You're listening to. She said what with your host
Alyssa Harper? Hello sexy people.
Welcome back to. She said what if you guys have
never listened to the podcast before that, I just want to
welcome you. However you are, whoever you
are. Whatever is going on in your
life. You are welcome into this space
and I'm so excited to have you here.
This is really a podcast to help you grow and learn about
yourself and become the best version of yourself.
We touched on so many topics, like sexual wellness, and Chips
and personal growth confidence, self care, self, love all of
these things that make you better and give you a better
relationship with yourself. So today's episode we're going
to be talking about sobriety and this isn't an episode about how
you need to become sober and how alcohol is the worst thing in
the world and it's really an opportunity for you to assess
your relationship with alcohol. And you can apply so many things
that we talked about in this episode today in your everyday
life. I'm interviewing Millie Gooch
and You run something called The Sober girl society, which is
this beautiful community of people that she is brought
together over the last few years and it's just so so cool.
She talks as well about being sober, curious, which I would
actually put myself in that space.
And so, I really related to this episode and I felt like the
interview was just amazing. And I learned so much from her,
you're going to learn what all of that means in today's
episode. That's just a chance for you to
reflect and see how your relationship with alcohol is
either serving you or not serving you.
So let's get right into it. Enjoy today's episode.
Welcome Ellie. Thank you so much for coming
onto the show. Oh, thank you so much for having
me. I'm excited.
I like like I said, guys, I found her recently and I went
all the way through her socials and I did like the biggest Deep
dive. The biggest like creep and I
just was obsessed and I was like, guys, we need to have her
on the show because you're going to learn so much and I can't
wait for you to hear her story because Everything that I've
seen has inspired me so much and has taught me so much and I
think that you guys deserve that.
So Millie, can you give us like a little bit of an overview?
Like tell us about the sober girl society and what that is?
Yes, of course. So stay with us.
Like, you is something that I set out when I was seven months
sober. So that was in 2018.
I was 26, I had given up alcohol because of the effect.
It was having a moment to help. So I was your Classic Party
Girl. Binge Drinker.
And you know, I would suffer with my hangovers for like three
days. It was having a knock-on effect
for, you know, anxiety, depression, all of those fun
things. And yeah, when I stopped
drinking, I kind of looked around to see what support was
out there and there was only really the option of a a and I
know a lot about a and I have loads of friends who have been
through the programs whereby the program, but for me at that
time, it just didn't feel like the right fit.
But regardless, I kind of wanted to Find other people, you know,
me other people who were like me and I couldn't really find
anything to be honest for young women, so I decided that I would
say out. So we got a society, I thought
it could be a place that you know we could chat about
non-alcoholic wine or say over dating and yeah it just it just
escalated. So it went from like I don't
know, I thought there'd be like five of us to I think it's now a
hundred eighty seven thousand followers, which is just losing
crazy to me. Yeah, incredible.
Yeah, I like that. Something that I thought was so
cool to right away was I was like you're not just posting
about it, you know you're not just being like this is like day
number blah blah blah of like being sober and it was just your
journey was like, seeing the community that you formed in
like even just the reels on your page of like like a big room of
all these people that you've brought together.
I was like this is so cool. Like that is truly what it means
to like Foster community and so, like kudos to you because that
is incredible. Well, thank you and I also I
wanted to say, I love that you went through that Journey for 7
months before you like jumped on and, like, did this thing on
social media? Like, I think it's cool that,
you know, you had that foundation and then you went
into social media, doing it. But I wanted to ask you, when
you started doing social media and started talking about
sobriety online, were you scared to open up about it?
Like did it feel daunting? Yeah, it did.
And so I actually didn't put my face on, so we got Society until
I had 10,000 followers, which is crazy, isn't that?
Because I just, I didn't really want to be the focus of it
because it felt and I think it's amazing.
That people do share their Journeys early on.
But for me, I was really wrestling with a lot,
navigating, a lot and trying to work it out in my own head
before I put it into the world and I think so when yeah, when I
started it, I was seven months over but I still never really.
I wanted it to be about me, I just wanted to meet other people
and I thought it would be a nice space to talk about things.
I followed kind of communities at the time that had like a
shared purpose of whether it was, you know, body positivity
or veganism. And I just thought it would be
really cool if there's a club for like, young course over
girls. So yeah, I started it and then
didn't didn't put my face on then.
After 10,000 followers, I started getting like a lot of
DM's. I started getting requests to
appear on like panel talks and podcasts and things, and I was
like, oh, I think I'm actually gonna have to put my face on
this now because We were like, news isn't behind this account.
Everyone's, who's like, who's the mystery woman?
Like, who is? Yeah.
Yeah, this is like this being that no one knows totally.
And when you started doing that, do you feel like people just
latched on I guess more than you thought?
They would like, did you not expect a response?
Yea though, I didn't think I didn't think anything was going
to be as big as it was. I never thought it was gonna
like turn into my full-time job and never thought I was going to
write a book about it, like, I just looking back, I think,
because I knew that I needed something like that, and I think
they always say, like, if you need something, then there's
likely other people who need it to that.
At the time, I felt like the only person in the world who was
like doing this, they and their now, like five years later, it's
becoming so much. More normalized and like it's
just growing and growing. It hasn't, you know, ever got to
a point where I'm like, oh I think that's it now.
Everyone's joined. It's just it's going.
Which is great. Yeah, I so good and I wanted to
ask you let's go back. Now let's talk about your
journey with it. Like how did that start?
How did you know that you wanted to become sober?
Like when did you get to that point where you were like okay
this is actually something I want to do.
Yeah, so I really started drinking when I was 18 when I
went to University. So we've got a big university
drinking culture in the UK where it's kind of just expected like,
and I'm sure it's the same in a lot of places that you don't
really feel like you ever have a choice.
It's just, yeah, I'll go to UNI and I'll drink.
So I really started drinking at University and I it was just
something I did because everyone else is doing and because it was
a normal because it was expected.
I never particularly had a desire to drink, I just did and
then I Two in Nightlife, I worked in club.
So that's in bars and I think slowly, but surely and without
me, even realizing, which I think is the kind of dangerous
part of it, alcohol turn to something that I just did
because everyone else was doing to something that I then felt
like I became quite reliant on and not necessarily in a
physical dependency. But in terms of confidence, if I
was ever feeling insecure, I would drink of if I was ever
feeling stressed, I would drink this.
Coping mechanism that hadn't been a coping mechanism before
slowly, you know, unveiled itself as one.
And then I left uni I went to work in media as I worked in PR
rights in journalism and you know it was lots of parties and
free champagne and the like and my drinking just started getting
a bit out of control. You know, embarrassing myself at
work, parties, waking up and not knowing how I got home.
I really started to suffer with back out.
So I wouldn't remember large portions of my night sometimes
like a good four or five hours would just Yeah, I'm ready.
And then it was then it was the effect of my mental health.
I was anxious all the time and I got into this cycle and what
they say is like mental health issues and you know, substance
abuse are quite hard to untangle because I was drinking because I
felt anxious and drinking would make me feel less anxious, but
then the next day you get a spike in anxiety.
So then you just get into this cycle, really quickly of
drinking to feel less anxious And I was just really sad,
really miserable? Really depressed.
I was, you know, arguing with my friends and lights out, just
creating General havoc and chaos and I just I was miserable but
then I went on a night out and I was it was like February 2018.
I woke up. I was so hungover.
It wasn't. It wasn't necessarily like the
worst hangover I've ever had or the most stupid thing I've ever
done and I just it was like something just switched on I was
at I just can't do this anymore, I cannot live my life.
They said every single weekend and yeah, I never I never knew
if I was going to make it like a forever thing.
But I was like, I think I need a good like, six months just to
get my life together and then yeah, five years later, here we
are. Wow, so that's interesting
because I always wonder if people find it like, so,
daunting to the point, like, if they're going to say, oh, I'm
going to do this forever, like this is a forever thing if
that's so daunting and that's what stops people from even
taking a week. Goff or taking a month off
because it's just like, oh no. Like I'm used to it.
I'm used to it, you know, this is what I do or, you know, it's
controlled but it's, you know, I use it every day.
It's like that kind of thing. It's really interesting.
How people will kind of, I guess justify their use of it or they
think it's in control when it's not or they think it's in
control. But then, if they think about
actually stopping, it's like that's actually a bit of a scary
thing. It's like if it's a scary thing,
you know? It's probably not bad.
Yeah. If you can't just Up.
Then you are probably a little bit more addicted to it than you
think you are. Yeah, yeah.
And it's interesting too, because people will say like,
but it's not like it's not actual diction, it's not
physical addiction, it's not like, oh, I'm going to wake up
and have all these shakes if I don't drink.
But it's like, yes. But how you work something into
your lifestyle does absolutely affect you.
You know, if you are potentially making plans around like, oh, I,
you know, I usually take my nights for me, you know, that's
usually me time, but it's actually that, you know, I might
be drunk at that point. Then you're not making plans and
doing certain things on those nights because you can't like,
it's it really does start to think just affect all of your
choices and it can be like a slow burn and then you can find
themselves really quite low in that situation.
Yeah, that's what I think. One of the things I always say
is it doesn't like just a really big problem with drinking
doesn't just occur. Overnight will get into your
life slowly and build and build and that's how addiction Works.
In terms of, you know, you have to drink more to get the same
effect. Your tolerance levels go up.
So I always say I always use the analogy.
It's like if you saw or a house that was like on fire, you
shouldn't necessarily wait until it's burnt down to do something.
Like if you can see that there's always a small fire there
actually, I should put it out because I think that's the thing
with drinking problems. Is we wait until they get to
this, like mysterious rock bottom and unless it's at that
point where like it's fine, I'm not that bad.
Like I can keep going that. Would you wait until you all
that bad and then do something about it.
Like it's yeah. Oh wow.
Did I and tackle it before? It gets to that level.
Yeah it's so true. Like the amount of times I feel
like yeah I've heard that or of seen that that oh it's not that
bad, you know, or you were never that bad and do you think the
opinions of like friends and family members tie in there as
well? Like people will look at others
and be like, oh, you know, everyone drinks or it's, you
know, you were never that bad, you don't need to be sober
forever. Like that's a bit dramatic.
Have you experienced? At all.
Or do you think people do? Yeah, 100%.
I think I used to get it quite a lot because again I wasn't
someone who was like waking up and the first thing I was doing
was drinking everyone said oh you know you're not that bad,
you're not addicted but actually I was going out every weekend
ruining my life like making myself miserable doing stupid
things upsetting people. I loved waking up spending my
whole weekend like embed hungover and miserable and I
wasn't living and and they they didn't get to see that bit.
They saw the bit on a night out, you know, causing a bit of chaos
and destruction but they didn't have to live in my head they
didn't have to be there in the next day when I was like shaking
and having an existential crisis and like having you know awful
Thor's. The they weren't there doing
that bit. So I think it's really hard
because people just see this like all fun party girl but they
don't really see the full extent of the damage that that drinking
is causing. So you have to be have to be
Like rooted in your decision when you decide to give up and
it is really hard. But you have to like, basically
put like things either side of you that don't allow opinions to
come in because soon as you do that is often when people are
kind of swayed to go back and then start going.
Yeah, that's, you know, I wasn't that bad but it, that bad is, is
kind of on a spectrum and it's what it means to you to be that
bad. Yeah, do you think that it
really just comes back to the individual to decide whether or
not? They think they have a problem.
Like I think some people will tell themselves it's going fine
and they don't need to do anything, you know, because if
they actually have to admit to themselves as a problem, then
that's a big deal. But how do you tell that as
yourself like her as an individual?
How do you decipher? Like I need to quit altogether
or I need to pull back. Or do you think there's a way to
know? Yeah, I think it's rather than
asking like is it a problem? Just asking, is it a problem for
me like is, is it a problem? Is it causing problems in my
life and kind of thinking about what your life would look like
if you took it out? Like, do you think that your
life could improve if you actually took alcohol at the
equation? Do you think there's a
possibility that your mental health could get better that
your physical health could get better that your relationships
could get better? I think, looking at those things
in Yeah, just not focusing on comparing your drinking to
anyone else's. Is it a problem for you?
Is it causing problems in your life because some people can go
out every night, create chaos, wake up wherever and they're
fine with that, and that's okay, but if it's a problem for you
and if that's not how you want to live your life, then then
that's when you maybe need to think about changing your
relationship with it. Right?
Yeah, and when you first started deciding that you were thinking,
okay, I'm going to quit and I can't be doing this anymore.
What were your initial fears around it?
Because you mentioned, say using it for confidence, right?
Like, was that a part of it was there was there.
A lot of things you are scared that we're going to happen or
things, you were going to miss out on.
Yeah, there were things. I was terrified about.
I think the confidence is a big one.
I think, especially when I start thinking I was single.
So the thought of going on a date?
So, So that at the beginning was absolutely terrifying to me the
biggest things was actually alcohol and being this party,
girl, was basically my Identity or the identity I'd created for
myself was like, you know, I was always a friend.
You would call if you wanted night out.
I was always last on the dance. So if you said, oh yeah, your
friend Millie, they've got, oh yeah, the one that part is
really hard. So I kind of had this like, oh,
well, when when I stopped drinking the who am I going to
be like, what am I going to be? I just don't know.
So There were so many things and I think I was worried about
feeling isolated that my friends don't want to hang out with me
that you know, site yet a lot of fear.
So I understand it. When people say them to me and I
want to be like, you're going to be fine.
I promise that I had those fears and it's really hard for someone
else to kind of yak while those. I think in the moment, do you
feel like any of those, fears came true.
Like, did you struggle with friends and socializing
initially? Yeah, I think initially they
kind of it is true. Going on.
Your first sober date is going to be scary and I'm not going to
lie and say, you know, it's wonderful because it's not, it's
scary. But I think the biggest lesson
I've learned is just, it is like a practice and where I was so
reliant on alcohol for confidence.
I didn't have any confidence in my own because I would say go on
a day, I'd feel nervous, so I would drink and then suddenly I
would feel confident. And then the next day that
confidence doesn't stay with you because you've got it from a
bottle. It says a synthetic source.
So what I realized by actually doing us over day is I really
started to build that confidence innately and like within myself,
I would go after the day and be like, okay, that was fine.
Like, you know, I managed to come up with good conversation
topics, I think they like me. They said they want to see me
again and then the next day I'm like, oh cool, I've got this, I
can do this and you just keep building on it and like is easy
for me to say now, five years later but it is.
Everything is so normal to me to do without alcohol, it just
doesn't even Phase anymore. Whereas, at the beginning,
everything was terrifying but now I'm like, oh yeah.
Yeah, I've done like 25 so Verde, it's like it's fine.
It's just the norm. And I think that's the hardest
thing that people want tips and quick fixes for when they first
stop drinking. But the reality is you just have
to you have to practice and you have to just keep going with it.
Mmm. Wow, that's so cool.
Like that's so interesting to me that your confidence actually
grew from there. Like it wasn't just.
Oh, now I have to find how to be confident in a different way.
It was actually, like a billion times better because it was
actually like a real thing and you really prove it to yourself.
Like, to me, it just feels like, you know, putting yourself in
that uncomfortable situation. You're putting yourself in a
space where you're able to grow and like I think, you know, that
ties over in so many areas of Our Lives where we're like
willing to put ourselves out there even if it's scary.
Like it can be the best thing that we ever do even with you
you know starting your community.
It's like at first you obviously do.
Put your face on it because you're like, you know, I don't
know. I don't know, this isn't me.
You're hiding and then you finally put yourself into it and
then I'm sure people from their connectors you so much.
And obviously it's grown so much to from 10,000, so that's
amazing. Yeah, thank you.
It's awesome. It's so good.
I want to kind of get into now for people who are thinking of
wanting to become sober or sober, curious as you would call
it, can we talk about Bout that you talk to a lot of people who
are quote unquote, sober curious and what does that mean for you?
Yes I think. So curious is a great term that
is coming and so it was actually coined by Ruby Warrington who
wrote the book of the same name and there's a bit of a mix
definition because I think some people think it means being
curious about being full-time sober.
But the way she kind of uses it is that it's like a forever
state. So you never really have to
declare yourself as fully teetotal.
You're just more of We cool it here like mindful drinker.
So it's, you know, just being more aware about your drinking
patterns, and your habits, and making sure you're constantly
kind of re-evaluating relationship with alcohol and
it's not getting to a point where it's causing you problems.
So, depending on what way you want to take the meaning, you
can, you can take it as being curious about being sober.
But I think it's I think it's great because it's allowing
people to to have that option to kind of re-evaluate their
relationship with alcohol. Take time off and It's quite a
cute, fun word, I think the people of people can use.
So, yeah, I speak to people all the time and I think it's just
great that. Now, people have a term to kind
of say, how they're feeling of like, basically, I wanna maybe
experiment with sobriety but I'm not sure if I'm ready to fully
commit yet, so I think it's great that that term has come in
right? And so that actually I love
this, you're teaching me. So please correct me.
If I say that, I don't know you're a world girl.
So you know, But so that's actually not meaning necessarily
that people are gonna be sober forever.
Forever. This is, you know, so we're
curious is going to take time to acknowledge what my relationship
is with alcohol and maybe pull back in some ways, but I'm not
actually having to commit to full sobriety, I guess.
Is that correct? Yeah, it's a bit like I've ever
heard the term like flexitarian, love it.
Yes, yeah, it is, isn't it like that?
It's like, I don't know. Your kind of large.
We a non-drinker, but when you want to, you may have the odd
drinks. That's a, quite the kind of way
that Ruby defines her sober curiosity.
Yeah, I love that. And honestly, it's interesting
because that makes me feel like, okay, maybe I'm allowed to be in
the club because I'm I'm, I'm that way where I actually.
I'll share just a little bit quickly about me.
I don't want to talk about me too much, but I had a moment a
few years ago when I was really struggling and I got into a
habit of drinking quite a bit. And for me, it was At the point
where I was like, like you said, like waking up and drinking in
the morning or, you know, it wasn't, I wasn't even really
getting to the point of having blackouts or anything.
It wasn't necessarily a long-term thing.
It was quite short term like over a few months, but I did get
to the point where I noticed little habits were coming up,
like I was kind of hiding it from people, like hiding that I
was drinking, maybe more than other people.
You know, I was that person who is like, let's get shots like I
was just, you know, a bit of a pusher like it just started to
become a bit like not what I want.
To do and so I did do this similar to this, where I decided
like, okay, I'm going to take a break.
I'm not going to drink for a while and now like I barely I
really don't drink that much like I used to, in so funny, in
comparison. I used to think, you know,
especially during lockdown, oh my God, almost every night was
like, okay, around 5:00 time to have, you know, my glass of wine
sit down in front of the couch, veg out.
And then like you just do it. The next day, repeat, repeat,
repeat. And you know, it was so
unhealthy for My mental health and I realized like, okay, like
I don't want to do that or I don't want this to be a part of
my routine. You know.
I don't want to think of like yeah my nights is being like
this quiet time where I'm like, either by myself at home having
a drink where I am actually alone or just with my partner or
oh, I need to justify drinking. So now I need to go out to be
with friends so that I can drink.
Like I realized how much shame there was and how it really was
creeping up on me. So it's cool that now I'm at a
place where I'm like somewhere Mixed in there.
It's like I can still drink, but I definitely am aware of my
relationship with it. And now it's funny because in
friends, this is within my friend group and people that I
see like it's very normalized, but people will say, like, oh, I
need a drink and even just half he's like, oh, I need a drink to
me. It just I get a little ping in
my stomach because it just makes me scared knowing that that
person actually does feel that way.
I'm like, yeah, I'm like, if you need a drink like that's, let's
talk about that, you know, like in everyone Many one, but it is,
it scares me a little bit because I do understand that
feeling and thankfully, I've been able to kind of separate
myself from that and then obviously, you know, not there
anymore. Thank God.
But at the time it does feel like that it feels like yeah.
Oh I need this thing. I need to use this thing to
change my state of mind, but because it's so normalized.
It's like not a big deal, it's great.
Yeah. Yeah.
But I would say, you'll definitely say the Curious from
what you're saying about your relationship with alcohol.
You're definitely in the club. Amazing.
Well, for people who are, I guess at this point right now,
maybe they're listening and they're like, oh wow, this
actually is something that I think is a bit of a, you know, a
quote-unquote problem for me or this is something that I want to
change in my life or maybe a just in some ways because I want
to like, bring up the quality of my life, in your perspective are
there like first steps. There's there an any initial
things you need to do to like get going with this.
Yeah, so that the first piece of advice I always Is gave, is that
I don't need, you can change your relationship with alcohol
until you actually understand your relationship with alcohol.
So I think it's asking us elves, two questions.
The big one is, why why do you drink like, do you drink because
everyone else drinks. Do you drink?
Because it makes you more confident?
Do you drink? Because you think that you can
only have interesting conversations with people.
So getting to the root of why you drink and then kind of like,
who do you drink around? Like are there are their friends
that always make like snide comments about you.
You and that makes you want a drink or, you know, family
members constantly asking you why you're not engaged yet.
And does that make you want to drink?
And, you know, the where question are there places that
you drink more than you want to? So, just like the who, what,
where, why all of those just get really kind of curious about
your relationship. We have a journaling cause not
to forget that at. So guys, I do, which is got,
like loads of these if you don't want to you know, sweet hand it
and you want to just go through the questions.
It's quite good because and it ask yourself questions like You
know what, my life look like if I stop drinking, you know what,
why would I choose to do it at what do I think the barriers are
going to be? Do I think there's going to be
certain friends that going to, you know, be funny about it.
So just working out all of those questions.
I think is understand your relationship with alcohol is the
first kind of Port of Call to changing it.
And then I think absorbing yourself in this like corner of
the internet that has just exploded over the last few years
is dedicated to so the Curiosity sobriety so wherever that is.
But because Podcast, you know, bloggers and influencers.
There's there's so much out there that is available in terms
of resources and so much of it free as well, which is just
fantastic. And then, the third thing, I
would say is try and find like-minded people and I don't
think that necessarily needs to be a sober Community especially
if you're kind of the still in that saver, curious realm.
But if say, you know, your friends are just going out every
weekend drinking and you actually want to do something
different. The Joiner hiking group or a
running group or a knitting group, like whatever you want to
do. So sorry, Nikki great.
Sounds really boring, doesn't it?
But you know, improve anything you want to do?
It is to kind of find like-minded people and try and
start doing things that don't necessarily revolve around
alcohol. Yeah, I really love that.
I think that's so good. What you said not just you know
trying to specifically go out and go clubbing, but Without
alcohol. Like, I think, people think
that, you know, you think. Okay.
Let's go. You know, prove that we can do
that thing that we love when we're drunk, but we're gonna do
it sober but it's like sometimes you go into those spaces and you
realize, like, oh this is actually like not necessarily a
space, I would be in if I wasn't drinking because it's a lot
more, it's loud, or it's sweaty, or I don't like this is this,
like I kind of went through that as well.
Where I, at one point was just like, I don't like going out,
like, quote, unquote, going out Like, I don't like clubbing.
I don't like, you know, that lifestyle and it was so
frustrating for me because I was always like, I don't have
friends like that. Do other things than this is,
like what I have to do with my time.
And I always felt like I was wasting all my time.
My money like so much. And like you said, like, even
making mistakes having these like regrets and just feeling
really frustrated. And obviously, you know, you had
a longer Journey with that, but I think it was just, it's
interesting to me to hear that there are other ways to go.
About it than just forcing yourself to do the same damn
thing. But like, yeah, I think what I
realize is like, I don't know if you felt the same, but I just
became a lot pickier with like where I would go out.
So that when I was drinking, you could drop me in a warehouse in
the middle of nowhere and some dodgy Rave.
And I'd be like, this is great. I'm having the best time where
is now? I think I'm like, okay, I like
clubs that have got good music that I like that have like it's
not too loud so I can speak to my friends, they have really
good non-alcoholic Option, so is not, it's not that I never go
out, but I also don't just go out every single weekend like I
used to, I think it's more about finding that balance of, you
know, going out and also not going totally know, I always say
like, I basically just run a daycare all day for myself,
like, that's what I did. I love the arts and crafts, like
I love the music. I love, like, that's what I
know. I'm a very chill person and so
like, you know, as I could, you know, I could go out.
Out here and there for a little boogie with my friends but it's
not something that I would do on like a regular basis.
And so it's just it is really nice and encouraging to like,
see not just you, but obviously because you created this
community. Now, an example in so many
different peoples lives, like what it looks like to live that
way. Consistently because I think
when you're so wrapped up in it, when you're so wrapped up in,
you know, that friend group or a certain lifestyle, it just seems
like almost impossible at the start.
Like, it seems like you know, I'm not going to do that.
Like it just seems like out of the Yeah, but it really can be
like the best option. The best thing that you could do
if you, you know, are there and you're like, okay yes, I'm
ready, you know, yeah, and you have to be ready.
I think that's the thing because so many people I think on, on
Reggie, and that's fine. Like the time will cast.
Yeah. And you know what?
You mentioned about family and friends and how it can be
frustrating and you might have to have some frustrating
conversations, or you might feel a bit judged at the start.
What did that? Look like for you.
Did you feel that? Yeah, it was.
It was really interesting. Actually I would say my friends
were, were kind of a bit ambivalent in terms of there was
no strong reaction either way and I think Looking Back Now
it's because they didn't believe that I was going to do it so I
don't think they you know they all were like yeah cool.
Let's just let her get it out of her system and then I remember I
was going on holiday with my friend.
We were going to travel in and she was like, oh, you are going
to drink while we're away that. Why aren't you?
And I This point, I'm not drunk for like six months and I was
like, no I'm not. And then I kind of saw the
realization dawned on the hair. I think by that point it was too
late. Because I think they were like,
oh well, you know, we've seen that she's happier, we've seen
that she's like enjoying a life more.
I think they felt at that point. They couldn't really say
anything so I was really lucky in that respect.
I didn't get too much harsh, judgment the Judgment.
I'd tend to get tends to be from strangers which is yeah.
Like, if I'm, I don't know if I'm away, and we end up talking
to like, a group of people, and they say, oh, like joy and drink
and I'm like, oh no, I don't drink.
That's when I get the comments as I.
Oh God, how boring or? Yeah, I think, I think it's the
strange as that seems have the strongest opinion, which is
funny, so, but I'd, it doesn't bother me.
I think it did at the beginning, but I honestly couldn't care
less. I mean, yeah.
And I think it's interesting. I'm like, how are people?
So out of touch that like, you couldn't be a Read enough to
understand. Not like there are so many
reasons why someone might not drink, like just so many like
you really never know, like someone's mental health,
someone's physical health, you know, everything.
There's so many different things and yeah, that that bothers me.
I'm like, yeah, I hate that. I hate people.
Yeah, we'll just have their opinions and that's fine, but
yeah, not for me things too. Like, I always wonder if people
can be more reactive, if they think.
I think. Oh, that's insane in.
Like I should do that, but I'm not going to do that.
So I'm just going to say that this is crazy.
Yeah, I don't I don't like to always, you know, casters as
version. What do you think?
A lot of it is that you're holding a mirror up there
drinking, and I only really know this because that's how I used
to react. If, you know, if you wanted to
go home early, or they weren't drinking quick enough, I took
that as like, oh God, I'm going to be really drunk.
They're going to see how drunk I am and, you know, them drinking
normalize my drinking. So when, when people say things
to me, Like, just you, why? In a few years, you'll be asking
myself, if you did, they'll be reading your book like, oh God,
it's by the way. Can you tell us about?
Tell us about the book and how that came about?
Yeah, who is like the same girl Society.
Hamburg is the book and there's some amazing.
Don't get me wrong. It's a variety of books out
there. A fantastic load, but there
wasn't for me. Anything that I was kind of
targeted it at a slightly younger.
The demographic and the one that really focusing on mental health
because I think that was like my biggest kind of thing.
And so I wanted to write a book that wasn't necessarily like
there's lots of tips and advice for quitting drinking, but for
me the hardest part laughter like stopping was actually
navigating Life as a person who didn't drink.
So you so much of the book is tailored to like, you know, my
tips for going to a wedding sober, or bottom has been sober
or festivals over all those Things.
You know, cyber dating as a big once-over, sex is a big one so
it's really like a an actual handbook.
It does what it says on the cover of like advice and tips of
how you can navigate these situations, how you can have
those conversations with your friends.
What to do with peer pressure? So, yeah, it's a, it's quite a
just tips and advice really, there's everything.
I know that I've learned about being a, so the human in a very
busy world. That's so beautiful.
I love that in so many things that you just mentioned.
I was like, I didn't even think about that.
Like, yeah. Oh my God, thank that initial
like sexual encounter with someone, you know, being sober
like it is such a different experience.
Like, wow, did you do you find that?
That's a good thing. Like now, you know laughs now
where you are? Do you now look at it and go oh
my gosh, I can't believe that I'm, you know, missed out on
this. Or do you feel like it's a mix
of two things? Are you in two minds about it?
Like where are you? Yeah, I think it's a mix of a
mix of two things because I think it's no matter with a lot
of things that you can practice, they get easier, but I think
with sober sex, if you're doing it with a new person, if it
doesn't matter how many times you practice over 6 for the
first time, it still awkward with someone for the first time.
So that's the only time I'd say it's it's slightly different, so
it is always a bit scary. But I do think in such a like
sounds really wishy-washy but I feel like really pretty.
Resin and in my body during this over sex.
And it is a totally different experience for me, I think.
And I think I will have to, I feel quite like connected to the
person that I'm having sex with. I think we're not, when I'm
sober. So it is, is a totally different
experience, but I have really learned to enjoy it.
And that is now definitely how I would always prefer to have sex,
but I think younger me would be, like, what is she talking about?
Well, Because it's interesting because I talk a lot about
sexual Wellness across like the podcast in Tick-Tock and
whatever. And I've had so many people,
I've heard this piece of advice when women are struggling with
their libido or they're struggling to become wet during
sex or whatever. It is the piece of advice,
literally that people have gotten from their doctors and
from people in the field is like have a glass of wine.
Have a glass. Yeah it'll loosen you up, you
know it'll it'll even make your body respond and you know, start
to create that. Environment to be having sex in
like and I'm always like, so shocked when I hear that, people
are getting this piece of advice from Professionals in this field
because it is so normalized. To the point that you have a
doctor, telling you like all. Let's put toxins in your body
part like in. Yeah, let's put this thing in
your body to get you to want that thing.
It's crazy to me. Like it's so normalized.
Yeah. And also kind of incorrect
because so alcohol, dehydrates you.
So the science is actually it's harder for you.
Get wet if you've been drinking and also you say orgasms are
like made in the brain and alcohol can affect your brain.
So, actually, it's harder for people to orgasm.
So it's crazy to me that they would kind of give out that
advice. Yeah, it's why on?
Yeah, and that's so exactly what you've just said.
Like it actually can do the opposite.
It's so silly. All these things especially that
we learn about sex or I should say, we don't learn about sex,
how it affects us down the road. And then we're making these
weird decisions. Try to like fix our sex lives or
fix our relationships and it just, you know, doesn't actually
do it. Wow, that's interesting.
Yeah, there's a Shakespeare quote that I wrote In the book
and I might be butchering it now, but it's something like
alcohol provokes. The desire but takes away the
performance. So basically, the theory is that
alcohol? Yes, it could make you a little
bit horny or which is why the doctors are probably prescribing
and people with low libido. When it actually comes to the
performance of the whole thing is.
It's not going to help it really takes away the performance so it
might get you in the mood but then the actual thing will
probably be let down. Yeah and I mean obviously that's
a very common experience of people have with alcohol in
general like the night before you know thinking you look so
hot on the dance floor and then like seeing a video or something
the next day and being like a shocking experience.
Let me tell you. Yeah, yeah even like that.
You know, you really think you're Doing something in the
moment and then you're really not like like great and about
your book. Like when people have gone
through your book and worked through it, do you feel like
they've realized that there was more to why they were drinking?
Do you think there are a lot of deeper layers that people will
start to uncover as they go into the sobriety, or even being
sober curious. Yeah, it definitely, I think,
because the books arches on so many different topics.
I think you don't think about how You know, it can affect you.
So like even I do any kind of doubt into it briefly but
without alcohol and spirituality and about how there's ideas
around alcohol, you know, poking holes in your aura and lowering
your vibration, so your intuition isn't as good and
things like that. And I think the Envy were like,
oh yeah, actually like I kind of get that.
And, you know, I didn't really think about a lot of the money
aspect of drinking. Although I'd kind of spent a lot
of money on alcohol. I didn't think about all the
other things, really, that kind of Come with it.
And the amount, the indirect amount of things I spent.
And you know why? I was thinking that alcohol was
good for mental health when it was.
And I think I think there's so many things that you could go
through and be like, oh yeah, actually that is happening to
me. And I have just kind of brushed
yet over the car under the car, right?
Yeah. Interesting.
Yeah. I think that it's so easy for
people to be like avoidant with things.
You know it's so easy to just kind of like yeah, brush things
away and really try to I guess diminish, some things that you
don't have to see the reality of something because I think a lot
of the time people will be so defensive like if this defensive
are like, oh but I'm not a, you know, I'm not an alcoholic or
like, oh, I don't have a problem or they they think that, you
know, there would be something so innately wrong with them, or,
you know, there must be something going on with them,
but sometimes it really comes down to like, very specific
things like, lifestyle or just like who you're around.
And I think that advice that you gave was so good on being aware
of Like, who you're around and doing the who, what, where when
why kind of questions, because it really does help you like
analyze your situation. I love that when you stopped
drinking, when you would go out, I know you post heaps about like
mocktails and all of that. Can you talk about that?
And how you got into it? And if you love it, now, if you
hate it, do you find it annoying?
Where are we at? Yeah, yes.
I think my relationship with alcohol.
Free drinks has really changed over the years.
I think, when I first talked to There actually wasn't much
around five years ago. So it wasn't something that I
kind of got straight into, but then as they started emerging
like, it was so exciting for me as a person who was like a year
sober to hear that they were bringing out the world's first
alcohol. Free spirit and I was like oh my
God, this is like amazing. So I kind of got in there from
the very beginning in getting interested in it because all
this stuff just started like coming out and felt like it was
tailored just for me because I felt like I was the only person
that wasn't drinking the so So I was like this is great so I'm
really got into them over the last few years.
I think some of them are just doing things on a different
level and you know now there's everything from Spirit Wine beer
and they're all getting really good and I love seeing the
things that people come out with.
I think it's great. I just think the the kind of
invention of some of them is brilliant.
And some of the brands are really lovely, and he's just
really exciting. Every time a new one gets
launched. I'm like, I can't wait to try
it. It's become a bit of a passion
that was. So I love and we're very lucky
in the UK. The movement is like, really
kind of taking Force, which is great.
So, that we've got so many options here.
Yeah. So obviously, yeah, you're in
the, like, you're in the UK and you have this community and
everything. What are you doing with the
community? Like you guys meet up or the
events? Yes, so we have event.
So we have virtual events so every Saturday we have sober
also be curious Club. So people Can come on a zoom
call and just basically chat like this and talk about, you
know, their tips and things they've struggled with this
week. So I'm always very clear with
not a recovery program. We are a community, so it's not,
you know. One person standing up and
saying, this is what you need to do.
It's just people sharing and talking and then we have in real
life events. So we have things like booze was
brunches. We do regular like mixes and
then my favorite event that we do.
So, it sounds really silly but like one of the biggest things
that people said to me, like when Or say to me when they say
no they couldn't give up alcohol is they say I couldn't get on a
dance floor sober. So I was like, okay, goodbye.
If this is such a big problem that is Rectify it.
So we started doing these dance classes, which basically help
to, you know, give women the constants gonna dance or sober.
So they're, like, basic choreography.
We just all get in a room and it's amazing because people come
into the room, and they are so nervous and so terrified, and
then they leave so sassy and like really confident and in the
Howard. And I just love Of seeing that
the transformation. It's just amazing to me.
So that that's one of the best events that I think we do.
I love that, that's so cool. I remember once I went to like a
pole dancing class and I remember showing up and being
like, I don't know, you just think like, you know, feel so
like sexy and I got there and I was like, oh my God, I was like,
it was so scared, you know? But you really get into it like,
it's crazy. Yeah, probably so hard though.
I've Dr. Pawan, he's so hard. They make it look so easy and
it, isn't it? Is it crazy like you?
It looks so elegant, you know, it looked like a night and then
you do it and it's like meant to hurt.
Like, I remember, I had my hands on the pole and she was like yep
like swing you know your leg around here like hook around and
then the other one swings around as well.
Not like go straight and I like felt like I was doing it wrong.
And she said to me, all you should feel a pinching feeling
like Amy and I was like, what do you mean I should be like, hey,
what are you talking about? And I literally had like a
bruise the next day like On my inner knee like on my ankle and
I was like, oh my God. Like, how do people live like
this? Yes, a silo hard, so hard.
So people, if they come to your events, they don't have to worry
about pole dancing, just yet. No, no, we are didn't burlesque
event in February actually, but no poles.
Oh my gosh. I love that and I love that.
You have a community like locally and obviously you'd have
a really like a nice sized Community there and then you do
something as well for people. Believe because like I would
love to hop on a call and you know, just talk to people and I
love it. I love the idea of hearing about
how other people are working around it because I do find like
there is shame some time to talk about these things with your
friends. Like I think people are scared
to like cross that threshold of saying to anybody like oh I
think, you know, I might want to like slow down on drinking or I
might want to take some like a week off or even, you know, take
a month off. I think people sometimes think
so, if I make people think that That there's something going on
with me then all their shame around, you know, my mental
health, or whatever going on, do you have any advice to that?
Like if you are going and telling people for the first
time, like going to take some time off or I think I'm, you
know, thinking about sobriety or so, being sober, curious, or
whatever. Do you have any advice for
someone in that place? Yeah, I think I think always
being really honest and vulnerable is the best way.
If you feel like you can be, I think when I first kind of
approach telling my friends, I just kind of said Like I know I
look like I'm having a really good time actually like drinking
is kind of making me really miserable and I'd really love
it. If you could like support me, I
think when you approach people with honesty and with
vulnerability, you will just get love back if those people really
care about you. And if they don't give you love
that, it is a hard one because I think you will get some negative
reactions and some people are like, oh, you know, cut them off
straight away which I don't think it should always be the
case. Because I think sometimes
people, We'll do it is then automatically action because
it's alcohol is so normalized so that is there like gut reaction
is oh no, you can't do that. And then I think you know they
take time to come around and it's likely, they will come
around. So I think you know you have to
just put it out there and then what comes back comes back and
then you just see how it kind of goes.
So I think yeah, but being honest I think is the best thing
you can do and you know, asking for help is such a brave thing
to do. I think You know, anyone who
loves you will kind of respect that.
Yeah, I think that's so good. So true.
And you know, if you do have somebody in your life, who isn't
supportive about, you know, this, then what are they
supportive about? You know what I mean?
Like this is he saying this is, you know, this is my mental
health. This is something that I need to
prioritize. And I think anyone who, you
know, is in your life, should want you to prioritize your
mental health, prioritize you and would want to stand there.
With you as well. So yeah.
Wow. Well I wanted to ask you one
last question before we head out today, just wanted to see your
top three favorite things that you are loving about being
sober. And if there are three things
that could convince somebody, like, you can do this.
What are those three things? Oh, the three things I love
about me and say that. Okay, so my mental health is
just so much better, I think and I don't want anyone to think.
Oh yeah, you'd stop drinking. To health great.
But I think it when I took alcohol, way allowed me to
actually address the problems the one to need.
So I got myself to therapy. I side, you know, doing things
that will better for my mental health.
So for me, like love being calm and consistence that's like the
biggest one for me. And number two is I love having
more money and I actually spend money on things that I really
want and like have nice clothes and and all the things.
And I thought I was sometimes by things, I think are a little A
bit more expensive than I would normally pay.
But then I'm like, the amount of money that I used to waste on
alcohol. I always feel like I can justify
it. So that's always a good thing.
And then the last thing I think is the relationship that I have
with the people. I love.
I think I was always such a shit, flaky friend, you know, I
would cause drama or nights out and arguments and then I would
miss things the next day, because I was hungover.
I would turn up to like birthday parties, hungover, and baby
showers. Hello.
Erin. I think now I'm such a reliable
friend and like my friend got married last year and I was a
bridesmaid and I got all the jobs because I was reliable and
they knew that I was the one who could be trusted and that for me
is like I was never that person so that is really great.
So yeah the relationships that I have with my friends and family,
I think of yeah, so much better. There's so beautiful.
And it's so nice that you can be that person for somebody.
Like it's nice that You can be grounding for somebody and just
knowing that you can provide that in like any space that you
go to, like, I've heard you say this before, as well on your
social media, but even just like, you never have to worry
about like driving and how you're going to get places.
Like you're always able to yeah, you know, you're you know,
you're going to get home safe, you know, you don't have to
worry about it and even even just that on a regular basis.
If you're wondering, you know, I have to make sure I get home
safe or I have to plan my life this way, or that way, even that
little bit of it. ID happening on a consistent
basis. Like that's just one example of
how much alcohol can bring like - mental health effects to your
life. So, yeah, absolutely.
Well, thank you so, so much. Thank you so much for coming on
today and for sharing all your wisdom, like I just so
appreciate everything that you do.
Like I feel like the community like I've said, probably a
million times now is just like the best thing in the world and
you have become that like you've become that supportive.
Person not just for your community but now for my
community as well. And of course you're going to
keep expanding your going to keep growing and I just like
wish you the best in all the things that you are doing and
everything with a handbook and everything because I just know
that it is serving such a beautiful purpose.
So thank you for existing. You're the best.
Thank you. Thank you for existing for
having me. It's a lovely to talk to Jay and
if we can come and find you and find the handbook, where should
we go? Yes, I the best to place is
probably Instagram. I'd say, so it's at Millie Gucci
if you want to come and see me. It's mainly pictures of like my
dog and mocktails and then save a girl Society for the
community. So on Instagram, beautiful love
that. Thank you so much and everything
will be linked below for you guys as well.
Thank you so much Billy. We'll see you next time.
Bye. Thank you.