Even in Stephen sondheim's passing.
Remember going to a shoot with him in thinking, like, I can't
believe I'm standing here. Like this is crazy.
And there's so many stories like that, you know, whatever you're
doing. It just sort of becomes part of
your day-to-day. The year that rolling sounds
like as it is what I do. You not thinking about, but
then, when you look back, you like welfare was a really cool
part of my life, wasn't it? Hello, and welcome to design
adjacent the podcast that explores the Nexus of design,
though. Both today and tomorrow.
I'm your host, Ben EF Johnson. And today, our special guest is
none other than Gayle, Anderson scholar de scholar.
I laugh, but it's so true cheer BFA designed in advertising and
SBA and has been director of the Visual Arts.
Press. She has served as art director
for Rolling Stone, creative director, and designer.
Boston, Globe, Sunday magazine, in vintage books.
She started at VA and really shaped young and emerging Minds
for the last 30 years. She's a foster kid looks 15,
books makes you a scholar. My bread on design, typography
and illustration with the great Steven Hiller as well.
That's a scholar, the it's-- The Scholar.
Yeah. I will agree with you on that.
I'm just a sidekick. So you're so much more.
And as you'll see today, we're going to have a great fun
conversation Anderson, also served on the citizens stamp
advisory committee for the US Postal Service and the advisory
boards for poster house, in the one club for creativity.
She is a distinguish aiga medalist.
Yes, and a recipient of the cooper-hewitt smithsonian's
Lifetime Achievement Award for it.
Her work is represented in the Library of Congress in the
Milton Glaser archives and in the Smithsonian National Museum
of African American history and culture, the mocked.
I am glad to welcome Gail to our podcast.
Welcome you thank you. Thank you.
Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.
Well, it's wonderful to be able to sit down and and have a
conversation about you, your work.
And about our thoughts on the future, as we think about design
and its impact for our audience are listening.
I love to give a little bit about what first brought you to
design. I love to draw as a kid.
I loved spec and 16 magazines. I okay.
Love the Jackson 5 and made scrapbooks.
I have one here that's falling apart.
And there's one at the Museum in d.c.
They didn't fall apart. My Michael Jackson scrapbook
verse, I loved making stuff. And my high school art teacher
told me about a school, SVA School of Visual Arts that she
was taking night classes, at at the time in silk screen and
click Rafi, and encouraged me to pursue a career in design in
thanks to her, I did. And yeah, I just, I'd like to
making things and I Added to work at spec or 16 magazines,
right? Those with why I loved as a kid.
And, of course, those weren't around anymore as an adult.
But ironically, when I worked at Rolling Stone, it was at the
same address where those magazines.
Wow, been 7:45. Fifth Avenue.
When I start out to equate this address.
It's like it's the same address of spec and 16.
So my I come full circle so early in your career that seems
like there's this connection between design and music.
Definitely design entertainment in general.
But yeah, music, both bi music. But again, based on Elton John
and right, you know, all the stuff I liked is as a little
kid, The Partridge Family and The Osmond Brothers, but
definitely the Jackson 5 budget. I'll ask you the question.
Who was your second favorite Jackson?
Well, it's easy to say Jermaine because that would make sense.
But I had a kind of had a thing for Marlon.
I didn't expect you to give me. Marlon Marlon.
Yeah, not Jackie. Not Tito Marlin.
Who is ended up being the most handsome of the Jacksons, so,
Who makes your he knows? Yeah, but please pass that on.
So pass it on. So, one of the things that I'm
always curious about is we kind of go through our professional
journey, is what brings us to the interest, but then when was
the moment that you really felt to her designer, but who move
from kind of exploring the things you love to do to waking
up their day and saying, you know, I'm a designer when I
started working. At random house when I
graduated, when I would hang around Louisville.
He's office in the evening as she worked on designing wine
labels and write all of the fancy book covers that she did.
And really getting to know her there after work in the evening
and hearing about what she was working on, what she wanted to
do. That is like, this is really
cool. And I had amazing instructors.
I had price shares, my portfolio teacher, and, and all these
Karen Goldberg, just all these great people, but it, In some
ways it was being in the first job right?
Sitting there and watching somebody is brilliant as sleaze
doing stuff and the people who work with her but really her was
like, oh my goodness! You're going of amazing, aren't
you? So that's a long time ago.
That's 84 85. Yeah.
There's like this is what I do for a living like and maybe I
can be as good as her one day or But at least we work for the
same company, we work down the hall from each other.
That's that seemed good enough for me.
So yeah, it's kind of that powerful moment of of being able
to live and touch and engage with with those who you see.
I had a we were talking before about a friend of mine and
Professor, Floyd Coleman who taught art history of the
scholar. He would always talk about being
able to pick your ancestors. In the take the people around
you, that influence how you think and and how you grow as a
professional and it sounds like having that space of being in
the room and having that input helped to shape your early
career, and who you grew into as a designer absolutely.
Having having these tremendous mentors who were so patient, and
wonderful and willing to invest the time in, in the designer who
didn't have the technical skills that certainly Lee some of my
other classmates had, I didn't have the amazing hand skills
when that was. Saying this, right?
Yeah, I'd learned to do a mechanical.
I learned to get good at stuff, but I had to learn to do that,
right? In ways that I think maybe
others it was it sort of came more naturally or or they were
able to intern when they were in school.
Get a foot in the door, a little quicker.
I worked at a nursing home when I was in school.
So I didn't didn't have the Glamorous in school experience
that others did because I couldn't afford to intern for
free, which was right was sort of the norm at the time.
So how did that experience shape your own role as, as a teacher?
You can a thinking about, you know, your experience growing up
and studying and working in a field in a profession that
wasn't directly aligned but How did that shape your view of what
your students are going through over the years?
It certainly makes me root for the underdog more and it makes
me look at the people in the middle who need the extra
encouragement, right, and need the Boost, and need the extra
time. It's not like projecting myself
into every kid, I see. But I want to make sure that
those folks don't get left behind.
That they've got as many opportunities as the folks who
have a bit of an easier ride. So I think you know, one of the
things we talk a lot about is just the power and beauty of
design as a profession, but the ways in which we can all work to
open the aperture a bit so that everyone has an opportunity to
participate in the profession. And it's interesting you
speaking about having a space for people to grow who may not.
Have the same path that's been laid out for them to be able to
grow, and find a space, and find their way in design.
What, what advice do you give to students?
Today that are thinking about jumping into the profession, but
may not have come from an environment, in which, their
designers in their family, or to the left or right of them.
When I meet families, now, meet parents at events.
It's My job to encourage them to let their kid.
Pursue this path, right there are success stories, and I guess
I'm kind of one of them that bright this works.
And it's all about working really hard in, it's not even
being the best. It's just being really committed
rolling to help. Open to learning.
It's about about not giving up. It's about working hard and that
if this is something, your child really wants, right?
Go let them go for it. That it's not.
Like Commercial Art in the 70s when I was in high school or the
early 80s and Associated, like, it was so little fuzzy.
Like, what do we do at the end of all this right now?
It's like you what your kid wants to do is really valued and
there's a place for them and what they do is really necessary
in, so let them go for it and they'll be okay, you know, they
won't be living with you forever there, right?
Make money and get out of the house.
So, They're like, really, really?
She's really gonna leave. So maybe not right away, but
eventually so, but, you know, to your point, that's so important
because, you know, many of the conversations I've had with
design leaders, and we think about our own individual pass.
There's always that moment with your family and, and convincing
them that you're doing something that's different from what they
may have experienced and that you're going to be okay, having
that reinforcement, I think is powerful, especially when we
look at all. It is and you know, new
designers who are coming from communities and families that
design may not have been present and that art may not have been
present. All looks absolutely, I was so
lucky that my folks were like, well this is what you want to
do. And so yeah, you think you'll
make money like map. I'd fix that one.
And I wanted to go to to art school and not regular four-year
liberal arts school and they went along with it.
I was really lucky that. That it wasn't.
Well, we want you to do this first or right?
I think they were just happy we for my brother and sister and
myself that we were going to college.
So I was like, okay, this is good enough.
This doesn't work yet, you know in the end.
Remember when I had my first job the Random House job that was
making so little and my dad was like wait what if?
So, he really will be here forever.
Like no. No, no, no, don't do it.
Please have faith. Have faith in they did and I'm
so lucky they did. You think about your career and
the spaces you've been, in both for-profit, media education
nonprofit. What are some of the takeaways
you give for students of color coming in the same?
Hmm. Saying back down the same path.
Well, I never saw myself there. It was a very small pool of
talent. That was people of color when I
was in school. And I think times are changing
for the better on that front and we're paying more attention.
And we need to get more Educators involved, more people
of color teaching, right? More designers saying, I'll take
a few hours for Girl, come here in the evening and teach.
I want the students to see all kinds of people in the
classroom. And for a student of color, to
see a black instructor standing there, right?
Brown instructor, whatever it's really powerful, and I never
gave it any thought because I never expected it, right?
Because it just wasn't at this like, okay.
It's just, you know, it never occurred to me that there would
be a black instructor standing there because they're There
never were there. Weren't in high school, there,
weren't in grammar school, or so.
Why would there be in college and black designer?
What? Right.
So now, students expect, better expect more and we have to, we
have to create these classrooms that that you're seeing all
kinds of representation, not just from the students, which
were also working on, but from The Faculty, so if a faculty and
then yeah, I love impacts the points of view.
In the work that we see, absolutely, he's coming in.
You know, it isn't it? A more interesting environment
to be in an office or a school or whatever where you've got all
different kinds of people, you know, certainly in the years
that I've been around SVA and seeing the changes.
I've met kids from all over the world and places and even heard
of before, you know, and I love that my worldview is expanded.
And I've met all these people my Mm, and I, we constantly talk
about this statement that great ideas come from everywhere.
Yeah, and it's really kind of the way in which we show up in
the world and we approach our team members those in our
community and around us and just really refreshing.
Stacy, say to look for the opportunity that great ideas,
come from everywhere. Hmm.
When the things that I've been really excited about for us in
the past two years in the pandemic, is the expansion of
Our Global engagement and membership at aiga.
Hmm. By doing podcasts or more
virtual content. We've kind of opened up the
barrier and I love when our conversation start up and we
see, hello. I'm shouting out from Israel.
I'm shouting out from drinking and I'm shouting out from South
Africa. It's been incredibly refreshing
because this moment has created opportunity and I mean, I was up
safe for the year and a half and And I attended things while I
was making dinner, right? I'd sit in on something from
letterform archive or it's like, this is great.
Like I never did that before because I was too busy and I was
too lazy or right. I don't want to walk all the way
over there. I just want to go home.
You know, I want to go over to TDC tonight, even though it'd be
really nice to see everyone or oh, yeah Gia.
I was just tuning in as if this was great and tuning in and it's
funny. We say that because We had all
the, especially for those who have proximity, right?
We had all the right reasons that we could attend, but we
wouldn't attend, right? And then, thinking of the window
that's open and the ability to record.
We we make all of our activities available.
So any time you can pick up and dial in and the comments and
feedback we've seen have been incredible, but people are
really embracing a truly Global profession.
If ideas, that are flowing, we're seeing that one of the
things that you've been active in in really, appreciate has
been your role in helping us judge and shape.
Our aiga 50 books, 50 comments, competition.
I think we're going to see some influx of a more Global
competition applications. Just my guess.
Yep. Absolutely.
Yep. Judging it did a few years ago
up at Yale and it was wonderful to have all the books in my hand
and right. And you know, don't take this
home, put my back but it was, it was actually just as cool to sit
there and look on my own time right now in a way that you
can't if you're in a space for a finite period.
So it's like, okay. I'm watching TV.
Let me going to look at some of these books tonight.
So the way we judge is changing because if any of you have judge
before, you know that the second day a judging or like you know,
or by the end of the day your Looking at things differently
than you are at the beginning and doing it this way.
Virtually sort of more fair in a way because you're like, okay.
I've got an hour of energy. Let me do some work.
I've got an hour here. Let me do some sort of right?
You're not worn down by the end of looking at everything.
So I think the focus I love that.
Yeah. I do have this question.
So you've been able to serve as a judge in over multiple times,
but what surprises you the most in the entries of this past past
year or so, I mean, this the sound so they keep it how
Consistently good. Everything is how the bar is so
high right books? That people know like this is
this is the big one. So, I'm really just going to
enter top Greatest Hits like the best of the best of the best and
so when you look at him liked him all this is good.
Like there's not a lot of Clunkers there.
It's all beautifully crafted that the bar is high.
One of the things that I just thought about a lot in this past
year in this space is how much we all kind of move.
To our books of the year, you know, we're we're their
assistants appreciation for the books.
I thought about when we announce the winners, just how much
attention it received this year, like looking at the winners and
the books, both high quality, but the fact that we all curled
up a little closer to our books, this past year.
Yes. This is true.
Now when we think about this is when the space is when I talk to
my friends and colleagues who aren't really in the design
space, where these are the interfaces where they can
acknowledge and see designs impact, but I look at the impact
that designers and design is growing on the world.
Where do you see the future impact going for design?
As we think about the world around us or social impact.
As we've had these conversations, more people are
identifying, they realize that they've been a part of design.
They've been positively impacted.
They've been moved. They weren't aware of it, you
know, five years ago. Ten, twenty years ago, we nice.
Students really wanting to be part of making change, right?
And really thinking about sustainability and stuff that
didn't occur to me at all it and that age that I just want to
make cool stuff. Right?
I want to make magazine the books and maybe it's some
posters, but I want to make beautiful things and it never
occurred to me that the things that I made could have an impact
or could help people make better.
Ins or, or make their lives easier?
I didn't think I could have anything to do with
accessibility or just know. I just make cool stuff.
So we we get to be part of the conversation.
We get to have a big old comfy. See at the table in a way now
and moving forward. There's value to what we do that
just again never occurred to the 20 year old version of me,
right? How does this impact your
teaching practice? You think about this about what
may be available for your students to impact?
I wish I was them in some ways. I'm glad I'm not in other ways,
but Rich, it's just like you guys.
Like, we moved it this far. And I'm moving my hand here, but
maybe we did a little bit. And now I boom, this is yours.
And let's see what you do. Yeah, your parents are still
going to say, like, did you paint the cover of the magazine?
You're like, no, like they're still a little bit of that, but
That I grew up with, but not as much, you know, yeah, they can
do anything to me. It still fascinates me that like
a designer can make it move. You know, I can make that move
that logo spin around or, and that's just little baby steps.
That's little tiny old people stuff that I'm thinking about,
but the stuff that they can do, man.
So like just jump in. Take a zillion courses, keep
looking around but also get off your computer, go outside.
Go into the real world and live don't just live on Stan
Tick-Tock and whatever else. Go go live, you know, I want to
focus on that for a second because that's a really powerful
point about living and looking at building where we were
talking earlier about the world around you as you look out your
window. Mmm.
It's citymd. Yeah.
I just see who's on the line and tell you how many people they're
all right now, so right but it was it was fun watching you kind
of talk through this space and creating the stories and
narratives and think about the world around you and How much
that's an important skill for what we do in desire in thinking
about what's happening and building the narratives?
When you look at the X at the students who are coming in and
they're shape. What are the questions?
You wish? They'd ask.
Wow. What are the questions?
Which they ask me. I've never thought about that.
That's what happens. Is that adjacent?
We have it back. We ask that this kind of
adjacent. There isn't anything.
They're coming back. As we're getting people to come
back to to the city. I want them to ask me about the
city a little bit, right? And what they should be doing.
What's what's out there? It's because again, I'm part of
me like I wanted to work really hard and all that but I also
like, get off your phone lookup. I go out there.
Don't just focus on Brooklyn, you know, or piece of Manhattan
like go kill the train, go around, go places.
If you can drive right to car at some point like go get the big
picture here. Yeah, I think and again because
I was so focused and driven in probably scared, but just like
his busy busy. Busy busy.
Yeah. I didn't do that enough until
well into middle age of of doing stuff of seeing the world a bit
and stepping back. And these kids are certainly
more well-traveled than I have ever been for the most part.
It's like, okay. Well now you hear I want you to
see more than 23rd Street. I want you to do more than go
shopping. Only to have some Adventures,
right? Don't get in trouble.
Don't make me have to bail you out.
But the go. But go do some head Adventures,
right? Yeah, but I guess, you know who
what 18 year olds going to ask me what they should be doing.
When I think about it. I'm old then I could like I'll
say go to bed, you know, turn on the television.
But I hope they're asking each other.
I'm gonna smile a bit because I was going to say they may
explore what's happening in theater because I think about
the role you played in and working you know, with your
right some of them. Do you like the theater?
I like, and they've seen a bunch of shows.
So and you've had it incredible for folio of bringing those
stories to life through the theater poster.
Yeah. Talk a bit about that, that
exploration, that part of your career.
Here, that was such an such an adventure After Rolling Stones.
Like, what do I do? Now?
I've already had the most amazing magazine job ever and
worked with the best art director ever.
Like, I don't know what to do. Like, I want to, I have to do
something else for a while. Right?
And when the opportunity came up to work with Drew Hodges, at
Saco, was one of my classmates. And I thought this is going to
be weird working for a classmate and he was like, why?
Okay, I guess you're the boss. Oh, it doesn't seem weird to
you. But, but in the end of wasn't
and And it was, it was such a huge change from what I done and
I realized like I needed a kick in the ass into have to learn
something new and I'm doing that again now and this in this job.
This is chair of learning something new again, the theater
stuff though was this little tiny insular world.
Everybody knew each other, a lot of hugs and kisses.
And it took a while to get comfortable and to feel
accepted. Did in part of the club in ways,
but I, I knew theater and I have a good pop culture frame of
reference. So it felt comfortable.
And what fun? What, what a thrill to get to do
stuff that he walked down the street and see a sea on a
theater and to get to go to all these shows around the world in
and so many shows on Broadway and things that I remember going
to a few shows. It's like I never I would have
thought of going to this on my own and how life-changing
theater can be and to walk out at 11:00.
Like well that was amazing to have these experiences that move
you or make you tap your toes or whatever.
I was too cheap to put money into buying beer tickets, unless
it was going to tkts or something and learned like, oh
no, I want this to remain part of my life.
Yeah, and just to meet all the amazing people.
He worked with to be in the presence of greatness even in
Stephen sondheim's passing. Remember going to a shoot with
him in thinking, like I can't believe I'm standing here,
right? You know, like this is crazy.
And there's so many stories like that in it, you know, whatever
you're doing. It just sort of becomes part of
your day-to-day. The years at rolling.
Sounds like acid. Just what I do, you know,
thinking about. But then when you look back,
you'll have full flower. Is a really cool part of my
life, wasn't it? All right.
So what I'm going to ask question, which we know the
answer to but the theater experience it made you a better
designer. Yeah, didn't it?
Yeah. Yeah.
I had to learn how to defend the
work whether it was mine or the work that we're all doing
together in the department. I had to learn to present, which
I didn't really do that. Well before, didn't really have
to how to take criticism. That was sometimes brutal.
You know how to? Since people's changes to do
things over and over or over sometimes and accept that
sometimes your 7th or 8th or 9th idea.
Is better than the first one that you thought was pretty
good. Right?
Yeah. To do things in multiple, which
I know designers. We don't like to do you think.
Okay. This is it, here's one or two,
but it was a good experience for those years of doing many, many,
and encouraging people. I worked with try it like this.
Let's try it another way to keep people's morale up when we were
on the 99th version of something.
But yeah, it was kind of brutal at times but it was really fun,
Andrew made. Sure that it was always fun and
they were always treated really well.
We went on trips every year. I like, we all went to little
dicks in by st. John's, like we did something
every year as a group, save mobile, HUD friend.
And so those little, you know, why they had wine 30 at 5:30 on
Fridays. Usually when I was teaching.
So, I wasn't there for that. But like they had Little moments
of like, okay, we're going to drink this wine today and stuff
that I guess you don't get to do in an office anymore.
But right, what was the first production in the work that you
felt like you found your voice as a designer moving from
Rolling Stones to Broadway. What was the first one?
We you felt? Okay.
This is my voice in this Broadway context.
I know, for Rolling Stone. There was something.
I came in one Saturday and worked on her or one Sunday cuz
I just needed the time by myself to sit there and And when I
remember showing it to Fred on Monday and he was like, when did
you do this as well? I came in yesterday and he's
just like, you came in yesterday and I was like, well, yeah.
And whoever he's like all starry-eyed.
Like you came in on your own time to were like, oh my God, I
love you. And then again, at spot working
on the Rolling. Stone thing was a Howard Finster
thing. I remember it.
It's not very good. But in the moment, then it was
like, like, oh, you know, And an another Living Color.
Okay. Thank there were a couple of.
There were a couple of out and seeking Marley.
I think. Oh, nice.
Yeah, there were a couple of. There were just a couple of
little moments of these little breakthroughs and a Tom Hanks.
Mr. Big. I remember that and but these
are these are like early 90s there were talking about of just
stuff. That's like just yeah, I'm
trying extra hard and having the person I respected say well good
job, you know. Like good for you and good for
us. It's like oh and then at spot I
remember doing one of the two shows Harlem song and Man of La
Mancha to of the earlier, Ali Ansari, the first things and
seeing that coming home on the 1 train at 28th Street at 23rd at
20. Like I just kept seeing it.
I would get off the train and I would look at the two sheet and
I get back on and then I get off again at 18th Street, and I
hadn't been so, About something in so many years and it was so
cool to have that feeling. Again, you know, of seeing the
big, big color AD in the times. Fermentable much, I think in
like, wow, I worked on that and like puts on a marquee and here
it is in this big times. A then it's like those moments
are so wonderful and then after a while it just becomes what you
do and you just looking for mistakes, but for the kind of
those early, the Early class successes that maybe aren't the
best thing you've ever done. But in the moment, We're like,
so that's such a great feeling. And now I now I get to
experience it in a different way.
Sometimes with stuff that I get to work on.
I'll see something on the street that I worked on or something
and smile, but now, I see it with the students.
It's going to happen. That's really quick.
See seeing it in your students when they come here.
So we talked a lot about what we as Educators pass on to our
students. Well, I'm curious what some of
the things you've learned. Simply from your students and
watching them this past year. Or so there, they were more
resilient than I would have given them credit for, you know,
they stuck with it last year. We scrambled certainly March
2020, that that last semester. But for last fall through the
spring, they really rallied in was mostly cameras on
engagement, good portfolios. At the end and we talk to kids
who were all the roommates went. Back to wherever in the kids by
themselves and the apartment and like, oh and you're still doing
your work and good for you and like, let's keep in touch.
Let's check in to make sure that the you're okay because you're
literally by yourself, right? That's really hard.
So, yeah, so I've been been really impressed by how focused
they were through the worst of it.
And my sophomore class that I have on Tuesday Mornings.
We went to post your house yesterday and I see That class
remotely since I still have students in other countries and
it's a very it's half the sophomores, one semester and
then the other half the other. And so some of them, not all of
them were here showed up to meet at poster house.
And look at the pushpin show and and it was so nice to meet them
because I had nothing great, you know, this year and we met and I
know them from Zoom from Little Boxes.
And as we start to spend more time together, again, it's going
to be great. I was chair.
R for a semester and a half before things fell apart, so,
I'm hoping that as things are being put back together, that
this will be a really fun job. You know, I think it will be.
I listen to you your passion and excitement and I know it can't
help, but be fun as you question her.
So when we, when we turn this corner, we're going into 2022.
What do you most excited about? What am I was excited?
Huh? I am excited about Getting back
out in the world a little bit more.
Mhm. I was starting to get to a point
in my life where I was like, okay, I'm going to go out and do
stuff. I want to travel or right and
see see the world not just when I go to do a talk and then stack
a day on or something, but actually go and have a few
Adventures, right? And it's going to take me a
while to kind of get that going again, because it's easy for me
to fall into the I'm really busy and I got stuff to do and I have
time for that. That, but I need to create that
time to do stuff, to take a trip to kick back a little bit.
It was interesting for me to be out of the city for so long and
I always wondered what that would be like side.
Never done that before, right? And what I'd be really bored,
even if I was busy, would it be weird being so far away and
things that aren't open and being in a whole different
environment than Lower Manhattan?
And I realize, like Fine, like I was fine.
So with the exception of like bears and all this all wildlife
and sort of like AA. Yeah, power outages and all that
kind of stuff. It's know, lots of shelving but
it's like, okay, I need to to find more pleasure, right?
And more downtime in, give myself that space to just kind
of just relax every now and then and not watch TV relax, but like
relax and I don't know, look at stuff or at least be moving and
not sedentary. Well, I'm going to accept your
challenge and I'm going to be intentional and make sure the
New Year. I'm going to come up to New York
and you and I my friend are going to hang out and we're
going to I want to see New York through Gayle Anderson sighs.
That's what we're going to have adventure together.
We'll take you to a show. I want the New York story
through your eyes if the, if he is, as we as we talked about.
So that's our challenge return. And we're going to get back
together and then tell everybody about it.
That's funny. Yeah, you so dull.
Hey doll is a thing to we're good.
Well, you're gonna enjoy this year.
There were going to sit there. So no never that.
I'm gonna take a cab because it's too far to walk.
As I said, New York the New York City, story through your eye.
Yeah is wonderful. As we think about in your
career. Starting off in loving art and
loving drawing it. Do you ever pause and just take
it all in of about what a wonderful career you have and
still are having not really but I'm kind of hitting a milestone
age-wise and yet another Milestone you won't tell
anybody. Well, yeah, there's a big one.
So this is so yeah. I think I am.
I'm thinking about the future in ways.
Did a different way than I used to, I'm thinking final resting
place future at this point. But again, I'm thinking about
like, well, how can I wanna have some fun now?
Yeah. Yeah.
So when you come up we're going to.
Yeah, I have to figure out what to do.
That's fun, but it's not going to be an educational experience
is going to be fun. That's exactly what I asked for.
Okay, we're going to have fun, you know, will decide if we
share with everyone else. Let's hope it'll be Gail and
Benny taking over New York. They are all right.
Last bite of that space. So when you think about the
future design, what makes you most optimistic again, I think
that what we do is valued, right?
What we do. A young person can do well
financially, so hopefully more people will want to do what
we're doing. So and again, the families will
say, yes, it's okay for my baby to, to go to art school because
they're going to be fine. I feel like we're in my old age.
I feel like we're Reagan in good hands.
Now that young people have really good intentions and a
desire to do good. So it's really nice to see that.
So again, now I'll be there shaking a stick, just giving
them a hard time. Don't make noise.
I'm trying to sleep but just like okay, you said you were
going to do this like come on, I gotta do it.
So I feel like we're turning over the keys to some good
people. That said, I'm not giving them
up quite that easy so easily. So nice.
I intend to still be actively doing stuff.
Looking at the we're putting together a Milton show.
That's up down in the lobby and right.
It's like Milton was doing it for the last minute and I want
to be I want to be doing that to doing something.
I don't know what the doing something right up till the last
breath. I think that's a powerful way
for us to close our conversation.
Just oh, yeah. Yeah.
I know it. I can't believe we can still
talk forever. Oh my goodness.
Yes, it's time to go. I gotta go back to looking at
it. The city MD line to see who's
this who's going in for the reason why we're going to do
this again come up and we can look at the line together.
I say undergoing any take over New York.
Yeah, I need to 21 City MD at a time, but it's been a delight to
just be able to spend time and I'm here.
Its face, and I thank everybody for joining in on our
conversation with Gayle Anderson who I still say scholar teacher.
It's called Adventurer Adventure.
Yeah. Okay.
That's the role. By the next time we talk I will
have gone somewhere Channel have done something champion of the
future. Yeah, and design Optimus.
This line. Optimus.
I'm safe. I'm keeping that one.
Yeah, okay, that is my gift to you.
My friend. Thank you, and you've been a
gift to all of us. So, thank you so much, Gayle for
joining me on this episode of designer.
Jason. Thank you all for listening in
and join us next time. As we look at the power of
design, both today and tomorrow. Bye.
Thanks for joining us for this episode of design, adjacent a
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