1 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,680 Hello and welcome to the AIGA Design Podcast. 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,960 My name is Lee Sean Huang. You may have noticed if you're a 3 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:14,000 long time listener to the podcast that we've paused on our 4 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,320 regular release schedule, but we are still working behind the 5 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,480 scenes on all sorts of exciting learning experiences for 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:23,760 designers like you here at a IGA. 7 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,640 But we're still doing some special episodes, so I wanted 8 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:28,600 to. Talk today with our special 9 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,159 guest Ratish Gupta, founder of Useful School. 10 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,520 He's actually a return guest. He spoke with our former 11 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,800 executive Director Benny F Johnson last year in an episode 12 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,520 of the podcast, and we thought we'd bring him in for an update 13 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,280 to learn about what he's learned so far with Useful School, which 14 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,920 is a Pay what you can online design school aimed at POC 15 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:52,960 designers and aspiring designers. 16 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,080 And I think it fits really well with our general summer of 17 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,520 learning here at AIG as well, where we have our own learning 18 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,120 experiences available for designers and what we call 19 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,480 design adjacent areas to really grow as professionals. 20 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,720 But without further ado, welcome Ratish. 21 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:09,480 Thank you so much. I'm glad to be here. 22 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,320 You did talk about the origin story of Useful School in your 23 00:01:13,320 --> 00:01:16,520 previous interview, so folks can go listen to that and we'll post 24 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,320 a link in the show notes. But can you give us a recap, a 25 00:01:19,320 --> 00:01:21,840 little bit of just what Useful school is? 26 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:26,160 Sure we are. Are a virtual school that aims 27 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,880 to help people of color thrive professionally and also 28 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,360 personally. And I'm happy to get into 29 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,040 details around how we're thinking about both of those 30 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,560 things in a bit. But that's really the main goal 31 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,480 here. We started with product design 32 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,640 classes, we started with some branding classes, but we're 33 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,040 quickly starting to spin out a lot of other classes that are 34 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,840 helping folks address some of the key issues that I've heard 35 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,890 and noticed that. POC are experiencing 36 00:01:53,890 --> 00:01:56,090 professionally, but are also experiencing personally. 37 00:01:56,410 --> 00:02:01,570 You set out to solve some specific problems with useful 38 00:02:01,570 --> 00:02:05,410 school, and in some ways it was like a conversation with AIGA. 39 00:02:05,410 --> 00:02:09,289 So you were taking a data set from a previous AIGA design 40 00:02:09,289 --> 00:02:11,610 survey. You were crunching the data 41 00:02:11,610 --> 00:02:15,610 yourself to really look at some of these issues that Poc 42 00:02:15,690 --> 00:02:19,810 designers faced in the industry, and also using your original 43 00:02:19,890 --> 00:02:23,930 econ major in the process. So can you help us understand a 44 00:02:23,930 --> 00:02:26,210 little bit about the kind of core problems that you're 45 00:02:26,210 --> 00:02:29,810 addressing with useful school? Sure, there's a few and they've 46 00:02:29,810 --> 00:02:34,850 changed focus, or rather that we've added focus over time, but 47 00:02:34,850 --> 00:02:39,410 the initial focus was all about helping junior level. 48 00:02:40,180 --> 00:02:44,220 And senior level product designers be happier. 49 00:02:44,620 --> 00:02:51,060 The one metric is helping POC junior product designers enter 50 00:02:51,060 --> 00:02:54,380 the design industry. And for those who are senior 51 00:02:54,380 --> 00:02:58,460 level product designers, helping them move up, so helping them 52 00:02:58,460 --> 00:03:02,900 get new jobs, whether it's at their current company or it's 53 00:03:02,900 --> 00:03:05,220 helping them get new jobs at a new company. 54 00:03:06,090 --> 00:03:08,450 Or starting a freelance practice. 55 00:03:08,490 --> 00:03:11,930 So that's where we started. We started really focused on 56 00:03:12,010 --> 00:03:17,170 product design, specifically at the junior and senior level. 57 00:03:17,850 --> 00:03:22,650 Now what we're looking at is helping branding folks in the 58 00:03:22,650 --> 00:03:25,650 junior and senior levels do something similar. 59 00:03:26,050 --> 00:03:29,770 So helping fill roles at the junior level, but also help fill 60 00:03:29,770 --> 00:03:32,570 roles at the midweight all the way through design director 61 00:03:32,570 --> 00:03:34,690 levels. So that's where we're at right 62 00:03:34,690 --> 00:03:37,120 now. What we've noticed is a decent 63 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,200 number of POC want to be entrepreneurs. 64 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,800 They either are entrepreneurs already or they want to be. 65 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:46,840 So expanding the curriculum to include how to start and how to 66 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,040 execute on this freelance desire. 67 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,680 And what we're also looking at is some of the more intangible 68 00:03:54,680 --> 00:04:00,160 metrics, the number of folks that are feeling happier, folks 69 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:01,800 that are feeling less impossive syndrome. 70 00:04:02,180 --> 00:04:04,420 Feeling more confident and of course there's ways to track 71 00:04:04,420 --> 00:04:06,580 that, but those are more of the quote UN quote soft skills or 72 00:04:06,580 --> 00:04:08,940 the soft outcomes that we're looking at as well. 73 00:04:09,380 --> 00:04:12,540 What we're also thinking about, which I'm really excited about, 74 00:04:12,540 --> 00:04:18,260 is looking at classes that aren't just quote UN quote 75 00:04:18,260 --> 00:04:22,900 purely professional, meaning we focused initially on product 76 00:04:22,900 --> 00:04:25,700 design, we focused initially on on branding. 77 00:04:26,050 --> 00:04:29,010 But now we're starting to, for the first time, starting to 78 00:04:29,010 --> 00:04:31,850 explore classes outside of those realms, still appealing to 79 00:04:31,850 --> 00:04:34,930 designers but addressing a slightly different issue. 80 00:04:34,930 --> 00:04:39,850 So what we've noticed is that our applicants, about a third of 81 00:04:39,850 --> 00:04:42,530 our applicants, have wanted financial Wellness classes. 82 00:04:42,810 --> 00:04:46,850 We've also noticed that the first week that we've have 83 00:04:46,850 --> 00:04:49,290 focused on for the last year and a half or so has been on 84 00:04:49,290 --> 00:04:52,850 decolonization, and individuals are. 85 00:04:53,450 --> 00:04:56,250 In our class are fascinated by the topic and it's obviously 86 00:04:56,250 --> 00:04:57,690 really, really important and meaningful. 87 00:04:57,690 --> 00:05:00,010 So what we've actually started doing is actually creating an 88 00:05:00,010 --> 00:05:03,010 entire curriculum purely around decolonization. 89 00:05:03,450 --> 00:05:08,170 So in the fall, we're going to have not only advanced branding, 90 00:05:08,490 --> 00:05:12,850 not only junior and senior targeted focused classes for 91 00:05:12,850 --> 00:05:15,010 product designers, but we're also going to be having 92 00:05:15,010 --> 00:05:17,210 financial, Wellness and decolonization classes and those 93 00:05:17,210 --> 00:05:21,260 are literally from. Application and graduation 94 00:05:21,380 --> 00:05:23,500 graduate feedback. Well, a lot of things I'd love 95 00:05:23,500 --> 00:05:27,860 to react to and follow up on, but I'll just jump in the middle 96 00:05:27,860 --> 00:05:29,380 of it. First of all, I just think it's 97 00:05:29,420 --> 00:05:34,060 awesome that you are looking at multiple metrics of graduate 98 00:05:34,060 --> 00:05:37,140 success and also keeping in touch with them, polling them 99 00:05:37,140 --> 00:05:40,540 about what are continuing needs that they have in terms of their 100 00:05:40,540 --> 00:05:42,820 own learning. And I think it really is a 101 00:05:42,820 --> 00:05:45,770 great. Model that complements that like 102 00:05:45,770 --> 00:05:49,170 traditional Business School, MB, a kind of thing of like what is 103 00:05:49,170 --> 00:05:51,450 the average salary of the graduates, right? 104 00:05:51,450 --> 00:05:54,690 And obviously that there's things that make sense about 105 00:05:54,690 --> 00:05:58,490 that when people are taking on lots of student debt to do these 106 00:05:58,690 --> 00:06:01,410 expensive masters programs. Something that useful school 107 00:06:01,410 --> 00:06:03,370 graduates aren't necessarily dealing with. 108 00:06:03,370 --> 00:06:06,610 But maybe they do have student loans from previous experiences 109 00:06:06,610 --> 00:06:08,570 that they've done. But looking at that. 110 00:06:08,950 --> 00:06:11,590 Happiness and general Wellness thing, I think it's just really 111 00:06:11,590 --> 00:06:15,230 important in terms of shifting the norms in our industry. 112 00:06:15,510 --> 00:06:18,470 And then in terms of the financial Wellness and the 113 00:06:18,470 --> 00:06:21,270 decolonization, I think that's great too. 114 00:06:21,270 --> 00:06:26,030 It sort of connects with what we call design adjacent here at a 115 00:06:26,030 --> 00:06:28,710 IGA, not just the name, the previous name of our podcast, 116 00:06:28,710 --> 00:06:32,350 but also our general strategy to learning where we don't 117 00:06:32,350 --> 00:06:34,350 necessarily teach specific software. 118 00:06:34,810 --> 00:06:37,250 Like design software, whether it's from Adobe or Figma, 119 00:06:37,370 --> 00:06:40,330 because there's other places to learn that, but we really focus 120 00:06:40,330 --> 00:06:44,050 on those skills that you need to be thriving as a professional 121 00:06:44,050 --> 00:06:47,570 and as a person. So I guess my follow up is on 122 00:06:47,570 --> 00:06:49,930 the decolonization point. Can you tell me a little bit 123 00:06:49,930 --> 00:06:52,290 more by what you mean by that for folks who may not be 124 00:06:52,290 --> 00:06:54,010 familiar with that concept? Sure. 125 00:06:54,130 --> 00:06:58,270 So decolonization. In broad strokes is around 126 00:06:58,270 --> 00:07:01,790 literally decolonizing our learning and our practices. 127 00:07:01,790 --> 00:07:06,350 So thinking about how much white supremacy and other colonizers 128 00:07:06,350 --> 00:07:10,190 have affected our thought processes, how we operate, how 129 00:07:10,190 --> 00:07:13,070 we think, what we do, what we say, all those types of things 130 00:07:13,350 --> 00:07:16,070 is a really important thing to like, be aware of and also like 131 00:07:16,070 --> 00:07:19,350 unlearn. So what we're thinking about is 132 00:07:19,430 --> 00:07:23,350 how might we take this decolonization concept? 133 00:07:23,860 --> 00:07:28,580 And it applied to students at useful school who are really 134 00:07:28,620 --> 00:07:32,020 interested in it and they want to have a specific outcome and a 135 00:07:32,020 --> 00:07:35,500 specific output from it. So what we're having students do 136 00:07:35,620 --> 00:07:39,380 starting in the fall is they're gonna be going through a 12 week 137 00:07:39,380 --> 00:07:42,180 curriculum with some absolutely incredible special guests. 138 00:07:42,700 --> 00:07:45,620 And by the way, before I continue going, our curriculum 139 00:07:45,620 --> 00:07:49,540 was Co created by Annika Hansi Nazora who's incredible and 140 00:07:49,540 --> 00:07:52,220 helped create the curriculum help invite the speakers and 141 00:07:52,220 --> 00:07:53,380 everything. So shout out. 142 00:07:53,770 --> 00:07:57,810 To Annika. And what we've done is we've 143 00:07:57,810 --> 00:08:02,770 realized that after 12 weeks, we want the students and graduates 144 00:08:02,770 --> 00:08:04,970 to have something to show for it that they're really excited 145 00:08:04,970 --> 00:08:06,850 about. So what we're going to have them 146 00:08:06,850 --> 00:08:11,250 do is actually build a project and ideally launch it by the end 147 00:08:11,250 --> 00:08:15,170 of 12 weeks, which is like kind of a scary idea for many folks. 148 00:08:15,170 --> 00:08:17,730 But a lot of designers and and creators in general are are 149 00:08:17,730 --> 00:08:19,810 really excited about it, I think. 150 00:08:20,380 --> 00:08:25,180 What's important is blending the theory and the actual practice. 151 00:08:25,180 --> 00:08:28,060 And I think that's where a lot of programs unfortunately are 152 00:08:28,060 --> 00:08:33,179 missing that link. So what we're challenging our 153 00:08:33,620 --> 00:08:37,010 audience. And our communities to do is to 154 00:08:37,010 --> 00:08:40,090 think about deconization specifically with regards to 155 00:08:40,090 --> 00:08:43,929 their own practice. So this is also, I should say, a 156 00:08:43,929 --> 00:08:47,130 class that's appealing not only to designers but creators in 157 00:08:47,130 --> 00:08:49,370 general. So we're we've had applicants 158 00:08:49,370 --> 00:08:52,770 who are like TikTok creators, we've had applicants who are 159 00:08:53,090 --> 00:08:56,610 writers, we've had applicants who are adjacent to the design 160 00:08:56,610 --> 00:08:59,090 world, and we're welcoming all those types of individuals. 161 00:08:59,090 --> 00:09:00,210 So I'm really excited about that. 162 00:09:01,420 --> 00:09:03,420 And they're gonna literally be creating something by the end of 163 00:09:03,420 --> 00:09:07,140 12 weeks that's decolonized. So we don't care if it's a Zine, 164 00:09:07,660 --> 00:09:13,140 if it's a website, an app, or something different, as long as 165 00:09:13,140 --> 00:09:16,820 it has the decolonization lens throughout the entire part of 166 00:09:16,820 --> 00:09:18,860 it. And I think it's really a really 167 00:09:18,860 --> 00:09:22,740 clear thing to look at. This project is OK, what kind of 168 00:09:22,740 --> 00:09:25,220 fonts am I using? Are am I using fonts that are by 169 00:09:25,220 --> 00:09:29,300 people of color? What platforms am I using? 170 00:09:29,340 --> 00:09:32,420 Like, am I using a platform that's decolonized? 171 00:09:32,420 --> 00:09:34,620 Like, can I create my own? Like, there's all these types of 172 00:09:34,620 --> 00:09:37,340 questions that happen in terms of our tools and the tooling and 173 00:09:37,340 --> 00:09:39,740 everything that we're doing. And it's also in terms of like 174 00:09:40,020 --> 00:09:44,460 the community that the designers are looking to to pull in and 175 00:09:44,460 --> 00:09:47,180 draw in from their project and and all of these types of 176 00:09:47,500 --> 00:09:51,620 questions I've only just touched the tip of the iceberg here is 177 00:09:51,860 --> 00:09:54,660 really important to thinking about how. 178 00:09:55,260 --> 00:09:57,660 Deconization actually affects your your practice. 179 00:09:57,660 --> 00:09:59,820 So I'm really excited about this class. 180 00:10:00,180 --> 00:10:04,100 It's generally the first of its kind because it's not only pay 181 00:10:04,100 --> 00:10:08,220 what you can, but it's taking deconization out of the the 182 00:10:08,220 --> 00:10:10,900 expensive classrooms and into hands of students that that 183 00:10:10,900 --> 00:10:12,940 really need it and actually encourage them to actually 184 00:10:12,940 --> 00:10:15,540 create and launch the project. So the speakers that we're 185 00:10:15,540 --> 00:10:19,780 bringing in not only talk about deconization from a broader 186 00:10:19,780 --> 00:10:23,700 strokes view, but also at each juncture we have a different 187 00:10:23,700 --> 00:10:26,270 person come in every class. We're teaching them specific 188 00:10:26,270 --> 00:10:29,830 skills, everything from Ramon the Hida from RIZD, he's gonna 189 00:10:29,830 --> 00:10:31,950 be talking about like Bipoc archives. 190 00:10:32,030 --> 00:10:34,070 We're gonna have individuals who are talking about like how to 191 00:10:34,070 --> 00:10:37,430 launch and market your platform to like an audience that like 192 00:10:37,430 --> 00:10:39,430 you're part of, you know, all those types of things. 193 00:10:39,430 --> 00:10:41,910 So I'm really excited about what's gonna be happening with 194 00:10:41,950 --> 00:10:44,750 with the decolonization class and similar to what we did in in 195 00:10:44,750 --> 00:10:47,620 previous classes is. Getting feedback from students, 196 00:10:47,620 --> 00:10:50,700 sponsors, speakers, like literally every step of the way 197 00:10:50,700 --> 00:10:53,900 to make sure we're tweaking the curriculum and making sure it's 198 00:10:53,900 --> 00:10:55,900 refined, refined, refined, refined. 199 00:10:56,180 --> 00:10:58,580 So that way we can just keep the amazing outcomes that we've had. 200 00:10:58,980 --> 00:11:02,220 There's a lot I can say about that, but First off, I love how. 201 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,600 You've reframed usefulness as also addressing some of these 202 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,440 larger social, cultural, economic issues related to, say, 203 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,800 colonialism and and decolonization. 204 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:18,800 And that usefulness isn't just like a narrowly tactical or 205 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,240 vocational kind of training of look, you just learn the 206 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,390 software, and that's. What design is right? 207 00:11:23,390 --> 00:11:26,150 Because we all know that it's also about the human aspects of 208 00:11:26,150 --> 00:11:29,790 it and dealing with the systems that we live in, whether it's 209 00:11:29,790 --> 00:11:32,950 big systems like capitalism or smaller systems, just like the 210 00:11:33,430 --> 00:11:36,670 interpersonal politics of whatever organization or design 211 00:11:36,670 --> 00:11:41,230 team that you're in. So in terms of these sort of 212 00:11:41,230 --> 00:11:45,190 concrete projects, is this the first time you've run this 213 00:11:45,190 --> 00:11:47,710 decolonization class, or have you done this before? 214 00:11:47,710 --> 00:11:49,950 And can you tell us more about some of these projects? 215 00:11:50,310 --> 00:11:53,940 Yeah, this is our first. Time running this curriculum, 216 00:11:54,420 --> 00:11:57,500 specifically with regards to what I'm talking about of a full 217 00:11:57,500 --> 00:12:03,060 12 week class. We've had every student up until 218 00:12:03,060 --> 00:12:05,180 this point. We've had nearly 100 students 219 00:12:05,180 --> 00:12:06,740 over the course of about a year and a half. 220 00:12:07,430 --> 00:12:09,870 We've had every student be exposed in some sort of way. 221 00:12:09,870 --> 00:12:14,430 Deconization, typically, it's within the first week and given 222 00:12:14,430 --> 00:12:17,270 the feedback that we've gotten from our guests. 223 00:12:17,270 --> 00:12:21,470 We've got Aziz Ali, who helped Cocreate and runs this. 224 00:12:21,510 --> 00:12:24,470 It used to be called Design to Divest and now it's called Oroco 225 00:12:24,470 --> 00:12:27,790 Cooperative. And he, Shaquille, Greeley and 226 00:12:27,790 --> 00:12:31,550 many others are doing incredible work with regards to these types 227 00:12:31,550 --> 00:12:35,110 of concepts. And every time Aziz, Shaquille 228 00:12:35,110 --> 00:12:38,390 or some of the other folks in this community come and speak or 229 00:12:38,390 --> 00:12:41,910 on these topics, everyone's like, this is amazing. 230 00:12:41,950 --> 00:12:43,790 This has blown my mind. I love it. 231 00:12:43,790 --> 00:12:46,590 Like how might I bring this in my own practice? 232 00:12:46,870 --> 00:12:49,150 How can we like do this more? Like I want to talk about this 233 00:12:49,150 --> 00:12:51,630 more, more and more. So we're we're literally just 234 00:12:52,230 --> 00:12:54,270 taking the feedback that we've gotten from students and and 235 00:12:54,270 --> 00:12:55,510 expanding from there, which I think. 236 00:12:55,970 --> 00:12:59,250 In my opinion is probably one of the better ways to approach the 237 00:12:59,250 --> 00:13:03,130 release of our our classes is taking the feedback from from 238 00:13:03,130 --> 00:13:05,170 students and and speakers specifically. 239 00:13:06,010 --> 00:13:10,810 I think I am particularly excited by the fact that many of 240 00:13:10,810 --> 00:13:13,930 our past students have applied to these upcoming classes. 241 00:13:14,370 --> 00:13:17,410 We've had a good number of advanced and beginner 242 00:13:17,410 --> 00:13:20,530 individuals from various classes raise their hands and say like, 243 00:13:20,530 --> 00:13:23,370 yeah, I want to do this like I'm working on my own app. 244 00:13:24,020 --> 00:13:27,380 And I'm working on my own like TikTok profile or whatever. 245 00:13:27,380 --> 00:13:30,380 And I want to like really be held accountable to, you know, 246 00:13:30,380 --> 00:13:32,220 to creating it more, more with y'all. 247 00:13:32,220 --> 00:13:36,180 And I think what would be a fantastic outcome is we have 248 00:13:36,380 --> 00:13:38,820 these projects out in the world in some way. 249 00:13:39,180 --> 00:13:42,140 Of course everyone will have a case study of sorts, which is 250 00:13:42,140 --> 00:13:44,700 incredible and that's like one of the best ways to get hired in 251 00:13:44,700 --> 00:13:47,860 in this day and age. But I think also having folks 252 00:13:47,860 --> 00:13:52,030 actually potentially start. A company or some sort of like 253 00:13:52,030 --> 00:13:54,390 Instagram profile that's actually running up after the 254 00:13:54,390 --> 00:13:57,030 class is gonna be something that I'm really excited by too. 255 00:13:57,430 --> 00:13:59,830 We don't know what the outcomes will be specifically on this 256 00:13:59,830 --> 00:14:01,790 class cuz it's kind of won the first of its kind. 257 00:14:01,790 --> 00:14:04,790 So I will have more to report probably by the end of the year, 258 00:14:04,790 --> 00:14:06,070 early next year. Awesome. 259 00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:09,670 It'd be great to have you as a return guest again. 260 00:14:10,150 --> 00:14:12,950 I'm down. Yeah, Devin, I always have so 261 00:14:12,950 --> 00:14:17,430 much I could talk to you about. In terms of this codesign ethos, 262 00:14:17,550 --> 00:14:20,230 you know, I don't know if you've mentioned this term codesign 263 00:14:20,230 --> 00:14:23,030 yet, but it's definitely one of these buzzwords that we hear a 264 00:14:23,030 --> 00:14:27,430 lot that can be both lip service on one end but also real on the 265 00:14:27,430 --> 00:14:30,870 other end in terms of how do we design with people rather than 266 00:14:30,870 --> 00:14:33,870 just for them. And it seems like you've been 267 00:14:33,990 --> 00:14:37,870 fostering this community at useful school where there is a 268 00:14:37,870 --> 00:14:41,470 kind of accountability and feedback loop with the learners 269 00:14:41,470 --> 00:14:43,750 and the alumni as well who come back and. 270 00:14:44,140 --> 00:14:47,540 Help you develop this curriculum as it moves forward. 271 00:14:47,540 --> 00:14:50,140 How do you think about what that collaboration looks like? 272 00:14:50,180 --> 00:14:51,620 I think you've already name checked one of your 273 00:14:51,620 --> 00:14:54,660 collaborators, like officially on the curricula, but then 274 00:14:54,660 --> 00:14:57,900 there's this kind of larger network both of students and 275 00:14:57,900 --> 00:15:00,060 alumni, as well as some of your your sponsors. 276 00:15:00,060 --> 00:15:02,740 But how do you think about all of these different stakeholders 277 00:15:02,900 --> 00:15:05,940 in codesigning what useful school is? 278 00:15:06,460 --> 00:15:11,900 I think one of the most powerful types of projects that I've seen 279 00:15:11,940 --> 00:15:15,640 out in the world. Have been where you are 280 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,960 essentially creating something that you personally have 281 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:23,200 experienced and felt and like have wished that you had this 282 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,480 out in the world. Like even if it was a week ago 283 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:31,840 or a year ago or whatever. That's kind of the way I created 284 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,600 Useful School where I was like, OK, I'm seeing this data I 285 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,960 presented about it at the Brand new conference. 286 00:15:38,770 --> 00:15:41,170 Forrest, who at the time was a Chief credit officer of Wolf 287 00:15:41,170 --> 00:15:44,290 Allen's, was like, OK, Ratish, you you should do something 288 00:15:44,290 --> 00:15:45,610 around this. This is, this is really 289 00:15:45,610 --> 00:15:47,530 interesting. Come up with some sort of model. 290 00:15:48,250 --> 00:15:49,690 And I was like, OK, let me do it. 291 00:15:49,690 --> 00:15:51,610 Cuz like, I literally experienced that. 292 00:15:51,850 --> 00:15:54,930 I literally experienced the problems that we're trying to 293 00:15:54,930 --> 00:15:56,890 solve through useful school myself. 294 00:15:57,530 --> 00:16:01,130 So I think what's interesting and kind of ironic is this idea. 295 00:16:01,130 --> 00:16:03,650 When you create something that you've personally experienced, 296 00:16:03,970 --> 00:16:08,520 you kind of have this idea. Of codesign in your mind and 297 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:10,280 cocreation and all these types of things. 298 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:15,320 But because you're the the one of the key audience members or 299 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,840 populations that that would would use the thing or or love 300 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,720 the thing or whatever, whatever term you might want to use, you 301 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,560 just kind of do it. And you don't really have like 302 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,120 this like OK, I need to reach out to 50 stakeholders. 303 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,920 I need to make sure like this is working for this person, this 304 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,500 person, this person. And I'm at least I'm talking 305 00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:36,620 about it from like a very early stage point of view. 306 00:16:36,620 --> 00:16:38,580 You're just like you're just doing the thing right. 307 00:16:38,900 --> 00:16:43,740 I think as the projects go on, there are really important 308 00:16:43,820 --> 00:16:48,940 checkpoints that you have to think about when you're actually 309 00:16:48,940 --> 00:16:52,020 creating, creating something and you're gonna be impacting other 310 00:16:52,020 --> 00:16:54,540 people as well. So let me explain when you're 311 00:16:54,540 --> 00:16:59,780 thinking about this idea of dignity and making sure that. 312 00:17:00,430 --> 00:17:05,670 The population that your product or service is working for or 313 00:17:05,670 --> 00:17:09,069 serving, you need to make sure that the product is really 314 00:17:09,069 --> 00:17:12,390 culturally responsive. And there's a really important 315 00:17:12,390 --> 00:17:17,310 role that dignity plays and making sure that the product is, 316 00:17:17,670 --> 00:17:20,349 for lack of a better term, dignified and makes the 317 00:17:20,349 --> 00:17:21,829 population that you're working with dignified. 318 00:17:21,829 --> 00:17:24,430 So there's a certain juncture, like when you're actually 319 00:17:24,430 --> 00:17:27,829 creating a prototype and you're getting feedback. 320 00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:32,240 That you're not only thinking about yourself and how how you 321 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:37,120 might feel feel that, but also how might others feel, feel 322 00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:38,720 dignified. And one of the best ways to do 323 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,640 that obviously is gaining initial feedback from from some 324 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,480 of your peers. But I do have mixed feelings 325 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,600 about this term generally about Co creating Co design because 326 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,840 like I said some of the best products have been ones where 327 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,280 like you're kind of creating something for yourself that you 328 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,200 want to see on the world and you just hope that other people see 329 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,760 it too. The other note I'll make is. 330 00:17:58,390 --> 00:18:03,550 That it's also pretty likely that something that you've 331 00:18:03,550 --> 00:18:06,990 thought of or created has been thought about or created in the 332 00:18:06,990 --> 00:18:10,710 past in some shape or form. So making sure you're like 333 00:18:10,710 --> 00:18:14,030 constantly checking your archives and making sure that 334 00:18:14,030 --> 00:18:18,110 you're nodding to to the past history of the of the product 335 00:18:18,110 --> 00:18:20,190 that you're working with is is also incredibly important. 336 00:18:20,190 --> 00:18:22,630 It'll ensure that you don't repeat the same mistakes. 337 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:27,360 It's oftentimes really helpful to kind of stand on the kind of 338 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,040 the shoulders of the giants that have come before us. 339 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,720 And honestly it's just it's just the best and most moral thing to 340 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,000 do it there. There has been plenty of 341 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,200 projects out in the world that have been problematic because 342 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,680 they act like they're the kind of the the only one that exists 343 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,560 and they're the first ones that have thought about this thing in 344 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,960 the past. So I think those are my initial 345 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,800 thoughts on like Co creation, Co design and and all of that. 346 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,800 That's like a topic probably we could talk about for like hours 347 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,000 and hours, but those are my my initial thoughts. 348 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,120 For sure. Yeah, we could do like an entire 349 00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:03,000 podcast series on codesign and all of that stuff. 350 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,080 But I just wanted to underline some of those things that you 351 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,600 said about like actually doing some sort of market research, 352 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:11,000 right. What's already been out there, 353 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,520 maybe it's a historical view as well, which I think is another 354 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:20,210 critique of some of these more. Vocationally focused or narrowly 355 00:19:20,370 --> 00:19:23,330 tactical design education programs that don't really have 356 00:19:23,330 --> 00:19:25,770 a sense of history. You know, it's that like design 357 00:19:25,770 --> 00:19:28,290 existed before figma. And this is not to pick on 358 00:19:28,290 --> 00:19:29,730 Figma. But there's often like, you 359 00:19:29,730 --> 00:19:32,890 know, there is like the hot tool of the moment and then people 360 00:19:32,890 --> 00:19:35,890 kind of gravitate towards it or they give too much weight to it 361 00:19:36,130 --> 00:19:38,810 but push out other things that they should also be learning as 362 00:19:38,810 --> 00:19:40,690 designers. I completely agree and I think 363 00:19:40,690 --> 00:19:44,930 that's one of the reasons why we've heard from from various 364 00:19:44,930 --> 00:19:49,050 people in our community about. Thinking about their own design 365 00:19:49,050 --> 00:19:53,690 point of views and also thinking about like their own cultural 366 00:19:53,690 --> 00:19:56,210 identity and their own personal identity at large and like how 367 00:19:56,250 --> 00:19:59,850 that affects their work. We've heard from a variety of 368 00:19:59,850 --> 00:20:02,410 designers, particularly ones that are actually in our cohort 369 00:20:02,410 --> 00:20:07,170 right now, who are like, OK, this is my intersectionality and 370 00:20:07,170 --> 00:20:10,330 this is like my lived experience and I want to help other people 371 00:20:10,330 --> 00:20:13,290 as a freelancer who share similar lived experience. 372 00:20:13,290 --> 00:20:16,110 So for example. There are numerous individuals 373 00:20:16,110 --> 00:20:19,870 who are in our curriculum right now who are like, I share the 374 00:20:19,870 --> 00:20:22,230 similar background with an entrepreneur and I want to only 375 00:20:22,230 --> 00:20:25,030 serve those entrepreneurs. So for example, we've got like a 376 00:20:25,030 --> 00:20:28,790 number of of individuals like right now who are like, I am a 377 00:20:28,790 --> 00:20:32,190 black woman and I'm a designer and I'm gonna design only for 378 00:20:32,190 --> 00:20:35,190 black women entrepreneurs And like thinking about that and 379 00:20:35,190 --> 00:20:38,950 encouraging that to happen is a really, really important thing 380 00:20:38,950 --> 00:20:42,670 cuz often times we think about we have to like, fit into this 381 00:20:42,670 --> 00:20:44,560 like. This idea of cultural fit and 382 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,560 fit into like this mold of like what is happening in terms of 383 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,840 like the current design trends right now and we refuse 384 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:56,320 oftentimes to acknowledge like our own identities and those 385 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:58,320 identities oftentimes take a back seat. 386 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:03,520 And everything from our work to our biographies and our About Me 387 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,840 is about ourself like the fonts that we use, all of that. 388 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,720 So literally the first week of nearly every class. 389 00:21:09,220 --> 00:21:10,900 We have a class on of course, deconization. 390 00:21:10,900 --> 00:21:13,460 But specifically around like, how do you use deconization to 391 00:21:13,460 --> 00:21:15,020 develop your own design point of view? 392 00:21:15,380 --> 00:21:17,900 And like one of the bits of homework is like creating a 393 00:21:17,900 --> 00:21:20,220 visual mood board that represents your personal and 394 00:21:20,220 --> 00:21:22,860 cultural identity. And that kind of forces everyone 395 00:21:22,860 --> 00:21:25,980 to think about where they've been, who they are right now, 396 00:21:25,980 --> 00:21:28,340 where they want to be. And particularly nodding to like 397 00:21:28,340 --> 00:21:30,860 the Bipoc archives there I was talking about earlier that I'm 398 00:21:30,860 --> 00:21:33,660 really excited about like Ramon coming in and speaking on. 399 00:21:34,190 --> 00:21:36,830 Yeah, I feel like that is definitely part of 400 00:21:36,830 --> 00:21:40,750 decolonization too, is like recognizing that you don't just 401 00:21:40,750 --> 00:21:44,550 have to design for a, like a quote UN quote mainstream mass 402 00:21:44,550 --> 00:21:48,470 audience, which is often really just kind of a another way of 403 00:21:48,470 --> 00:21:50,830 saying or a way of kind of hiding the fact that this is 404 00:21:50,830 --> 00:21:53,790 actually about like dominant groups, whether it's kind of 405 00:21:54,150 --> 00:21:57,590 dominant ethnic groups or kind of socioeconomic classes, right, 406 00:21:57,590 --> 00:21:59,750 that are dictating taste and that. 407 00:22:00,050 --> 00:22:02,370 Design is catering to them and to really say like okay, well 408 00:22:02,370 --> 00:22:06,330 you can also be super targeted in who you're designing for and 409 00:22:06,330 --> 00:22:08,850 with as a designer because those are necessary too. 410 00:22:08,850 --> 00:22:11,770 Not everything has to be like big tech kind of design that's 411 00:22:11,770 --> 00:22:15,170 meant for like the masses or quote UN quote everyone, even if 412 00:22:15,170 --> 00:22:16,830 it still excludes people. Right. 413 00:22:17,030 --> 00:22:20,430 So you mentioned a couple of students in passing. 414 00:22:20,630 --> 00:22:23,510 I'd love to hear about maybe a couple more. 415 00:22:23,510 --> 00:22:26,430 In terms of like where are they now since they've been with you 416 00:22:26,430 --> 00:22:30,270 for over a year now in terms of where alumni of useful school or 417 00:22:30,270 --> 00:22:32,710 current students, how they've developed as designers just in 418 00:22:32,710 --> 00:22:35,310 the time you've spent together? Yeah, totally. 419 00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:37,950 I love this. Whenever I talk about useful 420 00:22:37,950 --> 00:22:40,430 school, I I get so stoked about it. 421 00:22:40,710 --> 00:22:44,590 Particularly seeing a. The people in our community and 422 00:22:44,590 --> 00:22:45,910 the graduates and what they've done. 423 00:22:45,910 --> 00:22:48,470 So I'm really, I'm really, really excited about this, about 424 00:22:48,470 --> 00:22:51,430 this question that you had. One thing I'll mention is that a 425 00:22:51,430 --> 00:22:54,830 lot of our applicants, in fact most of our applicants come from 426 00:22:54,830 --> 00:22:57,710 all different types of intersectionalities and all 427 00:22:57,710 --> 00:23:02,350 different types of disciplines. So right now we are serving 18 428 00:23:02,350 --> 00:23:05,790 year olds, old and up in the US only we have everyone from 429 00:23:05,790 --> 00:23:08,870 product designers, product managers, we even have a 430 00:23:08,870 --> 00:23:11,630 footwear designer. We have a amazing mascot 431 00:23:11,630 --> 00:23:15,190 designer in our on our programs we've got many illustrators, 3D 432 00:23:15,190 --> 00:23:18,750 effects people, animators, creative directors, you kind of 433 00:23:18,750 --> 00:23:19,990 name it. They kind of span. 434 00:23:19,990 --> 00:23:22,910 And we and we don't really look at the quote UN quote 435 00:23:22,990 --> 00:23:26,670 traditional like branding people or traditional like product 436 00:23:26,670 --> 00:23:29,750 design people or any of our curriculum necessarily like we 437 00:23:29,750 --> 00:23:33,830 will accept if you're showing even an ounce of creativity and 438 00:23:33,870 --> 00:23:36,630 everything in your application feels, feels right will be 439 00:23:36,630 --> 00:23:38,760 useful to you. We'll try to make a spot for 440 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:40,040 you. So that's something that I'm 441 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,480 really excited about. I think the folks have 442 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,320 particularly in terms of the outcomes have been number one, 443 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,240 more confidence and less impossible syndrome based on 444 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,800 analysis of outcomes and and what students have done. 445 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,680 And also like talking through with people anecdotally, I've 446 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:03,400 noticed that without a strong focus on deconization, 447 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,550 confidence building. Focusing on like how you can 448 00:24:07,550 --> 00:24:11,390 reduce this feeling of impossive syndrome, you need all that 449 00:24:11,390 --> 00:24:13,590 stuff and then everything else is kind of like dominoes. 450 00:24:13,990 --> 00:24:18,550 So we focus mostly first on the impossive syndrome, the 451 00:24:18,550 --> 00:24:21,550 confidence building, feeling comfortable with your own 452 00:24:21,550 --> 00:24:24,430 intersectionality and those types of things before starting 453 00:24:24,430 --> 00:24:26,790 to talk about portfolio crits and all of that kind of stuff. 454 00:24:27,070 --> 00:24:29,870 There's no point in doing a portfolio crit before those 455 00:24:29,870 --> 00:24:31,430 initial things have been talked about, so. 456 00:24:31,780 --> 00:24:35,380 What we've heard from most, the vast majority if not all folks 457 00:24:35,380 --> 00:24:37,820 that they've experienced less impossible and felt more 458 00:24:37,820 --> 00:24:39,340 confident. So I'm stoked about that. 459 00:24:39,340 --> 00:24:41,900 That's really, really exciting and that's exactly where I want 460 00:24:41,900 --> 00:24:43,860 to be. The other thing I've also 461 00:24:43,860 --> 00:24:46,260 noticed is that folks have started increasing a 462 00:24:46,260 --> 00:24:48,820 responsibility in their current roles. 463 00:24:48,900 --> 00:24:52,260 So they're either running more meetings themselves, which is a 464 00:24:52,260 --> 00:24:54,340 huge step for a lot of junior designers. 465 00:24:54,340 --> 00:24:59,500 I would say, yeah, folks are being promoted to to more senior 466 00:24:59,500 --> 00:25:02,600 level roles. Some individuals have started 467 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,280 their own freelance contracts and or have only done freelance 468 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,200 some people in their curriculum. For example Kindle is actually 469 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,920 just went freelance full time. So there's been numerous, 470 00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:13,880 numerous occasions what that's happened. 471 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:19,360 I think also we've had two individuals become professors 472 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,800 which is like incredible. At useful school or elsewhere. 473 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:24,200 Elsewhere. Yeah. 474 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,680 Elsewhere we've actually so. I I do the lead teaching quote, 475 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:29,560 UN quote, like for for each of the classes. 476 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,200 I don't. I don't name myself like a 477 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,320 professor. Yeah, you don't have to name 478 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,600 yourself Dean of Useful School, Executive Dean, Provost. 479 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:38,880 Yeah, I don't know. It just feel. 480 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,200 It feels, yeah, Dean and Provost and like, professor and like all 481 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,160 that kind of stuff. Just feels so like, passe. 482 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,920 Like I want to come up with some sort of other other name or 483 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:48,720 whatever. But actually, like, all jokes 484 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,600 aside, like we had somebody who's become a professor at UCLA 485 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:53,920 and another College in California. 486 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,250 That's been awesome. Some individuals have also 487 00:25:56,250 --> 00:25:58,810 started their own agencies and founded their own companies. 488 00:25:59,170 --> 00:26:01,290 People are starting to like, mentor more people now that they 489 00:26:01,290 --> 00:26:03,210 feel more comfortable in their own skin. 490 00:26:03,730 --> 00:26:06,930 So these are the types of outcomes that are exactly the 491 00:26:06,930 --> 00:26:09,530 outcomes that I want to see. Some of these I honestly didn't 492 00:26:09,530 --> 00:26:11,850 expect. I didn't expect people to become 493 00:26:12,410 --> 00:26:15,050 teachers themselves. I didn't, I did not expect folks 494 00:26:15,050 --> 00:26:18,960 to necessarily start their own. Companies like this early on 495 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,520 that was obviously something I always wanted to happen, but 496 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,680 this early on was was awesome. So I think those are like some 497 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,040 of the outcomes that I've experienced. 498 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,360 We've had nearly 100 students go through our programs. 499 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,800 We're currently in our third cohort and our 4th cohort. 500 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,560 It's going to be in the fall, September through November and 501 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,600 happy to talk more about that in a second, but I'm just really 502 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,520 excited about supporting this community. 503 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,320 We have a Slack channel right now. 504 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,560 That's specifically focused on wins and people are posting 505 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,920 around about their wins. And I'm just like super stoked 506 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,440 about what's been happening. Like one individual, Flatbush 507 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,560 Brown, that's his alias is his name is Son Air and he just like 508 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,720 did a like a 360 branding for like this super dope, like pizza 509 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,760 spot in upstate New York. Another person just like 510 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,040 published a paper on augmented reality. 511 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,080 Their name is Zach. It's just like really cool, 512 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,240 interesting things that have happened in addition to like all 513 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:13,280 the other things I've been talking. 514 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,720 About that is awesome. It's great where you kind of 515 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,360 have these like maybe immediately legible success 516 00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:22,120 stories of like, OK, you're like moving up in a corporate 517 00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:24,880 hierarchy or you're starting your own studio kind of thing 518 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,480 that we might readily recognize. And then you also have these 519 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,600 ones that surprise you too in terms of people becoming 520 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,280 professors or or doing things that maybe you didn't anticipate 521 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,600 but that are still like what they view and what your 522 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,480 community views as success, which is I think so important in 523 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,920 terms. Of really embracing diversity, 524 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:42,320 right? And understanding that being 525 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,760 successful as a designer has like many different stories 526 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,040 behind it, and not just kind of 1 in terms of, I don't know, 527 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,480 making partner at some big name firm or whatever that might be. 528 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,480 Yeah, yeah. And there and there are people 529 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,120 who are like, I'm going to do, I'm going to go up to corporate 530 00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:01,960 ladder. I want to like like continue 531 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,800 like getting, you know, decent income and building generational 532 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,440 wealth and like that's incredible. 533 00:28:07,820 --> 00:28:09,460 And at the same time, in parallel, there's also 534 00:28:09,460 --> 00:28:11,820 individuals who are like running their own thing. 535 00:28:12,220 --> 00:28:17,020 They are going through all the learnings around like being a 536 00:28:17,020 --> 00:28:20,660 freelancer or or being some sort of running their own studio or 537 00:28:20,660 --> 00:28:22,540 something. And I love, I love to see all 538 00:28:22,540 --> 00:28:23,700 that. I love to see all that. 539 00:28:23,700 --> 00:28:27,540 You can justify kind of like any role that a lot of the folks 540 00:28:27,540 --> 00:28:29,540 have taken on in so many different ways. 541 00:28:30,010 --> 00:28:35,050 And so I think what I would like to see in the future is folks 542 00:28:35,090 --> 00:28:37,930 continue to hit all of these types of metrics and all these 543 00:28:37,930 --> 00:28:40,730 types of outcomes. I think what would be really 544 00:28:40,730 --> 00:28:45,530 great is at some point I would love to see in X number of 545 00:28:45,530 --> 00:28:47,850 years, I would love to see a decent number of these 546 00:28:47,850 --> 00:28:51,210 individuals as well as future students continue to start 547 00:28:51,210 --> 00:28:53,370 startups. That's number one. 548 00:28:53,890 --> 00:28:57,010 Number two, I would love to also see folks who are currently in 549 00:28:57,010 --> 00:29:02,330 the corporate world continue to be on pace to becoming creative 550 00:29:02,330 --> 00:29:05,770 directors, design directors, those types of levels because 551 00:29:05,770 --> 00:29:09,210 those are the levels where you can manage a lot of important 552 00:29:09,210 --> 00:29:13,450 outcomes and control culture, how people are hired, all those 553 00:29:13,450 --> 00:29:15,890 types of things which are really, really important metrics 554 00:29:15,890 --> 00:29:17,290 to to hit. So we're just, we're just 555 00:29:17,290 --> 00:29:19,410 hitting the tip of the iceberg here and I would, I would really 556 00:29:19,410 --> 00:29:21,850 like to see that happen over the next few years. 557 00:29:21,850 --> 00:29:25,420 It's going to take some time. There's a lot of movement 558 00:29:25,620 --> 00:29:27,140 towards this. We've got a lot of momentum. 559 00:29:27,140 --> 00:29:29,460 But yeah, those are some of the other things I want to see soon. 560 00:29:29,580 --> 00:29:31,860 We've already started to see it with with some different 561 00:29:31,860 --> 00:29:33,740 individuals. We have somebody named Victor 562 00:29:34,100 --> 00:29:37,220 who's like running a team and that's incredible and has like a 563 00:29:37,220 --> 00:29:41,380 lot of, has a lot of like agency working for his consulting firm 564 00:29:41,380 --> 00:29:43,260 and that's that's incredible. And I just want to continue 565 00:29:43,260 --> 00:29:45,940 seeing folks like Victor continue to thrive after 566 00:29:45,940 --> 00:29:47,740 graduating from useful school. Wonderful. 567 00:29:47,740 --> 00:29:51,500 That's the kind of longterm cultural and systems change. 568 00:29:51,930 --> 00:29:53,210 That we want to see in the world. 569 00:29:53,210 --> 00:29:57,410 So Speaking of like the next generation or even just the next 570 00:29:57,410 --> 00:30:00,050 cohort, I guess those are the two things I want to talk about 571 00:30:00,050 --> 00:30:02,650 next, the next cohort. Can you tell our listeners a 572 00:30:02,650 --> 00:30:05,290 little bit about that if they want to get involved and still 573 00:30:05,290 --> 00:30:08,050 apply to the program? And then you'd also mentioned 574 00:30:08,050 --> 00:30:11,130 before we started rolling wanting to work with younger 575 00:30:11,130 --> 00:30:13,530 aspiring designers as well, high school aged people. 576 00:30:13,530 --> 00:30:15,290 So can you tell us a little bit about both of those? 577 00:30:15,490 --> 00:30:18,410 Yeah, totally. So we have five more classes 578 00:30:18,410 --> 00:30:21,870 coming up in the fall. The application deadline is 579 00:30:21,870 --> 00:30:24,790 August 18th. The classes will start early 580 00:30:24,790 --> 00:30:27,270 September and they will go through the better part of 581 00:30:27,270 --> 00:30:31,470 November. And we have five classes 582 00:30:31,470 --> 00:30:36,270 specifically on beginner product design, advanced product design, 583 00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:40,870 advanced branding, deconization and financial Wellness. 584 00:30:41,380 --> 00:30:45,980 We are going to be doing classes once a week, basically. 585 00:30:45,980 --> 00:30:48,020 So if you're part of any of these five classes, you're going 586 00:30:48,020 --> 00:30:50,340 to be meeting weekly in the evenings on Zoom. 587 00:30:50,380 --> 00:30:53,420 It's completely remote. As long as you're living within 588 00:30:53,420 --> 00:30:55,500 the United States, you're all good to go. 589 00:30:55,500 --> 00:30:58,740 And as well as you're also 18 years old and up, there's going 590 00:30:58,740 --> 00:31:02,340 to be a different secret guest every single week. 591 00:31:03,420 --> 00:31:08,060 And the way their classes are structured is we have the first 592 00:31:08,060 --> 00:31:11,230 hour. Of each class is going to be 593 00:31:11,230 --> 00:31:14,390 some sort of get secret guest dropping knowledge in some sort 594 00:31:14,390 --> 00:31:17,550 of way, maybe doing a workshop with them, what have you. 595 00:31:17,950 --> 00:31:19,990 And then the second hour is usually with somebody like 596 00:31:19,990 --> 00:31:25,430 myself who might do crits, lead mini lessons, do another 597 00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:29,190 presentation, time for crit, all those types of things now 598 00:31:29,190 --> 00:31:32,190 something that's really interesting about our curriculum 599 00:31:32,190 --> 00:31:35,510 that people have been particularly fascinated by. 600 00:31:36,110 --> 00:31:40,710 Is on the advanced levels specifically, we actually have 601 00:31:40,710 --> 00:31:45,190 students teach many lessons to each other because the designers 602 00:31:45,190 --> 00:31:48,990 have so much knowledge. They're so, so smart and have a 603 00:31:48,990 --> 00:31:50,590 lot of really interesting, unique experiences. 604 00:31:50,990 --> 00:31:54,790 So we'll have a decent portion of the curriculum where the 605 00:31:54,790 --> 00:31:56,750 designers themselves, the students themselves will 606 00:31:56,750 --> 00:31:59,270 actually prepare like a short, like 5 to 10 minute lesson 607 00:31:59,590 --> 00:32:02,510 that's like really practical and really useful that all the other 608 00:32:02,510 --> 00:32:04,470 designers can learn from. So for example, we have like a 609 00:32:04,470 --> 00:32:07,770 social media. Genius who runs social for a lot 610 00:32:07,770 --> 00:32:10,730 of bigger brands named Georgia who came in and talked about 611 00:32:10,730 --> 00:32:13,490 like how you can do social media for your own like portfolio and 612 00:32:13,490 --> 00:32:16,330 how you can help grow your own social platform given your own 613 00:32:16,330 --> 00:32:18,050 like experience and intersectionalities. 614 00:32:18,410 --> 00:32:21,930 Another person has taught a class on how to run an inclusive 615 00:32:21,930 --> 00:32:24,850 design critique, which honestly is a really, really difficult 616 00:32:24,850 --> 00:32:27,410 thing to do. Running an entirely or mostly 617 00:32:27,410 --> 00:32:29,130 inclusive design critique is very challenging. 618 00:32:29,130 --> 00:32:31,730 So was really excited to hear from Jasmine on that one. 619 00:32:32,220 --> 00:32:34,180 So there's like these little things that we're doing that are 620 00:32:34,180 --> 00:32:37,380 making huge impacts for these outcomes where we're not only 621 00:32:37,540 --> 00:32:40,580 having guests come in, teach some knowledge, show me how I 622 00:32:40,580 --> 00:32:43,180 did this so I can do it, two types of things and get me 623 00:32:43,180 --> 00:32:44,900 inspired. But also we're building 624 00:32:44,900 --> 00:32:47,140 community within our classes where everyone is actually 625 00:32:47,140 --> 00:32:49,340 learning from each other and supporting each other. 626 00:32:49,460 --> 00:32:52,060 Both live in the classes and like on our Slack community. 627 00:32:52,500 --> 00:32:54,540 So I think those are the types of things that you can look 628 00:32:54,540 --> 00:32:56,500 forward to. If you're if you're interested 629 00:32:56,500 --> 00:32:58,420 in learning more about the program, you can go to 630 00:32:58,420 --> 00:33:00,900 usefulschool.com. And you can see all the classes 631 00:33:00,900 --> 00:33:03,900 there and you could also apply if you want to get involved like 632 00:33:03,900 --> 00:33:05,820 on a sponsor level or partner up. 633 00:33:05,820 --> 00:33:07,580 Maybe you're part of a company or something and you want to do 634 00:33:07,580 --> 00:33:09,700 some do some work together and make some impact. 635 00:33:09,940 --> 00:33:12,460 Happy to talk about that. There's a lot of different ways 636 00:33:12,460 --> 00:33:14,700 we we work with partners that are really beneficial to 637 00:33:14,700 --> 00:33:17,260 everybody. And yeah, and if you also like, 638 00:33:17,260 --> 00:33:20,180 want to get involved in like another way besides being an 639 00:33:20,180 --> 00:33:24,180 applicant slash being a partner, just let me know, Just e-mail me 640 00:33:24,180 --> 00:33:27,240 for tshirtusefulschool.com. And hopefully we can make 641 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,160 something happen. We have we are always looking 642 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:30,960 for more guest speakers. We're always looking for like 643 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,440 more help or was looking for more ability to spread the word. 644 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,680 Please let me know. Thank you for that call to 645 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,000 action. And just to follow up on the 646 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,280 maybe there's younger people listening to this or folks 647 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,080 listening to this have like high school aged people in their 648 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:45,920 lives. I know this is a kind of coming 649 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,680 soon thing so that there's maybe not an immediate call to action 650 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,240 for those folks, but can you maybe give us a teaser for that? 651 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,620 Sure, so. What I would love to do, in 652 00:33:56,620 --> 00:33:59,540 addition to running Useless School as it currently is, is I 653 00:33:59,540 --> 00:34:03,020 would love to. At some point, probably early 654 00:34:03,020 --> 00:34:07,620 next year or late next year, we'll see, is to start working 655 00:34:07,620 --> 00:34:10,340 with people who are 17 years old and below. 656 00:34:11,100 --> 00:34:14,300 There are a variety of models that I'm thinking about that the 657 00:34:14,300 --> 00:34:20,100 Useless School community has been interested in doing #1 is 658 00:34:20,100 --> 00:34:23,820 doing some sort of after school programs for K through 12. 659 00:34:24,409 --> 00:34:29,290 Students, the second thing is thinking about how might we do 660 00:34:29,290 --> 00:34:32,330 some sort of partnership or something with like another 661 00:34:32,489 --> 00:34:37,570 agency or another studio or another brand to doing like a 662 00:34:37,570 --> 00:34:39,610 little bit more of a longer term curriculum. 663 00:34:39,610 --> 00:34:43,530 That's not just after school. Maybe it's just maybe it's like 664 00:34:43,530 --> 00:34:46,969 an intensive between somebody's junior and senior year or 665 00:34:46,969 --> 00:34:49,770 between senior year and college. You know, whatever might be 666 00:34:50,370 --> 00:34:52,330 particularly to help people understand. 667 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,320 A lot of the curriculum that we're teaching both on the 668 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,000 design avenues but also in the financial Wellness and 669 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,720 everything like that. Like I would love to be able to 670 00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:02,520 to work with younger students as well. 671 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,360 We're just hitting the tip of the iceberg. 672 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,360 Those are my initial ideas and if anybody like, wants to help 673 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,640 out set that up, let me know. There's some schools that I'm 674 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,200 particularly fascinated by. One is called the Marcy Lab 675 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,440 School. The Marcy Lab School, It's Marcy 676 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,000 lab.org. I'm not affiliated with them in 677 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,090 any way. But my partner had shared them 678 00:35:20,090 --> 00:35:23,770 with me and some other folks had have shared this with me and 679 00:35:23,770 --> 00:35:26,730 it's an alternative college basically where like kind of 680 00:35:26,890 --> 00:35:31,450 over the course of about a year you kind of unlock and do all 681 00:35:31,450 --> 00:35:35,610 the things related to a career in in tech specifically coding 682 00:35:35,610 --> 00:35:38,010 and things like that. So I'm I'm, I'm fascinated by 683 00:35:38,010 --> 00:35:41,250 this model and I would love to see schools like you school, 684 00:35:41,250 --> 00:35:45,210 Marcy lab school and others like work more at this level and and 685 00:35:45,210 --> 00:35:47,070 younger. That's wonderful. 686 00:35:47,070 --> 00:35:49,630 And like I think that's how we're going to build these 687 00:35:49,630 --> 00:35:52,910 pipelines, right? Is like focusing on young people 688 00:35:52,910 --> 00:35:55,910 as well as people over 18 or even mid career people which 689 00:35:55,910 --> 00:35:59,510 some of your classes focus on. And just really having this 690 00:35:59,630 --> 00:36:02,270 larger community and just options for people to to learn 691 00:36:02,270 --> 00:36:04,670 in different ways that work for them what their interests are, 692 00:36:04,670 --> 00:36:07,790 what their communities are and what their finances allow for. 693 00:36:07,790 --> 00:36:11,870 So Ratish keep up the amazing work and thank you for giving us 694 00:36:11,870 --> 00:36:13,550 this update. Coming back to visit us, we'd 695 00:36:13,550 --> 00:36:15,870 love to have you again and see where. 696 00:36:16,230 --> 00:36:18,910 Things go with useful school. Yeah, happy to. 697 00:36:19,110 --> 00:36:22,070 Happy to come back. I'm stoked I have to get better 698 00:36:22,070 --> 00:36:24,950 about this, but I try to post on social media like LinkedIn or 699 00:36:24,950 --> 00:36:28,230 Instagram every now and again whenever I have some literally 700 00:36:28,430 --> 00:36:31,230 useful news to share. So yeah, feel free to hit me up 701 00:36:31,230 --> 00:36:34,350 on LinkedIn or follow us usefulschool.com on Instagram 702 00:36:34,390 --> 00:36:35,550 and hopefully you can hear the latest. 703 00:36:35,550 --> 00:36:36,710 News. Awesome. 704 00:36:36,750 --> 00:36:39,350 Thanks again everyone. Have a wonderful summer of 705 00:36:39,350 --> 00:36:41,670 learning this is Leshawn. See you next time.