1 00:00:00,300 --> 00:00:03,900 Hello and welcome to another edition of the restart from. 2 00:00:03,900 --> 00:00:07,300 Aiga the professional association for design. 3 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:11,000 I'm Li Xiang zhuang. The restart is a Content series 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,500 devoted to helping the design and creative business 5 00:00:13,500 --> 00:00:16,200 communities. Forge a path forward in this, 6 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:20,000 radically changed world, the theme for this episode is hybrid 7 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,100 work and happiness. And our guest expert is dr. 8 00:00:23,100 --> 00:00:26,300 Tracey Brower. She is a PhD sociologist, who 9 00:00:26,300 --> 00:00:29,900 studies the sociology of work future of work workers. 10 00:00:30,100 --> 00:00:32,700 The workplace. Tracy is a principal with steel 11 00:00:32,700 --> 00:00:35,900 cases, applied research and Consulting practice, and she's 12 00:00:35,900 --> 00:00:38,900 also the author of the secrets of happiness at work and 13 00:00:38,900 --> 00:00:41,600 bringing work to Life by bringing life to work. 14 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,800 She's a contributor to forbes.com and Fast Company 15 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:48,200 among other Publications, and now on with our show about 16 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:54,400 hybrid work and happiness. Thank you so much for joining us 17 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:56,300 Tracy. Thank you for having me. 18 00:00:56,300 --> 00:00:57,800 I really appreciate it. Looking forward to our 19 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,600 conversation. Yeah, so to kick things off. 20 00:01:00,700 --> 00:01:02,500 I want to know. How did you get into the topic 21 00:01:02,500 --> 00:01:06,400 of happiness, in your research? Oh, my goodness, you know, I 22 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:07,800 think it's just really interesting. 23 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,400 It was kind of a natural outgrowth of all of my work 24 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:14,900 around work life and alternative ways to think about work-life 25 00:01:14,900 --> 00:01:20,000 balance because I think so often people think of work as drudgery 26 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:25,300 or unhappy times and work. We can be the source of plenty 27 00:01:25,300 --> 00:01:28,400 of joy, and happiness. And so that kind of led me to 28 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,700 this field. And it is so rich in terms of 29 00:01:31,700 --> 00:01:34,300 the amount of research on happiness, and the opportunities 30 00:01:34,300 --> 00:01:37,500 to create the conditions for happiness, through work and 31 00:01:37,500 --> 00:01:39,100 through the rest of our lives as well. 32 00:01:39,100 --> 00:01:41,600 So you put balance in air quotes. 33 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,200 I noticed. So, is there a better term that 34 00:01:44,208 --> 00:01:48,200 you prefer G1 to redefine? What balance looks like? 35 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,300 Yeah. I think it's probably a little 36 00:01:50,300 --> 00:01:52,300 bit of both. I know, balance is kind of the 37 00:01:52,300 --> 00:01:55,700 way that we think about About it in our vernacular, but I always 38 00:01:55,700 --> 00:01:58,200 think that balance is a little limiting, you know, like it 39 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,700 suggests that work and life are on two different planes and 40 00:02:02,700 --> 00:02:07,800 really work is part of a full life and balance suggest that 41 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,600 there's some precariousness and we have to do it, right? 42 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,800 Or we'll get unbalanced and I think that it's better for us to 43 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:19,700 think about it as navigation or integration or finding our own 44 00:02:19,700 --> 00:02:22,900 ways to kind of negotiate through the different tabs. 45 00:02:23,100 --> 00:02:26,800 Flows of our stages of life and stages of our work and how work 46 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:28,600 fits in. What if you found in your 47 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,100 research about how people are navigating the last 48 00:02:32,100 --> 00:02:33,900 year-and-a-half. Obviously, there's been a lot of 49 00:02:33,900 --> 00:02:38,700 challenges both to individual workers who are also parents and 50 00:02:38,900 --> 00:02:40,400 have other responsibilities at home. 51 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:44,400 But also to employers and managers and dealing with teams. 52 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,400 I know this is a huge topic that covers a lot of different 53 00:02:47,500 --> 00:02:51,100 groups, but just curious to hear a little bit about what are some 54 00:02:51,100 --> 00:02:53,900 of the things that you've been seeing in, Hearing about. 55 00:02:54,100 --> 00:02:57,400 Yeah, I mean, I think that we're in this place where we're pretty 56 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,900 exhausted and I think it's really healthy, but we 57 00:03:00,900 --> 00:03:04,700 acknowledge that this has been hard times, you know, like we've 58 00:03:04,700 --> 00:03:08,900 taken on so many new roles. Our worlds have become a lot 59 00:03:08,900 --> 00:03:13,200 smaller in some ways, as we've been kind of relegated to homes. 60 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,200 We just think we can get back out, and things are becoming a 61 00:03:16,208 --> 00:03:19,600 little bit more regular, and then we're kind of bumped back. 62 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,100 Again. We empathize with people in 63 00:03:22,100 --> 00:03:25,100 different regions. In countries across the globe 64 00:03:25,100 --> 00:03:29,100 where the virus is surging and so those can be really 65 00:03:29,100 --> 00:03:31,600 exhausting. So I think it's really fair that 66 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,900 we look around and go. Yeah, it's valid. 67 00:03:34,900 --> 00:03:39,000 That this has been a struggle and I think we're in this new 68 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,200 beginning like there's really interesting research that 69 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,900 compares this period to the Roaring 20s. 70 00:03:45,300 --> 00:03:49,800 And the Roaring Twenties were the most significant moment of 71 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,900 economic Global growth and personal. 72 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:57,000 Oil and organizational Global growth ever in history. 73 00:03:57,300 --> 00:04:00,400 And so there's a belief that we have a bit of a pent-up demand. 74 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,500 And so we have this new optimism as well. 75 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,500 And I think we had this opportunity to kind of look back 76 00:04:06,500 --> 00:04:08,600 and learn what have we learned about? 77 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,000 What's worked in terms of working from home. 78 00:04:11,100 --> 00:04:15,400 What can we learn about the need for presents and slowing down 79 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,000 and being together? What can we learn about how we 80 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,700 imagine the future in new ways. So I think we're in this moment 81 00:04:22,700 --> 00:04:24,500 of new. Beginnings and restart. 82 00:04:24,500 --> 00:04:27,000 So I love your themes as well on this topic. 83 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,200 So what are some of the things that you're optimistic about in 84 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,900 the NuvaRing Tony's? Yeah, really the new Roaring 85 00:04:33,900 --> 00:04:36,500 20s. I think we have this great 86 00:04:36,500 --> 00:04:38,700 opportunity to focus on well-being. 87 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,300 That's one of the trends that we're seeing is companies and 88 00:04:42,300 --> 00:04:45,900 leaders and individuals colleagues thinking of the 89 00:04:45,900 --> 00:04:50,400 holistic, nature of well-being, physical, and cognitive, and 90 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,900 emotional. I think we're at this new point. 91 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,200 Point of potential empathy toward what people go through in 92 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,600 terms of work life towards some of the mental health challenges 93 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:01,300 that we've had. So I think we're on this new 94 00:05:01,300 --> 00:05:04,000 opportunity for wellbeing. I think we have a new 95 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:08,400 opportunity to think about work life and how people navigate 96 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:13,000 that individually and how we can give more flexibility and more 97 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,800 options that are balanced. With the need to meet teams and 98 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,400 organizational requirements and accountabilities, which is super 99 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:22,900 fair and positive that organizations want our 100 00:05:23,100 --> 00:05:27,400 Traditions, I think we have a wonderful new opportunity to 101 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:32,200 think intentionally about community and belonging like so 102 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:37,300 many people have talked about loneliness and social isolation. 103 00:05:37,300 --> 00:05:42,000 And there's this Paradox where in some ways we've gotten more 104 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,600 intimate with each other and we may have built relationships 105 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,600 that are more distant and we've invited each other into our 106 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,400 homes. And at the same time, it's been 107 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,400 fairly isolating. So I think we can think about 108 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:58,300 community and how we reconnect and how we get a sense of 109 00:05:58,300 --> 00:06:02,400 belonging how we contribute. And then finally, I think we can 110 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,400 think about performance and kind of new ways that we bring our 111 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:10,100 best, right? Like, how do I work best on? 112 00:06:10,100 --> 00:06:13,400 What do I work best? With whom, do I work fast? 113 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:17,200 What kind of culture is best for me and for the organization? 114 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,800 So I think those are some of our new beginnings and great 115 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:21,300 opportunities. Yeah. 116 00:06:21,300 --> 00:06:23,600 That's wonderful. I kind of What's up a little 117 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:24,600 bit? At the end when you set 118 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:29,500 performance because I love the other things about well-being as 119 00:06:29,500 --> 00:06:31,400 well. But I'm just trying to think 120 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:36,300 about inhabiting the role of maybe a more quantitative type 121 00:06:36,300 --> 00:06:39,400 of manager who's looking at the ROI of what are the results of 122 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,600 all of this. And when you say performance, 123 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,400 like, okay, that's exciting. Not that, I don't care about the 124 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,500 health of my employees, right? But it's like, okay performance. 125 00:06:47,500 --> 00:06:51,700 So what have we found about performance in this mostly 126 00:06:51,700 --> 00:06:56,200 remote or more and more hybrid kind of work setting that 127 00:06:56,500 --> 00:07:00,300 actually affects performance. Oh, I love this question, too. 128 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,000 I think this is so interesting because I think sometimes 129 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:04,900 performance gets a bad name, right? 130 00:07:04,900 --> 00:07:08,100 Like performance is about holding people to account, or 131 00:07:08,100 --> 00:07:10,100 somehow holding feet to the fire. 132 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:12,500 But actually performance is a beautiful thing. 133 00:07:12,500 --> 00:07:17,100 I just finished a book called transcend, which really looks at 134 00:07:17,100 --> 00:07:21,700 Maslow and the, in the ways that we gain meaning from life, and 135 00:07:21,700 --> 00:07:25,600 we all want, You contribute, we want to perform. 136 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,100 We want to know that our contribution matters. 137 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,500 And so I think one of the things we've learned about performance 138 00:07:31,500 --> 00:07:34,500 is that performance is part of the community, right? 139 00:07:34,500 --> 00:07:37,900 Like part of my performance is me doing my best, but it's also 140 00:07:38,100 --> 00:07:41,700 me contributing to the community and that is very validating. 141 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:43,500 Another thing. I think we've learned about 142 00:07:43,500 --> 00:07:45,800 performance has everything to do with leadership. 143 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,900 The best leaders have always been the one that manage to 144 00:07:48,900 --> 00:07:53,000 objectives manage to outcomes, but without being able to see E 145 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,400 people in the office. Every day we get even more of a 146 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:01,000 sense of how critical it is that we engage people and hold them 147 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,700 accountable and do that effectively without being able 148 00:08:03,700 --> 00:08:06,300 to see each other every day, it just by for Monday through 149 00:08:06,300 --> 00:08:08,000 Friday. The other thing I think we've 150 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,200 learned about performance is that it is multifaceted. 151 00:08:11,300 --> 00:08:15,300 I think we count productivity. A lot of times, great example of 152 00:08:15,300 --> 00:08:18,600 a customer, we were working with them, their velocity, which is 153 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,800 the measure of their productivity and increased 18%. 154 00:08:23,500 --> 00:08:27,600 But they saw during the last 18 months, of 30 percent. 155 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,900 Turnover of their staff was kind of, not just about how many 156 00:08:31,900 --> 00:08:34,600 widgets. It's also about engagement and 157 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,900 retention and having people working together, effectively. 158 00:08:39,100 --> 00:08:42,700 And so performance is multifaceted. 159 00:08:42,799 --> 00:08:46,700 In the last thing I would say is that, I think we had this 160 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,500 committee myth of productivity like we can be just as 161 00:08:49,500 --> 00:08:52,200 productive as home as, you know, as we can in the office. 162 00:08:52,900 --> 00:08:56,900 In reality, there are key things we can do brilliantly at home. 163 00:08:57,100 --> 00:09:01,500 Wrote work routine, work, truly alone work. 164 00:09:01,500 --> 00:09:04,700 If we have space to focus at home, but the things that we 165 00:09:04,700 --> 00:09:08,100 need to do face-to-face, are the things that are more complex, 166 00:09:08,100 --> 00:09:11,900 more ambiguous often based on speed and urgency. 167 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,800 Those are based on some type of scientific studies. 168 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,200 So I think we can think about where we do our work and what 169 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:22,500 kind of performance we want and, which space serves Us best. 170 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,700 Yeah, that has me thinking of some of the specifics of design 171 00:09:26,700 --> 00:09:31,000 work but also applicable to other creative Industries where 172 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,500 there's definitely part of it. That's a craft right there, 173 00:09:33,500 --> 00:09:36,200 requires quiet time. Like I don't want to be in an 174 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,600 open plan office. I want my headphones on or I 175 00:09:38,608 --> 00:09:42,200 want my own private space to work on this logo that I'm 176 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:46,400 working on, or, edit photos or whatever visual task I'm doing. 177 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,300 But then there's parts of it where I want to be in a team, 178 00:09:49,300 --> 00:09:52,400 whether it's for a brainstorm looking for, new creative ideas, 179 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:57,200 or Or looking at work, right? Reviewing work critiquing work. 180 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,800 There's a immediacy to doing that in person that you can do, 181 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,700 say, online on a virtual whiteboard, but it's not quite 182 00:10:05,700 --> 00:10:09,000 the same thing. And so, how do you think about 183 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:13,200 this or what sort of advice do you have for design leaders and 184 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:15,600 creative Industries? Like how do they think about 185 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,500 this balance? Now that hybrid is kind of the 186 00:10:18,500 --> 00:10:22,200 cat is out of the bag, right? And it seems to be in demand as 187 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,400 a new normal. Yeah, the cat is out of the bag. 188 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:29,700 That's a quotable quote. I love that this creative work 189 00:10:29,700 --> 00:10:33,900 is so interesting. I just did an article that came 190 00:10:33,900 --> 00:10:38,600 out Sunday and I looked at the research that relates creativity 191 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,700 and happiness. Like when people are involved in 192 00:10:41,700 --> 00:10:45,200 more creative Pursuits, they tend to be happier. 193 00:10:45,500 --> 00:10:48,500 And the opposite is true. When you're happier, you tend to 194 00:10:48,500 --> 00:10:51,700 feel more creative confidence, you tend to want to create more. 195 00:10:51,700 --> 00:10:53,700 And so, there is this. This really important 196 00:10:53,700 --> 00:10:56,800 relationship. So I think about creativity and 197 00:10:56,900 --> 00:10:59,400 I think about the other thing that's important. 198 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:04,000 And you point to it is that not all creativity is in groups with 199 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,200 Post-it notes. And, you know, Divergent 200 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:11,800 thinking there is also both work and rumination and marinating 201 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,300 and all of those important convert and activities that have 202 00:11:15,300 --> 00:11:19,100 to do with creativity. So, I think part of it is being 203 00:11:19,100 --> 00:11:22,700 really intentional about the kind of process that we're going 204 00:11:22,700 --> 00:11:24,500 to. Doing like what part of the 205 00:11:24,500 --> 00:11:27,000 creative process early going to be in the midst of? 206 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,800 So the work is a key. I think another key is our 207 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,200 preference. Like my preference might be to 208 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,900 be all by myself when I'm working on a really tough 209 00:11:35,900 --> 00:11:37,600 problem. And I need to be essentially 210 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,600 creative about it and especially creative about it. 211 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,400 Your preference might be to be with others and so that personal 212 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,500 preference and I think curating are spaces and curating your 213 00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:51,900 choices is so important, you know, like maybe there's a 214 00:11:51,900 --> 00:11:55,900 moment when In our home offices, or maybe there's a moment when 215 00:11:55,900 --> 00:11:59,400 we're in a work club or a moment when we're in our offices at a 216 00:11:59,408 --> 00:12:04,300 former workplace, and I think if we can curate those choices and 217 00:12:04,300 --> 00:12:08,300 as Leaders, I think it's giving people as much choice and 218 00:12:08,300 --> 00:12:13,500 control as possible and setting expectations for when, in the 219 00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:15,500 project flow. It's going to be most important 220 00:12:15,500 --> 00:12:19,700 for us to work together and then also modeling the way, you know, 221 00:12:19,700 --> 00:12:22,800 leaders are as whether they mean to be or not said exactly. 222 00:12:22,900 --> 00:12:24,900 Balls, whether they mean to or not. 223 00:12:24,900 --> 00:12:27,900 And so when they're modeling the way toward this intentionality 224 00:12:27,900 --> 00:12:31,300 of their own work, they go far toward Leading The Way for their 225 00:12:31,300 --> 00:12:32,700 staff. Yeah. 226 00:12:33,500 --> 00:12:36,200 I want to learn more about what you wrote about creativity. 227 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:41,100 But first, I wanted to follow up on this theme of giving your 228 00:12:41,100 --> 00:12:45,600 team members control, but also belonging and run by a scenario 229 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,200 would be very concrete scenario that I've seen a lot which is 230 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,700 companies moving to this kind of hot, desking. 231 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,800 Skin environment, right? Where nobody has a permanent 232 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,200 work space and maybe folks are working from home most of the 233 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,000 time, but if they come into the office, it's bringing your 234 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:06,100 laptop and first come first serve, which is how a lot of 235 00:13:06,100 --> 00:13:08,700 co-working spaces work, but at the same time, you don't have 236 00:13:08,700 --> 00:13:11,200 that sense of belonging there because you can't leave your 237 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:15,400 plant or that picture of your dog, or your kid, or whatever 238 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:17,900 that is, right? And so, the office feels like a 239 00:13:17,908 --> 00:13:21,600 kind of transitory almost sterile environment, and I know 240 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:25,400 there's trade-offs between Flexibility and belonging and 241 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,600 things like that. But how would you deal with 242 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:28,600 this? Scenario like this? 243 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:30,800 If an employer asking for your advice? 244 00:13:31,300 --> 00:13:35,000 Yeah, I think there's a happy middle point because I think 245 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,500 just what you described can be a huge challenge. 246 00:13:37,500 --> 00:13:40,700 Like I always say I've traveled so much over my career. 247 00:13:40,700 --> 00:13:44,000 I always say hotels in my experience are the loneliest 248 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,800 places in the world. It's just some transient. 249 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:48,300 Everything is transient. Right? 250 00:13:48,500 --> 00:13:51,500 But I think one of the things that's interesting is if we can 251 00:13:51,500 --> 00:13:54,300 create places where We have neighborhoods. 252 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,200 So I may not go to the same workstation every day, but I 253 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,700 might go to the same neighborhood every day. 254 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,800 And I think about has the benefit of I know where to find 255 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,700 my co-workers and feel together and I can kind of be an ambient 256 00:14:06,700 --> 00:14:08,900 awareness about the space around me. 257 00:14:09,100 --> 00:14:11,800 I can do individual work, but I can kind of pick up and ask 258 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,000 questions of the people around me and reconnect, right? 259 00:14:15,100 --> 00:14:18,100 And people know where to find me. 260 00:14:18,100 --> 00:14:21,500 Like, I think that's another thing that if you want Community 261 00:14:21,500 --> 00:14:22,700 people need to be able to connect. 262 00:14:23,300 --> 00:14:26,800 I think that you're saying the bad neighborhood idea gives us 263 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,600 is some sense of certainty. Like The Human Condition 264 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,000 neurologically is that we shy away from ambiguity and 265 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,600 uncertainty and we really want certainty. 266 00:14:37,700 --> 00:14:40,800 And there's so much uncertainty in the world right now, but if 267 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,000 we can go to work and kind of have some certainty about where 268 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,800 we're going to squat that day and who were going to run into, 269 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,400 that's a big deal. There's some very interesting 270 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:53,800 work going on with more clubs to where there are apps that are 271 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,900 going along with the word clubs where you can see transparently 272 00:14:57,900 --> 00:15:00,700 into other's intentions for the day. 273 00:15:00,900 --> 00:15:02,900 So instead of just picking a work Club. 274 00:15:02,900 --> 00:15:05,500 I might pick a work called where you're going to also because I 275 00:15:05,508 --> 00:15:07,500 know I want to run into you that day. 276 00:15:07,700 --> 00:15:11,100 So I think it's about picking places that work best for work 277 00:15:11,100 --> 00:15:14,200 and it's probably about picking people and who we want to run 278 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,700 into and get work. Done with that day. 279 00:15:17,100 --> 00:15:19,400 Yeah. I love that metaphor of the 280 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,300 neighborhood's. It actually kind of reminds me 281 00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:25,800 of my high school with A long time ago, but we had a cafeteria 282 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,600 my high school, but during lunch hour, you could get your food or 283 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,200 if you brought your lunch could basically eat it. 284 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,800 Anywhere on campus and they were basically like different places. 285 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,200 Different groups of kids would hang out, right? 286 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,000 Like the theater kids would be in one hallway in the band, kids 287 00:15:39,100 --> 00:15:40,800 somewhere else, the god, kid, somewhere else. 288 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,900 And it was these kind of de facto known things of like this 289 00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:46,900 is where you go to lunch. And so it kind of reminds me of 290 00:15:46,900 --> 00:15:51,100 that in a work context, but with people's laptops, that's really 291 00:15:51,100 --> 00:15:52,700 cool. It reminds me of this. 292 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,800 Concept of social identity, which I'm really excited about 293 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,600 right now. Belonging isn't just being with 294 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,200 other people. It is having a sense of social 295 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:05,000 identity with other people and we significantly get this on 296 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,600 some social identity from work, and they actually started during 297 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,000 the Industrial Revolution. Interestingly, and the 298 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,100 industrial revolution has lots of problems. 299 00:16:13,100 --> 00:16:15,900 Like there were terrible conditions during the Industrial 300 00:16:15,900 --> 00:16:18,200 Revolution. However, one of the interesting 301 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,500 things is that people had traditionally gotten social 302 00:16:21,500 --> 00:16:25,100 identity from Farm and, you know, they'd be churning butter 303 00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:28,100 with their friends and neighbors and harvesting grain with their 304 00:16:28,100 --> 00:16:30,700 friends and neighbors. And then they moved into cities 305 00:16:30,900 --> 00:16:33,600 in all of a sudden social identity came less from friends 306 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,000 and family and it came more from people. 307 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,400 They were working with. They spend a lot of time, 308 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,700 shoeing horses side by side or you know, kneading bread 309 00:16:41,700 --> 00:16:44,000 side-by-side. And so I think that is so 310 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,000 relevant for us today that you know, like who am I going to 311 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,600 work side-by-side with and how does my social identity arise 312 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,300 from the purpose of my company? The purpose of the work that I 313 00:16:54,308 --> 00:16:57,900 do the purpose that I fulfill uniquely all those things are so 314 00:16:57,900 --> 00:17:01,300 important. Yeah, that's a really powerful 315 00:17:01,300 --> 00:17:04,500 word their purpose. How do you help people think 316 00:17:04,500 --> 00:17:07,000 through their purpose? Obviously, there's the 317 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,500 institutional or organizational purpose of where they're 318 00:17:09,500 --> 00:17:13,400 working, but individual people have their purpose and their 319 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,400 agendas and hopefully there's some overlap in that Venn 320 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,700 diagram. How do people negotiate that 321 00:17:18,700 --> 00:17:23,500 especially at home when there's maybe childcare concerns or Dog 322 00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:26,400 care concerns of my case. But like, all of these things 323 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,700 that we're doing all at once. The kind of, we think about 324 00:17:28,700 --> 00:17:31,500 aligning purposes between the personal and the professional, 325 00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:33,600 especially when these things are so blurred now. 326 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:38,100 Yeah, so blurred and Alignment, I think, absolutely the key, 327 00:17:38,100 --> 00:17:41,800 like, we know from happiness research, the more you feel 328 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,800 alignment with the purpose of the organization that you're 329 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,600 working with the happier. You will be the more fulfilled 330 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,000 you'll feel the more joy, you'll feel not that you're going to be 331 00:17:50,008 --> 00:17:51,900 happy every single minute of every single day. 332 00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:55,700 But in, Terms of the ABS and flows over all contentment. 333 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,000 You'll have more happiness. When you feel more alignment of 334 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:04,500 that purpose between you and the organization and between you and 335 00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:06,700 kind of what's most important to you. 336 00:18:06,700 --> 00:18:10,300 Like, I love to think about the model of what do you have to do 337 00:18:10,300 --> 00:18:13,000 in your job? And what do you love to do? 338 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,500 The other thing? I think about purpose is that, I 339 00:18:16,500 --> 00:18:19,400 think we need to think small about purpose. 340 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:21,500 Like I think a lot of times we think about Purpose with a 341 00:18:21,508 --> 00:18:25,300 capital P, and We feel like if we're not solving world peace or 342 00:18:25,300 --> 00:18:28,100 solving world hunger or judgy about ourselves. 343 00:18:28,100 --> 00:18:32,100 Am I really getting enough done? And I think purpose can be how 344 00:18:32,100 --> 00:18:34,700 do you make your best contribution? 345 00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:37,500 Why do you good at? What makes sense today? 346 00:18:37,500 --> 00:18:39,800 What makes sense? Don't next month? 347 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,100 Do that. Next thing that makes sense. 348 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,000 The other thing that I learned recently, which I think is 349 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:50,300 fascinating, is that diversity of interests also tends to 350 00:18:50,300 --> 00:18:53,700 contribute to happiness. So, you know, Do something on a 351 00:18:53,700 --> 00:18:55,600 volunteer basis. You do something with your 352 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:57,800 family. You do something at work, the 353 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:02,000 more you can express yourself in diverse ways, the better and the 354 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,200 more those are integrated the better. 355 00:19:04,300 --> 00:19:07,900 So like I don't know, maybe I love doing presentations or 356 00:19:07,900 --> 00:19:10,900 something, and I can do that in my volunteer work at habitat and 357 00:19:10,900 --> 00:19:14,300 I can do it at my kids school or my dog training class with my 358 00:19:14,300 --> 00:19:18,700 dog with the other participants, or and I can do it at work. 359 00:19:18,700 --> 00:19:21,900 So, more integration is a really good thing and you make exactly 360 00:19:21,900 --> 00:19:24,300 the point the More alignment. We have the better. 361 00:19:24,500 --> 00:19:28,200 Yeah, I think that diversity of interests are applying your 362 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,100 interest in your talents to different. 363 00:19:30,100 --> 00:19:34,000 Contexts is so key. It's often a challenge. 364 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,700 I think, for Creative people, where we get into doing design 365 00:19:37,700 --> 00:19:40,500 work because we're passionate about it, but when I'm designing 366 00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:43,500 for clients all day long, like I don't want to go home and do my 367 00:19:43,500 --> 00:19:45,700 passion project. That's also design, right. 368 00:19:45,700 --> 00:19:49,200 I want to just cook something or take photos instead something 369 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,900 else because it's just too much greater. 370 00:19:51,900 --> 00:19:56,700 I'm like using All that creative energy for my clients for my day 371 00:19:56,700 --> 00:19:59,200 job. And so do you have any advice 372 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,100 for somebody like that? And I think a lot of creative 373 00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:04,300 people are in this situation where they get into their field 374 00:20:04,300 --> 00:20:05,900 because they're passionate about it. 375 00:20:05,900 --> 00:20:08,600 But then like the last thing they want to do when they get 376 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,000 home is to do a hobby related to that. 377 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,700 Exactly. I have that exact thing. 378 00:20:13,700 --> 00:20:16,000 Like I think about work all the time. 379 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,200 And remember, when not the show, The Office was big. 380 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,900 It was like the last show. I'm just I'm sure it's a great 381 00:20:21,900 --> 00:20:24,700 show, but I I want to watch a television show about what I did 382 00:20:24,700 --> 00:20:28,600 all day. I think that it's partly about 383 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,700 finding, how do you ladder up to that next big thing? 384 00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:34,900 Right? Like the design work that we do 385 00:20:34,900 --> 00:20:39,600 on a day-to-day basis might be about expression. 386 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:44,100 And so then if there are other ways to express, so your spoke 387 00:20:44,100 --> 00:20:48,400 expressing that kind of design, you're expressing that passion, 388 00:20:48,500 --> 00:20:51,100 but you're doing it in a different way and you absolutely 389 00:20:51,100 --> 00:20:54,200 call the now, maybe I'm doing Design work during the day and 390 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,000 I'm taking photographs later or I'm singing or I'm sculpting or 391 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,200 I'm I don't know, building sand castles with children. 392 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,100 I think it's about like figure out what is it about. 393 00:21:05,100 --> 00:21:10,300 Your vocation that makes you passionate and interested and 394 00:21:10,300 --> 00:21:13,400 energized and then ladder that up to? 395 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,700 What is that about you? That is fundamental. 396 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,300 And then come back down to what are the other ways that you can 397 00:21:20,300 --> 00:21:22,600 express that? And I think it's really fair. 398 00:21:22,700 --> 00:21:24,700 Fair that we just give ourselves space. 399 00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:28,200 Like one of the things, I mean, I love the topics that were 400 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:32,700 talking about and I love to read my thing that I do on the 401 00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:34,600 weekends. As I read, fiction, fiction, 402 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:39,200 fiction fiction, and I listened to nonfiction during my commute. 403 00:21:39,300 --> 00:21:42,400 So it's my way to feed my interest, but then also to have 404 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,800 some space that just gives me Rejuvenation and time away. 405 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,800 Because creatively, right? We need that Rejuvenation and 406 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,500 that time away desperately. Yeah, definitely. 407 00:21:52,700 --> 00:21:56,400 I've read so many design books forward because I'm interviewing 408 00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:00,200 authors at aiga. And so I find myself listening 409 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,700 to audiobooks for fun and things that are not designed related at 410 00:22:03,700 --> 00:22:06,500 all of them, walking through the woods or on the beach, listening 411 00:22:06,500 --> 00:22:08,900 to those things. And so I'm getting my step count 412 00:22:08,900 --> 00:22:12,100 and I'm kind of getting some mental stimulation as well. 413 00:22:12,100 --> 00:22:16,500 It's exactly if that's the integration of those interests. 414 00:22:16,500 --> 00:22:19,900 And the other thing that's super interesting, is that feeds 415 00:22:19,900 --> 00:22:24,400 creativity so deeply because all of all of those diverse ideas 416 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,000 come together in new ways. So I love it. 417 00:22:27,100 --> 00:22:31,100 Yeah, so back to creativity, which you wrote this article 418 00:22:31,100 --> 00:22:34,400 about published yesterday. What are some of the other 419 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:39,400 findings from that research? So really interesting findings 420 00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:42,100 more creative. Pursuits tend to make you 421 00:22:42,100 --> 00:22:44,100 happier. They tend to literally have 422 00:22:44,100 --> 00:22:48,400 people experiencing more connection, more joy, more 423 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:53,200 senses of awe, which I and wonder tend to Us to feel 424 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,600 happier. They also tended to make a more 425 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,500 creative when we do more creating and when we feel more 426 00:22:59,500 --> 00:23:03,500 happy that tends to create a reciprocal Loop. 427 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:08,700 And so we tend to want to create more when we are happy in a 428 00:23:08,700 --> 00:23:11,700 creative Pursuit. We tend to get more blood flow 429 00:23:11,700 --> 00:23:14,000 to some of the pleasure centers in our brain. 430 00:23:14,300 --> 00:23:17,000 That's interesting. There's also, some lovely 431 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:21,500 research on exercise that, when you physically putting out 432 00:23:21,500 --> 00:23:24,800 effort, you're Ting literally or figuratively. 433 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:29,300 And in this case literally you tend to feel happier because of 434 00:23:29,300 --> 00:23:32,700 the Endorphin reliefs, but you also tend to get a creative 435 00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:37,000 boost because your ego defenses scientifically, that's what 436 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,200 they're calling them. In that particular, study your 437 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,500 ego defenses. Go down, you're putting energy 438 00:23:41,500 --> 00:23:44,800 toward the physical aspect, which allows your mind to wander 439 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,100 and connect unlike ideas. So all of those things have 440 00:23:48,100 --> 00:23:50,700 everything to do with the pursuit of creativity and 441 00:23:50,700 --> 00:23:53,600 happiness and the reciprocal. That occurs. 442 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:55,300 That's wonderful. You guys. 443 00:23:55,300 --> 00:23:58,300 You mentioned energy a few times and I feel like that's something 444 00:23:58,300 --> 00:24:01,400 I wanted to learn more about of how to manage and harness that 445 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,600 energy. So much of what we talk about in 446 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,400 Creative, Pursuits is a lot about like time management, 447 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,300 which is important, but I think the energy management part of 448 00:24:10,300 --> 00:24:12,100 it, kind of Falls by the wayside. 449 00:24:12,100 --> 00:24:15,900 So to be more mindful of our energy levels, or what energizes 450 00:24:15,900 --> 00:24:18,400 us, how to kind of balance that out. 451 00:24:18,500 --> 00:24:20,900 Is a really helpful lens to look at the stuff. 452 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:22,600 Yeah. I totally agree. 453 00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:24,500 Free. I mean, you think about the Flow 454 00:24:24,500 --> 00:24:28,200 State when you're in best creative mode, you lose track of 455 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,000 time and, you know, you get so much done. 456 00:24:31,100 --> 00:24:32,900 Like I've literally said out loud. 457 00:24:32,900 --> 00:24:36,000 I feel like I'm in a time work. Like I've got all this time and 458 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,200 all the time, sort of Falls away and you can get so much done and 459 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,800 accomplished so much. And I think that is about energy 460 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,100 and passion and interest like when you're really engaged in 461 00:24:47,100 --> 00:24:50,700 something, you lose track of time in the best way and I think 462 00:24:50,700 --> 00:24:52,600 it's super fair that we have things in our world. 463 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,900 That may feel like they sap us and we just need to plan for 464 00:24:55,900 --> 00:24:59,300 those in terms of our circadian rhythms in terms of our temporal 465 00:24:59,300 --> 00:25:02,300 rhythms. Like maybe I do more of my 466 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,800 focused, coordinative orchestrating work in the 467 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,700 morning, when my frontal lobe is freshest. 468 00:25:08,700 --> 00:25:12,700 And then in the afternoon, when frontal lobe is tired, and some 469 00:25:12,700 --> 00:25:15,900 of the defenses, go down. I can do my more creative work 470 00:25:15,900 --> 00:25:18,300 or maybe I feel fresher in the morning and I want to do my more 471 00:25:18,300 --> 00:25:21,200 creative work in the morning. Those are dependent on 472 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,100 individual preference. But I think that understanding 473 00:25:25,100 --> 00:25:29,700 and reflection on your own, energizer's, what energizes you. 474 00:25:29,700 --> 00:25:33,000 And when you're most energized, and bringing those together in 475 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,900 the ways that we plan. Our days, is a great idea, to 476 00:25:35,900 --> 00:25:38,600 the extent, we can plan our days, we can't always, but when 477 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,800 we can Italy. And so, is there anything that I 478 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,200 haven't asked you about that? You wanted to share with our 479 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,200 listeners. I don't think. 480 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:48,200 So. This is just great. 481 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,000 I think we, I think we have this new opportunity right for 482 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,300 happiness. Again, not Pollyanna, you know, 483 00:25:55,300 --> 00:25:59,200 always bonbons and butterflies happiness will ebb and flow. 484 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,600 But we have this opportunity to be together in new ways to work 485 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,000 in new ways to create in new ways and all of that can 486 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,900 contribute to a lot of fulfillment and joy, so what's 487 00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:11,400 bringing you happiness right now? 488 00:26:12,700 --> 00:26:15,300 Oh my gosh, I'm learning so many new things. 489 00:26:15,300 --> 00:26:18,100 This is a great opportunity to be in this field because we're 490 00:26:18,100 --> 00:26:21,800 all thinking, so consciously about work and how we work. 491 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,400 And where we were Work and why we work. 492 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,600 And with whom we work through the absence of normal rethinking 493 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,600 more consciously. So, I just feel like I'm 494 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,100 learning so much lately. I get really excited about 495 00:26:33,100 --> 00:26:35,000 learning new things. Wonderful. 496 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,600 I've so excited that I've learned so much from you in this 497 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,800 interview. Just as a final call to action. 498 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,700 Can you tell our listeners where they can find you? 499 00:26:43,900 --> 00:26:46,100 Find your work and stay in touch? 500 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:47,700 Yeah. Absolutely. 501 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,700 So you mentioned steel case and Steelcase.com. 502 00:26:50,700 --> 00:26:56,900 We've got tons of really Cool, research on place on hybrid work 503 00:26:56,900 --> 00:27:00,600 on the nature of work, and so I would suggest going there. 504 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,600 And then I met Tracy, Brower Jack, calm. 505 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,400 I'm on LinkedIn and all the other social platforms. 506 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,200 My book is the secrets to happiness at work, and you can 507 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,600 find me at forbes.com as well and reach out. 508 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,300 Like I can only think about a little bit because I'm human and 509 00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:17,100 limited, but love new and diverse thinking. 510 00:27:17,300 --> 00:27:19,900 So reach out if you see things differently or have anything to 511 00:27:19,900 --> 00:27:22,100 add wonderful. Dr. Tracy Brower. 512 00:27:22,100 --> 00:27:24,800 Thank you. For joining us on AIG restart. 513 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,300 And thank you for tuning in. Thank you. 514 00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:28,100 Appreciate it.