1 00:00:00,100 --> 00:00:02,700 I love project management for a number of reasons, right? 2 00:00:02,700 --> 00:00:04,900 One, it's just been a big part of my life for a long time. 3 00:00:04,900 --> 00:00:09,500 But the, what you can accomplish through a team is much greater 4 00:00:09,500 --> 00:00:11,900 exponentially greater than what you can accomplish as an 5 00:00:11,900 --> 00:00:13,500 individual. And I think it, we talked about 6 00:00:13,500 --> 00:00:16,900 young people earlier what they want is to do something 7 00:00:16,900 --> 00:00:19,200 meaningful, right? And they can do something 8 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,900 meaningful on their own, but if they, if they get together with 9 00:00:21,900 --> 00:00:25,100 a group of people, you can do something exponentially more 10 00:00:25,100 --> 00:00:27,000 meaningful. Going forward whether they're 11 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,500 leading or just participating in the process. 12 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:35,900 Together, we're stronger. Hello, and welcome to design, 13 00:00:35,900 --> 00:00:39,800 adjacent the podcast that talks about the Nexus of design both 14 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,900 today. And tomorrow, I'm your host, Ben 15 00:00:42,900 --> 00:00:46,800 EF Johnson and today our guest is date Garrett. 16 00:00:47,700 --> 00:00:51,700 Volunteer leader engineer project management. 17 00:00:51,700 --> 00:00:56,400 Enthusiasts, Dave Garrett started by volunteering in the 18 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,400 project, management organization PMI, prior to becoming Ploy by 19 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,599 the organization through a career that sustains startups 20 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,100 and growth positions. He currently serves as the chief 21 00:01:08,100 --> 00:01:12,900 strategy and growth officer of PMI, he works guiding strategy 22 00:01:12,900 --> 00:01:16,700 across the organization to Define test and deliver 23 00:01:16,700 --> 00:01:20,100 solutions that enable individuals and organizations to 24 00:01:20,100 --> 00:01:23,200 have impact and propelled change around the globe. 25 00:01:23,900 --> 00:01:26,900 Dave's been a leader in the development of project 26 00:01:26,900 --> 00:01:30,100 management methodologies and the support of the project, Engine 27 00:01:30,100 --> 00:01:34,400 Institute and was the CEO of project management.com. 28 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,200 Originally got hit got some vodka so today, I'd like to 29 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,500 Welcome to our podcast. Dave Garrett. 30 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:42,800 Thanks Benny. It's wonderful to be here. 31 00:01:43,500 --> 00:01:47,500 It's incredible to have you. I think about looking at your 32 00:01:47,500 --> 00:01:50,200 bio and realizing you started off. 33 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:54,200 As a volunteer leader, I did working with project management 34 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,900 and if this takes me back to those days because project 35 00:01:56,900 --> 00:02:01,300 management is really come into its own over the Two decades. 36 00:02:01,900 --> 00:02:04,500 But there was a time when no one knew what project management was 37 00:02:04,700 --> 00:02:07,700 as a profession. No, no, really, really has. 38 00:02:07,700 --> 00:02:10,100 It's a seems like everything's a project these days. 39 00:02:10,100 --> 00:02:11,800 If you think about it, you think economy? 40 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,600 If you think about all this happening in the world, all the 41 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:15,900 could sell thing that's happening. 42 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,900 The fact that people are managing their own careers in a 43 00:02:18,900 --> 00:02:21,300 way that is, sort of project to project. 44 00:02:21,900 --> 00:02:24,200 There's, you know, project manager world has really grown 45 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,800 expanded and I think become more relevant over time. 46 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,200 It really has even when we started thinking about, Out our 47 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,300 podcast in this space of design adjacent, one of the things I 48 00:02:33,300 --> 00:02:36,500 noticed almost immediately and coming into my role here at 49 00:02:36,500 --> 00:02:41,300 aiga, is the large number of designers who carry the PMP 50 00:02:41,300 --> 00:02:44,800 certification who carry kind of a commitment to project 51 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,500 management in their skill set and a part of their toolkit. 52 00:02:48,100 --> 00:02:50,900 What do you see? As is kind of an overlap between 53 00:02:50,900 --> 00:02:52,900 design management and project management. 54 00:02:52,900 --> 00:02:55,700 As you've seen your time you know it's interesting. 55 00:02:55,700 --> 00:02:58,000 I think I could look at it from two angles, I can look at it 56 00:02:58,000 --> 00:02:59,800 from the angle of the you know what? 57 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,900 And a designer draw from the project manager world and I can 58 00:03:02,900 --> 00:03:06,300 look at it from the angle of what can a project manager draw 59 00:03:06,300 --> 00:03:08,900 from the design world. And I'd start with, actually the 60 00:03:08,900 --> 00:03:11,600 ladder, the design world is all about Vision. 61 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,100 It's all about articulating that Vision with passion and driving 62 00:03:15,100 --> 00:03:18,000 towards a unified goal. And I think that's something 63 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,600 that the project managers can learn a lot from design is 64 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,500 inherently intricate abstract, it's thought-provoking and 65 00:03:25,500 --> 00:03:26,900 that's what you want your project to be. 66 00:03:26,900 --> 00:03:29,100 If you're if you're a project manager, you want to get people 67 00:03:29,100 --> 00:03:30,900 to follow you. You you have to be able to 68 00:03:30,900 --> 00:03:33,600 articulate a vision like that. A really strong Vision in a 69 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,600 project management context. And people will follow people 70 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,600 will have be much more likely to own the result. 71 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,200 We're all driving towards. If you do that, it's 72 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:43,800 interesting. I have an example of that. 73 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,700 Actually. The guy who designed the Tesla 74 00:03:46,700 --> 00:03:51,000 Model S his name was friends with on households housing. 75 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:52,700 Sorry. I always stumble over that house 76 00:03:52,700 --> 00:03:54,900 houses. Yeah he's key was given a set of 77 00:03:54,900 --> 00:03:58,000 drones design parameters as all designers are you know he said 78 00:03:58,100 --> 00:04:01,500 they said you know, we want a Midsize sedan the seat six 79 00:04:01,500 --> 00:04:04,300 people and their luggage comfortably in a design is 80 00:04:04,300 --> 00:04:07,100 functional and engaging. So pretty simple, high level set 81 00:04:07,100 --> 00:04:10,300 of parameters and what he did was he came up with a couple of 82 00:04:10,300 --> 00:04:13,000 principles that really articulated where he was headed 83 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,800 with that design. The model S, you said must be 84 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,300 efficient. It must have drawn attention 85 00:04:18,300 --> 00:04:21,600 without demanding attention, which I think is kind of a cool 86 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,400 like balance, you know, draw without Bandit, you know, 87 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,900 without demanding it and then the model S was also to be 88 00:04:28,300 --> 00:04:30,800 technology Centric. All The technology. 89 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,900 So when you look at this thing, when you operate this thing, it 90 00:04:33,900 --> 00:04:35,400 has to be all about the technology. 91 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,200 That's the message. We want to send as the design 92 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,600 team for the model S and you look at the visual design of the 93 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,400 interior and exterior, it all aligns with principle number 94 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:46,100 one. He got all the people involved 95 00:04:46,100 --> 00:04:49,800 in designing that model S to design things in a way that 96 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:51,900 draws attention without demanding at you, think about 97 00:04:51,900 --> 00:04:54,000 the front end, there's no grill, right? 98 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,000 That sort of quietly says, this is an electric car. 99 00:04:57,300 --> 00:05:01,300 You think about the Frank, you know, That's a really, really 100 00:05:01,300 --> 00:05:03,500 cool but it's kind of hidden, you know, it's kind of subtle, 101 00:05:03,500 --> 00:05:06,600 it's not, it's not a something that screams, you know, you must 102 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,100 pay attention to me. But it's something that really 103 00:05:09,100 --> 00:05:13,700 invites attention, you know? It's really interesting that we 104 00:05:13,700 --> 00:05:17,000 think of the work starting for project but when I think about 105 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,800 designers are approaching what we see in our world today, we 106 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,000 really take a step back and there's a more macro starting 107 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,500 point of a problem and then understandings you mentioned 108 00:05:26,500 --> 00:05:30,200 before that Synergy between project management and And 109 00:05:30,500 --> 00:05:33,900 design management and thinking, what are we trying to do and 110 00:05:33,900 --> 00:05:37,200 solve the problem statement drives, then the project. 111 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,300 Yeah, absolutely. We were thinking a lot about 112 00:05:39,300 --> 00:05:42,900 design, thinking in the context of project management, you know, 113 00:05:42,900 --> 00:05:46,100 it's interesting, 20 years ago, you would be handed a project 114 00:05:46,100 --> 00:05:48,300 that was really well, formed, you know, something that's sort 115 00:05:48,300 --> 00:05:50,900 of everybody knew exactly what you're driving towards and 116 00:05:50,900 --> 00:05:53,100 really the way to get there. You know, the steps were pretty 117 00:05:53,100 --> 00:05:56,200 clear from getting to a to be these days. 118 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,000 There's so much ambiguity in the world. 119 00:05:58,000 --> 00:05:59,800 There's so much ambiguity with everything we're doing. 120 00:05:59,900 --> 00:06:03,300 Especially with technology and and all of that, and you're 121 00:06:03,300 --> 00:06:05,000 really handed a problem more than you are at. 122 00:06:05,008 --> 00:06:08,000 You're handed a project. So, how do you deal with that? 123 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,100 And that's, that's where design thinking comes in. 124 00:06:10,500 --> 00:06:16,300 And we think about it as a way to work with the team. 125 00:06:16,700 --> 00:06:20,200 So you co.design, the problem, you really understand the 126 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,800 problem in a way that you didn't, before you sort of say, 127 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,400 maybe it's not exits, why? And you go through, there are 128 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,600 series of techniques to get you there and if you ask the team, 129 00:06:29,900 --> 00:06:33,200 Sort of redefine the problem in a way that makes the most sense 130 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,900 to the team. The team has more ownership over 131 00:06:35,900 --> 00:06:39,700 it and then you co develop the solution together using design 132 00:06:39,700 --> 00:06:44,500 techniques design, picking techniques and you co-own the 133 00:06:44,500 --> 00:06:47,400 solution in a much stronger way than you would have before. 134 00:06:48,100 --> 00:06:51,600 So you combine that with a strong project vision and you've 135 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,600 got a real great formula for everybody getting this behind 136 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,500 the same concept everyone driving towards the same goals, 137 00:06:57,900 --> 00:07:01,000 shared accountability, pure, Ownership of that result. 138 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,900 And that's really important. So design thinking is a huge 139 00:07:03,900 --> 00:07:07,600 part of project management today and imagine design as well, it 140 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,200 really is and units. We talked about kind of this 141 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:14,100 Nexus and how you take these two disciplines and kind of the best 142 00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:17,400 of it Blends together. Provides that, that long-term 143 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,200 impact both inside the organization in the broader 144 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:21,000 face. You're going to have. 145 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,300 Because you're right the days of having really, really 146 00:07:24,300 --> 00:07:27,300 well-executed solutions that don't align with learning 147 00:07:27,300 --> 00:07:31,000 problems are over within the text of design thinking, you 148 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,800 know, we think about what are the right questions to ask. 149 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,300 It's a solve that problem or to define the problem. 150 00:07:36,500 --> 00:07:40,400 It's techniques like the five wise technique that we often use 151 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,800 there, and then we talked about visualizing an organizing 152 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,500 information effectively. You know, when you make things 153 00:07:46,500 --> 00:07:49,100 visible, whether you're talking about some sort of sticky, note, 154 00:07:49,100 --> 00:07:52,600 technique or a whiteboard e technique to collaborate whether 155 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,600 it's online or in person and we're leading much more to 156 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,200 online these days. It's being able to see that 157 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,700 information, organized it away. You can understand it. 158 00:08:00,708 --> 00:08:03,900 And in a way that you can remember it is super, super 159 00:08:03,900 --> 00:08:06,800 important and mid-sized. It gives you like a forum to 160 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,200 collaborate around and then it's of all about getting the 161 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,500 necessary people engaged and ready to act. 162 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,700 You know, the people with the right skills that that sort of 163 00:08:15,708 --> 00:08:17,800 diverse group of people that's going to come at the problem 164 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,500 from different angles and gather come up with the right solution. 165 00:08:21,700 --> 00:08:24,200 Well it's really telling you as you talked about it in the 166 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,400 diverse set of people in there 20 years ago a lot of the 167 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,600 projects were talked about within single digits Disciplines 168 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,000 or single Industries was a problem. 169 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,600 They were all the same. It coders working on a problem. 170 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,500 All the same construction Engineers working on the 171 00:08:37,508 --> 00:08:38,600 problem. Yeah. 172 00:08:38,700 --> 00:08:43,600 But today we look at it and the best the most successful project 173 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:48,200 management teams and design. Let teams bring in a really 174 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,000 diverse set of skill sets for project. 175 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,100 We made before, you'll have industrial Engineers with 176 00:08:53,100 --> 00:08:56,600 graphic designers with coders with Business Leaders of 177 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:58,700 economists here. Exactly right. 178 00:08:58,700 --> 00:09:01,700 And I think it's Gets to be much more cross-functional, these 179 00:09:01,700 --> 00:09:03,400 days. You know, about the way that 180 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,200 businesses are organized, you end up with people from all 181 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,100 different business functions that gives them a different 182 00:09:08,100 --> 00:09:10,600 perspective. You often even end up with 183 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,100 customers in the equation you know customers in the 184 00:09:13,100 --> 00:09:16,300 collaborative process in a way that they never have been before 185 00:09:16,700 --> 00:09:19,200 because everything is so customer-centric right now. 186 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,200 A lot of these design thinking exercises or show-and-tell 187 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:24,900 techniques you know what do you think of this? 188 00:09:24,900 --> 00:09:27,600 What do you think of that? And the person you want to know 189 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:29,600 is opinion of the most is your customer. 190 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,200 Or if you want to know what they're thinking, what's 191 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:36,500 attractive to them, when you think back over the last 10, 20 192 00:09:36,500 --> 00:09:39,900 years of kind of project management growth in 193 00:09:39,900 --> 00:09:42,600 methodology, what is some of the things that you did you call out 194 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,600 where the methodology is changed over time? 195 00:09:45,100 --> 00:09:47,600 Well, I'd say, you know again like 20 years ago, we were 196 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,500 looking at pretty strictly a very traditional way of magic 197 00:09:51,500 --> 00:09:54,300 projects, a predictive way of managing projects, will do all 198 00:09:54,300 --> 00:09:56,100 of your planning sort of upfront. 199 00:09:56,300 --> 00:10:00,100 Then you execute, and that still works really well for Or say 200 00:10:00,100 --> 00:10:04,000 designing a building or a bridge or a lot of things, where the 201 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,600 path forward is well-worn, you know, where it's where your, you 202 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,100 know, what you need to do is well understood, but when you 203 00:10:11,100 --> 00:10:14,100 deal with more ambiguity, when you deal with things like you 204 00:10:14,100 --> 00:10:17,500 know it projects software projects, changing customer 205 00:10:17,500 --> 00:10:20,300 requirements, changing environments, there's a lot of 206 00:10:20,300 --> 00:10:22,200 ambiguity there. You need to take a more agile 207 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:26,000 approach and we really lean into that as the project management 208 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,600 Institute these days. There's a lot of iteration 209 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,200 involved there you Do a little bit, you learn to do a little 210 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,800 bit, you learn, there's a lot of failing fast in a small way so 211 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:36,900 you don't fail in a big way Downstream. 212 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:41,100 And there's a lot of sort of learning that goes on from this, 213 00:10:41,100 --> 00:10:45,000 from this little failures that you able to disseminate to 214 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,900 others and make sure that others don't make the same mistakes you 215 00:10:47,900 --> 00:10:49,500 do. So you're not sort of starting 216 00:10:49,500 --> 00:10:51,800 from scratch. Every time you're building on 217 00:10:51,900 --> 00:10:55,200 the experience, the cumulative experience of your team of your 218 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,500 organization. It's so interesting. 219 00:10:57,500 --> 00:11:01,500 We talked about kind of adjacent space That you could substitute 220 00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:03,800 designed for each of those phases in which you mentioned 221 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,500 project management. Yeah, I think you're right. 222 00:11:06,700 --> 00:11:10,800 You know, how do we iterate? How do we make kind of small 223 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,800 bets in risk and understand and kind of learn from those faces 224 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,100 that go into it. Let me think about this. 225 00:11:17,100 --> 00:11:19,700 We think about career Journey, it's interesting. 226 00:11:19,700 --> 00:11:24,000 But now, people can set up careers to say I'm a project 227 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:28,300 manager, I'm a program manager. I'm insert design program 228 00:11:28,300 --> 00:11:30,600 manager, but we were just talking talking earlier and how, 229 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,800 you know, it took some time for that even to be a recognized 230 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,500 career path or chatting with OPM and the government in mentioning 231 00:11:37,500 --> 00:11:43,000 talk a little bit about how PMI is work to kind of expand the 232 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,300 notion of what it means to be a project manager. 233 00:11:45,300 --> 00:11:49,200 Yeah yeah, it's interesting. You know many years ago again 234 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:52,100 I'll go back, 20, 30 years ago and PMI has been around. 235 00:11:52,100 --> 00:11:56,900 For 52 project management was considered more skill rather 236 00:11:56,900 --> 00:11:59,700 than a profession and it's an interesting. 237 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:01,400 Thing. I think it's a skill set that 238 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,000 many many people need. You know, we estimate probably 239 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,200 90 million people across the world. 240 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:10,300 Need the skill of project management and and we end up 241 00:12:10,300 --> 00:12:12,100 calling those people changemakers the broader 242 00:12:12,100 --> 00:12:14,700 audience of change, makers out there, people who need to drive 243 00:12:14,700 --> 00:12:17,900 change in a positive way. They met some large portion of 244 00:12:17,900 --> 00:12:20,700 the may become professional project managers, and some point 245 00:12:20,700 --> 00:12:22,300 that's a great way of thinking about it, right? 246 00:12:22,300 --> 00:12:24,200 But they're empowered through the skillset. 247 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,700 Yes, to be delivered change rightly then they may become, 248 00:12:27,700 --> 00:12:29,600 you know, professional project managers p.m. 249 00:12:29,700 --> 00:12:33,800 PS at some point Downstream when that's appropriate for them. 250 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:38,300 And once they do the interesting thing around, being a project 251 00:12:38,300 --> 00:12:41,000 manager, professional project manager is the transferability 252 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,100 of those skills. Think about like the ways that 253 00:12:44,100 --> 00:12:46,500 you can move from industry to industry or function to 254 00:12:46,500 --> 00:12:49,100 function. It offers a lot of flexibility 255 00:12:49,100 --> 00:12:52,800 and in today's world where we're living in a gig economy, that's 256 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:57,100 a huge advantage to have that that toolkit as part of who you 257 00:12:57,100 --> 00:12:59,600 are and have that label of professional. 258 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,500 Project manager be a part of who you are as well. 259 00:13:03,300 --> 00:13:06,900 When you think about project Management's growth, it isn't 260 00:13:06,900 --> 00:13:09,900 something that's just been isolated to the US which really 261 00:13:09,900 --> 00:13:13,000 talking about a truly Global phenomenon in terms of the 262 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,400 growth of the profession. Now it's absolutely Global. 263 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,100 It's absolutely Global and should China. 264 00:13:18,100 --> 00:13:20,400 We are absolutely exploding. You know, in terms of 265 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,600 certifications just as one example, you think about the 266 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,400 Belton Road and there should have all the right construction 267 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,900 that's happening over there and, you know, not to mention the 268 00:13:28,908 --> 00:13:31,600 construction this Opening here, you know, it's a infrastructure 269 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,600 bills and that sort of thing. And then just globally 270 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,600 everything that's going on Project managers, are in demand 271 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,200 more than ever before. You know, if you look at the top 272 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:43,500 10 lists of in-demand careers project management is always 273 00:13:43,900 --> 00:13:46,900 always on there. So we're definitely growing when 274 00:13:46,900 --> 00:13:50,300 you think about kind of the growth of a fashion and the 275 00:13:50,300 --> 00:13:55,600 project manager of 2022. What advice do you have a wet? 276 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,000 What Vision do you have for the project manager of 2030? 277 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:00,400 Yeah. You know, it's really 278 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,000 interesting. You know, we have focused a lot 279 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,800 on technical skills over the years, you know, I do you manage 280 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,200 stakeholders, how do you plan? How do you know, execute in 281 00:14:09,208 --> 00:14:12,500 various ways? Now, we're leaning more into 282 00:14:13,100 --> 00:14:15,700 what we call power skills, you know, which are soft skills. 283 00:14:15,700 --> 00:14:18,100 Things like collaborative, leadership, empathy 284 00:14:18,500 --> 00:14:20,700 collaborative study leadership, was talking a little bit about 285 00:14:20,700 --> 00:14:23,500 during our design thinking discussion, you how do you get a 286 00:14:23,500 --> 00:14:26,800 team to drive forward together in a collaborative way? 287 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,600 And then empathy is so very important. 288 00:14:29,700 --> 00:14:31,700 These days. When the thing about being 289 00:14:31,700 --> 00:14:34,200 remote is you need to connect with people, you still need to 290 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,700 connect in a strong way. How do you do that? 291 00:14:36,700 --> 00:14:39,100 You need to have empathy for them as a human being. 292 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,400 You can't just treat them as like another sort of gear in the 293 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,900 Box, you know? So, empathy is critical in terms 294 00:14:45,900 --> 00:14:49,600 of a soft skill or power skill and then on the other side of 295 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:51,500 what we call our talent triangle. 296 00:14:51,500 --> 00:14:54,200 So there's the sort of this technical skills or the ways of 297 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:55,900 working. Then there's power skills and 298 00:14:55,900 --> 00:14:59,600 then there's business Acumen. You think about this? 299 00:14:59,700 --> 00:15:03,000 Asians being pushed down in organizations these days you 300 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,200 don't have decisions all being made at the top anymore. 301 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,300 You haven't been pushed down to an appropriate level. 302 00:15:07,300 --> 00:15:10,600 The people who those decisions are getting pushed down to need, 303 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,500 to understand the impact of their decisions on the people 304 00:15:13,500 --> 00:15:15,700 upstream and downstream from them, the impact of their 305 00:15:15,700 --> 00:15:18,900 decisions on the strategy, the impact of their decisions on the 306 00:15:18,908 --> 00:15:22,000 project, they need to have a more holistic view of the world 307 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,400 and the business itself. So they need to have the Acumen 308 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:26,600 to be able to do that. All those things are really 309 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,100 important and then just as a layer on top of all of Of it. 310 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,300 Digital fluency is something that we consider very, very 311 00:15:33,300 --> 00:15:36,800 important understanding the technology and how it can help 312 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,100 you drive forward on these projects, or how it can be woven 313 00:15:40,100 --> 00:15:43,400 into what it is that you're doing in a way that makes you 314 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:44,900 more effective makes the project. 315 00:15:44,900 --> 00:15:48,000 More effective makes your team. More effective makes you more 316 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,100 successful in driving towards that outcome. 317 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,400 It's interesting that you built it on the triangle. 318 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:57,600 When we were doing our recent design POV research and we're 319 00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:59,600 looking we ask the basic question. 320 00:15:59,700 --> 00:16:03,000 And what it means to be a designer today and we came up 321 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,900 similar kind of three points. We came up with skill, set the 322 00:16:06,900 --> 00:16:10,500 tools and things that you have a mindset, which is being open to 323 00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:13,300 the Divine speaking space, and then an impact set. 324 00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:17,500 Well, you can have how you drive spaces is what it means to be 325 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,700 contemporary designer. Today, that's really cool what's 326 00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:24,900 the impacts and what the impacts that is, we have conversations 327 00:16:24,900 --> 00:16:27,500 that sometimes that are friends and we are definitely our 328 00:16:27,500 --> 00:16:29,500 friends at Engineers Engineers often. 329 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,400 Often look to solve problems for the sake of solving problems. 330 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:37,100 Designers look to solve problems that have human impact that have 331 00:16:37,100 --> 00:16:39,300 human need at heart. So it's not just solving the 332 00:16:39,300 --> 00:16:42,200 problems at solving, the problem to make a human experience 333 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,000 better. So it can be something as small 334 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:49,500 as the way we interact with our screen to something as large as 335 00:16:49,500 --> 00:16:51,000 the way we interact with the world. 336 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,600 But looking for, how can I take this expertise? 337 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,000 How can I take the rigor and the skills that I have with the 338 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:01,200 creativity and apply it to something that Matters, right? 339 00:17:01,300 --> 00:17:04,400 As we said we can solve it, we can solve anything but not 340 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,000 everything is the focus is going to have the impact. 341 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,000 You know, that that's a beautiful thing and in the 342 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,300 project manager will be talked about the difference between 343 00:17:11,300 --> 00:17:16,400 outputs and outcomes, right? You know, so I now put is like, 344 00:17:16,700 --> 00:17:18,300 what are the tangible thing that you're producing. 345 00:17:18,300 --> 00:17:20,599 You might be, if you're a consultant producing some sort 346 00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:23,599 of deliverable, but what is that deliverable? 347 00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:25,599 What is the impact of the deliverable going to be? 348 00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:29,000 That's the impact. That's the outcome that you're 349 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,800 you sure you're aiming for and you try to get teams to drive 350 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,000 towards outcomes rather than outputs. 351 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,500 So I'm similar concept. So when we think about, you 352 00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:42,300 know, kind of the future, what are your thoughts on what this 353 00:17:42,300 --> 00:17:48,300 next generation of work is going to need and look like, you know, 354 00:17:48,300 --> 00:17:51,200 I know that all bets are off at to the last 24 months kind of 355 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,100 thrown in the air. But what are you seeing from the 356 00:17:54,100 --> 00:17:57,000 PMI perspective and your kind of global view of the world? 357 00:17:57,900 --> 00:18:01,400 What is the future of our work experience looking like you know 358 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,800 it's interesting, it's a, it's going to be more remote no 359 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,600 matter what, you know, rather whether it's more hybrid, or 360 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:12,100 just more purely remote is a question but you you're sitting 361 00:18:12,100 --> 00:18:14,200 a lot of employees. I'm seeing a lot of them use. 362 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,300 A lot of the companies, say, their employees are almost 363 00:18:17,300 --> 00:18:20,800 demanding to continue to work with them, often exclusively 364 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:25,700 remote, and in my mind is to really key factors when you need 365 00:18:25,700 --> 00:18:28,000 to think about when working remotely, I mean there's He sort 366 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,300 of has a lot of advice out there around like, you know, do this, 367 00:18:31,300 --> 00:18:33,300 do that. You know, just sort of Point 368 00:18:33,300 --> 00:18:36,100 advice around techniques you can use, right? 369 00:18:36,100 --> 00:18:40,300 The me, if you think about disability and connectedness is 370 00:18:40,300 --> 00:18:43,300 a lot in that, in terms, in terms of just being able to 371 00:18:43,308 --> 00:18:46,100 think through any problems, you're facing it a bespoke way. 372 00:18:46,100 --> 00:18:49,500 So visibility of the work, right? 373 00:18:49,500 --> 00:18:54,600 Visibility of the person and then connectedness to the work 374 00:18:54,900 --> 00:18:57,400 connectedness to the people around you. 375 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,400 Those are the ways that I think about remote work because it's 376 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,700 harder to be visible. When you're working remotely, it 377 00:19:03,700 --> 00:19:07,600 is harder to be connected and the visibility of the work bit. 378 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,900 We talked a lot about that in project management, particularly 379 00:19:10,900 --> 00:19:13,700 agile, project management, making the work visible, you 380 00:19:13,700 --> 00:19:15,700 know, whether it's the kind of design thinking stuff that we 381 00:19:15,700 --> 00:19:17,300 were talking about earlier, tal, right? 382 00:19:17,300 --> 00:19:19,500 Or it's a kanban board, a backlog of the work. 383 00:19:19,500 --> 00:19:21,000 This is all the stuff we need to do. 384 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,400 And who's going to do it? You know, making sure everybody 385 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,900 has a common view of that. So you're not constantly 386 00:19:25,900 --> 00:19:29,200 creating before reading and Having unnecessary, Zoom 387 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,300 meetings, that everybody's bored at, you know, you just sort of 388 00:19:32,300 --> 00:19:34,400 common reference points and making the work visible. 389 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,200 And that's important. The connectedness piece is 390 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:39,700 really interesting. We've been working with this 391 00:19:39,700 --> 00:19:41,600 Harvard. Professor, is name is James 392 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,200 King, okay? And he talks about like what it 393 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,500 means to be connected, right? And he's got three factors. 394 00:19:47,500 --> 00:19:50,300 When he thinks of connectedness, he thinks I'm thinking about how 395 00:19:50,300 --> 00:19:52,500 connected I am to you, Benny, you know, I think. 396 00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:54,900 Do you make my life easier? Mmm. 397 00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:57,500 Do you make my life better, right? 398 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,300 Right. Or do you make my life safer, 399 00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:03,700 right? And so we get caught up in like 400 00:20:03,700 --> 00:20:08,500 techniques around say you know psychological safety is a Hot 401 00:20:08,500 --> 00:20:11,200 Topic these days you know across the board you know everybody 402 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,900 psychological safety that map's break back to do I make you feel 403 00:20:14,900 --> 00:20:16,100 safer. Right. 404 00:20:16,100 --> 00:20:20,400 You know as an employee or as a co-worker you think about you 405 00:20:20,408 --> 00:20:22,900 know, better you think about the easier. 406 00:20:22,900 --> 00:20:26,000 There's there's our there's a really interesting lenses to 407 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:27,500 look at your relationships through. 408 00:20:28,100 --> 00:20:30,700 You know, in my MRI doing that for you or you doing that, for 409 00:20:30,700 --> 00:20:33,600 me, that's going to increase or decrease our level of 410 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,800 connectedness. So so and then you think about 411 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:38,400 the same thing with a work, right? 412 00:20:38,500 --> 00:20:40,900 Right? Do I feel safe doing this work 413 00:20:41,100 --> 00:20:44,200 and I feel safe enough to take the chances that I need to take 414 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,000 with the team. Do it, you feel safe enough to 415 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,200 really to get instead of the team can get the most out of me. 416 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,700 You know, what I can contribute do I feel that level of safety, 417 00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:57,200 you know, and is this easier easier? 418 00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,600 Ting. Do I feel like I'm not on a 419 00:20:59,608 --> 00:21:03,400 bunch of wasted time, sort of Zoom meeting that kind of thing, 420 00:21:03,700 --> 00:21:06,100 is it easier for me to make an impact? 421 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,800 You know, that kind of thing. And then the better part is 422 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,000 really interesting too is what we're doing in alignment with my 423 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,200 career goals. You know, when we were 424 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,900 successful, am I successful personally in my building 425 00:21:17,900 --> 00:21:21,600 towards something I can put on my resume and my aligned in that 426 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,400 way. So do all of my discretionary 427 00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:27,400 I'm motivated to commit my discretionary time to this. 428 00:21:27,700 --> 00:21:29,200 Because I know it's good for me, it's good for you. 429 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,100 It's good for all of us and we're all driving towards 430 00:21:32,100 --> 00:21:33,700 something. That's, that's a win-win for 431 00:21:33,700 --> 00:21:36,300 everybody involved. So I think again, what do you 432 00:21:36,308 --> 00:21:38,800 think about remote work? Visibility and connected is so 433 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,300 huge. And the two lenses you can use 434 00:21:41,300 --> 00:21:42,900 to think they're just about any problem. 435 00:21:42,900 --> 00:21:47,200 You have with measurement work. It's really interesting to think 436 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,500 about it in there, you know? Yeah. 437 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,700 And it's active safety. I think it did actually extends 438 00:21:52,700 --> 00:21:55,900 into conversations about trust architectures as well. 439 00:21:56,100 --> 00:21:58,900 You can take this back to kind of Stephen Covey conversations 440 00:21:58,900 --> 00:22:02,000 about trust, yeah, being the relationship connection and then 441 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,900 the credibility are confident that you can deliver on the 442 00:22:04,908 --> 00:22:08,000 promise in a space. That goes into it as well. 443 00:22:08,300 --> 00:22:12,200 You know what, I think and I'm seeing in and I'm sure there's 444 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,200 early data to start to look at this. 445 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,500 I wonder about the future of work as we work through Cycles, 446 00:22:18,900 --> 00:22:21,100 right? Yeah so we're all addressing how 447 00:22:21,100 --> 00:22:24,500 we work based on having a long experience of working in a 448 00:22:24,500 --> 00:22:28,300 physical concrete way. And so we are all in our first 449 00:22:28,300 --> 00:22:32,200 kind of cycle or two for most people of being remote. 450 00:22:32,500 --> 00:22:35,100 Now, you know we've talked about having remote teams around the 451 00:22:35,100 --> 00:22:37,800 globe and if you've worked in global space, that was a natural 452 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,900 Part of Your World, right? But so many people didn't have 453 00:22:40,900 --> 00:22:44,800 that experience. So now we move to a space where 454 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:46,600 we're going to have a new generation that comes in. 455 00:22:47,300 --> 00:22:50,800 We started seeing people wanting to get back in person, 456 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,400 especially with design and collaboration of innovation. 457 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,100 Think so much of it had in person. 458 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,800 Human connectedness. We're starting to get bubbles 459 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:00,900 of. I like to get a team back. 460 00:23:00,900 --> 00:23:04,800 Oh, David example, we just did a fully hybrid conference in which 461 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:09,300 we didn't Prejudice either side in person, or, or remotely to 462 00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:13,200 streaming, and going in, and we had almost equal participation. 463 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,600 And they were all the right reasons why people love the 464 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,900 streaming version and then they were all the right reasons why 465 00:23:19,900 --> 00:23:21,600 people wanted to gather together. 466 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,400 And we found these fun spots that were in between where You 467 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,000 know, by doing this remote streaming, we had folks, who 468 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,500 could attend in person and we've all been there on conferences 469 00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:33,900 where you have to go take another meeting in between, and 470 00:23:33,900 --> 00:23:35,000 you have to leave the conference. 471 00:23:35,500 --> 00:23:37,100 But with our streaming setup, right? 472 00:23:37,100 --> 00:23:38,500 I had several people come to me and go. 473 00:23:38,500 --> 00:23:41,600 I was able to keep Pace with the conference while I did my other 474 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,800 work. Okay, then jump back in and it 475 00:23:44,808 --> 00:23:47,500 was, you know, we took a crack and say, wow we've created these 476 00:23:47,500 --> 00:23:51,800 three spaces of experience. And I from that point, I can't 477 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,600 see going back to a space. That doesn't have each of those 478 00:23:54,600 --> 00:24:00,000 moments but I just wonder, you know, what do we look like five 479 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,200 years from now? If there's a desire of folks to 480 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,700 actually have more time together and what does that physically? 481 00:24:06,700 --> 00:24:09,200 What does that look like for us? Yeah. 482 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:10,100 Yeah. And hopefully there's 483 00:24:10,100 --> 00:24:12,900 environments that allow us to do the right thing, right? 484 00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:16,400 Work the right way, what the way that's most effective most 485 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:20,100 enjoyable you know because I think sometimes sometimes that's 486 00:24:20,100 --> 00:24:21,800 the driver you know, actually right. 487 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,500 You know, we all said, you know, maybe we're all going to, you 488 00:24:24,500 --> 00:24:26,400 know, we have this assumption, we're all going to come back to 489 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,500 the office at some point and then people started telling us, 490 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:31,700 no, you know what, I want to go out to restaurants with my 491 00:24:31,700 --> 00:24:34,000 friends, but I don't necessarily want to go back to the office. 492 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:34,600 Right. Right. 493 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,100 Right. And I think people that were 494 00:24:37,100 --> 00:24:39,600 really are really excited. That what they're doing and they 495 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,400 have the space to do it in their lives. 496 00:24:42,700 --> 00:24:44,800 Maybe want to get back together like with your conference, 497 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,000 right? Maybe that that half the people 498 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,700 that came. They came because they were 499 00:24:48,700 --> 00:24:51,500 going to have a fun time with people that they like right, you 500 00:24:51,508 --> 00:24:54,300 know, maybe some of the people that didn't maybe just didn't 501 00:24:54,300 --> 00:24:57,600 have that personal space, you know, to make in their lives and 502 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,700 they had to, it's a lot easier just to tune in remotely as I 503 00:25:00,700 --> 00:25:03,700 can, you know? Or maybe alongside other work 504 00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:06,600 like you were saying, you know, I could be composing an email 505 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,200 while I'm listening to, you know. 506 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,900 No gems of wisdom from Betty Johnson and you know, and that's 507 00:25:11,900 --> 00:25:13,500 great, right? Because they're still getting 508 00:25:13,500 --> 00:25:15,700 something out of the conference and still participating in their 509 00:25:15,700 --> 00:25:18,700 own way. We've seen several of the 510 00:25:18,700 --> 00:25:22,000 leading design organizations, use this time to radically 511 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,800 rethink their centers of excellence, but design spaces, 512 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,400 but, you know, they're still triggered on people coming in 513 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,300 and I'm just excited to see how that unfolds through those 514 00:25:31,300 --> 00:25:33,800 organizations, who are kind of taking a lead or taking that 515 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,000 small bet to maybe it's not everyday, but we have a reason 516 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,300 to bring people together. And then have them go for that 517 00:25:40,300 --> 00:25:42,700 moment and do things that other locations and come back. 518 00:25:43,500 --> 00:25:45,800 Yeah, I think it's wonderful. When we were just starting our 519 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,500 Wicked problem, solving tool kit, which is our design 520 00:25:48,500 --> 00:25:52,600 thinking toolkit we actually pivoted, we have physical, like, 521 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,800 cards, you would use in person to help people with their 522 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,900 techniques. But then we pivoted to Miro 523 00:25:58,900 --> 00:26:01,400 boards, there's mirror and there's murals, you have this is 524 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,600 sort of not versions of white boards and you know we've got we 525 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,200 developed templates in those to allow people. 526 00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:11,800 Opal to, to do the same exercises virtually an early on 527 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,400 in the, in the, in the covid crisis. 528 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,100 There was, there was a lot of sort of hesitancy there. 529 00:26:18,100 --> 00:26:21,200 And people did really didn't understand how to use the, you 530 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,700 know, mural board appropriately and that sort of thing and over 531 00:26:23,700 --> 00:26:27,900 time it's become far more popular than the physical Medium 532 00:26:27,900 --> 00:26:30,900 as well. So I think I think people have 533 00:26:30,900 --> 00:26:32,400 learned how to collaborate online. 534 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,700 They've learned how to design if you will online in ways that 535 00:26:36,700 --> 00:26:39,600 they wouldn't have been able to Four years ago we're in that 536 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,100 cycle. Like you were saying in a deep 537 00:26:41,100 --> 00:26:45,800 enough into the cycle to be a little more mature around remote 538 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,600 work, you know. So people are getting used to 539 00:26:47,608 --> 00:26:51,600 that kind of thing. And we've seen some platforms 540 00:26:52,900 --> 00:26:55,200 are using some platforms in Latin America. 541 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,400 A couple of them, the names Escape me at the moment where 542 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,300 it's an online conferencing platform. 543 00:27:00,300 --> 00:27:02,900 And you, and I and three other people might be sitting at a 544 00:27:02,900 --> 00:27:06,600 table watching the programming, you know, participating the 545 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,200 programming, as we will be able to talk. 546 00:27:08,300 --> 00:27:11,700 To each other within our little group versus everybody being 547 00:27:11,700 --> 00:27:15,100 broadcast to and broadcast back. So there's there's different 548 00:27:15,100 --> 00:27:17,800 models, you leveraging, the technology now that you can 549 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,000 apply. And again, I think it's all 550 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,900 about, you know, finding the right model for the situation 551 00:27:22,900 --> 00:27:26,000 for you for the people involved. So everybody can work 552 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,300 effectively. I think it's a really great way 553 00:27:28,300 --> 00:27:32,100 to think about it and kind of continually iterating the way 554 00:27:32,100 --> 00:27:34,800 the way we work. And those those kind of 555 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,600 Investments and trade-offs that we make right since because the 556 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,200 other pieces What may work for me today and they need something 557 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:42,800 different tomorrow. Right? 558 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:44,900 Right. Absolutely having that ability, 559 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,200 we talked about this with resources that time that we will 560 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,300 build resources in advance. You may not need it today as a 561 00:27:50,700 --> 00:27:53,600 designer or project manager, but we're building it because we can 562 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,100 see this Arc that you're going on. 563 00:27:55,100 --> 00:27:56,400 You're probably going to need it tomorrow. 564 00:27:56,700 --> 00:27:58,900 Yeah, we've done that. With a lot of our business start 565 00:27:58,900 --> 00:28:03,200 materials as well. We've seen that 80% of designers 566 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:04,800 will eventually start their own business. 567 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,500 So whether you're thinking about it today or not, you know, we've 568 00:28:07,500 --> 00:28:09,700 created resources Isis. So that when you do decide to 569 00:28:09,700 --> 00:28:12,100 start your business, we've already been thinking about it 570 00:28:12,100 --> 00:28:15,000 for you, that's very cool and just diving into the 571 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,600 entrepreneurial kind of stuff is good for your career. 572 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,900 No matter what. You know it was you to think in 573 00:28:19,900 --> 00:28:23,100 a more business-minded way and think about the way you develop 574 00:28:23,100 --> 00:28:26,100 products or design things or design products in a different 575 00:28:26,100 --> 00:28:28,200 way entirely. So that we're sure everybody. 576 00:28:28,500 --> 00:28:30,900 I was going to ask you about that because you've always been 577 00:28:30,900 --> 00:28:34,200 been entrepreneurial and so this kind of a part of the secret 578 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,500 super powers even when working in other organizations, you 579 00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:39,900 know? Little bit about about you know 580 00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:42,300 with it entrepreneurial stance has meant for you. 581 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,200 Yeah I think it's important to always have a growth mindset. 582 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:47,500 You know. It's important to always say, 583 00:28:47,500 --> 00:28:51,700 again, just kind of really focus on what is most meaningful for 584 00:28:51,700 --> 00:28:54,600 you for the organization. Something that matters here. 585 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,300 We talk about building products that matter internal 2 p.m. 586 00:28:57,300 --> 00:29:01,600 I the division that I'm lead is about strategy and strategic 587 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,400 alliances corporate development like Ma and that sort of thing. 588 00:29:04,700 --> 00:29:08,100 And Innovation, so roughly All Things New within PMI. 589 00:29:08,300 --> 00:29:10,000 Why? So we think about it from a 590 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,000 strategy perspective, you know what are the gaps in our product 591 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,100 portfolio and we also think you know, like you're saying you 592 00:29:16,100 --> 00:29:18,700 look to the Future and think what is the future going to look 593 00:29:18,700 --> 00:29:22,900 like what are project managers going to need in the future and 594 00:29:22,900 --> 00:29:24,700 drive, everything from that perspective. 595 00:29:24,700 --> 00:29:27,900 You know what, what you're finding out from your audience 596 00:29:28,300 --> 00:29:30,100 minutes and minute in terms of what they need now? 597 00:29:30,100 --> 00:29:32,700 And then sort of anticipate what they might need in the future 598 00:29:32,700 --> 00:29:35,600 and test. All those things repeatedly in a 599 00:29:35,608 --> 00:29:38,200 way that really helps you get to the right answer because your 600 00:29:38,300 --> 00:29:41,700 Dancers never the right one you know it's always about driving 601 00:29:41,700 --> 00:29:45,400 towards that better and better answer never getting to 602 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,300 Perfection but trying to get a better one and even if you have 603 00:29:48,300 --> 00:29:50,500 the perfect one, you know, at some point in time, it's not 604 00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:51,900 going to be the perfect one tomorrow. 605 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,200 You know, it's great. That kind of that Innovation 606 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,600 renovation and Revolution all at once. 607 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,100 Yeah, yeah. You know, we often, you know, we 608 00:30:02,100 --> 00:30:05,500 have a listeners who come in on our podcast and a lot of 609 00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:09,500 students are lidar meet career. People who are changing thinking 610 00:30:09,500 --> 00:30:11,300 about it, how often asked this question? 611 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,800 You know, what, career advice, what things would you recommend 612 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,100 that people study? Or hold onto? 613 00:30:17,100 --> 00:30:21,700 Is they start to craft a profession that's in project 614 00:30:21,700 --> 00:30:25,100 management design project management are just managing in 615 00:30:25,100 --> 00:30:26,800 the future? Yeah, you know, I talked a 616 00:30:26,808 --> 00:30:30,200 little bit about or towel triangle earlier and I talked 617 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:31,400 about this trip, different angles. 618 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,900 So sort of understanding ways of working is understanding how our 619 00:30:34,900 --> 00:30:37,300 skills are acquiring power skills, so that you can 620 00:30:37,300 --> 00:30:39,500 influence people. And then there's the business 621 00:30:39,500 --> 00:30:43,400 Acumen side of things, the power skills, bit, The Village, 622 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,600 whatever, whatever. You know, please show you what 623 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,900 to apply their. A lot of these things are very 624 00:30:47,900 --> 00:30:50,200 true, you know, you can drive things forward, but a better 625 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,900 with the team. So I would understand how to 626 00:30:52,900 --> 00:30:57,400 work with people how to lead and I would be a student of people 627 00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,200 at the same time. You know you can be assumed if 628 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,100 you're disciplined but I think really understanding people as 629 00:31:03,100 --> 00:31:07,600 human beings understanding what drives them understanding how 630 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,500 you can align Them ineffective ways is hugely important and 631 00:31:11,500 --> 00:31:15,500 undervalued, you know, I think it's sort of the glue that 632 00:31:15,500 --> 00:31:17,800 brings us all together and makes us work together. 633 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,100 More effectively is understanding each other better. 634 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,300 So, I would understand your discipline. 635 00:31:22,900 --> 00:31:24,900 I would understand how to work with people and understand 636 00:31:24,900 --> 00:31:27,500 people themselves. That would be my advice anyway 637 00:31:27,900 --> 00:31:31,300 for what it's worth. Well, Dave, I can't think of a 638 00:31:31,300 --> 00:31:35,600 better way to close our conversation, that was powerful 639 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:40,200 and poetic and right on point. At the future and growth and 640 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,300 career is all about you and people and your relationships in 641 00:31:43,300 --> 00:31:44,800 there. Yeah. 642 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,800 Well thank you so much. Thank you for having me. 643 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,500 I really appreciate it. I thank you for being a part of 644 00:31:49,500 --> 00:31:53,900 it and just, you know, your presence and your leadership and 645 00:31:53,900 --> 00:31:58,000 thinking about how we use our disciplines to change the world 646 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,000 around us. So today I would like to thank 647 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,300 Dave Garrett Chief strategy and growth officer of the project 648 00:32:05,300 --> 00:32:08,300 management Institute, and giving us his career. 649 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,400 Earth from volunteer leader, within the organization to Chief 650 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:17,100 strategy, officer to helping to build a more Dynamic and 651 00:32:17,100 --> 00:32:19,400 impactful and effective world around us. 652 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:21,600 Thank you, Dave. I appreciate you. 653 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,500 Thanks so much. We invite you to join us. 654 00:32:24,500 --> 00:32:28,000 Next time, we will continue to look at the world around us and 655 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:32,300 how a design impacts today and tomorrow, thank you, show notes 656 00:32:32,300 --> 00:32:35,300 for this episode will be available on AIG a.org. 657 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,800 Please subscribe to our show on anchor a Apple podcasts Google 658 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,000 play Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. 659 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,000 Aiga is designed adjacent podcasts and its contents. 660 00:32:47,100 --> 00:32:51,100 Are the copyright of aiga the professional association for 661 00:32:51,100 --> 00:32:55,200 design All Rights Reserved. Any redistribution or 662 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,900 reproduction of part or all of the contents in any form is 663 00:32:58,900 --> 00:33:02,100 prohibited without aig's Express written permission. 664 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,200 My name is Li Xian zhuang until next time.