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I see the same little girl that 
wants to do things her own way. 

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I was always very stubborn and 
just wanting to do things myself

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and experiment and try things. 
I always had different business 

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ideas but the same thing. 
The same common denominator was 

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me doing something on my own and
just trying it and doing it and 

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see what works. 
Hello, and welcome to design, 

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adjacent the podcast that talks 
about the Nexus of design both 

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today. 
And tomorrow, I'm your host, Ben

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EF Johnson. 
And today, our guest is none 

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other than Meg mother said. 
Meg is the strategy Guru and 

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Resident Wordsmith. 
For mother shed design. 

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A boutique branding in web 
design studio, based near Denver

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Colorado, having wanted to own 
her own business. 

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Since she was very young, 
joining partner, Josiah was a 

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no-brainer for Meg. 
She combines her passion for 

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entrepreneurship, a love for 
problem solving to helping small

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businesses. 
This entrepreneurship and 

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problem solving is a focus for 
helping these smaller 

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businesses. 
Growing survive Meg, manages all

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of the nitty-gritty details of 
the business as well as 

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handling. 
The copywriting need for Brands 

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and website clients so I'd like 
to welcome Meg to our podcast 

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today. 
Welcome my friend. 

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Hey thanks so much. 
I'm excited to be here. 

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Well it's really exciting to 
have you here to talk about 

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About being an entrepreneur. 
We know in our design Community,

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one of the tidbits of our 
research. 

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We did the last year and a half 
is that 80 plus percent of 

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designers will eventually start 
their own business. 

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Many, don't start thinking about
it, but eventually, they'll come

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and start their own business. 
But what I love about your story

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is your company is about 6 years
old. 

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It is yep. 
And I hear that you've been 

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thinking about running your 
business since you were six 

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years old. 
Tell us a bit about this, so 

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six-year-old mag. 
I know it's always kind of funny

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when I Tell people that I am 
always kind of surprised but I'm

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just going to think I was born 
an entrepreneur. 

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It's what I've wanted to do 
since I was literally six years 

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old. 
So almost as for long as I can 

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remember and it's funny because 
it's not like either of my 

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parents had their own business. 
I've had a few family members 

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who did, but no one that I was 
very it was not very aware of 

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that fact, when I was a little 
kid so I am, I don't know, 

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exactly, the reason why I wanted
to have my own thing, but I 

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really always have and I had a 
lot of fake little businesses. 

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Has growing up as a child. 
I had a pet advice business or 

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you could, you know, pay me 50 
cents and I would tell you what 

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kind of pet you should get. 
And so I've just always wanted 

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to do things my own way. 
I think more than anything else.

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It's so funny that we have that 
in common. 

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I haven't met many people who 
were kids, who want it thrown 

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our business? 
That's, I thought I was the only

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strange one so that's when I was
a little kid. 

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That's what I wanted to do. 
I wanted to be an entrepreneur. 

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I didn't know what the word was 
right. 

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I but I like the idea of of 
creating Owning a space now, 

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skip ahead, your now six years 
in too, runny Enterprise tell us

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a bit about you know what was 
the Genesis of starting your 

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design and strategy firm. 
So actually my husband and 

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business partner just died. 
He started the business in 2016 

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after working as a designer, for
a local agency here in Denver 

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number of years, that was really
his first, you know, grown-up 

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job out of school right out of 
college to see work there and 

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got some great experience. 
But eventually just realized it 

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wasn't for Him anymore. 
And that, you know, going and 

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finding another job somewhere 
else was kind of just kind of be

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the same type problems and not 
really allow him to do things 

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to, you think, the way that he 
thought they should be done. 

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So right after we got married 
about two months, after two 

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months later, he quit his job 
and started freelancing 

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full-time started as mother 
should design Co so he had 

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started doing that and then 
about a year and a half later 

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while I was working as an 
in-house designer for a 

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non-profit, who his business was
going really well. 

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And I couldn't manage everything
on his own and there's just a 

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lot for one person and he was 
having way too much fun all by 

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himself. 
So I quit my full-time job and 

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then joined him a couple years 
later and then we can doing it 

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together ever since. 
So yeah, it's been a lot of ups 

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and downs, but I wouldn't change
it for anything. 

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It's amazing that you're doing 
all those things, the same time.

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So new marriage, new 
partnership, both in metaphor 

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and practice, new business. 
Have a good friend of mine who 

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always says, when you have 
changes in life, just do them 

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all. 
All together, that's good to 

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keep this feeling. 
I got we mention that. 

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So yeah, you start mother said 
and I see for those who are 

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listening, you have a great pin,
it sitting behind you that has 

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the initials of your initial and
and the company, how is it to be

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the chief champion and booster 
for your own company. 

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You know, it's really fun and 
it's something that I wouldn't 

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have expected to necessarily 
enjoy so much, but I actually 

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really do and I think that's one
thing, just they're having our 

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own Studio that I really 
learned. 

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It is just all the things that I
am actually good at, or enjoy 

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that. 
I never would have thought, I 

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would have otherwise or even 
becoming, you know, becoming our

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sales person, becoming our 
marketer 400 about that. 

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You know, that's, I think that's
a really fascinating Insight. 

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Like, in the point of 
self-awareness, that, when 

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you're running your own 
business, you're responsible for

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everything. 
But you start to develop skills 

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and talents that you didn't know
you have. 

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So what are some of the areas I 
think sales is probably the 

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biggest one, which if you had 
asked me, you know, years ago 

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before joining the business I 
would been like, oh my gosh, I 

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would be the worst sale. 
If person possible, but it 

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actually really enjoy it and 
feel like I'm good at it. 

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And that's something that again,
never would have thought that 

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previously. 
But I think that's, you know, 

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being in the position where you 
are having to do a little bit of

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everything for the most part and
just learning so so much kind of

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warp speed compared to working a
regular nine-to-five job. 

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That's yeah, I think the sales 
and marketing and even 

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copywriting to that something I 
had some experience with but not

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definitely, not to the extent 
that I do now or in the capacity

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that I do it. 
Our business now. 

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So there's just been a lot of 
things that. 

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Yeah, I really learned about 
myself through doing this. 

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Well, it's interesting. 
You use the concept that we all 

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grew up on this 9 to 5 job, 
right? 

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And we know that's kind of an 
ideal state of generations ago 

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that our lives are never neatly.
925 in one time zone, let alone 

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across multiple. 
But I wonder how do you balance 

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your true work-life balance with
your husband and partner being 

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your business? 
How do you create a space where 

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you have time for yourself? 
Cells versus time for the 

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business that has definitely 
been a big, a big learning curve

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for us, especially like you 
said, being a husband-wife team 

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working from home together for 
the same business. 

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So it was definitely a challenge
at first and, you know, years 

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ago, when we first started, you 
know, we were just in our living

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room, in our little tiny 
apartment in Denver. 

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So everything was really 
interconnected and we used to 

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have rules like, oh no, talking 
about work, you know, after 5:00

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which never worked because he'd 
be falling asleep and be like, 

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oh, I forgot to, I need to tell 
you this. 

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Anything. 
Yeah, but no, it's been a real 

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learning challenge for us, but 
it's been good. 

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And I think it's really taught 
us how to set healthy boundaries

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for ourselves, which are good 
for our own selves, but then 

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really end up helping just our 
business and the services that 

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were providing as a whole, and a
couple examples of that are 

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scheduling, cause don't know. 
So just pick up the phone if 

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someone calls me. 
If it's a client, I always like 

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to schedule things in advance 
just because since we are a 

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small Studio, our time is very 
precious. 

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And the other big thing is that 
was more recent change. 

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That has been really good, is 
being closed on Fridays, has 

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been amazing for work like that.
That's interesting. 

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You say so we think about that 
being closed on Friday setting 

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boundaries, you know, are really
important for it. 

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Our interpersonal relationships 
and our personal life, but 

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they're also good if our client 
relationships. 

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So what advice do you have for 
people for setting healthy 

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relationships with your clients?
Yeah, you know, I would say it's

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helpful to Envision your most 
ideal work day or work week and 

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You're actually interacting with
your clients, imagine what you, 

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what is going to be ideal for 
you. 

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And then think of what actual 
practical things, you can do to 

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put in place to get closer to 
that. 

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That's really what we did. 
For example, being closed on 

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Fridays. 
You know we said, hey, this is, 

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you know, five days on two days.
Off thing is not really very 

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balanced. 
What can we do to make that 

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better? 
And I was afraid at first to 

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have to tell clients, you know, 
hey, we're no longer going to be

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answering email on Fridays, 
where people going to push back 

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on that. 
But honestly, have not gotten 

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really Any pushback if anything 
just something a little bit 

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jealous, that's it. 
We're not working on Fridays. 

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So it's been a really good and 
it feels uncomfortable at first 

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for sure to set those 
boundaries. 

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But once they're set I feel like
they become a lot less scary 

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than you thought they were going
to be and you know often with a 

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small shop, we end up with 
long-term relationships with our

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clients and they're ones that we
would choose again. 

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Right. 
The classic interview question 

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or customer service question 
would you hire this group again 

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as an agency? 
Have you Head over your six 

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years experiences with clients. 
That you wouldn't hire again 

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that I would not. 
Yes. 

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Yes I have you know and that's 
really what has taught us. 

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I think who the clients are that
are a good fit for us and who 

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are not we that's what how we 
really discovered that we love 

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working with other small, 
especially service-based 

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businesses, because we can just 
understand them on the same 

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level because we're a small 
service-based business as well 

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as compared to some of the 
larger more corporate clients 

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that we have worked with in the 
past who, you know, there's so 

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much hierarchy so much Red tape,
it's hard to get anything done 

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versus working so much more 
intimately with our smaller 

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clients that building. 
Those relationships has been a 

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really meaningful to us. 
It sounds a lot like you've 

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refined your client portfolio 
and by exploring the same way 

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you did with coming into the 
business of finding things that 

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you're good at and you enjoy, I 
think often, you know, 

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businesses will start and you 
immediately want the biggest 

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largest corporate client, you 
can find. 

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Yeah, I mean those are always 
the ones that especially when 

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you're younger or just starting 
out that sound really cool and 

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an impressive but Once you've 
worked with one of those, I feel

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like you kind of, get a little 
peek behind the curtain and 

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realized are not always what 
they what they sound like, 

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they're going to be, it is kind 
of a demystifies that space 

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right, where we see that 
sometimes, we're some of the 

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companies and organizations that
appear to be the most creative 

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have the least latitude in their
creative work. 

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And some of the spaces in which 
you don't even think about being

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a space for Innovation, are all 
in. 

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00:10:13,300 --> 00:10:15,600
Yeah, yeah, totally. 
I mean, some of the, you know, 

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we've had clients we had a 
client whose client was Netflix 

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and found that, you know, You 
think that's likes content 

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creation. 
So cool. 

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So interesting but found it was 
very like you were saying very 

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limiting and not at all what 
they thought it was going to be.

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So yeah, versus when I think we 
you work with smaller businesses

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and smaller clients, you do have
a lot more flexibility over what

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you're doing a lot more openness
to and being willing to try 

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things versus when so much money
or so much red tape and just 

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other things. 
Other factors are involved that 

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make up things a lot more 
constricted and limiting what 

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you're able to do. 
So, You grew up in a space of 

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Entrepreneurship and design, you
know, what are some of the 

226
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lessons that stick out to you 
over your journey so far, what 

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are some of the things is as 
business owner emerging from a 

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designer that you've kind of 
called out? 

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Yeah. 
Yeah I think one of the biggest 

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things has been just realizing 
to put yourself out there and 

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just try things or just ask it's
kind of something I tell myself 

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a lot because you just never 
know what opportunities are 

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actually going to work out but 
just be really. 

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Open and willing to experiment 
and find out what's going to 

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work or what's not, or what you 
enjoy your, what you don't? 

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I think what you don't like 
doing or what you're not good at

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is just as important as the 
things that you are. 

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So that's been something that's 
been really valuable and a good 

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lesson to continue to learn over
and over again. 

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But yeah, and I think that's one
of the freedoms that comes with 

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having your own Studios that you
are enabled to enact that change

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immediately and see the results.
So we'll talk about having your 

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own studio. 
And one of the spaces that, you 

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know, we had talked a couple 
Years ago, you'd probably say 

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Benny, how could that be a 
problem? 

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But today's world this becomes a
big question. 

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How do you deal with scale and 
growth and having more work than

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you know what to do if? 
But more importantly can handle,

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that's something we have 
definitely learned a lot through

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our six years as well, and 
really kind of the, the 

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conclusion I have drawn is for 
us, at least the right choice 

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for us is to focus on, slow, 
sustainable growth. 

253
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You know, we've been in the, the
kind of the field where you feel

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like, you're feel so much 
pressure. 

255
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Sure to grow and to scale 
rapidly, but we learned that 

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only leads to burnout and 
frustration and things that we 

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don't want, you know, versus 
yeah. 

258
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Sorry, go ahead. 
No, he died. 

259
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,200
I was just screwing with you. 
Yeah, go ahead and talk a bit 

260
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about that because burnout as an
individual designer is 

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challenging burnout. 
As a Studio owner is even more 

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harrowing, but burnout is a 
husband and wife Studio. 

263
00:12:44,500 --> 00:12:47,600
Honor can have deeper impacts 
yet and still right. 

264
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,600
Yes. 
Yeah I mean that is kind of 

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book. 
Of the inevitable things about 

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doing this and having it, this 
is our main source of income. 

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This is what we both do, right? 
Is that you can't stop, and 

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sometimes it is a little bit 
kind of overwhelming, feeling of

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like you just have to keep 
going, but one of the other 

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things we realized especially 
doing creative work, is that you

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just can't be creative all of 
the time and that is okay to 

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give yourself permission to not 
be. 

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We have to tell ourselves all 
the time, like we're not a 

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factory here, you know, putting 
something in a box, everything 

275
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we're doing, has to be something
new and different that You know,

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in theory, no one has ever seen 
before. 

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And so that's such a huge 
challenge. 

278
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That all you can do is keep 
putting your one foot in front 

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of the other like having those 
healthy boundaries to to try to 

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rein things in and keep things 
as balanced as possible. 

281
00:13:34,100 --> 00:13:35,900
I have a question. 
Did you think you were ready to 

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start your business when you 
did? 

283
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:41,000
Well, it helps that my husband 
had already started the business

284
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because when he's, when he 
started, he was just like, hey, 

285
00:13:43,700 --> 00:13:46,600
let's just see what happens. 
Thankfully, I had my job that 

286
00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,800
was covering the bill. 
So if he didn't make any money, 

287
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,200
we knew we were going to be 
okay. 

288
00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,400
That certainly hope things 
along. 

289
00:13:52,500 --> 00:13:54,700
But within his first year, he 
started making more money than 

290
00:13:54,700 --> 00:13:58,100
he did at his previous position 
as a designer an agency. 

291
00:13:58,100 --> 00:14:02,700
So we had that confidence piece 
of to help us along but I will 

292
00:14:02,700 --> 00:14:04,900
tell you on our very first day 
of working together. 

293
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,800
Did not go necessarily the way I
thought it would because I think

294
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,500
we both realized like, oh my 
gosh, what have we done? 

295
00:14:10,900 --> 00:14:13,600
We're just now sitting in our 
living room, with have to do 

296
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,200
this and we really didn't know 
what we were doing at the time. 

297
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,800
So I think I thought I was a 
little bit more ready than I was

298
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,400
and quickly. 
Realize that weren't but I have 

299
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,500
to say we really figured it out 
pretty quickly and have just 

300
00:14:25,500 --> 00:14:28,700
continued to as you say before 
refined and refined to a place 

301
00:14:28,700 --> 00:14:31,500
where I feel like. 
Now we just really maintain 

302
00:14:31,500 --> 00:14:34,800
where we're at and what we know 
what is working and have more 

303
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,500
freedom to know have things in 
place and no those are going to 

304
00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:40,400
be good and then just experiment
with trying to make things even 

305
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,000
better with our more distributed
approach to work. 

306
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:47,200
Has this open up your client 
base fee on Denver have you seen

307
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,700
New Opportunities definitely? 
Yeah, I mean that's Her the 

308
00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:52,300
internet, right? 
You don't have the potential 

309
00:14:52,300 --> 00:14:54,400
client call the other day with 
someone in Switzerland. 

310
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,100
So the amazing part of the 
internet is you just never know 

311
00:14:57,100 --> 00:14:59,400
who you're going to get 
connected with and social media 

312
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,700
has been such a big. 
Is it bad that I never 

313
00:15:01,700 --> 00:15:03,500
necessarily thought would have 
been? 

314
00:15:03,500 --> 00:15:05,800
It's been a really great tool 
for us and just allowing us to 

315
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,600
connect with so many other 
people and clients across the 

316
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:10,800
country and even internationally
as well. 

317
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,300
So, it's been an amazing tool 
and something that, you know, 

318
00:15:14,300 --> 00:15:15,700
prior to the internet days, 
right? 

319
00:15:15,700 --> 00:15:18,800
I don't think we would be nearly
as successful as we are today. 

320
00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:21,700
So in speaking of it, The 
concept of success. 

321
00:15:21,700 --> 00:15:23,700
How have you all defined success
for you now? 

322
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:25,500
Yeah, that's a great question. 
That's something I could 

323
00:15:25,500 --> 00:15:27,500
actually written down in my 
notes beforehand because 

324
00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:30,400
defining what success looks like
for us. 

325
00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,500
And for me I think is something 
I continually need to remind 

326
00:15:33,500 --> 00:15:36,300
myself of and in struggle with a
little bit because I think you 

327
00:15:36,300 --> 00:15:40,300
do have this pressure to grow 
and that is kind of considered 

328
00:15:40,300 --> 00:15:42,700
successful, right? 
Are you how much more money are 

329
00:15:42,700 --> 00:15:44,700
you making this year? 
How many more clients have you 

330
00:15:44,700 --> 00:15:47,700
added this year versus, you 
know, for success for us just 

331
00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:50,200
means being happy being 
sustainable. 

332
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,900
Is Nick and doing what we love 
to do and then having to put a 

333
00:15:52,900 --> 00:15:55,900
period and stop there. 
And knowing that's what's going 

334
00:15:55,900 --> 00:15:58,000
to ultimately, make you the most
happy. 

335
00:15:58,100 --> 00:16:01,400
So when you know, we often have 
listeners who are younger 

336
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,700
designers, who are going in 
through college, or grad school 

337
00:16:04,700 --> 00:16:07,000
or emerging in the space. 
And, you know, we try to 

338
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,700
Showcase its skills and 
opportunities that are within 

339
00:16:09,700 --> 00:16:11,600
design, but also adjacent in 
space. 

340
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,600
What advice would you have for 
an emerging designer today? 

341
00:16:14,700 --> 00:16:17,300
Who's looking to make a mark and
find their own way of happiness 

342
00:16:17,300 --> 00:16:19,700
and success? 
Yeah, you know, I think one of 

343
00:16:19,708 --> 00:16:23,200
the biggest things I learned 
especially in school is just 

344
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:27,500
don't be afraid to reach out to 
someone whether it's another 

345
00:16:27,500 --> 00:16:30,800
designer, a design firm that 
you'd like to work for a company

346
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,000
that you'd like to talk to be 
really surprised. 

347
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,700
I feel to discover how many 
people are willing to share 

348
00:16:36,700 --> 00:16:39,300
their experience and their 
knowledge with you and what 

349
00:16:39,300 --> 00:16:42,400
opportunities and things that 
might lead from and connections,

350
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:46,100
you make from that, I really 
learned that in school and was a

351
00:16:46,108 --> 00:16:49,800
lot of key to my success there 
and to getting my first job and 

352
00:16:49,900 --> 00:16:53,100
and to Yard now to is so I would
say just not being afraid to 

353
00:16:53,100 --> 00:16:55,000
reach out to people. 
Yeah, I think that's an 

354
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,200
incredibly advice we, you know. 
But also one that I think mrs. 

355
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,300
Sometimes in our design 
Community which is made up of a 

356
00:17:01,300 --> 00:17:05,099
lot of introverts, right? 
So kind of yeah, you encouraging

357
00:17:05,099 --> 00:17:08,200
you to reach out, Beyond 
yourself, to go into when you 

358
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,400
think about what's next for, for
mother shed design company, what

359
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,900
are the types of projects that 
you get excited about when you 

360
00:17:14,900 --> 00:17:17,200
look to the Future? 
Yeah, you know, we love working 

361
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,400
with other small service spaces,
businesses and especially Those 

362
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,300
in the creative fields that are 
adjacent to design, like 

363
00:17:24,300 --> 00:17:27,000
videography or photography, or 
anything like that, just because

364
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,300
they already know, it's kind of 
types of clients already have an

365
00:17:29,300 --> 00:17:31,800
understanding of what we're 
doing and tend to have a little 

366
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,500
bit more of a Clear Vision in 
terms of specially, in terms of 

367
00:17:34,500 --> 00:17:36,200
a visual perspective where 
they're going. 

368
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,600
And I always find that those 
tend to be some of the most 

369
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,700
collaborative relationships that
we have and where we can be 

370
00:17:41,700 --> 00:17:45,000
challenged in terms of the work 
we're doing in a really positive

371
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,000
way, really looking for more of 
that type of work, just because 

372
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,000
we find it, really exciting and 
You on your toes a little bit in

373
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,900
a positive way. 
So really loving to do that kind

374
00:17:54,900 --> 00:17:58,300
of work for sure. 
So as you think about design, 

375
00:17:58,300 --> 00:18:00,900
what do you feel are? 
Some of the attributes that the 

376
00:18:00,900 --> 00:18:04,300
Denver Community provides for 
you as a design shop that's 

377
00:18:04,300 --> 00:18:06,200
based in Denver. 
Yeah, you know, I think one of 

378
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,900
the biggest things Denver has 
going for it is just its growth 

379
00:18:08,900 --> 00:18:11,700
as a city and all the different 
people, you know, all the 

380
00:18:11,700 --> 00:18:14,300
different transplants, which I 
am one of them about 10 years 

381
00:18:14,300 --> 00:18:17,400
ago. 
So many different types of 

382
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,000
people from different 
backgrounds coming to one. 

383
00:18:20,300 --> 00:18:23,200
Location that has really made 
Denver a lot more diverse than 

384
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,400
it used to be, which I think is 
has been amazing. 

385
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,600
And it really has helped to grow
our design Community as a whole 

386
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:33,200
from what it used to be. 
So just a lot more opportunities

387
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,100
with in Denver and you know, 
Boulder Tech space is huge. 

388
00:18:36,100 --> 00:18:39,500
So just seeing so much growth 
and for myself over the last 10 

389
00:18:39,500 --> 00:18:41,400
years. 
That yeah, I think that's one of

390
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:42,900
the biggest things that's really
exciting. 

391
00:18:42,900 --> 00:18:46,000
And I think especially with, you
know, so many more people going 

392
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,700
fully remote, even more people, 
moving to Denver, and the 

393
00:18:49,700 --> 00:18:52,600
surrounding He is so kind of 
people starting to spread out 

394
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,600
around Denver, and Beyond, and 
watching that grow and just 

395
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,400
meeting new people. 
Yeah, even in small towns, it's 

396
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,700
been really exciting. 
So as the head of your own 

397
00:19:02,700 --> 00:19:06,300
design agency, when you look in 
the mirror, what parts of the 

398
00:19:06,300 --> 00:19:07,300
six year? 
Old self? 

399
00:19:07,300 --> 00:19:10,100
Do you see? 
That's a good question, hide. 

400
00:19:10,100 --> 00:19:13,400
If I see the same little girl 
that wants to do things her own 

401
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,700
way. 
I was always very stubborn and 

402
00:19:15,700 --> 00:19:19,600
just wanting to do things myself
and experiment and try things. 

403
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:21,900
I always had different Current 
business ideas, but the same 

404
00:19:21,900 --> 00:19:23,500
thing. 
The same common denominator was 

405
00:19:23,700 --> 00:19:27,100
me doing something on my own and
just trying it and doing it and 

406
00:19:27,100 --> 00:19:29,300
see what works. 
I feel like I'm still doing that

407
00:19:29,300 --> 00:19:32,400
exact same thing and, you know, 
I think it's fun to think about,

408
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,400
you know, where are we going to 
be in 5 to 10 years and what is 

409
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,000
the business about look like 
been, you know, I don't know 

410
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,200
exactly but it's exciting to 
think about and just you know, I

411
00:19:41,208 --> 00:19:43,900
always say having your own 
businesses kind of like the 

412
00:19:43,900 --> 00:19:46,400
Matrix, the red flu, red pill or
blue pill and it's like, once 

413
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,300
you take the red pill, you can't
go back to ever working for 

414
00:19:49,300 --> 00:19:51,700
someone else again. 
Because it's just it's so 

415
00:19:51,700 --> 00:19:55,300
difficult sometimes but it is so
rewarding that it can never go 

416
00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:58,700
back to 295. 
So I've heard often heard 

417
00:19:58,700 --> 00:20:02,300
entrepreneurial say that their 
hardest day as an entrepreneur 

418
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,800
was still better than their best
day working for someone else. 

419
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,800
Absolutely, absolutely. 
I mean, I remember when how 

420
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,000
desperately I wanted to quit my 
job and join my husband in the 

421
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,800
business. 
We were kind of preparing and 

422
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,800
working towards doing that, but 
I just had this overwhelming 

423
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,000
feeling of just how much I felt 
like I was wasting my time in my

424
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,900
Potential building someone 
else's dream and once you kind 

425
00:20:22,900 --> 00:20:26,500
of really get that in your head,
it's just things are consuming 

426
00:20:26,500 --> 00:20:29,300
and you can't get rid of it 
until you go off on your own. 

427
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:30,900
It's, you know, it's really 
interesting. 

428
00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:33,700
It having the opportunity to be 
an entrepreneur and talk to 

429
00:20:33,700 --> 00:20:35,600
entrepreneurs from all different
backgrounds. 

430
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,600
Your sentiment is a really 
common one, it's kind of like 

431
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,000
once you get caught up in 
addicted into building your own 

432
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:43,100
dream. 
It's hard. 

433
00:20:43,100 --> 00:20:44,000
Not to. 
Yes. 

434
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,500
No you just like you can't go 
back or sometimes you know be 

435
00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:49,500
talking with other people who 
you know, have a traditional 

436
00:20:49,500 --> 00:20:51,500
job. 
And that's all I wish I could do

437
00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:54,700
what you do, you know, but I'm 
just too afraid and just can't 

438
00:20:54,700 --> 00:20:56,600
let that fear. 
Hold you back or at least not, 

439
00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,000
certainly not for forever around
to have that regret the 

440
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,600
challenge of. 
So there are the positive 

441
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,200
attributions of dream creation, 
right? 

442
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:09,100
An adventure but then the other 
parts of that of risk and 

443
00:21:09,100 --> 00:21:11,800
challenge. 
So how would you know mediated 

444
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,000
that over the time over the last
six years of what's the 

445
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:19,000
appropriate amount for you of 
dream chasing versus risk 

446
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,400
mitigation Yeah. 
You know, it's interesting, 

447
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,700
neither myself nor my husband 
Josiah are very risky people. 

448
00:21:25,700 --> 00:21:28,400
We are pretty risk-adverse. 
So, sometimes I think about the 

449
00:21:28,408 --> 00:21:30,800
fact that we do have our own 
business and we're all in it 

450
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,800
together. 
It's kind of crazy to think 

451
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,600
about that. 
We would be here, but it's 

452
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:39,700
really taught me to be a lot 
more flexible just because it 

453
00:21:39,700 --> 00:21:43,400
take things day by day. 
I used to not be like that at 

454
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,200
all. 
I could not be been the more 

455
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,400
opposite, but it's really forced
me to be comfortable, the in, 

456
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,100
the present, which is something 
that's really hard. 

457
00:21:50,300 --> 00:21:52,600
Our to do but because I don't 
know exactly what's going to 

458
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,200
happen tomorrow. 
What client? 

459
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,600
I might get what project we 
might get or not. 

460
00:21:56,700 --> 00:21:59,800
It has just forced me to be 
comfortable with being 

461
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,600
uncomfortable in that feeling. 
But it's inevitably been a 

462
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:08,000
really good thing for both of 
us, I would say what's one thing

463
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,100
that you often find Sparks your 
creativity. 

464
00:22:11,700 --> 00:22:14,300
I'd say you know, when I'm 
talking with a small business 

465
00:22:14,300 --> 00:22:18,000
owner that is just you can just 
tell how passionate they are 

466
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,000
about their business and what 
they do. 

467
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,500
And in turn that makes you 
really excited for that. 

468
00:22:22,500 --> 00:22:26,000
I want to deliver on what 
they're trying to do and really 

469
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,200
buy into their dream for their 
business. 

470
00:22:28,300 --> 00:22:30,800
So it sort of has that passion 
and enthusiasm, that just 

471
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,800
immediately translates over to 
us. 

472
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,600
And what we want to create for 
them to help them Reach their 

473
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:37,900
goals. 
So I would say that's kind of 

474
00:22:37,900 --> 00:22:40,800
the thing that continually 
drives you and gets you excited 

475
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:46,200
about a project versus not. 
So you're a strategist by 

476
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,700
training and passion and 
profession. 

477
00:22:50,300 --> 00:22:53,500
Describe what it's like to work 
on your own strategy for your 

478
00:22:53,500 --> 00:22:55,400
own company. 
Yeah that's a lot more 

479
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,600
challenging I'll tell you that. 
Yeah. 

480
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,600
Doing it for us for ourselves 
versus for our clients. 

481
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,100
You know what's work late? 
You've got that third party 

482
00:23:03,100 --> 00:23:06,000
perspective, you feel like you 
can see things as clear as day, 

483
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:10,300
or when it is for your own 
business is much much more of a 

484
00:23:10,300 --> 00:23:13,000
struggle and a challenge. 
And we actually went through a 

485
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,000
very large Rebrand for ourselves
towards the end of our last 

486
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,400
fall, which was typical years in
the making. 

487
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,600
And it was It's real challenge, 
I will not lie and say that it 

488
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,600
was easy. 
It took us a long time to feel 

489
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,400
like we had established a voice 
and knew who we are as a 

490
00:23:27,408 --> 00:23:30,500
business, which honestly gave us
that much more empathy for what 

491
00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:33,000
our clients, go through, what 
the issues they're dealing with.

492
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,600
I was going to ask you. 
That gives you the amphitheater 

493
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,500
when you're like, well, of 
course, I know who I am in my 

494
00:23:37,500 --> 00:23:40,000
voice, okay? 
Describe it, and then you're 

495
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,400
stuck in the same. 
Do you find yourself not being 

496
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,800
able to use the same props that 
you use of clients because, you 

497
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,600
know where you're going. 
I'm kind of the opposite I think

498
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,600
for A long while we kind of 
resisted almost going through 

499
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,100
our own process. 
So I think we just thought oh 

500
00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:57,500
well we should just know what to
do and how to say it for 

501
00:23:57,500 --> 00:23:59,900
ourselves. 
But by forcing ourselves to 

502
00:23:59,900 --> 00:24:02,700
actually go through our own 
process ended up, I think kind 

503
00:24:02,700 --> 00:24:05,900
of taking us out of our own 
heads, a little bit and helped 

504
00:24:05,900 --> 00:24:09,100
us get there a lot faster than 
we have been without it. 

505
00:24:09,100 --> 00:24:11,400
So, I would say thankfully our 
own process and like, oh, it 

506
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,300
does work. 
If it helped us get to there. 

507
00:24:14,300 --> 00:24:17,500
So it actually ended up helping 
us get here for sure. 

508
00:24:18,100 --> 00:24:24,700
So, Describe the moment when you
knew you had your own Studio. 

509
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,600
Since that moment that it really
that all of the came together, 

510
00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:33,300
clients work moment life. 
When did you really look up? 

511
00:24:33,300 --> 00:24:39,300
And go I'm doing this. 
Yeah, I say probably about a 

512
00:24:39,300 --> 00:24:43,800
year to two, maybe you're in 
half past when I joined my 

513
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,700
husband in the business, I would
say took about that long for us 

514
00:24:46,700 --> 00:24:48,700
to kind of figure out how to 
work. 

515
00:24:48,900 --> 00:24:52,300
Together what our roles were in 
the company and kind of where we

516
00:24:52,300 --> 00:24:54,600
are trying to go as an actual 
business. 

517
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,900
Because really, before that 
point, my husband had cancer you

518
00:24:56,908 --> 00:24:59,800
would have said he considered 
himself to be more of a 

519
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,400
freelancer than a business 
owner. 

520
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,900
And so that was a big transition
for him to kind of see himself 

521
00:25:05,900 --> 00:25:08,800
in that light talk a little bit 
about that, you know, because I 

522
00:25:08,808 --> 00:25:11,400
think that's something that 
people can appreciate, you know,

523
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,500
the difference between being a 
freelance or solopreneur to 

524
00:25:15,500 --> 00:25:18,600
actually making the transition 
to say we are a business entity.

525
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,900
Yeah, I think one of the biggest
things in probably the most 

526
00:25:21,900 --> 00:25:25,500
trickiest to pin down was really
more of a mindset issue for us 

527
00:25:25,500 --> 00:25:29,100
and having a confidence piece of
hey, I know what I'm doing to 

528
00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:31,600
feel like you could call 
yourself that business owner 

529
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,700
versus a freelancer and the 
other big piece more just our 

530
00:25:34,700 --> 00:25:37,700
business model. 
You know, going from working as 

531
00:25:37,700 --> 00:25:41,600
a contractor occasionally for 
marketing agencies, advertising 

532
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,800
agencies, you know working 
within their team and what their

533
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,400
process and their clients to 
saying no more of that. 

534
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,300
We are only Going to focus on 
gaining our own clients. 

535
00:25:51,300 --> 00:25:54,300
It's our process doing 
everything internally. 

536
00:25:54,300 --> 00:25:56,100
So that was a big. 
That was a big part of what 

537
00:25:56,100 --> 00:25:59,600
helped us transition over to 
being like, we are our own 

538
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,300
studio and defining those things
for have what they look like for

539
00:26:03,300 --> 00:26:07,500
us as a business. 
So as we think about Brave, New 

540
00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:11,700
spaces to go in, have you 
explore Partnerships in any way 

541
00:26:11,700 --> 00:26:15,000
with other organizations to 
extend your capabilities. 

542
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,600
Yeah, we've definitely explored 
referral Partnerships with other

543
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,700
Adjacent creative businesses, 
whether it's videographers or 

544
00:26:21,700 --> 00:26:25,200
photographers other copywriters,
that sort of thing. 

545
00:26:25,300 --> 00:26:27,900
Where, you know, you guys, we're
all doing similar types of 

546
00:26:27,900 --> 00:26:30,800
things and have similar 
processes and can really rely on

547
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,200
one another's services to help 
make a project, even bigger and 

548
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:35,900
better. 
Now, say it for what we do, 

549
00:26:35,900 --> 00:26:39,600
especially, when it comes to 
photographers and videographers.

550
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,100
In particular, you know, 
elements and assets that we can 

551
00:26:42,100 --> 00:26:45,300
use as part of a brand or a 
website have been really 

552
00:26:45,300 --> 00:26:48,100
successful. 
So I'll ask you this question 

553
00:26:48,100 --> 00:26:49,500
for your six. 
Old self. 

554
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,500
Are you proud of what? 
You've built. 

555
00:26:51,500 --> 00:26:53,900
Absolutely six year old me would
be really excited. 

556
00:26:53,900 --> 00:26:57,000
You know, she didn't know what 
graphic design was certainly 

557
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,200
when I was Was but I think the 
fact that I'm doing what I love 

558
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,200
with the person that I love 
would make her very proud and 

559
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,700
happy. 
Well I can't think of a better 

560
00:27:06,700 --> 00:27:12,100
way to close our conversation 
with doing what you love with 

561
00:27:12,100 --> 00:27:14,300
who you love and being proud of 
the work you're doing. 

562
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,700
Thank you, Meg, for all your 
work and sharing with us kind of

563
00:27:18,700 --> 00:27:21,900
the journey, the rich journey of
thinking about starting your own

564
00:27:21,900 --> 00:27:25,100
business, and dynamic ways, and 
working, and creating a balance 

565
00:27:25,100 --> 00:27:27,300
for it. 
Thank you for being my guest 

566
00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:28,200
today. 
Thank you, sir. 

567
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,000
Let's, and thank you all for 
joining us for our episode of 

568
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,900
design adjacent, where we look 
at the Nexus of design both 

569
00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:38,600
today, and tomorrow, please join
us next time. 

570
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,300
I'm your host. 
Vinnie Johnson. 

571
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,400
And thank you, show notes for 
this. 

572
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,100
Episode will be available on AIG
a.org. 

573
00:27:46,100 --> 00:27:49,600
Please subscribe to our show on 
anchor Apple, podcasts Google 

574
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,900
play Spotify or wherever you get
your podcast. 

575
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,200
Aiga is designed adjacent 
podcasts and its contents by the

576
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,000
copyright of a Aiga the 
professional association for 

577
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:05,800
design All Rights Reserved, any 
redistribution or reproduction 

578
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,300
of part or all of the contents 
in any form is prohibited 

579
00:28:09,300 --> 00:28:11,900
without aig's Express written 
permission. 

580
00:28:12,700 --> 00:28:15,000
My name is Li Xian zhuang until 
next time.