1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,300 I think what I've been lucky to be able to do and to explore 2 00:00:03,300 --> 00:00:06,600 his, how to take those skills? I learned in linguistics that 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:08,800 helped us really tune into and understand what people are 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:10,600 saying and what's underneath, what they're saying? 5 00:00:10,900 --> 00:00:13,800 And apply that as a design, researcher and idea, dot org and 6 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,700 apply that to creating new Solutions. 7 00:00:16,700 --> 00:00:19,200 Whereas Linguistics is a more academic Pursuit, right? 8 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,100 We're listening for the sake of understanding and design were 9 00:00:22,100 --> 00:00:24,800 listening for the sake of being able to influence the outcomes. 10 00:00:28,500 --> 00:00:32,800 Hello, and Come to designer. Jason, the podcast that talks 11 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,300 about the Nexus of design both today. 12 00:00:35,500 --> 00:00:39,000 And tomorrow, I'm your host, Ben EF Johnson. 13 00:00:39,500 --> 00:00:44,100 And today, our guest is none other than Shiner carry Shana 14 00:00:44,100 --> 00:00:48,000 recently became the new Chief Executive Officer of the 15 00:00:48,008 --> 00:00:53,600 legendary ideal dot-org. Yes, the nonprofit design 16 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:58,000 organization that leverages deep expertise in both design and 17 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,900 social impact. Sean-nós All place from her 18 00:01:00,900 --> 00:01:05,000 experience in previously serving as executive design director and 19 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,700 chief Communications officer. She's worked alongside design 20 00:01:08,700 --> 00:01:12,100 teams and communities to surface insights, to a lot new 21 00:01:12,100 --> 00:01:14,800 possibilities. Create narrative that Inspire 22 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:18,300 action and share stories about the impact of design. 23 00:01:18,700 --> 00:01:22,400 Chief also previously served as managing director and co-lead of 24 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,600 the New York Studio prior to joining the ideal dot-org, Shana 25 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,800 worked to expand access to Quality education, Healthcare 26 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,500 She's also helped launch and grow a number of mission-driven 27 00:01:32,500 --> 00:01:36,700 startups, both in Europe and the San Francisco Bay Area, a social 28 00:01:36,700 --> 00:01:39,000 scientist at heart. She holds a degree in 29 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,800 linguistics from the University of California, Santa Cruz, and 30 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,400 outside of work. She's happiest Barefoot on the 31 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,800 beach somewhere, or at home in Brooklyn Shana, Welcome to our 32 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:51,800 podcast. Thanks for having me. 33 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,900 It's a nice to meet you. It's really great to have you. 34 00:01:54,900 --> 00:01:57,100 Join us in first? Let me say congratulations. 35 00:01:57,100 --> 00:01:59,800 Thank you so much. You newly elevated. 36 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,800 GTL of Ideal dot-org. What was the first thing that 37 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,000 went through your mind? When you receive the call or 38 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:07,700 text or email? That's it. 39 00:02:07,900 --> 00:02:11,700 Shauna you're our next leader. Gratitude is probably the first 40 00:02:11,700 --> 00:02:15,400 thing that went through my mind, being trusted to Steward this 41 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,300 organization and the people who work in it, that I care so much 42 00:02:18,300 --> 00:02:21,100 about and to keep doing this work that I believe in feels 43 00:02:21,100 --> 00:02:23,300 like such an incredible privilege and I'm just really 44 00:02:23,300 --> 00:02:27,400 grateful to have a new chapter. Speaking of new chapter. 45 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,800 I love this quote from your announcement. 46 00:02:29,900 --> 00:02:33,700 Ain't a co.design approach. Ensures people have authorship 47 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,800 over the services systems and policies that directly impact 48 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,600 them. This is what I believe ideal dot 49 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:42,600 orgs. Next chapter is all about 50 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,400 harnessing the power of design to create systemic change that 51 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,200 is rooted in visions that communities have for their own 52 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,600 futures, for our audience, who may be familiar with idea as the 53 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,800 consultancy talk, a bit about the formation and creation of 54 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:06,000 ideal dot-org, Idea dot org spun out from Ideo. 11 years ago to 55 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,400 exclusively work on social impact and social justice 56 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,300 challenges. So we partner with nonprofits 57 00:03:12,300 --> 00:03:17,100 and government and social Enterprises to help them 58 00:03:17,100 --> 00:03:19,800 accelerate their mission. Serve the populations that they 59 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,600 serve in a better way. We're really focused on using 60 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,800 design and harnessing the power of creativity to really Foster 61 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,800 systemic change alongside our partners over the last decade 62 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,100 has been incredibly bold amount of work in Project. 63 00:03:33,100 --> 00:03:36,200 You've gone after. What was the first project that 64 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,100 really scared you? We're gonna die idea. 65 00:03:38,100 --> 00:03:40,000 What was the problem? That was so wicked. 66 00:03:40,100 --> 00:03:43,600 That you thought this is insane for us to even try pretty much 67 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,000 every project I've ever get Space without a day. 68 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,200 When it scared me. And I think that's good and I 69 00:03:49,208 --> 00:03:51,400 think right. If we don't get a little scared, 70 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:53,200 we're probably not Aiming High Enough. 71 00:03:53,300 --> 00:03:57,400 The first project I ever did, audio dot work was focused on 72 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,400 increasing. The incidence of reporting of 73 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,800 sexual violence. So supporting largely women and 74 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:08,600 children to have access to counseling and legal support and 75 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,300 Supportive Housing and our partners provided all those 76 00:04:11,300 --> 00:04:13,900 services, but they can't help anyone who doesn't perform it in 77 00:04:13,900 --> 00:04:15,900 the first place. And so, it was really about 78 00:04:15,900 --> 00:04:18,300 ensuring people knew about the services that are available to 79 00:04:18,300 --> 00:04:20,800 them. And helping, folks, take that 80 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,900 first step. Like so many of the other issues 81 00:04:23,900 --> 00:04:26,600 that we work on audio door. That's really a problem that is 82 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,900 about trust. And creating a sense of safety 83 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,200 for people. And so I think it's scary. 84 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,000 Anytime you're trying to design and you have to change the 85 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,400 Dynamics of social dynamics. Seen a group of people. 86 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,600 So designing, for trust designing for agency, designing 87 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,200 for safety. Like those are sensitive topics, 88 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:50,000 but they're also not easy ones, and so I think I was new to 89 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:56,200 design in that project, but also I was really cognizant of how 90 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,400 consequential We're going to be for the people that didn't 91 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,900 deserve. And so when we do design work in 92 00:05:02,900 --> 00:05:05,500 service of social justice, we have to carry with us enough, 93 00:05:05,500 --> 00:05:08,400 levity to be creative but also be grounded in that. 94 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,500 These are the problems that shape people's lives. 95 00:05:10,500 --> 00:05:13,200 I'm gonna take them really seriously finding that balance 96 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,600 was something that, you know, I always have questions up. 97 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,700 It's something that from day one has felt like a really important 98 00:05:18,700 --> 00:05:21,800 Challenge and conscionable. One of the things that I also 99 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:26,200 noticed as how you've intentionally built your studios 100 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,000 around the globe. Is it often that you see a lot 101 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,200 of synergy across the studio spaces with the work you have in 102 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,700 Nairobi and in New York in particular, I think the 103 00:05:35,700 --> 00:05:40,100 interesting thing about having studios in the US and in Kenya 104 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:45,000 is that there are ways in which we can really learn from each 105 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:46,900 other, and share, and there's a lot of overlap. 106 00:05:46,900 --> 00:05:49,400 So, for example, reproductive Health Care is an area, we work 107 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,200 a lot in we work, right? In Dallas on reproductive 108 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,500 Healthcare and Spain access to clinics and services and we work 109 00:05:55,500 --> 00:05:59,500 in Uganda on that same issue. And so I think having teams were 110 00:05:59,500 --> 00:06:02,000 working on some of the same challenges in such different 111 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:06,000 context allows us to see patterns, we might not otherwise 112 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,600 see allows us to learn from each other but when it really gets 113 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,000 down to it a challenge like ensuring someone has access to 114 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,200 good reproductive health care is about the same Dynamics, no 115 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,800 matter where you were right. It's about good providers. 116 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,100 That availability of care. Having a safe and supportive 117 00:06:20,100 --> 00:06:22,900 environment to ask questions about having clear information 118 00:06:22,900 --> 00:06:25,700 that resonates with your context in the way you think about 119 00:06:25,700 --> 00:06:27,600 planning your life and so many ways. 120 00:06:27,700 --> 00:06:30,200 There are similarities across those videos and then I think in 121 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,900 other ways we're able to draw upon and Inspire each other 122 00:06:32,900 --> 00:06:35,900 through, the ways are different cultures and different lived 123 00:06:35,900 --> 00:06:37,900 experiences show up in the design work. 124 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,300 And that's been really interesting, is the contrast 125 00:06:40,300 --> 00:06:42,500 between those two things. One of the things that you 126 00:06:42,500 --> 00:06:45,900 outline, really in a success, is looking at that ideal dot-org, 127 00:06:46,300 --> 00:06:48,800 you talk about, finding in rows, to Wicked problems, which we've 128 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,700 mentioned, but you also talk a bit about what it takes to 129 00:06:51,700 --> 00:06:54,800 really scale design Solutions. It seems like you're hinting at 130 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,400 that even with this conversation about the reproductive help 131 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,000 Channel. Just what have you seen that? 132 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:03,600 It takes to find the in road to the wicked problem, design a 133 00:07:03,608 --> 00:07:06,200 solution. But then deployed at scale. 134 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,600 What are some of the learnings are things that you've come up 135 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,300 with? Our process has really anchored 136 00:07:11,300 --> 00:07:15,100 in understanding that finding out what the right thing is, 137 00:07:15,100 --> 00:07:16,600 right? And finding out how to get that 138 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,100 right thing in front of the most people are actually two separate 139 00:07:19,100 --> 00:07:24,500 design processes, right? So often figuring out how to 140 00:07:24,500 --> 00:07:28,800 solve someone's challenge or how to what the right new service or 141 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,300 product, or experiences is really about testing, lots of 142 00:07:32,300 --> 00:07:34,300 different things about prototyping, lots of potential 143 00:07:34,300 --> 00:07:36,600 options. It's also about ensuring that 144 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,600 the folks who are most impacted by the outcome of that design 145 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:41,700 process have a seat at the table, not just at the beginning 146 00:07:41,700 --> 00:07:45,500 of the throughout and have the real power to Define what the 147 00:07:45,500 --> 00:07:48,300 outcome of that project will look like and to give feedback 148 00:07:48,300 --> 00:07:51,500 and to have influence. And so really understand that 149 00:07:51,500 --> 00:07:53,900 like the output of a process like that is often a pilot. 150 00:07:53,900 --> 00:07:57,500 It's a first step, it's about getting enough of a solution. 151 00:07:57,700 --> 00:08:01,000 That you can start to measure what works and understand why. 152 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,500 And also start to understand what are the critical components 153 00:08:04,500 --> 00:08:08,000 of that solution that would need to exist in any context and so 154 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,400 that first design process really about asking what do we need? 155 00:08:11,500 --> 00:08:15,100 And then to scale solution is a set whole second effort Wich is 156 00:08:15,100 --> 00:08:17,800 to ask, how do we get it all the places it needs to be? 157 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:19,400 And don't example, I might give you. 158 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:23,300 So we worked in Ethiopia in the public health system there on, 159 00:08:23,300 --> 00:08:26,400 designing, a new reproductive Health, Service, that engages 160 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,300 couples and Saying basically, life planning counseling that 161 00:08:29,300 --> 00:08:32,299 also includes a module on Family Planning. 162 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,600 And so really help couples overcoming the taboo of the 163 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,600 topic of Family Planning and have a conversation about how 164 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,600 many children they want to have. And when and also enables women 165 00:08:42,799 --> 00:08:45,100 in the context of that environment, to access the 166 00:08:45,100 --> 00:08:48,500 healthcare that they figuring out what that solution was that 167 00:08:48,500 --> 00:08:50,700 we needed to be counseling base. That it should engage young. 168 00:08:50,700 --> 00:08:53,200 Couples figure out what the right tools and information are 169 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,200 there going to be contextually relevant. 170 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:57,600 That's one design process that we did in. 171 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:02,000 There with our partners, at PSI with behavioral, scientists with 172 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,300 Cadre of young, Ethiopian co-designers, who worked 173 00:09:04,300 --> 00:09:08,000 alongside our team and that got us to a really strong pilot 174 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,900 where we could seize up to 75% of girls adopting, a new 175 00:09:10,900 --> 00:09:14,900 contraceptive Services, we have those sessions but then that 176 00:09:14,900 --> 00:09:17,500 success meant that the Ethiopian government wanted to scale it 177 00:09:17,500 --> 00:09:19,900 into the system nationally right and figuring out. 178 00:09:19,900 --> 00:09:21,700 How do we make this thing that works in one place? 179 00:09:21,700 --> 00:09:25,200 But we have a lot of control over the variables of how do we 180 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,500 make it work in a distributed nationally. 181 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:29,900 Small Health Care System. That's a whole design exercise 182 00:09:29,900 --> 00:09:32,400 in itself where we need organizational, designers and 183 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,500 systems designers, and business designers to help us extract. 184 00:09:35,500 --> 00:09:37,600 What's working? Well about the first pilot 185 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,700 version and how do we create a version of this, more modular, 186 00:09:40,700 --> 00:09:44,800 able to be rolled out at scale, without losing the pieces that 187 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,400 make it some fective often when we pick something that's worked. 188 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,200 Well, in one context and we scale it. 189 00:09:49,500 --> 00:09:51,900 We don't take the time to really treat that as a design exercise 190 00:09:51,900 --> 00:09:54,400 and understand what those most critical components are. 191 00:09:54,500 --> 00:09:58,100 And so, what made the system work in one place gets Down in 192 00:09:58,100 --> 00:10:00,300 the scaling process. And so, by really treating this, 193 00:10:00,300 --> 00:10:03,800 a separate design exercise, we're able to isolate and invest 194 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,400 in and support the pieces. They're going to create the most 195 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,800 important outcomes in the long run, which struck me as 196 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:10,400 interesting. It's how you describe these as 197 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,200 two separate design exercises. So if we follow that, that 198 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,400 Trooper, if minute, do you have two separate teams? 199 00:10:17,500 --> 00:10:21,000 How do you determine what design Talent you need in the mix for 200 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,000 the problem? We don't necessarily have two 201 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,700 distinct teams, think about design and scaling but we have a 202 00:10:26,700 --> 00:10:29,700 lot of different. Skill sets that are not in 203 00:10:29,708 --> 00:10:32,300 different moments of the process, right in particular. 204 00:10:32,300 --> 00:10:35,700 I think about a phase that is about optimizing and scaling an 205 00:10:35,700 --> 00:10:38,100 intervention and making it accessible to more people. 206 00:10:38,500 --> 00:10:41,300 I'm looking for people who can help us understand what's 207 00:10:41,300 --> 00:10:44,300 working, so that might be an impact evaluator, it might be a 208 00:10:44,308 --> 00:10:46,700 design researcher. I'm looking for someone who can 209 00:10:46,700 --> 00:10:48,900 help us designed in the constraint. 210 00:10:48,900 --> 00:10:51,300 So whatever the system were trying to scale within our. 211 00:10:51,500 --> 00:10:53,800 So I might be a business design or an organizational designer, 212 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,800 who can design the right incentives, training tools, 213 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,700 business models. Going to underpin and support, 214 00:10:59,700 --> 00:11:01,800 the long-term success of sustainability. 215 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,100 And those are skills that are also really important in the 216 00:11:05,100 --> 00:11:07,400 first design were designing a pilot, right? 217 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,200 But they are may be utilized in a slightly different way and 218 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,600 they have a different mandate right, which is to focus on that 219 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,800 aspect of scale and to focus on scale with quality, which is not 220 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:18,300 the same thing as just scaling, right? 221 00:11:18,300 --> 00:11:20,800 We can often hit, many numbers but the outcomes are the most 222 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:22,400 important part when you're working in, right? 223 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,900 That's my back, right? So I have this question and it's 224 00:11:24,900 --> 00:11:29,000 going to be a play on the words because you're so Giant InDesign 225 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,800 what corrects you to design from Linguistics. 226 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:36,000 That's a good question and not a straight path and no requirement 227 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,300 that it had to be. I'm just sure that listeners may 228 00:11:38,300 --> 00:11:41,200 be curious that you maybe at first, guess who majored, in 229 00:11:41,208 --> 00:11:43,900 linguistics, what a great distinction to hold? 230 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:47,500 You know what, drew me to study Linguistics was I have always 231 00:11:47,500 --> 00:11:50,800 been fascinated by how we communicate as people and what 232 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,100 that says about us, what that says about, we value, who we are 233 00:11:54,500 --> 00:11:59,000 the families and communities. He grew up in and so Those same 234 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,000 things led me to design ultimately, but through a rather 235 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,400 circuitous path. When I graduated from college, I 236 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,800 decided to focus on social impact and social justice work. 237 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,500 So I worked in community health organization's, I worked in 238 00:12:11,500 --> 00:12:16,500 education and I was really drawn to figuring out how we make 239 00:12:16,500 --> 00:12:20,200 these systems work. Better for people, write and 240 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,800 design came into my world. Sort of, by happenstance. 241 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:25,400 I learned about idea da towards work. 242 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,500 While I was working in some of these organizations. 243 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,300 Is that are much like the partner organizations we work 244 00:12:29,300 --> 00:12:33,300 with now and this idea of human centered design and starting 245 00:12:33,300 --> 00:12:35,500 from a place of deep listening and also testing and 246 00:12:35,500 --> 00:12:38,600 prototyping, many solutions. It's like Creative Energy felt 247 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,000 really compelling as an answer to some of the challenges I was 248 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,200 seeing in the organizations and the spaces I was working in. 249 00:12:44,500 --> 00:12:47,300 No one is more surprised that I that I ended up in a designed 250 00:12:47,300 --> 00:12:48,900 for her and for the last nine years. 251 00:12:49,100 --> 00:12:52,500 But I think what I've been lucky to be able to do and to explore, 252 00:12:52,500 --> 00:12:55,700 is how to take those skills. I learned in linguistics that 253 00:12:55,700 --> 00:12:57,400 helped us really tune into and understand. 254 00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,800 People are saying and what's underneath, what they're saying, 255 00:13:00,100 --> 00:13:02,900 and apply that as a design, researcher and idea, dot org and 256 00:13:02,900 --> 00:13:05,600 apply that to creating new Solutions. 257 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,100 Whereas Linguistics is a more academic Pursuit, right? 258 00:13:08,100 --> 00:13:11,000 We're listening for the sake of understanding and InDesign we're 259 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,700 listening for the sake of being able to influence the outcomes. 260 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,500 So that's how I ended up here. But it's definitely been 261 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:18,300 incredible. And sometimes really humbling 262 00:13:18,300 --> 00:13:21,300 process over the last nine years to figure out how to apply my 263 00:13:21,300 --> 00:13:23,700 skills. Best in service in the gold, we 264 00:13:23,700 --> 00:13:26,800 have the design organization. It's so wonderful to hear that 265 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,000 Journey. And it speaks to what we've been 266 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,200 sharing about this Nexus of design today. 267 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,800 And tomorrow for design adjacent, it's actually kind of 268 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:37,100 a design adjacent path, where you're taking those skills into 269 00:13:37,100 --> 00:13:40,400 snatcher leading into the space. Following this idea of Journey. 270 00:13:40,700 --> 00:13:44,900 How do problem late in organizations, and I say it like 271 00:13:44,900 --> 00:13:47,800 that, on purpose, organizations that are bringing to the table. 272 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,600 These Wicked problems. How do they find you as ideal 273 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,000 dot-org? How would an organization find 274 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,000 its way into a partnership with you? 275 00:13:55,100 --> 00:13:57,400 There are probably as many routes into partnership with us. 276 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,900 As there are organizations, we've worked with okay? 277 00:13:59,900 --> 00:14:03,200 All right, I would maybe classify them as aspiration 278 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,500 leading organization so we okay and work with Partners who, see, 279 00:14:07,500 --> 00:14:12,000 a future that they want to build towards and want some support 280 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:13,700 getting there and taking steps towards it. 281 00:14:13,700 --> 00:14:16,900 And so organization sometimes come to us with a challenge, 282 00:14:16,900 --> 00:14:21,400 like they have a program or part of their work isn't operating 283 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,300 effectively as they like it too. Other times organizations come 284 00:14:24,300 --> 00:14:27,700 to us with a big bold idea. Something they've never ever 285 00:14:27,700 --> 00:14:29,000 seen before. Do they want to try out and 286 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,000 they're looking for someone to take that leap with them. 287 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:32,900 Okay? And make their idea tangible and 288 00:14:32,900 --> 00:14:35,100 real, and something that exists in the world. 289 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,300 Often we work with organizations over and over again. 290 00:14:38,300 --> 00:14:40,800 So, we have certain Partners like a light form of the 291 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,800 American Refugee committee, or like the Robert Wood Johnson 292 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,300 Foundation, folks that we've worked with a number of times 293 00:14:46,300 --> 00:14:49,200 and who have shared goals, you know, our mission is to design a 294 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,600 more just and Equitable world and organizations that. 295 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,600 Share that Vision, we tend to partner with over and over 296 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,100 again. Since there are so many things 297 00:14:56,100 --> 00:14:58,500 that need to happen to realize that my And as we're always 298 00:14:58,500 --> 00:15:01,300 looking for more than just you are aligned to that and ready to 299 00:15:01,300 --> 00:15:03,900 try some new things together. Do you have moments where you're 300 00:15:03,900 --> 00:15:06,800 working for partner and they come to you with with a problem 301 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,600 with a small p and you're able to elevate and show them that 302 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,300 there's a solution to a bigger problem with a bigger P. 303 00:15:13,500 --> 00:15:16,100 They can go after where you're able to elevate, even their 304 00:15:16,100 --> 00:15:17,600 thoughts of what impact could be. 305 00:15:17,900 --> 00:15:20,700 So we adopt a really co.design Centric approach to the way that 306 00:15:20,700 --> 00:15:22,800 we work, right? When our partners come to us, 307 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,900 they often have an outcome goal in mind, but how we get there is 308 00:15:25,900 --> 00:15:28,500 really open, okay. And so, So, we bring together 309 00:15:28,500 --> 00:15:31,300 coalition's of people from communities from implementing 310 00:15:31,300 --> 00:15:33,900 organizations, who serve live with that challenge every day 311 00:15:33,900 --> 00:15:37,300 and are most proximate to it and have the highest stakes in the 312 00:15:37,300 --> 00:15:40,300 outcome of that work, right? And together, try and really 313 00:15:40,300 --> 00:15:42,000 Define what's going on here. What is the problem? 314 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,300 Let's look at this Challenge from multiple angles and Define 315 00:15:45,300 --> 00:15:47,500 together a shared blueprint for success. 316 00:15:47,500 --> 00:15:50,500 And what that looks like, coughing that process of seeing 317 00:15:50,500 --> 00:15:52,100 the problem from a different angles. 318 00:15:52,100 --> 00:15:55,700 And I've been fighting so many different kinds of people into 319 00:15:55,700 --> 00:15:57,400 the process and kinds of stakeholders. 320 00:15:57,900 --> 00:16:00,500 That often changes. Every frame is the way our 321 00:16:00,500 --> 00:16:02,300 partners are, they talked a little bit, a lot about that. 322 00:16:02,300 --> 00:16:04,300 You know, we've had conversations about teamwork 323 00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:07,600 about collaboration but we've never really had a chance to dig 324 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,300 into this concept of Coalition building. 325 00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:13,900 Hmm, which are expanding the voices and perspectives at the 326 00:16:13,900 --> 00:16:16,000 table in a really intentional way. 327 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,600 So kind of talk about some of those powers that you see when 328 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,700 you start to really dig into Coalition, we're really focused 329 00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:25,900 on trying to create systemic and enduring change, I guess is 330 00:16:25,900 --> 00:16:28,500 where I would say. And that's About not just 331 00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:30,600 mitigating are addressing the symptoms of a problem, but 332 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:32,800 actually trying to influence the conditions that create that 333 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,700 problem, right, right. And in order to do that, we have 334 00:16:36,700 --> 00:16:39,000 to attack a problem from multiple different leverage 335 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,200 points though, both address and create better products and 336 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,000 systems and services and institutions that people 337 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,700 interact with every day. But also to influence the norms 338 00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:51,500 and beliefs, that underpin, all those things over time, it's a 339 00:16:51,508 --> 00:16:53,900 long game. And it pretty much always means 340 00:16:53,900 --> 00:16:55,600 working with many different actors. 341 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,500 Some of whom don't see eye-to-eye right, right? 342 00:16:57,700 --> 00:17:01,300 And so, if we believe that's what success looks like and that 343 00:17:01,300 --> 00:17:03,200 we believe that's the way we're gonna get to that enduring 344 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,300 change that We crave, we have to be able to collaborate with a 345 00:17:06,308 --> 00:17:10,400 really diverse Coalition of people who have influence over 346 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:14,599 different levers in that system who have a different vantage 347 00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:18,700 point on that system who bring different skills to the table. 348 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,500 So that means we're gonna have to collaborate in a pretty 349 00:17:21,500 --> 00:17:24,599 radical way in the same way that like in many creative 350 00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:28,099 institutions for a long time, we've had to create Sinclair 351 00:17:28,099 --> 00:17:31,100 roles and expectations around. What collaboration will look 352 00:17:31,100 --> 00:17:34,400 like to enable it to fry. We're having to do that at a 353 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,600 much wider scale. We take on these big systems 354 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,000 challenges, right? We're having to create those 355 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,500 clear roles and agreements and Clarity and right and shared 356 00:17:42,500 --> 00:17:44,900 Vision among a much wider set of people. 357 00:17:44,900 --> 00:17:47,900 And the power of that Coalition building and of working 358 00:17:47,900 --> 00:17:51,400 together, even though it might feel cumbersome in moments is I 359 00:17:51,408 --> 00:17:53,400 think that you end up with a blueprint for change. 360 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,700 That is so much stronger and imbued with the hopes and 361 00:17:55,700 --> 00:17:58,900 aspirations and the wisdom. It's a wider set of people. 362 00:17:58,900 --> 00:18:01,600 Then repeats have been involved in the design process, all 363 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:03,300 right. It's really inspiring to hear 364 00:18:03,300 --> 00:18:06,000 you talk about the work that you're doing the trials 365 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,000 tribulations challenges but more importantly the rewards and 366 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,100 impact for many of our listeners, especially those who 367 00:18:12,100 --> 00:18:15,500 are starting their careers. There's an interest in this 368 00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:18,000 Nexus of design and social impact. 369 00:18:18,100 --> 00:18:20,600 What advice would you have for our listeners? 370 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:24,000 Who were starting to explore new careers and new models for 371 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,900 careers about how they can connect design and social 372 00:18:26,900 --> 00:18:30,000 impact? I think the most important 373 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:36,000 advice I would have is to focus on outcomes if you're trying to 374 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:40,200 design for social impact. And so I think in design and 375 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,200 design education, as I understand it. 376 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:46,000 Having my gun design school myself, I think we can focus a 377 00:18:46,008 --> 00:18:47,700 lot on the what what are we creating? 378 00:18:47,700 --> 00:18:49,400 What are we making? What is it? 379 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,400 What does it do? And I think in social impact 380 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,600 their social justice work. It's incumbent upon us to focus 381 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,000 on the outcomes. And the impact that those things 382 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,000 can have in the world and really anchored of those. 383 00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:04,100 And so, I think that the practice that not all designers 384 00:19:04,100 --> 00:19:05,500 are taught. I think it's a practice that 385 00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:08,900 novel design, firms focus on. But if we're gonna focus on 386 00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:12,300 issues like health and education and livelihoods things that have 387 00:19:12,300 --> 00:19:14,600 such a meaningful impact on people's real lives. 388 00:19:14,700 --> 00:19:17,500 We have to hold ourselves accountable as designers to 389 00:19:17,500 --> 00:19:20,200 something a much higher bar, the novel Solutions, we have to 390 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,400 create things that actually ship triangle flag. 391 00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:24,600 That's one piece of advice. I would give is early to 392 00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:28,800 practice that orientation, which I think it is a This, when 393 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,900 you're creating things and to make sure that your ideas and 394 00:19:31,900 --> 00:19:33,700 the things you're designing are actually laddering up to 395 00:19:33,700 --> 00:19:36,200 meaningful change and to be self-aware about when they have 396 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:37,600 it. You know, we all have had 397 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,500 moments where you missed the mark but it's important to be 398 00:19:39,500 --> 00:19:42,300 critical and to learn from those moments and not just trying to 399 00:19:42,308 --> 00:19:45,300 brush it under the rug and we try to do as an organization and 400 00:19:45,300 --> 00:19:47,800 on the about org I'm something I tried to do my own personal 401 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,100 practice. I think that the other advice I 402 00:19:51,108 --> 00:19:54,300 might give to folks who are starting out and interested in 403 00:19:54,300 --> 00:19:57,300 starting their current design and focus on social impact is 404 00:19:57,300 --> 00:19:59,000 too. Not worried about the career. 405 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,500 You want have 15 years from now is to really just focus on. 406 00:20:02,500 --> 00:20:05,900 What is the interesting problem or challenge you see in the 407 00:20:05,900 --> 00:20:07,900 world that you are passionate about that, you feel like you 408 00:20:07,908 --> 00:20:09,900 have something to offer to it, right? 409 00:20:09,900 --> 00:20:13,100 Find the people who who understand that challenge who 410 00:20:13,100 --> 00:20:17,400 are addressing it in a way that aligns with your values and ask 411 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,900 how you can be of service. To me, design is most powerful 412 00:20:19,900 --> 00:20:22,200 when it's an act of service. It's using our creative tools 413 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,900 and skills, and saying, what can we offer the folks who are 414 00:20:25,900 --> 00:20:27,400 trying to solve the problem? What can we do? 415 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,200 To the table. And for me designs role in these 416 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,000 sorts of challenges is really twofold. 417 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,000 It's to help align our often a really diverse and Broad 418 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,700 Coalition of stakeholders and he's our creative process to 419 00:20:38,700 --> 00:20:41,400 help create a shared vision for change that we can all operate 420 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,700 from and move towards. And I think it's using our 421 00:20:44,700 --> 00:20:46,900 creative skills and abilities to help. 422 00:20:46,900 --> 00:20:50,000 Take the first steps towards that future to make ideas. 423 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,100 Real in the world to build evidence. 424 00:20:52,100 --> 00:20:54,500 That, that change is not only possible. 425 00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:57,600 It's inevitable. We're going to get there and To 426 00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,500 build momentum. That only comes from actually 427 00:20:59,500 --> 00:21:01,100 testing and trying things out in the world. 428 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,200 And so I think yeah, fine people in organizations who are doing 429 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,700 amazing work and ask how you can use your creative skills to help 430 00:21:06,700 --> 00:21:08,300 them. When you're looking to build the 431 00:21:08,308 --> 00:21:10,800 team, where do you look to find talent? 432 00:21:11,100 --> 00:21:15,100 I am always looking for people who could help idea, dark 433 00:21:15,100 --> 00:21:19,000 achieve remission. So we even are often where we're 434 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,600 bringing in folks to our team who are coming from different 435 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,000 backgrounds in design. So whether that's folks who are 436 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,300 incredible, communication design, Is he bring a really 437 00:21:28,300 --> 00:21:31,400 unique lens to the way they think about visual communication 438 00:21:31,700 --> 00:21:34,800 or business designers, who can really take, the institutions 439 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,500 were working with and help them figure out and understand how to 440 00:21:37,500 --> 00:21:39,300 implement the things. We're suggesting even when it 441 00:21:39,300 --> 00:21:42,500 feels aspirational and higher. In other cases we're looking for 442 00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:46,500 folks who have real expertise and lived experience addressing 443 00:21:46,500 --> 00:21:47,800 the issues that we're focused on. 444 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:49,400 Right. So we have on our team who are 445 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,200 really specialized around Healthcare education around 446 00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:55,400 financial services and we're also looking for people who 447 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,900 possess the of course, out of Collaboration skills, which 448 00:21:58,900 --> 00:22:02,500 includes enthusiasm and Imagination and includes the 449 00:22:02,500 --> 00:22:07,300 self-awareness to be able to know your own blind spots and 450 00:22:07,300 --> 00:22:09,200 work in collaboration with others who possess different 451 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,000 skills and expertise. So those people can come from 452 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:13,900 anywhere and we always have an eye open. 453 00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:17,300 I asked a question looking at the team, it's immediately 454 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,200 apparent, how diverse and dynamic, the group is that you 455 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,000 put together for each of your projects. 456 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,800 So, it's you nestled into the Helm of being the CEO of ideo 457 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:28,800 dot-org. He talked a bit about the next 458 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,700 chapter but I'm going to ask more directly. 459 00:22:30,700 --> 00:22:33,900 What's next for ideal dot-org? What's the next step in your 460 00:22:33,900 --> 00:22:36,300 evolution in making an impact on the world? 461 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,200 The work I'm most excited about right now and probably honestly 462 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:41,600 the work. I've always been most excited 463 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:46,600 about and I be about work is when we're able to create new 464 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,800 Solutions and services that address really pressing and 465 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,800 Urgent needs today. But that also start to influence 466 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,900 sometimes subtly and some types of birds of Li the underlying, 467 00:22:57,500 --> 00:22:59,900 Dynamics that create those challenges are trying to tackle 468 00:22:59,900 --> 00:23:02,800 in the first place. And so whether that's working in 469 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,800 mental health and creating interventions that address the 470 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,300 underlying stigma that Still Remains and so many communities 471 00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:13,000 are on accessing mental support or whether that's working on 472 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,100 digital financial services in East Africa, that paved the way 473 00:23:16,100 --> 00:23:19,600 for women to have more agency and how an earning and spending 474 00:23:19,900 --> 00:23:22,900 money in their household or whether that's, you know, 475 00:23:22,900 --> 00:23:27,300 working in reproductive health care and creating interventions 476 00:23:27,300 --> 00:23:31,700 that Actually put more power in the hands of the people seeking 477 00:23:31,700 --> 00:23:33,800 care. That's what I'm really excited 478 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,700 about. I think design at its best is 479 00:23:36,700 --> 00:23:39,200 both re-engineering the systems around us to make them work 480 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:44,000 better for people but also bringing that like Artistry to 481 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,700 helping people feel differently and see themselves differently 482 00:23:46,700 --> 00:23:50,400 with each other differently. And so the more that we can do, 483 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,700 the better designing for transformation designing for 484 00:23:54,700 --> 00:23:59,600 Equity designing for Resilience and designing for 485 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,700 transformation. Those are words that repeat on 486 00:24:02,700 --> 00:24:05,600 ideals website and really are at the heart of the work that Shawn 487 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,700 is doing and i.org, I can't think of a better way to close 488 00:24:09,700 --> 00:24:12,800 out our conversation with your thoughts on the future Shawna. 489 00:24:12,900 --> 00:24:15,400 So thank you for joining us. Thanks so much for having me. 490 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,600 It's a nice to meet you. And thank you all for joining 491 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,400 in. This has been an incredible 492 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,500 episode of design, adjacent the podcast. 493 00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:27,300 We look at designs impact both here and abroad. 494 00:24:27,500 --> 00:24:30,400 Both today and tomorrow. Thank you for joining us with 495 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,200 our guests, Shawna carry CEO of Ideal dot-org. 496 00:24:34,500 --> 00:24:36,600 If you want to find out more information about their work, 497 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,000 please visit them and ideal dot-org. 498 00:24:39,300 --> 00:24:43,300 Thank you show notes for this episode will be available on AIG 499 00:24:43,300 --> 00:24:46,200 a.org. Please subscribe to our show on 500 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:50,600 anchor Apple, podcasts Google play Spotify or wherever you get 501 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,600 your podcast. Aiga is designer Jason podcasts 502 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,100 and its contents of the copyright of AIG CA the 503 00:24:58,100 --> 00:25:02,500 professional association for design All Rights, Reserved, any 504 00:25:02,500 --> 00:25:06,200 redistribution or reproduction of part or all of the contents 505 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,000 in any form is prohibited without aig's Express written 506 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,200 permission. My name is Li Xian zhuang until 507 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:13,800 next time.