1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,300 Welcome to aiga is fireside chat. 2 00:00:03,300 --> 00:00:05,700 This is day. One of the 2022. 3 00:00:05,700 --> 00:00:08,200 Portfolio Festival. Thank you for joining us for 4 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,400 this Fireside, and for the festival, please connect with us 5 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,100 and share your thoughts, the hashtags for this Fireside are 6 00:00:14,100 --> 00:00:17,400 aiga design and AIG a portfolio fast. 7 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,300 Now, it is my pleasure to welcome, Vinnie Johnson. 8 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:26,000 A IJ is executive director and today's guest art Chantry. 9 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,800 Thank you, Amy, and welcome everybody to this year. 10 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:35,200 Ears aiga portfolio festival for folio Festival is an incredible 11 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,900 time for us to come together to design Community, to get better 12 00:00:38,900 --> 00:00:42,800 stronger, more insightful about how we share the work that we 13 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:47,700 do, how we build better /, folios, we learn how to seek New 14 00:00:47,700 --> 00:00:52,000 Opportunities and to celebrate the work that we've done, we'd 15 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,300 like to start the portfolio festival with the Fireside, 16 00:00:55,300 --> 00:00:56,900 right. Our fire sides gives us a chance 17 00:00:56,900 --> 00:01:00,600 to have interesting conversations and I Be more 18 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:04,200 excited for today. You hear that sound? 19 00:01:04,700 --> 00:01:09,400 That is the sound of today's guess going against the grain 20 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:14,700 Unapologetic. Uncensored authentically him. 21 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:20,400 I am super excited today to have the opportunity to sit down with 22 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:25,000 the one and only art Chantry may be asking, who is he? 23 00:01:25,300 --> 00:01:29,000 And we're going to come about that today, but he is our 2017, 24 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,100 aiga met Alice. He was born in Seattle, but 25 00:01:33,100 --> 00:01:35,600 don't hold that against him. He was raised in Tacoma 26 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:38,700 Washington. Chandra is a graphic designer 27 00:01:38,700 --> 00:01:42,300 known for his poster and album cover designs. 28 00:01:42,900 --> 00:01:46,300 His sense of design started reflecting the punk scene in 29 00:01:46,300 --> 00:01:48,200 Seattle. Have you been reading Wikipedia, 30 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,300 again, a little bit of that, okay? 31 00:01:50,300 --> 00:01:53,400 Now that's a terrible overheating terrible, but you 32 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,600 know, terrible dark meaning to have somebody rewrite it for me, 33 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:01,100 but I just don't care. As I said, going against the 34 00:02:01,100 --> 00:02:03,700 grade. It's what I love though. 35 00:02:03,700 --> 00:02:10,000 Is this quote to the go from The Humble yet, Mighty poster to 36 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,300 being a part of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. 37 00:02:12,700 --> 00:02:16,600 The Museum of Modern Art Moma the Louvre as well as the 38 00:02:16,608 --> 00:02:18,200 Smithsonian. And here's what the Smithsonian 39 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,800 American Art Museum, said about you the ability to look for 40 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:26,900 Andre event, the out of fashion and purposely move outside of 41 00:02:26,900 --> 00:02:30,300 the mainstream International style, has resulted, I'll sit in 42 00:02:30,300 --> 00:02:34,300 your success in your work, being a meanie, exhibitions design 43 00:02:34,300 --> 00:02:39,300 magazines, and great success. Greetings, excuse championed, 44 00:02:39,300 --> 00:02:41,800 you know this great success, you can't win it, but you whatever. 45 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,100 That means the subculture of Desire. 46 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:46,600 Does that mean I'm supposed to be rich or something? 47 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,400 I don't know about in the background is this look rich? 48 00:02:50,500 --> 00:02:53,100 I don't know about that. But welcome everybody. 49 00:02:53,300 --> 00:02:55,000 Our good friend. Alright. 50 00:02:55,100 --> 00:02:57,000 Thank you for joining me for the Fireside. 51 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,300 My friend, it's easy. But I was promised to Fire it. 52 00:03:00,300 --> 00:03:03,600 Well, you know you should have a photo of one or something handy. 53 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:08,100 Just so you can show it to smart asses like me, budget, cuts, me. 54 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,400 Okay, all digital what? All right, let's start off with 55 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:15,000 this. Let's how would you describe 56 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:24,400 your bio? My favorite color. 57 00:03:25,300 --> 00:03:28,900 How do you describe my bio? Well, I I'm a self trained 58 00:03:28,900 --> 00:03:32,900 graphic designer, right. When I went to college, I wanted 59 00:03:32,900 --> 00:03:35,200 to believe it or not be an archaeologist and an 60 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:39,800 anthropologist, but I quickly drifted out of that and when I'm 61 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:45,800 going from major to Major to Major and then I ended up 62 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,800 pulling a degree in art even though Never made a painting in 63 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:55,900 my life, but basically graphic design was already the way I was 64 00:03:55,900 --> 00:03:58,600 putting myself through college. I just didn't even know what it 65 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,600 was. I literally found the term 66 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:04,800 graphic designer in an old gray piece magazine in a college 67 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,400 library and I go, this is an interesting, oh, look at all 68 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,600 these cool posters. Oh, this is what I do, graphic 69 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,200 design, right? That's how I found out about the 70 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,300 profession. The deal is that up until the 71 00:04:16,308 --> 00:04:18,500 60s graphic design wasn't even taught. 72 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,200 In schools, I mean it was Commercial Art was taught out of 73 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,300 those little ad. You find in the back of Popular 74 00:04:24,300 --> 00:04:28,300 Mechanics lid and sign painters, you know, the idea of it, being 75 00:04:28,300 --> 00:04:33,300 an academic course taught in a fine art Department in an Ivy 76 00:04:33,300 --> 00:04:35,700 League College. I still think is an utter 77 00:04:35,700 --> 00:04:38,300 absurdity. That's not where all the really 78 00:04:38,300 --> 00:04:40,200 great. Graphic designers come from in 79 00:04:40,208 --> 00:04:42,800 my experience. All the really brilliant ones 80 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,300 come out of totally different professions you know. 81 00:04:46,700 --> 00:04:50,700 Anyway, after that, I went It to the real world and ride, get a 82 00:04:50,700 --> 00:04:53,800 job, as a graphic designer and Seattle, particularly back. 83 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,000 Then was strictly a freelance town. 84 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:58,700 You don't get a job in graphic design. 85 00:04:58,700 --> 00:05:02,400 You go out and fight for work with about 1,000 Seattle's a 86 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:06,200 nice place to live so there's a lot of graphic designers and 87 00:05:06,500 --> 00:05:08,700 they're all out there fighting for the same work. 88 00:05:08,700 --> 00:05:13,300 That's a very small piece of a pie and so it was really, really 89 00:05:13,300 --> 00:05:21,000 vicious and competitive and I finally just Just got tired of 90 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:25,200 the graphic design world. I was just so nasty. 91 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,800 And so what I decided to do is all around me. 92 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,300 This pop culture explosion was happening in Seattle. 93 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,400 So I just basically walked away from fine, graphic, design, and 94 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:39,700 built right into pop culture. And since the early 90s that's 95 00:05:39,700 --> 00:05:43,600 been my focus is. I basically brand pop culture, 96 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:48,800 that's what I do. I designed were and try to It's 97 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,100 Trends and ways of visual thinking, I look at graphic 98 00:05:52,100 --> 00:05:54,900 design as language. And what I want to try and do is 99 00:05:54,900 --> 00:05:57,500 add a few new words to the dictionary. 100 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,000 Yeah, that's what I do graphic design. 101 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:07,300 You know, I since the Advent of the computer, it's drifted away 102 00:06:07,300 --> 00:06:12,500 from my branch of interest and has gone off into a technical 103 00:06:12,500 --> 00:06:16,400 wage slave gig. It's so different now right? 104 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:18,500 You know, I'm really bad at computers. 105 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,000 Cause I've just never learned how earlier today setting this 106 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,400 thing up, I pushed the wrong button, send everything in the 107 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,400 ozone and it took about 20 minutes to get it fixed 108 00:06:27,900 --> 00:06:29,200 computers. Don't like me. 109 00:06:29,300 --> 00:06:31,500 I don't like computers wristwatches. 110 00:06:31,500 --> 00:06:36,400 Stop on my wrist, you know, it's like, yeah, things break around. 111 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,400 Me my alarm. Clock refuse to go off this 112 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,300 morning, you know. That's II. 113 00:06:41,300 --> 00:06:43,700 Think I have a bad magnet in me or something. 114 00:06:43,700 --> 00:06:46,200 So, anyway, that's how I describe my life in graphic 115 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,000 design. Now, one of the things that 116 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,700 always struck me, is you talk about it humbly. 117 00:06:50,700 --> 00:06:54,100 So, but you talk about your approach, being a DYI, the 118 00:06:54,100 --> 00:06:55,800 do-it-yourself approach. Yeah. 119 00:06:55,800 --> 00:07:02,400 The DIY approach is I grew up really poor so that the ability 120 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:06,000 to fix a problem with money has never been one. 121 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,500 I've been able to enjoy in my lifetime, right? 122 00:07:08,500 --> 00:07:13,400 Um, so So, DIY was what I grew up with, you know, I was in a 123 00:07:13,408 --> 00:07:16,800 single Pam family, a single-parent household, and I 124 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,800 was the oldest boy. So if you know, the car broke 125 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,900 over here and if something went wrong with the electricity or 126 00:07:23,900 --> 00:07:28,400 the new we ran of heating oil or because we live in a rural area. 127 00:07:28,700 --> 00:07:30,400 Yeah, it was up to me to fix it, you know? 128 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:35,000 And I'm 13. 14 years old on okay, I still can't fix cars, 129 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,700 they dive into the my break more than I fix. 130 00:07:37,900 --> 00:07:41,400 Well, I'm sorry. That is the way I grew up. 131 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:46,600 This is my life and the idea of being able to, you know, fix 132 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:48,500 things with a new computer program. 133 00:07:48,500 --> 00:07:50,600 Well, how much do those computer things cost? 134 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,900 You know, I just, I do with my hands. 135 00:07:53,900 --> 00:07:55,500 That's what I learned to do. And that's what I do. 136 00:07:55,500 --> 00:07:58,800 Everything still with, I scan it in and colorize it. 137 00:07:59,300 --> 00:08:03,300 Do the digital pre-press because printing pretty old-school 138 00:08:03,300 --> 00:08:05,400 offset is gone. Now, it's all digital. 139 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,500 The result is that I have to have somebody to basically do my 140 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,000 A pre-press for me, just like I used to have a darkroom, 141 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,900 strippers set up my film, although I did a lot of that 142 00:08:14,900 --> 00:08:18,800 myself as well. So DIY is just how you do this 143 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,200 stuff. I don't quite understand the 144 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,000 whole technological interfaces being that important. 145 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,600 Now, when you think about it is you start at kind of using the 146 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,300 poster. As as the platform you did your 147 00:08:31,300 --> 00:08:33,400 first poster. Am I right at 15? 148 00:08:34,500 --> 00:08:36,400 It's like I was in high school in high school. 149 00:08:36,700 --> 00:08:37,500 Yeah. Junior. 150 00:08:37,500 --> 00:08:39,500 High School. Actually, I saw that must have 151 00:08:39,500 --> 00:08:42,000 been Not 15. You know 68. 152 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,500 Yeah. What when was the moment that 153 00:08:44,500 --> 00:08:48,000 you realize that this is where you wanted to go to that, they 154 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,000 didn't have a moment. Maybe it just happened on its 155 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,800 own. I didn't plan this as a career 156 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,800 choice at all. I just became it. 157 00:08:57,100 --> 00:09:03,700 I just found myself doing it already posters I started 158 00:09:03,700 --> 00:09:05,600 collecting a see. I started off as a comic book 159 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,900 kid, you know, like monster magazines. 160 00:09:07,900 --> 00:09:11,000 That's a Mad Magazine. I was never a sports kid because 161 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,600 I didn't have a dad. I still don't know how to play 162 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:18,400 basketball, but I have had baseball explain to me and now I 163 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:25,000 am fascinated by it, but the deal is that I kind of grew up 164 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,100 with in, with their own record. Company come through record 165 00:09:28,100 --> 00:09:31,700 covers and hip underground music became cool in the 60s. 166 00:09:31,700 --> 00:09:33,600 They keep moving. You know, I started buying 167 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,600 record covers and looking at these things. 168 00:09:35,900 --> 00:09:41,700 And that's when I started collecting psychedelic, posters, 169 00:09:41,700 --> 00:09:44,600 like, Avalon, Ballroom, and Fillmore posters when I was a 170 00:09:44,608 --> 00:09:48,600 little kid, he could find those things in head shops, hippie 171 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,400 shops, you know, even in places like Tacoma Washington and I 172 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,500 would find them and buy them and hang in my room and it kind of 173 00:09:56,500 --> 00:09:59,500 evolved from there into wanting, to do my own posters. 174 00:10:00,300 --> 00:10:03,100 I've done a lot of posters but that certainly isn't the A point 175 00:10:03,100 --> 00:10:05,600 of my career, I've done a lot of record covers. 176 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:11,400 I've probably done. I've done over 400 45 covers 177 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,700 alone you know then God knows I think I've done an equal number 178 00:10:14,700 --> 00:10:20,100 of LPS and then CDs Lord knows. So I mean I've cranked out when 179 00:10:20,100 --> 00:10:24,300 you treasure only $50 a pop you gotta do a lot of work to make 180 00:10:24,300 --> 00:10:27,000 Grant, you know? So I mean it's like these are 181 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,200 all bands that when I was working with them were living in 182 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,800 their parents. Basements kind of things we're 183 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:37,700 not rich Superstars, you know, I've never done a major league. 184 00:10:38,100 --> 00:10:42,300 Record cover for a major league band on a major label. 185 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,200 I've all the stuff I've been done has been done for this 186 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,900 guy's record label that he has in his basement down the street. 187 00:10:51,100 --> 00:10:54,700 So, the deal in plus, you know, all the work I do for the Post 188 00:10:54,700 --> 00:10:59,000 earring, has been for Community. I've always done an awful lot of 189 00:10:59,008 --> 00:11:03,300 nonprofit Irina for years before the, The Rock scene exploded in 190 00:11:03,300 --> 00:11:05,000 Seattle. I was doing loads and loads of 191 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:09,000 theater, and arts, posters for the pro bono organizations, the 192 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,600 stuff. I just found, I love the form 193 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,300 and it all stems back to that feel more poster. 194 00:11:16,300 --> 00:11:22,200 And in comic book, right? Upbringing When I decided I 195 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,400 wanted to be a graphic designer. I was already one when I 196 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,300 decided, like I said, I discovered the term when I was 197 00:11:28,300 --> 00:11:33,800 in college reading, a magazine. Nobody can go look up the word 198 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,300 graphic and you know the graphic arts is even changed me to the 199 00:11:37,300 --> 00:11:41,500 graphic artist mean printing. You know, when AIG a was 200 00:11:41,500 --> 00:11:44,100 founded, the American Institute of graphic arts. 201 00:11:44,100 --> 00:11:47,300 It was a printing Arts organization. 202 00:11:48,100 --> 00:11:52,900 Now, we do graphic design. Sign on a computer and there's 203 00:11:52,900 --> 00:11:57,800 no printing involved and yet we have this organization, you 204 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,100 know, it's it all changes. Everything changes is the only 205 00:12:01,100 --> 00:12:05,600 constant in life is change its change in one of the things that 206 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:09,600 we know it's constant but it's still always a source of fear if 207 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,700 we admit it or not the the notice of change. 208 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:18,500 So question for you what what InDesign scares you what in the 209 00:12:18,500 --> 00:12:23,900 work you're always driven. Point nothing after 50 years, 210 00:12:23,908 --> 00:12:25,800 should be near, get on this wall. 211 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:30,500 You know, it's like and okay. And I got to be honest every 212 00:12:30,500 --> 00:12:35,300 single project I get. I'm, I have huge amount of 213 00:12:35,308 --> 00:12:39,000 doubts, whether I can do this, it doesn't matter whether it's a 214 00:12:39,008 --> 00:12:45,400 logo for a good guy, down the street or whether it's a lord, I 215 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,300 don't have major league clients. Very often anyway. 216 00:12:49,300 --> 00:12:51,100 It doesn't matter how big or small Small. 217 00:12:51,100 --> 00:12:53,400 It is. I go through this incredible 218 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,800 doubt and then I go through an enormous amount of 219 00:12:57,700 --> 00:13:00,900 procrastination and Stage Fright, right? 220 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:05,800 But I've also trained myself over the decades to do this work 221 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,400 on an instinct level like a non conscious level, I think the 222 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,000 creative process is an unconscious or subconscious 223 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,300 process. And I've learned how to exercise 224 00:13:16,300 --> 00:13:19,700 that muscle so that even though I go through this Panic face, 225 00:13:20,900 --> 00:13:25,000 When I finally sit down to do thing, stuff comes out my hands 226 00:13:25,100 --> 00:13:27,000 and it's already fully thought out. 227 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:32,500 And that's basically how I've learned to do graphic design. 228 00:13:32,500 --> 00:13:34,800 I fill my head with as much information as I can about a 229 00:13:34,808 --> 00:13:37,600 project Panic for a couple of weeks. 230 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,000 Then when I finally forced myself to sit down and put 231 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,100 something out on the on the table, it's already there. 232 00:13:43,700 --> 00:13:48,200 It's like magic. Now what a 50 years to learn how 233 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,400 to do it they try to do it right when things I To talk about it. 234 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,700 I thought it was great. When we, we spoke about your 235 00:13:54,700 --> 00:13:58,900 experience early on going to interviews with your portfolio. 236 00:13:58,900 --> 00:14:01,100 I still do it. Yeah, I still have to do it. 237 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:02,000 Yeah. Fine. 238 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:08,800 Jewelry event itself Peter. Yeah, well, my, you know, to 239 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,300 begin with I've always kind of been this way. 240 00:14:11,300 --> 00:14:14,800 I mean, I wasn't always covered with tattoos and, you know, 241 00:14:15,300 --> 00:14:18,100 talking quite. So, frankly, like I do now but, 242 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:24,200 you know, when I was younger, I was You know, working class kid 243 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,700 that had gone to college and was trying to make it in a 244 00:14:26,700 --> 00:14:29,300 professional field that was run by unprofessional. 245 00:14:29,300 --> 00:14:32,500 So, I mean, the layers of confusion involved going to 246 00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:35,300 portfolio interviews. I mean, I've been interviewed, I 247 00:14:35,300 --> 00:14:38,600 show my portfolio to the some of the biggest names in the 248 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,500 industry. And I've also, you know, show my 249 00:14:41,500 --> 00:14:44,400 portfolio to the guy who ran the small Theater Company down the 250 00:14:44,408 --> 00:14:49,200 street for free, you know, so these people you don't know what 251 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,000 you're walking into, you know. Who these people are. 252 00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:57,000 And in my case, I was doing 45 portfolio, you showings a day 253 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,700 for months and years, trying to get a job and nobody would hire 254 00:15:01,700 --> 00:15:03,900 me. But I'd walk into these meetings 255 00:15:03,900 --> 00:15:08,900 and I might walk into a board room, full of like Bankers, you 256 00:15:08,900 --> 00:15:13,600 know, the the classic stuffed shirt terrified freaking people 257 00:15:13,700 --> 00:15:16,800 sitting at this giant table like you'd see in a movie or 258 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,600 something and then I'm 15 minutes later I go. 259 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,100 Another portfolio and I'm in an mou not a loft space with a 260 00:15:24,100 --> 00:15:27,900 bunch of long-haired hippie old hippies you know, gray long, 261 00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:31,500 hair dressed in Paisley and die die. 262 00:15:31,700 --> 00:15:35,400 And it's like how do you dress for a day of portfolio? 263 00:15:35,900 --> 00:15:39,200 Showings like that, you just kind of shoot for the middle and 264 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,700 cross your fingers but you just not going to see, you know, I 265 00:15:42,700 --> 00:15:46,900 finally after a while just quit, trying to predict who I was 266 00:15:46,900 --> 00:15:50,600 going to talk to in a set up accordingly. 267 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:56,100 I just decided just going to be me because the other side of the 268 00:15:56,108 --> 00:16:00,100 coin is, I've also looked at thousands of portfolios over the 269 00:16:00,100 --> 00:16:02,800 years in my capacity as a designer and art director and a 270 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,000 project manager. All blah, blah blah. 271 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,700 You you end up getting to know all the you you see other 272 00:16:08,700 --> 00:16:12,300 people's presentations and you learn just as much from that I 273 00:16:12,300 --> 00:16:14,100 also taught. So I mean I also dealt with a 274 00:16:14,100 --> 00:16:22,500 lot of students and When you, somebody hires you and this is 275 00:16:22,500 --> 00:16:25,300 how I found myself doing. I really wasn't hiring their 276 00:16:25,300 --> 00:16:27,700 work. I just hiring them, right? 277 00:16:27,700 --> 00:16:31,900 And if somebody came in and was like some new rotting real 278 00:16:31,900 --> 00:16:34,700 withdrawn thing that was, you know, yeah, I don't know. 279 00:16:34,700 --> 00:16:37,800 I just want to be an artist, you know, those kind of guys just 280 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:39,800 turned me off. Those just me the next day. 281 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,100 I'll next room. May think that's that. 282 00:16:42,100 --> 00:16:44,600 That's exactly what he's looking for, you know. 283 00:16:44,700 --> 00:16:48,600 But if I could talk to a person and they had is something 284 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:50,900 there's always something. Somebody does, right? 285 00:16:51,100 --> 00:16:52,300 That's one thing. I learned is a teacher. 286 00:16:52,300 --> 00:16:54,900 There's no such thing as somebody who can't do anything 287 00:16:54,900 --> 00:16:57,000 at all. They are you all you have to do 288 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,400 is find what they do, well, and focus on that and you'll watch a 289 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,099 flower open. So, finding something that I 290 00:17:04,099 --> 00:17:08,700 would hire them to do was always an option, but it is, whether I 291 00:17:08,700 --> 00:17:11,400 could work with this person, whether I can trust this person. 292 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,300 Whether this person was gonna walk out in the middle of a 293 00:17:14,300 --> 00:17:17,900 tantrum on me, you know which you know, a lot of designers 294 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,000 We're pretty erotic, bunch of people were pretty broken before 295 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,099 we even go into this field, you know, we make these choices for 296 00:17:24,099 --> 00:17:26,900 reasons. So, I mean, there's a lot of 297 00:17:26,900 --> 00:17:30,400 designers have gone through a lot of terrible experiences in 298 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:34,900 their life, just professionally. And so there are some of them 299 00:17:34,900 --> 00:17:37,900 who can be very difficult myself? 300 00:17:37,900 --> 00:17:40,800 Were just I got a huge reputation for being difficult 301 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,100 to work with. I'm an asshole or really it's 302 00:17:44,100 --> 00:17:45,000 perfect. You. 303 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,900 Yeah, that's the, anybody they'll tell you all. 304 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,700 He's got an art Chantry horror story, but that also has to do 305 00:17:52,700 --> 00:17:57,800 with being around for 15 years. The deal is is that that's what 306 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:02,600 I'm actually hiring the presentation of the work as long 307 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,400 as they've got something in there that I can spot that I 308 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:11,000 want to use, you know, they were safe but if they're going to be 309 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,900 a fussbudget weirdo or if they're going to be two slacker 310 00:18:14,900 --> 00:18:17,900 or if they're drunk, you know or stone. 311 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,800 God, I remember the first time I graphic designer smoked a joint 312 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,800 front of me. I was just flabbergasted, you 313 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,400 know, because I thought we were all professionals here and he 314 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,400 goes, you don't mind. Do you lights went up and it's 315 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,800 just like I had no idea. Then I found out how many Design 316 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,200 Studios are friends for cocaine trafficking it was like it's a 317 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:42,400 good place to hide cash. It was real disillusion name. 318 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:47,800 Let me tell you who I began to find out what a sleazy 319 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,100 businesses. It's like you're dealing with a 320 00:18:51,100 --> 00:18:55,700 lot of sleaze balls and that's welcome to American capitalism, 321 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,800 you know, so that nothing prepares you for the experience 322 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:01,600 of it. I think you got to go in with a 323 00:19:01,608 --> 00:19:04,200 smile on your face and think of it as entertainment. 324 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,000 So let's talk about the other extreme. 325 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,300 Let's talk about the elevated space. 326 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,600 When if we have you come in and really smiled and felt like you 327 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:18,200 your work, hit it out the park. And an assistant for the client. 328 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,700 This is just for you to even if it's beyond was just my well, 329 00:19:21,900 --> 00:19:25,100 yeah, you know, everything I do has an element of it for me, 330 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,000 right? I mean there's always something 331 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,000 in it that I'm trying new something experimental. 332 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,400 Maybe it's a printing technique that I've not quite mastered 333 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:38,600 yet, you just or might be a literary reference to something. 334 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,400 I like that. I throw into a design that's 335 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,400 only there for me, you know. Those are the things I find 336 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,700 myself. Living for when it comes out and 337 00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:49,500 it's there. And I look at it and I smile 338 00:19:49,500 --> 00:19:53,800 like, oh yeah, weird. Yeah, happy clients. 339 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,100 Well, all my clients are always Terribly Happy. 340 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,600 I do get fired once in a while, but that's a different story 341 00:19:59,700 --> 00:20:06,200 that's their fault. The deal is, is that when it 342 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:10,100 comes to clients, there's always more clients. 343 00:20:10,100 --> 00:20:12,900 You know, there's just always more clients. 344 00:20:12,900 --> 00:20:16,900 Just you can always survive on. Something there. 345 00:20:16,900 --> 00:20:19,300 So I mean you don't have I don't think we should worry so much 346 00:20:19,300 --> 00:20:22,800 about. The client as you should worry 347 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,000 about the project you're doing, because that project is going to 348 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,200 be there with your name on it. Long. 349 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,400 After that clients gone away long. 350 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,700 After that client might not even be alive, you know, 100 years 351 00:20:33,700 --> 00:20:37,300 from now that poster is going to be there and it's got your name 352 00:20:37,300 --> 00:20:41,000 at the bottom and nobody knows really what it was for, right? 353 00:20:43,500 --> 00:20:46,800 And you got to live with that. I mean everything you produce 354 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,800 is, your progeny is your heritage. 355 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,900 So I mean, you got to have that element of yourself in it or 356 00:20:52,900 --> 00:20:57,400 it's just not real. Which brings me around corporate 357 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,300 logos ever do a poster. And you have to put about a mess 358 00:21:01,300 --> 00:21:04,200 of corporate logos who gave sponsorships in the client. 359 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,500 Always thinks that one way to get a corporate sponsorship. 360 00:21:07,500 --> 00:21:09,700 Has put their logo on the posters, they get the free 361 00:21:09,700 --> 00:21:12,600 advertising, so it's NASCAR Experience. 362 00:21:13,300 --> 00:21:15,400 Poster. Okay, it was for a pool 363 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,700 tournament in a Tavern. But it had a lot of rock stars 364 00:21:19,700 --> 00:21:22,200 involved in it, so a lot of Corporations want to and they 365 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,000 basically the corporate donations became their profit 366 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:31,900 Center. 36 logos. Wow, I basically ended up 367 00:21:31,900 --> 00:21:35,600 designing a poster that was tall and skinny in the top half was 368 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,100 the poster which is just a black and white poster. 369 00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:41,000 We're not talking full color crazy, but it was a cheap black 370 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:45,300 and white poster and the bottom half of the poster is just 371 00:21:45,300 --> 00:21:49,300 corporate logos. Literally it was a 50-50 372 00:21:50,100 --> 00:21:52,100 Arrangement. That's how many friggin logos 373 00:21:52,300 --> 00:21:54,700 and that's what I decided that this was really stupid. 374 00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:58,800 I'm not putting corporate unless they're paying me because he had 375 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,200 to ride on an art. Chantry poster all the way into 376 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,600 the art museum for 100 years. Always, paying me for that bad 377 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:10,700 space, the associated with my name, you know, you can play the 378 00:22:10,700 --> 00:22:13,900 game, any way you want, but you got to have, you got to have 379 00:22:13,900 --> 00:22:17,400 personal standards, because you gotta have a few And you gotta 380 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,600 live by those rules and tried do your best or else. 381 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,900 You're going to end up being one of those scumbags. 382 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,300 So you know, I'm going to go back to when you first started 383 00:22:25,300 --> 00:22:29,800 talking about your first career though that you want it to be 384 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,600 for lack of a better phrase. You want to be Indiana Jones. 385 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,200 All right? You wanted to seek Adventure. 386 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:38,100 You wanted to find artifacts well I see what you're saying. 387 00:22:38,100 --> 00:22:39,900 Okay. Yeah yeah, yeah. 388 00:22:39,900 --> 00:22:42,600 Well not, when I see your work. Now you're always kind of 389 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,300 picking up things cultural artifacts along the way. 390 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:46,600 Oh yeah. No. 391 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,000 About pal that experience because it's so much a part of 392 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:53,500 what you do now. Well, I mean I really wanted to 393 00:22:53,500 --> 00:22:55,700 be an archaeologist when I was a little kid sassy and by 394 00:22:55,700 --> 00:22:57,600 egyptology and all that good stuff. 395 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,000 And so I when I went to college, I wanted to be a scientist and I 396 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,600 thought, you know, archaeology was science, which it's not 397 00:23:05,700 --> 00:23:13,400 really it's something else. What I began to realize was, 398 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,500 well, I was already doing that stuff. 399 00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:19,500 I was collecting comic books but you know, I was collecting 400 00:23:19,500 --> 00:23:22,100 things, I collected stamps, I could bottle caps, I got and 401 00:23:22,500 --> 00:23:24,600 Rocks. I collected you know I just 402 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,900 collected crap. I mean I come from a family of 403 00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:29,800 Hoarders, okay? You know, it runs in the blood, 404 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,700 it is genetic fault. So the deal is that I was 405 00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:38,500 already Gathering Collections and as I went into this, if 406 00:23:38,500 --> 00:23:41,400 drifted into graphic design through my collections 407 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,800 essentially and I want to be an anthropologist I want to be an 408 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,100 archaeologist a dig up ancient civilizations. 409 00:23:47,100 --> 00:23:49,400 I saw I was doing the same thing, right? 410 00:23:49,500 --> 00:23:52,300 You know, every what was the difference who I was doing? 411 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,600 The only difference was, is that the anthropology in the 412 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,500 archaeology? I was doing was contemporary, 413 00:23:58,900 --> 00:24:01,700 you know. I was digging into last week 414 00:24:01,700 --> 00:24:07,000 comic book that just came out versus, you know, a 5000 year 415 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,900 old pyramid. Quick, tell me who designed the 416 00:24:09,908 --> 00:24:15,600 first pyramid that becomes my interest point, right? 417 00:24:15,700 --> 00:24:19,300 Who do that comic book last? That I bought that spied issues 418 00:24:19,300 --> 00:24:21,800 Spider-Man, you know, Johnny remitted, when he was great. 419 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,400 How many people Who he is anymore, Imhotep? 420 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,500 Would design the first pyramid and he was one of my heroes when 421 00:24:28,500 --> 00:24:31,200 I was a little kid, you know? So I mean it was this kind of 422 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:36,100 confusion of now and then archaeology versus contemporary. 423 00:24:36,300 --> 00:24:40,600 I began to figure out as I was working on posters that you 424 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,600 know, all these images were actually just kind of like 425 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:49,500 words, right? I mean, we all know what yellow 426 00:24:49,500 --> 00:24:51,400 means, we all know what red means. 427 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,700 I mean, we can't Maybe describe what it means but we think about 428 00:24:54,700 --> 00:24:56,300 it and we have this reaction, right? 429 00:24:56,300 --> 00:24:59,800 It's the same thing with, you know, shapes and textures and 430 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,700 colors and and and then you start to get into iconography 431 00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:05,700 and actual images. You know, we all know what a 432 00:25:05,700 --> 00:25:08,800 heart means of use a heart. That's saying something dramatic 433 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,800 weather. If the heart has a dagger in it 434 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,200 means something else entirely especially if you're from tattoo 435 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,200 underground culture, which has its own definitions. 436 00:25:15,500 --> 00:25:18,200 You know, you start going into this and you begin to realize 437 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,300 you're doing a little language fun, right? 438 00:25:20,300 --> 00:25:26,100 This is this is In fact, words themselves, a little graphic 439 00:25:26,100 --> 00:25:29,000 squiggles. There was a letter, alphabets 440 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,300 are little black and white squiggles that when put together 441 00:25:32,300 --> 00:25:36,300 in certain combinations have meaning for us, you know, this 442 00:25:36,300 --> 00:25:38,600 combination means table, right there. 443 00:25:39,100 --> 00:25:42,000 So, I mean, it's like we and we all know this, and we get to a 444 00:25:42,008 --> 00:25:45,100 point where it's so instinctive, we don't even realize we're 445 00:25:45,100 --> 00:25:50,500 reading this constantly around us and that realization that 446 00:25:50,500 --> 00:25:54,900 you're actually not. Not drawing pictures, you're 447 00:25:54,900 --> 00:26:00,400 writing stories, right? Is was the transition point that 448 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:05,600 aha moment for me, it was like, oh, and that's when I began to 449 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:10,400 just include all this crap that I've got in my head that I'm 450 00:26:10,900 --> 00:26:13,200 utterly fascinated by subcultures. 451 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,500 I'm a dirty fascinated by pop culture. 452 00:26:15,500 --> 00:26:17,900 I'm utterly fascinated by ancient history. 453 00:26:18,500 --> 00:26:22,200 I mean, I just I'm fascinated by this. 454 00:26:23,900 --> 00:26:29,700 This spiral of meaning that the human animal imposes on his 455 00:26:29,700 --> 00:26:33,200 environment, you know, it's like you see this thing right here, 456 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:38,600 this okay, you know, nature sees that as a rock, okay? 457 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,200 You see this this coin right here, right, that's metal. 458 00:26:45,700 --> 00:26:49,900 Nature sees this as a rock. It's just a rock. 459 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,800 It's, you get tossed out there, it becomes just part of the 460 00:26:52,808 --> 00:26:54,200 environment. Like this rock. 461 00:26:54,900 --> 00:26:57,900 We have taken this rock and melted it and done all this 462 00:26:57,900 --> 00:27:02,000 imagery and shape and meaning to it and it's no longer a rock. 463 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,900 Hmm. It's a coin and it was designed 464 00:27:04,900 --> 00:27:08,300 by a designer, you know, and designed kind of looks like art. 465 00:27:08,300 --> 00:27:10,500 Therefore we teach at an art departments, when it should be 466 00:27:10,500 --> 00:27:16,100 taught in its own department. And Fine Art should be a Area of 467 00:27:16,100 --> 00:27:19,000 the graphic design world, and it's not the other way around. 468 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:27,100 So, So basically, yeah, I've obviously lost the point of your 469 00:27:27,100 --> 00:27:31,600 question a long time ago. I might get there, but if it's 470 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,900 like this is these are the kinds of ideas. 471 00:27:33,900 --> 00:27:39,700 I'm constantly working with the whole structure of the Fine 472 00:27:39,700 --> 00:27:44,000 Design world and hierarchy and rising up in a corporate ladder 473 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,700 and I'll, that know, that's real. 474 00:27:45,700 --> 00:27:48,100 None of that even exists. I've been doing this for 50 475 00:27:48,100 --> 00:27:50,500 years and there has never been a ladder for me to climb. 476 00:27:51,300 --> 00:27:54,000 And I finally just went on On and just created my own world 477 00:27:54,500 --> 00:27:58,200 and that's when end up getting any edgy metal yet. 478 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:04,900 Another rock. So Well you might my best my 479 00:28:04,900 --> 00:28:07,500 when it comes to portfolios is be authentic. 480 00:28:07,500 --> 00:28:12,400 Be who you are you know and as far as the stuff you put in your 481 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,100 portfolio Take Your Best Shot. You never going to hit it. 482 00:28:15,100 --> 00:28:17,300 Dead on. You know, you're going to walk 483 00:28:17,300 --> 00:28:20,100 into a corporate office of bankers and you've got a punk 484 00:28:20,100 --> 00:28:23,600 poster, you know, you just have to cross your fingers that these 485 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,200 people know what they're looking at, but there's nobody ever 486 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,100 does. I mean, it's like even aiga 487 00:28:28,100 --> 00:28:31,700 thinks of me as a poster artist primarily that's maybe about a 488 00:28:31,700 --> 00:28:33,900 quarter. My output over the years, I've 489 00:28:33,900 --> 00:28:36,000 probably done more logos that neither thing. 490 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,300 Nobody talks about me as being a logo designer. 491 00:28:38,300 --> 00:28:41,800 You know, that's just other people's perceptions of what 492 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,700 they have actually seen. You know, I think the reason 493 00:28:44,700 --> 00:28:47,700 they know my posters is because I used to enter design contest 494 00:28:47,700 --> 00:28:50,300 for years and years and that's what I'd entered because we were 495 00:28:50,300 --> 00:28:54,700 spectacular logos, you know, I wrote sometimes enter those but 496 00:28:54,900 --> 00:28:56,200 you know, nobody knows about those. 497 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,700 You know, you ever seen my letterhead collection that I've 498 00:28:58,700 --> 00:29:02,000 designed no because nobody even knows what a letter. 499 00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:05,900 It is anymore, right? Remember letterheads remember 500 00:29:05,900 --> 00:29:08,400 how nice those things? Give me that they were beautiful 501 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,800 especially when he started getting some exotic printing on 502 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,200 them and papers. And yeah, that's a lost art. 503 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,000 I'm going to ask you a question and I'm a pause before I ask it 504 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,800 because I know what I'm about to unleash. 505 00:29:19,100 --> 00:29:22,100 What gets you fired up today? Nothing. 506 00:29:22,300 --> 00:29:26,000 I'm thinking all the time. Yeah, it's just everything's 507 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,700 off. What gets me fired up these 508 00:29:28,700 --> 00:29:32,600 days. Peace and quiet. 509 00:29:32,900 --> 00:29:35,400 I mean one of the things about my career is it's never been 510 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,100 dull. I have I have seen things that 511 00:29:39,100 --> 00:29:43,300 you could not believe I've interacted with people still 512 00:29:43,300 --> 00:29:45,000 alien that. I kind of wonder if they're even 513 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,000 from the same Planet. I worked on projects that are so 514 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:53,300 far out there that I I mean you have no idea what I've 515 00:29:53,300 --> 00:29:58,900 experienced right. Now, when I had an afternoon 516 00:29:58,900 --> 00:30:01,400 with absolutely nothing to do and I can just sit in the yard 517 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,800 and stare blankly into space that really excites me. 518 00:30:05,900 --> 00:30:09,200 Yeah, that's that's rare. That's rare time. 519 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,800 You know, it's like I'm pushing 70. 520 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,700 I'm almost 70 years old. I still, I never made enough 521 00:30:14,700 --> 00:30:19,500 money to retire. I'm still working and I'll be 522 00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:22,100 working till I drop. You know, that I just got no 523 00:30:22,100 --> 00:30:24,000 choice. I have to make rent, I have to 524 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,300 eat. I have to eat. 525 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,500 That's just the way it is. I Chose a path that was not 526 00:30:28,500 --> 00:30:32,400 going to make me Rich. It's like I didn't go into, I 527 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,800 didn't move to New York and try to get a job at a corporation. 528 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,900 Paying me six seven figures a year you know? 529 00:30:36,900 --> 00:30:39,900 Because right I knew they'd never hire me. 530 00:30:39,900 --> 00:30:43,300 I already learned that lesson have a question for you. 531 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,400 What three Works would you put in your portfolio today? 532 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,700 Let's be honest, I wouldn't put record covers or posters in my 533 00:30:53,700 --> 00:30:56,400 work. I think I would stay, I wouldn't 534 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,200 my own portfolio of my own work that I do you interested in 535 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,800 doing. I would try to promote myself as 536 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:09,800 a logo and typography designer, not a type designer. 537 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,000 But, you know, person who does interesting lettering, not a 538 00:31:13,008 --> 00:31:17,000 calligrapher because I don't do calligraphy, but, you know, the 539 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,300 kind of interesting kind of fucked up. 540 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,200 Typography that I'm really good at because I've been doing it 541 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,400 for 50 years, right? As opposed to people who use 542 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,700 computer fonts. That's a Miss use that word. 543 00:31:31,700 --> 00:31:38,300 By the way, fonts of distressed typography make it look like 544 00:31:38,300 --> 00:31:42,900 punk rock, which is all just patently phony. 545 00:31:44,300 --> 00:31:49,100 I do stuff that looks real, you know, I don't know if I can 546 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,800 White, explain that difference without going off on a diatribe. 547 00:31:52,900 --> 00:31:55,900 Anyway, I would probably have a portfolio be entirely black and 548 00:31:55,900 --> 00:32:03,200 white at this point. You know frankly my color work 549 00:32:03,300 --> 00:32:08,200 although it's sophisticated in its own way, is also very 550 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,400 Primal. I use a lot of primary colors 551 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,600 and then I do screens usually to mix and match and create new 552 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,400 colors. Do that. 553 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,500 I learned from my Robin, with offset printing over the 554 00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:25,200 decades, nowadays, kids sit down, at a computer and you can 555 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,100 push all these buttons and do any color in the rainbow and 556 00:32:28,100 --> 00:32:32,200 then some, you know, and color is on everything. 557 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,000 Nobody even designs black and white logos anywhere, because 558 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,600 they're never used in black and white that you can go full color 559 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,000 on a logo. And it just typical that was 560 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,300 impossible when I was starting out that was just too expensive, 561 00:32:44,300 --> 00:32:48,100 you know? So I mean, basically, whenever 562 00:32:48,100 --> 00:32:50,400 technology takes a giant Giant step forward. 563 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:55,000 I think it died and step back is like it's, you know, when things 564 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,200 start getting, you know, it's like things have gotten so so 565 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:04,700 crazy and sophisticated and frankly looks so Stamped Out and 566 00:33:04,700 --> 00:33:10,200 off the shelf and and simple-minded, I tend to want to 567 00:33:10,500 --> 00:33:13,200 take a step back. It's like every time can 568 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:14,900 printing takes a big step forward. 569 00:33:14,900 --> 00:33:18,100 I'm already back to potatoes stamps. 570 00:33:18,100 --> 00:33:21,500 I'm actually looking at potato stamps as I'm you genre to 571 00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:27,700 explain in graphic design, you know, it's like, I can potato 572 00:33:27,700 --> 00:33:30,000 stabbed with something you can't be done on the computer. 573 00:33:30,700 --> 00:33:33,000 And what else have I got to offer a client. 574 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,600 If you can have a kid out of school, do anything on a 575 00:33:36,608 --> 00:33:39,600 computer and it looks just like graphic design even though it's 576 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,500 really not. What about why would they hire 577 00:33:43,500 --> 00:33:44,700 me? What did you spend all that 578 00:33:44,700 --> 00:33:48,000 money to hire me? Are you crazy Meghan? 579 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,900 You can same amount of money you can hire for kids out of college 580 00:33:50,900 --> 00:33:53,600 working at minimum wage and set him up with some computers. 581 00:33:53,900 --> 00:33:57,700 You can pay for the hardware and the Software for the mountain. 582 00:33:57,700 --> 00:34:01,000 I you'd be spending a freelancer, that's ridiculous. 583 00:34:01,700 --> 00:34:05,100 So what do I have to offer? Well, try and do a potato stamp 584 00:34:05,100 --> 00:34:08,300 on a computer screen. I rest my case. 585 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:14,699 So bob la the art. I have this question for you. 586 00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:17,800 You don't shy away from challenges. 587 00:34:18,100 --> 00:34:21,400 What advice do you have for designers? 588 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,400 Multiple stations of their journey in seeking challenges? 589 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,500 Follow your interests. What do you Joseph Campbell? 590 00:34:29,500 --> 00:34:34,199 Say, follow your Muse. Well, what is your Muse? 591 00:34:34,199 --> 00:34:37,500 What do you interested in if you're not interested in the 592 00:34:37,500 --> 00:34:38,300 work? No client. 593 00:34:38,300 --> 00:34:41,100 Isn't there going to? It comes through, its it, your 594 00:34:41,100 --> 00:34:46,100 writing and if you're writing, if if you're right, really into 595 00:34:46,100 --> 00:34:49,699 fantasy fiction with dragons and Dungeons and crap and you 596 00:34:49,699 --> 00:34:52,500 sitting down trying to write a love story set in. 597 00:34:55,300 --> 00:34:59,100 The 60s hippie era or something, you know, it's like it's not 598 00:34:59,100 --> 00:35:03,400 gonna work, you know, stick to what you love. 599 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,900 Stick to what you do. Be true to yourself. 600 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:11,300 Don't lie to yourself know who you are, and go out and do that. 601 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,400 And that will take you on a path. 602 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,700 She'll never imagine. It's like I mentioned earlier 603 00:35:18,700 --> 00:35:24,800 about when I was over that. Did the decades, the I think 604 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:29,000 designers I've known that were really good and I mean good 605 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:35,200 people who were just they had, they had it down, they knew 606 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,000 everything, they knew all the ins and outs their history. 607 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:39,700 They knew all the techniques. They all that. 608 00:35:41,700 --> 00:35:44,600 I would say, most of those people were trained in other 609 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,300 fields entirely and drifted into graphic design by accident. 610 00:35:48,300 --> 00:35:52,600 I knew people who were like, you know, obviously I knew a dentist 611 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,800 who became a great typography. /. 612 00:35:55,000 --> 00:36:00,000 I knew a guy who came from a family of sponge divers and had 613 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,700 a degree in biochem and he walked away from it become a 614 00:36:02,700 --> 00:36:04,800 graphic designer because he liked it. 615 00:36:05,500 --> 00:36:09,200 I mean it's like there was a big period in Seattle where because 616 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,800 it was so much competition for freelance work that the better 617 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:18,900 you personally looked the more chance you had of getting the 618 00:36:18,900 --> 00:36:23,300 work because clients are people, you know. 619 00:36:23,500 --> 00:36:26,100 And there were Look at skin this culture. 620 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:31,500 Anyway, fashion models fashion models took over graphic design 621 00:36:31,500 --> 00:36:34,700 for a while in Seattle because they just looked great. 622 00:36:35,500 --> 00:36:38,700 They people who were X fashion models, who was about four or 623 00:36:38,700 --> 00:36:41,300 five of them in Seattle that were graphic designers. 624 00:36:41,300 --> 00:36:42,800 Freelance graphic designers and doing. 625 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,500 Well, they didn't play up the fact that they used to do work 626 00:36:46,500 --> 00:36:50,700 as a fashion model, rather, they that was their asset, and they 627 00:36:50,700 --> 00:36:54,000 use that to wander into that field and became successful 628 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:54,900 graphic. Designers. 629 00:36:55,100 --> 00:36:57,400 I know you guys are professional weightlifters. 630 00:36:57,900 --> 00:36:59,700 What are some of the really weird ones? 631 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:07,500 Anyway yeah my point is is that these people aren't necessarily 632 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,200 trained in graphic design at Yale. 633 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:16,000 I mean, Yale, what do they know? God there, we act there 634 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:17,500 somewhere. What do they know about what's 635 00:37:17,500 --> 00:37:19,500 going on in the west coast of America? 636 00:37:19,500 --> 00:37:23,900 This is where it's at those guys back there, your to European you 637 00:37:23,900 --> 00:37:26,500 to Old World, really. Hell, you been? 638 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,100 It's so let's talk about location and where you are and 639 00:37:30,100 --> 00:37:33,100 community. So I didn't need to come to you. 640 00:37:33,300 --> 00:37:37,400 Yeah. I built my entire career. 641 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:44,000 In a town. Okay? 642 00:37:44,700 --> 00:37:47,200 You know, you think of the United States of America, you 643 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:51,100 know, take the map United States of America and you cut it just 644 00:37:51,100 --> 00:37:56,500 into four big sections. Great section has its big cities 645 00:37:56,500 --> 00:37:59,900 and it's nowhere. There's its rural areas, right? 646 00:38:00,100 --> 00:38:03,200 You get into the Northwest will wander into of the United 647 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,700 States. They used to have this thing in 648 00:38:05,700 --> 00:38:09,800 the beginning of the old McNeil. Where there Neil layer NewsHour 649 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:15,800 on PBS, where they started off the program with a nighttime map 650 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,500 of the United States, a little white dots where all, their 651 00:38:18,900 --> 00:38:21,500 their stations were around the country. 652 00:38:21,700 --> 00:38:24,500 And I used to be struck by it because when you start looking 653 00:38:24,500 --> 00:38:27,700 at it, you know, the West, the east coast is all white. 654 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:29,400 You need to get down to Southern California. 655 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,400 It's all white and then the Chicago area in the midwest up 656 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,400 there, Detroit that gets all white. 657 00:38:34,500 --> 00:38:37,300 You get up to Seattle where I live, right? 658 00:38:37,300 --> 00:38:41,600 Wait up there. In the corner and you go through 659 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,800 Montana Idaho, you know, call her up. 660 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,800 It's just black, it's black. And then there's just one little 661 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:53,500 white dot up in the corner, all by itself and that Seattle, it 662 00:38:53,500 --> 00:38:58,100 was like an island in the middle of and everybody from that 663 00:38:58,100 --> 00:39:00,300 entire quadrant to the United States. 664 00:39:00,300 --> 00:39:03,800 When they move to the big city, they went to the local big city, 665 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,300 which was Seattle. So we have with these weird 666 00:39:06,300 --> 00:39:09,300 factions from all these different It's in cities and 667 00:39:09,300 --> 00:39:13,700 areas that the kind of Beacon clicks within the structure of 668 00:39:13,700 --> 00:39:16,600 it. So I got exposed to an awful lot 669 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:21,800 of people from DC and in New York and California, they last 670 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,700 about two years and they had back, right? 671 00:39:24,700 --> 00:39:27,800 I mean, when you move to Podunk, you know, after being in the big 672 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,200 city, it's a tough adjustment, most people can't do it. 673 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:36,800 Most of them moved back, so I it was a small, there's no 674 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,600 publishing appear. There's no music industry, 675 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,200 there's very little Arts. There's, you know, the banks 676 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,900 were always a major source of income doing Bay peripherals, 677 00:39:47,300 --> 00:39:49,400 right? Small businesses, you know, 678 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,600 dentist plumbers, things like that. 679 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:56,800 Now, that is what the workload was and if I wanted to do really 680 00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,900 cool stuff that means had to do stuff for the Arts and they had 681 00:39:59,900 --> 00:40:02,700 no money at all. I mean, I was doing posters. 682 00:40:03,100 --> 00:40:07,700 I mean I was doing them for free for years and even trying doing 683 00:40:07,700 --> 00:40:09,400 deals. Trainers to get them free 684 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,000 printing you know designing letterhead for The Print Shop. 685 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,600 You go to the free printing so they can have poster. 686 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,800 That was the two colors silkscreen job that buy an 687 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,700 outfit that used to do for sale signs and campaign yard signs. 688 00:40:22,700 --> 00:40:28,200 I mean it's like this is the level of work so I was trying I 689 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:33,400 was having to hustle so hard in every aspect of doing this work 690 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,300 because I loved it. Right. 691 00:40:35,300 --> 00:40:40,300 Um that I ended up with an education that was Far broader 692 00:40:40,300 --> 00:40:45,500 than you get in Academia, right? But I began to realize how 693 00:40:45,500 --> 00:40:53,300 limited the academic. Information base was, it's like, 694 00:40:53,300 --> 00:40:56,000 I remember going AC. I've also done lots of lectures, 695 00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:01,200 all over the world and I went to RISD Mac. 696 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,000 Yeah, they dragged me up to RISD, okay? 697 00:41:04,300 --> 00:41:07,700 To do our workshop and do a lecture. 698 00:41:08,300 --> 00:41:12,100 And so I went up there and I did my lecture and then the next day 699 00:41:12,100 --> 00:41:16,400 was the workshop and the kids I call them kids but they were 700 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,400 pretty old, they were adults. They'd already been through. 701 00:41:20,500 --> 00:41:26,700 They already had a degree in a related field before they could 702 00:41:26,700 --> 00:41:29,300 even enter the design program. I mean, that's, that's how 703 00:41:29,300 --> 00:41:32,900 serious these and these guys are all ready to graduate from these 704 00:41:32,900 --> 00:41:37,400 were the and they were smart. My God, they were crackerjack. 705 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:43,600 They were just amazing. They they were just really this 706 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,500 is the future of graphic design. Here is is risky. 707 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:47,900 You know. This is like one of the most 708 00:41:47,900 --> 00:41:51,700 serious and Important design schools in the country. 709 00:41:51,900 --> 00:41:59,800 Also, one of the most expensive and So I looked at that in the, 710 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,000 the group of, there's about five students, they're all graduate 711 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:08,100 students. I said well you've seen my work 712 00:42:08,100 --> 00:42:11,700 at my lecture last night you must have some questions. 713 00:42:11,700 --> 00:42:15,000 Is there anything in specific? You want me to try and cover 714 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,100 here in this setting, right? And they looked at each other 715 00:42:18,100 --> 00:42:21,300 and one woman stepped forward. Apparently they had met the 716 00:42:21,300 --> 00:42:24,200 night before and organized and selected. 717 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,000 The leader. Can you imagine that? 718 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:28,900 And she stepped forward. And she looked at her and she 719 00:42:28,900 --> 00:42:31,000 goes well actually we did have one question. 720 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,400 We really wanted to have you talk tell us about, can you 721 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,900 explain the difference between offset and Looks green. 722 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,400 Wow, there is no key. At seriously that person 723 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,600 seriously, these kids have been going to school for at least 724 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:50,800 eight years, majoring in becoming fine, graphic 725 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:55,100 designers, they could all draw. They could all do form, whatever 726 00:42:55,100 --> 00:42:58,900 that is, they could, you know, they knew understood typography, 727 00:42:58,900 --> 00:43:01,900 they they just knew all this stuff, but they didn't, they, 728 00:43:01,900 --> 00:43:05,500 but they're trained as painters and have never touched brush to 729 00:43:05,500 --> 00:43:08,000 Canvas. They had no idea what they were 730 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,600 designing for. What process actually produced 731 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,200 when they were designing. That's just read. 732 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:20,200 This is what this is, what academic education is like. 733 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,000 Can we name that? How many when you went to 734 00:43:22,008 --> 00:43:22,800 school? Did you ever go? 735 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:27,000 Look at a printing. Press, you know, I learned 736 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,300 everything. I know on a printing, press, not 737 00:43:29,300 --> 00:43:31,400 from running it, but from standing there and asking 738 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,600 questions that was my classroom, right? 739 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,600 That's what we do and doesn't think it's all done in this 740 00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:42,600 weird abstract, Fine, Art fashion and then make it so is 741 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:46,700 like missing the Old. So anyway. 742 00:43:46,900 --> 00:43:50,800 Yeah, yeah, I forgot what your question was. 743 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,500 I'm really good at just flying with my gibberish especially 744 00:43:53,500 --> 00:43:56,900 with a lot of copy. I want to show you something 745 00:43:56,900 --> 00:43:59,800 right. Last time we talked I told you 746 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,400 about a guy named Josh Higgins who used to be the basis in the 747 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:07,000 punk, rock, band called fluff. Yeah, and how he became Obama's 748 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,300 design director for the 2012 campaign? 749 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,400 Yes, he was the guy who did this is my coffee mug. 750 00:44:14,500 --> 00:44:16,500 Oh wow. And this is the this is the 751 00:44:16,508 --> 00:44:19,800 famous mug that has Obama's birth certificate printed on the 752 00:44:19,808 --> 00:44:23,400 back. That was one of Josh's projects 753 00:44:24,900 --> 00:44:26,300 you should really talk to this guy. 754 00:44:26,300 --> 00:44:32,100 I mean, he's got stories anyway, ask me another question. 755 00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:36,600 I ask another another question. So my favorite color is black. 756 00:44:38,100 --> 00:44:43,500 It's what do I look for in a girl psychosis? 757 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,300 Him to keep you out of trouble because because I know your wife 758 00:44:47,300 --> 00:44:49,400 was your Tech assistant. This morning-- she come in and 759 00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,500 punch me right in the bed look again we don't want that lack 760 00:44:52,500 --> 00:44:54,500 one thing my re is not is a fool. 761 00:44:57,300 --> 00:45:02,000 There you go. So what's the one worst best 762 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,400 piece of advice? You have for our designers today 763 00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:06,800 we're getting ready for the bouquet. 764 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:08,200 That's a question. I get asked a lot. 765 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,500 I do have a standard smartass reply. 766 00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:12,600 Yep get ready. Andrew smartass one. 767 00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,400 Okay then give me a legit. One thing everybody should know 768 00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,400 is carry a gun at all times because you're going to need it 769 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,500 out there. You don't know what you're 770 00:45:20,500 --> 00:45:24,100 walking and do, there's a few of those guys I should have 771 00:45:24,100 --> 00:45:29,700 plugged. It's like, after 50 years of 772 00:45:29,700 --> 00:45:32,600 doing this stuff on a freelance basis, working with everything 773 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,900 from drug dealers to rock, stars to corporate CEOs. 774 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:41,900 Some of the experiences I've had the level of incompetence and 775 00:45:41,900 --> 00:45:45,400 debauchery and Corruption. There's good people. 776 00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:47,600 Yes. But the other side of the coin, 777 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:55,900 endless unbelievable American Business, is really, really 778 00:45:55,900 --> 00:46:02,300 Sleazy, and you are going to learn about it on the inside as 779 00:46:02,300 --> 00:46:05,200 this. So, you know, maybe you don't 780 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,700 need to actually carry. A pistol into your corporate 781 00:46:07,700 --> 00:46:12,200 board meetings, but have one in your brain have carrying carry 782 00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:16,000 one figuratively in your emotional makeup, because, you 783 00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:20,200 know, you don't have any idea what you're looking at. 784 00:46:20,300 --> 00:46:22,200 You don't know what you're in for at all. 785 00:46:24,100 --> 00:46:26,300 It's never dull. I can definitely say that. 786 00:46:26,300 --> 00:46:32,900 I have had experiences that You're going to death threats. 787 00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,500 I'm a graphic designer and I've got the death threats on four. 788 00:46:36,500 --> 00:46:41,800 Occasions death threats. I'm a graphic designer. 789 00:46:43,100 --> 00:46:44,800 You got to be kidding. No! 790 00:46:44,900 --> 00:46:47,800 Hey, things have happened. But then, you know I also work 791 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:53,400 with, you know, pimps and punk rockers and Bink. 792 00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,400 Presidents. You know, real scumbags. 793 00:46:58,500 --> 00:47:03,700 The so tell me what has been your favorite industry to work 794 00:47:03,700 --> 00:47:06,500 with on the positive side? But what's been, what's going 795 00:47:06,500 --> 00:47:08,200 on? The positive side, my favorite 796 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:09,800 industry is American small business. 797 00:47:10,700 --> 00:47:16,600 Little guys who respect what you do, the only credit line they've 798 00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:21,400 got is paying their bills corporations, do everything 799 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,300 possible to not pay their bills, they have entire divisions. 800 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:29,600 Robin, bankers, and lawyers bookkeepers who will do anything 801 00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:31,800 to not. Give you any money back, they'll 802 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:38,300 owe things I've encountered. You know, II found it even drug 803 00:47:38,300 --> 00:47:41,800 dealers, have have a code. I mean, when you're doing in 804 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,000 rock and roll, you're going to end up dealing with a lot of 805 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:48,400 people who back rock bands that are actually drug dealers. 806 00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,500 That's just one of the ugly secrets of the music industry. 807 00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:56,100 I mean, don't forget who were talking about and the deal is 808 00:47:56,100 --> 00:47:58,700 that those guys have to have their codes to, they have to 809 00:47:58,700 --> 00:48:00,900 have an honor System or nobody will work with them. 810 00:48:01,700 --> 00:48:05,200 They will go out of business is like Bob Dylan's famous. 811 00:48:05,300 --> 00:48:08,700 Into the live outside the law. You must be honest. 812 00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,900 There is a certain level of Truth to that, it doesn't mean 813 00:48:12,900 --> 00:48:15,000 when push comes to shove. You're not out the window 814 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,600 immediately. But on a day-to-day kind of keep 815 00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,600 things functioning. Level honesty is much more 816 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,800 common in American small business than it is in the 817 00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,700 larger Fields. I know we in that the New York 818 00:48:27,700 --> 00:48:30,500 scene is always sold corporations as the salvation of 819 00:48:30,500 --> 00:48:34,400 graphic design, and that's the only real work that matters and 820 00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,000 that's what they cover in all their award annuals. 821 00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,700 And that's what they show in their In the scenario thing, but 822 00:48:41,300 --> 00:48:45,600 99.9% of American businesses, small business and that's where 823 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:47,500 all the most beautiful stuff comes up. 824 00:48:47,500 --> 00:48:50,400 Take a look at those. I don't really look at designing 825 00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:52,300 those anymore, but look at them. And look at the stuff that's 826 00:48:52,300 --> 00:48:55,700 really good, you know, how much of that comes out of Coca-Cola. 827 00:48:56,100 --> 00:48:58,900 How much is it comes out of an Ron, you know, that stuff is 828 00:48:58,900 --> 00:49:02,000 coming out of like, Fred the plumber down the street, who 829 00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,300 just wants to attract more business for his little 830 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,000 business. Here is a little shop, you know, 831 00:49:07,900 --> 00:49:10,600 that's, that's the stuff where? You want to be, that's where the 832 00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,900 beauty is. I mean in, yeah, I've worked 833 00:49:13,900 --> 00:49:17,900 with them all and at that's still the best stuff. 834 00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:21,600 They think you're God's, they think, they think graphic 835 00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:24,900 designers, and magicians, computers have kind of made 836 00:49:24,900 --> 00:49:26,600 everybody. A graphic designer to a very 837 00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:28,800 serious degree. So you're going to run into that 838 00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:34,300 problem even with small business people, but the truth is, they 839 00:49:34,300 --> 00:49:38,100 still think we're magicians. And that's kind of where you 840 00:49:38,100 --> 00:49:40,400 need to be in order to sell. Language. 841 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:45,300 Um I think you know that's a great way to end our 842 00:49:45,300 --> 00:49:47,900 conversation today. My friend for everyone to know. 843 00:49:47,900 --> 00:49:52,600 It's designers you are magicians, you are magic and 844 00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:53,700 that's what's in the absolute learn. 845 00:49:53,700 --> 00:49:57,400 Your craft, dammit learn, learn the language of magic. 846 00:49:57,900 --> 00:50:01,900 Sleight of hand is very that. Your domain is very important in 847 00:50:01,900 --> 00:50:03,400 this thing. How do you going to move things 848 00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:07,800 around in front of your client for the proper impact? 849 00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,700 Very important? Well, I Alright, thank you for 850 00:50:10,700 --> 00:50:13,900 not disappointing. And continuing for what I said 851 00:50:13,900 --> 00:50:16,000 this was going to be an Unapologetic. 852 00:50:16,100 --> 00:50:18,900 Uncentered uncensored. Damn right. 853 00:50:18,900 --> 00:50:24,500 Authentic tragic. Hey, I got all the coffee for 854 00:50:24,500 --> 00:50:26,700 this early in the morning with us to hang out. 855 00:50:26,700 --> 00:50:28,800 Yeah, you come and get up at 6:00. 856 00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:31,700 Yeah, I know. But you did it got me here for 857 00:50:31,700 --> 00:50:35,300 us and I appreciate that. Yeah, I hope you do. 858 00:50:39,500 --> 00:50:41,100 Dead. You are the best. 859 00:50:41,100 --> 00:50:44,000 Thank you for continuing to be authentically. 860 00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,400 You authentically me. Yeah. 861 00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:49,200 Wish us a design like this at all. 862 00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:54,600 I'm you know, I don't I hide in closets and if you have me 863 00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,000 coming pull you out and bring you out in public. 864 00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:00,400 Damn it. Well, dare you. 865 00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,100 Thank you for coffee for joining us. 866 00:51:03,100 --> 00:51:06,000 This is an incredible start to our portfolio, Festival. 867 00:51:06,300 --> 00:51:08,900 You thinking about the ways you can challenge yourself in your 868 00:51:08,900 --> 00:51:11,300 work? Work and really the value of 869 00:51:11,300 --> 00:51:15,300 just being you are no yeah, enjoy your work. 870 00:51:16,500 --> 00:51:20,900 Or don't do it period. Don't do it just for the money 871 00:51:20,900 --> 00:51:25,000 or you're a fool, you know? Here we go. 872 00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:30,100 So once again the words of art are challenging inspirational 873 00:51:30,700 --> 00:51:33,100 and important for us to report. Yeah I need that. 874 00:51:33,100 --> 00:51:35,300 I need that smile of a magician back Ray. 875 00:51:37,900 --> 00:51:40,400 Thank you all for joining us for this guy incentive. 876 00:51:43,100 --> 00:51:47,500 Please check Arts workout and the Louvre Smithsonian the 877 00:51:47,500 --> 00:51:50,800 Museum of Modern Art or just online. 878 00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:53,300 Thank you all. Yeah just just do a Google 879 00:51:53,300 --> 00:51:57,300 search on Name. Oh, I also blog on Facebook. 880 00:51:59,500 --> 00:52:02,300 I'm helping those guys make a, what who is the zugerberg? 881 00:52:02,500 --> 00:52:08,100 Yeah, I saw him once. Anyway, that's another story and 882 00:52:08,100 --> 00:52:10,400 will have a size zugerberg once so they're mine.