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I think because we're in an 
industry where we are using 

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machines, that the thing that I 
want to dispel is that that does

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not equal like faster producing 
time in a sense where there is a

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human behind these machines. 
So it we need time and space to 

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explore and really research and 
take our time to produce 

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something. 
That is awful, you're listening 

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to design future. 
Now a podcast from aiga, Say the

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professional association for 
design. 

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I'm Li Shan Wang The Voice, you 
heard at the top of the episode 

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belongs, to Esther Moon, who 
co-founded little fury design in

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2006 with her partner. 
Tina Garden. 

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Esther is a graduate of the 
School of Visual Arts in New 

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York, where she earned a degree 
in graphic design before. 

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Starting little Theory as to 
work that pentagram and at Duffy

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and partners. 
Pastor, thank you so much for 

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joining us on the show today. 
Of course, it's aren't we? 

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Here have to hear from your own 
words, a little bit more about 

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little fiery and then we can 
dive deep into your personal 

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story as well, Tina and I met 
more than 15 years ago and she 

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was actually introducing me to a
job opportunity. 

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At Martha Stewart magazine when 
I was at Duffy and I asked her a

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question. 
What is it that you really want 

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to do? 
And we found this common passion

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about tangible. 
Products. 

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So she came over that night to 
my apartment and we just 

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discussed on what is the thing 
that we want to make? 

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And this link will notebook idea
is what actually made us quit or

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full-time jobs to start launch 
this product line but then that 

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kind of led to Let's design 
together and make money 

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together. 
And that's how little fiery 

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design was worth. 
So little fury design is both 

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our Design Studio, where you 
work with clients and do that 

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sort of work as well as. 
You have these different 

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projects where you launch 
products, like the linkable 

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notebooks. 
You'll have this side project 

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little cake toppers and how do 
you think about that? 

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How do you juggle these two 
sides of what you do in terms of

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the client work? 
And then these projects that are

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essentially entrepreneurial 
Ventures that spin off of that? 

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Yeah we do enjoy branding and 
packaging as clients but I think

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our passions always been 
collaborating with different 

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types of artists whether 
they're, you know, Architects or

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construction or operation. 
Ian's or dancers. 

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So we always kind of keep that 
in mind to get our juices going 

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in the sense that creative 
inspiration going so that we're 

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not always Tethered to design 
clients but also producing and 

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making tangible things. 
Got it. 

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And I feel like we're kind of in
this age of digital now. 

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And how have you been thinking 
about that or kind of resisting 

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the moving to digital especially
now, just this last year and 

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what's going on? 
Like how do you stay grounded in

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that focus in your passion and 
in the physical? 

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You know, we've been running a 
little fiery design for 15 years

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and there was a period where 
she, we grow our studio with a 

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digital arm because that's where
all the studios are. 

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Moving into and she, we grow the
business with more designers and

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make it more robust, and we 
really thought about it. 

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And we were like, you know what,
I don't think that's our 

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strength and that is not an 
interest, so let's not force it.

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So we've been pretty good about 
sticking to what we are better 

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at and the area that we actually
enjoy the most. 

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And I think that's one of the 
reasons why it's very telling 

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that we stuck with branding and 
packaging tangible packaging 

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because we both love tangible 
products. 

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Your name is little fiery, is 
it? 

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Because you've chosen to stay a 
small team or what's the story 

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behind that name? 
That was actually Tina's 

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freelance. 
Me little Theory and when we 

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going together, we kind of 
looked at each other. 

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We're just like, hey, your 
little and we're both fiery. 

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So we could be furious. 
So let's just keep it little 

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fiery. 
We thought it was very keeping 

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to who we were. 
I love that name storen how like

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her name was able to include you
in this way and yeah, and be a 

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part of your Collective 
identity. 

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So how do you differentiate 
yourselves? 

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Like how do you stand out in 
terms of your point of view? 

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From other Studios that are 
working in this branding and 

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packaging space? 
That's an interesting question. 

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Because there are so many 
studios out there and we 

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actually did go through this 
identity crisis where I like, 

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how are we different, and how do
we set ourselves apart? 

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And I think it was one of those 
years where we really needed to 

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Define and identify who you are 
as a design studio. 

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We actually hired us Allergist, 
and the strategy people that we 

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share space with in the actually
kind of helped us Define. 

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We are. 
And so, our tagline is, every 

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big idea needs a little fiery, 
and we actually kind of really 

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gain our strength in the fact 
that we're both creative 

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directors. 
But we're in the middie greedy 

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of all design projects from 
sketches all the way to 

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production files. 
So because we're Nimble and we 

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have so much experience 
together. 

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We tend to work very fast and 
Yeah, we just get a lot of 

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things done and lift out of 
weight. 

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And I think the strength and the
Golden Nugget with working with 

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little fear is that you get to 
work directly with us. 

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So we're very strict about 
taking maybe maybe maximum three

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clients. 
So we have full attention and 

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give 110% to each client that we
have. 

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That's wonderful. 
I wanted to direct our viewers 

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or listeners to the little fury 
website because they have this 

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amazing like infographic 
flowchart, kind of thing. 

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About both Esther and her 
partner Tina's career and story 

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and how they've come together. 
It's super cute. 

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But also, it's like a great way 
of reimagining like a resume 

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instead of like bullet points 
and things like that. 

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What was the idea behind that? 
How did you decide like? 

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Oh, Let's do an infographic to 
tell her story, you know, we 

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actually never had or made a, 
like, a former resume, you know 

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life. 
So I think when we first decide 

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to conjoin our portfolio pieces 
to Launch little fiery. 

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I mean Tina and I look at it to 
the rumors, like, I don't want 

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to do another like resume that's
just like, you know, telling a 

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story of where we went and where
we worked, and yes, those things

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are important but let's do it in
a visually interesting way. 

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And the first resume chart that 
you're seeing or not, not right 

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now. 
But like the first one was a lot

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shorter. 
So we decided to just grow the 

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chart and we've gotten a lot of 
feedback how that's like, you 

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know, a lot of people's favorite
part about the whole website. 

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Yeah. 
That's wonderful. 

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So let's dive into your past a 
little bit more of these key 

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points in your career. 
As you've talked about how you 

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met with Tina, did you give a 
piece of advice to your younger 

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self? 
And then we'll dive into a 

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little bit more of your 
experiences and stories from 

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their advice that I would give 
my younger self would be be more

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curious. 
I think that Curiosity grows 

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open-mindedness I think ever 
since I was young I was very 

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like task-oriented goal-oriented
so we're very focused on like 

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what is my next goal? 
What is like the next from that?

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I want to be part of what is the
next project that I'm going to 

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work on? 
So it was very task-oriented and

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I think that has shut down a lot
of media opportunities or people

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that I could have been engaged 
with or opportunities that I 

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could have walked through. 
Yeah, so be more Curious would 

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have been. 
Is that the first thing that 

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came to mind be more Curious. 
That's great. 

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What are some of the things that
you're curious about now that 

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are maybe outside of your 
day-to-day work as a designer? 

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I think I've been always curious
to what brings people Joy. 

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So whenever I get to know 
people, I love asking that like 

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what brings you Joy? 
Instead of like, oh, what do you

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do? 
Or you know, what you do? 

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Does that bring you Joy? 
Because I think I told you like 

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a real part of who they are. 
In a sense rather than like, oh 

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what do you do? 
Where do you went like, instead 

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of running through the resume in
a sense just we are as people. 

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Yeah, I'm so annoyed by that. 
What do you do question in like 

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these casual social networking, 
kind of environment. 

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It's one of the things that I 
don't look forward to with 

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things like reopening. 
Let's reopen Ask better 

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questions, like what are you 
curious about? 

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Or what brings you Joy? 
Yeah. 

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So we're going back to your 
journey, your career Journey. 

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You've been an entrepreneur for 
a while now with little fiery, 

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but prior to that, you were 
working in a larger Studios 

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larger agencies, like pentagram.
And then it Duffy was there a 

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point where you just decided 
like you wanted to focus on the 

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little fiery, the kind of small 
team versus maybe some of these 

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larger Studios and agencies in 
terms of how how they work. 

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You know, I've never actually 
imagine or wanted to start my 

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own design studio. 
So what the Catalyst was 

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producing our own product line 
and then that sort of led to 

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hey, we should make money 
together. 

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That's a little Theory came 
about. 

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But Tina and I we never really 
had like one day. 

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We want to have our own Design 
Studio. 

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One day. 
I would love to untie dream 

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about having my own Design 
Studio. 

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That was never really in the 
picture. 

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Yeah, so the design studio It 
sounds like it was something to 

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support your collaboration and 
allow you to put these products 

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in the world. 
Is that kind of how it happened?

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Yeah, so let's talk about your 
first product. 

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It's going to start here, 
linkable notebooks, could you 

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tell us more about that and how 
that came about? 

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So Tina and I we got together 
and she had this passion for 

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like a book of maps where you 
would jot down where you've been

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and like, right down, you know, 
these are my favorite 

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restaurants and it was all like 
physical notebooks and I was 

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obsessed with Planners and I 
still write my schedules. 

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I never use Google Calendar. 
I write in my planner like 

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actually the start here planner 
that I rewrite with numbers and 

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every time I would do a project,
I sketch a lot. 

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So I started stitching the 
really thin mooji notebooks that

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I wanted to refer back to the 
sketches that I've done before. 

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Because mooji Nobles are really 
thin shell, really Stitch the 

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binding. 
And so it became this. 

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Yeah, like Stitch notebooks, 
like series of 34 know. 

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Looks, and so we were like, oh, 
I wonder if we could like link 

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to see other a connectors 
together. 

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And so we went through many 
iterations of like complicated 

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mock-ups and then we came up 
with the idea where we have this

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front pocket, where the last 
pocket back pocket of the 

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notebook, slides into the front 
pocket and it is seamless. 

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It just slides in and out and it
looks very simple. 

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So we were like this is it. 
So after we finish it with hand 

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high and mocking stuff we 
actually Ali sent the file out 

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for like a professional mock-up 
and we produce 20,000 notebooks 

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15 years ago. 
Wow. 

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00:11:07,100 --> 00:11:09,600
Yeah, so first of all, the 
design it sounds like it's like 

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the marsupial of notebooks with 
these Pockets. 

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Going into things are like the 
Voltron of notebook. 

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So you can combine together. 
Yeah. 

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I'd so you produce 20,000 of 
these was this something that 

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00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,900
you like did a Kickstarter for 
pre-sale? 

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00:11:21,900 --> 00:11:24,200
Or was just like, this is 
interesting. 

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We think this is interesting to 
sell and like let's just make 

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some men, see what happens. 
Like how did you get to that? 

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00:11:29,700 --> 00:11:32,600
3000 number just decided to put 
that into production. 

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Our first round was with you 
pull paper which was really 

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00:11:35,900 --> 00:11:38,100
expensive. 
We actually discovered that 

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00:11:38,100 --> 00:11:41,500
material by working on Rembrandt
toothpaste, and to be honest, I 

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00:11:41,500 --> 00:11:44,900
think we were young and naive. 
We were just like in love with 

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00:11:44,900 --> 00:11:48,500
this genius idea. 
So we put in so much of our 

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00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:53,400
money that we made with our 
first project and 10,000 was a 

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00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:57,400
mark where we started hitting a 
lower cost per book. 

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We didn't do any Kickstarter. 
We didn't promote on any level. 

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00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:03,900
We were featured in a lot of 
magazines. 

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00:12:04,500 --> 00:12:07,800
We had a few stores, you know, 
for poaching as a mute solo 

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other stores. 
But looking back, I don't think 

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00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,400
we did our part. 
In terms of really pushing for 

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00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,000
sale. 
I think we were just such a 

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makers that we knew how to make,
but we did not know how to sell.

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Yeah, I really appreciate your 
honesty about the origin story. 

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I feel like with a lot of 
entrepreneurs, there's this kind

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of myth making about, you know, 
it started in a garage or all of

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these things but then there's 
also this like selection bias or

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survivorship bias of like a will
because you made it or because 

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you're successful. 
You can tell that story now so I

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appreciate the real talk about 
like you know, we just we didn't

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know so we just invested our own
money into it and put it out 

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there. 
Yeah. 

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And so are these still available
or was it just Kind of a limited

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run for yourself. 
And for whoever wanted to do 

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about 2,000 notebooks left and 
I'm still trying to sell them. 

239
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Yeah. 
Can you tell people where they 

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can get them if they want them? 
Email? 

241
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Me directly. 
Esther a little angry. 

242
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Yeah, awesome. 
Yeah. 

243
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And you also have another 
different side project that 

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we've been working on called 
little cake toppers custom 

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wooden wedding cake. 
Toppers, did he tell us the 

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story behind that it was about 
Eight, nine years ago, we were 

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at a flea market, Brooklyn, Flea
Market trying to sell her 

248
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notebooks and it was rainy day. 
So nobody was coming to the flea

249
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market buying stuff, but there 
was another vendor selling those

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wooden Stoppers and so I was so 
bored. 

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So I bought a set and I thought 
of painting a wedding cake 

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topper for a friend. 
And then I got an idea of and I 

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start posting it on Instagram, 
and I did another set for like a

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Korean wedding dress. 
Or Chinese wedding dress, like a

255
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cultural wedding dresses, which 
is yeah, didn't beautiful. 

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So I start having so much fun, 
customizing them and then I 

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start getting increased from 
strangers. 

258
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So that was like the idea where 
like, oh, I should turn to talk 

259
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business. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's how it 

260
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started. 
It's interesting to kind of 

261
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compare and contrast. 
The notebook business worry, you

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kind of went in on a passion and
put in the order for thousands, 

263
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tens of thousands of units. 
And then this one is like, okay,

264
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this is Just something you're 
interested in, you shared it on 

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Instagram, I guess Instagram 
exists. 

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Now I'm like when you first 
launch your notebooks and then 

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it kind of builds organically 
that you were able to determine 

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demand because people were 
reaching out. 

269
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,600
Yeah, yeah. 
And I can't, I personally can't 

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stand like registry wedding 
guests impersonal. 

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It's either that or you given 
cash. 

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So, yeah, wedding cake toppers 
or the topper set actually 

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became a really great gifts. 
And that's how I actually 

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started and then when I start 
getting, you know, increased 

275
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with strangers, that's when it 
started decided to charge it. 

276
00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:57,900
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

277
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That's such a great point. 
I'm Taiwanese so I'm like, yeah,

278
00:15:00,100 --> 00:15:02,700
just give cash. 
You know the wedding. 

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It is like it's so interesting. 
The history of like these 

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wedding Registries even though 
today like most couples are 

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already living together before 
they get married. 

282
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So like they really need a new 
toaster. 

283
00:15:14,700 --> 00:15:17,700
They probably had a toaster for 
a while now, you know, it's like

284
00:15:17,900 --> 00:15:19,900
we're still bees like, 
old-fashioned customs and S. 

285
00:15:19,900 --> 00:15:21,800
It really fitting? 
Today's purposes. 

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00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,800
What is a myth or misconception 
about your craft your industry 

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00:15:26,900 --> 00:15:29,300
that you'd like to dispel for 
our audience today? 

288
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,400
Mmm, my brain went to so many 
directions without question, but

289
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:38,000
I think the thing that stood out
the most was I think because 

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we're in an industry where we 
are using machines, that the 

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00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,200
thing that I want to dispel is 
that that does not equal like 

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00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:51,100
faster producing time. 
In a sense where There is a 

293
00:15:51,100 --> 00:15:54,900
human behind these machines. 
So it we need time and space to 

294
00:15:54,900 --> 00:15:59,200
explore and really research and 
take our time to produce 

295
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:00,600
something. 
That is thoughtful. 

296
00:16:01,100 --> 00:16:02,400
Yeah. 
I've been thinking about how, 

297
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:06,000
like, oh, I wonder why even till
now and so many designers like 

298
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,100
their number one complaint is 
like everything was due 

299
00:16:09,100 --> 00:16:12,900
yesterday and it's like is it? 
Because we're on the machines 

300
00:16:12,900 --> 00:16:15,400
that people think like could 
just produce you know? 

301
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,100
And there's like a like a 
running joke between Tina and I 

302
00:16:18,100 --> 00:16:20,500
going like do or not Kinkos, you
know. 

303
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,200
So yeah, I think that's 
something that came to my mind, 

304
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:28,200
as I got number one thing. 
Yeah, I like this idea of like, 

305
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:33,100
we're not Kinko's and I think 
more and more as technology 

306
00:16:33,100 --> 00:16:36,800
permeates Our Lives. 
We start using the terms that we

307
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:38,900
use for technology for 
ourselves, and when people say, 

308
00:16:38,900 --> 00:16:41,300
like, oh, I don't have bandwidth
for that right now. 

309
00:16:41,300 --> 00:16:42,800
We're like, you know, my memory 
is full. 

310
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,700
It's like, are you like, you 
know, you're not a computer or 

311
00:16:45,700 --> 00:16:47,300
right? 
You can't do like a ram update 

312
00:16:47,300 --> 00:16:49,500
on your brain, but it's 
interesting how these 

313
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,200
technological out of forest, 
come change the way we think 

314
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:57,700
about ourselves as humans and as
professionals Yes. 

315
00:16:58,900 --> 00:17:01,400
And so what are you reading 
right now? 

316
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,000
Like watching or listening to 
you right now that you want to 

317
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,900
recommend to our audience? 
I am currently reading this book

318
00:17:07,900 --> 00:17:11,200
called Art and Faith by Marco 
fujimura. 

319
00:17:12,300 --> 00:17:15,300
I would say I'm like, 1/3 in it 
and then I just started another 

320
00:17:15,300 --> 00:17:19,800
book, called Art of gathering. 
I would love that book, okay? 

321
00:17:19,900 --> 00:17:21,599
Yeah. 
I just started. 

322
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,000
That's great. 
You know, Priya Parker who's the

323
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,099
author of The Art of gathering. 
She did like a limited series 

324
00:17:28,099 --> 00:17:30,200
podcast. 
I think with the New York Times 

325
00:17:30,300 --> 00:17:33,100
during the pandemic kind of 
updating it, right? 

326
00:17:33,100 --> 00:17:36,000
Because it's about Gathering. 
She's a professional facilitator

327
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,600
and conflict. 
Mediator, and like talking about

328
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,400
all sorts of issues of Lego. 
How do you gather during Like 

329
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,500
social distancing or she just 
did an interview on burn a 

330
00:17:46,508 --> 00:17:50,300
Browns podcast where she talks 
about, like, coming back from 

331
00:17:50,300 --> 00:17:53,900
covid for the folks tuning in on
the live Esther and I were just 

332
00:17:53,900 --> 00:17:57,500
talking in the Green Room about 
meeting friends who you haven't 

333
00:17:57,500 --> 00:18:00,300
seen in, like, over a year and 
like, what are these protocols 

334
00:18:00,300 --> 00:18:03,600
around? 
Like, do you hug do handshake? 

335
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,700
Like how do we negotiate all of 
this? 

336
00:18:05,700 --> 00:18:09,000
Social awkwardness again, right?
Like can get back comfortable 

337
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,400
with these things. 
I just wanted to second that. 

338
00:18:12,100 --> 00:18:14,900
Recommendation, wholeheartedly 
myself, awesome. 

339
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,500
So I also wanted to take some 
audience questions. 

340
00:18:18,500 --> 00:18:21,700
I see people posting in the chat
here in LinkedIn and some of our

341
00:18:21,700 --> 00:18:25,700
other channels. 
Lindsay wanted to know, is there

342
00:18:25,700 --> 00:18:28,200
a place where she can see 
pictures of the notebooks 

343
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,200
online? 
Probably little Theory, design, 

344
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,600
Instagram account. 
Yeah, yeah, there are a lot of 

345
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,700
examples of cool branded ones, 
too. 

346
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,600
So, do you have any plans for 
what's next? 

347
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,300
In terms of launching new 
products, or Ventures, or 

348
00:18:45,300 --> 00:18:48,300
anything like that? 
You know, drink covid. 

349
00:18:48,300 --> 00:18:52,000
I've been incubating like two 
projects, even though it was 

350
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,300
really hard time to motivate 
myself to do anything. 

351
00:18:54,300 --> 00:18:59,800
So there's one idea that I'm 
working on with all kinds of 

352
00:18:59,808 --> 00:19:04,100
artists where they are actually 
hosting their own version of 

353
00:19:04,100 --> 00:19:08,400
workshops, whether you're a chef
or Or musical artist or tap the 

354
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,000
answer, or calligrapher that 
they're going to be hosting 

355
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,600
their own workshops, and it's 
going to be called gather that 

356
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,900
I'm looking to launch in the 
summer July. 

357
00:19:18,100 --> 00:19:20,300
And I'm hoping that we could 
start meeting in person for 

358
00:19:20,300 --> 00:19:23,400
that. 
And then the other one is I'm 

359
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,700
actually working on the 
illustrating children's book. 

360
00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:27,800
Wonderful. 
Yeah. 

361
00:19:28,100 --> 00:19:29,900
Is there anything else you could
share about that as a still 

362
00:19:29,900 --> 00:19:33,000
under wraps? 
No, it's about the whole story 

363
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:37,000
is about growth mindset versus 
fixed mindset. 

364
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:39,500
So when you know, when you look 
at something, you either have a 

365
00:19:39,508 --> 00:19:41,200
mindset of like oh I don't know 
that. 

366
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,300
So I'm not going to go near it 
versus oh I don't know it so I 

367
00:19:44,308 --> 00:19:47,200
want to learn it. 
So it's about Johnny Mac and 

368
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:51,100
Cheese a little elbow macaroni 
who's really good at ping pong, 

369
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,100
but he's learning his lesson to 
stretch his mind as you know, 

370
00:19:55,100 --> 00:19:58,000
from fixed mindset to a growth 
mindset through play with 

371
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,200
different snacks. 
I love that. 

372
00:20:01,300 --> 00:20:04,300
Yeah. 
How did you get the idea for 

373
00:20:04,300 --> 00:20:07,400
that, like your other kids in 
your life that this is sort of a

374
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:11,700
message to know? 
So I have a writer fan, Tim Cox.

375
00:20:12,100 --> 00:20:14,900
So we were just catching up 
about the things that he's been 

376
00:20:14,900 --> 00:20:18,000
working in Japan. 
And then we were just, you know,

377
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,700
catching up like a normal 
conversation during cold because

378
00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:22,600
we actually met in person in the
fall. 

379
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,900
And I just said, like, you know,
I've always wanted to illustrate

380
00:20:25,900 --> 00:20:29,900
children's books and he's like, 
oh, I really have an idea that I

381
00:20:30,300 --> 00:20:34,300
After my counseling session and 
the counselor told him to read 

382
00:20:34,300 --> 00:20:38,700
this book called mindset. 
And so he was inspired from that

383
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:43,700
book and wrote this short story 
on, Johnny Mac, and Cheese. 

384
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,200
And so we sat down and I was 
like, I think there's something 

385
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,600
here that we could actually 
elaborate it, and make it into a

386
00:20:50,608 --> 00:20:53,300
story. 
So, that's what we've been 

387
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:58,100
working on with an editor. 
And I start to illustrate and it

388
00:20:58,100 --> 00:21:02,100
just become became like a lot. 
Of a tangible and like a great 

389
00:21:02,100 --> 00:21:05,000
storyline. 
Love that idea. 

390
00:21:05,100 --> 00:21:10,300
Amazing how these collaborations
is turn into like, actual 

391
00:21:10,300 --> 00:21:13,900
physical tangible things? 
What is something that we 

392
00:21:13,900 --> 00:21:16,600
haven't talked about that? 
You'd like to talk about in the 

393
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,700
time we have left. 
Oh, I would say the one thing 

394
00:21:19,700 --> 00:21:24,100
that I want to share that's been
inspiring for me, personally is 

395
00:21:24,100 --> 00:21:29,300
that I remember my dreams ever 
since I was very young and 

396
00:21:29,300 --> 00:21:34,000
during covid-19 Times that it's 
the Dreamland has been taking it

397
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:38,400
to another level and that's also
been a point of inspiration for 

398
00:21:38,700 --> 00:21:42,400
Creative projects for me. 
So I think that's something that

399
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,600
I wanted to share because I 
think a lot of wood dreaming, 

400
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,300
they remember their dreams, but 
they dismiss it. 

401
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,800
But I think there are times 
where you pay attention to it 

402
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:54,200
and either listen to a special 
message from the dreams or it 

403
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,200
could be a point of inspiration.
I love that. 

404
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,300
That's such a good reminder to 
just get enough sleep to dream 

405
00:22:00,300 --> 00:22:03,900
to. 
Yes, we have a couple audience 

406
00:22:03,900 --> 00:22:05,600
questions here that are really 
great. 

407
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,200
I'll just batch them to the 
together once from Rod and the 

408
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,400
other ones from Rouge. 
I hope I'm getting your names 

409
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,200
correctly. 
The first one from Arad is as a 

410
00:22:13,208 --> 00:22:15,800
graphic designer, as a designer 
in general, what's what do you 

411
00:22:15,808 --> 00:22:18,200
think is needed for the future? 
And then, I'll give you the 

412
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,100
second one and we can take them 
though. 

413
00:22:20,100 --> 00:22:23,200
It's Rouge wants to know, how do
you deal with creative block? 

414
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,300
So what's needed in the future? 
And how do you deal with 

415
00:22:25,300 --> 00:22:30,400
creative block? 
Mmm, what's needed is, I think, 

416
00:22:30,900 --> 00:22:35,000
really thinking hard about what 
the world actually needs. 

417
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,800
If that makes sense because I 
think, you know, in terms of 

418
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,800
products and apps in there, so 
many things, Are out there so 

419
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,300
many information. 
It's just a lot of things in 

420
00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:47,900
different categories and in 
areas. 

421
00:22:48,300 --> 00:22:52,200
So, I think even when you are 
taking, or considering taking on

422
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,400
the project or producing 
something or starting something,

423
00:22:56,900 --> 00:23:00,600
I think the good question to ask
ourselves is it is actually 

424
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,800
helpful for other people. 
Not just for myself, but for 

425
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,400
others, is it helping other 
people? 

426
00:23:06,900 --> 00:23:09,000
I think that's a good way to 
gauge. 

427
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,300
This is actually needed. 
For for others, that's something

428
00:23:13,300 --> 00:23:17,200
that we've been asking a lot and
creative block personally. 

429
00:23:17,300 --> 00:23:21,900
Oh my God, I love swimming. 
So like that's like the one 

430
00:23:21,900 --> 00:23:26,100
thing that obviously it was 
taken away from covid, but being

431
00:23:26,100 --> 00:23:29,200
in the water. 
So anything near the water like 

432
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,000
walk around the Water swimming 
or taking a bath. 

433
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,600
Like, I think, for me like the 
creative flow is when I'm in 

434
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,900
when I'm physically in motion. 
So, when I'm walking or Or 

435
00:23:40,900 --> 00:23:45,100
swimming or jogging or yeah, I 
think that's what my blink and 

436
00:23:45,100 --> 00:23:47,800
it just chills out. 
That's wonderful. 

437
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,400
I feel like, sometimes we can 
get really stuck, especially in 

438
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,700
a studio environment, where just
like at the desk or at the 

439
00:23:53,700 --> 00:23:57,900
computer and like, not reminder,
you just gave us about like 

440
00:23:57,900 --> 00:23:59,700
motion. 
It is so important. 

441
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,800
Yes. 
So to flip the script. 

442
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,600
I also like to ask my guess if 
they have any questions for me. 

443
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,100
So you can ask me anything, you 
like, you know what, I'm going 

444
00:24:10,100 --> 00:24:12,900
to ask you. 
The And that I ask anybody that 

445
00:24:12,900 --> 00:24:14,900
I need for the first time. 
What brings you Joy? 

446
00:24:15,500 --> 00:24:19,300
What brings me, joy? 
I think it's probably be, I get 

447
00:24:19,300 --> 00:24:23,400
it a lot in the teaching part of
my practice which is like seeing

448
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:28,400
people being able to unlock 
their own creativity, whether 

449
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,000
it's my students, but also like,
with other creative 

450
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,400
professionals and designers, 
that I talked to on the show and

451
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,900
like, seeing things in action, 
like, I love those little like, 

452
00:24:37,900 --> 00:24:41,800
documentary shows that are all 
about the process of Thing, and 

453
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:43,800
when I see it in my students, 
over the course of the semester,

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00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,100
I think that gives me a lot of 
joy that in like our dogs, 

455
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,500
wonderful. 
And you just tell our audience 

456
00:24:51,500 --> 00:24:54,200
where they can find you and 
little fury online. 

457
00:24:54,900 --> 00:24:59,500
Yeah, little fury design.com is 
our website little fury design 

458
00:24:59,500 --> 00:25:02,100
Instagram. 
Or if you have any questions or 

459
00:25:02,100 --> 00:25:06,100
anything that you're curious 
about, you could email me at 

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00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,100
Esther at little fiery.com. 
Thanks again for joining us. 

461
00:25:10,100 --> 00:25:11,900
And thank you everybody for 
tuning in. 

462
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,100
I'll see you at the next one. 
Thank you. 

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00:25:15,900 --> 00:25:19,700
And thank you for listening to 
another episode of design 

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00:25:19,700 --> 00:25:22,700
future. 
Now, I'm Li Shan Wang hope 

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00:25:22,700 --> 00:25:27,100
you'll join us on one of our 
live streams on the aiga design 

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00:25:27,300 --> 00:25:30,400
LinkedIn, Facebook or YouTube 
channels. 

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00:25:30,900 --> 00:25:34,600
You can subscribe to design 
future now wherever you get 

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00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,000
Podcast until next time,