1 00:00:01,700 --> 00:00:04,500 Welcome to AIG a spiral side chat. 2 00:00:04,500 --> 00:00:07,400 Thank you for joining us. Please connect with us and share 3 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:11,200 your thoughts, the hashtags for this Fireside or aiga design and 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,900 future design. It is my pleasure to welcome, 5 00:00:13,900 --> 00:00:17,300 Benny of Johnson aiga is executive director and today's 6 00:00:17,300 --> 00:00:22,700 guest designer, Randy hunt, any thank you, Amy, and welcome all 7 00:00:22,700 --> 00:00:27,200 to today's episode or addition if you will of our design and 8 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:31,800 Leadership Fireside talks today, we have a special guest and We 9 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,500 jokingly said design never sleeps but it is uniquely aware 10 00:00:36,500 --> 00:00:39,800 of time zone differences. So for the first time we have a 11 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,100 fireside chat. Randy is coming live from 12 00:00:42,100 --> 00:00:46,100 Singapore and I'm broadcasting from DC. 13 00:00:46,100 --> 00:00:48,700 So gives you a sense of our global scale and reach today, 14 00:00:48,900 --> 00:00:53,500 but I'm happy to bring with us Randy hunt who needs no 15 00:00:53,500 --> 00:00:56,000 introduction. But I'm, I love to talk about 16 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:57,900 the fact that he's an award-winning designer. 17 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,800 He's an entrepreneur, fast company has deemed Him one of 18 00:01:01,808 --> 00:01:04,300 the most creative people in business and the companies and 19 00:01:04,300 --> 00:01:08,500 organizations that he's LED, he's an adventurer and he's 20 00:01:08,500 --> 00:01:11,900 really a student thinking about the future of design and work. 21 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:19,000 Randy most recently headed up design for grab and grab is 22 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,300 considered one of the super apps based in Singapore. 23 00:01:22,700 --> 00:01:26,500 He's led a team that he grew of more than 130 product designers, 24 00:01:26,500 --> 00:01:29,400 researchers Riders Engineers problem solved as the 25 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:33,500 illustrators overseeing Groups businesses that meet every 26 00:01:33,500 --> 00:01:37,800 essential human need Transportation food, and grocery 27 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,100 delivery. Logistic digital banking 28 00:01:41,300 --> 00:01:45,000 financial services and telemedicine, grab was listed. 29 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,600 Number two is one of the companies changing the world and 30 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,000 having a positive impact over the last two years of the 31 00:01:50,008 --> 00:01:54,600 pandemic prior to his Adventure at grab and Singapore. 32 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,200 He was head of design for artsy platform and head of design for 33 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,400 Etsy. Randy has been an entrepreneur 34 00:02:02,300 --> 00:02:05,300 Award winner at Etsy. His work one, the cooper-hewitt 35 00:02:05,300 --> 00:02:08,300 national design award for corporate and institutional 36 00:02:08,300 --> 00:02:12,000 advancement. He's also an author of project 37 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,500 of product design for the web, in which he, explorers the 38 00:02:15,500 --> 00:02:17,900 involving discipline of product. For those eight today's 39 00:02:17,900 --> 00:02:22,500 designers, he also co-founded Supermarket, a curated design 40 00:02:22,900 --> 00:02:27,300 Marketplace. It's in this capacity and as we 41 00:02:27,300 --> 00:02:31,300 talked about Randy, as band for years and active writer critic, 42 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:33,800 and visiting designer at many colleges universities. 43 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,100 Well, so without further Ado, I introduce you our Fireside, the 44 00:02:37,100 --> 00:02:39,900 one and only Randy hunt. Welcome good, sir. 45 00:02:40,900 --> 00:02:43,200 Thank you. Thank you for having me and 46 00:02:43,500 --> 00:02:48,300 everyone, it's really a great to have you here and you know in 47 00:02:48,300 --> 00:02:50,900 our conversations I'd like to start off with this question. 48 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,200 One of the things that I noticed it's really been a throughput 49 00:02:54,300 --> 00:02:59,000 put in your career, whether it was Supermarket, the curated 50 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:03,000 designs Marketplace or your work at Etsy or even some of the work 51 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,500 that you've done it grab there's this notion of economic 52 00:03:06,500 --> 00:03:11,100 empowerment through design you know speak a bit about that and 53 00:03:11,100 --> 00:03:13,400 how that's been a throughput over the years that you it 54 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:15,800 really shows up when you look back over your career knows 55 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,200 those faces. Yeah. 56 00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:20,700 Yeah, nice. Nice Insight. 57 00:03:20,700 --> 00:03:24,800 Yeah, well, I think also, when you look back, you know, And 58 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,400 path can really rather you know rational or looking like mix 59 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,600 sensitive. Great arrested as it's 60 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,300 happening. The didn't necessarily feel that 61 00:03:34,300 --> 00:03:36,000 way all the time. Although maybe underneath there 62 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:37,700 were some interests or themes. Yeah. 63 00:03:37,700 --> 00:03:42,900 And I think that for me, personally, when I was much 64 00:03:42,900 --> 00:03:47,600 younger, I was, you know, I had started several different small 65 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,900 businesses. I've started ran a record, label 66 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,600 ran a small design studio, some of the things that kind of 67 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:57,600 predate. you know, things you listed in an introduction and 68 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:02,500 that was really meaningful experience for me in that, it 69 00:04:02,500 --> 00:04:07,800 felt The both creative from sort of a problem-solving standpoint 70 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,400 by running these businesses and start even, but it also felt 71 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:17,200 really kind of like liberating or empowering to be kind of the 72 00:04:17,700 --> 00:04:21,300 more full agency over. What was happening, you know, to 73 00:04:21,300 --> 00:04:26,000 make decisions that matter to decide what to focus on and do 74 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,100 was always just active to be like at that stage of my life 75 00:04:29,100 --> 00:04:32,200 and maybe a channeled, some of my like, punk rock energy into 76 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:34,300 something, right? Like really productive Active or 77 00:04:34,300 --> 00:04:36,500 something. And so I was really attracted to 78 00:04:36,500 --> 00:04:42,700 that at a very personal level. And then I started to I think 79 00:04:42,700 --> 00:04:46,400 just kind of become aware of the fact that many other people. 80 00:04:48,700 --> 00:04:52,100 I have that same experience or have that same desire to have 81 00:04:52,100 --> 00:04:55,900 that same experience. You know that's a this you know 82 00:04:55,900 --> 00:04:58,700 I've got this business idea and I want to get off the ground or 83 00:04:58,700 --> 00:05:03,300 I have this product idea and no I think the that appeal was 84 00:05:03,300 --> 00:05:06,900 something I could relate to and understood was often more sort 85 00:05:06,900 --> 00:05:11,200 of Universal at that level. Then I think the next layer is, 86 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,700 as time passes, I see that my understanding of the world gets 87 00:05:14,700 --> 00:05:17,000 a little more nuanced and sophisticated, probably less 88 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,600 self-centered and You know, you start to understand or I started 89 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:27,700 to, you know, understand that the the way in which we can like 90 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,600 earn money essentially or sort of like create value be 91 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,200 compensated for it in the context of sort of how our 92 00:05:33,700 --> 00:05:41,500 economic system works. Is there like a lot of 93 00:05:41,500 --> 00:05:46,000 constraints and sort of a lot of opportunities and Sometimes it 94 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,900 is difficult for people to pass from like one to the other, you 95 00:05:49,900 --> 00:05:52,100 know, to go from the environment of constraints, to the 96 00:05:52,108 --> 00:05:54,300 environment of, like, seeing this as possibilities, and 97 00:05:54,300 --> 00:05:57,200 having that same thing I saw is kind of like creative 98 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,000 self-expression. They might also see that way 99 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,600 leads to like, a fulfilling life experience, maybe it just sort 100 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:10,100 of drive one zone and sort of making one's living, right bike, 101 00:06:10,100 --> 00:06:18,400 sort of on your own terms and that Doing work that helps 102 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,500 enable that became like very meaningful or appealing to me. 103 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:27,900 And so that was I suppose, if we Zoom way out, we could call it 104 00:06:27,900 --> 00:06:29,900 design, which is okay. Every time I designed a big 105 00:06:29,900 --> 00:06:34,200 scale, but I think that in a much simpler way, it was just 106 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:39,700 like what these businesses were about, you know, like the nature 107 00:06:39,700 --> 00:06:42,300 of kind of a Marketplace business, you know, and I've 108 00:06:42,300 --> 00:06:43,800 been involved in many Marketplace businesses. 109 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,200 You have some like supply side of this Marketplace that has 110 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:53,500 some service to offer Goods to sell and when the people 111 00:06:54,700 --> 00:06:58,300 Operating that supply side of the market, place are 112 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,200 individuals and small businesses. 113 00:07:03,300 --> 00:07:09,200 The success of the whole Enterprise is predicated on 114 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,500 creating success for all of these individuals and small 115 00:07:11,500 --> 00:07:15,000 businesses. And that I find very meaningful 116 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:16,900 work. It relates to that path of kind 117 00:07:16,900 --> 00:07:19,900 of moving from 91 economic position to another and, you 118 00:07:19,900 --> 00:07:23,800 know, the freedom to kind of control ones and big ones. 119 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:32,600 Living on one son's terms or more so and I found that easy to 120 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,100 wake up every day and be motivated to work on it. 121 00:07:35,100 --> 00:07:37,800 Really simple and I guess I can feel proud of that work in that 122 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,600 context and I think that has been probably letter the series 123 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:43,800 of decisions over time, that looks like keep working on that 124 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:48,700 thing. So when you think about this and 125 00:07:48,700 --> 00:07:51,800 it in really is conversation at the mic at the micro level. 126 00:07:52,100 --> 00:07:55,300 When you went to grab your listed as one of the fastest 127 00:07:55,300 --> 00:07:57,900 growing startup. So moving in scale, but still 128 00:07:57,900 --> 00:08:02,000 talking about impacting lives in Southeast Asian in ways that you 129 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,800 can become a part of grabs Mission and platform. 130 00:08:05,300 --> 00:08:07,600 So what were the biggest challenges you had from going 131 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,500 from, you know, working with the smaller businesses in a very 132 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,100 direct way to this larger platform. 133 00:08:15,500 --> 00:08:20,300 Mmm. Yeah, so I think the well, the 134 00:08:20,300 --> 00:08:28,100 challenges are many, but I think the Wanna all the platform is 135 00:08:28,100 --> 00:08:31,700 larger, meaning they're more part tense in the marketplace, 136 00:08:31,900 --> 00:08:34,200 right? Both the general consumers, 137 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,000 consuming the services as well as people supplying them. 138 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,299 So maybe we'll take a very specific example that everyone 139 00:08:39,299 --> 00:08:42,000 can relate to at this point. I think, after two years of, you 140 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,000 know, lockdowns and corn beans and working from home, like, 141 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,800 like food delivery as one of the services that we offer right on 142 00:08:48,900 --> 00:08:50,400 your baton the you know, headquartered in Singapore, but 143 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,700 actually across southeast Asia. Need to cram trees though. 144 00:08:53,100 --> 00:08:56,100 Indonesia Malaysia, Thailand Vietnam. 145 00:08:56,300 --> 00:09:02,100 Nam Philippines, Cambodia and actually Myanmar or which, of 146 00:09:02,100 --> 00:09:04,000 course, our business. In Myanmar is in a very 147 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,900 different position after the overthrow of the government 148 00:09:06,900 --> 00:09:08,700 there. Be no, some wild things that 149 00:09:08,700 --> 00:09:10,800 happen in other parts of the world. 150 00:09:12,100 --> 00:09:19,100 The so, in the context of like food delivery of vast, majority 151 00:09:19,100 --> 00:09:22,100 of the food businesses that people are buying from, you 152 00:09:22,100 --> 00:09:26,100 know, through our software platform are extremely small. 153 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:30,100 Mall. Businesses, sure. 154 00:09:30,100 --> 00:09:32,800 There's a, you know, there's a chain restaurant, as well, as 155 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,200 through this, maybe I Donald's or a Jollibee or something, and 156 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,400 that exists as well, the vast vast majority of them already 157 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,800 behind him, right? You know what we would call like 158 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:43,800 a mom and pop shop in the states or something. 159 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:45,600 But you know what? That looks like. 160 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,700 If sometimes a food like a food cart, you know, and like a 161 00:09:49,708 --> 00:09:53,700 non-permanent food car on the side of the road and, you know, 162 00:09:53,700 --> 00:09:55,800 and like Jakarta Indonesia or something. 163 00:09:57,500 --> 00:10:06,400 And the the challenges. Are less about the scale and 164 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,400 some of the size. But I'd say the challenges you 165 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:13,000 about the variety of customers and their needs and experiences 166 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:17,300 because of that size. So this very informal food cart 167 00:10:17,300 --> 00:10:20,800 example, right? Which is very likely owned and 168 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,900 operated by the same person who does all of the work, like 169 00:10:24,900 --> 00:10:27,200 they're buying the raw ingredients on their way, to 170 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,100 their car, they're pushing the cart around to making the food, 171 00:10:29,100 --> 00:10:31,400 they're selling it. The entire thing is happening 172 00:10:31,900 --> 00:10:38,900 with this one individual And then in at the same time, you 173 00:10:38,900 --> 00:10:42,100 might have a small restaurant. Also in Jakarta, you know, for 174 00:10:42,100 --> 00:10:44,600 someone who maybe owns three or four small restaurants in 175 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,600 Jakarta, these are still pretty informal. 176 00:10:47,900 --> 00:10:51,100 It may have even been primarily cash businesses, 24 months ago 177 00:10:51,300 --> 00:10:53,800 or something. Wow. 178 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,500 The only, you know, family owned and operated, then you might 179 00:10:56,500 --> 00:10:59,600 have sort of Singapore. That is a small Restaurant 180 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,000 Group, right? Which is still in like, a global 181 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,100 sense, very much alike, smaller medium. 182 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,200 That's right. But you might have restaurant 183 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:10,100 managers at five locations. This they might have you know 50 184 00:11:10,100 --> 00:11:14,500 60 70 employees across these multiple locations and the the 185 00:11:15,100 --> 00:11:20,300 what you need to create as a software experience to enable 186 00:11:20,700 --> 00:11:22,900 all of the transactions to happen for those different kinds 187 00:11:22,900 --> 00:11:26,300 of users are pretty radically different. 188 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,000 Even though to URI if we were going to order food from them 189 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,500 would cry, pull up a menu. We've searched for maybe, when 190 00:11:31,500 --> 00:11:34,100 we like to reseal was close to Dad like that delivery. 191 00:11:34,300 --> 00:11:35,900 You should order. So the consumer experience is 192 00:11:35,900 --> 00:11:39,100 similar ish, but underneath those businesses and the 193 00:11:39,100 --> 00:11:42,900 conditions they're operating in are pretty radically different. 194 00:11:43,500 --> 00:11:45,700 And that I think is where some of the biggest challenges, this 195 00:11:45,700 --> 00:11:49,000 kind of the what we would call like hyper localization. 196 00:11:49,700 --> 00:11:52,900 Yeah, yeah. Hey, you know, it's really 197 00:11:53,100 --> 00:11:56,700 telling for everyone in our audience, Randy was Stateside 198 00:11:56,700 --> 00:12:00,400 and you decide to take this adventure to pack up and take on 199 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:02,100 this business challenge to move the Singapore. 200 00:12:02,100 --> 00:12:05,800 So I have two questions for you like, You know, how did you feel 201 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,300 about taking this leap into what? 202 00:12:08,700 --> 00:12:11,000 How is this experience made you a better designer? 203 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:17,300 And design leader? I mean, I felt both know, you 204 00:12:17,300 --> 00:12:22,500 know, Nervous and excited or I suppose like anxious in both, 205 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:30,700 you know all senses of the term. Yeah, it was a Like I was ready 206 00:12:30,700 --> 00:12:33,500 to experience something different at a professional 207 00:12:33,500 --> 00:12:40,600 level and that was, I think driven by feeling like I had, 208 00:12:42,100 --> 00:12:44,600 you know, I, my experience has been that I have like very steep 209 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,200 growth curves and then things will kind of like level out and 210 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,800 you have to drive, you have to create change the experience, 211 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,500 some other kind of growth experience, right? 212 00:12:53,500 --> 00:12:55,800 Sometimes it's in the same company, Your Role sometimes 213 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,300 switching to major industries and I feel like I was at one of 214 00:12:58,308 --> 00:13:01,700 those places. I got very curious about how I 215 00:13:01,700 --> 00:13:03,800 could create like some radical growth. 216 00:13:04,300 --> 00:13:09,100 And as I looked around at the other possibilities that seen 217 00:13:09,100 --> 00:13:13,300 more obvious to me or natural based on my geography, the 218 00:13:13,300 --> 00:13:15,900 industry as working in my existing Network these things. 219 00:13:16,900 --> 00:13:20,800 None of them felt very radical. You know I kind of like the 220 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,000 number of the were similar and we're quite successful in 221 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,300 various you know, commercial lenses or my own qualitative, 222 00:13:27,300 --> 00:13:30,200 assessment of them for like how proud We Are of the Wood and 223 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:35,400 things like that. And so started to look further 224 00:13:35,700 --> 00:13:37,900 afield. Both conceptually or like 225 00:13:37,900 --> 00:13:40,200 metaphorically and then it ended up being like quite literally on 226 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:46,800 the opposite side of the planet. And that was very like very 227 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,500 intentional to write change context that a pretty like 228 00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:54,800 radical way. And so I was also feeling quite 229 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:59,700 like while nervous also proud of it, I think for myself for being 230 00:13:59,900 --> 00:14:02,400 Link to take the risk. Her something like that. 231 00:14:02,500 --> 00:14:07,800 Yeah. What does the second part of 232 00:14:07,808 --> 00:14:11,500 your question was? How did this make me? 233 00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:16,100 I think a better design leader. Their leader, no, I think that 234 00:14:16,100 --> 00:14:24,800 the The cultural context is one very different and so I think 235 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:29,500 that just forces your you to be even more adaptable, more 236 00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:31,500 open-minded. You know, I consider myself a 237 00:14:31,500 --> 00:14:37,200 quiet like open-minded person and but but yeah, the cultural 238 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:41,000 context is just different forces, you know, lots of 239 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,000 different interesting learning from life experience and we 240 00:14:43,008 --> 00:14:45,400 could decrypt the given to those or something. 241 00:14:45,900 --> 00:14:50,600 The other is a, I think that it Helped me. 242 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,500 See you? That the like even more. 243 00:14:53,500 --> 00:14:56,100 That there are like there are many ways to accomplish things, 244 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,900 you know, there are many like methods many approaches, and 245 00:14:58,900 --> 00:15:02,900 there's not really like a, a way, you know, and you can 246 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:09,200 arrive at good outcomes through a number of means, and also that 247 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:14,700 the what identify something, as, you know, a good outcome can 248 00:15:14,700 --> 00:15:17,000 also change in the in the context, you know? 249 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,800 Like the cultural context but also the industry the moment of 250 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,800 time in that industry and yes the number a number of things. 251 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:35,100 I think it left me feeling less certain right in a good way. 252 00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:36,700 Yeah right. I'm like what? 253 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:41,900 Even even more open I suppose chemo open to to the change in 254 00:15:41,908 --> 00:15:44,700 the space in there. So you know one of the things 255 00:15:44,700 --> 00:15:47,100 that I thought was really interesting when you look at 256 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:49,200 actually got to redo tough things. 257 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:50,900 We're Anna, go back a little bit. 258 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,300 I was reading one of the pieces you wrote almost about 10 years 259 00:15:55,300 --> 00:16:00,100 ago, now, in Fast Company. And it was your thoughts on 260 00:16:00,100 --> 00:16:03,100 design. And it was this conversation 261 00:16:03,100 --> 00:16:08,200 about cleverness. And how sometimes we met in in 262 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:12,000 love of our own design, get in the way of our true impact in 263 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,700 space. With, with being overly clever, 264 00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:18,100 I love, I love for you to give me a couple words on that. 265 00:16:18,100 --> 00:16:20,500 It's been about 10 years. Since she wrote that piece for 266 00:16:20,500 --> 00:16:23,800 Fast Company and I wonder if you still feel those Saints for 267 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,600 those who haven't had a chance to check it out, I give you a 268 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,300 reading assignment for this week in the checkout. 269 00:16:28,300 --> 00:16:32,400 Randy's piece. Yeah, it's interesting. 270 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,100 Okay, so this and I took you back that that was a surprise 271 00:16:36,100 --> 00:16:43,000 for you because I read that and also I mean that that particular 272 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:48,500 sort of article if you will this like I say is an expanded upon 273 00:16:48,500 --> 00:16:52,100 in the book that I wrote that was published in May 2013 for 274 00:16:52,100 --> 00:16:56,100 something to place that in time. So yeah, even that yeah, almost 275 00:16:56,100 --> 00:17:03,700 a decade ago, the so, the The point I was making in this piece 276 00:17:03,700 --> 00:17:09,500 was really around the like, based on the observations I have 277 00:17:10,300 --> 00:17:14,400 around common behaviors that are happening in the industry at the 278 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,099 time. Particularly with many new 279 00:17:17,099 --> 00:17:20,800 people coming into, what like the software design space. 280 00:17:20,900 --> 00:17:25,800 I often from other design fields and disciplines and this is 281 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,099 still happening today. But it's, you know, things have 282 00:17:28,108 --> 00:17:31,800 evolved again in many ways with a, I think more of an emphasis 283 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:33,800 on What? Today I would call you like 284 00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:37,700 Grand Design or something like that and maybe sometimes putting 285 00:17:37,700 --> 00:17:43,900 an overemphasis on the stylistic layer of the designed experience 286 00:17:45,700 --> 00:17:48,700 from the writing standpoint. You know, kind of sometimes 287 00:17:48,700 --> 00:17:54,400 missing utility or compromising utility a bit much by my 288 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,100 opinion, you know, for the sake of trying to be expressive and 289 00:17:58,100 --> 00:18:01,000 things. So there's a bit of a argument 290 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:07,200 for More rationalized like approach to creating the 291 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:12,800 software experience. I believe this is still a good 292 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,700 point of view in general. However, I think we've also 293 00:18:16,700 --> 00:18:19,900 arrived at a place and maybe this isn't is in fact, relevant 294 00:18:19,900 --> 00:18:22,500 to the experience. We were just talking about like, 295 00:18:22,500 --> 00:18:28,000 here in here in Southeast Asian. Well, when, when you're trying 296 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:32,200 to establish, I believe, like new behaviors for you. 297 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,100 Workers consumers, users, whatever the terminology, maybe 298 00:18:35,100 --> 00:18:38,800 you're auditing answer. Sometimes like being like very 299 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,200 clear and direct and simplifying and kind of like letting the 300 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:46,500 things be what they are without dressing them up, too much. 301 00:18:46,500 --> 00:18:53,400 Can be effective in helping people truly understand the 302 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,200 thing, which is different than maybe making the same attractive 303 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:58,900 to them or capturing their attention. 304 00:18:59,700 --> 00:19:01,200 To want to understand the things. 305 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,600 So this is a distinction yet, but this realness, like, 306 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:08,300 directness allows you to, I think sort of educate in a way 307 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,900 implicitly. You know, the thing is so kind 308 00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:15,300 of simple and clear and it says, what it does, you know, it's all 309 00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:19,700 quite straightforward. The challenge though, with this 310 00:19:19,700 --> 00:19:21,400 approach. If I could like disagree with my 311 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,200 past self or get more nuanced. Yeah. 312 00:19:23,300 --> 00:19:26,000 Is that one? There's a point I need and 313 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:31,000 that's why I love it. Batting haven't read anyway. 314 00:19:31,100 --> 00:19:33,000 Yeah, I wanted. When did you have the chance to 315 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,200 do that? It's always good to kind of 316 00:19:35,208 --> 00:19:36,800 challenge. Our own words and think about 317 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:38,000 it. So yeah, go for it. 318 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,000 Yeah, yeah. I think the thing must be 319 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,600 appealing, right? There's a and that the stylistic 320 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:53,300 layer plays a role in creating like an attraction or a desire a 321 00:19:53,300 --> 00:19:56,100 curiosity or interest that might bring one to use. 322 00:19:56,100 --> 00:20:00,800 Try engage with something. The other from sort of like a 323 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,700 business standpoint, I'm kind of like a competitive standpoint is 324 00:20:04,700 --> 00:20:09,500 that, you know, if I rewind 10-15 years, the kinds of things 325 00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:13,000 we're working on. We're in many cases, very novel. 326 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:17,000 Like they were, if not the first, they were very early in a 327 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,200 kind of experience like this and in some cases like, like an Etsy 328 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:26,600 or something, it was one of the first sort of like Successful 329 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,100 like social commerce things and not like generation UNC like an 330 00:20:30,100 --> 00:20:33,400 older experienced something like eBay or something, it was 331 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,900 evolving, but kind of at this moment in time it was a bit of a 332 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:42,000 standard Bear, right? But as time passes, most things 333 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:46,200 that are not old and new start to become normalized, even the 334 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,300 kind of like spread into the culture, like either products 335 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:53,300 business and services start to Adopt the same patterns because 336 00:20:53,300 --> 00:20:55,400 they sort of work and then because they're adopted, they 337 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,400 become nor will, you know? And they it all starts to feel 338 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,200 like default, right? And the same, that's really good 339 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,100 for like a usability standpoint. I can kind of move around 340 00:21:04,100 --> 00:21:06,800 between a number of things and expect them to work. 341 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,400 Similarly think we're seeing something like this right now 342 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:13,000 with the kind of like Tick-Tock style like full screen but like 343 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,700 flip the video to the next thing about Instagram stories like the 344 00:21:16,700 --> 00:21:19,400 side, big nose happening in snap, but there's a few of these 345 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,200 behaviors that start to become so normal. 346 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:22,300 You see? Somewhere else and you 347 00:21:22,300 --> 00:21:23,800 automatically know how to do them. 348 00:21:23,900 --> 00:21:27,500 That's great. The problem from like a business 349 00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:38,000 standpoint, Is that the thing? I was maybe advocating against 350 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:43,200 the cleverness. And things like that, things 351 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:47,200 that makes the experience may be more unique which could 352 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,000 potentially be less straightforward like a little 353 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,300 more poetry in the experience also. 354 00:21:51,300 --> 00:21:53,900 Maybe what distinguishes it from other things that are largely 355 00:21:53,900 --> 00:21:56,900 similar, right? And so now becomes a point of 356 00:21:56,900 --> 00:21:59,700 differentiation. If you're looking at sort of 357 00:21:59,700 --> 00:22:03,200 commodity products, in a way, if I think about the things I was 358 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,900 working on a grab at some level, they were, there's like, you 359 00:22:05,900 --> 00:22:09,200 know, we were the leader in nearly every category and every 360 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,200 Market we are operating in, but that doesn't mean that were 361 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,400 competitors. And, you know, deliver food from 362 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,500 A to B or provide some service is largely a commodity service. 363 00:22:18,500 --> 00:22:22,900 Like you can you know other people can offer the same thing. 364 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,000 You know, you might get on price but at some level he just 365 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,000 competing on price, you know, down down down, that doesn't fit 366 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,700 the model. So you have to become attractive 367 00:22:30,700 --> 00:22:32,700 and appealing to the customer for other reasons. 368 00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:35,300 Yeah. So then you're wanting to 369 00:22:35,300 --> 00:22:37,100 distinguish yourself and be different. 370 00:22:37,100 --> 00:22:40,800 And so all of those, you know, if you reduce the thing to it's 371 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:46,300 pure T the most straightforward understandable usable part of it 372 00:22:46,300 --> 00:22:49,800 and have massage, without any sense of things. 373 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,500 I might create an emotional relationship for the consumer, 374 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,600 you're missing the opportunity from like a business strategy 375 00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:01,400 standpoint too. Attractor retain customers, 376 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:08,400 without essentially, like buying their loyalty with cheaper 377 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,600 prices or discounts or something like that. 378 00:23:12,100 --> 00:23:16,200 Now when when we think about that kind of maturation 379 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,500 arkwright coming in on platforms with your new and new ideas. 380 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:21,200 That's something that's that's another thing. 381 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,700 That's been a Hallmark of your career being early in creating 382 00:23:23,700 --> 00:23:27,900 the spaces, we've been talking a bit about, you know, what's next 383 00:23:27,900 --> 00:23:29,800 on the horizon? Rison in our conversations and 384 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,200 firesides and allow the conversations of stemmed around 385 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,900 designs role and problem solving in the fintech space or kind of 386 00:23:37,900 --> 00:23:40,900 next level of Engagement around that what are some of your 387 00:23:40,900 --> 00:23:43,400 thoughts about what's next for design? 388 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,300 As we think about these other opportunities. 389 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,400 Yeah, sure. I mean, gosh, there's a lot, 390 00:23:49,500 --> 00:23:52,100 it's a lot happening, you know, at some level that's, you know, 391 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,500 designs moment. It kind of feels like that. 392 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,800 It really does. Yeah, over and over again, but 393 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:04,000 it feels like one of those moments now I think we can't 394 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,300 ignore this sort of macroeconomic conditions that 395 00:24:06,300 --> 00:24:10,200 informed that that have to do with the you know particularly 396 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:15,100 as we look at at the technology parts of this space because of 397 00:24:15,100 --> 00:24:20,100 the funding models and venture capital and the potential for 398 00:24:20,300 --> 00:24:22,900 you know software scale, businesses to operate extremely 399 00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:29,600 efficiently you know as they mature that you know there's a 400 00:24:29,608 --> 00:24:33,100 lot of capital looking for places to go. 401 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,800 That has the potential to rip, you know, have greater returns 402 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,000 than elsewhere. So it ends up being a lot of 403 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,200 money flowing through the system, which means a lot of, 404 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,200 you know, there's just a lot of activity, you know, happening 405 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,600 and happening very quickly, and lots of people taking risks and 406 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,700 Bets. That's an important, you know, 407 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,500 the context that some of this is happening in, right? 408 00:24:54,500 --> 00:24:56,600 And that's why you see like a big get it right? 409 00:24:56,900 --> 00:24:59,400 Yeah. Explosion of like fin Tech stuff 410 00:25:00,900 --> 00:25:04,800 is I think in part because nest A side, move slower for a while, 411 00:25:05,300 --> 00:25:08,400 you know, but the other part is, like, with lots of capital 412 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,200 reserves and things that feel different than even like a 413 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,800 decade ago or something, you know, smaller, like up starting 414 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:21,200 companies can do things, like lend money, you know, these sort 415 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:26,100 of like a Kelowna and, you know, I told me and he's gonna pay 416 00:25:26,100 --> 00:25:29,000 later services that have kind of come out of nowhere, right? 417 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,800 Feel like, they've come out of nowhere, the last, like, four or 418 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,200 five years and are now, you know, Interest-free, for 419 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,600 installment payments kinds of thing, you know, it's like I 420 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,500 lie, you know, competitive space, super hot really fast. 421 00:25:40,900 --> 00:25:43,800 That's very interesting to see. I'm not saying it's good, I'm 422 00:25:43,808 --> 00:25:46,100 saying it's interesting. Yeah. 423 00:25:46,100 --> 00:25:47,900 Right. Because they get rapid changes 424 00:25:47,900 --> 00:25:51,800 in consumer Behavior, powered by like the availability of 425 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,800 software its willingness to take risk to Market itself very 426 00:25:55,800 --> 00:26:00,900 aggressively. But at the same time, it is 427 00:26:01,300 --> 00:26:04,000 forming. Maybe habits your As a consumer 428 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,600 it's offering a product that you know through the credenzas is 429 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:17,400 effectively like you know on unsecured, you know loan loans, 430 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,700 effectively like high interest, loans of you if you default on 431 00:26:19,700 --> 00:26:23,100 these things and some would argue creates like spending 432 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,500 patterns that are unhealthy or relationship of the spending 433 00:26:25,500 --> 00:26:28,400 patterns are and healthy other say like this amazing people are 434 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,400 getting like approved for a short-term, you know, financing 435 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,800 on something. Wouldn't get approved otherwise, 436 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:36,800 you know because we're not going through typical kind of like 437 00:26:38,300 --> 00:26:40,600 credit approval processes and things like that. 438 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,200 So yeah, I think that's very interesting. 439 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,100 What is happening? Just an example of this kind of 440 00:26:46,100 --> 00:26:50,300 like pay later Services, the larger space, the what, maybe 441 00:26:50,300 --> 00:26:52,200 what is most interesting about? That is how fast it has 442 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,900 happened, right? And then how like, how fast the 443 00:26:56,900 --> 00:27:00,900 businesses like come to exist, grow are copied the way, you 444 00:27:00,908 --> 00:27:02,900 know, the business model is replicated weather. 445 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,200 You know, across regions. Hey, this is working in EM, you 446 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:08,300 know, this is working in Mainland Europe. 447 00:27:08,300 --> 00:27:11,000 Let's do it in Australia, fast them same idea, you know, before 448 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,700 the competitor extends globally, we're going to like do it in the 449 00:27:13,700 --> 00:27:15,300 local market. Get a stronghold. 450 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:19,000 You see this happening very, very quickly but the other is 451 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,200 actually know that the regulatory conversation around 452 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:23,500 these things. Right? 453 00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:28,000 You know, is quite dynamic as well, which I did find also 454 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,300 interesting. Again not necessarily good or 455 00:27:30,308 --> 00:27:32,900 bad sometimes. Yes. 456 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,800 Good or bad. But like largely, I find it very 457 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:40,500 intellectually interesting. And in some cases we feel like 458 00:27:40,500 --> 00:27:43,300 you know, the regulation is a slow and trails the kind of 459 00:27:43,300 --> 00:27:46,100 business Innovation. Another cases like Regulators 460 00:27:46,100 --> 00:27:49,500 are acting quite quickly in some cases and maybe like 461 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,900 aggressively in some you know cases in some markets and I 462 00:27:54,908 --> 00:27:59,300 think that makes for a very exciting climate to go sort of 463 00:27:59,300 --> 00:28:03,600 be working in. Yeah, I sell and so many So many 464 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,800 of these Ventures are from the start design richly. 465 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,500 Design-driven, we're going to take some before that they're 466 00:28:10,500 --> 00:28:14,300 starting in and that waiting to grow into being designed for it. 467 00:28:14,300 --> 00:28:18,100 Many of these Ventures are starting This is true. 468 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:24,300 Yes. And I think you're staying There 469 00:28:24,700 --> 00:28:32,500 is a bit more often. You are seeing some they I was 470 00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:37,100 a, the Baseline level of sort of the design execution. 471 00:28:37,300 --> 00:28:40,200 The user experience thinking that kind of like customer 472 00:28:40,700 --> 00:28:46,200 experience lens being elevated quite early, right? 473 00:28:47,500 --> 00:28:51,000 Which is super cool to see. But interestingly, I think many 474 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,100 of these organizations, maybe these brands are built. 475 00:28:53,300 --> 00:28:56,900 Sir products then hit another, you know, we've like made this 476 00:28:56,900 --> 00:28:59,400 amazing thing happened where like often the design is there 477 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,200 at the beginning? They're competing from a brand 478 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,300 positioning standpoint, very early as well. 479 00:29:05,300 --> 00:29:09,300 Brands are like Dynamic nicely executed, you know, in-house 480 00:29:09,300 --> 00:29:12,700 teams and right design, firms and studios around the world are 481 00:29:12,700 --> 00:29:15,200 doing, like, you know, exceptionally good work on some 482 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:16,800 of the stuff. It's like really cool to see, 483 00:29:19,100 --> 00:29:26,400 but as they grow and scale there's Still seems to be a lack 484 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:32,800 of almost like the industry can't support the organizational 485 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,200 needs and the growth needs as quickly as they're happening the 486 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,500 businesses, right? So, I mean, the number of sort 487 00:29:39,500 --> 00:29:47,100 of like head of design, VP of design job, openings and many of 488 00:29:47,100 --> 00:29:50,700 these organizations is kind of baffling, right? 489 00:29:50,700 --> 00:29:57,600 While they struggle to, I think, Find and make successful the 490 00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,600 qualified candidates. I don't actually think there's a 491 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,300 lack of the qualified candidates but I think the it may be at any 492 00:30:03,300 --> 00:30:05,200 particular Market or Niche. There might there might be a 493 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,800 stance but there are many many capable people who are qualified 494 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,400 for these roles in the industry but I think the way that the 495 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:18,000 industry finds identifies evaluates Talent right is 496 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,700 somewhat of a mismatch so that's why I say they can't quite keep 497 00:30:20,700 --> 00:30:25,100 up the right because what you made Needed someone to need to 498 00:30:25,100 --> 00:30:28,100 take a risk on the leader because actually the person who 499 00:30:28,100 --> 00:30:31,500 is available in capable and interested in that space, 500 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,600 doesn't have a track record of doing the job before that, you 501 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,300 need them to do right now. I'm going to be a first-time. 502 00:30:38,300 --> 00:30:41,500 VP you have people making like very aggressive business growth 503 00:30:41,500 --> 00:30:43,400 choices. Very conservative, like hiring 504 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,300 choices like, oh, we're looking for the person who's done this 505 00:30:46,300 --> 00:30:48,700 thing before but some of these things are so novel. 506 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:54,300 But there are very few people who can, you know, That we can 507 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,100 say, I've done this three times before that. 508 00:30:57,100 --> 00:30:59,500 That's like the Battle Scars. That's a joke. 509 00:30:59,500 --> 00:31:02,000 Yeah, definitely credible point. We always see an innovation 510 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,200 spaces in their organizations will say they want novel, new, 511 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,600 or Innovative. But to your point, the default 512 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,300 in hiring becomes the classic. Have you done this before in a 513 00:31:12,300 --> 00:31:14,800 space? That looks just like it and it's 514 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,600 really impossible to do that when the spaces are shaping up 515 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,000 and things that we haven't seen before, our spacing in the 516 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:21,500 space. That there's there hasn't been 517 00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:22,700 this face. What? 518 00:31:22,900 --> 00:31:24,900 What advice would you have? I mean, one of the things that 519 00:31:24,900 --> 00:31:27,000 you've been able to do is kind of break through in a global 520 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,000 sense. What advice would you have for 521 00:31:29,500 --> 00:31:32,500 members of a design Community who are looking to take this 522 00:31:32,500 --> 00:31:35,500 next level risk? You know, what can they do to 523 00:31:35,500 --> 00:31:38,800 become their own advocates for jumping into some of these 524 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,400 opportunities with success? It's a great question. 525 00:31:41,500 --> 00:31:43,800 I'm slow, slowly. Considering the answer it is. 526 00:31:44,100 --> 00:31:46,200 I think there's is very kind of like tactical. 527 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:47,800 Like the Practical advice though. 528 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:55,000 My first answer, which is I think that the There are many. 529 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:03,100 Third parties recruiters that are, you know, hired by a number 530 00:32:03,100 --> 00:32:06,600 of these companies, or sometimes their investors who represent, 531 00:32:06,700 --> 00:32:10,500 often many roles inside many organizations simultaneously. 532 00:32:11,100 --> 00:32:17,300 The that are just an extremely powerful, kind of like entry 533 00:32:17,300 --> 00:32:22,600 point into the space. And I find that, you know, the 534 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,600 He's good recruiters or head under his, or do you want to, 535 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,200 you know, call them rent. Their interests are quite 536 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,900 aligned with yours, you know. Like they want you to get the 537 00:32:33,900 --> 00:32:35,400 job as well. Yeah. 538 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,400 Right. The whole model is predicated on 539 00:32:39,500 --> 00:32:44,300 that working, you know? And so I think in some case, 540 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,200 dude, it's like having once been aware of that. 541 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:48,600 I mean, some people in the design industry are very, very 542 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,000 aware of this practice and almost like having recruiters 543 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,200 work on your behalf like to take you in Bound. 544 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,900 To, you know, organizations or connecting with their clients. 545 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,100 But if you are not do should, you know, look into that. 546 00:33:01,100 --> 00:33:03,900 Maybe we can share some resources with the word 547 00:33:03,900 --> 00:33:08,500 Innovation, leader or something, the end. 548 00:33:09,700 --> 00:33:12,900 They have likely helped represent in position people 549 00:33:12,900 --> 00:33:16,200 with similar backgrounds and still skip skill sets as your 550 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,800 own into these kinds of rules before you know they're doing 551 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,600 this all the time. So they may understand what 552 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:27,000 works from a, you know. What things to emphasize me 553 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:33,800 experience or how to who and how to kind of enter the 554 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:38,000 conversation with the with the organizations because they know 555 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,200 their clients or they know these clients, they work for in the 556 00:33:40,208 --> 00:33:42,200 past. They know these rules, they know 557 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,500 the personalities of the hiring managers or the founders of the 558 00:33:44,500 --> 00:33:48,700 companies and can help you bridge that, you know, so it's 559 00:33:48,700 --> 00:33:53,100 not all in the design leaders, you know, shoulder and it away 560 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,900 They're kind of expert in that bridge building and I think a 561 00:33:57,908 --> 00:34:02,700 large part of it is around helping see the it's about 562 00:34:02,700 --> 00:34:06,900 potential over experience or potential as much as experience. 563 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:13,000 And so communicating, the how it's less about the evidence of 564 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,500 have you done this before, and it's more about the evidence of 565 00:34:16,699 --> 00:34:20,800 having successfully figured out to do things you have not done 566 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,300 before, right? Right. 567 00:34:22,300 --> 00:34:24,300 Like that's the, that's the right. 568 00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:29,100 Key story in the track record and then it becomes, I think the 569 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:35,000 positioning becomes more precise around either, relative relevant 570 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,800 industry experience relevant, personal interests, finding 571 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:45,000 parallels between, you know, the specific experience you have. 572 00:34:45,100 --> 00:34:47,500 And this other experience that maybe your organization may not 573 00:34:47,500 --> 00:34:49,500 see. But that you can kind of help 574 00:34:49,500 --> 00:34:51,800 them understand through like metaphor through storytelling, 575 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:56,300 through case studies that Everybody has a customer 576 00:34:56,300 --> 00:34:59,600 acquisition problem. Everybody has a user retention 577 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,600 problem. Everybody wants more engagement, 578 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:02,900 everybody needs to operate the teamwork. 579 00:35:02,900 --> 00:35:05,400 Officially I ever, you know, some of these problems and 580 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,000 themes are quite similar and so no, it doesn't look like, you 581 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:14,800 know, you don't have 20 years working in my climate Tech and 582 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:21,500 but you do maybe have experienced being a team with a 583 00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:24,300 strong reputation. But you know, with Lois 584 00:35:24,500 --> 00:35:31,000 Attrition in a second-tier city. When the talent Market is 585 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,400 smaller neck out, that's an interesting position. 586 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,100 Now, you know, that says, like this is a unique match for this 587 00:35:37,100 --> 00:35:40,500 organization because they want to build, you know, trying to 588 00:35:40,508 --> 00:35:42,200 build team. And maybe a lower-cost market, 589 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:43,600 or it's very important for their business that they're 590 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,700 geographically located around the same thing. 591 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:47,900 You have experience in places like that. 592 00:35:47,900 --> 00:35:52,700 Yeah, I think it's about kind of like, you know, finding a less 593 00:35:52,700 --> 00:36:01,000 obvious but relevant evidence. And, you know, that kind of 594 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,600 fills in the gap between experience and potential. 595 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:07,900 So thinking about potential, we're going to spend a bit to 596 00:36:07,900 --> 00:36:12,200 look at the year ahead. What gets you excited my brother 597 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:16,000 about 20, 22? We're closing out the year now 598 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:21,100 and we have this whole new year ahead of us and from your 599 00:36:21,100 --> 00:36:23,700 perspective, as a design leader in a strategist. 600 00:36:23,700 --> 00:36:26,200 What are you most excited about for 2020? 601 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,500 Yeah, yeah. Oh my goodness, you know, I I 602 00:36:29,508 --> 00:36:37,600 think that the I mean, for sure, I'm quite excited about the the 603 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:44,600 That is a number of emerging technologies that are pork. 604 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,300 They feel emerging in the leg Zeitgeist, they've been existed 605 00:36:48,300 --> 00:36:49,800 in the background for a while, right? 606 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,400 They're coming into their mind, they are no yes that's kind of 607 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,900 like the butt end of the beginning. 608 00:36:55,900 --> 00:37:00,500 In a way for a number of interesting technology thing, 609 00:37:00,500 --> 00:37:03,000 that is a person who works very close to like service software 610 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,200 product design and Technology like this is Meaningful and fun 611 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,200 to be, you know, I don't know if I never called myself a 612 00:37:08,208 --> 00:37:11,500 technologist, but it's Us go forward for today. 613 00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:17,000 So yeah. So I think, I mean, one sort of 614 00:37:17,008 --> 00:37:19,700 like watching technology in a number of the things that are 615 00:37:19,700 --> 00:37:23,800 kind of loosely Under the Umbrella of like web 3 which you 616 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,200 know, someone who's like active in the space. 617 00:37:26,300 --> 00:37:29,200 Also doesn't really know how people are defining it. 618 00:37:29,300 --> 00:37:31,700 You still have it in the moment. It's gotten kind of like messy. 619 00:37:31,700 --> 00:37:34,300 There's been drift, I think in what the words mean. 620 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,600 But I think that this kind of next chapter feels like the 621 00:37:39,700 --> 00:37:42,300 First chapter like a consumer internet and level is becoming 622 00:37:42,300 --> 00:37:44,300 for a prominent that has to do with both. 623 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:52,300 You know, permanent record enabled by blockchain anonymity, 624 00:37:52,900 --> 00:38:00,900 like the potential for anonymity but also the history. 625 00:38:00,900 --> 00:38:02,900 So the interesting tension of ideas, right? 626 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,700 I have a history of all sorts of transactions are activities. 627 00:38:06,300 --> 00:38:11,800 That can be relatively, you know, This is designed to kind 628 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,600 of have anonymity, but at the same time because it is 629 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:21,400 decentralized and I own my, I have agency over my thing a lot 630 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,400 when we talk about right now is currency or it's like, I can be 631 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,100 my own bacon, like the cryptocurrency lens, but maybe 632 00:38:26,100 --> 00:38:30,600 abstracted even simpler like, I own my account. 633 00:38:31,100 --> 00:38:34,000 So, as opposed to having like a Google account Borough, Facebook 634 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,900 account, I have my account. And, uh, and this concept of 635 00:38:37,908 --> 00:38:42,600 that account, its identity. Can be portable across different 636 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:47,600 parts of the internet. And so you have anonymity, but 637 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,400 you also have like a portable identity. 638 00:38:50,100 --> 00:38:52,700 So you could choose to associate that, you know, it could be you, 639 00:38:52,700 --> 00:38:55,600 Benny, your Could Be You Under some pseudonym or you a string 640 00:38:55,600 --> 00:39:00,200 of numbers, doesn't matter from a technology standpoint, the 641 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:04,200 tension between these ideas permanent record in an enmity, 642 00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:09,400 portable identity to me is like very intellectually interesting, 643 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:15,200 I think it starts to create both very interesting experience 644 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,200 opportunities. We can create potentially value 645 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,900 for users to have more control over their Assets in their 646 00:39:22,900 --> 00:39:27,100 activity. It also creates, I think, you 647 00:39:27,100 --> 00:39:29,700 know, there's, there's business potential. 648 00:39:29,900 --> 00:39:33,500 There's also an interesting like Risk and interesting. 649 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,300 I think it's still relatively complex space. 650 00:39:38,700 --> 00:39:42,700 So as could It gets more exposed to the general consumer because 651 00:39:42,700 --> 00:39:44,900 back to us effective and clever kind of Glen line some way, 652 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,800 which is like, how do people understand how to participate in 653 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,800 a safe way rather than a, you know, protect themselves? 654 00:39:53,300 --> 00:39:57,400 Their data their assets and how they survive live, a secure 655 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,100 existence in the context of this technology change. 656 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:07,400 I think is very emergent and important space for like user 657 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:12,500 experience designers. I suspect, we will see a number 658 00:40:12,500 --> 00:40:16,900 of the sort of academics and critics, who really look at the 659 00:40:16,900 --> 00:40:20,900 things like this, through a ethics lens to have a great 660 00:40:20,900 --> 00:40:28,000 number of new, some topics in a way, for two issues to raise. 661 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,200 I think Dallas is like for practitioners to consider and 662 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:35,300 take responsibility for because it seems as though this next 663 00:40:35,300 --> 00:40:39,500 chapter that starting will likely affect a number of 664 00:40:39,500 --> 00:40:41,000 things. Things in our lives in ways, we 665 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:45,600 have not seen yet. Yeah, yeah. 666 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:47,600 That's exciting to be. I mean, that's where I'm most 667 00:40:47,700 --> 00:40:50,000 excited personally, and like spending time and energy, but 668 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,700 I'm also quite enjoying watching the sort of augment Duty space 669 00:40:53,700 --> 00:40:57,200 in particular, okay, developing. So I think we're seeing consumer 670 00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:01,500 utility there. And You're like meaningful ways, 671 00:41:01,500 --> 00:41:04,100 you know, it's kind of gone beyond prototypes or like beef 672 00:41:04,100 --> 00:41:06,900 kind of like you know, technologist nerds or industrial 673 00:41:06,900 --> 00:41:09,400 applications or military applications to like more 674 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,000 everyday uses starting work largely like, you know, having 675 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,300 fun, and games and likes, you know, filters and snap and 676 00:41:15,300 --> 00:41:18,900 things but it's starting to be and I'm starting to find a 677 00:41:18,900 --> 00:41:22,700 utility and value right? To be a little bit any right? 678 00:41:22,900 --> 00:41:25,200 It does. It's really in it inspires I 679 00:41:25,208 --> 00:41:28,800 think you know we imagine it as somehow I just common pattern. 680 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,000 Should a consumer level that happens where it's like, it's on 681 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,400 the edges. It's like entertainment or it's, 682 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,300 you know, these other things which I for a lot of people it's 683 00:41:36,300 --> 00:41:39,400 like, that's not for me, you know, for item, get it. 684 00:41:41,300 --> 00:41:45,000 Then we start to see it come closer with utility or emotional 685 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,600 connection so yes they see all like all the fun you know. 686 00:41:47,900 --> 00:41:50,700 They still tears on your on Instagram or something and then 687 00:41:51,700 --> 00:41:56,100 I think the other great example is Google like walking 688 00:41:56,100 --> 00:41:59,400 directions, you know the Google directions were you know, you 689 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,700 hold up your phone. You're seeing you know the World 690 00:42:01,700 --> 00:42:04,300 Behind You live through the camera but augmented with you 691 00:42:04,300 --> 00:42:07,700 know, you can turn down this path and things, it's quite a 692 00:42:07,700 --> 00:42:10,600 sophisticated problem to resolve its Cool. 693 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:14,800 I think the ux of these is done my quite elegantly, so that's 694 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,000 great, utility in and of itself. What I find most exciting is 695 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,600 that most people experience something like that where the 696 00:42:20,608 --> 00:42:25,000 first time Then they start to like imagine where except that 697 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,600 there are many other yet unrealized possibilities that 698 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,500 have similar utility, right? Yeah. 699 00:42:31,700 --> 00:42:34,100 This I think we're seeing the same thing happening in the sort 700 00:42:34,100 --> 00:42:37,000 of, you know, cryptocurrency space and other things. 701 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,900 Where once someone has a meaningful engagement with it, 702 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,700 you'll not news headlines, not hype Cycles, not you know, big 703 00:42:43,700 --> 00:42:47,100 numbers are lots of fraud but I'm bored, you know, intimate 704 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:51,800 experience around it where they experience something that is 705 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:53,700 either. Very fun for themselves or it 706 00:42:53,700 --> 00:42:56,400 feels like it has utility and they really see like kind of a 707 00:42:56,408 --> 00:42:59,100 loop and get closed or a transaction happen and how it is 708 00:42:59,100 --> 00:43:03,200 different. They become than quite open to 709 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,000 you. I think imagining and inviting 710 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,300 in the other areas of utility. Yeah, yeah. 711 00:43:08,300 --> 00:43:10,800 I think I think that's, you know, incredibly powerful. 712 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,000 We think about that adoption. So you go through, it's the 713 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,100 novelty and it's on the edge and it's the fun. 714 00:43:15,100 --> 00:43:18,300 It's what other people are doing to then having these ways that 715 00:43:18,300 --> 00:43:22,900 it shows up meaningful. So I can't believe we're We, we 716 00:43:22,900 --> 00:43:25,000 are at the end of our time that we had allotted. 717 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,000 I know, we could sit here and talk forever, but I just 718 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,100 appreciate you coming in. And I want to invite you to be 719 00:43:31,100 --> 00:43:32,900 talked about the future. So I'm sick. 720 00:43:32,900 --> 00:43:36,000 Standing a future invite to you. My friend took for us to get 721 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,700 together for Fireside this time at the end of next year and 722 00:43:39,700 --> 00:43:43,500 we're going to do the same thing and look back and see what is 723 00:43:43,500 --> 00:43:44,900 going to help me. What surprised us? 724 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:51,100 But Randy I appreciate you once again and invite everybody to 725 00:43:51,100 --> 00:43:52,500 join us for our fire. Sighs. 726 00:43:52,500 --> 00:43:57,000 Today we were with award-winning designer entrepreneur. 727 00:43:57,700 --> 00:44:03,200 Technologists, my friend for degree allergist, creator of 728 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:07,100 dynamic Brands. You know, looker into the future 729 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:12,400 Builder creator of opportunities for economic empowerment and 730 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,200 overall humanitarian. Randy. 731 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:17,600 It's been a pleasure. I appreciate your camaraderie 732 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,000 and your Insight and thank you for joining us. 733 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:24,300 Thank you all for joining us. Thank you for having even for 734 00:44:24,300 --> 00:44:24,400 sure.