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Welcome to Pitch It to Me 
podcast, a show about the 

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subjective past, present and 
potential future of flesh and 

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blood design. 
Today's episode will be about 

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life gain and flesh and blood. 
You can find us across all 

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socials such as Blue Sky and 
Instagram at Pitch It to Me 

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podcast. 
I'm fuzzy. 

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I'm Joel. 
And I'm Clark. 

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All right, last episode on 
Pigeon to Me podcast, we 

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established that Joel had one 
more chance because he kept 

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getting 9th place in all of his 
RTNS. 

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He had one more chance. 
Joel, did you get 9th at the 

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last RTN? 
No. 

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Did you get 10th? 
No. 

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Oh, poor guy. 
Yeah, I got 5. 

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That beat so hard I I don't 
think. 

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You think maybe, maybe we'll 
have to go back and see. 

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I'm not. 
I'm not quite sure if you 

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screaming directly. 
I hate it. 

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Or not. 
I didn't know what I was going 

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to say that actually just came 
out. 

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I. 
Didn't think to move back. 

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That was beautiful dude. 
We're so fucking happy for you. 

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Thank you so much it. 
Was a stacked artian too. 

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Yeah, Kings Laura games, our 
local Armory always has the best

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people in all of Socal playing 
there. 

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And so you like got first place?
Yeah, I was in the finals 

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against Tao Tao. 
It was like a I had a really 

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good lead, but he just was 
crawling back really efficiently

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and it got down to 1:00 to 1:00.
No price splits or nothing. 

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Nope. 
So you got the gold foil? 

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I got the gold foil too. 
Yeah, gold foil. 

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What did you get? 
It was metacarpus node. 

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That seems like a really good 
one. 

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Yeah, I was pretty hyped about 
it. 

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I was like really hoping for 
like a Centauri Sabre or Raiden 

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is like was would have been like
made my day. 

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But any Majestic I think is 
super gas. 

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And that one's like really 
playable. 

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Yeah. 
So I'm hoping to cash that in 

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for and Kate was never going to 
hell out, right? 

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Yeah, definitely. 
I'm definitely selling it before

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he does at least. 
Kano is still gonna be good in 

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Living Legend format, Yeah. 
That card's gonna be good for a 

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long time, yeah. 
Yeah so very glad that I got to 

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get my invite out of the way. 
Well, not really cuz I waited 

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till the end of the season to do
well. 

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But yeah, super thankful for 
everyone who supported me at the

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RTN because I had a very like 
emotional first game of top 

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eight. 
I went against the Cano and just

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barely squeezed it out. 
So yeah, it was a big one. 

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It meant a lot for sure. 
Nice. 

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You know what I can't wait for? 
Is this next Armory deck? 

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I think there's like 1 
unannounced left right? 

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Yeah. 
So to sort of keep the meta 

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interesting is they're releasing
1 Armory deck each month leading

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up to High Seas. 
So the one in March is going to 

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be the Aurora and then the one 
in April is going to be Max. 

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And then we don't know the one 
that's coming in May yet. 

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And because they did Aurora, I'm
thinking, do you guys think 

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they're going to do Terra? 
Oh that would be freaking cool, 

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not going to lie. 
Yeah, maybe. 

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I don't know what it was 
exactly, but I remember just 

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getting this feeling as maybe I 
was watching the 1st strike 

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stuff or listening to other 
content creators talk about the 

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Aurora Armory deck where I'm 
just like, I feel like they're 

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going to do the terror one. 
Like I think we need like the 

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red flourish in the way that we 
got, in the way that we got the 

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red static shock. 
I feel like we need, you know, 

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playsets of or like a place that
it thrives, right? 

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These or even just the earth 
bond stuff which I think like 

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could even be really interesting
cards to incorporate into a more

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earth oriented Yarrow list. 
Yeah. 

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Or no, they're all earth 
guardian. 

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Yeah, or elemental guardian so. 
Or maybe like a starve out list?

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I think it would be kind of 
crazy if like, out of the two 

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new heroes printed straight out 
of Armory decks, they're both 

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Guardian, you know? 
I'd kind of want to see a little

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bit like some other heroes 
because Yarl was the 1st. 

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One, yeah, we did get Yarl. 
And granted, Yarl is like 

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totally new whereas Terra has 
already been printed in Blitz, 

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you know? 
I don't think this would be an 

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Armory deck origins because the 
whole point of Armory deck 

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origins is that they also print 
like a bunch of majestics and a 

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legendary specifically for that 
one here. 

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So it would be like the first 
time we see the hero in CC but 

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also it's not Armory deck 
origins so is it? 

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It's just a normal Armory day I 
think. 

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It would just be a normal 
Armory. 

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Day I think there's less like 
logistical sense because it's 

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not the origins and he's already
existed before to me I think it 

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would make make the most sense 
because a while ago berserk and 

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crown of seeds banned were 
banned in tandem and a lot of 

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people suspected that like you 
know virgins and Florian were 

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the reasons why they banned 
crown of seeds ahead of time 

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ahead of Rosetta Rosetta's 
release. 

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But I think if this next army 
deck could be Tara, it's because

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of Tara because his hero ability
allows him to whenever he has a 

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floating resource, at the end of
his turn he can pay 1 to create 

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a might token. 
And so if you have like crown of

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seeds and Rampart, you'll always
have that one extra for a might 

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token. 
I. 

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Didn't like an away some Oasis 
rest fights or like one cost 

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instant stuff and like you can 
just run away with the game? 

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So this episode's going to be 
about life game and flesh and 

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blood. 
And a lot of it's inspired by 

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some recent thoughts that Joel's
been having because Joel has 

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been a vocal hater on life gain.
I think a few episodes ago, he 

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kind of just like threw a hot 
take out there in the middle of 

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our episode, kind of non 
sequitur like where he said that

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like all life gains should be 
banned. 

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I think that was your words, 
Joel. 

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Yeah, you did that that. 
Sounds like something I would 

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say but I do not recall. 
It was definitely like one of 

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those in conversation comments, 
right? 

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Yeah. 
So we took that out and we made 

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sure to base a whole episode 
around it. 

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And also, life gain is just a 
consistent topic that's going to

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come up again and again in the 
lifetime of flesh and blood. 

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Yeah. 
So for today, red pitch, we're 

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going to talk about like some of
the basic design principles of 

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life gain, what can make it 
good, what can make it bad. 

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In yellow pitch, Joel's going to
give us some more of his nuanced

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thoughts specifically, and Clark
and I will eat some popcorn and 

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listen up. 
And on blue pitch, we're going 

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to talk about like the future of
life game in the game where we 

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think LSS might go in the 
future, what could be printed in

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the future around life game, 
stuff like that. 

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And then I want to stick around 
for our Arsenal zone at the end.

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Yeah, Fuzzy, what do you got? 
Why don't you start us off? 

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So for Red Pitch, we've decided 
to call this Live Laugh Life 

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Game. 
So let's talk about some of like

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the pros and cons of life gain 
in Flesh and blood. 

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I think most trading card games 
like to play around with life 

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gain. 
You know, if I can take damage, 

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why can't I heal some of that 
damage back? 

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It's a fun mechanic to play 
around, easy for a designer to 

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use in order to flesh out the 
design of the game. 

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Right In Flesh and Blood, 
because there's no board states,

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because the life totals can be 
so back and forth, we get some 

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really like interesting dynamics
where life game can interact 

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with the game and that it 
wouldn't in other games. 

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For these first couple of bullet
points, I want you to think of 

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life gain in a very simplistic 
state. 

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In one hand, you have a block 3,
on the other hand you have Sigil

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Losalis. 
Why would I want a block 3 

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versus an instant that gains ME3
life but doesn't block? 

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The block card will allow me to 
stop on hits, right? 

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If someone comes at me with a 
snatch, I want to block the 

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snatch to deny value or leave no
witnesses or Command and 

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Conquer. 
Sigil Losalis cannot block any 

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of those cards, whereas a block 
3 will be able to. 

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So life gain is a little bit 
worse than blocking if it's not 

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going to be able to stop on 
hits, whereas the block 3 is 

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really bad for stopping things 
like a Harmonized Kodachi. 

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If your opponent's throwing lots
of chip damage at you, like one 

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damage, 2 damage, maybe they 
have a bunch of those spectral 

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Shields or a bunch of little 
auras, then life gain can be 

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really good for helping you 
fight those strategies because 

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you can split the defensive 
value across multiple points of 

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damage. 
Of course, there's also things 

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like Arcane damage, where arcane
damage threatens your life total

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in a way that you cannot block 
it simply so you can run life 

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gain in order to counter that 
arcane damage. 

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And that's a concept we see very
explicitly in the Rosetta 

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Limited format. 
We just saw cards like Arcane 

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Polarity or even Fertile Ground 
printed into the set in order to

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give you a way to combat arcane 
damage where there's no Arcane 

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Barrier in the format. 
Which to remind viewers, we 

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really liked that design aspect 
and how they played around being

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able to deal with arcane damage 
through life gain in that 

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limited format. 
I think in this case we as two 

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just want to point that out. 
That's kidding. 

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Yeah, I know that Ryan Gottlieb 
has said on podcast that he 

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liked Tales of Aria as a format 
because the arcane damage allows

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the game to end. 
You want games to end in flesh 

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and blood. 
You don't want them to be super 

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grindy and last forever. 
So true. 

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And if you can't actually block 
the arcane damage, that's one 

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way to make sure that happens. 
However, in constructed, life 

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game usually extends the game. 
If you're playing life game and 

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constructed, what we usually see
is it's a way for you to be 

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super defensive. 
Think about like a block card. 

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You have to throw it in front of
an attack. 

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It is a interaction with your 
opponent. 

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It is a response. 
And if they're not throwing 

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attacks at you, your block cards
are not going to be able to be 

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used for blocking. 
You'll have to either play them 

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or if they're literally block 
cards, they're stuck in hand. 

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I know Clark, you've ranted all 
the time about playing Victor 

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and getting stuck with all of 
your tester strengths. 

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Yeah, there's IP1 myself, so I 
can keep my test of strength in 

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hand, yeah. 
Whereas a card like Count Your 

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Blessings or Sigil of Solace, I 
can always play that card 

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regardless of what my opponent 
is doing. 

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If my opponent just chooses to 
pass to me without throwing any 

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attacks, well, I can still build
my defenses up. 

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I can play them even if my 
opponent's not throwing any 

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offense. 
It's kind of like passive 

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defensive. 
Yes. 

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Now this is also notably things 
that other games have run into 

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issues for. 
One very famous example is Elder

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Dragon Highlander AKA Commander.
Back in the day, Commander, 

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damaging used to be a rule that 
existed in that format. 

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And then some games just said, 
well, I'm going to gain 

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thousands upon thousands of 
life, and the game will never 

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end. 
So they had to add this extra 

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rule to make sure that there was
some inevitability or people 

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were still engaging with board 
states at the very least, right.

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This was before, you know, the 
infinite upon infinite upon 

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infinite that can now rule that 
format. 

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Yeah. 
In Flesh and Blood, we often see

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life game tied to instance. 
This is something that's like 

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always been present in things 
like Sigil of Solace, but it's 

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especially true now in Rosetta 
where we have Count Your 

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Blessings and Fertile Ground 
printed into the game. 

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There have been action speed 
life game cards like Healing 

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Bomb and Sun Kiss, which both 
basically the same. 

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They're cost 0, they gain you 
three life, they block for two, 

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but they don't have any go 
again. 

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Why do you guys think it is that
LSS has decided that cards with 

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life game don't have go again? 
I don't know. 

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I think it's because if they 
did, they would simply be a 

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little bit too strong as the 
like the third or fourth card in

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a hand. 
A lot of the times we sort of 

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00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,000
talk about how decks need to 
work. 

226
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,120
Certain decks need to work a 
little bit to get action points 

227
00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:45,200
and to properly utilize full 
four card 5 card hands. 

228
00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,560
If it's just a non attack action
card with go again, that's 

229
00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:50,480
really easy for them to play and
activate. 

230
00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,240
There's not a big opportunity 
cost for them. 

231
00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,640
Like if healing Balm had go 
again and was a three block, I 

232
00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,400
think that would be in every 
single assassin deck, every 

233
00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:03,440
single guardian deck, every 
single warrior. 

234
00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:05,560
Deck no. 
I think it would be in every 

235
00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:08,320
single room blade deck. 
Because it also, Oh yeah, it 

236
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:09,960
would just turn on 
viscerizability. 

237
00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,360
Yeah, he's gone now, but. 
No yeah one thing I was thinking

238
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,160
of when you're asking that fuzzy
is like oh because you don't 

239
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,080
want to give a verdance like a 
stronger combo. 

240
00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,080
But these cards were printed way
before Verdance is probably in 

241
00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:25,320
the fold and was still around 
when room blades cared more 

242
00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,840
about non attack actions via 
viceroy. 

243
00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,840
Not really gain so much but also
briar. 

244
00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,200
I think they imagine that life 
gain is just a lot healthier if 

245
00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,080
it's played in tandem with the 
tax. 

246
00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:37,760
And that's not really what I'm 
trying to say. 

247
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,600
Let me rephrase it. 
I think if you played life game 

248
00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,880
card into life game card into 
life game card, yeah, that would

249
00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:45,240
be unhealthy, Yes. 
Right. 

250
00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:46,640
Yes, which is why it doesn't 
have go again. 

251
00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,000
If you can still play it with 
other cards, like a go again 

252
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,200
attack into a go again attack 
into life game. 

253
00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,480
And that's a lot more healthy 
because at least they can 

254
00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,800
interact with most of your turn.
It's the uninteractability of 

255
00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,000
life game, which is is why they 
have to put some control 

256
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,360
measures on it, right? 
They want you to be playing the 

257
00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,640
game with the person across the 
table and it's really easy to 

258
00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:07,800
sit there and ignore them in 
order to do your own thing and 

259
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,640
gain life. 
I think about Lorcana a little 

260
00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:12,520
bit. 
There's interaction in Lorcana, 

261
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:16,120
but you build up your point 
total as opposed to taking down 

262
00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:17,480
your opponent's life total, 
right? 

263
00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:20,560
And when like Lor Khanna was 
introduced to me, this was 

264
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,360
phrased as a pro in the game 
where it makes it more fun and 

265
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,800
casual as opposed to like you 
feel like you're beating someone

266
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,640
you know, right? 
It is more approachable to a 

267
00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:35,440
wider audience and in flesh and 
blood, people who gain life are 

268
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:42,400
not considered to be nicer. 
Yeah. 

269
00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,520
But people don't actually look 
forward to sitting across the 

270
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,360
table and watching someone gain 
a bunch of life because they 

271
00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:49,800
want you to play the game with 
them. 

272
00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:51,640
They want something that they 
can interact with. 

273
00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:55,400
If I throw 7 damage at you, I 
can block it or you can block 

274
00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,240
it, right? 
But I can't block your life 

275
00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,280
game. 
Yeah, I also want to point out, 

276
00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:04,080
Fuzzy, you said that like why is
it that this action speed life 

277
00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:10,120
game doesn't have go again? 
It's also interesting because we

278
00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:11,920
never see those cards get 
played. 

279
00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,160
They're not in any decks. 
No one's really running healing 

280
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,240
balm. 
Healing Potion is run, but more 

281
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,400
off of the delayed value that 
you can get from stacking that 

282
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,800
life game up on cards that I'll 
be talking about later in the 

283
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:26,560
episode. 
I think I actually disagree a 

284
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,840
little bit, Clark. 
I think now that Rosetta is 

285
00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,720
here, people who want to play 
life game decks have better 

286
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,200
options. 
But I definitely remember like 

287
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,600
fatigue decks had their fatigue 
package. 

288
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,040
Like I've seen Talon do this 
right? 

289
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,600
Like he played fatigue Riptide 
and he would be like, OK, let's 

290
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,400
start with a bunch of healing 
bombs and sun kisses and defense

291
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,040
cards and see what I can beat 
with a deck like this. 

292
00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,840
And I've lost to decks like that
when I'm playing aggro against 

293
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,800
like Bravo, for example, you 
know, like people just can just 

294
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,040
play guardian. 
People did this in blitz too, 

295
00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,000
right? 
Yoji starts with 21 hell. 

296
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,560
So they just run healing bombs 
and sun kisses and block fours 

297
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,840
and they see who they can beat 
with a strategy like that. 

298
00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,200
So I I don't think it's quite 
fair to say that they're not 

299
00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:08,840
played. 
I think they're not played 

300
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,240
anymore because they're better 
strategies now, yeah. 

301
00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,320
Yeah, and the second point I was
going to bring off of this fuzzy

302
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:18,600
is if the issue with life gain 
is that you can just play a 

303
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:23,640
bunch of it all at once, instant
speed life gain lets you do that

304
00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:24,440
again. 
Yep. 

305
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,160
Yeah, it's like a design shift, 
right? 

306
00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,640
Where life gain used to be only 
at action speed, but it has a 

307
00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,200
little bit of block value so you
can run 100% cards that block. 

308
00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,000
You know you can be like do I 
want my life gain or do I want 

309
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,200
to stop this on hit. 
Now it's a little bit more 

310
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,240
polarized because count your 
blessings can't block on hits. 

311
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,880
So your opponent gets all the 
block hits that they want, but 

312
00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:47,720
you have larger amounts of life 
gain. 

313
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,560
And as we've kind of seen, like 
the instant speed actually makes

314
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:55,320
it harder to interact with it 
even still, because my on hits 

315
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,720
like a command and conquer can 
kill a healing bomb in your 

316
00:15:57,720 --> 00:15:59,480
arsenal. 
It can't kill us account your 

317
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,000
blessings in your arsenal, 
right? 

318
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,280
Yeah, or like weakest link. 
Yeah, weakest, weakest link can 

319
00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:08,280
attack your CYB. 
I'm just gonna play CYB in 

320
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,120
response. 
And gain more life than you were

321
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,400
threatening with Weakest link 
anyways. 

322
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,200
Yeah. 
Yeah, since without the on hit, 

323
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:16,680
weakest link isn't gonna do a 
whole lot. 

324
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,400
So as we take a step back and 
think about life gain as a 

325
00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,560
strategy in Flesh and Blood, I 
think it's good to think about 

326
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:30,520
what strengths and metas would 
life gain be good in and what 

327
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,080
strengths and metas would life 
gain be bad in. 

328
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,680
Because I think there should be 
an answer to both of those 

329
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,400
questions in order for us to 
consider life game to be healthy

330
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:39,760
for the game. 
Yeah. 

331
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:45,520
For example, one of its 
strengths would be a slower meta

332
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,160
is not going to be prepared for 
a deck that can provide more 

333
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,160
defense than the offense you're 
providing. 

334
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,160
If I'm playing a deck that's 
very mid rangey and I want to 

335
00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,600
swing 7 and block 6 every turn, 
then I'm not going to be ready 

336
00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,400
when my opponent blocks all 
seven and then also gains life 

337
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,000
on top of it and isn't throwing 
damage. 

338
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,440
Back, yeah, that's a lot of 
compounding value that they're 

339
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,599
gaining and you can't. 
Really be with like the deck 

340
00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:10,480
that you brought. 
I also really liked how life 

341
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:15,560
gain was expressing itself in 
this meta in the haunted right 

342
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,480
because like we had red line 
decks that had to find a way of 

343
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,160
dealing with rune blades so they
started running life gain. 

344
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,359
Arcane Polarity was making 
itself into a lot of sideboard 

345
00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:26,560
lists. 
Interesting. 

346
00:17:27,319 --> 00:17:30,400
We would also expect life gain 
to be worse in a very aggressive

347
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,640
format where on hits are being 
thrown at you left and right. 

348
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,480
Aurora does this a little bit 
with like, she throws snatch, 

349
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:38,200
right? 
She does, yeah. 

350
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:40,440
And she has a that's just kind 
of the. 

351
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,040
Perfect example, right? 
She gives it go again, swings 

352
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,200
her forward, you go. 
Oh no, I have two. 

353
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,480
Count your blessings and the 
sigil of sauce in hand. 

354
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,880
I can't stop this. 
Guess you're drawn, bud. 

355
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:51,600
Or when they drop a channel 
lightning valley. 

356
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,920
And if you have any instance in 
your hand, how are you supposed 

357
00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:55,360
to block out channel lightning 
valley? 

358
00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:00,000
Sindra does this, maybe a little
bit less so, but just having 

359
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,480
life gain is not enough to get 
around these on hits, you're 

360
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,440
going to be allowing the aggro 
player to run over you and do 

361
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,960
whatever they want. 
So because I was able to name a 

362
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,840
deck for strengths and 
weaknesses, that is one sign 

363
00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,200
that life gain might maybe be at
a healthy place in Flesh and 

364
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,520
Blood. 
I think it's also kind of funny 

365
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,520
how I mentioned mid range 
strategies because it's very 

366
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,000
rare that we actually have a 
very mid range meta. 

367
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:27,600
Yeah, our last one was the heavy
hitters meta before we got the 

368
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,480
big refresh of life gain in 
Rosetta the Golden Age. 

369
00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:33,880
We would also hope that when 
life gain shows up in the game 

370
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,960
that it's not very pure 
defensive, that you're not able 

371
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,440
to play a game just centered 
around fatiguing players out and

372
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,480
gaining life. 
I mean, maybe you might disagree

373
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:45,960
with that point, dear listener. 
You might be a fatigue player 

374
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:51,640
that feels unnecessarily called 
out, but I think like if it's 

375
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,080
very rampant that there's lots 
of decks that are just blocking 

376
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,560
and not attacking some people 
who might not be a fan of that 

377
00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,080
game, they might not find it 
very interesting. 

378
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:05,760
I think that would, I, I think 
if you looked at other TC GS and

379
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:09,200
if that was a dominant strategy 
in those TC GS, people would be 

380
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,680
talking about not picking that 
game up. 

381
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,520
I I guess that's a roundabout 
way of saying yeah, I think it's

382
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:18,440
generally unpopular for pure 
life game defensive strategies 

383
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:19,800
to be dominant. 
Definitely. 

384
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,840
And how would we know if life 
gain is a bad design? 

385
00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:26,760
I'm going to offer up two 
extremes. 

386
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,360
First of all, if life gain isn't
present in the game at all, then

387
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,360
you it would be a failure of a 
design because it's not being 

388
00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:36,080
played right, Right. 
I would. 

389
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,040
You can compare it to maybe like
guardian auras. 

390
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,000
Guardian auras have not been 
hitting the mark for cards that 

391
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,360
are actually played in flesh and
blood, and we don't really think

392
00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:46,880
of them as necessarily super 
good design, at least right now.

393
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:48,880
That maybe that opinion could 
change if we see the right like 

394
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:50,080
Guardian Hero or something. 
Yeah. 

395
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:54,280
True, Sigil Solace is just 
better than half of the cards 

396
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:55,920
that have gained life on them. 
Yeah. 

397
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,840
And Sigil Solace even only sees 
play in some like specific decks

398
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:01,720
that really want the life gain, 
right, Yeah. 

399
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,800
On the other hand, if life gain 
is really prevalent and every 

400
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,560
deck feels like it has to run 
life gain, or there's a deck 

401
00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,720
that can run just life gain to 
the point where the opponent 

402
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,440
doesn't feel like they can deal 
any damage, that would be at an 

403
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,760
unhealthy spot in the meta. 
Yeah, or like if any damage that

404
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,040
they deal just doesn't do 
anything, like what's the point 

405
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,160
of throwing this attack if if 
that is the feeling that the 

406
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,000
other player is having on the 
other side of the table turn 

407
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,200
after turn, that's probably not 
healthy. 

408
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,800
Yeah, so. 
With those being some very broad

409
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:38,360
generalizations as to what the 
what a healthy or unhealthy game

410
00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:39,720
could look like with life gain 
in it. 

411
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,280
I am going to hand things off to
Joel, who's going to talk more 

412
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:46,200
specifically about what flesh, 
blood, and life gain look like 

413
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,680
right now in practice. 
Does me. 

414
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,800
So this pitch is called Joel 
Inge and I think one of our 

415
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:58,400
hosts is overplaying how upset I
am with life gain at the moment.

416
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:00,320
But that's fine. 
I like, I like the title, it's 

417
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,080
fine. 
But I I do think life gain as it

418
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,320
stands is broken in flesh and 
blood. 

419
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:09,080
But I mostly think that because 
of the sources of liking that 

420
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,760
exist and the lack of counters 
to deal with it. 

421
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:16,800
And I will say I think since Cyb
has been nerfed and it's 

422
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,080
continued prevalence, but like 
not dominance the same way that 

423
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,920
it did when there was blue 
copies of this card is changing 

424
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,160
my perspective about life gain 
Because I think the aggressive 

425
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,400
meta that we're in has like a 
built in counter. 

426
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:29,840
But I'll talk about more later 
on. 

427
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,000
The number one reason why I 
think life gain in Flesh and 

428
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,600
Blood is so powerful is because 
decks have a finite amount of 

429
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,640
damage that they can deal. 
Especially if your hero plays in

430
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,520
a way where you need to play 
cards in combination with each 

431
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,440
other to have like explosive 
amounts of damage like room 

432
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,080
blade. 
Or at least when Visseright will

433
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,720
each like chain together non 
attack actions and attack 

434
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:52,800
actions together to have one 
explosive turn. 

435
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,280
Or Rangers who buff their 
singular arrow with a bunch of 

436
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,040
non attacks. 
They can burn through cards 

437
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,160
really quickly and if you gain 
more life than they're able to 

438
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,440
button, then it gets to that 
point of like, like you say, 

439
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,160
Clark, where it doesn't feel 
like you're able to do anything 

440
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,880
and you're just basically 
playing solitaire against 

441
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:11,840
someone who's just gaining a 
shit 10 of life. 

442
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,840
The caveat here is obviously 
weapons exist in Flush of Blood.

443
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,680
There's always that pitch outlet
for decks that have weapons that

444
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,280
just, you know, can chip away at
your opponent over the course of

445
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,480
the game. 
And that's a really good way to 

446
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:29,320
reduce the life gap when someone
all they're doing is blocking 

447
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,360
and gaining life. 
However, a lot of the decks that

448
00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:36,680
abuse life gain have big ass 
weapons like Decimated Grade Axe

449
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,840
or Titan's Fist or a note those 
or something like that. 

450
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:44,160
Like these weapons kind of 
mitigate how much you're able to

451
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:48,000
combat these life gaining decks 
by having bigger and badder 

452
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,560
hammers. 
I just want to go back to a 

453
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,840
point that you mentioned, Joel, 
and that's that flesh and blood 

454
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,680
is unique because decks have a 
finite amount of damage they can

455
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:57,600
deal. 
I know you mentioned that. 

456
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,240
I just wanted to really focus in
on that. 

457
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,200
Any game with a board state like
Hearthstone, Magic the 

458
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,160
Gathering, they all have 
creatures that can attack and 

459
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,600
you get infinite value out of 
anyone card. 

460
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:08,840
True. 
You don't usually think of it 

461
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,360
that way because you're you're 
not actually getting infinite. 

462
00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:13,440
Value. 
But in Flesh and Blood, you play

463
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:14,760
a card. 
It's gone out of your deck 

464
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:16,840
forever. 
It gives you a finite amount of 

465
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,520
hit here, and these weapons are 
a way for your deck to keep 

466
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,120
dealing continual damage. 
The more you swing with your 

467
00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:26,520
weapon, the more that finite 
number goes up, quote UN quote. 

468
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:32,840
Right? 
But life gain is life gain is 

469
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,320
good on the premise that my 
opponent is not going to be 

470
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,960
throwing damage forever and I 
just need to survive until 

471
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,120
they're done. 
Yeah. 

472
00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:41,320
Right. 
If you think of it almost like a

473
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,600
very basic math calculation of 
like if I add up all the numbers

474
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,440
in the bottom left of my 
opponent's deck and then all the

475
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:54,120
numbers in the bottom right in 
my deck plus my life total plus 

476
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:58,160
my gain life. 
If the numbers that I have in my

477
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:02,200
defensive value is larger than 
the numbers that my opponent can

478
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,600
have, then I will always win the
game. 

479
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,400
It's deterministic. 
And like you were saying, Joel, 

480
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,280
it's those big weapons that help
you push the tide. 

481
00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:11,480
You might think that like, you 
have to worry about your 

482
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,200
opponent's life total too. 
But no, you only worry about 

483
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,920
your own life total, your own 
blocking capability. 

484
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,200
And then once they're all 
petered out, then you've 

485
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,000
presumptively won and. 
Then, on the other side of the 

486
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,480
table, we need to find a way of 
of getting as much of that 

487
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,280
repeatable value out of our 
weapon as conceivably possible 

488
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:34,240
to make our number go over their
deterministic number, right? 

489
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,640
And I think those are two really
good distinctions. 

490
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:37,920
So thank you both for bringing 
that up. 

491
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:45,280
However, now Andrew, Exhibit B, 
the World finals of 2024 where 

492
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:50,240
the Enigma player was playing 
CYB with all 9 copies versus I 

493
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,400
think it was Aurora, right? 
Mercy Bickels. 

494
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,400
Aurora. 
Yes, thank you and the reason 

495
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,440
why this example comes up in my 
mind and I I understand that 

496
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,400
blue COIB is no longer an issue,
but this is like one of the most

497
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,040
controversial moments of flesh 
and blood as of late in terms of

498
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,000
like the mechanical parts of 
flesh and blood and less about 

499
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:11,080
the social stuff. 
Because Aurora's weapon swings 

500
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,240
for one as a base 2 if you 
played a lightning card. 

501
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,360
So this weapon is pretty weak A1
for one value unless you're able

502
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:21,400
to play another card. 
But that also means if your 

503
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,400
opponent has full deck knowledge
or full knowledge of your of 

504
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,600
your lips and can count how many
threats you have and how many 

505
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,800
lightning cards you have 
specifically, they're going to 

506
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,320
run out of those. 
And so and then it gets to a 

507
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,640
point where you're only swinging
your weapon for one and maybe 

508
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,000
like generating a rune chant 
with your grass with the arc 

509
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:40,720
knight. 
But that's all you got in terms 

510
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:45,240
of like the repeatable resources
that you have to chip away at 

511
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,160
this life deficit. 
But the enigma player has their 

512
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,360
hero ability where you on each 
turn, if you pitch a chi, you 

513
00:25:52,360 --> 00:25:55,720
can generate a point of defense 
and and I think 2 points of 

514
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,280
offense if you swing with it. 
And you have like access to 

515
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,920
arcane barriers. 
So really as soon as that person

516
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,840
got paired into a roar, it was 
kind of like a done deal. 

517
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,600
Because like you said, Clark, 
the numbers on my bottom right 

518
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,760
outweigh the numbers on my 
opponent's bottom left, plus the

519
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,880
life gain plus my starting 
health pool, plus the virtual 

520
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,920
amount of life that you're 
gaining through prevention 

521
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:18,960
effects. 
So this is like the amalgamation

522
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,480
of all the things that I do not 
like about life gain because it 

523
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,560
gets to a point where the 
weapon, so to speak, or like the

524
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,880
repeatable resource you have out
values your opponents in a late 

525
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:30,760
game where there's no cards left
in deck. 

526
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,280
It's just you have to deal with 
the rest of my life gain and you

527
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,360
don't have any cards left in 
deck to to deal with it. 

528
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,160
Yeah. 
I wrote an article about about 

529
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,520
that specific moment and my 
thoughts on life gain. 

530
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,680
Yep, not long after it. 
Please go read the article on 

531
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,760
the rate of Times. 
Link in the description 

532
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,120
probably. 
Probably. 

533
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:55,880
And in that one I noted how 
Enigma was specifically designed

534
00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:00,080
and well positioned to make the 
best use out of the life game 

535
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,960
that Cyb afforded. 
So Cyb wasn't like the only 

536
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,200
reason that they won there 
because it was Enigma's hero 

537
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:12,800
ability generating offense and 
defense at the same time that 

538
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:17,120
really let Greg or Skowalski 
round the corner and start 

539
00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:20,320
taking over the game again. 
Yeah, and I remember this 

540
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:25,320
sparking a really long drawn out
conversation about like why 

541
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:29,040
fatigue and life game game plans
are so strong. 

542
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,200
And I think Clark, you and I 
were sort of talking afterwards 

543
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,560
and I mentioned one of my 
opinions, which is fatigue decks

544
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,720
when during deck construction 
and not during the actual game 

545
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,800
play. 
Because it's it's the element of

546
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,120
surprise when you sit down 
across from your opponent and 

547
00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:48,240
you expect them to be this like 
mid range gameplay or even 

548
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,440
aggressive gameplay. 
And they completely flip the 

549
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:55,440
tables on you and bring every 
defensive card they can muster 

550
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,400
in their class. 
All the D reacts all the life 

551
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,720
game that they can. 
And now if you don't pick up on 

552
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,440
it early enough, you're already 
at a disadvantage as a aggro 

553
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,480
player trying to fight an uphill
battle. 

554
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,920
I think this is most visible 
when you play against Zarinthia 

555
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,360
who has like the classic dawn 
blade plan, but also like a 

556
00:28:14,360 --> 00:28:17,960
really nice hatchets mid range 
plan, either of which are like 

557
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:19,640
kind of viable. 
And you could maybe see it in 

558
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,200
Armory, but also the decimator 
grade X plan. 

559
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,760
And she could be running Cyb as 
much as she wants, you know? 

560
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,160
And you never really know what 
you're playing against until 

561
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,480
they actually, like, start 
playing cards from their deck. 

562
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,200
Because just revealing the hero 
isn't enough. 

563
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:38,000
Yeah, fatigue also just comes in
with a much longer perspective 

564
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,240
on the game than I think other 
strategies do. 

565
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:46,920
Yes, And if you don't adapt 
quickly then you will easily 

566
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,160
find yourself going oh I didn't 
get enough value out of that one

567
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,760
card that I already played. 
Right, right. 

568
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,280
Yeah. 
If you're not planning for your 

569
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,120
third and 4th cycle like fatigue
decks are, you already lose. 

570
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,880
And life gain is a big portion 
of that because not only do you 

571
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,040
have to abuse the defensive 
overlap that you have access to,

572
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,360
like with D Reacts in the 
Arsenal or you know, like 

573
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,800
Brothers in Arms, being able to 
use a tunic counter to turn into

574
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,480
a block for it can really seem 
like fatigue is the problem. 

575
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,120
But I think fatigue has always 
been around and abusable. 

576
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,440
But I think the life gain 
portion is like one of the 

577
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,760
symptoms of like these decks 
popping up. 

578
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:28,160
I think because at the end of 
the day, the defensive overlap 

579
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,280
that they can provide, like 
Fuzzy mentioned, the way that it

580
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,760
gets around chip damage and 
other evasive forms of damage, 

581
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,960
it can invalidate a lot of the 
value that decks have to feel 

582
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:42,280
like they spec into fatigue. 
Decks don't need to spec for 

583
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,400
aggro. 
They're already specced to beat 

584
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,200
aggro as a strategy, nor do they
really need to spec to beat mid 

585
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,200
range. 
They're already designed to beat

586
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,120
mid range as a strategy, nor do 
they need to. 

587
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:58,200
I mean, they do need to spec for
fatigue mirrors, but I feel like

588
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,560
there's such a small amount of 
the meta game that when the 

589
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,400
fatigue player sits down, they 
don't really need to worry about

590
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,240
what you're playing. 
Yeah, but I think also in saying

591
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:13,400
that Talon would disagree with 
me like our resident fatigue 

592
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,920
player talent and Trent would 
both sit down and say no, I have

593
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,160
to make very major changes both 
to the way I play and the cards 

594
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,160
I include in my list if I want 
to beat certain. 

595
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:24,800
Decks. 
I actually think those are two 

596
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,640
really good examples for 
different reasons that I brought

597
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,080
up already. 
Because the decks that both 

598
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,640
Trent and Talon like to play 
fatigue on, no one in their 

599
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,880
right mind would think maybe, 
maybe Arachne Huntsman. 

600
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:43,200
But like Riptide is probably the
last person I would expect to be

601
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,080
a fatigue deck. 
And because of people like 

602
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,520
talent, it's like more 
normalized I guess. 

603
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,360
But like, I don't think that was
like on anybody's radar really 

604
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:52,680
when they first looked at 
Riptide. 

605
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,160
I don't know. 
He plays defence reactions. 

606
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,200
You know it's right there on the
card, play, defence, reactions. 

607
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:02,120
Gets the extra value from them. 
Yeah, I think it's more of like 

608
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:06,160
this disruptive mid range, you 
know, if you have access to a 

609
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,280
lot of D reacts, you might as 
well just go fatigue. 

610
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,360
Maybe it's more so the intent of
LSS that I have in mind. 

611
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,520
Like I don't think any of them 
wanted to create a fatigue here 

612
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,920
through Riptide. 
Perhaps another way of arguing 

613
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:22,000
your point here, Joel, is that 
Arachne Huntsman Trent's deck 

614
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,520
and Riptide Talon's deck are not
the fatigue decks that are 

615
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:31,960
winning events, right? 
And so zero offense to them. 

616
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,320
They're incredible players, and 
they do incredibly well at our 

617
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:39,320
locals. 
They aren't brutalizing metas 

618
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:43,040
and taking down RTNS, not 
really. 

619
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,480
Which I think leads into your 
next point. 

620
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,200
Yeah, and I, I think what really
strengthens my argument the best

621
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,920
is like the decks that are 
already strong abuse life gain 

622
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,080
for basically no opportunity 
cost. 

623
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,720
And here I'm thinking about 
obviously Enigma because she 

624
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,760
used it to grade a fight to the 
during the world finals, but 

625
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,960
also Nu Nu was also in that same
world's tournament with Cyb, 

626
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:11,080
same top 8, same top 8. 
And she still continues to be 

627
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,640
prevalent, not only because 
gaining life is really good, 

628
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,360
especially when you can do it 
like at instance speed, but Nu 

629
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,960
has the best disruption in the 
game, her mask of recurring 

630
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,760
nightmares, obviously, when 
you're transcending with these 

631
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,600
blue cards. 
And also she still has access to

632
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,640
like surgical Extraction and 
codex of like just a lot of 

633
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,480
really good core cards. 
And when you have a hero like 

634
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:39,760
this, you can easily slot in six
cards to just blow out people 

635
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,400
who only expect to end the game 
in the first or second cycle. 

636
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,360
They're not thinking about the 
third or fourth cycle like you 

637
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,200
mentioned, Clark. 
The opportunity cost for adding 

638
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,560
life gain is also really really 
low when the best life gain 

639
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,640
right now is generic right It's 
Sigil of Solace and Count Your 

640
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,080
Blessings. 
Any deck at the bottom of the 

641
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:03,360
meta that can even remotely go 
to a late game fatigue scenario 

642
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,440
can and probably will run these 
cards and through element of 

643
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,520
surprise or having the right 
meta can easily make it to a top

644
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:19,160
a of an RTN through solid play. 
But sure it feels odd that the 

645
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,800
what they needed to get there 
was so low. 

646
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,640
It was these generic Commons and
rares right? 

647
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,920
And they can. 
You can slap that into any 

648
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,240
bottom of the tier list deck. 
Yeah, every hero has 9 like 

649
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,800
Commons and rares that they 
don't want to play but have to. 

650
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,080
So just take them out for extra 
life and you'll probably get 

651
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:40,280
more out of it. 
Yeah. 

652
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,560
I mean looking back to the 
article that I wrote, I called 

653
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,880
on LSS main design principles 
that they want to do moving 

654
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,920
forward. 
Class and talent identity was 

655
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,000
chief among them, and CYB and 
Sigil of Solace just being this 

656
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,160
nine card to 12 card. 
Just let me dump this in my 

657
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,840
bottom to your deck. 
Completely invalidates that. 

658
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,360
Absolutely. 
It is a little fishy that the 

659
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,160
life game that exists in the 
game is almost exclusively 

660
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,120
generic, Like there's fertile 
ground, like Earth Heroes, I 

661
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,360
guess have been able to play 
around, play around a little bit

662
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,400
with the life game, Yeah. 
They have a lot more life gain 

663
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,040
inherently built in, but. 
They seem almost afraid to have 

664
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,840
a class centered around life 
gain or a hero centered around 

665
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,000
life game. 
So they just stick to putting it

666
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,360
in generic cards and now anyone 
can run it. 

667
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,400
Yeah. 
And they have enough tools now 

668
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,199
in the game that it's reached a 
critical mass. 

669
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:30,360
And you can sit across from any 
hero and watch them play Cyb 

670
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,159
against you and start like 
sweating as you've got to figure

671
00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:35,639
out what am I doing in second, 
third, fourth cycle now I. 

672
00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:38,120
Mean talking about some of these
surprises that have happened 

673
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,639
recently. 
We had a Fang Cyb do pretty 

674
00:34:41,639 --> 00:34:45,199
solidly at some SoCal Armory. 
He made top eight with CYB 

675
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,360
decimeter Fang. 
And then I think Agro Blaze, 

676
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:54,040
another fab content creator, 
took a Cyb Betsy to a top four 

677
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,199
finish. 
Really. 

678
00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:55,840
Yeah. 
Wow. 

679
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:00,200
Also I think BWIPI in our 
discord channel mentioned some 

680
00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:04,400
Australian local taking Cyb 
Betsy to some top eights as 

681
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,360
well. 
Yeah, I think 2 top eights with 

682
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,320
Cyb, Rampart, Betsy, Yeah, so 
the like. 

683
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,880
All you need is one good reason 
in your class or talent. 

684
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,360
Warrior has decimator, guardian 
has rampart. 

685
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,280
Like what else do you need? 
You know right? 

686
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,640
The core is already so strong. 
And the reason why I think this 

687
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,880
is such a big issue with flesh 
and blood, even though it's not 

688
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,920
like the top of the metal, like 
destroying every Armory, every 

689
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,920
RTN, there's not enough life 
gain hate cards yet. 

690
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,120
There's only poison, the well 
and reaping blade, I think. 

691
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,800
And maybe like the scythe, was 
it soul Reaper, Dread scythe? 

692
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:41,840
That's the one. 
So I want to talk a little bit 

693
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,200
about like some ideas that I 
have for life gain hate cards, 

694
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,160
the first of them being potions.
What I like about incorporating 

695
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,080
more potions as life gain hate 
is you can easily slot it in, 

696
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,920
just like you can slot in life 
gain into any deck. 

697
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,440
And you can just sort of have it
like sit on the board and like 

698
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,200
as an instant if you're here or 
if your opponent would gain 

699
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:05,280
life, they get that much or that
much -1 or they lose that that 

700
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,840
much, I don't know. 
That was a hot take. 

701
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,200
I don't think you presented it 
like one, but the idea that like

702
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,920
items are really easy to slot 
into a deck I think is a little 

703
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,800
bit radical. 
Well, I actually really like 

704
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:19,560
this. 
Maybe instead of potions 

705
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,960
talismans. 
Yeah, too right. 

706
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,200
Because at least talismans have 
go again in the way that a lot 

707
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:25,640
of the talismans have been 
designed. 

708
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:31,400
But this idea of I can put my 
hate on the board and then say, 

709
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:35,960
all right, life game player, can
you get me to use this at a bad 

710
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:36,840
time? 
Right. 

711
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,560
I totally agree with that. 
Like having something that sits 

712
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,440
on the board, that's not 
equipment, you know? 

713
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,280
Yeah, it could also let me do it
in response to a source of life 

714
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,000
gain, right, Right. 
Even then, poison the well has a

715
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:53,520
similar issue of like I played 
it in response to your life 

716
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:54,200
game. 
Well guess what? 

717
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,160
I have a second life game to 
play on top of it. 

718
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,320
Yeah, but maybe if we put more 
of those in a deck it could be 

719
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,760
okay. 
Like I see that you have 

720
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,080
countered my counter, but I have
countered your counter to my 

721
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,200
counter. 
Yeah, I just think there's so 

722
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,360
much flexibility with the life 
gain aspect of it. 

723
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:14,720
I think there should be like 
very, very rigid hate against 

724
00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:17,600
life gain cards as well-being 
instant speed makes it so much 

725
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,080
fucking harder. 
Yeah, yeah, it's a little 

726
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,480
ridiculous. 
The other idea I had was like 

727
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,120
equipment. 
I think Reaping Blade is a 

728
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,640
really interesting like game 
changer for Cyb decks. 

729
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:32,600
Reaping Blade only works when I,
the aggressive aggro player, 

730
00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:36,720
have less life than you, the 
defensive fatigue player. 

731
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,440
It's not really going to come up
all that often where my reaping 

732
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:45,640
blade is taking away value. 
This or I and Florian are able 

733
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,200
to leverage it a little bit more
because they can pivot to more 

734
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,760
of a rune chance stacking build 
or build in a more rune chance 

735
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,920
stacking build where it's like 
yes, I am fine going 10 life 

736
00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:00,600
points below you because I can 
then deal 30 points of arcane 

737
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:05,560
damage in a big giant burst. 
But then the life game player 

738
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,200
goes OK, I'm just going to wait 
until I have exactly your life 

739
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,000
total and then play my life 
game. 

740
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,120
Yeah, if anything also is 
specifically Cyb, they're still 

741
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,280
incentivized to play it for no 
value because you're already 

742
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:22,120
burning a bunch of cards. 
Like waiting for the life game 

743
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,720
player to do things. 
Yeah, that's true. 

744
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,560
So, yeah. 
And and that's why I think there

745
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,760
should be another iteration of 
equipment that deals with life 

746
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:35,080
gain because the options that we
have in the equipment slot are 

747
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:39,320
so niche and one of the most 
popular users of Reaping Blade 

748
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,840
just LL. 
So there's already like less 

749
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,520
options that we have now than we
did like a week ago. 

750
00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:47,120
I think you have to be really 
careful with hate cards that 

751
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,080
they are too niche. 
I think like people don't play a

752
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,960
whole lot of poison in the world
right now, even though like you 

753
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:54,760
can pair up against Lifegate at 
any time. 

754
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,240
And I think like that's how you 
know, it's not going to be a 

755
00:38:57,240 --> 00:39:00,640
very helpful hate card is if 
it's not giving you more ways to

756
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,840
play it than hating on that one 
specific strategy. 

757
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:08,880
You know, like null room gloves 
is not a good card, but we run 

758
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,960
it because we have to, right? 
And my game plan gets 

759
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,440
significantly worse because I'm 
running null Room gloves. 

760
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,000
It's an equipment that doesn't 
do anything except help me block

761
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,760
Arcane Barrier. 
You know, if I want I wanted a 

762
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,800
hate card to be effective, I 
would need to put it in my deck 

763
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:24,520
list. 
In order to put it into my deck 

764
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,320
list, I need to imagine at least
maybe multiple games in the 

765
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:29,960
tournament where it's going to 
be helpful. 

766
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,960
It doesn't even have to 
necessarily like win me the game

767
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,520
when I play that card, but as 
long as it's not screwing over 

768
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,880
the rest of my game plan then 
it's an effective hate card. 

769
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:39,440
It needs to do something else 
right? 

770
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,520
The best AB in your arm slot 
isn't nordering gloves, it's 

771
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,000
bullseye bracing. 
Right, because it's in your game

772
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,520
plan, right? 
It's adjacent to your game plan 

773
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:49,560
at the very least. 
Yeah. 

774
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,360
So I think additional text where
it says like if you're upon a 

775
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:56,000
wood game, like maybe on like a 
generic piece, similarly to like

776
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,960
like Crown of Providence makes 
all C&C's worse, Balance of 

777
00:39:59,960 --> 00:40:04,160
Justice makes all Art of Wars 
worse, a generic piece that is 

778
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,880
generically good, and then it 
also makes life gain worse. 

779
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,040
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
I am slightly worried though of 

780
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:14,680
that just becoming another Cano 
situation where it's like well 

781
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:20,160
guess everyone's forgotten about
Cyb, time to break it out but in

782
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:21,920
all my decks again. 
Yeah. 

783
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:27,880
And you know, when you add more 
answers to life gain, you kind 

784
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:32,600
of invite more powerful life 
gain effects to be created. 

785
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,000
So it's a difficult thing to 
balance, and I'm glad I'm not 

786
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,040
the one that has to do it, to be
honest. 

787
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,760
It's something that I've been 
vocal about and I think, you 

788
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:43,920
know, eventually when they do 
print more, I hope that it's 

789
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,360
like really versatile and stuff 
that you like actually run and 

790
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,520
not another situation of like 
poison the well. 

791
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,200
But I think of you apartment 
enough and I'm actually looking 

792
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:57,000
forward to what life gain could 
look like in the future. 

793
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,560
And I think Clark would be the 
perfect person to talk about it 

794
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,680
right now. 
Yes, moving on to Blue Pitch and

795
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,160
the future of life gain, which 
is really just Clark's 

796
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,680
opportunity to talk about 
different design ideas that I 

797
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:13,240
think they could use to 
incorporate life and life as a 

798
00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:15,760
resource. 
Because honestly, the future of 

799
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:19,720
life gain I think is pretty dull
and uninteresting. 

800
00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:22,800
I don't think they should print 
a lot more life gain and I think

801
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:26,400
they should try to minimize its 
impact in the game altogether. 

802
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:31,480
I do not like gaining life as a 
player, as a dev or someone who 

803
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:36,560
likes to play dev on my podcast.
That's a good line. 

804
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,320
I also don't really like life 
game. 

805
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:46,080
It prolongs the game and unless 
it is incorporated in some 

806
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:51,000
proactive element I don't think 
it has much of A place. 

807
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,480
It can't exist. 
It shouldn't be a lot. 

808
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,880
So the first thing I want to do 
is really take a look at what 

809
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,960
LSS has been doing because I 
think they've been really 

810
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:05,080
inconsistent with life gain. 
Fuzzy already mentioned in red 

811
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:10,360
pitch how it was all action 
speed or like only over two 

812
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,720
turns, right? 
You had to like play an item and

813
00:42:12,720 --> 00:42:17,080
then activate the item or it's 
just none of them ever had go 

814
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,040
again. 
And now all of a sudden all the 

815
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:23,040
life gain is instant speed and 
really hard to interact with. 

816
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,200
So there's that inconsistency. 
But then there's also just an 

817
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,680
inconsistency with rates and 
synergies. 

818
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,880
Fertile Ground is conditionally 
on rate. 

819
00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:36,640
Looking at Sigil of Solace as 
our baseline. 

820
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:43,400
A0 cost instant gain 3. 
Fertile Ground is A2 cost gain 5

821
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,600
if you have 4 or more earth 
cards in your bandage zone. 

822
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:52,280
So you need to decompose at 
least twice before fertile 

823
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:57,760
ground becomes an on rate card. 
You know, with Earth, ice and 

824
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,600
lightning talents, I think it's 
also helpful to remember that 

825
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,280
just having the Earth tag makes 
them really good, you know? 

826
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,280
Yeah, still adds value to the 
car. 

827
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,960
Sigilos solace is not going to 
turn on my decompose effects, 

828
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:11,120
you know fertile ground will. 
So that makes it like. 

829
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:13,720
Even a little bit better. 
Yeah, Yeah, sure. 

830
00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:16,480
So even when I say on rate that 
there's a little bit of extra 

831
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,680
value in there because it says 
Earth at the bottom, Earth rate.

832
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,800
Yeah, it's Earth rate. 
But then there's CYB, which is 

833
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,920
wildly over rate and self 
synergizes. 

834
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:31,800
Now I know that multiple people 
have evaluated CYB in multiple 

835
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:32,560
different ways. 
You're. 

836
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,520
Telling me that CYB is strong I 
have gotten into. 

837
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:40,800
Arguments with multiple people 
on the Internet about the way 

838
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:45,800
that we evaluate CYB. 
Here is my base evaluation of 

839
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:49,560
it, which is looking at how the 
rate of the individual card 

840
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:54,560
played, which is that CYB is 
under rate for the first cast, 

841
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,640
is under rate for the second 
cast, is on rate for the third 

842
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:03,600
cast, and then is over rate for 
the 4th, 5th, 6th, and if Blues 

843
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,360
are available, 7th, 8th, and 
9th. 

844
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:11,200
It is overrate for the vast 
majority of times you play the 

845
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,720
card. 
And if you noted there that's 

846
00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:20,120
two underrate and 123456 times 
overrate. 

847
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:24,120
It is three times more likely to
be overrate than underrate in a 

848
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:29,400
game of flesh and blood. 
I guess I never really thought 

849
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,320
about it like that. 
No, nobody does. 

850
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:36,240
It frustrates me so much because
that's why Cyb creates so much 

851
00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:40,200
life gain and so much defensive 
overlap and is so easy to slot 

852
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:44,520
into decks because it doesn't 
just go a little over rate like 

853
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:48,400
some Majestics do. 
It goes really over rate when 

854
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:52,080
you're using 2 cards to gain. 
What's the Max amount of life? 

855
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:58,080
3 + 811 you can use two cards to
gain 11 life conceivably. 

856
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:02,160
That is wildly overrate. 
Yes. 

857
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:03,440
You have to do a lot to get 
there. 

858
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,840
I understand it's a big quest. 
It takes the whole game. 

859
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:09,920
And it's also, even though we 
can't play all 9 copies right 

860
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,640
now in CC, James White has 
stated that eventually he's 

861
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,280
going to unban the blue 1. 
So it's worth thinking about 

862
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,640
like, what will the design look 
like when we get there? 

863
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,880
What would it take for a design 
like this to become fair? 

864
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:27,960
Yes now also with this in 
Rosetta they printed 2 majestics

865
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:32,920
for our earth heroes that get 
double the value of the life you

866
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,960
have gained. 
It either makes room chance 

867
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:40,480
equal to the amount of life you 
gained or it amps equal to the 

868
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:44,680
amount of life you gained. 
This is Rampant growth life and 

869
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:49,000
Thistle bloom life. 
These are cards that, by design,

870
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,880
ask you to find the way to gain 
the most amount of life in a 

871
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:57,960
single instance. 
Now, one thing that I do like 

872
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,000
about Thistlebloom Life 
specifically is that it's an 

873
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:05,280
action to get that double value.
So you have to play your instant

874
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:09,360
speed stuff at action speed, 
which then makes it interactable

875
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,960
because, like, actually matters.
CNC actually matters. 

876
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:18,400
I'm so happy that these cards 
actually fucking matter when the

877
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:23,280
payoff cards are actions, Yeah, 
because it makes me want to play

878
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,440
the life gain at action speed. 
It makes me want to play it on 

879
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,480
my turn, and that makes it way 
more interactable and way 

880
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:33,080
healthier. 
But you can see how these four 

881
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,920
different designs that came out 
in Rosetta aren't exactly jiving

882
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,400
with each other. 
They're all interacting on 

883
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,600
wildly different Nexuses and 
played in wildly different ways.

884
00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:47,880
Another thing that I think we 
could look at is Levaya Plasma 

885
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:50,720
FET consumed, which I know is a 
weird card to put in here, like 

886
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:53,720
we're talking about life totals.
Clark, how did you manage to 

887
00:46:53,720 --> 00:46:56,320
bring up Levaya in this 
conversation? 

888
00:46:56,720 --> 00:46:59,040
That's our skill, baby. 
I'm used to it by now. 

889
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,320
Just go on, keep going. 
These new users don't even 

890
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:03,440
remember the beginning of the 
pile. 

891
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,760
Clark, like, had only played 
Levaya. 

892
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:11,840
Seriously, it was just like. 
So here's how Levias influenced 

893
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,000
but. 
If you're new to the pod, it's 

894
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,320
actually just a Levias Bolton 
podcast. 

895
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,880
That's the joke slash we've. 
Actually grown a lot from that 

896
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,400
stigma, I'm not gonna lie. 
Yeah, you've now expanded to all

897
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:28,280
other warriors. 
Oh, shut up now. 

898
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,040
Levioplasm effect consumed cares
about you staying above a 

899
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:38,920
certain life total and having to
plan your equipment block around

900
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:43,960
that life total so that you can 
find the space to transform into

901
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:48,480
this super powerful version and 
get this extra proactive effect.

902
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:53,000
I really really like that design
and I think it would be 

903
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:57,720
interesting if we saw similar 
threshold based designs that 

904
00:47:57,720 --> 00:48:00,800
played off of this. 
Maybe something like Death's 

905
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:05,240
Door which would only give you 
an effect if you are below 10 

906
00:48:05,240 --> 00:48:07,600
life. 
And this is, this is a mechanic 

907
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:09,760
here spitballing, right? 
You're making up on the spot. 

908
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:12,560
Yes, I definitely did not write 
this out in the notes. 

909
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:14,320
You're not referencing. 
You're not referencing an 

910
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,080
existing card. 
No, no I'm not. 

911
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:22,600
So this mechanical idea would 
encourage you to play around a 

912
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:27,080
specific life threshold to gain 
this additional benefit. 

913
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,200
I really like this idea, the 
idea that as a life game player 

914
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:35,880
or a fatigue player that the my 
game gets a lot more interesting

915
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:37,840
when I go really low in my life 
total. 

916
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:40,680
I think to make it a more 
interesting number, I would put 

917
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,600
it at like 5 life. 
I think 5 is when it actually 

918
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,560
gets interesting because that's 
actually like any attack can be 

919
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:48,600
lethal, you know? 
Yeah, like there are definitely 

920
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:50,920
decks where like if you're at 
10, you're at lethal range, but 

921
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,400
a fatigue player is probably not
worried about being at 10. 

922
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:57,560
They're like, OK, I've got a lot
of fight lifted me, but at five 

923
00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:59,920
life it starts to get real. 
Yeah, yeah. 

924
00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:01,520
At Five Life, the Agri player 
has hope. 

925
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:05,840
Maybe it could even be in a 
middle life total, right? 

926
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,480
Maybe it's like if you're 
between 10 and 15 life. 

927
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,240
Yeah, it could even be like 
indirect life gain where instead

928
00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:15,320
of gaining life you return to a 
threshold you were the previous 

929
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,880
turn. 
Sort of like a like tree of 

930
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,280
perdition from matching the 
gathering. 

931
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:22,120
We trade life points or 
something. 

932
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:25,680
That's great, but I already hate
that card for completely 

933
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:27,360
unrelated reasons. 
We will not get into it. 

934
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:31,320
Whatever said the fuck you. 
Let's just say that all my 

935
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:33,800
friends are dead to me whenever 
I think about that card. 

936
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:37,440
We were kind of assholes that 
day a little bit. 

937
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:38,840
Oh my. 
God we were not. 

938
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:48,000
It's fine, bygones are better as
long as I just don't hear about 

939
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:51,840
tree of fucking prediction. 
I'm not reminded of talent 

940
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,880
backstabbing me. 
I'm. 

941
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:57,680
Definitely asking about this 
later. 

942
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:03,960
I also think that incremental 
life gain as a reward for your 

943
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,720
proactive strategy that you're 
already trying to do is very 

944
00:50:06,720 --> 00:50:10,160
fine. 
For example, 0 for three stealth

945
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:14,120
attacks are kind of lame, but if
I gain a life when they banish 

946
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,440
something, they're a lot less 
lame. 

947
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:21,200
And I like this strategy. 
I actually like a lot of news, 

948
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:24,720
common and rare 0 for three 
banish a cards. 

949
00:50:24,720 --> 00:50:26,920
If I banish a specific type of 
card I get in a life. 

950
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,000
It's kind of a nice design 
pattern because like a 0 for 

951
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:33,520
four, it's hard to block. 
A 0 for three that gains me life

952
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,080
when it hits is still just four 
points, but it's easier to 

953
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:37,520
block. 
You know, it has a little bit 

954
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:39,160
more counter play to it. 
Yeah. 

955
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,520
And then I get to play all the 
self card synergies which are 

956
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:43,200
way better than the contract 
card synergies. 

957
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:46,160
Yeah, you're the designer's 
allowed to layer on more value 

958
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:48,880
onto the card in other ways 
because they've created a four 

959
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:50,880
value card that is easier to 
block. 

960
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:55,440
Yeah, it reminds me of my 
necromancer design all the way 

961
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:59,240
back in episode 19. 
Damn, where I had a 0 for three 

962
00:50:59,240 --> 00:51:03,400
attack that scaled color wise 
not with its power but with how 

963
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,600
much life it gained when it hit,
it was a 0 for three that could 

964
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:10,040
gain 3 life at red, two life at 
yellow, and one life at blue. 

965
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:16,920
So incremental life gain for 
already playing into a strategy 

966
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:20,800
feels fine to me. 
Because life gain isn't the 

967
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:25,400
goal, it's an incremental 
benefit and it encourages 

968
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,880
interaction between the players.
Yeah, and for similar reasons, 

969
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:32,440
and I'm going to cash in my Joel
chip because I'm going to bring 

970
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,960
a Bolton Lumen. 
Ascension is not broken or 

971
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,440
people don't call it broken 
because of the life gain for 

972
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,960
each card you put in Seoul. 
That's just like a benefit. 

973
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,880
You get to it. 
Like, there's other larger 

974
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,240
things that play when you play 
this card, and that's just like 

975
00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:48,000
the incremental life gain that 
just makes it a little bit 

976
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:49,960
sweeter for Bolton. 
Yeah, it makes it a little bit 

977
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:52,520
sweeter, helps the math out a 
little bit more, lets you take 

978
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,240
damage to play the cool 
proactive card right. 

979
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:58,280
Those are things that I'm 
ultimately fine with and I think

980
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,560
is a better space for life gain.
I don't want to see cards that 

981
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:06,000
are gaining 10 life, 12 life, 
double digits, big numbers. 

982
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:08,240
Yeah. 
And like playing into these 

983
00:52:08,240 --> 00:52:12,200
Earth majestics, I much rather 
they just let that die. 

984
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:15,000
Yeah. 
And instead focus on smaller, 

985
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:16,960
incremental amounts of life 
gain. 

986
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:18,920
It's kind of like arcane damage,
right? 

987
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,360
You need to be careful about 
printing things that, say, deal 

988
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,640
5 or 6 arcane damage. 
Yeah. 

989
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:28,720
And you can be a lot less 
restrained with things that deal

990
00:52:28,720 --> 00:52:32,040
one arcane damage. 
Big numby not always better. 

991
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,400
If anything, it makes it way 
harder to design. 

992
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:37,440
Around big numby bad. 
Big numby bad. 

993
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:41,600
The one place I think that 
larger amounts of life gain can 

994
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:47,160
work is if it is paired with 
strategies that make you pay 

995
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:51,120
life to do things. 
If there are attacks that make 

996
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:56,280
me have to pay life to cast 
them, then I should have larger 

997
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:59,200
amounts of life game to let me 
play those things. 

998
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:03,240
Almost like the sigil of solace 
is acting like the blue that 

999
00:53:03,240 --> 00:53:08,200
fuels me playing the card. 
I can gain the life to then pay 

1000
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:12,280
the life and cast something. 
Does sound pretty badass, yes. 

1001
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:15,280
Do we think that would be 
healthy for the game? 

1002
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:17,800
Maybe. 
With the way that LSS has been 

1003
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:21,400
pumping out these newer modern 
flesh and blood heroes, I think 

1004
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:27,480
it could be balanced if there's 
a deep enough quest to get this 

1005
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,360
using life as a resource effect 
because we've seen how powerful 

1006
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:34,560
it can be in other games like 
Magic the Gathering. 

1007
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,960
You only need one life to win 
and you will go to one just to 

1008
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,000
like, you know? 
Freecast everything, yeah. 

1009
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,520
Exactly. 
So I think you need to really be

1010
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,800
careful because life points are 
the most important resource in 

1011
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:50,000
flesh and blood and playing with
that you I think there needs to 

1012
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:53,480
be a pretty significant cost to 
be able to have that effect. 

1013
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:55,960
I don't know, we kind of already
see life as a resource in the 

1014
00:53:55,960 --> 00:54:01,760
shadow Talent like Levia Chain 
and Vincette all give you the 

1015
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:06,880
opportunity to take extra damage
in order to see higher ceilings.

1016
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,760
Vincette can just sit there on 
like 2 Blood Debt Rune Gate 

1017
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:13,840
cards and have in the future 
turn like a 7 or 8 card hand and

1018
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:15,320
it can be really good. 
That's kind of what we're 

1019
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,800
talking about, right? 
Is taking life in order to have 

1020
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:21,160
more damage come through? 
Yeah, and I actually think like 

1021
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:24,240
Shadow is one of the most 
powerful talents for that 

1022
00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:28,840
reason, because Chain obviously 
was very strong because he hit. 

1023
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:30,960
I mean, obviously this is like 
early LSS design. 

1024
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,080
I'm not going to like beat that 
horse anymore. 

1025
00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:36,400
But him being able to stack up a
bunch of attacks in Blood Dead 

1026
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:40,760
that we're all like 043044 some 
of them with go again was 

1027
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:42,800
inherently powerful. 
And I think Clark and I have 

1028
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:47,000
talked to great extent how when 
Leviah rolls really well, she 

1029
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:50,160
can be one of the most broken 
ears in the game with a multiple

1030
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:54,040
1 costed 6 power attacks extra 
action points with Skatskin 

1031
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:56,520
Leathers, although that's not 
directly shadow. 

1032
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:59,560
But there's these things that 
like compounded value, and 

1033
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:03,680
that's why she feels incomplete 
a lot of the times because she 

1034
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:07,840
has access to so much tools. 
And Vincent feels hamstrung in a

1035
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:10,600
way because of Room Gate 
preventing her from playing 

1036
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:14,360
multiple cards without very 
precise planning ahead of time. 

1037
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,000
And using your life as a 
resource to store those two 

1038
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:19,080
Blood Deck cards you know in 
Vanish. 

1039
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:24,040
I think with all that being 
said, I think it is time for us 

1040
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:26,720
to move on to our Arsenal zone 
or what? 

1041
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:29,480
It's the part of the podcast 
where we all talk about a card 

1042
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:32,600
that we've been thinking about 
lately for whatever reason we 

1043
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:33,600
want. 
That one. 

1044
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,960
And we like to start off our 
Arsenal zone by shouting out a 

1045
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:43,320
Patreon member. 
Yeah, so we didn't plug the 

1046
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:45,320
Patreon at the beginning of the 
episode, so I guess we're going 

1047
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:48,200
to do it here. 
We have a Patreon Where? 

1048
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:52,880
At the five or $10 tier, you 
have the ability to send in card

1049
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,520
suggestions. 
We take a look at everyone who 

1050
00:55:55,520 --> 00:56:00,480
sent in a suggestion, and then 
we roll the dice and we randomly

1051
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:04,040
select one person's card to get 
shout out here in the Arsenal 

1052
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:07,960
zone. 
And for today, that lucky 

1053
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:13,640
subscriber is. 
Dice roll noise. 

1054
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:21,000
Moving. 
I've actually met this guy twice

1055
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,280
now, in person, in the flesh and
blood. 

1056
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:25,960
Black. 
Yeah, we're a big fan of Mulvane

1057
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:27,720
over here. 
He actually came down to an 

1058
00:56:27,720 --> 00:56:32,080
Armory of ours and fucking 
decimated me with Riptide. 

1059
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,000
Thanks for that by the way. 
Bro, he's so good with that. 

1060
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:39,000
And he shouted out Death Dealer 
this week. 

1061
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:42,680
He says this card is insane, 
especially after the book 

1062
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:44,520
bannings one resource to draw a 
card. 

1063
00:56:44,720 --> 00:56:47,960
Yeah, you spend a card on the 
load, but then it just replaces 

1064
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:49,720
itself. 
Pretty crazy weapon. 

1065
00:56:49,720 --> 00:56:52,160
I guess it's to make up for the 
fact that the Ranger class 

1066
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:55,200
doesn't have a weapon that deals
damage itself. 

1067
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:56,640
And I think he said something 
else. 

1068
00:56:56,640 --> 00:57:00,320
No, that was it. 
Yeah, this is a This is a juicy 

1069
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:03,200
little card to talk about. 
Yeah, I'm surprised we actually 

1070
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:05,520
haven't talked about this card 
before. 

1071
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,120
And then Geno Jack actually 
responded to that suggestion, 

1072
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:10,960
Geno Jack said. 
Especially if there's a footnote

1073
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:13,600
for snapshot interactions or the
looming threat of Trish. 

1074
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:16,360
Oh dude yeah, snapshot with this
card. 

1075
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:21,880
Yeah, jumping into discussing 
Death Dealer, I agree, Mulvane, 

1076
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:26,040
the card's pretty insane because
it can even a lot of a lot of 

1077
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:29,520
the times be a free card if you 
pitch a resource card into it. 

1078
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:33,800
If a lot of people have talked 
about how gold is the payoff for

1079
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:37,280
Warriors, because you can turn 
that blue into like a floating 

1080
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:41,280
resource and a red, and Rangers 
have just always been able to do

1081
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:43,280
that with that dealer. 
Yeah, that's all. 

1082
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:46,960
They've just always been able to
be like pitch a yellow, load a 

1083
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:48,800
card. 
I have one floating into new red

1084
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:50,680
in hand. 
And because their cards are so 

1085
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:54,080
cheap already, like a lot of 
their pumps cost 0, their arrows

1086
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:56,480
cost what like maybe one 
resource. 

1087
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:00,120
So like lately, like Azalea 
players have been like stitching

1088
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:03,000
all of their Blues except for 
Knock the Death Whistle and just

1089
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:04,480
playing like a very yellow line 
list. 

1090
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:07,200
I pitch a yellow into Death 
Dealer, I use my resource for my

1091
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:09,960
arrow, and I get the extra card 
that's just going to be a red 

1092
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:12,200
that I can pump. 
Yeah, that's actually been a 

1093
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:15,120
trend in Azalea for a long time.
One of my really good friends 

1094
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:18,120
that actually got me started in 
flesh and blood, Mitch. 

1095
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:21,760
Hey, they got awesome. 
Yeah, all of us really. 

1096
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:25,720
Mitch, Mitch from Finch, he 
always told me like you really 

1097
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:27,240
don't need yellows as this 
character. 

1098
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:29,480
You really don't need Blues as 
this character. 

1099
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:33,840
Yellows pay for everything, the 
the the weapon itself and the 

1100
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:36,040
arrow. 
And now that she has like this 

1101
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:40,480
really good critical mass of 1 
costed arrows and all the buffs 

1102
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:43,400
are still really strong and 0 
costed, it just allows you to 

1103
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:46,880
run like the only the best cards
in your deck. 

1104
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:49,920
You don't really need to concern
yourself with Blues or even blue

1105
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:52,600
arrows. 
It's just all gas, no brakes. 

1106
00:58:53,000 --> 00:59:00,480
Mulvane, thank you so much for 
your patronage and for sending 

1107
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:01,960
in Death Dealer for us to talk 
about. 

1108
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:04,720
I don't think we've ever really 
spent that much time talking 

1109
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:08,880
about the Ranger class outside 
of Riptide, because Kellen is 

1110
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,520
kind of our main Ranger guy and 
he's all about Riptide. 

1111
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:16,200
So it's wonderful to get the 
chance to expand our purview and

1112
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,960
talk about these cards that we 
don't get to interact with a 

1113
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,640
lot, right? 
And I'm sure that many of you 

1114
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:24,960
out there have your own cards, 
like a debt dealer where you're 

1115
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:28,760
like, this is one of the cards 
that shape the way I think about

1116
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:32,280
flesh and blood right now. 
But we're not talking about it 

1117
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:35,240
because we aren't around it in 
the same way that you are. 

1118
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:39,800
So if you decide to, we're in 
our Patreon, please tell us 

1119
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:44,240
about these cards so that we can
get those ideas on this section 

1120
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:48,520
and we can talk about them. 
Yeah, so now each of us are 

1121
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:50,600
going to shout out a card. 
Who wants to go first? 

1122
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:53,280
Let's hear from RTN winner Joel 
Racino, who's. 

1123
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:58,680
So I have a card today that I 
didn't use at all during that 

1124
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:03,440
day where I won the RTN Wow. 
And that is Cosmic Awakening. 

1125
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:06,640
I've had a tough relationship 
with cosmic Awakening recently 

1126
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:10,120
because. 
There were several matches in 

1127
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:14,640
very important matchups where 
all I needed was to find my 

1128
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:17,960
second copy of Cosmic Awakening 
that I can play for 15 or 20 or 

1129
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:20,280
whatever because I have so much 
T left in my deck. 

1130
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:23,760
The deck's grinding to a close 
and I need to end it before I 

1131
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:28,520
get ended, right? 
And leading up to this RTM that 

1132
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:31,760
I won, I only had two copies 
because I was following like 

1133
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:35,120
this deck list on YouTube of a 
YouTube that I really like 

1134
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:37,720
Aurora from Flesh and blood. 
I don't know if you guys have 

1135
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:40,040
watched them at all. 
I think they were like a little 

1136
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:42,240
bit down on Cosmic Awakening 
because the meta is so 

1137
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:45,040
aggressive. 
But me, I was like, my meta has 

1138
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:48,120
a lot of slow decks. 
We have like enigma diehards, we

1139
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:51,000
have like guardian diehards. 
We have people that just want to

1140
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:53,360
shove Cyb and decimated great 
acts into decks. 

1141
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:56,320
So I was like, I need that third
copy of Cosmic Awakening. 

1142
01:00:56,440 --> 01:01:00,800
And then during the RTNI had 
multiple opportunity to play it 

1143
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:05,080
for like 10 or 15. 
And even though I love slamming 

1144
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:08,840
this card for 10 and 15, it just
wasn't the right move. 

1145
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:11,360
And overall, which I liked as a 
blue three block. 

1146
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:15,360
And it was funny because in my 
finals game, I was really hoping

1147
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:18,520
to close out the game versus 
Tow, Tow with Cosmic Awakening. 

1148
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:21,800
But. 
I one time I cast this card all 

1149
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:24,080
tournament was to win the 
tournament. 

1150
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:27,200
That would've been fucking dope,
but instead I lost a copy to 

1151
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:30,080
Ancestral Harmony. 
I lost a copy to one of his 

1152
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:32,240
banished effects and I had to 
block with a third one. 

1153
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:35,960
So even though I didn't get to 
use it like basically all day, 

1154
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:39,960
it's probably one of my favorite
cards of the Mystic talents 

1155
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:43,600
because it sort of means you 
can't fatigue any of these 

1156
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:47,680
heroes and I like aggressive 
decks that have this mid rangey 

1157
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:50,160
gameplay, which is what Zen 
really encompassed. 

1158
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:53,480
Well, it's not like he's gone. 
He still does that. 

1159
01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:56,680
I expected him to tell already, 
but it's one of my favorite 

1160
01:01:56,680 --> 01:01:59,040
parts because you can be 
aggressive, you can be mid 

1161
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:02,120
rangey, and then randomly at the
end of the game you can send 

1162
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:06,240
something for 15 with inherently
bad cards, especially if you're 

1163
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:08,560
running low on combo cards. 
So yeah, that's the card I 

1164
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:13,080
wanted to shout out because I 
placed a lot of importance and 

1165
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:16,240
included 1/3 copy and took out 
probably some other cards that I

1166
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:18,720
could have really used and 
didn't get to use it at all. 

1167
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:19,760
So I thought that was really 
funny. 

1168
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:22,960
Clerk, you're doing go next. 
I'll be nice and quick with my 

1169
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:25,000
card. 
I'm talking about Arc Lightning.

1170
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:29,360
It is a yellow 0 cost 2 block 
card that is lightning room 

1171
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:31,400
blade. 
It's an Aurora specialization 

1172
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:35,400
and says whenever go again 
resolves deal one arcane damage.

1173
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:39,240
It also gives your next action 
card that you play go again and 

1174
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:44,560
it has go again itself. 
This card can very very easily 

1175
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:49,680
get 3 value on a turn, extremely
easily get 3 value on a turn, 

1176
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:56,280
and that's already better than a
yellow head jab Like even at its

1177
01:02:56,280 --> 01:03:00,680
floor it is incredibly good 
right? 

1178
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:03,480
Like it's only bad as a one card
play. 

1179
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:06,480
Oh no, like it's bad as a one 
card play. 

1180
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:13,040
I'm so scared like even if it's 
this and a blue that's still arc

1181
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:16,120
lightning pitch to grasp swing 
sword. 

1182
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:20,200
Yeah. 
That's still 123 sources of 

1183
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:23,960
arcane damage. 
And then the sword for two. 

1184
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:26,440
And then the sword for two. 
So it's a 2 card 5. 

1185
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:30,560
With the rune chant that you 
made, it's a 2 card, 6 off of a 

1186
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:31,960
yellow and a blue. 
Oh yeah. 

1187
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:36,280
Yeah, like it's floor is still 
incredibly high. 

1188
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:41,400
And I've heard people say like, 
actually this card like isn't 

1189
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:44,280
even that good. 
It's not incredible to like 

1190
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:47,160
build your entire deck around it
and then try to like make the 

1191
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:50,360
fleckerwisk combo happen. 
But also you can just do that 

1192
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:53,640
with this card. 
You can just like play 3 crazy 

1193
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:57,840
brews and healing pots and 
potions of strength so that you 

1194
01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:01,720
just go flicker risk fuse arc 
lightning and then you just 

1195
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:05,480
activate ten sources of go again
to destroy your. 

1196
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:08,440
Oh, get the activated ability as
going. 

1197
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:12,760
Yeah, that's so funny. 
All the activated abilities of 

1198
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:19,600
potions and gold tokens and 
equipment and weapons now just 

1199
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:22,120
have one extra value plastered 
onto them. 

1200
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:26,280
This card can easily reach the 
six arcane damage that I would 

1201
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:30,320
have to set up multiple 
interactable malefic on my board

1202
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:34,080
with and hit like a rune Chan 
generator in my hand on the same

1203
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:36,800
turn. 
Like a Revel or a Deadwood Dirge

1204
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:41,040
for my Mordrtide. 
But Mordrtide was a red card and

1205
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:44,240
this is a yellow. 
Arclighting is really fucking 

1206
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:48,040
strong and if Aurora becomes the
best deck in format like these 

1207
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:52,480
last little RTN results may 
imply they are, I think this 

1208
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:55,080
could become the next card in 
the crosshairs for a ban. 

1209
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:58,560
Interesting. 
What about you, Fuzzy? 

1210
01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:00,320
You've been pretty quiet over 
there. 

1211
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:03,720
Yeah, so I have been playing a 
whole lot of Flesh and blood 

1212
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:05,080
lately. 
I've still been kind of enjoying

1213
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:07,000
my little break off. 
The closest I've come to 

1214
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:10,800
building a deck just to like jam
Montalachar was when I was like,

1215
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:12,440
I don't even know why I was 
looking through. 

1216
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:14,680
I think I was editing our 
episode where we talked about 

1217
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:17,520
delayed value and I was looking 
at all the guardian auras 

1218
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:19,120
because we were talking about 
guardian auras. 

1219
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:23,040
And I saw one that I always 
like, wish was playable, and 

1220
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:27,080
that's Emboldened. 
Oh, that. 

1221
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:30,440
This was draft chaff that I've 
don't really talk about a lot 

1222
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:32,200
but it's always been one of my 
favorite cards. 

1223
01:05:32,680 --> 01:05:38,280
Embolden is A4 cost guardian 
action aura with go again and 

1224
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:41,840
when it enters the arena if you 
control another non token aura 

1225
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:44,480
you draw a card and at the 
beginning of your action phase 

1226
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:47,600
you destroy embolden and then 
the next guardian attack action 

1227
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:51,400
card that you play this turn 
gains plus 5 power and this aura

1228
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:55,120
blocks for three so without the 
drawing. 

1229
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:58,200
A card you're. 
Paying 4 for the aura with go 

1230
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:00,880
again to give +5 to your next 
attack. 

1231
01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:04,600
That's a lot of tempo you're 
giving up to play this card just

1232
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:07,880
to get plus 5, which isn't the 
worst thing in the world, 

1233
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:10,960
especially when you pair it with
some really cool guardian cards.

1234
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:13,680
Like all the crush effects have 
these really nice on hits. 

1235
01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:16,480
Or maybe like thump, which was 
from the same set, Tales of 

1236
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:18,280
Aria. 
Oh, we thumping where you can 

1237
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:21,720
like give the thump, dominate 
and discard a card on hit just 

1238
01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:23,520
because you pump the thump. 
You'd be a thump. 

1239
01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:26,520
What a great little turn of 
phrase. 

1240
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:29,240
So. 
Naturally, say you're pouring 

1241
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:30,200
for your. 
Chaff, right? 

1242
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:33,880
You see Embolden, you're like, 
okay, So what guardian auras can

1243
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:36,920
I play in order to get the card 
draw off of Embolden? 

1244
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:39,840
And if you're looking through 
the Guardian pool, there's some 

1245
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:43,760
go again auras, but there's not 
a whole lot of them. 

1246
01:06:44,120 --> 01:06:48,720
The big ones I think are 
actually in the talented pool if

1247
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:52,680
you're an Oldham player or a new
Yarrow player. 

1248
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:55,880
There is some really good. 
Auras that are already being 

1249
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:59,000
played by Guardian now, such as 
channel like Frigid. 

1250
01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:01,960
Yeah, that's only cost curve 
channel. 

1251
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:04,080
Like frigid cost 2 and this cost
4 so you could. 

1252
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:06,520
Pitch 2 Blues to play channel 
like Frigid, ruin your 

1253
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:08,720
opponent's day, and then 
immediately follow up with 

1254
01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:11,920
Embolden which punishes your 
opponent for not being able to 

1255
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:14,080
to play their whole hand. 
Because now that you've set up 

1256
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:17,440
Emboldened, don't you want to 
protect your aura? 

1257
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:19,200
That way you can cash it in on 
the next turn. 

1258
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:22,680
How are they supposed to punish 
you for playing Emboldened when 

1259
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:23,960
you have channel like Frigid 
out? 

1260
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:26,720
I know you just kept a four card
hand. 

1261
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:29,640
You probably had to take a bunch
of damage to do that. 

1262
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:32,200
Yeah, but you have channel like 
Frigid out so. 

1263
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:34,400
So you may have given them a 
frostbite. 

1264
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:39,080
Yeah, that's really good. 
It's yeah, not that bad, 

1265
01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:40,600
especially. 
Because we're already playing 

1266
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:43,720
channel like Frigid in NRL list,
you would also do like channel 

1267
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:46,840
Mount ISON and then A. 
Blue plus a fine dolls and get 

1268
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:48,960
this same turn off on a three 
card hand. 

1269
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:52,720
Yeah, admittedly a little bit 
less disruptive and you have to 

1270
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:54,760
run tunic, which like in 
Guardian. 

1271
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:57,600
There might be other stuff that 
you want to run, yeah, but a lot

1272
01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:01,000
of guardians like Tunic I've. 
Definitely heard guardians are 

1273
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:04,040
like, well, am IA tunic guardian
or am IA tectonic plating 

1274
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:05,200
guardian. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1275
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:08,040
So that's what I've been 
thinking about lately. 

1276
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:11,600
I saw this combo channel like 
Frigid in Embolden and I was 

1277
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:15,120
close to building it on Talosar,
but you couldn't pry me away 

1278
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:17,640
from all the editing I've been 
doing for the last couple weeks.

1279
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:22,160
So maybe if I'm lucky, I'll. 
Get to maybe like sleeve up 

1280
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:24,000
Yarl. 
I don't want to buy a $60.00 

1281
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:25,640
fucking Armory deck to put 
Embolden. 

1282
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:26,800
Well, that's fine. 
I already did. 

1283
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:28,600
You can just take it from me. 
Yeah. 

1284
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:30,880
Yeah, I would love to do that 
sometime, maybe at a future. 

1285
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:32,040
Armory. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1286
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:35,120
So I brought a copy of. 
Embolden for each of you 

1287
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:36,479
because. 
I like to do that here on the 

1288
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:39,000
podcast, One for you and one for
you. 

1289
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:41,680
Thank you, Fuzzy. 
And look, it even has your 

1290
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:42,760
signature. 
On it. 

1291
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:47,240
I love that you've been getting 
so much better at your 

1292
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:49,479
signature, Fuzzy. 
Thanks, Clark. 

1293
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:51,319
I've been practicing. 
Yeah, all these. 

1294
01:08:51,319 --> 01:08:53,399
All these weeks you've been 
giving you a sign card 20. 5 

1295
01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:04,359
It's getting really clean 
consistent too Well, thanks for 

1296
01:09:04,359 --> 01:09:05,680
podding with me boys. 
I think that's. 

1297
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:08,760
All about we have to. 
Say yeah, I think we've talked 

1298
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:10,560
enough for one night. 
Yeah, I. 

1299
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:14,040
Was yapping today. 
We be yapping, but if you have 

1300
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:15,720
things that you'd like. 
To yap about in our. 

1301
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:17,840
Patreon section, feel free to 
join us. 

1302
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:21,920
We talk all about Arsenal's, 
Arsenal's own stuff. 

1303
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:25,240
We talk about Crucible stuff. 
We'll see you there. 

1304
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:29,640
And until next time, guys, bye. 
Bye everyone, bye. 

1305
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:53,439
Pitch It to Me podcast is hosted
by Joel. 

1306
01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:56,000
Rosinos Clark Moore and Fuzzy 
Delt. 

1307
01:09:56,480 --> 01:10:00,040
Our executive producer is Talon 
Stradley, our logistics 

1308
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:03,240
coordinator is John Farkas, 
Music is produced by Dylan 

1309
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:07,440
Hulse, logo is designed by Han V
and our sound mixing is done by 

1310
01:10:07,440 --> 01:10:10,040
Christopher Moore. 
Last but not least, thank you 

1311
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:12,800
the listener for taking the time
to listen to our podcast. 

1312
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:15,400
Be sure to give us a follow on 
your favorite social media 

1313
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:28,520
platform at Hit to Meet Podcast.
I'm fuzzy. 

1314
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:34,840
I'm Dirk. 
Read that off with you. 

1315
01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:37,720
Well, Joel has more credit claim
to going second. 

1316
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:40,720
Wow, my name is second in the 
list. 

1317
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:43,720
This is before yours, but you 
took. 

1318
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:46,640
His spy so I just. 
Automatically go left, I get 

1319
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:53,760
pushed back three resources, 
gain 6th life. 

1320
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:56,360
But if you're at deaths door, 
gain 10 life instead. 

1321
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:58,960
Jesus. 
Because that just becomes the 

1322
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:04,400
gym leader super potion, right? 
It's just like, that's so real. 

1323
01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:06,160
I almost killed this fucking dew
dog. 

1324
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:23,360
Dew dog collar is crazy. 
Oh my God. 

1325
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:27,560
But they only use it when 
they're at red.