1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,600 Hello, and welcome to AIG a fireside chat. 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,600 Thank you for joining us. Please connect with us, and 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:10,300 share your thoughts hashtags for this Fireside or aiga design and 4 00:00:10,300 --> 00:00:13,100 future of design. It is my pleasure to welcome Ben 5 00:00:13,100 --> 00:00:17,400 ishak Johnson, aiga is executive director and today's guest Britt 6 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:23,600 Griffith chair of aiga s 2022, design conference, any Rick? 7 00:00:23,700 --> 00:00:26,300 Thank you. Amy, and welcome all to our 8 00:00:26,300 --> 00:00:29,500 fireside chat today. Today is an extremely special 9 00:00:29,500 --> 00:00:32,700 one And I apologize. Now, we've got clouds covering 10 00:00:32,700 --> 00:00:36,000 lights. Moving all around in DC, but I 11 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,900 want to start is really a Point of Departure, but you'll soon 12 00:00:40,900 --> 00:00:45,800 learn that Rick is so much more Rick is by definition. 13 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:50,300 A graphic designer and master Letterpress printer, but Rick is 14 00:00:50,300 --> 00:00:53,600 so much more. He's an advocate for design, 15 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,900 he's really an Explorer in many ways. 16 00:00:57,100 --> 00:01:00,900 His work is an area that exploration of History, 17 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:05,700 politics, Science, music ethics, and it's focused on our world 18 00:01:05,700 --> 00:01:09,200 today and the future, and it's relevant, he's known as a 19 00:01:09,208 --> 00:01:13,800 passionate advocate, for design, we've tapped him to serve as our 20 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,900 chair of this year's design conference and Rick's journey is 21 00:01:17,900 --> 00:01:21,700 an incredible one. He was born and raised in South 22 00:01:21,700 --> 00:01:24,500 East London and then immigrated to the u.s. in the late 80s 23 00:01:24,500 --> 00:01:28,800 where he hung out in my hometown of Washington d.c. and it's the 24 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:33,700 record store is if we date ourselves, the music places that 25 00:01:33,700 --> 00:01:36,000 turned him into graphic design, that turned them on the graphic 26 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:40,400 design and it was a short career on Madison Avenue, that really 27 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,200 served once again, as a departure point as a launching 28 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:49,000 pad to fund his first practice and it's his love of design and 29 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:53,000 his partner that sustained him in his design, practice matter, 30 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,900 over the last two decades in Denver, and it's grown to be 31 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,500 Really Beyond definition design consultant, The Print Shop, 32 00:02:01,500 --> 00:02:05,900 workshop, and Retail bookstore and in the Denver area I could 33 00:02:05,900 --> 00:02:09,900 go on and on about Rick's service to community and focus 34 00:02:09,900 --> 00:02:14,100 on Art and Design and the the power that he's taken from his 35 00:02:14,100 --> 00:02:16,400 journey. So you think about him traveling 36 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,600 all over the world. It's not a surprise today that 37 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,700 he's not joining us from Denver but he's joining us from 38 00:02:22,700 --> 00:02:25,300 Switzerland today. So, I like to welcome to the 39 00:02:25,300 --> 00:02:28,800 Fireside. My dear friend, And brother Rick 40 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,400 Griffin. Welcome, thank you. 41 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,200 Nice to be here. Just keep my hands warm, right, 42 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,000 get ready to fire. You can keep it a little 43 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,600 differently. You're never in the same place 44 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:46,000 twice or the place that I expect you and it's going to open up 45 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,200 that a when I when I really think about the way that you've 46 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:53,100 navigated the world, you're always somewhere different, but 47 00:02:53,100 --> 00:02:58,000 it always feels right. Well, I do, go to the same place 48 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,200 over and over and over again. It's kind of like a loop and 49 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:10,900 this is my fifth time to nozzles Switzerland and and I definitely 50 00:03:10,900 --> 00:03:13,900 come back. But what I think you're getting 51 00:03:13,900 --> 00:03:19,900 a is that like I do a lot of travel and the the idea of 52 00:03:19,900 --> 00:03:24,800 traveling is also part of that sense of community, like, I 53 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,600 really enjoy the Letterpress Community, I really enjoy the 54 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:30,400 community of intellects that I'm a part of. 55 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:35,700 And so I traveled to participate in the lives of my friends and 56 00:03:35,700 --> 00:03:39,500 also, I know that it's a safe place to get some work done if I 57 00:03:39,500 --> 00:03:42,000 need to. So behind me, there are several 58 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,300 19th century printing, presses. I mean, you know, there's 59 00:03:46,300 --> 00:03:50,100 there's about seven printing presses in this particular 60 00:03:50,100 --> 00:03:55,200 compounds that that my friend has, and so I can get Then if I 61 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,400 have to. But right now, this is this is 62 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:01,100 the work of the day. I want to give a quick shout-out 63 00:04:01,100 --> 00:04:06,600 to my friend, Megan who just had a baby, who is just enjoying the 64 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,200 new motherhood. So congratulations. 65 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:14,600 Megan the. Yeah, that's how I travel a lot. 66 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,500 But I'm also like, I'm proud member of a lot of communities 67 00:04:18,500 --> 00:04:21,100 science. So that is exciting to me to be 68 00:04:21,700 --> 00:04:24,600 interloping. Let's talk. 69 00:04:24,700 --> 00:04:26,600 A bit about community and Denver. 70 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:32,100 So it's a McCain's, your chosen Community, 20 years ago, you 71 00:04:32,100 --> 00:04:34,500 know, starting matter. So so talk a bit about matter 72 00:04:34,500 --> 00:04:39,100 because you are the only Design Studio manufacturing and 73 00:04:39,100 --> 00:04:42,600 revolutionary bookstore in. Denver is a great way to 74 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:48,300 describe it. Yeah, when the studio was 75 00:04:48,300 --> 00:04:52,600 founded in 1999, I had already been in Denver for a few years. 76 00:04:52,600 --> 00:05:00,000 I had already gotten married and I think we just began having 77 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,200 kids. So our first, our first child 78 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:10,200 was born and The idea behind matter, came with my original 79 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:14,000 business partner, Jason Otero, it came from the idea of just 80 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:20,700 stuff, relevance, you know, and the imperative to to be engaged. 81 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,400 And I had already bought my first printing press at that 82 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:30,000 point in time. And so I was moving through the 83 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:35,100 paces of Basically like learning how to run my first letter. 84 00:05:35,100 --> 00:05:38,700 Press learning how to run my first, my first printing press 85 00:05:39,100 --> 00:05:42,900 and and it seemed like a really good idea. 86 00:05:42,900 --> 00:05:49,100 It was all born from the work of Muriel Cooper who was in charge 87 00:05:49,100 --> 00:05:53,300 of the visual language Lab at MIT who I had read about years 88 00:05:53,300 --> 00:05:56,800 previous and was so inspired by her that. 89 00:05:56,900 --> 00:06:00,700 I was like if graphic designers need to be close to the means of 90 00:06:00,700 --> 00:06:02,800 production in order. To understand typography. 91 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,800 Well then let's count me amongst that and I'm going to get a 92 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,400 printing press, and I'm going to try and unpack. 93 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,200 Why that was so true and then it's taken me. 20, something 94 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,600 years. So far too, kind of continue to 95 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:22,000 unpack that idea. But along the way we've made our 96 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:28,200 own stationery products, we have made prints and help have got 97 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:32,100 prints in for all sorts of purposes, including The purpose 98 00:06:32,100 --> 00:06:37,400 of protesting Community. But then we also decided that 99 00:06:37,900 --> 00:06:42,400 with my, with my current had a chance and we decided to create 100 00:06:42,900 --> 00:06:47,800 a community focused, social justice book store that has 101 00:06:47,900 --> 00:06:51,500 design in its and design at the center of it as well. 102 00:06:51,500 --> 00:06:54,500 And so it's a design bookstore but it's also social justice 103 00:06:54,500 --> 00:07:02,600 bookstore with books by and for and about Out, queer lives. 104 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:07,600 Black lives, divisionist lives and females Etc. 105 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,500 And so, that's that's our basis of action in Denver's. 106 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:17,200 The storefront is also a store. Is a bookstore. 107 00:07:17,300 --> 00:07:21,000 Yeah, what was that? First reaction, we you involve 108 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,200 this concept, and you kind of rolled it out into into this 109 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:31,000 community space. Well, it is the I supposed to be 110 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,600 action was pretty soft because no one knew what I was talking 111 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,300 about. It was like, I thought sweater 112 00:07:37,300 --> 00:07:40,100 thinks you're introduced. It is like what do you do it 113 00:07:40,100 --> 00:07:42,700 again? Yeah a lot of people were like 114 00:07:42,700 --> 00:07:45,900 what are you doing again? And and they didn't have a real 115 00:07:45,900 --> 00:07:49,900 reason to come by on till we through our famous annual 116 00:07:49,900 --> 00:07:54,700 parties, where we would invite the entire community over to 117 00:07:55,100 --> 00:07:58,100 look at The prints from that year and so on so forth. 118 00:07:58,100 --> 00:08:00,300 And that's how we actually got reputation. 119 00:08:00,300 --> 00:08:03,500 What's from throwing one party a year, the second Friday of 120 00:08:03,500 --> 00:08:07,200 December. And, and that's how people got 121 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,500 to know us, and that was pretty good. 122 00:08:09,500 --> 00:08:13,600 It was really good times. We are on the fourth story of a 123 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:19,800 nightclub in downtown Denver and the elevator that we had used to 124 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,700 carry carriages, so it was huge was a huge alligator. 125 00:08:23,700 --> 00:08:26,500 People would, you know, It's weird. 126 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:32,799 So you telling me that matter was the after-party matter was 127 00:08:32,799 --> 00:08:33,900 the party. I'm you have to party. 128 00:08:33,900 --> 00:08:35,200 Yeah. At one point. 129 00:08:36,900 --> 00:08:40,299 So it you know when we think about kind of the value of 130 00:08:40,299 --> 00:08:43,400 community and art together, what are some of the lessons that 131 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,000 you've learned in your time at Denver? 132 00:08:46,500 --> 00:08:49,800 You know, you start off with a song about me, but then things 133 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,300 evolve and grow, right? So what are some of the the 134 00:08:53,300 --> 00:09:02,400 value that you've learned? I think, for me, the idea of of 135 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:07,900 learning from my community has shown up like a good example, 136 00:09:07,900 --> 00:09:11,300 would be if you're going to run a bookstore, right? 137 00:09:11,300 --> 00:09:15,100 You should probably think about hiring people who know how to 138 00:09:15,100 --> 00:09:17,400 work a book store. Instead of just having your 139 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,500 designers, kinda gotta go downstairs and try and sell 140 00:09:21,500 --> 00:09:26,800 books. So, so we definitely got a real 141 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,900 Shenanigans what it means to run a bookstore and how it meets the 142 00:09:30,900 --> 00:09:35,900 Bold space and have Community. That's the biggest lesson I 143 00:09:35,900 --> 00:09:42,200 think was that you really, you really don't have to run a 144 00:09:42,208 --> 00:09:44,900 conventional design studio, right? 145 00:09:44,900 --> 00:09:47,800 And this lesson, this lesson doesn't begin with me at all. 146 00:09:47,900 --> 00:09:51,900 Begins with the very first examination of Design Studios of 147 00:09:51,900 --> 00:09:56,000 by that I came up with, I was looking at, but Miller and Ellen 148 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,800 logs, and they're designed to Studio Design, lighting 149 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,100 research, and I was really compelled by what they were 150 00:10:02,108 --> 00:10:06,000 doing, is Alters, as authors of books, and makers of products 151 00:10:06,300 --> 00:10:09,100 and I'm continuously, so to fix it. 152 00:10:09,300 --> 00:10:21,000 B, fi the work that they're the guys in Queens, Carlson Carlson 153 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,100 Bilko. Who are have an ice cream shop 154 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,900 inside of their Design Studio? That's open on weekends. 155 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:32,200 Well, I think that they also understand community at or super 156 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:37,700 high level and that in Ridgewood Queens, if you're on their 157 00:10:37,700 --> 00:10:41,700 block, if you're a kid. On their blog, you know, them as 158 00:10:41,700 --> 00:10:44,700 the ice cream people, you don't necessarily know them as a 159 00:10:44,700 --> 00:10:47,800 design studio. And so I think when there's a 160 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:53,200 problem to be solved, take a lead that of connection when 161 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:57,300 there's Community to be had designers, don't always know 162 00:10:57,300 --> 00:10:59,900 what to do. But they are creative enough to 163 00:10:59,900 --> 00:11:02,300 attempt new and interesting ideas. 164 00:11:02,300 --> 00:11:06,100 And I think that that's the big lesson is that design can teach 165 00:11:06,100 --> 00:11:11,700 us to hold space and Design. Teach does to use our creativity 166 00:11:11,700 --> 00:11:17,600 for more than just ourselves and for our greater public good. 167 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,400 And I'm very excited to continue to do that and encourage other 168 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:25,000 people to keep on doing it. Well, you know, it's we talked 169 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,400 about using design using our experience for public good. 170 00:11:28,500 --> 00:11:31,000 It's a natural segue into our next conversation. 171 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:35,400 And I remember when we started talking and sharing our 172 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,100 viewpoints on this ideas, we were a handful of people who 173 00:11:38,100 --> 00:11:41,200 thought this was possible. Remember that conversation about 174 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,400 what if we could work and expand Wiki. 175 00:11:44,900 --> 00:11:49,100 And I remember being so excited in our conversations and it was 176 00:11:49,100 --> 00:11:54,100 kind of our own little private, you do network of we could make 177 00:11:54,100 --> 00:11:57,700 this happen. Now, skip ahead, 24 months, and 178 00:11:57,900 --> 00:11:59,300 Rick I'm happy to help everybody else. 179 00:11:59,300 --> 00:12:03,500 Rick has an incredible part of us bringing together our aiga 180 00:12:03,500 --> 00:12:06,600 with the Scholars Program and really allowing us to think 181 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,300 about how could we activate a community. in Dynamic ways that 182 00:12:10,300 --> 00:12:14,500 we could both teach and train and Inspire and then encourage 183 00:12:14,500 --> 00:12:17,300 others to teach and train and Inspire to build new knowledge 184 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,500 to talk a little bit about, you know, you shared with me some 185 00:12:20,500 --> 00:12:24,800 for but what got you excited about the power of Wiki and 186 00:12:25,300 --> 00:12:33,500 designers I immediately got excited because I took the wiki 187 00:12:33,500 --> 00:12:39,300 training course during covid and I experienced a couple of 188 00:12:39,300 --> 00:12:41,100 librarians which you're going to do. 189 00:12:41,100 --> 00:12:42,900 If you take a Wiki training course you're going to 190 00:12:42,900 --> 00:12:46,600 experience library and say are the backbone of this type of 191 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,700 work and some of the things that really came up for me. 192 00:12:52,300 --> 00:12:56,500 And this is, I mean, this is like a, how can I put it? 193 00:12:56,500 --> 00:13:00,700 It's kind of like a birth and a rebirth and a now it's a 194 00:13:00,700 --> 00:13:06,100 constant conversation about what systems are in power and how do 195 00:13:06,100 --> 00:13:09,300 we manage our own participation in these systems? 196 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,800 And it's impossible for me to see Wikipedia as anything, but 197 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,500 the world's largest resource, right? 198 00:13:17,500 --> 00:13:23,800 For online research. And, and The concept that was 199 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:29,600 given to me was why don't we attempt to dilute the sort of 200 00:13:30,100 --> 00:13:36,700 dominant authority of Wikipedia from being predominantly, you 201 00:13:36,700 --> 00:13:41,300 know, white males and how can we change that? 202 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:47,600 So that the resource is open to and relevant to other other 203 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,900 people that they can see themselves in the resource 204 00:13:50,900 --> 00:13:53,900 called Wikipedia? And also they can add an edit 205 00:13:53,900 --> 00:13:58,000 and contribute to it long term. And the only way to do that is 206 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:03,400 to take the training practice, have things to put into it, have 207 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,900 have a criticism meaning, go into it edit. 208 00:14:06,900 --> 00:14:11,500 It attempt to make something more true than it was originally 209 00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:16,000 to attempt to influence a topic or a theme or for biography 210 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,200 there. And so, my initial inspiration 211 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:24,200 was that the fact that we we as an organization, meaning I'm a 212 00:14:24,208 --> 00:14:30,100 longtime member of aiga and will that we as an institution kind 213 00:14:30,100 --> 00:14:35,700 of suffered, some of the really interesting indignities of being 214 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,600 being there at a time when the history wasn't told correctly, 215 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,200 right? That the aiga had an opportunity 216 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,000 to change that. I was like, well, if I have this 217 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,200 guy, been easier because you were fairly you and the job, 218 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:50,000 right? Right. 219 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:56,400 If I have this, I've been easy R, maybe Benny will take this 220 00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:00,200 opportunity and start to walk work with it and walk with it 221 00:15:00,300 --> 00:15:04,100 and see if we can change it and eventually we found the 222 00:15:04,100 --> 00:15:07,900 resources and and the time to do it but it was really one of 223 00:15:07,900 --> 00:15:10,800 those things. I said it's a it's a it's an 224 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:16,500 easy project for me to conceive us because the teachers Wiki edu 225 00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:20,900 were so good and they were so amazing to learn from that. 226 00:15:20,900 --> 00:15:23,500 I was like I would love to introduce other designers to 227 00:15:23,500 --> 00:15:28,000 this since then I've learned that two of my could send 228 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:33,700 designers and teachers are now doing Library studies work. 229 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:38,400 And then the cohort that we were working with several of them are 230 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,000 still in community, still talking about how to change 231 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,900 Wikipedia and how to take that into the classroom. 232 00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:49,500 So I'm pretty happy about what happened It's been amazing to 233 00:15:49,500 --> 00:15:52,100 watch and the notes that we receive the articles that have 234 00:15:52,100 --> 00:15:55,000 come up of those people are inspired by the work that we're 235 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,800 doing and our training other training and finding other 236 00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:59,300 spaces. I know we're going to have 237 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,300 people coming together in Seattle as well. 238 00:16:01,300 --> 00:16:05,200 Working on expanding biographies as well and kind of the work 239 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:10,500 keeps on keeps on working. So you know, we ask this one 240 00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:13,400 question and and we're putting questions together. 241 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,100 I can tell that it's kind of a perfect question. 242 00:16:16,300 --> 00:16:18,800 Between Benny and Rick. And I'm just going to look down 243 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,300 and say it. The question is why design 244 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,900 followed by why not design? And I could tell that that was 245 00:16:26,900 --> 00:16:30,500 kind of mediated in our, in our conversations with a meteorite 246 00:16:30,500 --> 00:16:34,300 because I I can hear, I can hear your voice saying, why? 247 00:16:34,300 --> 00:16:36,200 And I can hear me saying, why not? 248 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,000 And vice versa and I was like, there's nothing else to the 249 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:40,600 question. Just as a prop for us to 250 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:45,400 discussion when we think about our world today, You know, why 251 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,000 why design? Why is the design powerful? 252 00:16:48,300 --> 00:16:52,000 And the other counter question, why shouldn't it be included? 253 00:16:54,100 --> 00:16:57,000 I think about and I want to extend just beyond just the 254 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:07,000 world today, but we think about creating futures Why not design 255 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:12,099 is pretty easy case. And the why not? 256 00:17:12,099 --> 00:17:17,599 There's a sign is because it has participated in so many harmful 257 00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:22,599 systems and has participated in so many ways to create the world 258 00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:26,800 that we have now something which some people will call in this 259 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,400 heritance. That some people some people was 260 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:35,100 still alive for its Creation in the sense of Newer systems that 261 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,500 marginalized people. And that's the fact that 262 00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:42,600 people's lives negatively and design is an action, you know? 263 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,900 Oh, you know what, but this is cool because I wrote something 264 00:17:46,900 --> 00:17:50,100 on this recently, It's right here. 265 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,000 All right, nice, I'll read out release from here. 266 00:17:53,300 --> 00:17:57,400 I think this might answer to the question or maybe create more 267 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:02,000 questions. Design might be the Human Action 268 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,600 that participates in the creation of most things, 269 00:18:04,900 --> 00:18:10,800 including products, curricula experiences, teams Frameworks, 270 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:15,500 policies, and systems, significant at a global scale 271 00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:18,900 protecting injuring or disrupting all life on this 272 00:18:18,900 --> 00:18:23,700 planet. It these actions are defined by 273 00:18:23,700 --> 00:18:27,700 the presence or absence of concerns and awareness of the 274 00:18:27,700 --> 00:18:30,800 various systems. They encounter including systems 275 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:35,600 of capital and finance labor and human rights material, 276 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:42,200 resources, governments, and our ever-changing ecology these 277 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,900 systems and their various intersections should be an area 278 00:18:45,900 --> 00:18:50,000 of vital concern for designers. And anyone else Else thinking 279 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:54,600 about how to proceed. This is an introduction to 280 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:58,100 having concerns for individuals, negotiating with systems that 281 00:18:58,100 --> 00:19:01,700 operate with assumptions about their impact and biased, in 282 00:19:01,700 --> 00:19:05,000 their action. And and this document is a 283 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:09,100 document that I just created like just before, I'd jumped on 284 00:19:09,100 --> 00:19:14,800 the road for this trip but it's an expansion, it's an extension 285 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,600 of this ethics document that I've been working on for a few 286 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,200 years and so This will come to Seattle. 287 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,500 I'll bring a stack of the now. We're going to add anything, you 288 00:19:23,500 --> 00:19:26,400 bring a bringing its I need one. And yes. 289 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:34,200 Yeah the why not design is because it is so powerful and it 290 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:39,500 is being deployed without the greatest amount of care and the 291 00:19:39,500 --> 00:19:42,900 greatest amount of concern and connections, specifically, the 292 00:19:42,900 --> 00:19:44,600 idea of connection and collaboration. 293 00:19:45,500 --> 00:19:49,600 And then why does ein is because design also has the tools inside 294 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:53,000 of itself to repair that. And when I say repair that, I 295 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,200 mean, repair the process by which things are made. 296 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,300 So that the more inclusive repair the mechanisms by, which 297 00:19:58,300 --> 00:20:01,100 things are made me write that they are looking at resource 298 00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:03,600 management at the center of most things. 299 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,900 Instead of just that that sort of it's available and abundant 300 00:20:06,900 --> 00:20:09,300 therefore we use it. And therefore we really look at 301 00:20:09,300 --> 00:20:12,300 it, you know, things like that ideas like that. 302 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:22,700 And so, so it seems to me like designs can resolve the 303 00:20:22,700 --> 00:20:28,200 challenges if it is deployed in a honest. 304 00:20:29,500 --> 00:20:32,600 Collaborative and conscientious manner. 305 00:20:33,300 --> 00:20:39,000 But if it is simply a growth mechanism, shut it down, shut it 306 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,300 down, burn it down, I'm done. If it's only a mechanism for 307 00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:44,000 growth, shut it down and burn it down. 308 00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:49,600 So, in, in our discussion, you mention of struck with the 309 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,900 notion of design and a reparative nature. 310 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,400 A restorative - and a replenishing Napier, how did you 311 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,900 in your own life and practice? Find those moments to restore 312 00:21:02,100 --> 00:21:08,500 and replenish. I mean, the first thing that 313 00:21:08,500 --> 00:21:13,200 comes to mind is that like sometimes people ask this 314 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,100 question and like a job interview or something like? 315 00:21:15,100 --> 00:21:18,200 Hey I think you blow off steam. Yeah, it's sort of like that's 316 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,100 not that, that can't be the can't be the most interesting 317 00:21:22,100 --> 00:21:30,300 question, but when we talk about repair and restore, I always 318 00:21:30,300 --> 00:21:35,100 think that like if you've got a project, if you've got an idea 319 00:21:35,100 --> 00:21:42,000 that's Worthy of doing that in the first place is net worthy of 320 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,100 also looking at the history of that idea and to see whether or 321 00:21:45,100 --> 00:21:50,500 not there is some action that restores power to the people 322 00:21:50,500 --> 00:21:55,300 team were marginalized. Isn't there some opportunity to 323 00:21:55,300 --> 00:21:58,500 repair damage? That things that have been done 324 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,600 previously? Like can we behave in a way? 325 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,900 That is both restorative and reparative as well as Something 326 00:22:05,900 --> 00:22:10,900 that creates, right? Because like I said, growth you 327 00:22:10,900 --> 00:22:13,100 could. I mean, you can count me out of 328 00:22:13,100 --> 00:22:16,300 growth. But what you can Count Me In Too 329 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:23,000 is repair and and you can Count Me In to you and action that 330 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:28,300 acknowledges people at all levels, instead of just 331 00:22:28,300 --> 00:22:30,400 acknowledges people with capital. 332 00:22:30,500 --> 00:22:37,900 And I think that like, what I do Is I I try and think of how to 333 00:22:37,900 --> 00:22:41,200 behave and how to have my family behaved in my, my community 334 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:45,300 behave in ways that are collaborative and helpful 335 00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:49,700 towards each other and so so, you know, it's a whole life, 336 00:22:49,700 --> 00:22:54,500 it's a whole thing. But I think I think that's what 337 00:22:54,500 --> 00:22:56,800 we train people in our community to do. 338 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,100 And when I say that, I mean like the people who are in our store, 339 00:23:00,100 --> 00:23:02,900 you know, like we have booksellers, we have Have 340 00:23:02,900 --> 00:23:06,800 designers, we have our family, we have an impact on the planet. 341 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,200 We have a, you know, we have things that we buy and sell and 342 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:13,000 do and we're really just looking at how do we do it in a way? 343 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,500 That's really respectful of the places that we are. 344 00:23:17,500 --> 00:23:21,900 The people that lives at. It doesn't prioritize Capital. 345 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,600 So you spoke a little bit about your Loop that sheriff, our 346 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,200 folks, what is, what is your Loop? 347 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,100 So if you start off in Denver, what's next, what's the What's 348 00:23:33,100 --> 00:23:42,500 the Rick Journeys does? And you know, how to enter is a 349 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,700 location of the Batcave? I'm not asking for the secret 350 00:23:44,700 --> 00:23:49,200 location of the Batcave. Just, let's just say that. 351 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:54,300 Like, I just got done with a meeting in the lawn, with 352 00:23:54,300 --> 00:23:56,300 Letterpress printing. These, the metal press workers 353 00:23:56,300 --> 00:24:00,900 group and I'm honored to be a part invited to that, it's where 354 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,600 Letterpress printers from around the world. 355 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:07,300 Get together and share and talk about printing and talking about 356 00:24:07,700 --> 00:24:11,300 their own situations and their various geographies have a good 357 00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:19,200 friend, Marcos who's from Sao Paulo who came to Milan and the 358 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,000 set together. We did some collage together. 359 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,000 We worked, worked some things out and shared, we talked. 360 00:24:26,300 --> 00:24:28,500 And we talked about politics and we talked about other things 361 00:24:28,500 --> 00:24:32,000 too, but you know, to be in community with people, and to be 362 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,400 with people standing, We sometimes to meet their wives 363 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,200 and children. It's really just beautiful. 364 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:42,000 The destination before there was Portugal. 365 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,500 There's the small community of people in Portugal and that I 366 00:24:44,500 --> 00:24:52,800 care about deeply and I'm a, I'm repairing with my partner, a 367 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,300 pile of rocks to be the place that we will eventually die. 368 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,100 And that's a really interesting project to do a construction 369 00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:02,600 project in the country, don't live in. 370 00:25:02,700 --> 00:25:05,500 In a language, you don't speak. That's like super challenging 371 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:11,100 but you've got that challenging us and then you know, various 372 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,500 workshops and things like that around Europe, because there are 373 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,800 there are places out here that love to have inventive and 374 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,500 creative. Let's grenades to come the 375 00:25:21,500 --> 00:25:24,700 workshops. And so I'll spend a couple of 376 00:25:24,700 --> 00:25:29,600 months on the road every fall. And then in the spring of next 377 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,900 year, I actually am going to be stationary. 378 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:37,100 I'm going to be Lie. Still in party till Tennessee. 379 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:44,100 I was, I was awarded the Austin. He covers chair positions for 380 00:25:44,100 --> 00:25:48,500 the spring semester of 2823 and so I'll be teaching design 381 00:25:48,500 --> 00:25:50,800 history at Austin, Peay State University. 382 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:55,300 And in Clarksville Tennessee, all makes things semester and so 383 00:25:55,300 --> 00:25:57,000 it just changes from year to year. 384 00:25:57,900 --> 00:26:01,600 The loop is at, I love to come to Europe from back because 385 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:06,200 we're hoping that That we can establish like our final resting 386 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,700 place if you will in Europe. I'm a British expatriates comes 387 00:26:10,700 --> 00:26:14,200 to America and since brexit happens, I have to repatriate 388 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,600 myself to the continent in some way. 389 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,400 And so, you know, that's my biggest challenge right now is 390 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,900 to find options for my family and for myself to repatriate to 391 00:26:22,908 --> 00:26:24,900 Europe weapon when I'm ready to die. 392 00:26:24,900 --> 00:26:28,500 Because right now. America won't let me die with 393 00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:32,600 anything. It's just terrible, it'll suck 394 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:33,400 up. The money out of me. 395 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,300 Pusher. Well, you'll have to keep me 396 00:26:36,300 --> 00:26:39,200 posted on what happens in Portugal, but count me in on 397 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,200 visiting you next spring when you're still? 398 00:26:41,900 --> 00:26:45,100 Yeah, absolutely, absolutely count me and I'm ready to roll. 399 00:26:45,900 --> 00:26:48,700 So so we're good. We're going to mix it up a 400 00:26:48,708 --> 00:26:53,300 little bit here and it's up, you know, we're going to have our 401 00:26:53,300 --> 00:26:57,800 very first, hyper visual fireside chat. 402 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,500 So yes. So we're going to have a few 403 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,700 rapid fire questions. Questions for you, my friend, I 404 00:27:03,700 --> 00:27:05,000 think you might be ready for another. 405 00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:07,700 Okay, let's go. Thank you. 406 00:27:07,700 --> 00:27:10,700 Might be ready for it. So they're going to seem simple 407 00:27:10,700 --> 00:27:13,100 and surface but nothing with us is ever simple. 408 00:27:13,100 --> 00:27:16,800 So, we'll have fun with that. So, my first question for you 409 00:27:18,700 --> 00:27:26,900 favorite visual artist Okay, so it's a super big problem space 410 00:27:26,900 --> 00:27:33,900 because I've had this very long relationship with Casimir 411 00:27:33,900 --> 00:27:41,000 malevich and and all of these tremendous artists that comes 412 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,700 from the Russian avant-garde which is roughly the turn of the 413 00:27:43,700 --> 00:27:48,000 century turn of the last century into the into the 30s. 414 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,100 So I have a tremendous relationship with my A bitch. 415 00:27:51,100 --> 00:27:53,500 And the reason why I have a tremendous relationship with 416 00:27:53,500 --> 00:28:01,000 malevich is because malevich kind of captures a beautiful 417 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,900 piece of what is possible by talking about the non-objective 418 00:28:04,900 --> 00:28:12,700 world and possible infusion of every feeling, right? 419 00:28:12,700 --> 00:28:17,000 Every possible, human feeling into a piece of geometry because 420 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,800 a piece of geometry is a very human element, right? 421 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:24,100 To be discovered. Sound support but malevich and 422 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,700 his progeny. Like all the people that came 423 00:28:27,700 --> 00:28:31,200 from Russia that time. I still have tremendous things 424 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,900 to learn from them. And my work is deeply influenced 425 00:28:34,900 --> 00:28:38,200 by the kinds of questions that they were asking at the time 426 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,700 that communism was coming into play. 427 00:28:40,700 --> 00:28:44,000 So really a lot of questions about class struggle, a lot of 428 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:48,900 questions about the proletariat and I really enjoy the allegory, 429 00:28:48,900 --> 00:28:53,500 like the idea that I'm working. In and enjoying a conversation 430 00:28:53,500 --> 00:28:56,600 about class, struggle from another continent in another 431 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,900 country. But I'm also embedded in the 432 00:28:58,900 --> 00:29:01,400 conversation about class struggle, where I live and work 433 00:29:02,900 --> 00:29:06,400 awesome. So next question is favorite 434 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:15,400 design. see I told you these are very straightforward questions 435 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:21,700 but that's sort of straightforward but hey So, 436 00:29:21,700 --> 00:29:27,800 what's fair to say is that like having your awareness change, 437 00:29:28,100 --> 00:29:32,300 right? About design is one of the most 438 00:29:32,300 --> 00:29:35,400 exciting things that can happen and my awareness changed 439 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:41,200 profoundly when people started talking about and this is, It's 440 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,200 just got a lot to do with Silas Monroe of poly mode and it's got 441 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,300 a lot to do with the by Park history course that that he ran 442 00:29:49,300 --> 00:29:53,600 during pandemic and the guys at Pauline odor, amazing, the 443 00:29:54,500 --> 00:29:59,000 people that they brought together The amount, the sheer 444 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,900 volume of people talented human beings that they brought 445 00:30:02,900 --> 00:30:09,500 together for that course. I mean, everything that I 446 00:30:09,500 --> 00:30:13,300 learned in that course changed my perspective. 447 00:30:13,700 --> 00:30:17,900 And most importantly, I would say that, that was the second or 448 00:30:17,900 --> 00:30:20,100 third time that I got to meet sake. 449 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,300 Hmm. And the African alphabets book 450 00:30:24,300 --> 00:30:27,500 started to take on new shape, for me, write the entire Their 451 00:30:27,500 --> 00:30:32,200 conversation about stockings work and the African alphabets 452 00:30:32,300 --> 00:30:36,500 project. I mean, really, I would just say 453 00:30:36,500 --> 00:30:40,800 this favorite design right now will tens down the the course, 454 00:30:40,900 --> 00:30:44,900 the by POC, history course of poly mode from 2020. 455 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,900 That was done. It's an inexpensive course to 456 00:30:47,900 --> 00:30:53,600 sign up for, but every lesson in that course, changed my 457 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,800 perspective and change of my appreciation for So many 458 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,800 people's work. So I'm a lifetime learner. 459 00:31:00,900 --> 00:31:03,500 I'm a lifelong learner. And so learning is always my 460 00:31:03,500 --> 00:31:05,500 favorite thing. I think that's that's it, like 461 00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:07,500 there. That's awesome. 462 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,100 And definitely shout-out to Silas who's a friend and 463 00:31:11,100 --> 00:31:15,400 contributor for aiga as well. Here we go. 464 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:25,300 Favorite book quote. I can't say it on the air, it's 465 00:31:25,300 --> 00:31:30,800 improper, but I will say this, the most important part of Allen 466 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:35,700 ginsberg's howl is not necessarily just the poem, how 467 00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:40,300 if you go to the back of the book, it's the next piece of 468 00:31:40,300 --> 00:31:45,700 writing after how and it's one of my favorite things to read 469 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:51,000 because it's it's difficult to imagine Someone saying it 470 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,800 without yelling at at the top of their lungs. 471 00:31:53,900 --> 00:31:56,300 Right? And so, I love the idea of 472 00:31:56,300 --> 00:32:01,600 reading someone's vitriol. Someone's absolutely possessed. 473 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:06,900 Bitterness, and anger, and so it would be a portion of Allen 474 00:32:06,900 --> 00:32:10,300 ginsberg's howl, okay. Which, which Every, Which every 475 00:32:10,300 --> 00:32:12,400 person should own at least one copy outs. 476 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,000 And if you don't own several, you know, let's let's try and 477 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:17,600 get that. I'm going to try to make that 478 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,300 happen but they'll tell you what a close Second is when you get 479 00:32:21,300 --> 00:32:31,600 really really close. Second is Page 8 of flat land by 480 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,000 Edwin Abbott Abbott. It's a book that's been in print 481 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,700 since 1896. And it is a really interesting 482 00:32:40,900 --> 00:32:45,200 sort of euclidean geometric Treatise but it's connected to 483 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:51,400 Victorian class structure and It's a brilliant, it's a 484 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,200 brilliant rough pieces of writing and it's been around for 485 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,800 over 100 years and it's paid to 8 is probably my favorite page 486 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:03,000 or, you know, depending on the part that you're the part that 487 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,000 you're in. But it's on the inhabitants of 488 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:09,200 flatland and it describes how people are seen as geometry. 489 00:33:09,300 --> 00:33:11,100 So it's kind of exciting City. Cool. 490 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,300 Well, before I ask the next question, I'm going to share 491 00:33:14,300 --> 00:33:19,100 this little aside because I I know you absolutely love books. 492 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,800 I know you Adore books. And I remember you said this to 493 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,200 me one time. I sent you a small, thank you 494 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,600 note and of the book and you called me up and you said how 495 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,800 bold and daring of you to send the book to the book guy? 496 00:33:29,900 --> 00:33:35,000 Well played and that stay with me so warm, because I knew I was 497 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,800 taking a risk, that you probably already had this book or had an 498 00:33:37,808 --> 00:33:41,500 opinion on this book or whatever station there, but it felt right 499 00:33:41,500 --> 00:33:45,000 to send to you at that moment. And so, but the question for us 500 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,600 is, when did you first realize that you fell in love with 501 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:53,900 books? I was raised with my own 502 00:33:53,900 --> 00:33:58,000 Encyclopedia set, it wasn't exactly the right year. 503 00:33:58,000 --> 00:33:59,700 It was like a couple years earlier. 504 00:33:59,700 --> 00:34:04,400 We weren't we weren't wealthy divide that dedication but I was 505 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,600 raised with my own Encyclopedia set I was raised with a copy of 506 00:34:08,699 --> 00:34:14,699 the Bible, the Quran and the Torah I was raised with Grey's 507 00:34:14,699 --> 00:34:16,800 Anatomy. I was raised with so many 508 00:34:16,900 --> 00:34:20,600 important books and my Pants. Just like many other black 509 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:25,100 parents would just say there's no such thing as board, go pick 510 00:34:25,100 --> 00:34:30,900 up the book, right? And they also they also insisted 511 00:34:30,900 --> 00:34:34,800 that I read the complete works of Shakespeare Chaucer Dickens 512 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:40,600 and Bronte, okay? And so that happened in my like 513 00:34:40,900 --> 00:34:43,800 early years to, I got that done before. 514 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:48,400 I was 12 years old and so everything like to me became 515 00:34:48,900 --> 00:34:51,800 Either really weird language that I didn't completely 516 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:56,100 understand like Chaucer thing for it began to make sense. 517 00:34:56,100 --> 00:34:58,900 By the time I was 12 or 13, which was Shakespeare because I 518 00:34:58,900 --> 00:35:03,300 was going to the theater or it made immediate sense, which was 519 00:35:03,300 --> 00:35:07,900 Bronte, who's, you know, writing is totally accessible for all 520 00:35:07,900 --> 00:35:12,500 ages and it's not an issue. And then my life has been, like 521 00:35:12,500 --> 00:35:17,000 a dickensian novel, right? It's full of tragedy, and it's 522 00:35:17,300 --> 00:35:21,600 misfortune And Fortune and bravery and all sorts of 523 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,800 experiences and people have come into my life and my favorite, my 524 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,200 favorite Dickens book is going to be The Life and Times of of 525 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,700 Nicholas Nickleby which, which is a really remarkable document 526 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,700 all by itself. But my life sometimes just feels 527 00:35:37,700 --> 00:35:43,500 quite dickensian, feels really connected to two story and to 528 00:35:44,100 --> 00:35:47,700 love and loss. And you know you could say that 529 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,400 Dickens I have had an interesting template probably 530 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,200 influenced by Bollywood, you know, like by Indian 531 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:58,400 storytelling like massive narratives decade-long there it 532 00:35:58,400 --> 00:35:59,700 is. You know, that's sort of thing 533 00:35:59,900 --> 00:36:02,700 and being an English person. How could he not have been 534 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,500 influenced by Indian Indian poetry? 535 00:36:06,900 --> 00:36:10,000 Right? Well the next space in one of 536 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,300 the connection points that we have is and your time in d.c. 537 00:36:13,900 --> 00:36:18,000 was all about music. So give me your favorite song. 538 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:18,700 Lyric. Work. 539 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,500 Oh my gosh my favorite song lyric. 540 00:36:23,500 --> 00:36:28,500 There's so many song lyrics so I cannot say again because it's 541 00:36:28,500 --> 00:36:30,100 tone. Absolutely filthy. 542 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:35,600 I can I say my favorite song, lyric on the air but I will say 543 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,400 it's from John Giorno and the song is called scum and sign. 544 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,000 And look at that, it's an amazing amazing song. 545 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:47,900 But but besides that the punk, the punk, anthems from the 80s, 546 00:36:48,300 --> 00:36:56,200 you know, I there's a, there's a band called marginal, man, and 547 00:36:57,900 --> 00:37:04,000 this is really interesting because modulo man's drummer Is 548 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:11,400 Kenny on away who was the son of former state state senator on 549 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,000 away. So, so because because of the 550 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:19,500 sea being what it was, sometimes like the Senators kids were like 551 00:37:19,500 --> 00:37:25,300 punks and so canning was part of the band but but what I found 552 00:37:25,300 --> 00:37:28,100 sign up about this. Lyric was it's a simple lyric. 553 00:37:28,100 --> 00:37:31,700 He goes if I say something that you don't like thinking about 554 00:37:31,700 --> 00:37:44,300 it, I might be right. if I say something, Just just, just hear 555 00:37:44,300 --> 00:37:46,600 me out, right? I just might know what I'm 556 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:51,900 talking about and it's kind of a cool lyric and at the same time, 557 00:37:52,100 --> 00:37:55,300 it's asking for people to be better listeners of each other 558 00:37:55,300 --> 00:37:57,500 but in a super Punk, Anthony sort of weight. 559 00:37:57,500 --> 00:38:01,800 So you know, but but there's a lot of good songs in d.c. punk 560 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:06,300 rock but this but it's lyric also as long as we're talking 561 00:38:06,300 --> 00:38:12,100 about music, this lyric Is is Top Notch for DC lyric. 562 00:38:12,300 --> 00:38:17,500 It's MasterCard Visa American Express, I don't know nothing 563 00:38:17,500 --> 00:38:20,200 about no credit cards because cash is the best. 564 00:38:21,700 --> 00:38:24,400 We know that from course, talking about dolla, dolla be, 565 00:38:25,500 --> 00:38:28,800 that's big talk that speak to me from some Trouble Funk and so 566 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,400 that to me, you can't talk about DC music without talking about 567 00:38:33,300 --> 00:38:37,200 punk, rock and Trouble Funk. And so to me, those do just was 568 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:38,800 my big favorite Things right there. 569 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,900 I love that instinctively started by the lyric and without 570 00:38:42,900 --> 00:38:45,200 even thinking about it. My DC. 571 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,700 This always shows. Yeah, that's great. 572 00:38:49,700 --> 00:38:53,700 I mean, how could you not love a city that has its own musical 573 00:38:53,700 --> 00:38:58,800 form, you know, the islands, d.c., you know, it wouldn't sell 574 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:03,200 you really this days so your daughter alluded to your 575 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,300 Evolution. And so I'm going to ask this 576 00:39:05,300 --> 00:39:07,200 question in that context. What? 577 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,100 Sparks your imagination Nation today. 578 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:11,500 It? What are the things you? 579 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,200 You've seen a lot. You've created a lot what? 580 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:29,100 Really Sparks your imagination today. um, it kind of Lights me 581 00:39:29,100 --> 00:39:34,000 up when I see acts of courage. It can't. 582 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,600 It doesn't get any better than that watching someone else. 583 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,200 Be courageous watching someone else. 584 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,000 Speak truth to power watching someone else fight for someone 585 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,000 else, watching watching, people do Brave things. 586 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,400 It's the highest form of encouragement. 587 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:58,200 And so I've evolved through my own grief, I've evolved through 588 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:03,900 my own experience but I also am like witnessing acts of courage. 589 00:40:04,100 --> 00:40:12,000 I had a scale that just blows my mind all the time so so it's it 590 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:17,100 doesn't just spark creativity. I mean it's Sparks like purpose, 591 00:40:17,300 --> 00:40:21,600 right? It's Martin's purpose and I 592 00:40:21,700 --> 00:40:26,500 there's nothing higher It's so true and so powerful. 593 00:40:27,100 --> 00:40:31,200 So as we wrap up, I'd love to ask you, what have been your 594 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:35,000 favorite Journeys? As of recently, you know, we 595 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,600 think about it, our life is a journey, but it's made up of 596 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:42,200 Journeys inside of Journeys. What what's one road that you've 597 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,400 taken recently? That's that continued this love 598 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,600 of creativity inspiration. What's been your favorite 599 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:54,100 Journey? I'm still negotiating where I am 600 00:40:54,100 --> 00:40:58,200 with it because it's difficult but writing. 601 00:40:58,900 --> 00:41:03,400 Hmm, I'm I'm learning how to write. 602 00:41:04,700 --> 00:41:08,100 I know it sounds really silly because sometimes you think, 603 00:41:08,100 --> 00:41:10,500 well how do you get by without writing? 604 00:41:11,300 --> 00:41:15,400 But I think lots of this get by without writing and without 605 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,800 writing something serious without some writing, something 606 00:41:18,100 --> 00:41:23,800 for other people's eyes and So right now I'm writing and I'm 607 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:28,400 learning how to write with and collaborate with with people in 608 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,500 writing. So this is my latest journey and 609 00:41:31,500 --> 00:41:36,500 I'm hoping that it opens up new doors and opportunities for me. 610 00:41:38,500 --> 00:41:43,000 I'm not sure if we need any more design critics but I do know 611 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,600 that the act of criticism is also I can act of observation 612 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:53,000 and caring and I like to see it as a way of thinking about, not 613 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,500 just what we will do, but what we have already done, you know. 614 00:41:56,900 --> 00:42:01,000 So so I'm not sure if I, if I need to position myself as a 615 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:05,800 design critic of any kind, but I do like to comment on and talk 616 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:10,300 about what I see. And what, I think the future 617 00:42:10,300 --> 00:42:17,300 might be and to that end. I've kind of decided that like 618 00:42:17,300 --> 00:42:21,700 over this next year, my lecture is called Old, what design might 619 00:42:21,700 --> 00:42:27,500 be, and, and it's has the same sort of front end of a of the 620 00:42:27,500 --> 00:42:31,400 lecture. But each time I kind of swap in 621 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:36,200 two new projects and talk about two projects in a very sort of 622 00:42:36,300 --> 00:42:40,300 Case Case, Study heavy way right and try and help people see how 623 00:42:40,300 --> 00:42:44,500 broad design is and how broad a design practice can be. 624 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:50,000 And so I'm kind of excited to share both big and small. 625 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,800 Projects, but things that are really Broad in their definition 626 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,300 and how they fit into this line as as a practice as they could 627 00:42:57,300 --> 00:42:58,900 into my practice. You know. 628 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:03,000 So writing is the biggest adventure of recent recent 629 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:04,800 years. Yeah, I was gonna ask you. 630 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,500 How have you, what advice do you have for people from managing 631 00:43:07,500 --> 00:43:11,200 that pivot from writing and ideas as a personal private 632 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,900 concern to flipping it to then open it up for others? 633 00:43:14,900 --> 00:43:21,300 To be a part of Cuz I know you've been an act thinker 634 00:43:21,300 --> 00:43:25,500 forever and so these ideas have been on the inside, but now 635 00:43:25,500 --> 00:43:28,100 you're really kind of exploring and opening them up and sharing 636 00:43:28,100 --> 00:43:36,900 them a bit more. I think, I think Michael Barrett 637 00:43:36,900 --> 00:43:42,300 said this once and it really, I really hope that close to me and 638 00:43:42,300 --> 00:43:45,200 that was like, don't be afraid to have mentors. 639 00:43:45,900 --> 00:43:51,400 And my addition to that is and don't tell them that, they're 640 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:56,400 your mentors, just be good to each other in the relationship. 641 00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,400 The m word, always freaks people out, right? 642 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,100 When someone says that I'm supposed to be their Mentor, I 643 00:44:02,108 --> 00:44:04,800 get freaked out a little bit, but if somebody To be in 644 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:09,500 community with me and spend time with me and learn with me and be 645 00:44:09,500 --> 00:44:12,200 with me. I'm kind of okay with that but 646 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:16,300 the mentor thing kind of feels like a lot of responsibility, 647 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,500 don't be afraid to have them but also you a little bit more 648 00:44:20,500 --> 00:44:26,000 stealthy than just kind of jump up on their shit and be like you 649 00:44:26,008 --> 00:44:30,400 know I want you to be my favorite because because we need 650 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,600 mentors. Everybody needs one. 651 00:44:33,300 --> 00:44:36,500 I certainly am. I sit at the feet of the master 652 00:44:36,500 --> 00:44:42,700 over and over and over again, but but I think it's like, don't 653 00:44:42,700 --> 00:44:45,600 let the process of getting a mentored assuage view from 654 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,300 having one just simply be in community, mood portal, and 655 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,800 quarter-point, recognizing those moment than those people. 656 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,700 In our lives that serve in a mentorship moment, whether you 657 00:44:56,700 --> 00:44:59,100 recognize it or not, you know, you go through the Journey. 658 00:44:59,100 --> 00:45:02,700 You realize that that you've been having these conversations 659 00:45:02,700 --> 00:45:06,400 that have been edifying and Enforcing and serving that 660 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:14,900 purpose about the label. Yeah, I mean I do think you have 661 00:45:14,900 --> 00:45:19,700 to, I do think you have to be in service of the relationship. 662 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:25,400 I do think there is at least your own awareness, right? 663 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:33,500 Is important because, because it can be, it can be extractive. 664 00:45:33,500 --> 00:45:36,800 And, and it can be painful for other people. 665 00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:41,300 So, so, having the awareness that, like, you are in a 666 00:45:41,308 --> 00:45:45,800 relationship with Somebody in that, it is fueling you is good 667 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,300 and then being aware of how other people need fuel as well. 668 00:45:49,300 --> 00:45:56,000 Is it maybe it's just maybe it's just straight up old mentorship 669 00:45:56,000 --> 00:46:00,400 but what it is that how they lose more subtle and less 670 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:07,500 extractive and more focused on like how we can be there for and 671 00:46:07,500 --> 00:46:12,600 with each other right? You know it's a balance It's I 672 00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:15,900 mean I don't even like the word balanced because it's just what 673 00:46:15,900 --> 00:46:17,800 people say when they want those things. 674 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:24,300 But but for me, it's like energetically super important to 675 00:46:24,300 --> 00:46:29,200 be both learning and teaching at the same time, this is 676 00:46:29,300 --> 00:46:31,300 incredible. We talked about bringing back 677 00:46:31,300 --> 00:46:35,000 together and and reconnection relationship. 678 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,200 So, I think it's a perfect way to end to talk about our 679 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,100 upcoming design conference in Seattle. 680 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:45,100 That we Do you know, we talked about it a lot and felt that you 681 00:46:45,100 --> 00:46:48,400 were the perfect person to get us started in a generative way 682 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:52,700 as we come back together and moving and expanding our host 683 00:46:52,700 --> 00:46:55,400 that we have along with yourself and the work that we're doing in 684 00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,300 bringing people back in, we've gotten such kind of positive 685 00:46:58,300 --> 00:47:02,600 feedback that people wanting this moment to get away from the 686 00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,200 screens and get back to coming together. 687 00:47:05,500 --> 00:47:08,200 So what what are you looking forward to most? 688 00:47:09,500 --> 00:47:14,800 Oh wait. I got good coffee for you. 689 00:47:14,900 --> 00:47:18,600 I got that for you. I'm gonna need it. 690 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:24,800 I'm looking forward to being with with the community of 691 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,000 designers that AIG a kind of brings together. 692 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,600 I'm looking forward to that had no answer, no doubt about it. 693 00:47:30,700 --> 00:47:35,000 I've only missed maybe three or four conferences in the last 25 694 00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:45,800 years. right now, the idea of reconnect its It's pretty, we 695 00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:49,200 Tail as a title goes. You know, I'm sure that there's 696 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:54,700 going to be 100 conferences called me connect, but I 697 00:47:54,700 --> 00:47:58,800 couldn't say, you know, like the title that I really want it and 698 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:02,700 put his competence which was you know, last year we called the 699 00:48:02,700 --> 00:48:05,300 conference a brief history of now, right? 700 00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,200 And you know like I think this conference should be called now. 701 00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:19,700 What The concept of what we did last year by bringing, like a 702 00:48:19,700 --> 00:48:24,300 really awesome group of people together to share, sort of 703 00:48:24,500 --> 00:48:28,700 situationally how we've arrived at this place and sort of what 704 00:48:28,700 --> 00:48:32,600 this place looks like. And what a reckoning on design 705 00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:36,100 and design thinking looks like, and how people are sort of tired 706 00:48:36,100 --> 00:48:38,700 of Post-it notes to tell us how the world's going to be. 707 00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:43,300 I mean, there's a bunch of that. And now we're at the Next Level, 708 00:48:43,500 --> 00:48:47,900 it's a little bit more connected to do. 709 00:48:47,900 --> 00:48:50,600 You understand the long-term impact of your work? 710 00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,200 Are you connected to your values as a person? 711 00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,900 And do you understand ethics? Even though the United States 712 00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:01,600 has gone so far out of its way to disrupt any ethical 713 00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:05,800 conversation that could occur right like do we have a 714 00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:10,200 grounding for what we do as a community of people and as a 715 00:49:10,208 --> 00:49:14,900 profession and I think that Because we're talking about time 716 00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:18,200 because we were talking about space because we're talking 717 00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,900 about human beings. And because we're here to honor 718 00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:26,600 again, like nothing happens without honoring my ancestors 719 00:49:26,900 --> 00:49:32,100 and that yours because we're here to kind of do that. 720 00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:36,000 I think that this conference is at a point in time where it's 721 00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:41,100 like, okay what my aiga be able to create us to conversation, 722 00:49:41,100 --> 00:49:44,000 that it is about leadership in the design now, right? 723 00:49:44,300 --> 00:49:49,200 And how is leadership and design everybody's business, right? 724 00:49:49,300 --> 00:49:53,700 How one person's actions make a difference and how we connect to 725 00:49:53,700 --> 00:49:56,500 our values design, has its own set of values. 726 00:49:56,700 --> 00:49:59,900 Whether we're aware of them or not design has its own set of 727 00:49:59,900 --> 00:50:05,500 deeply held values spring and It doesn't need to have the values 728 00:50:05,500 --> 00:50:09,800 of late-stage capitalism, Infuse, it or direct it, or 729 00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:13,000 manipulate it. And I think that at this 730 00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:16,500 conference, what we're trying to do is give designers as much 731 00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:20,300 autonomy in this very complicated world as possible, 732 00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:22,500 the chance to make their own decisions. 733 00:50:22,700 --> 00:50:25,600 The chance to bring their practice into focus and their 734 00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:29,100 purpose into focus. And so I know that the things 735 00:50:29,100 --> 00:50:32,600 that I'm hoping to see and learn from are going to do that for 736 00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:35,300 me. Me or this is an incredible 737 00:50:35,300 --> 00:50:39,300 amount of Talent on the table. Yeah and I really hope everybody 738 00:50:39,300 --> 00:50:43,100 else enjoys it to do because I'm going to sessions to learn I'm 739 00:50:43,100 --> 00:50:46,800 doing and you know I'm going to be attending to this as an 740 00:50:46,808 --> 00:50:55,800 attendee not just as a person who's organizing That's a 741 00:50:55,808 --> 00:50:58,900 perfect way to end our conversation today. 742 00:50:58,900 --> 00:51:02,300 You just you just put it out there for free, but as I said, 743 00:51:02,300 --> 00:51:05,600 it depart departure points. Thank you all for joining us. 744 00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:11,700 Rick this has been incredible to it's fun for me to share the 745 00:51:11,700 --> 00:51:14,200 type of conversations that you and I have when it's just the 746 00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:16,200 two of us with the rest of the world. 747 00:51:17,100 --> 00:51:20,200 It's been. I think you just personally for 748 00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:24,700 your support and Leadership. Worship and going with me, with 749 00:51:24,700 --> 00:51:26,900 crazy ideas and share, with me. Crazy idea. 750 00:51:26,900 --> 00:51:29,700 Is it as putting our crazy together and thinking that we 751 00:51:29,700 --> 00:51:32,200 can change the world? Because that's the purpose of 752 00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,500 design, as I said before, as a starting point. 753 00:51:35,500 --> 00:51:39,000 Yes, Rick is the designer. Yes, he's a master of 754 00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:45,600 Letterpress, but Rick is so much more L teacher Challenger and 755 00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:50,800 good strength. Yes, lifelong learner and 756 00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:54,500 trouble making friends. Thank, you know, there's a, 757 00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,300 there's a lyric that I want to put in your in your head just 758 00:51:57,300 --> 00:52:01,400 before we leave. But he had, this is a most theft 759 00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:07,200 song and someone says Hey most what's hip hop going to be like 760 00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:10,600 in the future? And most says you know it's 761 00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,400 whatever we are in the future is what hip-hop is going to be in 762 00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,300 the future if we were smoked out. 763 00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:18,200 It's going to be smoked out. If we're real, it's going to be 764 00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,300 real. If we're together, we're going 765 00:52:20,300 --> 00:52:22,800 to be together. And that's I mean in In some 766 00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:27,400 sense, I really love this idea about design is a collection of 767 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,700 human beings of practice design. All right, it's nothing more 768 00:52:30,700 --> 00:52:32,900 than that. And when we get together, 769 00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,300 hopefully what we'll do is we'll find it how to do it in 770 00:52:36,300 --> 00:52:39,600 community with other designers and also the planet and the 771 00:52:39,608 --> 00:52:43,700 people to live on this planet. Well said that I say, amen. 772 00:52:44,100 --> 00:52:48,700 And we look forward to seeing everybody in Seattle next month. 773 00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,000 Thank you all for joining us, Rick. 774 00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:52,300 Thank you. As always. 775 00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:57,300 If this has been a fireside chat with aiga design, thank you all. 776 00:52:58,000 --> 00:52:58,500 Watch your mouth.