Hello and welcome to another episode of the AIGA Design
Podcast. We are now in Season 11.
My name is Li Shawn Huang Co, Executive Director of Learning
and Programs here at AIGA, the professional association for
Design. Hello everyone, I'm Julia
Donatello, Design Competitions and Event Manager at AIGA.
So this season on the show, we are exploring the theme of Eyes
on design. That's also the overarching
theme of AIG as 2026 programming season, which includes this
show, which you can find wherever you get podcasts or you
can watch the video version on YouTube.
It also includes our upcoming design conference and our
Creatives and Residents program, which we'll hear more about as
the year goes on. This seasons theme is inspired
by the legacy of the acclaimed AIG Ion design publication,
which ran from 2015 to 2022, challenging our community to
look deeper, connect more broadly, and think further about
the future of design. This season we are dedicating it
to a new era of design discourse by critically analyzing the
present, bridging disciplinary divides and boldly facing the
future through these three eyes. The connecting eye.
Connecting design with other disciplines.
The critical eye, examining what we do as designers, but also
using design as a way to look at the world through a critical
eye. And then also the future eye,
looking forward at the future to see how design is shaping the
future, but also looking at how technology and other forces are
changing our design practice today.
So in this episode, we are pleased to welcome our guest,
Robin Landa, who is a distinguished professor at Keene
University and a globally recognized expert in creativity,
advertising and branding. And last year, Julia and I had
the opportunity to present Robin with the 2025 Steven Heller
Prize for Cultural Commentary. And Robin is also, I'm not sure
if I got the count right, but you're the author of 25 books.
It says 25 on your LinkedIn but I know you have some new books
coming out too. So where are we on the count
now? I'm not sure.
I think it's 27. OK, 27, so time to update our
profiles and we'll update that on the podcast show notes as
well. But thanks for joining us today,
Robin. It's my pleasure.
I'm honored. Thank you so much for inviting
me. Let's flashback to the beginning
of your journey. You started designing clothing
at a young age for yourself and for your Barbie dolls.
What inspired you to get into design?
You really do your research. I I've always loved to create.
As a child, I drew constantly landscapes, cityscapes, imagined
worlds. I sketched people.
I was utterly absorbed in creative pursuits, whether it
was art or dancing and designing.
But the only three-dimensional discipline that truly captivated
me was fashion. And I did cut up whatever I
could find in in our house, much to my mother's dismay, whether
it was clothing or socks or clothes to, to make fashion for
Barbie. I think I I really like the idea
of shaping form around the human body.
It was structural, it was storytelling, and it was
identity. Interestingly, as a child, you
know, all at once and looking back, I realized that I was
drawn to design because design builds worlds.
And I still am fascinated by world building, whether it's in
graphic design, digital design, film, storytelling, and whether
it's on paper or in fabric, film, wherever.
And honestly, I still fantasize about designing fashion one day.
Maybe when I retire. That's amazing.
Yeah. You know, I'd love to learn more
about how you also got into writing so many books.
And we have some questions about that coming up, but maybe a good
way to book and our conversation or to frame our conversation
with your origin story. And maybe the most recent thing
is that you have a new book that's coming out or has come
out already, Branding as a Cultural Force, and then yet
another book coming out later this year.
But maybe let's start with Branding as a Cultural force.
Can you give our listeners a little teaser about that book
and how it's filling a gap, maybe compared to some of the
other writing that you've done? You know, branding is a cultural
force argues that brands aren't just commercial entities
anymore. They're cultural actors.
They shape values, they influence behavior, they
construct culture. For decades, branding was about
differentiation and positioning, and those attributes still
matter. But it, it's really, the
conversation has changed and we're now in a moment where the
brand's impact on our planet, on public discourse, on equity, on
inclusion, that's not peripheral, that's central.
And so in this book, I'm asking a bigger question and how do you
design branding? Although I kind of answer that
too, but I'm asking what is a brand responsible for once it
has power? How can they use that power
ethically? How can they give back to
culture? That's just the culture that
sustains them. And here's the practical
reality. Brands spend an enormous amount
of money. Yeah.
On advertising, on content, on experiences.
So the question becomes, why not direct some of that investment
back into the communities and the culture that sustained them?
So I interviewed, forgive my French, Gaetong du Pelu, who is
the chief creative officer of Marcel Agency in Paris.
And he put it this way. With power comes rights and
responsibilities. Brands have earned the right to
participate in culture. We gave them that right, but
that comes with a responsibility to positively contribute to it,
not just extract from it. And the book is grounded in real
examples. Brands that are doing well,
brands that are doing this. I'm looking at how storytelling,
visual identity and advertising can move from persuasion to
participation and act actively, build something in the
communities that they serve. So the shift in scale is from
really from transaction to participate, participation from
extraction to contribution. That's what makes the book
different. Yeah, thank you for sharing that
big picture. It just reminds me of like early
in my career, I worked at a creative agency in New York and
one of the first accounts I got to work on was with Dove and on
their True Beauty campaign, which has been going on for for
decades now. And, you know, we just played
one small part in that. But just like, you know, for me,
that's the immediate example that comes to mind of like a
brand that is literally selling soap but is also trying to shift
the conversations around beauty standards and all of that.
And yeah, just very tangible in that sense, right?
It's like more than just the product itself.
It's really like trying to tell a story and shift the culture in
that sense. Exactly, exactly.
They do. They did some social listening
and and I I think Lee Sean, you're exactly right.
They they shifted the conversation.
And I remember that when this campaign came out, it was very
much like only them starting this conversation.
So it was like they were able to very much be the leaders of this
conversation at that time and still building the the branding
on, on, on those principles, which is great.
Yeah. You're right, Julia.
They, they actually took a risk that that paid off tremendously
for them, for the category. They they, they really were risk
takers and Mavericks in that sense and and did a good thing.
Yeah, that's awesome. So Robin, you just updated us
that now 27 books written so far, which is incredible.
And we know that Carnegie Foundation named you as one of
the great teachers of our time and you shaped generations of
design designers through your work so far.
So I wanted to hear a little bit from you.
How did the writing become an an important aspect of your
practice? What was, you know, the spark
when you started writing? And also, if you have a specific
creative process that you follow when you start writing a new
book And when you look back, if you think about your very first
book, which now, if you can remind us which one was your
first book, how, how do you feel like you you've evolved since
the first book to now? I'm going to be very practical
in my answer at the start. Writing in the beginning was a
practical reason, a way to get promoted.
So I'm an academic and, and, and design is a relatively new
discipline in academia. The people, the faculty who sit
on committees, the administrators don't really
understand it that well. You have to constantly explain
what you do. But they know what a book is,
they know what a journal article is, right?
And so rather than trying to explain why this design that I
did was in an exhibit or why this design that I did won an
award, it was much easier to just say, well, here's this book
that I wrote and that that was a path to promotion for me.
And, and I do like to write it. It's an extension I saw in the
beginning. There's an extension of my
teaching of something that I wanted to like.
How do I explain this to students?
What how do I get them to know what I know?
How do I get them to love what I love?
And and so in the beginning, it was an extension of that.
So I began be building, began be building frameworks on the page.
But I, I went through, I don't think anybody knows this.
So that I went through an experimental program in New York
City public schools for gifted children and they decided that
they didn't need to teach you how to write.
Yeah, they, it was, it was do your own thing.
And so I went through all these programs for the gifted in
middle school. And but I was I got out, I was
in college at 16 and still didn't know how to write.
And so by the time I got to Graduate School, I was starting
to teach myself how to write. And you ask about my first book,
which is called an Introduction to design.
It was about two-dimensional design.
I, I, I, I, I cringe. I mean, it was.
I was basically trying to contribute something that I
loved about design. But what started out as a
necessity became an identity. That's beautiful.
I love that. So you're basically taught
yourself how to write and also fell in love with that, right?
So it's part of who you are. Yeah, it became part of I love
making, I love creating. And so it became.
Besides art and design and dancing, writing became part of
that skill set. I'm going to use this
opportunity to actually ask a personal question for myself on
this is like, does it get easier?
I mean, I know you've done like 27 books now.
Is it still like, you know, when you're starting the blank page
for the draft of a new book, is it still like, wow, this is like
you're starting a marathon? Or is it just like, OK, after,
you know, a dozen or so, you're like, OK, like, you know that
the drill. That's a great question because
my co-author Megan D who I'm working with kind of asked a
similar question and yeah, it's that it's the 10,000 hour
Malcolm Gladwell theory, right? And once I I taught myself to
write better, it became easier. Once I realized that you really
have to write, act in the active voice, avoid the passive voice.
That made it easier. And I absolutely don't wait for
inspiration. I don't know, you know, I mean,
you're both too, I hate to say this, you're both too young to
to know the the idea of thinking with a pencil in your hand.
Now it's a stylus or whatever. I'm.
Old enough that they taught me cursive.
OK, OK, so, but thinking with a pencil in your hand, it's it's
kind of what I do with writing. I'm I'm thinking as I'm going,
It's in the process. So I'm not waiting.
I'm doing and I forgot who said it.
There's no design, there's only redesign, there's no writing,
there's only rewriting. So you know you have to go back.
So I just do it. But I love it now.
I didn't love it. Now I love it.
And is the pencil for you like literal or metaphorical?
Like are you starting your first?
Drafts, but OK. No, now you're tight.
Yeah. And actually, a neuroscientist
told me that your hands take up so much part of your brain that
it actually helps you think when you're typing or or writing
rather than just using. Yeah, that's a great way to
frame that, you know, because I'm also a musician.
And sometimes it's like, OK, like sometimes I will get
inspiration for a song and then, like, be able to write it in a,
you know, a few minutes and it just all comes out.
But other times I'm just like tinkering on the piano, you
know, like improvising over chords and.
And it comes from like, the doing rather than the waiting
for something because, you know, I can go years without having
one of these inspiration moments if I don't just play and do
stuff. Yeah.
Yes, I mean, Maya Angelou treated writing as as a job.
She rented a hotel room. She would go into the room and
and work all day long. And it's it's, it becomes part
of the process. Yeah, Well, thank you for
sharing a bit about your process.
You know, it's led to, Yeah, this honor, right?
As I mentioned in the intro, you received a 2025 Stephen Heller
Prize for Cultural Commentary. It's named after Stephen Heller,
who's a professor at SVA in New York, who's also prolific writer
himself. And it's such a meaningful honor
for design writing and design commentary.
Can you tell us about what this award means to you?
And also a little bit maybe about your long relationship
with AIGA, since this is like a a culmination of it or a Laurel
that comes from that long relationship.
Thank you. Yes, receiving the Stephen
Heller Prize from the AIGA meant a great deal to me.
Stephen has long modelled how design writing can function as
as as cultural commentary, not just as craft or historical
documentation, so being recognized in that context felt
deeply humbling for me. The award affirmed something I
believed for a long time, that our thinking about design should
live beyond the classroom, beyond our our siloed community,
that it should participate in broader cultural conversations.
I'm a great fan of public scholars like Anne Applebaum,
Neil deGrasse Tyson, Dr. Henley, Louis Gates.
So for me, writing for Harvard Business Review, writing for
Fast Company, writing for Ink IT, it's essential to me because
I want to tell the public about how we think, about how we live,
about how we consume, about how we relate to each other and to
the planet. And so the Heller Prize really
felt like an encouragement to keep doing that, to keep
insisting that design commentary is cultural commentary.
And and early in my career, to answer your question about the
AIGA, the AIGA represented excellence and inspiration.
It was where you look to understand what great design
was, who the great designers were.
It offered community. It offered standards, a sense of
belonging to something larger than oneself and it and it
signaled professional legitimacy.
Right. Over time, I saw the AIGAA
little differently as a convener of ideas, a place where design,
ethics, diversity, technology, cultural responsibility could be
debated and shaped. And that was, that was really
critical, I think to understand that and to, to share that with
my colleagues and students. So the in the past decades, I, I
think the biggest shift I've seen is that design has moved
from artifact to influence. And designers today shape
interfaces, we shape behaviors, narratives, even public policy.
So that expansion carries responsibility.
And the AI JS role has evolved from kind of, in my mind, from
celebrating craft to fostering leadership, inclusion, ethical
accountability. So I see it as a cultural
platform. Yeah, thank you for sharing your
perspective. It's definitely like, you know,
Julie and I being the torch bearers of AIGA at the moment,
you know, to thinking about just curating and producing our
conference last year in Los Angeles where you received the.
Stephens Hacker Prize. You know, for us it really was
like, how do we hold this space? That's like, maybe I don't know
if it's a third space or neutral space, but it's like bridging
the discourses that happen in academia, in industry, but is
kind of brings people together, right?
Educators, professors like yourself, but also, you know,
practitioners, people working in design agencies or in house like
this space that people may not gather as often, right?
Cross paths as often. Like how do we talk about design
in these very different ways and cross pollinate these ideas and
networks with each other? And you do a great job.
Thank you. You're all.
Thank you. Thank you.
Probably not. I think you mentioned earlier
that you say that usually at the moment we, we're not only
writing, we're rewriting. So looking at what exists in the
world and how do we build on knowledge on top of that.
And I think from when we talk about from the design
perspective, I think often times we're also redesigning things
that already exist, but maybe are not working in current time.
So I'm, I'm curious to hear from you if there's a product, a
service or a space that you could redesign that is probably
not working how it should that you want to share with us.
What would you change about it? That is such a fascinating
question that I think that could cover.
You could ask every designer about that it and so you're,
you're asking an, an educator. So my answer is I would redesign
classrooms as, as active spaces. I, I actually really hate that
it's, it's still in a talking head format that kids are stuck
in desks. Whether the university, I call
my students kids. They're not, they're they're
young adults. I I would create flexible
environments. That invite movement, that
invite collaboration, reflection, experimentation.
Furniture would shift easily. The walls would be what do you
call the white, writable surfaces.
There would be space for making, for prototyping, for discussion,
and even for quiet contemplation.
And technology would support exploration, not dominate it.
So I I think learn. I really think learning is
social. That's how I run it in my
university classroom. It's embodied, as you said,
Juliana, Julia, It's, it's iterative.
Our spaces should reflect that. Design shapes behavior.
And if we want curiosity, participation, and critical
thinking, we have to design for them.
And right now, many classrooms are designed for compliance.
And I'd read I'd redesign them for engagement.
Wow. Yeah, I love that.
It's it's such an important shift to to design for
participation and and engagement.
Yeah, I love that. And Speaking of, you're a person
that has navigated many spaces. So as a designer, also as a
writer, but also as an academic, as a dancer as well, as you
mentioned earlier, is there someone in the past or present
that truly has inspired you in any of these spaces that you
have been? So either for their work or for
the person that they they are, And why, why, why is it?
Is it OK if I mentioned three people?
Is that of course, yeah, the. More the married.
Yes. OK.
So I'll, I'll, I'll break it down a little bit.
Somebody that your listeners are very familiar with in the design
world would be Brian Collins, who what moves me is, is how he
frames responsibility. Brian talks about brands as
living systems and design as cultural membership.
The main thing I think that that separates Brian from many other
designers is that he challenges us to think of the planet as a
stakeholder. He, he's and I, I'm aligned with
him and being very planet centered and he leads with
extraordinary generosity, whether he's mentoring or
sharing, elevating others, inviting people on sojourns.
I mean, his leadership really expands beyond design aesthetics
into stewardship, I think. And then in higher education, I
have to shout out my university president, Doctor Lamont
Reppalet, who's also my co-author of of a new book we
co-authored a book called Leadership by Design.
And what stands out about Doctor Reppalet is how he is a value
driven's leader and and he's a humanist.
He listens deeply, he builds community intentionally and he
believes education transforms lives and acts on that every
day. And then the person that the
other designer I would like to speak about and, and you both
know a lot about her because you awarded her a posthumous medal
this past year is Dorothy Hayes. And it was a really kind of 360
moment for me at the conference when when you awarded Dorothy
that medal because Dorothy hired me to teach my first teaching
job. Dorothy.
No, I didn't know that. Yeah, Dorothy was, as you know,
a designer. She had her own studio, I think
it was Dorothy's door, is that? Yes, Correct.
She was an educator at CUNY, where she hired me and a
sculptor, so a really a Renaissance person.
And she modeled for me what it meant to be a practitioner and a
committed educator. And I don't know that I'd be
sitting here talking to you. I don't want to cry without
without Dorothy Hayes. Wow, that's beautiful.
I didn't know that. That's it's such an important
part of the story that we are happy to share with the
listeners. I really didn't know.
And I got to meet her family at the conference of So I'm in your
debt. Wow.
That's so beautiful. Yeah.
I wanted to pivot back to what we're talking about with brands
and hear more about your expertise of about brands and
cultural moments. You know, I gave the example
from earlier my career with Dove and how brands are these
cultural actors. And so maybe as a way to plug
into current events, we're recording this a few days after
the Super Bowl. And so there's lots of, I mean,
both kind of political and cultural moments in such a large
spectacle like that. I have to admit I only watched
the Bad Bunny part. I didn't watch the game.
But with like, large spectacles like that and brands paying, you
know, Mega Millions of dollars to get in front of eyeballs and
get people's attention, like, how do you see that evolving?
Or you know, I mean, the Super Bowl's been around for decades,
but like now, especially with like AI powered, you know, ads
and, and things like that and even more attention, right?
So the Super Bowl, but also people are like on their phones
too, like posting about it as they watch.
The people's attention is even more divided.
Like how do you see that now that's maybe different from
decades ago? Well.
You put your finger on the idea that people are sharing about
things. It's so, so.
Social media has changed all of it, but and people scrutinize
what they see. Everybody's a critic, right?
And everybody's looking up to see if if the brand is telling
the truth or not. So I think brands build real
relationships and they have to move those relationships have to
move beyond visibility. And again, going back to the
idea that I think they have to make long term investments in
communities or in the planet that in the communities who
sustain them. That means showing up
consistently, not just during campaign cycles.
And it means supporting causes and people over the long term,
not just in a headline moment like like the Super Bowl.
It means designing initiatives that create real tangible value
for for people, for neighborhoods, for creatures,
for the planet. I I would argue that brands are
cultural participants that when they give back, when they build
platforms, when they find solutions or create spaces for
dialogue like like Doug did, they stop being interruptions
and start becoming partners. I mean, people do, you know,
watch the Super Bowl for the entertainment aspect, of course,
but awareness is transactional there.
There's so much out there as as you said, I think you use the
word noise or, or relationships are reciprocal.
So the brands that will endure are the ones who understand that
they're not just extracting information, but contributing to
culture in a positive way, not a negative.
Way. Totally, Yeah, Yeah, it's, it's
not just about like the name recognition for the brand or
sometimes these brands are already known by the audience,
right. But it's just like, OK, well,
what do you want people to talk about in relation to that brand
that's maybe beyond just the product that they're selling?
Exactly And Gen. Z is can be merciless.
I mean, they really will hold your feet to the fire and I I
applaud them for that. I applaud them for scrutinizing
whether a campaign is performative or or or real.
Yeah, that's great. It's such a a shift also with
with new generations being being the the audience of of all this
campaigns. Yeah.
We'll see how Gen. does, but Gen.
Z is, Gen. Z is is is really good in terms
of holding people to account. That's yeah, that's great.
I guess that's what we need. Yeah, previous generations need.
So Robin, besides being academic and academic and and a writer,
you also work as a consultant with corporations around
creativity. You have seen creative teams
change throughout the years and especially how creative skills
are are being spread throughout organizations.
So I, I wanted to hear from you if you have an advice on how to
give creative teams space for them to explore their creative
skills again, for, for them to progress in their careers.
So as they move to leadership roles, for instance.
So what exactly is the type of skills that you feel like is are
missing for in in those leaders in these corporations that
you've been engaged with? Well, the, the main thing
missing is, is enough diversity. I, I would say they've moved to
be more inclusive in terms of you seeing technologists and
brand strategists and product leads in the room with, with a
creative team much earlier. They're invited to the table
much earlier at the ground floor, especially technologists
and in and in England, brand planners and brand strategists
are are key here, more strategists there there and
there is more inclusion in terms of gender, race, ethnicity.
And that's progress. But the data still shows a long
way to go. For example, black creatives
only make up about 7% of the of the chief creative officers in
advertising. That doesn't reflect the
population. I think true creativity requires
diversity, differences in lived experience and age and culture
and perspectives. The teams I see doing the most
interesting works are the ones that intentionally broaden who
gets to contribute, not just symbolically but structurally.
So you know, the great cellist yo-yo Ma talks about the
ecological edge effect. I don't know if you if you heard
him talk, he talked about it on a podcast once I think where the
boundary between two ecosystems produces the richest
biodiversity. And the same is true for ideas.
Innovation happens at that edge where different cultures,
disciplines and and points of view meet.
So when you expand, who gets to shape the idea as you expand?
What's possible? That's great.
Yes, yes. So will we cap off this part of
the conversation about brands and stuff like that?
Is there an example of some recent brand work that has
really stuck with you in terms of a brand that's really power,
that's powerfully captured these cultural moments and shifted the
conversation? OK, if I mention too, yeah.
Please. Yeah.
That always. All of these examples.
OK, that that pop into my mind. The work that that stays with me
does usually one of two things, sometimes both.
It's either grounded into a deep insight into human behavior or
it it invests meaningfully in our planet, foreign people.
MasterCard has been doing their priceless campaign for I think
it's 20 years. I'm I'm not exactly sure.
And they few years ago realized that priceless had to include
everyone. And when Russia attacked
Ukraine, Ukrainians were leaving and and entering Poland in large
numbers. And MasterCard created an app
called Where to Settle to help Ukrainian refugees find places
to live and work in Poland. And also, not only did it help
Ukrainians, but it helped Polish citizens alleviate some anxiety
about the fact that not everybody was going to settle in
the same city and and take housing or jobs away from from
Polish people. So the campaign created a
digital platform that helped distribute arrivals more evenly
across regions, reducing pressure on urban areas and
while helping refugees integrate more smoothly.
I think that insight into the needs of both the Ukrainians and
the Poles help translate design into an infrastructure that that
was really beneficial. It didn't just communicate.
The campaign didn't just say communicate, we feel for you.
It actually did something that was very, very useful and and
helpful. Another brand and and if I had a
cat, I would feed my cat Sheba the Sheba the Sheba hope grows
reef restoration. I don't know if your listeners
know about it, but it it's powerful for a different reason.
It really represents a long term investment in reef restoration.
And you think, well, what is cat food have to do with coral
reefs? Well, cat eat fish and fish need
coral. And so they are, their
investment is measurable. It's made a huge difference in
reef restoration around the world.
It's an it's an ongoing environmental contribution.
So the brand didn't just talk about sustainability, they
fundamentally made a difference. And so I think both examples are
about reciprocity. They don't just capture
attention, but they reduce friction and they and they
restore ecosystems. Totally, yes.
We are reaching the end of our show now with the final chapter
talking about the future. And so one way that you are
making the future is shaping future designers, your students.
But you have been an educator for decades now and you're
teaching in a world you mentioned, like we could have
better classrooms for interaction and, and things like
that. But you're also teaching in a
world where students are plugged into their phones, they have
access to AI tools. So how are you navigating all of
that? Since the teaching environment,
the learning environment is different, even if the
classrooms are still maybe based on a factory model from
centuries past. It's really critical question in
industry is using AI. It's in the workflow.
So we have to in design and in, in, in the creative side of
advertising. We have to prepare students for
that reality. It would be unfair if we didn't.
So our graduates are entering creative fields where AI is
already in use. They need fluency, but they
don't actually even need me for fluency.
A lot of them are already very good at it.
What they need, well I hope they need me for, is judgement and
ethics. And I tell my students that AI
can generate absolutely, but it doesn't understand nuance yet.
We'll. See what happens when this
episode comes out, but. Right, right, right.
It it doesn't have it. The only ethics it has is for
whoever input. So there's bias and it doesn't
have cultural consequences. We have to foresee cultural
consequences and it doesn't have lived experience except for the
people who input and again, that's a very controlled group
of people in putting with their bias and it can't feel the
weight of a decision, which is interesting or live with the
consequences of the decisions that you make.
So the responsibility is still on the students and, and that
that's what I'm trying to communicate.
And, and then, and if everyone has access to the same tool, so
you both know that when Adobe comes out with a tool,
everybody's on it and, and all of a sudden kind of work looks
similar for, for a little while, right?
So we all have access to the same democratic tools and we're
using them in similar ways and the work starts to converge.
So you get algorithmic sameness, I guess.
But So what differentiates you isn't the tool, it's your
insight. It's your conceptual thinking,
it's your taste, it's your intention.
And so my role is to help them become not just efficient at the
tools, but to be thoughtful creators.
Yeah, I love that. Yeah, it makes, it makes total
sense. And speaking about the future,
still speaking about the future, if you could give one piece of
advice for emerging designers listening to us, what would it
be? Become the best critical and
creative thinker that you can and really think about the
voids, think about gaps, think about who's not included, who's
who's being excluded, who should be included?
How can you move the discipline forward?
How can you move the design discourse forward?
And and who gains. So I always talk about ideation
as goal gap and gain, and I think you really have to think
about all of those things. Who's missing, who's
underrepresented, who's underserved, and who stands to
benefit from what you're creating?
And to wrap up, I wanted to ask you what has been inspiring you
lately? So that could be a book, a
movie, a show, an album and exhibition.
Anything that you you want to share?
I recently visited the Metropolitan Museum's exhibit of
Nan Ray, and I always loved Man Ray.
But this particular exhibit, you know, when things hit you at a
certain time, Man Ray had this extraordinary ability to take
recognizable objects like a face or a body or a hand and
transform it into something mysterious and, and
psychologically charged. He he disrupted expectations.
He made the familiar feel strange.
So what inspires me is was his refusal to simply document
reality. He interpreted it.
He manipulated light. He experimented with form.
And it reminds me that experimentation is a
responsibility. That mystery invites
participation. It slows us down and it makes us
look again. If you want to go back to the
Super Bowl and the Squarespace commercial with Emma Stone, it
was invited us to to take a a closer look.
So that's what feeds my creativity right now.
The the permission to ask what if questions, What if we did
this? What if we did that and turn the
obvious into something evocative.
So Man Ray reminded me that the job of a creative person isn't
to confirm expectations, but to disrupt thing.
Wow, that's that's great. I'm going to check it out the
exhibition. Thank you, Robin.
Thank you so much for inviting me.
And thank you, listeners, for tuning into this episode of the
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