Over 70 designers, artists, curators Educators students and
researchers representing a wide cross-section of black diasporic
identities, and multi, disciplinary practices
contributed to this book. The Black experience in design,
identity expression and reflection.
Our next guests are three of the sixth editors that contributed
to the book. Please give a spirited aiga
welcome to an H bear. Three Jennifer Ritenour and
Kelly Walters. So the format of this talk,
we're going to have a conversation.
I'll introduce you each one by one and kick off with a
question. And then, we'll just have a
free-for-all organic conversations.
I'm good. Great awesome.
So I'm going to start with an in the middle here and H.
Barry is a writer. A designer associate professor
in the department of Art and Design at Cleveland State
University and president of aiga Cleveland, yay.
Folks in the house. All right, and let's just start
with a bit about the process of this, massive Bush.
Can you tell us a little bit about how this came together.
So first of all, I have to give a shout out to Steven Hiller who
calls this the brick affectionately, but he was
actually played a really helpful role in introducing us to a
publisher. So I just want to mention that.
Yeah, in addition to connecting us with his publisher, he also
served as like a A really great model and as an ally in the
process and the book publishing process.
So I want to mention that first because I think it's really
important. That much of our conversation
today is going to focus on black authorship and black people
publishing their work. But we do want to acknowledge
Steven Hiller and thank him for his support behind the project.
So so so ever the educator, I'm Going to ask everybody in the
audience, to try to think back to 2020 what you were doing and
what you were feeling at that time.
January February, March. It was a scary time.
We were early into the days of the, the covid-19 pandemic.
Pretty sure. Everybody remembers that.
So it was a really it was a scary time.
We didn't have a vaccine yet and so it was I just remember, even
in those early days we didn't know how the virus was
spreading. So it was really scary.
And then on the heels of that heading into spring, summer
2020, we were collectively mourning.
The deaths of Ahmad are burry Brianna Taylor and George Floyd.
And so the I think least, for me, I was, I had a lot of
emotions, frustration, anger, a sense of isolation.
And so I did what I usually do which is to kind of reach out to
people in my community and say now seems like an important time
to respond to do something. So I started talking to Some
friends of mine. I think penny a child Lakers
here in the audience somewhere. She's one of our co-editor.
Yes, Penny. Hey, there she is right up front
but we had a conversation with our mutual friend Tiffany Roman
and about like, yeah, what do we do?
We're in the situation. We feel like we need to respond.
So it was really just a series of informal conversations.
And then I started reaching out to some, of my other design
connections. I had just finished working on a
like, Kelly has a book project that sheep.
Published earlier and so she and Jennifer.
And I knew each other from that project.
So we just started connecting with people.
And we form, what is now, the or became the editorial team of six
editors. So myself, Jennifer Kelly Penny,
Kareem Kali and Leslie and Noel. And we really just started
meeting via zoom and talking and because again it was like a was
a difficult and scary time. I can't overestimate how
important that As as we were feeling our way through this
project. So we would have these Zoom
meetings and just talk and in a way it became least for me a
kind of therapy. You just talked about how we
were feeling, but then we also had this goal of doing something
right responding in some way. The idea that I originally
brought to the table was a special issue Journal that
address the concerns and experiences of black designers.
I never could have predicted that it would turn into the
brick. And I think that that's the
really beautiful thing about collaboration, which is another
piece of the this project that became really really important.
So, I had a kernel of an idea which was like a pretty good
idea but I think it took the collective group to really turn
it into something, beautiful beyond what I ever could have
imagined and it started with those initial conversations and
I think the other important part of the collaboration is that we
were really focused on outcomes. What did we want to achieve?
So I'm just like talking about issues that we were thinking
about what is this thing that we wanted to create?
But we were driven by what we wanted to achieve as opposed to
getting too hung up on what the final thing was going to be.
So again, like I came to the table saying like a special
issue Journal, we're going to talk about these things, but
through the course of conversations, we, I think as a
group agreed that like, that was too limited for what we wanted
to achieve. And we wanted to, I mean, we
wanted to reach a wide audience. We want And to develop something
that was inclusive, where we could connect with creatives,
not even necessarily graphic designers, but creatives who had
interesting things to say. So that was the driving force
like the people that we wanted to include in the audience that
we wanted to reach. So it didn't start out as a
book, didn't start out as a book, but through our
Collective, I think coming together and brainstorming,
that's what it became. So I just also wanted to
emphasize how important And collaboration.
And in this particular case, the collaboration brought a sense of
connectivity that I think we, I needed to survive because from
beginning to end the book happened in a pandemic, right?
So all of those pieces I think are really important in
providing some context. So the other important thing I
want to mention, before I want my friends to weigh in here is
that I when I first came across the late Sylvia Harris's, sa
searching for a black aesthetic and American.
Graphic design. That was my first I guess
touchpoint or connection to another black designer really.
You know, I think about it often.
So for me part of the the foundation of this book became
that essay which is why we reprinted it in the book.
We thought it was important to do that.
And her husband, Gary Singer was kind enough in generous, enough
to give us permission to do that and I want to actually want to
read verbatim. One of the things she says in
the last paragraph, Of the essay because I think it's really
foundational, as I said to what this project became.
So at the end of her essay, she says, these notes are presented
as snapshots and pointers to the research waiting to be
undertaken. It is my hope that American
designers and Scholars, will contribute to this body of
knowledge and support a generation of designers hungry
to see their people and experience reflected in the
mirror of our profession. So that that's what this book
is. Thank you.
I'd like to move on and introduce our second panelist,
Kelly, Walters to my left and to your right is a designer
educator and founder of the multidisciplinary design studio
bright polkadot and in her ongoing design research, she
interrogates the complexities of identity formation systems of
value and the shared vernacular in and around black visual
culture. Kelly is also currently an
assistant professor of communication design at the
Parsons school of design at the new school in New York City.
Kelly. Thank you so much for joining
us. Can you tell us about some of
the core themes that are woven throughout the book?
Yes, I can. Also, this is super surreal.
So I've just like inside and outside at the same time, so I
will definitely answer this question.
But before I do, I just wanted to highlight all of the mentors
that I have ever had black or or other.
Otherwise who've been a huge supporter of me.
I would not be at this point on this stage without any of the
mentorship I've received and continue to receive from my
mentors and colleagues students, everyone and all of you,
everyone who was in the in the book.
So I just wanted to highlight that.
But in terms of the contents of the book, I have my notes here
because we have a lot of content in the book CD, right?
As you can see in the book and I just want to highlight that part
of the way that Approach the kind of structure for the book
was really leaning into the expertise and the interest of
all the editors. So each chapter really is shaped
by those interests based on work that we're currently doing
people that we had connected to at the very outset of the
project. And I also feel as though, when
you look through the book, you'll see overlap, there are
moments that we are connected. You see moments of conflict, you
see moments where, you know, people are actually actively.
Disagreeing. And I really think that's
important in terms of demonstrating the diversity of
ideas by black creatives working today.
And so inside the book the chapters just to kind of
highlight there's essays and interviews and conversations
around design, practice design, education design, scholarship
activism and advocacy and Community engaged design,
afrofuturism Journeys. And design design equals art
does not equal design, and I'll explain that in a And, um,
Collective radical and liberatory spaces and design.
And again, I think our contributors reflect a range of
design practice. So, it wasn't necessarily that
we were engaging all with graphic design, graphic design
practitioners, but we have curators editors Educators.
Researchers artists Architects. Poets healers so many different
ways that people reflect and see themselves throughout the book.
And I think that when I reflect on what this This publication
can do to the design discipline more broadly is that we are
defining for ourselves what we were experiencing how we've
experienced it and really asserting that this is existing
within the discipline at large. And so I think it's really
important that for us that we were taking care of these ideas
that we were taking care of of the information that was being
shared. And you'll see that I think
throughout the book and then also, just speak to kind of the
the way in which I sort of was instrumentalized in the project.
I operated as a creative director and a co-editor and the
two chapters that I worked on our Journeys and design design
equals art does not equal design.
And part of what I was really interested in really thinking
about was the ways in which our Journeys are trajectories are
shaped at school outside of school, the ways in which
something that someone says very short and brief can really
disrupt our understanding of who we are and whether we feel we
can even do design or be in the industry.
And so I think it was important that we capture that and it
really circulates throughout the book and then in terms of design
equals art does not equal design as someone who likes to blur the
spaces between disciplines. I was really interested in
working with contributors who are thinking about how they see
themselves and their practice even staying design, an art,
depending on the environment that you're in can be kind of at
odds with each other. And also, for some folks, there
is no difference. It is one in the same.
And so, I was really interested in how to engage that dialogue
with in that chapter. And then, in terms of the sort
of creative creative direction of the book, I would be remiss
without shouting out Renaldo sont.
Yay. Yes.
He was our book designer. Also was a former student of
mine from the University of Connecticut.
So also shout-out to UConn Huskies because I have to do
that. But like, I also like feel that
it was so important that when we were thinking about the shaping
of this book, how do we play with a set of content that runs
in terms of style? In terms of format?
We have manifestos, we have interviews, we have really
theoretical, deep rich, essays reflective responses.
There were so many different levels to the book and we really
needed to work with a designer that both understood the content
really deeply, but also So was able to think about the type
hierarchy, how could we make it unconventional, new fresh
different and I'm really grateful to Renault for the work
that he has done for this book because we again like his vision
is so much present in the design.
And I also just want to say that I'm excited to really share it
now more broadly in this capacity but I like pass it back
to leave Sean for. Yeah I just wanted to read
together some things and then I'll introduce.
Reduce our third panelist is that it really sounds like you
didn't just create a book, you were really creating a community
or reinforcing a communities, that already exists and ties
that already existed. And I think that helps set up
the introduction to Jennifer on the question, I have for her.
But first Jennifer Ritenour, our third and final panelist is a
writer educator and Communications strategist Who
currently serves as a visiting assistant professor Also at the
Parsons School of Design Jennifer this book has dialogue
in it as Ellie was talking about right with these interviews.
But it's also meant to dialogue with the world's.
And with the way that we teach design the way that we practice
design. So can you tell us about some of
your intended applications, like how educators students and
design professionals can really use this book and put it into
practice? Sure.
I think that you're 100. Isn't right that we built this
based on a sense of community, with one another.
I think it's important that it happened in 2020 when we were
actually very dispersed because our community is very dispersed.
We're often not in the same places Kelly and I actually do
teach at Parsons and that I think is a very diverse
community. That we're not really alone
there, but many black designers design, Educators design
Scholars are working very much, an isolation.
And so, you know, part of the discourse that we're having is
among the six of us among the 70.
Of us. But in this very distributed
way, creating Community across all of the spaces that we're
sort of navigating in isolation and so that felt like a really
important way of sort of reaching out and and inviting
one, another not just to create the artifact of this book
together, but to create more conversations that we're
continuing to build at the book itself, is an invitation, it's
an invitation to continue this work Beyond and I think in part
we do it because we were invited to come together, right?
And so invitation is so critical to how, you know, we just work
with each other. I was thinking about it earlier,
when and Kelly were talking like, how much I love these
women Penny, you know, all of the people who contributed to
this book, I have to believe that there are some other
country. Rick obviously, is one of the
contributors to the book Kalina Cheryl, I'm going to say week
Acosta. Like so many people who are here
or maybe not here right now, but you know who are part of our
Community, but are not altogether.
And so this invitation was to come together in this way.
That felt very connected connected through the ideas and
connected through the process. I was wanted to point out that
when Steven Hiller call this thing a brick.
We were like, how it's a brick, because of its size.
Yes. And that's, and I loved the sort
of thought of this thing, this like heavy object and the color
of it, obviously looks like a brick, but I actually think it
was more than that, that it's a brick because, you know, the
brick is this very carefully. Crafted object of design and it
forms the foundation of shelter and the books actually serves as
a form of shelter for those of us who are making it and for
anyone who is within it. But it also invites others to
take shelter with it and I think it's also important to think of
the brick as sort of an a weapon of activism at times and in a
way or a tool of activism and I think in a way we're thinking
about it that way to that this is an act of activism among all
of us. So I appreciate Steven Hiller
giving us the thought of the brick.
So in more literal terms, there are a number of sections in the
books. First of all design, education
is so critical to how we were thinking about this, the
construction of the content of the book, how we wanted to talk
to Educators, and students about what can be different in our
design pedagogies and institution one thing.
So, so part of this ties into a Jennifer's, talking about, we
talk about this book is the book we wish we had, when you ask
students. So that's that's why the
education piece became so important.
Yeah. And we so we wanted to provide
new content that can exist within a design pedagogy in a
design school, but also to talk about different ways that we're
actually thinking about being taught the ways were thinking
about teaching, as forms of generosity and mentorship.
The way that design education, for many of us was very
self-taught. And so, all the ways that I'm
looking here and Annika, Hansen Azura's work, in fact, just pass
by and in, Her interview, she talks about how she was a
designer before anyone ever saw her as a designer.
And so having to create that label or that Identity or that
set of capacities for ourselves for yourselves because other
people are not necessarily nurturing that in you.
And so seeing and sort of sharing the stories of how many
people found their way to design, even when it wasn't
nurtured in the spaces where they were, you know, nascent
Learners and Mason designers. But in more practical terms In
the back of the book, we actually have a resource for
educators because we wanted to give people tools to engage with
the work and to say, if you don't know how to use this
enormous book of 70 essays because it's just like where do
I start the education piece of the end says, well, here's a
question that you can start out asking and maybe that becomes an
invitation to a new conversation, that you can have
with your students, with your colleagues, with yourself, with
your whomever with your colleagues and so on.
On. And so, we hope that this
becomes a sort of source of curiosity and also an invitation
for more. I'd like to Circle back to the
necessity of this book. I think a lot of us are already
convinced or we already know and other folks are still trying to
think this through. So I'd like to explore, but the
necessity of the book and also the Paradox of the title and
I'll directed at an initially but Kelly and Jennifer please
chime in now that we're in kind of the free-for-all stage of the
interview which I love to encourage.
So and you write in the intro essay about The necessity for
the book. I'm first in, I'll just quote
you to yourself and to the audience.
We must share. We must tell.
We must document. We must remember there's a lot
there. And also can you tell us about
the Paradox of the black? Yeah.
Well so of course the irony is there is no single black
experience and in a way it's sort of tongue-in-cheek because
often times we are talked about or talked to as though there is
one like we as black people are united and God and being and so
part of it is to explore the diversity that exists.
I mean, we don't even necessarily think of black as
being diverse. But that, that's what this book
is about the diversity of black experience in Black Thought, and
black creativity, or whatever you want to call it.
So that that's a key piece of this.
Gosh, there's so much to say about that introductory essay,
kind of takes me, takes me back to 2020 when I first around the
time. That I first wrote it.
I think one of the things that I've been interested in for a
long time, as a designer, is the humanity of black people.
And so, in many ways, for me, that's also like, on a personal
level. That's what this book is about.
Think we're told culturally it often feels, I will say that now
contemporary time in 2022. It often feels as though, black
people again, where talked about and talk to as though we are a
drain on society when the reality is Is that we have been
contributing since we got here? We are part of American culture,
our culture is American culture, and I think part of what we're
trying to do is to for lack of better language, reclaim that
space. Yeah.
And say, not just say that we're doing really great amazing
things but like we have been for a long time, that's part of the
reason why At least for me, you know, as I was thinking through
the introduction, just wanted to emphasize that piece of like,
we're looking at history were reflecting on the present, but
we're also thinking about the future and we have been here the
entire time. The other thing, of course, that
I address in the book is that politically, you know, were
legislators are trying to strip us of our history.
So it's also a response to some of that to say that we'll know
we're not going to go Quietly. I mean, mean we have survived.
We have survived, we're here, we've survived, but we're going
to do as much as we can to preserve this history.
So yeah that's that's kind of where that introduction came
from. So it's that piece it's making
space. But also just acknowledging the
diversity that exists within Blackness.
I mean to I would just add to that like the other sort of
aspect just as you're thinking about and saying like diversity,
is that there are there are many contributors in the book who are
multiracial biracial, are not American that are like looking
at Blackness and African diaspora from such a broad
spectrum. That isn't necessarily even
American Centric history and I think that the the other piece
that I feel is really reflected in this book.
Is that is pushing even Beyond, like, seeing what's happening?
In the US but to also see what's happening more broadly in other
parts of the world. And what Blackness looks like in
that context and for black creatives.
And the other thing that is I'm just reminded of is that and I
think Al credit this to Jennifer because I feel like I'm one of
the conversations we had. We talked about this.
The book is also intergenerational.
Yeah that when you look at the sort of spectrum of folks who
are talking there's so much insight and wisdom from
designers who've Been practicing for so long in various facets
in, even more hostile conditions than anything.
That, you know, I might have been facing today and I think to
hear from them to read and to reprint and publish.
That is so important for for the Contemporary designers who are
practicing right now. And so, from again, like I say,
our elders that are represented in this book, to our students
who are just learning about design.
We Flex that in here, and I'm always really excited, as I flip
through. Like, we have, there's a section
that kind of shows some of the keywords and imagery that
emerging designers, like, in school, or just finishing school
are, are thinking about. And, and I think that's
something that I often don't always see.
It's always sometimes the Starlet and I just really cool,
trendy sort of case study on what is popular.
But I also think what I find to be so So exciting and moving is
that we really transcend so many different spectrums and and
still is not everything. And I think that's the part to
that like, there's just so much still that we haven't even
covered. And so, I don't know, Jennifer,
if you want to highlight anything.
But I mean, there's always more to say I do think the
intergenerational piece is important because giving a voice
or providing or having a platform in which young emerging
designers can share some of The emergent thoughts that they're
having around design and the practices that they're inventing
and not even inventing, I don't even know if that's the right
word. But again, I think the book is a
discourse, you know, it's holding a place for this moment
Sylvia talked about documenting, the importance of documenting,
all of this work that is so rich, and so varied, and so
personal, and so Universal. And I think that the
documentation of this isn't all the perfect things or the most
popular things, or even the most necessarily exciting things.
Like you said, not the trendiest things.
Yes. But just the range of things
that are happening and it required us to go out and look
for the new to sort of figure out.
Not, how do we make a space for our friends, which is not
interesting. But for the people that we
didn't even know, we were like looking for, like, that is
actually the really exciting. Part is the research to find
people who are doing things in other spaces that we might not
encounter, just because they're not all the cover of all the
other things, right? We talked a little bit about the
infrastructure of publishing. Being and one of the challenges
of only being able to be published, once your prominent,
as opposed to have more spaces being available to Young and
emerging designers who were just trying to share what they're
doing. And so I think yes, this
intergenerational piece is acknowledging.
Both people who have moved through into later parts of
their careers but also these like really young and exciting
people who were doing things that we were just like, what are
you doing? That's amazing and that their
stories matter to all of us. There was something else I
wanted to say about that but I'll let it go.
Yeah new books coming. Well, I was well new books
coming. Yeah, but I was just going to
add that, I think. Also there's a vulnerability
with writing. Yeah.
And it was important to us that we capture voices and
perspectives as opposed to finding the best writers and we
didn't want the book to be a collection of like finely
polished words that we had like control over.
So in many ways this is like unvarnished and for me at least
that's what makes it fresh and interesting.
Ting and I don't know, they'll some of the writers are very
lyrical, your scholarly, some you know, are sharing their
syllabi with us, you know, it's such a range of writings and
that's exactly right as editors. We did not want to turn this
into a guidebook, we didn't want to turn it into something that
was, you know, homogenized by us.
It wasn't our voice. It really was like 70 entirely
Unique Individuals who were saying something very unique to
their perspective. And I think that goes back to
that point you all made earlier about not, Having one monolithic
black identity. There isn't like one black Voice
or accent or whatever, right? This allows people to stand
alone as individuals and share their experiences in their own
voices. If you're up for a little
challenge, I feel like this would be helpful for our
audience, but also because you all are Educators and authors
designers a year, also role models for folks out there and
because this book is so personal.
So here's the setup because this is a huge decision, huge
question. So, one minute each because of
the such a huge question, but what is your black Experience in
design thinking about saying this to like somebody who might
be the only one, right? The only black student of their
program or in their Studio like in a few words, like what is
your black experience in design? All right.
Well, I'm going to make mine quick because I'm not a
designer. Okay, okay.
And I'm biracial. And my mother who is my black
parent is not African-American. She's Brazilian and Indigenous
black and Indigenous Brazilian who came to this country and was
baffled by the art by the sort of identification as a black
person in this country that she just didn't have a context for
understanding it. And so my black experience
design is witnessing her journey through.
I think the place that she held in other people's estimation
because of assumptions they made about her and her trying to
constantly push against the very narrow parameters of how people
wanted to see her as a black woman, as a woman, as a maid for
her body, for what you could provide for the service that she
offered others and never for her own self, for all the things
that she brought, and the things that she brought were
tremendous. She was, she was a designer who
never had a design. Capital D design label but she
made things all the time and the only reason she wasn't a
designer is because nobody nurtured that in her because
they could never see that in her because she didn't carry herself
in the way that somebody called a capital D designer might, so
my experience is actually witnessing her and understanding
that there's as a design educator, there is what is
asking? It's not an, I don't know that
it's asking. What is the place that I can
hold to see in somebody else? The capacity that they have even
though somebody else hasn't created the label for it that
suits them, thank you for sharing this so I'll go, yeah.
All right. Yeah, I guess for me, the word
is extremes because there were periods of isolation and feeling
very much like an outsider like early on in my career.
I just didn't have any mentorship or support.
I really didn't know what I was doing and so graduates.
Cool. I'm going to give a shout-out to
my alma. Mater.
Kent State University. Yeah, yes.
Please clap for Kent State. It really changed my career
trajectory because it's through the education but also through
the faculty that I met at that program, really it changed my
entire career trajectory. I mean, it really didn't make an
impact, but I think that was also a turning point where I
started to make broader Connections in the design
industry. So I started out feeling very
Isolated and alone and over time have have found tremendous
support and a huge sense of community.
And certainly you know, we I met a lot of new people through this
book project so that Community has extended.
So I think then the last thing I will add.
So so for my own experience extremes isolation Community but
I think it's because of that experience, that's part of the
reason I became an educator because I want to how to
articulate this quite But I want to make sure that my students
have that sense of community that I didn't have when I was a
student. So it's sort of like, I guess in
my own way, trying to pay it forward.
Thank you. Yeah, yeah.
I feel like, I completely agree with, with that.
I think my experience in design has been.
As I said at the very beginning has been in highly influential
and shaped by the mentors that I've And I, and I think about
that those mentors weren't all black and I think about the fact
that they still gave me guidance and were open to who I was and
really thinking about what I was trying to do even if the content
was black specific, right? And so I think that's really
critical that, you know, in the spaces where you are, the only
one that you have colleagues mentors folks who are are
willing to hear you, listen to what you're saying, and To, you
know, be a space that can still be nurturing.
And, and I think that I feel as though there have been these
moments where it has been isolating.
But I, you know, I think about the fact that like even before
this book project also, plugging my other book black brown and
Latin next design because why not.
But, you know, even in that as a project, it stemmed from an
interest, it wasn't a, you know, I was actively thinking about
making a I was thinking about making a Zine on a much smaller
scale, and I knew that, you know, reaching out to folks,
both that I knew but also didn't know was just a way for me to
extend this community that I knew was here.
But we are all over the place right teaching at all.
Kinds of different institutions. And so, I feel like in a many
ways that book project just demonstrated that there was so
much more to learn, and I think I'm grateful that it, you know,
segwayed into This project because there's so much more
depth that we are able to uncover and do within the
context of the book. And I think my understanding of
design has completely changed. And is constantly changing, as
well. As I meet new people sharing
their own experiences really thinking about how they're
navigating through space, because those experiences are
things that I can also bring back to the classroom or to
other peers or colleagues who might be navigating.
You know, similar things in their own, right?
And so, I feel like, I, I'm really grateful again to the
entire editorial team to the two of you that are sitting up here
with me as well, but I feel like you are, you are making my black
experience and design, you know, and I think that everyone who
I've, you know, had with these is that honestly, thank you so
much for sharing your experiences and just being so
game to jump in on like, almost an impossible question to answer
in the time and this book as you called it, the brick or Steven
Hiller called it the brick. I mean, it's already a big book
but really these experiences could fill libraries United
stadiums and another theme in the book in the last four
minutes you have left. Is this idea of trying to be a
good ancestor to really pay it forward to the future.
So in the time we have left. Like what's next, whether it's
this configuration as this team, this Be your other book projects
or other creative projects you want to talk about?
Well, we will say, so this, this book project actually the book
doubled in size over the course of the project because we kept
finding, you know, they're just so many stories.
So so I can't say, what is next? At least not for me, but I know
that there are so many stories yet that haven't been told like,
we never want to front as though.
This is it, like we've done the work?
The work continues, this is just one part of that.
So, So, yeah, and then and I mean, there are so many
forthcoming books by others, you know, black designers.
People of color that I am excited to see when they come
out so they're like, I expect in the next like, year two years,
but there will be like so many new books that are kind of on
your coffee table and your bookshelf.
So I'm excited and encouraged by that for sure.
I think it's going to be amazing.
Yeah, and I think that, you know, part of the not being
feeling alone, And recognizing that there's a network of
colleagues and allies and Advocates who are both contained
within this book. And you know making new work all
the time is just having more discourse.
I mean I would like to see less gatekeeping in the publishing
infrastructure around design so that more voices can be heard in
you know, sort of all the imperfect ways in which we're
showing up and so I you know I would like to see The Next Step
being more and more and more because this Is not a zero-sum
game where some of us get to publish and therefore other
people don't get to get heard right just more access that
should be the goal for all of us.
Oh, and also, I also would be remiss.
If I didn't shout out AIG a DC who I'm sure is in the room here
because I also feel like that has been another community that
is thinking about all of these things as Educators.
And I know they had their Symposium earlier today and I
just just want to shout out DC folks.
Well, thank you so much for sharing this book with us.
Thank you for making this book because it's a amazing
undertaking for gathering. This community, sharing your own
stories and being a host for the stories of others.
And I hope it inspires you all to dive into this book but also
to find the courage and the creativity to share your stories
and and put them out in the apps.
I took notes on my own wrote notes.
It's a book that really needs to be annotated to keep mine clean
by annotating the pdf version that's why you get multiple
copies. Yes yeah I can get them down in
the bookstore I'm going to plug this so they don't have to book
signing to I think book signing tomorrow as well.
So Kelly Walters and age. Barry Jennifer Ritenour.
Thank you so much for joining hail Ram.
It's a book that really needs to be annotated to keep mine clean
by annotating the pdf version that's why you get multiple
copies. Yes yeah I can get them down in
the bookstore I'm going to plug this so they don't have to book
signing to I think book signing tomorrow as well.
So Kelly Walters and age. Barry Jennifer Ritenour.
Thank you so much for joining hail Ram.