The distinction for between remote and distributed comes
from me, for two places one, my engineering background.
I don't like a lot of distributed systems and how to
make them resilient, but to just the importance of Words, which I
think are words, create reality and even the word remote and
distributed, like if your remote, it implies that there's
some essential that you're far away from and work with so much
about connection. You want to be close to your
colleagues. You want to be connected.
You don't want to be remote from them.
Hello, and welcome to design, adjacent the podcast that talks
about the Nexus of design both today.
And tomorrow. I'm your host vdf Johnson and
today, our guest is an innovator, entrepreneur Champion
coder and blogger. I am pleased to welcome to
design adjacent none. Other than Matt mullenweg
founding developer of Wordpress. We open source software.
You By more than 40% of the web today.
WordPress is a part of whom at is it's not something that you
cannot work on. WordPress, is a part of who he
is. The company is celebrated almost
20 years, the project touches a ton of people and that's an
understatement. He considers himself, very lucky
to be able to work on a project of this nature and something he
loves so much. Matt is the CEO of automatic,
which is now a force behind wordpress.com.
Jetpack will Commerce in other products, including Tumblr.
The company's mission is simply and powerfully to make the web a
better place. Net.
Welcome to the design adjacent. Thank you so much.
It's a pleasure to be here. Yeah, it's really incredible.
When we think about it, looking back almost 20 years.
The sheer impact that WordPress has had.
So anyone who's listening to us, if you would take 10 sites, at
least four of them are built on WordPress when you start it.
Did you believe that you could have that potential reach with
this wonderful idea of an open source way to build the web.
Now I think like many projects, it started with kind of a
scratch, your own itch, right there.
It was very much. I was using other blogging
software out of it really fits and so myself and a few of the
like-minded individuals, including the co-founder of
Wordpress, Mike little, the, a started just hacking on
something. We thought would fit better.
And that has continued to help us.
I think far beyond where any of us would have ever imagined.
But the nice thing is it gets renewed, right?
So every time that I go to a WordPress event or hear a story,
From someone or someone tweets that meteorites an email.
It really reminds me. It takes me back to those very
first days of like, oh, we're just trying to make something
that at least one person finds useful.
I remember the first time we connected a met.
The first thing I could simply say to you is just thank you as
a young marketing director and working for Community projects
or small startups, you know, I remember kind of rolling my
sleeves up and using Wordpress in the themes to take us from 0
to 60. In ways that small startups,
couldn't imagine or community art projects.
Couldn't imagine and you went from not having a web presence
to having something that was respectable credible and
impactful and I share that as a part of my career journey.
I can actively remember those times using Wordpress and
getting excited when I found out there beans or working with
developers to bring It Forward. So but I want to go back a
little further than just the start of Wordpress.
I'm going to take you back to Houston where you're born and
raised and talk a bit about. Matt in high school.
I saw that you attended the Houston School of the Arts.
What was the goal that what was the vision for life?
Wow, I really thought I was going to go into music.
Okay, at least, if not as a full-time job.
Then as a night gig already has introduced, don't often had
other things to support themselves.
But yeah, I was very lucky being shoes to saxophone at a
relatively young age. Okay.
Justin had incredible both Public Schools.
I went to all public, Susan to the art school and just really
great like teachers and music education.
So Actually a few years ago. I started I just kind of went
back and thought of all the teachers that have been most
influential to me and I happen to the about page of my website.
So am I got TT / about an interesting?
Most of them ended up being my music teachers.
All right count the impacts that I can still remember today.
So kind of from third grade to through high school, you know
every day I'd have a couple hours.
It's really kind of a testament. We see the successes you've had
but to kind of had that link back to the teachers who helped
you along the way. Way and helped you think about
your approach to the world. So, you know, you move out of
the school of the Performing Arts, right, which sometimes
seems like an unlikely path but makes a lot of sense when you
kind of think about what you did next.
So from school performing arts University of Houston, right?
Yeah. I think what the other nice
thing is those teachers were also my first clients and
customers. Okay.
So all right way, what about the first build a computer for them
or a website for them? I mean far, When I was qualified
to do at the time, so remember, I this teacher named Bob Morgan.
He was also part of University of North Texas.
Okay. He had me build their alumni
website or my uncle worked for another High School, st.
Thomas as a marketing director and he was like, can you redo
the same time as website? So I got like some really great
opportunities to build things from the same teachers.
And yeah, it was one of those things were what you love and
what you end up being really good at or maybe different.
So I was okay with music. My wasn't at the very top of the
class or anything like that. But I was just I ended up
progressing really quickly getting pretty good at the tech
stuff out of relatively young age.
So far why I went to University of Houston was to just say local
say closest family and my father had went there many years
before. But at the time it already felt
like I was able to kind of support myself through building
websites and computers. And and that was really my
passion. And then if I stayed local I had
a lot of gigs side plates in Big, Bang, gigs and Sir private
cakes. And so just want to stay in that
community and I was kind of going to college as a check the
box take now billion, you know studying computer science.
I didn't study any computer courses in college.
So it was it was a time that I wish I could return to because
okay. It's a luxury to be able to
focus on learning as your full-time job.
Always should have been my full-time job.
When did you feel like you had to break through that?
You had found the space that you were passionate about and your
skill sets. And Police were catching up but
that passion. When did you feel like you had
that moment? It was definitely what I was
able to pay rents. Okay.
I own which was a big one and luckily and used to be Ramen
profitable was pretty low. I think my rent was only four
hundred twenty-five dollars, which was nice, but probably my
breakthrough was this event. I went to called South by
Southwest, which was called an awesome.
There was a designer. I was following named Jeffrey.
Zelman, who was a big Advocate web standards.
Also just did some of the coolest designs Fight scene
online. So he was kind of my first like
both designers but Educators around that.
He really shared as he learned which you know, through his blog
which allowed me to follow on the journey with him and he
posted he was going to be an Austin.
And at this conference I had never heard of but my sister
lived in Austin, so I had a place to stay and I had student
tickets. So I was able to get like a
really inexpensive. Ticket was probably 18 is I
think even for WordPress started and going to that conference
blew my mind, the Interactive part or the computer part of
South by Southwest at the time, was probably just four or five
hundred people is pretty small. Okay, and for just in the
hallways, it's like the internet became real.
All these people who I followed online.
Usually their website. Logs, you know, a lot of things
to Jeffrey's opened are kozik krawczyk.
Who else are admire contact. She'll look like a lot of people
were building the web at the time.
We're all there in person. Okay, they're all really
friendly. So they like, even I was a kid
that no one had ever heard of. They would talk to me.
And I ended up at dinner with some of that and we talked in
the holes and I follow them around.
One of them tried to sneak me into an after-party with that
wasn't old enough to get into because I wasn't yet 21.
So they were really, really friendly and nice.
And so that I felt like I kind of meant my truck Houston.
I have a few people, right? Other super nerds like me that
for a part of the Linux User Group in the Wi-Fi, User Group,
the Palm Pilot group in the website group, and we, all
right, shake it together, like once a month.
I was probably like 30 or 40 of us and here they are.
Was 10 times that. And then I got the sense of San
Francisco, which was like the mecca where everyone eyes.
So you come to this conference, you go in and you're transformed
then what next? I go back to Houston.
Okay, I'll do my bare minimum in college to get by, and then just
continue kind of spending. My real education was coming
online. You through books.
And following the blog's, if some of the people I mentioned
and that was what led me to to both developing software more as
I want to customize websites, more and more develop, sort of
content management to manage larger websites, and then that
led me and blogging myself, which I started with
livejournal, the movable type. And B, 2, and B. 2 is, of
course, what WordPress was based on price.
A lot of it was just what I was doing and building myself build
on very client driven and very personally driven.
Building yourself in the moment. So, you know, we skip ahead and
hand we talked about kind of the the presence of Wordpress Muller
40% of the web today. It's based on that.
One of the things that the strikes me in our conversations
and in looking at what you're exploring today, is this simple
notion of pushing to make the web better more open and more
diverse. And it seems that if you just
looking at your career Journey, think that's been a throughput
all the way through, from the early blog conversations to
Wordpress to. Even the work you're doing now
through Tumblr, making the web a better more open space.
It's something that I think about a lot.
And we encourage designers, to think about a lie.
What thoughts do you have for how the design enable Community
can help? To build this promise of a
better more open, more diverse web.
I think what really shaped me was the generosity of the
community is I was part of the music and Jazz community in
Houston The Tech Community that I joined my teachers and so it
just always it's made it a really strong part of my role
view to say afford to be generous and you know kind of
try to put out more than you take in and so I'm always
encouraging professionals accomplished people of every
field too. How can they pay afford right
now? It's all of us.
If we're at some peak of success.
A lot of folks who helped us along the way.
So, how can you Volunteer, teach donate things or just share your
own learning process, you know, you can touch lives that people,
you might not even meet. It could be all over the world.
Right? And like zelmans blog did for
me, you would never anticipate that a kid in Houston would read
this, you know, Big Shot designer in New York and that
would sort of set me down a path to be or WordPress.
God created. So yeah, I would say the anyone
listening to this, if you're listening to this, you're
probably ahead of 99.9% of the world in terms of your
ridiculous. Said, so you can share that as
much as possible. It's really powerful.
And so, also, thank you for doing things like this podcast.
I feel like that's part of it. Oh, no.
Thank you for setting the example as well.
You know, it's interesting when we talk about the ways in which
we can reach Beyond where we are.
And today's world has put a challenge on that notion of
proximity that our world and our learning.
And the way we work has to be limited to where we are.
So, you know before we Talk a bit about the future of work.
I love to ask you. These questions.
Really simply. Where do you feel most
productive? I'm a big believer in investing
in your environment. Okay, order that's your mobile
environment or your kind of debt and so I try to have when I'm at
home, I try to have objects on the desk, that inspire me.
I try to books nearby that I can pick up and flip through
reminders leaders or designers or artists that I find exciting
Arts is really key to me lighting, I try to handle so
there's nice smells and then, you know, also investing in the
tools and you know, great A keyboard, Great Mouse.
Great monitor, like, all these sorts of things.
I do the arm. Now, we're monitors on one of
these like articulating arm so I can, oh, nice around and have a
lot of disk space. So I'm a huge believer in that
and I guess it goes through to a company as well.
Like, we provide new laptops to people every 18 months because
the old laptops break now, but just we want people to have the
very best tools as they Trail. Yeah.
When I'm on the road, what I try to think about is focus, And how
do I remove distractions? Okay, and for me the best way to
do that is just actually headphones and music.
I find that even if you can't control the environment, the
right music can really get you in a flow State and sometimes
I'll even listen to the same song or Same album on repeat for
hours and hours. And for me, my biggest battle is
just battling distraction, and I actually feel like it's gotten
harder, right? That's five years than it's ever
been. And so I'm always looking for
ways to essentially trick the distractible part of my mind.
Okay, you're right. Following pray to that
notification or that right at a draw, out of the focus or Flow
State because it's so easy particularly as an executive,
you know, with now 2000 colleagues to look at slack or I
can make myself very busy and not get the most important
things on my list. Done, right every day, but I
worked all day and I get positive reinforcement for.
Responding to other people that contacted and quickly and
everything. So it's really about just trying
to make that time for the Deep work, which it kind of is the
hard conversation just recently for colleague.
And I talked about moving away from a checklist to moving
towards an impact list. Hmm, and saying they're always
things that I have on the checklist that I can do and I
can check them off and I can feel good about that action.
But they may not contribute to the impact that are trying and
kind of playing around with that.
You know, it's very easy, especially in the marketing
side. It's like I've done all these
things. But have I really kind of done
the work or the items that move me towards the impact and kind
of doing that refreshing that you may have 20 items on the
checklist. Put you only have three on an
impact. Yeah, it's so it's in a
Continuum of that question. And you started going down that
path. Where do you feel the most
creative? Mmm and claim that they don't
have are one in the same. Yeah, they yeah, it is sort of
art. So I get really inspired in
museums. If I ever go to the Opera I take
a notebook and I get tons of ideas.
So just trying to I get probably most inspiration and creative
from I did the juxtaposition of differing Fields, right?
And so I love seeing artists that do that kind of combine
things. I didn't expect.
And I just find my own mind. Turns over problems in a
different way when I'm engaged with a live performance or
Museum, or just something that I kind of these, the soul bit.
I love the conversation at hand, the juxtaposition.
I remember the first time I heard yo-yo Ma's project can
experiment with the Silk Road brought in all of these
attributes. Ditions in ways that you didn't
imagine. And one of the musicians played
kind of ancient flute, the other Wade, some string, instrument am
remembered. I never seen before they got
bagpipe as well. Yeah, and the third artist was
this incredible human beatbox, huh?
So in this moment, I'm sitting there and completely blown away
about this musical Jack's position and they went on a tour
of the history of global music and with those three
instruments. Which is kind of incredible in
that space. So when you know, we talked
about where we feel most productive and where Reese will
most creative. And at the heart of that is kind
of our thoughts about how we work.
And I know the New York Times noted you as really the champion
and patron saint in some ways of mobile working thinking of
working differently outside of back of working from home.
I love when you write up the distinction between between
remote work and distributed work.
Could you talk a bit about that and your view because you're
really been on the kind of Leading Edge of thinking about
working from anywhere to create impact.
Sure. Yeah, that the distinction for
between remote and distributed comes for me, for two places
one, my engineering background as I don't like a lot of other
of distributed systems and how to make them resilient.
But to just the importance of words, I think our words create
reality and if even the word remote and distributed like if
your remote it implies that there's some essential that
you're far away from and work with so much about connection.
You want to be close to your colleagues.
You want to be connected. You don't want to be remote from
them, right? So yeah, I don't feel like I
would wake up the morning. Say like I want to be remote
from my work, my colleagues. It seems like a punishment,
right? Yeah, I guess.
Let Larry is how he punish people with solitary confinement
and things like that. So yeah, let's not do that.
Let's do the opposite. Let's be super connected but
distributed and I think it also has filled the organization away
where every node on the network every person, every part of it
has an equal opportunity to contribute and to connect to all
the other nodes. To me distribute is a great word
for that. It also you know, I have my
podcast is called distributed, everything's real duster and
I've seen it adopted more and more.
There's a longer word has more syllables, but I think that if
organizations can consciously use it.
It also will help them adopt the organizational structures, the
communication Styles everything else, which they'll be more
successful with in the long run. It's really clear.
And in evening at how you've grown your organization that it
was intentional from the beginning, right?
That this is how you structure to move forward.
What advice do you have for organizations who have?
You know, whether the last 24 months and some not by choice,
but more by force have moved into this space, but they
realize that this is the future. What advice do you have for
those organizations? The first thing I recognize is
that every person and every organization is really
different. Right?
So my best advice would just be to keep experimenting.
I agree had this forced unplanned experiment.
No one asked for but, right Ash. How much are we learn from it?
And so whatever it is that you're doing, that feels like
the way things have to be or the way you have to work and it's
impossible to imagine the opposite, see if you could
engineer a month where you do the opposite.
Okay, and for us, that also means we're thinking a lot about
how to get together in person right now.
Okay. Yeah, and hoping that, you know,
there's a light at the end of the tunnel.
We're planning a lot of meetups, a lot of people getting together
and wondering at this. Going to be a commercial real
estate crash, which means we can get more collaboration spaces.
On the planet or something. And so it's really just kind of
looking at what is the opposite of what you've been doing and
take for granted and trying it out.
And then learning from what that opposite to this sort of
reasoning via - a - like can look can teach you.
So, have you seen a boom in the way in which your teams are able
to work with each other? In the last, you know, 24
months, or have you seen that because you walk were?
Because you are well equipped before this moment, right?
So everyone was already, had the right equipment.
They had the right tools. They have the cultural evening,
you know, I will say that since the company started its gotten
so much easier. Okay?
Yeah. I just reread it company.
I mean, we used to do know video meetings because all the tools
were so bad, right? Really part of the room.
We just didn't even bother, because it was so bad.
I mean, we started the company using RC, which is like text
chat. Okay, AOL Instant Messenger,
subscribe, like it was really kind of cuddle together.
Probably together here, right? Yeah.
We didn't have p 2 or internal blogging system.
Email was really bad. Like, everything was pretty
rough. And what's been cool to me about
the pandemic is how even the big tech companies are really
prioritized. Things like investing in better
webcams and better microphone or the computers, all the video
tools, whether it's needs or hangouts, or whatever it is.
Like Zoom has gotten a lot better teams.
They're all pretty decent right now.
So I love that. It's kind of reshaped all the
technology companies roadmaps because it did really feel it.
They were ignoring this entire space of like people, you know,
communicating view cameras and microphones with their
colleagues, right? What, what do you think is next
and kind of an ear next as we look in 22 and 23.
What do you think? Yeah, I actually think in that
Hardware side of things. We are entering a very exciting
dock because all the companies are really working on it quite
well and we've gone to the point where a setup that used to cost
thousands of dollars. You can now get through a new
Macbook which has incredible stereo microphone said Elevate,
background noise, and portrait mode is now built into the
cameras on phones and everything.
So that to me is been kind of amazing and I'm looking forward
to seeing that trend. In you.
I think the other thing that pretty excited about being.
Next is just people who've gone from working on the same place,
right? To working the same way, but
being in different places are starting to adopt a more
asynchronous work, which I would call embracing the constraints
and the benefits of the medium of distribute work to unlock a
lot of flexibility and efficiency from how we work
together. So that's I think, Next big
trend is people working in a more asynchronous fashion.
So in that question, how does that shape your leadership as a
leader is you start to feed see people to adopt that approach.
How does it change the way you lead?
I think that just myself but all managers and leaders
particularly in sort of the tech industry need to relearn how I
do things. It's like learning to play a new
instrument. I don't actually think
distributed work is fully better or worse at and I'll run an
office every day. Everything that it's just really
different. So, what worked for you when
your team was all, you know, within 30 feet of each other.
It's going to be different from when your team is not even
within 30 miles of each other. And when they all start working
on different time zones, or even globally, you just have to learn
new ways of communication of connecting with people of
getting folks, a line of driving urgency and speed.
It just like learning a new instrument, you know, so
saxophones not better than flute or piano.
They're just different. Your sex was not better.
Well, herb also scary because if you've been successful in your
career, especially for 10, 20, 30 years, you're probably really
comfortable with your way of doing things and I learned
Seeing that new thing. You're going to be bad for a
while and it's going to suck. It's like learning a new sport
learn especially when you snowboard it or something and I
just embracing that embracing the discomfort and finding that
beginner's mind is just really key and we've all been forced to
do it for a while now, right? I'm probably going to be some
version of this for a long time to come.
If not just because people have grown used to it.
But yeah, that's the what I would advise.
I think that's really powerful and wonderful advice.
Take the we think about it, kind of leaning into The discomfort
of the way in which we approach the world, you know, we tie has
a little bit before about what role do.
You think designers can play? I'm going to come back to that
again. As you think about this what
role do you think those who are skilled in design, you know,
whether it's 2D 3D exponential experience those who are skilled
in design. What do you think they can offer
to helping us shape? This new world of work skilled
and design shaping the new world of work.
It's hard to answer that only because I feel like design
benefits. Everything it touches.
Yeah. I said, I don't know if it's
specific to the new world of work, but I'm excited about, as
I mentioned this, the sort of user base like the daily users
of all these tools going exponentially, and likely going
to increase a lot more companies.
Investing more in the tools, a both software and Hardware that
just creates a lot of market-driven forces to get.
You know, now there's not just 0 go to video conferencing, is
that like five really good ones and then those companies it when
it's called, like Loom or loon or around or something like that
are actually innovating on that model where we're not just you
know, Brady Bunch boxes, all talking to each other but it is
something a lot more Dynamic. Maybe it's easy to throw up a
virtual whiteboard or I don't love these in this time because
there's so much hype around it, but I'm not a big believer in
The Meta verse. Okay.
I'm a huge believer in an augmented reality and talk a bit
about, right? We are is actually possible for
a meeting where everyone's on, Zoom, to be way better than when
we were in person, right? And it's kind of hard to think
about that because I love seeing people as well.
I guess I do get a lot of energy from being in a room with folks.
But when you think of what's enabled, like, for example,
everyone's the same height on OK and zoom and so it's not like
you're naturally, we have. Natural built-in bias has to,
like maybe listen to taller people, more pay more attention
to them. Everyone can be the same volume,
you know, things like I just coughed.
I was able to mute and I'm not coughing on people.
So that's really that. That's like not interrupting.
The audio flow of what's happening.
I have colleagues who are like, you know, use Snapchat, filters.
And that, like, I don't have to put up makeup put on makeup in
the morning. Okay, just put our filter on my
camera and it does the equivalent.
So this is these are ways of augmenting reality.
I think number two, I'd love that you just made the case for
why Zoom is better for our world that I love that a dead space.
So augmented reality. I think as well about the
ability to quickly tie in items. Like how many times I've been on
the zoom called where something comes up flow of Consciousness
and we can pull the image. We can pull the video, we can
drop things in a way. Yeah.
It's a really good special for designers.
How often you screen share and how fast you can screen.
Sure is a great indicator of how fluent.
At the tools, right? And compare that to remember,
trying to like plug-in. So the TV and a conference, your
house, while you and you're looking for the dongle or you're
trying to like, put in the code to airplay.
It was always a mess. And the Academy Award would
always go to your colleague for pretending.
They could use the system but not.
Yeah, the moment you're right. Yeah, when you get good of that
online, it's amazing. And everyone can, by the way.
I actually like that, you can look things up during a meeting
and or that you can Mute or go off.
That's you can a screen share really quickly.
Like and that we can all maybe put the same notes on our screen
and be like taking notes simultaneously.
These are ways that we can augment the reality of our
meeting experience to make it more effective.
And I think that and I would say you in any way for being the
first time. I've heard somebody say dongle
in 24 months. Yeah.
Luckily we have about about those thought about that.
But no, I think you're, I think you're right.
So as we move For this kind of Promise of augmented reality, or
an extension of our space in here.
What do you feel is next around the corner.
So we talked about kind of the meeting interface where some
other potential possibilities for for augmented reality for
us, graphical augmented reality. But so, for our company
automatic, okay, this is the biggest thing that being true
leadership. It is unlocked is Around Talent,
okay. All right.
I would say both on the hiring side and on the retention side.
So one being able to tap into the global talent pool.
There's, you know, Talent is equally distributed
opportunities. Not right.
It doesn't matter where you happen to be born, where you
120, very and Lottery. Now with, pretty modest tool
holes and computers. You're on the internet and you
can be part of a, you know, a company like automatic.
That's right. L changing the internet and
Building Things, all this sort of stuff.
And we pay the same ranges regardless of geography.
So if you're doing the same work, she could same pain.
It doesn't matter to me, where nice from, if you live, where
you wake up and go to sleep every night.
Like, that's all it's all about the work.
And so that has a lot of us. I think, to just give people
opportunities of buying Talent. That's not that's everywhere.
And then to I think the sort of autonomy in agency that
distributed work gives people because a lot of control over
their day their environment, how they build The workday and
ability to contribute to something.
Meaningful means our retention rates are sorry.
I should reverse that or attrition rates are one quarter
to one fifth other companies in our field.
So that I just thinks makes for a really great culture over
time. So one that you're able to bring
in a true diversity, people not just from different places, but
actually living in different places and they're working
alongside each other in a equal fashion because we're all have
the equal. Opportunity to contribute I work
online and then them staying longer in bed like that,
institutional knowledge, everything that builds up when
you get one for 10 years, folks is really powerful and I now
have, you know, a good chunk of colleagues.
I've been working with for 15 years.
Now, I was gonna ask you about that.
Okay. How long was that?
Well teens, right. Yeah, just a lovable
communication and trust and everything when you're able to
build that. IT professional relationship
over that amount of time is something I really really
cherish and the only downside because people always ask me the
downside is Ozzie. I just missed them.
I wish I guarantee them a lot more and even pre covid, you
know, we could only really see each other a few times a year,
logistically, but that's the one thing.
I really love the people I work with and I do wish I could spend
more time with them. I I love your fear quote in the
ink article that you had recently.
Bad, he said something really interesting about working
outside of the office and it's Basel our what we're talking
about here that it had quoting. You hear an incredible impact on
the individuals and ultimately empower the river to lead richer
lives. It leads them to be able to
bring more creativity to their work, and their lives, to have a
kind of a powerful statement as a leader to kind of understand
that those actions actually show up in people's lives and
different in meaningful ways. And so I think it's a testament,
especially if you talk about having such long tenure in a
space that tends to be more disruptive.
Lee Dynamic, right? Okay, and you know, automatics
not for everyone either, right? So people might leave in their
first year. That's great because the folks
who stick around tend to stick around longer longer.
I do truly believe that if folks are more balanced than the rest
of their life heat. They're also going to be more
creative of work. And so to this end, a company
can provide an environment for them to create that balance.
We can't do it for them. Ultimately.
People are their own boss of their lives.
If you can sort of create an environment that lived itself
towards giving people some more agency and control.
I think it enables those issues. Unlocks a lot of time.
If nothing else, you know, think of the time save on commuting.
Look at the time. Save on travel, think of the
time. Like all these other things that
you know, were necessary in a pre-internet age, right?
Kind of kept doing them 20 or 30 years longer after we needed to
so true. So I'm going to get personal to
ask you about that. Balance.
So, you know, we both are pre-pandemic, run the planes,
every day, and back and forth. And moving around, tell me about
the role of Photography is clean.
Your life. Photography, was how I got
started publishing on the web. I thought it got started
building websites for myself as a way to share my photos.
Oh, wow. It was also definitely something
where digital photography because I kind of started in the
digital age, right got to do primarily on I was very freeing
because just this idea that something went from scarce.
You know, you had to pay your money Philip.
Every photo that abundant where, you know, I could essentially
take unlimited pictures, allowed me to take those tens of
thousands of bad photos, right? But let just starting to take a
few good ones to get your Mastery, right?
The other thing is I think it also The camera was like very
much a security blanket for me. Okay, has like a naturally shy
person, but really wanted to connect with people when I would
go into advanced or something like that.
I would always have the camera and it became something I could
one create a little bit of distance between me and the rest
of the folks, you know, the camera.
It can be a little bit of a wall.
But then also connection right now and like, capturing a fun
photo someone and sharing them afterwards or sitting at the
people, it always gave. Me something to do something to
talk about like a little totem. Alright.
Broke the ice with with all the people there.
So as just kind of a shy kid and probably still a shiny gold in
some ways. It's a nice Icebreaker.
So, yeah, it's big influence on my life.
That's why my usernames fotomat everywhere, right?
Tyler, Graham, quitter. It's still photo mat.
I publish few photos, and I used to, but it's a big actually.
One of the resolutions I have this year is to get back to that
data that publishing and honestly, not just trying to
post a good one. So I just Posting them just out
of still, I think I knew from our conversation for that.
You love that you love photography of.
But currently it's interesting to hear how that Loops back in
and reinforces. So here's the personal question.
Almost the last photo you took Oh, that's what I joke.
Well, I'll do this short and the easy answer which is I've been
taking photos on my phone constantly now, that's okay.
They use it as a way to do memory.
So the last actual last one. I took let's see was of oh I
went for a run the other day with a couple friends.
So I took the picture of us about to do the run because I'm
training for a half marathon, but the last like series photo,
I took with the real. Amaura was I did a trip to
Antarctica, but what actually plans in 2014 because a few
months ago, there was a total solar eclipse over a penguin
colony and the middle of Antarctica.
So yeah, it for seven years. I planned this trip and finally
got to go on it. When it really exciting was able
to take the t.g.i. Mavic, three, the Drone, which
is an incredible unlock as a photographer, or videographer to
have a drone. And and I was shooting with a
Nikon camera, which was really fun.
Okay. You're going to show this photo
with me, right? I do, well, I took a lot for
this out. I don't know whether I'm down
for us. It's right.
Now. We're definitely like that.
That is I would say my biggest thing I need to work on is like
getting a faster workflow for okay.
Going from 1000 photos to 100. I was actually inspired.
There's there was a couple of professional photographers on
the trip including a really awesome Sports photographer from
Norway. Okay, and his workflow is
literally taking I think he's Shot like 30,000 photos on the
trip or I shot out and I thought that was a lot but I was really
inspired by how he was able to really go through them quite
quickly and winnow it down from like 30 thousand to three
thousand and three thousand two, one thousand the 1500.
He just would kind of loop through them.
And I mean, he put some serious hours in it and he's definitely
done this his whole career, but it inspired me to be like, hey,
I need to stop making excuses for like getting their just a
thousand. We have 1,000 acre interior.
So, you know, it's interesting. So, you talked about kind of
Collections and how these things work together and parsley way
through. I think it's also a metaphor for
you and thinking about your company's plural and like how
they kind of all work together. What has been your process of of
getting that Synergy between the companies you've created?
And those, you've added in I'm thinking in particular.
Most recently Tumblr. Like, how do you think about
that as a It's kind of an exercise.
You know, I wish I could say, we had some brilliant, you know,
secret whiteboard where we mapped it all out, but it really
just comes from listening. Okay, so our users and customers
and so, you know, 2013 2014 a lot of folks using Wordpress for
saying they wanted to do e-commerce and so we're like,
okay. Okay.
Let's go check out e-commerce stuff and that led to our
acquisition of woocommerce, which now seven years later is
doing Thirty 1 billion of sales. Finger through Commerce.
It's probably going to be bigger than the rest of our company
combined in the next year or two.
And that was really customer-driven.
So I'm just a hugest believer of, you know, I love it.
I think they called it getting out of the building or whatever.
It was. But just going and listening to
folks doing some client meetings like tagging along.
I do customer support the whole company.
Does it at least once a year and I try to dip in, you know every
month or so just you know, as it like a secret shopper or Boss or
whatever it's called like going in there.
Just answering whoever randomly comes in at what's been the most
refreshing surprised you've had doing that experience.
I likewise. I love it, being able to come in
and actually engage in all different levels with your
customers stakeholders, but what recently better online, like
honestly when I show up to a client meeting just who I am
changes it and I'm not getting like really perfect
representation of what it's like to talk to a potential
advertisers or Tumblr or something but doing customer
support. Just a chat pod.
Right? Like no one knows me from Adam,
which is really great. Biggest surprises, the ones that
still happen and they drive me crazy, but I appreciate it is
just finding something really simple.
That's broken and a place. We haven't looked at in a really
long time. Wow, and it's kind of like, wow,
we've got, you know, 200 people working on different things for
wordpress.com. But there's this one part of the
sign up. That's broken that no one's
thought. Maybe I'd ever thought about an
addiction. It's not even that hard might be
one or two Engineers. They need to work on it.
But it just kind of, we just the other ways, we're doing
research, and design, and other things just didn't show this one
thing. The other thing that also gives
me a lot of energy from it eluded to it earlier, just being
inspired by how people using the tools, right?
Like ultimately kind of what our company does is we make paint
brushes and canvas has branding. Really what it's all about is
what people create on top of it. And so I just love seeing, you
know, Is that people are using Wordpress and they won and
Pocket. Casts over tools to like, create
something I would imagine. So, you often describe yourself
still and I did when we started our conversation as a blogger
for all the other things, CEO, engineer, entrepreneur Jazz
saxophonist. You still always, come back to
consider yourself a blogger. Do you feel that that does it
feel really true and authentic for you to think of yourself as
a blogger? Feels like, that's where you,
you naturally Center, you come back to that.
Yeah, and honestly when I think back to it the most impactful,
some of the most impactful things I've ever done both
inside the company and just on the internet have been sitting
down at a keyboard. I'm getting something out of my
head and into the world through publishing and sometimes that's
been code. And but more often not as
actually been words in prose. And you know, those words in
prose, can sometimes Inspire someone new to contribute or
Inspire someone to join the Open E bar, and, you know, I'll do
lots of things like this because I love reaching new audiences
and sort of evangelizing, Open Source and distributed work and
inviting people to work for automatic.
If what we talked about jazz them.
All right, the written word is resonates and has ripples in a
way that even the biggest podcasts don't know because it
could be someone searching for something on Google and they
come across something rotate years ago and that leads them
down a rabbit hole. So this just becomes one of
these Is that you I think find your drive, like all humans are
looking for connection to me. The coolest thing about the
internet is that, whatever you're in Sue, there's other
people that are into that and you can start to just buy sort
of, like, finding your way online searching for things,
finding communities, finding great Publishers.
And then what they share, you can really find like the 50 or
100 people that are into exactly the things you are.
Just as passionate about quilting, Elvis quilts, or
whatever it is, or some other. Genre of music or whatever
you're into, you can find that tribe and I think that's really
powerful. So, it's hard to believe we come
to the end of our time, but I have this one question for you
to encourage those listening. How would you encourage people
to shape their impact set? How would you encourage people
to find the way that they drive impact?
I find it really helpful for myself to zoom out.
Okay, and well, I'll just tell you something.
I do. I keep a goals file every year.
I have a going back to probably 2007 in the files.
Both. We're like at the beginning of
the year. All right, my goals.
All right, great resolutions, are things like that, but I
actually use it to record the year as it goes.
Okay, and so I basically have engineered hacks to like get
myself opening this file regularly.
Okay. So if I walk, Movie, I'll put it
in the file. If I read a book.
I put it in the file and I try to put significant events and
they're like, big life events things.
I want to look back on in the coming years and remember like,
oh that's what my sister bought the house or that's one way.
Kyle children was born this day or something like that so I can
look back at like my goals Dash 2014 file and kind of like
relive the year a little bit and that also gets me then reminded
of the things I wrote so by A opening that file regularly, I,
you know, I can't help but sometimes glance over and be
reminded of these bigger goals. So and then I modify them over
the year and I'll change it. So to me it's not like written
in stone, but it's meant to be a really Dynamic document that it
really evolved over the year. And I'll put personal goals.
I'll put business goals financial goals.
Just kind of everything, it's a real mix Max, and it's just an
unstructured. I do it in simple notes.
So it's just an uncertain time a tile but that is just Perfect.
Kind of amounts. Is it perfect thing for me to
return to that reminds me of like, you know, in my more
contemplative moments or what I'm, you know, talking with
friends and asking them what they think I should do, or what
I need to focus on or what I need to work on.
I can be reminded of that kind of perspective, which is outside
the day-to-day because more than ever, like I mentioned before.
It's very easy for me to lock, be lost in day-to-day work,
right? And lose sites, the bigger
things, so, I really need reminders like that.
And it's a text file that yearly text file has been really
helpful for me. Wow, that's a great way to close
out our conversation today with innovator, engineer coder
blogger and really kind of authentic leader here.
I run the things that I appreciate that when we talk is
just the time that you take to reflect on where you are in the
world around you and how that impacts those.
I thank you so much for joining us and in sharing with our
designer Jason audience. Thank you very much.
Inviting me, looking forward to connect again in the future and
thank you. Also, for all the work edgy
ideas. I gets very powerful
organization. Well, thank you, good sir, and
we will catch up in person in the near future.
We'll see today. So thank you all for joining
this episode of design adjacent. We invite you back will next
time, we'll continue our conversations and looking at
design and its impact on the world around us both today and
into tomorrow. Thank you, Jonah.
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