1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,600 There's something that happens when a woman does something 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:06,100 physical, I have tried to figure it out, but if you've never done 3 00:00:06,100 --> 00:00:10,300 something physical in your life outside of ride, a bike or swim 4 00:00:10,300 --> 00:00:12,900 or go camping or something, but somebody teaches you, how to use 5 00:00:12,900 --> 00:00:15,700 a cordless drill and put something together or chop saw 6 00:00:15,700 --> 00:00:18,600 and put a crown molding. There is just nothing like it in 7 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,200 life for women. It is a singular experience 8 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:25,100 probably like motherhood, right? Having a child, once it happens, 9 00:00:25,100 --> 00:00:27,800 it is just the person has changed, they have so much 10 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,800 confidence. So I've watched At that happen 11 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:32,900 over and over and over again. But I've watched them teach 12 00:00:32,900 --> 00:00:35,200 other people. I'm in love with that feeling of 13 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:42,500 watching them transform. Hello, and welcome to designer 14 00:00:42,500 --> 00:00:46,500 Jensen, the podcast that talks about the Nexus of design both 15 00:00:46,500 --> 00:00:50,200 today. And tomorrow, I'm host be any at 16 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:56,600 Johnson and today, our guest is none other than Camille but for 17 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:02,600 more than 25 years she's been Building kitchen and helping 18 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:04,400 women. Create something beautiful. 19 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,800 Yes, for design adjacent, we're going to start off talking about 20 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:14,400 kitchen redesigns, but not as our sole subject, but as proxy 21 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:19,200 to also look at how we Inspire those around us to create 22 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,800 something beautiful Camille started, her journey in a rather 23 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,000 unexpected way though. She was a business development 24 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,000 consultant. She taught marketing did rat 25 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,300 students in California. And while she loved helping 26 00:01:31,300 --> 00:01:35,000 people start and grow businesses, she didn't steal. 27 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,600 Its she had a chance to be very creative with her hands. 28 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:43,900 So she took the DraStic step in shut down her business and went 29 00:01:43,900 --> 00:01:49,100 back to basics. Yes she dug ditches hung drywall 30 00:01:49,100 --> 00:01:53,200 in the beginning but slowly over time she realized that she loved 31 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,000 Car Country. Enjoying the Carpenters Union 32 00:01:56,700 --> 00:01:59,100 that letter down the path of exploring different types of 33 00:01:59,100 --> 00:02:02,800 carpentry. And eventually falling in love 34 00:02:02,900 --> 00:02:05,400 with kitchens. So today we're going to talk 35 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:09,600 about building businesses design, carpentry. 36 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,400 And yes, kitchens, welcome Cavill. 37 00:02:12,900 --> 00:02:15,500 Hey, Benny nice to be here. It's really fun to have you 38 00:02:15,508 --> 00:02:17,800 here. And I'd love to talk about your 39 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,900 kind of Journey to this point. So you were working in a 40 00:02:20,900 --> 00:02:23,000 professional space. You involving marketing and 41 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,900 business development, and then you decided to take a step up 42 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,600 and not really a step back but a step off. 43 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:31,600 To do something completely nailed. 44 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,400 Talk to us a bit about that experience in that moment, but 45 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:40,000 really changing your world. So I was gone to school and for 46 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,100 business, and development and marketing, and I love the 47 00:02:42,100 --> 00:02:44,000 creativity of building a business, and starting a 48 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,900 business, but it was very mental is, you know, you're behind a 49 00:02:46,908 --> 00:02:48,700 computer, you're dressed in a suit all day. 50 00:02:48,700 --> 00:02:52,600 You're meeting clients all day, you're inside all day and then a 51 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:54,400 part of that. It was also teaching graduate 52 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,000 level student, marketing classes, but I was still doing 53 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:58,200 the same thing. I was in a car. 54 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,800 I was driving to a classroom In class, till 10:00 at night. 55 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:04,900 And I was just in my head all the time, right? 56 00:03:04,900 --> 00:03:08,300 And that eventually led me to basically have depression. 57 00:03:08,300 --> 00:03:10,500 I didn't realize I had depression at the time of 58 00:03:10,500 --> 00:03:13,400 depression, I obviously probably had it for a couple of years, 59 00:03:13,500 --> 00:03:15,200 right? But I think, is anybody, that's 60 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,500 a very ambitious, a-type personality. 61 00:03:17,500 --> 00:03:21,300 I just through sheer will just kept working through it until I 62 00:03:21,300 --> 00:03:23,700 eventually became suicidal basically. 63 00:03:23,700 --> 00:03:28,200 And I had to ask my mom for help and that was like the first time 64 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,700 to reach out and ask for help as a really a-type personality. 65 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,800 And so that was a journey for me of really a rediscovery of 66 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,000 myself because I just hadn't given myself even a second of 67 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,600 chance to think about what I was doing, outside of the fact that 68 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,400 I was good at it, which is a right big misnomers. 69 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:46,300 You might be good at something, but it's not really good for 70 00:03:46,300 --> 00:03:49,700 you. So my therapist actually taught 71 00:03:49,700 --> 00:03:52,300 me that and so I realized, oh, this is just, this job is just 72 00:03:52,300 --> 00:03:54,200 killing me. It's not, which is a very 73 00:03:54,700 --> 00:03:56,800 powerful lesson I was going to say, that's an incredibly 74 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,800 powerful lesson. Yes, it is actually. 75 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:04,400 And so I eventually shut that business down and I moved back 76 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:06,800 in with my mother and which was horrible because I was very 77 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,100 successful but I couldn't take care of myself. 78 00:04:09,100 --> 00:04:10,400 I literally couldn't take care of myself. 79 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,900 So I just gone just really buried in and it was a period of 80 00:04:14,900 --> 00:04:18,500 time before I was able to kind of really try to ReDiscover, 81 00:04:18,500 --> 00:04:21,500 what it was going to make me happy and eventually I realized 82 00:04:21,500 --> 00:04:23,700 that it was this physicality. I was missing. 83 00:04:23,700 --> 00:04:25,800 I was missing just doing something with my hands 84 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,100 physically and I've grown up doing that with my dad. 85 00:04:29,100 --> 00:04:32,000 So I was used to doing that with my dad but when my dad left that 86 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,600 kind of just like I just cut that chunk out of my life 87 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:40,000 because I him and so I realized that I could do both. 88 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,600 But it took a long, it took time for me to realize I could be 89 00:04:43,300 --> 00:04:47,500 smart and academic and in my head and work with my hands like 90 00:04:47,500 --> 00:04:50,200 usually you think like blue collar workers, you know, we 91 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,900 always kind of we think somehow like, if you're the kitchen 92 00:04:52,900 --> 00:04:57,100 designer or you're working in a fancy space that you're more 93 00:04:57,100 --> 00:04:59,600 intellectual than the person that's a blue collar worker, 94 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,700 right? We often make that I don't know 95 00:05:02,700 --> 00:05:05,400 what you want to call it. Like it's such a false 96 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,200 assumption. It's a false assumption. 97 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:08,800 Yeah. And so it took me a long time to 98 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,500 realize I could be really smart and academic and good at school 99 00:05:12,500 --> 00:05:14,700 and know how to cut a two-by-four correctly. 100 00:05:14,700 --> 00:05:17,600 Like those two things are not exclusive of each other. 101 00:05:17,900 --> 00:05:20,900 And for me, like, I just kind of thought that they were, right. 102 00:05:20,900 --> 00:05:23,700 And I didn't think you could earn a very good living doing 103 00:05:23,700 --> 00:05:26,500 Blue Collar work either because I had watched my dad grew up 104 00:05:26,500 --> 00:05:29,600 doing it and he I mean he was successful but you know it was 105 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,300 still Feast or famine it was you know huge swings in highs and 106 00:05:33,300 --> 00:05:36,600 lows in the construction industry and so I didn't want to 107 00:05:36,700 --> 00:05:38,700 replicate that. So it took me all. 108 00:05:38,700 --> 00:05:41,800 It took me time to like get to the point where I realized I 109 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:43,700 could do it differently than my dad did it. 110 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,800 When did you first realize that you were falling in love with a 111 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,000 hammer? And a saw, oh man. 112 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,000 That's such a what a great question. 113 00:05:51,700 --> 00:05:53,600 I don't know. You guys are asked me that I 114 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,900 would say it was very young when I realize, I love working with 115 00:05:56,900 --> 00:06:00,600 my hands, my dad taught me on. I was very little Small. 116 00:06:00,900 --> 00:06:02,900 And he didn't think there was anything wrong with me being in 117 00:06:02,900 --> 00:06:05,200 a war in his workshop. And so he taught me how to make 118 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,400 candleholders was a very first thing I ever made from scratch. 119 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,100 And so, I would say it was probably, I mean, I don't know 120 00:06:11,100 --> 00:06:15,100 if I would teach a seven-year-old this different 121 00:06:15,100 --> 00:06:17,600 times different times, right? Is when we drove without 122 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:21,700 seatbelts to write and so I was using a chop saw to cut these 123 00:06:21,700 --> 00:06:24,100 little blocks of wood and then drill these little holes and 124 00:06:24,100 --> 00:06:28,100 sand them and stain them. And then I eventually sold them 125 00:06:28,100 --> 00:06:31,300 to a little Home Goods. Or locally this is before like 126 00:06:31,300 --> 00:06:33,500 Bed Bath & Beyond. So that was when I really fall 127 00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:36,300 in love with, I think doing something myself with my hands 128 00:06:36,700 --> 00:06:40,200 but when I really fell in love with a hammer and a saw was 129 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,100 probably when I was in the carpenters union and I got my 130 00:06:43,100 --> 00:06:48,600 first stiletto Hammer which was a titanium Hammer is else's and 131 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:52,600 it's very very light and sleek and I could frame all day with 132 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,400 that fucking Hammer. So when I could swing a hammer 133 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,300 next to a guy that looks like you like twice my not what 134 00:06:58,300 --> 00:07:00,800 you're not twice my height but you know, You're a lot taller 135 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:02,900 bigger guys. When I could work alongside a 136 00:07:02,900 --> 00:07:06,200 guy like that with mice little Hammer that's when I really 137 00:07:06,500 --> 00:07:10,100 realized the power of the tool itself and then just my chop saw 138 00:07:10,100 --> 00:07:12,800 just doing crown molding after crown molding after college. 139 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,800 I mean, I just love those two tools myself personally that's 140 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,200 awesome. That was early on, I guess that 141 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,300 was very early on when I started really annoying Union, your 142 00:07:21,300 --> 00:07:24,000 comments just now brings me to a question of the last load on 143 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:29,200 your own, but you know, how has it been working in a field in a 144 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,200 trade? It's historically, predominantly 145 00:07:32,500 --> 00:07:36,300 male dominated. Yes, as a woman, who's running a 146 00:07:36,300 --> 00:07:39,000 business? Who you know, construction is at 147 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,800 the heart of what you do. Well, I can give you a kind of 148 00:07:41,808 --> 00:07:44,200 the answer of when I first started when I was younger. 149 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,700 And now I'm older, I'm heavier and bigger, unfortunately, it's 150 00:07:47,700 --> 00:07:49,700 what happens. We get a little weight but I was 151 00:07:49,700 --> 00:07:52,200 110 pounds. When I started five foot three. 152 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,600 I looked and looked like a ten-year-old, literally, 153 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,600 honestly, I looked, I don't know how anybody ever hired me, but I 154 00:07:57,608 --> 00:07:59,700 just did not fit in with the construction. 155 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,600 The look of it at, all right? So when I was younger, it just 156 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,200 bravado, just absolute sheer bravado. 157 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:12,200 You just had to actually Walk The Talk abs, like you were so 158 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,000 confident. I mean, just had to Bluff your 159 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,100 way into absolutely every single situation. 160 00:08:16,500 --> 00:08:19,800 So, that's how I got on the job sites, but then, as once I was 161 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,300 on the job site, it would say this was before Instagram 162 00:08:23,300 --> 00:08:25,700 Facebook. Google a nothing like that. 163 00:08:25,700 --> 00:08:28,700 There was one way to search for answers or find it support, 164 00:08:28,700 --> 00:08:31,000 right? So I I was always the only girl 165 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,299 on the job site. And what I did was always find a 166 00:08:34,299 --> 00:08:37,799 guy that was Pro female, even if he didn't quite think I could do 167 00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:39,299 the job. He was, at least willing to give 168 00:08:39,299 --> 00:08:41,299 me a chance. So, that's what I did was, I 169 00:08:41,299 --> 00:08:45,200 found allies that were typically, which is interesting 170 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,600 is usually it was the guy that was the best guy on the job. 171 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,600 The most skilled person. If you showed an interest in 172 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,800 learning and you really did the work, he would teach you to the 173 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,400 ends of the Earth basically. So that's why it was kind of 174 00:08:56,408 --> 00:08:59,700 like I had this sort of had a lot of hope not. 175 00:08:59,900 --> 00:09:02,300 Oversight. I had a lot of people that were 176 00:09:02,300 --> 00:09:04,700 looking out for me guys, around account, for me, when I was 177 00:09:04,700 --> 00:09:08,400 very, you know, much younger and looked really young and then as 178 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:12,500 I got further into it, I realized there was only so far. 179 00:09:12,500 --> 00:09:14,600 I could go up that ladder in the Carpenters Union. 180 00:09:15,100 --> 00:09:17,700 I was going to always be passed over by somebody that looks like 181 00:09:17,700 --> 00:09:20,900 you that looked bigger and stronger no matter how good I 182 00:09:20,900 --> 00:09:23,300 was doing, right? And so that's what I just 183 00:09:23,300 --> 00:09:26,000 decided to start my own company. So that was my answer to that 184 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,400 was, I already knew how to start and make money with a business, 185 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,000 right? That's what I had done before. 186 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,900 I had more options than, maybe some of the other guys did. 187 00:09:34,100 --> 00:09:35,500 Right? Kind of had to stay there. 188 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,900 I was like, I know I can build a brand out of this once, I knew 189 00:09:38,900 --> 00:09:43,200 kitchens, I knew I could talk women in a kitchens like so I 190 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:44,700 didn't really have to deal with it. 191 00:09:44,700 --> 00:09:48,600 Then what I did have to do with was asshole, General Contractors 192 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:53,700 on residential remodels, I still had to deal with that and that, 193 00:09:53,700 --> 00:09:56,100 that never really went away. There was always some guy that 194 00:09:56,100 --> 00:09:57,900 was going to chart. You know, put his truck 195 00:09:57,900 --> 00:10:00,700 somewhere where you couldn't unload He was going to talk shit 196 00:10:00,700 --> 00:10:02,300 about you behind your back, right? 197 00:10:02,300 --> 00:10:04,800 He was going to talk shit about you to the homeowner, right? 198 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:06,500 He was going to try to undermine what you think. 199 00:10:06,500 --> 00:10:10,200 If you knew what you were doing and you just had to over, you 200 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,600 just had what's or when you just over you over meet people's 201 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,200 expectations you just you had to be 150% all the time. 202 00:10:18,300 --> 00:10:20,800 Right there was no 7080 percent, right? 203 00:10:21,100 --> 00:10:24,200 So we just talked handled it, which is we talked through it. 204 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:25,500 You know. It's a conversation when you 205 00:10:25,500 --> 00:10:27,200 first started. It's a real conversation of 206 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,600 talent recognizes Talent, right? Yeah. 207 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,700 Folks working, you talked about the guys who brought you in 208 00:10:32,700 --> 00:10:34,600 weren't the people that you thought on paper, who would be 209 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:36,500 the most receptive. But they were the ones I 210 00:10:36,508 --> 00:10:39,100 realized doing the work is doing the work. 211 00:10:39,500 --> 00:10:42,500 Yeah and of exactly, yeah, really good premise in there we 212 00:10:42,500 --> 00:10:46,000 talked about your journey and there's nothing that says our 213 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:51,300 Journeys have to be in ABCDEFG order, right? 214 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,300 Yeah, that all of those things that were part of your 215 00:10:53,300 --> 00:10:55,400 experience. You can see how they reinforce 216 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,800 and bring you back from the time with your dad learning to all 217 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:00,200 the time. Thinking about Building a 218 00:11:00,208 --> 00:11:02,700 business because what you just described on the construction 219 00:11:02,700 --> 00:11:06,600 site is delighting customers and putting in that hundred and 220 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:08,700 fifty percent and that's a recipe for Success. 221 00:11:09,300 --> 00:11:11,100 Yeah. Even without the hostility 222 00:11:11,100 --> 00:11:13,600 right? That's that's it that's a recipe 223 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,800 for Success. So you said something that was 224 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,300 pretty magical. You realize that once you fell 225 00:11:19,300 --> 00:11:22,400 in love with like kitchens as the expression of a carpentry, 226 00:11:22,500 --> 00:11:25,500 you knew how to sell kitchens. What was that moment of 227 00:11:25,500 --> 00:11:27,300 Revelation? Like like I could put all these 228 00:11:27,300 --> 00:11:30,700 things together and we've got something It was awesome. 229 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,200 I still remember that. I was working for a local 230 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,700 contractor who hired me as a younger Carpenter. 231 00:11:38,100 --> 00:11:40,400 They did kitchen remote. They did lots of her models, but 232 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:41,700 a lot of their stuff was remodels. 233 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,200 And so I was there for maybe even only 30 days. 234 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,000 And I was on two to three or four kitchen job sites. 235 00:11:48,300 --> 00:11:50,900 And I was just there cleaning up, sweeping putting in 236 00:11:50,900 --> 00:11:53,900 baseboards, I'm packing stuff. Nobody's paying attention to me 237 00:11:53,900 --> 00:11:55,700 at all right? But I was paying attention to 238 00:11:55,708 --> 00:11:58,100 what they were doing. They didn't realize, but I was 239 00:11:58,100 --> 00:12:00,800 definitely pay attention and Really watching what the woman 240 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,900 was doing. And so I was an again, this was 241 00:12:02,900 --> 00:12:05,400 25 years ago, right? So, I was watching them 242 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:06,500 completely. Ignore her. 243 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,200 I was watching them. Never ever asked her. 244 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,500 A single question, I was watching them only completely 245 00:12:11,500 --> 00:12:15,200 talk to the husband 100% and her try to interject and say 246 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,300 something or I could see her face, she wanted to say 247 00:12:17,300 --> 00:12:20,000 something, right? So I knew there was a problem 248 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,500 with that and then because I knew marketing, right? 249 00:12:22,500 --> 00:12:24,200 Look for a problem, look for station. 250 00:12:24,500 --> 00:12:26,900 And I knew there's a problem right there and so I just 251 00:12:26,900 --> 00:12:28,500 thought maybe it was just that one job. 252 00:12:28,500 --> 00:12:31,200 I just kept watching it happen. Over and over, and over again. 253 00:12:31,500 --> 00:12:33,600 And then when I would see them put the cabinets in, I was, I 254 00:12:33,608 --> 00:12:35,300 could recognize as some of that like to cook. 255 00:12:35,300 --> 00:12:37,600 I was like, well, that's not a very good layout, that's not 256 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,000 gonna work for this. So I kind of just was paying 257 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,400 attention to my intuition, but also would watch her. 258 00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:46,100 I mean, yes, of course, it looked prettier but it didn't 259 00:12:46,100 --> 00:12:48,700 function very well even though they spent all this money. 260 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,300 And so, I started to keep track a list of myself, like, what I 261 00:12:52,300 --> 00:12:55,200 would have done with that job, and this is before I really knew 262 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,900 very much about design. And so, that's how I came up 263 00:12:58,900 --> 00:13:02,000 with the idea for the Since was like, I knew I could have solved 264 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,800 that kitchen for her better, and that was the bright idea was 265 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:07,200 like, wow. I actually thought I was going 266 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,000 to learn something from them. That's why I went to that job 267 00:13:10,300 --> 00:13:13,200 and I realized really quickly with in under six months they 268 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,000 didn't have anything to teach me and I left and I started my own 269 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,200 company that was the like aha moment was almost within 30 days 270 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:24,000 of seeing them interact with women and that has never gone 271 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,800 away. I still watch contractors, go 272 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,600 into do B, kitchens and nothing has changed. 273 00:13:29,700 --> 00:13:32,300 I'm still shocked myself. I'm literally like shocked that 274 00:13:32,300 --> 00:13:35,700 I'm still talking about the same thing about kitchen design that 275 00:13:35,700 --> 00:13:39,100 I was from 25 years ago. Wow, it's interesting. 276 00:13:39,100 --> 00:13:42,400 I can say from our personal experience, we're looking at 277 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,800 doing renovations on our house. And when I first started 278 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,400 thinking about it, I separated the kitchen design work from 279 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:52,100 everything else, and my wife and I have had conversations about 280 00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:57,200 how the kitchen not only, is it intellectually, and emotionally, 281 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,200 and metaphorically the heart of the house. 282 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,200 Also, this Mass functional space. 283 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:06,300 Yeah and unit and the very first person we talked to was a woman 284 00:14:06,300 --> 00:14:09,200 who was leading design in the business and she walked into the 285 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,100 space first being she walked into the space that was never 286 00:14:12,100 --> 00:14:14,700 one to see how he lived and the very first question to your 287 00:14:14,700 --> 00:14:17,700 point that blew me away. She started asking questions 288 00:14:17,700 --> 00:14:21,300 about how we use the space and how tall was my wife. 289 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,700 No one had ever else come to us. They come in as we're talking 290 00:14:24,700 --> 00:14:26,900 before and they saw that I was tall. 291 00:14:27,300 --> 00:14:32,700 Yeah and they built your generic kind of kitchen space and having 292 00:14:32,700 --> 00:14:35,800 that conversation of you're using this in Partnership. 293 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:38,300 How are you using it? What is the work that's 294 00:14:38,300 --> 00:14:40,200 happening. And it completely changed over 295 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:44,200 while we exterior didn't change the functionality in the heart 296 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,300 of it all changed from giving us something to think about. 297 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,900 Yeah yeah, yeah but that's basically what So in that those 298 00:14:52,900 --> 00:14:55,000 first couple of years, when I started my own business, I 299 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,400 really spent a lot of time really coming up with my own 300 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,300 process, right? And so that's where I invented 301 00:15:00,300 --> 00:15:03,300 this design from DFI. I called the FAO designed from 302 00:15:03,300 --> 00:15:07,200 the inside out and so I teach women when we do the cabinet 303 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,900 layout that cabinet layout is where internalizing the 304 00:15:10,900 --> 00:15:13,400 functionality first, then we think about the pretty part on 305 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:15,600 the outside. Most people said do the Pretty 306 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,100 part first because that's what a woman sees rights. 307 00:15:18,100 --> 00:15:21,100 Like want a white kitchen. I want this but we start with 308 00:15:21,100 --> 00:15:22,500 the internal. Parts first. 309 00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:25,300 And then we do the outside last. So it's the opposite of what 310 00:15:25,300 --> 00:15:27,700 most people do and design. Now it sounds like you had a 311 00:15:27,700 --> 00:15:31,000 very good designer but most designers still don't even do 312 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,400 what I'm doing. Like yeah we do they don't do 313 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,400 what I'm doing the contractors, don't do it. 314 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,400 The builders don't do with Architects, don't do it. 315 00:15:37,700 --> 00:15:40,700 I watch it happen over and over and over again, where I'm they 316 00:15:40,700 --> 00:15:44,600 build an entire house and I'm like, that is the worst design 317 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,900 kitchen ever. And it's just took a couple of 318 00:15:46,900 --> 00:15:50,700 hours of conversation so I still see the same problems happening 319 00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:54,300 with looking at the outside. Part and not the internal the 320 00:15:54,300 --> 00:15:56,200 actual Cabinetry. Obviously I'm a cabinet maker. 321 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,900 So right talking about Capital time I wish I could say it was 322 00:15:59,900 --> 00:16:02,800 by some great plan that we just kind of tripped across from the 323 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,600 conversation. But what was very clear is we 324 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:11,800 saw as a client that our needs in sticking voices were 325 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,300 belittled in the process with other space that we have it. 326 00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:18,100 So I'm using strawberry language there but it was that kind of 327 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,600 you know spacing therefore how do we raise an amplifier? 328 00:16:21,900 --> 00:16:24,600 Races to speak in these design conversations. 329 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:30,600 Take my program look. See, how do you? 330 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,000 Okay, so if you're not working with me, how do I amplify your 331 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:34,800 voice? Well, for one, I mean, the first 332 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,800 thing we do is we always do a kitchen assessment, so we don't 333 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,300 design any cabinet layouts. We start with cabbage because 334 00:16:40,300 --> 00:16:42,600 it's like the heart of the kitchen basically, right? 335 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,500 Most expensive things, it dictates the flow, the layout, 336 00:16:45,500 --> 00:16:48,000 the countertops, everything. So most people don't spend 337 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,800 nearly enough time on the cabinet design the functionality 338 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,100 I would say One know how you use your kitchen, what food you. 339 00:16:54,100 --> 00:16:56,100 So that's what we do. We do a pantry at it, we do a 340 00:16:56,100 --> 00:16:59,000 kitchen edit. So if you know, if you do that 341 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:03,200 yourself and you know how you use your food, how you cook, how 342 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,700 your lifestyle is, and you share that at least with your designer 343 00:17:06,900 --> 00:17:09,300 and make sure that they incorporate, how you use your 344 00:17:09,300 --> 00:17:11,700 kitchen? That's like the big one of the 345 00:17:11,700 --> 00:17:14,300 biggest missing pieces because if you bring that up, they can't 346 00:17:14,300 --> 00:17:16,500 really ignore that. Like, for instance, you can 347 00:17:16,500 --> 00:17:18,099 always tell a good kitchen designer, because the first 348 00:17:18,099 --> 00:17:20,800 thing that he or she will do is walk in and open up every single 349 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,000 door in your kitchen. And if they don't do that they 350 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,800 don't know how you use your kitchen, right? 351 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,200 So you need to like look at the stuff and then analyze that and 352 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,000 then that's what dictates the new layout and I basically 353 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,300 preach seven types of kitchen cabinets and that's it. 354 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,600 So, my process is off of we do the assessment and then we use 355 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,600 the seven types of kitchen cabinets. 356 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,300 Those types of kitchen cabinets will functionally account for 357 00:17:44,300 --> 00:17:47,000 90% of how almost everybody uses their kitchen. 358 00:17:47,100 --> 00:17:49,300 Because there's a lot of similarities in how you eat, how 359 00:17:49,300 --> 00:17:53,300 I might bake more, but you might make more Pizza is but still, 360 00:17:53,300 --> 00:17:56,100 there's a lot of the same things that Americans keep in their 361 00:17:56,100 --> 00:17:58,900 kitchen. So most people don't even design 362 00:17:58,900 --> 00:18:03,200 around the 80 to 85 percent of stuff we have right in the 20% 363 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,200 is the specialty. So that's how I design a 364 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:06,800 kitchen. I figure out those seven 365 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,500 cabinets that cover 85% of everything you're doing, Ziploc 366 00:18:10,500 --> 00:18:14,400 bags, utensils that stuff and then the 20% is that specialty 367 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,300 thing? Do you do a lot of church 368 00:18:16,300 --> 00:18:18,300 functions? You have a bunch of people over 369 00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:22,200 to make macaroons, you know. 40 cookie sheets like like there's 370 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,700 some specialty stuff, but there's a lot of similarities. 371 00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:27,500 So I'd say assess your own kitchen, how you use your 372 00:18:27,500 --> 00:18:29,700 kitchen and share that with the person, that's helping you with 373 00:18:29,700 --> 00:18:33,600 the design, well, I did that, and I was completely ashamed. 374 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:36,600 I didn't want my God, are you serious? 375 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,400 It was five that no, I in a positive way, you open up, you 376 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,700 do it yourself and become the cell Cheney like, oh, 377 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,000 absolutely. I have a lot of various hand in 378 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,700 all these different classes, but you real, you realize how 379 00:18:48,700 --> 00:18:52,200 inefficient are in that space. So I won't talk a bit about Now, 380 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,000 you know, it was interesting to us process in as I kind of take 381 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,600 a step back, really the work that you've done, early in your 382 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:02,000 career, in the trades portion. And now in the entrepreneur of 383 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,400 stuff, there's all that element of strategy. 384 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:06,700 That's been a part of each faces in there. 385 00:19:06,900 --> 00:19:10,500 Talk to me about the importance for you of this strategic 386 00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:12,300 thinking. I really do anything. 387 00:19:12,300 --> 00:19:15,100 Unless I know why I'm doing it. So, I'm very you're right, I 388 00:19:15,108 --> 00:19:18,000 don't realize that most people aren't doing that, but I'm very 389 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,700 strategic about everything. I do, especially anything. 390 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:23,600 Tively. Now that I've been a creative 391 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,500 person since I was very little in a lot of different ways. 392 00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:30,300 I recognized that my creativity. You know. 393 00:19:30,300 --> 00:19:34,300 It's very easy to what's or not minimize your creativity but 394 00:19:34,700 --> 00:19:37,400 like put, you know, like extinguish it right. 395 00:19:37,900 --> 00:19:41,300 It's very easy for. I look at creativity is like 396 00:19:41,300 --> 00:19:44,400 little, very tender things that you're thinking of little ideas 397 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,800 you have. And they need a lot of care and 398 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,000 attention to bring them to fruition a lot more time than 399 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,100 people think to make like my And then took me like eight years to 400 00:19:53,100 --> 00:19:55,700 figure that out. Think about it, practice it 401 00:19:55,700 --> 00:19:58,300 fine-tune it fix problems, right? 402 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,600 Right. And so I now know the length of 403 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:02,800 time. It takes to bring real big ideas 404 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,400 to life. So I am more strategic about how 405 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,700 long it's going to take to take care of this idea. 406 00:20:08,700 --> 00:20:11,800 I have. And I think that strategic way 407 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,100 of looking at things is different than I you, I see a 408 00:20:14,100 --> 00:20:16,700 lot of people have really great ideas but they can't Implement 409 00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:19,200 them very well because they don't realize how much time it 410 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,000 takes. And they don't nurture that 411 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,500 little idea I really take care of it so you're right, I am 412 00:20:24,500 --> 00:20:29,300 strategic about that part of it taken care of the idea and I'm 413 00:20:29,300 --> 00:20:32,000 strategic about how big of an impact it has. 414 00:20:32,300 --> 00:20:36,700 So I rarely do things that don't have a larger impact because I 415 00:20:36,700 --> 00:20:40,000 find just for me personally, it doesn't have enough of a 416 00:20:40,008 --> 00:20:43,200 stickiness factor to make me interested in it long enough. 417 00:20:43,300 --> 00:20:45,600 Does that make sense? Like, it's not? 418 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,600 Yeah, I'm not interested in just like a one-off. 419 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:49,900 I'm interested in make a difference in the world, in a 420 00:20:49,908 --> 00:20:53,700 bigger way, but that's just me. Personally, So I am strategic 421 00:20:53,700 --> 00:20:57,200 about where I spend my time. What I develop, what I spend 422 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,300 time on and generally less. I don't really love it. 423 00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:01,600 I'm not going to spend time on it. 424 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,200 Let's talk a bit about that, the things you're passionate about 425 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,300 because it's really hit that intersection of craft practice 426 00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:12,300 in entrepreneurship. You've been really passionate 427 00:21:12,300 --> 00:21:14,800 about empowerment for women talk. 428 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,300 A bit about the work you've been doing and the conversations. 429 00:21:17,300 --> 00:21:18,500 You've been leading around empowerment. 430 00:21:18,500 --> 00:21:21,700 So I have a couple different brands that do kind of the same. 431 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,900 Same thing when I was getting into the union and went through, 432 00:21:24,900 --> 00:21:27,700 the carpenters union and on job sites and all that. 433 00:21:28,100 --> 00:21:30,200 And then I started my little budding Kitchen business. 434 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,100 That was like the kernel of noticing women's empowerment, 435 00:21:33,100 --> 00:21:35,700 right? And the lack of it was before 436 00:21:35,900 --> 00:21:38,200 all the stuff that's happening. Now with Instagram and podcasts, 437 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,200 like there was just nobody talking about women's 438 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,200 empowerment. So I that was the first start of 439 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,600 that, I think was that Colonel of like, you know, I had a lot 440 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,500 of the women that I would do their kitchens and they would be 441 00:21:49,500 --> 00:21:52,100 like God, I just love, did they just sit there and watch To me 442 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,800 they're just watch me for hours and hours and hours, right? 443 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,000 Used to like me like, could do something like you're making me 444 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,300 nervous like crap. I'm like, yes, it's hard. 445 00:22:01,300 --> 00:22:03,200 We're gonna be like, when someone staring at you and 446 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,000 they're like, we're just fascinated by it. 447 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:09,200 So it just it showed me that not every woman has had had that 448 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,500 upbringing that I had and when I thought back to, why was I so 449 00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:16,100 confident about this stuff? Like what I mean, where did 450 00:22:16,100 --> 00:22:17,500 that? I don't know where that came 451 00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:19,800 from. But it came from my dad just 452 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,000 honestly, never second-guessing. II couldn't do what he was doing 453 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,500 right next to him. So that gave me the colonel to 454 00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:27,800 think that maybe I could pass some of that on to my client. 455 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,000 So that's where this idea of teaching, power tools, two women 456 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,100 came. So, it was first brand was, what 457 00:22:34,100 --> 00:22:38,100 could I do that in a larger way? And so I started a little tiny 458 00:22:38,100 --> 00:22:41,300 small class where I taught a cordless drill and nine women 459 00:22:41,300 --> 00:22:45,500 showed up and they just floated out of the shop that I couldn't 460 00:22:45,500 --> 00:22:47,400 get them. I couldn't kick them out fast 461 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,900 enough and so then it was like 100 people in 200 women and And 462 00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:54,600 women and we eventually got to like twenty nine thousand women 463 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,000 have gone through that program. So that was a big eye-opener for 464 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,700 me that you could have a bigger dream and it just transform 465 00:23:01,700 --> 00:23:04,200 these women's lives and their daughters lives their kids 466 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,600 lives. So that was one brand and then 467 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,300 the kitchen thing took off because I realized, oh, they can 468 00:23:10,300 --> 00:23:11,700 do way more than just power tools. 469 00:23:11,700 --> 00:23:14,600 So then, I start teaching more around the kitchen design and 470 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,500 kitchen, remodeling, and kitchen cabinet assembly. 471 00:23:17,500 --> 00:23:20,600 And, and so, I think, I think I've answered the question, I'm 472 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:21,900 not 100% sure. Sure. 473 00:23:21,900 --> 00:23:25,300 But I mean, this idea of like teaching women that have never 474 00:23:25,300 --> 00:23:26,500 done something fizzy, I don't know. 475 00:23:26,500 --> 00:23:29,100 There's something that happens when a woman does something 476 00:23:29,100 --> 00:23:31,000 physical. I don't, I've tried to figure it 477 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,300 out, but if you've never done something physical in your life 478 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,300 outside of ride, a bike or swim or go camping or something, but 479 00:23:38,300 --> 00:23:40,600 somebody teaches you, how to use a cordless drill and put 480 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,300 something together or chop saw and put up crown molding. 481 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,000 There is just nothing like it in life for women. 482 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,000 It is a singular experience probably like motherhood, right? 483 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:53,300 Having a child, once it happens. Is just the person has changed, 484 00:23:53,300 --> 00:23:57,500 they have so much confidence. So I've watched that happen over 485 00:23:57,500 --> 00:24:00,000 and over and over again, but I watched them teach other people. 486 00:24:00,300 --> 00:24:04,200 I'm in love with that feeling of watching them, transform right? 487 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,900 In such a short amount of time. So, I think that's probably, 488 00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:09,500 that's got to be what it is. Is, it's such, it's like a 489 00:24:09,500 --> 00:24:11,800 little. It's addictive to watch that 490 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,700 transformation happen. So I think now you understand a 491 00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:16,000 bit more. Why people are watching? 492 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,500 Yeah, probably, I mean, it still feels like I do the same thing 493 00:24:20,500 --> 00:24:23,500 every day with a kitchen. But it's, if it's the first time 494 00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:25,800 you've ever seen it, like, I'm trying to think of something 495 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,800 that was that exciting to me, that, that doesn't scare me 496 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,000 like, I don't like roller coasters. 497 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,200 So, but I'm trying to think of something where I like pushing 498 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,300 us to fear, maybe learning to ride a motorcycle for the first 499 00:24:35,300 --> 00:24:38,300 time and then you get good on a motorcycle, right? 500 00:24:38,300 --> 00:24:41,700 Like that, just Elation that comes from it, I would imagine. 501 00:24:41,700 --> 00:24:43,700 That's what they're feeling. I'm going to ask you this 502 00:24:43,700 --> 00:24:45,300 question and I think I know the answer. 503 00:24:45,900 --> 00:24:51,600 What's been your favorite project for you like personal? 504 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,300 Project. Yeah, your favorite project for 505 00:24:55,300 --> 00:24:57,200 you. Okay. 506 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,600 Give me some little bit of of a constraint maybe that's like 507 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,500 I've had so many amazing projects. 508 00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:06,500 Like I've lived all of them like my own house. 509 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,700 You mean like with a client? It can be your own house. 510 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,000 It can be where you're the client let's frame it back. 511 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,300 Well there's three things. I put all new hardwood floors 512 00:25:16,300 --> 00:25:19,100 and my downstairs my entire downstairs Force but I did a 513 00:25:19,108 --> 00:25:23,400 beautiful herringbone pattern that took me Me months to do and 514 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,400 I still love that is so fucking pretty. 515 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,100 When I walk downstairs, I've put my walk Barefoot all the time, 516 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,000 so I'd say my it it's dark wood. I think you said that you're 517 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,200 putting a dark wood. It's a very dark like chocolate 518 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,400 color and it's beautiful. And so I was going to hire 519 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:38,800 someone just to do it faster, right? 520 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,700 But I mean I knew how to do it and it took forever, but I love 521 00:25:42,700 --> 00:25:44,500 that. So that was like a beautiful 522 00:25:44,500 --> 00:25:47,300 project that turned out. We lovely my own kitchen that I 523 00:25:47,300 --> 00:25:49,700 remodel every model obviously many of my own kitchens but my 524 00:25:49,700 --> 00:25:52,200 last remodel I didn't take him. Notes. 525 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,100 And it was just a really beautiful transformation. 526 00:25:55,100 --> 00:25:57,200 It was probably the simplest one I'd ever done. 527 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,100 We have very large, tall ceilings like 14-foot, tall 528 00:26:00,100 --> 00:26:02,400 ceilings. So the cabinets were like 12 529 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,100 feet tall and it's just it's just beautiful. 530 00:26:05,100 --> 00:26:08,300 I love I cook every single day so I love the design. 531 00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:11,400 I did in my own kitchen and I followed that same same process, 532 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,500 the same seven cabinets. And then my third one, I think I 533 00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:17,200 talked about before I started was I put in these beautiful 534 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,500 10-foot black Iron French doors in the front of my house. 535 00:26:20,500 --> 00:26:23,900 I took out a stationary Window and put in these huge, you know, 536 00:26:24,100 --> 00:26:26,200 eight feet wide by 10 feet tall Pete. 537 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,900 They're called pinkies is the brand and I just absolutely love 538 00:26:29,900 --> 00:26:31,700 her. She is beautiful. 539 00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:34,900 She is drama. She's like the Met of doors. 540 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,500 So that was by far like my probably, my hardest most 541 00:26:38,500 --> 00:26:41,400 difficult project for me physically that was a hard 542 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,700 project but so satisfying, it's awesome. 543 00:26:44,700 --> 00:26:47,100 Here I'm gonna ask you that moment of difficulties. 544 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,600 What if you think about it? What's been the hardest part of 545 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,500 your business? The last Five years. 546 00:26:52,500 --> 00:26:54,900 Mmm. That's the thing that challenge 547 00:26:54,900 --> 00:26:57,500 you the most and you look back over it now and realize it was 548 00:26:57,500 --> 00:26:59,700 just that a challenge but you've overcome. 549 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,200 Yeah, I would say probably two of them. 550 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:07,300 One was going from a mick male-female shop or having guys 551 00:27:07,300 --> 00:27:11,200 work in the shop to all-female. So that was a dream of mine. 552 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,800 That was too hard to do. Talk a bit about that. 553 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,400 When did that we probably know. How are you able to make that 554 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,200 transition, 15, 20, or, yeah. So that was probably about eight 555 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,500 or so years in and I had, I was basically just hiring on skills. 556 00:27:23,500 --> 00:27:26,700 The guy would come in? I did my usual test to see how 557 00:27:26,700 --> 00:27:29,200 fast he could walk because I'm short. 558 00:27:29,300 --> 00:27:31,100 And if he couldn't keep up with me, I would always. 559 00:27:31,100 --> 00:27:33,500 This is my test always. We beat it low so front of lows 560 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,900 6 a.m. in the morning, right? Because if they can't be there 561 00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:38,200 at 6:00 or not going to make it doing Kappa tree because we're 562 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,100 on the job by 7. So I jump out of my truck and 563 00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:43,000 I'd say, hey off, come on, let's go right. 564 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,500 I just start I just take off, we start talking and I would just 565 00:27:45,500 --> 00:27:48,000 walk from the front of the store to the back of the Lumberyard, 566 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,400 right? Straight through lows and I 567 00:27:49,408 --> 00:27:52,100 would see if he could keep up with me and if he They could not 568 00:27:52,100 --> 00:27:54,900 keep up with me, just walking my normal walk wasn't going to 569 00:27:54,908 --> 00:27:57,400 work. So I did that a few times. 570 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,200 And we hire for skill obviously. And then the guys, I may hate to 571 00:28:01,208 --> 00:28:03,200 say this because I love men to my husband's man. 572 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,200 Right, obviously, I love man, but they just couldn't keep up 573 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,800 with the pace to be honest. It's so I was like, you know, 574 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,500 I'm just going to train women that have no skills. 575 00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:15,900 I'm going to train them in my process from start to finish. 576 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,900 So that took about three years to get to transition from hiring 577 00:28:19,900 --> 00:28:23,200 people that had skills. But I wanted them to work a 578 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,200 certain way, right? And work with women a certain 579 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:31,200 way and so that was a big change and it I lost a lot of money. 580 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,100 Just like, trying and trying and trying, but I did eventually get 581 00:28:34,100 --> 00:28:37,500 to where we had 14 women working in the shop and it just hums 582 00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:40,200 like just hums like, boss, just beautiful. 583 00:28:40,500 --> 00:28:43,100 Do you think this sets your organization apart from others 584 00:28:43,100 --> 00:28:45,500 in the field? Oh yeah, it made selling so 585 00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:47,300 easy. I mean, the women I didn't have 586 00:28:47,300 --> 00:28:49,200 to tell them to sweep up. I don't have to tell them to be 587 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,000 careful packaging. I have to tell them to Triple 588 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,400 wrap stuff. I didn't have to tell them to 589 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:54,800 look for screws under the blankets. 590 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,000 Like, there's so many things about women that are so good in 591 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,300 construction, that just come naturally to them. 592 00:29:01,100 --> 00:29:03,300 And that's not saying I have not worked with some amazing men, 593 00:29:03,300 --> 00:29:06,300 right? I have but I can just take a 594 00:29:06,300 --> 00:29:08,700 young woman that just wants to please and do well. 595 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,100 And she's going to listen to every instruction. 596 00:29:11,100 --> 00:29:13,900 I give her if I tell her to not turn that song until I get back, 597 00:29:13,900 --> 00:29:17,100 she's not going to do it right? If I tell her to cut a certain 598 00:29:17,100 --> 00:29:19,900 way, she's gonna cut it. Exactly how I tell her to do it, 599 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,300 right? She's not going to argue with 600 00:29:21,300 --> 00:29:22,700 me. She's not going to try to show 601 00:29:22,700 --> 00:29:24,000 me, she knows how to do it better. 602 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,600 It enabled me to have basically very beginner level people but I 603 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,100 could operate in a very safe way because I trusted them because 604 00:29:31,100 --> 00:29:32,600 they were scared of getting hurt. 605 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,800 Men are scared of getting hurt. They'll just try anything. 606 00:29:36,100 --> 00:29:38,300 Okay. They'll try anything and then 607 00:29:38,300 --> 00:29:41,000 they get hurt right? Most a lot of men in 608 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,300 construction, I should say. So that. 609 00:29:43,300 --> 00:29:46,800 Yeah that took that was really a huge competitive Advantage. 610 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,400 For me, selling me, just being a kitchen maker. 611 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,500 I mean, I got most jobs that I went out for And then having an 612 00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:55,100 entire crew of women was just a dream. 613 00:29:55,100 --> 00:29:58,800 I didn't, I slept like a baby. I didn't have to worry about 614 00:29:58,900 --> 00:30:02,300 whether they lock the door cleaned up at the shop or you 615 00:30:02,300 --> 00:30:05,400 know, just for smoking weed in there after I left, like I don't 616 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,700 have to worry about anything like that. 617 00:30:08,500 --> 00:30:12,700 So fo side lack of worry. What's next? 618 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,700 What's next for you? And this is from, I mean what 619 00:30:15,700 --> 00:30:19,400 I'm working on now is the time I retired officially three years 620 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,900 ago from physically doing The jobs we shut down the shop, and 621 00:30:23,900 --> 00:30:26,100 I moved my whole operation online. 622 00:30:26,100 --> 00:30:28,300 So my whole business now is virtual, okay? 623 00:30:28,500 --> 00:30:31,200 And so I found all those women, lovely women jobs. 624 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,800 Some of them started their own shops, you know, that was like a 625 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,800 full. I was going to ask you about 626 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,000 that about the kind of trajectory because you talk so 627 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:39,500 much about training. Yeah. 628 00:30:39,500 --> 00:30:43,500 And a big part of training is skills mentorship that then 629 00:30:43,500 --> 00:30:46,800 encouraging the other day that none of us really none of us 630 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,200 want to shut the shop down but it was impossible for me. 631 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,300 I did try for about a year to do both. 632 00:30:51,700 --> 00:30:54,100 By then, there was Facebook, Instagram, Facebook ads. 633 00:30:54,100 --> 00:30:56,200 I mean, there were so many things, I had learned that I 634 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,300 just couldn't do both, I need it to be in an office planning, the 635 00:30:59,300 --> 00:31:01,900 marketing and doing a lot of things I couldn't do both and be 636 00:31:01,900 --> 00:31:04,200 on a job site, physically. I mean, we did 30 kitchens a 637 00:31:04,208 --> 00:31:06,900 month. So that gives you an idea of how 638 00:31:06,900 --> 00:31:11,300 much volume we did. We did a lot of kitchens, right? 639 00:31:11,300 --> 00:31:14,200 And and you're not doing a kitchen in the afternoon, right? 640 00:31:14,500 --> 00:31:16,600 Yeah, we talked in. Yeah, we had a week when you 641 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,700 have 40 of them in that really know what they're doing, almost 642 00:31:18,700 --> 00:31:20,500 every woman can install by herself. 643 00:31:20,700 --> 00:31:22,800 So we had two women. In install, a whole kitchen fire 644 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,100 themselves. So I mean yeah, we were we were 645 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,200 flailing. We were at the top peak of our 646 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,800 production, so to go from that to, you know, lower. 647 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,600 So I scaled down until it was eventually just three of us and 648 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,500 then that last year I tried to do both and it just, it just 649 00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:38,900 wasn't going to work. I tried to have one of the 650 00:31:38,900 --> 00:31:41,700 girls, take over the shop. She just didn't have the 651 00:31:41,700 --> 00:31:44,500 marketing that I did. And so, I just, I found some of 652 00:31:44,500 --> 00:31:47,200 them started their own small shops, and some of them got 653 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,200 great, you know, transferred them, and they got great job. 654 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,500 So they're all doing, they're all doing very well in most 655 00:31:51,700 --> 00:31:53,800 Women are mothers is the other thing that people don't think 656 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,400 moms pregnant, women can work. Like let me tell you. 657 00:31:57,100 --> 00:31:59,500 Women are incredible. Like they did stuff that even I 658 00:31:59,500 --> 00:32:01,600 wouldn't do, right? They had two and three children. 659 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,100 They worked in that shop. They loved it. 660 00:32:04,100 --> 00:32:07,700 They absolutely loved it that I agree for like easily a year or 661 00:32:07,700 --> 00:32:09,900 two. It was, I mean, I hated shutting 662 00:32:09,900 --> 00:32:12,400 it down. I absolutely loved my shop, but 663 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,900 I wanted to make this bigger difference in the world and I 664 00:32:14,900 --> 00:32:17,600 wanted to be National and I couldn't really do that that 665 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,700 way. So I partnered with a fellow 666 00:32:19,700 --> 00:32:22,500 contractor that we built cabeceo other for many years. 667 00:32:22,500 --> 00:32:25,300 And so he basically builds all the cabinets that I need now in 668 00:32:25,300 --> 00:32:28,800 a very specific way. And then I moved online. 669 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,900 And so now, you know, I'm hoping to do roughly about 20,000 670 00:32:32,900 --> 00:32:36,500 kitchens across the country. So it's that's my next. 671 00:32:36,500 --> 00:32:38,400 Wow, that's what I'm working on. That's what I'm doing. 672 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,900 So we do thousands right now and the goal is to do about 20,000 a 673 00:32:41,908 --> 00:32:43,400 year. There's about 10 million 674 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,200 remodels a year in kitchens, so it's still, I just want a little 675 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,900 piece of that, this little piece of that asset, this little piece 676 00:32:48,900 --> 00:32:49,900 of ya. See. 677 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:54,000 So today what are the Project City still the still getting 678 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,200 Goosebumps by the projects that you was that. 679 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:57,400 You were saying, well, that door. 680 00:32:58,700 --> 00:33:01,600 I mean let me tell you that our into before well we're putting 681 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,700 the whole thing together. That was sketchy, that was that 682 00:33:04,700 --> 00:33:08,200 was that was nerve-racking for me, which was good. 683 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,100 I haven't been scared on a job for a long time. 684 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,200 What so you said like in a good way, what makes you excited? 685 00:33:13,900 --> 00:33:17,200 Yeah, well I would say. So one piece of my program that 686 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,300 I was not expecting to have happen, which I have fallen in 687 00:33:20,308 --> 00:33:23,400 love with which I did not Not think I would even like doing 688 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,400 was some of the women that come in for design. 689 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,800 We help them do their design and we help them find contractors in 690 00:33:28,808 --> 00:33:32,000 their area and cabinets, all that, and some women by cabinets 691 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,100 through us and we ship them. We custom make them here and 692 00:33:34,100 --> 00:33:35,300 ship them to them. Right? 693 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,100 Help them install it, teach them how to install it. 694 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,300 Now, some of those women actually paid to fly me out to 695 00:33:41,308 --> 00:33:42,800 them, to install, their kitchens. 696 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:48,900 Now that I never saw coming that, I did a few times thinking 697 00:33:48,900 --> 00:33:52,200 this can't possibly work, right? Like, I don't Don't even know if 698 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:56,000 I can pull this off, right? And I did and so that is become 699 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,100 like my new favorite thing of my program. 700 00:33:58,100 --> 00:34:02,200 I don't have to do it but basically we if she wants to, we 701 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,000 build her cat. We manufacture the cabinet's 702 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,500 here custom. They get shipped to where I'm 703 00:34:06,500 --> 00:34:10,699 going to her house. I fly there with my tools, I 704 00:34:10,699 --> 00:34:12,800 have a box of mobile-ready tools. 705 00:34:13,199 --> 00:34:16,699 I fly there and assemble the custom-made cabinets. 706 00:34:16,699 --> 00:34:19,500 I made in California. And I, and she, and I, I teach 707 00:34:19,500 --> 00:34:21,400 her and her old family power tools. 708 00:34:21,699 --> 00:34:23,900 And in like three or four days, we put their whole Kitchen in. 709 00:34:24,300 --> 00:34:28,100 So it's like a mix of my carpentry school because I'm 710 00:34:28,100 --> 00:34:31,400 teaching their grandchildren, their neighbors, anybody that 711 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,000 was there, I'll teach a chop saw, a cordless drill, jig saw 712 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,800 and a nail gun right in three or four days. 713 00:34:36,100 --> 00:34:38,800 So, they learn their power tools, they learn how to work 714 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,400 together. The woman just feels so special 715 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,900 because like most of them women that come into my program, are 716 00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:48,300 there the typical like Mom that gives everything to everybody 717 00:34:48,300 --> 00:34:49,300 else? Right? 718 00:34:49,500 --> 00:34:52,100 And she rarely gets something that's just So for her. 719 00:34:52,100 --> 00:34:55,500 So this kitchen is her thing. So this is the whole family 720 00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:59,400 doing it for her with her and then we put it in and we have 721 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,900 pizza and beer and sit back and just like, so that's my favorite 722 00:35:02,900 --> 00:35:04,300 thing. Now is I'm like a mobile 723 00:35:04,300 --> 00:35:07,800 traveling Carpenter Master people, and it's fun. 724 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,700 So I just was, I was just in Atlanta, Georgia, and to this 725 00:35:10,700 --> 00:35:13,700 lovely family. I was in South Carolina. 726 00:35:13,700 --> 00:35:16,000 I've been to Florida. I've been to Idaho, twice. 727 00:35:16,300 --> 00:35:19,100 I've been to Seattle. I've been to Los Angeles. 728 00:35:19,100 --> 00:35:20,900 I've another job coming up in Los Angeles. 729 00:35:20,900 --> 00:35:25,000 Probably about In November. So that's just like a fun weird 730 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,200 thing that I didn't think was even going to work. 731 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:28,800 I didn't think I could do it that quickly. 732 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,300 So, so it's fun. I was gonna ask this question 733 00:35:31,300 --> 00:35:34,300 and I probably know the answer already but I just want to ask 734 00:35:34,300 --> 00:35:37,100 anyway. Did you ever imagine this when 735 00:35:37,100 --> 00:35:40,800 you were Knee Deep digging to? No, no, absolutely not. 736 00:35:40,900 --> 00:35:44,100 No, I knew I would do something creative, but I didn't think, 737 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,200 you know, this is pretty Facebook and Instagram. 738 00:35:46,500 --> 00:35:50,000 Okay? So I think you could build II, 739 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:51,900 didn't think? I mean without the to Right now 740 00:35:51,900 --> 00:35:55,300 have like these modern digital tools online tools in this would 741 00:35:55,300 --> 00:35:56,900 have been possible. I mean, who would? 742 00:35:57,100 --> 00:35:58,300 Yeah, I would have never imagined. 743 00:35:58,300 --> 00:36:01,300 I'd be installing a kitchen for a woman in Georgia off of the 744 00:36:01,300 --> 00:36:04,400 plane, right. It's like so, it just goes to 745 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,200 show you just never really know what, you know. 746 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,700 I just kind of kept falling step by step each year kept thinking 747 00:36:09,700 --> 00:36:13,100 a little bigger, a little bigger and you just never know what you 748 00:36:13,108 --> 00:36:16,200 can build when you just keep at it for a while, right? 749 00:36:16,300 --> 00:36:19,600 And do it for the right reasons, like it's still the same for me 750 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,600 that woman in Georgia. You know, who Who moved into her 751 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,900 house 19 years ago and her husband would let her do her 752 00:36:24,900 --> 00:36:28,000 kitchen and she just was the matriarch of the entire family 753 00:36:28,500 --> 00:36:31,500 and she just kind of defied him a little bit and join my program 754 00:36:31,500 --> 00:36:34,800 was like nope I'm doing this kitchen finally and then we got 755 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,200 him on board and the whole family. 756 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,200 Just like celebrated her that transformation is really what 757 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,200 it's about. I know it's about the kitchens 758 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,900 but for me it's about showing women. 759 00:36:43,900 --> 00:36:47,200 How much value they have, how much they can do more things 760 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,500 than they thought they could and just appreciating them. 761 00:36:49,500 --> 00:36:52,700 So that's like the kitchen. Let's Do that basically. 762 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,700 And as you said designed, the comes a powerful not only 763 00:36:58,700 --> 00:37:02,400 metaphor but a powerful tool to its promise and agency and 764 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,900 transformational the kitchen is just the whatever we call it, 765 00:37:06,900 --> 00:37:11,700 the container the impetus but it's really it's the 766 00:37:11,700 --> 00:37:14,000 transformation. I see her go through in that 767 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:15,700 kitchen remodeling, process with me. 768 00:37:16,300 --> 00:37:20,700 Do you have an alumni group now of folks who have, who have had 769 00:37:20,700 --> 00:37:23,400 you help to build these gifts? I do, of course. 770 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,100 Yeah. We We have lots of those women. 771 00:37:25,100 --> 00:37:27,000 Some of those women have become kitchen coaches. 772 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,300 So this is the other part of the program, I forgot to mention, 773 00:37:29,300 --> 00:37:31,100 which was okay. Yeah, shit, Sherlock. 774 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,300 I didn't imagine that piece of it either. 775 00:37:33,700 --> 00:37:35,800 And so what ended up happening with some of the women that went 776 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,700 through the program, they like fell in love with the process so 777 00:37:38,700 --> 00:37:41,700 much that they said. Would you ever consider hiring 778 00:37:41,700 --> 00:37:44,200 me to help with the other students in the group, right? 779 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,500 And so then that's where this idea of kitchen coaches came. 780 00:37:46,500 --> 00:37:49,700 So I have a certification program where if you're a woman 781 00:37:49,700 --> 00:37:51,400 you can become a certified kitchen coach. 782 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,900 So you learn my deify a process I put you through the paces. 783 00:37:55,900 --> 00:37:59,100 I teach you how to design that kitchen, the way that I do it 784 00:37:59,100 --> 00:38:03,000 and your kind of certified to work in your own local 785 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,000 community, the way that I do it. So yeah, that's another like 786 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,700 empowering thing that I feel which is women and money which 787 00:38:08,700 --> 00:38:11,500 we have really talked about. But a big part of my program is 788 00:38:11,500 --> 00:38:13,000 teaching women how to make money. 789 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:17,600 Like, when you have money, you have choices.. 790 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,500 Women need more money. You have better choices. 791 00:38:19,500 --> 00:38:22,800 So, I that's kind of been a running theme to like, that's 792 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,600 why I had all those women in the Chop, those women were working 793 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,800 at Taco Bell and instead they made a hundred thousand dollars 794 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,500 a year, so you can bet that changed her life, her children's 795 00:38:32,500 --> 00:38:33,900 life. So I do the same thing. 796 00:38:33,900 --> 00:38:37,900 I'm always trying to find ways to help women be more empowered 797 00:38:37,900 --> 00:38:40,800 financially, as well as she think about that. 798 00:38:40,900 --> 00:38:44,400 I often ask this question, take, what advice would you have? 799 00:38:44,900 --> 00:38:47,500 What advice would you have to a young woman? 800 00:38:47,500 --> 00:38:49,700 Who's thinking about starting a business and you're at a space 801 00:38:49,700 --> 00:38:53,600 where you were successful in your working, but it wasn't the 802 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:54,700 right. Right work, right? 803 00:38:54,700 --> 00:38:57,200 I was caught by that at the beginning because I know I felt 804 00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,200 that in my entire life. You have phases where you're 805 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,800 really good at doing something but it's not good for you or 806 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,300 it's not the thing you want to do, but everyone knows you're 807 00:39:05,300 --> 00:39:07,800 really good at it. So Camille gets the call for the 808 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:09,900 absolutely horrible work. Yeah. 809 00:39:10,100 --> 00:39:12,600 So the question is, like, what would my advice be to a young 810 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,700 woman or young gentleman that wants to start a small business 811 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,400 in design, specifically, or just kind of an entrepreneurial 812 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,100 journey and entrepreneurial Journey, you know, design, maybe 813 00:39:22,100 --> 00:39:26,400 one, but that moment of Being from doing a job to creatively 814 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,600 eating your own Enterprise. It's so powerful. 815 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,500 There's nothing better in life than doing that to be honest I 816 00:39:31,500 --> 00:39:33,500 would say well for me I've always done. 817 00:39:33,500 --> 00:39:34,700 This is the marketing background. 818 00:39:34,700 --> 00:39:37,400 I've always just look for a problem and thought of the 819 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:38,800 solution. It's not. 820 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:40,900 I mean, yes, you can find something you love to let's just 821 00:39:40,900 --> 00:39:42,200 say it was Furniture Design, right? 822 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,300 I see a lot of people go into building furniture. 823 00:39:44,500 --> 00:39:48,000 They don't make any money because that's a hobby and a 824 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,300 craft, which is different than making a living, a good living, 825 00:39:51,300 --> 00:39:54,500 right? So I would say, would ask that 826 00:39:54,500 --> 00:39:58,400 young person to really try to find them a mixture of blend. 827 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,300 A sweet spot of what something that they're passionate about 828 00:40:01,300 --> 00:40:03,100 that. They like to do, which could be 829 00:40:03,100 --> 00:40:06,700 just a hobby, which is great to have these are fantastic, or is 830 00:40:06,700 --> 00:40:09,100 there a way you could solve a problem around that thing? 831 00:40:09,100 --> 00:40:12,300 So if it's you like a certain type of furniture you want to 832 00:40:12,300 --> 00:40:15,000 make handcrafted chairs. Well, what's a problem around? 833 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,600 That type of furniture, is it? Local designers? 834 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:21,200 They can't find that chair. Is it restaurants that need that 835 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,700 style of chair? Is it homeowners that? 836 00:40:24,300 --> 00:40:27,100 Like that's a business, the business has to solve a problem 837 00:40:27,300 --> 00:40:30,300 period and the more you can do that, the more money, you make 838 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,900 deeper the problem, the bigger, the solution, the more money you 839 00:40:32,900 --> 00:40:34,900 can make. So trying to look for those 840 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,100 people say holes in the market, but if you're new, you don't 841 00:40:38,100 --> 00:40:41,500 really know what that means. It means is there a solution and 842 00:40:41,500 --> 00:40:44,300 I saw my problem was that there's lots of people were 843 00:40:44,300 --> 00:40:46,800 modern kitchens, but nobody was talking to the woman of the 844 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,100 house and nobody was helping teach her what real 845 00:40:50,100 --> 00:40:52,900 functionality is. So that was the solution that I 846 00:40:52,900 --> 00:40:55,400 was doing there. Lots of people do kitchens, but 847 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,900 no one's doing them that way. Right now, that would be my 848 00:40:58,900 --> 00:41:02,300 suggestion and find a mentor, find a mentor, find someone that 849 00:41:02,500 --> 00:41:04,700 supports your ideas do apprenticeships. 850 00:41:04,700 --> 00:41:07,200 Do I did a lot of free stuff, right. 851 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,500 Don't be afraid to do free stuff to work around people that are 852 00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:12,100 talented. You got to put in that time up 853 00:41:12,100 --> 00:41:15,000 front and then if you love it, you'll find a way to get a job 854 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,100 in it or start something small fines clients. 855 00:41:18,100 --> 00:41:20,600 First, that's another one I always had clients before I did 856 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,000 anything. It's like I had clients before. 857 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,200 I quit that job. This has been incredible talking 858 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,500 about your journey. I'm going to close with where we 859 00:41:28,500 --> 00:41:32,200 began, we started talking about home and that home has been a 860 00:41:32,208 --> 00:41:36,300 metaphor for all this as a place of empowerment and a place of 861 00:41:36,300 --> 00:41:40,900 safety and a place to launch. So we started talking about you 862 00:41:40,900 --> 00:41:43,600 going home first. And now, the all of your work is 863 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:45,700 about building from these spaces. 864 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:50,000 What are your final thoughts on the power of home? 865 00:41:50,300 --> 00:41:53,000 Well, I think especially in the last couple years, right? 866 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,400 We've really seen The power of connection, and intimacy and 867 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,600 vulnerability. And the pandemic, just stripped, 868 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:02,400 everybody raw basically, right of income, and dogs and 869 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,700 connections. So, you know, for me, I think 870 00:42:04,700 --> 00:42:08,300 the house the home has been is even more powerful than I think, 871 00:42:08,300 --> 00:42:11,400 the more, you know, design is fantastic, right? 872 00:42:11,500 --> 00:42:14,700 Creativity is fantastic, technology is fantastic, but I 873 00:42:14,708 --> 00:42:17,200 do feel that it pulls us more and more apart, right? 874 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,600 It keeps it creates separation very easily. 875 00:42:19,900 --> 00:42:22,600 So you have to be really, really intentional about creating those 876 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:26,600 connections. And a house is such a simple way 877 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,600 to do that. You know, a kitchen is truly the 878 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,000 heart of the house. And I say, the heart of the 879 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,700 kitchen is the heart of the woman actually typically. 880 00:42:33,900 --> 00:42:37,900 And so, I just love working in an industry where you're helping 881 00:42:37,900 --> 00:42:40,900 people connect and build deeper relationships with their 882 00:42:40,900 --> 00:42:43,900 children and pasta van to the next Legacy. 883 00:42:43,900 --> 00:42:45,600 So that's kind of that. I mean, that's what it brings up 884 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:47,500 for me. It's how important that is. 885 00:42:47,900 --> 00:42:51,400 I can't think of a better way to conclude our conversation today 886 00:42:51,500 --> 00:42:53,700 with Camille. Thank you for just being 887 00:42:53,900 --> 00:43:00,000 Incredible example, entrepreneur Carpenter door lover and 888 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,500 inspiring empowering as other words that I think about 889 00:43:03,500 --> 00:43:07,500 whenever we talk so thank you for joining us today for this 890 00:43:07,500 --> 00:43:11,100 episode of design adjacent. Thank you Camille and all the 891 00:43:11,100 --> 00:43:14,500 work that you do delightful. Thank you all for joining us and 892 00:43:14,500 --> 00:43:18,100 we invite you to tune in. For designer Jason we look at 893 00:43:18,100 --> 00:43:22,300 other connections to InDesign in our world today and tomorrow I'm 894 00:43:22,300 --> 00:43:25,700 your host Ben Johnson. I thank you show notes for this 895 00:43:25,700 --> 00:43:28,400 episode will be available on AIG a.org. 896 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,900 Please subscribe to our show on anchor Apple, podcasts Google 897 00:43:32,900 --> 00:43:36,200 play Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. 898 00:43:36,900 --> 00:43:40,200 Aiga is designed adjacent podcasts and its contents. 899 00:43:40,300 --> 00:43:44,300 Are the copyright of aiga the professional association for 900 00:43:44,300 --> 00:43:49,100 design All Rights Reserved, any redistribution or reproduction 901 00:43:49,100 --> 00:43:52,600 of part or all of the contents in any form is prohibited 902 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,300 without a i Jesus. Express written permission. 903 00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,400 My name is Li Shan Wang until next time.