1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,400 There's four key metrics when it comes to meta ads that will 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,240 really determine if you're seeing success on. 3 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:11,160 You did an amazing job, you know, in 45 minutes explaining 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:13,480 meta ads. One thing was really interesting 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,480 was that bidding process. All they're creative is 6 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,600 basically saying the same thing and talking to the one person 7 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:20,480 Meta. So Instagram, Facebook, one of 8 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,920 their biggest priorities other than getting your money is that 9 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:28,880 they want those using the platform to have an enjoyable 10 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:31,680 experience. The state brands make is that 11 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:33,400 they only run purchase campaigns. 12 00:00:33,480 --> 00:00:37,520 That winner that I spoke about trying to find your centre will 13 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,440 never look like an ad. Just say to Claude, hey this is 14 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,840 a competitors AD library, I want you to monitor this. 15 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,240 You've mentioned some really cool brands off the top there, 16 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,360 you know why are they succeeding? 17 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,320 Is massively favouring paid partnership ads? 18 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:53,120 Yes. I'm the digital director at 19 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,640 Chain Social, so I oversee all of our paid performance clients 20 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:01,960 as well as our email marketing clients as well, and influencer 21 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,319 and paid partnership too. So I've got a few people 22 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:06,520 underneath me. At Chain, our kind of bread and 23 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,840 butter is paid performance, so we run ads on Meta, Google, 24 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,480 Pinterest, TikTok and lately App Lemon as well, which is a 25 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,800 platform to keep an eye out on as well. 26 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:22,000 That's only launched in Australia end of last year, but 27 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:26,080 that's running ads on like all the gaming apps like Candy Crush 28 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,720 and things like that too. Yeah, I've heard about that. 29 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,600 It like I think we're kind of into the podcast now, just FYI. 30 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,440 But I think, yeah, I've heard app lovin has been around for 31 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,680 like years or not years, maybe a couple of years where it's just 32 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:43,440 sort of bubbling away in the background. 33 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,800 And perhaps it's one of those things that is getting more 34 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,640 traction in the US as as opposed to Australia. 35 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,600 But yeah, you're still thinking it's something just to keep a 36 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:56,440 bit of an eye on. Yeah, we're seeing kind of mixed 37 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,560 at the moment. I think what I struggle with the 38 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,480 most as a platform is that you can't, there's no like real 39 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,440 targeting involved. So you can't say like target 40 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,560 these people or don't target like exclude these people. 41 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,600 It's really kind of putting it in their hands like they, they 42 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,680 have different campaigns where they say target prospecting and 43 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,120 you know, and all these, but like, how are you even 44 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,160 determining who? I don't know is a bit of grey 45 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:27,880 area where you're unsure of what exclusions are in place. 46 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:32,040 We use third party reporting platforms like Triple L though, 47 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:37,920 So just to make that the platforms driving incremental 48 00:02:37,920 --> 00:02:42,760 revenue for our clients. And yeah, it's got mixed. 49 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,120 Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's shit. 50 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,200 It's getting better, I would say. 51 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:52,480 But yeah, it's one that we're just playing with for a couple 52 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,560 of our clients. Yeah, yeah. 53 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,280 You gotta test and and, you know, experiment with some of 54 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:58,720 those. So I haven't actually introduced 55 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,720 you yet, but Adele Elliott, Digital digital director at the 56 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,680 chain at Chain Social not. It's chain social, yeah. 57 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,600 Yeah, yeah. Nice how these podcasts come 58 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,000 about obviously work with you, you know, a few years back. 59 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:16,040 But then I, I ran into you at the social Summit and I thought 60 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,960 you did an amazing job, you know, in 45 minutes explaining 61 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:24,280 meta rads, what's working, what's best practise right now. 62 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,320 And one thing was really interesting was that bidding 63 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,720 process and, but you touched on creative as well. 64 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,960 So I really wanted to just get you on today and, and, you know, 65 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,360 explore that a little bit with our, with our audience. 66 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:38,000 So maybe can you just give us like a, an above a broadview in 67 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,040 terms of what are the best E commerce brands doing well at 68 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:42,440 the moment? You've mentioned some really 69 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,360 cool brands off the top there. You know, why are they 70 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,840 succeeding and perhaps some others aren't when it comes to 71 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,680 meta? They know their numbers is what 72 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:56,160 I'm probably going to say, and they know that there's four key 73 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,840 metrics when it comes to meta ads that will really determine 74 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:03,320 if you're seeing success or not. And that is your average order 75 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,960 value, your CPM, so how much it's costing for you to reach 76 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,560 1000 people. Your click through rate, your 77 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,040 link click through rate. That's a metric that a lot of 78 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:15,680 people don't focus on. Then your conversion rate as 79 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:17,519 well. And so you're knowing what they 80 00:04:17,519 --> 00:04:21,240 are and what they need to be for you to hit your goals. 81 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,240 You know, sometimes you hear people say, oh, meta ads didn't 82 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,600 work for me. I know that I can go in and I 83 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,400 can look at those 4 metrics and it'll be one of those that has 84 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,120 let them down as to why meta ads didn't work for them. 85 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,280 A lot of the time it's either a click through rate or conversion 86 00:04:35,280 --> 00:04:38,240 rate. And so you know, they might have 87 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,680 a really low link click through rate. 88 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,840 And that tells us that you're creative is shit. 89 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,040 You know, people are getting served your ads, but no one is 90 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,160 clicking through them. And you know, that is the one of 91 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,960 the biggest goals of your meta ads is to actually stop people 92 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,360 scrolling and you get people to click through to your website or 93 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,440 lead form, whatever it might be. And so when that's really low, 94 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,080 that's when your meta ads aren't going to perform. 95 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,880 Or you might have a really high click through rate, then your 96 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,400 conversion rate is really low. And that's when you need to ask 97 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,480 the question, are you gaslighting people? 98 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:14,080 Are your ads the right things? Does your website need work? 99 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,320 Are you sending them to the right landing page? 100 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:20,840 All these different questions. So yeah, they're like knowing 101 00:05:20,840 --> 00:05:24,000 your numbers and knowing which ones you need to improve on is 102 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,000 what the good brands are doing that are seeing success on Meta. 103 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,720 OK, nice. And so when you're looking at 104 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,720 the the meta analytics, are you looking at that in terms of sort 105 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,200 of because there's three different, I'm just, I'm not an 106 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,480 meta ads expert by any means, which is why I've got you on. 107 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,440 But there's sort of camp campaign, like there's 3 levels 108 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:44,640 to it, right? So what levels do you, do you 109 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,880 check at the campaign level or is it the the ad creative level? 110 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,680 Like what in terms of those metrics, where should they be 111 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,120 looking? I'd probably more say the ad set 112 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,400 level is where you want to be. Yeah, looking at definitely not 113 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,680 individual ads. I think another mistake that a 114 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,080 lot of brands are now making on Meta is they're being too 115 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,400 reactive and what ads they're turning off. 116 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,800 I think you would have heard me mention when I was talking at 117 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:10,760 the Social Summit is that especially Meta's advantage plus 118 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:14,080 campaigns, they're kind of like a netball team. 119 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,400 And that you'll find that, yeah, just say you've got, as an 120 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:19,280 example, you've got 7 ads running. 121 00:06:19,280 --> 00:06:23,400 I guarantee anyone who's running their own ads listening knows 122 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,040 that you're running this ad set and that there's probably one ad 123 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,800 that's getting like 70% of your spend, which is really like can 124 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,280 be really frustrating. And you know, you might say that 125 00:06:33,280 --> 00:06:36,600 this ad that's getting 70% of your spend isn't getting the 126 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,560 cheapest cost per purchases and that you might have another ad 127 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:43,520 down below that's getting like, you know, $5 cost per purchase, 128 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:44,960 but it's not getting the same spend. 129 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:46,640 And you're like, what are you doing Meta? 130 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,560 And the reason why I'm doing that is it's a netball analogy. 131 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,400 And that these campaigns work in that it's not just one ad that's 132 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,920 going to convert them. They likely have to see multiple 133 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:57,720 ads. The ads that's getting all the 134 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,480 spend would be the ad that is getting that first touch point. 135 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:03,240 It's stopping them from scrolling. 136 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,600 It's getting them to click through your website. 137 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,120 So you'll generally find that this ad with the with the most 138 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,080 spend has a strong click through rate. 139 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,760 It's getting people across to your website and then you might 140 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,840 have other ads in that ad set that are then being retargeted 141 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,400 to them and they're clicking through those and purchasing 142 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:19,960 through those. The reason why it's a netball 143 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,000 analogy is that one that's getting all the spend. 144 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,360 It's like centre right, it's getting the ball first, it's 145 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,160 then passing the ball to another ad who's then scoring. 146 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,120 They wouldn't have scored if the centre didn't get them the ball 147 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,520 in the 1st place. So the biggest mistake brands 148 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,760 make is or you know, people running ads is that they'll turn 149 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,920 off that high spender. Don't do that because then you 150 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:43,160 know, you, you need to think of your ad set as a team and that, 151 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,680 you know, if you're turning off the high spender, those lower 152 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,200 spenders, they won't work any more efficiently. 153 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:50,880 Probably. It'll all just kind of crumble 154 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:55,400 down like a House of Cards. So your aim Netta is find new 155 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,760 centres, find high spending ads. That's your aim. 156 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,800 That's the that's now our purpose in life when we're ads 157 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:06,000 is, will this be a high spending ad because the current centre 158 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,120 needs to be benched. So we need to. 159 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,120 And also, how do you know if your ad is fatiguing? 160 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,400 Then what's the what's the telltale signs of that? 161 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,200 Yeah. So you'll generally say your ad 162 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:21,360 set as a whole will start to increase in cost per purchase. 163 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,800 And that, yeah, that centre, a high spender is getting lower 164 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,240 click through rates, it's getting higher frequencies. 165 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,160 So it's it's starting to fatigue. 166 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,120 So that's why you need to be introducing new ads into your ad 167 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,159 set and hoping to find a new centre. 168 00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:37,559 OK. And so I mean, this question is 169 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:42,200 probably a depends question, but like how much new creative 170 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,520 should you be rolling through per month? 171 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:46,880 I mean, I guess it's pretty individual, but I'll I'll ask it 172 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,880 anyway. Yeah it depends on budget but I 173 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,120 would say people don't like hearing this answer. 174 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:56,320 But at a minimum per ad set, 2 new ads a week. 175 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:59,160 OK. Yeah, that's a lot. 176 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,760 Yeah, yeah, but you don't make the rules right. 177 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:03,520 You just got to play. But. 178 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:08,200 That's what, yeah, that's what, that's what you need to to, you 179 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:13,560 know, and it's also knowing that not all of them will be centres 180 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,160 are frustrating. It's probably going to be like, 181 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,680 I reckon like 20% are going to be winners or probably even 182 00:09:19,680 --> 00:09:21,480 less, like 10 percent, 10 to 20%. 183 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,320 But when you do find that winner, that's when you really 184 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,440 start to see success. OK. 185 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:28,640 Yeah, nice. So we've touched on that. 186 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,120 The best E commerce businesses are the ones that are doing 187 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,000 well, know their numbers. Is there anything else that you 188 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,400 can kind of before we move on to the next question or is that the 189 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,160 main kind of thing? To to take away from it, yeah, 190 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,400 knowing your numbers so that you're not going blind and so 191 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,800 that you know, you know which because you could have awesome 192 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,240 creative and an awesome strategy, but if your website's 193 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:51,360 a piece of crap and you're not willing to improve it, like, you 194 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,440 know, it doesn't have good UX. So you, you've got a really low 195 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,440 conversion rate, then, you know, you tinkering and doing anything 196 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,440 more and ads, you know, isn't going to change anything you 197 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:05,000 need to work on your website. Or if your ads are doing really 198 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,680 well, but you've got a really low average order value, then 199 00:10:07,680 --> 00:10:10,560 yeah, you're never going to see a strong row ads or return on ad 200 00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:13,120 spend because your IOV is so low. 201 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,960 So yeah, it is really important to know those those metrics. 202 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,360 And then also what I kind of alluded to, your good brands 203 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,640 that are seeing success are investing in that creative and 204 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:27,200 are becoming just a creative pumping out creative kind of 205 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,880 engine as well. Yeah, Yeah, perfect. 206 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,080 I wanted, I was going to touch on the the metas bidding process 207 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,400 because you you talked to that really well. 208 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,520 But now we're talking creative, let's just let's kind of go go 209 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:40,440 with that. So what do you think the biggest 210 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:45,000 creative mistake most brands are making or most brands that come 211 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,280 to you obviously wanting change socials help you obviously start 212 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,040 to see some commonalities around their creative. 213 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,280 What what are some tips around you know, getting that quantity 214 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,080 of creative but also the quality right? 215 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:59,080 Yeah. So I think the biggest mistake 216 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:02,120 that brands make is that all they're creative is basically 217 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:06,120 saying the same thing and talking to the one person you 218 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:07,360 know. I think like what's that saying 219 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:11,560 if you try and talk to all, you talk to none and definitely the 220 00:11:11,560 --> 00:11:14,280 case when it comes to meta ads. So if you're just being really 221 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:18,360 generic with your messaging and you're not really talking to 222 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,640 someone in particular or all your ads are just talking about 223 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:26,440 the same benefit or the same kind of USP, that's when you see 224 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,440 like they're probably what brands are like the mistake that 225 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,440 they're making at the moment. And I think we're going to talk 226 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:36,360 about it, but we're really leaning into persona targeting. 227 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,000 So really niching into the different personas that a 228 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,840 different product or brand would be wanting to talk to and then 229 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,400 going one step further from that and then going into what we call 230 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:52,400 like micro niche motivators. So, yeah, because one person 231 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,840 might really care about the, you know, just I'll, I'll pull like 232 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,640 a skin care brand. Yeah, Yeah, right. 233 00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:03,840 You're a skin care brand. One person will really care 234 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,160 about the ingredients and that they're clean and that, you 235 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,840 know, they're ethically sourced and that the packaging is 236 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:12,680 recycled. That's what they care about. 237 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,160 Another person won't give two hoots about that. 238 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,200 They care about the results. How quickly will they start to 239 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,000 see the results of their skin care? 240 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,760 You know, they want to see before and afters. 241 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,600 And then another person, it's more like they need to know, has 242 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:30,160 it got kind of authority in market? 243 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,400 Are other people using this? Has it got lots of reviews? 244 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,560 Is anyone of influence using this that recommends it? 245 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:39,640 Because, you know, they just care that what they're using is 246 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,040 on trend. And so you really want to make 247 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,640 sure that you're talking to all those different people and then 248 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,560 you can kind of go really niche down into those different 249 00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:50,720 motivators to that. I mean, it's like the person who 250 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:54,360 cares about the results. You can like really hone in and 251 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,760 just saying like, you know, if you're waking up with like, you 252 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,480 know, if you're dealing with like dull skin or you can like 253 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,360 niche down further. Like, you know, you see a photo 254 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,240 of yourself and that's not what you think you look like and can 255 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:12,000 really tap into that problem and solution and really tap into 256 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:16,400 those micro problems or issues or feelings that they might 257 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,760 have. So when they get served an ad, 258 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:23,480 it resonates with them so much more than just a fluffy skin 259 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,400 care. Like, you know, the nice product 260 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,840 photo you're like by asking care, like you need a real 261 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,400 nation to the why and why your product is suited for all the 262 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,800 different people out there. What you'll get from that is 263 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,720 incremental reach because if you're only talking to about 1. 264 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,080 So if just say you're only talking about sustainability, 265 00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:45,440 meta scans your ads and knows what you're saying and will only 266 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,480 send that ad to those who care about sustainability. 267 00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:52,040 Whereas if you're only talking about results, that will then 268 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,160 metal then reach people who are more about results. 269 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,600 So you really want to make sure that you're talking to all so 270 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:00,120 that you're reaching more people. 271 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,600 If you're only saying if you're, if you're a skin care product 272 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:04,640 only talk about sustainability, you're probably only going to be 273 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,840 hitting like 10% of your potential audience pool really 274 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:09,960 branching out from from that point of view. 275 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:12,760 OK. And then do you leave, leave the 276 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:17,120 audience targeting to Meta initially with all of all those 277 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,720 different creatives, obviously different audiences for them? 278 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,600 Is that again the nuance around that? 279 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,000 Do you just leave that fairly open and let Meta sort of, I 280 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:26,960 don't know, is it like advantage plus campaigns? 281 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,680 Is that, yeah, is that, is that something that you kind of let 282 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,800 them do it or do you really try and tie it down and try and find 283 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,120 the audience for the same message? 284 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,480 It depends on budget. So clients that have bigger 285 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,520 budgets, we split the different personas into different ad sets. 286 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,280 For the clients who have smaller budgets and we don't want to 287 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,400 spread ourselves too thin, we'll group them together and then you 288 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:53,240 can then identify which personas are kind of resonating more and 289 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:55,360 then you might then split them out. 290 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,120 So yeah, there's no like right or wrong way with it as well. 291 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,560 Even if you have one advantage sales campaign with one ad set 292 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,160 with all like, you know, three different personas in it, that's 293 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:09,040 still a good starting point too. And again, it means that Meta 294 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,680 will reach even in that one ad set, more people. 295 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,720 I've got brands who come to me and they'll have an advantage 296 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:18,560 sales campaign running with no, like they'll just be excluding 297 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,440 their existing customers, but no other targeting or anything. 298 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:25,600 But they still, they like hit a ceiling and that they, they try 299 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,080 and scale it, but then all it does is increase their 300 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,000 frequency. So they're not reaching any new 301 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,640 people. It's just kind of like hit a 302 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:32,720 ceiling. And the reason why they've hit a 303 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,280 ceiling is because they're creatives are just talking to 304 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,360 one group of people. And so meta won't expand it. 305 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,760 Whereas if they talk about multiple things, that's when 306 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,040 they'll start to see that incremental reach even in that 307 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,480 one ad set to. Fantastic. 308 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:50,200 That makes so much sense. Yeah, explaining very well. 309 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:50,920 Thank. You. 310 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,320 In terms of that, that bidding process, that was one of the 311 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,320 most interesting parts of your talk. 312 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,320 I, I've never quite kind of understood how that bidding 313 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,600 process works for some people that are sort of similar to me. 314 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,400 Can you explain that bidding process and make it a bit 315 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,040 clearer for us? Yeah. 316 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:08,600 And I think like you're definitely not alone. 317 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,440 No one really like understands that like how the bidding 318 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:14,520 process works. And I'm a firm believer that 319 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,600 once you understand it, things start to just click a little bit 320 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,360 more. So this is one of our slides on 321 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,560 our master class that we do. Can you say that? 322 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:24,280 Yeah, yeah. Got that? 323 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,320 This is basically the back end formula of how Meta's bidding 324 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,640 works. What some people don't actually 325 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,720 know is that Meta is an auction platform, as is Google, 326 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,160 Pinterest, TikTok. They're all auction platforms. 327 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,880 So you're bidding against other advertisers to have your ad 328 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,200 shown. A lot of people do know that, 329 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,200 but they don't know how you win that bid. 330 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,920 The kind of misconception that a lot of people have is that it 331 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,960 just comes down to budget, but that is definitely not the case. 332 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:57,600 So this is Mehta's formula, I guess, of how the bidding works. 333 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,360 So you'll see like on the right, that's your auction winner, 334 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,599 sorry, but how that auction winner is determined is by three 335 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:07,839 kind of factors. One is your auction bid. 336 00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:09,280 So that's how much money you have. 337 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:13,800 But that honestly is like 10 to 20% of this formula. 338 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,960 The two that are really important is your estimated 339 00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:21,800 action rate. So what that means is to say 340 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:23,440 you're running a purchase campaign. 341 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,319 Meta will estimate what the likelihood of someone purchasing 342 00:17:27,319 --> 00:17:31,480 in the next 7 days is. And so if that is a high 343 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,920 estimated action rate, then you're going to go up in that 344 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,080 bidding like, you know, you're going to have cheaper bids 345 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,640 because you're become like an auction winner. 346 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,360 And then the second part is that user value, the user experience. 347 00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:44,720 They kind of work really well together. 348 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,560 Because what you need to remember is that Meta, so 349 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,960 Instagram, Facebook, one of their biggest priorities other 350 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,640 than getting your money is that they want those using the 351 00:17:55,640 --> 00:18:01,880 platform to have an enjoyable experience that, you know, it's, 352 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,680 it's an experience that is relevant to them as well. 353 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,640 So they're getting served ads for products or services that 354 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,600 they're not interested in that'll negatively impact their 355 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:17,720 experience on the platform. So one kind of little diagram 356 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:22,480 that I have here is a like another kind of mistake that I 357 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,160 guess that some people make is that they'll only be running 358 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:30,200 purchase campaigns, right? And so he kind of say that that 359 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,520 pink circle is people in the audience or like in your 360 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:36,960 audience or cohort who are currently in the market to 361 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,480 purchase. And what that means is that Meta 362 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,320 has picked up some sort of signal that they are looking to 363 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,760 buy your product or service. So whether they've gone on a 364 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,440 competitor's website or not that Meta would ever admit this, they 365 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,120 might have had a conversation with friends and Meta's 366 00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:54,960 listening. So you know that, you know, 367 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,920 they've Googled something or they've done something to give 368 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,920 Meta a signal that this is what they're looking to purchase. 369 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,600 And that's why you'll find that, you know, just say like you'll, 370 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,320 you'll start to go on and look at a lamp, right? 371 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,720 You're like, I'm going to look for like, I need to buy a new 372 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,360 lamp for my lounge room. So you go look for lamps and 373 00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:13,960 then suddenly you go on Instagram and your whole feed 374 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,920 are ads for lamps. It's because Meadow is like you 375 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,440 are right now in the market to purchase lamps. 376 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,320 This is you have a high estimated action rate. 377 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:24,760 We know that this is a value for you. 378 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,880 So we are going to be serving you ads for lamps because that 379 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,080 we that have picked up signals that that is of importance for 380 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,440 you. If they weren't looking for 381 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,040 lamps, your ads would not be shown for them. 382 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,760 So a kind of mistake that a lot of brands make is that they only 383 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,160 run purchase campaigns. Yes, you're going to be getting 384 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,160 strong return because people are in market, but what if they 385 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,480 didn't even know that they needed a lamp, right, Or you're 386 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,200 a product they don't even know that they need right now. 387 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:56,360 If you then have different objectives and I'd still I'd 388 00:19:56,360 --> 00:19:59,520 always recommend that you have like generally stick to the 389 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,960 sales objective if you're an acom brand, but you can have 390 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,560 like a way lower intent objective like conversion 391 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:08,960 events. Rather than optimising for 392 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,800 purchases, you can then optimise for add to carts or even a view 393 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,160 content, which is kind of like a landing page view. 394 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,240 Yeah, that means that suddenly Meadow is bidding for an 395 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,720 estimated. Landing page view or an 396 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:26,120 estimated add to cart, which then opens it up to a whole new 397 00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:29,720 audience of people. And so, you know, just say I 398 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:34,160 have shown no intent that I'm in the market for an lamp, but I am 399 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,640 renovating my home. Or I might have looked at rugs 400 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,400 or I might have looked at, you know, something kind of similar. 401 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,160 And then Meta's got an ad, like an ad to cart campaign for the 402 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,000 lamp. It might show that to me being 403 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,520 like, hey, like you likely like, you know, have you thought about 404 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:49,920 lamps? And then I'll be like, Oh my 405 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,800 God, I do need a lamp. And then I click through this ad 406 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,720 to cart campaign. But then that's also the signal 407 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,960 because I've been clicked through to this lamp page. 408 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:02,920 I'm now in the pink circle because now I'm in to the market 409 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:04,560 for lamps. Met has picked up a signal that 410 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,520 I am looking to purchase. So it's really just important to 411 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,160 kind of note when it comes to that auction, that bidding 412 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:13,200 process is really understanding that especially if you are a 413 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:18,600 product that is new to market or is quite unique, you need to 414 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,520 really think outside the box of just a purchase campaign to 415 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,720 otherwise you're going to have like be limited to that pink 416 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,280 circle and you want to introduce new people to that pink circle 417 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:30,040 as well. And then that user value as 418 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,160 well. So kind of difference between 419 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,480 the estimated action rate and the user value. 420 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,480 The user value is your creative, is this creative, the type of 421 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,520 creative that the user resonates with as well. 422 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,760 So is it found a content? Is it a beautiful editorial 423 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,120 image? Is it an infographic? 424 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,720 What kind of behaviour has Meta picked up that they resonate 425 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,800 with a lot? Like is it humour? 426 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,480 Like, you know, they, they're, they like humorous content and 427 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:58,840 that Met has picked up that your ad is humorous. 428 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,440 All those different kind of things play a part to that user 429 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,520 value. If you've got a really strong 430 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,800 estimated action rate, you got a really strong user value and you 431 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,240 got decent, you know, or like, and you're kind of budget there 432 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,760 as well, then you're likely to win the auction. 433 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,120 You're going to have lower CPMS, which is, again, that kind of 434 00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:22,400 one of those metrics I said at the start does massively impact 435 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,920 pure results. And yeah, he's going to have 436 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,600 much better performance on meta overall. 437 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,760 But that's basically how that meta bidding process works. 438 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,720 And it's just really good to understand it. 439 00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:34,760 So you're like, aha. And then you can kind of know, 440 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,240 OK, like I won't just run purchase campaigns. 441 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,680 I'm also going to look at other ways to kind of introduce people 442 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,760 into that funnel. Yeah, exactly. 443 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,160 Hope you're enjoying this episode of E Commerce Australia. 444 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,320 I wanted to quickly introduce you to one of our current 445 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,160 clients, Dyer from Socal and Co, an amazing family business based 446 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:53,720 in the West. Here's what they had to say 447 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,120 about working with Remarkable Digital for their SEO. 448 00:22:56,360 --> 00:22:59,440 The story I want to tell you guys about is one that you've 449 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,000 probably heard before and that's probably because it is lived 450 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,080 experience. A couple years ago we decided we 451 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,720 wanted to increase our organic performance, what that looked 452 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,200 like for us as a small family owned business. 453 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,160 We were looking to work with an agency and I'm sure you can 454 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,560 guess how the rest of this story goes, but it was not a very good 455 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,040 experience. Those are the type of 456 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,800 experiences that end up leaving a sour taste in your mouth. 457 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:25,640 We swore off agencies for a couple years. 458 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:32,440 Flash forward to last year, we met Ryan at a event We already 459 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,280 knew of him as my dad, who is the owner of the business, 460 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,880 listens to his podcast. Eventually we did obviously end 461 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:43,080 up in conversations with Ryan about working with remarkable 462 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,040 Ryan. Pat and the rest of the team are 463 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,520 amazing, but also we had built experience by having 464 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,200 conversations with other agencies. 465 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,600 We started building a checklist what we were and went looking 466 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,720 for. Trust and honesty are obviously 467 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,000 really foundational and really important, but it's very easy to 468 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,400 say that you were trustworthy and honest and incredibly hard 469 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,360 for agencies to show. Genuine expertise and interest 470 00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:11,840 in growth are really important. Pat and Ryan are always learning 471 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,400 more things about SEO. They keep on top of it so we 472 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,800 don't have to. And I think most importantly for 473 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,400 us, it was their genuine investment in our growth. 474 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,160 And every day I notice more and more how their work is making 475 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:25,960 such a difference in our business. 476 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,840 Since joining with Remarkable, we've seen a steady, very, very 477 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,720 healthy and incredibly impressive growth in our organic 478 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,880 performance. We see a very bright future of 479 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,200 relying less on paid ads, which is so important for us. 480 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,880 I certainly recommend Remarkable to everyone, but particularly if 481 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,240 you are a small business that has been scorned before. 482 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,840 I hope you know that by going with Remarkable you will be in 483 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,160 safe hands. Some great words I'm sure many 484 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,800 of you listening can relate to having a poor experience. 485 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:58,200 If you're not being found in ChatGPT, Gemini AI or 486 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,720 traditional SEO search, hit the free order button below and and 487 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,520 let's have a let's have a conversation back to the show. 488 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,520 Interesting that you mentioned about kind of newer brands as 489 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,480 well. If you're a newer brand, you 490 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,600 know, one of the the temptations might be to just to run purchase 491 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,440 campaigns and and try and find conversions as quickly as you 492 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,400 can. Looking at that slide that you 493 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,440 just sent in, that's obviously not going to be that helpful. 494 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,280 You're going to need set user experience and the user value 495 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,840 and start to warm that audience up and find some people that 496 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:34,440 might be slightly higher up the, the conversion higher, lower 497 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,240 where you know what I mean? So up the up the, the, the 498 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,120 traditional funnel that we talk about. 499 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,320 Yeah. And not not quite as ready to 500 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,720 purchase just yet, but in market still and and get some more 501 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,280 traffic that way. And what I generally, I think 502 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,280 like I would have seen on that slide, my little tip as well 503 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,640 when you're running those non purchase campaigns is to be 504 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,240 really harsh with your exclusions. 505 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,840 So exclude anyone who's been on your website lately, obviously 506 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,480 exclude any existing customers so that you've got brand new 507 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,720 people coming to your website as well. 508 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,000 Don't put, I think another mistake that a lot of brands 509 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,640 make is that they put really harsh exclusions in their 510 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,120 Advantage Plus sales campaign. But like that netball analogy I 511 00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:17,600 spoke of before, you want your Advantage sales campaign paying 512 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,600 to have the multiple touch points in there. 513 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:20,720 That's when it works really well. 514 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,360 So you don't want to be excluding any recent website 515 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,600 traffic. You want to have that kind of 516 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:26,920 working as that multiple touch point. 517 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:28,480 That's when you're going to see really strong results. 518 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,400 But if you have that. Makes sense here. 519 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,520 Yeah, if you have like a add to cart initiate, check out even a 520 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,560 view content campaign concurrently work like running 521 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,440 alongside it with harsh exclusions. 522 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,400 It's just a little kind of and tiny budget as well. 523 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,640 You know, it can be like 20% of your budget just kind of going, 524 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,560 but it's almost like a a tap just pouring people into that 525 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,880 purchase campaign as well. Because like I said, as soon as 526 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,840 they've gone onto your website, that's the signal that Meta then 527 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,680 needs to be like, oh, they are looking to purchase. 528 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,560 So then they'll get served ads in that purchase campaign. 529 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,960 OK, awesome. A lot of detail there. 530 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,520 Love it. And the last question I have is 531 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,960 just around creating one of the things again that come up in 532 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,240 your presentation was, you know, the the best brands or the ones 533 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,360 that are doing best on Meta make creative that don't look like 534 00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:16,800 ads. I think I'm not sure whether it 535 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,080 was you, I'm not sure what you'll take credit if you did 536 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,800 say this, but if if it, if it looks like an ad, you've already 537 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,520 lost. That was someone said, I can't 538 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,520 remember who that was. Obviously that is true. 539 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,200 But how do we make, and you've sort of touched on it a little 540 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,920 bit, but you know, how do we make creative that doesn't look 541 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,960 like it. Yeah, I actually I think that 542 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,720 was another speaker and it's true, but you should definitely 543 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,200 still in your mix have some creative that looks like ads as 544 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,120 well. I would actually it's a mix of 545 00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:47,160 both. That winner that I spoke about 546 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:51,800 trying to find your centre will never look like an ad, right. 547 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,920 But those secondary touch points where it's like, you know, like 548 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,640 free shipping or something that trying or like reviews and 549 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,720 things like that, that should look like an ad because they're, 550 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,160 you know, you're trying to like they're being worked as 551 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,560 remarketing and it's, you know, trying to address any purchase 552 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,320 barriers and convince them to buy. 553 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,080 But comes to. So it is important to have a 554 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,240 couple of those in the mix, but definitely put most of your 555 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,520 energy into ads that don't look like ads. 100%. 556 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,080 What I would generally say a mistake that people make is that 557 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,440 they feel as if everyone talks about the first 3 seconds or I 558 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:31,640 think it's even like less now. And that that is everything when 559 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,520 it comes to your ads, which is true. 560 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,800 Like you've got, well, you're like a second to stop people 561 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,840 from scrolling. You do not need to have your 562 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,600 product or your brand in that first 3 seconds. 563 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,000 And that's a mistake that a lot of people, you know, they have 564 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,800 to like straight away, like try and get into that cell mode. 565 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,600 Whereas I'll be using that as the hook of addressing, you 566 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:56,040 know, those niche motivators or problems that they might have 567 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,360 and doing it that way, leaning in on trends that you're kind of 568 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:04,960 seeing work as well and obviously having like low Fi 569 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,200 content. So, you know, like I was doing a 570 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,880 concert with her brand, I think it was last week and they 571 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,160 weren't producing anywhere near enough creative. 572 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,920 And I was like, you know, you know, and like, all right, I'll, 573 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,960 I'll reach out to a videographer. 574 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:18,920 I was like, absolutely not. Get your phone out. 575 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:23,040 Like think less like you can like, you know, like if it if, 576 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,640 like it's if you get a videographer in place and it's 577 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,240 all polished and like, that won't work. 578 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,080 So, you know, yeah, like you don't want it to look like an 579 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,040 ad, You want it to feel native on the platform. 580 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,840 Also, I think the biggest thing is that your creative should be 581 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,480 reels first. That is what Meadow is pushing. 582 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,640 So optimise it. So in terms of size, think of it 583 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:51,680 as a real, that in the safe zone of a real and that you know so 584 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,680 that it can then be cropped Foursquare, but reels first is 585 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,280 what you really want to be pushing. 586 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,560 I think another, what I would say Meta is massively favouring 587 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,040 this year that we have made a non negotiable for our clients 588 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,800 is paid partnership ads as well. And so that's working with 589 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,320 creators or even like it doesn't have to be a creator like some 590 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,680 of our clients will run them with the founders profile. 591 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,200 Even for chain, I created an Instagram account which I'm now 592 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,880 actually actively using, but I created it for the purpose for 593 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:25,960 chain to run paid partnership ads. 594 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,080 So it's, you know, chain social with ads with Adele. 595 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,080 OK. Because Meta is massively 596 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:38,400 favouring that type of content. Also, it feels less like an ad 597 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,040 because most of the time it'll actually be served. 598 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,080 It won't say chain social, it'll just say ads with Adele. 599 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,800 And so it will just make it look as if they've come across my 600 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:49,840 content and that it's not actually a brand. 601 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,520 And then the call to action kind of pops up at the end of like, 602 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,880 you know, shop now, we'll learn more, whatever that might be. 603 00:30:54,880 --> 00:31:00,000 So there's a few ways to make your ads not look like an ad. 604 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,880 I think it yeah, it doesn't need to be polished. 605 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,440 If you kind of pick up what a lot of like, you know, 606 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,880 Instagrams, Reels are looking like in the audio and things 607 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,640 like that, tapping into that. And do not feel as if you need 608 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,280 to just shout about like, you know, salesy, salesy, salesy 609 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,400 really kind of again, you want it to be relatable to who you're 610 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,160 trying to target and that they kind of get hooked in and that 611 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,880 they watch it. So it's kind of add that user 612 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,200 value that we spoke about. Yeah. 613 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:30,560 OK. Yeah, nice. 614 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,360 I've got a couple of questions off the back of that. 615 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:36,040 So there has been, I have heard it over the years that you take 616 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,200 your best performing organic and then run that as an ad. 617 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,440 Is that something that you recommend? 618 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,920 Does that no longer work? Is there some merit in that, but 619 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:44,880 some nuance? What? 620 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,120 What's your sort of? It's definitely worth trying if 621 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,640 you have something that works really well organically. 100% 622 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,880 give it a go. It's not guaranteed, sometimes 623 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:58,240 it doesn't. It also like, I think, you know, 624 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,840 we're going into organic territory, which I've definitely 625 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,480 niched into paid and it's been a hot minute since I've done any 626 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:07,880 organic. I think like, you know, we've 627 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,400 got some clients who are organic teamwork with it's like, I just 628 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,920 want to go viral, but then you go viral and then you're hitting 629 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,640 an international market or people like, you know, like, oh, 630 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,640 cool, you went viral for a recipe, but you're a skin care 631 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,800 brand. Like just because something 632 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,040 works, you need to find like, I think if it something 633 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,040 organically worked really well, not in terms of reach, but in 634 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,800 terms of conversions, get that as an ad. 635 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,080 So like, you know, if you posted, you know, a TikTok or a 636 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:38,320 reel and your sales went nuts from that, absolutely get that 637 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,440 built as an ad instantly. But if you're like, Oh, my God, 638 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,160 like this real is TikTok, like, you know, it's got a million, 639 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,520 but you haven't noticed revenue growth from it. 640 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,680 I probably wouldn't be too quick to run it as an ad because, 641 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,280 yeah, it might have, you know, got people watching it. 642 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,920 But if they're not converting from that organically, they 643 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,680 probably won't convert from it as an AD either. 644 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,760 OK, Yeah, that makes sense. Talk to me about the Facebook ad 645 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,520 library. Like you could pretty much spy 646 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,880 on all your competitors as part of the research phase. 647 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,400 Is that something that you would recommend looking at 648 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,720 competitors, bigger brands, similar spaces, what's what's 649 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,360 working? And then, you know, is it, is it 650 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,160 as simple as looking at how long their ads have been running for 651 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,440 to kind of gather whether you think that that's winning 652 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,680 creative or not or what is there any, any strategies or tips you 653 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:28,120 can give us around the ad library? 654 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,520 So definitely become familiar with the Facebook ad library and 655 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:37,400 actually using AI alongside it. So you can OK use a reporting 656 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:41,280 platform called Motion. It is expensive though, but that 657 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,720 like we basically give motion the different ad libraries that 658 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,480 we want it to monitor. But you can actually just get 659 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,280 Claude, you know, if you've got a competitor, just say to 660 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,960 Claude, hey, this is a competitors ad library. 661 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,840 I want you to and monitor this and you know, every week send me 662 00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,800 an update of what they've introduced. 663 00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:03,120 You can also get Claude or whatever AI platform you're 664 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,240 using to say like, you know, what are their like? 665 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,480 What are the core USPS that they're promoting? 666 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,520 What landing page are they directing to? 667 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,880 What's their split for video? You can ask all these different 668 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,920 questions and get AI analyse it for you as well. 669 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,080 You know, even saying like, you know, what gaps is it possibly 670 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,639 are they not missing that I can tap into when actually going 671 00:34:23,639 --> 00:34:26,000 into Facebook ad library? Like you said, it is in 672 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,480 chronological order. So it's like, you know, the most 673 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,679 recent ads that they've added in like will appear first. 674 00:34:30,679 --> 00:34:33,560 So if you do scroll to the very bottom, if their ad account has 675 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,679 been running well, you would assume that the ads that have 676 00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:39,080 been running the longest are they're high performing. 677 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:40,840 Most of the time you'll find that the ads that have been 678 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,320 running the longest are some sort of retiring catalogue. 679 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:47,520 But look at that and then take inspiration from there. 680 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,360 I do always say don't copy your competitors. 681 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,600 It's just boring. But you know, you can kind of, 682 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:56,480 you know, OK, they've got a lot of paid partnership ads running 683 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,560 or they've got a lot of founder content or they have a lot of 684 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,720 reviews or whatever it might be. And you can kind of take that 685 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,400 and be like, I'm not, you know, got a lot of their ads. 686 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,600 Yeah, talk about reviews. And I'm not talking about that. 687 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,640 I'm going to try create some review ads and and things like 688 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:12,600 that. They don't have any statics 689 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:14,080 running. They're all video or they're 690 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,360 only running statics, no video. And you can kind of, yeah, take 691 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,200 that as a learning and work out how you want to then be like, do 692 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,960 you fill in that gap or do you be like, is there a reason why 693 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,080 they're not running statics? And these are kind of questions 694 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,280 that you ask yourself. I also encourage you to use it. 695 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,640 If there's another brand that's not a competitor, but a brand 696 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:40,120 that you feel as if your brand has a similar tone of voice as a 697 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,480 lot of the time we'll ask our clients been like, you know, 698 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,800 what are other brands that you, I think you're like similar to 699 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,480 in regards to tone of voice So that we can, when we're writing 700 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,000 their ads and stuff, we can really tap into. 701 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,920 Or if you're a celebrity, what celebrity would your brand be? 702 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,560 So we can kind of really start to get to know that tone of 703 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,680 voice because that way you can kind of tap into those brands 704 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,640 like how do they talk? What are their captions, You 705 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,200 know, like and kind of draw inspiration there as well? 706 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:10,720 OK. Yeah, fantastic. 707 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,400 I got more questions off the back of that. 708 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,680 So, so like do you have like a sort of what works well in terms 709 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,680 of how many statics versus video or is it just again down to sort 710 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,640 of testing and creative and and the individual brands? 711 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,400 It's individual, unfortunately, I think like I always say to 712 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,200 brands, as much as it kills them, there's no one size fits 713 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,680 all black. If someone's telling you, hey, 714 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,320 here's a one size fits all strategy runaway. 715 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,400 But it is just kind of like, you know, get testing and learning 716 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,400 what that ratio is for your brand. 717 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,600 You definitely want to have a mix out there. 718 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:50,680 I generally normally say that it's like 70% video and then, 719 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,200 you know, 20% static, 10% gifts and stuff like that. 720 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,320 And you can kind of play around that way. 721 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,520 But there is, yeah, no one size fits all. 722 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:03,280 We've got some brands where the statics just perform really 723 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,240 well, like fun day suites for example. 724 00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:08,360 Like yes, we've got a whole bunch of UGC, but they've got 725 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,560 really fun branding and you know, they're lollies like 726 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,840 sometimes that you know, you know, and it's just this really 727 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,800 fun and like gift for animation or static and it works really 728 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,800 strong and it people click through because it looks 729 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:25,000 delicious, you know, so there is no one size fits all, like even 730 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:30,160 a lot for fashion. A strong editorial photo works 731 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,000 just as well as a video. But yes, it's kind of finding 732 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,440 out what's got that highest click through rate is generally 733 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,520 what you'd be looking at. And yeah, what what tends to be 734 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,760 your winner as well, like you've you've said? 735 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,760 Bringing it back to the numbers, I like that it's like, yeah, 736 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,600 you've done this before. What about last question I've 737 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,840 got what about like Black Friday and you know, obviously it's a 738 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,360 it's a really key period for a lot of E com retailers. 739 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,080 What where do you see? How do you advise your brands to 740 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,800 get ready for Black Friday and, and how should they be using it? 741 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,400 Obviously, you know, I would imagine you, you might be able 742 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,040 to tell me, but you know, your averages and the spend, these 743 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,120 are up a lot. So it's going to cost you that 744 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,240 bidding auction is going to cost you a lot more. 745 00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:14,760 So what what's the conversation you're going to be having for 746 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,600 your clients around this Black Friday and and how to sort of 747 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,640 make the most success out of it? Yeah, I can't believe what I met 748 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,840 Black Friday already. I got paid last year rolls 749 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,280 around so quickly every year. Last year chain we actually had 750 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,760 a 2 day event on Black Friday. Getting brands like it's huge. 751 00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:34,160 Yeah. It's mistake brands make when it 752 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,760 comes to Black Friday as they just start the prep in November. 753 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,880 Like, no, no, no, The brands who have the biggest months in 754 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,760 November are starting that in August. 755 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,360 And that is where again, you know, you're really kind of 756 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,000 you're happy for in September and October to have a whole 757 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,120 chunk of your budget knowing you're not going to get a strong 758 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,960 return because you're introducing new customers into 759 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,920 your world. I guess knowing that they might 760 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:02,840 not convert, but you know, you're building up your email 761 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,200 database, you're getting people to your site so that they, you 762 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,920 know, you're front of mind. Very rarely will someone like 763 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,080 when it comes to Black Friday, it's noisy as hell. 764 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,240 Everyone's shouting at you to buy, buy, buy. 765 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,360 Very rarely are you making a purchase decision. 766 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,320 Then you've already made it before being like, I'm going to 767 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,280 come back in Black Friday and I'm going to like. 768 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,560 And so you want to be in that consideration phase long before 769 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,080 Black Friday hits and that Black Friday just becomes the 770 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,160 conversion event and the trigger to to purchase. 771 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,960 It should also really be used for new customer acquisition. 772 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,120 Definitely. And I'm like also like we'll 773 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,880 work with clients been like, are you going to do Black Friday or 774 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:42,960 not? They're like, I feel like I have 775 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,840 to, but absolutely not. Do you don't have to if you 776 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,560 don't want to discount brand or you don't need to discount, 777 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,080 don't do it. But you do need to then know 778 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,800 like, you know, if we've got a brand is like, I'm not running 779 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,920 Black Friday ads, but they expect to have a huge November 780 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:01,960 and they've got no new collection launches or nothing 781 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,680 to talk about in November. We're like, we're going to pull 782 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:06,840 spend back and it's probably going to be a little bit quiet 783 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,880 because you're competing, you're essentially competing for share 784 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:14,440 of wallet, right? People only have a set amount 785 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,400 that they can spend. Very rarely they're going to 786 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:20,160 spend on something full price when everything around them else 787 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,960 is discounted. So it's just kind of accepting 788 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:24,960 that or we work with our clients and being like. 789 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,240 Have a new collection drop or something that you can still be 790 00:40:29,240 --> 00:40:32,240 talking about and that you know, it could be a limited collection 791 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:33,760 that they have to buy then and there. 792 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,160 They can't wait to there. But yeah, it should really be 793 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,280 new customer acquisition or like moving dead stock and stuff like 794 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,960 that as well. I do want to say, though, people 795 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,160 in Black Friday, they expect the biggest offers. 796 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,640 You know, nothing kills me more than when we're working with a 797 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:52,680 client. They're like, oh, yeah, our 798 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:54,720 Black Friday offer is like a gift with purchase. 799 00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:58,880 You're like, this is not well, Jamel, people wait and they hold 800 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:00,920 out for like, I wonder what they're going to do for Black 801 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:02,280 Friday. And then it's like, you know, 802 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:06,240 here's a gift. Like here's a, you know. 10% off 803 00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:06,920 or something? Yeah, or. 804 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,400 Like makeup bag with every purchase you're like, that's not 805 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:14,680 it. Like, you know, like people 806 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:18,280 expect big offers. I think also another mistake 807 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,520 that a lot of brands make for Black Fridays, they've become 808 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:24,120 really reactive to with what those are doing around them. 809 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,760 Like shit, our competitors doing 30% off, we now need to do 30% 810 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:29,960 off. So really kind of thinking. 811 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:34,200 And again, it's snowing. Your numbers though, don't eat 812 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,800 into your margins too much so that it just FS you up down the 813 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,680 track. I've had clients as well, right? 814 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:45,080 I remember 1 where 2 horror stories for Black Friday. 815 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,840 We had a client hit. I want to hit $1,000,000. 816 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:49,720 We're like, all right, we did the numbers. 817 00:41:49,720 --> 00:41:51,680 We're like, Yep, you want to make $1,000,000? 818 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:56,280 We did it operationally. She was not set up for that. 819 00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:02,400 Like still sending orders of Jan like detrimental. 820 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,640 And then she had no stock. Like it was just, I was like, 821 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,520 you gave us a number. We hit it like you need to 822 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,360 operationally. So you need to know like know 823 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,520 what your goals are and make sure that you're operationally 824 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,120 set up as well. Or like, you know, we had a 825 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,440 client where we absolutely like killed it for them, but then 826 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,720 they didn't have any new stock coming until February. 827 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,480 And it's like, well, what do we do for all of December and 828 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,200 January? We've got nothing to push. 829 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,840 Yeah. So, yeah, it's not again because 830 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:34,680 I have no numbers and be operationally set up as well and 831 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:39,480 make sure that yeah, really kind of use Black Friday to get new 832 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,160 customers and start that process of getting people introduced to 833 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,520 your brand. Invest in that it from like 834 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:48,120 September. OK. 835 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,120 Yeah, perfect. Love it. 836 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:52,760 Thank you. What brands have you been 837 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:57,120 working with lately? Like who does chain partner with 838 00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:58,960 or work with? Yeah. 839 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,960 So we kind of have quite a few ways that we work with different 840 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,720 brands. Our kind of niche, which I do 841 00:43:06,720 --> 00:43:10,160 recommend most agencies or freelancers have, is that, you 842 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,760 know, you kind of own a niche so that you become the experts in 843 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:14,440 that. So if a chain, we're fashion, 844 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,960 beauty, lifestyle for all the brands we work with. 845 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,600 So we're an all female team as well. 846 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:24,920 There's about 22 of us, 2023 of us all female. 847 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:29,480 And we always kind of have the philosophy like or like is this 848 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,280 a brand that we would purchase from? 849 00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:36,360 Because then we kind of think that our our advantage compared 850 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,560 to some other agencies is that we are the consumer. 851 00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,280 We can really tap into that consumer psyche as well. 852 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:43,960 So yeah, fashion, beauty, lifestyle is our bread and 853 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:48,800 butter. Sorry, my dog has decided that 854 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,280 this is his interest. Yeah. 855 00:43:53,240 --> 00:43:56,400 So some of the brands that we're currently working with and have 856 00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,280 worked with for years. So we've got Nala, which is a 857 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,360 pretty big. Well, they're still, they're 858 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:06,320 only like 3 years old, but they have just in the market by storm 859 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,160 and have seen insane growth. So they're probably a brand that 860 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,880 I've worked really closely with since I've started at chain 861 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:17,680 three years ago and they've just grown like enormously. 862 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,600 It's actually mind blowing their growth. 863 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:26,280 You're a former Witner Fun day suites. 864 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:30,440 So like, well, like, yeah, quite, quite a mix there as 865 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:35,680 well. We do Mecca's email marketing in 866 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,240 over in the UK for them. We work with some B to B brands 867 00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:43,960 too, so some merchandising brands we've got like Australian 868 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,600 Beauty School as well. We're currently working with 869 00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:52,400 Brazilian Butterfly on a bit of a relaunch, very kind of, you 870 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,520 know, you know, there they used to be huge like 20 years ago and 871 00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,600 they're kind of back in. So we're trying to get there, 872 00:44:59,960 --> 00:45:03,360 get them out there again. So that's been a fun one. 873 00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:09,480 But yeah, there's a big vast of different businesses that we are 874 00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,120 working with. And then I also do like a lot of 875 00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,320 consulting too, personally still through chain. 876 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:20,160 But for the smaller brands that are either running their ads 877 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,760 internally, but just want to sense check what they're doing 878 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,480 or if they just can't afford like agency retainers just yet. 879 00:45:27,720 --> 00:45:29,840 We work from like a consulting point of view. 880 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,560 We even have been working with the small, like some smaller 881 00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,680 brands on what we call like a Meta build project. 882 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:41,160 So because, you know, a lot of people want to run ads on Meta, 883 00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:42,800 but they don't even know where to start. 884 00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,960 And so we just kind of work out what their budgets are, what 885 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,520 their kind of goals are. We'll build everything for them 886 00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,200 and have like, you know, 20 ads ready to go build and then pass 887 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,840 in the keys. And, you know, so that it's that 888 00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:00,160 sometimes for so many brands, it's just getting started, which 889 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,720 is so, yeah. And is that like a, is that like 890 00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:07,120 a project sort of basis or like a one off kind of thing? 891 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:08,640 Yeah. One off Jack. 892 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:12,280 So and then some like, you know, we either set that up for them 893 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,880 and then they can then just kind of tap into consults when they 894 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,640 need just being like, this is looking good, what do I do now 895 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:21,600 or help results have dwindled. What should I do? 896 00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:24,960 So yeah, just kind of having someone in your pocket, which 897 00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:28,040 yeah. And also like that's kind of 898 00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,680 like we, we want it. We want our kind of skills and 899 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:36,000 our access of what we get as an agency to not just be limited to 900 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,240 the big brands out there, but also to the smaller brands there 901 00:46:40,240 --> 00:46:42,600 too. Yes, but on and obviously boot 902 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,160 camps you've just come back from one of those so you know you do 903 00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,520 them. So the best thing is probably to 904 00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:51,920 give chain social or I'll put your all your contact details in 905 00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,360 the show notes rather than people trying to write them 906 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,760 down. But you also have a new podcast 907 00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,200 coming out too soon. Do we do we give that a do we 908 00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:01,840 give that a plug? What's what are we gonna call 909 00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:02,680 that? Really. 910 00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:04,120 That's gonna be called the chain pod. 911 00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:08,360 So Shelby and I have been running meta master classes and 912 00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:12,240 other events as well like we do. Yeah, like full four day boot 913 00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:15,880 camps. Shelby even has agency boot 914 00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:20,040 camps, other agencies to come along with and everyone always. 915 00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,400 So Shelby, she's the founder of chain. 916 00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:26,320 She's a force to be reckoned with. 917 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:30,480 But when anyone who's in a room with Shelby and I, we've got got 918 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:35,480 this banter that we always have and you know how our brains work 919 00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,320 together. And it's like, he doesn't need 920 00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:41,400 to create a podcast. Like, like we could just listen 921 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,680 to the two of you just talk rubbish, not rubbish, but like 922 00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:46,800 strategy and things like that throughout. 923 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,680 So I said to, yeah, finally I said to shelves, let's just do 924 00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:52,920 it. So yeah, the chain pod. 925 00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:58,240 And yeah, the idea is that, you know, whether you're a founder, 926 00:47:58,240 --> 00:48:01,800 marketer, even another agency, you can be really lonely and 927 00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,280 isolating out there as well. Like, you know, if you run, if 928 00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:06,280 you're a founder, running your own ads, like who do you sense 929 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,640 check that with? How do you know what you're 930 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:13,000 doing is still best practise? Like Meta in particular changes 931 00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:17,360 weekly and it can be so overwhelming to keep up. 932 00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,560 Like I used to freelance as well and I so I know what it's like. 933 00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:24,120 And we just want to be that little, you know, person on your 934 00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,400 shoulder or person in your pocket that makes sure that 935 00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:29,680 you're up to date with what's working and what the bigger 936 00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:34,720 brands are doing or not doing and really giving actually 937 00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:39,960 tangible tips and strategies that you can use yourself, not 938 00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,720 just fluff. And, you know, So yeah, we're 939 00:48:43,720 --> 00:48:46,720 launching that at the end of May, which is really exciting, 940 00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:50,000 locked in a few really exciting guest speakers too, so. 941 00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:52,480 Yeah, awesome. Well, good luck with that. 942 00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,040 I know I can speak from experience. 943 00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:57,040 There's a lot of work, but yeah, it's really good when you start 944 00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:01,000 to, you know, hear from your audience and listeners and, and 945 00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:02,920 they're getting a lot out of it, which I'm sure they will. 946 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,040 Well, thanks for all your insights and wisdom. 947 00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,120 It's been great to to chat again. 948 00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:13,080 You're doing you're also doing TikTok work, boot camps, 949 00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:14,400 workshops as well. Yeah. 950 00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:16,760 Yeah, we've branched out. Like, yeah, we've been running 951 00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:18,880 TikTok ads for our clients for years now. 952 00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,360 We've always just kind of done our Meta master classes, but a 953 00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,000 lot of people are like, oh, like what do I do for TikTok? 954 00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,600 So yeah, we've listened and we're going to be doing our 955 00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:32,800 first ever TikTok master class, I think at Chatty in June, mid 956 00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,520 June, I think June 18th. Don't quote me on that, but I'm 957 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:37,720 pretty sure that's it. It's a very special day, that 958 00:49:37,720 --> 00:49:39,080 day. And is that your birthday? 959 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,480 My birthday. Yeah, exactly. 960 00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:47,160 I have to come along. About TikTok, so yeah, that'll 961 00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:49,480 be good. Yeah, awesome. 962 00:49:49,720 --> 00:49:51,360 That to different states as well. 963 00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:52,880 Yeah, yeah. Nice. 964 00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,600 Yeah, I'll put all your contact details in the show notes as 965 00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:58,280 well as the podcast when it's live. 966 00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:01,480 But the chain, The chain. Chain pod. 967 00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,520 Chain pod. Follow us, follow Chain Social 968 00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,160 on Instagram and then I'm sure you got it. 969 00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:09,320 Yeah, perfect. Well, good luck with the 970 00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:11,600 podcast. Thank you for yeah, being so 971 00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:15,800 open with your information. You do share a lot of good stuff 972 00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,720 on Instagram as well. So yeah, give Adele a follow and 973 00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:20,400 she won't. She won't steer you wrong. 974 00:50:20,720 --> 00:50:22,640 Thanks, Ryan. Thank you. 975 00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:24,280 See ya all. Right. 976 00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:26,760 That was good. Thank you for.