1
00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,840
Welcome to Pitch It to Me 
podcast, a show about the 

2
00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,880
subjective past, present, and 
potential future of flesh and 

3
00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,560
blood design. 
Remember listeners, this is a 

4
00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:23,800
safe space for whiners and 
doomers alike, but not too safe.

5
00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,840
Today's episode will be about 
when, where, and why we get 

6
00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:29,680
support for heroes in flesh and 
blood. 

7
00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,160
On red pitch, Clark asks The 
Void when he will get support 

8
00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:37,760
for his hero. 
On yellow pitch, Joel will visit

9
00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:42,080
the Ghosts of Expansion slot 
past, and on Blue pitch, Fuzzy 

10
00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:44,360
talks about his greatest fear 
for flesh and blood. 

11
00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:48,160
You can find us across all 
socials such as TikTok and 

12
00:00:48,160 --> 00:01:00,240
Instagram at Pidgetwee Podcast. 
I'm Clark. 

13
00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,440
I'm Joel. 
And I'm fuzzy. 

14
00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:07,880
So we've kind of made it a habit
during spoiler season to take 

15
00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,600
Turn 0 and talk about some of 
the most recent spoilers from 

16
00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,400
the last time we recorded, which
always ends up being just 

17
00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,880
slightly out of date because 
they release something in 

18
00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,920
between when we record and when 
we release the episode and. 

19
00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,840
For constantly in an anxious 
frenzy to get caught up. 

20
00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,040
And thank God because they 
released a card that gave me 

21
00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,440
some feelings and that's Gust 
Wave of the Second Wind. 

22
00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:31,920
I was talking about this card to
my boyfriend John. 

23
00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:33,960
And you know, I love flesh and 
blood. 

24
00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,080
So when I tell him that like 
this card was released and I was

25
00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,280
like really disappointed because
I didn't think this card was 

26
00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,520
like interesting or good, He 
said. 

27
00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,840
I think that's the first time 
I've ever heard you use the word

28
00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,560
disappointed when talking about 
flesh and blood. 

29
00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,720
Wow. 
This is the most negative and 

30
00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:57,080
I'm gonna get in this episode 
that that I took a very low 

31
00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:58,680
point for fuzzies like Hype 
Meter. 

32
00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,760
Yeah, it was a it was a rough 
reveal too. 

33
00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:07,360
The the IT was live streamed so 
you couldn't like cut around it 

34
00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,400
or like drum up excitement. 
They were they were at the 

35
00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,920
calling Manila. 
They call over putting Tam, Mr. 

36
00:02:12,920 --> 00:02:15,520
Ninja himself. 
They sit him down. 

37
00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:16,680
It's like, Are you ready to see 
this card? 

38
00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:18,400
And he's like, I can't wait to 
see this card. 

39
00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,000
I can't wait to see my buddy 
Katsu come back. 

40
00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,040
And then they revealed it and 
all of the energy. 

41
00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,480
He's like, I'm not even going to
play this card. 

42
00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,720
He's like, oh boy, another three
for the binder. 

43
00:02:33,640 --> 00:02:35,360
Yeah, it's just really 
underwhelming. 

44
00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,760
You know, it does exactly what 
Whelming Gust Wave does, except 

45
00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,480
draw you a card, which is the 
best part of Whelming Gust Wave.

46
00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,600
I mean, it's cool that it like 
the zero for four. 

47
00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,960
I don't know, I just think it's 
not very, it's not really 

48
00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,080
objectively better than anything
we're running right now. 

49
00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,680
You know which a lot of 
expansion slot cards feel like 

50
00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,920
they boost our hero somewhat. 
Yeah, and I feel like my man 

51
00:02:54,920 --> 00:02:58,800
Katsu needed the boost. 
Yeah, this does help a little 

52
00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:04,360
bit with more naturally hitting 
the combo more often for bonds, 

53
00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:10,560
but it it definitely seems like 
it's hurting all things 

54
00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,200
considered. 
When did LSS design this car? 

55
00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:17,120
Like this car was probably 
designed and then prepared to be

56
00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:21,840
shipped out in Rosetta like it 
was already at the printers when

57
00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,200
they were like, we're banning 
all yellow and blue bonds. 

58
00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,520
Yeah, I don't really care. 
I think if I had 9 Bonds of 

59
00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:29,880
Ancestry I wouldn't run this 
card, and now that I only have 

60
00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:31,360
three I'm still not running this
card. 

61
00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:32,240
Wow. 
God damn. 

62
00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,840
But I'm holding out hope that 
there's a second Katsu expansion

63
00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,560
slot card that combos off of 
this one, then I will. 

64
00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:49,720
Take everything easy, you get 2.
Like teclovosin got like 4 once 

65
00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,040
and yeah so I should be able to 
get 2. 

66
00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:57,280
No, because those four only 
took, I mean they had like 14 

67
00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,440
expansion slot cards, three of 
which were like the rest of the 

68
00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,680
Evos. 
I wonder what's the bigger cope,

69
00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:09,960
Betsy Log or? 
Fuzzy second katsu spec Fuzzy 

70
00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,240
second katsu spec. 
But I still have a believer. 

71
00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:13,880
Let's just I'm just holding out 
hope. 

72
00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:19,240
The other card that we saw was 
unsheathed, which I feel like 

73
00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:21,800
Joel, you should probably leave 
the discussion on this one. 

74
00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:27,360
Well, I'm usually more negative 
than fuzzy at all points, so I'm

75
00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,680
not going to try and break up 
the monotony here. 

76
00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:35,640
This card's stupid. 
I I only can be played in Kasai 

77
00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,520
and it doesn't move the needle 
that much because it doesn't 

78
00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,160
help with any of your bad 
matchups. 

79
00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:46,120
And it it's it's basically 
another copy of Blade Runner, 

80
00:04:46,280 --> 00:04:49,920
but it's like upfront. 
So you can't really like fake it

81
00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,120
at all. 
So it's just like the worst 

82
00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,880
parts of warrior with 
conditional go again, like yay. 

83
00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,520
Thank you. 
I guess in other news, I want to

84
00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,480
talk a little bit about the 
inspiration of this episode. 

85
00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,240
Recently there were some 
political strife in the pitch to

86
00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,760
Me Discord. 
And by that I mean we had a 

87
00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,760
relatively polite argument 
between a few people about, you 

88
00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,080
know, what kind of support we 
should be getting, how long 

89
00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,040
we're waiting for in in 
reference to other TC DS and 

90
00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,520
stuff like that. 
So we just thought it'd be a fun

91
00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:22,720
episode idea because a lot of 
people responded to it. 

92
00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:28,520
Yeah, there's a lot of 
conversation that has generally 

93
00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,200
been happening about like, 
support and when Heroes should 

94
00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:35,640
get support and like, who's been
waiting forever to get a brand 

95
00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:37,920
new card, right? 
Like these are things I think 

96
00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,960
have popped up enough that like,
we should do a, we should do an 

97
00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,120
episode on it. 
Absolutely. 

98
00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:48,840
I'm excited to get into it too. 
Yeah, so I'm going to steal the 

99
00:05:48,840 --> 00:05:53,400
wheel here and jump right on 
into red pitch, which I have 

100
00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:59,440
titled When Is it My turn? 
Because that's how people sound 

101
00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:03,040
when they talk about they're 
hero getting support. 

102
00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,960
They sound like whiny little 
children who are like, but I 

103
00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,560
haven't gotten a card in two 
years. 

104
00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:14,360
And it's like, all right, but 
like, you're fine, right? 

105
00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:18,320
Like we had a big dinner. 
You can go without a breakfast. 

106
00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:29,320
Sure. 
So when should people be getting

107
00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,320
support for their heroes, right?
I think that's kind of 

108
00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,720
ultimately the big question that
comes up every single time the 

109
00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,680
conversation happens around 
printing support, which is like,

110
00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:43,000
did this hero need it? 
Did this class need it? 

111
00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,240
Who does need it? 
Right? 

112
00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,080
And there's a ton of factors 
that go into that. 

113
00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,800
Way too many for us to get into 
in a single pitch. 

114
00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:56,760
But I do want to note that there
are some auxiliary factors that 

115
00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:59,360
go into the conversation that a 
lot of the times I feel like we 

116
00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:04,600
don't talk enough about, the 
first of which is hero support 

117
00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:11,080
versus class support because 
they are different kind of sorta

118
00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,440
right. 
So I think a great example of 

119
00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:18,640
this discussion is Phi. 
Phi has not received support has

120
00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,240
has not received a card that has
been good in a Phi deck that has

121
00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:27,600
been like made for Phi in an 
exceptionally long time. 

122
00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,200
Like not really since even is 
it? 

123
00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,520
Did he get anything in Dynasty 
or has it just been since 

124
00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,640
Uprising? 
It's just been uprising I think.

125
00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,120
That's kind of wild, because 
that's right, that's pretty 

126
00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,320
close to when I started playing.
Yeah. 

127
00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,800
So almost the entire time I've 
been playing Flesh and blood Phi

128
00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:49,040
decks have been like the same. 
No, they have changed a little 

129
00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:53,320
bit, like when they printed 
Tenacity as a generic right that

130
00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,400
made its way into a lot of Phi 
decks. 

131
00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,840
So I don't want to, you know, 
jump out here and say like, 

132
00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:09,520
actually, if I did get a card 
now he runs two tenacities and 1

133
00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,800
salt the wound and it's like, 
all right, buddy, like plenty, 

134
00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,360
plenty of decks could be running
those cards too, right? 

135
00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,480
That didn't feel like dedicated 
Phi support. 

136
00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,960
But that's another thing, right,
is like you could print a card 

137
00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,320
that supports a hero without it 
being obvious support for that 

138
00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,480
hero. 
I feel like every single time I 

139
00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,120
see a new 2 for six majestic 
disruptive piece, I go fuck, 

140
00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,240
that's another Missouri card. 
Sure right, Because it just goes

141
00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:39,640
so well into her game plan. 
Every single time I see like a 

142
00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:44,080
generic 3 cost blue that blocks 
for three, I'm like, oh, that 

143
00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:48,240
could be a bravo card, right? 
Like there's a lot less of 

144
00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,960
those. 
But The thing is, is that every 

145
00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:56,040
certain heroes sometimes are 
just looking for a very specific

146
00:08:56,040 --> 00:09:00,520
thing for their card to do, and 
so they could end up printing 

147
00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,600
support for a hero without 
meaning to Sure. 

148
00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,560
Sure. 
Or they could print support for 

149
00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:10,320
a hero very very specifically. 
This would be like putting 

150
00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,480
specialization on the card, 
right? 

151
00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,840
It is specifically just for this
one hero. 

152
00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:21,720
Or they could put the class and 
talent at the bottom right. 

153
00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,040
You want a new Prism card? 
Put like Illusionist at the 

154
00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,560
bottom because only Prism is 
going to play that card. 

155
00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:29,640
So it's like you're printing 
direct support for them. 

156
00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:31,840
This is kind of what Phi has 
been missing, right? 

157
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,640
Phi has gotten new Ninja cards. 
There is a Crouching Tiger ninja

158
00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:39,040
list out there. 
And in fact, very interestingly,

159
00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:45,000
I played against a local here, 
Moises, who was running strides 

160
00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,240
of reprisal as a way of making a
tiger for his turn for when he 

161
00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,000
went extra wide. 
And he made sure that the tiger 

162
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:56,360
plus the phoenix flame from Phi 
gave him the two one powered 

163
00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:00,600
things to turn on the Shuko, 
which he put on the tiger so 

164
00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:02,080
that it would hit for an extra 
1. 

165
00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,280
So he could go 8 chain links 
wide and come in with that salt 

166
00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,280
the wound for one extra damage. 
It was an interesting way he he 

167
00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:14,080
applied the concept of what Zen 
is doing with that list in a 

168
00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,680
fight list, and it worked out 
very well. 

169
00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,240
Right, Because Strides of 
Reprisal is no Strides of 

170
00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,880
Reprisal is a Mystic Ninja card.
Yeah, I think he was using 

171
00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,280
Pouncing Pause. 
OK. 

172
00:10:25,560 --> 00:10:31,040
Which is the legs piece from the
round the table. 

173
00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:36,840
Yeah, thank you Joel. 
So again, it's every single time

174
00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,440
a card that says ninja at the 
bottom is printed, he could be 

175
00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,520
using it. 
But like, let's look at this 

176
00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:48,640
gust wave of the Second wind. 
Why is that a Katsu spec, right?

177
00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:50,360
Why? 
Why was that seen as a Katsu 

178
00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,280
card? 
Why do we not see that as a Fi 

179
00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:58,600
card or as a Zen card? 
Why is it a Katsu card 

180
00:10:58,600 --> 00:10:59,800
specifically? 
Which one? 

181
00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,520
The gust wave of the second 
wind, what we talked about in 

182
00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,440
Zero Pitch. 
Well, right now, if we're just 

183
00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,160
looking at play styles, I think 
that's the biggest bias that we 

184
00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,800
have, right? 
Katsu right now is playing 

185
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,120
Surging Strike and Zen is not, 
and Phi is not. 

186
00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:16,960
Now, there's no reason why they 
couldn't, but Katsu seems to be 

187
00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:18,600
really good at playing Surging 
Strike. 

188
00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,760
He has extra reasons to play 
Surging Strike because he has 

189
00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:26,800
two specializations really, just
Lord of Wind and Visit the 

190
00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,200
Floating Dojo that directly 
interact with Surging Strike, so

191
00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,200
a card that combos off of 
Surging Strike feels like it 

192
00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:37,680
belongs to him specifically. 
Exactly, so it's so interesting 

193
00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:43,440
how hero support can be a very 
nebulous concept, whereas class 

194
00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:47,560
support can be very general. 
And I'm sure LSS plenty of times

195
00:11:47,560 --> 00:11:50,480
has printed cards going, hey, 
maybe we'll see like a crouching

196
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,160
Tiger Phi list and like that 
could be really strong, right? 

197
00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:58,040
They even said that when they 
were testing Part the Miss Veil,

198
00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,800
the deck that got to the finals 
of their little in house 

199
00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:06,800
tournament was Phi, presumably 
because Phi got some tools from 

200
00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,280
Part the Miss Veil. 
But that hasn't really 

201
00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,320
translated into other ninja 
lists, right? 

202
00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,400
So. 
So just to clarify what we're 

203
00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,200
talking about here, you're 
comparing the difference between

204
00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,800
when a hero technically gets 
support in the sense that their 

205
00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,960
class has more cards, versus 
when a hero specifically gets 

206
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,000
support, especially in the forms
of like specializations. 

207
00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:35,160
Yes, and I think that it is 
interpreted very differently by 

208
00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:36,840
the community specifically, 
right. 

209
00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:42,400
The so often like they will 
print a new illusionist hero and

210
00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:46,720
that won't influence like prism 
players, right Enigmas general 

211
00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,040
printings and parthem is failed 
did not influence prism lists, 

212
00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,000
not really. 
And so I think you see a lot of 

213
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,040
prism players. 
They would probably say, hey, we

214
00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:58,640
haven't received a card in a 
really long time. 

215
00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:00,000
It's like what do you mean? 
There were all these like 

216
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,720
generic illusionist cards that 
you could be playing, and it's 

217
00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:04,720
like, yeah, but we're not going 
to. 

218
00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,160
We want prism cards. 
What am I going to do with 

219
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,920
spectral manifestations like? 
Exactly, even though that 

220
00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:15,280
actually seems like it might be 
weirdly good if they no because 

221
00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,800
they can't give a go again. 
Yeah, what are the counters 

222
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,360
going to do? 
Like you can't attack with it. 

223
00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:22,840
Maybe if you did an oralist, 
maybe. 

224
00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:27,040
Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe this 
also makes me think of or acne 

225
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,640
versus Azuri. 
I remember when Already Dead was

226
00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:34,040
printed, which is a card that 
objectively makes Arachne decks 

227
00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,440
better. 
After all, they can like run 

228
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,640
another Poppy popper a little 
bit more easily. 

229
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,400
Like in their engine they have 
another contract card that they 

230
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,160
get to play around with that 
banishes something new. 

231
00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,160
It's at a new break point and it
could fit very well with their 

232
00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,040
daggers. 
Like, there's a lot of cool 

233
00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,320
things that this card does that 
are acne players haven't 

234
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,720
necessarily had direct access to
before. 

235
00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,720
I remember a lot of local or 
acne players saying that they're

236
00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,880
kind of bummed about this card 
because Arzuri could use it 

237
00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,960
better, therefore it wasn't 
really AN OR acne. 

238
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:06,160
Card right? 
So like. 

239
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,680
That case is a little bit 
special because I think Arachne 

240
00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:13,720
especially feels a little bit 
like they're under the shadow of

241
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,080
a Zuri, so they wanted something
to get out from that shadow 

242
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,240
specifically. 
But depending on what you're 

243
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,640
looking for for the hero like, 
that might be something you 

244
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:23,720
like, or you might be 
disappointed about it, even if 

245
00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:25,960
it makes the hero like 
objectively better. 

246
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,240
Yeah. 
And this conversation leads very

247
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,400
naturally into my next point, 
which is the difference between 

248
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,840
single card support versus 
booster support, right? 

249
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,440
So now I want to go to what Joel
was talking about with the 

250
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,320
politics that was happening in 
the Discord. 

251
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:50,280
So in the Discord we have our 
producer Talon, who you guys 

252
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:56,560
know is the big Riptide guy. 
And he was saying, man, I think 

253
00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:01,720
that the next set after Rosetta 
really is like is assuredly 

254
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,360
going to have Ranger in it. 
And all three of us, I think, or

255
00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,800
at least me and Joel definitely 
were like what are you smoking? 

256
00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,080
Thank you. 
Like Ranger has been doing 

257
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:15,280
really well at the top of the 
meta, but also they've been 

258
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,600
getting consistent support 
throughout the year, right? 

259
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:23,040
They've had an expansion slot 
card every single set since they

260
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:24,920
introduced it. 
So they've had one in bright 

261
00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,200
lights, one in heavy hitters, 
one in part the miss Vale and 

262
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,200
one in Rosetta. 
They've and they got the Azalea 

263
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,600
Armory deck, which gave them 
like a brand new suite of 

264
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,920
equipment and a brand new 
majestic to play around. 

265
00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:43,200
They've received plenty of 
support, but they haven't gotten

266
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:47,360
any new Commons and in fact 
Ranger is the class that has 

267
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,120
gone the longest right now 
without receiving a booster 

268
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,720
product considering Rosetta 
coming out. 

269
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:56,520
Really. 
Yes, that's interesting. 

270
00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:02,640
Yes, they are sitting at around 
650 days of waiting since 

271
00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:06,800
outsiders came out. 
They have received no Commons or

272
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,120
rares in that time. 
And Wizard would be the next 

273
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,560
runner up if not for the fact 
that they're getting support now

274
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:13,760
with Rosetta. 
Yes. 

275
00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,360
So you dropped a stat and it 
might be distracting me a little

276
00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:18,120
bit. 
It's a very interesting stat. 

277
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,200
It is a very interesting 
statistic. 

278
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:26,480
So talent very much had a point 
in that it it has been a while 

279
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,240
since they got a booster 
product, since they were able to

280
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,040
like, draft a Ranger, since they
got like new arrows and new 

281
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,120
pumps, which are interesting and
maybe want them to, like, 

282
00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,240
dramatically change their lists.
It's been a while since they've 

283
00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,440
gotten a new hero. 
But at the exact same time, it's

284
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:49,160
like, yeah, but you're fine. 
You have been getting support in

285
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:53,720
these single card ways. 
What do you guys think about the

286
00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,000
difference between these two 
sorts of printings and the 

287
00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:03,880
benefits of both of them? 
What I think like first and 

288
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,040
foremost, the booster support is
obviously the most impactful 

289
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,119
because the crux of the argument
that I was having against 

290
00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,839
talent, and I want to reference 
this by saying we like talent. 

291
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:16,960
We're not like besmirching his 
name by talking about this. 

292
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,040
I'm just like kind of painting 
the picture a little bit. 

293
00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,000
I mean, we are friends who show 
our love through polite 

294
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,760
argumentation. 
There's a reason he's our 

295
00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,040
executive producer. 
Yeah, true. 

296
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,000
And he also loves to argue, so 
you should feel free to. 

297
00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:35,280
Whatever Talon does love a good 
argument. 

298
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,360
But I think still, booster 
support is the strongest. 

299
00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:43,000
That's why I like supplemental 
sets so much, because it allows 

300
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,560
you to get those Commons and 
rares that are so crucial to 

301
00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:51,360
like heroes in their carpools. 
And that's why I think like if 

302
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:54,320
you have a really good booster 
support, you don't need one for 

303
00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:56,880
a while because you can just 
live off the single cards of 

304
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,120
support. 
So what you're saying is like 

305
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,000
booster support is the 
foundation for a class's 

306
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,920
identity, and single cards like 
expansion slot cards can bolster

307
00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,520
that identity or tweak it, but 
you need that booster support to

308
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,120
lay that foundation. 
And sometimes the foundation can

309
00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:15,880
be so good that it lasts a 
really long time. 

310
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,360
Is that what you're saying? 
Yeah, exactly. 

311
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,440
Well, I love that point and I 
think I agree with it 100%. 

312
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:28,000
I also want to ask you guys how 
well have these expansion slot 

313
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,520
cards done at helping classes 
feel like they've gotten 

314
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,640
support? 
That is a very wide question. 

315
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,040
It is, but I guess the point I'm
trying to make here is like 

316
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:44,480
ultimately, why does LSS print 
cards for a hero or for a class 

317
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:46,640
even? 
Like when they are looking at 

318
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,760
their 234 year plan and they're 
setting out which sets do they 

319
00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,840
want to see certain heroes in at
certain times or certain classes

320
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,960
in at certain times? 
Why do you think they make those

321
00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,800
decisions? 
I mean, like obviously one of 

322
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,720
them is going to be because we 
have a design we like. 

323
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,120
Sure, sure, sure. 
Like they're excited to print 

324
00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:08,400
something just because it's a 
cool hero or concept. 

325
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,640
Yeah. 
And probably also semi obviously

326
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,240
to to make money, yeah. 
To make money. 

327
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:16,680
Which is why we see an 
illusionist every six months. 

328
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,040
Except we don't. 
Actually. 

329
00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:24,480
So how well do these expansion 
slot cards do at helping classes

330
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,040
and heroes feel maybe held over,
right? 

331
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:33,720
Like like I feel like every 
single time a class gets 

332
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,560
support, the timer resets, 
right? 

333
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,240
Like the egg timer goes off and 
and everyone's all excited and 

334
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,760
happy and then they crank it 
back up and then it just starts 

335
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:50,240
ticking and ticking and ticking 
and eventually players get upset

336
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,800
enough that it goes off again 
and they start demanding cards. 

337
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:56,360
I feel like it's a little bit 
more flexible than that because 

338
00:19:56,360 --> 00:19:59,800
like Oh my class got one 
expansion slot card, the timer 

339
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,040
gets like reduced that's. 
Kind of what I mean, right, how,

340
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,040
how good have these expansion 
slot cards? 

341
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:10,720
So for my 3rd and final point, I
want to touch on that thing I 

342
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,720
brought up at the very 
beginning, which was how long 

343
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,720
should you wait? 
Because I feel like every single

344
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:21,680
time that new cards are printed,
there's like an egg timer and, 

345
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:27,080
and the players go and they 
crank it up and they crank it up

346
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:29,960
and then it just starts ticking 
and ticking. 

347
00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:32,360
And the lower it gets, the 
closer it starts getting to 0. 

348
00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:34,840
They're like, oh, wow, hey LSS, 
this egg timer is about to go 

349
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,680
off and it's like, oh, they're 
releasing the next set. 

350
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,600
Are we? 
We're getting close to 0. 

351
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,880
Is it going to be our turn? 
It's not. 

352
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,800
They turn it down a little bit 
more, they push it closer to 0, 

353
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,440
they start and they start 
complaining more and more and 

354
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:51,960
more when the egg timer goes 
off. 

355
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:55,200
I feel like that's a failure for
LSS and LSS doesn't want that to

356
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,760
happen, right? 
I think they choose to print 

357
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:02,000
classes at a regular rate 
because they need to keep people

358
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,640
playing their game. 
So they need to print keep 

359
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,640
printing new cards for players. 
You know, I'm going to be, I'm 

360
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,040
going to give you a slight 
counter argument, not because I 

361
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:15,120
disagree with your point, but 
because I do think that when 

362
00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:17,600
your class is printed a lot, 
there's less hype for it. 

363
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,680
And one thing this game does 
really well is every time they 

364
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,880
do something, it's really 
fucking hype because there's so 

365
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:25,680
many different things they can 
do. 

366
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,200
Like they're printing a wizard 
rune blade set and like we 

367
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,720
haven't seen wizard or rune 
blade in a while or Earth or 

368
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,200
lightning. 
And so it's really hype because 

369
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,960
those things feel a little bit 
overdue. 

370
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,520
They're able to ride that hype 
wave because every time they 

371
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,480
print something, it ends up 
being a little bit overdue. 

372
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,000
There's like this little sweep 
spot, right, where like the 

373
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,680
community starts demanding it 
right around the time that LSS 

374
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,520
has planned to deliver it. 
Yeah. 

375
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:52,240
And that's where they want it to
be. 

376
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:58,960
But I think the egg timer can 
certainly end up going off 

377
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,160
essentially with LSS not having 
anything planned for them. 

378
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,440
I think, for example, this is 
happening with, like Phi players

379
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:09,160
bringing up the earlier point of
how Phi has gone forever without

380
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:13,520
having a new card. 
So I want to ask how long do you

381
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,320
guys think this egg timer is and
how long do you think it should 

382
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:22,720
be? 
That's a good question. 

383
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,960
Like I feel like. 
Should you expect to get cards 

384
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:27,800
for your class every single 
year? 

385
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,320
No, there's too many classes for
that. 

386
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,520
I feel like a year and a half to
two years probably what it 

387
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,920
should be at a. 
Year would be pretty good. 

388
00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:42,720
And does an expansion slot card 
fulfill? 

389
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:48,600
That definitely not OK. 
So the single card is not 

390
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,960
enough. 
It would like help you extend, 

391
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:52,040
right? 
Yeah. 

392
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,520
Like if I haven't gotten 
anything and it's been a year, 

393
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,600
that's like, OK. 
But if I've gotten like a card 

394
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,600
in like 3 different expansion 
slots then I can wait like 2 

395
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,360
years, maybe even a little bit 
longer if I'm waiting for a full

396
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:07,280
expansion booster set. 
It's weird because sometimes a 

397
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:12,240
hero can get an X pack slot and 
it sucks and it feels as or as 

398
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,080
bad as Phi not getting a 
singular car that says Draconic 

399
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,960
Ninja for like 2-3 years or 
whatever. 

400
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,000
They feel the same, almost 
worse. 

401
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,800
Yeah, almost worse. 
But it's, like, hard to quantify

402
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:26,960
that, like, the difference 
between those two feelings 

403
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,480
because on one hand you have the
attention you've been begging 

404
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,840
for and it failed. 
And then the other is like, you 

405
00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:37,880
don't have any attention at all.
And there's seemingly nothing 

406
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:42,160
going on to quench your thirst 
on that one. 

407
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,120
Yeah. 
The strength of the cards 

408
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,800
certainly do matter. 
So now that we've talked about 

409
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,000
the single cards, what about 
like the supplemental sets? 

410
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:55,840
Like, was Dynasty enough for 
like mechanologists to feel like

411
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,480
they got new cards for room 
blades to feel like they got new

412
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,440
cards? 
I hate this question. 

413
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,560
I know because you're trying to 
make me put like yes or no 

414
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,680
answers like something concrete 
when this is like a really 

415
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,560
subjective and personal 
question. 

416
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,000
I don't want to answer for the 
behalf of anyone else, but I 

417
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,920
feel like you're asking me to. 
Well, see, that's the thing. 

418
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,600
It's because I think this is 
such a compelling question 

419
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,720
specifically because everyone 
sets it differently. 

420
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:31,200
But there is clearly a community
sentiment and LSS has to tap 

421
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,400
into that sentiment. 
That's true and like. 

422
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,400
Even though I don't want to 
answer for everyone, LSS has to.

423
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:37,480
In a way. 
Exactly. 

424
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,200
And so I like putting myself in 
the shoes of a designer at LSS. 

425
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,880
And like Joel, what do you 
think? 

426
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,320
Are are supplemental sets enough
to to be considered like new 

427
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,160
support? 
Can that reset the timer for the

428
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,840
one to two years? 
I think so, if it's done the 

429
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,000
right way. 
See, I don't think it can 

430
00:24:55,640 --> 00:25:00,280
completely fulfill the one to 
two years idea, but I think it 

431
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,800
does buy you a much larger 
amount of time than the single 

432
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,000
cards. 
I think the single cards can buy

433
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,720
you like maybe a set worth of 
difference. 

434
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,080
I think a supplemental set can 
can do a lot more. 

435
00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:17,240
Ultimately, I think like a brand
new hero in a class in a 

436
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:21,920
draftable set is like the ideal 
support for a class because it 

437
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:23,760
gives you a whole new suite of 
Commons. 

438
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,960
You never know if one or more of
those Commons are going to work 

439
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:31,800
their way into another hero, and
it can revitalize the class. 

440
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,080
So if you're playing, let's say,
Warrior, right, Kasai was 

441
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,800
actually able to get living 
Legend points in the meta where 

442
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,480
she was released. 
So even though even though 

443
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:47,680
Bolton and Dory didn't exactly 
get a ton of cards from that 

444
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,320
set, that like really did a lot 
for them, right? 

445
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,200
Like I how many heavy hitter 
cards were really run in like 

446
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,080
the hatchet Dory lists? 
Oh, a lot. 

447
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:00,640
Really. 
Yeah. 

448
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,040
Like taking on the chin blade. 
Fucking what is it called? 

449
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:08,200
Flurry. 
Yeah, surely there's more. 

450
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:09,400
Sure. 
I just can't remember them. 

451
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,880
Yeah, the, the, the equipment, 
but yeah, yeah, yeah. 

452
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,560
That's, that's sort of like, I 
think a good hallmark. 

453
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,200
But because I also gave like 
Warrior players the chance to 

454
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,960
go, that's the meta hero because
they just printed it, It 

455
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,280
refreshed the meta, it gave 
Warriors a new place in the meta

456
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,040
and it let them focus on that. 
And I think all of that is 

457
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,600
that's like peak support for a 
class. 100%. 

458
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,440
Not necessarily peak support for
a hero, but it's certainly peak 

459
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:40,440
support for a class And that's 
it. 

460
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,040
That's all I have for you guys 
in this pitch because like Fuzzy

461
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:45,760
was saying, there is no right 
answer. 

462
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:51,320
I'm not going to end it with 
like a hard 421 days. 

463
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,200
Like there's no there's no 
specificness to it, but I think 

464
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,600
being able to say single class 
cards are good, they can help 

465
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,120
provide I think better hero 
support than general class 

466
00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:07,320
support, and they can help delay
how long it takes to get a 

467
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,360
printing for their new hero out.
But ultimately I think you need 

468
00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:15,160
supplemental sets and draftable 
sets to really help players and 

469
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,960
the player base feel like they 
are getting the cards that they 

470
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,440
are deserved. 
Agreed. 

471
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,640
Cool, is it time for yellow 
pitch? 

472
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:27,520
I think it's time for yellow 
pitch. 

473
00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:31,680
So for yellow pitch. 
Today I wanted to talk about the

474
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,880
I have my notes intersection 
between performance and support.

475
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:37,880
Wow, fucking nerd. 
Sounds like you're about to 

476
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,600
like, break open a PowerPoint. 
Talk about synergy. 

477
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,480
I know. 
Well, I'm sorry I couldn't make 

478
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:50,120
it clever enough for you, Joel. 
Please don't tell me about the 

479
00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:52,520
intersection between performance
and support. 

480
00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:59,400
I don't sound like that so. 
I wanted to talk about the 

481
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:05,120
reasons why LSS might choose to 
dish out some support or hold 

482
00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:08,080
back on it, or just talk about 
some examples of where they did 

483
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,320
put out some support for heroes.
And 1st, I will just start off 

484
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:18,280
by saying it doesn't seem like. 
And 1st, I'll talk about ways 

485
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:23,120
that LSS doesn't seem like it's 
using the LL leader board as the

486
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:27,400
framework for printing support. 
So first we'll talk about Dromi.

487
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,280
She was doing really well. 
By the time she got Tom of 

488
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:37,320
Imperial Flame, I believe she 
was playing in a Meadow with 

489
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,600
Lexi being at the top, Guardians
being at the top, and basically 

490
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,320
every mirror or guardian match 
of going to time because it was 

491
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,680
just so slow. 
And it was a lot of like macros 

492
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,600
and pitch stacking and stuff 
like that. 

493
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,400
And then even though she was 
getting living legend points, 

494
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,280
they decided to give her tum of 
Imperial Flame, which what I 

495
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:01,280
have heard from Dromy players, 
basically flattened the skill 

496
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,080
cap needed for this hero. 
You didn't need to really pitch 

497
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,800
sack anymore. 
You didn't you didn't need to 

498
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,960
manage your ash as well and it 
added no blocks. 

499
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,960
So there's a little bit more 
consistency there, and it added 

500
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:17,640
a really, really toxic mirror 
match scenario as well. 

501
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:23,720
And it begs the question, why 
did LSS think Dromi needed this 

502
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,640
if she was already performing 
well? 

503
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:30,040
Like, was this maybe printed 
before Dromi was doing well? 

504
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,040
Was it supposed to be for all 
Draconic heroes but only she 

505
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:34,800
could use it with her current 
kit? 

506
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:36,920
Like it? 
It's something that propuxes me 

507
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:41,600
as much as it did Dromi players.
Yeah, it was odd because Dromi 

508
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,400
was doing fine in the meta and 
then here was a card that very 

509
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,360
clearly increased her power, 
right? 

510
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:55,080
So it was like, why did she get 
support when she was strong? 

511
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,560
But like we've said with Phi, it
had been a long time since 

512
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,080
they've actually printed cards 
with Draconic on them, so they 

513
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,760
were kind of due for a new card 
and it was very neat. 

514
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,080
A Tome Imperial Flame is like 
essentially a requirement now in

515
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:15,760
the Emperor, so it's not like 
there weren't clear use cases 

516
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,920
for the tome. 
But very obviously I don't think

517
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,120
they looked at the Living Legend
leaderboard, saw Dromi at the 

518
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:26,720
top, and then went, well now we 
can't print anything that Dromi 

519
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,800
could use, right? 
They were fine printing cards 

520
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,000
that Dromi could use and could 
use well even though she was 

521
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,200
strong. 
Yeah, to kind of build on to 

522
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,880
that point, they kept printing 
specifically Dromi support even 

523
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:45,440
after Dromi Living Legend, those
specific Dragon specific Ash 

524
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,520
cards, right? 
Yeah, the Dust from series. 

525
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,200
I think it's more likely that 
we've touched on this a little 

526
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,840
bit briefly in Red Pitch, but 
LSS might just like designing 

527
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:58,040
cards and Tome of Imperial Flame
was a fun card to design and 

528
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,200
they felt like it had a really 
cool spot in the game. 

529
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,960
Maybe they couldn't predict like
exactly how it would play up 

530
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,040
match up wise or what it would 
do to the hero. 

531
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:09,480
But I think it is a cool unique 
card and it's an interesting 

532
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,080
design and maybe that's why LSS 
wanted to print it, you know, 

533
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,200
And I'm sure they thought about 
balance, you know, but seeing 

534
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,920
how it like can help the Emperor
and Dromi is a cool intersection

535
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,440
in design. 
Maybe they didn't think it could

536
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,920
help Dromi. 
Yeah, maybe they never saw Dromi

537
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,240
sacrificing their head. 
Slot that. 

538
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:33,960
Oh that is true, although I 
think when they saw like how 

539
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,680
much Dromi players were 
struggling in the early game to 

540
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:41,760
build gold or to build ash to 
build ash, they would be 

541
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,680
equipping Crown of Dominion 
anyways to crack that gold for 

542
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,000
an extra ash. 
Or they, you know, have like 

543
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,240
seekers myths or I can't 
remember the leg piece. 

544
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,640
I think it's a time skippers. 
Sometimes they do that just to 

545
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,160
get ash on turn. 
Time skippers is wild. 

546
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:01,400
Oh yeah, they were they were 
cooking. 

547
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,920
So it it was like actually 
decent support for drone. 

548
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:06,760
Why? 
Because there were turns where, 

549
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,200
OK, I can just play this card, I
can filter my hand a little bit 

550
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:14,120
and still pitch stack and get 
some more ash generation going 

551
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,440
and it basically turns your Reds
into Blues, which is something 

552
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,480
that she also struggled with. 
She couldn't really pay for 

553
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,760
multiple cards per turn. 
But in a similar way, they don't

554
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,520
all also always look at the 
bottom of the leaderboard and 

555
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,280
then go we have to print support
for those heroes. 

556
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,680
Notably looking at the part the 
Miss Veil expansion slot card 

557
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:38,000
where Betsy and Olympia were 
struggling as these like 

558
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:43,680
secondary unfinished heroes from
the heavy hitters meta, but they

559
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:49,360
gave support to Victor instead 
of Betsy in the expansion slot. 

560
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,280
Yeah, that was strange. 
Our Golden Boy. 

561
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,680
Yeah, it's a it's white 
privilege. 

562
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,000
Because he was already pretty 
good. 

563
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,360
But yeah, they, I mean, that was
very odd, right? 

564
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,360
You don't look at how Betsy is 
clearly struggling in the meta 

565
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:09,000
and like give her a card. 
And, and we've had some colorful

566
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:13,000
discussion about the unfinished 
heroes in the the hero poll 

567
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:14,800
right now. 
Yeah. 

568
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:19,360
So I those are some pretty 
blatant examples about how 

569
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,360
heroes that were already good 
getting even better. 

570
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,760
And it's a little frustrating, 
but sometimes like, it's not for

571
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,360
us to know and it's for us to 
like kind of adapt as players. 

572
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,640
I, for one, personally find the 
draw My Ashes to be strange. 

573
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:39,520
But when I learned that they 
were basically just giving ash 

574
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,240
based on the like area that the 
set is in, like Arya's probably 

575
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,280
going to get, I think it's Uvia 
or whoever's entails, like each 

576
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,240
of the Dragons hail from a 
certain land anyways. 

577
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,800
I think it's time to move on to 
support that really adds a, 

578
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,640
like, a genuine big boost. 
And it's going to heroes that 

579
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:00,760
like, really need it. 
And I think the most recent 

580
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,520
examples would be the Riptide 
and the Bolton Armory deck. 

581
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,720
Yeah. 
So this is when they look at 

582
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,840
those struggling heroes and they
are like you get support and 

583
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:14,000
then they give them cards like a
like some weird fucked up Santa 

584
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,560
Claus. 
Now, when you look at the, the 

585
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,520
Armory decks, you look at the 
Azalea card list and you know, a

586
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,520
lot of it's going to be useful 
for Azalea. 

587
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,719
But I think that most people 
that were excited or, and I, but

588
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,840
I think the people that were 
most excited about this upcoming

589
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,719
set of support were the Riptide 
players, cuz all of it's the aim

590
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,600
counter stuff that we've been 
missing from basically. 

591
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,679
I think it was a dynasty that 
the encounter stuff started 

592
00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:45,600
popping up. 
Or maybe yeah. 

593
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:51,159
It was Dynasty was when we first
saw aim counters with sand 

594
00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:55,560
scour, great bow, immobilizing 
shot and barbed castaway or no, 

595
00:34:55,560 --> 00:35:00,640
No, sorry, no barbed undertow, 
the one for five that with the 

596
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,560
counter on hit, stop them from 
pitching a colour. 

597
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:08,040
I think that's outsiders. 
Immobilizing shot was definitely

598
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:10,480
dynasty though. 
Yeah, you got that one. 

599
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,400
Barbed Undertow was 100% 
outsiders, but that's OK. 

600
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,400
And on the other hand I think 
Bolton has really been 

601
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,400
struggling with the amount of 
like he's probably the hero with

602
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,040
the most amount of support and 
still has yet to move the needle

603
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:30,360
in any shape or form. 
Like Dynasty I think was or 

604
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:35,520
excuse me, Dusseldon I think was
probably the largest amount of 

605
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,480
support since Monarch and 
basically none of it helped him.

606
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,360
But with his Armory deck, he 
gets some new equipment that 

607
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,720
helps him charge and eases him 
into this like mid range 

608
00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:50,720
gameplay as well as a really 
amazing new defense reaction 

609
00:35:50,720 --> 00:35:52,320
that can help with all of his 
matchups. 

610
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,400
So there's definitely some 
really good examples of when LSS

611
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,520
has delivered on their promises 
of making heroes better. 

612
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,440
I think Riptide has been at the 
center of our discussion about 

613
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,200
releasing unfinished heroes with
unfinished archetypes, and 

614
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,560
they're. 
Like really buffing him to a 

615
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,080
level where he's actually a 
contender in the meta. 

616
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,360
Yeah, what I was saying in my 
red pitch of how Riptide has 

617
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:19,760
gotten a brand new card 
seemingly every single expansion

618
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,160
slot that's it's been available.
That's all been Riptide cards. 

619
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,560
Like none of those cards have 
really said Azalea to people. 

620
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,000
They've all been oriented around
traps and the trap gameplay 

621
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,320
which is very much Riptides play
style. 

622
00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:35,720
Yeah, you're right, Joel. 
It's cool when they're able to 

623
00:36:35,720 --> 00:36:39,000
use like Armory decks in order 
to focus on heroes that can use 

624
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,720
a little bit of help. 
But even then, even then, we've 

625
00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:44,400
seen that they'll also do the 
opposite. 

626
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,640
Like in the case of the KO deck,
KO ended up being really strong,

627
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,200
so they're also willing to print
support to heroes that are near 

628
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,200
the top. 
Yeah. 

629
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,800
And I think that was a really 
good move on their part, 

630
00:36:55,800 --> 00:37:00,400
specifically for sellability. 
And I also like the innovate, 

631
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,200
like how LSS is always 
innovating their strategy 

632
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,600
seemingly every year. 
This is just a really good blend

633
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:12,680
of the expansion slot cards and 
the supplemental set, and it's 

634
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,000
really accessible to new 
players. 

635
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,960
So I think it's like a very good
multi faceted product. 

636
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,120
And I'm hoping that they use 
this as like one of the levers 

637
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,480
they pull on, you know, 
different heroes, because 

638
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,600
there's still a lot of heroes in
the Living Legend leaderboard, 

639
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:29,560
and I need some help. 
Yeah. 

640
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,560
But ultimately, both of these 
methods of support that we've 

641
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,160
talked about, they're like the 
single card sorts of support, 

642
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,200
right? 
Whereas I think when we've 

643
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,600
talked about like Betsy, for 
example, we've been saying that 

644
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,520
like the wager cards just need 
to be better. 

645
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:50,040
Like all the wage cards being 
two blocks are really hampering 

646
00:37:50,240 --> 00:37:55,600
the ability for I think. 
Did that come up over audio? 

647
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:07,000
OK, the wager cards just need to
like be reprinted, but with like

648
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:08,800
three blocks at the bottom of 
them, right? 

649
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,280
We've been saying like how they 
have these near these heroes 

650
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,640
need more than just like 1 
Majestic to suddenly get good. 

651
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,040
Like that's not going to move 
the needle on these heroes. 

652
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:21,320
They need a full set. 
They need a lot more something 

653
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:25,800
like a supplemental set oriented
around the wager strategy to 

654
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:31,520
really see them step up and 
become stronger heroes that can 

655
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,400
actually start competing at 
tournaments. 

656
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,640
Or this new mastery pack that 
they're advertising where it's 

657
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,280
all Guardian 100% baby. 
Yeah. 

658
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,960
And like one of those archetypes
might be like a Betsy Wager 

659
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:49,320
archetype, but I would also just
as likely see a return to crush 

660
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:53,040
in there, right? 
Yeah, yeah, I'm really excited 

661
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,480
about the Mastery pack as well. 
It's going to be a really good 

662
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:02,360
litmus tests for this product 
for LSS in general and what we 

663
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,560
can expect to see. 
Because I think they spoiled 

664
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,880
another one in announcing the 
Guardian Mastery pack, right? 

665
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,120
Or am I misremembering? 
No, we only know about the 

666
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:16,520
Guardian one and for the whole 
year they dedicated like a row 

667
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,680
of their releases to the mastery
pack, but only the guardian one 

668
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:25,440
showed up on that timeline. 
Gotcha, well we'll see in time 

669
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,920
if it actually helps Guardian 
and if they decided to do more 

670
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,960
of it. 
But now I want to talk about the

671
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:36,320
times where support has just 
missed the mark, where it's just

672
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:40,280
like either it's an unfinished 
idea or just a poorly executed 

673
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,760
1. 
Fuzzy, you already talked about 

674
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,200
it a little bit, but this is 
your window to talk about it a 

675
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,520
bit more if you want. 
Gust wave of the second wind. 

676
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,040
Yeah, screw this card. 
Maybe if I'm talking about it 

677
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:53,840
here, we can actually cut it 
from turn zero. 

678
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,240
Maybe because turn zero I think 
went a little bit long. 

679
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,440
Yeah, yeah, this gust wave of 
the second wind. 

680
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:05,720
I'm disappointed this card. 
Ceiling is very low, but its 

681
00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:08,760
floor is also pretty high and 
it's just not something we kind 

682
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,840
of need for ninja right now. 
I think like it's very close to 

683
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,200
fluster fist, but it's actually 
like a little bit more niche 

684
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,760
than fluster fist because right 
now like a 0 for four block 3 is

685
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,440
very playable in Katsu, 
especially with a combo keyword.

686
00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:23,240
But fluster fist can be played 
in blue. 

687
00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:25,680
So it like works a little bit 
nicely with bons of ancestry. 

688
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,440
This card also kind of works 
really well with bons of 

689
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,160
ancestry, but it can't be 
grabbed with mask of the 

690
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,040
pouncing links. 
So like I can see where like 

691
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,520
this card can help and by 
printing more cards, it might 

692
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,120
make it easier for newer players
to get engaged with the game. 

693
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,840
Like maybe like someone gets 
really excited because they 

694
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,720
pulled this in their pre release
and they're like, I think I 

695
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,440
should play Katsu because this 
idea is really intriguing and 

696
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,520
you're like go for it kid. 
Eventually you'll probably cut 

697
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:55,680
that card, but it's OK if it 
gets you excited about the hero.

698
00:40:56,240 --> 00:40:58,160
I just don't think I'll be 
playing it and I was like a 

699
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,520
fervent Katsu mane for a while. 
Yeah. 

700
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,560
And how does that, how did that 
make you feel? 

701
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,880
Because I think Katsu as a Katsu
player, Katsu has been in a 

702
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:14,000
really interesting spot recently
because Katsu got a bunch of new

703
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:19,400
ninja cards, in part the Miss 
Veil, and then now Katsu is also

704
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,320
getting this card. 
So you could argue that Katsu 

705
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,160
has been getting a lot of 
support, but have you felt that 

706
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,480
as a player? 
Not exactly. 

707
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:29,960
It happens to be that I 
definitely personally switched 

708
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,600
to Zen like pretty soon after 
the set was released. 

709
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,800
So I've just been exploring Zen 
and I think it's much more fun 

710
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,040
to play Crouching Tiger stuff in
Zen, which is what all the part 

711
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,320
of the missile stuff is. 
I don't think that this card 

712
00:41:41,720 --> 00:41:44,840
gives me a lot of inspiration to
go back to Katsu necessarily. 

713
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,680
So I don't feel like this is 
very inspiring as a Katsu 

714
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,400
player, which is why I would 
look for an expansion slot card.

715
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,480
It's been a while since we've 
had cards that like really 

716
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:58,640
refreshed Katsu. 
You could say that one generic 

717
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,200
Majestic from Partha Mistfield 
did that better than this card 

718
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:07,120
does, the prismatic Ley line. 
But it definitely feels like 

719
00:42:07,720 --> 00:42:09,880
Katsu's at a little bit worse 
place in the meta. 

720
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:11,720
He was never really at the top 
of the meta. 

721
00:42:11,720 --> 00:42:14,800
He was just like a really nice 
like B tier for a while. 

722
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,480
So it feels like Katsu could 
really use a refresh. 

723
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,800
But I also know I'm not one of 
the only heroes that needs it 

724
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:26,120
so. 
But like, are you as a as 

725
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:30,160
someone who like has at least 
identified as a katsu player 

726
00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:34,440
saying you want more cards for 
Katsu? 

727
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,360
A little bit, especially when 
they banned like some of my 

728
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,200
power cards like the Bonds of 
Ancestry ban. 

729
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,360
It kind of like, well, we 
weren't. 

730
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:44,920
It was like the bullseye bracers
thing with Lexi, right? 

731
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,120
Like the top of the meta just 
lost a piece. 

732
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,360
It's hurting the other members 
of that class. 

733
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,960
It feels like we need something 
to come back, you know? 

734
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,960
Yeah, and you know, Joel, if you
don't mind, I kind of want to 

735
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:01,120
jump in here and say how I felt 
on Dynasty getting support as a 

736
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,160
Runeblade player, cuz back then 
I was kind of only a Runeblade 

737
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:08,240
player, yeah. 
I love to hear you take on this.

738
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:13,520
Yeah, so when we got the new 
cards, then one, they had 

739
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,800
actually been a hot minute since
they had printed Room Blade 

740
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,040
cards. 
We just had Everfest not too 

741
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:24,120
long ago, where Everfest gave us
a lot of very strong Majestic. 

742
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:28,480
So like, but I had come in after
that and I've been playing for a

743
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,560
while and I was excited to see 
the new Room Blade cards. 

744
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:36,280
And then I saw this new strategy
around like pitching non attack 

745
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,720
and attack action cards. 
And all of the cards that I saw 

746
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:46,160
just looked so bad and counter 
to what Visserie and Briar were 

747
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:50,240
actually trying to do, which was
this aggro rush down style. 

748
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,560
I'm not looking to pitch 2 cards
on my turn. 

749
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:57,640
I'm looking to pitch one card on
my turn and play three to four 

750
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,440
cards on my turn. 
Especially pitching 2 for the 

751
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:02,360
same card. 
Exactly. 

752
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,360
Pitching 2 for the same card 
actually makes it so much harder

753
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,880
because it's not like you can 
pitch 2 Blues and then increase 

754
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,360
the the resource curve of your 
deck. 

755
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,440
You so you're like having to 
pitch away the red card that you

756
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:18,160
want to play to keep tempo. 
And ultimately the effects that 

757
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,120
we were getting wasn't actually 
all that strong. 

758
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:25,080
We were, we were pitching an 
extra card, typically leaving us

759
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:30,120
with extra resources to get 
maybe two extra value. 

760
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,720
And the big majestic centerpiece
of this was Cryptic Crossing, 

761
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:39,880
which cost 3, which was awkward 
to pitch 2 cards for, right? 

762
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,320
If it cost 4, it would have been
very clean. 

763
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,440
We would have been like, oh I 
have to pitch 2 cards into this.

764
00:44:45,720 --> 00:44:48,480
Wait right this be really good 
now because you can play like 

765
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:52,080
red line Viscerae because back 
then it was like ice was in the 

766
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,000
meta. 
So if you pitched like if you 

767
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,080
built your. 
That was the whole reason why 

768
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,440
people ran these cards was 
because frostbite would increase

769
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:04,280
the cost of them to actually 
make them more viable to play. 

770
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:05,480
That's. 
Really interesting. 

771
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:10,240
But at the exact same time, I 
hated it into every other 

772
00:45:10,240 --> 00:45:12,920
matchup. 
And so I ended up never really 

773
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:18,120
running the card, any of them. 
So I felt like I didn't actually

774
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,200
get anything. 
Room Blades didn't get anything.

775
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,760
And if you've looked at how 
Vincette has been being built 

776
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,560
since and how Viscera has been 
being built since, we don't see 

777
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:29,360
any of the cards that we got in 
Dynasty. 

778
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:33,160
So even though we got printed 
support in Dynasty, they're not 

779
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:36,840
making their way into decks. 
And so it felt like we never got

780
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:43,680
those cards in the first place. 
That was well said. 

781
00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:50,120
I think you guys like really 
covered why it felt so bad to 

782
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:54,440
get support and it was just like
really like even hard to call it

783
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:58,200
a side grade. 
And so I, I won't go into some 

784
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,640
of my examples because I usually
talk about Levy and Bolton quite

785
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:03,640
a bit. 
So you probably know how I feel 

786
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,800
about those guys. 
Yeah. 

787
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,600
If you want to hear Joel talk, 
talk more about how Levy and 

788
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,400
Bolton support missed the mark, 
might I introduce you to a show 

789
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:18,520
called Pitch It to Me podcast? 
Listen to most of our episodes. 

790
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,280
Yeah, it's like the first 52 
episodes. 

791
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,160
We'll tell you how I'm feeling 
about right now. 

792
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,800
But with that being said, I 
think I want to go to the blue 

793
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:28,640
pitch and hear what Fuzzy has to
say. 

794
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:30,360
What do you got? 
Awesome. 

795
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:35,240
So this is going to be the black
sheep of the podcast because I'm

796
00:46:35,240 --> 00:46:38,600
talking about something a little
bit different than what Joel and

797
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:40,880
Clark were talking about with 
their pitches. 

798
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,600
I want to talk about power creep
in the game and how with no 

799
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,080
rotation system, the card pool 
will eventually get larger and 

800
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,280
larger. 
And there's a particular type of

801
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:54,920
card that I think has a really 
big impact on the game, and 

802
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,120
that's majestics and how 
overtime, more and more 

803
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,080
majestics, more and more 
Majestics will have a larger 

804
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,320
impact on the game than other 
cards. 

805
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:04,960
That's my thesis. 
Are you guys ready? 

806
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:11,000
So wait Fuzzy, hold on, can you 
sum this up in like 2 words? 

807
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:15,320
Like what are you talking about?
I'm talking about majestic soup,

808
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,840
that over time when you have 
more options available to you. 

809
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,800
Some of them are majestic, some 
of them are common, some of them

810
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,760
are rare. 
If I only need 60 cards and 

811
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,600
there's 100 majestics in the 
game for me to choose from, why 

812
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:35,880
wouldn't I pick 60 majestics and
just fill my deck with as many 

813
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,240
majestics as possible? 
Because those cards tend to be 

814
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:41,440
better. 
Makes sense? 

815
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:44,280
Very much so. 
And I want to talk about how 

816
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,080
this could have some positive 
and some negative aspects on the

817
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,720
game overall. 
So let me ask you is this would 

818
00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:53,880
you agree with the premise that 
decks only get stronger over 

819
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,680
time in this game? 
No, no, no. 

820
00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:59,800
What is causing decks to get 
weaker then? 

821
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:05,320
The printing of other heroes who
specifically edge out those 

822
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,520
decks. 
So I think the the gust wave 

823
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:12,120
card is a good example of this. 
It made Katsu stronger. 

824
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:17,000
That didn't do, but that didn't 
do enough. 

825
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,280
I think I want to be more 
specific about my definition of 

826
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,120
stronger, because you're totally
right that other decks in the 

827
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,280
meta can cause my hero to be 
less viable. 

828
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:31,400
But as far as like what a deck 
is capable of doing, what Bravo 

829
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,560
right now is capable of doing, I
would say the deck hasn't 

830
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:37,400
actually gotten any weaker. 
So there's a difference between 

831
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:41,440
viability and strength. 
Does that sound like a important

832
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,000
distinction? 
Yes. 

833
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:48,520
And as more cards are printed, 
especially majestic cards, but 

834
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:51,960
really anything in general, what
my deck is capable of doing can 

835
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:53,680
only increase. 
Would you agree with that 

836
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,600
distinction? 
Yeah. 

837
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,680
Yeah, OK, sweet. 
Because that's a very important 

838
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:01,200
point I'm. 
Trying to go. 

839
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:05,320
We need to accept that if we 
don't accept that the all of 

840
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,280
Fuzzy's notes. 
Fuzzy has like a page of notes 

841
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:09,360
on this. 
It all goes to shit. 

842
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:13,520
So as decks in general get 
stronger, that would be what we 

843
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:16,440
refer to as power creep. 
And the game doesn't have very 

844
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:18,800
many defenses against power 
creep. 

845
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:23,640
As cards get stronger, as decks 
get stronger, it'll have a 

846
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:25,960
radical impact on the feel of 
the game. 

847
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,360
That doesn't necessarily mean 
that new sets are stronger. 

848
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:30,320
I think that's what we typically
think of as power creep. 

849
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:33,800
But overall, my card pool is 
expanding, so the number of 

850
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:37,720
cards that I run that are high 
power cards are going to expand.

851
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:41,520
Now there are ways to design 
around that, like designing 

852
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,400
around synergy, etcetera. 
So this is really a theoretical 

853
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:46,720
concept that LSS has the power 
to stop. 

854
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:51,640
But eventually I just have this 
feeling that like as more 

855
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,280
majestics are printed, decks are
going to be all majestics. 

856
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:59,640
And on one hand this can be 
great because majestics are 

857
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:01,800
cool. 
How much dopamine are you 

858
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:06,000
getting from playing a really 
cool like Art of War versus 

859
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,600
playing like Cash In? 
Maybe they're both drawing you 

860
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:13,040
cards, but Art of War is like 
doing more, you know, Spinal 

861
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:17,520
Crush versus Crush the weak. 
Playing that cool Majestic has 

862
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,960
the opportunity to give you a 
cooler experience in the game 

863
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:24,400
because majestics tend to be 
unique and interesting and 

864
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,880
powerful. 
You know, I also think that 

865
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:32,880
majestics define power turns in 
this game, especially now where 

866
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,600
a lot of the times you're 
waiting to see your cool cards. 

867
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,200
This is a little bit of my bias 
as an aggro player because aggro

868
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:40,760
is kind of all about waiting to 
see your power cards and then 

869
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,000
popping off. 
But I would say that it extends 

870
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:45,200
to other classes. 
Like when I'm playing against 

871
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,880
Victor, Victor has his like 
visit the gold main estate, his 

872
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,800
trounces, and when he hits 
those, those are his power turns

873
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,320
where he's able to flip power 
and tempo and take the game 

874
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,200
state. 
And when your deck is all 

875
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:02,880
powerful cards, you're going to 
have fewer off turns, which has 

876
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,240
a dramatic impact on the pacing 
of the game. 

877
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,480
In the early days, you could 
block out a turn and then hope 

878
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:11,880
that they draw Bubkis. 
This is especially true with 

879
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:14,280
different classes. 
If I block out a rune blade, 

880
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,680
maybe they can draw all non 
attacks and I'm saved, saved 

881
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:21,200
with Rangers. 
But with more flexible cards, 

882
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:24,120
more powerful cards, it becomes 
a lot harder to do that. 

883
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,480
Do you think you would rather 
play in a game where there are 

884
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:31,120
fewer off turns in general? 
Oh. 

885
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,520
That's what I was really asking.
Like when I was like writing it,

886
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:35,840
that was the question I was 
asking. 

887
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:41,560
Would I want more or less off 
turn? 

888
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,960
God damn it's such a good 
question I think. 

889
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:53,280
I think I would want less 
because I like having the extra 

890
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:56,720
mini games when you play hero. 
That's what gets me into a hero.

891
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,440
Like Levia has a lot of mini 
games about. 

892
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:03,960
How can I do this exact same 
thing again next turn or maybe a

893
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:07,240
turn after that and still be 
juggling all the shit like blood

894
00:52:07,240 --> 00:52:10,360
debt and and things like that? 
I love that Levia answer if I 

895
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:12,120
could play Levia without off 
turns. 

896
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:15,280
Well, that, that's how I 
started, man. 

897
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,520
I wasn't playing around with 
fucking Demi heroes and shit 

898
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:19,280
like that. 
Yeah. 

899
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,840
You know, I, I think I'm also 
going to agree with Joel, but 

900
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,080
I'm going to agree for a 
different reason, which is that 

901
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:29,680
it feels horrible to block with 
your strong cards. 

902
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:33,840
I've been having some games 
recently where I'm playing 

903
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:37,400
against new and new just throws 
disruption every single turn and

904
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,400
some hands. 
You know, I don't mind that 

905
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:41,120
because like it's an offhand, 
right? 

906
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:44,960
And then other hands, it's like,
Oh my God, this is my strong 

907
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:46,560
hand. 
It just had to line up. 

908
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:50,600
And if I had that feeling every 
single turn of like, God, am I 

909
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,200
really going to block with the 
red majestic that wins me the 

910
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,560
game. 
Wait a minute, my whole deck is 

911
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:57,360
red majestics that win me the 
game. 

912
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,440
I don't want to block with any 
of these. 

913
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:06,800
I don't think that's exactly a 
game that is fun to play because

914
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:12,640
yeah, I think it actually just 
doesn't promote any blocking any

915
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:14,200
of the back and forth and flesh.
And blood. 

916
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:15,760
And that leads into my next 
point. 

917
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:18,400
When you imagine all of your 
cards up, up. 

918
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:22,200
If you imagine a power crap 
scenario where the average card 

919
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:26,800
has a higher value now that it 
does, that affects blocking the 

920
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:29,240
most. 
If right now we imagine a card 

921
00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:32,440
has three points of value, but 
majestics, let's be honest, 

922
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:34,720
probably have more. 
Like how much value are you 

923
00:53:34,720 --> 00:53:35,800
getting into the blood rush 
bellow? 

924
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:37,880
Probably more than three. 
That's why you don't want to 

925
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:39,720
block with it, right? 
It gives you more points when 

926
00:53:39,720 --> 00:53:43,000
you play it. 
And when I look at my Zen hands,

927
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,240
all of my cards are hopefully at
least 4 damage. 

928
00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:48,080
So I don't want to block with 
any of those cards. 

929
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:53,880
So when that becomes the norm, 
then blocking in general gets 

930
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,600
worse unless they start printing
like 3 1/2 for these block 

931
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,560
values or they start printing 
action cards that just block for

932
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:02,040
four. 
Can you imagine that? 

933
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:05,960
It sounds crazy, right? 
Like action cards that block for

934
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:07,880
four. 
Well, I would say that Room 

935
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:10,960
Blades, we've already seen this 
with a lot of Our Majestics 

936
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:14,240
being three blocks and our 
Commons and Rares being two 

937
00:54:14,240 --> 00:54:19,000
blocks. 
Oh, where the Majestics have a 

938
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:20,520
higher block value than the 
other cards? 

939
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:24,280
Yeah, sure. 
But I feel like that pattern of 

940
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:27,120
design has been going away with 
time. 

941
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:29,760
Except for room blades. 
They still have a shit ton of 

942
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:32,080
two blocks in every deck, and 
now no blocks. 

943
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:40,280
Yeah. 
Now, I also believe that this 

944
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:44,200
majestic soup scenario that 
we're talking about is already 

945
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:49,440
becoming a reality. 
And the one the hero that I 

946
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,920
think exemplifies this the most 
is New, especially like 

947
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:57,800
assassins in general, like new 
has a bunch of majestics that 

948
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:01,120
were just printed in this set. 
All the old cool majestics like 

949
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:04,120
Codex of frailty there, she's 
literally using majestics to 

950
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:07,200
recur Her majestics and then 
throw the majestics at you and 

951
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,320
you're getting hit by power card
after power card. 

952
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:12,760
And I'm realizing that like my 
game plan cannot be wait for an 

953
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:16,360
off turn against new because I 
think those off turns are very 

954
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:20,280
rare because of the density of 
really powerful cards in news 

955
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:23,000
deck. 
Yeah, now that is odd because 

956
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:26,640
new is one of the main mechanics
of all the Mystic heroes are 

957
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:31,560
built around Commons in the Chi,
but a lot of the times they feel

958
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:37,640
strong enough that the Chi is 
kind of feels like a majestic. 

959
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:41,280
Anyway, it's like the Chi always
lets you use your headpiece, 

960
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,120
which lets you banish the car, 
man, that's legendary. 

961
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:46,560
So it's like, well, if I take a 
common and a legendary and I 

962
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:50,720
find the middle ground that's 
like just below a majestic so. 

963
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:54,080
If those were literally 
majestics, it would agree more 

964
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:56,320
with the point I'm trying to 
make, because I'm also trying to

965
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:58,640
talk about how expensive the 
game is getting is where I'm 

966
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:01,840
leading next. 
And I would also say New only 

967
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:05,960
runs four or five cheat cards. 
She runs, I think significantly 

968
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:07,960
fewer than some of the other 
Mystic heroes. 

969
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:12,000
She's really leaning more on 
those like heavy power card 

970
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:13,640
majestics that are able to cheat
rates. 

971
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:18,920
Another offender of this. 
I feel like this or I has felt 

972
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:23,760
horrible to build because 
they've been giving Viscerae 

973
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:26,200
support actually fairly 
consistently. 

974
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,280
And even when I'm talking about 
like these sets where I'm not 

975
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:32,360
very happy with the support that
he's gotten and like a lot of 

976
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:36,160
his cards aren't making it in. 
They do give us like a blue non 

977
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:39,840
block majestic or sorry, a blue 
majestic that can block 3A non 

978
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:43,240
tech action card and you're 
like, well, I'll take the blue 

979
00:56:43,240 --> 00:56:46,880
block three that like is on 
strategy. 

980
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:50,760
You can't see it audience. 
I did air quotes and at the 

981
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:55,280
exact same time my red slot 
becomes this thing where I need 

982
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:58,160
to make room for my role player 
Commons and rares. 

983
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:02,200
So I actually have the less red 
slots for My Majestics, but I 

984
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:05,400
want to run all of My Majestics 
because they're what I actually 

985
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,400
need to compete with the other 
heroes right now. 

986
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,800
We have a couple examples 
already of heroes that are 

987
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:16,960
running very high densities of 
majestics, and this leads to the

988
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:19,240
game in general being more 
expensive. 

989
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:22,160
Majestics tend to be pricier 
than Commons and rares. 

990
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:25,120
It kind of used to be that you 
could just buy Command and 

991
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:28,640
Conquerors and find all spring 
Tunic and kind of be set because

992
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:30,680
so much of the game was Commons 
and rares. 

993
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:33,920
But the more sets that are 
printed, the less reasonable 

994
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:36,680
this becomes, the more of those 
like price Your majestics you're

995
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:38,000
going to need to make your deck 
work. 

996
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:42,520
We looked at the deck that just 
won the Pro Tour and it was very

997
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:46,640
heavily like mostly majestic 
cards and I think the other 

998
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:49,400
like. 
I I do want to know here, in 

999
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:52,440
these past 2 examples you've 
mentioned Assassin twice. 

1000
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:57,560
And I think Assassin is 
specifically a new class that is

1001
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:00,440
struggling because they have a 
smaller card pool because 

1002
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:05,600
they've only been printed in two
draftable sets so far, which is 

1003
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:08,000
the lowest out of any other 
class. 

1004
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:12,960
But also so like one, they just 
don't have enough Commons and 

1005
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:14,960
rares. 
I would love that argument if 

1006
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:17,560
you could follow it up by saying
you believe they will play more 

1007
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:20,440
Commons and rares in the future 
if they got more draftable sets.

1008
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:23,640
The other issue is that I feel 
like their design is entirely 

1009
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:26,320
built around being really really
good with these common 

1010
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:29,640
majestics. 
Like they don't have their 

1011
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:33,440
substitute for fine dolls, they 
don't have their substitute for 

1012
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,080
CNC. 
They're really good with every 

1013
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:38,800
single 2 for six disruptive 
generic card. 

1014
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:44,520
Like they just want to run those
expensive cards right? 

1015
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,280
They struggle with go again, so 
they want E strike it. 

1016
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:48,840
It goes on and on. 
Yeah. 

1017
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:55,800
And this power creep that we're 
talking about, I want to point 

1018
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:58,760
out that it doesn't affect the 
game unilaterally. 

1019
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:02,760
That is to say, if I'm an Armory
level player, I probably will 

1020
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:06,280
build decks that are easily 
approachable, but there's also 

1021
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,800
likely to be people at those 
armories that are running these 

1022
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:12,320
high level competitive decks 
that are being power cracked the

1023
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:14,840
most. 
That the the distance between 

1024
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:18,040
the top decks and the bottom 
decks I think is getting farther

1025
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:20,480
and farther apart as the game is
power creeping. 

1026
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:24,440
And it exacerbates this problem 
that Flesh and Blood already is 

1027
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:29,280
starting to have, where the 
competitive players are 

1028
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:31,880
unapproachable to the newer 
players. 

1029
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:34,240
It's harder and harder for newer
players to win games. 

1030
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:38,200
That is true. 
Like the the leap that you guys 

1031
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:44,400
took to join Flesh and Blood is 
gonna seem a lot easier than 

1032
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:48,120
what players that in a few years
will have to be jumping through.

1033
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:52,720
Like, think about how many 
heroes we have and triple it and

1034
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:56,120
think about a Flesh and Blood 
player joining the game in like 

1035
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:58,200
10 years. 
Yeah, with this level of 

1036
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:01,920
gameplay, it's crazy. 
I'm so glad you brought that up,

1037
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:05,880
Clark, because the way this game
changes over time, when we're 

1038
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:08,880
imagining this player 2 years 
from now, maybe even five years 

1039
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:12,720
from now, there might be 0 
heroes that exist in the game 

1040
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:16,680
now that are still legal in the 
game five years from now. 

1041
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:19,440
You're going to say that Levaya 
is going to Living Legend out in

1042
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:20,280
five years? 
I'm. 

1043
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:21,760
Saying it's a possibility, I 
don't. 

1044
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:25,800
Believe you OK over my. 95% of 
the heroes will. 

1045
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:31,400
Take out Leviathan Bolton, baby.
We we're still fighting, yeah. 

1046
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:36,720
And this new cast of heroes that
will exist in two, five years, 

1047
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:40,600
10 years, we'll still have the 
same card pool that we're 

1048
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:44,080
working with now, but like 
double or triple the size. 

1049
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:46,400
And what do you think those 
decks might look like? 

1050
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:49,880
I think whether or not they are 
Majestic Soup or whether they 

1051
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:56,320
are like synergy based Commons 
and Rares Chowder, I think like 

1052
01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:59,720
we need to remember that this 
game changes over time and we 

1053
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:03,120
need to be ready to adapt to the
way that this game is not going 

1054
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:07,520
to be the same in the future and
we have to be ready to love a 

1055
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:09,600
new game. 
I talk about this all the time 

1056
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:12,840
because it's crazy to me how 
there's always something to 

1057
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:15,440
complain about because we fall 
in love with this game and it 

1058
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:17,680
changes. 
They literally print a new game 

1059
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:22,880
every four months and these 
changes, hopefully LSS will find

1060
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:26,640
ways to make these graceful 
changes as we mature into 

1061
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:30,160
whatever game we're going into. 
So I got a little spiritual 

1062
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:31,600
there. 
No, I love it. 

1063
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:33,120
Fuzzy. 
That was awesome. 

1064
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:36,040
All right, that's all I wanted 
to say. 

1065
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:38,160
I definitely wrote the most 
notes, but I think I managed to 

1066
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:41,600
make my pitch the shortest one. 
That was so succinct, I loved 

1067
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:44,120
that. 
Me and Joel really stumbled. 

1068
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:46,800
You guys ready to go to our 
Arsenal zone? 

1069
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:48,440
Let's do it. 
Yeah. 

1070
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:50,680
What the fuck is an Arsenal 
zone? 

1071
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:54,720
Well, you see Fuzzy at the end 
of your turn when you move to 

1072
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:58,800
when both players pass priority 
to move into the end phase, the 

1073
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:01,880
active player gets to take one 
of their cards and put it into 

1074
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:05,200
something called the Arsenal 
Zone, which is a place on the 

1075
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:08,960
arena where cards are put face 
down and you can then play cards

1076
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:11,960
out of that zone. 
It's also where we like to talk 

1077
01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:13,960
about a card we've been thinking
about In Flesh and Blood 

1078
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:17,720
recently, whether we love it, 
hate it, love to hate it, or 

1079
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:19,640
just don't really have any 
thoughts about it and want to 

1080
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:21,720
spend 2 minutes talking about 
that. 

1081
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:26,160
Joel, why don't you lead us off?
Sure. 

1082
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:28,080
So we already talked about 
unsheathed. 

1083
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:30,200
That was one card that I really 
wanted to talk about. 

1084
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:33,560
But one thing that I think 
exemplifies this episode really 

1085
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:36,040
well is T-bone. 
Because. 

1086
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:42,120
Because, as you know, listeners,
Bright Lights was the second set

1087
01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:44,720
where Mecha Knowledge has 
appeared in like more than three

1088
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:49,480
cards since its release. 3 is a 
little bit of an understatement,

1089
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:52,640
but sure. 
It was the second draftable set 

1090
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:55,200
for mechanologists. 
Same amount of draftable sets 

1091
01:02:55,200 --> 01:03:00,960
for Mechanologists and Assassin.
Yeah, so I that means it's like 

1092
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:02,520
a a low amount of cards is what 
I'm saying. 

1093
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:05,240
They've had the smallest card 
pool before yes. 

1094
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:10,240
And the reason why I like T-bone
is because even though it was 

1095
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:14,160
one card, it was like an auto 
include like it, it felt so 

1096
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:21,800
natural to dash in general. 
And it's a really good meta 

1097
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:24,600
call. 
Like one thing about the Lexi 

1098
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:27,400
meta and the current meta is 
there's a lot of like blade 

1099
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:30,560
break and aggressive like 
slanted armor. 

1100
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:37,640
And Dash continues to be a like 
very unique meta call where she 

1101
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:40,760
can kind of just shred your 
important armor pieces and you 

1102
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:42,560
straight UPS can't play the game
sometimes. 

1103
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:49,760
Like if Zen loses Traverse Shuko
and Stride early on, he only 

1104
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:51,880
has, you know, the actual 
resource. 

1105
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:55,000
Or if Lexi loses New Horizons, 
that's literally game over. 

1106
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:59,800
And so I was just thinking about
T-bone. 

1107
01:03:59,920 --> 01:04:04,080
I thought it was cool that one 
card made Dash such a huge 

1108
01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:08,360
inclusion in every meta because 
of that, even though she, you 

1109
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:09,560
know, took forever to get 
support. 

1110
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:13,080
Yeah, I love like how T-bone 
gives Mechanologist that 

1111
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:16,240
specific point in the meta to 
punish those heroes that like to

1112
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:18,360
run blade Break equipment, you 
know? 

1113
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:23,440
It's a fascinating, flavorful, 
disruptive piece which has given

1114
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:28,560
Mechanologist a interesting way 
to impact the meta and stay 

1115
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:32,280
relevant in instances where 
people would normally not 

1116
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:34,160
consider them. 
And I think one thing I also 

1117
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:37,840
really like about this card is 
it's a little bit under rate 

1118
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:40,640
power wise and it's being 
blocked by an equipment. 

1119
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:44,040
So you're spending a card to 
probably not deal any damage. 

1120
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:47,720
And this disruption can like 
change your game plan. 

1121
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:50,360
Like, all right, opponent, 
you've built a game plan around 

1122
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:51,760
this equipment. 
What are you going to do now 

1123
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:53,560
that they're gone? 
And I like forces you to 

1124
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:54,680
improvise a little bit as a 
player. 

1125
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:56,840
OK, now what are my win 
conditions in my outs? 

1126
01:04:57,040 --> 01:05:01,000
And I like that it shifts the 
game so drastically, while not 

1127
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:03,800
so drastically that that 
completely screws that hit that 

1128
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:06,200
hero over. 
Yeah. 

1129
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:10,600
Excellent pick, Joel. 
Thank you. 

1130
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:15,560
Fuzzy, what about you? 
So I think I got called out last

1131
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:18,200
episode for not shouting out 
Bramble sparks. 

1132
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:19,840
So I'm shouting out Bramble 
sparks. 

1133
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:22,720
Oh, you cut it. 
I cut it from the episode. 

1134
01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:29,040
Clark was giving me shit last 
week because I apparently said I

1135
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:31,760
was going to shout out Bramble 
Spark last week and I did it. 

1136
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,320
So I'm here this week. 
Sprayable Spark. 

1137
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:36,200
It's one of my favorite Briar 
cards. 

1138
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:39,640
You show your opponent here, 
look at my Earth card, and you 

1139
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:42,040
get to give your next attack any
attack action. 

1140
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:46,840
It can be Small, big +3 and 
dearly 1 arcane damage when it 

1141
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:49,920
attacks. 
A0 for four pump. 

1142
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:53,560
Sheesh. 
You just have to recommend. 

1143
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:57,760
Could never. 
And it always deals 1 arcane 

1144
01:05:57,760 --> 01:06:00,800
even if you don't fuse, which is
less cool than giving plus 3. 

1145
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:03,240
But also it's kind of really 
cool because that arcane is a 

1146
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:05,520
really good way to finish games 
and it's nice to have as a 

1147
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:08,200
reliable method. 
I'm probably going to run this 

1148
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:12,480
card in my shitty Chanamat 
heroic Florian build, so we'll 

1149
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:14,080
see how that goes. 
Probably not. 

1150
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:16,680
Well, Florian does not look like
he likes to go fast. 

1151
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:21,480
Hey, 0 for four is just fucking 
good man. 

1152
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:24,680
Like you don't gotta it. 
It just needs to be a 0 for 

1153
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:28,840
four. 
So that's the card I'm shouting 

1154
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:32,000
out and I have a copy that I'm 
signing and giving to each of 

1155
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:33,680
you. 
Thank you so much. 

1156
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:36,640
Let's go. 
Clark, what do you got? 

1157
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:42,400
So the card that I got today I 
decided to do a repeat of last 

1158
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:46,080
week and click the Randomize Me 
Captain button on the card 

1159
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:49,920
database and I had to actually 
press it a couple times before I

1160
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:51,520
found a card I actually wanted 
to talk about. 

1161
01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:55,440
Cheater. 
But I did find a card Grasp of 

1162
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:59,040
the Arc Knight. 
So this is a legendary equipment

1163
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:01,560
all the way back from Arcane 
Rising. 

1164
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:05,000
Wow, it's A2 block battle 
warrant that once per turn I can

1165
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:10,000
pay 2 resources to create a rune
chant token, but it costs one 

1166
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:12,280
more for each rune chant that's 
already on the field. 

1167
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:15,800
So if I have one rune chant, 
it'll cost a whole blue card to 

1168
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:19,760
make another rune chant now. 
And it has go again which is 

1169
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:21,920
cool. 
So I like grass for the Ark 

1170
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:26,240
Knight because one it has some 
really fascinating little play 

1171
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:29,560
lines that you can end up doing 
like in late game situations. 

1172
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:33,440
This could be a one card 4 
damage creating our own little 

1173
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:36,480
like room blade Titan's fist 
with Reaping blade where we 

1174
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:38,960
pitch to this and make a rune 
chant and then spin the floating

1175
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:40,520
resource to attack with reaping 
blade. 

1176
01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:42,240
That's so funny. 
And that's one arcane, 3 

1177
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:43,840
physical. 
It's like better than a Titan's 

1178
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:51,120
Fist because it's split damage, 
but at the exact and it's just 

1179
01:07:51,120 --> 01:07:55,280
kind of like this generically 
good arms piece that has never 

1180
01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:58,160
really been bad. 
But I think it's going to be 

1181
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:02,800
really interesting to see how 
this fits into Florian's play 

1182
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:08,080
style and how this and how maybe
even fits into Aurora's play 

1183
01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:10,320
style. 
Because so far this has been an 

1184
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:15,040
auto include for rune blades. 
And it's going to be fascinating

1185
01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:18,880
to see if they create equipment 
that is intending to contest 

1186
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:22,560
with Grasp of the Ark Knight or 
there's a play pattern that can 

1187
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:25,479
incorporate this very awkward 
ability. 

1188
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:28,000
Because the moment that you have
a room chant this card, it's 

1189
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:32,279
really underrate the ability. 
But if you don't have one and 

1190
01:08:32,279 --> 01:08:35,359
you really need one, it's 
actually a very efficient way to

1191
01:08:35,359 --> 01:08:39,760
create a room chant, which with 
the cost reduction on a lot of 

1192
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:42,880
room blade cards, could actually
end up giving you 2 value for 

1193
01:08:42,880 --> 01:08:46,880
two resources. 
I love this card and I love that

1194
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:49,160
discovery moment when you first 
start playing with it. 

1195
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:53,840
Like as a newer player, I'm like
2 resources for one rune chant 

1196
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:56,720
that doesn't sound very good. 
And then you start playing with 

1197
01:08:56,720 --> 01:09:00,279
it and you're like, Oh no, this 
is really nice because sometimes

1198
01:09:00,279 --> 01:09:03,479
you just need to spend your 
resources on something and being

1199
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:06,040
able to get a rune chant is like
never bad. 

1200
01:09:06,359 --> 01:09:09,080
It's so like reliable. 
And then it blocks for three, 

1201
01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:11,160
which used to be really fucking 
good. 

1202
01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:15,600
It still is really fucking good.
Yeah, like I would say that it's

1203
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:18,080
going like one of the reasons 
why I'm really interested to see

1204
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:21,200
if Aurora runs it is because, 
like having three extra block in

1205
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:24,560
Aurora could be a massive 
fucking deal for that hero. 

1206
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:27,319
We're seeing Zen as an aggro 
deck, just being able to block 

1207
01:09:27,319 --> 01:09:30,120
for two with his equipment feels
huge compared to other ninjas. 

1208
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:33,920
Yeah, and like Brian Go has said
that if he could go back and 

1209
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:36,560
change anything about Traverse, 
he'd go for making it A2 block 

1210
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:40,040
to A1 block, right? 
Like that extra point of value 

1211
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:43,080
can make a world of difference 
to heroes. 

1212
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:51,600
Awesome fun card, yeah. 
Well, cool, we'll go for. 

1213
01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:53,880
It Yep. 
Well, cool. 

1214
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:56,400
I think that sums everything up 
really well. 

1215
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:00,480
I think it's time to end the 
episode. 

1216
01:10:00,480 --> 01:10:02,040
What? 
What about you guys? 

1217
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:04,280
No, let's keep podcasting for 
that. 

1218
01:10:04,280 --> 01:10:07,040
Yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, let's do a whole other run

1219
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:10,120
of Arsenal's own cards. 
I felt like these were weak. 

1220
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:12,840
I think we need to do a whole 
nother 3 cards, Fuzzy. 

1221
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:15,960
Go inside, go get your binder. 
Go pull out two more cards. 

1222
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:19,880
OK, you guys don't get signed 
ones when we do double Arsenal 

1223
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:23,880
zone that's. 
One new rule, I am already not 

1224
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:25,680
getting a signed grasp of the 
Ark Knight. 

1225
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:27,480
You can at least get me another 
fucking comment. 

1226
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:30,960
All right, I'll find a comment 
for you, Joel. 

1227
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:38,880
Do I have to talk about it too? 
All right, everyone, thanks for 

1228
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:41,000
listening to our podcast. 
We'll see you next week. 

1229
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:06,840
Fidget to me. 
Podcast is hosted by Joel 

1230
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:09,400
Rosinos, Clark Moore and Fuzzy 
Delt. 

1231
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:13,840
Our executive producer is Talon 
Stradley, music is produced by 

1232
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:18,080
Dylan Hulse, logo is designed by
Han V and our sound mixing is 

1233
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:21,080
done by Christopher Moore. 
Last but not least, thank you 

1234
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:23,800
the listener for taking the time
to listen to our podcast. 

1235
01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:26,400
Be sure to give us a follow on 
your favorite social media 

1236
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:28,680
platform at Fidget to Me 
Podcast.