Hello everyone, welcome back to a new episode of the AIGA Design
Podcast. I'm Julia Donatello, Design
Competitions and Events manager at AIGA, the professional
association for design, and my Co host.
I'm Li Shan Huang, Co Executive Director of Learning and
Programs here at AIGA, and this season of the show we are
exploring the theme of Eyes on Design.
This theme is inspired by the Eye on Design magazine that ran
from 2015 to 2022. We are bringing back this
critical lens, this connecting eye and this future eye, looking
at design practice, what we do as designers, what we make as
designers, asking hard questions about what we do, how we do it,
how it's changing, how we connect to other disciplines and
industries, and where we're going in the future.
Our guest this episode is Brian Clark, who leads the subject of
graphic design at Falmouth University in the UK, and he is
responsible for the undergraduate degree and future
strategic developments of postgraduate study and research
in the subject at Falmouth. Brian, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much. That's great to be here and
looking forward to having a conversation with you about what
we're up to at Falmouth. So thank you for the invitation.
So let's kick start, Brian, we wanted to hear a little bit from
you like what's the context of how did you get into design in
the first place in your career and and then what brought you to
design education at some point? Of course.
So I started, I guess I'm in a place at the minute where I've
spent half of my career in industry and half in education.
And I was lucky enough to work in some amazing studios.
Part of the kind of heritage of of the the kind of story of
graphic design, whether that's through companies like Lewis
Mobley, where I was a creative partner and director working on
projects all around the world. And also earlier parts of my
career I worked for sort of basically spin offs from
pentagram. And that sort of interesting
connection also came through my own education where I was
probably taught by one of Bob Gills, the original Fletcher
Forb Gills, one of his students at the Royal College of Art.
So the kind of passing down of the baton from various sort of
the sort of the provenance and pedigree of, of the story of
design. And as I carried on through my
professional career, I was gradually doing more and more
educational work and also working with DNAD, which is
obviously your cross Atlantic version of AIGA.
Whereas A trustee and director and gradualise doing more and
more things with the universities to the point where
I thought actually I think I want to jump the board and
actually work full time. So there's a kind of really
interesting part of that mix, which is largely when we're
developing courses at Falmouth that actually we have this
interplay between sort of industry, where industry's
going, but also actually from a subject point of view and a
learning perspective, what can we do to kind of challenge and
provoke new ways of learning. So that's my story really in
terms of how I got in into design.
And actually in some ways the things that drive me are great
ideas and and an excellent craft.
And I think I always say to people, whether I'm in a amazing
design studio in industry or an amazing studio in education, the
thing I'm looking for is that exciting work, a curious mind
and a sort of really interest in, in provoking people's ideas
of what design is and what it can do.
So yeah, I, I see both as a similar kind of balance, which
which I love about being in education, but also connecting
with industry through everything we do.
So yeah, I feel in a very privileged position.
So that's my story to date. Yeah, that's great.
And I love what you said about innovative ways to learn and
teach design. So I'm going to jump into that
and I wanted to hear a little bit more about the university
and the online Masters in graphic design program that I
know you've been involved with. So if you can get a little bit
more into detail of what the program looks like, what is the
type of the students that look for them and what are the type
of work that they're offering? Of course.
So I guess I should start with Falmouth in a sense that as an
art school, we have 120 years of experience and actually the
faculty of graphic design has been going for over 40 years.
So we've kind of had a really good chance to sort of
understand our subjects and also we might say Cornwall is at the
kind of edge of the UK. But actually it's history is a
really exciting one. We were a strong part of the
industrial revolution. The sort of first communication
pipelines went from Cornwall to India and New York.
The first digital message was sent from Cornwall to Southern
Ireland. So we like to think we've got a
really strong heritage in the, in the world of sort of
communications. And I think what sort of came
about through the, the reason for starting the online presence
was that actually sometimes we'll ask that actually why did
we do online? Actually there's a large part of
that which is about how can we extend our reach, How can we
create more accessible and inclusive approaches to design
education. And actually it wasn't in making
this sometimes I also think that in fact, if we were making
design courses now, how would we deliver them?
And in fact, the online space in terms of the technology it
allows us to to engage with is actually an environment where we
can reach out to lots of different cultures around the
world and understand how that sort of cross cultural
understanding of how we learn how we live and from your own
city is really important. And what's really great about
that is that we then end up having a whole series of
students in different parts of the world where we're sharing
the sort of global exploration of the subject.
We're not bringing. Of course, we have campus based
courses where we have international students coming
here. But actually the kind of the key
thing is that fascinates us is like, how do we innovate the
learning space? How does that make create a more
inclusive and diverse kind of community of learners?
And also what that actually does in terms of the opportunities
for those students to not only learn about a subject they love
or want to kind of learn more about and but also kind of
connect with other ways of understanding the subject, which
I think is like really important.
And that might come about, I guess, from in terms of our
understanding of our audience. It could be that we're looking,
we're engaging with students who are sort of, if you like,
looking at a transition between maybe sort of one subject and
another. They might be wanting to
refresh, they're sort of critical and research orientated
context of what they do, but they also may be wanting just to
have a sort of change of tack. So therefore it can be students
who are taking some time out. So although the course runs over
2 years and students can do it part time, actually it might
also be those individuals who want to bring something new into
their own, into their own studios or perhaps are in that
sort of no man's land, which many designers have when they've
been practicing for maybe, you know, 4 to 10 years where they
think actually now's the time for me to launch my own studio.
So we have a number of serious, the sort of various modules that
we have in the course allow for those different kind of
perspectives to be engaged with what they do.
Yeah, I'd love to come back and dig deeper into the format of
your course and especially how you're taking advantage of the
online delivery and the spaces that you're creating across
different geographies and cultures.
But first, I'd like to step back a little bit and paint a picture
of like what's going on in design education.
We have a lot of educators who listen to the show, but we also
have folks who have been maybe out of school for a while and
are just practicing designers, but just to paint with broad
brush strokes. You know, we have a lot of
anxiety about AI right now. But even before that, this
homogenization of design culture with social media flattening
that like kind of everyone looking at the same Pinterest
boards, looking at the same kinds of inspirations.
And obviously there's tons of stuff that's offline in archives
that we don't see as designers. And so that there's that kind of
rupture with history, there's also just plenty of choices for
people to learn design, whether they're self-taught from YouTube
tutorials to a traditional in person course to an online
course like Fallmouth. So yeah, can you give us a
little bit of your perspective? How do you see where design
industry is connecting with the state of design more generally
right now? OK.
So sort of a wide question there in terms of where where I sort
of begin with that. And I suppose I guess we have to
kind of get a sense of I guess design has always kind of been
in flux. It's like, and I suppose we
tried to get our students to kind of embrace that discomfort.
How can we take courageous steps?
How can we remain curious? You know, there is potentially
as discussed a kind of threat in around what the the sort of AI
and other kind of challenges might come about from how we
work. But I suppose in terms of the,
we, we have a balance between understanding what, what
industry is doing, but also challenging what industry could
be. And actually a lot of students
and, and all of us are questioning about the role
design has played in, in our society and what it has done.
You know, there's a lot of items of graphic design floating
around our oceans and in the environment.
So actually, you know, I think even when I speak to industry,
they're trying to get a sense of actually where are things going?
How are we kind of navigating this kind of this story around
the the subject. But I think one of the key
things is that whilst we are, for example, developing an
online space, actually the key thing is that we remain curious
about the world around us. We want to be informed by design
and it's sort of the critical context of where it's been.
But actually we also want to be inspired by life.
So one of the challenges I often find, particularly with students
is like, is actually around encouraging that, you know, how
do they notice the ignored? And we know, you know, I've,
I've sort of, you know, some of my sort of heroes and the people
I mentioned, Fletcher Forbes Gill, you know, I was at a, you
know, you know, obviously Bob Giller's past since.
But you know, he would often talk about redefining a design
problem and actually kind of going to the source of an issue
and waiting there and listening until you find something
interesting to say about that subject.
And then from that point of view, you know, once you've
found that, it's sort of he'll often say it's a miracle it will
design itself. As you know, that's not quite
true. But actually, so we're listening
to what industry have to say. And that's a big part of
actually what we're doing. So even sort of Kenya Hara in,
in Tokyo talks about sort of making the, the, the known
unknown, you know, so we have all these really kind of big
voices and we're listening to those because again, we can't
just see design in, in its own sort of bubble.
We're having to sort of look beyond and learn from different
kind of cultural references. And that's why the global
exploration of the subject is, is really important.
And so I guess from in terms of where things are going, we're
also looking at other studios that they're kind of maybe
looking at cultural sectors, environmental, sustainable.
And I think that's one of the key things that our students are
looking for. Like what is their role in
terms, what is their responsibility in terms of the
future of design? And so in fact, I was in London
just last week when I visited a studio called Vedem and Lamp.
They do a lot of, if you like, destination and place making
sort of global cultural working for the Louvre or working for
London councils. And they've developed a whole
range of different ways of working that can also be digital
products for research or even having their own gallery where
they're bringing in, having an off Lyca exhibition or all sorts
of different things that come in.
So I think designers are questioning their responsibility
and we're seeing new kind of models, emergent practices that
are coming through. And I guess the, the course,
what I guess what that does and what we're trying to do is
question what design is and what it can be.
And I also think that design design industry are also asking
those questions that we don't have to follow the same models.
And I think the exciting thing about being in education or
maybe in the hinterland is that we can actually, we can actually
start to explore those areas. And we don't have the, maybe
the, the business, the pressure of business to actually sort of
force our hand. We can actually be free and
open. And actually the key thing is we
are, we want to learn from our students, you know, and I think
when you, when you look at the kind of graduates, postgrad or
undergraduate industry are taking on, there used to be a
time when actually you look through a portfolios I've done
many times and you wanted to see 10 branding, book design,
digital experience design projects.
Actually, a lot of the good studios now are saying we'd
maybe a see a couple of those, but the others we want to
understand who are you are, who you are, what your voice is,
more experimental projects in terms of.
So I think, you know, times have changed quite dramatically.
It's not the sort of, I think many sort of said that, you
know, in the 20th century design was there to sort of designers
were there to save the world. Now it's actually in the 21st
century, it's design can save the world.
And so we're moving from a kind of egocentric area to something
else and therefore listening to all these voices.
So Falmouth calling on this amazing network of alumni we
have to put to actually input into our content to offer
students, students portfolio reviews, but also us to kind of
draw on those voices so that students are sort of learning
across different sort of cultural inputs.
Going back to this online format of the course, one of the things
that came up in our previous conversations is that the online
format is a feature and not a fall back, right?
That you're really taking advantage of a global geography
of your students and, you know, recreating this idea of the
studio based in person design education and creating this
global studio. I wanted to reflect on it from
my own experience as well as a design educator.
I mean, obviously we were forced into it during the pandemic, but
even before that I was teaching online or teaching in hybrid
formats for, for many years now, for over a decade or almost a
decade now, I've been teaching in this hybrid executive
education course at at Parsons where it's an executive
master's. So the folks are working their
mid career, their senior design leaders.
And so we gather, you know, once every couple of months and then
meet online in between. So there's taking advantage of
the format to meet the students where they are, I guess is the
point that I'm making. So I'd love to hear how you all
are thinking about that at Falmouth of like this online
thing, not like the second best version of an in person studio,
but it's actually something different and maybe better
given, you know, these different trade-offs.
Yeah, and I suppose what happens.
So obviously the the course is designed to run over 2 years.
So it's a kind of enables students to base both basically
work and study at the same time. The other thing is the, the, the
actual modules are designed to, I suppose, bring in different
sort of building blocks. So actually what you will have
is some students coming from quite different backgrounds and
hand different directions. So there may be some in sort of
more leadership roles who want to invest back into their own,
their own, their own sort of practice.
I think the other, the important thing is we also have
residentials. So basically in a similar way
we've, I did a research degree at the Royal College of Art.
We had sort of burst modules. So I think it's AI think what we
try to do is have a kind of consistency running through the
course. So you will have sort of set
modules. You'll also have time to have
live stream debate. And the key thing about, I guess
the kind of global cohort is that everyone's working on
different time zones. Yeah.
So actually one of the sort of beauties of that online
environment, it's actually very inclusive.
It allows for lots of different learning styles.
And therefore, if you've listened to your sort of
lectures and had that sort of debate, you can then review and
kind of go back into those activities and actually sort of
take your time to to understand that learning in a, in a
specific kind of way. But the residentials become also
really important. And actually so they're varied.
So sometimes we would come to Falmouth so we can make use of
the sort of making facilities here.
It's something we're going to be doing more of in the future.
In the past we've also been to Berlin and we often link in with
different designers in those cities.
So students come into a cultural centre.
We do different projects a little bit like you're saying,
where we have these burst experiences and it have really
an amazing opportunity for for designers and students to kind
of come together and work. We also went to Venice B and
Allay last year. So there's a kind of, you know,
again, students can kind of tailor make that to their own
particular interests. And I think it's also really
important, it's not a one-size-fits-all.
We have a very sort of and obviously graphic design is
continually evolving and emerging across lots of
different platforms and lots of different environments.
I think it's also really important that particularly at
masters level, we're providing a space where the kind of the the
openness and the the sort of rigour of a research orientated
sort of learning style actually starts to sort of empower
students to kind of maybe look at how we work in a different
way. I actually have to say when I
did my sort of research degree, I found that actually having
that using different types of research methods and working
with users in in a more participatory way, you suddenly
start to be liberated by design. You know, we're not selling
these three ideas. We're actually asking our
audience to to get feedback. And it's a much more open,
authentic way of understanding how research can play a part in,
in the design process. So therefore back to that sort
of structure, there's, there is the sort of over the two years,
there's a kind of there's a kind of contemporary practice module
where we really understand broader global landscape of, of
graphic design. And then we have these
permutations where we look at more critical, the historical
understanding of it. We have a studio and
entrepreneurship module, which is really important because
again, some students are wanting to learn from different ways
that different sort of specialisms collaborate.
And we have a live project sort of field where we look at design
competitions. And working on live projects and
then we have the final major project.
So the, the system is very flexible.
It's kind of open. It embeds what we call the level
level 7, the sort of postgraduate sort of learning
outcomes and the and the rigour that comes from that.
And then we also invite students to come down or come back to
Falmouth for their degree show when or their sorry their
graduation ceremony at the end. So that's a really lovely point
as well, certainly for me as head of the depart, when I
suddenly see all these students coming from different parts of
the world for their their sort of their graduation.
So yeah, I think there's some similarities with some models.
I think from Falmouth's perspective, I think we we kind
of have this balance between very strong industry networks
and communities and many of our students now even from our
campus based courses are working all around the world.
So often we have scenarios where we can kind of put people in
contact with various folk and and offer that sort of support.
In fact, it's fair to say that before the before the pandemic,
even on campus based courses, we used to do portfolio events
where we'd go to London. We used to either go to the
design Museum in London and we invite sort of literally all of
the the great and the good from the from London's creative
industry. When COVID came along, we
shifted that online. We call it the creative
community. So actually what's really
interesting is that we're kind of actually learning that
sometimes the online space for for portfolio reviews and others
give students so much more opportunity to engage with a
variety of learning. So even on our undergraduate
course, we had, you know, hundreds of interviews that were
given by industry to to our students.
And I think actually the freedom of that and different, you know,
we have some online tutors, for example, who are, who are sort
of teaching from, from Africa, from New York, different, you
know, sometimes they might be teaching other universities.
So there's a really sort of rich and diverse input into the sort
of student experience. But that's the kind of that's
the sort of remit for, for the the spirit and structure of the
course. It's very interesting.
And there's also another element of the global studio that I, I
wanted to hear more from you in terms of how the program looks
like. So we know that the students
kind of have to build a collective map of making
facilities around the world. So wherever they're, they're
based. So it could be book binding
shops, screening printing studios or 3D printing labs.
So how does it actually work in practice and how and what do you
think it changes in terms of the way the students work or even
collaborate as a team, like as a remote?
So that was a kind of a real conundrum to start off with
because obviously when you go to a university, you have this
diversity of sort of making spaces, which is amazing.
And actually students can come and do a master's course here,
of course, in communication design.
But actually for many, the abilities to study from their
own city is really important. So what we thought at the early
stage because sort of thinking through making through having
that access to different sort of making facilities like how are
we going to sort of solve that problem?
So it actually kind of started with with one of the one of the
projects which was actually looking at kind of the sort of
identity identity of different cities through their typographic
vernacular. So we created a Geo tagged map
where one of the projects asked them to sort of basically start
to curate an archive globally of different types of typefaces and
letter forms that existed in your city.
So it kind of started like that. And then we thought actually,
we, we created this platform where suddenly you could look at
lots of different cities and find out these wonderful spots
where someone had highlighted different typefaces.
And so actually from a research point of view, we're actually
using that platform to build a really fascinating archive.
But at the same time, we thought, well, actually the kind
of the conundrum of having of of actually needing making spaces.
So through the course, students are encouraged to find making
resources that will help them with their project, Though you
know that as you say, they might find the book binders, the
screen printers, digital printing, and we get them to Geo
tag those on a map. So we're creating a library of
resources for students in that particular city.
That's great for when they're actually studying, but what's
really significant is when they then finish, they have then got
that library of resources that they know of and they've had
that time to practice. So if they then suddenly engage
with a client project where they're going to produce, you
know, a piece of a piece of print or they're going to work
with a certain sort of product or exhibition designer, they
might have made those connections already.
So that's a really sort of valuable point I think of of of
finding and sort of locating those resources.
And I think it just means there's not, if you, you know,
there's horses for courses, you can go to a university, study
there, go back to your home city, and then you've suddenly
got to find all those resources again.
So actually through the course, we're also exploring and
connecting. The other thing that's happens
that's really great is that students may be from different
countries or even in, in within a single country, they might
suddenly make these connections with one another and then they
can collaborate together or they can actually think, actually, do
you know what, let's, let's start, let's start doing some
projects together. So then you start to get this
really interesting hybridisation of, of a professional practice
set up. And, and to be fair, we've
actually, we saw that happening, you know, 20 years ago when
actually even there came a point where clients want to know where
the office is. And actually now you don't know
whether that studio is operating from 3 or 4 bases or everyone
sitting around the same table. Look at us here now.
So that's a kind of an amazing thing.
And it's a kind of, you know, it's, it shows that fluidity.
And actually, and I think what happened with building online
sort of environments for learning is that basically there
came a point where the technology was not a barrier,
you know, So actually generally we think now, well, basically if
you can think something, you can kind of make it, you know.
And so certainly a student level, there will be those
instances in terms of making where, OK, you need to do this
piece of Arduino, you need to learn about coding.
Yeah, we're not necessarily providing that facility, but we
will make those connections so you can start to bring that into
your work. And certainly if I think we
always say with postgraduate courses, you know, the getting,
getting the master's degree is, is amazing actually what you're
doing. You're starting a new, you're
starting a new kind of journey where your work will extend
beyond the masters. And it stands as this kind of a
sort of process of revitalisation in terms of your
own creative direction. Yeah, that was one that
certainly that kind of tool within the, within the the
online course is really important.
And we try to also use that, you know, in the practical sense as
well for project work. Yeah, I love what you said that
nowadays we ask where where is the office based and there is no
such thing, right. Yeah, Yeah.
What I think also to AIJ as the national team, I mean, we used
to have an office at some point in New York, but now everybody's
spread Dority based in the East Coast.
But like we don't have like Deshawn is in Rhode Island, I'm
in New York. So it's just very.
Interesting to see. How that can work actually?
Yeah, and the other thing I think is important to bear in
mind is even again post COVID, the cost of rentals and studios
in, you know, professional environments are actually
evolving how they work. So you know, in London last
week, you know, you have a scenario where actually studio,
you know, coming to the studio from Tuesday to Thursday and
then working away. And actually it does raise the
question of, of how we evolve studio culture and studio kind
of society, because certainly when as a, you know, if you're
an undergraduate and you're coming, actually a lot of the
big studios are looking, you know, you learn so much being in
the studio. So actually, you know, part of
these part of the questioning around the online space.
And I think certainly when we have modules like studio and
entrepreneurship, we are actually asking students to
question the role of the working space and how can we make either
a digital environment or an actual space, a physical space
work for us, as you know, a, a, a place of creative safety where
we can challenge and test new ideas.
And that's a really sort of significant part of what we do.
Because, you know, taking doing a, an online creative course
like graphic design is not just about us taking content and
putting it online. It's actually us about
innovating within the space so that we can test and trial new
ways of working together. And I think, you know, that for
me is one of the most exciting things about doing in this
course. And I suppose, you know, nearly
10 years down the line, you know, we're experienced now in,
in generating those kind of ideas and actually creating a
kind of, we call an online pedagogy that is both sort of
innovative, but is also one that, you know, you don't come
out at the end of the course and say, Oh my God, I've been locked
in a dark room for, you know, for sort of two years.
Actually, you come out with, you know, with a rejuvenated
practice and you have all those skills to, to, to engage in a
sort of hybrid environment, which which we're doing now and
then. And that's what's happening in
studios as well. So it's a kind of, you know,
it's an exciting space, but it's no different.
And I think also, you know, with graphic design anyway, it's
always had a juggle with technology, you know, whether
that was and, and, and how we interpret that in terms of the
work of the hand and the eye. You know, when the first book
was printed, there was scepticism around certain sort
of that technology. And we continue to have to
embrace that and use it in the most sort of, you know, exciting
and relevant and authentic way. So we've been talking about
these collaborations that you've been creating space for across
cultures and geographies. I'm curious about
interdisciplinary collaborations as well, you know, because as
designers, we're not just working with other designers.
It could be working with a musician or an entrepreneur or a
technologist. So, can you give some examples
of how these interdisciplinary collaborations happen in your
course or with your students? Yeah, of course.
So, so basically let's we'll start.
I'll give a couple of examples. I mean, one is actually within
within the course itself. So we are likely to have
students from quite some different fields.
So very often you might have someone who, let's say, like
many famous musicians, they studied graphic design and then
they became a musician or, and, and they may have come from a
different background. So whilst we might think on MA
graphics zone, they're all very hardcore typographers and you
know, sort of have come from A and we do have those we have.
And that's what's we also have some folk who've come from, they
might, they might have been illustrators, they might be an
artist, they might be musicians and they're coming in with a,
with a strong kind of skills. But you know, one of the sort of
ways that we, we might sort of use those in a more
interdisciplinary way, in a surprising way, because I think
that's the other thing. Surprise in an interdisciplinary
sort of sort of context is like really exciting.
And, and I've always loved that in the design, in a design sort
of teaching or working situation where someone puts an idea
forward and you kind of go, Oh my goodness, where did that come
from? So we have, you know, one of the
projects we have is where we ask students to highlight an issue
in their sort of local environment that perhaps needs
to change and they create an output of that.
They might make a film, they might make a poster, they might
make a kind of report, if you like that explains or tells that
story. Now that could be quite
interdisciplinary. It might be, it might be to do
with, could be something to do with adult literacy.
It might be to something with sustainability environment.
So we're, we're dealing with different types of disciplines
and challenges. We look at those and then we
then, then everyone thinks they're going to solve their
problem. But actually what we do, we
throw the balls in the air. And in fact, someone from New
York is going to be solving a problem from someone in Mumbai.
So it kind of switches around. So it's not only
interdisciplinary sort of working, but it's also
intercultural working and how we can learn from those
disciplines, which is really exciting.
Another, another example I'd also give is something we did
recently, which was through a kind of campus experience, but
it gives a sense of the spirit. So we were looking at.
So at Falmouth we have, we're really lucky in that we're a
specialist arts university. We have architects,
choreographers, graphic designers, artists, fashion
designers, sort of all working under the same same roof, the
same sort of online space. And we had, we had a kind of, we
were working with a, a, a, an arts critic who was looking at
transdisciplinary working. So we thought, let's give that a
go. So we kind of basically we
wanted to learn from, if we set a range of different students.
So basically, although it's this, we were doing this on
campus, we would also be encouraging students online to
actually work. Maybe, you know, they might be
doing a project where they want to work with a musician and an
architect and they would bring those in.
So we use that interdisciplinary kind of catalyst to sort of
challenge new ways of thinking. So the example that I was going
to give about the music project is we put fashion designers,
graphic designers, musicians all in one sort of room and they had
to explore the idea of kind of collaboration.
And what was also really important that there was very
different neurodiversities within those groups as well,
which was, you know, for me, a, a really truly exciting, open
kind of creative environment. And what was amazing is that we
started to have some, some of the, some of the team just
started playing music, but they did it understand in, in the
answer to the collaboration brief.
And the drum would go a bit fast, then the guitar would come
in and, and you just saw a metaphor for, for how we how
different personalities work within a within a team.
Another one, which was really amazing.
There was a student who remembers their music through
writing stories, writing down words.
And so the graphic designer saw here's a, here's a type of
graphic system here. So basically they assigned
musical notes to different levels of the, to different
letters of the alphabet. And then they just said a
statement, the big brown house is on the top of the green hill.
And from that they started creating a piece of music from
that. So that was a really amazing
example of actually how disciplines can inspire one of
those and inspire 1, inspire one another to kind of find
completely different angles and ways of seeing a kind of
problem. And I think that's what's really
exciting about how the sort of evolution of our different
subjects are going is that if you've got these platforms and
these open spaces for very inclusive and accessible ways of
sharing ideas and learning, then we work is made that completely
surprises you. And I think that that point
comes back to industry looking in on Falmouth to kind of think
about all industry doesn't have all the answers.
What if, what if education is starting to challenge and
explore new models of practice and interdisciplinary working.
So we might call it convergence practice, where actually many
disciplines are kind of working together and coming up maybe
with solutions, ideas that weren't part of the original
brief, but actually enable us to sort of understand something in
a different way, which you might sort of bring.
There's a 2 designers who academics, Stephanie and Bruce
Tharpe, who've written an amazing book on discursive
design. And we know with those those
sorts of ideas that they're there to provoke discussion.
They're not providing a real world solution, but sometimes
they can be as powerful as as a real world solution.
So all of those different ways of making through
interdisciplinary, intercultural, both speculative
ideas, real world ideas, they all allow the kind of graphic
design student within our course to kind of not only explore the
absolute kind of hallowed ground of graphic design, but also see
where it might go, see where it might take us.
And those are the exciting bits. And I think that's where the
sort of research sort of foundation is really important
to that sort of master study and can also elevate your journey as
a practitioner to something that surprises you, You know, So I
think again, it always, it's an ongoing kind of fascination for
me to to to find these different ways of understanding.
But the driver is that sort of creative curiosity.
We might. Yeah, there's a real like
richness to all of these different layers and all of
these places that graphic design can take you beyond like maybe
some of the, the initial surface level things that, yeah, attract
people to design in the 1st place.
I'd love to ask you this question.
That's like the hot topic all over right now.
It's like how you're navigating the AI questions.
You know, I think we're all trying to figure this out as we
go, but are there any things that you'd like to?
Share Yeah, I think, I mean, basically, I guess it's of it's
an ongoing debate. I suppose, you know, one of the
approaches we think about this at Falmouth is to kind of we
need to be sceptical, but we also need need to be curious.
You know, I think that's kind of really important.
So we have to engage with it. We have to sort of think about
it and face up to the opportunities it can bring as a
sort of form of invention. But I think it's also, I guess
we sort of acknowledge that there are kind of there's a lot
of debate around its role as a generative tool actually also as
a kind of an assistive tool. It's also really important.
So we might sort of say a creative partner or a creative
assistant. But what's really important now
is that we actually acknowledge its use.
We acknowledge what we're doing to be creative with it.
So there's maybe a time certainly in kind of in, in
academia where maybe someone's writing an essay and you're kind
of not sure what's going to happen.
Now we have a very stringent sort of policy at Falmouth
where, where acknowledgement of the role of, of, of, of AI
within that sort of project is really important.
So we all know it can help with, and it can help with certain
things in terms of grammar and all those kind of things.
And it can certainly speed up sort of research.
It can do a number of those things.
But the key thing is we're acknowledging it.
We're experimenting with it and we're actually curious of the
tool I so therefore I think for us to maybe say, oh, we're not,
you know, AI is not on the table here.
You know, it's definitely not about that at all.
But at the same time, we want to hear all those different voices.
So actually it was only a month ago we had for example,
particularly on illustration courses, obviously where you
know, where the generative side of it is a real worry,
particularly for new students, new parents, They're all sort of
thinking actually what's happening with art design?
Is it going to be taken over? We're actually, we empowered our
students to be part of the symposium to talk about AI and
illustration and it was a very sort of inclusive approach to
discussing it. So rather than the university
saying this is what we're going to do, you can't do this, you
can't do that, we wanted to hear from our students to understand
like what they thought about it and and what we believe its role
is. But ultimately now it's a more
kind of transparent approach to how we accept it into our our
sort of partnering a part as long as within a creative sort
of process. So I definitely think that sort
of there is a healthy scepticism, but also a really
fascinating curiosity. And I think you see pieces of
work emerging. There was a lovely piece of work
that was done, but ad agency where they basically pitted
Serena Williams against herself at sort of five or six different
points in her athletic career and they made a tournament.
Now we could never do that before.
So that was really fascinating. So I think when you see it being
used really creatively, it's, it's amazing.
And, but I, I think it's not, you know, I think when we, we,
when we have industry online into our sort of studios, we,
we're always asking about it. And of course there's an
absolute kind of acknowledgement that to some areas of business,
it will start to kind of, you know, it will, it will take over
those areas. But the higher level, the
strategic level, where that kind of where that kind of critical
thinking needs to come in, it has to start with us as, as
human thinkers And, and you know, we can use I've, I've done
a lot of healthcare based work and we've used AI to, and we did
a project about loneliness and dementia.
So we actually used an AI algorithm to analyse human
stories of those with early onset dementia.
And it gave a score of loneliness.
It wasn't to solve anything or give them drugs.
It was helping the NHS to prioritise care.
And to me that was like an amazing thing.
I the idea of understanding a story from a different
perspective was just like, that was amazing.
And actually going back to the interdisciplinary thing, I had
no idea we could do something like that.
So I went to a conference, spoke to a doctor, we're talking about
this idea. And then suddenly this machine
learning engineer comes along and say, oh, we can use this
algorithm and to do that. And to me, that's this amazing
sense of actually how we embrace that interdisciplinary field.
And I think that's the other really important thing is a lot
of the things we're also exploring is this this kind of
Nexus between creativity and technology, art and science.
And I think, you know, we have to be round the table and we
want our students to be around the table in terms of that
debate and involve them with it and for them to feel part of
that sort of discussion. Yeah, that's wonderful.
You know, a lot of it is just experimentation and asking the
right questions and like, you know, finding these unexpected
collaborations, like with the machine learning thing.
I wanted to give you, Brian, like a chance to maybe sum up or
try to tie together some of these threads before I turn it
back to Julia for the closing questions of what, what, what
are the future designers you're trying to produce?
I know that you have a diversity of students and experiences, but
like, what are some of the common threads of the kinds of
future design professionals that you're trying to educate?
I think ultimately with all of our students at Falmouth and on
probably many more universities, we are looking to kind of create
sort of curious and courageous sort of thinkers who can kind of
be comfortable with discomfort and kind of be brave enough to
suggest different ideas. And certainly, you know, when
we, we like to sort of impart that on our students, so when
they do come to their first job or come to a new job, they have
that kind of confidence to maybe express an idea and to argue
that idea and to promote that idea.
I think what's really interesting about the online
student, particularly within the context of the, the sort of
graphic design and our sort of global studio, is that they
start to kind of, and that's part of the masters course as
well, is like actually really understanding what your voice
is, what your story is, where you want to take your work.
And actually, I think what the cultural interdisciplinary story
does is makes you kind of grow a richer empathy for others.
And it also allows you to really consider actually, if I do
engage with my coder friend in Tokyo or I think about a sort
of, you know, a sort of a certain digital artist in sort
of Mumbai, wherever it might be, that suddenly I can bring really
new perspectives. And like the music sort of idea,
the music project I spoke about actually embracing a very rich
and diverse kind of multicultural, multi gender,
multi sort of ethnic space where everybody can share openly.
It sounds like a little bit of a kind of utopian view that I
think when when folk do have that chance to discuss with
other many different ideas across from many different
perspectives, I think that that makes for a sort of rich
individual and someone who is is knows themselves a little bit
more. I think the other thing that,
particularly for the the online student is they start to feel,
they start to feel confident about being able to innovate
within a digital and hybridised studio environment.
And I and and it's clear that the kind of, you know, the there
are times when we can work and as we're doing now sort of talk
many thousands of miles away. But there's also those times
when we have to make that decision, yes, to cut go to that
country to to talk with our client to back to the Bob Gill
story, to actually really sort of experience that that sort of
problem to understand, to listen noticed the ignored that maybe
only our human eyes might see or perhaps not our human eyes,
maybe non human eyes might see. And we have to sort of
understand a problem from from all those different sort of
perspectives. And I think the other thing
about, you know, the the the which is, you know, it's it's a
it's the responsibility of education.
But certainly at Falmouth and certainly online students that
we are asking in to really question the status quo.
You know, we, there may be different ways that could be
more sustainable, that might not be about growth, they might be
about degrowth. They might be about thinking in
a, in a, you know, a new way of doing things where maybe
resources are far less. But actually by thinking about
that creatively empowering others citizen innovators to
work with us, that we can start to kind of, you know, sort of
find new ways of of creating more effective and sort of
ethical impact in what we do. So to me, that's a sort of
exciting thing about the student.
It's like, and maybe it's not changed.
Maybe we're always being curious about finding new ways of
thinking, liberating different ways of working together.
But I think the online environment is one that actually
encourages folk to not be limited by the screen, but
actually, this is just a vehicle in which you can kind of carry
on working and connecting with both, you know, the real world
and a richer culture students. And to be honest, going back to
again, the early part, like why, why an online course will
actually, it's, it's the, IT is one of the most innovative ways
to learn about graphic design now, because we are, we can
build such a kind of rich cross cultural community now.
I think it will be really fascinating to see our students
in, in 10 years time. Like how have they innovative?
In fact, when I spoke about Vidom and Lamp, that was
important because actually I took them on as as graduates 25
years ago in in the studio I worked in London.
And to see them take on that sort of that responsibility, but
also innovating where the industry is going and taking
responsibility for the archival history of what's happened.
If for me, it's like a kind of, you know, sort of a really heart
warming thing to see, you know, young designers really working
through. And I think by giving that sense
of trust and confidence and autonomy that I think comes
through the course that actually when we see what's what are they
going to bring to the creative industries is a really kind of
exciting thing. So I think that's the sort of,
and it cycles back, you know, that's why I gave that example
of Vedum and Lamp because actually most professionals are
also keen to invest in, you know, what's coming through.
And actually that's why from my perspective with my, I'm in the
seesaw moment between half industry, half that actually, I
see the same kind of investment that like, you know, amazing
design studios and professionals have with their young designers,
as I hope we do in our students, you know, from a, from an
academic's point of view. So that's the that's the hope
and the joy. Yeah, I think Speaking of
questioning the status quo, the next question fits very well.
I wanted to hear from you. If you could redesign a product
or a service space from scratch, any anything that you you wish,
what would you and why? OK.
So that's an interesting question.
I mean, I'll, I kind of maybe I'll Nestle into an area that
I've worked on for both in my professional world and and
that's a sort of a lot of my careers being spent in sort of
designing for food and health. And I suppose if I had that
chance, I'd probably think about the relationship between food
and health and how can we make that better.
So probably I'd like to think about designing better
legislation, designing information systems to better
inform individuals to make sort of healthier choices, more kind
of more maybe ethical choices about their, the way they live,
which actually also impacts on others and the health of not
only them, but the planet as well.
So a bit lofty, but actually I do know that there are things
around preventative healthcare start with very simple kind of
decisions. And actually again, design maybe
has has had its hand in promoting different types of
behaviours. And I think, you know, that's
probably why I've slightly shifted from the world of sort
of pure graphic design and branding to actually taking
those problem skills and critical ways of thinking and,
and bringing that into the field of sort of healthcare design.
So yeah, that's probably what I'd try to do.
It's about information systems and making sort of positive
choices for individuals and the wider world.
Yeah, I love that. That's great.
I love that when we add this for participant here in the podcast,
people answer very different things.
So it's it's good. We've heard already redesigning
education, redesigning e-mail and spam, redesigning the subway
system in New York. So it's just very cool to see
what's on people's minds. So yeah, that's great.
Yeah. To close up here, we wanted to
hear what what has been inspiring you lately.
It could be like a book, a film, exhibition, music album,
anything that has been feeding your creative soul.
Yeah, well, I, I have to, I mean, I'm from London
originally. I was born there and worked
there for 20 odd years and I still love going back up there.
And actually, when I was up there the other, the other week,
I went to Japan House, which had an exhibition of 100 makers from
Japan. And, and actually that was
really inspiring. It kind of, it reminds us of the
value of, you know, I'll say it again, the kind of learning from
other cultures and looking at the similarities and
differences, the way we use materials, the way we use our
hands, the way we use technology to make the world around us.
And that's, there's so much we can learn from that.
I think the other thing that came out from that is also I
picked up a, a book called packaging and it was curated by
Kenya Hari. And actually it was the in in
Japan, they have the sort of takeo paper paper sort of
exhibitions that happened through.
They did a lovely one on sort of sort of sort of haptic.
And they've done different on paper, different types of
exhibition, but this one was talking about different types of
packaging and what it start. The book starts at both ends. 1
is on functionality. And the other way of defining
packaging is about laughter. And again, I I love the sort of
I love the two complete contrasts that could, yeah,
perhaps come from a Japanese way of a philosophical,
philosophical way of thinking. But again, to me, it sort of
highlights the, the, the joy of, of how we learn from different,
different perspectives. And so whilst I also went to the
Wes Anderson exhibition, which was amazing, the design museum,
I also love the kind of the, the, the different sort of
contrast. So I think that's a real treat.
And it's another thing to say, I think that whilst, you know, if,
when you're, if you're studying London, you have all those
things, if we're studying in Cornwall, we have museums, if
you're online, we're encouraging people to like, really invest
and understand the culture that is around them.
Because we often find that even we don't look enough, we don't
go out and enjoy the environment or enjoy, enjoy exhibitions and
things like that. So there's this kind of content,
continuous tension. But certainly from my own
perspective, that was a a real sort of injection of inspiration
and and joy, having seen that exhibition and bought yet
another book on design. That's great.
Awesome. So, Brian, as a final call to
action for our listeners here, for our community, can you let
them know where to find you? Yeah, sure.
I mean, basically I'm, if anyone, anyone wants to e-mail
me, I'm at brianbryn.clarkclark@falmouth.ac.uk.
If you go to Falmouth, www.falmouth.ac.uk, you'll get
the information about the courses that we run online and
obviously on campus. And I'm really interested to
hear from people as well that if they're kind of, if there's
anything they want to talk or discuss about, it might be
someone from industry thinks actually I'd love to contribute
to one of your, you know, to your online programme.
I'd love to visit Falmouth or it might be, I'd love to study at
Falmouth, I'd love to study online.
So the, the most important thing is that dialogue kind of
happens, you know, and I, sometimes I think people are a
little bit worried about getting in touch, but you know, that's
what I would say, please do get in touch.
I can also pass individuals on to different folk, different
departments. So, you know, we are genuinely
fascinated and open to sharing sort of dialogue and discussion
around what we do, whether that's studying or contributing
to what we do here at Falmouth. So yeah, please, please do get
in touch or share your stories or interests.
We'd love that. Yeah, I love it.
Thanks so much, Brian. And we'll post links to relevant
resources in the show notes. And for our listeners, you can
also get in touch with us podcast at aig.org.
Please leave us a review or like us, tell a friend about this.
But until next time, I am Li Shan Huang on behalf of Julia
and Brian. See you later.
Thank you so much.