1 00:00:30,030 --> 00:00:32,110 Thanks for carving out a little time for this my. 2 00:00:32,189 --> 00:00:35,600 Pleasure. You know, I so I have a couple 3 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,440 of bigger picture questions for you and then some more specific 4 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:41,800 things. So I want to begin with the the, 5 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:47,080 the biggest picture of all, which is the biggest festival is 6 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:51,520 a very particular event and you have so much history with it and 7 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,640 you've also played, you know, other festivals all over the 8 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,840 world for many years. There's something that is 9 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,040 specific to big ears. What is that? 10 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:03,520 How would you articulate that for yourself? 11 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,280 Oh, it's, it's one of my favorite festivals because it's 12 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,720 just so open. And if I was to go to a festival 13 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:13,880 myself, that's where I would want to go because I would want 14 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,520 to hear people exploring the edges of the musical 15 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,920 consciousness. And for me, that's what this 16 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,920 festival celebrates. It's like it's, it's not so much 17 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,800 about labels because there's a lot of folks in my bluegrass 18 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,120 family who somehow fit as well. And you would say, well, that's 19 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,440 not modern music or that's not edgy music or whatever you want 20 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,560 big ears to be. But I think it's just about 21 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:37,680 listening stuff that's really made to listen to. 22 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,000 And you have to bring a certain listening consciousness when you 23 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,600 show up. And, and what, what I find 24 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:46,720 fascinating is that there are actually people that want to do 25 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:48,120 that. Like sometimes when you're 26 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,240 playing music that's on the edges, you get used to people 27 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,960 not caring. And it being, you know, one 28 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:54,600 person called it, what did he call it? 29 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:56,880 Minority. Taste that's. 30 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:58,440 What he called it minority taste. 31 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:00,280 I was like, oh, that's what I I didn't know. 32 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,280 That's what I was this, this big promoter I met in Ireland years 33 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,480 and years in the 80s said, oh, yeah, that's what you are. 34 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,560 You're a minority taste said, OK, so is it bad to be a 35 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:10,680 minority taste? Not if you have enough people 36 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:12,960 that love what you do and you get to do it and you get to make 37 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:14,320 a living doing it, then you're winning. 38 00:02:14,920 --> 00:02:17,240 So I think this is a place where a lot of people gather who have 39 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:19,400 been doing that, fighting the good fight their whole lives to 40 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,480 do something unique and personal. 41 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,560 And this is a place where it's beautifully celebrated. 42 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,880 It's interesting to think about that phrase because, you know, 43 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:35,360 during that one weekend in Knoxville, the minority is the 44 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,320 majority. You know, on the ground in 45 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,280 Knoxville. It's like this strange utopia 46 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:47,120 where, you know, and that can encompass people who are really 47 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:51,880 deep, serious listeners of one particular tradition, but during 48 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,640 big years they're also sort of tourists, you know, happily 49 00:02:55,640 --> 00:02:58,240 jumping into these other. Yeah, musical tourists. 50 00:02:58,280 --> 00:02:59,880 It's musical tourism. Yeah. 51 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,800 Now, it's interesting to think about an artist like yourself, 52 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:10,280 and I think Big Years sort of collects artists like this who 53 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:14,200 can speak with authority in a whole lot of different 54 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,400 circumstances, you know, and I think about, you know, you've 55 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,520 performed solo there. You've performed with Abigail. 56 00:03:20,920 --> 00:03:24,160 You, you know, did a duet with Edmar Castaneda. 57 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,840 You've done things with with, you know, orchestral. 58 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:31,080 Setting Besico culiate, Angoni player, yeah. 59 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,080 So I mean, quartet, Strindberg book and writer, string quartet. 60 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,000 Those are some of the ones I can think of at the moment, yeah. 61 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,240 Yeah, and, and, you know, and still, like, still counting, 62 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,120 right? So, you know, I think about you. 63 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:46,200 I think about Rhiannon Giddens, you know, very recently. 64 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,560 Christian McBride became a part of the family. 65 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,520 And you know. Frizzell is sort of, he's the 66 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,520 natural, you know, just more perfect for this kind of thing. 67 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,920 But I think The thing is we tend to think that those people that 68 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:02,480 want to explore the edges are usually in, you know, you know, 69 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,760 New York or, or in, in jazz or the edge of jazz or, or, or, or 70 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,760 all kinds of, but, but we don't always remember that they're, 71 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,560 they're everywhere. They're in every musical form. 72 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,120 There are people that want to explore and create and find 73 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,519 something very personal. And actually our livelihood is 74 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,320 is somewhat dependent on it too, because you have to stick out. 75 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,480 You have to make your own sound. You have to have your own 76 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,400 personality to get attention, especially when you're doing 77 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,880 music that's as esoteric as some of the stuff that we all get 78 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,720 into. So I think I'm very comfortable 79 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:37,920 with it. It's not for everybody, but 80 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,480 there for some reason, there are these people that really care 81 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,640 about music. Like not just I love Taylor 82 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:48,240 Swift, but I like to hear what people are doing and they have 83 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,440 enough knowledge of what's been going on for the last 20-30 84 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,520 fifty years that they know when they're hearing something that's 85 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:57,720 pure and honest and straightforward or, or coming 86 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:02,000 from a new place or refresh or, you know, changing the changing 87 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:05,280 the the structure a little bit from what we've heard before, 88 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:06,920 right. I think it's really special to 89 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,440 be around this because I know these people, like I meet them 90 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:11,840 around the country and they're just people I know from, you 91 00:05:11,840 --> 00:05:14,800 know, Colorado Springs. I know a a teacher there at the 92 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:16,640 at the university. He always comes to big ears, 93 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,560 even whenever I see him. He wants me to hear, you know, 94 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,760 out guitar playing because that's one of his favorite 95 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,200 things, like really out, which is not where I normally go, but 96 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,680 I love it. It's like great, you know, I 97 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,480 want to hear this. I want to hear everything and 98 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:34,200 see how mostly because I I love all the music so much and it 99 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:38,160 also when I hear something new IT it changes my ideas of what 100 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,760 is possible for me. And obviously you can't do 101 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,160 everything, but you can certainly be influenced by the 102 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,520 great things that you hear and can't be what you're not. 103 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,120 But you can you can keep on growing and trying. 104 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,640 Can you think of any personal discoveries from the festival? 105 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:06,240 Something that you stumbled into or somebody pulled you aside? 106 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:10,840 You know, I have my own, you know, rolling list, but what 107 00:06:10,840 --> 00:06:12,840 about you? Well, it's a little hard for me 108 00:06:12,840 --> 00:06:16,720 because a lot of times I am rushing from thing to thing and 109 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,720 then I'm practicing until it's time to go play. 110 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:24,160 And so I haven't gotten to go so much as a spectator, as much as 111 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,720 I would love to. So yeah, I don't. 112 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,240 You never can think of things when people ask me this. 113 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:31,760 But then after you get off, I'm all go. 114 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:32,880 I should have told them about this. 115 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:37,000 But what I actually really value is, you know, at the hotel, you 116 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,120 go in the lobby. Mark Ribeau is sitting there. 117 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:44,440 Or, oh, who's that fantastic gal who plays very modern guitar? 118 00:06:44,840 --> 00:06:47,720 Mary Halverson. Yeah, yeah, I got to hang out 119 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,600 with them and for over breakfast, you know, and, and, 120 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,080 and find out that, you know, we all like each other. 121 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,000 Even though we do different kinds of music, we're all 122 00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:02,640 interested in music as a very soul help, a soul satisfying 123 00:07:02,840 --> 00:07:05,480 experience. And we share a lot of things 124 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,200 and, and even like each other, you know, things that each other 125 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:12,040 are doing, although you wouldn't necessarily assume that. 126 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:16,160 Right, right now there, there's a name I haven't mentioned yet 127 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,800 that is really important to this conversation. 128 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:23,120 Of course, Ashley Capps And you could say that Big Ears is, you 129 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:29,160 know, a kind of extension or, or extrapolation of, you know, the 130 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:34,240 musical enthusiasms of this one, you know, really incredible 131 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:35,160 listener. Yeah. 132 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:36,240 I. Have some thoughts about Ashley, 133 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,720 but I also have some thoughts about the power that one person 134 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,120 can have to change a community and its appreciation of music. 135 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,960 Because there was a guy this back when I was in, in, back in 136 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:50,960 the 80s, that's the 1980s. I, I, I used to play a lot in 137 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,040 Louisville with New Grass Revival and we would play a 138 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,360 place called the Center for the Arts. 139 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,720 And this place was, was a home to people like us who were 140 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:01,600 pretty, pretty out there. We didn't get a lot of 141 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,680 Performing Arts Center gigs in those days, but this guy named 142 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:06,960 Richard Van Kleek ran it and he had big ears. 143 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,280 And he was a perfect example. He brought in all kinds of 144 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,080 stuff, all kinds of music into this Performing Arts Center. 145 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,360 And he made it a home for people, you know, that didn't 146 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,760 have a lot of a lot of homes where they could go play their 147 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:19,440 music. And over the course of a number 148 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:23,160 of years, he made, in my opinion, he made Louisville into 149 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:27,440 a listening music town where they actually thrived and loved 150 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:32,480 hearing new imaginative music. And I really pin it to him. 151 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,120 And there are other people in certain towns maybe, you know, I 152 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,080 don't know if Lowell, Lowell Jacobs is a guy, you know, who's 153 00:08:38,159 --> 00:08:41,600 who runs the Dakota in Minneapolis and the, and the 154 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,640 Mim, he used to run the Mim Musical Instrument Museum in 155 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:49,440 near Phoenix. People who just curate and bring 156 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:51,040 in great stuff. And then gradually the people 157 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:52,800 start to come. So that's it's one little club 158 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,680 in a town, in a small town. Sometimes it's the only person 159 00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:59,080 who'll take a risk on something. So anyway, Ashley's that guy in 160 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,160 Knoxville and he's been that guy in Knoxville since the 80s. 161 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,200 Like what for me, maybe before, I don't know because I wasn't 162 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,360 there. But when I came to town, he had 163 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:11,080 this club called Ella Gurus. And Ella Gurus would play New 164 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,440 Grass Survival and, and we got to know Ashley. 165 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:15,600 He was just the guy who ran this little club. 166 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,040 But it was a club that had a list of artists that you would 167 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:20,600 die to. You want to be there every night 168 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,960 to see who who was playing. It wasn't like a jazz club, it 169 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,280 wasn't like a singer-songwriter club. 170 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,360 It wasn't like a bluegrass club, but it wasn't a world music 171 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:31,360 club. But you know, you could see 172 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,440 anything in that club and it was just constantly full of. 173 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,840 So I think he started building that audience for people. 174 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,240 And he also had a radio show that he curated as as far as I 175 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:43,360 know, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is my impression that 176 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,200 he had this this great radio show. 177 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,160 And in and with that radio show, he also got a lot of people in 178 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,360 that town aware of a lot of music that they might not have 179 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,600 found out about. And so when when I left New 180 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,080 Grass and started the Flecktones and he was one of my first 181 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:58,960 calls. Is there any chance I could come 182 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,760 play your club with my new weird group with a drum guitar and a 183 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,960 harmonica and a electric bass and me, my banjo? 184 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,040 And he was like, yeah, let's just put it on the book. 185 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,320 You know, he was always enthusiastic. 186 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:22,880 He was always supportive. Then I gradually watched him 187 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,160 turn into one of the biggest music moguls of the Southeast, 188 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,880 you know, and become Bonnaroo, you know, chief partner, one of 189 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,720 the big partners at Bonnaroo and lots and lots of promotion all 190 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,960 over the South. And but it was neat to know that 191 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,680 he was a guy who loved real music of all kinds. 192 00:10:38,680 --> 00:10:41,000 I mean, he loved it all. And he he's one thing I've 193 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:42,680 noticed about Ashley. He's not the kind of guy who 194 00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:46,320 says if you could come off stage, yeah, you guys suck 195 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,440 tonight, man, I hope you do better tomorrow. 196 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,160 He's the guy who says, man, that was so, that was so great. 197 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,000 That's what he always says. And that's not because I'm so 198 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,160 great, because he says that to everybody because he loves 199 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,600 music. And even after everything he's 200 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,680 been through with the music business side of it, the ups and 201 00:11:02,680 --> 00:11:05,200 downs of that, and I think he's had some incredible, an 202 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,920 incredible career on the upside of a bigger mainstream music as 203 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,240 well. He still loves all this stuff. 204 00:11:11,560 --> 00:11:15,160 And so I think now that he, he did so well at Bonnaroo and, and 205 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,720 with all of his other projects, this is the thing, this is the 206 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:19,440 labor of love. That is really the thing that he 207 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:21,760 started out doing in the very beginning that he's just coming 208 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:23,880 back to because this is the thing I think that he cares the 209 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:24,960 most about. Right? 210 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,200 Yeah. And so he's the guy who's made 211 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,320 Knoxville a safe place for guys like me and Mary Alverson, you 212 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:32,560 know? Absolutely. 213 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:36,960 I mean, I think of 1 personal encounter standing in line. 214 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:38,720 This is maybe two or three years ago. 215 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,360 You know, you you sometimes chat up to people who are standing in 216 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,600 line with you. And this is a white haired, 217 00:11:45,680 --> 00:11:51,440 bearded gentleman with a hat. And he said, yeah, I I live, you 218 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:55,000 know, up in the mountains, you know, here in eastern Tennessee. 219 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,080 And I haven't missed one of these. 220 00:11:58,560 --> 00:12:02,440 And, you know, this is a guy who was not into a whole lot of 221 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:08,280 music, you know, prior to this festival and and he was excited. 222 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:10,920 He's like last night, I Speaking of Mary, he said last night I 223 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,200 saw this guitarist named Mary Halverson. 224 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,040 Wow. She just about blew me away, you 225 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:20,600 know, and this guy is, you know, he is just part of the local 226 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,200 community, you know, And I mean, I can guarantee you he would not 227 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:28,920 be hearing Mary Halverson or anything like it if not for big 228 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:29,920 ears and. No. 229 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,840 And it's kind of like wacky music as a spectator sport. 230 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,200 You know, people come, anybody could enjoy this because it's 231 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,200 just going to be so different from thing to thing. 232 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,760 You're going to just. You might not, you might hate 233 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:41,520 something, but that's what you're there for too. 234 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:46,560 Let's talk about that as a force in the world, because this idea 235 00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:50,600 that I'm really intrigued by the idea that there's a sort of 236 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:55,040 value system at Big Ears where it is a selling point. 237 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,320 If it's something you haven't heard of, right? 238 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:01,400 It's kind of like, well, it's here, so it's probably pretty 239 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,960 great. And so, so then within that, 240 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,440 it's like, well, you know, OK, I'm going to go see Patti Smith 241 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,440 because, you know, she's Patti Smith. 242 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:09,920 And we know, we know that's important. 243 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,040 But I'm also what? What's this over here, right? 244 00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:14,040 Right, what can I catch on the on the? 245 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:20,160 Side in this moment when the streaming ecology is, you know, 246 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:24,200 pushing more and more towards just giving you what it knows 247 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:29,960 you like you know and and genuine discovery is actually 248 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:31,560 being. Well, I mean this is. 249 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,120 Fired out of the system. You know, like, let's talk about 250 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,800 why this is so. I mean, it feels sort of 251 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,440 revolutionary in a certain way in this current moment. 252 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:42,560 Yes and no. Or you could say that he's doing 253 00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:45,240 what the computer is what the what the algorithm is doing on 254 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:46,800 our phones for us. Like if, if you just keep 255 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,720 listening to complex out instrumental music, it'll start 256 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,840 finding it for you. I mean, he, he's just doing it 257 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:58,120 the analog way, you know, But I, I used to have this thing like 258 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,360 the Flecktones when we first came out, people's minds would 259 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:02,600 be blown. We would play because they just 260 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:04,520 had no expectation of what. And we'd come out and I said, I 261 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:05,640 heard these guys were going to be good. 262 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,480 And then they'd come out and they'd just, there was no way 263 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,680 for them to be prepared for what we were going to do. 264 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:11,960 Not saying it was all that great. 265 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,000 I'm just saying it was so different from everything else. 266 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,640 And then, then we would come back a year later and I'd be 267 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:20,760 like, well, they already had their minds kind of blown the 268 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:22,480 first time. How are we going to do it again? 269 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:24,840 And I, I, my attitude is we always have to come back and 270 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,040 play a different show than we played last year in the same 271 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,920 room. You can't like we didn't create 272 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,720 this music so we could now just play that music for the next 20 273 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,200 years. And it was the whole idea was 274 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:38,280 that it's, it's, you'll always hear something you didn't expect 275 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,040 or something new or something that changed your, your view of 276 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,360 the whole thing. And I would even, you know, if 277 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,440 we weren't actually doing enough new stuff, I would just, I kept 278 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,800 all the set lists to make sure that we didn't come back and 279 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,600 play the, you know, if we played back in Knoxville two years 280 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,680 later, I looked at what we played two years ago because we 281 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:56,320 have a big book with the Flecktones. 282 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,840 But so I could make sure we played a set that wasn't what we 283 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:03,640 did last time. So every time people came, they 284 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:05,680 would have the opportunity to have discovery. 285 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,200 And, and because it seemed to me if the whole idea of what was 286 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,680 great about the band was discovery and then you keep 287 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:13,880 coming back and they play the play, the hits that you 288 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:15,800 discovered, it's not discovery anymore. 289 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,760 So I, that's one of the thing for my career is I just keep on 290 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:20,800 trying to find things that are discovery for me. 291 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,400 And I'm curating with my career the way Ashley is curating, 292 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:27,880 although he's probably less critical and less particular 293 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,960 about the things that I I bring into my world because they're, 294 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,440 some of it is things I'm able to do or not, and some of it is 295 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:36,120 just what I like. If I'm going to spend a year 296 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,560 doing something quite a lot, it's got to be something I'm 297 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,520 very attracted to. But it's a similar point of 298 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:54,880 view, so I recognize him. There's also a particular, I 299 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:58,600 don't want to call it a sub genre and you know, or a 300 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:00,200 movement. I'm not sure what to what to 301 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,520 call it, but you'll recognize what I'm talking about because 302 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,120 you know, you meant, you talked a bit about coming out in the 303 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:06,920 80s. I mean, to a certain extent 304 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,440 you've been doing the same, like versions of the same thing in 305 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:14,120 terms of your compass, you know? That's my dirty little secret. 306 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:15,520 Everybody says you're so creative doing. 307 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:17,160 I'm just doing the same exact thing. 308 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,400 I just keep surrounding myself with different people and 309 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,920 finding different ways to do what I've always done well so. 310 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,440 So to that point, I think you've had a huge influence in this 311 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,240 respect, but the scene has kind of changed around you in that 312 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:34,760 there's now, you know, generations of people who came 313 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:39,520 up in American acoustic music, let's call it, you know, people 314 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,720 call it roots music or whatever. And, but but they're really 315 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:48,200 interested in working with the classical language and jazz 316 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,240 improvisation and what have you. So, you know, now you're out 317 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:55,520 here and then here comes Chris Seeley and you know, here comes 318 00:16:55,920 --> 00:17:00,560 like this whole scene of of people who are really like 319 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:05,480 starting in this one rooted place and then, you know, really 320 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:07,920 credibly and compellingly moving all around. 321 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:13,960 So and Big Ears has beautifully sort of kept up with that. 322 00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:18,040 So can you speak to that development and what it means to 323 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,280 you and what your perspective on it is? 324 00:17:21,319 --> 00:17:23,560 Yeah, I can. That's probably the best thing I 325 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,560 could speak on that I would be the most qualified to speak on 326 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:28,040 because that's my that's my world. 327 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,280 That's the people. So people have a tendency to 328 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,960 when when someone new comes along and changes it up, go, oh, 329 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,120 they're the new, you know, they're seeing it a whole new 330 00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:37,640 way. But everything happens in a 331 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,360 continuum. So like Earl Scruggs came on the 332 00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:42,560 scene and he changed banjo playing from the way it was done 333 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,160 before he added the third finger. 334 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,080 And yeah, there were other guys messing with it, but nobody did 335 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,160 it like him. And he made something that was 336 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,320 so compelling that he created followers that that learned it 337 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:52,720 and built on that and this whole thing. 338 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,560 So when people say, oh, you're one of the forefathers, I go, 339 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:57,600 well, what about the guys that came before me like David 340 00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,720 Grisman and Tony Triska and Tony Rice? 341 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,360 We overlap. But he's Sam Bush, who I played 342 00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:04,720 with in the band. He he had 14 years in before I 343 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,400 even showed up. So I think there's been a 344 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,240 natural movement in this direction since way before I 345 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,520 came on the scene. Bill Keith, another incredible 346 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:16,720 banja player like Tony Triska is who who was changing at playing 347 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,760 jazz ideas and bringing them into the bluegrass language. 348 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,080 So I think it's a continuum. And there have always been those 349 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:24,280 people. And thank goodness there are 350 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:28,480 also people who reject that and they go, I want to play 351 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,600 bluegrass like it was done. You know, I'm going to play it 352 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,560 in my own way. But I want to, I want to, I want 353 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,040 to be more like, you know, Earl Scruggs. 354 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,000 Then I want to be like Tony Triska or Baylor or Chris 355 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:40,400 Thiele. That's not really what I love 356 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:44,480 about this music. So I mean, so I think the music 357 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,400 is very rich when you have people that do lots of different 358 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,760 things with it. And in fact, I think jazz had a 359 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:55,440 had a kind of a tough period where like if one person becomes 360 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,000 the guy, the music's a little in trouble. 361 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,920 And because everybody gives that person so much clout and and 362 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,480 what they say becomes so important that you aren't 363 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:07,520 hearing the other voices anymore. 364 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,280 I feel like that happened with Wynton Marsalis. 365 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,840 Like he be and nothing. No problem with him. 366 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,520 He's a strong guy with a really strong perspective and great 367 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,880 opinions that that he's come up with and built over years. 368 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:22,240 And I think there the problem is no, the people with the other 369 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,360 opinions that were different from his didn't get the same 370 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,600 time. And so his sort of took over as 371 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,440 the ones that should shape where jazz goes. 372 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,560 But there was a lot of other people with a lot of different 373 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,560 points of view and they didn't get, they didn't have the 374 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:39,440 strength commercially or career wise to stand up and be 375 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,920 considered his equal. Like if you go back to earlier 376 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,960 days in jazz, like we've got Charlie Parker, but you've got 377 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,000 Miles Davis, but you got, you know, Cannonball and then you've 378 00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:49,800 you've got Coltrane. And then you've got, you know, 379 00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:55,480 there's, you've got Eric Dolphy, you've got Ellington is still 380 00:19:55,480 --> 00:20:00,760 out there, Charlie Mingus, all these people with very different 381 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,080 views of how jazz can be. And they're all living in the 382 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,600 same world, existing, and they're all, that's when music 383 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,360 is strong, you know what I mean? So for me, the the strength of 384 00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:12,880 bluegrass is when we have lots and lots of really strong points 385 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:23,440 of view that are different. The Chris Thiele effect can be 386 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,720 like that where gosh, he plays so great. 387 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,160 Like maybe he's the greatest mandolin player who's ever 388 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:33,600 lived, quite possibly, but he doesn't do what Sam Bush does. 389 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,520 So all the kids that follows Chris Thiele, they all play with 390 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,080 a, a technique with a lower action and they have technical 391 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:40,480 wizardry all up and down the neck. 392 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:45,240 But Sam doesn't have, but they don't learn how to chop the way 393 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:46,760 Sam does. They don't know learn how to 394 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:48,360 create a sound with their instrument. 395 00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:51,160 They don't learn the simpler points of melody and Bill 396 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,960 Monroe's effect on the music and and that stuff can be lost. 397 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,080 And so with me, I'm similar to that too. 398 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,520 The guys that came before me were probably more rooted, had 399 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,640 more of the original drive of bluegrass and I was the hybrid 400 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:05,440 guy. And as I get older now, you 401 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,840 know, you near the Cliff before you fall off into gone and you 402 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:10,720 start going, you know, there's really something to that. 403 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,760 Those those older sounds, those older guys, they're not less 404 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,200 important. Like Lester Young is not less 405 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,680 important than Charlie Parker just because Charlie Parker 406 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:20,920 could play faster. I mean, Charlie Parker's my 407 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:22,880 favorite, but you know what I'm saying? 408 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,280 So it's interesting. You can see a lot of that at at 409 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,480 some of these kinds of festivals where they're celebrating a 410 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,640 diversity of musical points of view. 411 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:33,680 Yeah, no, that's beautifully said. 412 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:38,920 And you know, this, I guess this year's big years, it feels like 413 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,320 last year already. You know, I, I had my first 414 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:48,400 encounter with Molly Tuttle and, and also Yasmine Williams, you 415 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:53,680 know, and, and so lots of examples of kind of new 416 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,480 perspectives on the sound. But every once in a while, 417 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:01,240 they'll decide to lock into a really traditional mode, you 418 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:05,400 know, And then Big Ears also has presented people who are 419 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,080 sticking to those those guns a little more strictly so. 420 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:10,200 Yeah. Well, I think there's something 421 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,640 that in they started calling it in bluegrass, the ancient tones, 422 00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:16,120 which that's a. Good term. 423 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,200 It was good because there's a certain way when you play some 424 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,560 of that music where it just resonates the instruments in the 425 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:23,320 room and you feel everybody feels it. 426 00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:25,880 It's like, wow, this feels like it's ain't in this ancient. 427 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,240 But you also hear that in certain kinds of jazz and even 428 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:34,160 certain kinds of classical music and, and you start to see what 429 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,000 are the qualities that all of these musics have in common. 430 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,960 And of course, they're always the virtuoso guys. 431 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,480 And then there's the people with the the depth that aren't trying 432 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,080 to do that at all. The people that are exploring, 433 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:49,160 you know, abstract concepts that aren't worried about technique 434 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,560 at all, but they're, they're in a whole different, you know, 435 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,440 when they have a whole different point of view, it's really cool. 436 00:23:02,940 --> 00:23:04,420 OK. You've got the line up, up. 437 00:23:04,740 --> 00:23:07,180 Yeah. And the question is, you know, 438 00:23:07,460 --> 00:23:11,920 if you could pick two or three things that you would love to 439 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:13,440 see. I don't know if you'll get to, 440 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:19,120 but you know, just out of anything here, what looks super 441 00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:21,200 exciting to you? I'm going to be stuck in the A's 442 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:22,680 and I'm never going to get to the B's. 443 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:27,200 But well, I do think I would definitely go check out, if 444 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,960 you're talking about the ancient tones, Allison Degroote and 445 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,760 Tatiana Hargraves. I've known Tatiana since she was 446 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,000 a little girl. She's always had a sounded like 447 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,560 an old soul to me. She's a deep, deep, deep 448 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,360 musician and Allison is fantastic banjo player, but it's 449 00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:44,360 just going to be banjo and fiddle, but it's going to be 450 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,600 it's going to be heavy. It's going to be a beautiful and 451 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,880 have some of that ancient tones that we're talking about. 452 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,120 A great endorsement. Well, man, I would love to watch 453 00:23:58,120 --> 00:23:58,760 that show. I'm going to. 454 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,800 I don't know if I'll be there. If I can, I certainly will. 455 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:02,960 I wanted to. I mean, I love both of them. 456 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,520 Rouge Aftab. I really wish I could hear her. 457 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:10,400 She was supposed to play before Zakir and Edgar and I in Chicago 458 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,480 at Centennial Park last summer, and then she got sick or 459 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,440 something happened and she didn't didn't play. 460 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,320 So I was dying to hear her. But I I've been checking her 461 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:26,520 out. Bill Frizzell is, I think I've 462 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,720 seen kind of pretty much that band before. 463 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,760 Maybe it's a little different. Sure, it'll be great. 464 00:24:32,360 --> 00:24:34,240 Cassandra Jenkins I'd really like to hear her. 465 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,120 I'm I I knew her Bennett when I didn't even know she was a 466 00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:39,120 singer. She was a friend of a friend of 467 00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:41,680 mine, and I was I was liked her as a person. 468 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,280 And then all of a sudden now she's like, she got, you know, 469 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,360 best album of the year from New York Times. 470 00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:49,480 It's like, what? What is that? 471 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,280 Cassie Jenkins Yes, it is. So I'm really thrilled for her. 472 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,640 And I'd like to see what she's doing on a personal level. 473 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,320 Oh, Herbie Nichols sung. That's crazy. 474 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,080 Not Faye Big. I don't know the the singer, but 475 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:06,320 I know Herbie. Nichols music. 476 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,440 This is Faye Victor. Yeah, she's a, she's a really 477 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,480 wonderful jazz singer and songwriter. 478 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,120 And so this is, you know, sort of her lyrical adaptation of 479 00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:19,560 some Herbie Nichols tunes. Well, it's just going to show 480 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,280 you how many people I don't know here like this is the cool thing 481 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,480 is there's just artist after artist that I don't know. 482 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,200 But I know that I could just walk from place to place and get 483 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,960 my mind blown because I know Ashley's not going to have any 484 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,680 slackers here. Rufus Wainwright, I, you know, I 485 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,800 don't know what he's doing, but it's going to be great. 486 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,800 It's going to be great. He's all, I think he's one of my 487 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,800 favorite singers, honestly. I think he's just one of the 488 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:47,200 most wonderful vocalists ever. Oh, I would check out the Edgar 489 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,240 Meyer's new trio. Of course, he's a friend of 490 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:54,240 mine, but he's got this string trio that's playing some music 491 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,840 that Edgar wrote a lot of it in the 80s, these these string 492 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,440 trios that he wrote, but he never really got to do them with 493 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,160 the way he wanted. And he's put together a group. 494 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,640 Tessa Lark is a unbelievable fiddle player. 495 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,320 Joshua Roman is an incredible cellist. 496 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,160 And I heard them play this music not too long ago and it was 497 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,800 fabulous. It was just very, very unusual. 498 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:15,160 Oh, this is great. Yeah. 499 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:16,400 I don't know Tessa. So that's. 500 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,640 Oh. She's, yeah, I mean, she's a 501 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,880 classical player. She's just, she's just playing 502 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,520 Edgar's notes. But it's like she's turned into 503 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:34,480 him. I guess the the last question I 504 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:40,200 have for you is about this trio with Edmar and Antonio. 505 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:47,200 You know, so NPR and Jazz native in America captured the the duo 506 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,040 that you did with Edmar in the church, which was, you know, 507 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,520 fantastic. Antonio brings a brings a whole 508 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,200 different dimension. Have you have you done a lot 509 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,200 with the trio so far? Or yeah. 510 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,360 So what we did was we got together, rehearsed for a couple 511 00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:06,760 of days, and then we did six nights at the Blue Note in New 512 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:07,720 York City. Oh, nice. 513 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,520 And then we went into the studio and recorded the record in 2 1/2 514 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,520 days. So that gave us an opportunity 515 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,440 to, like, really create some new material base built for this 516 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,280 group. When I played with Edmar, it was 517 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:24,440 really wonderful, but but my only bud is I didn't quite know 518 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,160 how to write for him, how to think for him, because although 519 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,560 he has incredible harmonic possibilities, if you don't know 520 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,320 how his levers work, you don't know how to write for them. 521 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,560 So I could write something that seemed quite simple to me. 522 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,680 And he said, oh, no, no, no, man, I, I, that's not going to 523 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,160 work live. And I'm really OK. 524 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,320 It's just a, you know, just this one chord is the only thing. 525 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:44,800 It's not, you know, but no, it doesn't work. 526 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,720 So, so we got together and I would have a tune somewhat 527 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,920 written, but I would have options and I would show him and 528 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,560 he'd say, well, if it works way better if we use this and it'll 529 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,680 fit my instrument better. And gradually sort of started to 530 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,360 figure out intuitively. And then he wrote some great 531 00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:00,280 stuff and then Antonio wrote some great stuff. 532 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:02,800 But it's this stuff is very edgy. 533 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,160 Like what what happened when we got together is it's a place 534 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,200 that's safe to play hot and like go for it. 535 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:12,920 It's a lot of Latin rhythmic forward energy, which it's very 536 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,440 interesting that with with such tight powerful rhythm, I can 537 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,120 really play like a banjo, like a bluegrass banjo player sometimes 538 00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:22,120 and have it not sound stupid. Where if I was playing with a 539 00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:25,600 more conventional jazz trio that we didn't have the Latin 540 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,480 component, I wouldn't be able to do that. 541 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,840 I would be playing more in a guitaristic kind of style. 542 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,040 But with with these guys, I can roll, I can do my right hand 543 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,760 stuff that I do in Newgrass Revival Even so. 544 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,120 So it's it's very comfortable for me. 545 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:41,520 It's very comfortable for everybody. 546 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,400 It's Titus as crap cuz Antonio. That, yeah. 547 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,920 Yeah, but when we got going, it was like boop. 548 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:48,680 Oh. Yeah. 549 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,640 Can't can't get off. He's he's so. 550 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,200 Can't get off. He's so quick and he's such an 551 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,040 incredible deep listener, so responsive. 552 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:58,960 And then Edmar is like a rhythm section. 553 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:01,200 You know he's a. Big job. 554 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,640 Yeah. But on the record, if you didn't 555 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:05,640 know, you'd think there was a bass most of the time, and you'd 556 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,280 say, why did the bass go away? Well, because he's playing harp 557 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,480 and he and when it comes back it's very satisfying. 558 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,480 But I think we we created a really great lock and, and 559 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:19,680 refined it afterwards. So I'm very, very proud of of 560 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:31,680 the project. Big Ears Conversations about 561 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,840 Music is production of Big Ears Festival. 562 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,640 This week's episode was hosted by Nate Chanel. 563 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,440 The show is produced by Meet Matt Merrowitz. 564 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,360 Trevor Smith is our editor. Ashley Capps is the executive 565 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,400 and artistic director of Big Ears Festival. 566 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,480 For more information, visit bigearsfestival.org.