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If you're not a great listener 
as a designer, you're probably 

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not going to succeed in this 
business. 

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You have to listen for sure. 
The first place is probably a 

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well-developed brief, right? 
You don't do anything like that.

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Listening. 
Hello? 

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And welcome to design, adjacent 
the podcast that talks about the

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Nexus of design both today. 
And tomorrow, I'm your host, Ben

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EF Johnson and today, our guest 
is truly special. 

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Her brand is all about Out 
babies young children and 

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growing up our guest today is 
none other than Chief brand 

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officer and chief creative 
director for munchkin Diana 

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Barnes known as DB DB began a 
career at munchkin, the global 

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leader, in children's feeding 
and care products. 

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In 2014, she oversees Global 
brand Partnerships and manages 

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public relations, social media, 
and brand design teams 

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worldwide, under dbe's 
leadership much. 

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It's brand design. 
Team has won over 80 top 

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International Awards including 
two of the highly coveted red 

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towards a passionate advocate 
for trees animals in the 

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environment. 
D be created in leads. 

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All of munchkins corporate 
social responsibility 

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initiatives, including 
Partnerships with the well 

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Sanctuary project trees for the 
future and the international 

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fund for Animal Welfare. 
Before, joining munchkin, DB 

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served as Global director of 
brand, designed for Dell in. 

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This key role, she led Global 
teams from Austin and India, and

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China prior to that her career 
began in music and entertainment

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holding creative leadership 
positions at Sony and BMI. 

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So from design to Brand to 
impacting our world. 

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I'd like to welcome DB to our 
podcast today. 

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Welcome. 
Hi Benny. 

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How are you doing? 
I'm doing great. 

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Thank you so much for having me.
It's really a pleasure to have 

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you join us. 
We had a mutual friend, who 

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mentioned when we talked that 
you absolutely loved as I. 

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And it's a powerful way to be 
introduced by colleagues for a 

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love of his eye. 
I'd love to start off by telling

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a little bit. 
How what? 

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Drew you into design? 
How did you start? 

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Well, I was well on my way to 
being an attorney actually. 

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So it was a bend in the road. 
I always thought I would be. 

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Be an attorney and I at the time
was married to a photographer 

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and he was attending art center 
and he seemed to be having a lot

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more fun and I was far more 
interested in what he was doing 

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the what I was doing really. 
It was just opportunity came 

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along and I accepted a job at a 
music label and worked my way up

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that way I was completely 
untrained and really didn't go 

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back and get my design degree 
from our Center until I was well

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into my third. 
Not already been a creative 

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director. 
So sort of came in, through the 

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back door, which is kind of the 
pathology of my career actually 

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talked a bit about that, 
excitement to come and getting a

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job in the entertainment 
industry and through pursuing, 

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this more exciting approach than
studying. 

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The law in design that describe 
your feeling. 

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I had a like you're working in 
design but you decided to go 

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back and continue your formal 
education. 

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What really drove you to that? 
Well, my degree, my first 

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degree. 
My first batch was, is it? 

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In English. 
And so, I'm a passionate lover 

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of the written word and I think 
that it the natural inclination 

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for me was to move along to 
learn how to really support that

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and bring that to life. 
So bringing stories to life was 

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to me, just a natural 
progression. 

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But like I said, it already been
a creative director at a record 

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company and it was a wonderful 
time in the 90s where I was 

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living in Nashville and people 
started hinting that I might 

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want to know a little bit about 
the Web, the web was going to be

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the next big thing, and I might 
want to know digital. 

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So I had fortunately saved 
enough in my career to take a 

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break. 
And I went to Art Center and 

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aren't another degree and BFA, 
and design and graphic design 

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and packaging and went back. 
I think after that, after I 

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graduated, it was The.com. 
Craze you could pretty much name

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your job in this industry. 
It was a golden time, and I 

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ended up working for a firm and 
eventually went back to music to

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In some previous colleagues and 
things had changed a lot in the 

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music industry at that point. 
So yes, I think my career has 

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always been a jungle gym of 
In-House and then jumping over 

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to learn more and agency or 
design firm life, and then 

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coming back in to see this 
through line of Storytelling 

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from your experience in English 
as an English. 

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Major to be involved in music 
and then on to design and brand.

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What is the role of Storytelling
that well back before? 

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The term branding was a thing. 
We were really branding for 

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artists and music and so many 
ways, not only by the genre of 

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music by the message of the 
album. 

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And then when you break down an 
album, each song is its own 

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story. 
And so your job is to really 

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translate all of those stories 
and how to capture that in so 

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many, maybe just one primary 
visual actually, the album cover

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and then, how does that 
translate into the videos and 

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all of the other marketing 
components. 

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And so, when I was recruited to 
lead the team at Dell, L a tech 

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company. 
It was really to infuse this 

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entertainment value and 
emotional connection when detect

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which is ostensibly a black box.
So really it was easier for me 

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because I just applied that same
skill. 

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All of those stories for every 
human. 

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All of us are really captive in 
our own computers to a large 

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degree. 
When you think about it, they 

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are photos or correspondence or 
bookmarks. 

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So my point of view is my whole 
life is in that thing for Dell 

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for the actual computer itself. 
Don't draw the emotional 

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connection to the actual thing. 
Draw, the actual story. 

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Not the enormity of the 
responsibility of everything 

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that's in it, your whole life, 
to how to use it, the 

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responsibility to recover it. 
So that was an easy translation 

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for me and then the human 
connectivity comes from what's 

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in there. 
And that much can it was very 

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different munchkin was really 
about telling and untold story. 

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When I arrived there in 2014, it
was a B2B or as our CEO often 

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described it. 
We were targets largest supplier

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and trying to move away from 
that narrative and Eating a 

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Lifestyle brand was really my 
goal from the beginning long 

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before they knew they were going
to become a Lifestyle brand. 

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So it was really just about 
reframing, how we spoke about 

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the company and that kind of 
began with are creating our new 

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mission statement. 
We are on a mission to become 

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the world's most loved baby 
Lifestyle brand, but really we 

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knew if we were going to be 
regarded, as the most loved we 

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were hitting the mark. 
They left our products, they 

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loved our purpose, so they love 
the brand and then we broke it 

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down and did the Tactical 
branding that. 

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Process, which was the first 
piece was making sure that we 

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shot her own lifestyle, photos 
versus stock and updating fonts 

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and templates and then the 
experiential and then really 

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creating the CSR. 
I think referencing the company 

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and it's true for munchkin. 
It's really a design company. 

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First has really helped us and 
how we frame up our 

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storytelling. 
Everything with you need to know

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about munchkin is really all in 
house, everything occurs in 

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house, all of our product 
design, our brand design, we We 

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do everything ourselves. 
That's why we have over 300 

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patents. 
When we look under the hood, if 

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you will engage in my skin, is 
that you don't just say your 

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Innovative modern incredible. 
You actually back it up with 

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over 307, patents with the work.
You're doing your powered by 

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Innovation design to make 
parents lives easier and more 

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enjoyable and your pyre bus into
the City and design is always 

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the space, that you can see that
this love. 

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And this moment thinking of in 
pulling from your site. 

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Right now, the little things we 
think about Laughter, where did 

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you doing in there? 
So you come in you move from 

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being a B2B company, right? 
Move from being the back in 

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supplier to. 
Now you're talking directly to 

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Consumers and talking about 
engaging in making babies happy 

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now. 
The fun part is babies don't 

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really have credit cards. 
Talk a bit about how you go from

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engaging companies. 
To exciting parents seeing the 

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joy in their kids through the 
products that you are able to 

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deliver. 
We've never positioned ourselves

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as talking to babies, and I do 
that. 

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We're talking to the parents and
for the babies happy experience 

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and the mom's, right? 
That's really what we're all 

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about. 
I think that we are different 

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and we're number one and so many
categories because we engage in 

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honest, dialogue with them. 
And the first place we start is 

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reviews, we read all of our 
reviews and we do just look at 

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sales figures. 
Those are really relying on how 

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deeply connected you are to your
community. 

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And we do this in a number of 
ways of first way. 

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We read the reviews. 
Religiously. 

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And a lot of our product 
Innovation is derived from what 

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they're telling us that they 
want or don't want and what they

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have of ours that they love or 
maybe don't love. 

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And that's the first place we 
start. 

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The second place is obviously 
our social platform. 

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We are very different in that, 
we do not buy followers so that 

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we can continue that honest 
dialogue. 

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And a lot of Brands feel like 
it's best to sort of look like 

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you're engaging in or you have 
high engagement from your 

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consumers by buying followers, 
we don't do that. 

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That's really important. 
And then also, we've extended 

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our relationship with our 
parents into our own podcast. 

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We will be starting our third 
season of stroller coaster, a 

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parenting podcasts very soon. 
So, a number of ways. 

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It's really powerful. 
In my, you know, my joke about 

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the babies with credit cards, 
really powerful. 

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In the sense that you centered, 
the brand on that love 

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relationship between parent and 
child. 

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And so, you see the parents 
looking towards that validation,

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that engagement that they have 
with what's most precious to 

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them. 
Children in seeing your products

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and your Solutions as a part of 
that experience. 

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It's really powerfully 
reinforced. 

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When I look at the work that 
you've been doing to keep people

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moving forward, you can see how 
there's so much love for the 

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brand and the offerings, we what
a worthy consumer, right? 

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You know, brand new life, we're 
creating these things for brand 

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new life. 
And I always try to keep that 

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front and center. 
It's the most worthy consumer 

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law. 
It's really powerful to look at 

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what you've been able to do. 
And then the For the 

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storytelling and the unlimited 
possibilities that we see the 

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brand. 
What's also I find interesting 

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for you is that you grew up 
through design and now you 

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occupy a position in leadership,
that your title is unique. 

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In the sense that you are both 
the chief brand officer and the 

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creative director. 
Why was it important for you to 

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have that distinction as holding
onto the creative director 

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title, and the chief brand 
officer title? 

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I think that's a really powerful
placement to call them out. 

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Out in that way. 
Well, you're right, I still do, 

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but if I'm equal parts, although
I'm not doing as much Hands-On 

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design anymore, I do work with 
my designers every day, but to 

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answer your question, I guess 
the question is, why am I in 

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both? 
I feel like you really can't be 

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regarded as a design expert if 
you're not doing it right every 

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day if you're not keeping your 
feet. 

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And so I try to stay with my 
hands and feet, always firmly 

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planted in that Foundation. 
We're also really can't be 

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regarded as a leader and so 
that's important. 

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The CBO title is for me, it 
wasn't that much different than 

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what I was doing before, except 
for the now, I'm responsible for

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components, like, improving or 
increased our International 

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Business by 50%, so that means 
Biz Dev. 

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It means bringing in new 
retailers like car for from 

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France. 
That was so important and so 

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exciting to learn a new skill 
like that. 

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And I think that c-suite 
position really just provides 

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access to do, what I really love
most, which is learning new 

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things. 
New Cultures new ways to reach 

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our audience. 
Now it's just as interesting to 

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me to work on winning any retail
chain of business, as it is to 

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Rebrand something, but I'll 
never be as interested in 

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working on margins as I am and 
every grand for sure. 

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Definitely those moments. 
But I asked that question. 

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And I love your response and 
answer because I think it's 

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really powerful that in your 
role, even outside of the 

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titles, right? 
In your role, you can see how 

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your wrapping and layering 
design leadership, along with 

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the adjacent. 
To business that are important 

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brand from a management 
standpoint, Global engagement, 

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Corporate social responsibility,
which are all wrapped in. 

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So you're not just having a seat
at the table, you're an active 

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part of it. 
Sometimes it's the simple 

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visuals. 
That say, a lot for us and I 

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know when I'm on your site and 
it says leaders, what's really 

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incredible and encouraging and 
Powerful is DB you as the chief 

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brand officer. 
Creative director. 

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You're on the first line with 
the journal manager, CEO, and 

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CFO clell. 
Well, and that's really powerful

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as we think about organizations 
that are designed driven going 

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forward, your organization isn't
just saying it, you're 

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represented in the executive 
hierarchy as a part of that core

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leadership which I think is 
really powerful. 

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Well, thank you. 
Thank you. 

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Yes. 
Yes. 

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I reporting to the CEO and the 
CEO. 

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I am currently the only female 
in the c-suite, although I think

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we're getting ready to change 
that. 

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Yep, it's interesting. 
You bring up, let's talk a bit 

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about that. 
We did a body of research. 

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This past year, our design POV, 
and one of the As we looked at 

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leadership and looked at the 
composition of the field and we 

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saw a field that had women in 
various stages of the leadership

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with representation that you 
would expect, but we still see 

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the greatest Gap in the CVP and 
executive level. 

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We're in design, still mostly 
men and still mostly older. 

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Men in those Chief, branch 
chief, creative director roles, 

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talk a bit about your experience
and your hopes for diversity in 

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the c-suite from designers. 
Well, fortunately today mentions

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employee base, is more than half
female in our board of 

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directors, is almost half 
female. 

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But as I said, from a 
perspective, I'm the only female

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in the c-suite, but we're really
getting close to changing that. 

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It's no secret that in my prior 
Industries, music and 

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entertainment as well as Tech. 
They're predominantly male. 

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At least at the time I was 
Rising through the ranks and 

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probably still are and in my 
career began in the South so 

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that was even more limiting for 
females. 

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And with that said, I learned a 
lot but I probably haven't 

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changed that much. 
I just changed my processes. 

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Work around those realities but 
also embrace them eventually 

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unfortunately, in a place in the
company and in my career where I

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can be the change, I want to see
for women so I've implemented 

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Global Leadership group. 
Our first year G that meets 

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quarterly III which stands for 
embracing power and enjoy. 

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I am also a strong advocate for 
female leaders in a group that 

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was invited to join called 
Chief, which is primarily only 

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at the c-suites. 
This country female To See 

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Sweets and I'm also on The Fast 
Company. 

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Bored. 
So I do a lot of work around. 

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How do we bring female 
leadership along then only just 

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00:15:06,300 --> 00:15:09,500
in my daily job that these other
organizations and communities 

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and structures, just like 
organizations like Fast Company 

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in terms of design, the design 
field or the design rules, I 

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think it varies depending on if 
you're in house or if you're in 

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an ad agency or the small design
firm. 

291
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But I do think that work was 
successful because I wasn't 

292
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afraid to dig in and really 
analyze the processes that Port 

293
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,300
design in an organization and 
really fair it out. 

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How do we build processes from 
the very beginning is just 

295
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station of a project all the way
through shelf life and make sure

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00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:44,600
that product development gives 
us the time we need and finance 

297
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,600
gives us the time. 
We need in the supply chain has 

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00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,900
the time built into really 
create the best design in an 

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organization and once you really
learned that piece of it, the 

300
00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:55,800
framework, then great design can
happen. 

301
00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,100
Well, I love in our earlier 
conversation, you mentioned, 

302
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,100
there's no No mistake that your 
data driven, right? 

303
00:16:03,100 --> 00:16:06,800
I am and for sure that's 
definitely attribute that to my 

304
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,300
time at do. 
They are definitely data-driven 

305
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,500
and I'm so grateful. 
That was a huge piece of what 

306
00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:16,600
I've learned their the 
importance and the value of data

307
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,500
and how to analyze it. 
And how to infuse it in your 

308
00:16:19,500 --> 00:16:23,100
design process. 
Now, we always think about 

309
00:16:23,100 --> 00:16:26,500
design as being the mechanism 
and risk, we solve problems, 

310
00:16:26,500 --> 00:16:28,600
right? 
But really being a mechanism 

311
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,000
which we saw problems. 
With humans at the heart. 

312
00:16:32,100 --> 00:16:36,200
And so I think it's really nice 
that and great alignment that 

313
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,500
you're in charge of branding 
design, but you also lead your 

314
00:16:39,500 --> 00:16:43,400
company's Corporate social 
responsibility space, right? 

315
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,400
Really is the touch of human. 
How did that creation come about

316
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,600
for you leading design and the 
opportunity for this company to 

317
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,100
show up in the world? 
What excited you to take on that

318
00:16:52,100 --> 00:16:54,600
responsibility? 
I feel like it is a 

319
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:59,300
responsibility when you are in a
leadership position at a 

320
00:16:59,300 --> 00:17:01,100
company. 
Any, I feel like it's 

321
00:17:01,100 --> 00:17:04,500
everybody's responsibility, 
actually from top down. 

322
00:17:04,500 --> 00:17:09,000
You need to figure out a way to 
offset, whatever harm you're 

323
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,300
doing in the world in terms of 
your Global footprint, that's 

324
00:17:11,300 --> 00:17:14,700
your responsibility. 
So when I started setting up CSR

325
00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:18,099
at munchkin and the first pillar
was really Animal Welfare. 

326
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,200
That part was easy for me. 
Anyway, that piece of it came 

327
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,200
very naturally because our CEO 
is very concerned about 

328
00:17:24,300 --> 00:17:27,900
Blackfish had seen that movie 
and then that kind of net led us

329
00:17:27,900 --> 00:17:31,400
into really learning more. 
About orcas. 

330
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,800
And then all of this work that 
we're doing around the whale 

331
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Sanctuary project, you can read 
about it, on our website, came 

332
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,500
organically, and we actually had
an orca in our most successful 

333
00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:42,400
product line of back my called 
sea. 

334
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,500
Squirts, and it was performing 
really well and always has. 

335
00:17:45,500 --> 00:17:48,800
So he took that out are Co just 
said, yeah I'm not going to 

336
00:17:49,100 --> 00:17:52,100
support this. 
An orca really doesn't belong in

337
00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:55,200
a bathtub which was really an 
analogy, more for SeaWorld and 

338
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,700
places like that that or human 
entertainment. 

339
00:17:57,700 --> 00:18:01,600
Use animal for profit. 
So, So we took that out and I 

340
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,700
can't tell you almost overnight 
with the messaging from TMZ and 

341
00:18:04,700 --> 00:18:08,700
Peeta that we got great feedback
and lots of exposure as well as 

342
00:18:08,700 --> 00:18:11,700
offering a million dollars. 
For one of the whales that was 

343
00:18:11,700 --> 00:18:13,800
being held captive. 
I mean, there were a lot of 

344
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,200
initiatives that we didn't put 
into play, but that media caught

345
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,200
on, so that kind of led into 
other avenues. 

346
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,500
Like I fought and things that we
were naturally interested in as 

347
00:18:23,500 --> 00:18:26,700
a part of teaching children 
empathy, really starts with 

348
00:18:26,700 --> 00:18:29,400
animals. 
So that was very organic for me.

349
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,300
I'm a Huge animal rights 
activists. 

350
00:18:31,300 --> 00:18:34,500
So it wasn't that much of a 
stretch for me, but then we went

351
00:18:34,500 --> 00:18:38,000
into other pillars of CSR that 
were definitely more, natural 

352
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,000
sustainability, of course, and 
then education with radiant 

353
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,300
colors. 
And lots of times. 

354
00:18:42,300 --> 00:18:45,200
These opportunities just pop up,
they present themselves in. 

355
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:49,000
It's up to you to embrace it and
figure out how you're going to 

356
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,500
initiate a program in your 
company that can support. 

357
00:18:51,500 --> 00:18:53,700
That. 
What advice do you have for 

358
00:18:53,700 --> 00:18:55,700
leaders? 
When you're looking for a proper

359
00:18:55,700 --> 00:18:59,200
partner in the space, the 
Partnerships sometimes you 

360
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:00,900
capture. 
Sure the lightning in the bottle

361
00:19:00,900 --> 00:19:02,600
with the Partnerships and other 
times. 

362
00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:03,900
You kind of struggle in this 
space. 

363
00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:07,000
What advice do you have for? 
If you're a brand or your design

364
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:08,600
leading you're looking for a 
good partner. 

365
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,700
Well, probably infusing the 
product in some way with the 

366
00:19:13,700 --> 00:19:18,200
philanthropy is the best because
obviously you're in a company 

367
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:22,700
need for growth and so gross can
come in any number of ways. 

368
00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:26,100
And so for instance, the iPhone 
initiative that we have their 

369
00:19:26,100 --> 00:19:28,700
National Conference and we'll 
all pair, we have our number one

370
00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:33,100
category, which is kept And so 
it just seemed natural to try to

371
00:19:33,100 --> 00:19:36,000
infuse those two at least when I
was thinking about this. 

372
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:41,200
And so I would tell designers to
look at ways that things that 

373
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,400
are important are should be 
important to companies and to 

374
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,000
people in general to human 
beings. 

375
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,800
If there's a way to infuse it 
with a partnership in your 

376
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,000
company, that makes sense 
because obviously you're going 

377
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,100
to have to go and present A 
business plan for this no matter

378
00:19:53,100 --> 00:19:56,400
what, no matter if it's just a 
cost or if it's actually a 

379
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,300
stream of Revenue that you can 
create, you have to know how to 

380
00:19:59,300 --> 00:20:00,800
formulate. 
Write a business plan. 

381
00:20:00,900 --> 00:20:02,500
How does the company get a bit 
of that house? 

382
00:20:02,500 --> 00:20:05,200
The earth going to benefit, you 
have to have those very well 

383
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,000
thought through. 
I have a question for you since 

384
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,900
we're talking about data and is 
extension to metrics and 

385
00:20:11,900 --> 00:20:15,000
measurement, you know, when I 
look at the goal of much of 

386
00:20:15,008 --> 00:20:18,100
these, the mission, to be the 
world's most loved baby, 

387
00:20:18,100 --> 00:20:19,800
Lifestyle brand. 
Right? 

388
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,900
How do you today capture a 
quantify? 

389
00:20:22,900 --> 00:20:24,700
What it means to be loved for 
your brand? 

390
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,300
That's such a great question. 
I always love answering that, 

391
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,900
and I do go back. 
Be honest dialogue that. 

392
00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:34,100
We are having with our consumers
daily, we know what they're 

393
00:20:34,100 --> 00:20:36,600
thinking, they're very vocal, 
they don't hold back. 

394
00:20:36,700 --> 00:20:39,600
So I think listening if you're 
not a great listener as a 

395
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,800
designer, you're probably not 
going to succeed in this 

396
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:44,800
business. 
You have to listen for sure. 

397
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,500
The first place is probably a 
well-developed brief, right? 

398
00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:49,000
You don't do anything with that 
listening. 

399
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:54,000
So in order to be the most loved
baby Lifestyle brand, which is 

400
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,000
always going to be a goal that 
we probably never, there's 

401
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,400
probably no true capabilities. 
API for that. 

402
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,800
I mean you can be number one 
which we are. 

403
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,300
This is sustaining the number 
one position that we are and all

404
00:21:05,300 --> 00:21:09,000
of these categories. 
No, because we run like, you 

405
00:21:09,008 --> 00:21:12,000
know, a shampoo brand or a 
deodorant brand, that you were 

406
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,300
loyal consumer of your whole 
life. 

407
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,000
Parents are always cycling in 
and out of our brand, once their

408
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:22,800
children age out at age five or 
six, so we're in constant motion

409
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,300
with this, which is why we've 
worded it. 

410
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,200
We're on a mission because we 
know we can never stop because 

411
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,000
baby, Being born every day and 
they're coming in and out of our

412
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,300
grant, if that makes sense. 
No it makes a lot of sense. 

413
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,500
What do you see a lot of pass 
through in terms of Word of 

414
00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:41,300
Mouth in terms of parent? 
Handoff it's been such a great 

415
00:21:41,300 --> 00:21:43,800
brand honey and now I'm going to
pass it on to my brother or my 

416
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,400
sister who has kids. 
I think that Munchkin because 

417
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,900
we've been around for 30 years, 
it is top of mind for a lot of 

418
00:21:50,900 --> 00:21:54,100
reasons, obviously incredibly 
beautifully designed durable 

419
00:21:54,100 --> 00:21:59,300
products, but also now we know 
from data that parents do not 

420
00:21:59,300 --> 00:22:03,200
engage Age with Brands is easily
anymore based off of well my mom

421
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,500
always used. 
It's really what is that brand 

422
00:22:05,500 --> 00:22:09,100
doing for the world Beyond 
making a profit which is why our

423
00:22:09,100 --> 00:22:11,700
CSR story. 
So important and integral to who

424
00:22:11,700 --> 00:22:15,100
we are and how we present 
ourselves it really is and you 

425
00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:18,200
can see it it's and I love it. 
Centered around your role. 

426
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,500
It's equally talks about design 
in your fort looking space, but 

427
00:22:22,500 --> 00:22:26,500
it's your insights, your mission
and the good work you're doing, 

428
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,900
you can see it's always 
reinforced when I look At the 

429
00:22:29,900 --> 00:22:32,500
brand, I'll ask this question 
because this is, this is a fun 

430
00:22:32,500 --> 00:22:35,100
question that you're not 
supposed to answer, right? 

431
00:22:35,100 --> 00:22:36,500
You're not supposed to pick 
favorites. 

432
00:22:36,900 --> 00:22:40,200
What's been your most 
surprisingly favorite product 

433
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,700
since you've been there with the
product that makes you smile? 

434
00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:45,500
Yes, I think everybody in the 
company knows. 

435
00:22:45,500 --> 00:22:49,700
I'm not, I'm not sure. 
I think I love our NightLight. 

436
00:22:49,700 --> 00:22:52,700
It's an owl night light, and I 
just love the design. 

437
00:22:52,700 --> 00:22:55,100
So comforting, I actually have 
it in my room. 

438
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,900
It's a little owl, and of 
course, it's an animal, which 

439
00:22:57,900 --> 00:22:59,500
makes me love it more. 
But it's why did? 

440
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,200
Orange and blue. 
And it's beautifully lit. 

441
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,600
And it's just really warm and 
comforting and kids love it. 

442
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,600
And parents are fine with it in 
their and their guest rooms and 

443
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,500
around the house. 
It's sort of the Swedish Danish 

444
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,500
origin and its Timeless and 
never goes out of style. 

445
00:23:15,500 --> 00:23:17,900
So I that's my favorite product.
That's awesome. 

446
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,500
Is this the light my way? 
NightLight is this the one? 

447
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,700
Yes. 
Kid, for those who are 

448
00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:25,300
listening. 
This is probably the most 

449
00:23:25,300 --> 00:23:27,700
adorable night, like you will 
ever see. 

450
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,100
Wow. 
I love hearing that, this is 

451
00:23:31,100 --> 00:23:34,400
awesome as a company. 
You've been around for 30 years.

452
00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:37,800
Do you ever have conversations 
with the smaller children, who 

453
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,100
are now larger children turn 
adults, who have an experience 

454
00:23:41,100 --> 00:23:42,900
with munchkin things? 
They remember from their 

455
00:23:42,900 --> 00:23:45,600
childhood. 
I have not had that conversation

456
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,600
yet. 
What an amazing little tidbit of

457
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,000
Peter work. 
You just gave me. 

458
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,400
I love that. 
It's great idea to be helpful 

459
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,600
but I think about it. 
You said it hit me when you said

460
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,900
you've been around for 30 years.
Like that's enough time for 

461
00:23:57,900 --> 00:24:00,000
those two cycle. 
We all have these Murray's of 

462
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,300
our childhood. 
And I wonder how much munchkin 

463
00:24:02,300 --> 00:24:05,300
is a part of those memories? 
Well, there's my next campaign. 

464
00:24:05,300 --> 00:24:07,300
Thank you. 
Thanks so much. 

465
00:24:07,300 --> 00:24:11,500
You just did my heavy lifting 
for me anytime. 

466
00:24:11,500 --> 00:24:14,700
So when I'm not podcasting, I 
get to have a flashback to my 

467
00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:18,000
marketing and brand days. 
This is what I think about your 

468
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,500
role. 
What do you get excited about? 

469
00:24:20,500 --> 00:24:22,700
Or what do you get optimistic 
about? 

470
00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:26,100
When you think about the future 
of, not just munchkin, but the 

471
00:24:26,100 --> 00:24:30,400
future of design and design as a
leading part of What do you see 

472
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:31,900
today? 
That makes you excited. 

473
00:24:32,100 --> 00:24:34,900
I have to unpack that question 
that there was there, a multi 

474
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,000
multi pieces and answers for 
that question. 

475
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:43,800
I love how many ways a designer 
can manifest everything. 

476
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,700
We know in our grade, add in 
this role, you know, in a CBO 

477
00:24:47,700 --> 00:24:52,300
were all or for me, there's so 
many different ways to grow and 

478
00:24:52,300 --> 00:24:55,800
expand this when I was starting 
out a designer, I never for once

479
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,200
in my wildest dreams thought, 
oh, one point in my career I 

480
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,100
will Be redesigning an entire 
Lobby and all the conference 

481
00:25:03,100 --> 00:25:06,900
rooms for my corporation. 
That is something that is 

482
00:25:06,900 --> 00:25:09,900
completely doable. 
Intangible for designers. 

483
00:25:09,900 --> 00:25:12,900
Today, there are a lot of 
different ways to grow your 

484
00:25:12,900 --> 00:25:16,500
skills, and as long as you're 
interested in, you show a skill 

485
00:25:16,500 --> 00:25:21,100
set, this field, graphic design,
packaging world that I went into

486
00:25:21,100 --> 00:25:25,400
is now, so many multi layers. 
You can be a social media 

487
00:25:25,500 --> 00:25:28,300
expert, you can be the digital 
expert. 

488
00:25:28,300 --> 00:25:30,700
You can make sure that your 
They'll maybe more on the 

489
00:25:30,708 --> 00:25:34,700
traditional side of editorial, 
there's so many Avenues and ways

490
00:25:34,700 --> 00:25:38,400
to bring design to life. 
I'm very excited about it and 

491
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,100
I'm excited that this thank God 
for Steve Jobs of the world, 

492
00:25:42,100 --> 00:25:44,800
right? 
Where design really no longer 

493
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,700
has to be in gendered as a 
value. 

494
00:25:46,700 --> 00:25:50,000
And most companies you know I 
spent a lot of my career trying 

495
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:54,500
to engender design as a value 
and show how that actually does 

496
00:25:54,700 --> 00:25:57,000
have a huge impact on Roi, 
right? 

497
00:25:57,500 --> 00:25:58,500
Right. 
It's so true. 

498
00:25:58,500 --> 00:26:01,400
And we wanted The first areas 
that came out in our research, 

499
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,100
this past year was looking at 
having measurable data to show 

500
00:26:05,100 --> 00:26:09,500
how companies that were actively
leading with design as a 

501
00:26:09,500 --> 00:26:13,100
strategy mindset, as an 
operational mindset as a driver 

502
00:26:13,100 --> 00:26:15,700
in their organizations. 
Were outperforming those who 

503
00:26:15,700 --> 00:26:19,400
didn't and it was clear every 
level of accompanying 

504
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,500
organization. 
And I think that that's 

505
00:26:21,500 --> 00:26:25,400
something to your words that we 
offer advice to those entering 

506
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,700
the field to know that there are
no limits and only 

507
00:26:28,700 --> 00:26:30,900
opportunities. 
Being designed ripping. 

508
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,300
Yes, I actually try to give 
advice to students and emerging 

509
00:26:35,300 --> 00:26:39,700
designers and by saying, my 
advice is to read just read more

510
00:26:39,700 --> 00:26:42,900
than your feeds read novels. 
So the first place to start that

511
00:26:42,900 --> 00:26:46,400
really teaches you your I love I
love that against say that again

512
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,300
for us TV, read more than you 
read more than your feeds. 

513
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,600
I say that to my designers every
day, read a novel that teaches 

514
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,300
you character development that 
teaches you how to build 

515
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,700
emotional connectivity and 
empathy. 

516
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,100
And you know, the more you 
understand, appreciate Language 

517
00:27:00,100 --> 00:27:02,700
and had a verbally articulate, 
your thoughts. 

518
00:27:02,700 --> 00:27:05,700
The easier it is to learn how to
build a framework for the design

519
00:27:05,700 --> 00:27:08,200
is supported. 
And I find that it's harder for 

520
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,700
designers to read these days and
are just used to scrolling and 

521
00:27:10,700 --> 00:27:12,500
taken in a very few lines of 
text. 

522
00:27:12,500 --> 00:27:15,200
So sometimes when I get that 
back in copy, I'm like what what

523
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,300
is this? 
This is not descriptive. 

524
00:27:17,300 --> 00:27:20,600
This isn't a telling me anything
that I need to know about this 

525
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,400
product. 
And why do I care about this? 

526
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,900
So read my advice is to really 
read more. 

527
00:27:26,500 --> 00:27:29,300
I think it's incredibly 
important advice for everyone to

528
00:27:29,300 --> 00:27:32,900
kind of Read beyond the spaces 
and I think about your path 

529
00:27:32,900 --> 00:27:35,200
again. 
Coming from the English major 

530
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,200
but been going into music and 
having the opportunity where we 

531
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,700
see some of the best 
storytelling in nature and 

532
00:27:41,708 --> 00:27:46,900
structure of songs. 
A great song is always a great 

533
00:27:46,900 --> 00:27:49,300
story. 
So I am really grateful that I 

534
00:27:49,300 --> 00:27:52,000
started out my career in music 
really. 

535
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:57,800
It was so important to me to 
really understand how to build 

536
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,000
emotional connectivity. 
There's nothing better To do 

537
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,100
that. 
Then a songwriter and music. 

538
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,900
When do you get a chance? 
You mentioned this before? 

539
00:28:04,900 --> 00:28:09,500
And I've talked to Studio leads 
and other cheek design offices 

540
00:28:09,500 --> 00:28:12,400
and they talk about the growing 
up in the business and the 

541
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:16,300
leadership. 
But leaving some of the Hands-On

542
00:28:16,500 --> 00:28:18,600
creative work that they've done 
before and you mentioned that 

543
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,400
you still get a chance to be 
involvement, what was the last 

544
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:22,900
thing? 
You had a chance to roll up your

545
00:28:22,900 --> 00:28:26,000
sleeves and and touch as a 
Creative Design through this 

546
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,400
every day though, been a saint. 
Might be an outlier here. 

547
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,600
Okay. 
That's that's a good chair 

548
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:32,800
along. 
I was obviously, you know, 

549
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,500
formally trained at Art Center 
and the best part about that for

550
00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:40,100
me and also the scariest part 
was the daily crib, you are 

551
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:45,000
putting your work up in front of
your peers for feedback and that

552
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,400
could be painful. 
It was certainly painful for me 

553
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,700
but also the best way to grow 
and so I do that almost every 

554
00:28:51,700 --> 00:28:54,400
day with my design team. 
I want to see where you are. 

555
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,600
Let's all talk together about. 
Is this meeting that goal? 

556
00:28:57,700 --> 00:29:01,400
And if you don't have that open,
I log in you're not processing 

557
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,900
every single day. 
I mean, I'm always growing with 

558
00:29:03,900 --> 00:29:08,000
them and I can't imagine titling
out of that. 

559
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,000
If that makes any sense, I don't
know. 

560
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,400
My worth to accompany my value 
to a company is not only 

561
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,000
bringing a heartbeat but it is 
using everything. 

562
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,500
I've known through training and 
lots of experience, and lots of 

563
00:29:22,500 --> 00:29:24,800
definitely mistakes along the 
way. 

564
00:29:24,900 --> 00:29:28,000
It's engendering that butts 
imparting that on feature 

565
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,500
designers, and I would not give 
that That part out because I'm 

566
00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:34,200
not going to be the greatest 
value to a company unless I am 

567
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,900
utilizing that and oh wait and 
to answer your questions but I 

568
00:29:37,900 --> 00:29:41,900
think the last piece I touched, 
I think it was yesterday on a 

569
00:29:41,900 --> 00:29:44,100
social media. 
Post that I was having 

570
00:29:44,100 --> 00:29:48,400
difficulty with sort of working 
through and seeing here, this is

571
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,100
kind of how I see it every 
thought about this composition 

572
00:29:51,100 --> 00:29:54,600
and please eliminate these 
Stars, I don't know what it is. 

573
00:29:54,700 --> 00:29:56,700
The designers I'm working with. 
Now, they're all sort of 

574
00:29:56,700 --> 00:29:59,500
fascinated with putting stars 
all over everything, so yeah. 

575
00:29:59,700 --> 00:30:01,400
Like, what is this fascination 
with stars? 

576
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,700
I put my hands over things. 
Go look how much better that 

577
00:30:03,700 --> 00:30:05,700
looks without that. 
What is the purpose? 

578
00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:07,800
You know. 
So everything has to have a 

579
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,300
purpose on the page. 
That's a wonderful story that 

580
00:30:10,300 --> 00:30:12,400
was spot-on. 
I just wanted to get a chance to

581
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,800
share kind of coming back to 
that experience, right? 

582
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,500
Because we spend our time in, we
talked about you at the sea 

583
00:30:17,500 --> 00:30:21,400
level, but there's still a part 
of being there with your team 

584
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,300
and being a part of the creative
process that I think it's 

585
00:30:24,300 --> 00:30:27,200
important that you don't lose. 
And that's a wonderful example. 

586
00:30:27,300 --> 00:30:29,500
Thank you, I will know. 
I will not send you anything. 

587
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:35,000
Thing with stars, my friend. 
You're funny Vinny but as we 

588
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,700
kind of look ahead and you've 
given some great advice before, 

589
00:30:37,900 --> 00:30:40,800
what advice do you have two 
designers who are just coming in

590
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,300
the field today? 
You lead teams that have these 

591
00:30:43,300 --> 00:30:46,300
larger agenda than ideas and 
programs that can be kind of 

592
00:30:46,300 --> 00:30:47,900
daunting. 
If you come in as a new 

593
00:30:47,900 --> 00:30:50,200
designer, what advice would you 
have for someone? 

594
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:55,700
Listen, learn how to listen, and
also ask a lot of questions, 

595
00:30:55,700 --> 00:30:58,900
like I said, the pathology of my
career has been the question. 

596
00:30:58,900 --> 00:31:01,900
Why and ask if you don't know 
something, if you're not clear, 

597
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,700
On your corporate goals if 
you're not clear on the goals of

598
00:31:04,700 --> 00:31:07,100
your leader that's leading. 
If that's your our direct your 

599
00:31:07,100 --> 00:31:10,000
creative director, whoever that 
is you really need to know those

600
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,500
goals. 
And then you sort of build your 

601
00:31:12,500 --> 00:31:17,900
framework for Success around 
that your job is really to you 

602
00:31:17,900 --> 00:31:21,400
have a lot of different jobs as 
a designer but the first job of 

603
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,700
any employee is really to make 
sure that the department is 

604
00:31:24,700 --> 00:31:27,900
succeeding, whether that's 
winning Awards, which I'm a True

605
00:31:27,900 --> 00:31:31,500
Believer and to make sure that 
you're checking your making sure

606
00:31:31,500 --> 00:31:33,600
you're not just trying Can you 
yourself that your colleagues 

607
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,900
and your peers in the industry? 
Also, acknowledge that what 

608
00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:39,300
you're doing is good? 
But I feel like designers to 

609
00:31:39,500 --> 00:31:42,200
some of the unfortunately, not 
in my department or not in my 

610
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,500
company. 
But what I've seen is and what 

611
00:31:44,500 --> 00:31:48,400
I've been hearing is just, like 
I said, people are used to 

612
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,100
speeds and feeds, and so 
learning how to create design 

613
00:31:52,100 --> 00:31:56,000
that's Timeless, rather than 
trendy, and really understanding

614
00:31:56,100 --> 00:31:58,900
your purpose, and your all, and 
your value. 

615
00:31:58,900 --> 00:32:01,100
And what it is that you are 
hired to do. 

616
00:32:01,100 --> 00:32:03,100
I would always get Rarity around
that. 

617
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,400
Well, I think that's incredible 
advice as we start and it's hard

618
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:11,000
to believe that we're at the end
of our conversation, but I 

619
00:32:11,008 --> 00:32:13,300
really DB feel like it's truly a
beginning. 

620
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,400
And you've given the advice to 
find a good novel and read, find

621
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,800
a good song in wrap yourself in 
it and always be open to 

622
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,100
listening kind of what I take 
away from. 

623
00:32:23,100 --> 00:32:26,100
Stop our secrets of being an 
incredible designer. 

624
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,000
Great. 
I'm glad those are the key 

625
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,200
takeaways for sure. 
I couldn't have a better 

626
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:34,300
summation, so thank you, honey. 
Sharing the experience and 

627
00:32:34,300 --> 00:32:39,400
really your role as a leader and
in modeling, what it means to be

628
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:43,000
able to combine your true design
adjacency and even more 

629
00:32:43,100 --> 00:32:49,800
combining design, as practice, 
as we push in aiga design as a 

630
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,900
strategic advantage and design 
as positive Catalyst. 

631
00:32:54,100 --> 00:32:57,200
When I think about your role, as
Chief brand officer, creative 

632
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,300
director, and head of CSR, you 
were really the living 

633
00:33:00,300 --> 00:33:01,900
embodiment of what we're pushing
for. 

634
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,000
Car for aiga. 
So I thank you for the work 

635
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,800
you're doing and your leadership
in the industry and being a 

636
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,300
guest today with me on design 
adjacent, it's been a pleasure 

637
00:33:11,300 --> 00:33:13,300
and we run it definitely talk 
more. 

638
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,700
Thank you, Benny. 
It's been a true pleasure. 

639
00:33:15,700 --> 00:33:18,000
I appreciate it. 
Like I said, it's so interesting

640
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,300
to come full circle for my first
AIG membership card to now being

641
00:33:21,300 --> 00:33:23,500
a guest, I'm really honored and 
thrilled. 

642
00:33:23,500 --> 00:33:26,700
Thank you. 
I am delighted to have you as a 

643
00:33:26,708 --> 00:33:31,000
part a leader in our community 
and thank you for joining us and

644
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,700
thank you all for Listening 
today on our podcast design 

645
00:33:34,700 --> 00:33:38,600
adjacent where we talked about 
and explore the power and impact

646
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,400
of design both today. 
And tomorrow, I'm your host PDF 

647
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,700
Johnson, and this is been our 
podcast with DB. 

648
00:33:45,100 --> 00:33:49,000
Thank you show notes for this 
episode will be available on AIG

649
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,000
a.org. 
Please subscribe to our show on 

650
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:56,300
anchor Apple, podcasts Google 
play Spotify or wherever you get

651
00:33:56,300 --> 00:33:59,600
your podcast. 
Aiga is designed adjacent 

652
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,700
podcasts. 
And its contents are the 

653
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,400
Copyright of aiga the 
professional association for 

654
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:10,300
design All Rights Reserved, any 
redistribution or reproduction 

655
00:34:10,300 --> 00:34:13,699
of part or all of the contents 
in any form is prohibited 

656
00:34:13,699 --> 00:34:16,400
without aig's Express written 
permission. 

657
00:34:17,100 --> 00:34:19,500
My name is Li Xian zhuang until 
next time.