1 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,200 Welcome to Big EARS conversations about music. 2 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:27,950 I'm your host Sarah Gilletti. In this episode, music 3 00:00:27,950 --> 00:00:31,750 journalist Liz Pelley sits down with two young songwriters 4 00:00:32,189 --> 00:00:36,830 reimagining roots and Americana on their own terms, Hayden 5 00:00:36,830 --> 00:00:41,360 Pettigo and SG Goodman. Pettigo, A fingerstyle guitarist 6 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,560 and instrumental songwriter, reflects on how growing up in 7 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:49,800 Texas shaped his music and how it didn't, while Goodman 8 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,680 explores her connection to Kentucky's storytelling 9 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,920 tradition and how ideas like Planting by the Signs and 10 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,520 regional colloquialisms find their way into her songs. 11 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,800 The conversation contrasts their distinct approaches to 12 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,680 songwriting while revealing their share challenge of 13 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,240 transcending expectation and genre in a post everything 14 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,560 world. Both artists will be performing 15 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:16,160 at the Big Ears Festival in Knoxville coming up March 26th 16 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,440 through 29th. Let's take a listen. 17 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,200 Hi, I'm Liz. I'm a music journalist space in 18 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,040 Brooklyn. I'm grateful to Big Ears for the 19 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,040 invitation to speak with you both. 20 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,040 I've really enjoyed the opportunity to get to spend some 21 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:39,000 time with both of your most recent records and reading a 22 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,200 little bit more about your work as a result of this. 23 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,920 Just to kind of ground us in this conversation, if you could 24 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,240 each start by just telling me a little bit about where you are 25 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,840 calling in from. And maybe then in addition to 26 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,400 kind of like geographically grounding us, maybe if you could 27 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,000 just tell me a little bit about like the season of life that 28 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,560 you're in right now? I'm hid Pedigo from Amarillo, 29 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,320 TX, but moved to Oklahoma City last year. 30 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,760 That's where I'm where I'm at right now. 31 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,680 I make instrumental guitar music. 32 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,080 It's kind of kind of country music, maybe like, in the 33 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:18,000 literal sense of like, where I'm from, don't use much pedal 34 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,240 steel. Yeah, I guess it's kind of like 35 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,960 experimental, you know, country music. 36 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,320 I guess I'm probably doing a bad job at describing it. 37 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,680 That was great. We I think I'm there with you. 38 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:34,640 Anyhow, I'm SG Goodman, currently chiming in from my 39 00:02:34,640 --> 00:02:41,120 kitchen table in Murray, KY. I just got off the road about a 40 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:46,240 little less than a week ago with a, a Western United States run. 41 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:51,760 So I just woke up about 20 minutes ago because I'm still on 42 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,640 that time zone. And as far as what I do on a 43 00:02:55,640 --> 00:03:00,800 good day, I make noise that folks don't run away from. 44 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:05,080 But I, I, I guess I consider myself, I'm singer-songwriter 45 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:12,080 kind of floating in the world of a country indie, whatever 46 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,080 Americana, you know, doesn't really matter. 47 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,960 But anyway, welcome to my kitchen table. 48 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,760 Well, thanks for having us in. And Hayden, are you like, in the 49 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:24,520 middle of a tour right now as well? 50 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:31,080 Yeah, I just got back from Europe tour, a six week Europe 51 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,240 tour and then and I played in Dartmouth, NS on Saturday. 52 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,160 So I got back last night from that and then I leave for a 7 53 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,200 week U.S. tour in like 7 days. Nice. 54 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:43,120 We're just home for a couple days. 55 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,400 We're all in the middle tours right now. 56 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,880 I literally I'm on a book tour right now. 57 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:50,000 I. Just got really. 58 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,400 Poland last night. I've basically been traveling 59 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,080 since August. But anyway, so we have like a 60 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,360 whole Zoom room of like fried people who are in the middle of 61 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,200 touring right now. Yeah. 62 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,800 Well, nice to meet you both to kind of like ground this 63 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,320 conversation. You know that we're we're 64 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,400 meeting in the context of big ears. 65 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:15,920 And at big ears, there are a lot of people on the lineup, like 66 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,560 amazing names on the lineup of artists who operate sort of more 67 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:24,760 in the realm of improvisation or maybe musicians that don't have 68 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,080 quite the same kind of relationship to song craft. 69 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,280 But there is this thread running through the lineup as well of 70 00:04:31,280 --> 00:04:34,080 just like really incredible songwriters. 71 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,080 So I think a part of the reason why this conversation is 72 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,200 convened just to sort of have have a conversation kind of 73 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,720 highlighting some of the songwriting represented on the 74 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:45,880 lineup. But yeah, to me, I feel like it 75 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,920 also kind of just lends itself to this really interesting 76 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:55,040 opportunity to think about maybe relationship to genre, which 77 00:04:55,040 --> 00:05:00,960 obviously is contested and complicated thing that we all 78 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,200 sort of know is like a tool of the marketplace. 79 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,600 But also like, I don't know, I while I was listening to both of 80 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:12,480 your music, I was thinking like SG about how I feel like your 81 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,680 music kind of seems to like have this relationship with tradition 82 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,880 in a way that I think is really cool and then hate it. 83 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,320 And I felt like your music is sort of like almost like 84 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,880 commenting on genre and, you know, interesting way or like 85 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,120 engaging with it as a tool maybe. 86 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,000 So I was just wondering if maybe we could kick things off from 87 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,120 there. If like you could both sort of 88 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:37,240 reflect a little bit on like, yeah, like where you see the 89 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,760 type of music that you make in this lineup or like your 90 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:46,000 relationship with the genre as either like a tradition or tool, 91 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:50,040 or is it an idea that you like think about or reject? 92 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,880 Yeah, You know, I, I, I think something great about Big Ears 93 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:59,440 is it seems like even with, you know, people who might be 94 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:01,960 considered more in the traditional vein of 95 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,960 singer-songwriter, I think there's always an element of 96 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:10,080 left of center quality about the lineup. 97 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:14,520 Even with the, you know, I guess I would consider myself a 98 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:21,120 spirit, especially lyrically that I do, especially with my 99 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:26,120 most recent album Planted by the Signs and a lot of other songs 100 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:31,080 I've written, I really am into kind of traditional narrative 101 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,040 form. But that doesn't mean that your 102 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,640 music has to do that. You know, I always make the 103 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,680 joke. I did say like country, indie or 104 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,160 whatever. But the truth is, is I don't 105 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,920 really think I have a lot of songs in my entire repertoire 106 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:51,400 that I would consider, you know, truly country. 107 00:06:52,280 --> 00:06:56,600 But I am from the South and I do have a very thick accent and I 108 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,520 think when I'm speaking with journalists or public facing 109 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,120 that people really can't get over that. 110 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,760 And so even if I came out with the most, you know, crunchy punk 111 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:12,080 song anybody's ever written, they would call it country. 112 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:16,200 So it doesn't really matter. Genre is a thing, just like you 113 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:26,520 said, it is really a tool of the marketplace and it is in a lot 114 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:31,160 of respects, I think can be a useful tool, but also a really 115 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:38,240 harmful tool for artists to be pigeonholed in a way or to have 116 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:42,280 like a little bulletin on top of their record that describes it. 117 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:47,920 Because a lot of people, I mean, especially country, and I don't 118 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:52,840 know if you experienced this with describing yours as country 119 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,400 instrumental, but a lot of people, even though it's a very 120 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:00,880 trendy thing right now, country music isn't something everyone 121 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,960 likes, you know? And so I have a hard time 122 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,440 describing what I do because, yeah, there's always this fear, 123 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:11,720 like, especially if you say something like Americana, like 124 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,240 what it what is that even? You know, it's such a huge 125 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:20,720 umbrella, but I, I think I, I don't really care so much about 126 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:28,360 genre because I do kind of see its limitations not only for the 127 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,040 artist, but especially for the listener. 128 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,640 You know, takes away a lot for people, I think. 129 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,400 Doesn't give them a chance of discovery. 130 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:41,159 It already colors something. That's what I'll say about that. 131 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,120 Yeah. I mean, I don't know, I think 132 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,360 about this a lot because I feel like kind of what you're saying 133 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,200 is sometimes you can get pegged as country just because where 134 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,120 you happen to be from. And it's like me, it's like I'm 135 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,520 from Amarillo, TX, which is like a place that seems like a very 136 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:57,600 country place. But for me, like what I was 137 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,800 listening to when I was younger, I didn't really start listening 138 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,800 to country music until I found Terry Allen when I was like 16 139 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,960 or 17. And I mean, and he's a weird 140 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,840 person to even reference his country music because I mean, he 141 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,680 has that famous quote where he was like someone asked him if he 142 00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:17,800 made country music and he said what country and, and laughed 143 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:19,560 about it. And I think Terry Allen for me 144 00:09:19,560 --> 00:09:23,040 was a perfect example of that of someone from Lubbock, TX, which 145 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,640 wasn't far from me just doing kind of whatever he wanted. 146 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,200 But it's like the John, the genre thing for me is kind of 147 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:34,720 weird because I, I, I have used, you know, American primitive or 148 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,520 ambient country or things like that to my advantage where I can 149 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,400 recognize that there's an audience to be gained by doing 150 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,800 that, by by being willing to be associated with it. 151 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:46,640 It's kind of a tough thing because even for me, over the 152 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,480 past few years, it's like I've slowly just started using less 153 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,120 and less pedal steel on my music. 154 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,320 Like, I like the pedal steel, but I even started thinking 155 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,440 about it of like pedal seals, kind of like lobster Mac and 156 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,880 cheese or something of like pedal steel sounds really nice. 157 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,280 It's like putting lobster on something because it tastes 158 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,160 really good. But yeah, the question like, did 159 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,280 does this need lobster on top of it? 160 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,800 And that's not like an insult to pedal steel. 161 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,800 I love pedal steel. But it's it's me trying to 162 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,040 separate myself just a little bit from the country thing. 163 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:21,160 And, you know, I've had a lot of, you know, music journalists 164 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,360 come up to me saying I was surprised he did that Pitchfork 165 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:26,640 Perfect 10 on a James Ferraro record. 166 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,240 That doesn't seem like something you would listen to. 167 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:31,840 And it's like for me, I'm just kind of, well, I didn't really 168 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,040 listen to a lot of country, country music. 169 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,960 And sometimes I think people don't really say I listen to a 170 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,520 lot of experimental music and that's kind of like the world I 171 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:42,760 came out of. And, you know, sometimes I wear 172 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:46,320 a cowboy hat and press photos slightly as like satirical also 173 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,000 because I just think it looks cool. 174 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,440 I think it it, it, it looks cool. 175 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,720 And what's funny is this like, I can go to Paris and people think 176 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:55,760 you're from Texas. You're like a cowboy where I'm 177 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,440 like, you know, if I wear a cowboy hat in Amarillo where I'm 178 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:03,520 from, I would be made fun of by like actual Cowboys. 179 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,640 Like it would be like really embarrassing to do that. 180 00:11:07,680 --> 00:11:09,360 But I don't know. I think when it comes down to 181 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,800 genre, I think we're in such a post. 182 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:18,000 Everything age now where you know, I remember when 100 Gecks 183 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,680 came out, I knew it was like all over, like everything's 184 00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:23,080 finished. Like all of these kids are 185 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,200 listening to so much terminally. They're like terminally online 186 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,640 listening to everything. Everyone knows about everything. 187 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,560 There's like 14 year olds listening to Morton Feldman or 188 00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:35,120 something because they're on richer music, which is cool. 189 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:39,960 But I'm this this will lead to an totally extended rant, but 190 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,480 I'm nervous about this post Everything age of accessibility, 191 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,480 because I was thinking about we're losing regional music 192 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,360 because everyone's so influenced by everything that there's 193 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,200 really, there's no like there's not going to be sacred Harp 194 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,200 music anymore. I mean, it's like Sacred Heart 195 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,320 music is like weirdo basement producer kids. 196 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,320 Like that's, that's like regional music. 197 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,720 It's like some 13 year old kid producing on Fruity Loops in 198 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,840 Baltimore or something, which is cool, but I don't know what I'm 199 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:08,480 saying. I probably need to stop now. 200 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,800 No, I, I think that makes a lot of sense. 201 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:17,200 And especially when you're talking about losing, you know, 202 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:21,680 regional music, it's, it's one thing that I, I tried to pay 203 00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:25,160 attention to or I don't, I don't know if I'd do it super 204 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,800 purposefully, but I think that's like the power. 205 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,000 You know, I have lyrics in my record, so I use a lot of 206 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:36,520 colloquialisms, you know, things that are very region specific. 207 00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:42,960 But I, I do agree with you. It's like, you know, a lot of 208 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:50,080 people tried to imitate, you know, certain bluegrass sounds 209 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:55,440 or whatever, but they do not have like an old time voice or 210 00:12:55,440 --> 00:13:01,120 history with it, you know? And I think that that does come 211 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,640 through sometimes. But yeah, that's, that's 212 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,680 interesting. What you said about it may be 213 00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:11,560 causing an issue with preserving actual regional tradition within 214 00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:12,560 music. That's cool. 215 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,960 Yeah, well, I think like it sounds a bit like I'm 216 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:19,880 complaining a bit, but I do feel like we are in the Indy twang 217 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:25,320 epidemic where it's like it it's it's very popular to make like 218 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,360 kind of country adjacent music with. 219 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:30,880 And you know, sometimes you, you know, like you can take it 220 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,080 personally because you'll see certain people doing it. 221 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,040 It's like you're not even from there. 222 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,520 Like, you know, it's like I feel like I can be kind of a hater 223 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:42,560 about it, where it's like for me, it's I, I don't, I don't 224 00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:46,720 really have an accent, but sometimes I feel like I'm able 225 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,120 to, you know, it's like I can make fun of the cowboy how to 226 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,720 wear it because at least, you know, like I'm from from that 227 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,920 part of the world. But I can, I can acknowledge 228 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:56,840 that within the part of the world where I'm from, I'm not 229 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,760 even that, you know, it's just like, you know, I'm just more of 230 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,040 a normal person from, you know, a certain part of Texas. 231 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:08,360 But I don't know, it's, it's a, it's a weird time for this kind 232 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,080 of music, whatever this kind of music means, I don't know. 233 00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:15,800 Well, I just want to say back to the cowboy hat. 234 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,720 I think everybody should wear cowboy hats because it's just 235 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,640 healthy. It's just healthier for your 236 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,240 skin. And I was like a really pale 237 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,880 person. I think like, you know, we could 238 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:31,840 really do a lot of healing in our world if we just actually if 239 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,640 everybody just embraced the cowboy hat. 240 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:51,000 I'll never this world without saying what you. 241 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,800 Mean you kind of touched on this Interesting. 242 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,560 I can't remember the exact phrase you said, but you said 243 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:05,160 that like twang is having a moment or something like as. 244 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:06,240 Oh, indie. Twang. 245 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:08,800 Yeah, Indie Twang is having a moment. 246 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:13,200 I guess I I would be interested in as musicians here, you know, 247 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,040 from Kentucky, from Texas. Like, what do you what do you 248 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,480 make of this? Why do you think that this is 249 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:23,400 happening? Well, you know, since my first 250 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,920 record came out that I put out like in, you know, had a label 251 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:33,000 and things like 2020, which had pedal steel on it, you know, 252 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:34,800 went through a press cycle and everything. 253 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,800 Everybody was like scratching their head at how to describe 254 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,800 it, whatever. So I was called like indie 255 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:46,520 country, a lot country, adjacent rock, all that these different 256 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:51,920 things is twang. And then as the, you know, the 257 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:56,280 boom as as we're describing of a country, twang or whatever is 258 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,920 coming out. Most recently, I think it was 259 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,520 Brooklyn Vegan. They've always been nice to me, 260 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:06,560 but it was so funny where I've been called that like Bob 261 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:11,440 publications like that, possibly even that publication definitely 262 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,280 wasn't mentioned as that, even though I've been described that 263 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:21,360 way since 2020. And then it took like Patterson 264 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,920 Hood from the drive by truckers to like, say, and actually, this 265 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,160 person is, you know, been doing this for a really long time. 266 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:33,560 But I just think that's the way. I mean, you know, who fucking 267 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:35,160 cares? Like it it it does. 268 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:39,320 You know, who fucking cares about like what's hot? 269 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,920 It always happens. You know, just a few years ago 270 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,320 it was like pretty cool to see a bunch of women in like the sad 271 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:52,800 girl guitar music scene, you know, like the boy genius stuff 272 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:54,560 and everything. I mean, when I was like a 273 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,280 teenager or whatever, that was like a really male dominated 274 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:03,680 field, you know, of your kind of like emotional Moody music kind 275 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,359 of thing. So it's always just flipping and 276 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,520 flopping. And at the end of the day, like 277 00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:14,680 the reason I don't really feel like just dissecting these 278 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,599 moments and these booms, Like, good for you if you're riding 279 00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:20,079 that wave. But at the end of the day, it's 280 00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:24,480 like building community with your fan base that like what you 281 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,640 do. And because, yeah, that's the 282 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,280 only thing that's going to, like, outlive a fad. 283 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,600 That's very, very true. I mean, like, I don't know. 284 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,840 I think the reason why it's like having a moment right now is 285 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,240 just like, I think everyone hears like a Waylon Jennings 286 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,560 record and it's like, wow, this sounds really cool. 287 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:44,560 And I don't blame people for being like, man, this sounds 288 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,360 like really tight. I want to incorporate this into 289 00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:50,960 my sound. And the pedal still sounds cool. 290 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:55,480 And you know, everyone wants to be Jason Molina, which I don't 291 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:59,120 even, I mean, that guy wasn't that Jason Molina wasn't from 292 00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:00,680 the South. Where was he from? 293 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,200 Like Washington or something? I don't actually know his 294 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,120 origin. I mean, I know like he did. 295 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,800 Let's see, what was he on? Like secretly. 296 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,160 Or. Did that, which is out of 297 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:16,560 Indiana. I think really we're living in a 298 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,200 world where like, you know, we don't trust anything, We don't 299 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:24,480 believe anything. So hearing something as pure as 300 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:28,160 a pedal still is about as authentic of a sound and 301 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:33,360 reaching back to something that you can get almost I mean, other 302 00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:36,800 than maybe, I don't know, I would say like old fiddle music, 303 00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:40,000 all of a sudden you, you get like this little heart tug or 304 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,920 something. So I think it there's like, you 305 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:48,240 know, there's a shift like everybody was losing their mind 306 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,360 when who was it? Is it Olivia Rodrigo, that 307 00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:57,360 artist, big pop star put like an acoustic guitar in her in her 308 00:18:57,360 --> 00:19:00,560 record and everybody's like guitar is on its way back, you 309 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:06,800 know, And I I just think it's like a cycle of chasing like a 310 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:13,160 roar more true to you sound. And I think that when you put 311 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:18,080 that up against society, it just makes sense. 312 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,280 Yeah. I think it's more like people 313 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:26,440 are gravitating towards that. That's another reason why, you 314 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:32,120 know, which, like, definitely not a discussion I think anybody 315 00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:34,640 should have, like, what's real country music? 316 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:38,000 Who gives a shit? You know, we're kind of past 317 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,600 that now, which is streaming. I think it's about people really 318 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:46,160 are wanting to grasp onto an authentic identity of some sort 319 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,880 for themselves, you know, I think. 320 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:53,320 Yeah, still looks like that. And also, let's say, do you play 321 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,800 pedal steel? I don't, no. 322 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,560 Yeah, it's a freaking hard instrument. 323 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,800 If you are good at that, then one, you probably don't have 324 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:07,240 ADHD because there is a lot to be paying attention to. 325 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:12,320 You know, it is like a very hard instrument to master. 326 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,880 And the truth is, like I've been around who I would say is 327 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,560 probably the number 2 pedal steel player in all of 328 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,440 Nashville. Which would maybe make him like 329 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:26,200 the number 2 in like the world, you know, So if people are 330 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,880 really liking like the half assed slides to give a little 331 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:34,960 mood, that's really cool. Is it, you know, technically are 332 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,800 those players like savants and their instrument? 333 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,400 No, they're not. Because you know, it's it's an 334 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,480 extremely hard instrument to master. 335 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,120 Yeah, I think it's like the the 2 levels are like you're either 336 00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:51,280 red roads or you're like Jerry Garcia. 337 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,960 Like Jerry Garcia like was just like, oh, like I'm not very good 338 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,800 at this, but it sounds cool. And I think the steel is like, 339 00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:02,480 it reminds me of those old like pipe organist for churches that 340 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,960 are like one of five in the world that can play crazy pipe 341 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,160 organ music. It's like if you want to be a 342 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,520 good steel player, you do have to like devote your life just to 343 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,400 that one thing. It's not really meant as a 344 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:18,640 secondary instrument, but I think it's easy to sound good on 345 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,680 pedal steel, but it's incredibly difficult to be like really, 346 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,120 really good at pedal steel. But pedal steel is a cool 347 00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:26,800 instrument. I've, you know, I've obviously 348 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:31,400 used it on my on my records. Just to like push on the like 349 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,360 using genre as a tool kind of question one bit further. 350 00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:37,320 You know, Hayden, I was listening to an interview that 351 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:41,760 you did where you're talking about running for City Council 352 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,040 and you talked about how it kind of like started as a joke and 353 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:50,520 then it became serious. And I was thinking about that in 354 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,080 relation to this like photo of you kind of dressed as a cowboy. 355 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:57,040 And I was wondering if, like you thought of it in like a similar 356 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:58,200 way. Like, is it something that 357 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:04,520 starts started kind of like being funny and then became like 358 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,560 a more serious embrace? Or do you still kind of like do 359 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,160 you see those in relation to each other at all? 360 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,120 I would say I don't just because the City Council thing, I was a 361 00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:15,040 lot younger when that happened, but that was a thing that 362 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,920 started off as a joke and then became serious were me wearing a 363 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,920 cowboy hat and things like that. I still view it as partially 364 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,720 playing into a character. I mean, I use a lot of kind of 365 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,240 character in my music and you know, it's it's just like I 366 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,080 can't view that as becoming more serious because I don't I don't 367 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,680 wear the cowboy hat out in my like private day-to-day life. 368 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,160 I'll wear it for photos because I like, you know, how a photo 369 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:38,520 looks. But there's there's so much of 370 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,640 the music for me that is a character. 371 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,000 The thing I take very seriously is like the composition, 372 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,680 recording a record that sounds good, that that's what I take 373 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,200 like really serious. And I mean, it's something 374 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,040 that's always shifting is like recently when I play on stage, 375 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:54,320 I've been dressing like Jimmy Page. 376 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,640 I wear like bell bottoms and sweater vests and stuff. 377 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,760 And it's just like, I'm not Jimmy Page that that's like the, 378 00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:02,400 the extent of it is I thought it looked cool. 379 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,760 There's like not much logic put behind it. 380 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,520 So it's like outside of, I don't know, it's just like basically 381 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,720 everything I do, be it music or what I wear, is this because 382 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,520 they either think it looks cool or it sounds cool. 383 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,400 And that's about as far as I go with it. 384 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,880 And a lot of the times there's not anything super, super deep 385 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,760 behind it. So I take it very seriously, but 386 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,840 I also treat it like a joke in the sense of like I'm having fun 387 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:27,880 with it. And there's, there's, there's 388 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,280 not much much behind it outside of just having having some fun, 389 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:48,040 I guess. I don't like often to ask people 390 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,000 about their album titles because I know as a artist and then you 391 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:55,120 get asked about a lot, but both of you on your most recent 392 00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:58,640 records, it's like quite clear that the title of your album 393 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:03,880 also like reveal something about where you come from and just 394 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,640 what's influenced you as songwriters. 395 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,960 So I was wondering if each of you could reflect on, you know, 396 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,840 the title of your most recent record and also kind of what it 397 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:18,080 says about where you come from. So my album is my most recent 398 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,640 album is called Planting by the Signs, which is this old ancient 399 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:28,760 belief system that put it really just short it. 400 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:33,720 It goes back to an old belief where the moon effects water and 401 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,880 a lot of people felt like there was a correlation between 402 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:44,520 certain moon phases and how the conditions, how that would lend 403 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,800 to different outcomes. So like for instance, planting 404 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:55,960 crops or say doing tasks like putting shingles on your house. 405 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,840 Like, for instance, you would want to put shingles on your 406 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,640 house when the moon is in a dry sign instead of what is 407 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,640 considered a moist sign. So it can get really kind of 408 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,880 like in the weeds. But one thing I was drawn to 409 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,640 about that was my own experience with it. 410 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:20,840 I was raised by in the signs and in a more passive way. 411 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,840 It's not like we were gathered at the kitchen table and said 412 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,640 like, all right, well, the moon is in this phase or whatever. 413 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,880 It would just be like your grandma would say you pull a 414 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,520 tooth right now, you're going to bleed a lot because the signs 415 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,680 are in the head. You know, which would be signs 416 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,560 are in Aries. You know, I'm from a very small 417 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:45,880 town in Western Kentucky and not only like my singing style, 418 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:50,120 probably, I would say most definitely is a result of the 419 00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:53,800 way people moved across the state. 420 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:59,280 So are some of the belief systems that people either still 421 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,840 believe or don't believe in my little community. 422 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:08,040 And I just thought it was, you know, especially in this time I 423 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,400 really focused on the stories we tell ourselves, the stories we 424 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,680 believe in, the stories we let go of. 425 00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:22,160 And to put that into such a old ancient belief system that far 426 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:27,560 predates like people being or I guess settlers coming to 427 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:33,360 America. It also just talks about how we 428 00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:38,000 have shifted those old beliefs to fit current narratives, which 429 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,080 is something humans do every day. 430 00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:44,200 And I'll leave it with this. You know, I come from a really 431 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,600 conservative background. And I say this that I'm 432 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,680 definitely probably for the rest of my life, a recovering 433 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,360 Southern Baptist. But, you know, I was raised with 434 00:26:53,360 --> 00:27:00,800 people who doing something like yoga was considered, you know, 435 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:06,080 not Christian. But, you know, like I just said, 436 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,600 grandma would say signs are in the head, which is a way, you 437 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:16,080 know, the astrological times are broken up in body parts. 438 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:22,440 That's a very Pagan belief. But yet this is practiced by 439 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,400 people who are very conservative Christian, and they have really 440 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,120 melded that belief system into their own. 441 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,680 So not going to say you're going to listen up to my record and 442 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,640 come away with that completely, but it could lead you there if 443 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,840 you did do a deep dive into that. 444 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:45,640 So I thought it was important to continue, you know, the way I've 445 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:50,040 always written music and something I take very seriously, 446 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,880 which is the South and rural places are complex. 447 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,920 And I feel like it's it's always important for me to continue to 448 00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:02,080 use art as a way to portray that. 449 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:05,480 Yeah, I know. I think that just come through 450 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,520 and maybe before moving on to asking Hayden this kind of 451 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,240 question, there's a song on your record that, while I was 452 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,320 listening to it, really stuck out to me called I Can See the 453 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,560 Devil. And I felt like that complexity 454 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,920 kind of came through that song. I was wondering if you could 455 00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:24,760 just talk a little bit about what that song is about or what 456 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,520 you were trying to get out with it. 457 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,800 Yeah. Well, you know, like earlier in 458 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,160 the conversation I talked about using colloquialisms. 459 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:40,480 And in that song it definitely, I would say maybe more than any 460 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,760 other on the record, really paints a picture of how you know 461 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,200 the type of language that I was raised in. 462 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:52,600 So there is a old belief where if you see the sun coming 463 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:57,280 through the rain clouds, the sun shining while it's raining, they 464 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,880 would old people would say the devil is beating his wife, which 465 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,760 is a really terrible image, you know. 466 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:08,720 But it's, and I don't know why this means like seeing something 467 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:13,040 beautiful from something out of something bad. 468 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,040 But that is the way it's thought about. 469 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:24,000 And that entire song is about kind of being able to, you know, 470 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,800 kind of using sunshine as like a lot of people do, is like a 471 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,400 positive thing that we're seeing through bad moments or hard 472 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,960 times. But that's an instance where, 473 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:41,840 you know, I'm using a very specific kind of regional 474 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:46,280 colloquialism that I think the origins are in. 475 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,280 Like I know the Irish have a saying like that. 476 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,360 And so which would make sense for where I'm from, because 477 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,560 Appalachia moving across to Western Kentucky, like there was 478 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:03,080 a lot of Irish, Scottish settlers and you know, it, it 479 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,000 allows to talk a little bit about history and yeah, just 480 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,560 throwing some regional colloquialisms in there. 481 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,520 I have another follow up, but I'm going to go to Hayden 1st 482 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,640 and then ask it to both of you. So, Hayden, could you talk about 483 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:23,320 the title of your record and how it sort of maybe speaks to your 484 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,640 background? Yeah, my new record, it's called 485 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,400 I'll Be Waving As You Drive Away. 486 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,120 It's a title of that episode 2 parter episode of the show 487 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,800 Little House on the Prairie, which I watched that show a lot 488 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,120 as a as a kid. And then I rewatched it again as 489 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,680 an adult and realized how solid of a show it is. 490 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,080 And what's weird is I picked that title just because I find 491 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,200 it so beautiful. I mean, just even if you don't 492 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,640 know the context of the episode, I'll be waving as you drive 493 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:51,880 away. It's just heavy. 494 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,440 Like people reacted to that title very intensely even before 495 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,600 I explained what that title came from. 496 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,320 But the short version version of the episode is in Little House 497 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,400 in the Prairie, the oldest daughter, Mary Angles begins to 498 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,480 lose her eyesight and she goes blind. 499 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,720 The family sends her to a school for the blind like a stayed over 500 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,160 I believe. And for the two-part episode she 501 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,440 meets one of the the teachers at the school for the blind who's 502 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,680 this guy around the same age as her. 503 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,640 They fall in love. At the end of the two-part 504 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,320 episode, Mary has to go back home to be with her family. 505 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,440 And at the end, in front of the schoolhouse with like, tears in 506 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,280 her eyes, he's saying to her, I'll be waving as you drive away 507 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:34,880 because they can't see each other. 508 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,440 And every time the end of episode gets me, there's 509 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,480 something insanely gut, gut punching about that. 510 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,080 Even now. It's very touching and sweet. 511 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,680 But what's interesting now looking at it the the appeal to 512 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,000 Little House on the Prairie to me, I've realized has a lot of 513 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,200 similarities with my music. Because I view Little House on 514 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,360 the Prairie is like this Disneyland ride version of the 515 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,920 Western days. Like there's something very like 516 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,760 animatronic robot like this is how it went. 517 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,120 Also, I think people don't realize how insane that show is. 518 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,440 It's a very bizarre show that stands out amongst all other 519 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,760 kind of melodramatic 70s TV because some of the episodes get 520 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,960 really trippy and almost druggy with how like strange it goes 521 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,960 out there. And I think that that's 522 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,600 something I pull from in my own music is there's this Disneyland 523 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,880 animatronic ride version of Amarillo, TX that I like to show 524 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:29,800 to people. Me and my friend used to have a 525 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,480 joke about the idea of Disneyland opening an Avatar 526 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,320 ride like the the James Cameron movie Avatar, where we said it 527 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:41,560 would be like Avatar Wild West Saloon, where like the the Navi 528 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,000 characters would be dressed up as Cowboys doing poker or 529 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,400 something like that. I know this doesn't make sense, 530 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,720 but that's the idea of my music is like everything was a 531 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,360 Disneyland ride with like animatronics and it's funny, 532 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:57,520 terrifying and disturbing. And I think that's what I'm 533 00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,440 trying to do with my music. Even with the Little House on 534 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,040 the Prairie record, as I'm pulling your Little House on the 535 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,000 Prairie episode being the title of the record is I'm pulling 536 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,480 from all of these things that are completely absurd like, 537 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,640 well, House on the Prairie is not a good way to show someone 538 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,080 like an accurate representation of that time. 539 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,960 My music is not even a truthful representation of what it's like 540 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,080 to be from Amarillo. I'm telling like this 541 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,920 outlandish, cartoony version of it, even down to the album 542 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,120 cover. And, you know, like my album 543 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,160 covers are weirdly disturbing. I think like, they're very 544 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:33,040 bright and painted and funny, but there's, you know, a dread 545 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:33,880 to them. This. 546 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,120 This album ended a trilogy called the Motor Trilogy because 547 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,560 each cover has a vehicle on it. But the second record is me in 548 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,600 front of a Walmart with a burning Nissan behind me. 549 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,000 The first one is me in corpse paint in front of an 18 Wheeler. 550 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,320 And growing up, my dad was a pastor at a truck stop in 551 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,320 Amarillo. The Petro truck stop had a 18 552 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,280 Wheeler that was converted into a church. 553 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,800 So I spent a lot of time out there, but it's like I'm taking 554 00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:59,640 all of these. I'm taking all these references, 555 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,680 putting them together, but I'm making them like a not truthful 556 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,320 telling. It's not supposed to be 557 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,199 truthful. It's funny and disturbing and 558 00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:11,440 it's it's it's my way of like being dishonest. 559 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,679 But when I titled the episode of Little House on the Prairie 560 00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:16,360 title, it's the most honest thing I can tell because it's 561 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,880 something that I still find very sweet and touching. 562 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,440 And for me, when I titled it, I'll be waiting as you drive 563 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,120 away. It's a message to the people 564 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,800 that follow my music. It's a weird way of saying, 565 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,199 like, I wish you well as you go on, you know, on your journey in 566 00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:34,600 life, that's this very dark funhouse. 567 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,360 Like, life is this comical funhouse of, like, atrocities 568 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,000 and warped mirrors. And we're laughing and crying. 569 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,440 And what was weird is this happens every time that I title 570 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,120 a record, and then I find out what the meaning is later. 571 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,280 Like, I just choose a title because it sounds good. 572 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:51,639 But it's like, I titled the record I'll be waiting as you 573 00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:54,000 drive away. And then weeks before my album 574 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,200 came out, I had to go out to Los Angeles with my parents because 575 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,400 we found out my aunt was dying of cancer. 576 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:06,640 She'd like hit it, didn't tell anybody and and we had to get 577 00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:10,480 out there and drive her in a rented minivan to Amarillo to be 578 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:15,200 with my grandmother and family. And she like passed literally 579 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,600 like 2 weeks after we got her home. 580 00:35:17,720 --> 00:35:20,080 It was so weird. And it was like titled the 581 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,000 record I'll be waving as you drive away. 582 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,840 And it was it was intense. I played my album release show 583 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,840 days after she passed and it was just kind of, it's eerie. 584 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,400 You're like, Oh my gosh, like that album titled directly 585 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,040 applied to that situation. I didn't even know it yet. 586 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,640 So it's like something you start off being funny about as a 587 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:43,960 Avatar Poker Disneyland ride turns into something very 588 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:48,000 serious and heavy. So I guess that's that's the 589 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,160 reason why I tell myself that as it starts off like that sounds 590 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,280 cool, and then it turns into something that applied to me, 591 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,200 maybe in a way I didn't want it to at the time. 592 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,400 But you realize that that's that's why you make art is it's 593 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,160 a it it represents a period of time in your life and you have 594 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,080 something to attach it to. And it all goes back to Little 595 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,400 House on the Prairie. You know, show that I enjoyed a 596 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,440 lot as a kid and now applies to my life now, I guess. 597 00:36:32,890 --> 00:36:35,530 Something that I'm struck by is that it really seems like you're 598 00:36:35,530 --> 00:36:40,090 both sort of like students of the the subject matter that 599 00:36:40,090 --> 00:36:44,650 you're writing about or it just feels like you must both do a 600 00:36:44,650 --> 00:36:48,730 lot of like reading and taking in of information. 601 00:36:49,330 --> 00:36:53,280 I was wondering if that is true, and if so, if you could tell me 602 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,960 a little bit about like your studies, like the things that 603 00:36:55,960 --> 00:37:00,080 you read and and take in as you're working on music? 604 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:04,680 Yeah, well, I come from like a philosophy background. 605 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,440 That's what my degree is in. And I've always loved to read, 606 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,440 but also just maybe been in like a major dork, you know? 607 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,960 And and I'm not ashamed of it at all. 608 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,080 I kind of love that about myself. 609 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:23,560 But this, you know, approaching like planting by the signs, 610 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:30,760 especially when it comes to my lyrics, I think that you can 611 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:35,000 really tell when something is forced in pretty much well 612 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,680 anything and but especially when riding. 613 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:44,080 And so I knew if I wanted to have details about that go back 614 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,880 to the belief system of planning by the sun, then I needed to 615 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:52,960 just fill up on everything I could get my hands on way before 616 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,960 I actually wrote the songs. So that when it came down, I 617 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,840 wasn't, I didn't have a book cracked in front of me trying to 618 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:05,480 fit in this particular detail. It was second nature for that to 619 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,880 be in my consciousness, you know? 620 00:38:08,240 --> 00:38:15,000 So I think that's really important for my writing and it 621 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:24,240 also, you know, I'll say that I've done a lot of manual labor 622 00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:29,000 in my life and I really do well creatively when I have that as 623 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:35,080 an option. And as touring has become more 624 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:39,600 and more intense over the years, I mean, I, I tore away too much, 625 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,400 honestly. But it is there's some manual 626 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:47,320 labor aspects of going on tour, but not really not like what I'm 627 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,160 used to. Not enough to get in that moment 628 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,440 where you're kind of like able to get out of your way in your 629 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:57,000 head. And so I think, you know, 630 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:02,560 reading and, and giving myself a subject matter has I've been 631 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,080 able to kind of tap into that a little bit. 632 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:11,400 So yeah, I'm you pegged me. I'm a reader. 633 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,200 I don't know. Are there any like particular 634 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,200 books or texts that really influenced you while you were 635 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,520 writing this record? Yeah, so there's an old series 636 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:26,920 called the Foxfire series that are kind of a lot of not only 637 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:36,520 how TOS as far as as as far as like how to do, you know, kind 638 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:41,120 of task in like the mountains, like, you know, process a hog or 639 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:44,320 build a cabin or whatever. But it also has a whole section 640 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:50,120 on moon planting or planting by the signs. 641 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,240 So that was an interesting text. And there's there's been a few 642 00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:02,560 books about, you know, like the Farmer's Almanac has things 643 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:06,200 about planting by the signs in every year, but a lot of that 644 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:10,120 too, because this. Really is a tradition passed 645 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,600 down orally. You know, that's how it still 646 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:19,240 exists right now. I went and spoke to people who 647 00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:25,000 still practice this and asked them where it's, you know, how 648 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:29,560 they learned about it. And I even incorporated voice 649 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:34,080 overs, field recordings into this record because, you know, 650 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,320 the nuts and bolts of the record is, like I said, about the 651 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,120 stories we choose to believe or let go of. 652 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,680 And I think it I really wanted to portray how stories are given 653 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,960 to us as well. You know, we got music and we 654 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,320 have filled recordings of people's actual voices. 655 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:59,000 So yeah, all those were really important. 656 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:03,800 And there was, it was a lot of fun. 657 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,080 It was a lot of fun to to do that research. 658 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:17,640 I well love hearing about the research process that went into 659 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,920 your record. Would love to hear more about 660 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:26,440 that honestly at some point. But Hayden, could you talk a 661 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:31,400 little bit about like, you know, are there any literary 662 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:35,320 influences or books that have informed your work or in 663 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,640 general, like what it what does studies look like for you? 664 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,880 I think this most recent record it it, it might sound kind of 665 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,640 boring, but I felt like the thing I was drawing from so hard 666 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,640 is I was going back to the records in high school that kind 667 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:55,960 of influenced me so much because I thought those influences have 668 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,360 never failed me. So I was returning to things 669 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,200 like old Genesis records and prog rock albums. 670 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:05,560 And I wrote the majority of this album during a residency out in 671 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,400 Wyoming. And I was just in in silence. 672 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,480 They they put me in this house kind of out in the middle of 673 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:16,000 nowhere. And it what was strange is I 674 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,600 remember calling my parents during that residency to write 675 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:19,960 this record where I said, it's weird. 676 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:24,520 I've been like crying multiple times and I'm not sure why I was 677 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,680 very confused by because I was by myself in this house and I 678 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:32,200 realized the silence in this home was so intense that was 679 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,120 flipping me out and I realized I was like, man, like I'm not I'm 680 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,040 not exposed to this level of silence ever. 681 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,000 I think most of us aren't. So I think it's like for me, the 682 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,160 really the only two things I was pulling from when I was writing 683 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,720 this record was the influence of silence during the writing 684 00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:47,800 process. But then I was going back to 685 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,320 things like the lamb was down on Broadway by Genesis, certain 686 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,480 John Fahey records. I mean, but it's like my 687 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,080 influence is when making a record are like really simple. 688 00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,400 It's like I watched like American Graffiti again. 689 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,760 Like I watched American Graffiti last year. 690 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:04,080 I hadn't seen that movie in years. 691 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,040 And I was like, this is the greatest film of all time. 692 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:10,680 Like I was, I was so enamoured again by American Graffiti. 693 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,720 And it's like when people I was like, what inspired this new 694 00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:14,880 album? I'm like, well, House on the 695 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,920 Prairie, Genesis, American Graffiti, like I think that 696 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:23,920 might be it, but it it it, it sounds kind of boring because I 697 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:25,680 don't, I don't have like these deep things. 698 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,000 But again, like I said, it's like a lot of them, the 699 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,120 influences are meaning or things comes like after the record is 700 00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,720 done, where am I? Oh man, I didn't even know I 701 00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:36,640 was, I was influenced by that. There was like something that 702 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,040 happened. So you're working in reverse 703 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,720 order or something where it's just like I make the record and 704 00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:45,560 become inspired later, or I figure out what the inspiration 705 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:49,600 was while I was making it. But I, I was just, I was really 706 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,960 obsessed with like making a record that sounds nice, you 707 00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,040 know, it's just like it's, it always goes back to me saying 708 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,720 this sounds cool. It's just like a fight. 709 00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:01,400 If I write something that sounds cool, then I feel good. 710 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,360 Or if I record something and it sounds cool, I try not to really 711 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:10,640 put too much thought into it. But my whole, I guess process 712 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,880 with everything is when in doubt, always go back to the 713 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,880 things that that worked for you originally. 714 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,760 Like whenever in doubt, I put on the Genesis record and I 715 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,240 remember like, OK, that's like that. 716 00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:27,880 That's the root of every single thing I do comes from the way I 717 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,760 felt when I heard a Genesis record and it worked. 718 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,040 It always works. It's never failed me. 719 00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,400 And if there's a day where it doesn't work, I'll quit music 720 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:39,080 because that means like I've lost all inspiration I guess. 721 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,400 But I don't know. My role is like only be inspired 722 00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:46,440 by like 3 things at once. Otherwise, you know, you drowned 723 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,160 and it's easy for me to drown in inspiration. 724 00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:52,080 There's too much to be inspired by right now. 725 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,880 Which is, which is a good thing artistically. 726 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,240 But yeah, I guess like American graffiti or something. 727 00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,720 You, you, you, You brought up this idea of silence. 728 00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:23,720 And I saw like a few things that you posted online about how 729 00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:27,560 there's a lot of silence in your live shows and how, you know, 730 00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:32,680 you feel like maybe one of the reasons why people are drawn to 731 00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:35,920 your music is because it's sort of like a quiet place to get 732 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,840 like some reprieve from like a very noisy world. 733 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,840 Am I getting that like quote right of what you wrote? 734 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:42,960 Online. Yes, yes. 735 00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:44,880 OK. And I was thinking about it 736 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,600 'cause I was, I was also sort of thinking about it in relation to 737 00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,120 this interview with SG that I read where I think it was like 738 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,520 Rolling Stone sort of called you a minister of, of grief. 739 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:58,920 And I was just thinking about how, like, you know, both of you 740 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:04,040 seem to have this kind of relationship to maybe like 741 00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:10,960 ritual or creating moments in your music for people to maybe 742 00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,640 sit with like harder things. And I don't know, I was kind of 743 00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,960 wondering if either of you if that resonated with either of 744 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:22,080 you or if you saw any kind of commonality there that you'd 745 00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:29,480 want to touch on? I don't know. 746 00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:33,800 I guess I, I guess the root, the root for me, like in the the 747 00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:38,760 silence thing is, I can, I can definitely see it being a ritual 748 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,840 within my shows because I've only been playing live really 749 00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,800 since 2023. I was really late to touring. 750 00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,400 I like worked normal jobs for a long time and was too scared to 751 00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,480 tour. But the very first two I ever 752 00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,320 did was opening for Jenny Lewis in 2023. 753 00:46:55,800 --> 00:47:00,080 And those were pretty big rooms. And by the first show in 754 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,320 Chicago, I realized I was in over my head just as a solo 755 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,320 acoustic guitar player playing these, these larger rooms. 756 00:47:06,720 --> 00:47:10,560 But I, I, I realized that silence is like fire. 757 00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,960 It's like it, it can be used good, used for good if you know 758 00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:17,200 how to control it a certain way. And so initially I felt like I 759 00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,480 was punishing the audience with silence. 760 00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,200 Like I would come out and sit in the chair and like sit for 15 761 00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,760 seconds before saying anything because people start to pause 762 00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:27,720 and kind of go like, is this guy OK? 763 00:47:27,720 --> 00:47:30,880 Like what's he doing? And over time, I realized with 764 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,840 silence, you can use it in a way of like, I want someone to be 765 00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,680 afraid to open their beer. That's the goal. 766 00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:40,040 Because if people know you take pauses in your music, they're so 767 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,280 intentional about when they crack that because they hate to 768 00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:46,160 be the one person doing that. But then over time after using 769 00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,520 after using it more in a punisher way, people start to 770 00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:54,080 get accustomed to the silence. And I've, I realized that, you 771 00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,240 know, it's like a lot of the times, the only times we like 772 00:47:56,240 --> 00:47:58,600 feel silence in a large group is like in something really 773 00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:02,720 terrible has happened. And if you can find a way to get 774 00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:05,680 a whole audience to be in silence with you for a positive 775 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:09,360 reason, it can feel intense. And it's still for me feels very 776 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:11,360 intense when I take these pauses. 777 00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,960 A lot of the times I play the theme to Brokeback Mountain Live 778 00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,080 when I'm playing my shows and I like it because the pauses are 779 00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,320 really excruciatingly long and I have to catch myself because 780 00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:26,080 there's times I've almost speed through them because I get 781 00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:28,640 uncomfortable. But it's kind of like be willing 782 00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:32,640 to take the 10 second pause, like there's a reason for this. 783 00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,640 And if you're, if you commit to it, the audience will pick up on 784 00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,040 that intention and they'll respond to it. 785 00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,200 And over time, I've learned the audiences, at least my audiences 786 00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:45,160 are, are, are far more willing to give than I ever thought they 787 00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,560 were. Like they're, they want to be in 788 00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,360 silence with you. And there's a power in that. 789 00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,040 But I mean, there's a silent grief in that silence, even 790 00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:58,320 amidst the positivity of it all. When you're silent with everyone 791 00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,320 you can, you can suddenly feel the weight of what everyone's 792 00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,000 caring. You just don't know what it is, 793 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:15,140 you know? Thank you both for your time. 794 00:49:15,140 --> 00:49:18,740 And this has been, yeah, really cool. 795 00:49:19,220 --> 00:49:22,200 And I'm glad today I have to speak with you both. 796 00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,040 So thanks. Thank you. 797 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,160 It was great to meet you all. Yeah, absolutely. 798 00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,760 It's so nice to meet you and look forward to hearing your 799 00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:40,160 set. Oh, you child. 800 00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:47,600 Just like a Mama cutie. Big Ears Conversations about 801 00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,320 Music is a production of Big Ears Festival. 802 00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:54,240 I'm your host Sarah Gilletti. The show's produced by Matt 803 00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:56,920 Marowitz. This episode was edited by 804 00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:01,440 Trevor Smith with Delilah Ryder. Ashley Capps is the executive 805 00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:03,800 and artistic director of Big Ears. 806 00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:10,440 Big Ears 2026 will take place March 26th through 29th in 2026 807 00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,280 in Knoxville, TN. For more information and 808 00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,960 festival updates, visit bigearsfestival.org. 809 00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:23,680 Thanks for listening and until next time, keep those ears wide 810 00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:24,040 open.