1 00:00:00,100 --> 00:00:05,000 I don't think most people are trying to rip other people and I 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:07,000 think that is a very different conversation. 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,400 I think what were more interested in continuing is just 4 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,200 like better education and better knowledge that these 5 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,100 conversations are easier to have, so that both sides are 6 00:00:16,100 --> 00:00:20,400 better informed, talking about what it means to use other 7 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:29,000 artists work in your work. Welcome to this special edition 8 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,100 of design feature. Now, from aiga the professional 9 00:00:32,100 --> 00:00:35,800 association for design, my name is Li Xian zhuang director of 10 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,500 design, content and learning here at aiga. 11 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,500 And I am joined by our special guest today. 12 00:00:42,100 --> 00:00:47,200 Heather Mariah Dixon and Abigail Karen's from Studio, 8h MVD a 13 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:51,000 brooklyn-based woman, lead content, and branding studio. 14 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,700 Today we're going to learn more about Heather and Abby's 15 00:00:53,700 --> 00:00:57,200 Journeys as designers as photographers, Says creative 16 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:02,200 content, creators, but also focus on this topic around 17 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,700 appropriation and plagiarism and where to draw that line from 18 00:01:05,700 --> 00:01:10,000 inspiration to appropriation. So thanks for joining us on the 19 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,300 show today. Thanks for having us for really 20 00:01:12,300 --> 00:01:14,900 excited to be here. And this is a conversation, 21 00:01:14,900 --> 00:01:18,500 we're really excited to be having and something we talked 22 00:01:18,500 --> 00:01:20,800 about a lot in our practice, so be great. 23 00:01:21,100 --> 00:01:24,700 Thanks for the warm intro. Yeah, so I did the brief intro 24 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,200 but I always love to hear. Here, your own stories from your 25 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,200 own mouths. So tell us about your origin 26 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,800 stories as designers, but also together as a studio as a joint 27 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,200 practice. Absolutely, I'll kick things 28 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,300 off. I grew up with a really creative 29 00:01:39,300 --> 00:01:44,100 childhood was always in dance and art and all that kind of fun 30 00:01:44,100 --> 00:01:47,000 creative stuff as a kid. And then when I got to college 31 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,600 this sort of natural Pursuit that I thought was going to be 32 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,500 the best choice for me was Art. So, I went into printmaking and 33 00:01:54,500 --> 00:01:58,100 it's a funny story but as I was pursuing a degree in 34 00:01:58,100 --> 00:02:01,300 printmaking. I was only doing typography and 35 00:02:01,300 --> 00:02:04,400 reproducing ads and I told people that I wanted to be a 36 00:02:04,408 --> 00:02:07,300 commercial artist. So eventually I really kind 37 00:02:07,300 --> 00:02:10,900 Professor that I had at Western Washington University where I 38 00:02:10,900 --> 00:02:14,300 and a be attended recommended that I go downstairs and check 39 00:02:14,300 --> 00:02:17,800 out the design program and the rest is kind of history. 40 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,100 There, I ended up graduating with a double major in both, 41 00:02:21,100 --> 00:02:24,900 fine arts and design and then very soon after, you know, I've 42 00:02:24,900 --> 00:02:28,600 always been interested in fashion and beauty and luxury. 43 00:02:28,900 --> 00:02:32,700 So the Natural Choice for me was to move to New York and began my 44 00:02:32,700 --> 00:02:35,000 career. After moving to New York, I'll 45 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:39,200 keep this brief because it was quite the winding path, but I 46 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,500 freelanced at a variety of agencies, as well as 47 00:02:42,500 --> 00:02:44,700 independently. I sort of always had these 48 00:02:44,700 --> 00:02:47,700 independent projects going, no matter where I was at full-time 49 00:02:47,700 --> 00:02:51,100 or or freelance. Small business owner would come 50 00:02:51,100 --> 00:02:54,400 to me and say I have nothing but a name than a product and I want 51 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,900 to make this go live and I would Then figure out the best way to 52 00:02:57,900 --> 00:03:01,800 go through from strategy before I even knew to call strategy all 53 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,800 the way to photographing their products sometimes like on the 54 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:06,900 sidewalk. And, you know, just kind of 55 00:03:06,900 --> 00:03:10,300 this, very Scrappy Hands-On approach to making things in a 56 00:03:10,300 --> 00:03:13,100 really holistic and really considered Manner. 57 00:03:13,500 --> 00:03:18,600 And then at my last full-time job, I was fairly kind of 58 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,700 feeling stagnant. And then at night and early in 59 00:03:21,700 --> 00:03:23,800 the morning, I would go home and work on these projects that I 60 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,400 really cared about and eventually through Turn of 61 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,400 events. I ended up having enough work 62 00:03:30,700 --> 00:03:34,500 outside of my regular job that I was able to quit and I was able 63 00:03:34,500 --> 00:03:38,000 to launch Studio, agent, feeding, and 2018. 64 00:03:38,300 --> 00:03:41,000 I'll hand it over to Abby and then we can kind of sink back 65 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,200 up. Yeah, like she mentioned we met 66 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,400 in college. So I also attended Western 67 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:49,400 Washington University, I studied dance as well as design and so 68 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,900 because of those be my areas of focus, it also means since moved 69 00:03:52,900 --> 00:03:56,300 to New York as so we moved right around the same time. 70 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,200 My design path took a very different course. 71 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,000 I ended up in a lot more institutions like NYU and higher 72 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:07,000 education as well as other art specifically movement based 73 00:04:07,700 --> 00:04:10,200 programs. So a lot of times my positions 74 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,800 were straddling Administration and design. 75 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:17,899 So I was often in offices and things like that, where design 76 00:04:17,899 --> 00:04:20,500 and marketing needed to be integrated into the work. 77 00:04:20,500 --> 00:04:23,400 We were doing administrative Lee, whether that be programming 78 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,400 or the likes eventually, I ended up Pilates studio. 79 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,100 And I was working as their program director for their 80 00:04:30,300 --> 00:04:33,800 International teacher training program and throughout that 81 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,700 career, I picked up a lot about like, operations and the 82 00:04:36,700 --> 00:04:39,700 structure that goes into allowing, these creative people 83 00:04:39,700 --> 00:04:42,400 to really Thrive and make the work that they want to do. 84 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,900 And so that's kind of where I realized that this like, that's 85 00:04:45,900 --> 00:04:48,600 where my little niche was is like building structures that 86 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,600 allow creatives to really flourish and about that time 87 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,200 where I was hitting kind of a Apex at my job. 88 00:04:57,100 --> 00:05:00,300 My full-time position, Heather has started the studio about six 89 00:05:00,300 --> 00:05:02,600 months prior. And she was reaching a point 90 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:07,500 where I felt like she could like use some help and I just helped 91 00:05:07,500 --> 00:05:10,600 and I saw what she was building and was just like really 92 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:12,700 impressed by the work that she was already out putting as a 93 00:05:12,700 --> 00:05:15,900 single woman studio. And so I basically told her I 94 00:05:15,908 --> 00:05:18,400 was showing up to work and that she had no choice to. 95 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:22,200 And so I came on board and we started building that together 96 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:27,200 and Abby just showed up and I couldn't It's a no and didn't 97 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,100 want to either because you know she has a brilliant mind for 98 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:34,600 kind of constructing like more of a strategic approach around 99 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,600 creative work and kind of finding the way to make, like a 100 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,000 foundation. So that you can go do your best 101 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:41,600 work and you can go make anything. 102 00:05:41,900 --> 00:05:45,300 So after she joined, that's kind of when I consider the studio, 103 00:05:45,300 --> 00:05:48,700 like really truly beginning. The first six months were very 104 00:05:48,700 --> 00:05:52,600 much trying, a lot of different things in the first six months. 105 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,800 We also would take on any kind of project that was Ugly 106 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:01,300 creative in a lot of ways. I did book designs, I pitched 107 00:06:01,300 --> 00:06:04,200 for interior design. I, you know was really really 108 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,800 all over the place. Packaging misc like ad hoc 109 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,800 graphic design as well as branding as well as photography 110 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,200 as well as strategy and kind of just doing whatever. 111 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,400 I could get my hands on when Abby came on. 112 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,600 We really really streamlined and decided then in there. 113 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:19,900 Okay, we're going to do two things. 114 00:06:20,500 --> 00:06:24,100 We're going to create brand identities and whatever comes 115 00:06:24,100 --> 00:06:27,000 within the brand identity. So long as we have, That kind of 116 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,300 control over the base identity. And then further, we are going 117 00:06:31,300 --> 00:06:34,700 to bulk out our content creation side of the practice. 118 00:06:34,700 --> 00:06:39,000 So we're going to do photography and stop motion for campaigns 119 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,200 social media brand launches. And that's really what we stuck 120 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:46,500 with for the last, like, 3 years now, is those two areas of 121 00:06:46,500 --> 00:06:48,400 expertise. And a lot of times, they really 122 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,600 do overlap and have a lot of merge to them. 123 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:55,300 I mean, some of our projects are just branding and they start 124 00:06:55,300 --> 00:06:58,200 with strategy and and With brand guidelines and some of our 125 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:02,300 projects, start with strategy and end with photoshoot and a 126 00:07:02,308 --> 00:07:04,700 website and everything. All these different touchpoints, 127 00:07:04,700 --> 00:07:08,400 packaging, that we've designed, and we've had a hand in, on the 128 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:12,000 other hand, sometimes we get to just do product photography and 129 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,600 send it off and be done. And that's also really nice. 130 00:07:15,100 --> 00:07:18,700 So, yeah, and something I want to touch on here is just how we 131 00:07:18,700 --> 00:07:22,400 ended up being two trained designers that end up in, you 132 00:07:22,408 --> 00:07:25,400 know, photography and that's kind of an interesting image 133 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,500 making is a Very different side of the industry, right? 134 00:07:28,500 --> 00:07:32,100 And a departure from type and graphic design. 135 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,200 And that actually happened in a really interesting way. 136 00:07:35,300 --> 00:07:39,000 When I started the studio, I felt like, you know, I had this 137 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,500 work that I want to display. I was like okay I have, you 138 00:07:41,500 --> 00:07:44,800 know, these great projects, time to put them in the portfolio and 139 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,100 then when it came to putting them in the portfolio, I go. 140 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:51,600 Well I had custom collateral made for this or well this 141 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,800 mock-up that I can find online. Really does not make any sense 142 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,000 within this kind of brand world. Created I might as well just 143 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,700 shoot at myself. So I started going up on my roof 144 00:08:00,700 --> 00:08:04,800 with the kind of like mediocre digital camera I had at the time 145 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,300 and just photographing things in the natural sunlight on my roof 146 00:08:08,300 --> 00:08:12,300 with no Shadows around. And just started to kind of 147 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,600 build up some work and start to play and start to understand how 148 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:19,200 to style things and how to work with light and, you know, those 149 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:24,900 kind of Basics and then soon client started to see that work 150 00:08:24,900 --> 00:08:27,800 and say, hey can I Use this. Can I put this on my social 151 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:29,800 media? And I was kind of like, oh 152 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,700 that's interesting, do you want to pay for it? 153 00:08:32,700 --> 00:08:37,700 And at first they were like no and you know we had to work a 154 00:08:37,707 --> 00:08:42,400 lot of that but as we grew, it began to become a request that 155 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:46,100 we were getting more and more as well as we're able to prove like 156 00:08:46,100 --> 00:08:48,900 a we've done, you know, all the photography for this brand or 157 00:08:48,900 --> 00:08:51,900 we've done this for this. So yeah. 158 00:08:51,900 --> 00:08:55,800 And then as I became onto like we just learned to work 159 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:59,100 together. Even even farther and a be like, 160 00:08:59,300 --> 00:09:02,700 has a great Natural Instinct for styling and for building up a 161 00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:06,000 composition and we just learned more and more together on like 162 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,900 the technical aspects until you know, we've become a very 163 00:09:08,900 --> 00:09:12,500 confident studio in that area. How did you train up some of 164 00:09:12,500 --> 00:09:14,300 those previous clients to be like? 165 00:09:14,300 --> 00:09:18,300 Hey, this is an additional service, that wasn't necessarily 166 00:09:18,300 --> 00:09:21,800 an original scope and this is also something that you would 167 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:27,400 scope out and charge for well in a lot of cases I didn't And we 168 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:31,600 didn't I mean we would say Hey you know people would say hey 169 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,700 can I have that photo your can I'm going to repost that photo 170 00:09:34,700 --> 00:09:38,100 you took for your portfolio on my Instagram and I kind of say 171 00:09:38,500 --> 00:09:43,200 okay because we really didn't know better and also we really 172 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:48,900 didn't have the strength to say hey no to that client I think is 173 00:09:48,900 --> 00:09:51,000 a became on maybe you want to fill in here. 174 00:09:51,500 --> 00:09:54,700 Yeah I think strength but more the language we didn't really 175 00:09:54,700 --> 00:09:56,200 have the language to use to talk. 176 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:00,500 Clients about that, especially as we were growing in the in the 177 00:10:00,500 --> 00:10:03,400 early years about like part of that was the way that that our 178 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:05,600 contracts were written. They weren't written in a way 179 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,900 that was clear about scope editions of stuff like that. 180 00:10:08,900 --> 00:10:14,100 So that was an aspect to it as well as learning about licensing 181 00:10:14,100 --> 00:10:19,500 itself and what that actually means as far as usability and 182 00:10:19,500 --> 00:10:23,000 we're and length of time, you know, those were just like terms 183 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,900 and stuff that we did not understand and it took a lot of 184 00:10:26,900 --> 00:10:30,800 Missteps on our part. On top of just general research 185 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,900 and meeting other people in the industries and then being really 186 00:10:33,900 --> 00:10:36,500 open and Frank with us about, you know, what? 187 00:10:36,500 --> 00:10:39,900 We should be expecting and demanding of our clients and 188 00:10:39,900 --> 00:10:43,100 also helping them learn to because that's another aspect of 189 00:10:43,100 --> 00:10:46,500 this is self-education. But also educating the people 190 00:10:46,500 --> 00:10:49,800 that you're talking to because like licensing is not common 191 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:54,000 knowledge for people who are engaging with not work. 192 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,500 And so being prepared to say, Is the way that it is because these 193 00:10:57,500 --> 00:11:00,100 are industry standards and these are, or these are personal 194 00:11:00,100 --> 00:11:04,100 standards that we have as well. So yeah, that definitely took 195 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,000 growing and kind of to Heather's Point like we didn't really do 196 00:11:07,100 --> 00:11:10,100 very well, first kind of stumbled for a while. 197 00:11:10,700 --> 00:11:14,300 I think one thing that kind of was more more than telling 198 00:11:14,300 --> 00:11:18,500 clients that we had. Hey, this is what we need to do 199 00:11:18,500 --> 00:11:20,000 for this. It was more like. 200 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:24,200 Alright, the next client will start them on a fresh contract 201 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:28,100 that protects Us in that area or Or, you know, photography will 202 00:11:28,100 --> 00:11:31,400 be included in the scope and it will be clear that you know if 203 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,400 you want to purchase photography from us, that's an additional 204 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,400 cost. So yeah. 205 00:11:36,900 --> 00:11:39,200 Yeah, I think it's worth mentioning here. 206 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,200 Now that none of us here are trained as lawyers but certain 207 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,500 point you do want to work with a lawyer on your contracts and 208 00:11:45,500 --> 00:11:47,700 your licensing agreements and all of that. 209 00:11:47,700 --> 00:11:50,900 But there's a lot of it that we as designers as content creators 210 00:11:50,900 --> 00:11:54,600 can do just understanding what some of these Professional 211 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,600 Standards and Norms might And talking with each other in the 212 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:02,500 community but also talking with clients and figuring out how to 213 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,800 communicate that in ways that's more on the norm side. 214 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,400 In addition to the legal side with the help of lawyers. 215 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,900 I want to explore that a little bit more but first it just 216 00:12:12,900 --> 00:12:16,400 wanted to finish sketching out a little bit about your practice. 217 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,500 You have this interesting two-pronged practice with the 218 00:12:19,508 --> 00:12:23,500 brand identity and the portfolio photography content, creation, 219 00:12:23,700 --> 00:12:27,900 kind of work are there other Other Studios like yours that 220 00:12:27,900 --> 00:12:31,600 have these kind of dual models or how did you decide on this, 221 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,100 or do you have sort of analogs and direct competitors in that 222 00:12:34,100 --> 00:12:37,700 sense? So I think the closest studio 223 00:12:37,700 --> 00:12:41,100 that, that we know of is probably party of one Studio 224 00:12:41,100 --> 00:12:45,200 because they do both brand identities as well as this kind 225 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:49,600 of very sensorial art Direction and photography but there are 226 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:53,800 not to our knowledge. A lot of fully direct 227 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,200 competitors that do really, really Really, really, similar 228 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,400 structure to us. There's a lot of Studios that 229 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,600 offer branding and then they offer like art Direction but you 230 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,700 know, they don't shoot the photography and house. 231 00:13:05,700 --> 00:13:09,200 Or as we do for most of our work, sometimes we do art direct 232 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,600 other photographers. But like for our product work, 233 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,200 we shoot kind of keep the whole production process in-house. 234 00:13:15,700 --> 00:13:18,600 So there's definitely more. It's a growing industry as well 235 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,800 and a growing type of Niche. So let's talk about your 236 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:26,900 influences and inspiration then because you have these Various 237 00:13:26,900 --> 00:13:30,300 creative disciplines that you're coming from like, who inspires 238 00:13:30,300 --> 00:13:30,700 your? What? 239 00:13:30,700 --> 00:13:32,800 Inspires you in your creative work? 240 00:13:33,100 --> 00:13:35,400 Yeah, I think that's a really interesting question. 241 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:39,600 I mean, one thing that we always come back to just over and over 242 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,700 and over again. Whenever we're in a creative rut 243 00:13:41,900 --> 00:13:45,100 is where we live, which is the city of New York and being able 244 00:13:45,100 --> 00:13:49,500 to walk out our front door and look around and see kind of the 245 00:13:49,500 --> 00:13:54,000 layers of humanity and interest and grime. 246 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,700 And visual chaos that goes on outside of Our studio every day. 247 00:13:57,700 --> 00:14:01,100 So, I would say that that's one really, really large and ongoing 248 00:14:01,100 --> 00:14:05,900 inspiration for us and we will be like going to go Source 249 00:14:05,900 --> 00:14:08,500 props, from somewhere, to store and app, you'll be like, look at 250 00:14:08,500 --> 00:14:10,900 the are on that side. What's wrong with it? 251 00:14:11,300 --> 00:14:15,100 Yeah, we are often taking pictures of things that we see 252 00:14:15,100 --> 00:14:18,400 throughout the city and also our travels to specifically like how 253 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:19,800 they're saying like type is a big one. 254 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,500 Like we're often looking for like old vintage hand-painted 255 00:14:23,500 --> 00:14:26,100 type and we're just like, look at this crazy. 256 00:14:26,300 --> 00:14:28,700 Text or this crazy texture that I saw. 257 00:14:28,700 --> 00:14:33,900 Um, yeah that's definitely a big part of it in terms of people 258 00:14:33,900 --> 00:14:38,100 and kind of movements that we like there's a lot of incredibly 259 00:14:38,100 --> 00:14:43,300 talented artists and designers that we have both the privilege 260 00:14:43,300 --> 00:14:47,000 of admiring from afar as well as like knowing I'll just name a 261 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,600 few names that we've followed for a long time and enjoyed the 262 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,500 work of I mean I think it goes without saying in the creative 263 00:14:53,500 --> 00:14:58,500 industry we've always been a big admirer of In CO as, you know, a 264 00:14:59,100 --> 00:15:03,500 kind of earlier woman, founded agency, that's kicked ass for 265 00:15:03,500 --> 00:15:05,700 years. And then from that, like, some 266 00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:08,900 more contemporary designers that we've really enjoyed seeing the 267 00:15:08,900 --> 00:15:12,300 work of is likely. And Rosie's does incredible 268 00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:17,200 lettering, and really cool work Noemi lacaze, who part of little 269 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,500 troupe studio and does some really, really Kick-Ass Brands? 270 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,800 Bring a little itch. I think, is her last name. 271 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,000 Her portfolio photography is incredible. 272 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,300 She she's always had the best case studies ever. 273 00:15:28,700 --> 00:15:31,700 We also really appreciate the work from geography. 274 00:15:31,700 --> 00:15:36,200 Standpoint of Tyler Mitchell who, you know, shot book covers 275 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,200 and really does amazing things as well as very dear to our 276 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,800 heart. Our good friend, John Henry, who 277 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,400 has produced incredible body of work over the last few years and 278 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,400 we're just absolutely and admiration. 279 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:51,300 I have as well as from a typography standpoint were big 280 00:15:51,300 --> 00:15:53,900 fans of Trey, seals at vocal type. 281 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:58,100 So those are just some some name We'll post that in the show 282 00:15:58,100 --> 00:16:00,500 notes to but really appreciate you sharing some of your 283 00:16:00,500 --> 00:16:03,100 influences and also shouting out some of your peers and your 284 00:16:03,100 --> 00:16:07,100 friends and Industry on that point of finding inspiration 285 00:16:07,100 --> 00:16:09,900 just in your environment and the urban environment. 286 00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:13,500 There are probably things that you take pictures of that you 287 00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:17,000 can't attribute because you don't know who created it or its 288 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,000 historical or it's just through osmosis right? 289 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,700 Is things that you experience and then maybe you reproduce in 290 00:16:23,700 --> 00:16:26,600 some way. How do you navigate Ate some of 291 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:31,000 these fuzzy lines that I think all creative content creators 292 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:36,100 have to deal with between inspiration and direct 293 00:16:36,100 --> 00:16:38,400 appropriation or inappropriate uses. 294 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,700 How do you deal with this not necessarily on the legal end of 295 00:16:41,700 --> 00:16:43,700 things? Because the creative and 296 00:16:43,700 --> 00:16:46,800 Industry Norms side of things. I think that that's a really, 297 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,600 really valuable question because it's something that comes up a 298 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:54,200 lot, you know, where you, I mean there's been times where you've 299 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,000 been sketching and you've been making Long ago at your like 300 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,200 this is awesome. And then you look at the logo in 301 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,400 your, like I am just made the Pepsi logo like this just 302 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,599 happened to me because, you know, we're very like humans are 303 00:17:05,608 --> 00:17:08,900 very Visual and things kind of catch in your brain. 304 00:17:08,900 --> 00:17:13,000 And it's easy to find yourself in a position where you're 305 00:17:13,300 --> 00:17:14,800 trying to make something original. 306 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:19,500 But there's so much in the world that it's hard to even carve out 307 00:17:19,500 --> 00:17:21,800 your Niche and create something that's really different. 308 00:17:21,900 --> 00:17:25,599 A couple kind of techniques. We have for doing this are for 309 00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:29,700 one Starting like not on the internet, helps a lot in terms 310 00:17:29,700 --> 00:17:33,800 of finding inspiration, at least for looking at things that are 311 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,700 not what everybody else is looking at from the first 312 00:17:36,700 --> 00:17:38,900 get-go. It's always good to kind of like 313 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,100 look around the internet and be inspired by your peers and be 314 00:17:42,100 --> 00:17:45,800 inspired by current design but not using it as a starting 315 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,000 Place. Actually we find really does 316 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,800 help us kind of come up with fresh and original ideas. 317 00:17:51,300 --> 00:17:55,300 When you're looking like historical looking at what you 318 00:17:55,500 --> 00:17:57,300 see in. And then looking at thinking 319 00:17:57,300 --> 00:17:59,800 about what you like about that thing and this kind of goes for 320 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,400 any better inspiration. Why do I like that? 321 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,300 Why do I want to make that? Like, what about that? 322 00:18:07,300 --> 00:18:09,300 Makes me want to go. Oh, that is so good. 323 00:18:09,300 --> 00:18:11,600 I wish I did it. And what are those kind of 324 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,400 building blocks, right? Is it, because of the way they 325 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,800 use type, is it the color palette? 326 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,500 Is it? The combination of all those 327 00:18:18,500 --> 00:18:21,700 things? Is it some contrast in shape or 328 00:18:21,700 --> 00:18:25,200 Texture size? Is there some building block 329 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,000 that makes that good? And if you can kind of delineate 330 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,600 and Define that and you can look at that building block and go, 331 00:18:31,700 --> 00:18:33,300 okay, I'm going to make something really good. 332 00:18:34,100 --> 00:18:37,200 But I'm going to use the formula that used, I'm not using the 333 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,300 type that they're using. I'm not using the color they're 334 00:18:39,300 --> 00:18:44,200 using, but I'm thinking, I want a huge difference in scale, or I 335 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,700 want a million colors on this page. 336 00:18:46,700 --> 00:18:50,600 I want a really complex build up of three different typefaces and 337 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:52,900 you can make something that becomes your own thing. 338 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,200 It is totally original, but you're looking at that just kind 339 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,600 of intrinsic thing of like, what makes what makes it appealing? 340 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,200 So, that's kind of a recommendation as well as just 341 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:03,700 doing litmus checks with Yourself. 342 00:19:03,700 --> 00:19:05,800 Like you know, if you find something and you fall in love 343 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,600 with it happens to the best of us. 344 00:19:07,900 --> 00:19:09,400 Just coming back. Every once in a while, I'm 345 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,700 going. Am I making something that is 346 00:19:11,700 --> 00:19:15,200 for application and not original and how do I make original and 347 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,500 how do I make it my own specifically on that point with 348 00:19:18,500 --> 00:19:21,900 photography often? What I like to look for in our 349 00:19:21,900 --> 00:19:25,000 Concepts and what we're doing is like we shouldn't be able to 350 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:29,800 find the image we're trying to make so it's like if you are you 351 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,900 know, we've come up with a concept and what we've developed 352 00:19:32,900 --> 00:19:35,300 it within Strategy. And then now, we're looking for 353 00:19:35,300 --> 00:19:37,300 the inspiration. We're looking for lighting 354 00:19:37,300 --> 00:19:39,800 references, we're looking for textures and things like that, 355 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:44,000 and we should not through that research, like be able to find 356 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:45,300 the exact image that we're making. 357 00:19:45,300 --> 00:19:48,400 And that's how I know that we're, like, on the right path 358 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:53,100 and that we are truly being inspired versus appropriating or 359 00:19:53,100 --> 00:19:56,900 getting into that gray area. I think that you're trying to 360 00:19:56,900 --> 00:19:59,800 hint at, yeah, really likes your point about starting your 361 00:19:59,808 --> 00:20:03,700 research off the internet. The internet is great read. 362 00:20:03,700 --> 00:20:07,400 There's so much that you can get, but I think people are 363 00:20:07,408 --> 00:20:09,900 often searching for the same things with the same things kind 364 00:20:09,900 --> 00:20:14,100 of show up in people's search engine optimization feeds, and 365 00:20:14,100 --> 00:20:17,100 things like that. And so having something maybe 366 00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:21,300 older more historical or maybe more obscure that hasn't been 367 00:20:21,300 --> 00:20:24,400 digitized reason so readily findable online. 368 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,500 I think it's a great kind of creative Point as well as a sort 369 00:20:27,500 --> 00:20:33,100 of avoiding too much of the same kind of thing, but I think 370 00:20:33,100 --> 00:20:37,300 there, Ality is a lot of us, do have to do research online, and 371 00:20:37,300 --> 00:20:41,200 it's just so easy from a technological perspective, to 372 00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:44,500 have Pinterest boards full of things or create our own mood 373 00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:45,900 boards, and things that we find online. 374 00:20:45,900 --> 00:20:49,400 So I'm sure your stuff ends up in people's searches or in 375 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,200 people's mood boards and things like that. 376 00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:55,200 What are some of the techniques that you have used to protect 377 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,000 your work and make sure that you communicate the rights and 378 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,100 permissions of that to folks who are looking around and looking 379 00:21:01,100 --> 00:21:03,100 at your images. Yes, I will. 380 00:21:03,300 --> 00:21:06,200 I'll do a quick mention of course, there are always illegal 381 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,500 things that come into play with copyright infringement and 382 00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:13,300 Licensing that I've touched on before and always recommend 383 00:21:13,300 --> 00:21:16,500 talking to a lawyer about that and making sure that you're up 384 00:21:16,500 --> 00:21:20,400 to date on the awareness of like what your rights are within and 385 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,800 without. But basically, I think to answer 386 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,400 questions, like if somebody is using your image without your 387 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,800 permission, honestly, the best way. 388 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,000 And we use this pretty much. Every time I would say, most of 389 00:21:31,008 --> 00:21:33,300 the time, it's pretty effective is just reaching out. 390 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:38,400 And saying, hey, I love that you love my image but if you would 391 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,100 like to continue to use it like you will need to purchase the 392 00:21:41,100 --> 00:21:43,300 licensing. Or, you know, a lot of times 393 00:21:43,300 --> 00:21:46,700 what happens is. These images are being licensed. 394 00:21:46,700 --> 00:21:50,700 Most of our work is for our clients and so that professional 395 00:21:50,700 --> 00:21:54,000 work is often limited to an exclusive license that our 396 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,800 clients have. And so therefore, we have some 397 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,200 have to say, like you unfortunately don't have the 398 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,600 right to license this image. If you would like to work with 399 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:07,000 us, we Be happy to like talk to you about what doing a project 400 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,800 would look like so that you know we can create those images for 401 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:11,800 you. And I would say, most of the 402 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:16,400 time it's just met with, like complete misunderstanding of 403 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,400 what it means to license and imaging often, people don't know 404 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,800 that they're overstepping boundaries. 405 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:23,700 Yeah, that's a really good point. 406 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:28,500 I feel like it's important to have the lawyers on ready, but 407 00:22:28,500 --> 00:22:31,200 sometimes, like just the email is enough to just sort things 408 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,200 out, right? Sometimes it's just not. 409 00:22:33,300 --> 00:22:36,800 Knowing or it's like oversight of what somebody's intern pulled 410 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,200 this thing and or whatever that might be. 411 00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:42,200 So I appreciate where you're going with this of like assuming 412 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,500 good faith. Reaching out and then you can 413 00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:47,000 always escalate if you need to. Hopefully you don't. 414 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,200 Yeah and I think that's something that we find a lot is 415 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,300 that, you know, misuse of images whether it's like our work or 416 00:22:55,300 --> 00:22:58,900 you know, we see the misuse of our peers work as well, is like 417 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,100 it feels personal because it's work that we have made 418 00:23:02,100 --> 00:23:06,800 personally. So it certainly can feel like a 419 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,100 little hard to swallow and an embarrassing and a lot of like 420 00:23:10,100 --> 00:23:13,300 stuff can come up around that, but I think at the end of the 421 00:23:13,300 --> 00:23:14,900 day it's just like communicating. 422 00:23:14,900 --> 00:23:17,900 And this goes back to our earlier point about like having 423 00:23:17,900 --> 00:23:22,100 the language to talk about these things and like better inform. 424 00:23:22,100 --> 00:23:26,300 And the unfortunate part is that there is, you know, has been a 425 00:23:26,300 --> 00:23:30,000 norm of like it is, okay to take swipe and it is okay to like 426 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,800 have these images in your portfolio's and things like 427 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,600 that. Then areas that like are really 428 00:23:36,300 --> 00:23:39,000 probably you should be looking at licensing, these images and 429 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,200 getting permissions and things like that. 430 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,100 And the more that we have dialogues about like what 431 00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:47,900 attribution looks like and like what it means to uplift, the 432 00:23:47,900 --> 00:23:52,400 artist that you're being inspired by the better that, you 433 00:23:52,408 --> 00:23:55,100 know, designers and other creatives will get at using that 434 00:23:55,100 --> 00:23:58,000 work and doing the things that I truly believe they're setting 435 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,300 out to do. I don't think most people are 436 00:24:01,300 --> 00:24:05,100 trying to rip other people. And I think that is a very 437 00:24:05,100 --> 00:24:07,700 different conversation. I think, what were more 438 00:24:07,700 --> 00:24:11,200 interested in continuing is just like better education and better 439 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,600 knowledge that these conversations are easier to 440 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,400 have. So that both sides are better 441 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:20,300 informed, talking about what it means to use other artists work 442 00:24:20,300 --> 00:24:23,200 in your work and I think I'll call out specifically with 443 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,900 designers that conversation is really familiar, when were 444 00:24:25,908 --> 00:24:27,600 talking about typefaces. You think? 445 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,500 We're all very familiar with the process of like talking to a 446 00:24:30,500 --> 00:24:32,900 type Foundry and saying this is where I'm trying to use it. 447 00:24:32,900 --> 00:24:35,000 This is Many people and trying to use it for in this is how 448 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,700 long I'm going to use it. And I think if we can start to 449 00:24:37,700 --> 00:24:42,300 shift our mentality around like that extends to illustrators, 450 00:24:42,300 --> 00:24:45,100 that's going to extend the videographers and photographers 451 00:24:45,100 --> 00:24:48,500 and any other creative that you're involving your process, 452 00:24:48,500 --> 00:24:52,200 like should be held with kind of the same respect and esteem I 453 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,500 think that another kind of interesting point here within 454 00:24:55,500 --> 00:24:57,700 the differences between the design industry in the 455 00:24:57,708 --> 00:25:00,400 photography industry is just from a business structure 456 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:05,700 standpoint, a lot of designers Those are paid in a per project 457 00:25:05,700 --> 00:25:09,100 basis or they're on a salary or they're paid hourly for their 458 00:25:09,100 --> 00:25:11,400 work. And for the most part, when you 459 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,600 are making work for a client, you assign the copyright to 460 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,500 them, or you are hired by that company as a employee. 461 00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:20,800 So you're making work under their employment or you're 462 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,500 making work-for-hire work. And so a lot of times the 463 00:25:23,500 --> 00:25:27,300 licensing conversation is just very very unfamiliar for 464 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,300 designers, truly because that's not the way their business is 465 00:25:30,300 --> 00:25:32,800 structured. Whereas a lot of photographers, 466 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,300 a lot of Illustrators their business is, they may be 467 00:25:36,300 --> 00:25:41,300 commissioned to make a work but the kind of bulk of their 468 00:25:41,700 --> 00:25:46,500 earnings come from being able to continually license their work 469 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,700 and being able to continually leverage. 470 00:25:48,700 --> 00:25:51,000 The copyright that they have created that intellectual 471 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,800 property that photograph and being able to say. 472 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,100 Okay, so, so and so use this for five years, they had a limited 473 00:25:57,100 --> 00:25:59,300 license with me that license is expired. 474 00:25:59,300 --> 00:26:03,000 They've chosen not to renew so you can license that image. 475 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,200 It's from me now or I can list that image on a stock photo 476 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,000 website and be able to kind of have that passive income. 477 00:26:10,100 --> 00:26:13,700 And that's a big, big part of a lot of Image Creators earnings 478 00:26:13,700 --> 00:26:18,100 and their livelihood. So infringing on that is a 479 00:26:18,100 --> 00:26:22,100 pretty big deal, which is just a kind of yeah industry like 480 00:26:22,100 --> 00:26:25,100 misunderstanding and something that you know a lot especially 481 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,200 designers who are new in the industry or just graduated just 482 00:26:29,700 --> 00:26:31,700 don't know. Nobody, nobody teaches us. 483 00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:33,100 Yeah, thanks for sharing that personal. 484 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,400 Active on how these two industries, even though they're 485 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,900 adjacent have very different kinds of business and 486 00:26:39,900 --> 00:26:42,800 compensation models for creators. 487 00:26:43,300 --> 00:26:45,400 What are some of the other things that you wished more 488 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,800 designers? Or even clients knew about how 489 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:52,400 permissions and Licensing work? There's a lot of things, but one 490 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:57,000 of the kind of big things too is just that just because it's on 491 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,800 the internet, doesn't mean that you are able to use it, and that 492 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,900 credit is not enough. You know, saying, like Okay that 493 00:27:04,900 --> 00:27:09,700 photo was taken by Studio agency d, but I'm going to use it in my 494 00:27:09,700 --> 00:27:13,800 portfolio to promote my work, even though it's their image. 495 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,800 I'm using it as a quote-unquote placeholder image in a project 496 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:22,100 that I've done just crediting a any photographer is not enough 497 00:27:22,100 --> 00:27:25,300 because like we talked about with that compensation model and 498 00:27:25,300 --> 00:27:29,600 the kind of structure of the industry you're taking away the 499 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,900 opportunity for them to profit off of their work. 500 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,400 Because you're showing it illegally and weakening the 501 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,300 value that it has in a lot of ways. 502 00:27:39,300 --> 00:27:42,600 Because you're saying this is used with credit and that's 503 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,400 enough. And meanwhile, you're using it 504 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,200 for your own, potentially, for your own commercial gain, which 505 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,400 means you're making money off of somebody else's work. 506 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:52,800 So that's where it gets really tricky. 507 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,600 And I think that that's kind of a big one. 508 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,700 Is that like, credit is often not enough reaching out and 509 00:27:58,700 --> 00:28:02,300 asking is really the most important first step when you 510 00:28:02,300 --> 00:28:05,300 want to use an image. Image when in doubt just use 511 00:28:05,300 --> 00:28:07,700 stock photography. There's so many resources for 512 00:28:07,700 --> 00:28:11,600 free stock route, ography as well as low-cost stock imagery 513 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,200 and you can get really incredible imagery on like 514 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,100 stock. See and I'm Splash has tons and 515 00:28:17,100 --> 00:28:20,800 tons of images that you can use your attribution even required. 516 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,200 Although it's always helpful and nice when you can give the 517 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,600 credit to the original maker who put it on unsplash, and, you 518 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,900 know, there's just all of these resources for really high 519 00:28:28,900 --> 00:28:31,600 quality stock imagery. If you can't afford to license 520 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,100 from the photographer that you would like, oftentimes just 521 00:28:34,100 --> 00:28:37,700 asking, I mean a lot of photographers don't necessarily 522 00:28:37,700 --> 00:28:40,200 advertise that they're licensing out their work but they might do 523 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,100 it and it's just great to ask the other thing that comes with 524 00:28:44,100 --> 00:28:50,200 asking as well as you're giving that artists agency and how 525 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,500 their work is being used, which I think is a, is a big thing for 526 00:28:53,500 --> 00:28:57,900 us is that a lot of times when when work is is Miss credited, 527 00:28:57,900 --> 00:29:01,000 sometimes one of the most painful parts of that is, is 528 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,900 knowing that you didn't have Decision-making power in that 529 00:29:04,900 --> 00:29:08,000 and that it's like you know, you've lost like control 530 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,200 basically and I think that's something to remember to. 531 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,800 It's not like these artists who are creating photography or any 532 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,600 kind of like creative content. They're humans is they're all 533 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,200 like human conversations that were talking about and I think 534 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,900 that's just so important to remember in this creative work. 535 00:29:23,900 --> 00:29:27,400 I think sometimes the licensing conversation can get really 536 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,500 bummed down until like the business side of things which is 537 00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:33,000 super important, but at the same time, it's nice. 538 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,600 Remember that like these are just fellow humans that are 539 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,800 making art and pouring their Heart and souls into this. 540 00:29:40,100 --> 00:29:42,700 You know. They're working and and I think 541 00:29:42,700 --> 00:29:45,500 a little bit of the Pecos long way here. 542 00:29:45,900 --> 00:29:47,500 Yeah. I just wanted to add the point 543 00:29:47,500 --> 00:29:54,200 to that's often in this age of remix and of aggregation that 544 00:29:54,300 --> 00:29:57,700 things get decontextualized. And so I think that's an 545 00:29:57,700 --> 00:30:00,400 important part of these conversations of asking as well 546 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,600 of like, okay, what is this being used for? 547 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,100 What is it? Showing up next to or like just 548 00:30:06,100 --> 00:30:08,900 because you license, something doesn't mean you can modify it 549 00:30:08,900 --> 00:30:11,700 in certain ways or, you know, put a different border or 550 00:30:11,900 --> 00:30:16,200 packaging on something in a way that maybe is also doesn't do 551 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,300 right by the original work or the Creator's intent in terms of 552 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:20,800 the particularly of stuff like that. 553 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:25,500 So I think that that larger context around where the work 554 00:30:25,500 --> 00:30:28,100 will be used or modified or curated. 555 00:30:28,100 --> 00:30:30,100 I think is an important part of the conversation as well. 556 00:30:30,500 --> 00:30:33,000 Yeah I think that's an excellent point. 557 00:30:33,700 --> 00:30:37,400 And I think really well said, and I think kind of sums up a 558 00:30:37,408 --> 00:30:42,000 lot of like like what makes this so important to it's like what 559 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,700 what really is the idea here and something that you just brought 560 00:30:45,700 --> 00:30:48,600 to my mind to is like a lot of times, these conversations can 561 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,500 be a really great door, opener to collaboration, which can make 562 00:30:52,500 --> 00:30:56,600 both the work of the designer and the artist or photographer 563 00:30:56,700 --> 00:31:00,400 even better and even add to the context of the work and really 564 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,200 kind of like Elevate both aspects of this. 565 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,500 Listen and you know really opened doors to like taking 566 00:31:06,500 --> 00:31:10,200 these kind of two adjacent Trunks and merging them together 567 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,300 into one like harmonious peace. Maybe the clients even end up 568 00:31:14,300 --> 00:31:17,600 with something that's even more specifically useful for what 569 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,700 they're looking for, right? It's like it's one thing to 570 00:31:19,900 --> 00:31:22,400 license but you could also commissioned something new. 571 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,700 It's like in the style of this and then that turns into the 572 00:31:25,700 --> 00:31:28,200 collaboration. Yeah, absolutely. 573 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,200 So kind of unrelated question, can you tell us a little bit 574 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,200 about your setup? Anything you want to share? 575 00:31:33,300 --> 00:31:35,800 About some of the technical side of your craft. 576 00:31:36,300 --> 00:31:40,200 Oh yeah, for sure speaking is the resident Gearhead so we 577 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:45,600 shoot on a Nikon D810. Our favorite lens to use is the 578 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:51,200 105 millimeter macro wheel of a high-quality crisp every detail 579 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:55,100 and focus kind of image so that macro lens is great for us or 580 00:31:55,100 --> 00:31:57,000 that. We also shoot with the 50 and 581 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,600 oftentimes will rent an 85 mm lens. 582 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,800 If we need to shoot lifestyle, or portraiture, or anything that 583 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,700 you will Space on. And then in terms of our studio 584 00:32:06,700 --> 00:32:09,300 setup, we shoot with profoto lights. 585 00:32:09,300 --> 00:32:14,100 So we D ones and a D2 and kind of the modifiers, whatever 586 00:32:14,100 --> 00:32:17,300 modifier. We need to get the job done, 587 00:32:17,300 --> 00:32:20,300 while either rent or what, you know, use what we have. 588 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,000 We love grids which are these things. 589 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,500 You put over the light to make the beam of light controlled and 590 00:32:26,500 --> 00:32:29,500 very narrow, which is great for kind of highlighting different 591 00:32:29,500 --> 00:32:33,700 areas of image. We have lots of foam core Or and 592 00:32:33,700 --> 00:32:38,000 then sent a foil chunks laying around and clear rods and Tack 593 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,300 and fishing line and all that kind of things that you use to 594 00:32:40,900 --> 00:32:44,000 create a scene. And then one of our favorite 595 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:49,800 tools is diffusion paper, which is we can't stop creeping about 596 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:51,500 it. Everybody who will listen we 597 00:32:51,500 --> 00:32:55,000 will tell them about diffusion paper so if you want to have a 598 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,800 conversation about the benefits of diffusion paper, slide into 599 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,900 the DMS because we'll get back to you, talked to you about 600 00:33:01,900 --> 00:33:05,300 diffusion paper for Long and we will also give you a pamphlet on 601 00:33:05,300 --> 00:33:10,800 it and then yeah and then we Shoot Tethered using capture one 602 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:15,600 so that we can really really be very very detail-oriented as we 603 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,100 shoot. So every image comes up on our 604 00:33:18,100 --> 00:33:20,900 laptop screen and should we shoot and we see exactly what 605 00:33:20,900 --> 00:33:25,000 we're doing and we just tend to be very methodical and really 606 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,800 move through the image and pretty controlled manner. 607 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,200 Awesome. Thank you for sharing that and 608 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,900 for folks who do want to follow, Blow up, we have links in the 609 00:33:34,900 --> 00:33:38,100 show notes, but could you just say on my Canal if people want 610 00:33:38,100 --> 00:33:39,900 to follow you or learn more about your work? 611 00:33:39,900 --> 00:33:44,600 Where should they go? Our website is Studio, HMV d.com 612 00:33:45,500 --> 00:33:50,000 and then our handle on Instagram is at Studio H MVD. 613 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,400 So we're we're pretty easy to find on there though. 614 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,900 I will say our emails are the easiest way to get a hold of us 615 00:33:57,900 --> 00:34:02,100 at info at Studio HMV d.com. We're always on email. 616 00:34:02,500 --> 00:34:06,100 So, And we preach emails as well. 617 00:34:06,100 --> 00:34:09,699 So you know, we like to get lots of, you know, some feel free. 618 00:34:09,699 --> 00:34:12,800 It's like please email. Please don't call, please don't 619 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:13,300 shoot. Yeah. 620 00:34:13,300 --> 00:34:18,800 It's more reliable than DMS. Yes, yes, absolutely. 621 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:23,300 Absolutely wonderful. And so, if we could sum up some 622 00:34:23,300 --> 00:34:26,900 of the conversation and the messages today, if you had like 623 00:34:26,900 --> 00:34:30,199 a headline or telegram, you wanted to send to our audience 624 00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:31,500 about the essence of this conversation. 625 00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:35,300 What might that be? Be start from scratch. 626 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,500 Look at your Inspirations and find something new and 627 00:34:38,500 --> 00:34:40,000 different. But you know, your peers aren't 628 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,600 looking at. And when in doubt on anything 629 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,600 licensing, related it to a photographer or for your own 630 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,100 work. Just ask always better to ask 631 00:34:51,100 --> 00:34:55,199 then to guess we never guess we look it up plus one agreed. 632 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,100 So Heather and Abby, thank you so much for joining us. 633 00:34:59,300 --> 00:35:02,600 Telling us more about your practice of branding and 634 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,300 content. Shouldn't add Studio, H, MVD. 635 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,900 And for the having this Frank conversation with us about the 636 00:35:08,900 --> 00:35:12,000 different business models from photography, how it's different 637 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,700 from design. And just some of these Norms of 638 00:35:14,700 --> 00:35:18,300 professional courtesy and decency to other creators. 639 00:35:18,300 --> 00:35:21,800 So, thank you very much. Yeah, thank you, thank you so 640 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:22,800 much. This is wonderful.