1 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:05,600 It might sound as a curse but I would say the start seeing data 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:07,700 everywhere. So the started counting and 3 00:00:07,700 --> 00:00:10,800 observing and collecting and still pretty much adopting the 4 00:00:10,808 --> 00:00:15,100 data mentality and observing things everything like from your 5 00:00:15,100 --> 00:00:17,800 life, the experiences that you go through with the date of 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,500 mindset. And then I mean, anything and 7 00:00:20,500 --> 00:00:24,300 everything is a potential source for collecting data. 8 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:28,700 You're listening to design future. 9 00:00:28,700 --> 00:00:32,600 Now, I'm Li Shan Wang. This episode is adapted from a 10 00:00:32,607 --> 00:00:34,400 webinar. A conversation that I had with 11 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,200 Georgia. Loopy Georgia is an information 12 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,700 designer advocate for data humanism and a partner at 13 00:00:40,700 --> 00:00:43,600 pentagram prior to joining pentagram. 14 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,500 She was a co-founder of accurate. 15 00:00:45,700 --> 00:00:49,100 A data-driven design firm with offices in Milan and New York. 16 00:00:49,500 --> 00:00:52,500 She's been named one of fast company's 100, most creative 17 00:00:52,500 --> 00:00:55,400 people in business and she recently joined the MIT. 18 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,200 Media lab as a director's fellow she has spoken at places like 19 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,000 Ted and adobe's 99 you and is exhibited her work at places 20 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,900 including the Museum of Modern Art in New York and the 21 00:01:05,908 --> 00:01:08,200 cooper-hewitt Smithsonian design Museum. 22 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,300 You can watch a video of the full webinar with Georgia loopy 23 00:01:11,300 --> 00:01:13,800 which includes an introduction by Georgia to our work with 24 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:18,500 visuals, on AIG a.org will post the direct link in the show 25 00:01:18,500 --> 00:01:30,200 notes. Georgia, thank you so much for 26 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,300 that presentation and for sharing a little bit about your 27 00:01:33,300 --> 00:01:37,300 work and your process with us. So, to kick off the Q&A, I would 28 00:01:37,300 --> 00:01:41,400 like to start with this idea of data humanism, which you've been 29 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,600 advocating. Yeah, I'd love to learn more 30 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,200 about this idea of data humanism to kick us out. 31 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,000 It's a gram is a different approach that are world that 32 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:54,600 besides focusing on how numbers then get represented. 33 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,400 It also focuses for me on the premises and the approach, the 34 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:01,200 data all kind of That is primarily human-made to because, 35 00:02:01,500 --> 00:02:04,300 as I always say, even if it does come from a sensor, well, a 36 00:02:04,300 --> 00:02:07,400 human being designed, the sensor and decided what to collect, and 37 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,800 what to leave out. And we're kind of like seeing it 38 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,500 really every day right now in our new consuming data, we spent 39 00:02:14,500 --> 00:02:17,000 them it. But it's really a premise that 40 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,700 as obvious as it sounds, ultimately says that data 41 00:02:20,700 --> 00:02:24,200 doesn't exist because data is an instrument that again, we human 42 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,600 being created to record reality and it is one of the tools that 43 00:02:28,700 --> 00:02:31,900 We have to represent reality but it's not really the true 44 00:02:31,900 --> 00:02:34,000 reality. But, you know, again, as obvious 45 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,400 as it sounds, sometimes this can get lost. 46 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,100 And if we then do a pre about this, you know, primaries, well, 47 00:02:40,100 --> 00:02:43,400 then design can really illuminate the storytelling 48 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,200 aspect of data. And, you know, we can even start 49 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,900 to embed these aspects that make us, you want, you know, that our 50 00:02:50,900 --> 00:02:54,500 imperfect and messy and uncertain lives into how we 51 00:02:54,500 --> 00:02:58,200 collect and represent numbers. Because ultimately, what we want 52 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:02,400 to do, Really try to be as faithful as we can, to our 53 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,300 lives. Into our society, which again, 54 00:03:04,300 --> 00:03:08,400 is inserted, not not old recordable and sometimes really 55 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,700 than imperfect to how we do, how we actually represent, they do 56 00:03:12,500 --> 00:03:14,600 great. Yeah, I'd love to dig deeper 57 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,000 into this idea. This assertion you make about 58 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,800 data, not really existing or being more of a proxy for 59 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,000 reality. But since you also mention our 60 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:27,700 current pandemic situation, I guess I'd love to ask how you 61 00:03:27,700 --> 00:03:29,600 and your team had pain A gram or coping. 62 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:31,000 We also have an audience question. 63 00:03:31,100 --> 00:03:34,500 If you have any thoughts about how to visualize or make sense 64 00:03:34,500 --> 00:03:38,000 of this data coming out about the virus on the pandemic and 65 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,500 this health data and how we can make it more meaningful and 66 00:03:40,500 --> 00:03:43,600 human sure. Well there's so much that can be 67 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,900 said and also also because our inner also focus on design here. 68 00:03:46,900 --> 00:03:50,100 I think there's something that we can also touch upon about how 69 00:03:50,100 --> 00:03:53,600 designers can really learn and observe friend is like massive 70 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,000 change will like, it's a three-part question. 71 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,100 So how we're dealing in pain? Certain will pentagram. 72 00:03:58,100 --> 00:04:00,200 Is that? Is it kind of like a solid and 73 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,400 knocks Tony when young company and my partner is have seen and 74 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,100 experienced four sessions before. 75 00:04:05,100 --> 00:04:08,100 So you know we all Grizzly talk a lot about it and talk about 76 00:04:08,100 --> 00:04:11,800 also about these is really unprecedented but we are all 77 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,500 trying and personally I'm all well. 78 00:04:14,500 --> 00:04:15,800 Personally my practice have entered. 79 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,100 I'm just kind of knew because I joined only one year ago, not 80 00:04:18,100 --> 00:04:21,800 even one year ago and what I'm what I am personally trying to 81 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,900 do is try to keep being positive and motivated myself to them, be 82 00:04:25,900 --> 00:04:28,900 able to motivate my team which is also pretty any other Started 83 00:04:28,900 --> 00:04:33,300 working with me recently and creating opportunity for my team 84 00:04:33,300 --> 00:04:36,500 for myself to work on hopefully useful and needed projects. 85 00:04:36,500 --> 00:04:41,200 I mean this moment in time but also keeping our minds open to 86 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:45,300 what is supposed covid reality still reflecting on how to 87 00:04:45,300 --> 00:04:49,900 design practices might change or on how ways that we will need to 88 00:04:49,900 --> 00:04:53,200 design my take into consideration different aspects 89 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:59,800 and in them to get into the actual idea of I ended well then 90 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,100 how visualizing data it's different. 91 00:05:02,100 --> 00:05:04,900 I think it's a different conversation, but I think at 92 00:05:04,908 --> 00:05:08,800 this point, it's early to talk about how things will change. 93 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,800 But I think as designers really keeping a night out in 94 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,700 observing, what's happening as the best that we can do? 95 00:05:15,100 --> 00:05:18,400 Because in as in all of the moments of Crisis, it's an 96 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,800 opportunity to especially now to explore different ways that we 97 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:23,800 can leave. The four ways that we can be at 98 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,600 home or coexist. In the planet, it's an 99 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,600 opportunity to explore how We are dealing with such a deep 100 00:05:30,700 --> 00:05:33,600 kind of like a people in our and have their lives and habits. 101 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,500 How we are? We coping, you know, these are 102 00:05:35,700 --> 00:05:38,200 questions that if we start observing and like, you know 103 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:42,200 paying noticed, will be helpful for, you know, the post that 104 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,600 they intense covid situation, we will all know that we all know 105 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:50,400 that you will not get back to normal in a, in a second, so 106 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:54,400 that we a transition, but also how our cities are coping out 107 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:58,000 our societies coping. I think it can be seen as a, if 108 00:05:58,000 --> 00:05:59,500 we want to see. A positive way. 109 00:05:59,500 --> 00:06:04,400 It Collective experiment with so much to learn from and and yeah 110 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:10,000 also if we think about design in general design is always one of 111 00:06:10,008 --> 00:06:13,300 the things that design and also arts does is imagining what 112 00:06:13,300 --> 00:06:15,300 doesn't exist yet. And so I think there's a lot of 113 00:06:15,300 --> 00:06:18,400 potential for re-imagination and then I mean we can talk about 114 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,500 data visualization, more in depth but I've been talking a 115 00:06:21,508 --> 00:06:24,500 lot these questions. No, I'm there's so many threads 116 00:06:24,500 --> 00:06:27,200 there and I could talk all day and I appreciate all of these 117 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:28,500 audience questions that are coming in. 118 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,600 In from all over the world across the u.s. we have Italy 119 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,200 Catalunya Mexico. I can't even save them all or 120 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,900 I'll get in trouble for leaving. Somebody help and we see you and 121 00:06:36,900 --> 00:06:40,500 thank you for joining in. I guess one thread I would like 122 00:06:40,500 --> 00:06:44,700 to dig deeper into is this idea of identity, right? 123 00:06:44,700 --> 00:06:47,500 That this covid situation is shaking out of our Collective 124 00:06:47,500 --> 00:06:52,500 identities, but even before that situation, you identify as an 125 00:06:52,500 --> 00:06:55,800 information designer but you have a focus on data. 126 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,500 So I'd love to understand more of that choice. 127 00:06:58,700 --> 00:07:01,300 Is and maybe also, if you could weave in, maybe your 128 00:07:01,300 --> 00:07:03,900 architecture background as well because that's another identity 129 00:07:04,300 --> 00:07:07,300 that you have or well. I mean, I think it's a me 130 00:07:07,300 --> 00:07:09,800 information design. Is it will say data and data 131 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,300 visualization is a subset of information design. 132 00:07:12,300 --> 00:07:15,200 So, this is why I defined myself moreover of an information 133 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,400 designer, rather than the day the results section designer. 134 00:07:18,700 --> 00:07:21,100 And information design means really shaping. 135 00:07:21,100 --> 00:07:24,800 The ways that we design experiences around information. 136 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,000 I think the then data visualization is a part of it, 137 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,800 but designing experiences. This means too much more. 138 00:07:29,900 --> 00:07:32,300 It means sometimes also designing how the data are 139 00:07:32,300 --> 00:07:34,200 collected. As I mentioned, most of the 140 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,600 times in my work, I also designed the data set, you could 141 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,500 make sense because again most of the time just were like a 142 00:07:40,500 --> 00:07:44,300 journalistic an authorial work but also designing an experience 143 00:07:44,300 --> 00:07:48,300 can really designing a mobile app designing and environmental 144 00:07:48,300 --> 00:07:51,600 experience in a museum and it means designing a book. 145 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,800 And so this is why I think to me than did. 146 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,200 It was all this time is only the fine. 147 00:07:56,300 --> 00:07:59,500 Well, not the final but it is a subset of All the information 148 00:07:59,500 --> 00:08:03,600 design and I do really, I do really think that I am a 149 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,800 designer much more than in artist or any other like 150 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:09,900 identities, like professional identity. 151 00:08:09,900 --> 00:08:14,500 One can see me through because I think I thrive with constraints 152 00:08:14,500 --> 00:08:18,800 that and rules and problems to solve rather than just open 153 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,500 ideas and well like macaroni art detector. 154 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,300 I can see it now, but I don't know how much it is in hindsight 155 00:08:25,300 --> 00:08:27,600 and in retrospect. But to me again, architect or 156 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,800 was it was my way. Way to merge my need for rules 157 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:32,200 and numbers and organization with. 158 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,500 Also the way to, you know, they need to express myself usually 159 00:08:35,500 --> 00:08:38,600 and creatively. So, not knowing when I needed 160 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:40,100 this, I want to study for college or day. 161 00:08:40,100 --> 00:08:42,200 There was competition is and not knowing that they did was will 162 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,600 say she was even a thing. That was my way to start merging 163 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:47,900 these two Souls that I think I have. 164 00:08:47,900 --> 00:08:51,400 Yeah, that's so beautiful. This idea of merging Two Souls 165 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,100 that you have since you've shared a little bit about your 166 00:08:54,100 --> 00:08:56,900 own Journey. I've seen as a pattern in these 167 00:08:56,900 --> 00:09:00,400 questions coming in online. You're curious about any advice 168 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,100 that you might give to design students or designers who want 169 00:09:04,100 --> 00:09:06,200 to transition into doing more work with data. 170 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,500 If you have any thoughts on what they could do, what they could 171 00:09:08,500 --> 00:09:11,400 learn or books or any sort of struggle, starting points. 172 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,800 I mean there's so much out there, they're like books, there 173 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,500 are webinars and how their online courses, but I think 174 00:09:18,500 --> 00:09:21,300 their tools are you can learn their tools that can help you 175 00:09:21,300 --> 00:09:24,800 actually use data and visualize them even if you don't code. 176 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:30,000 But I think in general it might sound as Occurs, but I would say 177 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,300 to start seeing data everywhere. So to start counting and 178 00:09:33,300 --> 00:09:36,400 observing and collecting and still pretty much adopting the 179 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,600 data mentality and observing things everything like from your 180 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:44,000 life, the experiences that you go through with a data mindset 181 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:48,600 and then I mean anything and everything is a potential source 182 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,400 for collecting data from your conversation with the things 183 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,800 that you observed, your relationship everything. 184 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:57,900 And then once you have that, I would say that source of 185 00:09:57,900 --> 00:10:00,300 information. Destructor in the way of data, 186 00:10:00,300 --> 00:10:02,800 like counting things and that details. 187 00:10:03,100 --> 00:10:06,500 Well, that is a designer and think it's a better of adopting 188 00:10:06,500 --> 00:10:10,800 gay, if then, that mentality because it's about creating 189 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,600 rules. Let's say if I counted as many 190 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:18,000 things, I will draw as many shapes and if that is, you know, 191 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,900 I don't know how our long that will be as long if that was a 192 00:10:21,908 --> 00:10:24,400 planning in a long. You will be as long, you know, 193 00:10:24,500 --> 00:10:26,300 it's really, it's really pretty much about that. 194 00:10:26,300 --> 00:10:29,300 I would say that in to observe with The eyes of the data 195 00:10:29,300 --> 00:10:35,300 collector and and then adopting it, if blank, then blank 196 00:10:35,300 --> 00:10:37,900 mentality for using rules in your design. 197 00:10:38,100 --> 00:10:41,200 But then really, really then they're like so many tools will 198 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,900 the Alberto Cairo spokes are I think kind of like a very 199 00:10:44,900 --> 00:10:48,200 important work especially for data journalism but also I would 200 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:52,600 say you know, get visually inspired by things that that 201 00:10:52,900 --> 00:10:55,700 recall you to a data visualization that you might 202 00:10:55,700 --> 00:10:58,400 have experienced in prom. And I always say that they do. 203 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,000 Relation students and designers, do not necessarily get inspired 204 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,000 by already existent that there was allegations. 205 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,800 But rather, and we rather from things from the world art and 206 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,200 visual environment is that you are really attractive, do that 207 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,300 can really then help you get your own. 208 00:11:14,300 --> 00:11:16,500 I wouldn't call it style because that's, that's kind of 209 00:11:16,500 --> 00:11:19,800 controversial, but you are unique way of translating 210 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,500 numbers into images. That's great. 211 00:11:22,500 --> 00:11:25,900 This idea of the data mindset, I think that's the first time I've 212 00:11:25,900 --> 00:11:28,200 heard that term and also get it out. 213 00:11:28,500 --> 00:11:31,400 Oh, that's that's great. And also this idea of if then 214 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:35,200 that right, that also reminds me of computational thinking 215 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,900 whether or not you have a computer science background or 216 00:11:37,900 --> 00:11:40,300 coding background, you can still think about these kind of 217 00:11:40,300 --> 00:11:43,600 conditional logic, sand ways of creating things with rules. 218 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,800 As you mentioned, another question that I had, but also a 219 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,700 common question, that's coming up in our over 100 comments 220 00:11:49,700 --> 00:11:53,100 coming in online now and is about inspiration which you've 221 00:11:53,100 --> 00:11:55,900 already mentioned. But what do you look for for 222 00:11:55,900 --> 00:11:58,200 inspiration or what? You look at for inspiration and 223 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:02,200 what Giving you hope right now. Okay, well for visual 224 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,600 inspiration. I now at this point, I know that 225 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:09,700 there are some would say, areas visual area that I really that 226 00:12:09,700 --> 00:12:13,600 are really long looking at well abstract art, it's a constant 227 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,600 infinite source of information. For me is duration for me 228 00:12:16,900 --> 00:12:19,400 because if you think about it it's already kind of like, in 229 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,100 information design language where they're abstract shapes 230 00:12:22,100 --> 00:12:25,100 and symbols that actually represent a reality. 231 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,300 They know visually in general, abstract art is really inspiring 232 00:12:28,300 --> 00:12:32,700 for Or me, then I have a visual attractiveness, right? 233 00:12:32,700 --> 00:12:36,500 And we would usually attracted by a musical notation system. 234 00:12:36,500 --> 00:12:39,700 So there's so much also in contemporary music notation that 235 00:12:39,700 --> 00:12:44,700 goes beyond the usual score and have that can really serve as a 236 00:12:44,700 --> 00:12:47,900 source of inspiration for me and again, why? 237 00:12:47,900 --> 00:12:50,600 Because it's you're ready and information design system. 238 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,700 So translating something that you can play in real life where 239 00:12:53,700 --> 00:12:57,000 you can hear into a notation system that people can read and 240 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:58,700 Playback. So I think there are rules Was 241 00:12:58,700 --> 00:13:02,000 that somehow work already and then also, you know, if it's 242 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:03,700 like kind base. And so, there's already a 243 00:13:03,700 --> 00:13:08,400 structure like that, I am always inspired also by by nature and 244 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,600 scientific drawings and astronomy, but I think that 245 00:13:12,700 --> 00:13:16,300 every designer should find their own ways to see. 246 00:13:16,300 --> 00:13:19,700 So, really learning how to see and learning how to set the 247 00:13:19,700 --> 00:13:23,700 qualities of the think that you were attracted to into how then 248 00:13:23,700 --> 00:13:25,600 you work. Design-wise with data is super 249 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,000 important because otherwise, everybody will be inspired by 250 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:29,100 this. Same thing. 251 00:13:29,100 --> 00:13:32,600 So this is this is for me but also but also really, I mean, I 252 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,900 would say learning how to see and how to understand what you 253 00:13:35,900 --> 00:13:38,400 like, what you like. If you like an image, like a 254 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,500 painting, you like, you know, something that you see, what is 255 00:13:41,500 --> 00:13:43,300 that you like? Is it the composition of these 256 00:13:43,300 --> 00:13:45,500 shapes? Is it like a balance of 257 00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:49,900 priorities is in colors, is it? So you know learning to do that. 258 00:13:49,900 --> 00:13:53,200 I think is the first step and what inspires me right now and 259 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:57,000 gives me hope right now. Well I think, you know, all of 260 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,600 the Dynamics and practice Are coming out to like, you know, 261 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,600 people are way more connected kindness of people that are 262 00:14:03,608 --> 00:14:05,900 helping each other. Again, these bottom at 263 00:14:05,900 --> 00:14:08,200 practices. But also, as we can see, I mean 264 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:12,600 at a global level, all the world coming together to really to 265 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,000 really focus on this, very problem that we have and I don't 266 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,800 know, I think, in general, in a moment of Crisis, you're always 267 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,500 opportunity for personal and societal growth and even if 268 00:14:23,500 --> 00:14:26,700 somehow, and it's really hard for me, not only for, you know, 269 00:14:27,100 --> 00:14:30,200 personally like to see you since Sometimes it's hard to see when 270 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:31,700 you're immersed in business certainty. 271 00:14:31,700 --> 00:14:36,100 I think that I'm hopeful for a stronger wiser and more 272 00:14:36,100 --> 00:14:41,300 connected and tune the in ways of living that we might not be 273 00:14:41,300 --> 00:14:44,100 able to explore after this. Yeah, hopefully. 274 00:14:44,100 --> 00:14:47,900 So I agree with you that there is this kind of tension right 275 00:14:47,900 --> 00:14:50,800 now between seeing the best and the worst of people and that 276 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,200 were in some ways more connected than ever because we have to be, 277 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,600 or we have to make the effort while we're still disconnected. 278 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,400 I wanted to connect You just said, with something you said, 279 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,500 previously, actually in your Ted Talk where you share it, an 280 00:15:03,500 --> 00:15:06,400 anecdote about growing up in Italy during the rise of 281 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,900 Berlusconi and how you see some parallels with this experience 282 00:15:10,900 --> 00:15:14,800 that we're living with Trump, but the filter bubbles that were 283 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,000 living in, or based on our social networks of the content 284 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,100 that we see. And do you have any thoughts on 285 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,700 this idea of these filter bubbles or kind of the sameness 286 00:15:23,700 --> 00:15:26,300 of what we're seeing and experiencing is, we're living in 287 00:15:26,300 --> 00:15:30,200 this time of social distancing. That's, that's an interesting 288 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,400 question. I don't know if I thought enough 289 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:33,900 about it. I think there's definitely a 290 00:15:33,900 --> 00:15:37,500 parallel to what I was describing, but now we are way 291 00:15:37,500 --> 00:15:39,300 more. I think connected and opened to 292 00:15:39,300 --> 00:15:44,200 recognizing, and to looking for sources that we were before, but 293 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,600 also it's pretty interesting moment in time because everyone 294 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,600 is looking for data and constantly checking data. 295 00:15:51,900 --> 00:15:54,600 We were coming from a place where there were only a few of 296 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,300 us that cared as much about data. 297 00:15:57,300 --> 00:16:02,400 As we I think like, All are, we want sources if we can trust 298 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,300 sometimes. I mean, to be honest, we also 299 00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:07,300 want to believe the data that might confirm the most positive 300 00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:12,100 Trends and outcomes. And we are going for, we're 301 00:16:12,100 --> 00:16:15,000 looking for data to feel that. There's something we can 302 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:20,500 control, and I don't know if it's a moment of do we trust 303 00:16:20,500 --> 00:16:24,200 data or do we not trust it? I think, you know, in general 304 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,800 it's a moment for it comes out to a problem with data literacy. 305 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:29,700 And I think We're ready to deal with it. 306 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,800 So I mean another from answering your question but I think the 307 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,900 point here for us all and for like journalists and people who 308 00:16:36,900 --> 00:16:40,500 put data out there is making sure that people understand how 309 00:16:40,500 --> 00:16:43,400 data are collected. The missing data point there are 310 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:45,900 uncollected that are as important as the data that we 311 00:16:45,900 --> 00:16:48,400 see. Also, you know, this big red 312 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,900 dots that we see them in here, times Maps, like, how hard it 313 00:16:51,900 --> 00:16:53,700 generated? What is, what is really the 314 00:16:53,700 --> 00:16:57,000 process for that and and also how to relate to the more 315 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,800 person, an individual story? We read in promotional articles 316 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,800 into Howell than the data that we see are aggregated. 317 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,599 So I think I think it's truly right now, a matter of that 318 00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:10,099 electricity and we were in a really good moment, in time to 319 00:17:10,099 --> 00:17:13,900 start showing people, how things are collected are things are 320 00:17:13,900 --> 00:17:17,300 aggregated, all things are made and the you want aspect of it. 321 00:17:17,300 --> 00:17:19,599 I don't know if we're living in bubbles, we're leaving in. 322 00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:23,500 They do bubbles because we want to rely on data or how we 323 00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:28,300 interpret the uncertainty and I mean, definitely having data. 324 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,200 It's much better than not having data. 325 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,200 This is the whole General point of might work but we need to be 326 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:37,400 mindful on how we present them and on how much we include about 327 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,300 the data collection process, right? 328 00:17:40,300 --> 00:17:43,500 Well thank you. I'm also seeing this pattern in 329 00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:46,700 the questions coming through about how do you balance these 330 00:17:46,700 --> 00:17:50,700 different trade-offs between so you Simplicity and legibility 331 00:17:50,700 --> 00:17:55,400 Beauty but also communicating the real complexity Behind These 332 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,400 datasets and these human stories. 333 00:17:57,700 --> 00:18:01,700 I know it's like Case-by-case basis on how you deal with that. 334 00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:04,700 But do you have any thoughts on how to deal with these 335 00:18:04,700 --> 00:18:07,700 trade-offs or how to start developing that mindset? 336 00:18:08,500 --> 00:18:10,100 Sure. I mean I think in general, 337 00:18:10,100 --> 00:18:13,900 another premise that I want to make is that to me data, while 338 00:18:13,900 --> 00:18:17,800 data visualization is not about simplifying the world because 339 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,200 our reality is complexes, which is dense is contextual. 340 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,100 It's about giving access to that complexity. 341 00:18:24,100 --> 00:18:27,800 And so depending on how much you want readers, where users are 342 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:33,300 visitors, To engage meaning like is it a 30-second moment or even 343 00:18:33,300 --> 00:18:36,200 like 10 second moment, when your audience whatever it is needs to 344 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,100 engage or can they spend more time? 345 00:18:39,100 --> 00:18:42,200 Will that is the spectrum that can help you understand? 346 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,600 You know, do I do? I do a very rich and dense thing 347 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:50,400 with a very thorough legend or do I use somehow conventional 348 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:56,000 ways to represent data such as no red for danger and green for 349 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,800 it's all okay, because I need somebody to Really interpret it 350 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,200 really, really quickly. I always say that like my work 351 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,700 with data is mostly for, I mean, it would say entertainment or 352 00:19:07,700 --> 00:19:10,800 new knowledge making rather their immediate decision making 353 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,100 processes. And again, there's really your 354 00:19:14,100 --> 00:19:16,200 said it right there. So there's this Factor when 355 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:20,200 there's a balance, but if I need to design a dashboard for a 356 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,400 pilot to land a plane, I probably wouldn't require him to 357 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,100 be the legend. But if I'm talking about 358 00:19:26,100 --> 00:19:29,100 accomplish reality, in an exhibition, People can take 359 00:19:29,100 --> 00:19:30,900 their time. I think there's a value in 360 00:19:30,900 --> 00:19:35,300 trying to make their experience with the content through design 361 00:19:35,300 --> 00:19:37,600 as rich as possible. It's a spectrum. 362 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,400 It's a spectrum that case, by case you need to design, you 363 00:19:41,408 --> 00:19:46,500 need to decide where your stand. But I think again in situations 364 00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:50,100 where you can have readers attention, there's a value in 365 00:19:50,100 --> 00:19:52,800 showing somehow. I wouldn't necessarily say the 366 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:57,000 complexity of the context and the richness of the information 367 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,800 that you work with. Yeah, I think context is really 368 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,400 important and I feel like I see this connection between your 369 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,900 response about contacts with your previous point about data, 370 00:20:06,900 --> 00:20:09,100 being a placeholder for the real thing, right? 371 00:20:09,100 --> 00:20:11,400 And that it's a placeholder. But even when it is a 372 00:20:11,408 --> 00:20:15,800 placeholder that meeting, or that usefulness also changes to 373 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,600 based on the context. So there's also because this is 374 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,400 a design audience, there's all sorts of questions about some of 375 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,900 your preferred tools, whether you code with our or python or 376 00:20:25,900 --> 00:20:28,000 what your favorite iPad drawing tool. 377 00:20:28,100 --> 00:20:31,300 Is do you have any sort of tools and things like that you want to 378 00:20:31,300 --> 00:20:33,300 share you do, by the way? I'm just seeing. 379 00:20:33,300 --> 00:20:36,100 Now that are 132 questions. Yeah. 380 00:20:36,100 --> 00:20:38,300 There's so many and so sorry we can't get to all of them 381 00:20:38,300 --> 00:20:40,700 everyone but it's great to see people from all over the world. 382 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:42,400 Yeah. Well and thank you for the 383 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,700 questions that everybody so I personally don't code. 384 00:20:45,700 --> 00:20:47,500 I am. And I come I don't come from a 385 00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:51,100 computer scientist background. So I my favorite tools for 386 00:20:51,100 --> 00:20:54,300 making sense of data are always like a pencil and like pencils 387 00:20:54,300 --> 00:20:56,800 and pens and paper because I always like to think about the 388 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,800 structure of the data set. First, meaning like, you know, 389 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,000 understanding do I have five thousand data points or 50 data 390 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,000 points? What are the categories in the 391 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,600 actual was that I have? And to me, that is a thing that 392 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,200 I Do by hand primarily. Then I do work with developers 393 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,500 all the time and really lucky that in my team's, it accurate, 394 00:21:15,500 --> 00:21:19,300 it has 2 G, I have amazing software developers to help me 395 00:21:19,300 --> 00:21:22,200 like prototype, but also been tell me and you know, developed, 396 00:21:22,300 --> 00:21:25,800 they actually sold stations. I have started to work within 397 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,800 with iPads with my iPhone very Very, very open. 398 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:33,100 I really love drawing data on my iPad and I just used procreate, 399 00:21:33,100 --> 00:21:35,600 which is an app that is, it's enough for drawing. 400 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,700 So there's nothing that can get automated data wise in the app, 401 00:21:39,700 --> 00:21:42,200 but I think it's just the app that I really like, I 402 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,700 collaborate with my team in my designers, and so they have, and 403 00:21:45,700 --> 00:21:49,300 we have whole sort of skills from working from scratch to to 404 00:21:49,300 --> 00:21:52,900 Adobe Illustrator, to actually, prototyping and coding. 405 00:21:52,900 --> 00:21:57,100 So yeah, but if it, again, I make sense of data with pencils 406 00:21:57,100 --> 00:22:01,800 and paper, One of the audience members just said, oh man, did 407 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,500 he just make my soul jump for joy pencil and paper. 408 00:22:04,500 --> 00:22:08,200 So I think it's resonating with a lot of folks wherever they are 409 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,500 on that spectrum between coding and hand drawing things. 410 00:22:11,500 --> 00:22:14,800 So we only have a very few questions left and I know over 411 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,500 100 open question. So I guess I'll just leave 412 00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:18,900 something. Open-ended for Georgia. 413 00:22:18,900 --> 00:22:22,100 Any final thoughts that you want to share with people, anything 414 00:22:22,100 --> 00:22:25,300 you want to share besides staying safe and healthy. 415 00:22:25,300 --> 00:22:29,400 What are what's next for you? What's next for me? 416 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,600 Well, but what's next? For me, and me that I 417 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,100 anticipated before I am trying to. 418 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,900 And again, it was early and the past weeks to really start work 419 00:22:37,900 --> 00:22:40,500 on the project. It was about the pandemic. 420 00:22:40,500 --> 00:22:43,200 I didn't want to do it. I think it was kind of like an 421 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,400 observing mode but now with my team we're pitching and trying 422 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,200 to find ways to work on meaningful projects that can 423 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,300 document part of what's going on but also maybe Envision and 424 00:22:54,300 --> 00:22:57,100 anticipate. What I what will be I think 425 00:22:57,100 --> 00:23:00,100 again what I can say If the designers and again, I'm just 426 00:23:00,100 --> 00:23:02,500 not one way to do it. There's not one way to design 427 00:23:02,500 --> 00:23:06,300 for the design for the coast, but I can really keep your eyes 428 00:23:06,300 --> 00:23:08,100 open. Observe observe what's different 429 00:23:08,100 --> 00:23:10,200 than before? Observe, what are the tools that 430 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,400 I before? We're used for a certain things 431 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,100 that now get translated into a different, you know, social and 432 00:23:16,100 --> 00:23:19,000 interactive tool or anything like that on the cool side, but 433 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,200 also really did dynamics that are changing. 434 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,800 How are we leaving differently? What are the things do? 435 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,700 We can learn for how our interactions with physical 436 00:23:26,700 --> 00:23:28,200 spaces. And actually, withdraw, Rather 437 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,700 than with people is changing now that can the fact a transition 438 00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:35,600 phase after that. And I mean, it's my case. 439 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,900 We can just really try and stay positive because as much as it's 440 00:23:38,900 --> 00:23:42,500 hard to sleep now is just a moment for growth and for 441 00:23:42,500 --> 00:23:46,400 interconnection. Well thank you for taking some 442 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,400 time out of your busy schedule. I'm sure to share your thoughts 443 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:51,900 with us to share your work with us. 444 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,100 Thank you. Everyone from all over the world 445 00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:56,400 who have joined in and asked her questions. 446 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:57,900 So sorry if we couldn't get to you. 447 00:23:58,100 --> 00:24:01,200 But hopefully, we can continue continue this conversation on 448 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,300 Twitter, you can look for Georgia, pentagram on Twitter, 449 00:24:04,300 --> 00:24:07,400 you can find me at least Shawn or aiga design and we can 450 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,400 continue there and continue these conversations and hope you 451 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,600 all stay healthy and safe and keep on making work. 452 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,800 That's human and works with data. 453 00:24:17,300 --> 00:24:19,100 Thank you. It was really a pleasure I wish 454 00:24:19,100 --> 00:24:21,500 I could see you all everybody. Thanks for joining. 455 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,200 And thanks again for listening to design future. 456 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,400 Now, a production of aiga the professional association for 457 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,200 design. I'm Li Shan Wang find us and hit 458 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,400 us up on social media at designed future. 459 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,400 Now, we would love to hear from you. 460 00:24:37,700 --> 00:24:40,500 I hope you're staying safe and healthy until next time.