1 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,160 Welcome to Big Ears conversations about music. 2 00:00:19,240 --> 00:00:22,720 I'm your host Sarah Gilletti. Today on the podcast, we're 3 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,800 exploring bloodlines interwoven with flutist and taiko drummer 4 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,560 Karu Watanabe. Watanabe is a master of Japanese 5 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,440 flutes and taiko drums. A self-described regular 6 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,560 American kid from St. Louis, MO, he's the son of 7 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,720 Japanese immigrants and symphonic musicians, shaped by 8 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,320 two years on a remote Japanese island, years of touring with a 9 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:46,920 taiko ensemble, Kodo, and collaborations with Yo-yo Ma, 10 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:51,240 Laurie Anderson, Jason Moran, Andre 3000 and the Silk Road 11 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,040 Ensemble. In 2024, with support from the 12 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,360 Mellon Foundation, Log Haven Artist Residency and the Aslan 13 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:02,320 Foundation, Watanabe launched Bloodlines Interwoven, a multi 14 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,920 year project exploring heritage, immigration and diaspora. 15 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,920 It begins with family history and grows into shared creation, 16 00:01:11,320 --> 00:01:13,800 bringing together musicians and storytellers. 17 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,720 At Biggers 2026, the project unfolds across various venues in 18 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,040 downtown Knoxville. No one is better suited to this 19 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,840 conversation than veteran journalist and music critic 20 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,800 Larry Blumenfeld, who has followed Bloodlines since its 21 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,080 inception. Blumenfeld was the perfect 22 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,160 person to speak with Karu about where it began, how it has 23 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,600 grown, and how it takes shape at Big Ears. 24 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:42,320 Let's listen in. Karu, I know that in Knoxville 25 00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:48,480 this year at Big Ears 2026, you will be leading a residency of 26 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,200 the Bloodlines Interwoven project, which will unfold 27 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,720 across several performances. This is something you began in 28 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,840 2024, and what was the idea then? 29 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:07,480 So I was approached by Baryshnikov Arts to curate a 30 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:09,680 quote UN quote world music festival. 31 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,040 And for anyone who knows me that it's kind of the a phrase that I 32 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,920 abhor because the, the term world music instantly centers 33 00:02:17,920 --> 00:02:21,000 who the world is and who's outside of that world, right? 34 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:23,880 And so I said, yes, let's do something. 35 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,960 And it's one thing to curate these again, quote UN quote, 36 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,040 world music festivals where you have a group from Venezuela and 37 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,040 a group from Japan and a group from Iran playing back-to-back 38 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,480 one after the other. And there's a lot of value in 39 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:37,800 that. And then there's a lot of people 40 00:02:37,920 --> 00:02:39,280 here in New York who do that very well. 41 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,800 So I didn't feel I wanted to do that. 42 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:46,480 And because I am a musician and I love to collaborate and I love 43 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:51,560 especially reaching across to different cultures and different 44 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:53,360 parts of the world's and different musical styles and 45 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,800 artistic styles. I wanted to figure out a way to 46 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:01,920 bring together a diverse array of musicians from representing 47 00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:05,240 different geographies and ethnicities and and religions 48 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:11,080 and, and musical practices and bring them together and find a 49 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,640 way of collaborating. That perhaps is coming from a 50 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:17,760 lot of my other practices where we don't just come and play 51 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,760 music together, but we actually start sharing our family 52 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,600 histories. I remember you early on telling 53 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:28,080 me, well, this is a chamber jazz opera ensemble orchestra that 54 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,520 along with music making also deals with storytelling and 55 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,320 ritual. And for me, I've experienced it 56 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,000 as everything from Here's a great ensemble theater company 57 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:43,200 to here's a great musical ensemble to here's a family 58 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,200 getting together the way families get together. 59 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:51,840 Now I know a lot of this has to do with bringing, when you say 60 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:55,920 bloodlines, bringing personal histories and lineages together, 61 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,200 right? Yeah, which gets complicated 62 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,200 very quickly because some people are more comfortable sharing 63 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,040 than others. And so if right from the 64 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,360 beginning I'm saying, you know, share what you want to share, 65 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,120 share what you can share. And that in itself is a very 66 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,720 interesting process. Some people like myself, I can 67 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,640 be very linear, linear like, oh, my grandfather was born in this 68 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,279 part of Japan, moved here when he was a certain age and went 69 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:22,240 through this and that. And then my parents moved here 70 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,160 at that point, you know, and and kind of speaking very along a 71 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,080 timetable and other people will come in. 72 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,360 I remember Mino Sinalu came. In and the great percussionist. 73 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,360 Great great percussionist played with Miles and and Turby and all 74 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:40,840 these legends weather Report and he in a beautiful way just kind 75 00:04:40,840 --> 00:04:44,400 of spoke in circles like not no beginning and no end. 76 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,360 Just kind of mentioning time when he went to a club and met 77 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,160 Sting and this happened and that happened. 78 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:51,800 And then I was playing guitar at one point. 79 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,360 And you just, there's a full spectrum of people who really 80 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,400 brought interesting storytelling, the way they told 81 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,400 the story, the way they expressed their story. 82 00:05:00,840 --> 00:05:06,800 Just very recently, Unia Eddie Kwan came and when usually 83 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:11,360 instead of starting from the beginning, she put a a small 84 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,000 carpet out in front of the in the middle of the circle where 85 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:18,040 we're sitting and, and took out a few objects, clearly very 86 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,600 significant, meaningful objects to her and placed them on the 87 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:24,960 floor and took out a gong and just started gently beating the 88 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:29,840 gong and just kind of walked in a small circle and, and then sat 89 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:32,040 down and started, started telling her story. 90 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,960 And immediately, I mean it, it wasn't story time, right? 91 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,520 I mean, we were just talking, but immediately we were just 92 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:42,640 completely drawn in and transformed and the space was 93 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,400 transformed. And that really stuck out to me, 94 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,360 sticks out to me. This is just a bit beautiful. 95 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:52,840 Everyone is so personal. How how people embody their 96 00:05:52,840 --> 00:06:16,800 their lineage. Now, as someone who Once Upon a 97 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,960 time edited a quote UN quote World Music magazine, I share 98 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:25,320 your discomfort with that term. But I know we both embrace A 99 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:29,240 borderless aesthetic. And even as someone who's 100 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:36,120 written about jazz for decades, I know that word comes with its 101 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,000 own baggage. And I know that we're both very 102 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,920 invested in a term called creative music that is both 103 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:47,080 beautiful but maybe diffuse in its associations. 104 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:51,680 But in all those things, when you really get down to the music 105 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:56,200 and the musicians, it is a sharing of lineages and stories. 106 00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:00,360 So I want to delve more deeply into the Bloodlines concept and 107 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,440 its history so far. But maybe we can start with your 108 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:07,880 bloodline, and by that I mean both literally and maybe 109 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,960 musically and aesthetically. So you were born to Saint Louis, 110 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,880 correct? The son of two classical 111 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:16,840 musicians who were born in Japan. 112 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:20,320 Correct. So the Yeah Walk, can you walk 113 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:24,640 us through a little bit the musics that entered your life 114 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,600 and when and how that started to coalesce? 115 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,800 Yeah, my parents were both born in Tokyo. 116 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,720 They were born right around in the middle of World War 2, so 117 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,080 they grew up in post war Tokyo. My father was a violinist, my 118 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,440 mom was a harpist. They moved to the States in the 119 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,200 late 60s for their graduate studies. 120 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,520 Pretty much right out of college, my dad was accepting to 121 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:48,760 the Saint Louis Symphony where he spent 44 years. 122 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:53,040 So I grew up in Saint Louis, didn't speak Japanese back then. 123 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,440 I I grew up in in the 70s and 80s. 124 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,360 And you grew up exposed to classical music at a very high 125 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,040 level. Very high level of exposure. 126 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:05,440 I, I started playing violin when I was 2, but I, I resisted, you 127 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:09,520 know, didn't, really didn't find it a passion for it, as I think 128 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,440 is very common amongst kids. And I was much more into 129 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,800 skateboarding and, and just hanging out with friends and, 130 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,960 and being, I guess, for lack of a better word, a, a typical 131 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,480 American kid in St. Louis, MO, you know, So, and, 132 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:25,960 and I, I'm, I'm referencing the fact that I, I didn't speak 133 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:27,800 Japanese. I didn't really feel culturally 134 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:29,760 Japanese or Japanese American even. 135 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,720 This is kind of a, another topic that we, we talk about is 136 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,159 identity and what we relate to. And then I started playing 137 00:08:37,159 --> 00:08:40,120 Western classical flute. So middle school, I was 138 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,600 wondering, 'cause I know you drumming and I know you playing 139 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,000 flute, but it was flute. First flute first. 140 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,240 Although around the same time there was a Japanese taiko 141 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:55,000 drumming workshop in Saint Louis and I did start playing taiko 142 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,840 drums at that point. I don't talk about it as much 143 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,920 because it was very as just like a after school activity, you 144 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,040 know, recreational activity for kids. 145 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:08,960 I didn't learn about the actual history and the context and and 146 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,840 proper techniques until much later when I moved to Japan. 147 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,800 But clearly it planted a seed. It definitely planted a seed. 148 00:09:27,510 --> 00:09:32,990 When did your immersion in Japan and in Japanese traditions take 149 00:09:32,990 --> 00:09:34,350 hold? I went to Manhattan School of 150 00:09:34,350 --> 00:09:39,470 Music, graduated in 97. I believe I was in the same 151 00:09:39,470 --> 00:09:43,910 class as folks like Jason Moran and Eric Lewis and Stefan Harris 152 00:09:43,910 --> 00:09:45,950 and Eric Harland was a year below. 153 00:09:45,950 --> 00:09:49,720 So kind of an incredible time to be at Manhattan School music. 154 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:54,160 You play. I was playing at that point 155 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:59,520 primarily jazz, for lack of a word, flute, and I picked up 156 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,280 tenor saxophone as well while at school. 157 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:03,280 And so that was where my focus was. 158 00:10:03,560 --> 00:10:06,360 I wasn't playing taikodrums or any percussion really. 159 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:10,920 I was a a wind player and just focused on Miles Davis and John 160 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:12,560 Coltrane. But then you're getting both the 161 00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:16,720 spirit and the practice of improvisation into your bones at 162 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:18,120 a very high level. Also yes. 163 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,640 Practicing many hours a day, the scales and transcriptions and 164 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,920 doing that whole thing and, and actually something that really 165 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:30,520 affected what happened right after that was for the first 166 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,680 time perhaps in my life, I realized how music could be 167 00:10:33,680 --> 00:10:36,880 related and associated to heritage and culture. 168 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:39,800 Because my parents playing Western classical music, they 169 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:41,720 weren't, they're not from Europe, right? 170 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,800 But that's what they did. I grew up doing the same. 171 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,560 And then I started playing black American jazz music. 172 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,960 And so in, I was pretty late in the, I was late high school when 173 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,080 I first started playing jazz and, and it was just another 174 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,880 form of music to study, you know, do the scales, learn the 175 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:02,000 transcriptions, learn the tunes. And it was because of my time in 176 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,600 man, high school music. I started to see the connection 177 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:09,040 with black American culture and wondering if I had that 178 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,960 connection with any other form of music in my life. 179 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,200 That's what really prompted me to to look towards Japan. 180 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:20,160 When and how did that happen? So because of the these these 181 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,880 thoughts about about my own heritage and where and not 182 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:28,040 knowing anything about Japan, I did kind of restart playing 183 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,560 taiko drumming, which I left many years before that in New 184 00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:35,600 York City with a local amateur ensemble called Soul Daiko. 185 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:41,920 And then I saw the taiko drumming ensemble Kodo perform 186 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:51,040 at Carnegie Hall. And that really was just earth 187 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,800 shaking for me. It really just seeing the, the, 188 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,680 the performance on stage and the performers and even how they 189 00:11:57,680 --> 00:12:01,760 walked out on stage and how they took this their time and they 190 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,360 set and, and, and very, very performative, very kind of 191 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,760 ritualistic and hitting with such intensity. 192 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,680 And they're singing these songs. I have no idea what they're 193 00:12:11,680 --> 00:12:13,280 singing about. They're wearing these costumes. 194 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,640 I don't know why the significance of the costumes. 195 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,120 And, and I realized I didn't know the significance of the 196 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,600 drums and the flutes and, and it was a huge mystery, but it also 197 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,840 felt somehow very familiar. So when I first encountered you 198 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:31,120 and heard you, you were the first American born musician or 199 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:35,440 person to join the ensemble. And in some ways I guess you 200 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,880 were an ambassador in two different directions. 201 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:44,120 But there's a very deep study and immersion in between those. 202 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:48,760 Even just watching and hearing, I can sense how physical and 203 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:50,880 even how spiritual a practice it is. 204 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:56,040 But I really had no idea of what did it mean to have a two year 205 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,640 apprenticeship. And I guess on a remote island, 206 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,840 yeah. So I saw that group Kodo at, at 207 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,360 Carnegie and I, I went, auditioned, became an 208 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:07,960 apprentice. The apprenticeship is a 2 year 209 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,000 program. The the two year program 210 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,720 involves waking up at 5:00 in the morning, whether it's 211 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,800 winter, dead of winter in the snow or in the summer and 212 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,400 burning hot somewhere in Sodo beginning with a Six Mile run 213 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,160 and then from there eating. You know, we all cook. 214 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:25,640 We take turns cooking for each other. 215 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,520 A lot of stretching and practicing 5 or 6 hours a day, 216 00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:33,320 maybe 5 to 8 hours a day. Not just drumming, but flute 217 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:36,240 playing, singing and dancing. As much dancing as drumming 218 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:40,120 easily. We grew rice, we studied Knoll 219 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:45,640 theatre, Kilgan theatre, tea ceremony, a lot of woodworking. 220 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:50,200 We made our own drumsticks, you know, we, we got this old style 221 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,200 of, of Japanese thought and living and, and practice then 222 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,760 you might experience if you were a kid growing up in Tokyo, you 223 00:13:57,760 --> 00:13:58,680 know. So even for the other 224 00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:02,040 apprentices who are all Japanese, it was in a sense 225 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,680 culture shock, right? And after two very intense years 226 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,400 of this, of this six days a week training, one or two people get 227 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:13,200 accepted out of 10. And I was one of them. 228 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,520 And then so I went from being this American kid in in New York 229 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,160 to being an apprentice for two years on this small island 230 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,360 called Sado. I didn't mention that earlier in 231 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,480 the Niigata Prefecture, which by the way, Sado is historically an 232 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,840 island of exile. So and a lot of old traditional 233 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,800 culture still exists there. And so that's why Kodo chose 234 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,920 that place to, to establish their Kodo village. 235 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:43,240 So two years of living in Japan is is an apprentice and then I 236 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,440 get accepted. The next thing I know, I'm on 237 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,440 stage at Carnegie Hall wearing the Japanese costumes, singing 238 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,080 in Japanese, playing the Japanese drums and and being a 239 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,800 part of that, that whole mysterious world that I'd 240 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:57,680 witnessed a few years before that. 241 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:19,160 Now with Kodo, there was a certain amount of collaboration 242 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:23,080 that happened with musicians from other walks of life, but 243 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:29,040 then at a certain point you re immersed in New York as 244 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:30,760 essentially A collaborator, right? 245 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:35,480 So yes, 2007 I moved back to the States and, and started to 246 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,880 really branch out and I tried working a lot with jazz 247 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:40,840 musicians with a lot of different types of dancers, a 248 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,440 lot of classical musicians started working with the Silk 249 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:47,000 Road Ensemble. You know, just I had a project 250 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,280 with Mongolian musicians once and I went to Mongolia, I'd. 251 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:55,040 I remember hearing you playing a duo with Jason Moran, like the 252 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,320 way after you had been encountered each other in 253 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:01,480 Manhattan School of Music and just piano and taiko drums. 254 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,840 And I remember Jason was as thrilled with the just the sheer 255 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,440 power of those drums as I was as a listener. 256 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,800 When you started working with musicians like Jason again and 257 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,720 started working with a wide range of musicians in New York, 258 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:21,080 how did that experience with Kodo affect how you approach 259 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,160 those encounters? Or how did it change your 260 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:27,360 approach to those encounters? It's an ever evolving process 261 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:33,440 and both when I was with Kodo and after I left Kodo, it's, 262 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,600 it's, it's been shifting quite a bit in terms of what am I trying 263 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,440 to say? How am I trying to say it? 264 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,120 I've studied a lot of traditional Japanese music, but 265 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,360 I'm not a traditional. I don't play traditional music. 266 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:49,000 And, and some people may assume because the instruments that I, 267 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,320 oh, he plays traditional Japanese music, which is not the 268 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:53,000 case. And then so if I don't play 269 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,160 traditional music, then how is the Japanese? 270 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:59,160 So I'm just constantly kind of pulling and pushing my own ideas 271 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,400 and aspects of what I, what I should be doing, what I need to 272 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,400 be doing, what feels right to me, what feels natural to me. 273 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,400 And so whether it's working with Jason or Laurie Anderson or 274 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,640 Yo-yo Ma, it's like, OK, what am I bringing to the table? 275 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:18,720 I've been very touched and moved by Thelonious monks music. 276 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,960 Now we can be stark and thunderous 1 moment and 277 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,280 incredibly tender and delicate the next. 278 00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:29,480 And between the drum and the flute, when you make music, I've 279 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:34,720 been struck by just that range of power to delicacy that's 280 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,040 available to you. Some people ask me because I 281 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,880 play 3 or 4 different types of Japanese flutes and then all 282 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:45,440 these sizes and shapes of Japanese drums and you know, if 283 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,960 especially kids might say, you know, what's your favorite 284 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:49,160 instrument? You've played so many. 285 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,600 And what I usually say is as much as emotions and thoughts 286 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,560 and feelings and experiences that we have, I have different 287 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,320 instruments that express different things in different 288 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:15,920 ways. Having had that path and that 289 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,920 journey in terms of your own lineage, your own identity, 290 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:25,320 whether it's musically, culturally, in 2024 you launched 291 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,840 Bloodlines Interwoven, a multi year project. 292 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,440 That is, you know, in a way you're commissioning music, 293 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:37,720 you're rooting yourself and others in heritage, diaspora 294 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:43,120 storytelling. Let's go back to how that 295 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,480 developed. I remember you were kind enough 296 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,920 to write a piece for Chamber Music Magazine, which I edit 297 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,320 right at the beginning of this. At the end. 298 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:55,680 Of the first end of the first residence. 299 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,360 Kind of a summary, right? Which I remember you talking to 300 00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:02,800 me about gathering people and before you made music there was 301 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:04,560 a map. Mm hmm. 302 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,720 And some push pins. I purchased a map that is 303 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,720 mounted on a on a frame and and I brought it into the gathering 304 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:18,480 and it has pins and I brought in many colors of string and I 305 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:25,800 asked all the musicians to pin to them significant places. 306 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,080 So for example, for me, it was Saint Louis, it was Tokyo, it 307 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,120 was Sado Island, it was New York. 308 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,600 I think those are the four that I that I put in and, and then I 309 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,600 would tie a piece of string between each of these four 310 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,880 locations. And then other people started 311 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,280 doing the same. And of course, I think we all 312 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:45,560 for the most part live in New York. 313 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:49,680 So that was kind of a Nexus. But then we had strings, you 314 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,840 know, stretching all across Europe and Japan and South 315 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:57,160 America, Central America, and it was just a beautiful thing. 316 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,000 And I mean just literally interweaving our our stories. 317 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,760 And in these strings and Jeff Ziegler, I said, so tie them 318 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:05,400 together. So tie the different points 319 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,400 together. And Jeff Ziegler, wonderful 320 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,640 cellist, tied his, but he went around the back of the map, so. 321 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,880 We had, we had all sorts of creative types and, and some 322 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,640 people instead of tying it off and, and snipping off the end, 323 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:20,360 they would tie it off and then let it hang. 324 00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:22,440 And they, they said I like it and how it's, it's kind of 325 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,400 almost like a, a drop of blood maybe or, or something. 326 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:30,160 I remember that first iteration had this week long festival 327 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,840 Tivoli, New York and a beautiful landscape. 328 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:40,720 What did you learn from that, both about your fellow musicians 329 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,840 and also about where you wanted this to go? 330 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,160 We had the, the culminating event was in Tivoli, NY at the 331 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,680 place called Cats Band. And that was after about six 332 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:56,160 months of these gatherings. So the first six months we would 333 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,320 get together, we would share stories and find all these 334 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,040 amazing connections. And, and there was, there was 335 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,360 crying, there was fighting, there was a lot of improvising 336 00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:07,280 and, and people bringing compositions that they they 337 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:08,960 wrote inspired by the conversations. 338 00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:12,600 And I can go into all these anecdotes that happened, really 339 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,600 amazing stories. But that culminated in a week 340 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,640 long residency at Catspan where we kind of refined all the work 341 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,200 that we've been putting together. 342 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:25,160 Part of the festival was nightly artist talks where we would kind 343 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,240 of tell short versions of our stories and perform and talk 344 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,160 about our instruments. And then the three main concerts 345 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,840 Friday, Saturday and Sunday on mainstage that were premiering 346 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,000 the works that were everyone brought in. 347 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,760 Well, tell me one of those stories. 348 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,960 I remember Jen Hsu was telling, talking about her parents from 349 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,160 East Timor and Taiwan. Yeah. 350 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:51,040 Wonderful singer composer whose many instruments are too many to 351 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,920 tell right now. Yes, and Jen mentioned the 352 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:59,240 Indonesian government invading East Timor and the genocide that 353 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,000 happened there. And this is within, you know, 354 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,600 minutes of her talking about how her parents met. 355 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,400 You know, it went from very personal stories of, you know, 356 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,400 mom was this and dad was this. And then we zoomed way out into 357 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,520 the Indonesian, the genocide that took place and then went 358 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,720 back to Jen growing up. And you know, and so it was just 359 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,480 immediately that was, I remember, that was day one and 360 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:26,200 it was already almost, I was like, oh, this is what we're in 361 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:43,360 for. I'm sure half or most of the 362 00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:47,760 musicians in the room are never more than two steps away from a 363 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:52,320 genocide or something close expulsion in their own. 364 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,920 Lineage another thing and and this is not the second story. 365 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,280 This is aside because of your comment, I was talking to some 366 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,600 other people about this Bloodlines project and one 367 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:07,200 musician who's white said he was really interested in learning 368 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,720 about and, and hopefully taking this opportunity to learn about. 369 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,840 He has family in the South who were most likely slave owners 370 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,240 and family in Austria who are most likely Nazis. 371 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:26,120 And so it's that side of the story as well, right? 372 00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:34,040 And the fact that he wanted to acknowledge and, and, you know, 373 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,200 kind of process it 'cause that's also trauma in, in, in many 374 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,520 ways, generational trauma and reckon with it, I found 375 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,840 incredibly brave and, and, and beautiful. 376 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,320 And so Japan, I'm, it's a beautiful country for many 377 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,040 reasons, but it, it was, I, I already mentioned how horrible 378 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,880 and atrocious that the government and the military was 379 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,080 in, in the early part of 20th century. 380 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,080 What's the other story? The other story is I wrote about 381 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,720 it in the article that that you graciously invited me to write. 382 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:05,320 But at one point the composer Duyun was talking about her 383 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:11,400 coffin building grandfather and in Shanghai and Alicia Hall 384 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,920 Moran, a wonderful singer, had this very kind of visceral 385 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,120 reaction and, and left the room. I remember and, and, and, and 386 00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:21,000 I've known Alicia very, for a very long time and I, I could 387 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,640 tell she was upset by something. I didn't know what it quite yet. 388 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,280 She came back in while we were improvising as it was quite a 389 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,840 bit later and, and we'd finished doing and telling this 390 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,040 incredible story. By the way, her whole story was 391 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,480 kind of incomprehensible things that she went through in order 392 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,040 to, to get to where she is now. So we were improvising a piece 393 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,800 afterwards after her talk and, and Alicia came back in and, and 394 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,040 Duyen was very excited about the music and said, OK, I'm going to 395 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,280 write a, a song and it's going to be a, a funeral procession 396 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:51,720 and it's going to be about coffins. 397 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,040 And Alicia said, OK, hold on. I'm, I'm going to have to stop 398 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:59,280 you right there. And she has some ancestors who 399 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,240 were enslaved by medical institutions and built when one 400 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,040 of the main tasks was to build coffins. 401 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,400 And so it really, when Duyun brought that up, it, it kind of 402 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,200 hit her in a very kind of visceral way. 403 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,840 And then the Afrimentin Jenshu also fairly recently wrote a 404 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,800 piece where she would carry a a zither as a symbol for her 405 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,720 father's coffin. And so immediately, these three 406 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,400 women from very different geographic and cultural and 407 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,640 musical backgrounds, they were literally in a circle hugging 408 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,720 and, and almost crying and just, you know, just like completely 409 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:38,520 bonded over that this strange connection the the coffin. 410 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,440 Like, what is a coffin and what does it mean? 411 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,120 And what does it mean to different people and different 412 00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:44,160 cultures, Right. And there it was, such a 413 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,240 beautiful, kind of miraculous thing to witness. 414 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,400 Right. And if you had a musician from 415 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,320 New Orleans in that room, there'd be a whole nother 416 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:52,440 dimension, whole nother dimension. 417 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:58,720 So these personal, cultural, musical, aesthetic ingredients 418 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,280 has worked in many directions. I know in some ways you're 419 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:06,680 improvising together, but there are discreet and clear pieces 420 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,120 that emerge too. So I've heard you recently 421 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,360 versions of Bloodlines in New York at National Sawdust at 422 00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:19,160 Joe's Pub. I know not long ago you were 423 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,680 engaged at a Mexican festival. So how, in these couple of 424 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:29,880 years, how has this evolved, both in terms of the music and 425 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,320 the performances? It's a shape shifting project 426 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:39,760 because it started off with it being a festival and then very 427 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:44,080 quickly I was thinking it's not just a festival, it's it is an 428 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,000 ensemble. It's a commissioning project. 429 00:26:46,360 --> 00:26:49,600 Also, it's not an ensemble, but it's many ensembles kind of 430 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,400 existing within itself. It's all of the above. 431 00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:20,920 It's a process, it's an artistic process and it's practice. 432 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:22,960 It's therapy. I'm not sure. 433 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,320 It's a lot of different things and it and, and, and actually 434 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,960 that's something that I'm, I'm still kind of developing. 435 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,280 I'm still like every day. It feels like it's a different 436 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,720 thing and a different beast. As you mentioned, we're 437 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:38,480 developing Part 2 with with a whole new set of people and it's 438 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,440 it's turning into something also kind of very different in a way 439 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,400 from the first year. The first gathering for of this 440 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:50,200 year was at my house was here and this amazing drummer Kweku 441 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,600 Sambri, who I just met. He's amazing jazz drummer, but 442 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,960 also grew up playing jembe and going to Africa, you know, all 443 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,680 through his childhood to study with the masters. 444 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,920 And so he like really deep in the. 445 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,360 Roots and which was very central to this last performance in 446 00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:10,440 Brooklyn. Yes so quick was on his way. 447 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,520 He calls. He's like I'm sorry I'm going to 448 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,800 be a little late. I was in a car accident and he 449 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,200 was 5 minutes from the house. He'd skidded on a wet Rd. 450 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,200 He was not injured. His car eventually was up in 451 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,240 flames. It basically blew up. 452 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,320 And he and some police officers were pulling his bags out. 453 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,280 They saved his jembe. They saved one bag. 454 00:28:32,120 --> 00:28:36,720 He lost one bag that had bells from Ghana and music notation 455 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,840 that he'd written when he's studying as a child, all these 456 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:42,520 rhythms from these great masters. 457 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,320 And when I said, oh, that must have been really painful to, to 458 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,200 lose that, he said, oh, no, it's, it's all in here. 459 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,000 And he pointed to his heart. It's like, no, it's all, it's 460 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,880 all here. I didn't need the paper, you 461 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:54,280 know. And so that was such a, an 462 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,560 amazing approach to it and stance. 463 00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,840 And then and that was the first day. 464 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:05,600 And then after he says that, you actually deal with those things 465 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,400 that were left in his heart. You're literally working with 466 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:10,360 those. Yeah. 467 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,840 Yeah, coming through and then us, the rest of us trying to 468 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,680 absorb the rhythms and the sounds. 469 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:32,320 Now in Knoxville at Big Years, I know that there will be at least 470 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:38,520 three concerts or or a gatherings, each of which will 471 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,560 be different and each of which will happen in a different 472 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,640 setting, physical setting. Introduce us to the cast of 473 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,720 characters that will be in Knoxville. 474 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,280 Yes. So I'll start with the the folks 475 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,080 I just mentioned. Kweku Sombre has been working 476 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,600 with Emmanuel Wilkins for a long time and he just started working 477 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,680 with Charles Lloyd. Faye Victor, singer, 478 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:06,120 storyteller, composer, Shahzad Ismaili, multi instrumentals, 479 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:11,120 bass, drums, electronics, just kind of picks up whatever is 480 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,440 necessary. We have Cyril Baptista, 481 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,360 Brazilian percussionist, played with Paul Simon and yo-yo Ma and 482 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:19,760 on and on and on. John Zorn. 483 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,680 But he's also, I think, equally known as just this lovable, 484 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:29,600 hysterical, amazing person. Maybe one of the most joyous 485 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,520 musicians I've ever encountered yet. 486 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,560 When we're sharing our stories, he was, he went really deep and 487 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,640 he really opened himself up and it was so beautiful to see. 488 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,800 Marika Hughes, I mentioned a cellist from New York City, kind 489 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,520 of straddling the worlds of classical music and and jazz and 490 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,400 Blues and singer-songwriter and someone I've known for a couple 491 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,320 decades. We have Unia. 492 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,360 Eddie Kwan, I already mentioned violinist, singer. 493 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,000 We have a a wind player named Gamin. 494 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,760 Gamin is her name and she plays traditional Korean music, 495 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,880 different wind instruments that are both folk and classical 496 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,440 Korean music. Whereas in Unia is Korean 497 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:26,000 descent, but doesn't really engage overtly with Korean 498 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,800 traditional music. And so even having them, the two 499 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,440 of them together, it's just an interesting dynamic. 500 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:36,520 You know, there's Bundola as her her kind of her stage name and 501 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,120 the instrument she plays is Bundola. 502 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,640 It's it's kind of a, a banjo slash, ukulele slash guitar type 503 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,040 instrument and and a singer, wonderful singer as well. 504 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:50,160 And Sunny Jane, the dole player also, he kind of similar to me. 505 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:55,280 He grew up playing drums, rock, jazz, but then as a young adult 506 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,600 kind of discovered the dole. And the dole being a 2 headed 507 00:31:58,600 --> 00:31:59,880 drum. Thank you from. 508 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:06,040 From India, he's India, Pakistan and he has a a very acclaimed 509 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,400 band called Red Barat, which my understanding is is basically 510 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,520 wedding music. And so the band is like just 511 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:18,520 high energy dance music with horns and and but centered 512 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:30,040 around the dole. So big ears. 513 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,480 This annual event in Knoxville, which at first to me seemed like 514 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:41,320 an unlikely place, has struck me in my visits to the event as its 515 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,840 own bloodlines. Meaning a meeting place for a 516 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,200 lot of musicians to explore where they're coming from and 517 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,760 what they can do together. But also, even for those people 518 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,920 who come as listeners, who follow their own path to why 519 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,200 they're there and why they're interested in that sort of 520 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,600 gathering, how has that environment struck you or 521 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:09,160 affected you? It's a dream, you know, walking 522 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,920 down the street during the festival and, and you might run 523 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:17,280 into Bill Frizzell or or Lori Anderson or Shahzad or, you 524 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,520 know, just walking down the street, which conceivably 525 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,480 happens in New York all the time. 526 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,560 But just to have that concentration of just everybody 527 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,120 around at the same time in, in this concentrated weekend is, is 528 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,400 in, in a sense a dream as well, right? 529 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,040 Besides just being able to hear all these people, it's, it's a 530 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,400 great honor that Ashley decided, you know, that to, to partner 531 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,240 with us. And so we'll be in residency. 532 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:41,320 Yeah. And. 533 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,440 For me, you're also, you're going up and down mostly gay 534 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:50,080 street, but up and down to these beautiful old theaters and other 535 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,040 churches and venues that had their own histories. 536 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:58,600 And now there's this new version of the history that is really, 537 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,600 to a certain extent, about what you're doing with bloodlines, 538 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,760 isn't it? In the conversations, we talked 539 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,480 about perhaps doing something at a museum where it's a public 540 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:08,960 event. It's, it's not ticketed. 541 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,280 So reaching out to different communities in that way, the 542 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,239 idea of maybe doing it in a bus station, which is incredibly 543 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,440 appropriate for this story, which is all about, you know, 544 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,960 immigration and travel and how. And then there are the theaters 545 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,520 and there's, there's small spaces and large spaces and, and 546 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,520 one thing that we've been thinking a lot about is 547 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,480 performing in the round in a way that makes it feel like the 548 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,760 whole audience is, is all in the circle with us, right? 549 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,880 And so we have to really think about how the staging of that 550 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:45,159 and the appropriate venue for that and Big Ears is all in on 551 00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:49,320 how do we make these different configurations work and add 552 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:54,360 meaning to the performance by the venue, the choice of venue, 553 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,360 the layout of the venue. It's another form of 554 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:11,960 collaboration, I see. My experience at Big Ears is, 555 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:16,720 well, most of the time you are sitting in a theater or another 556 00:35:16,720 --> 00:35:20,920 space, but we do have this feeling that, hey, you're in on 557 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,520 this on a deeper level. So I wanted to ask you, that 558 00:35:24,720 --> 00:35:30,720 experience you had on that island changed you very much 559 00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:33,600 emotionally, physically, spiritually, and not just in 560 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,800 terms of your musical aesthetic. Now a couple of years into this 561 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:42,680 project, Bloodlines, has it changed you in ways beyond the 562 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,320 music making? Profoundly, I, I feel like the, 563 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,440 you know, we all have different points in our lives. 564 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,400 And as I said earlier, I, I went from being American to being 565 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:58,600 basically Japanese. I so when someone asks about my 566 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,920 entity, I think I'm, I identify as both Japanese and American 567 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,640 and not necessarily even Japanese American, which is kind 568 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,120 of a, a different. It's, it's its own thing. 569 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,800 People whose, whose relatives or were in the internment camps 570 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,680 and, and multi generation, you know, Japanese descent in 571 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,240 America. And so it, it really helped 572 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:20,520 transform how I thought about myself. 573 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,520 This project. A lot of the the artists are old 574 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,680 friends and many of them are brand new to me. 575 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,520 I think Matt Garrison last year put it really nice. 576 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,920 Matt Garrison was part of Bloodlines last year and he the 577 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:35,160 bassist. Wonderful. 578 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,080 Son of the bassist Jimmy Garrison. 579 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,080 Correct. Which by the way, while we are 580 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,880 in Tivoli, NY, last year for the Bloodlines festival, Jimmy 581 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,840 Garrison's bass was delivered from Jack D Jeanette's house to 582 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,400 the venue and Matt played it on stage during the festival. 583 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:55,040 And so that Matt was talking about last year's Bloodlines and 584 00:36:55,040 --> 00:37:02,040 said it it's a molecular repositioning of how hearing 585 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,720 each other's stories and then kind of seeing yourself through 586 00:37:05,720 --> 00:37:09,920 other eyes and seeing each other through different lenses has 587 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,040 been profound. Alicia Hallmoran, who I 588 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:16,880 mentioned earlier, processes her own culture and her own history 589 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:21,080 and her own ancestry and has been doing that work for many 590 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:25,760 years, found that now she it's, it's a little bit more of a 591 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,160 global perspective. It kind of pulled back the lens 592 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,680 in in many ways for her and and I found that to be also true for 593 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:54,400 myself. Now, remember the first time we 594 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,640 talked about this and when you were kind enough to write about 595 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:03,160 it For me, your last paragraph landed on There is something 596 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,800 about proximity to smoke and fire. 597 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:11,520 And then the last time I heard Bloodlines, there was a piece of 598 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,560 yours that I believe draws on that for its title. 599 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,280 So what is it about proximity to smoke and fire? 600 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,120 And how does this drift in and out of what you're doing? 601 00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:24,680 One thing we've been talking about from the beginning is my 602 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,880 partner UDA, who's a, she's a trained chef in Kaiseki style of 603 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,840 Japanese cuisine. She's helped me develop a lot of 604 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,160 these ideas and concepts. And, and one thing we thought 605 00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:37,400 think about besides music and rhythm and history and, and 606 00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:41,760 sound and religion is food, food culture. 607 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:46,000 And we talk about the idea of having a, a bloodlines cookbook 608 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,960 because it's such a significant part of all of our stories. 609 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,600 And UDA cooked for the ensemble last time when we're in 610 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,440 residency together and cooking based on many recipes that each 611 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:57,840 person brought in. Right. 612 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,320 And so that's, that's one form of smoke and fire. 613 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:02,600 All of the instruments that we play. 614 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,320 I mean, maybe I'm being a little bit too broad, but are made with 615 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:09,200 smoke and fire, ink brush, you know, the calligraphy from 616 00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:12,440 Japanese and various traditions. The ink is coming from ink, 617 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,520 smoke and fire and, and, and water. 618 00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:19,320 It's very elemental in many ways, and I wrote that Article 2 619 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:24,440 years ago, but it was when Queku came to my house for that first 620 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:29,600 time and showed me video of his car and there was a cloud of 621 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,400 black smoke going 30 feet in the air, pitch black smoke. 622 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,960 It was those sort of connections that was really profound to me. 623 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,680 It's like, and the fact that he had just experienced that and 624 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:46,000 was then 20 minutes later sitting in my home eating lunch 625 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,680 with us and breaking bread, he was like, he came and we ate 626 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,240 together and drank together and started sharing stories. 627 00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:58,080 And it's the work of almost of not to be too dramatic about it, 628 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:04,560 but life and death, right? And, and what are we trying to 629 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,480 say and leave behind? Like these are the conversations 630 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,840 we have in our music. What are we forging, you know, 631 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,480 in our in our. In our artistry and in our 632 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,080 careers and what are we trying to leave behind? 633 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:18,920 I have a 12 year old daughter and I think about that all the 634 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:20,280 time. What is? 635 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,000 What am I leaving for her? And also, what do we want to 636 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,680 celebrate? And what are we celebrating? 637 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,240 Yeah. Karu sitting here with you, 638 00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:32,240 talking about this, in a room with the map and the connected 639 00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:35,560 threads behind you, surrounded by instruments from a few 640 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,960 different continents. All this takes even clearer 641 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,080 shape and resonance for me. Thank you so much for this. 642 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,680 Look forward to Knoxville. Yes, thank you, Larry. 643 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:59,040 It's been a pleasure. You can catch bloodlines 644 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:03,360 interwoven at Biggers 2026. For remaining tickets and daily 645 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,600 schedules, visit biggersfestival.org. 646 00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:08,920 Big Ears Conversations about Music is a production of Big 647 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,320 Ears Festival. I'm your host Sarah Gilletti. 648 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:13,680 The show was produced by Matt Marowitz. 649 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,480 This episode was edited by Alex Arif. 650 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,520 Ashley Capps is the executive and artistic director of Big 651 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,560 Ears Festival. Thanks for listening. 652 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,880 And until next time, keep those ears wide open.