folks should 660 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:06,280 definitely check that out. As we wrap up our time together, 661 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,560 Sunny, we'd like to ask our guests to give a call to action 662 00:35:09,720 --> 00:35:11,720 for our listeners and our viewers, for folks who are 663 00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:14,920 watching this on YouTube. So just yeah, let people know 664 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,320 where they can find you and your work online. 665 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,440 We'll post this in the show notes as well, but sometimes 666 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,240 it's helpful for people to hear it as well. 667 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,400 Well, you can find motto@wearemotto.com on 668 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,000 Instagram and LinkedIn at We are Motto. 669 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,800 You can also find a little bit about me at sunnybunnell.com. 670 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,280 And you can also learn about Vision Camp at Vision Camp dot 671 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,080 IO. And if you want to learn a 672 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,680 little bit about the book, it's available wherever books are 673 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,440 sold, but highly available on like Amazon or Barnes and Noble. 674 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:45,240 So any of those channels and for anybody listening, love to 675 00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:47,920 connect with you and reach out, love starting new conversations 676 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,160 and making friends. So feel free to reach out and 677 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:51,680 say hello. Awesome. 678 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:53,320 Thank you so much, Sunny Bunnell. 679 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,840 Yeah, we really appreciated learning about your story, 680 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,560 hearing about Motto Vision Camp, the book as well. 681 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,280 I look forward to diving into some of that stuff myself, 682 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,160 learning more about all of the stuff that you do. 683 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:04,400 So thank. You thank you. 684 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,520 It was a lot of fun. I appreciate you guys having me. 685 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,120 Awesome, and thank you for watching or listening to this 686 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,360 episode of the AIG Design Podcast. 687 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,640 You know what to do in terms of finding us at AIG Design. 688 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,600 Subscribe, like, send us a message, whatever you'd like to 689 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,360 help support the show. And thank you to AIGA members 690 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:21,680 for making this possible as well. 691 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,480 We are a nonprofit membership organization. 692 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,840 And so we like to, you know, thank you. 693 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,760 And also, yeah, allow us to tell these stories and make them 694 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:33,840 available to the entire design community. 695 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,600 So I'm Li Shan Huang on behalf of Julia Donatello. 696 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:38,600 We will see you next time. Thanks. 697 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:38,960 Bye.