Welcome to BIG Ears conversations about music.
I'm your host, Sarah Gilletti. Pat Metheny requires almost no
introduction. For more than 5 decades, he's
been a defining voice on the guitar, possessed of a singular,
instantly recognizable sound. And even in his most dazzling
moments, there's nearly always a melody guiding the way.
Over the years, Metheny's played with everyone from Joni Mitchell
and Jim Hall to Ornett Coleman, Jocko Pistorius, Charlie Haden
and beyond. Here he talks with journalist
Nate Shannon about his heroes who later became his friends.
He also speaks of generational talents who've defined many of
his memorable collaborations. Brad Mehldau, Antonio Sanchez,
Christian McBride, and from the new breed of Young Lions.
In particular, his fondness for drummer Joe Dyson that discusses
the growth he's experienced touring the world as a solo
guitarist in recent years, how he values sincerity in music and
how hard it is to write one really good song.
Finally, he acknowledges how excited he is to make his big
year's debut in 2026. Let's listen in.
The Pat It's been a while. It's so good to.
Catch up with you. How you doing?
I'm doing pretty well. I was thinking about that.
Before. Going out on this side.
Eye tour, you did a. Whole lot of dates with.
Solo acoustic guitar. And I have to imagine that night
after night, being in these rooms with a lot of people, and
then just being yourself on stage with your instrument
there. There's something so elemental
about that. I wondered if you can speak.
To. The sort of emotional current or
psychic energy of that, just doing that for so long and and
having it be. So exposed.
Well exposed. Doesn't feel like the right
word, but maybe it is. Well, it certainly was exposed.
I mean, you know, it's like the concert did a lot of different
things, but. At least 2 thirds 3/4.
Of it maybe was just sitting there playing the a guitar.
I mean, there were. Different guitars that.
Came and went. And you're right, it was a lot
of gigs at the. End I counted them all up, it
was 210 concerts total. It's just kind of always been
this thing that was this useful translation device for ideas.
And I mean, it really did begin with this whole baritone guitar
thing, which was 1 quiet night about 20 years ago.
This thing of tuning this guitar in this particular way that I
had remembered from a guy showing me in in Missouri really
when I first. Started that just.
Kind of opened up a sense of what solo guitar might be that
was different. I'm always kind of thinking
about orchestration in a way, the thing of being able.
To have a really low. Note with these different kinds
of voicings, really. Just was like, wow, that's.
Fascinating. And that opened.
Up this idea. Of playing solo, which resulted
first in that record and then the the one that followed it.
And I kind of made an error. My hero.
Everybody knows Wes Montgomery, right?
Wes was one of those. Guys, he.
Rarely made any mistakes. It's hard to find.
Them there are a couple but that.
Became a thing for me where I don't mess up too much, but when
you're playing solo, man. I could play 10,000.
Notes. And if I get one in there, it's
like my kids will come up afterwards.
Dad, that was great, but it. Seems like on that one tune, you
know, and I'm like. You know I should have.
Been like, you know, miles or, or like even SKO, it's like, you
know, it's, it's fine because. Part of the.
Sound is like kind of, you know, it's kind of like there's a.
Lot of wiggle. Room and there's not a whole.
Lot of wiggle. Room in my general thing and
that in the early going was like, wow, I, you know.
I have to be. Like almost 100% all the time.
Because it's so exposed. And then the other thing.
If I think about across. The 210.
Gigs. There's just many levels.
Of advancement in terms of playing the instrument.
Well, that's interesting that. I had never gotten to before
because I had just never had the occasion to really work on it
like that. So by the end, I mean, even even
now, I can play things that I just couldn't have played.
Three years ago. I mean lots of things.
This wasn't a pandemic project for you necessarily, right?
Because it's the solitary. Instrument and it's the focus on
clarity and a new level of fundamentals.
If you had told me this is the thing that Pat brought out of
the pandemic, I would say, yeah, yeah, that makes sense, but it's
not that. No, not at all.
I mean, I kind of started it. I think it was 2. 1019 when I
did. The trial gigs.
At that point, that was kind of when I realized why I should do
this. And everything talking about the
pandemic, I mean, everything got so jumbled after that in terms
touring and. Was sort of like this.
Regrouping of all kinds of. Stuff so the solo.
Thing kind of got pushed back as an idea of something to do, and
then I was only going to do 40 and it was interesting because
kind of the word. Got out that it was.
Something really different in terms of a kind of presentation
that I had done and it just became something where they kept
saying there were more opportunities to play and it
then it just kept going and going and it was incredible for
me, man, it was so fun and once I kind of.
Got used to it. I mean, my main gig from really
almost the beginning has been bandleader, you know, I mean
that that's been my job really, and.
What comes with? That when I think about the
range of people that. I've had.
Kind of under my wing in a way, day in and day out.
I mean, man. This was great because all I
really had to worry. About was like, you know.
What do I got to do to play good?
Tonight and I. Really got to the.
Point where I was like wow, this is this is cool and I was really
sad when it ended actually. I'm curious about something you
said regarding the what you can do on the instrument.
Just developing this new vocabulary.
It. So that then comes with you when
you go back to band leading, right?
Do you feel that it's fundamentally sort of deepened
or altered your playing in some way?
I would say that an experience like that for me was just an
incredible growing experience. I could even say character
building experience by. Virtue of the fact that.
I mean, the last gig was Carnegie Hall, and it was
Carnegie Hall type. Places all over the world.
For thousands of people, you know, it's kind of huge in a way
to walk there and you know, with an instrument and just start
playing for not a tune or a couple tunes, but for like a
couple hours. And the best part of it for me?
Was that after a while? It's really a viable another way
of thinking for me in terms of how to how to be as a musician
and I had had a baritone nylon. Guitar for a while.
But I could never get it to sound right because of the
strings and sort. Of just as the tour.
Began. I kind of cracked.
That code. And suddenly I had this what was
a completely new instrument for me, and that resulted in that
moondial record. Yeah, which is representative.
Of a lot of the. Things that I'm talking about,
I couldn't have done that record until that point in the tour,
even with that instrument. And I love that idea of
something sort of being unlocked, you know, where you're
like, oh, and then having right, having that documentation.
Now you mentioned 2019 as a moment when you were beginning
to experiment and and that's. Also a year that I.
Have in my mind because I just looked it up on my calendar.
I saw. An early version of Side Eye at
Sony Hall on September 12th, 2019.
And so this was with James Francis and Marcus Gilmore, and
I did not know. What to expect?
From this ensemble, and it was. Such a beautiful.
Performance and so just immersive.
And then subsequently that. I think that whole run provided
some of the material for the album that came out.
Well, the album that came out is from that gig.
On the one hand, it is a very new proposition, and on the
other hand. It is so like.
Quintessentially you, both in terms of the material and the
sound world this now has. Toured widely?
You're about to. Release another album with
different collaborators but the same.
Side eye project. And I'd love to hear.
You talk about how? Well, first of all, what?
Led you to. This concept and then how?
It's evolved over these. Last 5-6 years.
Well, the basic idea was. A good chunk of my early thing
around Kansas City was organ trio type stuff and I've.
Always liked the idea of that. Of kind of one person sort of
being in charge of everything really in terms of harmony and
baselines and all that. And also it seemed to me like.
The tech. Had evolved to the point where
it didn't. Necessarily have to be exactly.
You know AB3 baseline or you know any?
Aspect of exactly. What an organ trio thing would
be. That it could.
Be a lot of different things. But that idea was a.
Kind of cool idea. So that was kind of the the, the
impetus of it. And at the same time, I mean, I
was such a beneficiary of. Gary Burton, Steve Swallow,
Herbie. On and on, all the Jack, all the
incredible guys that were 1012 years older than me that that
gave me the chance to play and be on band stands with them.
And I first kind of experienced that.
You know, at the time I came along, there was one other kind
of immediate guy and that was my buddy Jocko.
And then there was a long period where it was really hard to find
people kind of almost right on cue at the same range that Jack
and Gary and all those guys were to me came along.
These guys, Brad, Antonio, Christian, Brian, Larry
Grenadier, Bill Stewart, all. Those guys, it was sort of like.
Oh, there's my. Tribe, there's those guys like.
Man, I've been waiting for you guys.
And yeah, the one exception to that is Kenny Garrett, who to me
is. Like, truly the real deal.
But really it was those guys who are in that particular age range
where it was like, oh, yeah. And so then there's kind of been
to me another lull after them. So I get a lot of people.
Up here at my place. Just to play because I.
Really want to find people and it's really hard to find people.
It's not hard at all now to find people who can play.
Really complicated. Shit, that's to find.
People who can do that and then also just play the melody and
have it mean something is almost impossible for me.
So it's an interesting time because so, so often I hear
musicians and I think, well, what is your message to me in
all this? And mostly.
What I hear is. My message is that I am a really
good musician and I can I can really play my instrument.
That message is really not something that, you know, at
least for me is that compelling to listen to over and over
again. It's it's fun at the time.
I mean, you know, I go hear people play and I go wow, you
know, but it's a little bit like going to the Knicks game or
something. It's kind of that was amazing.
And then, you know, you go do whatever and you know, I I tend
to like, you know, I'm kind of always referencing, you know,
the the real thing And I was fortunate to be around it a lot,
you know, with Paul Blay or, you know, I mean on and on Sonny
Rollins or net Gary, you know, swallowed.
You know, it's like, man, there's so much about.
What that is, that is. So much more than the fact.
That yeah, they play great. Yeah.
And in in all of those cases you can just say the name and you
get. This whole world.
In your mind of what that means, you say Joe Henderson.
It's like, Oh, yeah, I know what that means, you know?
And so, you know, not saying that that can't emerge from
somebody who starts, you know, in that kind of other zone, but
that's what I'm looking for. Always.
Is something like that, but at the same time, my particular
thing is much harder than people often think because I think that
it sometimes it sounds easier than it is in a way.
I've always gotten a kick out of watching real hardcore bebop
guys, you know, stumble. All over the bridge to.
James Because it's like, you know, it's really hard to do
that in a way, you know, and and so it's a really tough set of
circumstances. But you know, for me, it all
starts with the drums. And right now there are so many
good drummers. I mean, that's the thing that is
really exciting to me. Is that there are like 6 guys
right now? I could hire in a second and I
would be. Totally happy with them so.
That's really something, but there's one.
Guy that really. Stands out and that's Joe Dyson,
who for me is I. You know, I thought with
Antonio, I had the guy, you know, I was going to get one guy
like that in my life, you know that.
The guy that. I always thought would never be
born, you know, and that was Antonio.
And I mean, I was on the bandstand with this guy for 20
years and I can think of 2 bars that were not perfect.
I mean, I've never seen any musician that has that kind of
consistency. With a clock.
I mean it's just it's like mind boggling what they got.
Yeah. And and then but at the same
time also. So like flowing?
And. Got a?
Lot to talk about there's. He's always saying stuff and you
know, it's like. He's one of those.
Guys, I mean, you know, I can like smell his mom's cooking and
stuff. You know, it's like, really,
he's got a thing. Besides the fact that he's.
You know, kind of technically probably one of the greatest
drummers of all time, you know, but it's like, that's not even
what's so cool. About it.
And Joe, in a completely different way, is like that,
too. And so it's like, yeah, I mean,
I'm just kind of basking in the drums.
I mean, in a lot of ways. I mean, all I really want to do
is play with the drums. I have a lot.
Of I was mentioning about getting people to come up here,
mostly it's drummers and me and that's my favorite stuff to
listen to is just bar and drums. I don't know that it's a a
platform that has much broad. Appeal.
But at least for me. That's really what it.
Is is the drums and in in the case of pretty much all other
instruments, it's a struggle for me now to find fine cads.
That's yeah, that's so interesting.
Because, as you say, there's. So much proficiency everywhere
and there's also a kind of multi fluency that and I want to talk.
About that a little, because this is a big.
Part of. What the generation that that?
You're a part of brought to the. Scene is this sort of?
Ability to be authoritative. Playing the Blues and playing
something that is a little more folk oriented and playing
something that's like very complex formally and doing
something that. Is like, really?
Seriously. Brazilian that you know, just
all of these different kinds of modalities, this idea that you
can do that without going into. A bag necessarily, right?
But. But just be flexible and and
really kind of do all of that. I really associate.
That development with people that.
You've. Played with forever and you know
some of some of whom we sadly. Lost recently like Jack.
Jack. Dejanette.
This generational thing, and it's interesting to me.
Because that. Multi fluency is has become so
much more common. But what I hear you saying is
that it's not just. About that, you also have to.
Have a message and you have to have a kind of emotional truth.
Am I paraphrasing correctly there?
Yeah. It is an interesting thing
because it's sort of. Like what are we all?
Doing here anyway. I mean what?
What what's what's what is? This, you know, I mean, what is
music where you know, and music is something that is self
evidently transcendent of anything else in this plane of
our existence. You know, it's just not like
anything else. It's a interesting puzzle that
reveals to me more and more as. The years go by.
Kind of essential information. And it's that essential
information that I'm looking for from the musicians that I want
to invest my ears in, you know, really and.
That's. True for me as a fan as much as
it is as somebody who's going to be on a bandstand with somebody
and when I hear. It I get so excited.
You know, it's like, you know, it makes me think, well, I'm not
crazy. Like, for instance, Emmanuel
Wilkins. His first, That first record, I
was like, wow. They're like like that.
You guys. That's what I'm talking about.
There's so many guys now. Everybody writes their own tunes
and I'm like, it's. Hard to write a good.
Tune you got to be. Careful with that.
Stuff, you know, it's serious. People sometimes are surprised
when I tell them it's like, yeah, you know, OK, I'm going to
write 10 tunes and I'm going to. Throw away.
Seven or eight of them and they're fine.
It's not like there's anything wrong.
It's that if I don't remember them then they're not worth
doing. That's such a basic.
Thing it's like, yeah, right. And I mean, I hear so much music
kind of in our general community.
It's like, man, I don't think I could remember that for like one
second after I heard it. And a lot of it to me sounds
melodically like harmony parts more than melodies too.
Because I mean, as much as harmony and rhythm can be really
discussed, melody is like this. X Factor part of it all that
that. You know, it can show up in so
many different ways. I mean, it's not as simple as,
like, you know, OK, we're going to be melodic now.
I mean, being melodic is different than actually melody.
And. Oh, OK.
Ornette was really like yeah. I was going to say Ornette.
This is all pointing towards Ornette for me.
The. But you know also.
I think it shows up. In many, many different ways.
And it's very elusive to, to, to me even to like, you know, like,
OK, what am I talking about here?
And if I had to like, you know, give a lecture on it, I don't
think I could, I don't think. I could say, well it's because
of this. That and the other thing.
It's it's. You know.
It's the. It's the.
Part of music that you can't really breakdown.
I should mention the big ears. Festival.
Because we are on the Big Ears podcast and there are some
examples. Of people your.
Friend John Zorn is another example.
I think of someone who you know not.
Always. But he is.
He can really get into like, deep melody.
Man, he is to me. I mean, I know people know John.
I know he's even very well known.
He is like the most underrated cat on the planet, man.
Yeah, right. I mean, you know, I.
Get I every every. Year or so he sends me like,
well, this. Is what I did.
This year and it's like 14 CDs and with, you know, an opera and
two string quartets and, you know, and they're all killing
and they all have great album covers and you know it.
I mean, I think, man, what have I done this year?
It's the the, the focus and the. Output you're right, is.
Unbelievable. Incredible.
And I have been at Big Ears when he has done actually twice now
that that he's done, you know, these big residencies where he
has, you know, a whole bunch of different ensembles playing his
music. And, you know, he plays in some
and then in others. He's conducting and.
So have you played? The Big Gears festival before.
I think so. I'm trying to remember though,
because I not since it's become what it is now, which is sort of
this destination of great music. I mean, it's really prestigious
and and rightly so, world known thing that people come from all
over. I mean, I've heard from people,
you know, like, you know, in Norway and Japan who are like,
oh, we're coming to big ears, you know, this year.
We'll see you there. You know, it's like a thing as
you know, as you all know and you know, man.
I got to say. As somebody from Missouri to see
that happening in Knoxville is man points for all in concerned,
you know, I mean. It's.
Just incredible. It's open and so.
I feel like it's a wonderful. Place for you to be.
Passing through because I think of of you as one of those
people. Just to this.
Is kind of the way. You.
Hear things is with that
openness and flexibility and sincerity, right?
You just use the word. That is the one which.
Is I do. Like music that is sincere as
opposed to music that is ironic. Or there's a million other kind
of variations that take you away from sincerity, which is a
dangerous place to live. As a.
Musician or as a somebody who's trying to get a certain.
Vibe out there because. You're not shielded by irony.
And I mean, you know. People I've, I've said.
This many times, I mean a model for me, a huge model.
And this was true at the times. Karen Carpenter.
I mean, to me, that's what a musician is.
And wow. You know, at the time it was
like, oh man, that's so corny. And I'm like, man, if you think
that's corny, there's something wrong with you.
After long enough of being alone, everyone must face their
share of love. She is kill and she's one of
those musicians. Too, as the years go.
By and you. Hear that you go.
It's. Even better than I thought it
was. I mean, you know, but it's like
there is not one drop of anything but the real deal
coming from her there. It's so interesting that you
mention her. Because I have two daughters.
And they both love to sing and and the.
Carpenters were very. You know, they were very
important to my parents who were both singers and so sometime.
Last year I sat. Down my older daughter who is,
you know, doing a lot of choral singing and I said, hey, I want
you to listen to. This this track.
And just, you know, just kind of like hear what's happening on
this And I played her. They long to be close to you and
you know that breakdown towards the end where we get into the
the brilliant stacked vocal harmony, you know this
incredible. It's like operatic on.
The day that you were born, the angels got together and decided
to create a dream come true. And she didn't have much to.
Say, but I could tell. She was just like, oh.
And I feel like not enough people or some folks have
forgotten that and some others have not encountered it.
So I'm glad you mentioned. That's the real shit.
There's no filter there. There's no gauze in front of
that. There's a vulnerability.
To it right because it's. Like there's just no armor.
So, so yeah, that's. Always been a little bit of a
thing for me, of I mean of course.
We all hear stuff. Differently, you know, and there
have been many, many times too, I've been wrong.
Like, oh man, I don't think, I don't think that's.
Really. Whatever.
And then a couple. Years later, it's like, why?
Wait a minute. Can you name an example of
something you came around on? Lady Gaga first I was like,
what? Is this man, you know, she kind
of, you know what is that man? She's incredible.
She's an amazing singer, an incredible musician.
And I completely missed it. You almost.
Always have to hear. Something a bunch of times.
Before you really get it. And there's always kind of like
the sort of, I mean, especially now we're in an, I mean, it used
to. Be like needle drop.
And now it's like, you know, it's not even half a second.
I identify with what you're saying about sometimes needing
to hear something a bunch of times.
But you also have had at least a couple of.
Examples. And I'll name 1 where something
you heard something for just a moment and it was like
electricity ran through you. The example you've named in
conversation was hearing Brad Mehldau's solo on a Joshua
Redmond quartet song and just knowing immediately.
Like whoever that is. Like he's.
Got the thing that I, that I, you know, and so I, I, I wonder
if you can name any more recent examples of that where you, you
heard something and it, you just knew right away.
I wish I could. Man, you know that may be the
last time that happened. That's interesting.
Wow. And, you know, it's funny, I, I,
I really, I mean, you know, there's, I mean, again, I've
probably missed all kinds of stuff, but you're exactly right.
I mean, that was like within half a.
Chorus. I was like wait.
A minute I'm pulling over. There's been a lot of.
Great stuff, Brad is. Kind of in some ways.
I don't want to say he's the last chapter in a book.
It just feels so good, you know, the way he plays.
But. He.
Has really and continues to because he's just getting better
all the time. He's defined a a a world he's
in. He's one of those guys like Joe
Henderson, Brad Mehldau. I mean, it's like you just say
the name and there's. This universe appears.
And I mean there's. Lots of people I like.
And I that and that I will continue to hire and work with
and explore and and all that. But even when I was coming up in
Kansas City, I wasn't thinking about like the other guys
around. I was thinking about Wes
Montgomery and. Compared to that, I sucked.
You know, and, and, and, you know, I'm thinking about Bach
and I'm thinking about, you know, I, I, I, I don't think of
it. I mean, to me, the standards in
music are very clear. And those standards are very
high. Yeah.
And you know, the the the thing for me is that I've just been so
lucky to be around some of the the actual cats men and a lot
and learn from and and shared this bandstand with and and
became also very, very close friends with.
I mean, you mentioned Jack. I mean, you know, we were next
door neighbors. For 40 years, I was.
Me and Terry Lynn were there at the hospital when he, you know,
passed. And yeah, I mean, it was a very,
I mean. Of course, the greatest.
Musician on his instrument of his time, but I mean he was you
know my neighbor my one of my best friends and he watched all
of my kids grow up and me with his kids and you know I mean
it's like that and and he's. Jack, the guy who's.
On, you know, like probably half of my favorite records, you
know, I mean, you know, I get to play a lot with Ron Carter now,
you know, and same kind of thing.
It's like, man, I mean, he's. The greatest but.
Man, it's Ron. He's.
Such a beautiful. Cat, you know, and Ornette was
one of the greatest human beings ever, you know, and somehow it
does all go together, you know, I mean, it's so it's interesting
for me kind of also at this stage, you know, where I mean,
somehow I'm 70 something now, man, I mean, I don't even know
how that happened, but. But it's what it.
Is, and I mean, I look around now and I mean I look on my own
records and it's like probably more than half the people that
are on them are no longer on the planet, you know?
So that's that's a. Kind of thing too and that.
But then I think about Roy Haynes, who you know, he was in
that. Category for probably the last
30 years of his life. You know where his.
His friends, his best buddies that were the Pete.
His people. They weren't on the planet for,
you know. The last few decades of.
The time he was around and he, he hired, you know, Roy and
Kenny and everybody. Royce like.
You know, perfectly righteous and elegant response was to, you
know, turn towards the younger generation and become.
That he didn't want to think like that.
And you know what that was? That was sincere, too.
He was like, well, no, I'm just trying to learn too.
I'm just trying. To figure it out.
You know, it was always interesting to me, him and Paul
Motion, man, they would, you know, they.
Would set set up the. Drums.
And. Sit there for an hour before,
you know, the first set just working on the drums, you know,
working on tuning and working on this and that.
I mean, you know, it was like, you know, it's I feel the same
way. I feel kind of exactly the same
as I did when I was 13. It's like I'm just trying to
figure it out, trying to get better.
And you know, I'm think it's going to be that way right to
the end, you know, just because that's.
What I saw with those? Guys, you know, Yeah, Yeah.
And not all musicians are like that.
There are some others that are, you know, once they got anything
together at all. They were like, OK, that's.
It I'm good and then they just kind of do that.
But man the the you know, like Roy you know, or or man you know
many. Others it's like still just.
Trying to figure it out. Really.
Yeah. You mentioned age and, and, and
sort of generation and you have been for a long time now hanging
with with, you know, a lot of younger players from at this
point, multiple generations because, you know, Christian and
Brad are younger and Antonio's younger.
But then, you know, Joe Dyson is he's from a whole other scene.
And so do you think of yourself having that kind of, you know,
mentor capacity? Do you think about the influence
that you've had, or do you try not?
To go there. Well, you've probably heard.
That I'm not like a kind of bandleader.
That's where it's like, yeah. Let's you know, let's just play.
I mean, I'll spend hours talking with everybody about everything
and had been that. Way since I was. 19, you know,
including with Jocko and everybody else, like, you know,
that's great. But you know, and I mean, I've
always been like that, you know, that's still true.
And, and I think, you know, I always warn people too, I'm
like, you know, this is not going to be like what some other
gigs might be. There's going to be a lot of
talking. And a lot of that is also
because 95% of what I play is also something that I've
written. So, you know, from the
composer's standpoint, I've always got really strong.
Ideas like and they're very. Specific sometimes, you know,
like. OK, at this place you got to go
to the other. Symbol and maybe the next night
that didn't happen and there that guy's going to hear like,
no, I'm serious. It's like you got to go to the
other. Symbol on that section, you
know, I mean, so there's always been that and and there still is
and I don't know if that's mentoring or just being.
Whatever it is. I am as a bandleader, but that
certainly comes with the territory.
In terms of like claiming influence, I'm.
I would always be reluctant to to do that because I mean, man,
you know, every single thing I play, I can say, well, yeah,
that came from like, you know, that record and this came from,
you know, I mean, it's like. All of us are this.
You know, coming from the. People that we loved.
As fans, basically, right? So just by virtue of hanging
around for a while and being on, you know, not just my records.
But a bunch of other people's records that were.
Kind of influential records, There's a certain amount of that
there. I would.
Say there was a kind of Sonic thing that I guess I know.
For a fact that. I was.
Kind of the first person. To do it because I was, you
know, nobody was doing the thing of having 2 amps or three amps
and having a little bit of delay and reverb and you know, all
that kind of stuff. I mean, you know, I can.
There was probably 3 or. Four years where nobody else was
doing that at the time. Now everybody does that.
And for better or for? Worse, sometimes I hear and I'm
go, my God, that sounds. Horrible.
What are you? Doing and then the guitar synth
stuff too and you know that, you know, again, it's sort of like.
For better or for worse. But I mean, you know, those are
things that. I guess I could say.
Well, you know, I I know that that there wasn't that.
Before but. But on the other hand, you know,
I had, I witnessed Gary Burton playing with four mallets that.
Particular way. You know, Jocko was, you know,
kind of my closest friend for a few years there before anybody
knew anything about either one of us.
And that was. Part of what I thought you were
supposed to do. Is come up with some shit, you
know? Yeah.
Something that, you know, that was not like anything else.
And it was only in that period the, you know, dressing up and
playing for. Your parents period where
suddenly. It was like, oh, we don't have
to do that. And I'm like, no, you actually
still do. You're supposed to.
Still do that, but the the good news for me is
that I can find. Cats who can play those?
Grooves now, which was very difficult for a long time.
Mm Hmm. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, you know, I once was talking.
With Carla Blair about her. Influence as a composer.
And she kind of was like, I don't know.
I don't know if you know, I don't know what anyone got from
me and the the. Way that I responded to her was,
well, it's it's. Kind of like your fluoride in
the water supply you. Know.
And she liked that. I bet she did.
Yeah. But I mean so much of your voice
and concept. I mean at this point.
It has travelled so far. And kind of.
Diffused. Into the, you know, the oxygen
into the air we breathe so much that even people who wouldn't.
Actually. Cite you as an influence are in
fact, you know, emulating certain aspects of of your your
thing, you know, and that's a it's a testament to the
originality of the impulse, but also.
Just like what A? Sprawling body of work there is,
you know, it's like there's so many different access points
for, for people that at this point, you know, they, they
could even be unintentionally emulating, if that makes any
sense. Yeah, maybe.
Yeah. It's hard to know.
Well, I am very.
Excited, first of all, that. That you will be at the festival
and then I'll get to hear this, you know, this current version.
Of side eye I have only heard the first track.
On the new album in on it but I. It's.
It's got me very excited. For the rest of it.
A pretty cool record. I got to say.
I'm. I'm I'm.
I'm. Really excited about this
record. I mean, it, it does a bunch of
things that, you know, I, I don't know, it's just not like
anything. It's, it's, I mean, you know, I
think people can probably tell it's me, but it's really, there
are, there are moments along the way.
It's just it's. Really in a different.
Category even. From, you know, my family,
they're like, wow, that's, that's some different.
Stuff, Dad. And you, you know, you're going
to be Rd. dogging it as usual. And so, you know, big ears and.
Knoxville is like. One day, and the day before
you're somewhere else, and the day after you're somewhere else.
Well, yeah, you. You.
Said it correctly, which is
we'll be. Passing through.
Yes, exactly. That'll be fine, but honestly
knowing. How big years has evolved?
And the kind of place it it is and it would be great some year
to come and and. Be there for.
You know, you know, kind of. Over a few days.
To do a bunch of different kinds of things like I know people do.
There. And you know, if we do a good
job, maybe I'll get a chance to. Get invited to do that.
One of those years. Good.
Because that would really be. Fun and interesting for me and I
I'm really happy. That the that it has.
Become what it has become and it you know, I don't know that
there's anything at least in, in the.
States like it. Yeah, I don't think there is.
And you know what? You just said about the.
You know, doing a bunch of different things.
To me that is the biggest no brainer in the history of no
brainers to have used post up and and present a number of
projects. It'd be fun.
Yeah, it would, it would be so great and I I hope it happens.
Pat Metheny makes his Big Year's debut Thursday, March 26th, 7:00
PM at the Historic Tennessee Theatre.
For remaining tickets and daily schedules, visit
bigyearsfestival.org. Big Year's Conversations about
Music is a production of Big Years Festival, I'm Your host
Sarah Gilletti. The show is produced by Matt
Marowitz. This episode was edited by Alex
Arif. Ashley Capps is the executive
and artistic director of Big Ears.
Thanks for listening and until next time, keep those ears wide
open.