1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,900 So, the opening scene of our Anthem film is a young black boy 2 00:00:04,900 --> 00:00:08,500 saying, what if the world could see me the way I see me? 3 00:00:09,700 --> 00:00:12,200 And that's that's what this is about. 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,600 We all just want to be seen for who we are. 5 00:00:17,300 --> 00:00:21,200 Welcome to aig's design adjacent in this podcast. 6 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:26,000 We explore topics and areas that intersect with design to explore 7 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:29,400 the shifts in how we interact with each other and the world 8 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:34,600 around us join aiga as executive director nef Johnson in 9 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,600 conversation with industry leaders who are innovating and 10 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:43,200 designing the future. Hello, and welcome to design 11 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:47,200 adjacent this show that talks about the Nexus of design both 12 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,400 today. And tomorrow, I'm your host, 13 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,700 Vinnie Johnson. Today, we're going to talk about 14 00:00:53,700 --> 00:00:57,800 strategy in particular design strategy, marketing strategy. 15 00:00:58,300 --> 00:01:03,200 Our Guest today is none other than a b Alan founder of neon 16 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:08,200 butterfly a bit about a be as long as a bee can remember. 17 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,900 She's been With people and why they do it. 18 00:01:11,900 --> 00:01:17,300 They do, you know, always aware of those around her and apparent 19 00:01:17,300 --> 00:01:18,700 differences in choice, if they're made. 20 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:23,500 She's for ever been outside of the boxes in an uncomfortable 21 00:01:23,500 --> 00:01:25,400 place. At first, the one she's come to 22 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:29,300 realize has allowed her to connect in depth with the depth 23 00:01:29,300 --> 00:01:32,700 and richness of The Human Condition and take in an array 24 00:01:32,700 --> 00:01:34,300 of perspectives from the world around her. 25 00:01:35,100 --> 00:01:37,600 It's in that vein that she was drawn into the world of 26 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,900 communications. And she has worked in 27 00:01:39,900 --> 00:01:43,500 advertising and marketing for the last 15 years. 28 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,300 With some of the largest Brands and agencies across the country. 29 00:01:48,300 --> 00:01:51,700 But it's a long this way that she grew tired of the 30 00:01:51,700 --> 00:01:55,800 inefficient and ineffective one-size-fits-all approach. 31 00:01:55,900 --> 00:02:00,000 That is so often use an agency's, she noticed that in 32 00:02:00,008 --> 00:02:04,100 small business startups and entrepreneurs lack the access to 33 00:02:04,100 --> 00:02:06,800 the same caliber of resources, if he's bigger Brands. 34 00:02:07,300 --> 00:02:11,500 And it's with that that she started neon butterfly to offer 35 00:02:11,500 --> 00:02:18,600 more to people in a better way. It's connections that unexpected 36 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,800 and surprising that have really driven a be in neon butterfly 37 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,900 from almost a decade of formal study in Tibet and booze isn't 38 00:02:26,900 --> 00:02:32,600 and yoga to prioritizing the art of creating business and 39 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,400 livelihood in supporting a quality of life. 40 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:39,200 Peace of mind in a better world. So for Abby, it's not just about 41 00:02:39,300 --> 00:02:42,600 turning a profit without regard for anything else, but she 42 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,300 infuses in her work, This wisdom and intention. 43 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:52,800 It's kind of the Nexus of humanity skill rigor in life, 44 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,400 that every brings together. So, I'd like to thank Evie for 45 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,500 joining us on this episode of Designing, a jacent. 46 00:02:59,500 --> 00:03:02,800 Thank you. Thanks for having me. 47 00:03:04,300 --> 00:03:07,900 It's it's really great. You have an amazing background 48 00:03:07,900 --> 00:03:09,600 adding Rick. We were talking a bit about 49 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:11,700 earlier. Tell us all a bit about your 50 00:03:11,700 --> 00:03:14,300 journey. Yeah, and I will say it's 20 51 00:03:14,300 --> 00:03:19,600 years doing this. Hey, Joe right out of school. 52 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:24,000 So I went to I'm Leah like you, I asked yes she has. 53 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,100 I was born and raised in Manhattan and all the guy don't 54 00:03:27,100 --> 00:03:29,500 want to. It's almost it's a little sad, 55 00:03:29,500 --> 00:03:32,500 but I was like, I don't want to go to a school with a frat seen 56 00:03:32,500 --> 00:03:35,600 cuz I really honestly Want to deal with like the racism that 57 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,500 often happens. And so I was like, let me just 58 00:03:38,500 --> 00:03:41,200 stay stay in New York like what's better than here? 59 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,200 So I studied history, and then Saatchi & Saatchi came to 60 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,300 recruit and they were like, are you interested in people and why 61 00:03:50,300 --> 00:03:51,200 they do it? They do. 62 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,700 You should try advertising. And I was like, yes, yes, how do 63 00:03:54,700 --> 00:03:58,500 advertising, you know? So then that's how it all 64 00:03:58,500 --> 00:04:03,900 started and I almost immediately was like, I'm gonna learn how to 65 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,100 To use media and marketing to do good. 66 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:08,700 Right? Honestly, I didn't know how that 67 00:04:08,700 --> 00:04:11,600 was going to manifest over the years, but I was like, I'm going 68 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:16,000 to start my journey in the big Ad Agency World, working on 69 00:04:16,399 --> 00:04:21,200 serious OG marketing Brands, like, PNG brand, like, learn 70 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,900 from the best and then see where that takes me and how I can use 71 00:04:24,900 --> 00:04:28,000 that to make the world a better place, quite frankly, right? 72 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,300 So interesting. The had that training at P&G, we 73 00:04:30,300 --> 00:04:33,600 talked about so that modern concept of bran is invented 74 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,800 Piaget And kind of have that training is shaped a generation 75 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:39,700 of marketers. But today, we're at this 76 00:04:39,700 --> 00:04:41,900 incredible Pivot Point, right? Yes. 77 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:44,900 So, it's like, what have you taken from that kind of 78 00:04:44,900 --> 00:04:47,900 classical traditional training, and marketing and brand to apply 79 00:04:47,900 --> 00:04:50,400 to our new world today? Yeah. 80 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:56,000 So I think I always say like, from discipline comes Freedom, 81 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:58,300 right? And, you know, there's so many 82 00:04:58,300 --> 00:05:01,300 like it's almost like kids today are just everyone, you know, 83 00:05:01,300 --> 00:05:03,000 thinks, like I'm just going to be a Founder. 84 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,900 I'm just going to start a business and they have no idea 85 00:05:05,900 --> 00:05:09,700 what that really means or like the solid foundation, you know. 86 00:05:09,900 --> 00:05:12,600 And a lot of people will, you know, kind of get frustrated 87 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,500 with p and he's rigor and the processes. 88 00:05:14,500 --> 00:05:19,700 But like when you learn those things, like how to evaluate 89 00:05:19,700 --> 00:05:22,600 advertising, how to think about, right? 90 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,900 Your audience, how to, how to identify white space, in the 91 00:05:25,900 --> 00:05:31,100 marketplace, then then design and all the creative B. 92 00:05:31,100 --> 00:05:33,900 All the bells, and whistles calm from that. 93 00:05:34,100 --> 00:05:37,000 I always say like if you don't start with strategy, you very 94 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:41,300 often like fail. You know, I mean, sure you have 95 00:05:41,300 --> 00:05:45,000 some unicorns but like you know it's the png's of the world that 96 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:46,500 really teach you like. Okay. 97 00:05:46,700 --> 00:05:49,700 What is the business goal that we're trying to achieve, right? 98 00:05:49,700 --> 00:05:53,100 Let's start there, develop a strategy, then figure out the 99 00:05:53,100 --> 00:05:56,000 best way to achieve the business goal and then make it look 100 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,900 pretty right? And to your point, you know, we 101 00:05:59,900 --> 00:06:03,900 often hear the word strategy and it gets thrown around without 102 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,300 any of that kind of core understanding that strategy 103 00:06:07,300 --> 00:06:10,900 really becomes your life blood as an organization, as a brand, 104 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,300 whether you're a billion-dollar brand or your two of us in 105 00:06:14,300 --> 00:06:15,300 Manhattan. Start now. 106 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:16,400 Right? Right. 107 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,600 Its strategy that the held some of us for it. 108 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,600 So what's been? I think about you know your 109 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,800 background. We want to talk a bit about that 110 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,700 Journey from a history. Major Columbia walk you to the 111 00:06:27,700 --> 00:06:30,700 world of advertising a spent some time working on these 112 00:06:30,700 --> 00:06:34,600 larger Brands. What really took Away from that 113 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,500 moment, right? You're working at some of the 114 00:06:36,500 --> 00:06:39,600 largest Brands and you see this opportunities inflection point, 115 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,400 talk a bit about that. Yeah, so I had, you know, it was 116 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,300 great to work on all these bigger Brands, obviously, 117 00:06:45,300 --> 00:06:48,200 because I learned a lot, you know, and I'm one of those 118 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,900 people that's always kind of pushing the envelope, no matter 119 00:06:50,900 --> 00:06:53,500 where I am. So even on Olay, right? 120 00:06:53,500 --> 00:06:56,200 I saw this opportunity. I worked on Olay, body care, 121 00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:01,500 personal cleansing, you know? And I I knew that like luxury 122 00:07:01,500 --> 00:07:04,000 Brands it started talking about shea butter and a ton of Of 123 00:07:04,008 --> 00:07:06,300 course I know the black community has been using shea 124 00:07:06,300 --> 00:07:10,600 butter, you know, before anybody was talking right like any white 125 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:14,900 people at say, you know. So I was like okay it's time for 126 00:07:14,900 --> 00:07:17,600 a body wash upgrade and this is when I was like a little baby 127 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,100 like assistant account executive, okay, Gregor like, 128 00:07:20,100 --> 00:07:24,100 how about I saw shea butter on the list of like, ingredients, 129 00:07:24,100 --> 00:07:27,700 we could add to the formula. Does it count early try adding 130 00:07:27,700 --> 00:07:29,500 shea butter? And of course, there was pushed 131 00:07:29,500 --> 00:07:33,100 back, like, oh, but people might find it too buttery and too 132 00:07:33,100 --> 00:07:35,400 greasy. Didn't, you know, I was like, 133 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,200 yeah. But when people start hearing 134 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,600 that, it's in these luxury Brands, they're not going to 135 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:40,100 care. I was it. 136 00:07:40,108 --> 00:07:42,800 Can we please at least take it into research, please please, 137 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,300 pretty. And can we use a dark-skinned 138 00:07:45,300 --> 00:07:49,100 black models, right? So long story short, I really, 139 00:07:49,100 --> 00:07:52,700 really fought for that and it ended up being like the best 140 00:07:52,700 --> 00:07:56,500 selling SKU that year. Like, what body wash was shea 141 00:07:56,500 --> 00:08:01,200 butter? So strategy there was like, I 142 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,800 knew that I had to go make it argument. 143 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,700 For a why this might work, right? 144 00:08:06,700 --> 00:08:10,000 It wasn't just like, ah, let's just try this based off of 145 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,400 nothing. So, I went and did my own, like, 146 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,900 research to identify the market opportunity, why it might work, 147 00:08:15,900 --> 00:08:17,600 you know them presented the case. 148 00:08:17,900 --> 00:08:21,200 So, over the years, it's like I continually kept honing those 149 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,900 chops, right? Like doing the research, right 150 00:08:24,900 --> 00:08:28,800 with consumers and with Trends, just in general borrowing, from 151 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:33,100 other Industries, you know, and having like my eyes and, and 152 00:08:33,100 --> 00:08:38,700 years always Open which again, is like, part of the reason why 153 00:08:38,700 --> 00:08:41,400 I moved to Cincinnati and just going to interject with that 154 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,500 right now because I think it's really important as people 155 00:08:45,500 --> 00:08:49,200 working in Creative, feels to continually be, pushing your own 156 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:53,300 beliefs and experiences and you cannot really be good at 157 00:08:53,300 --> 00:08:55,300 strategy. If you're continually just 158 00:08:55,300 --> 00:08:59,500 bringing the same old story to the table and not pushing 159 00:08:59,500 --> 00:09:01,800 yourself. So, you know, I was like, okay I 160 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,600 lived for 35 years in New York, I lived in London a bit Bolder 161 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,500 Colorado, I lived because I wanted to experience what it 162 00:09:08,500 --> 00:09:11,900 would be like to literally like be the only brown person on the 163 00:09:11,900 --> 00:09:17,400 street but I did a whole other storage fan La cuz you gotta go 164 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,700 to La and net a my gets tied five Midwestern phase and if 165 00:09:21,700 --> 00:09:25,400 dovetailing with the election so we can move to Cincinnati have 166 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:30,700 our vote Cal and experience what it's like to be in the midwest 167 00:09:30,700 --> 00:09:34,600 because everybody on the coast tends to just like No talk 168 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,600 negatively about people in the midwest as if it doesn't matter. 169 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:39,800 Right? We just fly over the Midwest, 170 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,000 their opinions don't matter. The coasts are where it's at and 171 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,900 I'm like, no, that's not a good way to think and is a creative 172 00:09:47,900 --> 00:09:51,500 and it's not going to make us better as human beings, right? 173 00:09:51,500 --> 00:09:54,800 Or as people working in Communications dry. 174 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,000 So I wanted to come here and experience the Midwest because 175 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:03,000 it will bring that perspective to my work and make me a better 176 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:04,900 artist. And a better person. 177 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:09,300 So I love your kind of story of this journey in this always 178 00:10:09,300 --> 00:10:12,200 being open. Yeah, and receptive and always 179 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,800 being hungry, right? You hear about it, you're 180 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,800 devouring ideas and knowledge and space and location, but 181 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,400 always being hungry. So, I'm going to play a little 182 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:25,200 bit, a tribute to the visual imagery of the late, Eric, 183 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,000 Carle. And I see you continuing being 184 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,800 hungry and hungry in your career and then a few years ago, about 185 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:33,800 a decade ago, you hidden inflection point. 186 00:10:33,900 --> 00:10:38,100 In which that hunger turns into the birth of neon butterfly. 187 00:10:38,100 --> 00:10:42,500 Yeah, so, you know, it started like, so I love doing a million 188 00:10:42,500 --> 00:10:45,700 different things as you can see, because again, I just want to 189 00:10:45,708 --> 00:10:49,200 like know as much as I can about people and experiences and all 190 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,500 of that. And I started doing a yoga 191 00:10:52,500 --> 00:10:54,600 teacher training program in New York before. 192 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:59,100 Everybody was doing yoga and I love the training program that I 193 00:10:59,100 --> 00:11:00,700 did so much. I was like, we need to Rebrand 194 00:11:00,700 --> 00:11:03,700 this and as an offering to my teacher Kelly. 195 00:11:03,900 --> 00:11:06,200 Morris. I rebranded the yoga teacher 196 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,400 training program and an enrollment tripled in a 197 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:10,800 semester. Wow. 198 00:11:10,900 --> 00:11:14,500 And then people started coming to me to help them, you know, 199 00:11:14,500 --> 00:11:17,800 with their small businesses and I was like, let me do this on 200 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,400 the side, has kind of like a pay, what you can situation, 201 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,900 I'll keep my Ad Agency job so that I don't have to compromise 202 00:11:25,900 --> 00:11:29,600 my Integrity over here and literally, let me just help 203 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,300 people. And then eventually I was like, 204 00:11:33,300 --> 00:11:36,600 oh, I could do, Just do this full time and I will say I went 205 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,400 back to the agency World a couple times, okay? 206 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:45,600 And there was one time the last time where this was right after 207 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,200 Ferguson happened, and I happen to be working at an agency. 208 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:52,300 I was brought in to help them win the Twitter account, okay? 209 00:11:52,300 --> 00:11:57,000 I won't name who it is but essentially they didn't want to 210 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,900 talk about black lives matter and we were pitching Twitter. 211 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,900 Mmm, Jack Dorsey was on the ground. 212 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:07,500 At Ferguson, right? So I said and I was the head I 213 00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:09,200 was the head strategist. Okay. 214 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,600 Okay. So I was like if we don't talk 215 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,200 about black lives matter we will lose fighting fighting fighting, 216 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,700 not getting listen to, I'm like oh this is what they mean about 217 00:12:17,700 --> 00:12:20,400 the racism sexism. But I had never fully 218 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:25,000 experienced it as in my face, as I had at this last experience, 219 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,600 right? And then the week before the 220 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,200 pitch, there happened to be a New York Times article that came 221 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,000 out with DeRay McKesson on the cover talking. 222 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,500 Out Twitter. And by plasma hooker, I sent it 223 00:12:36,500 --> 00:12:39,000 straight up to the global creative, right? 224 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:43,000 The worldwide Global. I was like Lissa and he's like, 225 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:47,300 oh yeah, why are we doing this? And so Lankin whom so anyway. 226 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,800 So that was my first. Like I don't need to fight like 227 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,800 this. Like I know that I'm right and 228 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,400 you know what I mean? Like I know I know I'm good at 229 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:58,400 what I do like why do I have to fight so hard and I know all 230 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,900 these little comments like why does Abby have to come to the 231 00:13:00,900 --> 00:13:04,300 pitch and then you know my boss Boss said well I don't want it 232 00:13:04,308 --> 00:13:07,800 to seem like it's just a bunch of white guys and I was like, oh 233 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,100 really. So, you know, after a few of 234 00:13:10,100 --> 00:13:13,100 those things, I was like, you know what I'm done, like, I 235 00:13:13,100 --> 00:13:16,600 don't need to do this, I'm going to start my own saying, right? 236 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:22,600 And do things my way and I'm going to make more of an effort 237 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:27,600 to diversify. The people whose voice is are 238 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:32,700 involved in creating campaigns. And I want to do things that 239 00:13:32,700 --> 00:13:34,100 really make a difference in the world. 240 00:13:34,100 --> 00:13:37,000 I don't want to continue to perpetuate this single 241 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:42,800 perspective, Ad Agency world, It's that's that's really how it 242 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,100 started and I was like I know it's going to be difficult 243 00:13:45,100 --> 00:13:48,300 because yeah I mean you know Benny like people always all I'm 244 00:13:48,300 --> 00:13:50,600 trying to find more different kinds of people to be on my 245 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,800 team's but it's so hard and I don't know where to look at and 246 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,400 yeah, it is really hard. But you know what? 247 00:13:56,700 --> 00:14:00,100 Like someone has to to it or it's never going to change and 248 00:14:00,100 --> 00:14:02,200 it's the most. It's the hard work. 249 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:03,900 That's the most valuable work, right? 250 00:14:03,900 --> 00:14:05,800 We see that in the things that we build. 251 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,600 We tell it to our teens. We tell it to our families. 252 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:10,900 Yeah, the hard work. That crazy. 253 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:12,300 Eames and matter. I love. 254 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,300 He grabbed me on butterfly. Your statement is neon. 255 00:14:15,300 --> 00:14:17,700 Butterfly is an agency that represents? 256 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,500 Yeah, and it's so eloquently and distinctly phrase right there. 257 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,700 Oh yeah. What you really are? 258 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,500 I love your mission. Is to help Brands connect with 259 00:14:27,500 --> 00:14:31,400 the changing face of both American, the world around them 260 00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:34,600 in changing in spaces in the ways in which people 261 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,000 communicate. And once again, you're fusing 262 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,400 that human insight and the rigors of business acumen. 263 00:14:41,300 --> 00:14:43,700 As you've spent about a decade working, in this role of 264 00:14:43,700 --> 00:14:45,900 capacity. What's been the most surprised 265 00:14:45,900 --> 00:14:47,600 your dad, okay? Oh, two decades. 266 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,600 Yeah, you can go back to that. I'm making you younger you die. 267 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,800 Now, I now put a, what's, what's been the most surprising thing 268 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:55,900 for you. As you think about, you know, 269 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,600 your business in the marketplace today. 270 00:14:58,900 --> 00:15:01,800 From when you first start it, what's been most surprising how 271 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:08,400 little it's changed interactive that diversity of people working 272 00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:12,900 at higher levels. So yes, you know, it's funny 273 00:15:12,900 --> 00:15:15,500 like, there's a lot of great organizations out there and 274 00:15:15,500 --> 00:15:19,100 getting younger designers of color, creatives of color 275 00:15:19,100 --> 00:15:21,500 account, people of color, you know, Anna. 276 00:15:21,500 --> 00:15:23,300 And we're not just talking about race and ethnicity. 277 00:15:23,300 --> 00:15:26,800 I am also talking about ability and all that other stuff, but 278 00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:31,600 but they don't make it right. The higher levels. 279 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,000 And, you know, I know people are, of course, doing work in 280 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,800 the space. But at the higher levels, you 281 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,900 don't see it very much and you know, people also are always at 282 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,100 Abby, I haven't heard about you, I haven't heard of you. 283 00:15:43,100 --> 00:15:45,600 I haven't heard of you. You haven't heard of me because 284 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,600 I'm over here doing the work and I'm not sitting in an 285 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,900 organization, just waiting to like climb the ladder, so that 286 00:15:52,900 --> 00:15:56,200 someone can Pat me on the back and point to the fact that oh, 287 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,200 we have a black woman in the c-suite, right? 288 00:15:59,300 --> 00:16:02,700 You know what I mean? And so so I what's surprising is 289 00:16:02,700 --> 00:16:06,200 how little it's changed. And so that's why I really 290 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:11,800 wanted to create a company that, that, at least, Us to do stew, 291 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,200 do things differently, you know, and I think I'm uniquely suited 292 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:19,900 to do it because I do, I have a white mom and I had a black dad. 293 00:16:20,300 --> 00:16:27,000 So, I literally know what it's like to live live owl and embody 294 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:31,400 different perspectives, right? And it comes through and 295 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:33,400 navigating, the work, work that you do. 296 00:16:33,900 --> 00:16:39,700 There's a quote that I love and it says, were more united in our 297 00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:41,600 Humanity together. Yeah. 298 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,200 And that's from Jennifer Lee Chief creative officer of Disney 299 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,000 and we're excited. We're talking today. 300 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,700 There's some new work that campaign, a major campaign that 301 00:16:50,700 --> 00:16:53,900 you've been a part of the just launched with the Walt Disney 302 00:16:53,900 --> 00:16:55,300 Company. Hello, feet it. 303 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:59,600 Yeah, I can't do it justice. It's really powerful and I love 304 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:01,100 Eat it to share with our listeners. 305 00:17:01,100 --> 00:17:03,300 This new campaign. Yeah. 306 00:17:03,300 --> 00:17:07,700 So the new campaign is called reimagine tomorrow and it's 307 00:17:07,700 --> 00:17:11,400 literally a dream come true for me. 308 00:17:11,700 --> 00:17:16,300 It started with Disney coming to me and, you know, I had already 309 00:17:16,300 --> 00:17:21,900 been like working with Disney on something for Minnie Mouse 310 00:17:22,099 --> 00:17:24,000 Minnie. She's called now and and 311 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,300 modernizing her. And so I had one that pitch and 312 00:17:27,300 --> 00:17:31,100 then ultimately the dni group. You know, they were like, all, 313 00:17:31,100 --> 00:17:34,400 can you help us make a video about our commitment to 314 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,800 diversity and inclusion? And I knew immediately, it was 315 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,300 going to be more than a video, you know, everybody wanted it to 316 00:17:39,300 --> 00:17:43,400 be more right, you know, and Disney they wanted an outsider 317 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:48,900 perspective to help them develop a creative concept for their 318 00:17:48,900 --> 00:17:52,900 commitment and all the work they had been doing with inside 319 00:17:52,900 --> 00:17:55,100 Disney. You know, that the public wasn't 320 00:17:55,100 --> 00:17:58,600 really aware of ran. And this started over two years 321 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,400 ago before the pan. Endemic before George Floyd, all 322 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,500 of it. And I was like, we need to call 323 00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:08,700 this reimagine tomorrow. I mean, I'm cutting short and 324 00:18:08,700 --> 00:18:12,100 really great, you know, but can we reimagine it tomorrow where 325 00:18:12,100 --> 00:18:15,100 we all belong? Because this is about belonging 326 00:18:15,100 --> 00:18:18,300 and it is of celebration of our shared humanity. 327 00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:22,100 And I really think too often people get stuck in this 328 00:18:22,100 --> 00:18:25,800 divisive way of thinking, this isn't like an Us Versus Them 329 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:30,700 thing at all. It is, we are All greater than a 330 00:18:30,700 --> 00:18:34,400 single story, right? Every single one of us whether 331 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,100 you're white, whether you're black, whether you're 332 00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:44,000 able-bodied or not, or lgbtq, we all contain multitudes, right? 333 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,100 And that's why accurate representation matters. 334 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,900 And so I wanted to help Disney Create something that's 335 00:18:50,900 --> 00:18:56,200 celebrated our shared humanity and help help communicate to the 336 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,900 to the General Public. That diversity. 337 00:19:00,900 --> 00:19:04,600 And I think lusion is is something that benefits all of 338 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:08,000 us, right? Because we all want to be seen 339 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,200 for the complex human beings at we are. 340 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,700 And we just want to feel seen and heard that's all we all want 341 00:19:13,700 --> 00:19:17,600 the same thing, right? And, you know, that the Disney 342 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,700 story really speaks to the richness of stories. 343 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,800 Yeah. That's why they're the perfect 344 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,100 ones to bring this campaign to life because they're the 345 00:19:26,100 --> 00:19:28,600 ultimate storytellers the greatest of all time. 346 00:19:29,300 --> 00:19:32,900 And we think about storytelling and its role in transformative 347 00:19:32,900 --> 00:19:36,600 role in design, that of half that we do as designers in 348 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,200 design, Business Leaders. The concept is really about 349 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,200 bringing those stories to life subtract. 350 00:19:42,700 --> 00:19:45,200 As you talked about the Disney space and are there's a notion, 351 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,300 we talk about these ingredients that go into it. 352 00:19:47,300 --> 00:19:50,800 The storytelling, the authenticity, what I love about 353 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,500 the Disney stories, you also talked about the power of time. 354 00:19:54,300 --> 00:19:56,900 This wasn't a strategy that's just thrown out overnight, 355 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,000 right? This took some time. 356 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:04,200 Mine and some investment to kind of think about this and build it 357 00:20:04,500 --> 00:20:06,800 and get it right? Yes. 358 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,900 And a lot of care. And I also want to say, like no 359 00:20:10,900 --> 00:20:15,500 one's perfect, right? And this isn't perfect, right? 360 00:20:15,500 --> 00:20:19,300 And that's that's what I think we all need to kind of allow, 361 00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:22,000 you know, his kind of cancel culture world. 362 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,700 It's like companies will make mistakes individuals will make 363 00:20:25,700 --> 00:20:28,100 mistakes. But what's most important is 364 00:20:28,100 --> 00:20:32,300 that we try Why right? Is that we try, you know, so 365 00:20:32,300 --> 00:20:36,300 you're absolutely right. It has been a Herculean effort, 366 00:20:36,700 --> 00:20:40,700 you know, and and so many incredible people at Disney. 367 00:20:40,700 --> 00:20:44,300 He, you know, when we say Disney, we met Hulu, not toab 368 00:20:44,300 --> 00:20:48,100 saying eat while Disney animation and so many people on 369 00:20:48,100 --> 00:20:52,200 my team, you know, that have put their heart and soul into this 370 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,500 just because I want to make the world a better place at, you 371 00:20:55,500 --> 00:20:57,600 know, and help bring people together. 372 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,500 It's really about bringing people together. ^ story. 373 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,700 Yeah, and it's incredible to have these conversations when 374 00:21:03,700 --> 00:21:06,300 you're talking about just a diversity of Brands and 375 00:21:06,300 --> 00:21:08,900 conglomerate but also the diversity of skill sets. 376 00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:11,100 That people are bad guys. Yes. 377 00:21:11,100 --> 00:21:13,800 And I love that you said that because one of the things that, 378 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,200 that was really important to me and how I work or my company 379 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,900 works, is we find people everywhere, right? 380 00:21:19,900 --> 00:21:22,400 It's not, it's not. And I actually, I walked people 381 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,000 that don't necessarily come from a, from a Ad Agency world. 382 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,200 Like one of the, one of the writers we work with, I found 383 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,900 him on RAM. This young black man, he's an 384 00:21:31,900 --> 00:21:35,100 educator either teacher and he writes poetry and its rights. 385 00:21:35,100 --> 00:21:40,200 So beautifully and I hired him to help with the concept being 386 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,000 of our main film for reimagine tomorrow, right? 387 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,200 You know, so he got to share his stories about what he has to go 388 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,200 through. You know, what he was telling me 389 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:55,600 about how he puts a bike rack on his car so that he's less likely 390 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,500 to get pulled over. And I started crying when I 391 00:21:59,500 --> 00:22:02,400 heard that story because I, of course, have my own stories from 392 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,700 my brother, or thank you, Don for you, have your own that you 393 00:22:04,700 --> 00:22:08,600 do, right? So, the opening scene of our 394 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,700 Anthem film is a young black boy saying, what if the world could 395 00:22:12,700 --> 00:22:17,500 see me the way I see me? And that's, that's what this is 396 00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:19,900 about. We all just want to be seen for 397 00:22:19,900 --> 00:22:23,900 who we are. And then this very come from 398 00:22:23,900 --> 00:22:27,200 that history, becomes a net. So it creates that space that 399 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,000 that opens us up. And, you know, in addition to 400 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,500 the hunger, you've always been bold. 401 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:34,900 So, you know, talk about talk a bit about that. 402 00:22:34,900 --> 00:22:37,300 How is this, a Columbia, New York, vague? 403 00:22:37,300 --> 00:22:39,900 Or is this, how is this a nice metal? 404 00:22:39,900 --> 00:22:41,900 I know. And it's, it's interesting 405 00:22:41,900 --> 00:22:43,600 because it's like, you know, everyone though. 406 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,400 The all you seem so confident Isn't this that I mean I guess 407 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:51,300 but like inside you know it I'm actually kind of shy and it's 408 00:22:51,300 --> 00:22:55,800 very hard even coming on to a podcast like this and and the 409 00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:00,400 reason you know that I do it it is is for the call has right. 410 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,000 You know what I mean? It's like what I'm trying to 411 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,500 bring into the world is bigger than me. 412 00:23:03,500 --> 00:23:07,500 And also have to like, get over read over my own fears but it's 413 00:23:07,500 --> 00:23:11,100 really, it is really hard. But yes, I'm, I'm bold, I like 414 00:23:11,100 --> 00:23:14,700 to say, I never fit in so I decided to stand out at some 415 00:23:14,700 --> 00:23:17,800 point. Just had to like and erase it, 416 00:23:17,900 --> 00:23:19,400 accepting of where you are, you know. 417 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,600 Yeah, it's interesting but having this conversation, I've 418 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,700 always kind of distinguish in my own world and with our teens and 419 00:23:24,700 --> 00:23:27,700 conversations, the distinction between being bold and 420 00:23:27,700 --> 00:23:31,800 confident. Yeah, right being bold is often 421 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,500 in spite of all the things. It's, I don't know what's 422 00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:36,500 happened. I'm terrified. 423 00:23:36,500 --> 00:23:39,300 I'm going to try. It's all of those things that 424 00:23:39,300 --> 00:23:41,500 you still Step Up In Spite of right. 425 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,100 Is there some confidence that comes from it? 426 00:23:43,100 --> 00:23:45,300 Yes. But sometimes your bold, First, 427 00:23:45,300 --> 00:23:47,800 in the confidence follows. Exactly. 428 00:23:48,100 --> 00:23:51,500 Exactly. And sometimes you're like, if I 429 00:23:51,508 --> 00:23:55,400 don't do this, I'm just gonna be upset with myself, you know. 430 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,400 Like there's that part of you, that knows what you have to do. 431 00:23:58,700 --> 00:24:02,100 Exactly, you know, and that you've been given whatever 432 00:24:02,100 --> 00:24:05,700 unique set of experiences, you've been given, you know what 433 00:24:05,700 --> 00:24:08,100 I mean? So, like, again, I have a white 434 00:24:08,100 --> 00:24:10,000 mother. I had a Jamaican dad. 435 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,300 I grew up on the Upper East Side of New York. 436 00:24:13,300 --> 00:24:16,800 So I've always been in these Different kinds of environments 437 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,500 and had to navigate all sorts of kind, you know, kinds of people 438 00:24:21,700 --> 00:24:26,600 so I can I can bring them together in a unique way, did 439 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,900 you, did you ever imagine that? This would be your story your 440 00:24:29,900 --> 00:24:32,700 life when you were growing up in New York? 441 00:24:32,700 --> 00:24:35,900 Did she think that that you'd have a space in Creative 442 00:24:35,900 --> 00:24:38,600 storytelling and strategy and, and making it? 443 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,200 Well, I mean, I wanted to be a writer or like a diplomat. 444 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,000 So I knew I would be dealing with people. 445 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,900 Ryan can't even Education in some way, you know, but I didn't 446 00:24:47,900 --> 00:24:53,300 realize this, you know, and that like, I mean, it is such a dream 447 00:24:53,300 --> 00:24:55,900 really? That act, like, I got to even 448 00:24:55,900 --> 00:25:00,500 just plant a seed of, can we create a tomorrow where 449 00:25:00,500 --> 00:25:04,200 everyone's welcome wrist that alone, you know, and I'm so 450 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,000 grateful for Disney for bringing us into that, you know, at and I 451 00:25:08,008 --> 00:25:10,700 will say, it's like the little things, it's not even the 452 00:25:10,700 --> 00:25:13,600 content at all of that, that, that we've put out, but it's, 453 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,700 what's happened along the way. Right like Benny we have 88 454 00:25:17,700 --> 00:25:24,400 percent diversity on our crew. Like what 88% and you know, the 455 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,200 moms like multiple mom's of some of the like young actors that we 456 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,700 had. They came up to me and they're 457 00:25:30,700 --> 00:25:34,600 like I've never my kid has never been on a set like this and you 458 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,500 know they had tears in their eyes. 459 00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:41,300 Say like this means so much for my son to see this and to be 460 00:25:41,300 --> 00:25:46,700 treated this way, or my daughter to see Unlike you running a 461 00:25:46,708 --> 00:25:51,500 production right? You know is that this is its 462 00:25:51,500 --> 00:25:54,900 representation in tangible action, right? 463 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,900 So it's not just representation for tokenism space in there. 464 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,000 No it's representation in where their willpower is in people 465 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,000 doing the things that they do attack seeing the gifts that 466 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,000 they have, the training that they built up the rigor they 467 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,300 apply, and the Beautiful creativeness that they bring to 468 00:26:12,300 --> 00:26:13,800 it. Right in that, knocked lie? 469 00:26:13,900 --> 00:26:17,700 Yes. Seen that And it's the power of, 470 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,200 as you said, kind of the larger companies have ability to bring 471 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,100 this gravity, right? Yeah. 472 00:26:23,500 --> 00:26:26,400 But I don't want to let our smaller companies off the hook 473 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,200 and these conversation as well. What are some of the things that 474 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,500 you've been able to inspire smaller companies to think about 475 00:26:33,500 --> 00:26:36,600 their world, a resource and their impact in more Dynamic 476 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,300 ways? Yeah, that's a great. 477 00:26:38,500 --> 00:26:42,400 That's a great question. So one of the things I did when 478 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,800 I first moved to Cincinnati is work, On a Congressional 479 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,200 Campaign, okay? For Kate, Schroeder was one of 480 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,500 the biggest Congressional campaigns in the country in a 481 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:57,400 big Democratic race and the incumbent he'd been he's held 482 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,300 the seat since the 90s. Zoe no knocking man, there's 483 00:27:00,300 --> 00:27:02,500 gerrymandering at play. There's a lot of things at play 484 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:08,300 but you know, I was like, we need to, we need to engage the 485 00:27:08,300 --> 00:27:13,000 black community in Cincinnati at the 50%, black City, and in the 486 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,500 district, as well. You know, so I challenged her to 487 00:27:17,500 --> 00:27:20,400 really think about and she of course, already knew this but 488 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:21,900 you know, what are the different ways? 489 00:27:21,900 --> 00:27:26,800 We can really communicate messaging wise in a way that 490 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:32,000 will resonate with with both black audiences and non black 491 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,500 audiences, right? That will make black people in 492 00:27:34,500 --> 00:27:37,700 Cincinnati feel heard because the issue is, they feel like, 493 00:27:37,708 --> 00:27:39,500 well, no one's talking to me. No one cares. 494 00:27:39,500 --> 00:27:41,200 So I'm not even going to come out and vote for a congressional 495 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,500 election, you know what I mean? So then it's weaving and 496 00:27:44,900 --> 00:27:49,100 Language, right? That speaks directly to the 497 00:27:49,100 --> 00:27:51,200 Cincinnati black community, you know? 498 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,900 So it was pushing things like that, so that's it, you know, a 499 00:27:54,900 --> 00:27:58,600 small company, example. I mean, there's like little 500 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:03,200 things, like, just making sure that their tea Humes our 501 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,100 directors, right? And again, I just want to keep 502 00:28:06,100 --> 00:28:09,700 repeating this, it's not just diversity of race, it's 503 00:28:09,700 --> 00:28:14,200 perspective, its ability. It's all of that because, like, 504 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:19,300 we all have to Ourselves on is straight so I can see, right? 505 00:28:19,300 --> 00:28:23,300 So one of the things I I don't think about are all the, all the 506 00:28:23,300 --> 00:28:27,500 things that non-seeing people need to think about, right? 507 00:28:27,500 --> 00:28:30,900 So I need to have people over here, reminding me of all those 508 00:28:30,900 --> 00:28:35,000 accessibility things, right? So anyway, like the more I just 509 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,800 I like to emphasize that with companies big and small. 510 00:28:39,300 --> 00:28:43,700 I just have different types of people around you right now and 511 00:28:43,700 --> 00:28:46,200 it's like shoe and it's a An active state, right? 512 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:50,100 It's not as Catalyst where we've now box and now we're done. 513 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,200 It's a neck were always, you know, we're always getting 514 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,700 better were always seeking more inputs in your nana asset. 515 00:28:56,900 --> 00:28:59,700 You, we have to have a space in which we have no fear to mess up 516 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,100 because we get, we get slow. I'll mess up. 517 00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:04,000 We will all mess up. I'm sure I've said it. 518 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,100 A million things already on this podcast that are not 100% 519 00:29:07,100 --> 00:29:10,200 correct, right? He felt that if he let you know 520 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,200 what I love. I love you speak about this. 521 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,800 Again with the humility of. We will mess up. 522 00:29:15,100 --> 00:29:18,500 With in with that comes wisdom, right? 523 00:29:18,500 --> 00:29:21,900 That's how we gain that and more poorly our conversation of 524 00:29:21,908 --> 00:29:25,300 strategy when it ties together in its wisdom with positive 525 00:29:25,300 --> 00:29:28,500 intent, right? I think, I think that positive 526 00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:34,200 intent helps drive so much of what we do today and how we have 527 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,000 impact for tomorrow exact. So a lot of your work week, 528 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,200 we're talking about kind of building and rebuilding and 529 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,400 it's, it's always future forward, whether we say the word 530 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,800 future is always thinking about what comes next. 531 00:29:44,900 --> 00:29:48,300 Next. Hey ugly, as a dynamic agency 532 00:29:48,300 --> 00:29:51,400 owner. What advice do you have to our 533 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,300 listeners? Those who are designers or 534 00:29:53,300 --> 00:29:57,100 craves of business, folks, about building a dynamic future. 535 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:02,400 I think you need to put people first even and I know that's not 536 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,400 profound or new But it's a Madman. 537 00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:09,100 Yeah, you have to think about people and then, and you have to 538 00:30:09,100 --> 00:30:12,100 push yourself. Like I don't see enough 539 00:30:12,100 --> 00:30:17,900 designers pushing their own beliefs, push your own beliefs. 540 00:30:18,300 --> 00:30:21,200 Like I just did a Rebrand for neon butterfly time. 541 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:22,900 Slowly. Rolling out right front. 542 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,100 The designer that was working on it. 543 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,900 She, I'd reached pushed. And so the fault that were using 544 00:30:29,900 --> 00:30:33,000 for my logo. Now his a font actually called 545 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,700 Marsha P Johnson. Marsha P Johnson, right? 546 00:30:35,700 --> 00:30:41,300 The activist at Stonewall oh, I think does not get credited G 547 00:30:41,300 --> 00:30:43,500 woman. Who's dragging key, right? 548 00:30:44,100 --> 00:30:49,300 So the designer who I pushed and she's a white woman, she went 549 00:30:49,300 --> 00:30:53,900 and found this young black man. He's a type designer Who 550 00:30:53,900 --> 00:30:58,000 develops fonts based on activists. 551 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:04,800 Wow right so even within our font there is a story there's a 552 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:09,500 story with yeah but as it yes and it matters it's a story that 553 00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:13,700 matters to to space and we're you are you know what my company 554 00:31:13,700 --> 00:31:17,000 stands for. So as a designer I say whatever 555 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:21,500 project you're working on think about who you're talking to and 556 00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:26,100 what matters to them and then push yourself and if you don't 557 00:31:26,100 --> 00:31:30,600 know that audience go spend time, Time with them go, frying 558 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,700 them, I want to just take a moment in, thank you for Jess, 559 00:31:34,700 --> 00:31:37,900 your candor and sharing the story because you just described 560 00:31:37,900 --> 00:31:41,900 one of the hardest things to do which is having to do brand 561 00:31:41,900 --> 00:31:45,800 strategy for yourself, right? We're going to space. 562 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,100 We're helping everyone else and we have the training and the 563 00:31:48,100 --> 00:31:51,500 skills, but it's amazing how that all goes away. 564 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:56,100 When you have the Herculean personal task of, how do you 565 00:31:56,100 --> 00:31:59,300 express the brand of the company to build out and Love you kind 566 00:31:59,300 --> 00:32:02,500 of going into that process and talking about the challenging, 567 00:32:02,500 --> 00:32:04,300 right? Because pushing yourself out for 568 00:32:04,300 --> 00:32:08,100 one, have had to do that and you find yourself at a loss. 569 00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:11,700 Clients, friends colleagues school work. 570 00:32:11,700 --> 00:32:15,000 You're on it. Exactly and brand yourself. 571 00:32:15,300 --> 00:32:17,700 Exactly, right? And and you know, and it's 572 00:32:17,700 --> 00:32:19,100 figuring out. What is most important to you? 573 00:32:19,108 --> 00:32:21,400 What do you stand for a minute? Goes back to write. 574 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:26,200 Like, what is your why? And my Y is narrative change, 575 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:27,800 right? You know, I'm trying to use 576 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,600 media and Occation to enact narrative change. 577 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,800 So the narrative change has to be embedded in all my design of 578 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,200 elements in some rare. Acity, it pay. 579 00:32:38,300 --> 00:32:41,600 Well, I love the fact that you brought in Partners rights and 580 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,500 we're out of bread. You brought in partners, and you 581 00:32:44,500 --> 00:32:47,200 get this reflective surface that you have where they're at. 582 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,500 Telling you about how your brand is, showing up in the world. 583 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,900 I always find that powerful. It's one thing for us to know 584 00:32:52,900 --> 00:32:56,100 that we are future forward. It's another thing for those 585 00:32:56,100 --> 00:32:58,600 around us to say, they see the future reflected in US. 586 00:32:58,700 --> 00:33:01,400 Yes, yeah, exactly. Exactly. 587 00:33:01,700 --> 00:33:03,000 Yeah. They had different people touch 588 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:07,200 it to like a designer here, right? 589 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,600 Who is in a certain type of body from Cincinnati, certain set of 590 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,300 experiences, then I have another person in a different body in 591 00:33:15,300 --> 00:33:18,400 San Francisco. Did another part of it, they 592 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,300 work together, iterating on it, okay, you know, so have 593 00:33:22,300 --> 00:33:28,600 different perspectives. Even in my own work but all come 594 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,800 culminating around a singular Vision, right? 595 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,700 I love earlier. When you mentioned that you find 596 00:33:35,700 --> 00:33:39,100 through rigor, their equals freedom, and we're talking a bit 597 00:33:39,100 --> 00:33:42,300 about space and place, and so it's not lost on me that you're 598 00:33:42,300 --> 00:33:44,300 coming from. You're having this conversation 599 00:33:44,300 --> 00:33:45,900 with you. Now, in Cincinnati and 600 00:33:45,900 --> 00:33:48,700 Cincinnati is an important kind of pivotal point. 601 00:33:48,700 --> 00:33:53,700 We talked about Transitions and collaboration and strategy as 602 00:33:53,700 --> 00:33:55,800 one of the soon. T'rul spaces of the Underground 603 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,500 Railroad. You're going to think about kind 604 00:33:58,500 --> 00:34:03,300 of strategy as working together towards Dynamic goals it and the 605 00:34:03,308 --> 00:34:05,000 power of your, your space and me. 606 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,300 I love how with working with your brand, you're getting 607 00:34:08,300 --> 00:34:10,600 creative voices, from multiple locations that are informed, by 608 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:16,199 those experiences. And right, we are on one side of 609 00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:18,800 freedom. I mean, literally, over the Ohio 610 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,300 river. Right? 611 00:34:20,699 --> 00:34:23,000 Leaves crossed it and they were free. 612 00:34:24,100 --> 00:34:27,699 Yeah, I mean, so there there that energy here of this, like, 613 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,500 coming from bondage to Freedom. My brother talks about this all 614 00:34:31,500 --> 00:34:34,000 the time because he's also here, you know what I mean, right? 615 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,800 Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up and 616 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,600 it can it continues at the notion of family, right? 617 00:34:38,699 --> 00:34:40,699 Yeah. Holly Bill, family, and both 618 00:34:40,699 --> 00:34:43,100 blood but awesome and experience in bond. 619 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,800 Yes, and and can we continue to extend who we consider our 620 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:53,800 family and we consider more and more people are family and and 621 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:55,500 that is what my work is trying to do. 622 00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:59,100 Honestly. So that these difference is, you 623 00:34:59,100 --> 00:35:02,600 know, that like skin color and all these other things, the 624 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,900 surface differences, don't don't prevent us from finding family 625 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:12,000 and inspiration. If you had one piece of advice 626 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,700 for Creative, starting a new business, we we did a bit of 627 00:35:15,700 --> 00:35:18,000 research this past year of our design POV. 628 00:35:18,300 --> 00:35:21,500 And one of the big takeaways was the fact that we saw that 629 00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:24,200 statistically. Speaking all designers will 630 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,500 become their own businesses, right? 631 00:35:26,500 --> 00:35:28,900 Kind of a change at some point in a career often 632 00:35:28,900 --> 00:35:30,900 simultaneously. Like you mentioned before 633 00:35:31,700 --> 00:35:35,200 because of the skill, they created Acumen, you have an 634 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,200 opportunity in agency to create your own work. 635 00:35:38,300 --> 00:35:40,500 So what advice would you have Have because you've done it, 636 00:35:40,500 --> 00:35:42,600 you've done it, both you've been it part time. 637 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:47,000 You've been side hustle. You've been main domain enter a 638 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,300 Criterion space. What advice would you have? 639 00:35:49,500 --> 00:35:53,800 I would say for designers to find yourself a good strategist 640 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,000 because what I have heard, the feedback I've heard from, a lot 641 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,400 of the designers that I hire is that they are so happy to work 642 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:06,600 with me and with us, right? Because we do all the rigor we 643 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,200 start with that business objective, right? 644 00:36:09,700 --> 00:36:13,200 We start with the target, we start with the positioning, so 645 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,500 then by the time, the designer does their creative work. 646 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:22,500 The client is almost 100% of the time, going to buy the work 647 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,200 right heads, they bought off on a strategy. 648 00:36:25,700 --> 00:36:29,900 So I've had designer say, oh my God, this is been so easy and 649 00:36:29,900 --> 00:36:34,500 nice and painless, right? Because what happens, a lot of 650 00:36:34,500 --> 00:36:37,800 the time when designers go off on their own, is it that may 651 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,900 just become this like this thing where they're just executing, 652 00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:44,800 right? What clients asked for? 653 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,700 And then they're using creative work to determine strategy which 654 00:36:49,700 --> 00:36:51,800 we all know that leads to burnout. 655 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:52,500 Right. Right. 656 00:36:52,508 --> 00:36:55,800 So then they're working over here hours and hours and they 657 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:57,200 give the client the mimic. I think. 658 00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,300 No, that's not really what I wanted, right? 659 00:36:59,300 --> 00:37:02,400 And half the time it's because they're not aligned on the 660 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,400 Strategic Vision. Or What? 661 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:05,600 What? In fact, they're trying to 662 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:07,200 achieve. Right. 663 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,300 Right. And it's also to your point is 664 00:37:10,300 --> 00:37:12,800 that understanding that gets missed, right? 665 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:13,300 Yeah. Terrific. 666 00:37:13,300 --> 00:37:15,500 Communication Breakdown. Yeah, process. 667 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,000 We all hear things differently, we all see things differently 668 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,900 while since things differently and strategy becomes at 669 00:37:21,900 --> 00:37:25,500 alignment, they have throughput and so that we can make sure 670 00:37:25,500 --> 00:37:29,300 we're each taking away. I know those important features 671 00:37:29,300 --> 00:37:32,000 that into it yet, there's to your point, there's nothing more 672 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,900 frustrating than doing incredibly creative work. 673 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:39,300 That doesn't work for you, the client or your goal, right? 674 00:37:39,500 --> 00:37:41,200 Exactly. So I would say, pair yourself 675 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:46,100 with a strategist. I would also say Try to work at 676 00:37:46,100 --> 00:37:49,200 a reputable bigger Agency for a little while. 677 00:37:49,300 --> 00:37:54,500 I definitely say that because it gives you a certain a rigor and 678 00:37:54,500 --> 00:37:59,800 a certain like a certain like experience with running 679 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,600 different kinds of Productions. Coming up with different gleich 680 00:38:03,700 --> 00:38:07,900 challenges that arise you know, hand bumping up against other 681 00:38:07,900 --> 00:38:11,800 creative people, right? You know, so I don't advise just 682 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,100 oh, I come out of school and like I start my own bang, like I 683 00:38:15,100 --> 00:38:19,300 really Sure, it can work. But is it going to make you the 684 00:38:19,300 --> 00:38:21,800 best designer? No, I don't think so. 685 00:38:22,300 --> 00:38:24,500 Well it's interesting. We talked about kind of that 686 00:38:24,500 --> 00:38:27,600 intentionality, right? So seeking the skill sets that 687 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,500 you can get our members early in our career. 688 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,200 You know, I always had limited budgets because the places I 689 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,300 work with had limited budgets sigh envelop. 690 00:38:34,300 --> 00:38:37,800 That really good skill exactly. But but working with a larger 691 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:38,700 budget, was it? Something? 692 00:38:38,700 --> 00:38:40,800 At the time I was experiencing right. 693 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,100 I have a seeking out the ways to kind of add to your tool. 694 00:38:44,100 --> 00:38:45,900 Kit is only going to make you strong. 695 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,500 Er, down the line to your point. Exactly. 696 00:38:48,500 --> 00:38:51,800 Exactly. And if you're younger, just try 697 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,900 a bunch of different places. Yeah. 698 00:38:53,900 --> 00:38:57,300 You know, and experiences to see what you like. 699 00:38:57,700 --> 00:39:00,900 So, one of the things that's a takeaway for today's world is 700 00:39:00,900 --> 00:39:04,900 how, you know, more comfortable Brands and organizations are 701 00:39:04,900 --> 00:39:08,800 mashing up, scale and size. So the larger organizations 702 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:10,900 being able to work with smaller groups. 703 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,400 Yeah. And vice versa, there's not a, 704 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,100 there's not a gap that we Face the years ago where there's a A 705 00:39:16,100 --> 00:39:18,300 bigger block. If you are an agency of a 706 00:39:18,300 --> 00:39:21,900 certain size, you couldn't have a conversation table, right? 707 00:39:21,900 --> 00:39:24,000 That with that, going away and democratizing. 708 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,400 How do we make them? How do you make the most of your 709 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,100 shot? You coming of a new client who's 710 00:39:30,100 --> 00:39:31,600 seen some of the great work you've done. 711 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,400 But they're kind of new to the neon butterfly approach. 712 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:36,900 How do you make the most of that engagement? 713 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:42,600 I really step into their shoes. I think about what is that the 714 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:47,000 biggest challenge to them gray. So again this goes back to what 715 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,100 I was saying, right about, think about the people. 716 00:39:49,900 --> 00:39:54,200 So the people in that instance is the company that I'm pitching 717 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,100 to, right? So what is it? 718 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,000 That they really need salt and it might not be articulated 719 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,600 properly on the horror of p. In fact, a very often, isn't it 720 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:05,900 really isn't, right? Yeah. 721 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:10,500 Usually is not it. It it, it can get the RFP, 722 00:40:10,500 --> 00:40:14,500 always relies a fact that the client or the organization 723 00:40:14,500 --> 00:40:16,600 knows, it absolutely what they need. 724 00:40:16,900 --> 00:40:20,700 And the reality is, if we did we wouldn't be asking you, right? 725 00:40:20,700 --> 00:40:24,700 And this is that opportunity where I think we layer in our 726 00:40:24,700 --> 00:40:27,300 insights and space, right? I remember having a professor 727 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,200 Columbia. That always said that that 728 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,200 Insight is a knowledge that you receive that when you hear it, 729 00:40:32,300 --> 00:40:35,000 it feels like it, was there all along and we've all had those 730 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,300 moments where you the data and the research supported and you 731 00:40:38,300 --> 00:40:41,000 come in and go. Oh, yeah, that is right. 732 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,400 It gives you a new way of seeing that makes it perfectly in line 733 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,200 with what it should be. Exactly exactly. 734 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:51,400 And I think the best designers are the most insightful and the 735 00:40:51,408 --> 00:40:55,900 most curious and the most interested in people that they 736 00:40:55,900 --> 00:40:58,600 are. So if you Had a pitch and you 737 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,400 had to bring in for skill sets of personalities. 738 00:41:02,900 --> 00:41:05,100 Who would you put together as your for for your team? 739 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:11,300 Someone that can think really big conceptually rice? 740 00:41:13,700 --> 00:41:18,100 Then I would bring in a really strong writer. 741 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,200 Well, let me step back. Everyone would have to think 742 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,600 conceptually on my team and I like have these exercises I make 743 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,500 people do. So everyone has to be able to 744 00:41:25,500 --> 00:41:28,900 think conceptually Because there's a lot of designers it 745 00:41:28,900 --> 00:41:31,600 can make things look pretty but they can't think conceptually 746 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,100 and that doesn't really work for how I run my company gray. 747 00:41:35,500 --> 00:41:39,200 So an art director and a writer that can think. 748 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:43,200 Conceptually they can think really, really big and who 749 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:48,100 appreciate and enjoy solving business challenges that they 750 00:41:48,100 --> 00:41:51,400 actually enjoy it. So they have a bit of strategic 751 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:57,600 mindedness themselves, right? So our director With a design 752 00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,200 background but who has done creative Direction. 753 00:42:00,500 --> 00:42:04,400 But who isn't so removed that they've just been, like, bossing 754 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,100 people around for the past 10 years, okay? 755 00:42:07,100 --> 00:42:09,600 You're attending it. Yes, I mean gets in there and 756 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:14,000 who can you knows who's not above like, pushing pixels and 757 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:18,600 stuff still, and add a writer who really has like that and 758 00:42:19,500 --> 00:42:25,100 understanding of people, and it's like a poetic writer that a 759 00:42:25,100 --> 00:42:29,300 thick for me and And then a super, super, super strong 760 00:42:29,300 --> 00:42:32,900 account person, which I all, I also am, but I always eat 761 00:42:32,900 --> 00:42:35,400 another one, right? And that's all about 762 00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:39,600 relationships, relationships and detail right detail and 763 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,000 organization. I guess, one of the things that 764 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:46,000 we are always told we are like we Ila. 765 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,300 I mean, we catch almost everything, it's like scary. 766 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,000 Uh-huh. You know, and I was from my 767 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,500 training right now, my work with my first boss. 768 00:42:54,500 --> 00:42:56,100 Now actually, she's works with me. 769 00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:00,300 Oh well, because I've, I barely trust anybody. 770 00:43:00,300 --> 00:43:03,300 So, like I'm only going to trust the person that trained me to be 771 00:43:03,300 --> 00:43:05,700 on the details. You know, this is Beth. 772 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:08,400 It is. It's amazing. 773 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,900 Like, how much those moments stick out in your your career? 774 00:43:12,100 --> 00:43:14,900 Yeah, I remember having a general counsel who was a 775 00:43:14,908 --> 00:43:19,400 stickler for trademark incorporation and copyright in 776 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,300 it and even the stickler for it and I would have my teams and we 777 00:43:22,300 --> 00:43:25,500 would do incredible work and I remember him coming and bringing 778 00:43:25,500 --> 00:43:27,000 a magazine. To me and saying this is 779 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,500 brilliant. This might be one of the best 780 00:43:29,500 --> 00:43:31,700 ads I've seen for our organization and we were Global 781 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,300 and he looked down, he opened it up and he pointed to the bottom 782 00:43:34,300 --> 00:43:36,600 and he said, yeah. But without any with proper 783 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,400 trademark activation you just gave away our our intellectual 784 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,400 property to the world. I remember having these moments 785 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,500 of it became the space on the. He'll skip ahead for me, 20 786 00:43:45,500 --> 00:43:47,800 years from now. I'm always in the middle of all 787 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,100 the things that do. I do this kind of intellectual 788 00:43:50,100 --> 00:43:52,300 property, checkpoint all the time. 789 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,100 And people got like, why like why? 790 00:43:56,100 --> 00:43:58,700 But if such a it was a pain in the moment but such a 791 00:43:58,708 --> 00:44:02,100 transformative kind of experience of this is the type 792 00:44:02,100 --> 00:44:05,300 of work you do the rigor, it's huge. 793 00:44:05,300 --> 00:44:07,400 And that's what you get from a PNG. 794 00:44:07,700 --> 00:44:11,200 That's what you get, because it's from that work that I'm 795 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:15,300 able to, then understand all of the, like, maneuvering through, 796 00:44:15,300 --> 00:44:18,300 you know, dizzy legal, right? And how to do it, and what to 797 00:44:18,300 --> 00:44:22,500 look for and that even something as small as a sound effect 798 00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:27,000 mother Licensed, right? And it's interesting to then be 799 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:32,200 a small agency, but deal with these global concerns which is 800 00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,800 when you're working with a partner like a Disney, they do 801 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:39,400 have global concerns, right? And this is, how does this work 802 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,700 in different markets? How does this work in various 803 00:44:41,700 --> 00:44:44,200 rules? What is our core space? 804 00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,200 And I think that that's to your point of rigor, that's important 805 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:51,400 lesson for our smaller agencies and designers of work to do, you 806 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:54,400 know, you don't let the size of your This dictate the impact and 807 00:44:54,408 --> 00:44:59,200 quality of your work and don't get, don't get like, don't get 808 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:03,100 cocky, you know, because if you want to take on these big 809 00:45:03,100 --> 00:45:08,500 projects like the non sexy stuff, like legal like 810 00:45:08,500 --> 00:45:13,300 licensing, let all those things that's of makes or breaks a 811 00:45:13,308 --> 00:45:15,300 project. It really does. 812 00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,500 Yes. And if you cannot like, if you 813 00:45:17,500 --> 00:45:20,700 don't understand contracts, if you don't understand all the 814 00:45:20,700 --> 00:45:23,300 processes that have to be gone through, and When? 815 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:30,200 I mean, she is over, it's over and, and you don't want to be 816 00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:36,200 the vendor, the partner that cost your partner more than the 817 00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:40,300 actual campaign execution. Exactly, to defend and deliver, 818 00:45:40,300 --> 00:45:41,000 right? Right. 819 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,300 And not only that, but they could just take it away from you 820 00:45:43,300 --> 00:45:47,500 mid-project because they're like, oh, they can't handle it. 821 00:45:47,500 --> 00:45:49,500 And, and that is a thing with his male agency. 822 00:45:49,500 --> 00:45:51,200 Like, you do have to prove yourself, right? 823 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:55,900 Because they are wondering, are they up to Two tasks, you know. 824 00:45:56,100 --> 00:45:59,000 And that is something we need to, you know, always kind of be 825 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,100 showing like we're up to task. And here is our experience. 826 00:46:02,100 --> 00:46:03,700 Here's the work. We've done procure. 827 00:46:03,700 --> 00:46:06,000 The clients that we've had, you know. 828 00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,800 So so you need to be ready. She could. 829 00:46:10,100 --> 00:46:13,500 So is, is, as we get ready and kind of turn a quarter in a new 830 00:46:13,500 --> 00:46:15,700 year. What do you most excited about? 831 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,700 I'm excited about like what the next thing is it can like 832 00:46:19,700 --> 00:46:25,300 impacts people, right? You can and you know a real way 833 00:46:25,300 --> 00:46:30,800 like for instance like you know the environment like I'm like, 834 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:35,300 how can I how can I use my skills with communication to 835 00:46:35,300 --> 00:46:39,500 really like, you know, put some communication out there whether 836 00:46:39,500 --> 00:46:44,400 it's lobbying or something that like really, really makes a 837 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:46,700 difference with like environmental policy It's just 838 00:46:46,700 --> 00:46:48,800 like on and in my mind, you know, yeah. 839 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:50,800 Yeah. That's that's what this is the 840 00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:52,800 podcast for that funds face of what. 841 00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:53,500 Yeah. Like. 842 00:46:53,500 --> 00:46:53,900 Right. Right. 843 00:46:53,900 --> 00:46:55,000 That that's what we're looking at. 844 00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:56,800 What? Yeah, because it's like, yes, 845 00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,300 the little individual things are going to make a difference 846 00:46:59,300 --> 00:47:01,200 environmental wise but it's policy. 847 00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:04,400 Its massive sweeping policy, right? 848 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,100 And how do we convince enough people? 849 00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:12,100 That that Then voting for these policy changes. 850 00:47:13,100 --> 00:47:16,100 Matters right back to me. It's the same thing at the 851 00:47:16,108 --> 00:47:18,800 marketing challenge, right? In my mind. 852 00:47:19,100 --> 00:47:21,100 So everything for me is a marketing challenge, you know? 853 00:47:21,300 --> 00:47:23,300 It's the same thing with labor, right? 854 00:47:23,300 --> 00:47:25,600 An organized labor. Am I most people don't 855 00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,000 understand what unions are, right? 856 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,500 He don't understand that unions are like actually in their best 857 00:47:30,500 --> 00:47:33,000 interest, right? Yeah, I mean to that's a whole 858 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:37,200 other campaigns I'm interested in like in using marketing and 859 00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:40,900 communication, to to really move some of these big challenges 860 00:47:40,900 --> 00:47:43,700 forward, you know, I'm not Not interested in getting 861 00:47:43,700 --> 00:47:47,400 pigeon-holed in like, dni space. Like, I've spent my whole career 862 00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:52,300 not being like Multicultural agency or any of that stuff, 863 00:47:52,300 --> 00:47:56,600 because then you're just like, in some Corner bike, you know 864 00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:58,900 how it is. Yeah, you're in corner with 865 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:02,900 where you get work, that gets perceived as less substantial, 866 00:48:03,700 --> 00:48:07,500 less creative, and less Dynamic and Ike this muta loses out of 867 00:48:07,500 --> 00:48:11,200 it. No one should have their talent 868 00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:12,800 and resources skill Limited in that way. 869 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,500 Yeah, and I also think it's an absurd concept because the 870 00:48:16,500 --> 00:48:20,400 entire world is Multicultural. So, like this whole thing of 871 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,800 like General market, that's it a ridiculous concept or so General 872 00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:26,600 market. Like yeah. 873 00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:30,900 I mean, especially now with like how many Niche groups have been 874 00:48:30,900 --> 00:48:35,100 created because of social media. You can't think like that 875 00:48:35,100 --> 00:48:37,100 anymore. You know and everybody's 876 00:48:37,100 --> 00:48:40,800 influenced by by the niche that they're in and that transcends 877 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:42,600 race and gender and of can crusher. 878 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,900 There are track, you know, intersections. 879 00:48:44,900 --> 00:48:48,100 But you can't think like that like oh, all black people think 880 00:48:48,100 --> 00:48:50,200 this way and all Asian people think that way. 881 00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,500 It's not like that. No, that's definitely not energy 882 00:48:53,500 --> 00:48:57,400 said, those are all kind of dated early advertising concept 883 00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:02,000 that analog single Town. Yeah, it's still happening Heats 884 00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:04,000 and that's, that's the beauty of Our Moment. 885 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:05,900 Now, to be able to challenge those face. 886 00:49:05,900 --> 00:49:09,100 And as you're doing with work to making a difference, that's 887 00:49:09,700 --> 00:49:12,700 that's changing outcomes for organizations. 888 00:49:12,900 --> 00:49:16,200 It's for issues, that matter for people after companies a 889 00:49:16,208 --> 00:49:20,100 gradually and and and you're doing it with such kind of 890 00:49:20,108 --> 00:49:23,500 commitment and authenticity and flare. 891 00:49:23,500 --> 00:49:26,900 I'm just, I'm delighted that we got a chance to spend some time 892 00:49:26,900 --> 00:49:30,500 together to talk about this journey from New York to 893 00:49:30,500 --> 00:49:32,500 Cincinnati and everywhere in between. 894 00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:38,400 Yes, and we get a chance to talk about Humanity, intention and a 895 00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:43,300 power of 20 years. I know our listeners will 896 00:49:43,300 --> 00:49:46,700 appreciate her saying there that, you know, your Brilliance 897 00:49:46,700 --> 00:49:50,400 and wisdom and just tenacity over the 20 years, really, 898 00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:52,600 reflects in the work. And I'm excited to see what 899 00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,000 comes next. We're going to be watching 900 00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,100 closely with the Disney campaign and digging in, as you move 901 00:49:57,100 --> 00:49:59,400 forward. But I think I leave you with 902 00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:03,700 this, with just saying in my translation of your brand, bold 903 00:50:03,700 --> 00:50:07,300 bright, and transformative, and that's what Abby and neon 904 00:50:07,300 --> 00:50:10,600 butterfly are to me. Thank you for joining us. 905 00:50:10,900 --> 00:50:15,000 Thank you all for joining us for this episode of design adjacent. 906 00:50:15,500 --> 00:50:17,900 Join us next time. Thank you. 907 00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,000 Thanks for joining us for this episode of design, adjacent a 908 00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,900 podcast about the Nexus of design today. 909 00:50:24,900 --> 00:50:28,200 And tomorrow, show notes for this episode will be available 910 00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:32,000 on AIG a.org. Please subscribe to our show on 911 00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:36,400 anchor Apple, podcasts, Google play Spotify or wherever you get 912 00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:40,600 your podcasts aiga is designed adjacent podcasts and its 913 00:50:40,900 --> 00:50:44,500 Contents of the copyright of aiga the professional 914 00:50:44,500 --> 00:50:48,300 association for design All Rights Reserved, any 915 00:50:48,300 --> 00:50:52,000 redistribution or reproduction of part or all of the contents 916 00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,700 in any form is prohibited without aig's Express written 917 00:50:55,700 --> 00:50:59,000 permission. My name is Li Xian zhuang until 918 00:50:59,000 --> 00:50:59,600 next time.