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Over 70 designers, artists, 
curators Educators students and 

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researchers representing a wide 
cross-section of black diasporic

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identities, and multi, 
disciplinary practices 

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contributed to this book. 
The Black experience in design, 

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identity expression and 
reflection. 

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Our next guests are three of the
sixth editors that contributed 

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to the book. 
Please give a spirited aiga 

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welcome to an H bear. 
Three Jennifer Ritenour and 

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Kelly Walters. 
So the format of this talk, 

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we're going to have a 
conversation. 

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I'll introduce you each one by 
one and kick off with a 

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question. 
And then, we'll just have a 

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free-for-all organic 
conversations. 

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I'm good. 
Great awesome. 

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So I'm going to start with an in
the middle here and H. 

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Barry is a writer. 
A designer associate professor 

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in the department of Art and 
Design at Cleveland State 

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University and president of aiga
Cleveland, yay. 

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Folks in the house. 
All right, and let's just start 

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with a bit about the process of 
this, massive Bush. 

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Can you tell us a little bit 
about how this came together. 

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So first of all, I have to give 
a shout out to Steven Hiller who

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calls this the brick 
affectionately, but he was 

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actually played a really helpful
role in introducing us to a 

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publisher. 
So I just want to mention that. 

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Yeah, in addition to connecting 
us with his publisher, he also 

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served as like a A really great 
model and as an ally in the 

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process and the book publishing 
process. 

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So I want to mention that first 
because I think it's really 

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important. 
That much of our conversation 

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today is going to focus on black
authorship and black people 

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publishing their work. 
But we do want to acknowledge 

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Steven Hiller and thank him for 
his support behind the project. 

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So so so ever the educator, I'm 
Going to ask everybody in the 

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audience, to try to think back 
to 2020 what you were doing and 

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what you were feeling at that 
time. 

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January February, March. 
It was a scary time. 

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We were early into the days of 
the, the covid-19 pandemic. 

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Pretty sure. 
Everybody remembers that. 

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So it was a really it was a 
scary time. 

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We didn't have a vaccine yet and
so it was I just remember, even 

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in those early days we didn't 
know how the virus was 

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spreading. 
So it was really scary. 

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And then on the heels of that 
heading into spring, summer 

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2020, we were collectively 
mourning. 

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The deaths of Ahmad are burry 
Brianna Taylor and George Floyd.

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And so the I think least, for 
me, I was, I had a lot of 

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emotions, frustration, anger, a 
sense of isolation. 

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And so I did what I usually do 
which is to kind of reach out to

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people in my community and say 
now seems like an important time

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to respond to do something. 
So I started talking to Some 

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friends of mine. 
I think penny a child Lakers 

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here in the audience somewhere. 
She's one of our co-editor. 

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Yes, Penny. 
Hey, there she is right up front

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but we had a conversation with 
our mutual friend Tiffany Roman 

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and about like, yeah, what do we
do? 

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We're in the situation. 
We feel like we need to respond.

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So it was really just a series 
of informal conversations. 

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And then I started reaching out 
to some, of my other design 

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connections. 
I had just finished working on a

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like, Kelly has a book project 
that sheep. 

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Published earlier and so she and
Jennifer. 

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And I knew each other from that 
project. 

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So we just started connecting 
with people. 

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And we form, what is now, the or
became the editorial team of six

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editors. 
So myself, Jennifer Kelly Penny,

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Kareem Kali and Leslie and Noel.
And we really just started 

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meeting via zoom and talking and
because again it was like a was 

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a difficult and scary time. 
I can't overestimate how 

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important that As as we were 
feeling our way through this 

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project. 
So we would have these Zoom 

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meetings and just talk and in a 
way it became least for me a 

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kind of therapy. 
You just talked about how we 

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were feeling, but then we also 
had this goal of doing something

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right responding in some way. 
The idea that I originally 

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brought to the table was a 
special issue Journal that 

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address the concerns and 
experiences of black designers. 

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I never could have predicted 
that it would turn into the 

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brick. 
And I think that that's the 

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really beautiful thing about 
collaboration, which is another 

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piece of the this project that 
became really really important. 

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So, I had a kernel of an idea 
which was like a pretty good 

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idea but I think it took the 
collective group to really turn 

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it into something, beautiful 
beyond what I ever could have 

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imagined and it started with 
those initial conversations and 

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I think the other important part
of the collaboration is that we 

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were really focused on outcomes.
What did we want to achieve? 

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So I'm just like talking about 
issues that we were thinking 

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about what is this thing that we
wanted to create? 

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But we were driven by what we 
wanted to achieve as opposed to 

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getting too hung up on what the 
final thing was going to be. 

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So again, like I came to the 
table saying like a special 

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issue Journal, we're going to 
talk about these things, but 

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through the course of 
conversations, we, I think as a 

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group agreed that like, that was
too limited for what we wanted 

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to achieve. 
And we wanted to, I mean, we 

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wanted to reach a wide audience.
We want And to develop something

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that was inclusive, where we 
could connect with creatives, 

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not even necessarily graphic 
designers, but creatives who had

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interesting things to say. 
So that was the driving force 

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like the people that we wanted 
to include in the audience that 

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we wanted to reach. 
So it didn't start out as a 

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book, didn't start out as a 
book, but through our 

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Collective, I think coming 
together and brainstorming, 

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that's what it became. 
So I just also wanted to 

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emphasize how important And 
collaboration. 

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And in this particular case, the
collaboration brought a sense of

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connectivity that I think we, I 
needed to survive because from 

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beginning to end the book 
happened in a pandemic, right? 

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So all of those pieces I think 
are really important in 

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providing some context. 
So the other important thing I 

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want to mention, before I want 
my friends to weigh in here is 

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that I when I first came across 
the late Sylvia Harris's, sa 

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searching for a black aesthetic 
and American. 

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Graphic design. 
That was my first I guess 

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touchpoint or connection to 
another black designer really. 

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You know, I think about it 
often. 

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So for me part of the the 
foundation of this book became 

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that essay which is why we 
reprinted it in the book. 

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We thought it was important to 
do that. 

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And her husband, Gary Singer was
kind enough in generous, enough 

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to give us permission to do that
and I want to actually want to 

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read verbatim. 
One of the things she says in 

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the last paragraph, Of the essay
because I think it's really 

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foundational, as I said to what 
this project became. 

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So at the end of her essay, she 
says, these notes are presented 

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as snapshots and pointers to the
research waiting to be 

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undertaken. 
It is my hope that American 

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designers and Scholars, will 
contribute to this body of 

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knowledge and support a 
generation of designers hungry 

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to see their people and 
experience reflected in the 

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mirror of our profession. 
So that that's what this book 

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is. 
Thank you. 

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I'd like to move on and 
introduce our second panelist, 

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Kelly, Walters to my left and to
your right is a designer 

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educator and founder of the 
multidisciplinary design studio 

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bright polkadot and in her 
ongoing design research, she 

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interrogates the complexities of
identity formation systems of 

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value and the shared vernacular 
in and around black visual 

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culture. 
Kelly is also currently an 

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assistant professor of 
communication design at the 

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Parsons school of design at the 
new school in New York City. 

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Kelly. 
Thank you so much for joining 

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us. 
Can you tell us about some of 

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the core themes that are woven 
throughout the book? 

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Yes, I can. 
Also, this is super surreal. 

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So I've just like inside and 
outside at the same time, so I 

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will definitely answer this 
question. 

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But before I do, I just wanted 
to highlight all of the mentors 

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that I have ever had black or or
other. 

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Otherwise who've been a huge 
supporter of me. 

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I would not be at this point on 
this stage without any of the 

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mentorship I've received and 
continue to receive from my 

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mentors and colleagues students,
everyone and all of you, 

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everyone who was in the in the 
book. 

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So I just wanted to highlight 
that. 

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But in terms of the contents of 
the book, I have my notes here 

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because we have a lot of content
in the book CD, right? 

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As you can see in the book and I
just want to highlight that part

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of the way that Approach the 
kind of structure for the book 

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was really leaning into the 
expertise and the interest of 

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all the editors. 
So each chapter really is shaped

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by those interests based on work
that we're currently doing 

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people that we had connected to 
at the very outset of the 

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project. 
And I also feel as though, when 

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you look through the book, 
you'll see overlap, there are 

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moments that we are connected. 
You see moments of conflict, you

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see moments where, you know, 
people are actually actively. 

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Disagreeing. 
And I really think that's 

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important in terms of 
demonstrating the diversity of 

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ideas by black creatives working
today. 

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And so inside the book the 
chapters just to kind of 

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highlight there's essays and 
interviews and conversations 

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around design, practice design, 
education design, scholarship 

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activism and advocacy and 
Community engaged design, 

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afrofuturism Journeys. 
And design design equals art 

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does not equal design, and I'll 
explain that in a And, um, 

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Collective radical and 
liberatory spaces and design. 

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And again, I think our 
contributors reflect a range of 

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design practice. 
So, it wasn't necessarily that 

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we were engaging all with 
graphic design, graphic design 

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practitioners, but we have 
curators editors Educators. 

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Researchers artists Architects. 
Poets healers so many different 

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ways that people reflect and see
themselves throughout the book. 

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And I think that when I reflect 
on what this This publication 

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can do to the design discipline 
more broadly is that we are 

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defining for ourselves what we 
were experiencing how we've 

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experienced it and really 
asserting that this is existing 

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within the discipline at large. 
And so I think it's really 

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important that for us that we 
were taking care of these ideas 

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that we were taking care of of 
the information that was being 

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shared. 
And you'll see that I think 

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throughout the book and then 
also, just speak to kind of the 

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the way in which I sort of was 
instrumentalized in the project.

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I operated as a creative 
director and a co-editor and the

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two chapters that I worked on 
our Journeys and design design 

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equals art does not equal 
design. 

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And part of what I was really 
interested in really thinking 

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about was the ways in which our 
Journeys are trajectories are 

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shaped at school outside of 
school, the ways in which 

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something that someone says very
short and brief can really 

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disrupt our understanding of who
we are and whether we feel we 

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can even do design or be in the 
industry. 

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And so I think it was important 
that we capture that and it 

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really circulates throughout the
book and then in terms of design

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equals art does not equal design
as someone who likes to blur the

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spaces between disciplines. 
I was really interested in 

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working with contributors who 
are thinking about how they see 

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themselves and their practice 
even staying design, an art, 

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depending on the environment 
that you're in can be kind of at

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odds with each other. 
And also, for some folks, there 

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is no difference. 
It is one in the same. 

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And so, I was really interested 
in how to engage that dialogue 

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with in that chapter. 
And then, in terms of the sort 

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of creative creative direction 
of the book, I would be remiss 

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without shouting out Renaldo 
sont. 

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Yay. 
Yes. 

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He was our book designer. 
Also was a former student of 

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mine from the University of 
Connecticut. 

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So also shout-out to UConn 
Huskies because I have to do 

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that. 
But like, I also like feel that 

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it was so important that when we
were thinking about the shaping 

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of this book, how do we play 
with a set of content that runs 

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in terms of style? 
In terms of format? 

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We have manifestos, we have 
interviews, we have really 

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theoretical, deep rich, essays 
reflective responses. 

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There were so many different 
levels to the book and we really

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needed to work with a designer 
that both understood the content

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really deeply, but also So was 
able to think about the type 

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hierarchy, how could we make it 
unconventional, new fresh 

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different and I'm really 
grateful to Renault for the work

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that he has done for this book 
because we again like his vision

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is so much present in the 
design. 

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And I also just want to say that
I'm excited to really share it 

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now more broadly in this 
capacity but I like pass it back

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to leave Sean for. 
Yeah I just wanted to read 

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together some things and then 
I'll introduce. 

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Reduce our third panelist is 
that it really sounds like you 

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didn't just create a book, you 
were really creating a community

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or reinforcing a communities, 
that already exists and ties 

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that already existed. 
And I think that helps set up 

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the introduction to Jennifer on 
the question, I have for her. 

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But first Jennifer Ritenour, our
third and final panelist is a 

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writer educator and 
Communications strategist Who 

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currently serves as a visiting 
assistant professor Also at the 

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Parsons School of Design 
Jennifer this book has dialogue 

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00:14:14,900 --> 00:14:18,400
in it as Ellie was talking about
right with these interviews. 

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But it's also meant to dialogue 
with the world's. 

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And with the way that we teach 
design the way that we practice 

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design. 
So can you tell us about some of

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your intended applications, like
how educators students and 

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design professionals can really 
use this book and put it into 

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practice? 
Sure. 

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I think that you're 100. 
Isn't right that we built this 

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based on a sense of community, 
with one another. 

256
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,700
I think it's important that it 
happened in 2020 when we were 

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actually very dispersed because 
our community is very dispersed.

258
00:14:50,300 --> 00:14:52,800
We're often not in the same 
places Kelly and I actually do 

259
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,800
teach at Parsons and that I 
think is a very diverse 

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community. 
That we're not really alone 

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00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,900
there, but many black designers 
design, Educators design 

262
00:15:01,900 --> 00:15:04,100
Scholars are working very much, 
an isolation. 

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00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,300
And so, you know, part of the 
discourse that we're having is 

264
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among the six of us among the 
70. 

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00:15:09,700 --> 00:15:12,200
Of us. 
But in this very distributed 

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way, creating Community across 
all of the spaces that we're 

267
00:15:15,500 --> 00:15:19,200
sort of navigating in isolation 
and so that felt like a really 

268
00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,200
important way of sort of 
reaching out and and inviting 

269
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,300
one, another not just to create 
the artifact of this book 

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00:15:26,300 --> 00:15:29,800
together, but to create more 
conversations that we're 

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00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:34,200
continuing to build at the book 
itself, is an invitation, it's 

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00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:38,600
an invitation to continue this 
work Beyond and I think in part 

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00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:42,100
we do it because we were invited
to come together, right? 

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00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:45,600
And so invitation is so critical
to how, you know, we just work 

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with each other. 
I was thinking about it earlier,

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00:15:48,100 --> 00:15:50,400
when and Kelly were talking 
like, how much I love these 

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00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,200
women Penny, you know, all of 
the people who contributed to 

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00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,400
this book, I have to believe 
that there are some other 

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00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,500
country. 
Rick obviously, is one of the 

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00:15:58,500 --> 00:16:03,200
contributors to the book Kalina 
Cheryl, I'm going to say week 

281
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,600
Acosta. 
Like so many people who are here

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00:16:06,100 --> 00:16:09,600
or maybe not here right now, but
you know who are part of our 

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00:16:09,700 --> 00:16:12,900
Community, but are not 
altogether. 

284
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,200
And so this invitation was to 
come together in this way. 

285
00:16:16,500 --> 00:16:19,000
That felt very connected 
connected through the ideas and 

286
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,000
connected through the process. 
I was wanted to point out that 

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00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:23,800
when Steven Hiller call this 
thing a brick. 

288
00:16:23,900 --> 00:16:26,100
We were like, how it's a brick, 
because of its size. 

289
00:16:26,100 --> 00:16:28,900
Yes. 
And that's, and I loved the sort

290
00:16:28,900 --> 00:16:32,200
of thought of this thing, this 
like heavy object and the color 

291
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,300
of it, obviously looks like a 
brick, but I actually think it 

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00:16:35,300 --> 00:16:37,900
was more than that, that it's a 
brick because, you know, the 

293
00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:41,600
brick is this very carefully. 
Crafted object of design and it 

294
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,900
forms the foundation of shelter 
and the books actually serves as

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00:16:44,900 --> 00:16:47,900
a form of shelter for those of 
us who are making it and for 

296
00:16:47,900 --> 00:16:51,700
anyone who is within it. 
But it also invites others to 

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00:16:51,700 --> 00:16:55,900
take shelter with it and I think
it's also important to think of 

298
00:16:55,900 --> 00:17:01,200
the brick as sort of an a weapon
of activism at times and in a 

299
00:17:01,208 --> 00:17:05,000
way or a tool of activism and I 
think in a way we're thinking 

300
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,800
about it that way to that this 
is an act of activism among all 

301
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,200
of us. 
So I appreciate Steven Hiller 

302
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:12,700
giving us the thought of the 
brick. 

303
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,200
So in more literal terms, there 
are a number of sections in the 

304
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,000
books. 
First of all design, education 

305
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,200
is so critical to how we were 
thinking about this, the 

306
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,500
construction of the content of 
the book, how we wanted to talk 

307
00:17:24,500 --> 00:17:28,800
to Educators, and students about
what can be different in our 

308
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,600
design pedagogies and 
institution one thing. 

309
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:35,700
So, so part of this ties into a 
Jennifer's, talking about, we 

310
00:17:36,100 --> 00:17:38,700
talk about this book is the book
we wish we had, when you ask 

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00:17:38,700 --> 00:17:41,000
students. 
So that's that's why the 

312
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,000
education piece became so 
important. 

313
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,600
Yeah. 
And we so we wanted to provide 

314
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,700
new content that can exist 
within a design pedagogy in a 

315
00:17:49,708 --> 00:17:52,900
design school, but also to talk 
about different ways that we're 

316
00:17:52,900 --> 00:17:55,700
actually thinking about being 
taught the ways were thinking 

317
00:17:55,700 --> 00:17:58,800
about teaching, as forms of 
generosity and mentorship. 

318
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,000
The way that design education, 
for many of us was very 

319
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,300
self-taught. 
And so, all the ways that I'm 

320
00:18:05,300 --> 00:18:08,600
looking here and Annika, Hansen 
Azura's work, in fact, just pass

321
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,700
by and in, Her interview, she 
talks about how she was a 

322
00:18:11,700 --> 00:18:14,700
designer before anyone ever saw 
her as a designer. 

323
00:18:14,900 --> 00:18:18,300
And so having to create that 
label or that Identity or that 

324
00:18:18,300 --> 00:18:23,000
set of capacities for ourselves 
for yourselves because other 

325
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,700
people are not necessarily 
nurturing that in you. 

326
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,300
And so seeing and sort of 
sharing the stories of how many 

327
00:18:29,300 --> 00:18:31,800
people found their way to 
design, even when it wasn't 

328
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,600
nurtured in the spaces where 
they were, you know, nascent 

329
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:40,000
Learners and Mason designers. 
But in more practical terms In 

330
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,400
the back of the book, we 
actually have a resource for 

331
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:47,200
educators because we wanted to 
give people tools to engage with

332
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,800
the work and to say, if you 
don't know how to use this 

333
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:54,000
enormous book of 70 essays 
because it's just like where do 

334
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:58,100
I start the education piece of 
the end says, well, here's a 

335
00:18:58,100 --> 00:19:02,200
question that you can start out 
asking and maybe that becomes an

336
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,600
invitation to a new 
conversation, that you can have 

337
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,300
with your students, with your 
colleagues, with yourself, with 

338
00:19:07,300 --> 00:19:09,500
your whomever with your 
colleagues and so on. 

339
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,500
On. 
And so, we hope that this 

340
00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:14,800
becomes a sort of source of 
curiosity and also an invitation

341
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:19,300
for more. 
I'd like to Circle back to the 

342
00:19:19,300 --> 00:19:22,600
necessity of this book. 
I think a lot of us are already 

343
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:26,400
convinced or we already know and
other folks are still trying to 

344
00:19:26,408 --> 00:19:29,100
think this through. 
So I'd like to explore, but the 

345
00:19:29,100 --> 00:19:33,200
necessity of the book and also 
the Paradox of the title and 

346
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,900
I'll directed at an initially 
but Kelly and Jennifer please 

347
00:19:37,100 --> 00:19:40,400
chime in now that we're in kind 
of the free-for-all stage of the

348
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,700
interview which I love to 
encourage. 

349
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:47,300
So and you write in the intro 
essay about The necessity for 

350
00:19:47,300 --> 00:19:49,400
the book. 
I'm first in, I'll just quote 

351
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:50,800
you to yourself and to the 
audience. 

352
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,700
We must share. 
We must tell. 

353
00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:58,900
We must document. 
We must remember there's a lot 

354
00:19:58,900 --> 00:20:00,400
there. 
And also can you tell us about 

355
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:01,700
the Paradox of the black? 
Yeah. 

356
00:20:01,708 --> 00:20:04,800
Well so of course the irony is 
there is no single black 

357
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,000
experience and in a way it's 
sort of tongue-in-cheek because 

358
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:13,000
often times we are talked about 
or talked to as though there is 

359
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:18,200
one like we as black people are 
united and God and being and so 

360
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,900
part of it is to explore the 
diversity that exists. 

361
00:20:21,900 --> 00:20:24,100
I mean, we don't even 
necessarily think of black as 

362
00:20:24,100 --> 00:20:26,200
being diverse. 
But that, that's what this book 

363
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:31,300
is about the diversity of black 
experience in Black Thought, and

364
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,200
black creativity, or whatever 
you want to call it. 

365
00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:37,200
So that that's a key piece of 
this. 

366
00:20:37,900 --> 00:20:40,500
Gosh, there's so much to say 
about that introductory essay, 

367
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:46,200
kind of takes me, takes me back 
to 2020 when I first around the 

368
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:47,300
time. 
That I first wrote it. 

369
00:20:47,300 --> 00:20:50,600
I think one of the things that 
I've been interested in for a 

370
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:55,100
long time, as a designer, is the
humanity of black people. 

371
00:20:55,100 --> 00:20:59,600
And so, in many ways, for me, 
that's also like, on a personal 

372
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:01,100
level. 
That's what this book is about. 

373
00:21:01,100 --> 00:21:06,500
Think we're told culturally it 
often feels, I will say that now

374
00:21:06,500 --> 00:21:10,400
contemporary time in 2022. 
It often feels as though, black 

375
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,200
people again, where talked about
and talk to as though we are a 

376
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:17,400
drain on society when the 
reality is Is that we have been 

377
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:22,200
contributing since we got here? 
We are part of American culture,

378
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:26,800
our culture is American culture,
and I think part of what we're 

379
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,300
trying to do is to for lack of 
better language, reclaim that 

380
00:21:30,300 --> 00:21:31,400
space. 
Yeah. 

381
00:21:31,700 --> 00:21:34,800
And say, not just say that we're
doing really great amazing 

382
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:39,800
things but like we have been for
a long time, that's part of the 

383
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:44,400
reason why At least for me, you 
know, as I was thinking through 

384
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:49,300
the introduction, just wanted to
emphasize that piece of like, 

385
00:21:49,300 --> 00:21:53,100
we're looking at history were 
reflecting on the present, but 

386
00:21:53,100 --> 00:21:56,300
we're also thinking about the 
future and we have been here the

387
00:21:56,300 --> 00:21:59,200
entire time. 
The other thing, of course, that

388
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:03,600
I address in the book is that 
politically, you know, were 

389
00:22:03,700 --> 00:22:06,500
legislators are trying to strip 
us of our history. 

390
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,900
So it's also a response to some 
of that to say that we'll know 

391
00:22:10,900 --> 00:22:14,500
we're not going to go Quietly. 
I mean, mean we have survived. 

392
00:22:14,500 --> 00:22:17,900
We have survived, we're here, 
we've survived, but we're going 

393
00:22:17,900 --> 00:22:22,000
to do as much as we can to 
preserve this history. 

394
00:22:22,500 --> 00:22:25,300
So yeah that's that's kind of 
where that introduction came 

395
00:22:25,300 --> 00:22:28,300
from. 
So it's that piece it's making 

396
00:22:28,300 --> 00:22:31,600
space. 
But also just acknowledging the 

397
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,800
diversity that exists within 
Blackness. 

398
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:40,100
I mean to I would just add to 
that like the other sort of 

399
00:22:40,100 --> 00:22:43,200
aspect just as you're thinking 
about and saying like diversity,

400
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,400
is that there are there are many
contributors in the book who are

401
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,700
multiracial biracial, are not 
American that are like looking 

402
00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:55,200
at Blackness and African 
diaspora from such a broad 

403
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:56,800
spectrum. 
That isn't necessarily even 

404
00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,600
American Centric history and I 
think that the the other piece 

405
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,400
that I feel is really reflected 
in this book. 

406
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,600
Is that is pushing even Beyond, 
like, seeing what's happening? 

407
00:23:08,700 --> 00:23:12,900
In the US but to also see what's
happening more broadly in other 

408
00:23:12,900 --> 00:23:15,800
parts of the world. 
And what Blackness looks like in

409
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,400
that context and for black 
creatives. 

410
00:23:18,700 --> 00:23:22,700
And the other thing that is I'm 
just reminded of is that and I 

411
00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:25,400
think Al credit this to Jennifer
because I feel like I'm one of 

412
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,700
the conversations we had. 
We talked about this. 

413
00:23:27,900 --> 00:23:30,200
The book is also 
intergenerational. 

414
00:23:30,300 --> 00:23:34,000
Yeah that when you look at the 
sort of spectrum of folks who 

415
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,700
are talking there's so much 
insight and wisdom from 

416
00:23:37,700 --> 00:23:41,900
designers who've Been practicing
for so long in various facets 

417
00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:45,300
in, even more hostile conditions
than anything. 

418
00:23:45,300 --> 00:23:49,200
That, you know, I might have 
been facing today and I think to

419
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,100
hear from them to read and to 
reprint and publish. 

420
00:23:53,100 --> 00:23:57,800
That is so important for for the
Contemporary designers who are 

421
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,700
practicing right now. 
And so, from again, like I say, 

422
00:24:01,700 --> 00:24:06,100
our elders that are represented 
in this book, to our students 

423
00:24:06,100 --> 00:24:08,400
who are just learning about 
design. 

424
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,200
We Flex that in here, and I'm 
always really excited, as I flip

425
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,000
through. 
Like, we have, there's a section

426
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,600
that kind of shows some of the 
keywords and imagery that 

427
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,700
emerging designers, like, in 
school, or just finishing school

428
00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:25,800
are, are thinking about. 
And, and I think that's 

429
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,900
something that I often don't 
always see. 

430
00:24:27,900 --> 00:24:30,700
It's always sometimes the 
Starlet and I just really cool, 

431
00:24:30,700 --> 00:24:35,300
trendy sort of case study on 
what is popular. 

432
00:24:35,300 --> 00:24:40,500
But I also think what I find to 
be so So exciting and moving is 

433
00:24:40,500 --> 00:24:45,300
that we really transcend so many
different spectrums and and 

434
00:24:45,300 --> 00:24:49,000
still is not everything. 
And I think that's the part to 

435
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:53,400
that like, there's just so much 
still that we haven't even 

436
00:24:53,500 --> 00:24:55,000
covered. 
And so, I don't know, Jennifer, 

437
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,900
if you want to highlight 
anything. 

438
00:24:56,900 --> 00:24:59,300
But I mean, there's always more 
to say I do think the 

439
00:24:59,300 --> 00:25:03,000
intergenerational piece is 
important because giving a voice

440
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,600
or providing or having a 
platform in which young emerging

441
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,900
designers can share some of The 
emergent thoughts that they're 

442
00:25:09,900 --> 00:25:13,100
having around design and the 
practices that they're inventing

443
00:25:13,100 --> 00:25:15,300
and not even inventing, I don't 
even know if that's the right 

444
00:25:15,300 --> 00:25:17,000
word. 
But again, I think the book is a

445
00:25:17,008 --> 00:25:20,400
discourse, you know, it's 
holding a place for this moment 

446
00:25:20,500 --> 00:25:24,200
Sylvia talked about documenting,
the importance of documenting, 

447
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,300
all of this work that is so 
rich, and so varied, and so 

448
00:25:27,300 --> 00:25:30,400
personal, and so Universal. 
And I think that the 

449
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,500
documentation of this isn't all 
the perfect things or the most 

450
00:25:33,500 --> 00:25:36,900
popular things, or even the most
necessarily exciting things. 

451
00:25:36,900 --> 00:25:38,500
Like you said, not the trendiest
things. 

452
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,100
Yes. 
But just the range of things 

453
00:25:40,100 --> 00:25:42,600
that are happening and it 
required us to go out and look 

454
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,600
for the new to sort of figure 
out. 

455
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,900
Not, how do we make a space for 
our friends, which is not 

456
00:25:47,900 --> 00:25:50,100
interesting. 
But for the people that we 

457
00:25:50,100 --> 00:25:54,100
didn't even know, we were like 
looking for, like, that is 

458
00:25:54,100 --> 00:25:57,000
actually the really exciting. 
Part is the research to find 

459
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,500
people who are doing things in 
other spaces that we might not 

460
00:26:00,500 --> 00:26:04,100
encounter, just because they're 
not all the cover of all the 

461
00:26:04,100 --> 00:26:07,300
other things, right? 
We talked a little bit about the

462
00:26:07,300 --> 00:26:10,100
infrastructure of publishing. 
Being and one of the challenges 

463
00:26:10,100 --> 00:26:13,000
of only being able to be 
published, once your prominent, 

464
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,200
as opposed to have more spaces 
being available to Young and 

465
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,200
emerging designers who were just
trying to share what they're 

466
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,100
doing. 
And so I think yes, this 

467
00:26:21,100 --> 00:26:23,200
intergenerational piece is 
acknowledging. 

468
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,500
Both people who have moved 
through into later parts of 

469
00:26:26,508 --> 00:26:29,600
their careers but also these 
like really young and exciting 

470
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,800
people who were doing things 
that we were just like, what are

471
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:33,700
you doing? 
That's amazing and that their 

472
00:26:33,700 --> 00:26:36,500
stories matter to all of us. 
There was something else I 

473
00:26:36,508 --> 00:26:38,200
wanted to say about that but 
I'll let it go. 

474
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,300
Yeah new books coming. 
Well, I was well new books 

475
00:26:41,300 --> 00:26:42,500
coming. 
Yeah, but I was just going to 

476
00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:45,100
add that, I think. 
Also there's a vulnerability 

477
00:26:45,100 --> 00:26:46,300
with writing. 
Yeah. 

478
00:26:46,500 --> 00:26:50,900
And it was important to us that 
we capture voices and 

479
00:26:50,900 --> 00:26:54,900
perspectives as opposed to 
finding the best writers and we 

480
00:26:54,900 --> 00:26:58,500
didn't want the book to be a 
collection of like finely 

481
00:26:58,500 --> 00:27:02,500
polished words that we had like 
control over. 

482
00:27:02,700 --> 00:27:06,600
So in many ways this is like 
unvarnished and for me at least 

483
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,400
that's what makes it fresh and 
interesting. 

484
00:27:08,500 --> 00:27:11,500
Ting and I don't know, they'll 
some of the writers are very 

485
00:27:11,500 --> 00:27:15,700
lyrical, your scholarly, some 
you know, are sharing their 

486
00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:18,700
syllabi with us, you know, it's 
such a range of writings and 

487
00:27:18,700 --> 00:27:22,300
that's exactly right as editors.
We did not want to turn this 

488
00:27:22,300 --> 00:27:24,900
into a guidebook, we didn't want
to turn it into something that 

489
00:27:24,900 --> 00:27:27,200
was, you know, homogenized by 
us. 

490
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,400
It wasn't our voice. 
It really was like 70 entirely 

491
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,100
Unique Individuals who were 
saying something very unique to 

492
00:27:33,100 --> 00:27:35,500
their perspective. 
And I think that goes back to 

493
00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:40,400
that point you all made earlier 
about not, Having one monolithic

494
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,600
black identity. 
There isn't like one black Voice

495
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,900
or accent or whatever, right? 
This allows people to stand 

496
00:27:45,900 --> 00:27:48,800
alone as individuals and share 
their experiences in their own 

497
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:50,800
voices. 
If you're up for a little 

498
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,800
challenge, I feel like this 
would be helpful for our 

499
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,700
audience, but also because you 
all are Educators and authors 

500
00:27:56,700 --> 00:27:59,400
designers a year, also role 
models for folks out there and 

501
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:00,700
because this book is so 
personal. 

502
00:28:00,700 --> 00:28:03,900
So here's the setup because this
is a huge decision, huge 

503
00:28:03,900 --> 00:28:06,100
question. 
So, one minute each because of 

504
00:28:06,100 --> 00:28:09,700
the such a huge question, but 
what is your black Experience in

505
00:28:09,700 --> 00:28:12,500
design thinking about saying 
this to like somebody who might 

506
00:28:12,500 --> 00:28:15,200
be the only one, right? 
The only black student of their 

507
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:19,700
program or in their Studio like 
in a few words, like what is 

508
00:28:19,700 --> 00:28:23,300
your black experience in design?
All right. 

509
00:28:23,300 --> 00:28:25,100
Well, I'm going to make mine 
quick because I'm not a 

510
00:28:25,108 --> 00:28:26,500
designer. 
Okay, okay. 

511
00:28:26,500 --> 00:28:29,600
And I'm biracial. 
And my mother who is my black 

512
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:34,600
parent is not African-American. 
She's Brazilian and Indigenous 

513
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,500
black and Indigenous Brazilian 
who came to this country and was

514
00:28:38,500 --> 00:28:42,100
baffled by the art by the sort 
of identification as a black 

515
00:28:42,100 --> 00:28:45,100
person in this country that she 
just didn't have a context for 

516
00:28:45,100 --> 00:28:47,700
understanding it. 
And so my black experience 

517
00:28:47,700 --> 00:28:52,000
design is witnessing her journey
through. 

518
00:28:52,100 --> 00:28:55,200
I think the place that she held 
in other people's estimation 

519
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,800
because of assumptions they made
about her and her trying to 

520
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,700
constantly push against the very
narrow parameters of how people 

521
00:29:03,700 --> 00:29:08,300
wanted to see her as a black 
woman, as a woman, as a maid for

522
00:29:08,300 --> 00:29:11,300
her body, for what you could 
provide for the service that she

523
00:29:11,300 --> 00:29:14,800
offered others and never for her
own self, for all the things 

524
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,300
that she brought, and the things
that she brought were 

525
00:29:17,300 --> 00:29:20,300
tremendous. 
She was, she was a designer who 

526
00:29:20,300 --> 00:29:25,100
never had a design. 
Capital D design label but she 

527
00:29:25,100 --> 00:29:27,600
made things all the time and the
only reason she wasn't a 

528
00:29:27,608 --> 00:29:30,700
designer is because nobody 
nurtured that in her because 

529
00:29:30,700 --> 00:29:34,300
they could never see that in her
because she didn't carry herself

530
00:29:34,300 --> 00:29:38,000
in the way that somebody called 
a capital D designer might, so 

531
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,100
my experience is actually 
witnessing her and understanding

532
00:29:42,100 --> 00:29:46,200
that there's as a design 
educator, there is what is 

533
00:29:46,500 --> 00:29:48,700
asking? 
It's not an, I don't know that 

534
00:29:48,700 --> 00:29:50,400
it's asking. 
What is the place that I can 

535
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,900
hold to see in somebody else? 
The capacity that they have even

536
00:29:53,900 --> 00:29:56,400
though somebody else hasn't 
created the label for it that 

537
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,500
suits them, thank you for 
sharing this so I'll go, yeah. 

538
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:08,200
All right. 
Yeah, I guess for me, the word 

539
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:13,200
is extremes because there were 
periods of isolation and feeling

540
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,500
very much like an outsider like 
early on in my career. 

541
00:30:16,900 --> 00:30:18,800
I just didn't have any 
mentorship or support. 

542
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,000
I really didn't know what I was 
doing and so graduates. 

543
00:30:22,100 --> 00:30:23,400
Cool. 
I'm going to give a shout-out to

544
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:24,100
my alma. 
Mater. 

545
00:30:24,100 --> 00:30:28,400
Kent State University. 
Yeah, yes. 

546
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,300
Please clap for Kent State. 
It really changed my career 

547
00:30:32,300 --> 00:30:36,400
trajectory because it's through 
the education but also through 

548
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,000
the faculty that I met at that 
program, really it changed my 

549
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,500
entire career trajectory. 
I mean, it really didn't make an

550
00:30:42,500 --> 00:30:46,100
impact, but I think that was 
also a turning point where I 

551
00:30:46,108 --> 00:30:48,900
started to make broader 
Connections in the design 

552
00:30:48,900 --> 00:30:52,000
industry. 
So I started out feeling very 

553
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:57,000
Isolated and alone and over time
have have found tremendous 

554
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,000
support and a huge sense of 
community. 

555
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,900
And certainly you know, we I met
a lot of new people through this

556
00:31:02,900 --> 00:31:07,000
book project so that Community 
has extended. 

557
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,500
So I think then the last thing I
will add. 

558
00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:13,800
So so for my own experience 
extremes isolation Community but

559
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,200
I think it's because of that 
experience, that's part of the 

560
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:21,000
reason I became an educator 
because I want to how to 

561
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,100
articulate this quite But I want
to make sure that my students 

562
00:31:24,100 --> 00:31:26,500
have that sense of community 
that I didn't have when I was a 

563
00:31:26,508 --> 00:31:28,800
student. 
So it's sort of like, I guess in

564
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:30,600
my own way, trying to pay it 
forward. 

565
00:31:31,300 --> 00:31:38,900
Thank you. 
Yeah, yeah. 

566
00:31:38,900 --> 00:31:41,500
I feel like, I completely agree 
with, with that. 

567
00:31:41,500 --> 00:31:45,700
I think my experience in design 
has been. 

568
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,700
As I said at the very beginning 
has been in highly influential 

569
00:31:49,700 --> 00:31:54,300
and shaped by the mentors that 
I've And I, and I think about 

570
00:31:54,300 --> 00:31:58,500
that those mentors weren't all 
black and I think about the fact

571
00:31:58,500 --> 00:32:03,600
that they still gave me guidance
and were open to who I was and 

572
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,500
really thinking about what I was
trying to do even if the content

573
00:32:07,500 --> 00:32:10,700
was black specific, right? 
And so I think that's really 

574
00:32:10,700 --> 00:32:14,700
critical that, you know, in the 
spaces where you are, the only 

575
00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:18,800
one that you have colleagues 
mentors folks who are are 

576
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,900
willing to hear you, listen to 
what you're saying, and To, you 

577
00:32:22,908 --> 00:32:25,700
know, be a space that can still 
be nurturing. 

578
00:32:25,700 --> 00:32:30,200
And, and I think that I feel as 
though there have been these 

579
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,800
moments where it has been 
isolating. 

580
00:32:33,100 --> 00:32:36,200
But I, you know, I think about 
the fact that like even before 

581
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,200
this book project also, plugging
my other book black brown and 

582
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,900
Latin next design because why 
not. 

583
00:32:42,700 --> 00:32:47,500
But, you know, even in that as a
project, it stemmed from an 

584
00:32:47,500 --> 00:32:51,300
interest, it wasn't a, you know,
I was actively thinking about 

585
00:32:51,300 --> 00:32:55,500
making a I was thinking about 
making a Zine on a much smaller 

586
00:32:55,500 --> 00:32:58,900
scale, and I knew that, you 
know, reaching out to folks, 

587
00:32:58,900 --> 00:33:03,500
both that I knew but also didn't
know was just a way for me to 

588
00:33:03,500 --> 00:33:06,700
extend this community that I 
knew was here. 

589
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,500
But we are all over the place 
right teaching at all. 

590
00:33:09,500 --> 00:33:13,300
Kinds of different institutions.
And so, I feel like in a many 

591
00:33:13,300 --> 00:33:17,600
ways that book project just 
demonstrated that there was so 

592
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,800
much more to learn, and I think 
I'm grateful that it, you know, 

593
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:25,000
segwayed into This project 
because there's so much more 

594
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,500
depth that we are able to 
uncover and do within the 

595
00:33:28,500 --> 00:33:32,700
context of the book. 
And I think my understanding of 

596
00:33:32,700 --> 00:33:36,800
design has completely changed. 
And is constantly changing, as 

597
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,400
well. 
As I meet new people sharing 

598
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,300
their own experiences really 
thinking about how they're 

599
00:33:43,300 --> 00:33:46,700
navigating through space, 
because those experiences are 

600
00:33:46,700 --> 00:33:49,100
things that I can also bring 
back to the classroom or to 

601
00:33:49,100 --> 00:33:51,900
other peers or colleagues who 
might be navigating. 

602
00:33:52,300 --> 00:33:54,300
You know, similar things in 
their own, right? 

603
00:33:54,300 --> 00:33:59,400
And so, I feel like, I, I'm 
really grateful again to the 

604
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,000
entire editorial team to the two
of you that are sitting up here 

605
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,500
with me as well, but I feel like
you are, you are making my black

606
00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:10,900
experience and design, you know,
and I think that everyone who 

607
00:34:10,900 --> 00:34:19,100
I've, you know, had with these 
is that honestly, thank you so 

608
00:34:19,100 --> 00:34:22,600
much for sharing your 
experiences and just being so 

609
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,600
game to jump in on like, almost 
an impossible question to answer

610
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,500
in the time and this book as you
called it, the brick or Steven 

611
00:34:29,500 --> 00:34:32,000
Hiller called it the brick. 
I mean, it's already a big book 

612
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,699
but really these experiences 
could fill libraries United 

613
00:34:35,699 --> 00:34:40,400
stadiums and another theme in 
the book in the last four 

614
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,400
minutes you have left. 
Is this idea of trying to be a 

615
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,000
good ancestor to really pay it 
forward to the future. 

616
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,900
So in the time we have left. 
Like what's next, whether it's 

617
00:34:49,900 --> 00:34:53,800
this configuration as this team,
this Be your other book projects

618
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:55,900
or other creative projects you 
want to talk about? 

619
00:34:55,900 --> 00:34:59,600
Well, we will say, so this, this
book project actually the book 

620
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,400
doubled in size over the course 
of the project because we kept 

621
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,400
finding, you know, they're just 
so many stories. 

622
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,900
So so I can't say, what is next?
At least not for me, but I know 

623
00:35:09,900 --> 00:35:14,100
that there are so many stories 
yet that haven't been told like,

624
00:35:14,100 --> 00:35:16,000
we never want to front as 
though. 

625
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,300
This is it, like we've done the 
work? 

626
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,600
The work continues, this is just
one part of that. 

627
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,700
So, So, yeah, and then and I 
mean, there are so many 

628
00:35:25,700 --> 00:35:29,700
forthcoming books by others, you
know, black designers. 

629
00:35:29,700 --> 00:35:32,700
People of color that I am 
excited to see when they come 

630
00:35:32,700 --> 00:35:37,100
out so they're like, I expect in
the next like, year two years, 

631
00:35:37,100 --> 00:35:40,500
but there will be like so many 
new books that are kind of on 

632
00:35:40,500 --> 00:35:42,900
your coffee table and your 
bookshelf. 

633
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,300
So I'm excited and encouraged by
that for sure. 

634
00:35:46,300 --> 00:35:48,000
I think it's going to be 
amazing. 

635
00:35:48,100 --> 00:35:51,200
Yeah, and I think that, you 
know, part of the not being 

636
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:55,000
feeling alone, And recognizing 
that there's a network of 

637
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:59,800
colleagues and allies and 
Advocates who are both contained

638
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,600
within this book. 
And you know making new work all

639
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,500
the time is just having more 
discourse. 

640
00:36:05,500 --> 00:36:09,600
I mean I would like to see less 
gatekeeping in the publishing 

641
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,200
infrastructure around design so 
that more voices can be heard in

642
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,800
you know, sort of all the 
imperfect ways in which we're 

643
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,600
showing up and so I you know I 
would like to see The Next Step 

644
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,800
being more and more and more 
because this Is not a zero-sum 

645
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,400
game where some of us get to 
publish and therefore other 

646
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,400
people don't get to get heard 
right just more access that 

647
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:30,800
should be the goal for all of 
us. 

648
00:36:31,100 --> 00:36:33,700
Oh, and also, I also would be 
remiss. 

649
00:36:33,700 --> 00:36:38,500
If I didn't shout out AIG a DC 
who I'm sure is in the room here

650
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,400
because I also feel like that 
has been another community that 

651
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,100
is thinking about all of these 
things as Educators. 

652
00:36:48,100 --> 00:36:51,200
And I know they had their 
Symposium earlier today and I 

653
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,000
just just want to shout out DC 
folks. 

654
00:36:56,300 --> 00:36:59,600
Well, thank you so much for 
sharing this book with us. 

655
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,100
Thank you for making this book 
because it's a amazing 

656
00:37:03,100 --> 00:37:07,100
undertaking for gathering. 
This community, sharing your own

657
00:37:07,100 --> 00:37:11,100
stories and being a host for the
stories of others. 

658
00:37:11,100 --> 00:37:15,400
And I hope it inspires you all 
to dive into this book but also 

659
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,300
to find the courage and the 
creativity to share your stories

660
00:37:19,300 --> 00:37:20,700
and and put them out in the 
apps. 

661
00:37:20,700 --> 00:37:24,500
I took notes on my own wrote 
notes. 

662
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,500
It's a book that really needs to
be annotated to keep mine clean 

663
00:37:29,500 --> 00:37:32,500
by annotating the pdf version 
that's why you get multiple 

664
00:37:32,500 --> 00:37:35,700
copies. 
Yes yeah I can get them down in 

665
00:37:35,700 --> 00:37:38,700
the bookstore I'm going to plug 
this so they don't have to book 

666
00:37:38,700 --> 00:37:41,600
signing to I think book signing 
tomorrow as well. 

667
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,500
So Kelly Walters and age. 
Barry Jennifer Ritenour. 

668
00:37:44,500 --> 00:37:46,300
Thank you so much for joining 
hail Ram. 

669
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,500
It's a book that really needs to
be annotated to keep mine clean 

670
00:37:29,500 --> 00:37:32,500
by annotating the pdf version 
that's why you get multiple 

671
00:37:32,500 --> 00:37:35,700
copies. 
Yes yeah I can get them down in 

672
00:37:35,700 --> 00:37:38,700
the bookstore I'm going to plug 
this so they don't have to book 

673
00:37:38,700 --> 00:37:41,600
signing to I think book signing 
tomorrow as well. 

674
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,500
So Kelly Walters and age. 
Barry Jennifer Ritenour. 

675
00:37:44,500 --> 00:37:46,300
Thank you so much for joining 
hail Ram.