1 00:00:00,100 --> 00:00:03,500 Welcome to AI GA s fireside chat. 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:07,000 This is the final day of the 2022. 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:09,200 Aiga design, a business conference. 4 00:00:09,300 --> 00:00:11,400 Thank you for joining us for this Fireside. 5 00:00:11,500 --> 00:00:15,000 And for the conference before we begin our fireside chat. 6 00:00:15,500 --> 00:00:18,400 Please connect with us and share your thoughts, the hashtags for 7 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,900 this events are aiga design and aiga DB conf. 8 00:00:23,300 --> 00:00:26,800 Now, it is my pleasure to welcome Benny up, Johnson a 9 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,800 ideas executive director and today's guest one. 10 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,300 Dedecker, president and creative director of Decker design, 11 00:00:33,500 --> 00:00:36,300 Benny. Greetings, everyone and Welcome 12 00:00:36,300 --> 00:00:42,500 to our third and final fireside chat for this year's aiga design 13 00:00:42,500 --> 00:00:45,700 and business conference, you know, over the past few days. 14 00:00:45,700 --> 00:00:48,600 We've been exploring. This intersection that space 15 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,900 between design and business business and design and the 16 00:00:51,908 --> 00:00:55,800 design of business, you know, all of the areas in which we see 17 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,800 growth and an opportunity for you as design professionals. 18 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,300 Business Leaders agency is Studio owners and those involved 19 00:01:04,300 --> 00:01:06,900 in the growth of our contemporary design, practice to 20 00:01:06,900 --> 00:01:10,000 see the power of these connections for building a 21 00:01:10,008 --> 00:01:13,700 better workplace, better Solutions and better Futures 22 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,400 today. I am really delighted to bring a 23 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,600 fellow business owner to our table, to bring one, the one, 24 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:26,600 and only Linda Decker president and creative director of Decker 25 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:32,300 designs. It was 27. 26 years ago now that 26 00:01:32,300 --> 00:01:35,800 you started on this journey to become your own business owner 27 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:40,300 and I could go into deeper bio, but I'd rather have us just jump 28 00:01:40,300 --> 00:01:42,600 into the conversation Linda because that's a great way to 29 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:43,600 start. Yeah. 30 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:47,900 I need six years ago. Yeah, we decided that something 31 00:01:47,900 --> 00:01:53,800 was going to be different. I did I was, I would say a 32 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,700 malcontent employee. Sorry talk about it. 33 00:01:57,700 --> 00:02:00,700 I've been that employee to. So just you're in Space. 34 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,400 Well, you know, I was working, I've worked in ad agencies and 35 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:09,100 I've worked for design firms. And I always, I was always 36 00:02:09,100 --> 00:02:12,500 observing how they ran their business, because I always 37 00:02:12,500 --> 00:02:19,200 wanted my own business. And in my last position I was, I 38 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:23,500 was a particularly malcontent. The Firm was was not run very 39 00:02:23,500 --> 00:02:27,600 well and I had a very good friend in Chicago, who had been 40 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,800 running his own business for a number of years. 41 00:02:29,900 --> 00:02:36,600 And and in the snowstorm of 1996, it was like called the 42 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,000 like Storm of the Century, right? 43 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,600 We had dinner in the middle of a blizzard and he basically told 44 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,700 me that he was absolutely sick of hearing me complain about my 45 00:02:45,700 --> 00:02:49,300 job and I better make plans to start my own business because if 46 00:02:49,300 --> 00:02:53,800 he could do it, I could do it too, which is it's not really 47 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,100 true. But but the motivation that you 48 00:02:57,100 --> 00:02:59,500 need it, right? Exactly, exactly. 49 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:01,600 And then On top of it, which was wonderful. 50 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:07,000 Was that he offered to Mentor me in that journey and help me 51 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:08,500 anytime. I needed help. 52 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:13,500 And and that is, its shout out to Steve Liska in Chicago. 53 00:03:13,500 --> 00:03:17,900 And Steve has always been there every single time that like 54 00:03:17,900 --> 00:03:20,600 something happened and I would call and say, I don't know how 55 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:24,900 to deal with this, and he helped me through a lot of those early 56 00:03:24,900 --> 00:03:29,600 days with lots of advice. What were the things that 57 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,200 shocked you? Those first couple of months 58 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:38,200 when you came in to starting your own business, you know, it 59 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,900 was mostly human behavior. I think that was the hardest 60 00:03:40,900 --> 00:03:43,500 thing. It was sometimes whether it was 61 00:03:43,500 --> 00:03:48,700 employees like you would, you know, at that point I was hiring 62 00:03:48,700 --> 00:03:51,300 interns. And then I'd always be shocked, 63 00:03:51,300 --> 00:03:53,400 like someone would work with me for a few months. 64 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,800 And, you know, this is not to say I was not a very 65 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,100 well-trained manager. I Say, relatively early in my 66 00:03:59,100 --> 00:04:04,600 career and people would suddenly leave or they just wouldn't show 67 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:08,400 up or a client would make a mistake. 68 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,300 Like so when I started my business that was you know, 69 00:04:11,300 --> 00:04:14,600 print was really the thing, you would send a job to a printer 70 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,800 and you know, things were thousands of dollars and 71 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,399 thousands and tens of thousands of dollars for printing. 72 00:04:21,399 --> 00:04:23,800 And the client would have made a mistake. 73 00:04:23,900 --> 00:04:29,000 They'd call me up screaming and they want me to I pay for fixing 74 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:30,300 it. Right? 75 00:04:30,300 --> 00:04:35,100 And it was it was horrifying because I certainly was in no 76 00:04:35,100 --> 00:04:38,000 position and you know where it's like you're working for City, 77 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,900 someone from like Citigroup, and you're just like, I'm Linda 78 00:04:40,900 --> 00:04:42,100 Decker. Your secret. 79 00:04:42,100 --> 00:04:45,000 Like, why are you, why are you loading this on me? 80 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,900 And it's your mistake, you know, and so those were some of the 81 00:04:48,908 --> 00:04:53,700 things that really shocked me was was the need to have 82 00:04:53,700 --> 00:04:59,000 contracts and to be able to wear your Agreements ahead of time. 83 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:03,500 Like, I already said that people would be good people and they're 84 00:05:03,500 --> 00:05:07,200 not always sometimes something sometimes they aren't. 85 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,900 But one of the things we know is that as you mentioned, one of 86 00:05:10,900 --> 00:05:15,600 our most downloaded resources of aiga, are the contracts. 87 00:05:15,700 --> 00:05:19,900 Yeah, and, you know, contracts, give people who intend to be 88 00:05:19,900 --> 00:05:22,300 good. A roadmap on how to behave, 89 00:05:22,500 --> 00:05:23,600 right? I didn't mean that's when we 90 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,200 think about it. We've all had those business 91 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:27,300 conversations, where they're good. 92 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,700 People either side but there's kind of a misunderstanding of 93 00:05:29,700 --> 00:05:31,300 where we need to be. Hmm. 94 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:33,600 And you're right. We just take a step back. 95 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,900 If you're a major corporation, you're the one solopreneur 96 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,700 eating the cost of printing is a life-or-death conversation for 97 00:05:41,700 --> 00:05:45,600 you as a small business, right? And that was, you know, trying 98 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:49,700 to get paid and sometimes people holding up payment, those were 99 00:05:49,700 --> 00:05:53,600 really difficult situations where you know, when you're, you 100 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,000 know, at the time when you start and your, as you said a 101 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,500 solopreneur and your In to bring people on, you know, as you 102 00:05:59,500 --> 00:06:03,000 start to take those steps to bring other people onto your 103 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,600 team. Then you realize like you're 104 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:11,200 responsible for somebody else's life and you know, and then some 105 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:16,100 client is holding up payment for, you know, for some I 106 00:06:16,100 --> 00:06:19,100 remember somebody holding up a payment for stock photos. 107 00:06:19,100 --> 00:06:23,700 And I don't even remember what the issue was that he had. 108 00:06:23,700 --> 00:06:27,500 But I remember having to have a really long conversation with As 109 00:06:27,500 --> 00:06:32,200 man in order to get him to pay his bill and then finally he 110 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,200 agreed to and I got to check the next day, but it was some of the 111 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:40,600 times it was harrowing, right? And so when did you, when did 112 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,600 you have that moment that you looked around and realize you 113 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,700 were running a business? When did it really sink in? 114 00:06:50,300 --> 00:06:55,300 Maybe on April 13th when you? And I had the conversation? 115 00:06:57,300 --> 00:07:00,700 Then you wanted me to participate in this fireside. 116 00:07:00,700 --> 00:07:04,500 Chat is awesome. And that's exactly why we 117 00:07:04,508 --> 00:07:06,900 wouldn't be a part of his fireside chat. 118 00:07:07,100 --> 00:07:11,800 So you've been, you know, running your design shopping, 119 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:16,400 you do incredible work, that impacts top-notch companies and 120 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:18,800 organizations and you've been doing it for 26 years. 121 00:07:19,100 --> 00:07:23,100 Yeah, which is, you know, no small feat for for small 122 00:07:23,100 --> 00:07:26,200 business and it's you know, one of the one of the reasons I was 123 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,400 excited to talk to you as well. Well about your just attitude 124 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:33,600 and energy and resilience in managing this business for that 125 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,600 time period. How have you seen your role as 126 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:42,400 an independent creative shop? Transform over the last 20 127 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,900 years. Oh gosh, it has transformed 128 00:07:44,900 --> 00:07:49,900 tremendously, you know, when when I started the business, as 129 00:07:49,900 --> 00:07:53,600 I had sent you just before it was very print-based and there 130 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:58,900 were, you know, and at that time in the late 90s, So, you know, 131 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,700 the internet was starting to be a thing. 132 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,600 It was nowhere, you know, websites were nowhere, what they 133 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:10,000 are now? And, you know, it was so much 134 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,800 work. There was so, there were so many 135 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:17,200 print projects and I built my client base by picking up the 136 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:21,500 phone and literally cold calling people and that was a time where 137 00:08:21,500 --> 00:08:24,800 people did actually answer them to the phone and you built a 138 00:08:24,808 --> 00:08:26,200 business around that. Wow. 139 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,900 Yeah. And I had to, I can't tell you 140 00:08:28,900 --> 00:08:31,700 how much I had to Steel myself for that because sometimes some 141 00:08:31,700 --> 00:08:34,400 people would be horrible and really rude and other times 142 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,700 people have been like yeah, I need somebody wanted to come on 143 00:08:36,700 --> 00:08:40,700 in like there was just so much work that people needed 144 00:08:40,799 --> 00:08:44,500 designers to do that work and the projects were not 145 00:08:44,500 --> 00:08:48,800 necessarily all that big and so they didn't feel like they were 146 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:52,800 risking their careers now. So many, so many projects, 147 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:57,200 especially the ones that we do are fairly substantial and they 148 00:08:57,500 --> 00:09:03,000 On for, you know, a year and a half or two and, you know, and 149 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,000 people are really nervous when they're making that decision 150 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,600 because they have a, their career is on the line. 151 00:09:09,100 --> 00:09:11,500 You know, when I started it was just sort of like, oh, can you 152 00:09:11,500 --> 00:09:13,000 do this for sure? Yeah. 153 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:14,000 Sure. I can do that. 154 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:19,200 So in that space, how do you strengthen your role as a 155 00:09:19,208 --> 00:09:23,000 credible resource? Thank you for coming in and and 156 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,600 the person on the other side, this matters more than more 157 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:28,700 right there. This is their career space in 158 00:09:28,700 --> 00:09:31,300 there. How do you kind of steal them to 159 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,100 your incredible resource? Well, I you know, I think you 160 00:09:35,100 --> 00:09:38,600 know that goes to something that you were speaking with Katrina 161 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,900 about the other day on Wednesday, and she was talking 162 00:09:41,900 --> 00:09:48,400 about how designers over index on crafts and you know what we 163 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,200 were saying earlier and I said to you, it's a conversation that 164 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:55,700 is sort of yes, and if it over indexing on Craft is wonderful 165 00:09:55,700 --> 00:09:59,600 when you are Just starting your career because that gives you a 166 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,700 Runway. It gives you an entree into say, 167 00:10:02,700 --> 00:10:07,200 a firm like mine or say like a firm like Michaels, you know, at 168 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:12,200 pentagram every single young designer has index very highly 169 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:16,900 on crafts at pentagram. But over indexing, on Craft 170 00:10:16,900 --> 00:10:21,300 eventually holds you back. And so really, in terms of my 171 00:10:21,300 --> 00:10:25,100 journey. I had to learn and really 172 00:10:25,100 --> 00:10:29,600 educate myself on the other. Ex of business over time because 173 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:34,200 otherwise I was not credible. The, you know, and then the 174 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,800 other issue that, you know, we should probably touch upon is 175 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:39,800 gender. And the role of women in 176 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:44,800 business because the rules are a bit different for women and all 177 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:50,200 of this and in terms of building trust, so getting back to over 178 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,900 time, I really started reading, you know, in terms of business. 179 00:10:54,900 --> 00:11:00,400 I'm pretty, I'm really I've, you know, read a lot of different 180 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,500 business books. If there is a, you know, a 181 00:11:03,500 --> 00:11:07,300 seminar I'll participate in it, even if it's a topic that I 182 00:11:07,300 --> 00:11:09,600 think I already know very well. I'll just see if there's 183 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,400 something else, you know that I can learn from it. 184 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:18,600 So I'm always curious and always always open to learning and then 185 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:23,800 also back in 2012. I went back to school. 186 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:27,100 I went to School of Visual Arts to get a masters in. 187 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,300 Design criticism. Because I felt that I needed to 188 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,400 improve my critical thinking and writing skills. 189 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,600 Okay, so I was just like, I was probably at the time like one of 190 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:44,700 the oldest students in the program, but it was running a 191 00:11:44,700 --> 00:11:48,900 business and doing a full-time master's program was insane. 192 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,500 I will just say that right now, right? 193 00:11:52,300 --> 00:11:57,800 But but, but in the land of the same, that's right, so, So let 194 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,000 me think about that. But this is this commitment in 195 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,700 reinvestment in yourself. Yeah, people can see that. 196 00:12:03,700 --> 00:12:06,000 Even if you're running a business Enterprise, there's 197 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,500 still opportunity for that for that growth, in this faith in 198 00:12:09,500 --> 00:12:11,900 there. And you have to, because if you 199 00:12:11,900 --> 00:12:15,100 look at the way, the design industry has changed since the 200 00:12:15,100 --> 00:12:18,200 late 90s, we started out as a heavily print base. 201 00:12:18,500 --> 00:12:24,100 And now where we are is very, you know, heavily digital and 202 00:12:24,300 --> 00:12:27,500 non-digital Brands. And, you know, I think Think 203 00:12:27,500 --> 00:12:32,900 branding has never been as big as it is right. 204 00:12:32,900 --> 00:12:37,200 Now, you know, if I think back to, you know, when I started my 205 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:41,600 career in the design industry or even back to when you know, in 206 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:46,500 the 90s they were these giant binders that were created and it 207 00:12:46,500 --> 00:12:48,600 was, there were only a few firms. 208 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,500 And it wasn't, it was called corporate identity. 209 00:12:50,500 --> 00:12:54,400 It wasn't even called branding. And if you were talking about a 210 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:58,400 brand, that was something more that like, Procter & Gamble was 211 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,700 doing. We're talking about it that. 212 00:13:00,700 --> 00:13:03,200 Yeah, but that was my entry into brand. 213 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,900 It was partnering Gamble and, you know, creating the brand and 214 00:13:06,900 --> 00:13:09,800 the brand Management program there for me, really thinking 215 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,200 about that. But today, when we talk about 216 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,800 brand, it's almost ubiquitous. It's everywhere. 217 00:13:15,900 --> 00:13:20,800 But yet our understanding of what a brand is today what the 218 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,300 responsibilities in the business? 219 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:26,400 I think has a has less Clarity. Yeah. 220 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,500 People to come in. And so when you, when you have 221 00:13:29,500 --> 00:13:33,000 clients to reach out to you, do they really understand the 222 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,000 extent of your capabilities. Do you find it? 223 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,600 They they understand what they're looking for and what you 224 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:42,700 can help them with or is it still more of a coaching and 225 00:13:42,700 --> 00:13:46,100 learning? Its I'd say it's a bit of each. 226 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:47,900 There is some coaching and learning. 227 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:55,400 I mean, we decided about five years ago to really focus. 228 00:13:55,500 --> 00:13:59,400 Our work into And that's primarily Financial Services, 229 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:03,800 which is where, you know, I just had so much experience in that 230 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:10,500 area and then also law firms and which is something we fell into 231 00:14:10,500 --> 00:14:13,900 sort of accidentally and then I found out that I really really 232 00:14:13,900 --> 00:14:18,100 like working with lawyers and that's what happens like when 233 00:14:18,100 --> 00:14:20,700 you sleep fade out and get we say that again so we can have 234 00:14:20,700 --> 00:14:24,200 that for the record. I really, really, really like 235 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:31,500 working for lawyers there. Smart they are for the most part 236 00:14:31,500 --> 00:14:35,900 willing to listen and to acknowledge that they that they 237 00:14:35,900 --> 00:14:39,300 have their expertise and that somebody else has expertise in 238 00:14:39,300 --> 00:14:43,600 Brandon marketing and they really and they are looking for 239 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:49,600 guidance and they're very open and it's just it's just really 240 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,800 fun and because often that, you know, you're working with 241 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,400 Partners. They are decision makers right? 242 00:14:55,500 --> 00:14:58,800 And so that's It's really I find. 243 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:00,800 It's something that's quite magical for me. 244 00:15:01,700 --> 00:15:06,300 But anyway, what we started doing and using my design 245 00:15:06,300 --> 00:15:08,900 criticism degree, is we started writing. 246 00:15:09,300 --> 00:15:16,900 And so we publish probably at least two articles, a month on 247 00:15:16,900 --> 00:15:20,400 our website that are really targeted to the issues that 248 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:24,700 either a financial services company or a law firm may be 249 00:15:26,100 --> 00:15:31,700 grappling with And so oftentimes now because of that Focus, that 250 00:15:31,700 --> 00:15:35,700 when people contact us, they're contacting us specifically for 251 00:15:35,700 --> 00:15:38,700 that expertise. So they may not understand how 252 00:15:38,700 --> 00:15:42,100 the sausage gets made. But they see that we've worked 253 00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:46,200 with maybe their competitors soon and it's allowed you to 254 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,500 arise as a thought, leader, as a thought. 255 00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:50,400 Leader. I'm very focused area. 256 00:15:50,900 --> 00:15:54,200 Yeah, and, you know, when you really start to dive into a 257 00:15:54,208 --> 00:15:57,500 particular industry and you start to understand the That 258 00:15:57,500 --> 00:16:01,800 they have it just becomes more. I find it becomes more and more 259 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:07,100 interesting because you just you encounter something new and then 260 00:16:07,100 --> 00:16:10,200 you know that because of your experience, you know how to deal 261 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,200 with it and it just that expertise just keeps growing all 262 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,900 the time. So what I love, what's wonderful 263 00:16:16,900 --> 00:16:20,200 about your Viewpoint in areas. You've, if I can just interject 264 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:24,200 these words, it's you've curated, not only your practice, 265 00:16:24,900 --> 00:16:27,100 but then your portfolio of clients. 266 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,800 It's as well. Yeah, and you have those, you've 267 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,200 taken the time to grow in which the resources and skills that 268 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,700 you offer match nicely with the group. 269 00:16:36,100 --> 00:16:40,000 So I we're looking at it, you know, at the more mature space 270 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,300 in here. I love to talk about the messy 271 00:16:42,300 --> 00:16:44,400 part at the beginning of that. Oh, yeah. 272 00:16:44,900 --> 00:16:49,800 So give us some guidance on how have you had times when you've 273 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:54,400 had to gently let down a client or fire your clients. 274 00:16:55,500 --> 00:16:58,500 In a space because it's not a good fit, you know, no one ever 275 00:16:58,500 --> 00:16:59,900 wants to talk about that part of it. 276 00:16:59,900 --> 00:17:05,099 We're we're it may not be a good fit for what you're doing for 277 00:17:05,099 --> 00:17:08,599 them. Yeah, you know, it has not 278 00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:12,800 happened that often but it has certainly happened and there was 279 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:18,400 one time early when the first maybe two years of my firm and I 280 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,900 had done a project for an architect and it was really a, 281 00:17:22,900 --> 00:17:25,099 you know, the whole thing. Came out. 282 00:17:25,099 --> 00:17:26,599 Great. Everything was wonderful. 283 00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:30,000 He was really happy, and then we were doing more and more 284 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,000 projects for this particular architect. 285 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:37,500 And then, at one point, his assistant had taken over a lot 286 00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:41,700 of the interactions with my firm and she was really mean. 287 00:17:41,700 --> 00:17:47,200 And then at one point, she made one of my designers cry and this 288 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,400 was a young man. I mean, so it wasn't like, you 289 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,000 know, where you'd say. Oh was you know it, you know, a 290 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,900 fragile girl. Or something like that. 291 00:17:55,900 --> 00:17:59,200 I mean, you know, it was a, you know, tough kid. 292 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,700 And so, anyway, I had to call him and just say, you know, I'm 293 00:18:03,700 --> 00:18:08,600 really sorry. We, you know, this person is 294 00:18:08,900 --> 00:18:14,200 just she's been so abusive and then finally today she made, you 295 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:19,100 know, my designer cry you. This can't, we can't keep doing 296 00:18:19,100 --> 00:18:21,800 this and, you know, and I had spoken to her a few times where 297 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,900 I was like, you know, look, you know, you really need to When 298 00:18:24,900 --> 00:18:27,800 you interact with us, it needs to be in a different way and she 299 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,400 just didn't care. And I said we just can't work 300 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,500 with you anymore. And he was just sort of like 301 00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:35,900 what do you mean? And I said we can't work with 302 00:18:35,900 --> 00:18:42,100 you and and he was, he was pretty flabbergasted. 303 00:18:42,100 --> 00:18:44,800 And then there was another time where I had a client who had 304 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,600 done, he did some terrible things, like he had decided that 305 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,500 he wasn't that he had lowered the bill of an estimate, he had 306 00:18:51,500 --> 00:18:56,900 signed and And then he just had decided he was going to 307 00:18:56,900 --> 00:18:59,800 renegotiate the bill with me after the fact and I said, but 308 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,400 you approve this cost before we did the work. 309 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,000 And then and that was another client that I said. 310 00:19:05,100 --> 00:19:08,000 I'm really sorry. You know what, we can't work 311 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,200 with you again. Now on the flip side of that are 312 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,400 their clients that you've actively sought out and said, 313 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,700 you know, I think that Decker would be a good fit for what 314 00:19:19,700 --> 00:19:23,200 they need in the marketplace. Well, you know, we're always 315 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,700 actively looking. Going there was so for a period 316 00:19:27,700 --> 00:19:31,800 of time. We did we did work for a 317 00:19:31,808 --> 00:19:34,700 non-profit in the city called The Waterfront Alliance. 318 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:39,000 Okay, and I knew at the then director. 319 00:19:39,500 --> 00:19:43,500 I knew pretty well from his other work that he had done at 320 00:19:43,500 --> 00:19:45,200 Habitat for Humanity, in New York. 321 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,700 And I had just finished my design criticism program. 322 00:19:49,100 --> 00:19:53,400 And part of my research when I was in that program was 323 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:59,100 Hurricane. Sandy had happened to York and I 324 00:19:59,500 --> 00:20:03,700 was really interested in exploring Urban resiliency 325 00:20:03,700 --> 00:20:05,800 particularly as a social justice issue. 326 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:14,700 And so I they needed a new brand and website and all sorts of 327 00:20:14,700 --> 00:20:16,800 things and had extremely limited budget. 328 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:21,100 And I really I went to Roland and I had sent to him. 329 00:20:21,100 --> 00:20:25,200 You know what, there is no designer who Who is going to be 330 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,600 more passionate about this project than I am and you should 331 00:20:29,100 --> 00:20:33,700 know you should work with us on this and we had for the time 332 00:20:33,700 --> 00:20:37,000 that Rowland was still, the director of that organization. 333 00:20:37,700 --> 00:20:45,200 We had a fantastic relationship. Oh, wow, so elevate your 334 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:50,700 difference. So how hard is it to come up 335 00:20:50,700 --> 00:20:53,600 with your own branding for your own space? 336 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,700 It's like, I know I love to ask that. 337 00:20:56,700 --> 00:21:00,600 Question of designers in entrepreneurs and other spaces, 338 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,800 especially when we do this work for other people, art is client 339 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,100 ever. It's brutal and it's just 340 00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:12,300 brutal. I You know, so in the interest 341 00:21:12,300 --> 00:21:16,400 at or I'm continually researching ways to educate 342 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:21,200 myself there is there's a really terrific online business 343 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,800 resources called section 4 and it was founded by Scott Galloway 344 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:30,500 who is an NYU professor, and I highly recommend his podcast and 345 00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:32,700 he does a great podcast with Kara Swisher. 346 00:21:33,100 --> 00:21:36,500 So he he has all of these educational Sprints and I 347 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,000 recently took a storytelling Sprint. 348 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,700 Okay, and I It to do because I was thinking, okay. 349 00:21:41,700 --> 00:21:44,500 I need to come up with a, you know, what is the Decker Design 350 00:21:44,500 --> 00:21:49,400 Story? And I could not do it. 351 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,800 It was just I finished the project but it was terrible. 352 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:58,900 But I met a writer who is in my group and and I said to her 353 00:21:59,100 --> 00:22:01,700 okay, I need some help. How, you know, can I hire you to 354 00:22:01,700 --> 00:22:05,400 help me and I think that it is certain point that you need to 355 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,000 understand that there are certain skills that you don't 356 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,700 have and that maybe you need to To seek out a professional to 357 00:22:11,700 --> 00:22:16,400 help, you know, help bring it to the next level and it's fun. 358 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,500 I also find that you, you learn even more about what your 359 00:22:20,500 --> 00:22:24,000 clients experience, you have to put yourself through that and 360 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,700 having that objective third, party partner is really is 361 00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:32,100 really great in that space. But yeah, so you classically 362 00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:34,300 though to find yourself as a strategy. 363 00:22:34,300 --> 00:22:37,000 Driven design agency. Yes. 364 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,700 I love that because you're putting it. 365 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,800 Up front and center that this is about strategy and and desire. 366 00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:48,000 You know, when you work with your clients, how are you able 367 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,700 to reinforce the part that it is the critical thinking and 368 00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:55,000 planning that enforces the design work as well. 369 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,400 Well that comes through in the first phone call that I have 370 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,700 with people and where they'll say. 371 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,500 Oh, we really love your work. You know, we love like they'll 372 00:23:05,500 --> 00:23:09,200 always say, oh we love how such-and-such looks. 373 00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:13,300 And I'll say that is fantastic. I'm really glad that you love 374 00:23:13,300 --> 00:23:18,500 how it looks, but let me explain to you how it got there and that 375 00:23:18,900 --> 00:23:25,200 this, you know a few years ago, maybe 10 15, maybe 15 years ago. 376 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,300 We were more apt to allow a client to say, well, I don't 377 00:23:29,300 --> 00:23:32,900 want to pay for that and now it's just, I think it's like the 378 00:23:32,900 --> 00:23:35,600 confidence that you develop over time, right? 379 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:41,400 Where you say to somebody. You don't get see without a. 380 00:23:41,500 --> 00:23:45,200 You have to go to a, b and c. You have to follow the process. 381 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,800 If we take one part of the process out, it will the project 382 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,900 will fail. And so this is what it is. 383 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,600 And and this is what and I'm also really upfront. 384 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,400 Now with people about fees where I'll just say, you know, what 385 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,900 are you know, the work that we do tends to range from X to y. 386 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,100 Let me know if that, you know, are you comfortable? 387 00:24:10,100 --> 00:24:11,900 Like, does that work with your budget? 388 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,400 Because sometimes people will contact us and, you know, I 389 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,800 never want to assume something, but you kind of have a feeling 390 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,800 that they probably are. Not at a point where they can 391 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,900 invest a certain amount with us. And we've just found that if we 392 00:24:27,900 --> 00:24:31,400 try to do something at, you know, a lower price, the 393 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,300 quality, like we just can't pull it off. 394 00:24:33,300 --> 00:24:35,700 We end up losing money on it because we don't want the 395 00:24:35,708 --> 00:24:37,500 quality to suffer. And then we end up. 396 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,800 More time on the job and it's like, well, we're not a 397 00:24:40,808 --> 00:24:44,700 non-profit. So, you know, we're not here to, 398 00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:48,700 you know, serve, as you know, these people, these smaller 399 00:24:48,700 --> 00:24:52,500 companies that they just don't have the budget allocated that 400 00:24:52,500 --> 00:24:57,000 they can do it. So, so when we think about this 401 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,800 in kind of a role of being moving from being the designer, 402 00:25:01,300 --> 00:25:05,700 to being the kind of senior designer in a, in a burton 403 00:25:05,700 --> 00:25:09,100 Enterprise to being the head of Of your design firm. 404 00:25:09,700 --> 00:25:13,200 Where do you not now find inspiration for the work 405 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:14,900 everyday? Well, I'm tired. 406 00:25:14,900 --> 00:25:17,900 You getting up every day. I, you know, I think it's just 407 00:25:17,900 --> 00:25:23,700 inspiration is everywhere. You know, it's really wonderful 408 00:25:23,700 --> 00:25:26,800 that the Museum's have opened up again in New York. 409 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,400 Yeah, that is, you know, that's tremendously. 410 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:36,500 Wonderful for visual, you know, just to see things that are 411 00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:40,800 different from the Every day, but I also love watching people 412 00:25:40,900 --> 00:25:45,100 on the street. I mean, that to me is just poke 413 00:25:45,100 --> 00:25:49,900 a stick, you know, our office is at Fifth Avenue and 23rd Street. 414 00:25:49,900 --> 00:25:53,300 So, we're right by Madison Square Park and it's such an 415 00:25:53,300 --> 00:25:58,300 intersection of humanity where, you know, you get people who are 416 00:25:58,308 --> 00:26:02,900 going to like the LEGO store or Harry Potter. 417 00:26:02,900 --> 00:26:05,900 You get people who are who live in the neighborhood? 418 00:26:05,900 --> 00:26:07,400 It would just out walking their dog. 419 00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:09,900 Dogs. You get people who are going to 420 00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:14,200 offices and the people watching is just fantastic. 421 00:26:14,900 --> 00:26:18,000 So, that's one thing that is really wonderful about New York. 422 00:26:18,300 --> 00:26:21,700 I read a lot. I listen to podcasts. 423 00:26:23,300 --> 00:26:29,100 I am a News Junkie and, you know, so I try to find 424 00:26:29,100 --> 00:26:32,300 inspiration in May, if there are many different channels. 425 00:26:32,900 --> 00:26:35,900 Well, it's interesting. So, first of all, you had me at 426 00:26:35,900 --> 00:26:37,400 Lego store. So yes. 427 00:26:37,900 --> 00:26:42,100 I'm gonna make my favorite spaces, but it's interesting it, 428 00:26:42,100 --> 00:26:43,900 you know, for those who are watching and listening. 429 00:26:43,900 --> 00:26:47,500 I want to full disclosure. That's the base in New York City 430 00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:50,700 proper, but we're having our conversation today from outside 431 00:26:50,700 --> 00:26:51,900 of the city. Correct. 432 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,100 Correct? Yes. 433 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:58,000 So, how have you been able to balance the kind of environment 434 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:03,400 of the office in the city? And then a remote space as both 435 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:08,900 kind of creative inputs. Well, you know, I think our team 436 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:14,300 miraculously, when we had to go to remote in March of 2020. 437 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,800 We started out, we we experimented with how many times 438 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,200 a day we were going to interact with each other and then we 439 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,200 found that the best combination when we were all remote was to 440 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:32,500 have a 15-minute meeting in the morning and a another 15 minutes 441 00:27:32,500 --> 00:27:35,600 at the end of the day. So nice wrap things up. 442 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,700 And a lot of times those me. Things are more like people 443 00:27:38,700 --> 00:27:42,000 talking, about house, maybe something in the news or, you 444 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:47,800 know, it's really more about us interacting as human beings as 445 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,600 opposed to a lot. There's some project management 446 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,200 stuff in there, but for the most part, it's about connecting with 447 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,900 your colleagues. So, when we decided to go back 448 00:27:57,900 --> 00:28:02,100 to the office, in March of this year, we can't ride last fall. 449 00:28:02,100 --> 00:28:06,300 And then when the I think was just right after Thanksgiving, 450 00:28:06,300 --> 00:28:09,700 we went back to remote. From December to about early 451 00:28:09,700 --> 00:28:13,300 March and then we're back in the office. 452 00:28:13,300 --> 00:28:16,300 And so we're Monday Tuesday, Wednesday in the New York 453 00:28:16,300 --> 00:28:19,300 office. And that's when we have most of 454 00:28:19,300 --> 00:28:23,300 our like, really collaboration when we know we have sort of 455 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,500 problems that we have to solve together. 456 00:28:26,700 --> 00:28:30,200 And then we, you know, where we can gather in our conference 457 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,700 room and, you know, just put stuff up on the walls and do all 458 00:28:33,700 --> 00:28:37,100 the kind of stuff that, you know, people have been doing for 459 00:28:37,100 --> 00:28:37,900 decades. Shades together. 460 00:28:37,900 --> 00:28:42,000 And then we try to sort of hold Thursday and Friday for those 461 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,800 days that eat for people to do more deep work. 462 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,900 So that we feel like if we're remote, then you know, it's, you 463 00:28:48,900 --> 00:28:51,000 know, each person is probably quieter. 464 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:56,200 They can they can really concentrate that way but the 465 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,200 office is always available to anybody it like. 466 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,100 So somebody says, you know, I'm going to go to the office on 467 00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:03,800 Thursday. It's totally fine. 468 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,800 It's there and you know, everybody has access to it and 469 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,400 the equipment that's There is where, you know, thinking about 470 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,500 your business today. And as you are building and 471 00:29:13,500 --> 00:29:16,900 designing it, what? What's one thing you wish you 472 00:29:16,900 --> 00:29:20,300 had known when you start it. So not day one. 473 00:29:20,300 --> 00:29:21,400 I yeah, I'll give you some space. 474 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,600 Maybe year five. What what's one thing you wish 475 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,600 you had known as a as a Studio owner. 476 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:34,700 I wish I had really understood the concept of that when you are 477 00:29:34,700 --> 00:29:38,000 the when you are the leader of the business, you You really 478 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:43,900 can't, you can't physically do projects because even though 479 00:29:43,900 --> 00:29:48,800 like probably at your five, I would still work on specific 480 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:53,300 projects and I think it compromised, my ability to be a 481 00:29:53,300 --> 00:29:58,300 good objective leader. And it probably compromised our 482 00:29:58,300 --> 00:30:01,100 ability to grow as well. And I wish I had really 483 00:30:01,100 --> 00:30:07,800 understood that I shouldn't be physically designing things at 484 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:12,500 that point, that it was time to sort of step back hire people 485 00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:16,600 who were fantastic and then guide and coach and guide them 486 00:30:16,700 --> 00:30:20,100 to learn that, you know, the role of a great leader is really 487 00:30:20,100 --> 00:30:24,600 more being like a coach and to help people grow in there. 488 00:30:24,900 --> 00:30:28,800 In their roles so that they can sort of see the next level for 489 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,400 themselves either. Because this, we were talking, 490 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,800 it's like craft like when you go to work in a small firm, it is 491 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:40,600 an opportunity to accelerate your career in a certain sense 492 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,200 because in a small place you kind of have to do everything 493 00:30:44,500 --> 00:30:47,200 and there's a good chance you may end up getting assigned a 494 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,600 project. That is so big, right? 495 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,200 He might not get that in a bigger firm because it would go 496 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:58,000 to someone where senior so in a All firm, that's the opportunity 497 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,900 and then, you know and then if your boss is a good coach and 498 00:31:02,900 --> 00:31:06,700 helps you to see like, oh, I'm now at a stage in my career 499 00:31:06,700 --> 00:31:09,300 where I'm going to direct the intern. 500 00:31:09,300 --> 00:31:12,800 Maybe I'm going to learn how to supervise another person. 501 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:17,400 I'm going to learn how to teach skills to another individual and 502 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:21,500 then, you know, and help people to move along that pathway so 503 00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:25,700 that they can be leaders. I wish I knew Ooh, that five 504 00:31:25,700 --> 00:31:30,000 years in. And to put a different focus on 505 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:34,200 those questions in there. What advice do you give to other 506 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,600 young women who are looking to take on these leadership roles, 507 00:31:39,500 --> 00:31:45,100 you know, I touched on this earlier and being a woman in 508 00:31:45,500 --> 00:31:50,200 business, I think is there are challenges that men do not have 509 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:55,000 to deal with and I think trust and competency like having 510 00:31:55,000 --> 00:32:00,200 people believe in your Nancy is such, it's so much more 511 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,600 challenging. I was listening to Adam Grant 512 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:09,200 the other day, who is had a podcast and he was talking about 513 00:32:09,700 --> 00:32:13,500 pitches. And so he had a young woman on 514 00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:20,200 the podcast who had a tech company, and he was coaching her 515 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,000 about her pitch, and one of the issues that they brought up. 516 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,400 And I'm sitting there is like, oh God, I can't believe I'm 517 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:31,900 hearing this, was that, you know, for a woman who is in, 518 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,600 say, a new business pitch or you know, pitching to investors if 519 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:42,000 she smiles a lot and she's warm and friendly, she's interpreted 520 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:49,000 as having less competence. Wow, and, you know, and I can't 521 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,800 tell you how many times did someone will say to me, you're 522 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,600 too serious. You should smile more, you know, 523 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,100 and then you go into a meeting and, you know, it It's like you 524 00:32:57,100 --> 00:33:01,000 should and apparently like you shouldn't be super enthusiastic 525 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:06,000 because that makes people think that you are that you don't know 526 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,700 what you're doing. We're for a man. 527 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,800 He needs to smile and be enthusiastic and that's like 528 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,600 he's warm and friendly, I mean the, you know, the 529 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:21,000 contradictions are crazy and you know how it's like, oh if you're 530 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,700 tough, you're a bitch, you know, if you're nice you're you know, 531 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,800 people can walk all over you. I mean, it's just like it's it 532 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:33,900 is so difficult for women and I don't know if any of us really 533 00:33:33,900 --> 00:33:36,500 have the answer to that but I think it's just like it's 534 00:33:36,500 --> 00:33:40,600 something to be aware of like you just need to acknowledge 535 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:46,300 that a lot of times things are going to be more difficult. 536 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:52,300 Now that said many of my clients now are women and when I started 537 00:33:52,300 --> 00:33:55,700 my business it was going to ask you about that was gonna ask you 538 00:33:55,708 --> 00:33:57,300 about that King. In terms of the arc and 539 00:33:57,300 --> 00:34:00,600 especially the focus on, you know, financial services and 540 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,200 legal services areas in there. Have you seen a rise in change 541 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,900 in leadership in the space? Where your for your clients? 542 00:34:08,900 --> 00:34:11,699 Oh, yeah. Are you working with more women 543 00:34:11,699 --> 00:34:14,800 as leaders? More women as leaders and then 544 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,400 and I can't tell you how many times where we'll have a 545 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,100 conversation and it'll be a new business conversation and then 546 00:34:21,100 --> 00:34:25,800 it will come out that some guy, mansplain them and how man they 547 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,300 are. That like something from some 548 00:34:28,300 --> 00:34:30,600 agency. He's just going to come in and 549 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:35,699 tell them everything and they're just outraged by the attitude 550 00:34:36,100 --> 00:34:39,800 and then like yeah, I know I've been there and so like so in a 551 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:45,300 certain sense there is, what did not exist, previously there. 552 00:34:45,300 --> 00:34:51,199 I think there's more camaraderie and I think that often women and 553 00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:53,500 I don't want him and I don't want to make this as, you know, 554 00:34:53,500 --> 00:34:57,600 a blanket assumption, but I do think that sometimes, There are 555 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,200 there's empathy for the situation that we are all faced 556 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:05,300 with. So when I think about all the 557 00:35:05,300 --> 00:35:08,700 skills that you bring to the table as a designer, and now 558 00:35:08,700 --> 00:35:13,800 those as an executive leader, do you find that some of your 559 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:18,500 training as a designer helps you navigate and strengthen these 560 00:35:18,500 --> 00:35:21,500 connections with your clients and spaces? 561 00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:24,500 As I kind of hear you listening through there about listening 562 00:35:24,500 --> 00:35:26,400 and engaging and some of the things we talked about. 563 00:35:26,900 --> 00:35:28,500 Kind of core training as a designer. 564 00:35:29,500 --> 00:35:33,800 Have you been able to pull those skills in to navigating these 565 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,700 executive orders? Yeah, you know, I think 566 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:42,300 designers by Nature have like I'm very good at pattern 567 00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:44,700 recognition. And I think that designers have 568 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:50,300 that skill gets developed early on and so that does help me with 569 00:35:51,100 --> 00:35:55,100 when I'm working with clients, especially in the early stages 570 00:35:55,100 --> 00:35:58,200 where we're developing. Tajiri, where I will hear the 571 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:02,400 same statements and I'm really sensitive to that tearing the 572 00:36:02,408 --> 00:36:04,200 same thing is repeated over and over. 573 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:10,500 So and you know, I'm I've always been the kind of person that 574 00:36:10,500 --> 00:36:14,600 like you could put like this big messy thing in front of me and 575 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,700 then I come up. Oh, here's what it's supposed to 576 00:36:16,700 --> 00:36:19,000 be and like, rearrange all the parts. 577 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,100 Like I used to, when I was a kid. 578 00:36:23,100 --> 00:36:28,200 I used to put bicycles together. So Like, I really wanted. 579 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:35,500 I wanted a ten-speed. Okay, so I know this now is this 580 00:36:35,500 --> 00:36:37,800 bicycle building? We have never talked about this. 581 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,500 Okay? Building, basically great. 582 00:36:40,500 --> 00:36:43,800 I wanted. I wanted a ten-speed bike and my 583 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:48,200 father said no and but I had, I had graduated from parochial 584 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:52,300 school and my, some of my relatives gave me some money. 585 00:36:52,700 --> 00:36:56,400 And so I talked my mother into taking me to one of the local 586 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,700 store. Is and it was, it was this place 587 00:36:59,700 --> 00:37:03,200 called The Times Square store. So it was a cheap place and you 588 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,200 when you got the bike, it came in a box. 589 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:09,100 It wasn't assembled. And all of the directions were 590 00:37:09,100 --> 00:37:14,700 in maybe Japanese or Korean. I don't know it, but there were 591 00:37:14,700 --> 00:37:18,400 no directions in English or anything you have pictures. 592 00:37:19,100 --> 00:37:23,400 No, it had to put all of the I just, I was so determined 593 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,700 because my father was like I said, no, and you defied me. 594 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:28,900 And I was like, well, you know, that's kind of what I do. 595 00:37:29,100 --> 00:37:33,400 And so I had all the parts in the backyard and then very 596 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,500 gradually. I figured out how everything 597 00:37:35,500 --> 00:37:39,600 went together, and I put the put the damn bike together and I 598 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,300 just with one pair of pliers, because I didn't have any other 599 00:37:42,300 --> 00:37:45,400 tools that I could find around the house and I did it. 600 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:49,400 I put the bike together. You know, what's wonderful. 601 00:37:50,100 --> 00:37:54,000 That is that story is just such a metaphor for you and what 602 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,700 you've built with Decker desire, you came. 603 00:37:56,900 --> 00:38:02,500 And it started off from being the, the unhappy employee, you 604 00:38:02,500 --> 00:38:05,500 know, outside of the company in there and taking all the parts 605 00:38:05,500 --> 00:38:09,100 and pieces with no directions know it. 606 00:38:09,100 --> 00:38:11,500 But you knew you wanted a bike, right? 607 00:38:11,500 --> 00:38:14,000 And you continue to refine and build this set. 608 00:38:14,500 --> 00:38:19,500 And now you have if Built This Magnificent bike and I can't be, 609 00:38:19,700 --> 00:38:21,200 I have to say it. I tell you all the time. 610 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,800 I'm incredibly proud of the journey you continue to take and 611 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,900 the work that you do as an Sample for those, in our 612 00:38:27,900 --> 00:38:29,900 community to see that it is possible. 613 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,900 I cannot believe you built the bike with cheap parts and 614 00:38:34,900 --> 00:38:39,700 pieces, but it is so much. It is so much you and mystery in 615 00:38:39,700 --> 00:38:42,300 there. And so I want to give you a 616 00:38:42,300 --> 00:38:46,100 moment to to say to get the last word in on. 617 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,500 What do you think about our messy future? 618 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,600 I know you like to make things better that are messing. 619 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,300 What do you what do you think the role of design and design 620 00:38:56,300 --> 00:38:58,300 business? Can be in terms of making a 621 00:38:58,300 --> 00:39:07,500 better future. Oh gosh, you know I guess really 622 00:39:07,500 --> 00:39:11,000 what we're seeing going on in our society right now. 623 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,100 There's so many different ways that design can contribute. 624 00:39:16,100 --> 00:39:22,600 I think in particular, Health Care is a huge information in 625 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,300 healthcare. I think is a huge, huge place, 626 00:39:26,900 --> 00:39:30,300 you know, before we got on the call you and I were talking 627 00:39:30,300 --> 00:39:32,800 about when We had our last conversation I had said to you 628 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:37,100 that I I wasn't feeling well today that we had talked and I 629 00:39:37,100 --> 00:39:41,600 got covid. My husband got covid and even 630 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:46,700 though we were both vaccinated, he got very sick and we we went 631 00:39:46,700 --> 00:39:52,700 on a journey to find out what to do and to get pecs pecs lobbied 632 00:39:52,700 --> 00:39:58,700 for him and it was so difficult, you know, just like finding out 633 00:39:58,700 --> 00:40:04,500 basic information. In terms of health care. 634 00:40:04,500 --> 00:40:07,800 Now, we're so, you know, we were to I'm out in Montauk right now 635 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,000 and here in the East End of Long Island in the winter. 636 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,400 There's a really a dearth of health care services. 637 00:40:14,700 --> 00:40:19,100 So, you know, we called around we call to the local hospital. 638 00:40:19,100 --> 00:40:20,800 They were like, I don't even know what that is. 639 00:40:21,100 --> 00:40:27,000 And so anyway, we had to we went on this incredible journey to 640 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,400 try and figure out how we could get him this medication. 641 00:40:30,900 --> 00:40:36,500 Eventually got it, but it was an entire eight-hour, day of 642 00:40:36,500 --> 00:40:39,800 research and driving to try and find it. 643 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:44,900 And, you know, Healthcare it mean, when you think about like, 644 00:40:45,100 --> 00:40:48,800 we're middle class people, like it shouldn't be that hard. 645 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,700 How bad is it for somebody who has many more economic 646 00:40:52,700 --> 00:40:54,300 challenges? Right me. 647 00:40:54,300 --> 00:40:59,300 It's just unconscionable. So I think You know, if I were 648 00:40:59,300 --> 00:41:04,100 going to pick one place, I would really want to reform and 649 00:41:04,100 --> 00:41:09,000 centralize all the information about health care and how to get 650 00:41:09,100 --> 00:41:14,100 services in two places and two people who can't get it because 651 00:41:14,100 --> 00:41:16,200 I think it's just a national tragedy. 652 00:41:18,500 --> 00:41:22,600 And I think on that note. We'll end our Fireside today 653 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:32,600 with strategist, business owner, bicycle maker futurist, you 654 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:38,400 know, designer turned CEO, which you are probably already a CEO 655 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,900 before. Thank you, Linda for being here. 656 00:41:41,900 --> 00:41:46,300 Thank you for sharing and such a passionate and candid way your 657 00:41:46,300 --> 00:41:49,000 journey through design and business. 658 00:41:49,300 --> 00:41:53,100 And I also have To point out, Linda promise me that I achieve 659 00:41:53,100 --> 00:41:56,600 would have the coolest Fireside background for me ever. 660 00:41:56,700 --> 00:42:00,600 So if you notice, there are three incredibly groovy lava 661 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,600 lamps, which are my digital Fireside for today. 662 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,000 So, thank you all for joining us. 663 00:42:06,300 --> 00:42:09,300 Thank you. Linda for being here and 664 00:42:09,300 --> 00:42:12,300 everyone enjoy the rest of our design and business conference 665 00:42:12,500 --> 00:42:14,700 continue to create boldly. Thank you.