Welcome to AI GA s fireside chat.
This is the final day of the 2022.
Aiga design, a business conference.
Thank you for joining us for this Fireside.
And for the conference before we begin our fireside chat.
Please connect with us and share your thoughts, the hashtags for
this events are aiga design and aiga DB conf.
Now, it is my pleasure to welcome Benny up, Johnson a
ideas executive director and today's guest one.
Dedecker, president and creative director of Decker design,
Benny. Greetings, everyone and Welcome
to our third and final fireside chat for this year's aiga design
and business conference, you know, over the past few days.
We've been exploring. This intersection that space
between design and business business and design and the
design of business, you know, all of the areas in which we see
growth and an opportunity for you as design professionals.
Business Leaders agency is Studio owners and those involved
in the growth of our contemporary design, practice to
see the power of these connections for building a
better workplace, better Solutions and better Futures
today. I am really delighted to bring a
fellow business owner to our table, to bring one, the one,
and only Linda Decker president and creative director of Decker
designs. It was 27. 26 years ago now that
you started on this journey to become your own business owner
and I could go into deeper bio, but I'd rather have us just jump
into the conversation Linda because that's a great way to
start. Yeah.
I need six years ago. Yeah, we decided that something
was going to be different. I did I was, I would say a
malcontent employee. Sorry talk about it.
I've been that employee to. So just you're in Space.
Well, you know, I was working, I've worked in ad agencies and
I've worked for design firms. And I always, I was always
observing how they ran their business, because I always
wanted my own business. And in my last position I was, I
was a particularly malcontent. The Firm was was not run very
well and I had a very good friend in Chicago, who had been
running his own business for a number of years.
And and in the snowstorm of 1996, it was like called the
like Storm of the Century, right?
We had dinner in the middle of a blizzard and he basically told
me that he was absolutely sick of hearing me complain about my
job and I better make plans to start my own business because if
he could do it, I could do it too, which is it's not really
true. But but the motivation that you
need it, right? Exactly, exactly.
And then On top of it, which was wonderful.
Was that he offered to Mentor me in that journey and help me
anytime. I needed help.
And and that is, its shout out to Steve Liska in Chicago.
And Steve has always been there every single time that like
something happened and I would call and say, I don't know how
to deal with this, and he helped me through a lot of those early
days with lots of advice. What were the things that
shocked you? Those first couple of months
when you came in to starting your own business, you know, it
was mostly human behavior. I think that was the hardest
thing. It was sometimes whether it was
employees like you would, you know, at that point I was hiring
interns. And then I'd always be shocked,
like someone would work with me for a few months.
And, you know, this is not to say I was not a very
well-trained manager. I Say, relatively early in my
career and people would suddenly leave or they just wouldn't show
up or a client would make a mistake.
Like so when I started my business that was you know,
print was really the thing, you would send a job to a printer
and you know, things were thousands of dollars and
thousands and tens of thousands of dollars for printing.
And the client would have made a mistake.
They'd call me up screaming and they want me to I pay for fixing
it. Right?
And it was it was horrifying because I certainly was in no
position and you know where it's like you're working for City,
someone from like Citigroup, and you're just like, I'm Linda
Decker. Your secret.
Like, why are you, why are you loading this on me?
And it's your mistake, you know, and so those were some of the
things that really shocked me was was the need to have
contracts and to be able to wear your Agreements ahead of time.
Like, I already said that people would be good people and they're
not always sometimes something sometimes they aren't.
But one of the things we know is that as you mentioned, one of
our most downloaded resources of aiga, are the contracts.
Yeah, and, you know, contracts, give people who intend to be
good. A roadmap on how to behave,
right? I didn't mean that's when we
think about it. We've all had those business
conversations, where they're good.
People either side but there's kind of a misunderstanding of
where we need to be. Hmm.
And you're right. We just take a step back.
If you're a major corporation, you're the one solopreneur
eating the cost of printing is a life-or-death conversation for
you as a small business, right? And that was, you know, trying
to get paid and sometimes people holding up payment, those were
really difficult situations where you know, when you're, you
know, at the time when you start and your, as you said a
solopreneur and your In to bring people on, you know, as you
start to take those steps to bring other people onto your
team. Then you realize like you're
responsible for somebody else's life and you know, and then some
client is holding up payment for, you know, for some I
remember somebody holding up a payment for stock photos.
And I don't even remember what the issue was that he had.
But I remember having to have a really long conversation with As
man in order to get him to pay his bill and then finally he
agreed to and I got to check the next day, but it was some of the
times it was harrowing, right? And so when did you, when did
you have that moment that you looked around and realize you
were running a business? When did it really sink in?
Maybe on April 13th when you? And I had the conversation?
Then you wanted me to participate in this fireside.
Chat is awesome. And that's exactly why we
wouldn't be a part of his fireside chat.
So you've been, you know, running your design shopping,
you do incredible work, that impacts top-notch companies and
organizations and you've been doing it for 26 years.
Yeah, which is, you know, no small feat for for small
business and it's you know, one of the one of the reasons I was
excited to talk to you as well. Well about your just attitude
and energy and resilience in managing this business for that
time period. How have you seen your role as
an independent creative shop? Transform over the last 20
years. Oh gosh, it has transformed
tremendously, you know, when when I started the business, as
I had sent you just before it was very print-based and there
were, you know, and at that time in the late 90s, So, you know,
the internet was starting to be a thing.
It was nowhere, you know, websites were nowhere, what they
are now? And, you know, it was so much
work. There was so, there were so many
print projects and I built my client base by picking up the
phone and literally cold calling people and that was a time where
people did actually answer them to the phone and you built a
business around that. Wow.
Yeah. And I had to, I can't tell you
how much I had to Steel myself for that because sometimes some
people would be horrible and really rude and other times
people have been like yeah, I need somebody wanted to come on
in like there was just so much work that people needed
designers to do that work and the projects were not
necessarily all that big and so they didn't feel like they were
risking their careers now. So many, so many projects,
especially the ones that we do are fairly substantial and they
On for, you know, a year and a half or two and, you know, and
people are really nervous when they're making that decision
because they have a, their career is on the line.
You know, when I started it was just sort of like, oh, can you
do this for sure? Yeah.
Sure. I can do that.
So in that space, how do you strengthen your role as a
credible resource? Thank you for coming in and and
the person on the other side, this matters more than more
right there. This is their career space in
there. How do you kind of steal them to
your incredible resource? Well, I you know, I think you
know that goes to something that you were speaking with Katrina
about the other day on Wednesday, and she was talking
about how designers over index on crafts and you know what we
were saying earlier and I said to you, it's a conversation that
is sort of yes, and if it over indexing on Craft is wonderful
when you are Just starting your career because that gives you a
Runway. It gives you an entree into say,
a firm like mine or say like a firm like Michaels, you know, at
pentagram every single young designer has index very highly
on crafts at pentagram. But over indexing, on Craft
eventually holds you back. And so really, in terms of my
journey. I had to learn and really
educate myself on the other. Ex of business over time because
otherwise I was not credible. The, you know, and then the
other issue that, you know, we should probably touch upon is
gender. And the role of women in
business because the rules are a bit different for women and all
of this and in terms of building trust, so getting back to over
time, I really started reading, you know, in terms of business.
I'm pretty, I'm really I've, you know, read a lot of different
business books. If there is a, you know, a
seminar I'll participate in it, even if it's a topic that I
think I already know very well. I'll just see if there's
something else, you know that I can learn from it.
So I'm always curious and always always open to learning and then
also back in 2012. I went back to school.
I went to School of Visual Arts to get a masters in.
Design criticism. Because I felt that I needed to
improve my critical thinking and writing skills.
Okay, so I was just like, I was probably at the time like one of
the oldest students in the program, but it was running a
business and doing a full-time master's program was insane.
I will just say that right now, right?
But but, but in the land of the same, that's right, so, So let
me think about that. But this is this commitment in
reinvestment in yourself. Yeah, people can see that.
Even if you're running a business Enterprise, there's
still opportunity for that for that growth, in this faith in
there. And you have to, because if you
look at the way, the design industry has changed since the
late 90s, we started out as a heavily print base.
And now where we are is very, you know, heavily digital and
non-digital Brands. And, you know, I think Think
branding has never been as big as it is right.
Now, you know, if I think back to, you know, when I started my
career in the design industry or even back to when you know, in
the 90s they were these giant binders that were created and it
was, there were only a few firms.
And it wasn't, it was called corporate identity.
It wasn't even called branding. And if you were talking about a
brand, that was something more that like, Procter & Gamble was
doing. We're talking about it that.
Yeah, but that was my entry into brand.
It was partnering Gamble and, you know, creating the brand and
the brand Management program there for me, really thinking
about that. But today, when we talk about
brand, it's almost ubiquitous. It's everywhere.
But yet our understanding of what a brand is today what the
responsibilities in the business?
I think has a has less Clarity. Yeah.
People to come in. And so when you, when you have
clients to reach out to you, do they really understand the
extent of your capabilities. Do you find it?
They they understand what they're looking for and what you
can help them with or is it still more of a coaching and
learning? Its I'd say it's a bit of each.
There is some coaching and learning.
I mean, we decided about five years ago to really focus.
Our work into And that's primarily Financial Services,
which is where, you know, I just had so much experience in that
area and then also law firms and which is something we fell into
sort of accidentally and then I found out that I really really
like working with lawyers and that's what happens like when
you sleep fade out and get we say that again so we can have
that for the record. I really, really, really like
working for lawyers there. Smart they are for the most part
willing to listen and to acknowledge that they that they
have their expertise and that somebody else has expertise in
Brandon marketing and they really and they are looking for
guidance and they're very open and it's just it's just really
fun and because often that, you know, you're working with
Partners. They are decision makers right?
And so that's It's really I find.
It's something that's quite magical for me.
But anyway, what we started doing and using my design
criticism degree, is we started writing.
And so we publish probably at least two articles, a month on
our website that are really targeted to the issues that
either a financial services company or a law firm may be
grappling with And so oftentimes now because of that Focus, that
when people contact us, they're contacting us specifically for
that expertise. So they may not understand how
the sausage gets made. But they see that we've worked
with maybe their competitors soon and it's allowed you to
arise as a thought, leader, as a thought.
Leader. I'm very focused area.
Yeah, and, you know, when you really start to dive into a
particular industry and you start to understand the That
they have it just becomes more. I find it becomes more and more
interesting because you just you encounter something new and then
you know that because of your experience, you know how to deal
with it and it just that expertise just keeps growing all
the time. So what I love, what's wonderful
about your Viewpoint in areas. You've, if I can just interject
these words, it's you've curated, not only your practice,
but then your portfolio of clients.
It's as well. Yeah, and you have those, you've
taken the time to grow in which the resources and skills that
you offer match nicely with the group.
So I we're looking at it, you know, at the more mature space
in here. I love to talk about the messy
part at the beginning of that. Oh, yeah.
So give us some guidance on how have you had times when you've
had to gently let down a client or fire your clients.
In a space because it's not a good fit, you know, no one ever
wants to talk about that part of it.
We're we're it may not be a good fit for what you're doing for
them. Yeah, you know, it has not
happened that often but it has certainly happened and there was
one time early when the first maybe two years of my firm and I
had done a project for an architect and it was really a,
you know, the whole thing. Came out.
Great. Everything was wonderful.
He was really happy, and then we were doing more and more
projects for this particular architect.
And then, at one point, his assistant had taken over a lot
of the interactions with my firm and she was really mean.
And then at one point, she made one of my designers cry and this
was a young man. I mean, so it wasn't like, you
know, where you'd say. Oh was you know it, you know, a
fragile girl. Or something like that.
I mean, you know, it was a, you know, tough kid.
And so, anyway, I had to call him and just say, you know, I'm
really sorry. We, you know, this person is
just she's been so abusive and then finally today she made, you
know, my designer cry you. This can't, we can't keep doing
this and, you know, and I had spoken to her a few times where
I was like, you know, look, you know, you really need to When
you interact with us, it needs to be in a different way and she
just didn't care. And I said we just can't work
with you anymore. And he was just sort of like
what do you mean? And I said we can't work with
you and and he was, he was pretty flabbergasted.
And then there was another time where I had a client who had
done, he did some terrible things, like he had decided that
he wasn't that he had lowered the bill of an estimate, he had
signed and And then he just had decided he was going to
renegotiate the bill with me after the fact and I said, but
you approve this cost before we did the work.
And then and that was another client that I said.
I'm really sorry. You know what, we can't work
with you again. Now on the flip side of that are
their clients that you've actively sought out and said,
you know, I think that Decker would be a good fit for what
they need in the marketplace. Well, you know, we're always
actively looking. Going there was so for a period
of time. We did we did work for a
non-profit in the city called The Waterfront Alliance.
Okay, and I knew at the then director.
I knew pretty well from his other work that he had done at
Habitat for Humanity, in New York.
And I had just finished my design criticism program.
And part of my research when I was in that program was
Hurricane. Sandy had happened to York and I
was really interested in exploring Urban resiliency
particularly as a social justice issue.
And so I they needed a new brand and website and all sorts of
things and had extremely limited budget.
And I really I went to Roland and I had sent to him.
You know what, there is no designer who Who is going to be
more passionate about this project than I am and you should
know you should work with us on this and we had for the time
that Rowland was still, the director of that organization.
We had a fantastic relationship. Oh, wow, so elevate your
difference. So how hard is it to come up
with your own branding for your own space?
It's like, I know I love to ask that.
Question of designers in entrepreneurs and other spaces,
especially when we do this work for other people, art is client
ever. It's brutal and it's just
brutal. I You know, so in the interest
at or I'm continually researching ways to educate
myself there is there's a really terrific online business
resources called section 4 and it was founded by Scott Galloway
who is an NYU professor, and I highly recommend his podcast and
he does a great podcast with Kara Swisher.
So he he has all of these educational Sprints and I
recently took a storytelling Sprint.
Okay, and I It to do because I was thinking, okay.
I need to come up with a, you know, what is the Decker Design
Story? And I could not do it.
It was just I finished the project but it was terrible.
But I met a writer who is in my group and and I said to her
okay, I need some help. How, you know, can I hire you to
help me and I think that it is certain point that you need to
understand that there are certain skills that you don't
have and that maybe you need to To seek out a professional to
help, you know, help bring it to the next level and it's fun.
I also find that you, you learn even more about what your
clients experience, you have to put yourself through that and
having that objective third, party partner is really is
really great in that space. But yeah, so you classically
though to find yourself as a strategy.
Driven design agency. Yes.
I love that because you're putting it.
Up front and center that this is about strategy and and desire.
You know, when you work with your clients, how are you able
to reinforce the part that it is the critical thinking and
planning that enforces the design work as well.
Well that comes through in the first phone call that I have
with people and where they'll say.
Oh, we really love your work. You know, we love like they'll
always say, oh we love how such-and-such looks.
And I'll say that is fantastic. I'm really glad that you love
how it looks, but let me explain to you how it got there and that
this, you know a few years ago, maybe 10 15, maybe 15 years ago.
We were more apt to allow a client to say, well, I don't
want to pay for that and now it's just, I think it's like the
confidence that you develop over time, right?
Where you say to somebody. You don't get see without a.
You have to go to a, b and c. You have to follow the process.
If we take one part of the process out, it will the project
will fail. And so this is what it is.
And and this is what and I'm also really upfront.
Now with people about fees where I'll just say, you know, what
are you know, the work that we do tends to range from X to y.
Let me know if that, you know, are you comfortable?
Like, does that work with your budget?
Because sometimes people will contact us and, you know, I
never want to assume something, but you kind of have a feeling
that they probably are. Not at a point where they can
invest a certain amount with us. And we've just found that if we
try to do something at, you know, a lower price, the
quality, like we just can't pull it off.
We end up losing money on it because we don't want the
quality to suffer. And then we end up.
More time on the job and it's like, well, we're not a
non-profit. So, you know, we're not here to,
you know, serve, as you know, these people, these smaller
companies that they just don't have the budget allocated that
they can do it. So, so when we think about this
in kind of a role of being moving from being the designer,
to being the kind of senior designer in a, in a burton
Enterprise to being the head of Of your design firm.
Where do you not now find inspiration for the work
everyday? Well, I'm tired.
You getting up every day. I, you know, I think it's just
inspiration is everywhere. You know, it's really wonderful
that the Museum's have opened up again in New York.
Yeah, that is, you know, that's tremendously.
Wonderful for visual, you know, just to see things that are
different from the Every day, but I also love watching people
on the street. I mean, that to me is just poke
a stick, you know, our office is at Fifth Avenue and 23rd Street.
So, we're right by Madison Square Park and it's such an
intersection of humanity where, you know, you get people who are
going to like the LEGO store or Harry Potter.
You get people who are who live in the neighborhood?
It would just out walking their dog.
Dogs. You get people who are going to
offices and the people watching is just fantastic.
So, that's one thing that is really wonderful about New York.
I read a lot. I listen to podcasts.
I am a News Junkie and, you know, so I try to find
inspiration in May, if there are many different channels.
Well, it's interesting. So, first of all, you had me at
Lego store. So yes.
I'm gonna make my favorite spaces, but it's interesting it,
you know, for those who are watching and listening.
I want to full disclosure. That's the base in New York City
proper, but we're having our conversation today from outside
of the city. Correct.
Correct? Yes.
So, how have you been able to balance the kind of environment
of the office in the city? And then a remote space as both
kind of creative inputs. Well, you know, I think our team
miraculously, when we had to go to remote in March of 2020.
We started out, we we experimented with how many times
a day we were going to interact with each other and then we
found that the best combination when we were all remote was to
have a 15-minute meeting in the morning and a another 15 minutes
at the end of the day. So nice wrap things up.
And a lot of times those me. Things are more like people
talking, about house, maybe something in the news or, you
know, it's really more about us interacting as human beings as
opposed to a lot. There's some project management
stuff in there, but for the most part, it's about connecting with
your colleagues. So, when we decided to go back
to the office, in March of this year, we can't ride last fall.
And then when the I think was just right after Thanksgiving,
we went back to remote. From December to about early
March and then we're back in the office.
And so we're Monday Tuesday, Wednesday in the New York
office. And that's when we have most of
our like, really collaboration when we know we have sort of
problems that we have to solve together.
And then we, you know, where we can gather in our conference
room and, you know, just put stuff up on the walls and do all
the kind of stuff that, you know, people have been doing for
decades. Shades together.
And then we try to sort of hold Thursday and Friday for those
days that eat for people to do more deep work.
So that we feel like if we're remote, then you know, it's, you
know, each person is probably quieter.
They can they can really concentrate that way but the
office is always available to anybody it like.
So somebody says, you know, I'm going to go to the office on
Thursday. It's totally fine.
It's there and you know, everybody has access to it and
the equipment that's There is where, you know, thinking about
your business today. And as you are building and
designing it, what? What's one thing you wish you
had known when you start it. So not day one.
I yeah, I'll give you some space.
Maybe year five. What what's one thing you wish
you had known as a as a Studio owner.
I wish I had really understood the concept of that when you are
the when you are the leader of the business, you You really
can't, you can't physically do projects because even though
like probably at your five, I would still work on specific
projects and I think it compromised, my ability to be a
good objective leader. And it probably compromised our
ability to grow as well. And I wish I had really
understood that I shouldn't be physically designing things at
that point, that it was time to sort of step back hire people
who were fantastic and then guide and coach and guide them
to learn that, you know, the role of a great leader is really
more being like a coach and to help people grow in there.
In their roles so that they can sort of see the next level for
themselves either. Because this, we were talking,
it's like craft like when you go to work in a small firm, it is
an opportunity to accelerate your career in a certain sense
because in a small place you kind of have to do everything
and there's a good chance you may end up getting assigned a
project. That is so big, right?
He might not get that in a bigger firm because it would go
to someone where senior so in a All firm, that's the opportunity
and then, you know and then if your boss is a good coach and
helps you to see like, oh, I'm now at a stage in my career
where I'm going to direct the intern.
Maybe I'm going to learn how to supervise another person.
I'm going to learn how to teach skills to another individual and
then, you know, and help people to move along that pathway so
that they can be leaders. I wish I knew Ooh, that five
years in. And to put a different focus on
those questions in there. What advice do you give to other
young women who are looking to take on these leadership roles,
you know, I touched on this earlier and being a woman in
business, I think is there are challenges that men do not have
to deal with and I think trust and competency like having
people believe in your Nancy is such, it's so much more
challenging. I was listening to Adam Grant
the other day, who is had a podcast and he was talking about
pitches. And so he had a young woman on
the podcast who had a tech company, and he was coaching her
about her pitch, and one of the issues that they brought up.
And I'm sitting there is like, oh God, I can't believe I'm
hearing this, was that, you know, for a woman who is in,
say, a new business pitch or you know, pitching to investors if
she smiles a lot and she's warm and friendly, she's interpreted
as having less competence. Wow, and, you know, and I can't
tell you how many times did someone will say to me, you're
too serious. You should smile more, you know,
and then you go into a meeting and, you know, it It's like you
should and apparently like you shouldn't be super enthusiastic
because that makes people think that you are that you don't know
what you're doing. We're for a man.
He needs to smile and be enthusiastic and that's like
he's warm and friendly, I mean the, you know, the
contradictions are crazy and you know how it's like, oh if you're
tough, you're a bitch, you know, if you're nice you're you know,
people can walk all over you. I mean, it's just like it's it
is so difficult for women and I don't know if any of us really
have the answer to that but I think it's just like it's
something to be aware of like you just need to acknowledge
that a lot of times things are going to be more difficult.
Now that said many of my clients now are women and when I started
my business it was going to ask you about that was gonna ask you
about that King. In terms of the arc and
especially the focus on, you know, financial services and
legal services areas in there. Have you seen a rise in change
in leadership in the space? Where your for your clients?
Oh, yeah. Are you working with more women
as leaders? More women as leaders and then
and I can't tell you how many times where we'll have a
conversation and it'll be a new business conversation and then
it will come out that some guy, mansplain them and how man they
are. That like something from some
agency. He's just going to come in and
tell them everything and they're just outraged by the attitude
and then like yeah, I know I've been there and so like so in a
certain sense there is, what did not exist, previously there.
I think there's more camaraderie and I think that often women and
I don't want him and I don't want to make this as, you know,
a blanket assumption, but I do think that sometimes, There are
there's empathy for the situation that we are all faced
with. So when I think about all the
skills that you bring to the table as a designer, and now
those as an executive leader, do you find that some of your
training as a designer helps you navigate and strengthen these
connections with your clients and spaces?
As I kind of hear you listening through there about listening
and engaging and some of the things we talked about.
Kind of core training as a designer.
Have you been able to pull those skills in to navigating these
executive orders? Yeah, you know, I think
designers by Nature have like I'm very good at pattern
recognition. And I think that designers have
that skill gets developed early on and so that does help me with
when I'm working with clients, especially in the early stages
where we're developing. Tajiri, where I will hear the
same statements and I'm really sensitive to that tearing the
same thing is repeated over and over.
So and you know, I'm I've always been the kind of person that
like you could put like this big messy thing in front of me and
then I come up. Oh, here's what it's supposed to
be and like, rearrange all the parts.
Like I used to, when I was a kid.
I used to put bicycles together. So Like, I really wanted.
I wanted a ten-speed. Okay, so I know this now is this
bicycle building? We have never talked about this.
Okay? Building, basically great.
I wanted. I wanted a ten-speed bike and my
father said no and but I had, I had graduated from parochial
school and my, some of my relatives gave me some money.
And so I talked my mother into taking me to one of the local
store. Is and it was, it was this place
called The Times Square store. So it was a cheap place and you
when you got the bike, it came in a box.
It wasn't assembled. And all of the directions were
in maybe Japanese or Korean. I don't know it, but there were
no directions in English or anything you have pictures.
No, it had to put all of the I just, I was so determined
because my father was like I said, no, and you defied me.
And I was like, well, you know, that's kind of what I do.
And so I had all the parts in the backyard and then very
gradually. I figured out how everything
went together, and I put the put the damn bike together and I
just with one pair of pliers, because I didn't have any other
tools that I could find around the house and I did it.
I put the bike together. You know, what's wonderful.
That is that story is just such a metaphor for you and what
you've built with Decker desire, you came.
And it started off from being the, the unhappy employee, you
know, outside of the company in there and taking all the parts
and pieces with no directions know it.
But you knew you wanted a bike, right?
And you continue to refine and build this set.
And now you have if Built This Magnificent bike and I can't be,
I have to say it. I tell you all the time.
I'm incredibly proud of the journey you continue to take and
the work that you do as an Sample for those, in our
community to see that it is possible.
I cannot believe you built the bike with cheap parts and
pieces, but it is so much. It is so much you and mystery in
there. And so I want to give you a
moment to to say to get the last word in on.
What do you think about our messy future?
I know you like to make things better that are messing.
What do you what do you think the role of design and design
business? Can be in terms of making a
better future. Oh gosh, you know I guess really
what we're seeing going on in our society right now.
There's so many different ways that design can contribute.
I think in particular, Health Care is a huge information in
healthcare. I think is a huge, huge place,
you know, before we got on the call you and I were talking
about when We had our last conversation I had said to you
that I I wasn't feeling well today that we had talked and I
got covid. My husband got covid and even
though we were both vaccinated, he got very sick and we we went
on a journey to find out what to do and to get pecs pecs lobbied
for him and it was so difficult, you know, just like finding out
basic information. In terms of health care.
Now, we're so, you know, we were to I'm out in Montauk right now
and here in the East End of Long Island in the winter.
There's a really a dearth of health care services.
So, you know, we called around we call to the local hospital.
They were like, I don't even know what that is.
And so anyway, we had to we went on this incredible journey to
try and figure out how we could get him this medication.
Eventually got it, but it was an entire eight-hour, day of
research and driving to try and find it.
And, you know, Healthcare it mean, when you think about like,
we're middle class people, like it shouldn't be that hard.
How bad is it for somebody who has many more economic
challenges? Right me.
It's just unconscionable. So I think You know, if I were
going to pick one place, I would really want to reform and
centralize all the information about health care and how to get
services in two places and two people who can't get it because
I think it's just a national tragedy.
And I think on that note. We'll end our Fireside today
with strategist, business owner, bicycle maker futurist, you
know, designer turned CEO, which you are probably already a CEO
before. Thank you, Linda for being here.
Thank you for sharing and such a passionate and candid way your
journey through design and business.
And I also have To point out, Linda promise me that I achieve
would have the coolest Fireside background for me ever.
So if you notice, there are three incredibly groovy lava
lamps, which are my digital Fireside for today.
So, thank you all for joining us.
Thank you. Linda for being here and
everyone enjoy the rest of our design and business conference
continue to create boldly. Thank you.