1 00:00:00,100 --> 00:00:03,300 My idol and older, brother. Brad said at my 70th birthday 2 00:00:03,300 --> 00:00:06,300 celebration that when we were growing up, he thought that I 3 00:00:06,308 --> 00:00:10,300 would never amount to much because I'm assuming Chivas, he 4 00:00:10,300 --> 00:00:13,000 was right? I didn't amount to much, I'm not 5 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,600 add too much more than much, much more men. 6 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,100 Working hard to strive for design Excellence. 7 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,200 If you love these and you should work hard to find the best 8 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,700 solution to a problem, you should do the proper research 9 00:00:24,700 --> 00:00:26,900 and learn as much about the product as you can. 10 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,900 You should have fun doing it. You must also sell your work. 11 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,400 However, over the years, I realized that that was my 12 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,700 brother's perception of me. It didnít find me. 13 00:00:37,100 --> 00:00:40,500 I have always listened to my intuition and my intuition. 14 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,000 I called my spirituality. So, what about your 15 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,700 spirituality? Listen to your instincts. 16 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,900 Don't ignore your gut feeling, it is intangible. 17 00:00:49,900 --> 00:00:52,300 But if you close your eyes and listen, it can speak to you. 18 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:56,100 It might say I will help you. I will lead you and protect. 19 00:00:56,100 --> 00:01:02,800 You trust me? Hello, and welcome to designer. 20 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,500 Jason the podcast that talks about the Nexus of design both 21 00:01:06,500 --> 00:01:10,400 today. And tomorrow, I'm your host PDF 22 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:16,600 Johnson and today, our guest is truly special and I quote, no 23 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,800 one can suppress Archie. Boston, the title of the 24 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:25,900 exhibition about his work. Artie is a nationally known art 25 00:01:25,900 --> 00:01:32,400 director filmmaker designer. Aw, Author business owner, and 26 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:34,800 educator. He was chair of the graphic 27 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,700 design program at Cal State, Long Beach, for 12 terms, and 28 00:01:38,700 --> 00:01:43,500 named outstanding professor of the year in 2004 he is operated. 29 00:01:43,500 --> 00:01:45,300 His design Consulting for Archie. 30 00:01:45,300 --> 00:01:47,800 Boston graphic design since 1972. 31 00:01:48,900 --> 00:01:52,900 He is the recipient of numerous Awards, most notably. 32 00:01:53,100 --> 00:01:55,800 He was the first African-American recipient of 33 00:01:55,800 --> 00:02:00,300 our aiga fellows award for the Los Angeles chapter in 2007. 34 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:02,800 But fellow award recognizes individuals who have made a 35 00:02:02,808 --> 00:02:05,800 significant contribution to raise the standards of 36 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,199 excellence in practice and conduct within their region. 37 00:02:09,900 --> 00:02:12,400 It didn't stop. There, the region last year, we 38 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,800 were incredibly proud to name Marty the recipient of the AIG a 39 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:21,100 medal for expanding. He's recognized for its 40 00:02:21,100 --> 00:02:23,200 long-standing commitment to its students. 41 00:02:23,300 --> 00:02:27,300 As an educator, a mentor and a profound and provocative 42 00:02:27,300 --> 00:02:31,700 influence on the community of Los Angeles, as well as a bold 43 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:37,100 funny Clinic designer with a lifetime body of work Archie and 44 00:02:37,100 --> 00:02:39,900 his brother David were the crater force that established 45 00:02:39,900 --> 00:02:43,400 the 2016 documentary black Pioneers the sunshine City. 46 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,900 He's also interviewed for his coaster that were featured in a 47 00:02:46,908 --> 00:02:51,700 documentary in the Real Mad Men of advertising of the 1960s, 48 00:02:51,900 --> 00:02:55,100 which is now a part of the Smithsonian Museum, as one of 49 00:02:55,100 --> 00:02:59,000 the few graphic designers of his error in California. 50 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,800 He is impacted through inspiration and bulwark 51 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:08,600 generations of designers as an educator writer and designer. 52 00:03:09,100 --> 00:03:12,800 Once again, no one can suppress Archie Boston. 53 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,200 Alrighty, welcome to the podcast. 54 00:03:15,300 --> 00:03:19,300 Okay, thank you Vinnie. It's truly an honor to Have the 55 00:03:19,300 --> 00:03:21,300 chance to spend time talking with you. 56 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,500 I remember when we were going through and sharing with you 57 00:03:24,500 --> 00:03:27,600 that you would won the medal award just the way we're able to 58 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,600 connect in the talk about your experience in your journey. 59 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,300 I'd like to talk about your journey instead of starting at 60 00:03:34,300 --> 00:03:36,300 the beginning. I want to start an appointed 61 00:03:36,300 --> 00:03:40,900 time of only a month ago so you wake up in the morning in London 62 00:03:40,900 --> 00:03:45,700 and you're on your way to the world College of Art to receive 63 00:03:45,700 --> 00:03:49,100 a doctorate and recognition. Tell me a bit about About that 64 00:03:49,100 --> 00:03:53,800 feeling when I arrived there, I was with my wife. 65 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:59,000 So I really was puzzled because I hadn't been there in 20 years, 66 00:03:59,100 --> 00:04:00,300 right? Looked around. 67 00:04:00,300 --> 00:04:04,200 And I saw that my phone didn't work, and I didn't have what I 68 00:04:04,208 --> 00:04:08,300 just found out about WhatsApp. So I was really confused, but we 69 00:04:08,300 --> 00:04:11,100 got to the hotel, we enjoyed the hotel. 70 00:04:11,100 --> 00:04:15,500 It was called Indigo. Le it was in Kensington and we 71 00:04:15,500 --> 00:04:20,000 enjoyed ourselves and we had a day to relax and Then on Monday, 72 00:04:20,399 --> 00:04:24,500 we went to the university met everybody and it was really 73 00:04:24,500 --> 00:04:26,900 fantastic. They treated us like royalty 74 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,700 when we came in. They were so receptive. 75 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,800 My wife was so impressed. She was wondering what's going 76 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,000 to happen to me when I get there and I say, they'll take care of 77 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,500 you and she said, aren't you going to turn your cell phone 78 00:04:38,500 --> 00:04:40,600 on? I said, no, I can't do that. 79 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,100 I have to talk to these people and socialize. 80 00:04:43,100 --> 00:04:47,600 So she was so worried about it and then the group from Apple 81 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,600 came over. And they were there and the 82 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,000 director sort of hooked up with my wife Elise. 83 00:04:54,100 --> 00:04:57,500 So she had a companion and the university took care of her too. 84 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,900 So I went and met the director, which was the chancellor. 85 00:05:02,100 --> 00:05:05,500 His name is mr. Thompson, I met him and then I 86 00:05:05,500 --> 00:05:09,200 meant quite a few other people. They had a show that was going 87 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,500 on and we were trying to prepare. 88 00:05:11,500 --> 00:05:14,300 And that was a luncheon before the exhibition. 89 00:05:14,700 --> 00:05:18,100 So it was a sit-down launching. The president of the University 90 00:05:18,100 --> 00:05:21,800 was there. Search Chancellor IV. 91 00:05:21,900 --> 00:05:26,000 I think his name is oh boy, his name is Ivy. 92 00:05:26,900 --> 00:05:30,000 See, that's what happens when you 79 years old. 93 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,300 You forget things, but he was really fantastic. 94 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,800 I enjoy his name is Sir. John ID, we talked. 95 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,600 And I finally went over and saw the work of the students, which 96 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,000 was incredible. There are so talented, I really 97 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:48,300 had no idea and then I met the people that recommended me her 98 00:05:48,300 --> 00:05:49,900 name. Is Tracy Waller. 99 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:54,000 And she told me that she has suggested she was looking to try 100 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,800 to find some information, and she saw my name in some work and 101 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:02,400 design week, and she suggested to the Senate and the council my 102 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,500 name, and they voted on it and they selected me. 103 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,400 And I was shocked because I thought, oh, they sent a letter 104 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,700 to me and December. And they told me about the honor 105 00:06:13,100 --> 00:06:16,300 and I thought, I don't believe that they know me. 106 00:06:16,300 --> 00:06:19,800 I'm here in the United States and their and Across the pond. 107 00:06:20,100 --> 00:06:23,700 But after I confirmed it by asking them to send that email 108 00:06:23,700 --> 00:06:28,700 to another email, like this is so they sent the email, then I 109 00:06:28,700 --> 00:06:32,000 found out that it wasn't spam. So I said, oh, this is 110 00:06:32,300 --> 00:06:36,600 unbelievable. Me a black man in America being 111 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:40,500 offered an honorary doctorate. I don't, this doesn't happen to 112 00:06:40,500 --> 00:06:44,400 graphic designers, that I know, only a few maybe Paul ran 113 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:48,600 somebody of that stature but not me, but it happened. 114 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,400 I was so excited. Then I started thinking oh am I 115 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:56,500 going to go over them with covid but I have all time already 116 00:06:56,500 --> 00:07:00,300 there so I made the decision but between January and June. 117 00:07:00,300 --> 00:07:04,900 I was thinking oh I hope it lines up but it didn't and I 118 00:07:04,900 --> 00:07:06,800 just decided, am I going to do it? 119 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,500 I am I not. I decided I will do it and I 120 00:07:09,500 --> 00:07:11,400 made the trip. It was fantastic. 121 00:07:11,700 --> 00:07:15,500 They were so accommodating. I spoke at the convocation for 122 00:07:15,500 --> 00:07:18,300 the seniors it's on YouTube. I think. 123 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,900 And it was really wonderful and everybody enjoyed the speech 124 00:07:21,900 --> 00:07:25,500 that I made. Well we're so glad you did and 125 00:07:25,700 --> 00:07:29,700 you received an honorary doctorate or your contributions 126 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:35,100 to Art culture and Industry. And I say it in that order will 127 00:07:35,100 --> 00:07:39,100 be think about art the creative class the culture wish you break 128 00:07:39,100 --> 00:07:42,000 an industry that your role has been so prominent. 129 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,500 Now let's take you back to working with your brother when 130 00:07:45,500 --> 00:07:48,300 you first start at Boston. And Boston, Rob, did you ever 131 00:07:48,300 --> 00:07:50,200 imagine? Ajan, it should be sitting in 132 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:54,300 London being recognized for your contributions, for our culture 133 00:07:54,300 --> 00:07:56,700 and Industry. Never never. 134 00:07:57,100 --> 00:08:00,800 In fact, a doctor de Zeke, degree was never on my mind. 135 00:08:00,900 --> 00:08:04,800 My thinking was, I want to get a masters degree so I could teach 136 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,400 full-time at a university. But as far as continuing on to a 137 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,800 doctor, I couldn't do it. And plus doing that time with 138 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:17,200 Brad, I had joined the National Guard and I was okay I went to 139 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:21,600 basic training and Interrupted my time at the advertising 140 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:25,000 agency that I work for. And after I finished basic 141 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:29,200 training, somebody talked me into going to officer candidate 142 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:30,800 School. While I was still working 143 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,299 full-time one weekend a month for me. 144 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:37,700 Eventually I received my second Lieutenant a commission and I 145 00:08:37,700 --> 00:08:40,400 thought well now I can work on the newspaper because I was 146 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,500 promised to work on a newspaper designing and put it together. 147 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:48,300 What happened after? I came back to my unit they said 148 00:08:48,300 --> 00:08:50,200 they needed it a tank platoon leader. 149 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,800 So they transferred me to Victor that that's a little different 150 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,100 than the newspaper. They transferred me different 151 00:08:57,100 --> 00:08:59,500 right. Right too big to Bill and told 152 00:08:59,500 --> 00:09:02,400 me well you don't have to worry. The first sergeant will teach 153 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,100 you how to use the tanks and I was thinking I don't want to be 154 00:09:05,100 --> 00:09:06,700 able to take, I don't even want to. 155 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,900 I was against the war in Vietnam and now imma take the to lady. 156 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:15,000 So I felt like I was betrayed. So I went to the motion. 157 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:19,600 I finished my seven years obligation and also, The Watts 158 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,500 Riot broke out when I came back to LA. 159 00:09:23,700 --> 00:09:27,800 So here I was in the middle of the Watts Riot with people 160 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,700 shooting and soldiers wanting to go out and kill some black 161 00:09:30,700 --> 00:09:32,800 people. And I'm at headquarters because 162 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,400 I was company clerk. So I could have said in that 163 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,500 clerk position forever, but that's another story. 164 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,600 Let's get on back to design. When you started off, you have 165 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:46,900 Boston Boston and one of the things that we know now is just 166 00:09:46,900 --> 00:09:50,600 how groundbreaking and Bowl Your work was that time period. 167 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:54,100 Did you think of it as that way or were you doing what you knew, 168 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,600 what to do? Well, we knew that it would be 169 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,700 controversial and we just thought, well, it was doing the 170 00:09:59,700 --> 00:10:02,400 civil rights movement, that was a lot of protests. 171 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,000 And this was all way of protesting about way of saying, 172 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,700 okay, we understand racism. We understand all this stuff, 173 00:10:09,700 --> 00:10:11,600 but we are going to do some graphics. 174 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,400 That is so provocative, you have to look at it and you have to 175 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:17,400 think about it. And then we're going to use this 176 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:22,600 metaphor of a And Cavern and equal opportunity designers to, 177 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:26,200 sort of mesh with the Equal Opportunity movement that was 178 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:30,300 going on during the time. So, those posters was really, so 179 00:10:30,300 --> 00:10:34,400 provocative, specially the one with hey, KK and then the Uncle 180 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,600 Tom was you, which most black people hated. 181 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:42,400 And then the third one, I think the third one was, I don't want 182 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,000 to marry your daughter. No. 183 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:45,400 Not. That was another one. 184 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:46,700 That was another guy. Can you did. 185 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,400 Yeah, but that was three. That was Really we're 186 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:53,600 earth-shaking. What was the reaction with with 187 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,900 other designers with designers on color or other designers in 188 00:10:56,900 --> 00:10:58,900 that time period? We remember other designers were 189 00:10:58,900 --> 00:11:02,300 cool, we submitted into the art directors Club Awards 190 00:11:02,300 --> 00:11:06,000 competition they wrote it in there and it really got into a 191 00:11:06,008 --> 00:11:08,700 lot of shows. So most of the creative people 192 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:13,700 were Coon but the people who were apprehensive were the 193 00:11:13,700 --> 00:11:17,500 agency supervisors. So most of the art directors, 194 00:11:17,700 --> 00:11:20,700 there's a son of In going on between the art directors and 195 00:11:20,700 --> 00:11:24,400 the account Executives, and the art directors had their own 196 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,900 board. I think they put up out posters 197 00:11:26,900 --> 00:11:30,800 just to insult the account Executives, and all the sort of 198 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,900 conservative people that are sort of nervous about what the 199 00:11:33,900 --> 00:11:37,500 client might think. So I'll posted were very popular 200 00:11:37,500 --> 00:11:40,100 with them. And with the clients that we 201 00:11:40,100 --> 00:11:43,800 work with had no problem with it, but we really weren't 202 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,900 targeting. Then, we were targeting the art 203 00:11:45,900 --> 00:11:49,600 directors and advertising agencies because We wanted to do 204 00:11:49,700 --> 00:11:53,600 more ads and more things that was related to and logos and 205 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,900 projects that were related. That most art directors don't do 206 00:11:56,900 --> 00:11:59,800 and they form out to designers. So we did that. 207 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,200 And then we had clients that we work with for a couple of years. 208 00:12:03,500 --> 00:12:07,800 Mostly industrial counts like, okay, just like a I not take Pac 209 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,700 electronic, Dana Laboratories. And a few others Raytheon. 210 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:13,700 We really enjoyed working with him. 211 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,000 And the only problem is, is feast or famine, when you have 212 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,700 the work is great. And then You don't have to work, 213 00:12:19,700 --> 00:12:24,400 you have to go out and solicit. So my feeling was I wanted a 214 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:29,000 regular life, so Brad. It was perfect for him because 215 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,400 he liked to work on weekends and especially Sunday, evening, and 216 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,700 listen, to gospel music. I did, I wanted to be home with 217 00:12:35,700 --> 00:12:40,100 my wife, so I felt like I needed to go back into advertising and 218 00:12:40,100 --> 00:12:41,800 I wanted to work with the copywriter. 219 00:12:42,100 --> 00:12:45,600 So I decided to go back into advertising and work with a 220 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,500 copywriter and I stayed in advertising for about eight and 221 00:12:48,500 --> 00:12:49,500 a half. A half years. 222 00:12:49,700 --> 00:12:53,100 And then when I got him to my thirties, I started thinking I 223 00:12:53,108 --> 00:12:55,800 don't see that many forty-year-old art director. 224 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,500 So, I better find another Direction that's when I started 225 00:12:58,500 --> 00:13:01,800 thinking about, Academia, and I went to USC. 226 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:06,900 I had my ba degree. So I took a class one class, a 227 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,100 semester year round for three years in the master's program, 228 00:13:11,100 --> 00:13:14,100 and I received a master's degree in Liberal Arts. 229 00:13:14,500 --> 00:13:17,600 I didn't want a master's degree in graphic design because I felt 230 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:18,600 at the time. Nobody could teach. 231 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,500 Me anything because I knew it, I had so I want. 232 00:13:21,500 --> 00:13:23,300 All right. I wanted to broaden my 233 00:13:23,300 --> 00:13:28,500 perspective in other areas which like oceanography and psychology 234 00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:33,300 and more in-depth areas that will expand my knowledge and 235 00:13:33,300 --> 00:13:37,000 enhance me as a person and I don't regret it because I was 236 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,600 the most interesting education experience. 237 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,700 I've had, you know, even it was more interesting than designing 238 00:13:43,700 --> 00:13:47,900 and working to receive a ba degree in graphic design because 239 00:13:47,900 --> 00:13:49,900 I was free. See, I knew I was a working 240 00:13:49,900 --> 00:13:53,600 professional and I was only going to enhance my knowledge. 241 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,700 So you had this great kind of extension of your professional 242 00:13:56,700 --> 00:13:59,600 development. When did you realize that you 243 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,800 had a gift to be a teacher? When did the dog education 244 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,600 really open bread and I work together, we talked part-time at 245 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:10,300 should our daughter Institute and we alternated Brad tone to 246 00:14:10,300 --> 00:14:13,200 the application, which is now Cal Arts, which is now counted 247 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,400 on calarts, right? So we taught there and then Brad 248 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:18,600 also taught at Cal State Long Beach. 249 00:14:19,100 --> 00:14:23,900 And he invited me to come down and guess lecture, but one of 250 00:14:23,908 --> 00:14:26,800 his sessions. So I went and I thought that's 251 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,800 interesting. So I told him, I think I might 252 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:31,700 apply there for a part-time position. 253 00:14:31,700 --> 00:14:35,200 So I applied there for a part-time position and they told 254 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,400 me that they would like to hire me full-time and I had to think 255 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,400 I'm making a lot more money on Advertising than in Academia. 256 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,600 So, I don't know if I could handle that and Brad told me. 257 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,200 No, don't do it. Don't do it. 258 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,400 Don't take a cut. And then I decided in Academia, 259 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:55,600 I can do my posters and I can move to our 10 you and input. 260 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:57,500 I received tenure I can do anything. 261 00:14:57,500 --> 00:15:00,700 I want any kind of design and no clients can fire me. 262 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,400 So, I thought I'll take a cut and go to Academia and sure I 263 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:09,400 and surely I did and I don't regret it because after I went 264 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:13,300 to Academia and start working more with students and I really 265 00:15:13,300 --> 00:15:15,700 enjoy working with students giving them assignments and 266 00:15:15,700 --> 00:15:17,700 giving them real life assignments. 267 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,700 Like what we did. In the profession and not just 268 00:15:20,700 --> 00:15:24,900 academic dies. So I enjoyed that. 269 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:29,500 But then I had my business on the side, I have clients and I 270 00:15:29,500 --> 00:15:33,200 can grow my business too, but I didn't want to grow a large 271 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,700 company. I just wanted to work with 272 00:15:35,700 --> 00:15:38,900 Academia and then part-time graphic design. 273 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,800 And what I had too much work, I would hire some of my students, 274 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,800 not those who are working, but those who are in between jobs 275 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,400 and help out, and I would help them when they They get a job, 276 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,200 they were move on. So, that is how I started work 277 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,100 with their Arty. Wow, Austin graphic design over 278 00:15:55,100 --> 00:15:57,600 the years. I wasn't I was trying to help 279 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,700 the students as well as myself and to try to keep current in 280 00:16:00,708 --> 00:16:02,000 the profession. Right. 281 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,900 And I did that for all of the 33 years, I taught at Cal State 282 00:16:05,900 --> 00:16:08,900 Long Beach. Sometimes I couldn't do as much 283 00:16:08,900 --> 00:16:12,400 food as possible, like when I served as chair of the 284 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,000 department, I really couldn't handle all of that and I told my 285 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,600 clients I have to take a break and they said Okay, after you 286 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,500 finish come back. So a lot of those clients that I 287 00:16:22,500 --> 00:16:24,400 work with, from Project to project. 288 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,700 But those clients I work with over 10 to 15 years. 289 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,300 They always think they worked around my schedule because they 290 00:16:31,300 --> 00:16:34,500 love my work and I assume that they like me. 291 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,300 So, that, whenever there's a project that when I told them 292 00:16:38,300 --> 00:16:41,200 that I'm free, they will give me as much work as I wanted. 293 00:16:41,300 --> 00:16:44,700 And then when I go back to Academia to rest, then it was 294 00:16:44,700 --> 00:16:48,400 like The Best of Both Worlds and that's why I stayed there. 295 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,400 Did you find in your position that being an educator made? 296 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,000 You a better designer and being a designer major better 297 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,100 educator? Absolutely, because what happens 298 00:16:58,100 --> 00:17:01,700 is the educator, is it crystallized your thinking's a 299 00:17:01,708 --> 00:17:06,200 lot of your design is intuitive and you just do it but when you 300 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,599 have to explain it to Young students and help them grow and 301 00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:14,800 not grow to be your clone, but to grow to their own style, that 302 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,400 is really rewarding and that is what I've done over the years 303 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,700 with My students and my students become my friends, afterwards 304 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,800 some will move on and go all over the world, but they always 305 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,000 stay in touch and that is a rewarding part about teaching. 306 00:17:30,300 --> 00:17:33,900 When you help students, I look at LinkedIn and I see all of 307 00:17:33,900 --> 00:17:36,700 these students in these different positions. 308 00:17:36,700 --> 00:17:39,800 In various jobs, they are creative, directors, art 309 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:41,400 directors. They know me. 310 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,000 I know them. And I'm just delighted because 311 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,400 when I received the honor from London, my students came and 312 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,100 Saying congratulations, it's well-deserved and all that. 313 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,000 So it really made me happy because I had a good 314 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,700 relationship with them. They respect me, I respect them, 315 00:17:58,700 --> 00:18:03,000 I planted the seed of being social conscious of right trying 316 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,900 to help others and to do good design. 317 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,800 But sometimes good design is based on the eyes of the 318 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:12,600 beholder. If a person doesn't know what 319 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,600 good design is, it's like ignorance is bliss. 320 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:20,500 So a lot of hand we think design is Aesthetics and some time we 321 00:18:20,500 --> 00:18:24,500 open emphasize as Aesthetics but I think design is really 322 00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:27,500 something that is needed in our society. 323 00:18:27,700 --> 00:18:30,400 I know you have a question coming up about that later on. 324 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,800 Definitely one of the things I was thinking about just as you 325 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,100 started talking about your journey in the work that you've 326 00:18:36,100 --> 00:18:41,400 done, it's really powerful that you've been self-aware to hold 327 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,200 on to things which sometimes we don't get a chance to do. 328 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,300 We're living in the history. And we forget that this is an 329 00:18:47,300 --> 00:18:50,500 object lesson for the What? I just want to applaud you. 330 00:18:50,700 --> 00:18:55,000 That not only have your posters been acquired by the Los Angeles 331 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,300 County Museum and the letter form, archive in South in San 332 00:18:58,300 --> 00:19:00,600 Francisco. But equally for our 333 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,300 conversation, you've offered your materials as teaching AIDS 334 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,600 at both Stanford University, libraries, that houses the 335 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,700 Archie, Boston graphic design files and it Duke University 336 00:19:10,700 --> 00:19:13,600 libraries, which have the arch of Austin papers, right? 337 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,500 So talk a bit about the importance of capturing, the 338 00:19:17,500 --> 00:19:20,300 history that you're a part of of to make it available for 339 00:19:20,300 --> 00:19:22,700 generations to learn, but I think it's important for 340 00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:26,300 reference graduate students. Use they do research and they 341 00:19:26,300 --> 00:19:28,700 want to know about certain designers and there's just a 342 00:19:28,708 --> 00:19:30,900 limited amount that they can do online. 343 00:19:31,300 --> 00:19:36,200 But I felt as if my word, I didn't want to keep my work to 344 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:40,500 try to sell it as I want to share everything. 345 00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:43,900 I've done with anybody who wanted to come and look at it. 346 00:19:43,900 --> 00:19:47,300 And I've always been that way with the 20 outstanding La 347 00:19:47,300 --> 00:19:51,300 designers documentary that I did years ago, I shared it with a 348 00:19:51,300 --> 00:19:55,400 lot of designers, I charge money for it but I set up a 349 00:19:55,408 --> 00:19:59,400 scholarship fund with the money and we gave scholarships to our 350 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,900 graphic design students. So I never thought about What 351 00:20:04,700 --> 00:20:08,200 financial gain for me because personally, I've never had a 352 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:12,200 financial problem because I've always been able to earn a 353 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,500 living. And since I was 7 years old, I 354 00:20:14,500 --> 00:20:18,700 started working as a paperboy and I work all of my life even 355 00:20:18,700 --> 00:20:22,600 up to now. So I a lot of time to me, 356 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,100 teaching doing graphic design and working. 357 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,400 It was fun. I enjoy, I still enjoy designing 358 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:35,800 today just as much as I did. 40, 50 years ago and took what I 359 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,100 said, fun for you. What keeps it fun and fresh for 360 00:20:38,100 --> 00:20:40,100 you? That's I think for me using my 361 00:20:40,100 --> 00:20:44,100 imagination, the anticipating, the reaction of the people, who 362 00:20:44,300 --> 00:20:47,100 will look at your work, especially if it's social 363 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:48,800 oriented. Because right? 364 00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:52,900 Sometimes I do work, that is offensive and I know that I will 365 00:20:52,900 --> 00:20:56,800 get a negative response even before I do it, but I do it to 366 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:01,100 raise a question in a person - to I gave you food for thought. 367 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:06,900 I know you are going to Give it a clap or whatever on LinkedIn 368 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:11,000 but I don't care because it's in your face, it's in your head and 369 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,800 you won't forget those exclamation. 370 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:17,000 Points are those gray black lives matter images, are those 371 00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:21,700 like reparation and all of those and the voting things that I've 372 00:21:21,700 --> 00:21:25,300 done over the years. It's a positive thing, it's a 373 00:21:25,300 --> 00:21:29,400 good thing and to me it's good design because they are 374 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,000 designing. Good designer, two different 375 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,900 things but good design. Is when you're trying to do good 376 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,600 trying to make a positive statement. 377 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:42,400 Good design is also Aesthetics when you design something that 378 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,400 has nice colors and that looks good on a shelf. 379 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,900 But only, we, as designers can see that because others are 380 00:21:49,900 --> 00:21:53,900 educated to the point where we are looking at typography and 381 00:21:53,900 --> 00:21:57,900 color and science relationships and all of those things, a lot 382 00:21:57,900 --> 00:22:00,400 of people don't even see that, all they see is the name of the 383 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,400 product, and if they buy the product, And it's a terrible 384 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,600 product, you've lost a customer design, plays an important part 385 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,800 in the Aesthetics of whatever we do. 386 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,800 And that is what I am. So excited, I design I don't 387 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,000 design for clients, you know, I designed for myself so I can do 388 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:21,000 anything I want and what I usually do is social oriented, I 389 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,700 like to do posters the last post was, I just did were for the 390 00:22:24,700 --> 00:22:28,300 women's movement, and I talked about the women's movement and I 391 00:22:28,300 --> 00:22:31,900 thought that what has happened to them with the Supreme Court 392 00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:36,100 is coaching on personal rights and it's not going to stop 393 00:22:36,100 --> 00:22:37,600 there. It's going to go other places. 394 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:41,200 So I wanted to speak out. It wasn't very popular. 395 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,900 I got one or two responses on LinkedIn. 396 00:22:44,100 --> 00:22:47,100 I don't care. I said it is there and it's 397 00:22:47,100 --> 00:22:51,200 there for everybody to know my point of view and you can't fire 398 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:56,600 me because I'm already retired. He's there it is. 399 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,300 What's interesting is when you think about your career Arc and 400 00:23:00,300 --> 00:23:02,800 you look back over the work in the archives and other space. 401 00:23:03,500 --> 00:23:08,500 You're still designing and tackling some of the same social 402 00:23:08,500 --> 00:23:11,100 issues that 50 years ago, were top of mind for you. 403 00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:14,900 How does the passage of a career in 50 years, impact your 404 00:23:14,900 --> 00:23:18,000 thoughts on those topics and how you express yourself was 405 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,000 frustrating? Because back then I thought they 406 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:25,100 would be better today and it did get better, but now I see the 407 00:23:25,100 --> 00:23:26,900 pendulum swinging back the other way. 408 00:23:27,100 --> 00:23:29,100 The posted one example of opposed to that. 409 00:23:29,100 --> 00:23:32,800 I did the one that I don't want to marry your daughter and this, 410 00:23:32,900 --> 00:23:36,100 Time I did an update of that poster and said, I want to move 411 00:23:36,100 --> 00:23:39,900 in with your mother. So you know it's like daughter 412 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,900 mother the same kind of situation back then when I made 413 00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:45,800 that statement, that was an insult. 414 00:23:45,900 --> 00:23:49,000 And then what I made the statement again, this time it 415 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:53,000 was an insult and I wanted it to be that way, because I wanted 416 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,400 the person's attention to say, what I had to say, you've always 417 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,800 been a champion for, as you mentioned earlier, design, being 418 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,600 more than aesthetic, but design being provocative. 419 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,600 Applause. And when it has the need in the 420 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:09,700 space to be provocative or not polite, if you will in the space 421 00:24:09,700 --> 00:24:12,900 in there, what advice do you have for young designers today? 422 00:24:13,300 --> 00:24:16,200 You know you were able to take your crafting, your tool and 423 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,500 kind of crack open the space. What advice do you have for 424 00:24:18,500 --> 00:24:22,100 young designers? Okay, I have something that I 425 00:24:22,100 --> 00:24:26,500 wrote, so I will read it to you. I lost it and it's the same 426 00:24:26,500 --> 00:24:29,700 advice that I gave to The Graduate students in London from 427 00:24:29,700 --> 00:24:33,800 the Royal College of the Arts. And it says what Is your next 428 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,300 goal. I hope it will be the following 429 00:24:36,300 --> 00:24:38,300 bees. I'm going to mention to you. 430 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,800 The Beatles wrote a song called Let It Be. 431 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:46,000 I substituted a few words to help paraphrase my advice to let 432 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,900 yourself be when you found yourself listening to this 433 00:24:49,900 --> 00:24:54,400 podcast, dr. Boston came to you speaking 434 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,600 words of wisdom. Let yourself be. 435 00:24:58,100 --> 00:25:01,300 Let yourself be. Let yourself be. 436 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:06,400 Let yourself be. Let yourself be speaking words 437 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,400 of wisdom, let yourself be. Now I know that was really bad 438 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,700 but I see you honey. That was brilliant and you're 439 00:25:13,700 --> 00:25:16,400 the first guest on the podcast to ever break out into song. 440 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,600 So that she always a Pioneer that shows you how much I love 441 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,400 graphic design and this is the serious advice that I have for 442 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:25,900 students. I said, let yourself be 443 00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:29,800 grateful, let yourself be ambitious, let yourself be 444 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:34,100 honest, that yourself be kind lady Self be creative. 445 00:25:34,300 --> 00:25:37,400 Let yourself be you and let yourself be loved 446 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,800 wholeheartedly. And finally I have something to 447 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:47,000 all of the listeners out there. I say that he him he is, are she 448 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,600 her hers? Are they them their be free to 449 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,900 love whomever they choose and to my fellow American that the 450 00:25:54,900 --> 00:26:00,000 President says, we must begin again to vote in November to let 451 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,800 women be free to make their own decision. 452 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,700 About their bodies and I always say to God be the glory and be 453 00:26:07,700 --> 00:26:10,800 blessed. I am honored that you shared 454 00:26:10,900 --> 00:26:14,300 those words of encouragement and focus with us on the podcast 455 00:26:14,300 --> 00:26:16,200 today. And as you shared in London, 456 00:26:16,500 --> 00:26:19,500 that's a good. I think segue for us to talk 457 00:26:19,500 --> 00:26:23,000 about a topic that you've talked about extensively and we love to 458 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,200 explore today, which is his notion of design spirituality, 459 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,000 right? Okay. 460 00:26:29,300 --> 00:26:34,100 That is something that when I return from teaching in, 2009, I 461 00:26:34,100 --> 00:26:38,100 had time to meditate read the Bible and I think about my 462 00:26:38,100 --> 00:26:42,300 career and how I got to where I was and I concluded that it was 463 00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:46,800 God's grace and listening to my intuition which I call my 464 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,600 spirituality played an important role, right? 465 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:54,000 And then I started writing essays about my spirituality and 466 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,800 there's a lot of my writing on my Pinterest page. 467 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,700 It features a lot of the education and I will read a 468 00:26:59,708 --> 00:27:02,200 couple of them to you. They aren't too long. 469 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,200 This one says, Design spirituality is intuition, my 470 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,100 idol and older, brother. Brad said at my 70th birthday 471 00:27:09,100 --> 00:27:11,700 celebration. That when we were growing up he 472 00:27:11,700 --> 00:27:14,400 thought that I would never amount to much because I was 473 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,800 still mischievous. He was right. 474 00:27:16,900 --> 00:27:19,700 I didn't amount to much. I'm not her too much more than 475 00:27:19,700 --> 00:27:22,800 much much more men. Working hard to strive for 476 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,400 design Excellence. If you love these iron, you 477 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,200 should work hard to find the best solution to a problem. 478 00:27:28,700 --> 00:27:31,500 You should do the proper research and learn as much about 479 00:27:31,500 --> 00:27:34,600 the product as you can. You should have fun doing it. 480 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,200 You must also sell your work. However, over the years, I 481 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,600 realized that that was my brother's perception of me. 482 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,200 It didnít find me. I have always listened to my 483 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,400 intuition and my intuition. I called my spirituality. 484 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:50,800 So, what about your spirituality? 485 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,200 Listen to your instincts. Don't ignore your gut feeling, 486 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,800 it is intangible. But if you close your eyes and 487 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,200 listen, they can speak to you. It might say I will help you. 488 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,700 I will lead you and protect. You trust me? 489 00:28:03,300 --> 00:28:07,600 I believe that in a voice is desired spirituality and you 490 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,100 should embrace it. Remember a person who doesn't 491 00:28:10,100 --> 00:28:13,300 amount to much in this word is great in God's sight. 492 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,200 Now another one, this is start, this is my design spirituality 493 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,900 belief. I believe that I'm a spiritual 494 00:28:19,900 --> 00:28:22,400 designer. I believe that my intuition is 495 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,200 my spirituality, I believe that God is my design director. 496 00:28:26,300 --> 00:28:29,700 Not humankind. I believe that God gave me my 497 00:28:29,700 --> 00:28:34,200 talents and he speaks to me and dream now that I'm old I believe 498 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,900 that we should embrace his eye spirituality as part of our 499 00:28:36,900 --> 00:28:39,300 design philosophy. And I believe that we should 500 00:28:39,300 --> 00:28:44,000 love glorify and respect communication design and your 501 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,500 spirituality. So, those are the two of the 502 00:28:46,500 --> 00:28:50,300 essays that are written. There are many more on my site. 503 00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:53,400 I'm reading a lot, and I think I'm going to write a book on my 504 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,300 journey to design spirituality and it will be and he can ask 505 00:28:57,300 --> 00:28:59,000 you as can ask you. What's next? 506 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,200 That that's the book. I'm going to write a book and I 507 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,600 also thought But teaching a course writing a syllabus 508 00:29:06,100 --> 00:29:11,200 contacting University and maybe teaching a course on design 509 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,500 spirituality because I have a lot to say and I do have 510 00:29:15,500 --> 00:29:17,400 exercises, I can give to the students. 511 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,600 So that's one of my thoughts. The one is teaching a class, 512 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,700 maybe online and the other is writing a book on, do that 513 00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:26,100 spirituality. So those are my two projects 514 00:29:26,100 --> 00:29:28,300 that I'm thinking about, and I've started. 515 00:29:28,300 --> 00:29:32,800 But I don't know when it will be finished, but I'm excited today. 516 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,100 This year, but maybe next year, it might be a completely 517 00:29:36,100 --> 00:29:39,300 different Focus. But at least I always have 518 00:29:39,300 --> 00:29:42,600 projects ahead of me that I can get excited about. 519 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,000 And I'm excited about the spirituality, I'm excited about 520 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,500 doing another book, but not a hardcover, but an ebook ebook 521 00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:54,700 that people can download and read that is where I'm going. 522 00:29:54,700 --> 00:29:58,200 And also, you can use full color and it doesn't cost you an arm 523 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,500 and a leg. So also always the pragmatic. 524 00:30:03,100 --> 00:30:04,300 Tune in Boston. Visit lutely. 525 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,000 Absolutely. Always the pragmatic. 526 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,600 I've asked you this question. When we go through our Journeys 527 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,700 and lives, and we went Awards and received recognitions, we 528 00:30:13,700 --> 00:30:17,900 always have a moment that keeps us humble, and it's always in 529 00:30:17,900 --> 00:30:20,100 our family and our significant others. 530 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:22,700 So, talk about your wife's reaction. 531 00:30:22,700 --> 00:30:24,400 Once you won the award in London. 532 00:30:24,700 --> 00:30:28,100 Now she sees you every day. Okay, I won awards over the 533 00:30:28,100 --> 00:30:31,700 years. I won when I received the aiga 534 00:30:31,700 --> 00:30:33,900 honor. She thought that Was really nice 535 00:30:34,300 --> 00:30:35,400 but what I did. Okay. 536 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:39,800 See, right when I receive the honorary doctorate she got on 537 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,600 the phone and she started calling her friends and she 538 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,400 wanted a copy of the letter that she wanted to send out to them. 539 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,300 And I'm just thinking oh she's finally excited about something, 540 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,500 right? And that was her reaction and 541 00:30:52,500 --> 00:30:54,800 she just loved the, she loved the trip. 542 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:59,500 She enjoyed the people, the reception, and how accommodating 543 00:30:59,500 --> 00:31:02,400 they were and just respectful at the dinner. 544 00:31:02,700 --> 00:31:06,300 It was Nice. And what bothers me though is, I 545 00:31:06,300 --> 00:31:12,000 was given this award by a university, that is how to this 546 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:17,100 country in London. What why would they give me this 547 00:31:17,100 --> 00:31:18,800 honor? And this is the number one 548 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,800 college in the world and I haven't received anything from a 549 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,600 university here. I've never spoken to a black 550 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,000 historical black college. Why is that? 551 00:31:31,300 --> 00:31:36,600 Maybe because I'm you know, Well, we it's okay controversial 552 00:31:36,700 --> 00:31:38,900 Cadet that keeps you authentically Archie, right. 553 00:31:38,900 --> 00:31:41,000 But but we are we gonna We gonna keep you? 554 00:31:41,100 --> 00:31:42,300 We're gonna keep you controversial. 555 00:31:42,300 --> 00:31:44,000 That's sweet. That's we love about you. 556 00:31:44,300 --> 00:31:45,800 Exactly. To our point, one of the things 557 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:50,300 you want to talk about design is truly a global practice and 558 00:31:50,300 --> 00:31:53,900 influence and we see it in the conversations with you. 559 00:31:53,900 --> 00:31:59,700 In space to that that borders, proximity and ideas, don't 560 00:31:59,700 --> 00:32:03,300 restrict design and the recognition and respect over. - 561 00:32:03,300 --> 00:32:05,000 faces in there, I think it's really powerful. 562 00:32:05,100 --> 00:32:06,300 You think about the world College? 563 00:32:06,300 --> 00:32:09,900 What they think started in 1896, right? 564 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,100 And for you, miss the old, as a black man who grew up in Florida 565 00:32:13,100 --> 00:32:16,500 right after to come full circle. I asked the question, the other 566 00:32:16,500 --> 00:32:20,200 information about your way. Yes, indeed, in the other guys. 567 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,000 So I asked the question about hungry about your wife, because 568 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:26,800 one of the things that it's always struck me. 569 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,500 When you talk about your journey, you talk about making 570 00:32:29,500 --> 00:32:31,900 that decision and your professional craft we're 571 00:32:32,300 --> 00:32:34,400 spending time. Time with your family and your 572 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,100 wife in particular were important. 573 00:32:36,500 --> 00:32:39,800 Oh and and having that story there, at the beginning of your 574 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,200 career and then ultimately, one of the high points of your 575 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,100 career. Absolutely. 576 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,300 Absolutely. Did you don't have very special. 577 00:32:47,500 --> 00:32:50,100 Yeah, we have that yin-yang kind of relationship. 578 00:32:50,100 --> 00:32:53,000 We think alike we she can say well what's your dinner 579 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,800 tomorrow? And I'm thinking well I'll see. 580 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,000 And she said, oh, I was thinking the same thing and I'm thinking 581 00:32:59,100 --> 00:33:02,300 we've been together this long. We even know what we are 582 00:33:02,300 --> 00:33:06,400 thinking. Which is amazing but we're best 583 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,000 friends too. So we enjoy each other's company 584 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:13,300 and if there's anywhere I would love to be it's with my life. 585 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,600 The two of us and I met her in high school. 586 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:21,200 And here it is. 54 years later and we're still actually still 587 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,700 hanging out with you, and she's still hanging out with me and I 588 00:33:25,708 --> 00:33:28,900 guess she still respects me. It's about it too. 589 00:33:29,300 --> 00:33:32,100 This is awesome. We talked about kind of this 590 00:33:32,100 --> 00:33:34,900 full circle. Of design being a part of a 591 00:33:34,900 --> 00:33:38,000 happy life and a successful life, right? 592 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,500 Before you as a space in there, as you talk to designers who are 593 00:33:42,500 --> 00:33:45,500 working who sometimes have to make those trade-offs, we talk 594 00:33:45,500 --> 00:33:49,700 today a lot about work-life balance, but it's facing which 595 00:33:49,700 --> 00:33:52,400 design in our creative. Pursuits can be all 596 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,000 encompassing. All right. 597 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,600 We can have that part of the passion of this overtakes Us in 598 00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,500 there. What advice do you have about 599 00:33:59,500 --> 00:34:02,700 having that mediation between the pack crashing? 600 00:34:02,700 --> 00:34:06,000 The Cactus in life. What do you have to be aware? 601 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:12,199 Aware of not only yourself, but your kids, your grandkids, your 602 00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:15,600 wife, and when you find that you have spending too much time 603 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,500 doing what you're doing, then you have to make the time to 604 00:34:19,500 --> 00:34:22,300 spend it with your kids because they're going to grow up. 605 00:34:22,300 --> 00:34:25,800 And once they receive become a teenager you can forget it. 606 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,500 They're into their friend. So the best time to enjoy them 607 00:34:29,500 --> 00:34:33,400 is when they are young then eventually after their Age years 608 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,300 and they go off into life then, you know, they'll come back. 609 00:34:36,300 --> 00:34:39,500 But usually you have to start a be aware of that. 610 00:34:39,500 --> 00:34:41,800 And then there's the interpersonal relationship with 611 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,100 your brothers and your sisters. And how do I get along with 612 00:34:45,100 --> 00:34:47,500 them? I've always worked hard, but 613 00:34:47,500 --> 00:34:50,000 I've always been a conduit to others. 614 00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:52,900 I have the six of us. I'm the third one. 615 00:34:53,300 --> 00:34:56,600 I'm the person who it's connected to both sides, the 616 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,900 younger one, right? And the older ones and the older 617 00:34:58,900 --> 00:35:02,500 ones have a different attitude than the younger ones, but I 618 00:35:02,500 --> 00:35:06,400 keep I'm in touch with each other because if I don't, then 619 00:35:06,500 --> 00:35:08,700 they will not speak to each other. 620 00:35:08,700 --> 00:35:11,600 If there's something goes wrong, I try to bring them back but 621 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,500 it's a family Dynamic that somebody has to take charge of. 622 00:35:15,700 --> 00:35:19,200 And I didn't take charge, it just sort of fell into my lap 623 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,700 and I just enjoy the same thing with my work and the same thing 624 00:35:22,700 --> 00:35:25,600 with this doctor degree, things just happened. 625 00:35:25,700 --> 00:35:30,300 And I'm thinking why it didn't happen because of me, I didn't 626 00:35:30,300 --> 00:35:33,200 do anything. It's just happened because Maybe 627 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,900 that was my life path. Maybe that was part of my 628 00:35:35,900 --> 00:35:38,700 spirituality, I've always been a Christian. 629 00:35:38,700 --> 00:35:42,000 I've always going to church. I joined the church. 630 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,900 When I was 12 years old and I've been going to the same church. 631 00:35:45,900 --> 00:35:49,500 Attended the same church is 1961, you know, I don't know. 632 00:35:49,500 --> 00:35:53,400 The pastor's to have changed and people have grown up and I stay 633 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,600 on the course and I've always done that. 634 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,500 So I'm a person, once I start something, I'm a loyal person I 635 00:35:59,500 --> 00:36:03,000 would stick with that person, my friend, even sometimes My 636 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:04,800 enemies. I don't want any of these. 637 00:36:05,500 --> 00:36:08,100 I try to treat everybody, right? Because that's the way it was 638 00:36:08,100 --> 00:36:10,300 supposed to. One of the things is that 639 00:36:10,300 --> 00:36:12,900 answer. Your question is Rich that did 640 00:36:13,100 --> 00:36:13,900 and more. Okay. 641 00:36:13,900 --> 00:36:16,800 One of the things that struck me, is, you're talking and it's 642 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,500 common for many Educators, but it's still remarkable. 643 00:36:20,700 --> 00:36:23,800 The fact that you talked about your students over the years, 644 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,200 still say connected with you and you connected with them. 645 00:36:27,300 --> 00:36:30,000 Absolutely. Which is right as you reflect on 646 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,400 this. What if you learn most from your 647 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,500 students? Well, the students, I've learned 648 00:36:34,500 --> 00:36:38,300 how to be more compassionate also to be understanding because 649 00:36:38,500 --> 00:36:41,900 students have problems, and they might not go to their father, 650 00:36:42,100 --> 00:36:45,900 but they might come to you as somebody they respect and will 651 00:36:45,900 --> 00:36:48,100 keep their feelings confidential. 652 00:36:48,500 --> 00:36:52,400 So I've always been a person that my students could come and 653 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:57,500 talk to not only about design, but about personal problems that 654 00:36:57,500 --> 00:37:01,100 they trust me. So I really felt like I was not 655 00:37:01,100 --> 00:37:04,000 only their teacher, I was R counselor, I might have been 656 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,900 their Idol whomever because I've had idols, and I've had people 657 00:37:07,900 --> 00:37:13,100 that I respect and I could talk to, but that to me is very, very 658 00:37:13,100 --> 00:37:15,300 important being there for my students. 659 00:37:15,300 --> 00:37:19,700 Not only, they're all, I'm teaching, but they're outside of 660 00:37:19,700 --> 00:37:23,000 teaching because sometimes students have problems and they 661 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,300 will call you, or they will send you an email and a lot of 662 00:37:26,300 --> 00:37:30,300 teachers will say, don't bother me when I'm not teaching because 663 00:37:30,300 --> 00:37:33,400 I'm not on the clock. My attitude is I'm on the clock 664 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:37,500 24/7 for people I care about and for my profession, these are 665 00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:41,100 young people who are going to go into a profession that I've been 666 00:37:41,100 --> 00:37:47,700 in and that has been great to me and have brought me a lot of joy 667 00:37:47,900 --> 00:37:51,800 and I really want them to go there and to do the same thing. 668 00:37:52,300 --> 00:37:54,300 But a lot of times it doesn't work out that way. 669 00:37:54,900 --> 00:37:59,300 I'd like to be one to encourage you to continue to be Archie 670 00:37:59,300 --> 00:38:04,800 Basta to continue being that. Section four generations that 671 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:09,500 really Champions art culture. I'm going to add spirituality 672 00:38:09,500 --> 00:38:13,400 with this and Industry. Spirituality, sounds good. 673 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,000 A lot of people don't Embrace that. 674 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,600 In fact, they're probably thinking, what in the hell is he 675 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,600 talking about? Why is he talking about 676 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,800 spirituality? You know what, I don't care what 677 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,100 they say. I what they think I'm going to 678 00:38:27,100 --> 00:38:30,800 keep doing what I'm doing until I leave here. 679 00:38:31,100 --> 00:38:34,500 I'm going to be the father Of design spirituality whether you 680 00:38:34,500 --> 00:38:38,700 like it or not. All right. 681 00:38:38,700 --> 00:38:46,100 Now again, find that. It's so true to Archie Boston 682 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,500 and what an incredible way I think to in the podcast where I 683 00:38:50,500 --> 00:38:53,900 started, no one can suppress Archie. 684 00:38:53,900 --> 00:38:58,100 Boston, my friend, you're incredible, you're an 685 00:38:58,100 --> 00:38:59,700 inspiration. Thank you. 686 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:05,200 Just your Unapologetic. To being bold and being you is 687 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,600 really remarkable for generations of designers and 688 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,800 leaders to see say thank you. My pretty that I'll see you in 689 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:13,300 Seattle. Yes. 690 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:18,000 We will see each other and Seattle for a say, yeah, it in 691 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,500 person together for our investigator and conference 692 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,000 today, we've been with none other than Archie, Boston, 693 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:29,800 Junior, designer leader, educator, and friend. 694 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,300 Thank you for Champion design for future. 695 00:39:32,500 --> 00:39:34,900 Generations, thank you for being our guest today. 696 00:39:34,900 --> 00:39:37,100 On design adjacent, you're welcome. 697 00:39:37,100 --> 00:39:39,500 Now, what am I going to do with this outline that I wrote, I 698 00:39:39,500 --> 00:39:43,000 didn't follow it. That's very and that the spirit 699 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:48,000 moves we going outlines, just give you ideas but that's right. 700 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,800 The flow we let the energy flow. Absolutely, I hope those out 701 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:52,700 there. Can feel it. 702 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:55,600 Thank you very much for inviting me. 703 00:39:56,300 --> 00:39:58,100 Thank you, my friend for being here with us. 704 00:39:58,700 --> 00:40:02,000 Show notes for this episode will be available on AIG a.org. 705 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,400 Urgh. Please subscribe to our show on 706 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,800 anchor Apple, podcasts Google play Spotify or wherever you get 707 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,100 your podcast. Aiga is designed adjacent 708 00:40:12,100 --> 00:40:16,300 podcasts and its contents of the copyright of aiga the 709 00:40:16,300 --> 00:40:20,700 professional association for design All Rights Reserved, any 710 00:40:20,700 --> 00:40:24,400 redistribution or reproduction of part or all of the contents 711 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,100 in any form is prohibited without aig's Express written 712 00:40:28,100 --> 00:40:31,400 permission. My name is Li Xian zhuang until 713 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:32,000 next time.