1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,600 The distinction for between remote and distributed comes 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,000 from me, for two places one, my engineering background. 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,800 I don't like a lot of distributed systems and how to 4 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:11,200 make them resilient, but to just the importance of Words, which I 5 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:15,500 think are words, create reality and even the word remote and 6 00:00:15,508 --> 00:00:18,600 distributed, like if your remote, it implies that there's 7 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,300 some essential that you're far away from and work with so much 8 00:00:22,300 --> 00:00:24,200 about connection. You want to be close to your 9 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:25,500 colleagues. You want to be connected. 10 00:00:25,500 --> 00:00:26,800 You don't want to be remote from them. 11 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:34,100 Hello, and welcome to design, adjacent the podcast that talks 12 00:00:34,100 --> 00:00:36,600 about the Nexus of design both today. 13 00:00:36,700 --> 00:00:41,000 And tomorrow. I'm your host vdf Johnson and 14 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:46,600 today, our guest is an innovator, entrepreneur Champion 15 00:00:47,500 --> 00:00:51,600 coder and blogger. I am pleased to welcome to 16 00:00:51,608 --> 00:00:54,900 design adjacent none. Other than Matt mullenweg 17 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,700 founding developer of Wordpress. We open source software. 18 00:00:59,700 --> 00:01:02,500 You By more than 40% of the web today. 19 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:09,200 WordPress is a part of whom at is it's not something that you 20 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:11,000 cannot work on. WordPress, is a part of who he 21 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,000 is. The company is celebrated almost 22 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:19,200 20 years, the project touches a ton of people and that's an 23 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,900 understatement. He considers himself, very lucky 24 00:01:22,900 --> 00:01:26,500 to be able to work on a project of this nature and something he 25 00:01:26,500 --> 00:01:30,800 loves so much. Matt is the CEO of automatic, 26 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,500 which is now a force behind wordpress.com. 27 00:01:33,700 --> 00:01:38,500 Jetpack will Commerce in other products, including Tumblr. 28 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:44,300 The company's mission is simply and powerfully to make the web a 29 00:01:44,300 --> 00:01:46,100 better place. Net. 30 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,600 Welcome to the design adjacent. Thank you so much. 31 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,500 It's a pleasure to be here. Yeah, it's really incredible. 32 00:01:52,500 --> 00:01:55,700 When we think about it, looking back almost 20 years. 33 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,200 The sheer impact that WordPress has had. 34 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,600 So anyone who's listening to us, if you would take 10 sites, at 35 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:06,000 least four of them are built on WordPress when you start it. 36 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,300 Did you believe that you could have that potential reach with 37 00:02:09,300 --> 00:02:12,300 this wonderful idea of an open source way to build the web. 38 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,500 Now I think like many projects, it started with kind of a 39 00:02:16,500 --> 00:02:18,400 scratch, your own itch, right there. 40 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,200 It was very much. I was using other blogging 41 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:25,000 software out of it really fits and so myself and a few of the 42 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,100 like-minded individuals, including the co-founder of 43 00:02:27,100 --> 00:02:30,100 Wordpress, Mike little, the, a started just hacking on 44 00:02:30,100 --> 00:02:31,700 something. We thought would fit better. 45 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,500 And that has continued to help us. 46 00:02:34,500 --> 00:02:37,000 I think far beyond where any of us would have ever imagined. 47 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:39,700 But the nice thing is it gets renewed, right? 48 00:02:39,700 --> 00:02:43,800 So every time that I go to a WordPress event or hear a story, 49 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,500 From someone or someone tweets that meteorites an email. 50 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,500 It really reminds me. It takes me back to those very 51 00:02:49,500 --> 00:02:52,000 first days of like, oh, we're just trying to make something 52 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:53,800 that at least one person finds useful. 53 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,100 I remember the first time we connected a met. 54 00:02:57,100 --> 00:03:00,900 The first thing I could simply say to you is just thank you as 55 00:03:00,900 --> 00:03:04,900 a young marketing director and working for Community projects 56 00:03:04,900 --> 00:03:08,900 or small startups, you know, I remember kind of rolling my 57 00:03:08,900 --> 00:03:12,700 sleeves up and using Wordpress in the themes to take us from 0 58 00:03:12,700 --> 00:03:15,700 to 60. In ways that small startups, 59 00:03:15,700 --> 00:03:18,400 couldn't imagine or community art projects. 60 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,800 Couldn't imagine and you went from not having a web presence 61 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,800 to having something that was respectable credible and 62 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:29,200 impactful and I share that as a part of my career journey. 63 00:03:30,100 --> 00:03:33,100 I can actively remember those times using Wordpress and 64 00:03:33,100 --> 00:03:35,300 getting excited when I found out there beans or working with 65 00:03:35,300 --> 00:03:39,400 developers to bring It Forward. So but I want to go back a 66 00:03:39,408 --> 00:03:42,100 little further than just the start of Wordpress. 67 00:03:42,100 --> 00:03:45,400 I'm going to take you back to Houston where you're born and 68 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:49,200 raised and talk a bit about. Matt in high school. 69 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,800 I saw that you attended the Houston School of the Arts. 70 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,700 What was the goal that what was the vision for life? 71 00:03:57,900 --> 00:04:01,600 Wow, I really thought I was going to go into music. 72 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,500 Okay, at least, if not as a full-time job. 73 00:04:04,500 --> 00:04:09,000 Then as a night gig already has introduced, don't often had 74 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:10,800 other things to support themselves. 75 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,700 But yeah, I was very lucky being shoes to saxophone at a 76 00:04:14,700 --> 00:04:16,700 relatively young age. Okay. 77 00:04:16,700 --> 00:04:19,000 Justin had incredible both Public Schools. 78 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,200 I went to all public, Susan to the art school and just really 79 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,300 great like teachers and music education. 80 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,200 So Actually a few years ago. I started I just kind of went 81 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,600 back and thought of all the teachers that have been most 82 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,800 influential to me and I happen to the about page of my website. 83 00:04:35,900 --> 00:04:38,300 So am I got TT / about an interesting? 84 00:04:38,300 --> 00:04:40,400 Most of them ended up being my music teachers. 85 00:04:40,700 --> 00:04:43,100 All right count the impacts that I can still remember today. 86 00:04:43,700 --> 00:04:47,600 So kind of from third grade to through high school, you know 87 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:49,400 every day I'd have a couple hours. 88 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,200 It's really kind of a testament. We see the successes you've had 89 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:56,600 but to kind of had that link back to the teachers who helped 90 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:58,800 you along the way. Way and helped you think about 91 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,100 your approach to the world. So, you know, you move out of 92 00:05:02,100 --> 00:05:04,900 the school of the Performing Arts, right, which sometimes 93 00:05:04,900 --> 00:05:07,800 seems like an unlikely path but makes a lot of sense when you 94 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:09,900 kind of think about what you did next. 95 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,900 So from school performing arts University of Houston, right? 96 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,200 Yeah. I think what the other nice 97 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,600 thing is those teachers were also my first clients and 98 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:19,400 customers. Okay. 99 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:24,400 So all right way, what about the first build a computer for them 100 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,400 or a website for them? I mean far, When I was qualified 101 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,400 to do at the time, so remember, I this teacher named Bob Morgan. 102 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,100 He was also part of University of North Texas. 103 00:05:35,300 --> 00:05:37,300 Okay. He had me build their alumni 104 00:05:37,300 --> 00:05:41,500 website or my uncle worked for another High School, st. 105 00:05:41,500 --> 00:05:43,900 Thomas as a marketing director and he was like, can you redo 106 00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:46,600 the same time as website? So I got like some really great 107 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:50,200 opportunities to build things from the same teachers. 108 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,100 And yeah, it was one of those things were what you love and 109 00:05:54,100 --> 00:05:56,400 what you end up being really good at or maybe different. 110 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,800 So I was okay with music. My wasn't at the very top of the 111 00:05:59,808 --> 00:06:03,500 class or anything like that. But I was just I ended up 112 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,200 progressing really quickly getting pretty good at the tech 113 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,600 stuff out of relatively young age. 114 00:06:09,700 --> 00:06:12,900 So far why I went to University of Houston was to just say local 115 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,800 say closest family and my father had went there many years 116 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,900 before. But at the time it already felt 117 00:06:19,900 --> 00:06:22,400 like I was able to kind of support myself through building 118 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,400 websites and computers. And and that was really my 119 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,500 passion. And then if I stayed local I had 120 00:06:27,500 --> 00:06:30,300 a lot of gigs side plates in Big, Bang, gigs and Sir private 121 00:06:30,300 --> 00:06:32,200 cakes. And so just want to stay in that 122 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,600 community and I was kind of going to college as a check the 123 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,700 box take now billion, you know studying computer science. 124 00:06:37,700 --> 00:06:39,700 I didn't study any computer courses in college. 125 00:06:39,700 --> 00:06:43,400 So it was it was a time that I wish I could return to because 126 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:45,000 okay. It's a luxury to be able to 127 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,100 focus on learning as your full-time job. 128 00:06:48,100 --> 00:06:49,600 Always should have been my full-time job. 129 00:06:50,100 --> 00:06:52,500 When did you feel like you had to break through that? 130 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,100 You had found the space that you were passionate about and your 131 00:06:56,100 --> 00:06:58,100 skill sets. And Police were catching up but 132 00:06:58,100 --> 00:06:59,800 that passion. When did you feel like you had 133 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,500 that moment? It was definitely what I was 134 00:07:02,500 --> 00:07:03,900 able to pay rents. Okay. 135 00:07:03,900 --> 00:07:07,700 I own which was a big one and luckily and used to be Ramen 136 00:07:07,700 --> 00:07:09,700 profitable was pretty low. I think my rent was only four 137 00:07:09,700 --> 00:07:14,100 hundred twenty-five dollars, which was nice, but probably my 138 00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:16,700 breakthrough was this event. I went to called South by 139 00:07:16,700 --> 00:07:18,500 Southwest, which was called an awesome. 140 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:21,600 There was a designer. I was following named Jeffrey. 141 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,400 Zelman, who was a big Advocate web standards. 142 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,900 Also just did some of the coolest designs Fight scene 143 00:07:27,900 --> 00:07:30,700 online. So he was kind of my first like 144 00:07:31,100 --> 00:07:34,200 both designers but Educators around that. 145 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,500 He really shared as he learned which you know, through his blog 146 00:07:37,500 --> 00:07:40,000 which allowed me to follow on the journey with him and he 147 00:07:40,008 --> 00:07:41,500 posted he was going to be an Austin. 148 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,800 And at this conference I had never heard of but my sister 149 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,600 lived in Austin, so I had a place to stay and I had student 150 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:50,300 tickets. So I was able to get like a 151 00:07:50,300 --> 00:07:52,900 really inexpensive. Ticket was probably 18 is I 152 00:07:52,908 --> 00:07:56,000 think even for WordPress started and going to that conference 153 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,800 blew my mind, the Interactive part or the computer part of 154 00:08:00,100 --> 00:08:02,900 South by Southwest at the time, was probably just four or five 155 00:08:02,900 --> 00:08:05,300 hundred people is pretty small. Okay, and for just in the 156 00:08:05,300 --> 00:08:08,300 hallways, it's like the internet became real. 157 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,000 All these people who I followed online. 158 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,200 Usually their website. Logs, you know, a lot of things 159 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,400 to Jeffrey's opened are kozik krawczyk. 160 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:20,100 Who else are admire contact. She'll look like a lot of people 161 00:08:20,100 --> 00:08:21,300 were building the web at the time. 162 00:08:21,500 --> 00:08:24,100 We're all there in person. Okay, they're all really 163 00:08:24,100 --> 00:08:26,100 friendly. So they like, even I was a kid 164 00:08:26,100 --> 00:08:28,100 that no one had ever heard of. They would talk to me. 165 00:08:28,100 --> 00:08:30,600 And I ended up at dinner with some of that and we talked in 166 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:32,299 the holes and I follow them around. 167 00:08:32,700 --> 00:08:35,400 One of them tried to sneak me into an after-party with that 168 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,000 wasn't old enough to get into because I wasn't yet 21. 169 00:08:38,299 --> 00:08:40,500 So they were really, really friendly and nice. 170 00:08:40,500 --> 00:08:43,600 And so that I felt like I kind of meant my truck Houston. 171 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,200 I have a few people, right? Other super nerds like me that 172 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,700 for a part of the Linux User Group in the Wi-Fi, User Group, 173 00:08:49,700 --> 00:08:51,700 the Palm Pilot group in the website group, and we, all 174 00:08:51,700 --> 00:08:53,500 right, shake it together, like once a month. 175 00:08:53,500 --> 00:08:57,000 I was probably like 30 or 40 of us and here they are. 176 00:08:57,100 --> 00:08:59,400 Was 10 times that. And then I got the sense of San 177 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:01,600 Francisco, which was like the mecca where everyone eyes. 178 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:07,200 So you come to this conference, you go in and you're transformed 179 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:12,200 then what next? I go back to Houston. 180 00:09:12,500 --> 00:09:16,200 Okay, I'll do my bare minimum in college to get by, and then just 181 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,200 continue kind of spending. My real education was coming 182 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:20,900 online. You through books. 183 00:09:20,900 --> 00:09:23,200 And following the blog's, if some of the people I mentioned 184 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:28,500 and that was what led me to to both developing software more as 185 00:09:28,500 --> 00:09:31,000 I want to customize websites, more and more develop, sort of 186 00:09:31,008 --> 00:09:34,600 content management to manage larger websites, and then that 187 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,700 led me and blogging myself, which I started with 188 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,100 livejournal, the movable type. And B, 2, and B. 2 is, of 189 00:09:41,100 --> 00:09:42,900 course, what WordPress was based on price. 190 00:09:42,900 --> 00:09:47,000 A lot of it was just what I was doing and building myself build 191 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,600 on very client driven and very personally driven. 192 00:09:50,900 --> 00:09:54,400 Building yourself in the moment. So, you know, we skip ahead and 193 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,400 hand we talked about kind of the the presence of Wordpress Muller 194 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,500 40% of the web today. It's based on that. 195 00:10:02,500 --> 00:10:07,200 One of the things that the strikes me in our conversations 196 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:11,800 and in looking at what you're exploring today, is this simple 197 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:18,100 notion of pushing to make the web better more open and more 198 00:10:18,100 --> 00:10:21,400 diverse. And it seems that if you just 199 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,100 looking at your career Journey, think that's been a throughput 200 00:10:24,100 --> 00:10:27,900 all the way through, from the early blog conversations to 201 00:10:27,900 --> 00:10:29,700 Wordpress to. Even the work you're doing now 202 00:10:29,700 --> 00:10:34,100 through Tumblr, making the web a better more open space. 203 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,500 It's something that I think about a lot. 204 00:10:36,500 --> 00:10:39,300 And we encourage designers, to think about a lie. 205 00:10:39,700 --> 00:10:43,800 What thoughts do you have for how the design enable Community 206 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,200 can help? To build this promise of a 207 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,000 better more open, more diverse web. 208 00:10:50,100 --> 00:10:54,200 I think what really shaped me was the generosity of the 209 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,500 community is I was part of the music and Jazz community in 210 00:10:56,500 --> 00:11:01,800 Houston The Tech Community that I joined my teachers and so it 211 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,400 just always it's made it a really strong part of my role 212 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:10,000 view to say afford to be generous and you know kind of 213 00:11:10,900 --> 00:11:15,300 try to put out more than you take in and so I'm always 214 00:11:15,300 --> 00:11:18,300 encouraging professionals accomplished people of every 215 00:11:18,300 --> 00:11:22,000 field too. How can they pay afford right 216 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:23,200 now? It's all of us. 217 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,200 If we're at some peak of success. 218 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:26,800 A lot of folks who helped us along the way. 219 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:32,500 So, how can you Volunteer, teach donate things or just share your 220 00:11:32,500 --> 00:11:37,200 own learning process, you know, you can touch lives that people, 221 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,800 you might not even meet. It could be all over the world. 222 00:11:39,900 --> 00:11:41,700 Right? And like zelmans blog did for 223 00:11:41,700 --> 00:11:45,200 me, you would never anticipate that a kid in Houston would read 224 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,100 this, you know, Big Shot designer in New York and that 225 00:11:48,100 --> 00:11:51,100 would sort of set me down a path to be or WordPress. 226 00:11:51,100 --> 00:11:53,600 God created. So yeah, I would say the anyone 227 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:54,800 listening to this, if you're listening to this, you're 228 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,800 probably ahead of 99.9% of the world in terms of your 229 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,100 ridiculous. Said, so you can share that as 230 00:12:01,100 --> 00:12:02,800 much as possible. It's really powerful. 231 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,600 And so, also, thank you for doing things like this podcast. 232 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,500 I feel like that's part of it. Oh, no. 233 00:12:08,500 --> 00:12:10,800 Thank you for setting the example as well. 234 00:12:11,900 --> 00:12:16,300 You know, it's interesting when we talk about the ways in which 235 00:12:17,100 --> 00:12:18,700 we can reach Beyond where we are. 236 00:12:19,100 --> 00:12:21,900 And today's world has put a challenge on that notion of 237 00:12:21,900 --> 00:12:24,300 proximity that our world and our learning. 238 00:12:24,300 --> 00:12:26,600 And the way we work has to be limited to where we are. 239 00:12:27,500 --> 00:12:31,100 So, you know before we Talk a bit about the future of work. 240 00:12:31,100 --> 00:12:32,700 I love to ask you. These questions. 241 00:12:33,500 --> 00:12:35,700 Really simply. Where do you feel most 242 00:12:35,700 --> 00:12:39,500 productive? I'm a big believer in investing 243 00:12:39,500 --> 00:12:43,400 in your environment. Okay, order that's your mobile 244 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:47,500 environment or your kind of debt and so I try to have when I'm at 245 00:12:47,500 --> 00:12:52,200 home, I try to have objects on the desk, that inspire me. 246 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,900 I try to books nearby that I can pick up and flip through 247 00:12:54,900 --> 00:13:01,700 reminders leaders or designers or artists that I find exciting 248 00:13:01,700 --> 00:13:06,700 Arts is really key to me lighting, I try to handle so 249 00:13:06,700 --> 00:13:09,600 there's nice smells and then, you know, also investing in the 250 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,500 tools and you know, great A keyboard, Great Mouse. 251 00:13:12,500 --> 00:13:14,200 Great monitor, like, all these sorts of things. 252 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,000 I do the arm. Now, we're monitors on one of 253 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:21,200 these like articulating arm so I can, oh, nice around and have a 254 00:13:21,208 --> 00:13:24,400 lot of disk space. So I'm a huge believer in that 255 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,000 and I guess it goes through to a company as well. 256 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:31,200 Like, we provide new laptops to people every 18 months because 257 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,600 the old laptops break now, but just we want people to have the 258 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,700 very best tools as they Trail. Yeah. 259 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:41,500 When I'm on the road, what I try to think about is focus, And how 260 00:13:41,500 --> 00:13:44,800 do I remove distractions? Okay, and for me the best way to 261 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,800 do that is just actually headphones and music. 262 00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:52,200 I find that even if you can't control the environment, the 263 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,800 right music can really get you in a flow State and sometimes 264 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,900 I'll even listen to the same song or Same album on repeat for 265 00:13:57,900 --> 00:14:01,200 hours and hours. And for me, my biggest battle is 266 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,100 just battling distraction, and I actually feel like it's gotten 267 00:14:04,100 --> 00:14:07,700 harder, right? That's five years than it's ever 268 00:14:07,700 --> 00:14:10,900 been. And so I'm always looking for 269 00:14:10,900 --> 00:14:14,700 ways to essentially trick the distractible part of my mind. 270 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,700 Okay, you're right. Following pray to that 271 00:14:17,700 --> 00:14:22,200 notification or that right at a draw, out of the focus or Flow 272 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,800 State because it's so easy particularly as an executive, 273 00:14:25,900 --> 00:14:30,700 you know, with now 2000 colleagues to look at slack or I 274 00:14:30,700 --> 00:14:33,900 can make myself very busy and not get the most important 275 00:14:33,900 --> 00:14:36,200 things on my list. Done, right every day, but I 276 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,500 worked all day and I get positive reinforcement for. 277 00:14:38,900 --> 00:14:41,300 Responding to other people that contacted and quickly and 278 00:14:41,300 --> 00:14:43,100 everything. So it's really about just trying 279 00:14:43,100 --> 00:14:46,300 to make that time for the Deep work, which it kind of is the 280 00:14:46,300 --> 00:14:48,400 hard conversation just recently for colleague. 281 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,800 And I talked about moving away from a checklist to moving 282 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:55,100 towards an impact list. Hmm, and saying they're always 283 00:14:55,100 --> 00:14:57,500 things that I have on the checklist that I can do and I 284 00:14:57,500 --> 00:15:00,700 can check them off and I can feel good about that action. 285 00:15:01,900 --> 00:15:06,200 But they may not contribute to the impact that are trying and 286 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:07,400 kind of playing around with that. 287 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,600 You know, it's very easy, especially in the marketing 288 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:10,700 side. It's like I've done all these 289 00:15:10,700 --> 00:15:14,300 things. But have I really kind of done 290 00:15:14,300 --> 00:15:19,200 the work or the items that move me towards the impact and kind 291 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,700 of doing that refreshing that you may have 20 items on the 292 00:15:21,900 --> 00:15:23,900 checklist. Put you only have three on an 293 00:15:23,900 --> 00:15:27,500 impact. Yeah, it's so it's in a 294 00:15:27,508 --> 00:15:29,600 Continuum of that question. And you started going down that 295 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,700 path. Where do you feel the most 296 00:15:32,700 --> 00:15:37,600 creative? Mmm and claim that they don't 297 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,500 have are one in the same. Yeah, they yeah, it is sort of 298 00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:43,600 art. So I get really inspired in 299 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,500 museums. If I ever go to the Opera I take 300 00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:49,000 a notebook and I get tons of ideas. 301 00:15:49,300 --> 00:15:53,300 So just trying to I get probably most inspiration and creative 302 00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:58,100 from I did the juxtaposition of differing Fields, right? 303 00:15:58,500 --> 00:16:00,500 And so I love seeing artists that do that kind of combine 304 00:16:00,500 --> 00:16:01,900 things. I didn't expect. 305 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,500 And I just find my own mind. Turns over problems in a 306 00:16:06,508 --> 00:16:11,000 different way when I'm engaged with a live performance or 307 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,600 Museum, or just something that I kind of these, the soul bit. 308 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,700 I love the conversation at hand, the juxtaposition. 309 00:16:19,700 --> 00:16:22,800 I remember the first time I heard yo-yo Ma's project can 310 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,900 experiment with the Silk Road brought in all of these 311 00:16:26,900 --> 00:16:29,200 attributes. Ditions in ways that you didn't 312 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:33,900 imagine. And one of the musicians played 313 00:16:33,900 --> 00:16:39,400 kind of ancient flute, the other Wade, some string, instrument am 314 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,100 remembered. I never seen before they got 315 00:16:41,100 --> 00:16:44,500 bagpipe as well. Yeah, and the third artist was 316 00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:47,300 this incredible human beatbox, huh? 317 00:16:47,300 --> 00:16:50,100 So in this moment, I'm sitting there and completely blown away 318 00:16:50,100 --> 00:16:53,000 about this musical Jack's position and they went on a tour 319 00:16:53,300 --> 00:16:57,100 of the history of global music and with those three 320 00:16:57,100 --> 00:17:00,400 instruments. Which is kind of incredible in 321 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,600 that space. So when you know, we talked 322 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,700 about where we feel most productive and where Reese will 323 00:17:06,700 --> 00:17:09,300 most creative. And at the heart of that is kind 324 00:17:09,300 --> 00:17:11,400 of our thoughts about how we work. 325 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:18,200 And I know the New York Times noted you as really the champion 326 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:23,300 and patron saint in some ways of mobile working thinking of 327 00:17:23,300 --> 00:17:25,900 working differently outside of back of working from home. 328 00:17:25,900 --> 00:17:28,700 I love when you write up the distinction between between 329 00:17:28,700 --> 00:17:30,300 remote work and distributed work. 330 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,700 Could you talk a bit about that and your view because you're 331 00:17:33,700 --> 00:17:37,300 really been on the kind of Leading Edge of thinking about 332 00:17:37,300 --> 00:17:40,100 working from anywhere to create impact. 333 00:17:41,300 --> 00:17:43,700 Sure. Yeah, that the distinction for 334 00:17:43,700 --> 00:17:46,200 between remote and distributed comes for me, for two places 335 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,600 one, my engineering background as I don't like a lot of other 336 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,400 of distributed systems and how to make them resilient. 337 00:17:51,500 --> 00:17:55,000 But to just the importance of words, I think our words create 338 00:17:55,000 --> 00:18:01,100 reality and if even the word remote and distributed like if 339 00:18:01,100 --> 00:18:03,500 your remote it implies that there's some essential that 340 00:18:03,500 --> 00:18:07,300 you're far away from and work with so much about connection. 341 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:08,600 You want to be close to your colleagues. 342 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,700 You want to be connected. You don't want to be remote from 343 00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:13,900 them, right? So yeah, I don't feel like I 344 00:18:13,900 --> 00:18:16,000 would wake up the morning. Say like I want to be remote 345 00:18:16,100 --> 00:18:19,000 from my work, my colleagues. It seems like a punishment, 346 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,200 right? Yeah, I guess. 347 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,100 Let Larry is how he punish people with solitary confinement 348 00:18:24,100 --> 00:18:26,600 and things like that. So yeah, let's not do that. 349 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,000 Let's do the opposite. Let's be super connected but 350 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,200 distributed and I think it also has filled the organization away 351 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:36,000 where every node on the network every person, every part of it 352 00:18:36,100 --> 00:18:38,700 has an equal opportunity to contribute and to connect to all 353 00:18:38,700 --> 00:18:42,100 the other nodes. To me distribute is a great word 354 00:18:42,100 --> 00:18:45,200 for that. It also you know, I have my 355 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,400 podcast is called distributed, everything's real duster and 356 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:49,700 I've seen it adopted more and more. 357 00:18:49,900 --> 00:18:53,500 There's a longer word has more syllables, but I think that if 358 00:18:53,500 --> 00:18:55,800 organizations can consciously use it. 359 00:18:55,900 --> 00:18:58,900 It also will help them adopt the organizational structures, the 360 00:18:58,900 --> 00:19:01,500 communication Styles everything else, which they'll be more 361 00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:04,500 successful with in the long run. It's really clear. 362 00:19:04,500 --> 00:19:07,400 And in evening at how you've grown your organization that it 363 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,100 was intentional from the beginning, right? 364 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,000 That this is how you structure to move forward. 365 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,400 What advice do you have for organizations who have? 366 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:21,700 You know, whether the last 24 months and some not by choice, 367 00:19:21,700 --> 00:19:24,600 but more by force have moved into this space, but they 368 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,500 realize that this is the future. What advice do you have for 369 00:19:27,500 --> 00:19:31,500 those organizations? The first thing I recognize is 370 00:19:31,500 --> 00:19:33,600 that every person and every organization is really 371 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:34,700 different. Right? 372 00:19:34,900 --> 00:19:39,100 So my best advice would just be to keep experimenting. 373 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:43,400 I agree had this forced unplanned experiment. 374 00:19:43,500 --> 00:19:46,700 No one asked for but, right Ash. How much are we learn from it? 375 00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:51,600 And so whatever it is that you're doing, that feels like 376 00:19:51,900 --> 00:19:54,400 the way things have to be or the way you have to work and it's 377 00:19:54,408 --> 00:19:56,800 impossible to imagine the opposite, see if you could 378 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,400 engineer a month where you do the opposite. 379 00:19:59,900 --> 00:20:03,500 Okay, and for us, that also means we're thinking a lot about 380 00:20:03,500 --> 00:20:05,000 how to get together in person right now. 381 00:20:05,100 --> 00:20:07,900 Okay. Yeah, and hoping that, you know, 382 00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:09,200 there's a light at the end of the tunnel. 383 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,000 We're planning a lot of meetups, a lot of people getting together 384 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,400 and wondering at this. Going to be a commercial real 385 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,400 estate crash, which means we can get more collaboration spaces. 386 00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:20,800 On the planet or something. And so it's really just kind of 387 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,100 looking at what is the opposite of what you've been doing and 388 00:20:23,100 --> 00:20:25,400 take for granted and trying it out. 389 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,900 And then learning from what that opposite to this sort of 390 00:20:28,900 --> 00:20:33,700 reasoning via - a - like can look can teach you. 391 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,500 So, have you seen a boom in the way in which your teams are able 392 00:20:38,500 --> 00:20:42,600 to work with each other? In the last, you know, 24 393 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,600 months, or have you seen that because you walk were? 394 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,300 Because you are well equipped before this moment, right? 395 00:20:48,300 --> 00:20:50,800 So everyone was already, had the right equipment. 396 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,900 They had the right tools. They have the cultural evening, 397 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,700 you know, I will say that since the company started its gotten 398 00:20:57,700 --> 00:20:59,200 so much easier. Okay? 399 00:20:59,700 --> 00:21:00,900 Yeah. I just reread it company. 400 00:21:01,100 --> 00:21:03,800 I mean, we used to do know video meetings because all the tools 401 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:05,800 were so bad, right? Really part of the room. 402 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:07,700 We just didn't even bother, because it was so bad. 403 00:21:08,300 --> 00:21:11,500 I mean, we started the company using RC, which is like text 404 00:21:11,500 --> 00:21:13,800 chat. Okay, AOL Instant Messenger, 405 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,500 subscribe, like it was really kind of cuddle together. 406 00:21:16,500 --> 00:21:18,700 Probably together here, right? Yeah. 407 00:21:18,700 --> 00:21:21,000 We didn't have p 2 or internal blogging system. 408 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,700 Email was really bad. Like, everything was pretty 409 00:21:23,700 --> 00:21:25,900 rough. And what's been cool to me about 410 00:21:25,900 --> 00:21:30,200 the pandemic is how even the big tech companies are really 411 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,800 prioritized. Things like investing in better 412 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,700 webcams and better microphone or the computers, all the video 413 00:21:36,700 --> 00:21:39,900 tools, whether it's needs or hangouts, or whatever it is. 414 00:21:40,300 --> 00:21:42,600 Like Zoom has gotten a lot better teams. 415 00:21:43,100 --> 00:21:44,500 They're all pretty decent right now. 416 00:21:44,500 --> 00:21:47,800 So I love that. It's kind of reshaped all the 417 00:21:47,900 --> 00:21:50,100 technology companies roadmaps because it did really feel it. 418 00:21:50,100 --> 00:21:54,200 They were ignoring this entire space of like people, you know, 419 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,400 communicating view cameras and microphones with their 420 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,300 colleagues, right? What, what do you think is next 421 00:22:01,100 --> 00:22:04,700 and kind of an ear next as we look in 22 and 23. 422 00:22:04,700 --> 00:22:08,600 What do you think? Yeah, I actually think in that 423 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,300 Hardware side of things. We are entering a very exciting 424 00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:15,800 dock because all the companies are really working on it quite 425 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,000 well and we've gone to the point where a setup that used to cost 426 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,600 thousands of dollars. You can now get through a new 427 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,400 Macbook which has incredible stereo microphone said Elevate, 428 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,000 background noise, and portrait mode is now built into the 429 00:22:29,008 --> 00:22:31,100 cameras on phones and everything. 430 00:22:31,500 --> 00:22:34,200 So that to me is been kind of amazing and I'm looking forward 431 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,500 to seeing that trend. In you. 432 00:22:36,500 --> 00:22:41,600 I think the other thing that pretty excited about being. 433 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:46,100 Next is just people who've gone from working on the same place, 434 00:22:46,100 --> 00:22:48,900 right? To working the same way, but 435 00:22:48,900 --> 00:22:51,600 being in different places are starting to adopt a more 436 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:56,200 asynchronous work, which I would call embracing the constraints 437 00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,200 and the benefits of the medium of distribute work to unlock a 438 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:04,200 lot of flexibility and efficiency from how we work 439 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,600 together. So that's I think, Next big 440 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,100 trend is people working in a more asynchronous fashion. 441 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,500 So in that question, how does that shape your leadership as a 442 00:23:13,500 --> 00:23:17,200 leader is you start to feed see people to adopt that approach. 443 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,400 How does it change the way you lead? 444 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:25,000 I think that just myself but all managers and leaders 445 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:30,300 particularly in sort of the tech industry need to relearn how I 446 00:23:30,308 --> 00:23:32,300 do things. It's like learning to play a new 447 00:23:32,300 --> 00:23:33,900 instrument. I don't actually think 448 00:23:33,900 --> 00:23:39,000 distributed work is fully better or worse at and I'll run an 449 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:40,900 office every day. Everything that it's just really 450 00:23:40,900 --> 00:23:42,900 different. So, what worked for you when 451 00:23:42,900 --> 00:23:45,600 your team was all, you know, within 30 feet of each other. 452 00:23:45,700 --> 00:23:48,800 It's going to be different from when your team is not even 453 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,900 within 30 miles of each other. And when they all start working 454 00:23:51,900 --> 00:23:55,500 on different time zones, or even globally, you just have to learn 455 00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:58,200 new ways of communication of connecting with people of 456 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,700 getting folks, a line of driving urgency and speed. 457 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,900 It just like learning a new instrument, you know, so 458 00:24:05,300 --> 00:24:07,100 saxophones not better than flute or piano. 459 00:24:07,100 --> 00:24:10,600 They're just different. Your sex was not better. 460 00:24:12,500 --> 00:24:15,300 Well, herb also scary because if you've been successful in your 461 00:24:15,300 --> 00:24:18,700 career, especially for 10, 20, 30 years, you're probably really 462 00:24:18,700 --> 00:24:20,600 comfortable with your way of doing things and I learned 463 00:24:20,700 --> 00:24:23,200 Seeing that new thing. You're going to be bad for a 464 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,000 while and it's going to suck. It's like learning a new sport 465 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,400 learn especially when you snowboard it or something and I 466 00:24:28,408 --> 00:24:32,000 just embracing that embracing the discomfort and finding that 467 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,700 beginner's mind is just really key and we've all been forced to 468 00:24:36,700 --> 00:24:39,600 do it for a while now, right? I'm probably going to be some 469 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,400 version of this for a long time to come. 470 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,300 If not just because people have grown used to it. 471 00:24:43,300 --> 00:24:45,800 But yeah, that's the what I would advise. 472 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,700 I think that's really powerful and wonderful advice. 473 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:53,100 Take the we think about it, kind of leaning into The discomfort 474 00:24:53,100 --> 00:24:56,300 of the way in which we approach the world, you know, we tie has 475 00:24:56,300 --> 00:24:59,100 a little bit before about what role do. 476 00:24:59,100 --> 00:25:01,100 You think designers can play? I'm going to come back to that 477 00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:02,700 again. As you think about this what 478 00:25:02,700 --> 00:25:06,600 role do you think those who are skilled in design, you know, 479 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,900 whether it's 2D 3D exponential experience those who are skilled 480 00:25:10,900 --> 00:25:13,000 in design. What do you think they can offer 481 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,400 to helping us shape? This new world of work skilled 482 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,000 and design shaping the new world of work. 483 00:25:19,700 --> 00:25:22,400 It's hard to answer that only because I feel like design 484 00:25:22,500 --> 00:25:24,000 benefits. Everything it touches. 485 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,600 Yeah. I said, I don't know if it's 486 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:31,500 specific to the new world of work, but I'm excited about, as 487 00:25:31,500 --> 00:25:35,800 I mentioned this, the sort of user base like the daily users 488 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,300 of all these tools going exponentially, and likely going 489 00:25:39,300 --> 00:25:42,200 to increase a lot more companies. 490 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,200 Investing more in the tools, a both software and Hardware that 491 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,300 just creates a lot of market-driven forces to get. 492 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:55,000 You know, now there's not just 0 go to video conferencing, is 493 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,500 that like five really good ones and then those companies it when 494 00:25:58,500 --> 00:26:01,000 it's called, like Loom or loon or around or something like that 495 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,900 are actually innovating on that model where we're not just you 496 00:26:03,900 --> 00:26:07,400 know, Brady Bunch boxes, all talking to each other but it is 497 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,500 something a lot more Dynamic. Maybe it's easy to throw up a 498 00:26:10,508 --> 00:26:14,100 virtual whiteboard or I don't love these in this time because 499 00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:17,200 there's so much hype around it, but I'm not a big believer in 500 00:26:17,208 --> 00:26:18,400 The Meta verse. Okay. 501 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,200 I'm a huge believer in an augmented reality and talk a bit 502 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,000 about, right? We are is actually possible for 503 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,500 a meeting where everyone's on, Zoom, to be way better than when 504 00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:32,500 we were in person, right? And it's kind of hard to think 505 00:26:32,500 --> 00:26:35,400 about that because I love seeing people as well. 506 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,500 I guess I do get a lot of energy from being in a room with folks. 507 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,200 But when you think of what's enabled, like, for example, 508 00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:47,600 everyone's the same height on OK and zoom and so it's not like 509 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,400 you're naturally, we have. Natural built-in bias has to, 510 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:53,900 like maybe listen to taller people, more pay more attention 511 00:26:53,900 --> 00:26:56,200 to them. Everyone can be the same volume, 512 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,600 you know, things like I just coughed. 513 00:26:58,700 --> 00:27:01,700 I was able to mute and I'm not coughing on people. 514 00:27:01,700 --> 00:27:05,000 So that's really that. That's like not interrupting. 515 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,700 The audio flow of what's happening. 516 00:27:07,100 --> 00:27:09,800 I have colleagues who are like, you know, use Snapchat, filters. 517 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,000 And that, like, I don't have to put up makeup put on makeup in 518 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,000 the morning. Okay, just put our filter on my 519 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,500 camera and it does the equivalent. 520 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,100 So this is these are ways of augmenting reality. 521 00:27:19,500 --> 00:27:22,200 I think number two, I'd love that you just made the case for 522 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,700 why Zoom is better for our world that I love that a dead space. 523 00:27:26,700 --> 00:27:30,600 So augmented reality. I think as well about the 524 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,700 ability to quickly tie in items. Like how many times I've been on 525 00:27:34,700 --> 00:27:37,200 the zoom called where something comes up flow of Consciousness 526 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,600 and we can pull the image. We can pull the video, we can 527 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,100 drop things in a way. Yeah. 528 00:27:42,500 --> 00:27:44,200 It's a really good special for designers. 529 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,500 How often you screen share and how fast you can screen. 530 00:27:46,500 --> 00:27:49,300 Sure is a great indicator of how fluent. 531 00:27:49,500 --> 00:27:52,100 At the tools, right? And compare that to remember, 532 00:27:52,100 --> 00:27:55,100 trying to like plug-in. So the TV and a conference, your 533 00:27:55,100 --> 00:27:58,200 house, while you and you're looking for the dongle or you're 534 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,500 trying to like, put in the code to airplay. 535 00:28:00,500 --> 00:28:03,200 It was always a mess. And the Academy Award would 536 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,000 always go to your colleague for pretending. 537 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:06,700 They could use the system but not. 538 00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:11,600 Yeah, the moment you're right. Yeah, when you get good of that 539 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,300 online, it's amazing. And everyone can, by the way. 540 00:28:14,300 --> 00:28:17,300 I actually like that, you can look things up during a meeting 541 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,600 and or that you can Mute or go off. 542 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,600 That's you can a screen share really quickly. 543 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,300 Like and that we can all maybe put the same notes on our screen 544 00:28:27,300 --> 00:28:29,200 and be like taking notes simultaneously. 545 00:28:29,500 --> 00:28:33,100 These are ways that we can augment the reality of our 546 00:28:33,100 --> 00:28:35,100 meeting experience to make it more effective. 547 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,300 And I think that and I would say you in any way for being the 548 00:28:38,300 --> 00:28:40,000 first time. I've heard somebody say dongle 549 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,300 in 24 months. Yeah. 550 00:28:43,300 --> 00:28:45,500 Luckily we have about about those thought about that. 551 00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:47,400 But no, I think you're, I think you're right. 552 00:28:47,700 --> 00:28:55,100 So as we move For this kind of Promise of augmented reality, or 553 00:28:55,100 --> 00:28:56,700 an extension of our space in here. 554 00:28:57,300 --> 00:28:59,100 What do you feel is next around the corner. 555 00:28:59,100 --> 00:29:02,300 So we talked about kind of the meeting interface where some 556 00:29:02,300 --> 00:29:05,800 other potential possibilities for for augmented reality for 557 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:10,500 us, graphical augmented reality. But so, for our company 558 00:29:10,500 --> 00:29:13,500 automatic, okay, this is the biggest thing that being true 559 00:29:13,500 --> 00:29:18,100 leadership. It is unlocked is Around Talent, 560 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:19,400 okay. All right. 561 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,800 I would say both on the hiring side and on the retention side. 562 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,500 So one being able to tap into the global talent pool. 563 00:29:26,900 --> 00:29:29,300 There's, you know, Talent is equally distributed 564 00:29:29,300 --> 00:29:31,100 opportunities. Not right. 565 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,600 It doesn't matter where you happen to be born, where you 566 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:38,200 120, very and Lottery. Now with, pretty modest tool 567 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:39,700 holes and computers. You're on the internet and you 568 00:29:39,700 --> 00:29:42,500 can be part of a, you know, a company like automatic. 569 00:29:42,500 --> 00:29:45,400 That's right. L changing the internet and 570 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:46,600 Building Things, all this sort of stuff. 571 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,100 And we pay the same ranges regardless of geography. 572 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,100 So if you're doing the same work, she could same pain. 573 00:29:52,300 --> 00:29:55,400 It doesn't matter to me, where nice from, if you live, where 574 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:56,600 you wake up and go to sleep every night. 575 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,000 Like, that's all it's all about the work. 576 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:04,000 And so that has a lot of us. I think, to just give people 577 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,500 opportunities of buying Talent. That's not that's everywhere. 578 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,100 And then to I think the sort of autonomy in agency that 579 00:30:12,100 --> 00:30:14,300 distributed work gives people because a lot of control over 580 00:30:14,300 --> 00:30:18,200 their day their environment, how they build The workday and 581 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:19,400 ability to contribute to something. 582 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,900 Meaningful means our retention rates are sorry. 583 00:30:23,900 --> 00:30:28,200 I should reverse that or attrition rates are one quarter 584 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,000 to one fifth other companies in our field. 585 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,300 So that I just thinks makes for a really great culture over 586 00:30:35,300 --> 00:30:37,300 time. So one that you're able to bring 587 00:30:37,300 --> 00:30:40,200 in a true diversity, people not just from different places, but 588 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,900 actually living in different places and they're working 589 00:30:43,100 --> 00:30:46,200 alongside each other in a equal fashion because we're all have 590 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,000 the equal. Opportunity to contribute I work 591 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:53,200 online and then them staying longer in bed like that, 592 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,300 institutional knowledge, everything that builds up when 593 00:30:56,300 --> 00:31:00,400 you get one for 10 years, folks is really powerful and I now 594 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,100 have, you know, a good chunk of colleagues. 595 00:31:02,100 --> 00:31:03,500 I've been working with for 15 years. 596 00:31:03,500 --> 00:31:04,600 Now, I was gonna ask you about that. 597 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,000 Okay. How long was that? 598 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,600 Well teens, right. Yeah, just a lovable 599 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,900 communication and trust and everything when you're able to 600 00:31:10,900 --> 00:31:13,600 build that. IT professional relationship 601 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,100 over that amount of time is something I really really 602 00:31:16,100 --> 00:31:19,600 cherish and the only downside because people always ask me the 603 00:31:19,608 --> 00:31:22,100 downside is Ozzie. I just missed them. 604 00:31:22,300 --> 00:31:26,200 I wish I guarantee them a lot more and even pre covid, you 605 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:27,900 know, we could only really see each other a few times a year, 606 00:31:27,900 --> 00:31:30,200 logistically, but that's the one thing. 607 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,800 I really love the people I work with and I do wish I could spend 608 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,800 more time with them. I I love your fear quote in the 609 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:38,400 ink article that you had recently. 610 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,000 Bad, he said something really interesting about working 611 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,800 outside of the office and it's Basel our what we're talking 612 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:49,200 about here that it had quoting. You hear an incredible impact on 613 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,600 the individuals and ultimately empower the river to lead richer 614 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,900 lives. It leads them to be able to 615 00:31:56,900 --> 00:32:01,500 bring more creativity to their work, and their lives, to have a 616 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,900 kind of a powerful statement as a leader to kind of understand 617 00:32:04,900 --> 00:32:08,400 that those actions actually show up in people's lives and 618 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,400 different in meaningful ways. And so I think it's a testament, 619 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,100 especially if you talk about having such long tenure in a 620 00:32:16,100 --> 00:32:18,100 space that tends to be more disruptive. 621 00:32:18,100 --> 00:32:23,700 Lee Dynamic, right? Okay, and you know, automatics 622 00:32:23,700 --> 00:32:26,800 not for everyone either, right? So people might leave in their 623 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,500 first year. That's great because the folks 624 00:32:29,500 --> 00:32:31,800 who stick around tend to stick around longer longer. 625 00:32:32,100 --> 00:32:35,400 I do truly believe that if folks are more balanced than the rest 626 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,400 of their life heat. They're also going to be more 627 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,100 creative of work. And so to this end, a company 628 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,800 can provide an environment for them to create that balance. 629 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,100 We can't do it for them. Ultimately. 630 00:32:48,100 --> 00:32:50,600 People are their own boss of their lives. 631 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,200 If you can sort of create an environment that lived itself 632 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,500 towards giving people some more agency and control. 633 00:32:57,900 --> 00:33:02,200 I think it enables those issues. Unlocks a lot of time. 634 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,900 If nothing else, you know, think of the time save on commuting. 635 00:33:05,300 --> 00:33:07,300 Look at the time. Save on travel, think of the 636 00:33:07,300 --> 00:33:09,100 time. Like all these other things that 637 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,100 you know, were necessary in a pre-internet age, right? 638 00:33:13,100 --> 00:33:16,100 Kind of kept doing them 20 or 30 years longer after we needed to 639 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,000 so true. So I'm going to get personal to 640 00:33:20,008 --> 00:33:21,400 ask you about that. Balance. 641 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:26,800 So, you know, we both are pre-pandemic, run the planes, 642 00:33:26,900 --> 00:33:30,700 every day, and back and forth. And moving around, tell me about 643 00:33:30,700 --> 00:33:32,200 the role of Photography is clean. 644 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:36,000 Your life. Photography, was how I got 645 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,400 started publishing on the web. I thought it got started 646 00:33:40,700 --> 00:33:43,800 building websites for myself as a way to share my photos. 647 00:33:43,900 --> 00:33:45,800 Oh, wow. It was also definitely something 648 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,000 where digital photography because I kind of started in the 649 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,100 digital age, right got to do primarily on I was very freeing 650 00:33:52,100 --> 00:33:55,200 because just this idea that something went from scarce. 651 00:33:55,300 --> 00:33:57,600 You know, you had to pay your money Philip. 652 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,800 Every photo that abundant where, you know, I could essentially 653 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,600 take unlimited pictures, allowed me to take those tens of 654 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,199 thousands of bad photos, right? But let just starting to take a 655 00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:11,500 few good ones to get your Mastery, right? 656 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:16,900 The other thing is I think it also The camera was like very 657 00:34:16,900 --> 00:34:21,699 much a security blanket for me. Okay, has like a naturally shy 658 00:34:21,699 --> 00:34:25,100 person, but really wanted to connect with people when I would 659 00:34:25,100 --> 00:34:28,300 go into advanced or something like that. 660 00:34:28,300 --> 00:34:32,000 I would always have the camera and it became something I could 661 00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:34,600 one create a little bit of distance between me and the rest 662 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,300 of the folks, you know, the camera. 663 00:34:36,300 --> 00:34:37,699 It can be a little bit of a wall. 664 00:34:37,900 --> 00:34:41,300 But then also connection right now and like, capturing a fun 665 00:34:41,300 --> 00:34:43,600 photo someone and sharing them afterwards or sitting at the 666 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,199 people, it always gave. Me something to do something to 667 00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:48,300 talk about like a little totem. Alright. 668 00:34:48,300 --> 00:34:50,300 Broke the ice with with all the people there. 669 00:34:50,500 --> 00:34:54,199 So as just kind of a shy kid and probably still a shiny gold in 670 00:34:54,199 --> 00:34:56,600 some ways. It's a nice Icebreaker. 671 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,100 So, yeah, it's big influence on my life. 672 00:34:59,100 --> 00:35:01,000 That's why my usernames fotomat everywhere, right? 673 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,300 Tyler, Graham, quitter. It's still photo mat. 674 00:35:03,500 --> 00:35:06,800 I publish few photos, and I used to, but it's a big actually. 675 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,400 One of the resolutions I have this year is to get back to that 676 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,500 data that publishing and honestly, not just trying to 677 00:35:13,508 --> 00:35:16,000 post a good one. So I just Posting them just out 678 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,800 of still, I think I knew from our conversation for that. 679 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:20,300 You love that you love photography of. 680 00:35:20,300 --> 00:35:23,100 But currently it's interesting to hear how that Loops back in 681 00:35:23,100 --> 00:35:25,900 and reinforces. So here's the personal question. 682 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,800 Almost the last photo you took Oh, that's what I joke. 683 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:34,300 Well, I'll do this short and the easy answer which is I've been 684 00:35:34,300 --> 00:35:36,600 taking photos on my phone constantly now, that's okay. 685 00:35:36,700 --> 00:35:38,200 They use it as a way to do memory. 686 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:46,700 So the last actual last one. I took let's see was of oh I 687 00:35:46,700 --> 00:35:49,300 went for a run the other day with a couple friends. 688 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,800 So I took the picture of us about to do the run because I'm 689 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,800 training for a half marathon, but the last like series photo, 690 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,100 I took with the real. Amaura was I did a trip to 691 00:35:59,100 --> 00:36:04,100 Antarctica, but what actually plans in 2014 because a few 692 00:36:04,100 --> 00:36:07,700 months ago, there was a total solar eclipse over a penguin 693 00:36:07,700 --> 00:36:09,500 colony and the middle of Antarctica. 694 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,900 So yeah, it for seven years. I planned this trip and finally 695 00:36:12,900 --> 00:36:15,500 got to go on it. When it really exciting was able 696 00:36:15,500 --> 00:36:18,600 to take the t.g.i. Mavic, three, the Drone, which 697 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,100 is an incredible unlock as a photographer, or videographer to 698 00:36:22,100 --> 00:36:24,300 have a drone. And and I was shooting with a 699 00:36:24,308 --> 00:36:26,700 Nikon camera, which was really fun. 700 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:28,800 Okay. You're going to show this photo 701 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,500 with me, right? I do, well, I took a lot for 702 00:36:32,500 --> 00:36:34,400 this out. I don't know whether I'm down 703 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:35,000 for us. It's right. 704 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,700 Now. We're definitely like that. 705 00:36:37,700 --> 00:36:41,000 That is I would say my biggest thing I need to work on is like 706 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,100 getting a faster workflow for okay. 707 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,100 Going from 1000 photos to 100. I was actually inspired. 708 00:36:47,100 --> 00:36:49,200 There's there was a couple of professional photographers on 709 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,400 the trip including a really awesome Sports photographer from 710 00:36:53,100 --> 00:36:55,800 Norway. Okay, and his workflow is 711 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,100 literally taking I think he's Shot like 30,000 photos on the 712 00:36:59,108 --> 00:37:03,000 trip or I shot out and I thought that was a lot but I was really 713 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,700 inspired by how he was able to really go through them quite 714 00:37:05,700 --> 00:37:09,500 quickly and winnow it down from like 30 thousand to three 715 00:37:09,500 --> 00:37:12,500 thousand and three thousand two, one thousand the 1500. 716 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,600 He just would kind of loop through them. 717 00:37:15,900 --> 00:37:19,000 And I mean, he put some serious hours in it and he's definitely 718 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,600 done this his whole career, but it inspired me to be like, hey, 719 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,100 I need to stop making excuses for like getting their just a 720 00:37:25,100 --> 00:37:28,400 thousand. We have 1,000 acre interior. 721 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,500 So, you know, it's interesting. So, you talked about kind of 722 00:37:31,508 --> 00:37:34,700 Collections and how these things work together and parsley way 723 00:37:34,700 --> 00:37:36,800 through. I think it's also a metaphor for 724 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,600 you and thinking about your company's plural and like how 725 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:45,600 they kind of all work together. What has been your process of of 726 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,700 getting that Synergy between the companies you've created? 727 00:37:49,700 --> 00:37:52,500 And those, you've added in I'm thinking in particular. 728 00:37:52,500 --> 00:37:54,800 Most recently Tumblr. Like, how do you think about 729 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,600 that as a It's kind of an exercise. 730 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,700 You know, I wish I could say, we had some brilliant, you know, 731 00:38:01,900 --> 00:38:04,700 secret whiteboard where we mapped it all out, but it really 732 00:38:04,700 --> 00:38:08,100 just comes from listening. Okay, so our users and customers 733 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:13,200 and so, you know, 2013 2014 a lot of folks using Wordpress for 734 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,300 saying they wanted to do e-commerce and so we're like, 735 00:38:15,300 --> 00:38:16,000 okay. Okay. 736 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,600 Let's go check out e-commerce stuff and that led to our 737 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,400 acquisition of woocommerce, which now seven years later is 738 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:27,300 doing Thirty 1 billion of sales. Finger through Commerce. 739 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,300 It's probably going to be bigger than the rest of our company 740 00:38:29,300 --> 00:38:30,800 combined in the next year or two. 741 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,000 And that was really customer-driven. 742 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:37,000 So I'm just a hugest believer of, you know, I love it. 743 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:38,800 I think they called it getting out of the building or whatever. 744 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,500 It was. But just going and listening to 745 00:38:41,500 --> 00:38:45,400 folks doing some client meetings like tagging along. 746 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,000 I do customer support the whole company. 747 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:51,200 Does it at least once a year and I try to dip in, you know every 748 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:56,500 month or so just you know, as it like a secret shopper or Boss or 749 00:38:56,500 --> 00:38:57,800 whatever it's called like going in there. 750 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,400 Just answering whoever randomly comes in at what's been the most 751 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,700 refreshing surprised you've had doing that experience. 752 00:39:03,900 --> 00:39:06,000 I likewise. I love it, being able to come in 753 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,800 and actually engage in all different levels with your 754 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:13,200 customers stakeholders, but what recently better online, like 755 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,700 honestly when I show up to a client meeting just who I am 756 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,800 changes it and I'm not getting like really perfect 757 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,000 representation of what it's like to talk to a potential 758 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,900 advertisers or Tumblr or something but doing customer 759 00:39:24,900 --> 00:39:26,900 support. Just a chat pod. 760 00:39:26,900 --> 00:39:28,500 Right? Like no one knows me from Adam, 761 00:39:28,500 --> 00:39:33,200 which is really great. Biggest surprises, the ones that 762 00:39:33,500 --> 00:39:36,900 still happen and they drive me crazy, but I appreciate it is 763 00:39:36,900 --> 00:39:39,100 just finding something really simple. 764 00:39:39,500 --> 00:39:42,800 That's broken and a place. We haven't looked at in a really 765 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,700 long time. Wow, and it's kind of like, wow, 766 00:39:45,700 --> 00:39:48,800 we've got, you know, 200 people working on different things for 767 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,300 wordpress.com. But there's this one part of the 768 00:39:51,300 --> 00:39:53,400 sign up. That's broken that no one's 769 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,500 thought. Maybe I'd ever thought about an 770 00:39:55,500 --> 00:39:57,500 addiction. It's not even that hard might be 771 00:39:57,500 --> 00:39:59,100 one or two Engineers. They need to work on it. 772 00:39:59,100 --> 00:40:02,900 But it just kind of, we just the other ways, we're doing 773 00:40:02,900 --> 00:40:05,300 research, and design, and other things just didn't show this one 774 00:40:05,300 --> 00:40:07,300 thing. The other thing that also gives 775 00:40:07,300 --> 00:40:10,600 me a lot of energy from it eluded to it earlier, just being 776 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,100 inspired by how people using the tools, right? 777 00:40:13,100 --> 00:40:16,500 Like ultimately kind of what our company does is we make paint 778 00:40:16,500 --> 00:40:19,900 brushes and canvas has branding. Really what it's all about is 779 00:40:19,908 --> 00:40:25,000 what people create on top of it. And so I just love seeing, you 780 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:30,800 know, Is that people are using Wordpress and they won and 781 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,400 Pocket. Casts over tools to like, create 782 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,800 something I would imagine. So, you often describe yourself 783 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,500 still and I did when we started our conversation as a blogger 784 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:48,200 for all the other things, CEO, engineer, entrepreneur Jazz 785 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,600 saxophonist. You still always, come back to 786 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,600 consider yourself a blogger. Do you feel that that does it 787 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,500 feel really true and authentic for you to think of yourself as 788 00:40:57,500 --> 00:40:59,300 a blogger? Feels like, that's where you, 789 00:40:59,300 --> 00:41:01,300 you naturally Center, you come back to that. 790 00:41:02,700 --> 00:41:06,200 Yeah, and honestly when I think back to it the most impactful, 791 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,000 some of the most impactful things I've ever done both 792 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,300 inside the company and just on the internet have been sitting 793 00:41:12,300 --> 00:41:15,000 down at a keyboard. I'm getting something out of my 794 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:19,800 head and into the world through publishing and sometimes that's 795 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,200 been code. And but more often not as 796 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:27,300 actually been words in prose. And you know, those words in 797 00:41:27,300 --> 00:41:30,200 prose, can sometimes Inspire someone new to contribute or 798 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:34,200 Inspire someone to join the Open E bar, and, you know, I'll do 799 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,200 lots of things like this because I love reaching new audiences 800 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,300 and sort of evangelizing, Open Source and distributed work and 801 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,000 inviting people to work for automatic. 802 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,000 If what we talked about jazz them. 803 00:41:44,300 --> 00:41:49,300 All right, the written word is resonates and has ripples in a 804 00:41:49,308 --> 00:41:53,600 way that even the biggest podcasts don't know because it 805 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,800 could be someone searching for something on Google and they 806 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,500 come across something rotate years ago and that leads them 807 00:41:58,500 --> 00:42:01,400 down a rabbit hole. So this just becomes one of 808 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,800 these Is that you I think find your drive, like all humans are 809 00:42:04,808 --> 00:42:06,900 looking for connection to me. The coolest thing about the 810 00:42:06,900 --> 00:42:09,500 internet is that, whatever you're in Sue, there's other 811 00:42:09,500 --> 00:42:13,200 people that are into that and you can start to just buy sort 812 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:17,100 of, like, finding your way online searching for things, 813 00:42:17,300 --> 00:42:19,300 finding communities, finding great Publishers. 814 00:42:19,300 --> 00:42:23,200 And then what they share, you can really find like the 50 or 815 00:42:23,208 --> 00:42:27,000 100 people that are into exactly the things you are. 816 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,200 Just as passionate about quilting, Elvis quilts, or 817 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,100 whatever it is, or some other. Genre of music or whatever 818 00:42:33,100 --> 00:42:35,800 you're into, you can find that tribe and I think that's really 819 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:40,700 powerful. So, it's hard to believe we come 820 00:42:40,700 --> 00:42:44,400 to the end of our time, but I have this one question for you 821 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:48,600 to encourage those listening. How would you encourage people 822 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:52,400 to shape their impact set? How would you encourage people 823 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:54,900 to find the way that they drive impact? 824 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,900 I find it really helpful for myself to zoom out. 825 00:43:02,500 --> 00:43:05,000 Okay, and well, I'll just tell you something. 826 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,500 I do. I keep a goals file every year. 827 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,900 I have a going back to probably 2007 in the files. 828 00:43:10,900 --> 00:43:12,200 Both. We're like at the beginning of 829 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,300 the year. All right, my goals. 830 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,300 All right, great resolutions, are things like that, but I 831 00:43:17,308 --> 00:43:20,000 actually use it to record the year as it goes. 832 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,100 Okay, and so I basically have engineered hacks to like get 833 00:43:23,100 --> 00:43:24,900 myself opening this file regularly. 834 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:26,800 Okay. So if I walk, Movie, I'll put it 835 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,000 in the file. If I read a book. 836 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,500 I put it in the file and I try to put significant events and 837 00:43:31,500 --> 00:43:33,100 they're like, big life events things. 838 00:43:33,100 --> 00:43:37,700 I want to look back on in the coming years and remember like, 839 00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,800 oh that's what my sister bought the house or that's one way. 840 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,900 Kyle children was born this day or something like that so I can 841 00:43:43,900 --> 00:43:48,300 look back at like my goals Dash 2014 file and kind of like 842 00:43:48,300 --> 00:43:52,300 relive the year a little bit and that also gets me then reminded 843 00:43:52,300 --> 00:43:58,200 of the things I wrote so by A opening that file regularly, I, 844 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,700 you know, I can't help but sometimes glance over and be 845 00:44:00,708 --> 00:44:04,900 reminded of these bigger goals. So and then I modify them over 846 00:44:04,900 --> 00:44:07,900 the year and I'll change it. So to me it's not like written 847 00:44:07,900 --> 00:44:11,600 in stone, but it's meant to be a really Dynamic document that it 848 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:15,400 really evolved over the year. And I'll put personal goals. 849 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,400 I'll put business goals financial goals. 850 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,800 Just kind of everything, it's a real mix Max, and it's just an 851 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:22,400 unstructured. I do it in simple notes. 852 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:27,000 So it's just an uncertain time a tile but that is just Perfect. 853 00:44:27,100 --> 00:44:29,600 Kind of amounts. Is it perfect thing for me to 854 00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:33,600 return to that reminds me of like, you know, in my more 855 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:37,400 contemplative moments or what I'm, you know, talking with 856 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,700 friends and asking them what they think I should do, or what 857 00:44:39,700 --> 00:44:41,600 I need to focus on or what I need to work on. 858 00:44:41,900 --> 00:44:45,500 I can be reminded of that kind of perspective, which is outside 859 00:44:45,500 --> 00:44:48,600 the day-to-day because more than ever, like I mentioned before. 860 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:52,100 It's very easy for me to lock, be lost in day-to-day work, 861 00:44:52,100 --> 00:44:54,800 right? And lose sites, the bigger 862 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,700 things, so, I really need reminders like that. 863 00:44:57,700 --> 00:45:00,100 And it's a text file that yearly text file has been really 864 00:45:00,100 --> 00:45:04,700 helpful for me. Wow, that's a great way to close 865 00:45:04,700 --> 00:45:10,700 out our conversation today with innovator, engineer coder 866 00:45:10,700 --> 00:45:15,300 blogger and really kind of authentic leader here. 867 00:45:15,300 --> 00:45:17,700 I run the things that I appreciate that when we talk is 868 00:45:17,700 --> 00:45:22,100 just the time that you take to reflect on where you are in the 869 00:45:22,100 --> 00:45:24,700 world around you and how that impacts those. 870 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,400 I thank you so much for joining us and in sharing with our 871 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,000 designer Jason audience. Thank you very much. 872 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:34,300 Inviting me, looking forward to connect again in the future and 873 00:45:34,300 --> 00:45:35,900 thank you. Also, for all the work edgy 874 00:45:35,900 --> 00:45:37,700 ideas. I gets very powerful 875 00:45:37,700 --> 00:45:40,600 organization. Well, thank you, good sir, and 876 00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,800 we will catch up in person in the near future. 877 00:45:43,900 --> 00:45:47,600 We'll see today. So thank you all for joining 878 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:51,500 this episode of design adjacent. We invite you back will next 879 00:45:51,500 --> 00:45:53,800 time, we'll continue our conversations and looking at 880 00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:57,900 design and its impact on the world around us both today and 881 00:45:57,900 --> 00:46:01,100 into tomorrow. Thank you, Jonah. 882 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,100 This episode will be available on AIG a.org. 883 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,000 Please subscribe to our show on anchor. 884 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:11,000 Apple, podcasts Google play Spotify or wherever you get your 885 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,200 podcast. Aiga is designed adjacent 886 00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:18,400 podcasts and its contents by the copyright of aiga, the 887 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:22,800 professional association for design All Rights Reserved, any 888 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,500 redistribution or reproduction of part or all of the contents 889 00:46:26,500 --> 00:46:30,200 in any form is prohibited without aig's Express written 890 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,500 permission. My name is Li Shan Wang until 891 00:46:33,500 --> 00:46:34,100 next time.