1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:04,900 Hello, this is Lee, Shawn Wong, producer of aiga as podcasts. 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,300 Thank you for listening to our shows and following along with 3 00:00:08,300 --> 00:00:12,100 us on our design Journeys. We are going to be taking the 4 00:00:12,100 --> 00:00:14,400 next couple of months off. Now that we've wrapped our 5 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:16,400 season. But in the meantime, we're going 6 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:20,000 to drop some surprises and bonuses into our feed. 7 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,600 The first one is a feed swap with another design related 8 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,400 show. The Futures archive is a podcast 9 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,800 from design Observer, that looks at the history of Human centered 10 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:32,700 design with a critical eye on its future. 11 00:00:32,700 --> 00:00:37,700 You can find it on a podcast or wherever you get your podcast in 12 00:00:37,700 --> 00:00:41,600 this episode, mostly Moreau and co-hosts lonely, oh discussed 13 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,300 the automatic door and how we can design thresholds of all 14 00:00:45,300 --> 00:00:49,300 kinds to be inviting to all people with additional insights 15 00:00:49,300 --> 00:00:53,500 from Lawrence, taldor s Williamson, Wendy Jew, and Dave 16 00:00:53,500 --> 00:00:56,900 adkisson, you can learn more about the show and find a link 17 00:00:56,900 --> 00:01:00,700 to a complete transcript, in our show notes, and As always, you 18 00:01:00,700 --> 00:01:04,099 can email us at podcast@biobalancehealth.com or 19 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:09,000 if you have any suggestions for guests, show ideas or shows that 20 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,300 we should swap feeds with. All right, talk to you later. 21 00:01:13,500 --> 00:01:16,800 Welcome to the Futures archive. A show about human Center design 22 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,200 with this season. Will take an object look for the 23 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:21,900 human at the center and keep asking questions. 24 00:01:22,300 --> 00:01:24,600 I'm lemur. Oh and I'm lonely. 25 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,500 Oh, on each episode. We're going to start with an 26 00:01:27,500 --> 00:01:32,000 object with power today, that object The automatic door, we'll 27 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,200 look at the history of that object from our perspective as 28 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,600 designers who've done, work in human centered design, not just 29 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,500 how it looks and feels but also the relationship between bad 30 00:01:40,500 --> 00:01:43,700 objects and the people it was designed for and with other 31 00:01:43,700 --> 00:01:46,800 humans to the features archive is brought to you by the design 32 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,000 team at automatic later on. We'll hear from amandeep. 33 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,300 Sure, Gil. A member of automatics Global 34 00:01:52,300 --> 00:01:54,900 recruitment team, High slowly. Oh! 35 00:01:55,100 --> 00:01:57,500 Hi Lee. How are you today? 36 00:01:57,500 --> 00:02:00,000 I'm feeling pretty good and excited. 37 00:02:00,100 --> 00:02:03,100 About, I don't know the next six months, whenever we get to the 38 00:02:03,100 --> 00:02:05,900 mid-year part of the year, I'm kind of like, oh, I have a whole 39 00:02:05,900 --> 00:02:08,300 new try again for six more months and I kind of love that 40 00:02:08,300 --> 00:02:09,400 reset. Oh good. 41 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,300 Okay, so it's like, you get another shot at 2022. 42 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,200 Yeah. Well, I like that and we'll need 43 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:15,500 that optimism. Today, we're going to be 44 00:02:15,508 --> 00:02:18,800 talking, this is our final conversation together in our 45 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,900 stream of conversations related to convenience. 46 00:02:22,900 --> 00:02:25,700 And this conversation will be about the automatic door. 47 00:02:28,100 --> 00:02:31,100 I'm wondering what comes to mind when you think of the automatic 48 00:02:31,100 --> 00:02:33,200 door. I think of a few things. 49 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,700 I think of how much fun it is to push the button when you're a 50 00:02:35,700 --> 00:02:37,300 kid. It's kind of like when a kid 51 00:02:37,300 --> 00:02:39,700 gets in the elevator or in the automatic door, they see like 52 00:02:39,700 --> 00:02:41,200 the Raikou. I can wave my hand. 53 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,700 I can step on this Paddock and push the button and like a grand 54 00:02:44,700 --> 00:02:47,200 entrance becomes possible. So I think there's also 55 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,800 something like my adult theatrical playful style that 56 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,800 makes me feel like, it feels kind of Royal actually and not 57 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,000 just like a door, and you just did this like, Little arm 58 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,100 gesture. So it's like a sweep to the 59 00:02:59,100 --> 00:03:01,600 side. Yeah, it's like two double doors 60 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,000 opening at the same time there's a slight wind behind. 61 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,300 You, your caftan or your hair is blowing and you walk into the 62 00:03:08,300 --> 00:03:10,800 meeting which is or the grocery store which is often times where 63 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,700 I see automatic doors, but either way a little drama Lie. 64 00:03:13,700 --> 00:03:17,500 A little drama aren't you so happy that I finally arrived so 65 00:03:17,500 --> 00:03:21,100 I can buy some potato chips. Like you're welcome, I'm here 66 00:03:21,100 --> 00:03:22,900 for Lacroix. You know it feels a bit like 67 00:03:22,900 --> 00:03:24,400 that. What else do you think of? 68 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,700 I think about like accessibility Like just straight up being able 69 00:03:27,700 --> 00:03:30,700 to like accessibility for folks, who are using wheelchairs but 70 00:03:30,700 --> 00:03:34,400 also for people who are like carrying a child or a bunch of 71 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,600 large boxes, like it feels like a nice gesture. 72 00:03:38,900 --> 00:03:42,000 It makes it easier for people who are doing things with their 73 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,500 hands and their arms. So, carrying a child into a 74 00:03:44,500 --> 00:03:49,200 restaurant or willing yourself into a movie theater, or just 75 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,800 being tired, you know, feeling weekends. 76 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,400 Like, I had gender forming surgery in January and I 77 00:03:55,408 --> 00:03:58,800 couldn't use my Armed had very limited Mobility, very limited 78 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,600 strength and so knowing I was going places that had automatic 79 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,000 doors may be excited to go out because I knew I could make it 80 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,900 there and get in without having to ask for help and sometimes 81 00:04:09,900 --> 00:04:14,100 that feels nice to, you know, it doesn't feel like we're 82 00:04:14,100 --> 00:04:16,399 pretending labor. Like they're I think with a lot 83 00:04:16,399 --> 00:04:19,100 of the stuff we've talked about Lee, there's been like someone's 84 00:04:19,100 --> 00:04:21,500 labor was there and then it was automated. 85 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,500 But like who are we replacing with an automatic door? 86 00:04:24,500 --> 00:04:27,000 What like the union of door. Owners. 87 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:28,400 Yeah. Which I don't think is a thing. 88 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:29,800 No offense. If that's a thing somewhere and 89 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:31,600 I missed it, but I don't think it's a thing. 90 00:04:31,900 --> 00:04:34,600 So it feels like one of those luxury accommodations and it 91 00:04:34,608 --> 00:04:37,400 doesn't feel like we're we're messing something up Social 92 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,700 collect. What are the things that you 93 00:04:39,700 --> 00:04:41,300 didn't say? But I think about what I think 94 00:04:41,300 --> 00:04:44,700 of the automatic door is the future, the sort of sci-fi 95 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,300 Vision, like, sort of Star Trek. The whoosh door, which I think 96 00:04:48,300 --> 00:04:52,500 was only came from one side and it moved over and going shoosh 97 00:04:52,500 --> 00:04:57,000 and and open. So, there is a kind of that All 98 00:04:57,300 --> 00:05:00,900 entrance, whether it's in a supermarket or onto the the 99 00:05:00,900 --> 00:05:05,000 Holodeck or something like that, and that ability to like see the 100 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:09,100 future through science fiction as a way to anticipate today. 101 00:05:09,100 --> 00:05:11,300 I mean that's also something I think of with the automatic 102 00:05:11,300 --> 00:05:12,500 door. Yeah. 103 00:05:12,500 --> 00:05:16,400 I mean I think that this idea of like futuring as an activity or 104 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:21,300 speculative design is something that has been like a permanent 105 00:05:21,300 --> 00:05:24,300 fixture of like my inner curiosity, landscape. 106 00:05:24,700 --> 00:05:26,300 Have you ever heard about the elevator to space? 107 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,800 Space, which is kind of what preceded, Elon Musk and virgin 108 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:31,700 doing what is actually an elevator to space. 109 00:05:31,700 --> 00:05:35,200 Like yes, those ideas actually started for me and The Jetsons. 110 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,400 You know, I didn't watch as much Star Trek and Star Wars, but I 111 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,500 watched a hell of a lot of Jetsons and it's weird because I 112 00:05:41,508 --> 00:05:43,900 think the Jetsons like took place in 2025 or something. 113 00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:47,400 And I'm like, oh we're here, okay? 114 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,900 And there are some really great futuristic things that are here 115 00:05:50,900 --> 00:05:54,600 now, but they're coexisting with like steam punk era stuff, 116 00:05:54,700 --> 00:05:56,000 right? We have IDs, you know? 117 00:05:56,500 --> 00:06:00,800 Doors and microwaves are kind of magical unto themselves, but we 118 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,500 also still have a lot of like, day-to-day regular stuff. 119 00:06:04,500 --> 00:06:07,500 So yes, it's good to have both. Anything makes me appreciate one 120 00:06:07,500 --> 00:06:10,000 of them a little bit more. The future is not hitting us all 121 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,000 at one time. No, that's probably for the 122 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:13,000 better. Yeah. 123 00:06:13,900 --> 00:06:16,700 So we're going to now embark on our journey of hearing more 124 00:06:16,700 --> 00:06:19,900 about the automatic door from our historians and designers who 125 00:06:19,900 --> 00:06:22,100 help us make sense of it. And this is what we've heard so 126 00:06:22,100 --> 00:06:27,000 far. We have been investigating What 127 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,300 one could call microarchitectures of everyday 128 00:06:30,300 --> 00:06:36,700 life like different threshold devices, different apparatuses, 129 00:06:37,100 --> 00:06:41,500 different machines, Lauren stalder, teaches history, and 130 00:06:41,500 --> 00:06:44,200 theory of architecture at the, a Tejada in Zurich. 131 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,100 So it's sort of hard to build a history of something like doors 132 00:06:48,100 --> 00:06:51,600 or even automated doors, like we're talking about who have 133 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:55,100 precedence that go back to basically ancient Greece, but 134 00:06:55,100 --> 00:06:57,800 Lawrence work. Looks at the automatic doors 135 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,700 that you and I experience every day, which started entering the 136 00:07:00,708 --> 00:07:05,700 public sphere in the mid-40s liked was extremely interesting 137 00:07:05,700 --> 00:07:12,000 to see how a very traditional dimension of architecture which 138 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:17,400 is to create a limits can be rethought in the 20th century. 139 00:07:17,900 --> 00:07:23,200 We look at model is as the open space, the Limitless, open 140 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:27,300 architecture, yet. If you begin to To investigate 141 00:07:27,300 --> 00:07:32,400 my precisely the threshold. You see that this open space is 142 00:07:32,500 --> 00:07:37,800 highly regulated. Indeed architecture has always 143 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:46,300 been discipline that sets and defines the way a society 144 00:07:46,300 --> 00:07:51,200 organizes itself. So the way Laurent is describing 145 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,800 this as sort of that architecture, is both functional 146 00:07:54,100 --> 00:07:55,400 right in the sense that it works. 147 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:57,400 But also it's a acts as a metaphor. 148 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:02,600 So the notion of door, the thing that separates us and we can go 149 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,300 in, or we can stay out it, divides both public and private, 150 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:10,400 he's really focused on designing those in-between spaces and 151 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:14,100 researching these sort of liminal in between spaces that 152 00:08:14,100 --> 00:08:16,800 separate inside and out different behaviors from one 153 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:21,100 another, you know, light. Odors even different, 154 00:08:21,100 --> 00:08:24,300 populations that threshold that connects things. 155 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:29,700 This is kind of a almost poetic way of thinking about space. 156 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,400 Yeah, it reminds me of the field of dramaturgy, if you go see a 157 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,100 play and there's three acts between those acts, there's this 158 00:08:38,100 --> 00:08:40,900 moment where you have to transition the audience from 159 00:08:40,900 --> 00:08:43,799 what happened, just then to what's about to happen. 160 00:08:43,900 --> 00:08:46,200 You know, like this kind of like moment of in between space. 161 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,800 It also that idea of like dramaturgy is a way to connect a 162 00:08:49,808 --> 00:08:53,800 set of experiences into a cohesive like narrative and 163 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,600 experience resonates with me a lot as a person who host events 164 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,300 you know like Community design and our studio and my own 165 00:09:01,300 --> 00:09:04,800 temperament means I'm making lots of thresholds and lots of 166 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,200 moments of transition. So when people enter your house 167 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,500 like is there a basket of little sandals? 168 00:09:11,500 --> 00:09:13,500 If you have a no-shoe household policy? 169 00:09:13,700 --> 00:09:17,000 Like, is that a way of creating a threshold that's welcoming is 170 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,000 the welcome mat, a type of threshold like the Actual mat 171 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,700 itself because you're kind of like cleansing yourself before 172 00:09:22,700 --> 00:09:26,000 you go into the space. And so I think that the way 173 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,300 Laurent talked about architecture, with that bit of 174 00:09:29,300 --> 00:09:33,900 like lyricism and romance, and process is actually really 175 00:09:33,900 --> 00:09:36,500 familiar to me as a person who works in community because you 176 00:09:36,500 --> 00:09:39,800 want to make things easier for people to be together. 177 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,700 And even that is easier like Pleasant if not pleasant nice 178 00:09:43,700 --> 00:09:47,100 and if not nice luxury and if not luxury at least just like 179 00:09:47,100 --> 00:09:51,100 really sweet and tender, For me, when I think of the automatic 180 00:09:51,100 --> 00:09:54,800 door, I like Zoom back to my childhood and I grew up in a 181 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,100 very small town. So there was no automatic doors 182 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,400 in my town not even at the grocery store. 183 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,100 There was no groceries doctor, no. 184 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:05,100 Oh, so we would have to drive like 15 or 20 miles to get to a 185 00:10:05,100 --> 00:10:08,600 place that had a grocery store that would have an automatic 186 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:10,300 door. And I remember so that sort of 187 00:10:10,300 --> 00:10:12,200 Royal Jester that you were for me. 188 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:16,000 That's a childhood playful. Almost like using the force kind 189 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,100 of thing where and I still do that. 190 00:10:18,100 --> 00:10:22,100 Like and I I gather you still kind of might make a gesture to 191 00:10:22,100 --> 00:10:23,400 get right. Yes. 192 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:24,900 Like a magician. Yes. 193 00:10:24,900 --> 00:10:26,500 Yep. And I do think there was a bit 194 00:10:26,500 --> 00:10:30,300 of you know for me transitioning from a small town to a big, a 195 00:10:30,300 --> 00:10:33,100 big city thing that was happening as a child. 196 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,600 But anyway, they're installed our wrote an article called 197 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,300 Turning architecture, Inside Out revolving doors and other 198 00:10:39,300 --> 00:10:42,600 threshold devices in the Journal of architecture history and 199 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,400 LaRon is in his article points out the different types of 200 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,000 places that we see this architecture being potentially, 201 00:10:49,100 --> 00:10:52,600 We more welcoming so in there in our contemporary world we can 202 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,600 achieve this moment of going to these spaces and having them 203 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:58,700 really welcomed us thanks to the automatic door. 204 00:10:58,700 --> 00:11:00,600 We're just sort of opens up automatically. 205 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,400 This is like we're all accustomed to this and the sort 206 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:07,500 of contemporary retail oriented space but if we think 207 00:11:07,500 --> 00:11:11,500 historically about the past there were these really imposing 208 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,100 thick, heavy doors to like a courtroom or an institution of 209 00:11:15,100 --> 00:11:17,200 building that were not welcoming at all. 210 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:21,100 They were the opposite of that. You probably have memories of 211 00:11:21,108 --> 00:11:25,200 that or different experiences where the sort of imposing door, 212 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,000 that's meant to prevent you from Gaining access to all. 213 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:32,000 So this is really all of this is building to a really important 214 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,400 conversation about human centered design and this is 215 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,500 Laurent one more time to kind of take this home. 216 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,900 Isuzu's history of special devices. 217 00:11:44,500 --> 00:11:53,300 One can follow the way Society defines, what the human body is. 218 00:11:53,700 --> 00:11:59,000 It allows you in a real, a metaphoric way to describe life 219 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:04,400 and our relationship to society, you know who can ultimately 220 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,400 access or not access, the space is physically and metaphorically 221 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,000 determined by the door. We build whether they're 222 00:12:11,100 --> 00:12:14,000 automatically opening or automatically locking the 223 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,200 thresholds that would create how thick or thin out, how 224 00:12:17,300 --> 00:12:22,400 transparent or opaque this is all this is designed and it's 225 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,000 also like what locks and what doesn't lock. 226 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,100 I feel like it's also part of that question of threshold 227 00:12:28,100 --> 00:12:32,800 spaces like so I also think that doorway is as we designed them 228 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,500 be they, automatic be they are very heavy, very hard. 229 00:12:36,500 --> 00:12:38,500 Do they have a lock to they have a window? 230 00:12:39,900 --> 00:12:43,400 In my last apartment, I got really into painting the door 231 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,500 jamb and just the door jamb. So I say the door jam. 232 00:12:46,500 --> 00:12:49,100 It's like they're kind of like inside flat section of a doorway 233 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,100 and like most of the time that's not any colors just like white, 234 00:12:52,100 --> 00:12:57,300 like the rest of the house, but I painted them like bright blue 235 00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,600 and it gave everyone. This little bit of a tickle they 236 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:01,800 were like, what is that? Yes. 237 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,900 And like, that's also the possibility of doorways or 238 00:13:04,900 --> 00:13:08,500 dramaturgy, or liminal spaces, is that they can be neutral. 239 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:10,800 They can be hard or Be delightful. 240 00:13:11,300 --> 00:13:13,600 We've been talking about the sort of poetic and sort of 241 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,500 lyrical and metaphorical aspects of doors in the first part of 242 00:13:16,508 --> 00:13:18,400 this conversation. But now we're going to really 243 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,500 talk about the history of accessible architecture and how 244 00:13:21,500 --> 00:13:23,400 the door plays out in that world. 245 00:13:24,300 --> 00:13:27,800 The first principle of Universal Design is Equitable design which 246 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,200 is to say that the design is useful to people with all 247 00:13:31,208 --> 00:13:33,500 different abilities. And the example that they used 248 00:13:33,500 --> 00:13:37,400 for a global design is that automatic door right in that, it 249 00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:41,000 is usable for a variety of Of populations. 250 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,600 Best Williamson is an associate professor of art history, Theory 251 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,400 and criticism at the school of the Art Institute of Chicago and 252 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,700 the author of accessible America, a history of disability 253 00:13:51,700 --> 00:13:54,200 and design. The idea of the automatic door 254 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,400 is it works for many populations, right? 255 00:13:57,500 --> 00:14:00,800 It certainly works for wheelchair users for whom, like 256 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,800 going up to the door and opening it as a whole choreographed and 257 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:08,000 difficult sort of spatial negotiation but it also works 258 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,900 for many other populations. Opening the door for someone 259 00:14:10,900 --> 00:14:14,100 else, you know, for if you're carrying a bunch of stuff from 260 00:14:14,100 --> 00:14:16,200 people who are using Walker students should we can think of 261 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,700 the way in, which the automatic door treats, you the same way 262 00:14:18,700 --> 00:14:20,500 we're Godless of what your disability is. 263 00:14:21,100 --> 00:14:24,000 So it really meets a lot of those kind of principles. 264 00:14:24,900 --> 00:14:26,800 So they are at the beginning of the conversation. 265 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,000 When you are kind of invoking, some of the doors that came to 266 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,500 mind, right. You mention access, can you talk 267 00:14:33,500 --> 00:14:35,500 a little bit about a little bit more about that? 268 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,100 Oh, totally. I mean, if we look at the work 269 00:14:38,100 --> 00:14:42,800 of like, Leslie and Noel, Around pluralistic design or Universal 270 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,500 Design. There is this airing towards 271 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,600 what makes this a good experience for more people or 272 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:54,000 for the most people and whether we're talking about doorways, or 273 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,200 stairways any of the thing that gets you from the outside space 274 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,100 is the inside, the interior of something needs to be accessible 275 00:15:01,100 --> 00:15:04,500 enough. That there's not a hesitation as 276 00:15:04,500 --> 00:15:09,100 a barrier. So as someone who is who like 277 00:15:09,100 --> 00:15:11,500 had a period of time, Being like physically, less able which 278 00:15:11,500 --> 00:15:14,800 happens to all of us at some point in our lives, I was sad 279 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,000 that there are so many doors that I couldn't push open 280 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,600 without asking for help. You know. 281 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,200 I think about like even a card or of its automatic versus a 282 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:27,000 card or that requires like a really a pulling I didn't have 283 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,500 the physical strength to do that and always had to ask for help. 284 00:15:29,500 --> 00:15:34,500 So can you imagine if only 10% of our public doors are 285 00:15:34,500 --> 00:15:36,600 automatic? And the rest you have to push 286 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,700 but you're in a wheelchair or you're pushing a stroller. 287 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:46,200 Euler or you are like, without one limb, or you're exhausted or 288 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,500 your fat, all the things that can prevent Mobility or ease of 289 00:15:50,500 --> 00:15:55,000 Mobility, can be addressed by things, like automatic doors, 290 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,100 like putting ramps next to stairs, we can design and go on 291 00:15:58,100 --> 00:16:01,300 this experience is together, because sometimes we look at 292 00:16:01,308 --> 00:16:05,400 these doors, it's like, well the front door is a push door, but 293 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,700 if you go around the side there's an automatic door. 294 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,800 Yeah. And like why are we Okay, making 295 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,000 side back. You know, embed doors of Shame 296 00:16:14,300 --> 00:16:17,600 for people who are in a different position with their 297 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,500 Mobility or their way of relating with physical 298 00:16:19,500 --> 00:16:23,500 situations. The features archive is brought 299 00:16:23,500 --> 00:16:26,000 to you by the design team at automatic, which is building a 300 00:16:26,008 --> 00:16:28,800 new web and a new workplace all around the world. 301 00:16:28,900 --> 00:16:32,300 My name is Amanda Portugal. I am based in the UK about an 302 00:16:32,300 --> 00:16:36,000 hour north of London, right? Near a town called Milton Keynes 303 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,500 and I look after technical recruiting for automatic. 304 00:16:39,500 --> 00:16:42,200 So I lead a team called dot higher and we are responsible 305 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:46,400 for the global recruitment of Engineers product people. 306 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,600 And anything related to Tech at automatic amandeep. 307 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,100 Found a new way to lead lead. But automatic is different to 308 00:16:53,100 --> 00:16:54,700 what of experience anywhere else. 309 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,600 It is a lot more fluid, a lot more open. 310 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,800 A lot more transparent. We're very open company and just 311 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,700 like, I guess the nature of Wordpress. 312 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:06,900 We are part of an open-source ecosystem. 313 00:17:07,300 --> 00:17:09,500 So you know, we follow a lot of that when we're actually 314 00:17:09,500 --> 00:17:13,599 working. Internally leadership is not 315 00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:16,400 traditional leadership. In terms of where managers we 316 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,599 called leads for a reason. We lead our teams. 317 00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:20,800 We don't manage our teams. I'm on deepest. 318 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,900 It to expanding automatics Global Perspective. 319 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,500 So what makes a good fit at automatic, the honest answer is 320 00:17:27,500 --> 00:17:29,100 everyone is a good fit at automatic. 321 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,900 The key thing is it's somebody who under who believes and 322 00:17:32,900 --> 00:17:35,700 understands and our mission. But generally, you know, because 323 00:17:35,700 --> 00:17:39,100 we are so diverse, we have over 1,900 people, I think it is now 324 00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:43,900 in 1902 countries, speaking over 100 languages, you know there is 325 00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:47,300 no one good fit for automatic designing a better web. 326 00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:53,200 Join us at automatic.com design. Auto ma TT. 327 00:17:53,300 --> 00:18:00,400 I c.com design. You just talked about this. 328 00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:03,900 I don't know if he called it, the doorway of shame or 329 00:18:03,900 --> 00:18:05,500 something, which is like around the back. 330 00:18:05,700 --> 00:18:08,100 This is very much a part of this conversation and, you know, I 331 00:18:08,108 --> 00:18:11,300 think really in architecture school at least when I was going 332 00:18:11,300 --> 00:18:13,700 through, we did a really horrible job of thinking about 333 00:18:13,700 --> 00:18:15,400 accessibility in the context of you. 334 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:20,400 Yes, it's true that in many cases form follows function and 335 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,000 if if so and we're mindful about what that really means then. 336 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,000 We should have been thinking about that a lot more, but quite 337 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,400 often form was the driver and form was Eating all 338 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,500 conversations. You would think that school as a 339 00:18:33,508 --> 00:18:35,600 sort of unconstrained environment would allow much 340 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,400 more dialogue around the balance of these things. 341 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,700 But I think we really do struggle in the academic world 342 00:18:41,700 --> 00:18:44,300 which probably translates to a struggle in the professional 343 00:18:44,300 --> 00:18:47,800 World which is I think you said like 10% of doors are automatic 344 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,300 and that means the other 90% are less accessible. 345 00:18:51,300 --> 00:18:55,800 Let's say or not as inviting. What's your take on that you 346 00:18:55,800 --> 00:19:00,100 know there's a way in which this idea Idea of like human centered 347 00:19:00,100 --> 00:19:03,500 design and kind of how it's different than kind of maybe 348 00:19:03,500 --> 00:19:05,300 architecture school. When you went to architecture 349 00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:10,700 school lie, where you weren't encouraged to think about who is 350 00:19:10,700 --> 00:19:13,900 using the door, and so, right. And that way, human-centered 351 00:19:13,900 --> 00:19:17,000 design is this kind of like really revolutionary idea of 352 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:21,200 like, oh, their user, like radical, right? 353 00:19:21,300 --> 00:19:24,400 And as you know, my critique of hcd in favor of community 354 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,000 design, is that it should be radical not about the individual 355 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:28,700 human, but about the community, you're trying. 356 00:19:28,900 --> 00:19:31,300 Unveiled. And I think that in community 357 00:19:31,300 --> 00:19:35,600 based design, it is much more likely that someone says, like, 358 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,400 are there, is there anyone who can't take the stairs, let's 359 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,700 think about what they may want. And that could be the friend of 360 00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:44,400 a friend of a friend, that was some, who's coming to a 361 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,200 situation. So, I think that there is this 362 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:51,700 like, there's an opportunity for a design to be Radical by 363 00:19:51,700 --> 00:19:54,700 saying, maybe instead of starting with a product design 364 00:19:54,700 --> 00:19:57,400 saying, is this for a man or a woman, an able-bodied person or 365 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,400 a, not able bodied person? So we can have some standards 366 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,200 that like just assume that we should make space for all of the 367 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,500 above as opposed to trying to respond to like the one 368 00:20:08,500 --> 00:20:10,300 Community member, who knows we need this thing is really for 369 00:20:10,300 --> 00:20:12,500 Community. The space should be physically. 370 00:20:12,500 --> 00:20:14,500 Accessible. That's a baseline. 371 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:16,700 Yeah, the Baseline should be and that's why I think that 372 00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:18,900 Universal Design is trying to do that. 373 00:20:18,900 --> 00:20:22,200 It's trying to set up some bass lines of understandings for 374 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,300 people who do products and services Ein to actually just 375 00:20:25,300 --> 00:20:28,600 like not make it look like the architect was a bit of a jerk 376 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,300 and Think about other people, let's hear some more from best 377 00:20:31,300 --> 00:20:34,600 Williamson. The double-edged side of 378 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,400 Universal Design is does making something Universal suggest that 379 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,700 it's seven. How common sense are obvious. 380 00:20:40,700 --> 00:20:43,500 We know that accessible design is not common sense. 381 00:20:43,500 --> 00:20:45,900 They're not obvious because it's lacking and so much of the 382 00:20:45,900 --> 00:20:48,100 world. So I think that pointing it out, 383 00:20:48,100 --> 00:20:50,700 but I think also remembering the roots of Universal Design, 384 00:20:50,700 --> 00:20:52,300 right? That they were developed by a 385 00:20:52,300 --> 00:20:56,300 disabled architect that he often thought in terms of what's 386 00:20:56,300 --> 00:20:58,500 enough. And then what's beyond enough 387 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,600 know what's really making a Space accessible and welcoming 388 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,300 will remind us that Universal Design does not mean kind of not 389 00:21:05,300 --> 00:21:07,700 talking about disability and in fact, if anything it needs 390 00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:10,700 talking about the Skokie more, but understanding it as part of 391 00:21:10,700 --> 00:21:14,800 serve all communities, Again, echoing what you just said 392 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,400 suddenly a best is asking for something more than just 393 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,600 Universal Design. She's asking for like, what's 394 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,000 beyond enough. It's not about just putting that 395 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,700 shameful door in the back. It's about reconceptualizing 396 00:21:27,700 --> 00:21:31,600 your entire approach. Yeah, completely that and like, 397 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:36,500 what a wonderful invitation and the invitation butts up against, 398 00:21:36,500 --> 00:21:41,400 or chafes with why we make a lot of our design decisions, which 399 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,700 is actually, About managing legal risk. 400 00:21:43,700 --> 00:21:47,600 Like when you look at the design of the majority of public spaces 401 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,400 and built environments, you're trying to keep things to code 402 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,500 and the code isn't like, well, this must be a welcoming space. 403 00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:59,600 The code is, it must be like a functional space and I think 404 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,900 that that's actually like part of this really interesting 405 00:22:01,900 --> 00:22:06,000 compelling and fasting. A moment we are in with design, 406 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,700 where what we're asking of design is for it to have like 407 00:22:09,700 --> 00:22:13,900 morals and values and Not be like a political or cause 408 00:22:13,900 --> 00:22:19,000 agnostic, but the ecosystem design is operating within with 409 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:24,300 like legal and governance and risk and like, fire restrictions 410 00:22:24,300 --> 00:22:27,300 for, how tall a door has to be in the number of places of 411 00:22:27,300 --> 00:22:30,800 egress and a limited budget. You can accidentally get to the 412 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,200 place where you're like well I mean I did it, it's it meets the 413 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,200 code. Yeah and what we're actually 414 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:40,100 asking for InDesign right now is like, what's beyond enough is? 415 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:45,500 Can I bring in a Meant to people to our Humanity to my value 416 00:22:45,500 --> 00:22:48,200 system. And that's a, this is, this is a 417 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,200 massive paradigm shift that we are smack. 418 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,200 Dab in the middle of I think in the capital of D design world 419 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,800 and you're dealing with this a lot in your work day to day. 420 00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,400 I mean this is your practice, right? 421 00:22:59,500 --> 00:23:01,200 Yeah. And we see and we see in our 422 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,900 practice both with our advocacy clients. 423 00:23:04,300 --> 00:23:07,500 This idea of like removing barriers my theoretical 424 00:23:07,500 --> 00:23:10,000 standpoint. But we're also right now betting 425 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:11,800 on a couple of projects with architects. 426 00:23:12,500 --> 00:23:15,500 We were approached by a really rad Architecture Firm as 427 00:23:15,500 --> 00:23:17,500 designing. An art museum and they were like 428 00:23:17,500 --> 00:23:20,500 you should help us and I was like I don't I'm an architect 429 00:23:20,700 --> 00:23:22,800 and they're like yeah but you think about accessibility and 430 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,400 community and sustainability in this like these values that show 431 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,700 up in your practice as things you can do design around and 432 00:23:29,700 --> 00:23:32,900 through and that is like a new thing for us that I'm very 433 00:23:32,900 --> 00:23:35,400 excited about. So I think that part of what I 434 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,900 hope for in the design of physical spaces, if we're 435 00:23:37,900 --> 00:23:43,200 talking about a mattock doors, is that we, we We think about 436 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,500 what it is, that should be standard in our spaces, that 437 00:23:47,500 --> 00:23:49,800 would make it more likely that everyone could participate in 438 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,000 using it. And you just said the word 439 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,200 welcoming bested said the same word welcoming this notion of a 440 00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:01,300 more experiential way of thinking about different aspects 441 00:24:01,300 --> 00:24:04,900 of our of our lived experience. So it's we are transitioning 442 00:24:04,900 --> 00:24:08,200 from the way that things are designed to the way that we 443 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,900 behave, when we're in them and the interactions that we have. 444 00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:14,600 And And that kind of continue this conversation on the 445 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:19,700 automatic door and welcoming and accessibility when I'm designing 446 00:24:19,700 --> 00:24:22,700 interactions, a lot of what I'm trying to do is set up enough of 447 00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:25,500 the situation that I kind of listed the behaviors in the 448 00:24:25,508 --> 00:24:28,300 responses, people around me are gonna have and then use that 449 00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:31,600 knowledge to design objects that have behaviors. 450 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,400 Wendy Jew is an associate professor at the Jacobs technion 451 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,400 Cornell Institute at Cornell Tech and the technion, it's not 452 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,700 just computer technology that people have. 453 00:24:41,700 --> 00:24:44,200 So, Social responses to they have social responses to 454 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,000 anything that behaves seemingly socially and anything that has 455 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,300 Intelligence or behavior, you know, even though the doors are 456 00:24:52,500 --> 00:24:56,600 not human people, still feel like they have social responses 457 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,000 to them. They still also social 458 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,300 obligation. Wendy primarily studies how 459 00:25:01,300 --> 00:25:04,400 people interact with Automation and she's actually conducted a 460 00:25:04,408 --> 00:25:07,700 series of studies around the idea of approachability. 461 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,500 In terms of how people interpret it interactions that they had 462 00:25:11,500 --> 00:25:14,300 with automatic doors. I was really drawn to the 463 00:25:14,300 --> 00:25:18,000 automatic door because it's an everyday example that people are 464 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,800 aware of and used to of what I think is a coming wave of 465 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,600 automation. So the fact that people interact 466 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:30,100 with doors everyday and in fact, interact with them so often that 467 00:25:30,100 --> 00:25:32,100 they're invisible to them and they don't even think about it 468 00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:34,700 is exactly why I thought doors were a great thing to point out 469 00:25:34,700 --> 00:25:39,300 as an example of what the future could be like and then one of 470 00:25:39,300 --> 00:25:43,100 the really important things for me was to point out to people 471 00:25:43,100 --> 00:25:46,000 the way that the interactions we have with doors, do break down 472 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,000 sometimes so the study that she had a researchers did set up 473 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,600 conditions in which the doors sort of appeared automated but 474 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,000 they were actually controlled by the researchers to either 475 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,900 respond or not respond to the participants as they Approached 476 00:25:59,900 --> 00:26:02,800 and they got these really emotional results from people in 477 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,100 this interaction. They will see that the store 478 00:26:05,100 --> 00:26:07,600 looks well-lit because there are still people inside and I'll 479 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,700 walk up to the door and the door won't open and some of the 480 00:26:10,700 --> 00:26:14,000 things I've seen people do in that situation are so 481 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,300 interesting. Sometimes people on that at the 482 00:26:16,300 --> 00:26:18,500 door, you know. So I think they don't think 483 00:26:18,500 --> 00:26:21,900 about it as its own entity until it seems to have some agency 484 00:26:21,900 --> 00:26:25,100 that is like refusing them and so then they are angry literally 485 00:26:25,100 --> 00:26:29,000 at this like you know panel that's keeping them from going. 486 00:26:29,100 --> 00:26:31,500 Where they want to go other people. 487 00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:34,800 I've seen will go and walk at the door again, but louder, 488 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,500 they'll move in a more exaggerated fashion. 489 00:26:37,500 --> 00:26:40,900 I love this because it shows that they understand there's a 490 00:26:40,900 --> 00:26:44,400 communicative component to their emotion that they don't normally 491 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,500 have to think about and they obviously think that the door 492 00:26:48,500 --> 00:26:50,700 not opening for them, is some sort of misunderstanding in. 493 00:26:50,700 --> 00:26:54,500 They are clearer about their intentions and the door will 494 00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:57,500 open for them. And I just think that logic and 495 00:26:57,508 --> 00:27:01,400 of itself is also just Using and beautiful and something we need 496 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,100 to learn from. And you know what's interesting 497 00:27:04,100 --> 00:27:07,900 is when the doors open for subjects, even if they hadn't 498 00:27:07,900 --> 00:27:11,900 necessarily been planning to use that door, you know Wendy's team 499 00:27:11,900 --> 00:27:15,100 discovered that people felt more compelled to like step back and 500 00:27:15,100 --> 00:27:17,300 like go through the door. It's like oh I've been invited 501 00:27:17,300 --> 00:27:19,100 to go through this door. I didn't want to go through the 502 00:27:19,100 --> 00:27:21,500 door but since it opened I'm going to go through it. 503 00:27:21,900 --> 00:27:24,700 People felt rude. Basically if they didn't enter 504 00:27:24,700 --> 00:27:27,400 the doors that open. So like you know, the world is 505 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,300 becoming increasingly automated. We Don't think of it becoming 506 00:27:30,300 --> 00:27:33,500 friendlier or more welcoming necessarily because of that. 507 00:27:33,700 --> 00:27:36,200 But how does this play in our complex understanding of 508 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,300 convenience, as things are becoming more automated, they 509 00:27:39,300 --> 00:27:43,200 are triggered by things. They're moving seemingly with 510 00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:45,800 with willfulness but not necessarily. 511 00:27:45,900 --> 00:27:48,300 Where's this going? You know I feel like our 512 00:27:48,300 --> 00:27:51,000 relationship technology is always talked about is if it's 513 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,200 going to happen in the future but we are see already have a 514 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,300 lot of these Technologies. Now I was living in San 515 00:27:57,300 --> 00:28:00,200 Francisco for a bit and I walked Ask what used to be a coffee 516 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,200 shop? I liked and instead it was a 517 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,800 robot making coffee for people. And I was like, Yay. 518 00:28:08,900 --> 00:28:12,400 It's like okay or, you know, I think any things we talked about 519 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,800 are like the Roomba. I'm like, I don't like vacuuming 520 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,600 and like watching the Rumba, which my friend says we should 521 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,200 put googly eyes on. Does actually make me pretty 522 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,400 delighted. I was like go robot-man go. 523 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,200 Yes. So like we have emotional 524 00:28:25,300 --> 00:28:28,900 relationships with technology already including the door. 525 00:28:29,300 --> 00:28:34,500 And I think, like part of why at flock Studio, we run a program 526 00:28:34,500 --> 00:28:37,700 called Community design for leaders, which is our intensive 527 00:28:37,700 --> 00:28:40,900 that we offer every quarter is because designers want to be 528 00:28:40,900 --> 00:28:44,100 thinking differently. And there's very few spaces for 529 00:28:44,100 --> 00:28:47,200 people who are on the edge of design, whether or not you work 530 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,900 at Deloitte or doblin Orson young or a smaller shop. 531 00:28:51,300 --> 00:28:55,200 There's a lot of designers who are like, can I make it nice? 532 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,800 Can I make it caring? Can I make it Equitable? 533 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,400 Or just There's not a lot of space in their practices to 534 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,400 figure out what needs to be different. 535 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,500 So I think the world that we want, where what we're designing 536 00:29:07,500 --> 00:29:11,900 is designed for Delight for being like, kind of tickled for 537 00:29:11,900 --> 00:29:16,000 a smile and the way that acknowledges the pre-existing 538 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,500 relationship we have or interaction, we have with these 539 00:29:18,500 --> 00:29:20,800 objects. I think we can make the world, 540 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,800 quite lovely. Actually, and that the dystopian 541 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,600 world is when we end up with just like police dogs that are 542 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,000 made out of robot Parts, like we don't want that, we want. 543 00:29:29,100 --> 00:29:32,000 Want the piece of it where it's like, you know, a little robot 544 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:33,200 that goes to the grocery store for. 545 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,500 You could be kind of nice. I don't focus on accessibility, 546 00:29:37,500 --> 00:29:43,300 I'm interested in politics of disability and architecture and 547 00:29:43,300 --> 00:29:48,200 cities in which accessibility might be a complementary goal, 548 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,100 but it's not the ultimate outcome. 549 00:29:50,100 --> 00:29:54,800 The ultimate outcome is for buildings and cities in a 550 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,700 multiracial democracy like the United States to increasingly 551 00:29:57,700 --> 00:30:02,200 represent ever greater Are and spensive kinds of Concepts about 552 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:03,800 what buildings and cities might be. 553 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,200 David Gibson is a professor of architecture and urban history. 554 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,400 At the Parsons School of Design. He's the author of the 555 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,600 architecture of disability buildings cities and Landscapes 556 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,300 Beyond access. Disability, always seems like a 557 00:30:17,300 --> 00:30:22,700 problem that has to be addressed by Architects or urban planners. 558 00:30:23,100 --> 00:30:26,900 And so, with our project, we wanted to create a world for 559 00:30:26,900 --> 00:30:29,600 people who are both disabled and not disabled and show what 560 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,600 disabled people can offer that's beyond a simply it is about 561 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,200 accessing space but that can maybe You Mabel you to rethink 562 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,400 how you connect or interrelated with your neighbor's property. 563 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,500 How you move through a block, how these things can be 564 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,500 reimagined, through disabled people, but that provides 565 00:30:47,500 --> 00:30:50,400 something much more than just access, but something very 566 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,900 pleasurable for everybody. I read. 567 00:30:52,900 --> 00:30:56,000 This is about doing more doing way more that we have allowed 568 00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,000 ourselves within our current constraints to happen today. 569 00:31:00,700 --> 00:31:05,700 Yeah, you know I'm working right now with the new school and 570 00:31:05,700 --> 00:31:09,800 Bloomsbury press on a book about the future of service design, 571 00:31:10,300 --> 00:31:12,400 which again just for people who are listening that are new to 572 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,700 service design, it is like how do you design a service like 573 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,300 Medicare or Medicaid or a laundry mat, or a childcare 574 00:31:20,300 --> 00:31:21,600 facility? I'll be things that provide a 575 00:31:21,608 --> 00:31:26,000 service says My work in, that book is to lead a chapter called 576 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,000 queering design. And I feel like all of this 577 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,200 conversation between, what bass has been writing about with 578 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,700 David's talking about your own experiences, as an architect are 579 00:31:34,700 --> 00:31:38,700 actually about how do we queer the process and the practice of 580 00:31:38,700 --> 00:31:42,000 design. So that we are less caught up in 581 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,200 like individual identity to David's point and more caught up 582 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,200 in. Like, what does this mean in a 583 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,600 kind of more Global or Democratic idealism? 584 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,300 I feel Let me go metaphor one moment because you know, it's 585 00:31:54,300 --> 00:31:57,400 something I like to do lie, you know, the word of a single 586 00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:58,900 identity of like I'm a disabled person. 587 00:31:58,900 --> 00:32:02,600 I need a different door, right is instead should actually be 588 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,300 about how do we organize ourselves around this shared 589 00:32:06,300 --> 00:32:10,000 political or power identities, which sometimes have an overlap 590 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,700 with your identity. So like for David's point, it's 591 00:32:12,700 --> 00:32:16,100 like, are we designing for people who have lots of social 592 00:32:16,100 --> 00:32:19,300 power or people who have less social power? 593 00:32:19,900 --> 00:32:23,300 So it's less about the specificity in the Entity and 594 00:32:23,300 --> 00:32:25,600 more about how all of those people who are out like a 595 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,600 physical or political disadvantage and the design of 596 00:32:29,608 --> 00:32:34,400 the building, their Collective opinion and needs is really 597 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,100 where we should design from. So that it doesn't become well, 598 00:32:37,100 --> 00:32:39,000 this is good for disabled people, but bad for Trans 599 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:40,700 people. We should look at it as like 600 00:32:40,700 --> 00:32:44,500 people who are marginalized or extracted from how do we give 601 00:32:44,500 --> 00:32:46,200 something back to them? How do we actually look at 602 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,200 design architecture automatic doors? 603 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,800 As a way to be welcoming into places that are like, Nourishing 604 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,900 for us and fun and like, alive and integrate all of us in our 605 00:32:56,900 --> 00:33:00,500 communities. Your description suggests like a 606 00:33:01,500 --> 00:33:05,700 radical reorientation away from difference towards some level of 607 00:33:05,700 --> 00:33:08,600 like where we where we actually are aligned, right? 608 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,700 It's not not looking for the separations. 609 00:33:10,700 --> 00:33:13,500 It's looking for the things that actually bring us together is 610 00:33:13,500 --> 00:33:16,500 looking for the shared power and it goes a lot into talking about 611 00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:19,800 democracy and how like the end stage of every democracy is this 612 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,700 like kind of suctioning extraction of All of the 613 00:33:22,700 --> 00:33:26,100 possibilities of power into the hands of the ruling class, so we 614 00:33:26,108 --> 00:33:27,400 don't need to go into all that today. 615 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,400 But in the design world, what it would look like. 616 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,900 Is like a few people actually decide what the codes are for 617 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,100 urban buildings in Brooklyn. It's like five people making a 618 00:33:37,100 --> 00:33:40,400 decision and what we would need in David's example of the world 619 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,900 is actually like a set of guidelines or or information and 620 00:33:43,900 --> 00:33:47,900 insights that say you're designing for, for full 621 00:33:47,900 --> 00:33:51,700 integration, not just inclusion. I want to go back to the 622 00:33:51,700 --> 00:33:53,900 automatic door. Or and, you know you'd said this 623 00:33:53,900 --> 00:33:57,600 earlier like the automatic door is it's automatically opening 624 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,100 and it's automatically closing and locking now. 625 00:34:00,100 --> 00:34:03,200 So I want this to end a little bit more optimistic. 626 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,500 I've got optimism for this. I do, I have this like image of 627 00:34:06,508 --> 00:34:08,800 the automatic door. It's like kind of like Wendy's 628 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,600 research waiting to open its just available to open it. 629 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:14,699 It's about right. And that's a conception of 630 00:34:14,699 --> 00:34:19,300 automation that we don't think of as readily like usually 631 00:34:19,300 --> 00:34:22,600 automation leads us to dystopian things but in some sense this Of 632 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:27,100 waiting to open and waiting to welcome is actually a kind of a 633 00:34:27,100 --> 00:34:31,400 beautiful idea. Where else can that exist in our 634 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,300 lives in the future? This like waiting to welcome. 635 00:34:34,500 --> 00:34:38,300 Yeah, I think it's like waiting to welcome is partly about like 636 00:34:38,500 --> 00:34:42,900 they're being a delay on the other side of the interaction or 637 00:34:42,900 --> 00:34:44,300 something. That's really aesthetically 638 00:34:44,300 --> 00:34:47,699 inviting on the front end. Like I'm sitting right now in 639 00:34:47,699 --> 00:34:51,199 front of my microwave and like if every time I push the 640 00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:53,400 microwave button or like King, Within a foot of the microwave 641 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,300 and microwave was just like, I'd love to have a snack with you. 642 00:34:56,300 --> 00:34:58,100 Yes. I honestly would find that kind 643 00:34:58,100 --> 00:35:00,800 of fun at some point, I know maybe it's like too much but 644 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,200 part of me is a person who lives alone a lot of the time. 645 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,000 It's like I want to be seen and acknowledged and I want my 646 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:07,800 things kind of like little kids talking to their stuffed 647 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,000 animals. Like I do think that a Smart 648 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:15,200 Homes can offer us like a little bit of softness or a little bit 649 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,800 of reminding us of what it is that we wanted to accomplish. 650 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,200 Like if the door to the gym in my building, Actually open, but 651 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,600 no other door did, I'd be more likely to go to the gym. 652 00:35:26,900 --> 00:35:30,200 So it's like, can we be strategic about the location of 653 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:34,200 automatic doors as a way to increase, like certain types of 654 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,900 Lifestyles and welcoming all of that technology shouldn't just 655 00:35:38,900 --> 00:35:42,300 be about efficiency. It should be about giving more 656 00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:45,200 Delight. Because if we're not designing 657 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,100 for Delight in times like these, we've missed one of the core 658 00:35:49,100 --> 00:35:50,900 design constraints. Which that things are hard. 659 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,700 Let's make them easier and more. Light-filled we have the power 660 00:35:53,700 --> 00:35:56,900 to do that as designers. Yeah, it's true. 661 00:35:56,900 --> 00:36:00,000 Like the function of the automatic door as it acts as a 662 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,300 shopping mall, versus a hospital, very different kind of 663 00:36:03,300 --> 00:36:04,900 invitation. It's a different kind of 664 00:36:04,900 --> 00:36:08,400 invitation, but they should all be like, I think if we're 665 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,700 talking about welcoming, we're talking about care. 666 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,400 And I talked before with you about, like, designing for care. 667 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:18,800 So, can the door be a way of indicating care like that you 668 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,000 enter this threshold and it's like, we're happy to see you. 669 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,200 We're going to care for you here. 670 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,800 Whether you're a mall or a hospital or even a court 671 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,300 facility, right? Like I don't believe in the 672 00:36:27,300 --> 00:36:30,200 carceral state, but if we're going to have it, can we make 673 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,700 things a little gentler for people to be like, hey, are hard 674 00:36:32,700 --> 00:36:34,800 things happening in your life? Welcome to his face. 675 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,100 We're trying to solve for it with you, you know, is there a 676 00:36:37,100 --> 00:36:43,000 way that again, our politic of kindness and of generosity can 677 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,600 be part of how we design, and I definitely think it can because 678 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,000 it is we just need to Fan those flames and bit, right? 679 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,100 And that's why we have this awesome podcast is to be like, 680 00:36:51,100 --> 00:36:54,000 have y'all thought about this? Thing in design and giving 681 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,400 people these little like provocations that may change 682 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,500 their practice a lot. You know, one of the things that 683 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,900 we were talking about with the automatic door, was this notion 684 00:37:02,900 --> 00:37:06,500 that it is sort of an invitation whether or not you double back 685 00:37:06,500 --> 00:37:09,000 and actually go through this door that opened like it 686 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,900 happened in Wendy's research, I'm not sure but it's an 687 00:37:11,900 --> 00:37:14,700 invitation to what's inside this sort of welcoming. 688 00:37:14,700 --> 00:37:19,000 But then there are the doors that like, are not automatic and 689 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,400 they never will be. So like I remember walking down, 690 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,500 Fifth Avenue, and A lot of those sort of high-end retail, places 691 00:37:25,500 --> 00:37:28,500 are, those are not automatic doors, they're big heavy doors 692 00:37:28,700 --> 00:37:31,600 that usually locked and you had to push a doorbell, and then 693 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,700 someone has to let you in. I know this because I do love a 694 00:37:33,708 --> 00:37:36,100 little luxury shop. Yes, gonna lie to you, right? 695 00:37:36,100 --> 00:37:38,500 And but quite often they're not only locked, but there's 696 00:37:38,500 --> 00:37:40,700 somebody behind them who's like, watching you. 697 00:37:40,700 --> 00:37:44,000 As you approach to determine whether or not, they think 698 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,800 you're the person who should be shopping at Gucci, right? 699 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:52,000 So, like where there is automatic door, there is hope. 700 00:37:52,300 --> 00:37:56,100 I think in many cases, right it's a signal is a signal of 701 00:37:56,100 --> 00:37:59,600 like we're trying to make this public in some way or is at 702 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,200 least a signal like this isn't exclusive. 703 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:06,100 But I can't think of like Soho house or he's like members only 704 00:38:06,100 --> 00:38:08,400 clubs they don't have automatic doors because they don't want 705 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,500 everyone automatically in and that's like a separate 706 00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:13,400 conversation for a separate day, but the place is like you said 707 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,000 that, like there is an automatic door. 708 00:38:15,100 --> 00:38:18,500 It does feel hopeful because it feels like an acknowledgement of 709 00:38:18,500 --> 00:38:21,000 community by saying like yeah, we want to make it easier for 710 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:22,200 you to get in and out. We want to do it. 711 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,800 A job unlike retaining, the cost. 712 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,900 It takes to keep the building high and cold but it is about 713 00:38:27,900 --> 00:38:30,500 like we have a shared space and experience here. 714 00:38:30,700 --> 00:38:35,100 Let's like lean into that. So maybe maybe the opportunity 715 00:38:35,100 --> 00:38:38,200 is to ask ourselves. Like if I'm designing something 716 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:42,100 that's automated what are the other ways that I want to show 717 00:38:42,100 --> 00:38:45,000 like a welcoming? Not like not just access but 718 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:49,300 welcoming I'm glad that we can end with some hopefulness about 719 00:38:49,300 --> 00:38:52,100 the future because I think so much of it is like we can be 720 00:38:52,300 --> 00:38:55,300 Super negative about the future all the time, but like for what? 721 00:38:55,500 --> 00:38:58,100 At a certain point it's good, it's good to see the hope and 722 00:38:58,100 --> 00:39:00,900 things and imagine where that's going to play out. 723 00:39:00,900 --> 00:39:04,000 So that kind of takes us, I think, to sort of our thought, 724 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,200 exercise for this week. And I'm wondering if you have 725 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,400 something in mind, that could be a way to reflect on the 726 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,200 automatic door and about convenience more. 727 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:16,200 Broadly, I think the idea that we can design for Hope is really 728 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:21,200 timely way, and I don't think I have like a list of like, what 729 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,900 does it mean to design for? A 12 bullet points in my TED 730 00:39:23,900 --> 00:39:29,100 talk. But like, if giving a little bit 731 00:39:29,100 --> 00:39:34,000 of space for Hope as a design constraint, which is like maybe 732 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,500 these things could be good, maybe this isn't going to be the 733 00:39:36,500 --> 00:39:40,000 worst case scenario, like even putting that in your practice 734 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,100 next week. I might even say like my version 735 00:39:43,100 --> 00:39:48,600 of that might be like, go on a scavenger hunt in your life, to 736 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,200 identify of type of design in your built. 737 00:39:52,300 --> 00:39:54,600 Moment, that makes you feel hopeful. 738 00:39:55,100 --> 00:39:58,500 Like, if we can start to see it in our own lives, it might be 739 00:39:58,500 --> 00:40:00,100 easier to start designing for it. 740 00:40:00,300 --> 00:40:01,900 I love that. I think that is the assignment 741 00:40:01,900 --> 00:40:04,200 right there. I hope people can tell us about 742 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:05,800 that lie. I know where a podcast, but if 743 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,800 they want to put in some comments at the on Spotify page 744 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:13,100 or on the Apple page or send in comments to you or go to the 745 00:40:13,500 --> 00:40:16,200 Instagram, I really am curious. Like if you're taking a 746 00:40:16,208 --> 00:40:18,200 scavenger hunt for a hopeful, this in the built environment 747 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,100 design, what are you fighting Lee and I want to know exactly. 748 00:40:22,500 --> 00:40:25,100 Slowly a, thank you so much. It's been wonderful 749 00:40:25,100 --> 00:40:28,000 collaborating with you this season and I look forward to 750 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:29,500 many more collaborations in the future. 751 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:31,100 Yes. I refuse to say goodbye. 752 00:40:31,100 --> 00:40:33,300 I'll just say see you later Lee. This has been awesome. 753 00:40:35,300 --> 00:40:38,700 The Futures archive as a podcast from designed Observer to keep 754 00:40:38,700 --> 00:40:41,600 up with the show. Go to ti-fa-da Designed 755 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:46,200 Observer.com or subscribe on Apple podcasts Spotify or 756 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,300 wherever you listen to podcast. And if you liked what you heard 757 00:40:49,300 --> 00:40:52,600 today, please make sure to rate and review us and do this with 758 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:56,700 your friends and make sure you're following me on LinkedIn 759 00:40:56,700 --> 00:40:59,900 at Sloan Leo. The features archive is brought 760 00:40:59,900 --> 00:41:03,500 to you this season by automatic. Thanks again to lorant stalder. 761 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,100 Best Williamson Wendy, Jew and David Gibson for talking to the 762 00:41:07,100 --> 00:41:09,700 Futures archive. You can find more about them in 763 00:41:09,700 --> 00:41:13,900 our show notes at TFA dot, designed Observer.com, along 764 00:41:13,900 --> 00:41:15,700 with a full transcription of the show. 765 00:41:16,300 --> 00:41:20,100 Our producer is Adina carp. Oh, and Agnew edits the show, 766 00:41:20,500 --> 00:41:22,100 thanks, as always to design Observer. 767 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,700 Our founder, Jessica health and and to design Observer executive 768 00:41:25,700 --> 00:41:27,300 producer, Betsy bardell.