1 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:16,200 Welcome to Pichitumi Podcast, a show about the subjective past, 2 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,600 present and potential future of flesh and blood design. 3 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:21,920 Where every card is special in its own way. 4 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,640 Today's episode will be about hero specializations on red 5 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,200 pitch. Clark asks why is this a 6 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,240 specialization on yellow pitch? Joel will read between the lines 7 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,240 on specializations and on blue pitch. 8 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,440 Fuzzy analyzes why some heroes get special treatment. 9 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,600 You can find us across all socials such as Blue Sky, TikTok 10 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,160 and Instagram at Pitch It to Me podcast. 11 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:01,880 I'm fuzzy. I'm Joel. 12 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:07,880 And I am Sparta. And that's Clark. 13 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,000 So this is our first banked episode, quote UN quote, 14 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:15,440 recorded in January and released whenever we feel like it being 15 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,640 released. Probably the first time we got 16 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:19,640 busy and didn't record an episode for this week. 17 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,360 Yeah, we've discovered after a year and a half of being flesh 18 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,280 and blood podcasters that sometimes there's a big event 19 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,120 that us flesh and blood players want to go participate in and 20 00:01:29,320 --> 00:01:32,000 that makes it hard to do. Flesh and blood podcasts, or 21 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,720 even like a wedding. Or like a vacation? 22 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:40,200 Or like literally not podcasting every single week. 23 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,280 So part of our 2025 New Year's resolution for the podcast has 24 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,240 been like actually record some episodes in advance. 25 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:46,800 So that way they're ready to go when we get them out. 26 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,760 You know, something we've talked about doing for a long time and 27 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:51,560 something we're hopefully actually doing now. 28 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:57,520 So the farther away from January 4th you hear this, the better 29 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:02,080 this has been in practice. For this episode, we want to 30 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:06,160 return to a lot of the origin of why we started this podcast 31 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,639 talking about those base design elements that flesh and blood 32 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,280 does differently and special from other TC GS. 33 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,880 And so we sort of took a look at some of the fundamental design 34 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,360 elements of the game. And one that we sort of never 35 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,600 really talked about before and I don't see a lot of people 36 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,040 talking about are hero specializations. 37 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,680 So we dedicate an entire episode to it. 38 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,800 Yeah, imagine you're making a trading card game and you have 39 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:33,960 to structure what cards are allowed in what decks. 40 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,800 Specializations are key to that structure, to how flesh and 41 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,200 blood works. So we can talk for it about an 42 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,880 entire episode. So Hero specializations are 43 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,880 cards that only a named hero can use. 44 00:02:44,920 --> 00:02:47,600 For instance, Arc, like Sentinel, has prison 45 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,720 specializations so that only heroes named Prism can use that 46 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,080 card. Yeah, it doesn't matter if they 47 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:57,680 are the OG Prism or the new Prism either. 48 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,560 Prism hero, even though they have different card texts, are 49 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:04,400 both Prism heroes and therefore both can play Arclight Sentinel. 50 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:10,000 Let's jump into my red pitch. Why is this a specialization? 51 00:03:10,920 --> 00:03:15,040 When we talk about why specific cards get the specialization 52 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,920 treatment, it's a hard conversation because a lot of 53 00:03:18,920 --> 00:03:22,120 the times it barely matters that it's a specialization. 54 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,120 A lot of the time, at least a lot of the time, it feels that 55 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:26,840 way. Like in the in the example we 56 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,320 brought up in turn 0, Prism's the only Light illusionist, so 57 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,160 she's the only one that can play Arclight Sentinel even though it 58 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,040 says they're on the card. Only Prism can play it. 59 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,120 There's no other contenders. There's no other people that are 60 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:41,880 like ah Dang, it says Prism specialization so I can't use it 61 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:44,920 if anything. Sorry that was about to jump 62 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,240 topics to Shiana for a second. We're gonna talk about Shiana at 63 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,040 all. I think we at least have to 64 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,520 mention her at some point, and it's going to be a tangent that 65 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:54,760 completely derailed the. Episode I was about to do it on. 66 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,080 The first bullet point, it's gonna extend the extend the 67 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,120 pitch by like 5 minutes. A lot of the times it barely 68 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,560 matters. And then also when people use 69 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,440 online deck builders like February or they look at things 70 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,240 like fabric, it's only going to include the cards that you can 71 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,240 play in your deck. So you don't think about the 72 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,880 cards that like, could have been playable if they didn't have 73 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:16,600 this one line of text on it, right? 74 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:18,160 Yeah. Like, is it worth it to think 75 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,360 about playing Crippling Crush in Victor if you can never play 76 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,400 Crippling Crush in Victor to begin with? 77 00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:27,120 Yeah, stop thinking about it. Yeah, listener, stop thinking 78 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:31,560 about crippling crush in Victor. But one thing that I believe 79 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:36,240 specializations do is that they help create clear definitions of 80 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:40,480 play patterns for heroes. Ellie Bird actually just put out 81 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:47,640 a really great tweet in January where she said like one of the 82 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,160 best things about flesh and blood is how invested people get 83 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:54,800 into heroes and hero designs and they become, they identify with 84 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,720 the hero designs. Specializations are all about 85 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,760 helping define the hero and give them a unique mechanical 86 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:05,960 identity that is just for them, that is special for them. 87 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,240 And I think that's really important, right? 88 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:12,160 Dory uses Dawn Blade because a lot of Dory specializations say 89 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,200 the word Dawn Blade on them. I want to play Dory. 90 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,880 So you go to the little search bar and you type in Dory and you 91 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,280 see cards that pop up that say Dory on it. 92 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:22,680 And then some of those Dory cards say Dawn Blade. 93 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:24,560 And you go, oh, I should run Dawn Blade. 94 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,640 And Dory becomes the Dawn Blade hero in that moment, right? 95 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,520 It's a very clear, linear way, saying this is the core identity 96 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,880 of the hero and how we intend to build and play her. 97 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,160 You can find other strategies, right? 98 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:42,200 Hatchet's story is still strong, but Dom Blade is the identity 99 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,880 for Dory. And at the risk of bringing this 100 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,280 up, for every bullet point, there are also like counter 101 00:05:47,280 --> 00:05:49,520 examples. It's like specializations have a 102 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,640 lot of ways they can be used, a lot of ways they can add to the 103 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,920 game, even though they're like very hard structured way of 104 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,400 organizing the game. You know, like there's certainly 105 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,000 specializations that can think of that do not give you a game 106 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:02,240 plan. You can build your plan around, 107 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,200 you know, Oh. Yeah, like there are other ways 108 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,720 that they have learned to use specializations, but I think 109 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:12,680 that was especially how they designed early specializations. 110 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:18,880 So it's a signal to players, play this card, this card is 111 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:20,480 good. This card is for your hero. 112 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,120 Play it. We designed it specifically for 113 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:24,800 them. It is all special and neat and 114 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:29,640 gift wrapped for them. So it's actually I think a 115 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,640 really good idea that when you first start building a new hero, 116 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,120 to look at what the specializations for that hero 117 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:38,680 are and really start to get an idea of what is strong about 118 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:40,440 this hero. What is this hero trying to do? 119 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:42,080 Like plan A? Yes. 120 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:46,320 But you're right, fuzzy, there's lots of different reasons why 121 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:50,360 things are made specializations. I think one of them is cycles. 122 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,200 So something that I've noticed recently is that when they give 123 00:06:54,280 --> 00:07:00,440 a specialization in a way to one hero in a set, it's also given 124 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,480 to other heroes in the headset the same way. 125 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:08,600 LSS really enjoys making these cycles and these patterns, and I 126 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,480 love it too, right? Like my little ADHD brain goes, 127 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:19,920 Oh yes, pattern recognition. And I think that it's important 128 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:25,360 for things to be a part of a cycle because it helps give them 129 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,120 all shared identity, and it helps with set identity as well, 130 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,080 right? A great example of this is in 131 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:36,360 heavy hitters. All of the heroes got a uncommon 132 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:41,680 headpiece specialization. Which was also kind of unique in 133 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,560 and of itself because I don't think we saw specializations. 134 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,840 Well, we had the a couple rare ones from Monarch, right? 135 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:54,280 Yes, salt harvests is a rare and herald of judgement. 136 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,280 Once they all got one. Yeah, but they're not like 137 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,720 equipment slots, I think is what Clark is trying to get at, Yeah. 138 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,400 Well, no, no, no, I mean like it, it's good, right, like, but 139 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,360 the point is that I see them regularly do cycles. 140 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,720 I mean, even the Monarch 1 is a great shout to this, right? 141 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,880 They all got a rare cycle of specialization cards. 142 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,680 And so I think that that is actually I don't is Bolton's a 143 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:23,120 rare B is via specialization. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 144 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,760 So they they like all got a rare specialization and. 145 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:29,040 Like when you have three kids, you have to give them all a 146 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,320 Christmas present. Very much so. 147 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,559 Yep. Going to the origin of the game, 148 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:37,880 we can look at the Welcome to Rate specializations and how 149 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,039 they're all tutors. Actually, I'm so sorry, 150 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:44,320 technically the 1st two sets all have tutor specializations. 151 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:45,920 Yeah, so the first two sets, right. 152 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,360 It's not even welcome to Ray. It's also includes Arcane 153 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:50,520 Rising. Like specializations were the 154 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:52,760 tutors for those heroes originally. 155 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,880 And it's interesting because we talked about tutors in an 156 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,080 episode way, way back when in 2024. 157 00:08:59,560 --> 00:09:04,240 And we were like, yeah, so cool. Like all the classes got a got a 158 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,040 tutor. We didn't even talk about how 159 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,840 all those tutors are technically hero specializations. 160 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,520 I think that's really, really fascinating, right? 161 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,400 The idea of creating these things in cycles is something 162 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:19,480 that has been foundational to flesh and blood. 163 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:23,520 Why do you guys think that is? Well, basically my answer is 2 164 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,720 parts. One, because it's kind of cool. 165 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:27,760 We love the patterns. You mentioned this before. 166 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,520 I think literally it gives trading card players a little 167 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,120 bit of a :) on the inside. When they see that they 168 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,240 recognize the pattern. They're like, oh, they all got 169 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,000 one at rare or they all got a funny hat. 170 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,280 It's. Cute. 2nd to that, I think it's 171 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,200 also about favoritism. Trading card players, especially 172 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,960 in flesh and blood, get attached to their certain hero. 173 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,040 So when a new hero, even if it's the first time they got seen in 174 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,320 that set right, they're excited to play with that card. 175 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,400 If your hero didn't get one, you better believe that the other 176 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,520 heroes didn't get one either, or else you're the kid who didn't 177 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,360 get a Christmas present even though everyone else did. 178 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,080 Yeah, even in Heavy, a set where we talk about there being 179 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,720 winners and losers in the hero releases. 180 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,920 Yeah, very much so. Still, the vein of like, well, 181 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,200 everyone got this, a headpiece specialization. 182 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,320 Where's my hat? Yeah, you don't want to be the 183 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,160 guy without a hat. And interestingly enough, I 184 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,120 think Victor got the worst hat, but that's because Victor also 185 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,160 got the legendary shield arm Aegis. 186 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,280 Yeah, he got a bonus spec. He is the favorite. 187 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:36,560 He he was the favorite from that set, but they made his shared 188 00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:40,200 specialization the worst. Well, did everyone get a a 189 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,040 specialization outside the headpiece? 190 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:43,520 Because. They all got a majestic 191 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:44,720 specialization. As well. 192 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,320 So maybe he's not like Onoz is legendary, right? 193 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:52,600 Armagus is legendary, but then he also got the four costs that 194 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,120 can sack of gold for the +3 and overpowered golden son. 195 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:57,160 Man. So he also got golden Son. 196 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,480 So he got 3 specializations. Everyone else in heavy only got 197 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:01,840 2. But his headpiece specialization 198 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,400 is objectively the worst. No one runs that fucking card. 199 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,440 Like I don't even think in Commodore people run that card 200 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,960 maybe as A2 block but like the effect is really bad. 201 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:17,160 I would I would wager that Kasai or you would wager I would I 202 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,600 would get wager Kasai. RKO have some of the worst ones 203 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,800 cuz what is golden glow? You block with one yellow card, 204 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:24,360 get a gold. If you block with two yellows, 205 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,760 get a gold. You have to have two yellows in 206 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,280 hand when you want to block with the headpiece as well. 207 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:31,840 Yeah, it's pretty bad. It's pretty rough. 208 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:39,240 Like I've I've seen Kasai's run the the hood I've I even in 209 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,400 budget lists I've never seen a Victor run the run Golden glare. 210 00:11:45,560 --> 00:11:50,200 The last reason why I think LSS makes things specializations is 211 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,200 because James White in his infinite wisdom said so. 212 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:00,120 Like I, I think there is something to be said for like a 213 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,080 specialization being just for a specific hero of a specific 214 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,080 name. And then when they LL they may 215 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,400 not want that strategy or that ability around anymore. 216 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,040 And I think that is actually something that only really James 217 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:15,600 knows. Like I don't even think the rest 218 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,600 of the dev team is really aware of the like 20 year plan that 219 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,560 James White had when he first made this game. 220 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,000 For me it's less about power level right? 221 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:30,200 And it's more about saying, well, next time we print Light 222 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,440 warrior, we might want to build it around different mechanics or 223 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,360 we might want to shift the perspective. 224 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,400 And this is me specifically thinking about what they just 225 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:42,760 did in Rosetta with Briar and how they then split Briar into 226 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,320 an earth room blade and a lightning room blade. 227 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,000 That neither of them really existing in Briar's space as it 228 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,560 were doing the same things that Briar did. 229 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,120 Both of them feel very distinctly different, even 230 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,160 though they were supposed to be the print, right? 231 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,560 So I think specializations can be a way to say, well, here's 232 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:06,480 this play pattern. And then in the future, if we 233 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:10,800 return to it and don't go down that route, we can print other 234 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,240 things for them. And this won't have to be a 235 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,720 carryover or a holdover in that regard. 236 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:22,120 We've never had one of the original 8 heroes LL, but there 237 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,720 is a chance that when they LL, they print a different hero with 238 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:27,800 a different name back into that slot. 239 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,440 And it's important that they then don't get access to things 240 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,560 like Lesson in Lava, Knock the Death Whistle, become the Ark 241 00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:36,080 Knight. Those are really, really 242 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:40,720 powerful effects that maybe they don't want on those future 243 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,160 heroes. And while I was doing research 244 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:48,720 for this, I found something out in the release set. 245 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:53,240 For every single CC hero, they have had a specialization. 246 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:58,320 Every CC hero has been released with a specialization except 247 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,960 Mist Veil. What the fuck happened with Mist 248 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:03,960 Veil? Why did they not get any 249 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,560 specializations? That's weird, right? 250 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,720 Like even Arachne in Dynasty got regicide. 251 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:13,880 Even Arachne got a specialization. 252 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:20,440 What is going on in this veil? Yeah, I I was thinking about 253 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:22,400 that too. And one of the thoughts that 254 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:27,320 came to mind was I wonder if some specializations are like so 255 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,080 obvious that they don't need to be specializations. 256 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:34,640 And I'll talk a bit more about that in my pitch, but like all 257 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,920 of them are very centered around, you know, it's the 258 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,200 sacred with like the crouching tiger fucking Fang strike and 259 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,560 slither specific new and spectral Shields for enigma. 260 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:50,640 And I don't think Mystic is a class that they like necessarily 261 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,920 have to return to in general, But I also think like we could 262 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,560 see completely different classes because they're so and they 263 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:00,960 share so many different cards in that same card pool. 264 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,560 Like the sacred arts could just be like they don't have to be 265 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,760 specializations because it'll there's no worry about using 266 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:08,440 them in other classes in the future. 267 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,760 Yeah, sure. I mean, the counter to that is 268 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:15,080 that they've put specialization on things like that in the past, 269 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,120 right? A lot of these talented heroes, 270 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:19,520 Arclight Sentinel was the example we started this pitch 271 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,200 off with. They would exist almost in the 272 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,360 same space. And also Joel, what you're 273 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,800 suggesting I don't think LSS would do because they promised 274 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,760 that every card will always be playable, they will always 275 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,760 reprint something. So even if these 3 Mystic heroes 276 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:38,960 LL, they will print another Mystic ninja war ninja assassin 277 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:43,160 illusionist. I got there, I remembered. 278 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:45,640 I don't know. I want to agree with what Joel 279 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:47,920 is saying. You know that it's possible that 280 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,360 they have no intention to ever return to the Mystic talent, at 281 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:52,840 least for these specific classes. 282 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,040 I could see it being like, it was really strong the last time 283 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,640 we returned. It'll be really hard for us to 284 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,880 honor that design space as we returned again, and these heroes 285 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:03,680 will always be playable in Living Legend. 286 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:09,640 I think one thing that's true now that wasn't true in the past 287 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,760 is that Living Legend has a lot more players on it. 288 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:14,680 It has a lot more presence in the community. 289 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,760 So it's a lot more reasonable to say like your collection is not 290 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:20,200 useless. You just have to go play a 291 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,520 different format. You know, we know you invested 292 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:24,840 in this hero, you love this hero, you want to play this 293 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,760 hero, but you can't anymore. Well, you can still go to Living 294 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:29,920 Legend. You don't have to like wait for 295 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,600 your hero to be reprinted again because it might not happen. 296 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,080 Like I think that could be a reasonable shift in their 297 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:40,800 stance. For my last point here, I think 298 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,760 that certain cards are also specializations because it 299 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,680 allows them to print cards for specific formats. 300 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:52,680 This was most apparent with young heroes and when they first 301 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,000 printed young heroes with specializations. 302 00:16:55,200 --> 00:17:00,760 These are our Benji's, our KO Berserker Runt, these are our 303 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,240 Kasai, right? They've since printed adult 304 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,640 heroes, I think because they looked at that print strategy of 305 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:12,000 young only heroes and didn't like it, and they saw a big push 306 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,640 from the community to bring those heroes into CC. 307 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,800 So they did, but it's caused problems. 308 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,880 Twice now we've had LSS confirmed that they wanted to 309 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:28,400 give a hero design a different name, but couldn't because of 310 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,320 the specialization that they had. 311 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:35,480 A-IO was supposed to be Data Doll originally, but 312 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,280 Microprocessor was just way too strong of a card in CC. 313 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,040 Similarly, Zen was supposed to be Benji, but they were 314 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,360 struggling designing around Wander with Purpose and Spring 315 00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:52,680 Tidings, so that seems rough. If it's getting in the way of 316 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,280 design to print these heroes into other formats, why not just 317 00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:00,520 ban those specialization cards in the specific format? 318 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:04,920 Why not just ban microprocessor when dated all comes out and 319 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,000 give her a new specialization in the set? 320 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,160 Yeah, they've certainly done preemptive bands before, like 321 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,480 Stubby Hammers with Phi specifically in Blitz and then 322 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,720 later in CC because it was just so absurdly broken. 323 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,080 Paired with Art of War, I could see them doing the same thing 324 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,080 for some of these specializations that they find 325 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,240 so hard to build around. They've done it before, they can 326 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,240 do it again. Yeah, but I think they don't 327 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:31,760 want to because, back to my original point, specializations 328 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,480 are supposed to be core to how you play a hero. 329 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:40,000 I think they really, really want to avoid banning specialization 330 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:45,120 cards because they are supposed to be how the hero plays. 331 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:50,280 And by saying well we made it a little too strong or overpowered 332 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,800 is actually not really something that they want to be signaling I 333 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:55,320 think to the player base or community. 334 00:18:55,600 --> 00:19:00,840 I think they want to deliver on the fantasy of the Hero of the 335 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,960 Class slash class talent combo through the specialization 336 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:09,040 cards, and when you have to ban one to do that, it's not a good 337 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,120 look. So I think LSS is really going 338 00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:13,160 to have to struggle to get their adult date at all and their 339 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:18,240 adult Benji into CC while still maintaining these cards that 340 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,640 they designed to only be good when everyone has 20 life. 341 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,920 But if they're able to figure it out, then I think that the game 342 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,040 will be healthier and better for it because these specializations 343 00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:32,840 didn't get banned. All right. 344 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:34,960 Thanks, Clark. Joe, what do you have for yellow 345 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:36,800 pitch? So my section is titled 346 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:41,800 Specializations are the future. And obviously like whatever the 347 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,120 specialization has printed will give information about like what 348 00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:47,120 the hero's primary intended archetype is. 349 00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:50,520 Clark's talked about like your identity and how specializations 350 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,240 sort of lock these heroes into those identities. 351 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,160 But what I find interesting about specialization is like 352 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,720 what they don't tell you what's not on the card and what 353 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,400 archetype they're maybe saving for another hero down the line 354 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:08,280 or in the same like talent slash or the same talent slash class 355 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:12,320 combo. And my first example is Luminous 356 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,280 Ascension with Bolton. And it got me thinking because 357 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,440 I've heard a lot of discourse about like. 358 00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:22,520 Bolton's being held back specifically because of Luminous 359 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,960 Ascension and should just be banned along with like Beacon 360 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,480 and Victory which is not a spec but just a good card. 361 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,920 And it makes me think like the next Light Warrior will either 362 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,760 be a Bolton 2 point O or it could be a completely different 363 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:36,360 one. Because they won't have access 364 00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:39,640 to Luminous ascension, they would be relegated towards like 365 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:43,560 attack Action focus rather than weapon focus like Bolton is with 366 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,480 Raiden. Yeah, I would love to see a 367 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,400 future where there's another Light Warrior printed and we get 368 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,400 to see the interplay between the new Light Warrior as well as 369 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,120 what old support Bolton can get from the new set. 370 00:20:56,120 --> 00:20:58,800 Kind of like how we're seeing with Florian and Aurora right 371 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,520 now and Viscerae, you know, like Viscerae getting the extra 372 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,720 support. It feels like not only have we 373 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,200 have 4 new heroes, but also we get to have extra play with the 374 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:14,000 previous ones, and Bolton as a very siloed talented hero is 375 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,280 getting a lot less opportunities to see new cards. 376 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,400 So it feels like if we want to see the light Warrior space 377 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:23,120 expand, it's got to specifically be Light Warrior. 378 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,120 That's what you were saying? Just made me think of Joel. 379 00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:29,480 And it also feels like the specializations are a promise 380 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,200 right? That there will be no reason to 381 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,200 silo these behind the specialization keyword unless we 382 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,320 were going to see more Light Warrior in the future, you know? 383 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,000 Yeah. And I think one of the biggest 384 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,600 issues with Bolton specifically is he's the 1st Warrior to 385 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,880 incorporate attack actions within the Warrior class. 386 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,960 And because of that, you're kind of contending with both weapon 387 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:56,160 synergy and attacks attack action synergy that we won't get 388 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:00,200 to see iterated on very much until Bolton LLS and, you know, 389 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,440 after he gets to a point where you can get LL points. 390 00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:09,360 They've shown both strategies where they are willing to print 391 00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:13,360 the hero with the exact same name Prism, and they want to 392 00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:15,560 print someone with a completely different name chain and 393 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:16,800 vincette. Right? 394 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:21,640 So I guess what are you guys are saying is because so much of 395 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,840 Bolton's power level is in his specializations, but the general 396 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,640 carpool needs so much help and a reimagining that they would 397 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,600 specifically not reprint Bolton so to allow themselves the 398 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,120 design space to play with light warrior. 399 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:38,160 Yeah, kinda. I think that's one rap that 400 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,800 could go with it. Yeah, I think in order to 401 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,760 reiterate on the like attack, attack action side of Bolton, 402 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,760 because his here ability specifically says charge, we're 403 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:50,400 gonna be stuck on charge until he's gone. 404 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,760 And then if he LLS, the next light warrior will either have 405 00:22:54,760 --> 00:23:00,120 to go back into the same place as Bolton or a new light 406 00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:02,400 warrior. And then we can reiterate on 407 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,960 attack actions what it means to get value from charging, if 408 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:07,480 there is gonna be charging, things like that. 409 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,720 There's just a lot of open ending questions with Bolton 410 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,520 specifically that I think. And that's what makes his 411 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:16,960 specialization interesting to me. 412 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,840 Yeah. The next combination I was 413 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:24,360 thinking of when typing out the notes was rise up and red Hot 414 00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:27,040 with Droma and Phi. And this might be a little bit 415 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,560 of ground fruit because we know what the next iteration of 416 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,240 Draconic is. And with red Hot specifically, 417 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,040 like we've talked about how Draconic has very, very weak 418 00:23:36,120 --> 00:23:37,800 class identity or talent identity. 419 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,400 And that's part of why red hot specifically says if you reveal 420 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,680 Draconic car to deal damage. Conversely, with is it Rise Up, 421 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:50,720 that Rise Up does Phoenix Flames OK, but with Rise Up, it's 422 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:52,200 specifically it says Phoenix Flames. 423 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,360 So we can kind of assume that through looking at this 424 00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:59,000 specialization with Phi and with Dromi, Phoenix Flames won't 425 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,640 appear in the next Draconic set. And we see that now with Syndra 426 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,320 and Fang with no mention of Phoenix Flames whatsoever. 427 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,160 We can kind of assume that neither neither one of them will 428 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,320 use Phoenix flames. But that's sort of like the 429 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,880 deductions that I would make from specializations, especially 430 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,760 when the talented heroes of LL and we're sort of waiting on the 431 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,520 next iteration. Rise Up and Red Hot are also 432 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:25,400 fascinating because they are Dromi and five specializations. 433 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,160 They are shared between the two heroes, and you can see 434 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,000 arguments for why you know one of them might be better than the 435 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,440 other. I think that's cool. 436 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,480 Definitely and then lastly, you know, stick with me on this one. 437 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:45,040 I think Doomsday and blasted fed like Levi consume slash Levi 438 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:50,680 redeemed is another example of what we can expect out of the 439 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,520 future of flesh and blood because based on these 440 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,920 specializations, I think we could never see another shadow 441 00:24:57,920 --> 00:24:59,920 brute. Like it might just be iterations 442 00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:01,760 of Leviah down the line. Yeah. 443 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:06,320 And that's because Doomsday is also like a moment in the lore 444 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,560 and her specialization, you know, Blasafed, Leviah consumed 445 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,920 and Leviah redeemed. While it is a great card, I 446 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,880 think there's a lot more lower implications that make it a 447 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,400 Leviah specialization and not a shadow brute like card. 448 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,280 Like similar to Shadow realm horror. 449 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:26,000 That makes me think that, you know, there's a lot more lore to 450 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,920 be unlocked with this card and also locks down what's possible 451 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,760 for the evolution of shadow brew as a whole. 452 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:38,560 Especially because mechanically these cards care about stacking 453 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,000 blood dent and that might not be a play pattern they want to 454 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,600 return to at a later date. You know, it could just be Levi 455 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,920 specific. It's so interesting because I 456 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,720 mentioned in Red Pitch about how a lot of the times it is about 457 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,360 hero identity. That identity is not just 458 00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:57,000 mechanical identity, it's also lore and storytelling identity. 459 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,200 And So what you're sort of pointing out here is like these 460 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,160 specializations are telling the story of the hero as it 461 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,760 progresses. I think Visserie had something 462 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:11,360 very similar happened throughout in 2024 where we were getting 463 00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:14,800 these expansion slot cards that sort of showed Visserie going 464 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:19,080 through Eraphiel and just being like, oh, pretty landscape. 465 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,160 Oh, pretty landscape, what's going on over here? 466 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,360 What's going on over there? And it's like, what are you 467 00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:26,200 doing? Where are you going, my God? 468 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,640 But it, it helps tell their story, right? 469 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,840 Specifically for the hero. Yeah, and in that way, some play 470 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,320 patterns are I feel like are just going to be hero locked, 471 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:40,920 like the way that Dory wields the Dom blade after she LLS. 472 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,640 You know, it's kind of interesting, something I didn't 473 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,920 say in your pitch, Clark, but the way that they silo these 474 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,240 designs, it could be to strengthen the lore behind the 475 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,800 heroes, but it also could be like, they saw what this 476 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,680 archetype did in the meta and they're like, OK, now we have 477 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,720 the freedom to kind of move away from this. 478 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,200 And we know that these specific cards, especially if they're 479 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,440 specializations, will never be abused again if we don't want it 480 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,280 to. And that way they can print like 481 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:14,120 the next line of warriors that wield the Dom blade or go in a 482 00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:16,840 completely different direction with like axes or whatever. 483 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,560 And they can't really use like, you know, Steel Blade Supremacy 484 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,160 to draw a card after every like dagger hit for instance. 485 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,640 I actually have something interesting here. 486 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,400 I kind of want to combine what you're saying about Bolton and 487 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,640 what we were just saying here about Durinthia in terms of like 488 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,920 storytelling moving forward. Could you ever see a world where 489 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,320 like Durinthia becomes the new Light warrior and like the Dawn 490 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,680 blade truly becomes the Dawn blade and becomes the light 491 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,920 Warrior weapon? It's sort of giving an evolution 492 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,960 and letting these specializations follow Dawnblade 493 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:56,520 into a light warrior space even though they are warrior only 494 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,560 cards. I think there's like, there's so 495 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:04,760 much like tension between Bolton being the light hero and 496 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,200 Durinthia being like the next like obvious pick for a light 497 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,240 hero that you could like cut it with a knife, like how obvious 498 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,960 it is, you know what I mean? So I could definitely see 499 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,640 Durinthia being the new Light Warrior and how the Durinthia 500 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,600 specializations paired with like the light worry cards and. 501 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,280 Could you also imagine Lumina ascension on a Dawn Blade build? 502 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,400 I could, and I'm glad that it's a Bolton specialization because 503 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,000 that would be stupid, yeah. Like I, I think that really sort 504 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,920 of nicely shows maybe why some of these specializations are 505 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,320 landing where they're landing and how they can give us signals 506 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,320 into future design spaces and story beats as LSS moves 507 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,680 forward. This is a little off topic here 508 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,880 but it's interesting that you mentioned Dory becoming the new 509 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,800 next Light warrior because like that design space is going to be 510 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,600 intention for like all the original 4 heroes. 511 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,280 They feel like they could be they would be talented if they 512 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,240 were printed today. You know like Bravo in lore is 513 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,400 from Arya which is why he's the one that got reprinted as Bravo 514 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,240 star of the show. You know, like he's one with the 515 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,280 flow that like gives them the element to energy. 516 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,720 This right is very connected to. Erathiel the the Ratherly 517 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,720 Monastery like in lore, like he is shadow but he's not in 518 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,240 because when they were printing them they weren't printing 519 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,640 talents at that time. You know, Dory's the same way 520 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,200 with the Monarch, like dudes right now. 521 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,000 OK, so that's much fun. But but Katsu is. 522 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,800 From He's from Mysterio. He's green. 523 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,320 The green talent. But Katsu is from Mysteria, you 524 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,000 know, he could easily be Mystic if you're yeah, I guess I'm in 525 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,560 my head this or I was in welcome to rage and Radar wasn't. 526 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,280 I'm like, I count 4. That means welcome. 527 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,880 Yeah. So my last point for this pitch, 528 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,040 I think conversely, while we're doing this analysis of 529 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,280 specializations, I could, I think it could also be like as 530 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,760 simple as I forgot to put it on there, but you get the idea. 531 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,920 And this sort of example is like the number one is Spirit of 532 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,040 Arena. Like it's not a bolted 533 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,280 specialization, but on the text it says you can play luminous 534 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,240 ascension at instant speed and luminous ascension is a bolted. 535 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,200 Yeah. So it's like, why wasn't this a 536 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,880 specialization? Could it be like a logistical 537 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:14,840 flaw? I don't know. 538 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,600 But like there are there are cars where I'm like, what, what 539 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,120 happened here if there's so much flavor everywhere else? 540 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,600 Yeah, that's kind of like Lord of Wind is a Katsu 541 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,320 specialization, and it only works if you play it with 542 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,560 another Katsu specialization against you release, you know, 543 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,880 so they didn't really have to make Lord of Wind a 544 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,200 specialization because there would be no reason to put it in 545 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:37,080 your deck. Right, right. 546 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,440 So there's like a little, you know, a lot of examples of 547 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,240 redundancy. Also with Reelin and Plan for 548 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,200 the Worst, those are not Riptide specializations. 549 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,840 But I cannot see a world where other heroes would be playing 550 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,640 that to great effect if you're not Riptide. 551 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,400 Unless we see like the Ranger design go somewhere else where 552 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,080 like it can be a bit more mid rangey and like use traps as 553 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,320 like their defensive cards. Yeah, could be interesting. 554 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,320 Definitely. I think there's a lot of 555 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,640 iteration left for Rangers, so I could see that being the case. 556 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,480 So yeah, that's my two cents on, you know, the implications. 557 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,280 Reading between lines of specializations. 558 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,360 That's stuff I think about, in case you're wondering, Like what 559 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,800 goes on in my mind. I thought that your pitch was 560 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,440 really fun, Joel, because it pretends that we can understand 561 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,440 what LSS is thinking based on like which cards are made 562 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,920 specializations or not. Because really, I don't think we 563 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:25,840 have that much of A clue. Like, who knows what they're 564 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:27,960 going to print in the future? I think it's whatever they want. 565 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,640 If we're getting another Ninja Assassin set like right after 566 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,440 Outsiders, like they can print whatever they want, you know? 567 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,760 Absolutely, yeah. One last thing that that I do 568 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:42,040 want to mention for your pitch, Joel, is I, I think it's really 569 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,720 cool that specializations can kind of tell us the future of 570 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,680 the hero and like if they'll stay a certain way or if they'll 571 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,840 change or where they might change to whilst keeping a 572 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,960 certain core identity. Because like at the end of my 573 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,560 pitch, I sort of brought up Benji and Data Doll. 574 00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,800 It was almost an afterthought. It was like the last thought I 575 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:04,200 had while doing the notes. But it does tell us what would 576 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,760 these heroes look like in CC, Sort of similarly to how we 577 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,600 could have looked at how blood on her hands works mechanically. 578 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,840 And that could have given us a very strong idea of what Kasai 579 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,520 looks like in CC. And it did the idea of like 580 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,600 building up money and then sacrificing it for power. 581 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,080 Sure, they went for the gold route rather than the copper 582 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,760 route, but it's the same general play style of building a 583 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,720 resource to sacrifice for power turns. 584 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:30,920 Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. 585 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,640 I actually disagree. I think they thought copper 586 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,360 generation was too strong, so they added and this is like my 587 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:42,160 tinfoil hat there really, but I think they thought that copper 588 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,840 generation in CC was too powerful because of blooded her 589 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,000 hands. And for that reason they decided 590 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,280 to change the lore and make it gold oriented so that you know, 591 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,600 you still there was like still this quest to get copper because 592 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,640 it was very easy in blitz and I could very easily see that card 593 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,600 being broken in CC. But still a similar pay play 594 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,200 pattern. So maybe if now we're looking at 595 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,320 Benji and Data Doll and what they might look like, OK, this 596 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,360 card needs to be legal and useful, but maybe in just a 597 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,760 different way than what? What might be expected, right? 598 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,960 Yeah, I too am excited for a Crucible 2 point O Yeah, yeah, 599 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:25,600 yeah. Actually, no, 3 point O because 600 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,680 technically Eberfest was like 2 point O anyways. 601 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,480 But yeah, that's my pitch. Do we want to go to blue? 602 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,400 Maybe. All right, so for Blue Pitch 603 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,960 today I want to talk about why some heroes have more 604 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:42,080 specializations than others, and I'm going to link it to a theory 605 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:46,000 about the original 8 heroes in the game and why they're still 606 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,960 here and why there's some of LSS favorites. 607 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,800 Okay, okay, we were doing a little bit of like cursory 608 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,320 research for this project, right? 609 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,000 Clark was over there looking up like which heroes have the most 610 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,760 specializations, and there's definitely a pattern in the game 611 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,040 where untalented heroes have more specializations than 612 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,640 talented ones. And this makes a lot of sense to 613 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,640 me for a couple different reasons. 614 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:09,880 I'm going to start with two simpler ones and then a more 615 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,000 radical reason, which is the focus of my pitch. 616 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:16,360 OK, first of all, untalented heroes are going to have more 617 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,280 specializations because LSS needs those heroes to have the 618 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,600 cards that are special to them because they don't have talents. 619 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,000 Literally, they're untalented, right? 620 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,080 Think like Azalea and Riptide need to have cards that are 621 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,480 special to them, otherwise their entire card pool would be 622 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:36,000 eclipsed by heroes like Lexi. Lexi can play all of Azaleas 623 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,239 cards plus the lightning ones and the and the frost ones and 624 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,520 elemental ones, right? So you need to give those heroes 625 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,360 specializations in order for them to be able to have their 626 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,960 own unique cards that are not abused by Lexi. 627 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,760 And I don't think that's very controversial, right? 628 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,560 Like, you want them to have something special, that way 629 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,560 they're that one little word at the bottom of the hero isn't 630 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,080 like, making it so much more special, you know? 631 00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:02,880 Yeah, but you also want them to be able to separate from 632 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,760 themselves, like Azalea and Riptide. 633 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:06,320 You want them to have different hero identities. 634 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,040 That's literally the only way you can do it right. 635 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,320 Riptide gets his special traps because he's the trap Ranger. 636 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,000 It like you were saying, Clark, it helps them cement their own 637 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,960 identity. Secondly, I think untalented 638 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,120 heroes are more likely to get specializations because they're 639 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,480 in the game for longer and because they are weaker than 640 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,680 talented heroes. And these two points kind of 641 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,200 feed into each other. If a hero is weaker, it's going 642 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:36,280 to be in the game longer, and if a hero is in the game longer, 643 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,800 it's going to get more support because it has more 644 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:40,480 opportunities. Like when you're looking at the 645 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,560 roster, your LSS, you're designing cards for the 646 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,120 expansion slot, you're like who gets specializations? 647 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:51,320 If I just pick at random and use no other metric, then the heroes 648 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:56,840 that are around to get picked more are eventually going to get 649 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,320 more specializations than the ones that are only around for 650 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,800 like three sets for like a year, you know what I'm saying? 651 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,600 So not just because weaker heroes tend to be around longer 652 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,760 and have more opportunities, but also like Clark, if I gave you 653 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,840 one dedicated expansion slot that you could print for any 654 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,480 hero you wanted. Yeah. 655 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,960 What hero would it be? Would it be a strong hero like 656 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,040 Viscera or Zen? Or would it be a weak hero like 657 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,000 Betsy or? Yeah, it'd be a weak hero, 658 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:26,040 right? Yeah. 659 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,080 I think the community kind of has this expectation that the 660 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,080 heroes that get support are the ones that are weaker. 661 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,520 Typically they are at least, especially in the expansion 662 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,120 slot. We have seen that they have used 663 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:40,640 those spaces to print support for weaker heroes sometimes. 664 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,200 They definitely done other things with the expansion slot. 665 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,320 Yes, they use that space for a lot of things, but that is one 666 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:48,800 of them. They're not going to print. 667 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,600 Let me put it this way, Aurora's doing really good right now. 668 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,920 I don't think we're going to get an Aurora specialization in the 669 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,680 expansion slot that's going to like suddenly make her that much 670 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,040 stronger. I would agree, and I don't think 671 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,800 we're necessarily going to see a viscera one either, even though 672 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,320 he's untalented. Or if we do, it's going to be 673 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,880 one that doesn't really move the needle like Phantasmia. 674 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,720 And even that one came out before Rosetta, right? 675 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:11,640 Like now that Rosetta's out, he doesn't really need it. 676 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,160 So the heroes that need support are generally weaker ones. 677 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:20,440 So naturally they keep printing Riptide specializations because 678 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,160 he's not that strong and they feel like they need to keep 679 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,000 pushing him, right? And when they print support for 680 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,120 that are directed at untalented heroes like Azalea got judged 681 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,800 jury executioner, right? It's very targeted support. 682 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,280 She's the only one that gets it. You have to be specific with 683 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,720 untalented heroes because otherwise the talented people 684 00:37:37,720 --> 00:37:39,920 are going to umm NUM NUM NUM NUM eat up all the support as well. 685 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,760 Yes, I think one thing that's really dangerous here is if like 686 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:48,640 they reprint a hero before an older weaker version has LL D 687 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,240 and now that hero is really left in the dust. 688 00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:57,080 I say this because Arachne Marionette could be pretty good 689 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,360 in the Haunted set and could end up doing very well, and then 690 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,600 Arachne Huntsman really has no way of getting any support. 691 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,280 Yeah. Like you can't print an Arachne 692 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,920 specialization card anymore to support Arachne Huntsman because 693 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:15,320 that will also just seek to benefit Arachne Marionette when 694 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,360 they're in the game at the same time. 695 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:18,720 This is a tangent, but it's a good one. 696 00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:22,200 Specializations don't can no longer be that way of directing 697 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,480 support. I could see a world in the far 698 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,280 future where they do want to direct support specifically at 699 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,200 Arachne Huntsman, so they rework how specializations work. 700 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,600 They could literally make an Arachne Huntsman specialization, 701 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,000 which is kind of a little bit of a messy way of doing it, but it 702 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,080 would get what they wanted if they wanted to specifically 703 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,680 target for a specific iteration of a hero. 704 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,560 The thing that I really want to talk about for my pitch is that 705 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:50,320 I think there's another reason why older heroes especially are 706 00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:54,840 getting more specializations. And that's because I think they 707 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:59,000 provide a backbone for the game that LSS doesn't necessarily 708 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,520 want to go anywhere. And when they keep printing 709 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,680 specializations for these heroes, it's to keep them 710 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,520 interesting and fun and relevant even though these heroes aren't 711 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,360 seeing huge competitive results. Fuzzy. 712 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,480 That's not what's written here in the notes. 713 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:15,600 Right. In my notes I said old heroes 714 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,200 are kind of bad on purpose. Whoa. 715 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,880 Because we've established that like the heroes that are getting 716 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,600 specializations are the ones that are generally weaker, 717 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,600 partially because they simply don't have talents and talented 718 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:29,360 heroes I think are generally stronger. 719 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,000 But also like, OK, look, Alice has has made a game that has a 720 00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:36,880 one foot in one foot out rotation system. 721 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,680 They are half assing the rotation and it's in the name of 722 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,240 doing something unique and cool and interesting for the game. 723 00:39:43,240 --> 00:39:46,160 And I like the rotation system. But I think we can agree that 724 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,720 like they're trying to have their cake and eat it too. 725 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,680 They want a game that's interesting and changes 726 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:53,960 regularly. So people are always looking to 727 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,280 like it's constantly evolving, right? 728 00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:01,280 But also your cards are worth something and their value is 729 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,720 static. They want a dynamic experience. 730 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,080 That still has that like static foothold for people to to grasp 731 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:08,960 onto. That's a really challenging 732 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,240 thing to do. And so far I think they're doing 733 00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:13,720 a pretty good job of it. And one of the big reasons that 734 00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:18,920 I think it works is they have these original 8 heroes that are 735 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,840 reliable and have been in the game for the entire duration of 736 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:24,240 it, right? We just hit our five year 737 00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:26,280 anniversary. We have heroes that have been 738 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,960 legal for those five years without getting enough living 739 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,000 legend points in order to leave the game. 740 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,360 So when a hero's really good, it rotates out. 741 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:39,560 Not every player wants to play a hero that is going to win every 742 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,200 event, and sometimes they want heroes that are going to stick 743 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,080 around for a while. But a player's never going to 744 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:49,160 look at you and say I want a hero that's going to lose games. 745 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,120 Yeah. All of the original 8 are able 746 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:57,400 to provide you a gameplay experience that is approachable. 747 00:40:58,080 --> 00:40:59,800 They have a game plan that's easy to follow. 748 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,360 You don't have to worry about talents, something that a newer 749 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,560 player can understand while it's still being challenging enough 750 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,240 for them to be interested in the game and get a lot out of it. 751 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:11,600 But they also hit a sweet spot for power. 752 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:16,400 If these heroes were too strong, then this fundamental like 753 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,280 backbone of the game would no longer be there and the whole 754 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,000 game would feel more volatile. If they were weaker, then 755 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,920 there'd be a lot less interest in playing them at all, right? 756 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,320 Like who wants to bring Betsy to an event right now where Betsy 757 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,800 doesn't have a strong identity? She doesn't get to win any 758 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,480 results, so it doesn't make any sense to play her when you could 759 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,040 rather play like Victor or Bravo even. 760 00:41:38,240 --> 00:41:40,600 At least Bravo has a pretty strong identity, some really 761 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,920 cool specializations that you can be attached to. 762 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:47,640 And a big part of how these heroes exist in that fundamental 763 00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,000 space in the game is these specializations. 764 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,120 They have really strong identities because you have 765 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,160 these specialization cards. Crippling Crash. 766 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:58,600 What's the the Reiner stack? Alpha Rampage Alpha. 767 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,440 Rampage, right? These specializations are strong 768 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,000 enough to lead you to want to play the hero. 769 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:04,720 They tell you what the hero is supposed to be doing. 770 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,480 I also kind of feel like every time we get a new one, it's like 771 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,600 an advertisement to direct players back to these original 772 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,960 8, reconceptualize them, and help them stay relevant in the 773 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:18,560 meta over and over again. I I get what you're saying with 774 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:23,480 the like half in half out but I don't know how invested LSS are 775 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,760 in being like these heroes will never LL. 776 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,800 Like if I think if you went to AQ and A and asked any of the 777 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:35,600 devs do you want Katsu to LL they'd be like if he's strong 778 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,840 enough and the players perform well enough on him, sure. 779 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,400 Like I don't think that LSS is really designing their game 780 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:47,320 around making certain heroes LL or not making them LLI don't 781 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,480 think that's what they're trying to go for when they designed the 782 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:51,280 game. But I do think that when they 783 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:55,280 designed the 1st 2 sets, you're right in saying that they really 784 00:42:55,280 --> 00:43:00,280 wanted to provide this like restrained simple yet with depth 785 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,520 and complexity in the designs. And they put a ton of effort 786 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:07,080 into that. And that's resulted in, once 787 00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,400 they started maybe getting a little bit more loosey goosey 788 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,000 with these talented heroes, and they started letting themselves 789 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,520 print more powerful cards because it won't affect those 790 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,600 guys over there, so it's okay. It'll just be this one hero. 791 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,880 Once that started leaking in, it became clear that they were 792 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,080 getting outpaced by the rest of the field. 793 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,040 And I guess part of my picture is that. 794 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,920 I see Viscera going very, very soon. 795 00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,680 I see Dash IE going very, very soon. 796 00:43:34,240 --> 00:43:37,560 Just grab a couple of wins at a procrest, grab a couple wins at 797 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:39,360 RTN and she's gone. Yeah, she. 798 00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,000 Doesn't need a big win. Yeah, she's already Dash 799 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,040 inventor extraordinaire is already at 940 out of 1000. 800 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:49,240 She is like the closest to Elling Elling out of all the 801 00:43:49,240 --> 00:43:51,880 heroes in the game right now. But also, that would make her 802 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,920 the first untalented hero to hit living Legend, you know? 803 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,680 And I think Visserie might overtake her. 804 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,640 Has might have already overtaken her, right? 805 00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,600 They're both right there. They either just need the last 806 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,600 couple of wins or the one big win to get them there. 807 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:10,480 And Kano isn't isn't close enough. 808 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:17,560 Yeah, pack your AB. Folks, it's part of the system, 809 00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:19,200 right? Like all heroes hit living 810 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,280 legend eventually. That's part of the promise, you 811 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:26,160 know, But I think having those heroes in particular take so 812 00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,240 long has been beneficial to the game up until this point, you 813 00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:31,080 know? Yeah, because now we're dealing 814 00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:35,520 with the hero blow. And I think it's like you were 815 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,960 saying, the longer the heroes in a game and the worse they are, 816 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:40,520 the more specializations they get. 817 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,280 So when you're in the game for a really long time and you're not 818 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:47,120 doing good for a long period of that time, you can end up with 819 00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,680 like a ridiculous amount of hero specializations. 820 00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:53,400 We could almost use hero specializations as a way of 821 00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,960 tracking how old a hero in the game is at this point. 822 00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:03,400 It's not perfect, but we could. So assuming you guys kind of 823 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,920 agree with this idea, my follow up would kind of be like, do 824 00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,760 other untalented heroes other than the original 8 follow this 825 00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:15,640 idea of being just powerful enough to bring players to get 826 00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,520 players interested in them and excited to play them even though 827 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:22,400 they're not super competitive. And I think Riptide actually 828 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,040 also really fits this definition. 829 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,880 He keeps getting specializations printed in the expansion slots, 830 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,600 partially because he kind of needs them to help fill out his 831 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:35,640 identity, but also he's not super strong, but he also has a 832 00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,680 lot of people who are really attracted to the identity that 833 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,680 he does have. So he is something that I've 834 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:43,360 seen a lot of newer players get interested in. 835 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:47,560 And maybe that's my bias because I happen to know talent and any 836 00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:49,680 new player that gets into Riptide, I've heard about them. 837 00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:52,840 Joel, what do you think? I think specifically off of 838 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,760 heavy hitters and warrior, I feel like we saw 2 brand new 839 00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,360 untalented heroes enter the warrior space. 840 00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,240 I mean cuz I was massively popular in blitz right? 841 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,680 Yeah, I think a lot of people really fell in love with that 842 00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,560 dual wielding sword fantasy, myself included. 843 00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:13,520 Kasai Centauri sell sword is one of my favorite heroes in the 844 00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:18,120 game and I think Dice Commando also really likes site Hero and 845 00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,280 a bunch of other people. So yeah. 846 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,400 And people like Kasai. But when heavy hitters came out 847 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:28,880 and we saw those new untalented hero designs, did you feel like 848 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:33,320 they were really harkening back to the ages of welcome to Wraith 849 00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:39,720 with how restrained they were? I think my bias around Warrior 850 00:46:39,720 --> 00:46:43,760 is really influencing how I feel about the Olympia and Kasai 851 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,480 specifically. And I, we've spoken, we've spoke 852 00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:52,320 extensively about how heroes are released with less than their 853 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,000 full care. I think Olympia suffers from 854 00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:59,160 that the most. I think Asai was sandbagged as 855 00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,480 well because her specialization would have been too powerful if 856 00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:07,680 she created coppers through her hero ability in CC as well. 857 00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:11,000 So I think there's a lot more factors with those two heroes 858 00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,240 than some other untalented heroes. 859 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:20,240 I do feel like Victor, while not having a talent, has felt strong 860 00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:23,640 enough that he competes with the other talented heroes and 861 00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:28,040 doesn't have that like stability where I expect him to be in the 862 00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:29,840 format for years to come, you know? 863 00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:34,200 Yeah, I guess KO is also sort of up there, right? 864 00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:38,920 KO Armed and dangerous, the CC version of the hero, both of 865 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,720 them fell like the quote UN quote push version, sort of like 866 00:47:41,720 --> 00:47:43,320 how Kasai was the pushed version. 867 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:44,720 We've talked about this in heavy hitters. 868 00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,720 They were like the three heroes that were like seen as the 869 00:47:47,720 --> 00:47:50,280 strong ones in the class and the three heroes who were seen as 870 00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,200 the weak ones in the class for that set. 871 00:47:53,720 --> 00:47:57,120 And as it's shaken out, Kasai has gotten a decent amount of 872 00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:58,920 living Legend points, but not too many. 873 00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:02,080 But I think it's definitely something to be said for the 874 00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,920 fact that they want to be restrained when they print 875 00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,520 talentless sets, because they know that that card pool will 876 00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:12,000 influence the talented heroes. And if they make those cards too 877 00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,240 strong, then the talented heroes are just going to gobble them 878 00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:17,480 up. But I think that that's a bit of 879 00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:24,080 a weird heuristic to take, because we've seen in Rosetta 880 00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:26,920 how a lot of the brand new Roomblade cards actually did way 881 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,880 more for Visserie than they ever did for Aurora OR Florian. 882 00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:35,760 I think if they actually just get better at siloing talented 883 00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:40,320 designs from untalented designs then it's going to get a lot 884 00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,000 healthier. I think that's all I got for 885 00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:43,880 blue pitch. Do you guys want to move on to 886 00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,560 Arsenal zone? Yeah, The Arsenal Zone is the 887 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,440 part of our podcast where we talk about cards we love, cards 888 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,200 we hate, cards we love to hate, or cards that just kind of 889 00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,240 exist. Joel, why don't you start us off 890 00:48:55,240 --> 00:48:56,720 I. Actually want to change mine. 891 00:48:56,720 --> 00:49:00,360 I'm sorry. So the car that I want to talk 892 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:04,480 about for the Arsenal Zone is Banksy, which is Max's only 893 00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:06,960 specialization, which I think is stupid. 894 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,600 That's crazy. Yeah, I love the idea of 895 00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:13,520 signature weapons, but I don't like the idea of your signature 896 00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:15,400 weapon being your only specialization. 897 00:49:15,720 --> 00:49:18,440 To me, it just feels lazy. Bright lights in general I have 898 00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,520 a lot of issues with, but Banksy is just one of those cards where 899 00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,680 it's really cool and I think they could have really iterated 900 00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:29,360 it upon that cranking design for Max specifically because it 901 00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:34,480 seems like Dash IO at this time is the item hero and the crank 902 00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:38,320 hero. So in the future I really would 903 00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:41,520 like some more Max cards. That's probably the only way I 904 00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,840 would ever approach Mechanologist in the future just 905 00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:45,880 because Banksy is a cool card. Great card. 906 00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,920 I remember picking up a cold foil Banksy off you for like. 907 00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:51,720 A little cheap, not not like super cheap. 908 00:49:51,720 --> 00:49:53,600 I think it was still like 20-30 bucks. 909 00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:55,600 But like I was like, oh, I got a good deal on this. 910 00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,080 One of these days, Banksy's gonna be a good guy. 911 00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,880 I know we're trying to shout out Banksy and not just dunk on Max, 912 00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,040 but I think it's kind of funny that, like, the card that I 913 00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:07,920 associate the most with Max right now is Nitro Mechanoid, 914 00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,560 which has dash on the art. Yeah. 915 00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,480 Right. It's also interesting. 916 00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:17,040 Symbiosis Shot is a dash specialization, Banksy is a Max 917 00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:22,920 specialization, but the Evil Weapon is not Teclo. 918 00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,640 Yeah, Teclo Leveler is not a Teclo Boston specialization. 919 00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,640 His specialization in the set was Singularity. 920 00:50:28,720 --> 00:50:30,360 Yeah. Whack. 921 00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:34,240 It's funny because Teklu has the best identity out of all the 922 00:50:34,240 --> 00:50:37,800 mechanologists, but the worst playability and. 923 00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:40,400 I think those go hand in hand. Yeah, definitely, yeah. 924 00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:44,040 Cuz he's so specific as to what he wants to do. 925 00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:48,040 You gots to do evos. It's really, really cool though 926 00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:50,440 I ultimately really like Banksy has a card. 927 00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:53,040 It's a good shout. But that's it for me. 928 00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:57,480 How about y'all? For my card I chose Angelic 929 00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,400 Wrath after the Tomb of Divinity ban. 930 00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,200 Prism sort of filled by the wayside. 931 00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:06,240 But we have a lot of Prism mains at our locals and people who 932 00:51:06,240 --> 00:51:10,040 like playing Prism and they've started running this card and I 933 00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:10,960 hate this card. This. 934 00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,480 Card is so annoying. This card annoys me so much. 935 00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:21,840 I also just am not a big fan of incense that pump power because 936 00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,920 like they're just not attack reactions but they're played 937 00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:28,840 exactly like attack reactions. That bothers me somewhere deep 938 00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:30,880 down. Inside and it's a yellow for 939 00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,200 three. And it's a yellow for bullshit 940 00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,440 three. Yeah, Like it's really, really 941 00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,840 strong. And it's just I'm just like, 942 00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:42,760 what is this? But I blocked but I did the 943 00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:45,200 thing. And it's always on heritable 944 00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:50,200 triumph or fucking arrow. Shown out so many times by this 945 00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,320 card, I I think it's a surprisingly solid card. 946 00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:58,400 I think even as Prism grows and gets support again, no. 947 00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:03,240 I think this card made stick around just because it's 948 00:52:03,240 --> 00:52:06,720 actually really efficient, especially into heroes who don't 949 00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:09,320 have a lot of poppers. Yeah, that whole sentence just 950 00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:10,240 ruined my day. Yeah. 951 00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:12,600 Like like a room blade meta. Yeah. 952 00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:13,920 Oh yeah, that. One's even worse than the 953 00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:17,800 previous sentence. Prism's been pretty solid into a 954 00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,040 room blade meta where we don't have a lot of sixes. 955 00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:23,080 The card Angelic Wrath really double s down on the like. 956 00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,240 Have popper or die. Yeah. 957 00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,880 Because like, if, if you pop it, Angelic Wrath isn't going to do 958 00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:32,000 shit, you know? Yeah. 959 00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:36,000 We should get an Missouri that as AD react. 960 00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,440 Can swap a blocking card with a blocking card. 961 00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:41,920 Surprise phantasm. Yeah, so it's like a blocking. 3 962 00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,120 fantasm. Good luck. 963 00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:49,200 All right, so the card that I'm going to shout out today is 964 00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:53,320 Ticket Puncher. It's the card from Heavy 965 00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:54,560 Hitters. It's the arms piece. 966 00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:58,000 It gives you extra block depending on the number of 967 00:52:58,000 --> 00:52:59,880 opponents you have with more life. 968 00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,280 Oh oh. Like that was a fun little 969 00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:04,080 cycle. Like a bloodied Oval and all 970 00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:05,400 that shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 971 00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:07,800 Ticket Puncher is the arms piece, and I think it's my 972 00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,760 favorite name out of the cycle because you know, when you 973 00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:12,720 imagine a ticket puncher, it's like a little machine. 974 00:53:12,720 --> 00:53:15,560 You press like a hole, punch right, and you just hit your 975 00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:18,720 little ticket. But the art is a guy raising his 976 00:53:18,720 --> 00:53:20,600 first in the air. He's like literally punching 977 00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:23,000 something. Not a ticket. 978 00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:26,160 Right. Like maybe he's punching your 979 00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:28,280 ticket to sleep. OK. 980 00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:32,200 Or he's punching your face, which is the proverbial ticket. 981 00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:37,040 Yeah. So sort of like not my face, 982 00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:38,800 it's my meal ticket kind of thing. 983 00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:41,920 So it's a funny name to me anyway. 984 00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:45,480 Yeah, I'm doing a good job of selling the comedy of this. 985 00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:50,080 So I like this cycle of cards because it's something that is 986 00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:55,960 playable in A1V1 game of limited and it is also extra cool in a 987 00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,200 UPF game of limited. And it's an example of like how 988 00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,360 they're able to design A multi purpose card, not even just for 989 00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,480 like limited versus constructed, but like multiple different 990 00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:09,800 limited formats in the same set. And that's really elegant and 991 00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:12,600 hard to do. So perhaps to LSS for that, even 992 00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:15,200 if the design like would never be played in constructed, I 993 00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:16,600 think it's a cool design for limited. 994 00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:19,560 I mean, bloodied Oval is like surprisingly playable. 995 00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,400 Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of these days, I want to sit 996 00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:25,040 down as a guardian at a UPF table and just flip over the 997 00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:28,480 entire suite. I just watch the players be 998 00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:31,440 like, if we kill them, we like have to gang up on them, right? 999 00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:34,040 Like, like we have to be like, OK, now's the turn, now's the 1000 00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:36,040 turn, now's the turn. Everyone go for it. 1001 00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:39,680 And I'm also hoping that tomorrow we get to play UPF 1002 00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:41,760 heavy hitters. We're all gonna draft. 1003 00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:43,840 I haven't decided what format yet, but that's the one that I'm 1004 00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:46,200 hoping for. No one's told me no yet, except 1005 00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,400 Joel. That was a staunch no, yeah. 1006 00:54:51,240 --> 00:54:55,360 So that's my card and I brought one to sign, one for you and one 1007 00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:57,720 for you. Thank you, Fuzzy. 1008 00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:01,360 Thank you guys for podding with me. 1009 00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:02,720 Thanks. Yeah. 1010 00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:06,640 This was fun. I liked returning to the sort of 1011 00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,920 OG design sort of episodes that we did at the at the very 1012 00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:13,520 beginning. We we have a few more that we're 1013 00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,440 hopefully recording soon that'll be they'll be released 1014 00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:18,440 throughout the month. So look forward to it. 1015 00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:19,720 So stay. Tuned. 1016 00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:23,000 Bye bye everyone. Until next time, guys, bye. 1017 00:55:43,240 --> 00:55:47,800 Pitch It to Me podcast is hosted by Joel Rosinos, Clark Moore and 1018 00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:51,120 Fuzzy Delp. Our executive producer is Talon 1019 00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:54,080 Stradley, our logistics coordinator is John Farkas, 1020 00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:58,200 Music is produced by Dylan Hulse, logo is designed by Han V 1021 00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:00,760 and our sound mixing is done by Christopher Moore. 1022 00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,920 Last but not least, thank you, the listener for taking the time 1023 00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,800 to listen to our podcast. Be sure to give us a follow on 1024 00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:10,120 your favorite social media platform at Pichitomi Podcast. 1025 00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:27,680 That was a good one. That was Co wispy. 1026 00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:29,800 Our listeners just cringed right now, it was that good. 1027 00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:31,640 No no dude, they fucking love that shit. 1028 00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:33,400 That was a good cringe it. Was a good cringe. 1029 00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:36,720 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's not a cringe. 1030 00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:40,560 That's just like, it's like just above his knees, right? 1031 00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:44,360 It's like like a sneeze is like an eighth of an orgasm that was 1032 00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:45,960 like a six. It was like an exerted. 1033 00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:47,600 I think this. Is more than an eighth, you said 1034 00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:50,240 above a sneeze. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, the 1035 00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:52,680 lines up. I know how fractions work fuzzy. 1036 00:56:54,240 --> 00:56:56,440 I heard it wrong. Glad someone on this podcast 1037 00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:56,560 does.