Right, right. We've got, we've warmed up now
you see. Right guys?
We've got coffee in front of us. We've got mugs of coffee.
Cheers, guys. Cheers.
Let's give breakfast. Podcast take two.
There we go. Right.
I guess you know what to do. Clap us in.
Welcome to the Whiskey Stories podcast.
For me to add anyone to the the portfolio of what I import, they
really have to be additive. They have to they have to have
something different. We don't want to just import the
same stuff with different labels.
Like sometimes we can see a product like 99 and one from
living souls. Yeah, yeah, we, we knew that
that was going to be instantly. So I, we didn't have a
conversation about that. The first time I came to
Scotland. I, I, I called up my my current
and favorite wife, Melissa and only wife if we're folks who
listen and I thought you have to come here.
It's it's incredibly amazing. Welcome along to Whiskey Stories
podcast, myself, Graeme Cogar. We are back in the athletic arm,
back in Diggers. But Angus, we're not where we
usually are. We really have gone up in the
world because we are sitting at the well in the bar.
Absolutely. Yeah.
We're in the main body of the Kirk, as we are.
We're actually at the bar. We're not sandwich between the
bar and the giant style. No, we're, we're underneath the
bar. We're not underneath the bar
even. We're we're sitting in because,
and that's because Diggers is crap and no one turns up.
Yeah, we've got the place to our side, right?
Good luck. Kev's around the corners a bit.
Chuck a bottle at you. But we are.
No, it's, I mean, I don't know if we can officially call this a
lock in. If anyone from the licensing
board is listening, it's we are. We did check.
Everything's very. Licensed.
We haven't broken in, we haven't stayed the night, we haven't
slept in. It isn't 3 o't o'clock in the
morning or anything. It's actually 10:00 in the
morning. It is, but when we turned up
this morning or when I turned up this morning, there was a lock
on the. Door a lock Yeah, exactly.
We had to knock a specific way and get ourselves in the door.
Please don't do that if you do say WSP 15, you'll get a 15%
discount when you come in the morning, it's on your coffee.
But no, we're, we're here. It's because today we are off to
the Independent Spirits Festival down in Leith.
Which I could not be more excited about.
I'm really. I've, I mean, last year Ross
occasionally over this podcast, he was there, he spoken, can I
go in terms about how good this festival was and looking at the
I didn't see the line up for last year, but I've seen the
line up for this year and I'm really, really excited.
Absolutely. I think it was actually a one
off last year. What I was told was basically
someone said you need to do that again.
If you don't do it again, I'm going to do it or I'll get
somebody else to do it because it's such a popular run.
It's a purely independent bottler, spirits, independent
bottler, whiskey festival. So only independent bottlers.
They're really looking forward to it, but and.
As you can see from the sunshine coming in, we've got a fantastic
day. Cracking day for spending the
whole day inside. Drinking, but we've a year ago
this morning, I guess. Yes, we were having breakfast
with the gentleman who's joined us today, Howard Sax.
Howard, how are you? I'm doing fantastic, fantastic.
Great to great to have you here. Great to see you now.
A year ago just now, I guess this weekend was our Dormac
trip, which is mental because the the fact that 12 months ago
I know it it. It seems like it was about two
weeks ago. It was great.
And yeah, and we were sitting there with Phil and Simon on the
Friday night in the Dormac Castle Hotel.
We just recorded our first episode with Phil and Simon
where they brought out so much risky for us down in their
little in their. It's a seller room that we had.
Yeah, bro, all these drams, we'd had a chat.
Then they said up the stairs, we'll get some dinner.
And we're sitting having dinner. And Phil kind of said, I hope
you don't mind, but we're going to ask this guy to come and join
us. His name's Howard.
He's come all the way from the States.
So Howard went and sat down and we were like, hi, Howard, nice
to meet you. Yeah, great.
And then we asked you, what do you do?
So tell everybody, Howard, who are you and what do you do?
So I'm Howard Sachs. I'm the founder of an import
company, Sachs Dynamic Operations.
I'm I've been just a massive fan of Scotch whiskey and I started
the company to bring more great Scotch into the US.
We're a national importer. I import for Hollywood
distillery, Annandale Distillery.
I love some independent bottlers.
So we're we're the importer for Lady, the Glen, Living Souls,
the whiskey broker brands and Bartels we we import for as well
the Highland layered brands. Nice.
So yeah, because that's that's the crazy thing about this
morning and that's why we managed to all hook up again, is
the fact that like this time last year.
So we met you, Phil, Phil invited you onto the table,
which was great. We sat there.
We had some really, really the pizzas up at the northern
castle. Oh absolutely fantastic.
And then you know, I had a few drams, had a good night.
Then the next day we were just, oh there's that Howard guy at
breakfast when we sat and had breakfast together as well.
So literally a year to the day at this time probably we were
sitting enjoying a nice breakfast at Dorner Castle
Hotel. And here we are now a year on
Diggers and you've not stayed in Scotland for the year, You've
been waiting in the States and come back again.
So you've been here, How long have you been in Scotland for
this trip? About two weeks I was, I was
here last week and then the week before and I'll stay for the
festival because it, it's just the independent Spirits Festival
is an incredible place with so many great brands, so many great
brands, so much energy in the room.
It seems like everyone from around the world that is into
independent whiskey is here. Because you went to this
festival. Last year I did go yeah, yeah.
So some of our suppliers were in the, the film independent
spirits or I should say series, the four part series,
independent series that I think is, is really how to educate
people globally about, about what's so special about
independent. Bottlers Well, that's the thing,
because the story behind this festival was effectively
basically, now the names have completely gone away from me,
but there was a, there was a, a docu series or document movie
done by independent bottlers, independent bottling of Scotch
and a lot of familiar faces in that throughout the, the people
that we've spoken to and met and, and some big names in the
industry as well. And I think they did their they
did the launch last year of this.
And then at the back of it, they just had a sort of festival at
the same time. And like I say, I think that was
always just going to be that was the launch.
That was just it. And then basically people said,
by the way, this is really, really, really, really good.
Yes, we need to be doing it again.
Yeah. And basically here we are a year
on and we've got the we've got the, the festival down at Leith
today, which I'm really excited. But now it's like what Angus was
saying earlier as well. I think it was Greg Urquhart and
a few other guys I've spoken to have just said that the day was
just incredible. When we talk about whiskey
festivals, we've covered a lot of whiskey festivals, I guess.
Yeah, we've covered quite a few. We've been to Helmsborough for
the IT was. Loman and Clyde.
Loman and Clyde, Yeah. We've been to, obviously we've
been a couple of times to the one in Murrayfield in Edinburgh,
Edinburgh, Edinburgh Whiskey Festival.
Yeah, Whiskey friends as. Well whiskey, fried and Fife.
Whiskey and Fife as well. Festival, so we've we've been to
a fair share. We have and the thing about them
is. Even that is a drop in the water
compared to what there is. Oh well, there is and.
There's so many out there. So when you do have people
saying people in the industry, people who know the 2 two ways
of looking at it is you have people in the industry who say
this is the best whiskey festival we've done.
And then you have people in the industry who go to festivals and
other people who do go to a lot of whiskey festivals saying I'm
coming to this because it is up there.
I think Whiskey Fringe will always be seen as like the main
big whiskey festival in Edinburgh.
Yeah, in Scotland. Then you have whiskey Paris
live. You have Whiskey London, London
live, London. Is it London live or whiskey in
London? Whatever.
And you have actually don't. If Chuck was here, he'd be
saying you have the Chichiboo Fest out in Japan.
Absolutely, they're global, but this is what what makes a good
whiskey festival. And I think that's a question
that we do want to ask a little bit more about is what makes a
good whiskey festival. And I think one of the things
that I'll say is that when you have a room full of just indie
bottlers, we've been lucky enough to go to Whiskey Fringe a
couple of Times Now, I guess. And the downstairs better
Whiskey Fringe is a sort of independent newish distilleries
and independent. And what everyone always says is
it is the busiest. Yeah, part of the festival
because. There is that diversity there
and there is that, you know, you know that people will be, you
know, having interesting releases.
You know there'll be there'll be different things that you can
try. Yeah, and, and it's good fun and
you're meeting people who, and not that everyone else doesn't,
but you know, you can go to a whiskey festival and you can
have a big brand there. And that big brand will have
maybe a brand advocacy team or a brand ambassador.
And, and that's fine. And that's great because there's
some fantastic brand ambassadors out there like Mike Brown and,
and some of the other guys that we've met.
So getting a chance to speak to those guys, you see the passion
coming through. Other brands might even put
somebody like Stephen Woodcock on the stand.
And you know, then you're getting a chance to actually
meet the guy who's blending it and who's has a fingerprint on
the whiskey. But when you go to an
independent, the section of the independent or you're going
somewhere, it's all independents that are in there.
You're meeting the people who are literally doing it.
You know, Woody and Megan will be there today and they'll be
sitting there standing there on the thing and they'll be talking
about what they're doing. George and Rachel Keebel, you'll
have the Thompson brothers will be down.
And it's basically it is these guys are what we're giving you
is what we've physically made ourselves.
Absolutely. And it's a very good point,
Graham, because what you're saying is not only is a great
chance to try the whiskey and try maybe something a wee bit
different that they might have at the festival, etcetera, I'm
sure people will be bringing special bottles along.
It's also a great opportunity, like you said, to speak to the
producer, speak to those people, ask questions, get to know about
what these brands do, how they do it.
But you know, if you're a whiskey fringe and you are
speaking at the refind, I had a rare find you.
They just had a couple of chances.
Like what we did see from that is actually such an engaged
audience. People were asking us these
questions that really should have been asking the producers.
Right. Yeah, yeah.
But also it's the second side of it.
The secondary part from a brand perspective is it's the people
who are coming in are important. Yes.
Now, I'm not going to slaughter any, any whiskey festival in
general. But when you get a group of
engaged people who know what basically what you know is that
this room is going to be full of whiskey geeks.
Yeah, right. So the geeks have.
This is where they're all going. This is Comic Con.
There are this is, you know, for whiskey geeks.
This is. This is it, you know, and.
We even got dressed up. We've got yeah, we've got our
teachers, we're cosplaying, we're broadcasters.
But that because. But there is a danger You we've
seen it ourselves. It's a long day.
You're standing on a stall and you're pouring whiskey.
And then what you have is you have one person that comes.
There are people who walk about these festivals with pens and
paper and notepads, right? Oh, yeah.
Great. Yeah.
They're coming up and going, right?
I've researched that you're going to be here.
I've found that you've got, you know, an unnamed lowland.
I want to, I want to try it and I want to talk about it and I
want to hear about it. Great.
Then it gives us an or it gives the brand an opportunity to
speak to them. Then also you just get people
that are just literally walking around going oh, I'll try some
of that or oh, I'll try something.
That's now of course, we always advocate please festival
responsibly, OK, But you do just get people sometimes that just
go like we interviewed a guy at the Roman and Clyde Whiskey
Festival. I said, what have you tried
today? And he went row one, right?
And I went, OK, And I said, Ellie, stand out.
And he went, it all just tastes like whiskey, but that's fine.
That's his prerogative. He was there.
So this is where you're literally going to get you're
not going to get people going. Can I try your most expensive or
can I try your oldest whiskey? What they're going to say is
they're going to say, can I, can I, can I try what?
I really like ROM casts. I want to try all the.
ROM casts finishes, so I'm looking forward to it.
But Howard, right. Talk us through your journey.
How did you get any whiskey? So I've always like since I
became drinking age have have enjoyed whiskey.
Which is of course like 3 or 4 years after we overcame the
drinking age of these. Days unfortunately, but I, I was
in consulting and I, I did tax consulting and large projects
and I'd be on the road with project teams and you'd go out
it, you'd get in early, you'd work late, you'd go out, you'd
have, you'd have some drinks to unwind.
And I was, I was on a project, I think where I really began my,
my love of Scotch was, I was in a project in London and it
wasn't a long term project, but I was out there for weeks at a
time and I discovered what, what?
Well, in London, cash strength and independent bottled Scotch,
particularly I, I had a bottle from the whiskey exchange that
was their Christmas mall. It was a Glenn Farkle in there.
It was a cash strength and it was just, it was just
incredible. And so I think that that was
that was my, the start of my journey was start with having
just social like drinks, like a Doer's or Johnnie Walker.
And then when I when I came to the UK from from the US and got
exposure to to some of the great distilleries in Scotland and
what they were able to produce at at at non chill, filtered at
at at higher strengths, it really got me thinking and
wanting to explore what else is out there.
And when is this roughly time wise what we're talking?
How? Many years ago, yeah.
So. 2016 was the first time I went out there and then 2018 I
would say was when I started to get down in the deep end where I
was, I was seeing the independent bottlers and, and
looking for, for distilleries that didn't have releases that
were usually used for, not for, for blending, not not
necessarily as as a, as a single mall.
So you were doing that on your kind of personal level.
You were just seeing those different whiskeys that cast
strength whiskeys, independent bottlers.
How long then until you started your business then?
Yes, I, I, I continued to do consulting through, through 2022
and towards the, the end of the pandemic, I got to be managing
director at a large global firm. And I, I found myself
unsatisfied with, with where I was.
I got to the, the, the pinnacle, so to speak, at what I thought
was the most prestigious firm and, and doing the kind of work
that I wanted to do with the level I wanted to do it.
But I, I, I was just unsatisfied.
I, I didn't, I didn't think that this was how I wanted to spend
my life. And so I, I, I left what, what
at that point it was, it was a hard, you know, summit to climb,
but I had got to, to there. And I, I said, I want to do
something entrepreneurial. And so I, I wrote some business
plans and I, I promised my, my wife I would operate no more
than three entrepreneurial businesses at once.
And and and I'm still on the first business.
Well, that's good, man. That's really good.
I wrote the and I thought that there was I and I still believe
it, that it's just logistically and operationally and from a
regulatory perspective, it's hard to operate in the US,
especially with single cast cash strength whiskeys, the stuff I
like. And I sought, I sought to use my
experience with, with regulators and, and with, with process to,
to try to, to come up with a way to efficiently get the, the
kinds of whiskeys that I loved. The stuff that was that was
single casket was limited release into the US and
available for consumers to to easily purchase and and get into
their home bars and and into to their their glasses ultimately.
'Cause it's a niche. You're niche, Dang, aren't you?
Because when you going back before you even started the
business and came up with a business plan, you know, we've
got Scott Moore. Hello, Scott.
And his current wife out there in the States.
And Scott. Scott will travel around the
country with the work that he does with the Memphis Symphony
Orchestra. He is travelling a lot for work.
And what he'll be able to do is he'll be able to work out, oh, I
could go to this state and I know I can get this supporter
and hear that. Yeah.
And he, he is looking. I mean, the thing that really
gave us introduction to Scott was when it was a weekend DRAM
roll call and Ross spotted some really obscure.
It was a Black Adder. I think it was like an Inver
Gordon 50 or something like that.
It was an old grain whiskey bottle by Black at our
Independent bottle. Yeah, and Ross and.
Ross went. How have you got that in
America? Where did you find this?
And then that triggered him to do his that triggered him to do
his video, which was great. And it was started the video of
people showing their bars and we saw whiskey shed PM from from
Bob cutting and we've seen we've seen Craig Darling's bar
absolutely fantastic. But point being is there are
there are people out in America, in the States and all over the
world really, but in America that we'll be searching for
unique and bespoke whiskeys. And how easy is that to explain
it from where we're sitting in a pub with over 800 bottles of
whiskey and a bridge of independent bottlers, how easy
is it for the consumer in the States?
So when you've come back from London, as you're going far
less, you've you've gone right and I need to find more, not not
just your standard OB's on the shelf.
How hard is that? It's, it's, it can be incredibly
difficult, especially depending on which state you're in.
So at the time, I was living in the state of Pennsylvania, which
is what what we call a control state, meaning the government
has controlled monopoly on the retail tier.
So this is maybe a bit like in Sweden where the kind of the
liquor stores and Sweden are all kind of government owned.
Yeah, you've got a limited selection of what you can buy.
Is that the same idea? In in certain states, yeah.
Yeah. So each state is different,
their own, their own little fiefdoms.
Yeah. But in Pennsylvania, there's a
there's a Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board and there's a
buyer for spirits. And that buyer for spirits is in
charge of buying the the, the what's going to be in the
physical stores throughout the state.
Just one person. Basically.
So they have full control. So if that person doesn't think
that whiskey is really that big a business and decides that
tequila or rum or cognac is a bigger opportunity, then
basically the shop shelves will be full of that but not and
you'll get limited whiskey on there.
You'll have limited Scotch in there because they might think
Scotch is in a good category because they what they've chosen
is a moving. Yeah, Well, that's the next
thing. Yeah.
Because I want to dive into this.
I really want to go into how it works because I don't know if
I've told you, Angus, but I was actually in India for a wee
while at the beginning of the year.
Yeah, Really. Yeah, I was over there.
I don't know, I wondered where you are, but, but I've done a
lot of conversations about India and Indian market.
And we've, we've done podcast episodes where we've discussed
the the challenges and the way that India's set up.
But we've never, we've spoken to Scott Moore about it, who's a
consumer, and he talks about how difficult it is for him to get
to get easier, how tricky it is depending state by state.
So what it what is the system in the States?
Then explain it to us as easily as you possibly can so we can
understand how hard or how easy it is to get whiskey in America.
Yeah. So we, we have a, I'll start at
the top level. We have a, we have a three tier
system where you've got, you've got the producer tier.
Those are the people that that make the products.
You have the wholesale tier. That's where I sit.
Those are people that that import the products and sell to
one another and includes local distributors in each state.
Each state likes to to protect themselves and have local people
doing distribution within their state.
And then you have the retail tier and that includes stores
and bars and pubs and all the on premise and off premise items
within the so you get licensed unlicensed at at the national
level by the TTB for for wholesale and and import.
And the TTB or who? Sorry, that's.
The the federal government. That's federal government tax
and trade. Bureau.
There they go, the Bureau. Guys at the Bureau.
They've been good to, they've been good to work with.
I have no complaints working with the TTBI.
When they interviewed me, they asked if I was going to pay my
taxes and I said, Oh yeah, I'll pay my and then that.
Then things went a lot easier after.
They want to make things as long as you're paying taxes.
You get your license for the TTB then, right?
So you're licensed. So then what happens?
So then we have, I have a state license, so I have state
licenses. My home state is Florida now.
Really great place to do business.
Hello to the Tampa Bay Whiskey Club.
Thank you for the support. Tampa Bay Whiskey Club, Alfredo,
Roberto Alley and the rest of the members.
Really good guys. Hope to be out.
I'll be in Tampa I think in in April, yeah.
So hopefully we'll have a DRAM, then hopefully this will be out
by. Yeah.
So, yeah. So yeah, that's our home state
by. Home state, we've got import
export licenses in Florida, but then if we want to do business
in other states, some states require licenses, others don't.
So for for California, we've got and I won't name all the states,
but you know there's an out of state shippers permit you have
to have, right. In New York State, there's like
a marketing permit that we have to have, I forget what they call
it. And in Maryland we registered to
be in. And so all the different states,
some have a charge, some charge you for the license to be able
to do it, some charge you by the SKU.
So every brand label we have to register.
So for for one of the reasons why it's challenging to bring
single cask in to the US is that each of the labels, depending on
how the labels are designed, is its own registration.
So Florida might charge me $30.00 for the label, New York
might charge me $20.00 for the label and and.
So what you say for the label you're talking about like let's
just say if, if, if we're talking about living souls,
because living souls are one of your brands you distribute and
bring in living souls can bring out.
So the living souls label is there, but let's just say if
they give you an out turn of say three different tasks, then 100
bottles of this cask A, 200 bottles of cask B and 300
bottles of cask C, you would have to pay for each one of
those out a label registration for cask A, a label registration
for cask B for the same sake, even though it's the same brand.
Yes, right. Wow.
And that's very I think that's very similar in India.
I think there's a similarity. And then when it when you talk
about the cost of that, what about the time scale?
Is it quick turn around or do you have to submit it and wait a
few weeks, months to get labels registered?
So. My home state of Florida is
pretty efficient because they're, they, they like to
collect the revenue. So within 24 hours of me
submitting it, they'll they'll approve it and then we can be
selling. So you can have literally
bottles ready to go and. But other States and I won't
name names because we like to go on good terms with the other.
They can, they can take a month and then they ask questions
about it and and and so it can be a longer process.
And all right, so you said you weren't going to name all the
states that you're actually in because, but how many states
across America are you in there? Well, what?
What I've done as a, as a new importers, our, our first
shipment came in 2024 is we, we took an effort versus impact
approach to say what are the biggest markets that we can be
in with, with the lowest amount of effort and are going to have
the biggest impact on, on the the bottom line.
And so for us, we looked at New York State and New York State's
a great place to do business. And so that was the first market
we were in. And in 2024, we're in, we're in
some of the best bars in Manhattan, which is pretty
prestigious. And it's it's, it helps us
nationally. So we're in places like the
Brandy Library, we're in Copper and Oak, we're in the travel bar
in Brooklyn there. And that was important for me
because I see that really as advertising that these great
places are willing to stock the products.
And when people, there's a lot of tourists that come into those
bars that they can see it there and they can go want to get it.
And then the other thing that we did as as part of my, my
business plan is I wanted to work with a good digital
partner. So most of the stores that we
work with are digital first, meaning they have really great
websites and they allow people to, to buy things online in
addition to their, their brick and mortar.
They don't rely on foot traffic. And so the stores that we've
been able to work with in New York State stock most of the
skews that I import so that consumers don't have to go find
the bottle. Cuz on a, on a given import, I
may only get of a single cask. And this is a good like I may
get 10 cases of 60 bottles in the country and.
Yeah. So where do you put that?
Yeah. So we don't want, we don't want
the consumer to have to figure out what this store has this
bottle and that store has that one cuz you're never going to
get the single the right bottle in the right store.
So we work with with, with places that had really good
e-commerce strategy so that consumers are able to to go
online and buy the bottles and and those New York retailers
have have worked out pretty good deals where they're able to to
ship. Yeah.
And so, and they've got national reach as well.
Yeah, most of them are able to. There's a couple states that
don't like you to ship into them that they don't ship into.
But most of the country, unless your state is litigious are are
able to to get the bottles. So the idea being, you know,
someone like Scott Moore, he's in New York for for work or a
wee trip with his current wife. They pop into one of these bars,
he sees a bottle on the shelf. Wow, we've never seen that
before. Orders it and goes, this is
great. I can get this in the States
now. And instead of trying to find
out what shop he can get it in or store, he can find out.
Basically he can just go online and there'll be a retailer
hopefully. So that's actually that is an
interesting model and that's where for me trying to really
understand it because so from the other point of view then
let's just say we want to get Whiskey Stories podcast product
into the States, then yeah, how do we do it?
Yeah. So step one is, you know,
working on what the price is going to be.
Yeah, because in the three tier system, it shocks a lot of
people to see how how there's a there's a kind of a snowball
effect. Everybody takes their.
Car, yeah. So you know, 1st we have to
convert from from pounds to dollars, which which is simple
enough. And then we ship into the US
There's a lot of cost to get things over the Atlantic and
there's filings. And so we, we, you would need to
have an FDA registration. We'd need to notify the FDA when
the product is coming should port fees when it comes in the
port, they're gonna have a fee. I pay a customs broker to do the
filings. She does a great job.
It's done right quickly the first time, every time, and then
we bring it into a warehouse and.
You do all that. Yeah, I coordinate all that.
Right. So yeah, so literally all I'm
doing is at this point, as I'm saying to you, yeah, I've found
you. I've got a brand, I've got
Whiskey stories, podcast Blend, which we're going to get sorted
once I get my batting tank cleaned.
Coming coming in later this year at some.
Point I say to you, right, how do we get whiskey stories blend
into the states? I speak to you and you say,
right, I'll sort of that. Yeah, I give the parade of
horribles and all of the costs. Right.
And so then tell me this then with all those costs, if I do
you base it on, but the bottle it costs us or if I say to you
right, what the bottle to retail, I say the retail value
of this bottle is going to say 50 lbs for easy, right?
Do you then take that and then work out what that has to sit on
the shelf at in America or do we have to then work out a deal
saying or do you say to be great?
If you want the bottle to cost $50.00 in America, you need to
sell it to us at X price. Is that how that works then?
Yeah, it's kind of a blend of both, I would say.
Good use of an. Analogy, good blend, yeah, So we
get what's called X works pricing where the supplier said
this is what the bottle is going to cost and at FoB where you can
pick it up at a point. So X works.
So why understanding X works is effectively, if I said to you, X
works, right, I'm going to bottle all this, I'm going to
label it and then I'm going to put it in the cases and I'm
going to leave it at the front door of diggers.
And then it's up to you. I'm going to sell it to you at
this price. And that's all I'm going to do.
And then it's your now your job, which I can help you with, but
it's your job to find somebody in a van to pick it up, then
take it to either an airport that's going to ship it or or
probably go by sea. So it's going to go to
Grangemouth or someplace like that, but that's X works
literally just means this is the price of the bottles left at the
front door for you to then collect and do whatever you want
with. Yeah.
So that OK. So we start with that and I'll,
I'll run that through the model that I have which, which has all
of these costs that that I so we, we spread out all the costs
of import from because we consolidate across suppliers
typically to to try to to lower that.
And then we have we have cost for warehousing.
So for instance, the state of California has a resting rule
where it has to, it has to rest for 24 hours in California.
Some might say it just has to touch, but it, it has to touch
or, or rest depending on who you talk to.
And then from there it, it can go out to a retailer, but that's
to keep the warehouses and business in California.
So our our model incorporates all of those costs for, for,
for, for third parties, a small amount of margin for us a wee a
wee bit. And then we've got distributors
in each state that we we work with, they get paid.
And then we have the retailer in the US and the retailer
typically in the US likes to earn about 30% margin.
Some retailers are lower, some are a little higher, depending
on the real. Estate, which is a big margin,
isn't. It so the retailer takes 30%,
but then also you've got so go, let's go the other way.
So the retailers take a 30% margin roughly give or take,
then your distributors getting something.
They like some some of the full service distributors that that
are in the the middle of the country like to earn 30%.
So the retailers getting 30, yes, distributors getting 30,
yeah, we're having to pay for it to sit in California for a day
and we haven't. Gone to California.
And we haven't even mentioned the T word either.
Yeah, we have to hire ups and taxes and duties.
Yeah, I was, I was getting to that right.
OK. Sorry.
Yeah, no, it's a carry on. Yeah, yeah.
I mean we went in a couple. So we went, I was giving you the
parade of horribles from the import side when we're landing
and then there's one also then from the.
So what we prepare is a waterfall analysis.
We have all the costs. So that's usually what happens
with the supplier is they give me the price, I look at it and
then it's it looks like it's initially a good price with X
works and then we layer and all these costs we're like this is
what it's going to land at the shelf at.
And then we have that talk is like you, I don't know if this
is going to be sellable here. Sometimes we can see a product
like 99 and one from living Souls.
Yeah, we knew that that was going to be instantly.
We didn't have a conversation about that.
But like other products with them or other suppliers, we
might have that conversation to say if this is going to sit at
$500, do we think people are going to buy it at $500?
Yeah, because ultimately the person so who picks up the belt
really who who gets hit here Because if I'm saying you X
Works price, so I'm saying it says retail price at £50, let's
just say X Works is going. So we've not included any tax on
that. We're not including any margin
on that. Well, we are making a margin.
We're not a retail margin. I'll maybe say to you, right,
it's going to cost you £35 per bottle, right.
Let's say for easy counting, that's 350 bottles because we're
giving you 10. We're giving you, we're giving
you 100 bottles. Yeah, sorry, we're giving you
1010 bottles. My maths is not in a good place
right now. So it's all right.
You're getting 10 bottles for easy count.
There's 10 bottles, 35 lbs cost to you.
OK, then you've got to do all layer all your other costs on
top. Roughly speaking, what would you
reckon that would sit on the shelf in the States and for?
35 LB bottle. But we would retail at 50, but
you're going to have to add in all your costs on.
That, yeah, I think in the US three tier system that's that's
going to be close to, to it's going to be pushing like close
to 140 a $150.00 depending on where that and depends where the
pound is. Yeah.
So you can buy it for 50, so I can buy it for £50 in the shop
in Scotland, but the the consumer in the States is going
to have to pay 100. And then what you have the
problem is you that like you said, you have to have
conversations with us to go right guys.
Is your product realistically going to justify somebody's, how
can they justify spending that kind of money on your whiskey?
And if they do, are they going to be enthusiastic enough to go
back and want more or are they going to go, I'm not drinking
that, it's rubbish, that was an Angus blend and go.
And then your problem is your retailer stuck with that stock.
Well, we like, we don't like retailers to be stuck with.
Stuff exactly, because then the problem is the retailer never
comes back to you again because he says, Howard, the last time
you gave me stuff I took a punt in it and it was rubbish.
So so this is so. So where do you have to have
that conversation? First or last, don't you?
Yeah, it's a, it's a long and it's a hard conversation and
sometimes it's 1:00. We, we don't finish like their
products that we think would be great.
But maybe the economics just don't work in the US,
unfortunately. Because.
Well. Well, no, I'm just that is the
problem that you have is that it's one of the conversations
that we'll be having a lot this week actually with people is
when you're putting, when you're an independent bottler or a
blender or anybody really and you've got the head or heart
situation, what hat do you put on?
Do you put, sit there and go, I love this DRAM.
I would drink this DRAM. This is an absolute cracking
DRAM, but then you have to then put your other hat on and go
get. A businessman.
Is this drama actually going to sell at the price that we put it
on the shelf at? Is it going to sit on the shelf
beside everybody else's drama at the same price and not stand
out? Or is it going to be pitched too
high? Or is it just not going to?
You know, that's where conversations like that, people
really in the whiskey industry, if you're on the creation side,
don't like to have. Well, maybe do they?
But what I would say is we talk about all the time Jura, there's
Dura 10 and Dura isn't, well, Dura itself is the number one
selling single malt in Scotland, UK, brand new UK, yeah.
And people will go what there is.
It's 40% ABV S It does what it needs to do.
People buy it 26 LB a bottle in the coop or in the supermarket.
That's what they do then, you know, so they have to make a
decision. The people White and Mackay are
sitting there going, yeah, that's that's what it is.
That's a product. That's a brand that sells.
Yeah. But that leads interestingly
into the kind of products you've decided to base your business
around because you're not, you're primarily independent
bottlers, small distilleries, etcetera.
You're not, you're not going after those big distilleries
because they're already taken for right.
So this is trying, what you're trying to do in a way is bring
something that's not currently in America to America, which is
a really, really interesting decision as well because also
you're you're kind of breaking new ground as you're doing that
as well. Yeah, So the, the distilleries
and the brands largely that I've brought in, I I sought out and
they weren't in the US and I wanted them to be in the US.
So at Hollywood Distillery, for instance, I was knocking on the
door before they even had single ball.
Really available. So you were.
Cuz I loved what they were doing with their experimentations in
malt bills. We call it mash bills in the US,
but with different malts and specialty yeasts.
I thought it was. I still do.
I think it's incredibly exciting and it wasn't in the US.
And I love what Annandale does with single cast cash strength
and no traditional importer would want to mess around with
that because of the logistical challenges of trying to well.
Does that make it difficult for you?
Because what you've picked is you've picked 2 brands, 2
distillery brands that are doing something very different by
making things completely unique all the time, so the consistency
is not there. Does that make it harder for
you? Because ultimately you've got a
situation where you know what happens if I like that Hollywood
release and I go, I love that, and then I go, I can't get it
anymore because the next holiday's gone.
There's a nice part to that, but also there's equally a challenge
to that as well. There, there is a lot of chat.
So there's challenge with getting that shelf space and
then when it's sold out, it's sold out, but it doesn't
necessarily mean that that retailer is going to want to put
a different SKU from that producer in that shelf space.
It's a lot of work. We for in Adendale's case, we
imported a double Oaked and double oak, not on their end,
their single cast, meaning one cask from from start to finish,
but they used a double oak from a prominent bourbon distillery.
And we imported it last year and it, it was phenomenal and it
worked really well and, and people really liked it.
And we have another double oak cast pick, but I've got the
buyers are saying, well, we like that old one.
We don't know about the new one. And it's like, well, it's trust
me, it's better. But but it's it's.
Challenging you've got you've got it is.
It is, but I guess what you're saying with, you know, we talk
about Jura and and Jura #1 best selling single malt brand in the
UK and that has a market. But there is another market
which like you said, the people go Jura, they're not buying
Jura, they're buying. So there is, you know, I'm sure
like the UK and the US there is this market for cast strength,
single cast. Yeah, new distilleries,
interesting independent bottlers and if you can bring that to
that market, then you know you. You and if you could hook into
that market and that's. And expand that market.
Well, yeah, I mean, but there's my next question then is who
picks up the bill for marketing? Because your, your point here is
that, yeah, if you suddenly say I've got Hollywood now you put
that in a shop, how many people are going to go, wow, Hollywood
versus what you have to do to push that to make itself?
Do you pick up the bill for that?
Does the retailer pick up the bill for that?
Do Hollywood or the the brand that you're bringing in do that?
Or is it a shared cost for everybody?
Yeah. So I, I try to do, do it in a
shared fashion where when we go out around the country, we'll,
we'll allocate a certain amount to the, the brands for, for AMP
that we, we ask them to, to chip in and contribute.
But, but largely like if, if I'm going out to New York or if I'm
going out to California, or even if I'm going to the other side
of Florida for the like week, my cost to be out there is, is, is
I'm not allocating that. We're just allocating, you know,
actual costs. Like if there's a booth, we'll
put part of the booth back to the brands.
If if we're pouring bottles, we'll before we pour the
bottles, we'll ask the brands you know to contribute some of
that to to. So you'll say liquid available?
Yeah. So you'll say living Souls, for
example, we're going to be at a festival somewhere in the
States, like like New York. 5 bottles to.
Give us, give us some pouring stock that we don't have to pay
for, but it gives us a chance to do the liquid to lip situation.
Yeah, but it's critical. Yeah, absolutely.
Especially for new brands that people aren't familiar with.
Getting liquid and glasses and getting people trying it and
talking about it. OK, so that's you'll split that
and activate like because this is the other thing brand
activations and things like that.
Do you do you do all those kind of stuff?
Will you be, will that be part of your in your wheelhouse where
you'll say new brand or or even just current brands that we've
got? But we're going to do activation
events where it might be a case of, you know, there's loads of
cool activations that we've heard about over since during
the podcast, but things like cocktail master classes, taste
things. I know you do a lot of online
tastings and things like that as well, but is that something that
you'll be doing as well? Yeah.
We, we, we do activations. One of the one of the, I think
great things that we do for our brands is we've built up a good
Rolodex of, of people that are that are American influencers
and can help to to spread the word that they do podcasts like
you. So if you ever come to the US
and you want to meet up with some.
If you ever need somebody to come over and do a bit of
punting for your for your for your products, it'll let us
know, especially around the World Cup time, that would be
it'd be quite nice to get out, but.
Scotland Scotland might be playing a game in in Florida.
Yeah, there we go. We can wiggle our way out.
There's. Some good stuff in Miami.
We just, we just opened Massachusetts as a market.
Really. You need us.
You need us there. OK, so, so, so you tap into
influencers, you tap into. Media.
And clubs as well like Tampa for.
Sure. Yeah, the clubs are, are are
critical for us. So we we built that in a in a
really short period of time if you think about it since 2024.
And we we get our brands in touch, we get, we make sure that
they get some, some liquid. We work with them to do that.
And I think, I think that's a real value add as the service
and it's it's critical to what we do.
We run a online account, Scotch Drinkers only to help promote
our brands to the US and be we also have with Scotch Drinkers
only, we work with one of our retailers in New York that does
fulfillment of the brand. So people can can think of
Scotch Drinkers only, they can go to scotchdrinkersonly.com and
they can easily get, you know, all the brands that we import.
And that, that I suppose what you're doing there is you're,
you're tapping into, but also creating and building your own
community on that front where, because you look the I was at
the in whiskey conference last week and Stephanie McLeod, the
blending blending director for John Deere's and Sons, She's
been, she's been working in whiskey for a long time.
And the, the chat was about the challenges that we have and the
American market was actually spoken about quite a lot
because. And we'll maybe talk about the
tariffs there as what they've been important on that.
And, well, that's done to the industry.
But one of the things she was asked was, you know, one of the
things she said was sorry, is, you know, the whiskey industry
and people are working in the industry, fish where the fish
are. You know, that's what we've got
to start doing. And I suppose what you've had to
start doing is find the fish that like to eat, nibble on.
Yeah, yeah, unique, bespoke. Because you can't put a
marketing budget out and start putting billboards up like Glenn
Fennick would do or like the other guy.
Or even marketing might be a challenge anyway.
But you. Know they've definitely slowed
down in the past year. I would say really the big boys,
yeah. But but you can't do that
because you can't do that for Holy Rood or you can't do that
because it just it probably doesn't get the impact it does.
However, sourcing whiskey club that might have fifty members of
those fifty members, you know, but 85% of them are going to be
absolutely engaged on the products that you're selling.
And of that 85%, maybe 15% of them will be the guys that go,
I'm going to purchase a bottle of that.
And if you can tap in all in a country the size of America, you
know that that's that. Yeah.
But it's interesting because I think, you know, we talk it's a
more mature market than maybe other markets we talk about.
We talk a lot about India on the podcast.
When you talk about, you know, there's so many people just
turning drinking age. These are people that might
decide to drink whiskey in America.
It's like, wow, there's a lot of people that might be drinking
whiskey, but we can convert them to single cast, cast strength,
interesting distilleries. It's almost like you're that
stage ahead. Of course.
Yeah. And you're also, you're also
tapping into a demographic of people who have the income or
the disposable income that could spend.
Like you say, if you come to Scotland, then you're getting a
bottle for £50 and it's sitting on the shelf and the state's
£150 a $150. You know that is that a
different demographic like the whiskey drinker over in the
States? Do you get pubs like Diggers
where you can get some absolutely incredible deals on
and transport for 35 mils for the prices that you're getting?
Or is it the whiskey drinker that you see in in the States is
somebody is a little bit more affluent with a bit more money
to spend? I I don't think I don't think
not just saying this, I don't think bars like this exist in
the US where you and one of the I I love coming to Scotland.
I love coming to places like this.
I love coming to like places like the pot still when I go to
Glasgow, where you have access to just so many amazing trams at
at reasonable prices in in the US.
It it just it's difficult to I think that so in the US bourbon
yeah is our is the home team. Yeah, yeah.
And so there are places like this for bourbon, yeah, where
you can go, but there's not too many places that you can go in
the US and have this, this variety of Scotch and.
It's when you see spoiled Gram. We are.
We absolutely are. But it's when he's lucky.
He's a lad. He's the guy for the Tampa Bay
Whiskey Club and he's he's got, I mean, his his collection that
he's got. He showed me pictures of it.
And you really took it. Take it for granted.
Sometimes you can fall into a trap where you speak to someone
from abroad and you're, you know, oh, you like a whiskey, do
you? And you naively just like you
probably only see the whiskeys that, you know, the stuff that
we we see all the time, but you've never seen anything like
this. So you could fall into that trap
where you're just a bit like, all right, very good.
Like what, Ross being amazed at Scott Moore's back bar that he
has in his house. And then you see this guy and he
pulls out his phone and he shows me his and it's like a shot.
He has a shot. I think he had more Spring Bank
than the Spring Bank gift shop IF.
If I say, and the great thing about that was he he said that
on the taste, I did a tasting for them in here when they when
the guys came and one of the drams that we put on was the
last DRAM was the Woody's Highland Park 7 that he did
exclusively for Diggers. And he looked at that and he
said, look at all the Highland parks I've got.
And he had all of them, 30 year old 2520 ones, whatever you can
get the age statement, he's had a lot of that.
And I said, well that's great, but have you ever tried 7 year
old single cask Highland Park? And he went no.
And he wasn't really sure about it.
He tried it and he was like, I need to buy at least three
bottles of that and he couldn't because it was all sold out.
But that opportunity is, you know, that's something that
people don't get a chance to do, whereas we do in this.
And and the other thing we were talking before Graham managed to
get out of a scratcher this morning, Howard, we were talking
about how in America there's there, there's like a kind of
group of people that just go for the highest ABV possible.
They hunt for these bottles. Oh, really?
Yeah, There's a mark, there's a market there where there are
guys. What was expression?
Hazmat so. Hazmat.
W17 percent alcohol they they seek out really.
Yeah, we there's a lot of proof hounds.
Proof, yeah. Yeah.
So what's the highest percentage ABV whiskey you've imported?
However, can you remember or? Yeah, I imported a new make
spirit that was. Pretty because how does that
work in America? Because obviously once it's left
Scotland as new make spirit, it will never be whiskey.
No, no. So.
So it was kind of funny. Well.
It'll never be Scotch whiskey. Yeah.
I had to write the TTB and we had to get a formula approval
for new make spirit because because.
No one had ever imported it before as like for retail or.
I'm sure someone had some more, but yeah, yeah.
But so if, if your whiskey is Scotch whiskey, it gets a pass
from the TTB, You don't have to write a formula.
They probably are not going to do any kind of analysis.
Like they trust it. Yeah, yeah.
They know that if, if, if SWA and the UK government has said
that this is Scotch whiskey, that it's it's OK.
Yeah, it's good. It's good stuff.
But anything else based like Canadian whiskey and I think
Irish whiskey, there's like other but but numake spirit or
gin or a number of other things. You need to have a form, what's
called a formula. So I had to write up all the
steps that go into making Scotch up until it going into the oak
barrel and they approved it and we imported it.
And I I think that was it, that 63 1/2% alcohol, I don't recall.
That wasn't even aged in a barrel at that by cask or
anything. It was literally just straight
from the cells. And that's an entertainer and a
tanker. Yeah.
So you're, so you are especially numate because.
I mean you selling this in bottles to the public?
Was. Oh yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and it went down quite well.
I mean you well the proof hounds would well.
I was gonna say there's proof hounds, but there's also a
culture of moonshine in America as well.
You know the kind of clear spirit so.
I don't know if it would scale, but shops that got it sold it
out in 24 hours just because people had not seen it before.
Yeah, yeah, just because it was just something different, just
something new. We we kept the price sharp.
It was, it was. So it's a funny story with that
like I was getting, I was getting charged warehouse rent
on this jug of new make spirit and the tariffs were about to be
implemented. So I based, I called up my
friends at whiskey broker and I said, let's let's put it in the
bottle and get it into the US before the tariffs are
implemented. And we airlifted out a whole
bunch of of liquid on April 1st last year.
The tariffs went into effect April 2nd.
Happy birthday, Grandpa. And so that that was, that was
that was that was a A1 time, you know, great thing that we did.
Yeah, yeah, that was that. Was you could move like that
because it is you don't have really too much of a problem
with that now that like whiskey you meant whiskey broker.
I should say it's funny whiskey broker.
I've been speaking a lot about them this week as well and the
the the is it Martin his name is.
Martin and Jane Armstrong. Down, down, and now they're
down. South in Creetown.
Yes, yeah, he's a. Beautiful, sweet coward, Yeah, I
was. And they're the, these guys as
A, the, the, the B word, the broker word is in their name.
Yeah. But actually they, they, they
sell, buy and sell casks to, to trade.
They are not involved in any investment.
What you know, in fact, Martin's been very actively against it
and spoken very openly about it and and talked to me about it as
well in length. But they are one of the people
that they bottle stuff, but they also do a lot of storage because
that's the next the question I want to have.
We've got some duty paid samples in front of us.
But what I wonder, how do you, how do you go like sourcing
whiskey Then what's the process for you?
Like what's it been like for the last couple of weeks for you
being in and around and speaking to people?
Yeah. So I, I should preface with my
suppliers will always be better at independent bottling then
then I would ever be because they, they either own the
warehouse or they're close to the warehouse.
And so my process is I, I, I, I meet with them, I see what they
have available. I try to give them some, some
feedback. What I see domestically in my
market, what, what sales have been moving quicker for me, what
types of bottles people are looking for price ranges that
the US public seems to you know from, from my sales data that I
see move. And I try to have collaborative
conversations with, with all the suppliers so that they can
either set up their out turns to, to accommodate what will
work for us. Or if they're, they're sourcing
whiskey, they can try to source things that that work.
I do some private casks either for, for clubs or for stores or
just curiosities like fun experiments I like to do just
for myself. And so my, my process for that
is when we're looking at where the whiskey, I run it through
the same model. And I said, where is this going
to be? And is it, is it going to be
economically viable on the shelf?
Wow. And that probably makes it a lot
easier because going to our independent bottler and saying,
listen guys, what we know is that something very heavily
pitted, something that's 60 odd percent and something that's
dark will sell very, very well. And they can go and go right.
Here's the cast that we have in that category.
Whereas you don't have the power to go because you don't have the
selling power at the moment to go to have a big brand like, you
know, Glenn Morngy and saying, my whiskey drinkers want this
because they'll just go, well, pick what we've got and that's
what you get. Whereas you being able to have
that flexibility where we have now we've got samples in front
of us because it is fast approaching 11 AM.
So we should probably have a drama.
It's it's, that's what we got. What, what are these, what
you've you've brought in with you?
So what? Yeah, this first one here is a
Blair Athol. Yes.
So it's a Blairathol. It's a private cask.
I I bought from from Martin at whiskey broker.
I bought it in a in a hog's head, so.
This is one of your own cast. Yeah, it's a private cast that I
have. I wanted to share it with you
guys. Fantastic.
I saw some really strange cast that I had shipped over from
America. So this is a bourbon barrel that
held rum and tequila and now it has Blairathol in it.
Wow, OK. So wow.
It's hard to about. Cheers.
Cheers, and so none of the the I BS that I work with probably
would want to touch this, but I thought it looked.
Cool. You just thought, yeah, so this
is something, this is your own project.
Yeah, but this is, this is interesting where you're
mentioning that you're sourcing casks in America and then
bringing them to Scotland. You're almost involved in a kind
of, it's interesting. You're almost involved in the
other end of the industry where it's no we'll we'll bring casks
to Scotland that that can be used to mature Scotch.
It's really interesting. Yeah, I think it's it's
something that I think is fun. I think for for the US consumer.
I try to source from so it's not just a ex bourbon barrel, but I
try to pick what I think are fun distilleries that that you know,
so people can that are geeks can get into.
Well, what mash bill held this? Or was this rye or?
Or that is, that is the market. You're having it.
Like you say, if you can, if you could lift up the Independent
Spirits Festival and stick it into the States.
The people that are going to be in there later on this afternoon
are the people that you want because they're the people that
will sit there and go now like we've had which when Scott
Sneddon brought oat whiskey to our birthday party, it's
probably the best reaction to a whiskey that not many people
particularly enjoyed but actually loved at the same time.
Because what it was was it was OK OT it was oat whiskey.
People were a bit like not a drama that I would probably go
to regularly. It's probably where it's
sitting. However, the opportunity to try
2 drams of oat whiskey have been matured separately was just an
incredible thing. And that would be the same with
this. There'll be people who look at
that. I really want to try some water.
Tequila. Tequila, So that's what.
So this is a tequila and rum rum.
So what was in a bourbon barrel? So a bourbon barrel that said
had aged tequila in it and then aged rum in it and now has
Blair? What age?
What's? A10 year, 10 year.
Old 10 years Blair and. Blair Apple, traditionally, you
know, it would be cherry casks and that very kind of, you know,
that deep colour you see with Blair Athol from thinking the
floor and fauna. So this is this is something
completely different as well. Absolutely.
You know, it's not what you would normally see spirit from
that distillery. Yeah.
Fantastic. I mean, and I'll have to say,
well, we're going to have to come clean Howard and and let
the listeners in on a little secret.
But we were we were with each other yesterday for a long day
of drinking drabs. So I did try this last night and
I'm glad that I I still probably have the taste of it at the back
of my mouth before I tried it this morning again.
A. Bit of water and that's lovely.
But it's nice to revisit this. It's absolutely lovely.
Because we did try, there was a lot of drums consumed yesterday
there. Were a lot of drums, yeah.
And it was great. But the conversations that
you're having then are you speaking, Obviously you're,
you're re engaging with people you're already working with to
maintain that relationship, but are you also looking at building
new relationships and speaking to new people and seeing what
it's about? Yeah, so at the last Independent
Spirits Festival, shout out to Scotch on the Bayou.
She's a great influencer, runs a YouTube show in the US.
She grabbed me by the arm and physically dragged me to the
Living Souls booth and told me I had to try this stuff.
And there was like swarms of people.
And so I probably would not have tried to fight the swarm into
there. But that was that was how I
discovered them. And for me to add anyone to the
the portfolio of what I import, they really have to be additive.
They have to, they have to have something different.
We don't want to just import the same stuff with different
labels. And so I thought what what they
were doing with especially with the 99 in one, but also with
with some of the other products they have.
For a company, it's only been kind of doing what they're doing
for 18 months. Yeah, just making waves.
The the, the living souls, even the they're bottling, even the
bottles that they have. They're beautiful.
Do you know what? They're bottles, right?
Oh, they're. Bottles.
They are nice bottles. They're almost like wine.
Bottles. Well, they're cognac.
They're the cognac version of the tall round.
Ah, so that's like because I'm not really a cognac drinker but
if you were to buy. It may be cognac or Brandy A.
Standard cognac or a Brandy? That's their standard bottle.
Basically, if you looked at that the Brandy label and you were a
Brandy drinker, you'd look at that as the same way.
You'd say, well, that's just a tall, that's a very standardised
bottle. But basically what it's very
interesting is it means that when they go and buy the
bottles, they're buying them just as cheap as you can pick up
a tall round. But they're also that's I.
Think there's some cognac or Brandy company using a tall
round? Oh, these fancy bottles.
Yeah, fast. But as a brand to go in there
and the access to liquid that they've got and the stock and
and as you've said already heard just that the the the releases
that they've put are actually. 40 years incredible that's been
very popular in the US and they've they've done something
really interesting where they've done different batches.
So each of the batches has variation for people to to go
explore. And so I, I, we got contacted
by, by a number of people. We, we, I, I try to talk to
everyone that is interested and, and hear them out.
I run it, I run them through the pricing model and talk how, how
it works in the US. But in order for us to be able
to, to bring another brand because it's just me and my
wife. Yeah, my my my favorite wife.
Favorite wife. Yeah, Favorite, Favorite wife?
We're running the. Probably.
I had a good day, yeah. So I thought I only have so many
hours in the day just. Like to state that my current
wife is my favorite. Way I'm good for so far So far.
They have to grow the pie. So we don't want to just
reallocate pieces of the pie. We want to bring brands in that
have something really special, have something unique, something
that gets people exciting is going to do new entries into the
market. So when we brought Annandale in,
there was new states that were emailing us that weren't
currently on, on where we were working with that said, we want
Annandale. And so that that's, that's what
we're looking for. That's really cool and that and
that's the other problem is you'd love to say yes to
absolutely everybody, but from a time point of view, but also
you're you're the danger is and this is where it's the the
danger you have is you buy a you, you buy because you have to
pay for it, don't you? At the end of the day, this is
the bet that everyone forgets is you, you're the guy that has to
pay for the whiskey the first time.
So you buy 100 bottles of us. You've had to pay that right.
You've got that liability. Then through your trusted
networks, you're going to your distributors.
They buy it off you right, which you've added a margin to it and
that's fine. You can go that's me fine.
I got my money back and I've made a little bit on top of it.
But the problem is if you're in a situation where the whiskey
that the distributor's bought off you that's gone in, that's
been convinced to put it into a retailer or a bar.
Yeah, right. And it doesn't move.
Yeah, they will never come. The next thing you phone them up
and say, oh, I've got this stuff.
They go, no thanks, Howard, because the last stuff you gave
us, it didn't, it didn't shift. Yeah.
So then your models knackered on that front.
But from a positive point of view, you you, you sell 100
bottles and it goes like hotcakes and you've got the.
Distributor we need it like when.
Can we get more wine? That's all.
But that's the precarious because it's easy to forget
that, yeah, the consumers getting hit with a lot of the
price because you've got everyone's getting their margin
and they're cut and there's a cost involved.
But at the end of the day, you're the first person that has
to take the hat. Yeah.
So a number of the brands work with us on terms, yeah.
So that we might have 30 or 60 days, yeah, from from when we
buy the product. But when you think about how
long it takes to get the product from from Scotland to the US to
a distributor, it, it, we don't usually typically complete our
cycle before the the terms. So our one of the things that
we're working with and it's, it's a bit of an uphill fight is
the distributors in the US are all asking for terms as well.
So the distributors are might want between 30 and 60 days.
Yeah. So everyone, everyone wants that
buffer. Yeah.
So that they can suddenly go, well, I can have that sold by
the time that invoice needs to be paid, and that that helps.
But at the same time, if everyone does that, then there's
30 days here, 30 days there, and suddenly you're going back and
say, well, it's 90 days, someone's going to have to still
pay. Yeah.
So that's usually me, yeah. You're yeah, that, that and
that's the tricky bit, but I mean, exciting thing to be able
to start and to be able to see the see it growing.
Yeah, the pub is now starting to open, so we do get thirsty.
What's the second draft? Mention the second round and
just on this first round really with a bit of water, really,
really nice. I get that kind of sugar from
the rum. I get a bit of spiciness, a bit
of there is a bit of a kind of tequila taste.
I do think I get that. What I want Angus to do.
Lovely. But yeah, don't tell Angus this.
Right? I want Angus to read the label.
OK, pour yourself. We drop.
Okie Doke. Tell us what you think it is,
because the colour of that everything about it.
So explain it for the listeners who are listening what you have
in front of you. So I have it's a linquid.
Yeah. Year 2010, so presumably 16
years old. Right now, talk about the
colour. The colour, it's a yeah, it's a
kind of deep tea stained colour, yeah. 50 Watt course ABV. 53
point. Six quarter DRAM, so.
Looks to me, I mean if I was to be I would say a 16 year old
cherry cast. Right.
Or also something like. That it would be, yeah, that's
fair. That would be put this in my
glass. I will say Martin Armstrong
personally pulled that from the. Yeah, I should add you can, you
can tell that these have not been filtered.
These there's there's lovely wee bits of char.
And it's a lot, right? So I, I really enjoyed this DRAM
last night. Right.
Have a wee say that it's having a taste.
Angus, tell us what you think. Good.
What do you reckon? Yep, smells very nice.
Let me let me taste it. Proof of the puddings in the
eating right? Yeah.
That is delicious. That is absolutely delicious.
And it doesn't taste 53% either. It's one of these drams that
honestly tastes about 43%, right?
It's very sweet, very sweet, very fudgy.
Yeah. That's lovely, right?
Yeah, that's delicious. Tell us about that.
Tell us a bit more. What cast have we got?
Here. Yeah.
So this is Lyncwood. I bought it from Whiskey Broker
and so they had a good amount of history on it that Martin was
able to share with me. It was another, I was an
international buyer that had it. It was in three bourbon barrels.
1 was the longer maturation, he told me.
The next one they only like put in for 30 days, like kind of
like a tea bag. And then it went into a third
one where I've had it for the past several years and we've
been drawing samples. So this has been re racked 3
Times Now, yes? But in three different bourbon
barrels, so there's. No, Sherry, there's no.
Sherry whatsoever, but I mean, what a color, it's gone on the
color. On that, if you get a chance
for. A 16 year old that's only been
in bourbon. And Linkwood as.
Well, and and and the Berman cast were the all refills was
there Virgin Oak was there first fell do you know or do you?
Know I don't have that I. Don't have that, but but three
so that's been re racked 3 times into different and like you say,
one really long one just tea bag and then the next one is where
it's sitting right now and what a taste.
That's absolutely that's an incredible and that's going to
so that's your own cask as. Well, that's my cask.
Yeah, you're lucky. Thank you very much for giving
us bottle because please tell us when you're going to be putting
that in a glass for there for retail because that.
We might have to go over to the States to pick up a bottle grab.
Happily do that. But look, the pub is now open,
people are going to start flooding in.
We've been lucky enough to be here for a good hour and a half
beforehand enjoying our coffee, our drams and things.
But we are getting to the stage of the of the conversation where
we do ask our guests whether what 3 drams Howard.
So basically I did briefly, I think I breathe, yeah.
I couldn't remember this morning when I was working in last night
after the drams I had to go. Did I tell Howard?
I did a lot about the watch 3 drams.
But anyway, any 3 whiskeys that have a meaning, a story or an
association with? You Yeah.
So I could give 10 drams, but since the bar has to open up, we
we talked about the Glenn Farklas.
I thought for me that the Whiskey Exchange private
bottling was a milestone for me and in my life have having that.
Can you remember what age? Was there an age statement on
that bottle or was it just a Was it a whiskey exchange's own?
So it was a Glenn Farklas branded by the Whiskey Exchange.
Well, no, it was a it was a the Christmas Mall.
So the employee told me it was Glenn Farklas.
There he goes. So it's kind of like a stocking
filler that they do for my whiskey exchange.
The whiskey exchange. And this was about 2014, you
said? 2018 I want to say. 18, Yeah,
OK. So we need to look for that.
You'll maybe find that on an auction.
Somewhere I I did buy a second bottle on an auction.
Yeah. Oh.
Wow, that one. Broke that.
Maybe when you come to Florida, we'll we'll, we'll open that up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not maybe, when we come to
blood. So I think that was a milestone
for me. After the first time I came to
Scotland, I, I called up my, my current and favorite wife,
Melissa and only wife, if her folks are listening, and I told
you have to come here. It's, it's incredibly amazing
here. And, and so like we, we brought
our families. So we, we came back with, with
my, I brought my folks here. She brought her folks and we
were on the Isle of Skye and there was an evening that my
father and I were drinking Coleela in the sky.
And that was a very memorable DRAM for me.
And so I always have a fondness now for Coleela and I, I, I
Remember, Remember that night. That's right.
Can you? Remember what the bottle was of
Kalila? Was it just a Kalila 12 or?
I think it may have been an 18. Oh, yeah, yeah.
It was not. It was not an.
I mean, it was in the price was reasonable for what it was.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it just it's it's nice.
Kalila 18 is lovely. I'm actually starting to I'm
Ross will tell me I'm talking rubbish, but I am starting to
really come. We tried a few Kalilas yesterday
and I'm starting to cut there's. I really like Kalila.
I really like you get from my point of view.
People want to hear me talking about peat whiskey.
I think there's almost that like kind of coal-fired taste.
You get to coalila. It almost tastes a bit a bit
city. I get, I get, but in a nice way.
And if it's done, it would depend on the cast.
But I get like, sweet and sticky BBQ sauce.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like just Smokey BBQ.
BBQ. Yeah, really, really, really
nice, very nice. OK DRAM number 332.
Good drams already. I love the Ben Nevis distillery.
Yeah, and we don't get enough good Ben Nevis in the US.
It's a distillery that over here, I mean, well, maybe other
than Ross. It splits opinion.
Some people love it, some people hate it.
I love it personally. I love Ben.
Nevis So any affiliate just because it's something that you
can get in the States, but you don't often get an awful lot of
it so. We were talking about some cast
brokers and so Victoria through Vicki Bruce, I was able to
source it. What I think is a reasonable
price, a casket. Ben Nevis and I love Marsala and
it was first film Marsala and so I was able to to pull a DRAM out
of that and, and out of my cast that I was able to get.
And so that that I that would be my third.
Super Yeah, Marsala cast better. Than ever said that that would
be super. Heated.
Yeah. Oh wow.
Wow. Yeah, Now I'm interested how I'm
just, you know, on this front, you know, the journey that
you've been on. And obviously it's mental that a
year ago today we were sitting having breakfast.
I only just met you the night before and we've repeated it
last a year ago last night we were on drinking drabs.
Here we are this morning about malaria, having the same
conversations, but for yourself, what was it like when you, you
obviously take the hit? You know, you've got you've,
you've worked your way up into a massive position in a big
company. You've made the decision to go
yourself. You've promised your wife,
you're only going to have 333 businesses that you're going to
try and run at the same time. It's still your person, which is
great and along with that continued by the way, But when
you got you make the hit. So that moment where you've
gone, right, that's how much it's going to cost me and this
is how much I'm going to be liable for of investment.
When you got that first sale, when you've moved it to somebody
else is going, I'll take the hit on that.
I'll take the punt on you. Someone distributor's going to
have to go. I heard you before, mate, or I
don't really know you that well, never heard of these guys, but
I'll take the hit on you. What was that like?
And then seeing it move and then suddenly the realization was
this is working. Yeah, I mean, any sale feels
fantastic. Yeah.
And so when you, when you complete the sale and, and when
you, you have a, you have a good account that, that you can scale
up, it's just, it's sitting it, it, there's a thrill to, to be
able to do that and, and to be able to, to build something.
And and and so that I don't unless you've done it, you, you
can't really explain the adrenaline.
One moment, nice to be here as well.
Absolutely fantastic. Howard, thank you so much for
coming on. How can people find you?
How can people keep in touch? And if there's anyone in the
States that wants to keep in touch or find out what's the
best ways to get so? The best way for for consumers
to get in touch with us is to follow us at Scotch Drinkers
only that's that's our. That's on Instagram.
That's on Instagram and, and some other platforms and you
have Scotch drinkersonly.com as well.
I recommend everyone sign up for the mailing list.
We try to give the mailing list customers a heads up when things
are coming to a retailer so that the bottles that they want can
be shipped to the retailer and they can they can get, you know,
access to the good stuff. So if if you want, you know, for
instance, we had a killed Alton that came in that 19 years
fantastic. We have we had a limited amount
of Rulati 20 year cash strength's been super popular
and things like that that are maybe getting less than four
cases for the entire country. I'd get on that mailing list and
and try to get access. And then brands.
If there's anyone who listens to this, it's going right.
I want my brand on a shelf in America.
How do they get in touch with you?
What do they do? Come through me and I'll get my.
Cut. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
We'll give you a buffet. Yeah.
So Sax Dynamic Operations is the name of our importer company.
It's a long name. We might want to shorten that.
But so they can get in touch with me either through through
the website at saxdynamicoperations.com or
through through LinkedIn, they can connect with me.
Happy to have a conversation with with any, any, any brands,
but looking for things that that are going to be additive and the
economics work in the US market. Really.
I guess what are you looking forward to most this afternoon
when we get down to leaf to go to our to the festival?
I'm just looking forward to seeing who's there are.
You going to look out anything? Are you going to?
I don't know. Are you going to approach this
from a different point of view? I don't know if I have anything
in particular I'm looking out for.
I saw a post on Thompson Brothers put up a post of things
to look out for at the festival and I thought I maybe take a
screenshot of that and I forgot to do that.
So I'm, I'm actually not really approaching this from any point
of view, but I'm just looking forward to seeing people there,
meeting people we've had on the podcast, people that we know,
people that we've maybe never met before.
You know, as much as these are a kind of whiskey event for us,
they've almost become a big social.
Event as well. So I'm looking forward to that
side of things and I'm sure, just listen, I'm sure it's one
of those ones that when we get there, I'm sure other people
will be recommending, oh, go to that stall because you need to
try their 15 year old, what have you, or go to that stall because
you need to try there. I'm just going to look for the
most expensive and the oldest that's.
Well, that's a good no. No, I'm going to do this has got
me on today. My focus is going to be on
refill, bourbon, refill. That's all I'm looking for
today. That's all I'm going to look
for. I'm just going to go refill
bourbon. I'm going to try and find that
PETA don't mind it. Age don't care about I'm just
going to the wine stuff and the wine casks and things.
The sherries, no, I'm going to try and steer clear of them
unless I get a full recommendation.
What I really want to dive my nose into today is refill
bourbon. Howard, what are you?
What are you, how are you attacking this today?
Are you, are you going to support brands that you're
already working with? But are you also just looking
for new things as well? Yeah, I'm going to first and
foremost, so I don't I don't get in trouble with with my social
media manager. I'm going to have to take some,
some good social media videos from our current suppliers.
But last year I found and Bartels and Living Souls like I
mentioned. So I'm going to see who's got
some interesting things, who's got some energy and, you know,
maybe, maybe you know, we'll find the next great brand there.
Absolutely. Well, in the meantime, it's
breakfast. It's time for breakfast.
Thank you very much for coming along.
Howard, thank you for having. I thank you for the big thanks
to Kevin, Clair and Diggers for allowing us to sit here whilst
they've been getting the pub ready because it's going to be a
busy day. It's been absolutely fantastic.
You've been listening to Whiskey Stories podcast, It's great to
great to hear from you. Please get in touch, get in
touch with Howard, message us if you're over in the States, tell
us that you know, Howard, tell us where you're drinking.
Tell us whatever you can possibly do.
Give us five stars. Get involved in the Facebook
group, get involved in our social media, get in on the
Instagram, everything like that. Angus, we've done it again.
All the very best. Cheers, Langeva.
So that's the that's the rehearsal done.
Now what we do is we go downstairs and do the whole
thing again, blow it.