I see the same little girl that wants to do things her own way.
I was always very stubborn and just wanting to do things myself
and experiment and try things. I always had different business
ideas but the same thing. The same common denominator was
me doing something on my own and just trying it and doing it and
see what works. Hello, and welcome to design,
adjacent the podcast that talks about the Nexus of design both
today. And tomorrow, I'm your host, Ben
EF Johnson. And today, our guest is none
other than Meg mother said. Meg is the strategy Guru and
Resident Wordsmith. For mother shed design.
A boutique branding in web design studio, based near Denver
Colorado, having wanted to own her own business.
Since she was very young, joining partner, Josiah was a
no-brainer for Meg. She combines her passion for
entrepreneurship, a love for problem solving to helping small
businesses. This entrepreneurship and
problem solving is a focus for helping these smaller
businesses. Growing survive Meg, manages all
of the nitty-gritty details of the business as well as
handling. The copywriting need for Brands
and website clients so I'd like to welcome Meg to our podcast
today. Welcome my friend.
Hey thanks so much. I'm excited to be here.
Well it's really exciting to have you here to talk about
About being an entrepreneur. We know in our design Community,
one of the tidbits of our research.
We did the last year and a half is that 80 plus percent of
designers will eventually start their own business.
Many, don't start thinking about it, but eventually, they'll come
and start their own business. But what I love about your story
is your company is about 6 years old.
It is yep. And I hear that you've been
thinking about running your business since you were six
years old. Tell us a bit about this, so
six-year-old mag. I know it's always kind of funny
when I Tell people that I am always kind of surprised but I'm
just going to think I was born an entrepreneur.
It's what I've wanted to do since I was literally six years
old. So almost as for long as I can
remember and it's funny because it's not like either of my
parents had their own business. I've had a few family members
who did, but no one that I was very it was not very aware of
that fact, when I was a little kid so I am, I don't know,
exactly, the reason why I wanted to have my own thing, but I
really always have and I had a lot of fake little businesses.
Has growing up as a child. I had a pet advice business or
you could, you know, pay me 50 cents and I would tell you what
kind of pet you should get. And so I've just always wanted
to do things my own way. I think more than anything else.
It's so funny that we have that in common.
I haven't met many people who were kids, who want it thrown
our business? That's, I thought I was the only
strange one so that's when I was a little kid.
That's what I wanted to do. I wanted to be an entrepreneur.
I didn't know what the word was right.
I but I like the idea of of creating Owning a space now,
skip ahead, your now six years in too, runny Enterprise tell us
a bit about you know what was the Genesis of starting your
design and strategy firm. So actually my husband and
business partner just died. He started the business in 2016
after working as a designer, for a local agency here in Denver
number of years, that was really his first, you know, grown-up
job out of school right out of college to see work there and
got some great experience. But eventually just realized it
wasn't for Him anymore. And that, you know, going and
finding another job somewhere else was kind of just kind of be
the same type problems and not really allow him to do things
to, you think, the way that he thought they should be done.
So right after we got married about two months, after two
months later, he quit his job and started freelancing
full-time started as mother should design Co so he had
started doing that and then about a year and a half later
while I was working as an in-house designer for a
non-profit, who his business was going really well.
And I couldn't manage everything on his own and there's just a
lot for one person and he was having way too much fun all by
himself. So I quit my full-time job and
then joined him a couple years later and then we can doing it
together ever since. So yeah, it's been a lot of ups
and downs, but I wouldn't change it for anything.
It's amazing that you're doing all those things, the same time.
So new marriage, new partnership, both in metaphor
and practice, new business. Have a good friend of mine who
always says, when you have changes in life, just do them
all. All together, that's good to
keep this feeling. I got we mention that.
So yeah, you start mother said and I see for those who are
listening, you have a great pin, it sitting behind you that has
the initials of your initial and and the company, how is it to be
the chief champion and booster for your own company.
You know, it's really fun and it's something that I wouldn't
have expected to necessarily enjoy so much, but I actually
really do and I think that's one thing, just they're having our
own Studio that I really learned.
It is just all the things that I am actually good at, or enjoy
that. I never would have thought, I
would have otherwise or even becoming, you know, becoming our
sales person, becoming our marketer 400 about that.
You know, that's, I think that's a really fascinating Insight.
Like, in the point of self-awareness, that, when
you're running your own business, you're responsible for
everything. But you start to develop skills
and talents that you didn't know you have.
So what are some of the areas I think sales is probably the
biggest one, which if you had asked me, you know, years ago
before joining the business I would been like, oh my gosh, I
would be the worst sale. If person possible, but it
actually really enjoy it and feel like I'm good at it.
And that's something that again, never would have thought that
previously. But I think that's, you know,
being in the position where you are having to do a little bit of
everything for the most part and just learning so so much kind of
warp speed compared to working a regular nine-to-five job.
That's yeah, I think the sales and marketing and even
copywriting to that something I had some experience with but not
definitely, not to the extent that I do now or in the capacity
that I do it. Our business now.
So there's just been a lot of things that.
Yeah, I really learned about myself through doing this.
Well, it's interesting. You use the concept that we all
grew up on this 9 to 5 job, right?
And we know that's kind of an ideal state of generations ago
that our lives are never neatly. 925 in one time zone, let alone
across multiple. But I wonder how do you balance
your true work-life balance with your husband and partner being
your business? How do you create a space where
you have time for yourself? Cells versus time for the
business that has definitely been a big, a big learning curve
for us, especially like you said, being a husband-wife team
working from home together for the same business.
So it was definitely a challenge at first and, you know, years
ago, when we first started, you know, we were just in our living
room, in our little tiny apartment in Denver.
So everything was really interconnected and we used to
have rules like, oh no, talking about work, you know, after 5:00
which never worked because he'd be falling asleep and be like,
oh, I forgot to, I need to tell you this.
Anything. Yeah, but no, it's been a real
learning challenge for us, but it's been good.
And I think it's really taught us how to set healthy boundaries
for ourselves, which are good for our own selves, but then
really end up helping just our business and the services that
were providing as a whole, and a couple examples of that are
scheduling, cause don't know. So just pick up the phone if
someone calls me. If it's a client, I always like
to schedule things in advance just because since we are a
small Studio, our time is very precious.
And the other big thing is that was more recent change.
That has been really good, is being closed on Fridays, has
been amazing for work like that. That's interesting.
You say so we think about that being closed on Friday setting
boundaries, you know, are really important for it.
Our interpersonal relationships and our personal life, but
they're also good if our client relationships.
So what advice do you have for people for setting healthy
relationships with your clients? Yeah, you know, I would say it's
helpful to Envision your most ideal work day or work week and
You're actually interacting with your clients, imagine what you,
what is going to be ideal for you.
And then think of what actual practical things, you can do to
put in place to get closer to that.
That's really what we did. For example, being closed on
Fridays. You know we said, hey, this is,
you know, five days on two days. Off thing is not really very
balanced. What can we do to make that
better? And I was afraid at first to
have to tell clients, you know, hey, we're no longer going to be
answering email on Fridays, where people going to push back
on that. But honestly, have not gotten
really Any pushback if anything just something a little bit
jealous, that's it. We're not working on Fridays.
So it's been a really good and it feels uncomfortable at first
for sure to set those boundaries.
But once they're set I feel like they become a lot less scary
than you thought they were going to be and you know often with a
small shop, we end up with long-term relationships with our
clients and they're ones that we would choose again.
Right. The classic interview question
or customer service question would you hire this group again
as an agency? Have you Head over your six
years experiences with clients. That you wouldn't hire again
that I would not. Yes.
Yes I have you know and that's really what has taught us.
I think who the clients are that are a good fit for us and who
are not we that's what how we really discovered that we love
working with other small, especially service-based
businesses, because we can just understand them on the same
level because we're a small service-based business as well
as compared to some of the larger more corporate clients
that we have worked with in the past who, you know, there's so
much hierarchy so much Red tape, it's hard to get anything done
versus working so much more intimately with our smaller
clients that building. Those relationships has been a
really meaningful to us. It sounds a lot like you've
refined your client portfolio and by exploring the same way
you did with coming into the business of finding things that
you're good at and you enjoy, I think often, you know,
businesses will start and you immediately want the biggest
largest corporate client, you can find.
Yeah, I mean those are always the ones that especially when
you're younger or just starting out that sound really cool and
an impressive but Once you've worked with one of those, I feel
like you kind of, get a little peek behind the curtain and
realized are not always what they what they sound like,
they're going to be, it is kind of a demystifies that space
right, where we see that sometimes, we're some of the
companies and organizations that appear to be the most creative
have the least latitude in their creative work.
And some of the spaces in which you don't even think about being
a space for Innovation, are all in.
Yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, some of the, you know,
we've had clients we had a client whose client was Netflix
and found that, you know, You think that's likes content
creation. So cool.
So interesting but found it was very like you were saying very
limiting and not at all what they thought it was going to be.
So yeah, versus when I think we you work with smaller businesses
and smaller clients, you do have a lot more flexibility over what
you're doing a lot more openness to and being willing to try
things versus when so much money or so much red tape and just
other things. Other factors are involved that
make up things a lot more constricted and limiting what
you're able to do. So, You grew up in a space of
Entrepreneurship and design, you know, what are some of the
lessons that stick out to you over your journey so far, what
are some of the things is as business owner emerging from a
designer that you've kind of called out?
Yeah. Yeah I think one of the biggest
things has been just realizing to put yourself out there and
just try things or just ask it's kind of something I tell myself
a lot because you just never know what opportunities are
actually going to work out but just be really.
Open and willing to experiment and find out what's going to
work or what's not, or what you enjoy your, what you don't?
I think what you don't like doing or what you're not good at
is just as important as the things that you are.
So that's been something that's been really valuable and a good
lesson to continue to learn over and over again.
But yeah, and I think that's one of the freedoms that comes with
having your own Studios that you are enabled to enact that change
immediately and see the results. So we'll talk about having your
own studio. And one of the spaces that, you
know, we had talked a couple Years ago, you'd probably say
Benny, how could that be a problem?
But today's world this becomes a big question.
How do you deal with scale and growth and having more work than
you know what to do if? But more importantly can handle,
that's something we have definitely learned a lot through
our six years as well, and really kind of the, the
conclusion I have drawn is for us, at least the right choice
for us is to focus on, slow, sustainable growth.
You know, we've been in the, the kind of the field where you feel
like, you're feel so much pressure.
Sure to grow and to scale rapidly, but we learned that
only leads to burnout and frustration and things that we
don't want, you know, versus yeah.
Sorry, go ahead. No, he died.
I was just screwing with you. Yeah, go ahead and talk a bit
about that because burnout as an individual designer is
challenging burnout. As a Studio owner is even more
harrowing, but burnout is a husband and wife Studio.
Honor can have deeper impacts yet and still right.
Yes. Yeah I mean that is kind of
book. Of the inevitable things about
doing this and having it, this is our main source of income.
This is what we both do, right? Is that you can't stop, and
sometimes it is a little bit kind of overwhelming, feeling of
like you just have to keep going, but one of the other
things we realized especially doing creative work, is that you
just can't be creative all of the time and that is okay to
give yourself permission to not be.
We have to tell ourselves all the time, like we're not a
factory here, you know, putting something in a box, everything
we're doing, has to be something new and different that You know,
in theory, no one has ever seen before.
And so that's such a huge challenge.
That all you can do is keep putting your one foot in front
of the other like having those healthy boundaries to to try to
rein things in and keep things as balanced as possible.
I have a question. Did you think you were ready to
start your business when you did?
Well, it helps that my husband had already started the business
because when he's, when he started, he was just like, hey,
let's just see what happens. Thankfully, I had my job that
was covering the bill. So if he didn't make any money,
we knew we were going to be okay.
That certainly hope things along.
But within his first year, he started making more money than
he did at his previous position as a designer an agency.
So we had that confidence piece of to help us along but I will
tell you on our very first day of working together.
Did not go necessarily the way I thought it would because I think
we both realized like, oh my gosh, what have we done?
We're just now sitting in our living room, with have to do
this and we really didn't know what we were doing at the time.
So I think I thought I was a little bit more ready than I was
and quickly. Realize that weren't but I have
to say we really figured it out pretty quickly and have just
continued to as you say before refined and refined to a place
where I feel like. Now we just really maintain
where we're at and what we know what is working and have more
freedom to know have things in place and no those are going to
be good and then just experiment with trying to make things even
better with our more distributed approach to work.
Has this open up your client base fee on Denver have you seen
New Opportunities definitely? Yeah, I mean that's Her the
internet, right? You don't have the potential
client call the other day with someone in Switzerland.
So the amazing part of the internet is you just never know
who you're going to get connected with and social media
has been such a big. Is it bad that I never
necessarily thought would have been?
It's been a really great tool for us and just allowing us to
connect with so many other people and clients across the
country and even internationally as well.
So, it's been an amazing tool and something that, you know,
prior to the internet days, right?
I don't think we would be nearly as successful as we are today.
So in speaking of it, The concept of success.
How have you all defined success for you now?
Yeah, that's a great question. That's something I could
actually written down in my notes beforehand because
defining what success looks like for us.
And for me I think is something I continually need to remind
myself of and in struggle with a little bit because I think you
do have this pressure to grow and that is kind of considered
successful, right? Are you how much more money are
you making this year? How many more clients have you
added this year versus, you know, for success for us just
means being happy being sustainable.
Is Nick and doing what we love to do and then having to put a
period and stop there. And knowing that's what's going
to ultimately, make you the most happy.
So when you know, we often have listeners who are younger
designers, who are going in through college, or grad school
or emerging in the space. And, you know, we try to
Showcase its skills and opportunities that are within
design, but also adjacent in space.
What advice would you have for an emerging designer today?
Who's looking to make a mark and find their own way of happiness
and success? Yeah, you know, I think one of
the biggest things I learned especially in school is just
don't be afraid to reach out to someone whether it's another
designer, a design firm that you'd like to work for a company
that you'd like to talk to be really surprised.
I feel to discover how many people are willing to share
their experience and their knowledge with you and what
opportunities and things that might lead from and connections,
you make from that, I really learned that in school and was a
lot of key to my success there and to getting my first job and
and to Yard now to is so I would say just not being afraid to
reach out to people. Yeah, I think that's an
incredibly advice we, you know. But also one that I think mrs.
Sometimes in our design Community which is made up of a
lot of introverts, right? So kind of yeah, you encouraging
you to reach out, Beyond yourself, to go into when you
think about what's next for, for mother shed design company, what
are the types of projects that you get excited about when you
look to the Future? Yeah, you know, we love working
with other small service spaces, businesses and especially Those
in the creative fields that are adjacent to design, like
videography or photography, or anything like that, just because
they already know, it's kind of types of clients already have an
understanding of what we're doing and tend to have a little
bit more of a Clear Vision in terms of specially, in terms of
a visual perspective where they're going.
And I always find that those tend to be some of the most
collaborative relationships that we have and where we can be
challenged in terms of the work we're doing in a really positive
way, really looking for more of that type of work, just because
we find it, really exciting and You on your toes a little bit in
a positive way. So really loving to do that kind
of work for sure. So as you think about design,
what do you feel are? Some of the attributes that the
Denver Community provides for you as a design shop that's
based in Denver. Yeah, you know, I think one of
the biggest things Denver has going for it is just its growth
as a city and all the different people, you know, all the
different transplants, which I am one of them about 10 years
ago. So many different types of
people from different backgrounds coming to one.
Location that has really made Denver a lot more diverse than
it used to be, which I think is has been amazing.
And it really has helped to grow our design Community as a whole
from what it used to be. So just a lot more opportunities
with in Denver and you know, Boulder Tech space is huge.
So just seeing so much growth and for myself over the last 10
years. That yeah, I think that's one of
the biggest things that's really exciting.
And I think especially with, you know, so many more people going
fully remote, even more people, moving to Denver, and the
surrounding He is so kind of people starting to spread out
around Denver, and Beyond, and watching that grow and just
meeting new people. Yeah, even in small towns, it's
been really exciting. So as the head of your own
design agency, when you look in the mirror, what parts of the
six year? Old self?
Do you see? That's a good question, hide.
If I see the same little girl that wants to do things her own
way. I was always very stubborn and
just wanting to do things myself and experiment and try things.
I always had different Current business ideas, but the same
thing. The same common denominator was
me doing something on my own and just trying it and doing it and
see what works. I feel like I'm still doing that
exact same thing and, you know, I think it's fun to think about,
you know, where are we going to be in 5 to 10 years and what is
the business about look like been, you know, I don't know
exactly but it's exciting to think about and just you know, I
always say having your own businesses kind of like the
Matrix, the red flu, red pill or blue pill and it's like, once
you take the red pill, you can't go back to ever working for
someone else again. Because it's just it's so
difficult sometimes but it is so rewarding that it can never go
back to 295. So I've heard often heard
entrepreneurial say that their hardest day as an entrepreneur
was still better than their best day working for someone else.
Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, I remember when how
desperately I wanted to quit my job and join my husband in the
business. We were kind of preparing and
working towards doing that, but I just had this overwhelming
feeling of just how much I felt like I was wasting my time in my
Potential building someone else's dream and once you kind
of really get that in your head, it's just things are consuming
and you can't get rid of it until you go off on your own.
It's, you know, it's really interesting.
It having the opportunity to be an entrepreneur and talk to
entrepreneurs from all different backgrounds.
Your sentiment is a really common one, it's kind of like
once you get caught up in addicted into building your own
dream. It's hard.
Not to. Yes.
No you just like you can't go back or sometimes you know be
talking with other people who you know, have a traditional
job. And that's all I wish I could do
what you do, you know, but I'm just too afraid and just can't
let that fear. Hold you back or at least not,
certainly not for forever around to have that regret the
challenge of. So there are the positive
attributions of dream creation, right?
An adventure but then the other parts of that of risk and
challenge. So how would you know mediated
that over the time over the last six years of what's the
appropriate amount for you of dream chasing versus risk
mitigation Yeah. You know, it's interesting,
neither myself nor my husband Josiah are very risky people.
We are pretty risk-adverse. So, sometimes I think about the
fact that we do have our own business and we're all in it
together. It's kind of crazy to think
about that. We would be here, but it's
really taught me to be a lot more flexible just because it
take things day by day. I used to not be like that at
all. I could not be been the more
opposite, but it's really forced me to be comfortable, the in,
the present, which is something that's really hard.
Our to do but because I don't know exactly what's going to
happen tomorrow. What client?
I might get what project we might get or not.
It has just forced me to be comfortable with being
uncomfortable in that feeling. But it's inevitably been a
really good thing for both of us, I would say what's one thing
that you often find Sparks your creativity.
I'd say you know, when I'm talking with a small business
owner that is just you can just tell how passionate they are
about their business and what they do.
And in turn that makes you really excited for that.
I want to deliver on what they're trying to do and really
buy into their dream for their business.
So it sort of has that passion and enthusiasm, that just
immediately translates over to us.
And what we want to create for them to help them Reach their
goals. So I would say that's kind of
the thing that continually drives you and gets you excited
about a project versus not. So you're a strategist by
training and passion and profession.
Describe what it's like to work on your own strategy for your
own company. Yeah that's a lot more
challenging I'll tell you that. Yeah.
Doing it for us for ourselves versus for our clients.
You know what's work late? You've got that third party
perspective, you feel like you can see things as clear as day,
or when it is for your own business is much much more of a
struggle and a challenge. And we actually went through a
very large Rebrand for ourselves towards the end of our last
fall, which was typical years in the making.
And it was It's real challenge, I will not lie and say that it
was easy. It took us a long time to feel
like we had established a voice and knew who we are as a
business, which honestly gave us that much more empathy for what
our clients, go through, what the issues they're dealing with.
I was going to ask you. That gives you the amphitheater
when you're like, well, of course, I know who I am in my
voice, okay? Describe it, and then you're
stuck in the same. Do you find yourself not being
able to use the same props that you use of clients because, you
know where you're going. I'm kind of the opposite I think
for A long while we kind of resisted almost going through
our own process. So I think we just thought oh
well we should just know what to do and how to say it for
ourselves. But by forcing ourselves to
actually go through our own process ended up, I think kind
of taking us out of our own heads, a little bit and helped
us get there a lot faster than we have been without it.
So, I would say thankfully our own process and like, oh, it
does work. If it helped us get to there.
So it actually ended up helping us get here for sure.
So, Describe the moment when you knew you had your own Studio.
Since that moment that it really that all of the came together,
clients work moment life. When did you really look up?
And go I'm doing this. Yeah, I say probably about a
year to two, maybe you're in half past when I joined my
husband in the business, I would say took about that long for us
to kind of figure out how to work.
Together what our roles were in the company and kind of where we
are trying to go as an actual business.
Because really, before that point, my husband had cancer you
would have said he considered himself to be more of a
freelancer than a business owner.
And so that was a big transition for him to kind of see himself
in that light talk a little bit about that, you know, because I
think that's something that people can appreciate, you know,
the difference between being a freelance or solopreneur to
actually making the transition to say we are a business entity.
Yeah, I think one of the biggest things in probably the most
trickiest to pin down was really more of a mindset issue for us
and having a confidence piece of hey, I know what I'm doing to
feel like you could call yourself that business owner
versus a freelancer and the other big piece more just our
business model. You know, going from working as
a contractor occasionally for marketing agencies, advertising
agencies, you know working within their team and what their
process and their clients to saying no more of that.
We are only Going to focus on gaining our own clients.
It's our process doing everything internally.
So that was a big. That was a big part of what
helped us transition over to being like, we are our own
studio and defining those things for have what they look like for
us as a business. So as we think about Brave, New
spaces to go in, have you explore Partnerships in any way
with other organizations to extend your capabilities.
Yeah, we've definitely explored referral Partnerships with other
Adjacent creative businesses, whether it's videographers or
photographers other copywriters, that sort of thing.
Where, you know, you guys, we're all doing similar types of
things and have similar processes and can really rely on
one another's services to help make a project, even bigger and
better. Now, say it for what we do,
especially, when it comes to photographers and videographers.
In particular, you know, elements and assets that we can
use as part of a brand or a website have been really
successful. So I'll ask you this question
for your six. Old self.
Are you proud of what? You've built.
Absolutely six year old me would be really excited.
You know, she didn't know what graphic design was certainly
when I was Was but I think the fact that I'm doing what I love
with the person that I love would make her very proud and
happy. Well I can't think of a better
way to close our conversation with doing what you love with
who you love and being proud of the work you're doing.
Thank you, Meg, for all your work and sharing with us kind of
the journey, the rich journey of thinking about starting your own
business, and dynamic ways, and working, and creating a balance
for it. Thank you for being my guest
today. Thank you, sir.
Let's, and thank you all for joining us for our episode of
design adjacent, where we look at the Nexus of design both
today, and tomorrow, please join us next time.
I'm your host. Vinnie Johnson.
And thank you, show notes for this.
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