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Welcome to Pitch to Me podcast, 
a show about the subjective 

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past, present and potential 
future of flesh and blood 

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design. 
Today's episode will be about 

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part the mist veil and its 
impact on flesh and blood. 

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You can find us across all 
socials such as Blue Sky and 

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Instagram at Pitch to Me 
podcast. 

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I'm Joel and I'm fuzzy. 
No. 

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My name. 
Is Clark. 

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So did you guys see this new 
Iris spoiler? 

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So we're not gonna do a second 
day. 

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I might keep that one, but let's
keep that one. 

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Let's do another one. 
Yeah. 

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I'm Joel. 
I'm Clark. 

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And I'm fuzzy, so we got some 
new. 

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We're all with those spoilers. 
Yeah, we saw a new headpiece and

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arms piece that are going to be 
in the IRA Armory deck and 

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actually really fucking hyped 
for them. 

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The headpiece could like only be
used by IRA because it fishes 

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out Whirling Miss Blossom which 
is an IRA specialization. 

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But as a Katsu gamer, that arms 
piece looks pretty sick. 

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Yeah, it does. 
Yeah, he'd be playing with names

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recently, so I can imagine that 
he's gonna be all over that. 

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And God forbid there's anything 
else good in that Armory deck. 

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Yeah. 
Abuse. 

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I like it because it feels like 
they really designed it around 

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IRA. 
Yeah. 

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And then the moment that it had 
the rename thing, they were like

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maybe. 
Katsu I totally like. 

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I guess we'll have to see. 
I do love that it's like 

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definitely an IRA design that 
Katsu can probably like do good 

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things with and that's really 
cool. 

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Yeah, no, I'm really excited 
about it. 

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As someone who did a lot of 
brewing with Ira to see if she 

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could make it in the Haunted 
meta, she could not. 

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I'm really excited by these new 
play lines opening up. 

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Obviously, we need to see a lot 
more of it. 

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I do expect us to see a lot more
of it, actually, even before 

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this episode comes. 
I think the episode is going to 

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come out. 
We might already have a full 

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deck list. 
Absolutely, because LSS has some

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other news dropping today. 
Not, not the day that we're 

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recording, the day this episode 
is coming out. 

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Oh, you scared me. 
On a blue sky, they changed 

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their banner to 712025 suspense 
and it's like, fuck, what does 

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that mean? 
But guess what? 

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This episode is releasing July 
1st. 

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So. 
So we'll find out together. 

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Yes, we'll find out together. 
But hey, if it hasn't come out 

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yet, leave us a comment. 
Tell us what you think it's 

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going to be. 
I think it's going to be the new

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set announcement. 
It could be, yeah. 

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Oh, that would be just. 
What do we think, Brick Wizard? 

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I don't think it's going to be a
set announcement actually, OK. 

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What do you think it's going to 
be? 

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I think I'm on the camp that 
people I've seen are talking 

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about it being a new keyword or 
like rules text. 

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Because it's in the same font as
like a rules text, it kind of 

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looks. 
Like it looks like for like the 

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guardian mastery. 
Set it could be the IRA deck, 

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maybe the IRA deck, probably 
more the IRA deck. 

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But I don't know if suspense 
it's just written in that font. 

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I have no idea what kind of a 
mechanic could be called 

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suspense, but. 
Joel see The thing is like now 

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when I think of suspense as a 
keyword and what classes might 

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use it, I immediately think of 
like shadow or assassin. 

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And I've been told by many of my
haters AKA podcast hosts monarch

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3 is not due till 2026. 
So I think it's like assassin 

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with Bru who? 
The fuck told you that? 

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Because they're right. 
Hey, assassin brute sounds 

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interesting. 
I mean, assassin necromancer 

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brute in the Savage Land sounds 
kind of that would be kind of 

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gas. 
I'm not kind of gas. 

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I won't cap anyway. 
I could also do with like a 

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whole year without an assassin. 
Me too, me too, but that's 

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'cause I'm a hater, not cuz of 
any logistical precedent. 

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Well, let's start talking about 

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today's episode. 
Today's episode inspiration is 

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that Enigma LLD and new LLD and 
we, there was so much going on 

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in the world of flesh and blood 
when they hit Living Legend, we 

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didn't really have the time to 
do our traditional debrief 

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episode. 
We try to always take an 

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episode, look at a hero, their 
journey, what a reprinted 

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version of them may look like. 
We love recording those episodes

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to kind of talk about the 
history of the hero once they 

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leave. 
Classic constructed. 

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You guys don't though? 
You guys don't watch those 

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videos? 
The one with Aurora, Aurora 

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Aurora did very very well. 
That's just cuz we had a based. 

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Guest like it has nothing to do 
with the episode itself. 

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But so we wanna try to do 
something a little bit different

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because all of Miss Vale has now
LLD. 

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We're gonna spin the entire 
episode talking about Miss Vale.

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It has some really unique 
designs. 

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It was a really era defining 
set. 

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I would say absolutely. 2024 
definitely feels almost defined 

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by the power level of Missed 
Veil. 

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Totally. 
And the beginning of 2025 too. 

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So like this a whole year just 
defined by this one set. 

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Yeah, we do wanna ask you, 
audience, what is your favorite 

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aspect of Mist Veil and why 
should that come back when we 

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return to Mysteria or why should
it not come back? 

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We'll want to hear those 
thoughts too. 

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It's a very varied and nuanced 
set and topic, and everyone has 

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different opinions, so we want 
to hear about them. 

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Yeah, definitely. 
With all that being said, let's 

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go over our three pitches. 
In our first red pitch, Fuzzy is

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going to go over a lot of the 
mechanics that were introduced 

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in Mist Veil. 
I'm going to go through the 

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three heroes and the different 
things that they're doing there.

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I'm going to be taking our 
second pitch, yellow pitch, and 

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talk about why was Miss Veil so 
strong specifically. 

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Everyone talks about its power, 
but like why though? 

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Let's let's dig into the why. 
And then in Blue Pitch, Joel is 

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going to lead us through the 
future of Part the Miss Veil and

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what Mystic might look like in 
the future, sort of drawing on 

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the lessons that we have learned
as a community and as pretend 

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designers and what that might 
look like for LSS as they take 

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it into the next step. 
You guys excited? 

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I'm excited. 
I'm excited. 

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I was born excited. 
All I'm going to take it away 

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with red pitch, then I'm going 
to be talking about the three 

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different heroes and the Mystic 
talent a little bit and just 

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what new mechanics we saw and 
how the design of the game was 

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furthered when the set came out.
So to get us in the spirit of my

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pitch here, every time a new 
hero is printed, it's an LSS 

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chance to reevaluate what it 
means to be a member of that 

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class and or talent combination.
And it's a chance for us to 

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learn more about what LSS 
intends for the future of that 

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class. 
So let's start with talking 

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about Enigma. 
Enigma has advanced illusionist 

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design by making a board state 
hero that is much easier to 

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interact with than other board 
state heroes in the past. 

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Now a granted Second Prism did 
this a little bit too because 

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all of Second Prisms allies have
ward on them. 

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But she also still played a good
amount of Spectra auras and she 

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had these figments that couldn't
be interacted with at all until 

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they flip. 
Enigma specializes in ward auras

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that will go away the second 
enigma would take damage. 

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They also protect her so it 
makes it harder for her to take 

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damage. 
So if she has multiple ward 

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auras set up, she can use some 
of those existing ones to 

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protect the ones she has. 
And she is incentivized to play 

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very defensively. 
So she can protect these ward 

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auras on the field. 
And they become very above rate 

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weapons and give her repeating 
value the longer they stay out. 

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I kind of remember liking this 
shift when all of, like, think 

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of this going back to spoiler 
season, right? 

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You saw that, like, Enigma was 
going to be all about these Ward

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auras. 
I remember being excited because

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I wasn't going to have to face 
off against any Spectra. 

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Yeah. 
I think you could probably go 

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back to our part the miss fail 
spoiler episode and find 

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multiple moments of us being 
like they finally fixed the 

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illusionist class like that was 
our click bait. 

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And like, looking back, I'm not 
sure how fixed the Illusionist 

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is. 
Enigma is still kind of like a 

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big pain in the ass to play 
against. 

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I think the idea of letting her 
defend her board state is 

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something that was distinctly 
different from the other 

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illusionist and something that a
lot of people missed when they 

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first read how she was going to 
be working as a hero. 

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Yeah, because you can't really 
defend Spectra auras once they 

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get attacked, the illusionist 
doesn't have a say in it. 

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If your allies get attacked, you
don't get to defend or use 

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defense reactions. 
But with the ward auras, because

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you're attacking the hero, 
suddenly there's a lot more 

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agency to the illusionist 
player. 

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Another thing I like about a lot
of the Mystic illusionist cards 

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is that they get better when you
have no auras on the board. 

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Think like spectral 
manifestations. 

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Yeah, it will always give you a 
spectral shield, but it will 

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come in with plus one counters 
if you didn't have any. 

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Auras before which you really 
needed to make it worth the cost

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that you were putting into the 
card. 

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Exactly, 2GO again to make one 
Spectral Shield is not that 

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good, but those plus one 
counters make it a really nice 

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card to play, especially when 
you have like Reality Refractor 

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or whatever, or as you're 
running like the core design for

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Mystic Illusionist seems to 
imply that there's a give and 

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take on your board. 
I want you to clear my auras so 

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that I can reset and play my 
auras when I have no auras on 

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the board. 
That way they're stronger. 

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I want you to kind of deal 
damage to me. 

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I almost want you to do exactly 
as much damage as I have Ward on

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the board. 
But it encourages the 

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illusionist player, specifically
Enigma, to get this value out of

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blocking damage with Ward 
instead of just like leaving 

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your auras on the board. 
You know, I feel like the most 

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well known Mystic Lucianist card
is the Manifestations of Maragi.

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Manifestations of Maragi. 
That card is so overtuned and it

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doesn't quite fit this this 
design, right? 

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There's no incentive for Enigma 
to get rid of her board before 

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she plays Manifestations of 
Maragi other than the fact that 

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like, if she has a full grip 
it'll be a lot easier for her to

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stick it and land it and push 
like command and conquer on the 

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same turn as she drops the 
manifestations. 

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Yeah, it's honestly really, 
really hard to play 

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Manifestations in the most ideal
game state, aside from the fact 

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that Transverse the Universe 
just gets you the free chi that 

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you needed to play it. 
That's why true. 

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00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:41,440
But in terms of like if you're 
thinking starting from nothing, 

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I need to play a blue, then I 
need to transcend, then I need 

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to use that the play 
manifestations and then get 

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another resource to swing 
manifestations. 

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It's honestly pretty difficult. 
And adding on to that give and 

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take aspect, the cheek cards 
that you kind of have to play to

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play any of these Mystic heroes,
they don't block, which makes it

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a lot harder for me to defend my
auras on the field. 

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There's a little bit more of 
that expectation that I'm going 

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to be taking damage when I have 
to run non block cards. 

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And a lot of her auras that she 
had to play are instant non 

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blocks. 
Yeah, yeah, making it even 

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harder to protect the board. 
And if you play them 

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defensively, oh, it's just bad 
value. 

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Going alphabetically, I want to 
move on to new new pushed 

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assassin design by actually 
returning to a few ideas that 

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were already established in 
assassins like Arachne and 

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Missouri. 
Like, and I'm talking about 

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contract Arachne, right? 
Like at the time we hadn't seen 

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the Haunted yet, but we still 
saw this repeated pattern of 

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three different things. 
I'm going to talk about deck 

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damage, attack reactions, and 
disruption all seem pretty core 

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to the assassin class, even 
before we saw new but new added 

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on to each of these different 
design aspects. 

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00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,360
All of the stealth cards that 
were printed, maybe not all of 

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00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:00,720
them don't Fact Check me yet. 
That wasn't the literal all, but

227
00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:02,960
most of them. 
Most of new stealth cards 

228
00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:04,440
banished off the top of your 
deck. 

229
00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:09,120
So you can either like use a 
card to block or you can take 

230
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,400
damage and lose a card off the 
top of your deck. 

231
00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,720
It puts the value proposition 
actually pretty below rate. 

232
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,400
If you're going to disrespect 
the attacks that are coming at 

233
00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,600
you, you really want to be 
getting cards to new, but then 

234
00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,320
you're going to like potentially
be banishing cards that might be

235
00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,800
gaining her life anyway. 
It's puts you in a tricky 

236
00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:33,320
position and it's a very grindy 
long term plan that Assassin has

237
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,760
again had the design cemented in
the past and is being added onto

238
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,160
with cards like these. 
Yeah, it definitely blended the 

239
00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:45,920
card pools of Arachne and Zuri 
mechanically, where Azuri 

240
00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:52,280
stealth cards dealt with giving 
out those disease tokens and 

241
00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,480
with other secondary effects. 
And then Arachne had the 

242
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,560
contract cards that dealt the 
deck damage and gave you an 

243
00:12:57,560 --> 00:12:59,360
award, a reward when they got 
banished. 

244
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:04,400
Now they are taking the stealth,
the zero for three baseline and 

245
00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:09,000
the and the stealth keyword. 
And then they take that deck 

246
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,920
damage idea from the Iraqi and 
the reward when you banish 

247
00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,160
something. 
Yeah, and put them together. 

248
00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:15,960
They put them both onto these 
cards. 

249
00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,680
So I think they took the best 
part of each of the two 

250
00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,080
mechanical ideas expressed in 
Dynasty and Outsiders and 

251
00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,760
combine them in Misfail. 
I think that was a big home run.

252
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,000
They think what really pushed it
over the edge was not only do 

253
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,000
these stealth cards banished 
from the top and they get 

254
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,240
bonuses based off what they 
banished, similar to contract 

255
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,040
cards. 
So there's, you know, Arachne 

256
00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:41,080
coded, but News hero ability 
also banished action cards when 

257
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,120
the combat chain closed, which 
triggered a lot of these stealth

258
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,480
cards as well. 
Could you imagine if Huntsman 

259
00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,360
had that ability? 
Oh, they'd be insane. 

260
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,440
They'd have silver stacked up to
the fucking ceiling. 

261
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,720
So you just trigger your 
equipment over and over and new 

262
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,960
got it for free. 
A lot of them were like draw a 

263
00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,640
card and gain a life and you had
an excess amount of go again in 

264
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,440
that class. 
So it's like, I think they did a

265
00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,480
really good job, like Clark 
said, about marrying the two 

266
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:12,120
design philosophies in the 1st 2
Assassins and then just broke it

267
00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:16,720
beyond recognition with that 
hero ability because that was 

268
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:20,000
what Iraq was supposed to be, 
was that you're damned if you 

269
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,800
do, damned if you don't, and now
you have the best attack 

270
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,360
reactions to push anything over 
the edge. 

271
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,000
And Speaking of attack 
reactions, we saw a return to 

272
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,000
that idea as it being a core 
assassin identity. 

273
00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,360
We had cards that literally said
hey I am shitty until you play 

274
00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,080
one attack reaction then my 
damage can't be prevented. 

275
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,960
Or you play 2 attack reactions 
and I'll be able to banish 2 

276
00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,160
cards off the top of the 
opponent's deck and get 

277
00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,720
additional power from my own 
ability. 

278
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,200
Double Trouble is still so far. 
I love that card so double 

279
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,440
trouble is sick. 
I love that card also because 

280
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,520
the on hit isn't crazy. 
Debilitating Bonds of agony 

281
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,760
still triggers me. 
Yeah, that card is pretty nuts, 

282
00:14:58,080 --> 00:14:59,000
but double? 
Trouble. 

283
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:00,920
That's just a limited. 
Bomb baby. 

284
00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,840
Yeah, yeah. 
And I love that focus of our 

285
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,840
cards are shitty until you're 
playing attack reactions above 

286
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:09,880
them. 
It's like this kind of tempo 

287
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:11,640
based. 
Like Assassin is kind of 

288
00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,960
aggressive because you need to 
have attacks to play and attack 

289
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,400
reactions to play, and maybe 
even pitch cards to fuel your 

290
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,520
attack reactions. 
Which was being demanded by the 

291
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,800
venomous bite and hiss designs 
which required a blue to be in 

292
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:29,520
the pitch zone to get the 4th 
value, justifying the 1 cost. 

293
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,200
Yeah, yeah. 
So you'd require at least three 

294
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,880
card hands. 
And so I had this like mid range

295
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,120
slash aggressive bite to it. 
Even though Assassin's kind of 

296
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,880
like a control deck, it has a 
late game plan. 

297
00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,240
Even though it's rewarding you 
for keeping cards in hand. 

298
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,640
It's kind of a weird middle 
ground that Assassin lives in. 

299
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:51,640
They also cemented Assassin as 
the disruptive class by giving 

300
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,800
it by literally I think by 
giving them one card, Bonds of 

301
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,760
Agony. 
Oh my God yeah that card is 

302
00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,560
disgusting. 
I think flesh and blood needs to

303
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:05,920
have strong disruptive effects. 
You know, like crippling crush 

304
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,520
used to be like one of the 
biggest things you could do to 

305
00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,240
ruin a player's turn. 
Or spinal Crush, like Guardian 

306
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:12,600
kind of has that place in the 
meta, right? 

307
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,800
Like it's important that some 
classes have better disruption 

308
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:16,880
than others. 
Absolutely. 

309
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,400
Because like at generic, what's 
the most disruptive effect we 

310
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:20,560
have? 
I think it's just command and 

311
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:22,680
conquer. 
Command and conquer is it's a 

312
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,120
big deal because it's a lot of 
value, but it's not that big of 

313
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,120
a deal because it can only stop 
you from having a 5 card hand. 

314
00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,520
It can't even stop you from 
having a four card hand, right? 

315
00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:35,040
There's some other like specific
hate cards, but I just think 

316
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,360
Bonds of Agony does have that 
important place in the meta of 

317
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:43,080
being able to completely shut 
down disrespective decks, you 

318
00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,600
know, aggressive decks. 
And I also kind of like that 

319
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,600
Bons of Acne is hard to do 
multiple times per turn or per 

320
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:51,280
game. 
Sorry. 

321
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:53,120
It's really easy to do once, 
right? 

322
00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,160
You have like the fucking shoes 
that are like 2 attack reactions

323
00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,440
in one and it gives go again. 
Yeah, yeah, it's really easy to 

324
00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:00,920
play the first Bons of Agony 
out. 

325
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,920
And if you're playing against an
aggressive deck, aggressive 

326
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,760
decks don't want you to even 
have the opportunity to play 

327
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,760
like multiple Bonds of Agony. 
So I kind of recognize it as 

328
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,520
like an important thing in the 
meta that stops aggressive 

329
00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,400
decks. 
It's just so fucking annoying 

330
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,119
because you're taking out my 
good cards in my deck. 

331
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,480
Like you're forcing me to block 
with cards like Blood Rush 

332
00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:23,000
Fellow or like Whelming Gust 
Wave, Surging Strike, because I 

333
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,599
don't want you to fucking search
out those cards out of my deck 

334
00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:29,440
and then forbid me from playing 
them in the future. 

335
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:31,360
The problem? 
With giving them access to bonds

336
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,760
is like most of the aggressive 
decks will run like a lots of 

337
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,160
redundant copies of the same 
card so it doesn't really hurt 

338
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,760
them the same way that it hurts 
mid range decks where they look 

339
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,320
to pivot around these tempo 
plays by maneuvering around one 

340
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,040
specific card in the arsenal. 
Or maybe they just save up for 

341
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,600
like like you said, a blood rush
bellow or like a really big 

342
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:56,600
spinal crush and then bonds of 
acne will just RIP out those 3 

343
00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,880
copies that you need to like 
make impactful plays. 

344
00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:03,000
Especially if you're a hero that
hasn't had a lot of really 

345
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,360
impactful support lately. 
Like those are the only cards 

346
00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:08,240
you have access to to claw back 
in a game, and now they're gone 

347
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:12,240
for basically one turn of either
a misplay or they just had it 

348
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,840
and you didn't. 
The I do want to mention one 

349
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:19,000
other thing about new and that's
a completely new type of effect 

350
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:23,200
that we had not seen in flesh 
and blood until new debuted it, 

351
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,680
and that's playing opponents 
cards. 

352
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,640
I mean, technically we saw like 
infiltrate like isn't a mechanic

353
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,320
that existed, but new decided 
that in order to embody that 

354
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:37,960
flavor of this Mystic assassin 
slash prostitute that gets into 

355
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,880
your head and kind of like works
your mind from the inside out. 

356
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,800
She they wanted to give her the 
ability to play opponents cards 

357
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:47,760
usually like in the very late 
game, right? 

358
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,120
They want it to be a late game 
reward and they wanted to 

359
00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:52,600
restrict it in a way where it's 
not super crazy. 

360
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,080
I think that's what they were 
going for when they said he can 

361
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,720
only play Blues. 
Yeah, I don't know what the fuck

362
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,320
we were cooking with that one, 
to be completely fair. 

363
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,760
I I can tell you probably what 
went through the LSS, which is, 

364
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,600
God, this is a really cool 
fucking fun ability and it 

365
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,920
creates some really interesting 
matchups where some decks don't 

366
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:16,400
run Blues And so she just never 
has a hero ability, but then 

367
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,800
like it causes guardians to 
fucking suck and like she's 

368
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,160
allowed to have good matchups. 
No, that wasn't going through 

369
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:23,400
their head. 
They wouldn't have printed her 

370
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,840
if it if it was, honestly. 
I think it does have a new type 

371
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,280
of deck building tension that we
haven't seen before. 

372
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,480
And I don't know that could be 
very frustrating for a lot of 

373
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:35,680
players. 
Like when you're making your 

374
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,560
sideboard plan, you need to 
think of, OK, I need extra Blues

375
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,240
in case I go up against wizard 
or in case I go up against ice 

376
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,520
heroes. 
I need to have defense reactions

377
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,240
in case I go up against warrior 
or in case I go up against 

378
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,600
assassin And new kind of put in 
a whole nother axis, which is 

379
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:53,000
like I need to be able to take 
out Blues or put in shittier 

380
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,480
Blues in order to make my 
matchup better somehow by 

381
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,760
running worse cards. 
And there are some really 

382
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:01,720
important Blues that you just 
can't play against her 

383
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,680
sometimes. 
And it's I think it's an 

384
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,080
interesting challenge that the 
players ultimately seem to have 

385
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:10,000
hated. 
Yeah. 

386
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:12,480
Lastly, I want to talk about 
Zen. 

387
00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:15,600
Of course, I can't get through 
parts of this deal without 

388
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,960
talking about all three of our 
favorite Mystic heroes. 

389
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,960
Zen returned to the Crouching 
Tiger archetype, which is 

390
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,800
something that we saw played a 
little bit with in Dynasty. 

391
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,440
Crouching Tigers are also a sub 
archetype of combo. 

392
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:33,200
So not only is Zen like the 
second combo centric ninja that 

393
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,240
we've seen, he's the first one 
that specifically focused on the

394
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,880
Crouching Tiger combo cards, 
which is a very flexible type of

395
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,920
combo. 
You know, think Katsu is playing

396
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:44,120
surging Strike into Whelming 
Gust Wave. 

397
00:20:44,120 --> 00:20:47,720
Yeah, these really. 
Narrow into Lord of Wind like 

398
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,120
it's a very linear pattern, 
which admittedly has gotten less

399
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:54,360
linear over the years, but not 
as dynamic as Crouching Tigers, 

400
00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:57,360
where you can do Crouching Tiger
into combo card into another 

401
00:20:57,360 --> 00:20:59,000
Crouching Tiger into another 
crouching. 

402
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,600
Like Chase the Tail wants you to
play Crouching Tiger into Chase 

403
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,440
the Tail into Crouching Tiger, 
and then you can usually line 

404
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,920
that up into something else. 
It felt like the closest thing 

405
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,400
to a real martial art where you 
have different forms of, you 

406
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,760
know, the the same fighting 
style versus like the original. 

407
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:16,120
Welcome to Wraith and Arcane, 
right? 

408
00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:19,400
Or, excuse me, welcome to Wraith
and Crucible of War combo lines 

409
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,680
where it's like head jab, leg 
tap and surging strike and all 

410
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,560
of them are kind of shitty but 
Crouch and Tiger felt complete 

411
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,400
for once. 
And I also love how as a Mystic 

412
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,320
Ninja, he advanced the idea of 
crouching tigers by allowing 

413
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,680
tigers to be created directly 
into hand. 

414
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,480
Technically there were two cards
that created Crouching Tigers in

415
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:42,480
hand before, but Mystic Ninja is
able to do it much easier, which

416
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,240
allows other synergies. 
You know, with cards like 

417
00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:47,600
Enlightened Strike. 
Or gore belching. 

418
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,360
Gore Belching doesn't interact 
with hand though Art of War, but

419
00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:54,320
it lets you put them in deck. 
They have to go in hand before 

420
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,440
they go into deck. 
Art of War What a party pooper 

421
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,840
over here. 
We can't have Art of War in our 

422
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:02,720
Crouching Tiger hand synergy 
deck. 

423
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:04,800
Clark That's that's too. 
That's not allowed anymore. 

424
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,400
We don't talk about Art of War 
with our Crouching Tigers. 

425
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,520
Fine, sorry for bringing it. 
Up. 

426
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,120
That's so 2024, Clark. 
Very unbecoming of you, 

427
00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:18,440
honestly. 
I won't talk about Zen too much 

428
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,680
more because we have done a 
whole episode on Zen in the 

429
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:25,120
past, but he is my favorite miss
fail hero so and I think Joel's 

430
00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:26,000
too. 
Oh yeah. 

431
00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:28,680
So if you want to hear more of 
our thoughts on Zen, you can go 

432
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,040
back and we'll probably put a 
link to our Zen episode in the 

433
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,720
Doobly Doo. 
I think that's about all I 

434
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,320
wanted to say about the 
mechanics of part the miss fail 

435
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,800
and how they advance the design 
of the game. 

436
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:42,960
I think we're going to move on 
to yellow pitch where Clark's 

437
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,560
going to talk about the strength
of part the miss fail and how 

438
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:52,080
why strong question mark. 
Yeah, so people are constantly 

439
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,200
whenever they talk about part 
the miss fail, they go, man, 

440
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,560
part the miss fail was so 
strong. 

441
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:03,560
And then I think was it why? 
Why is it so strong? 

442
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:09,160
And yeah, we can look at certain
things like manifestations of 

443
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,320
Mira Gai and traverse the 
universe and see clear moments 

444
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:17,320
where numbers were just higher 
than they needed to be or could 

445
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,880
have been. 
You know, why is levels of 

446
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,760
enlightenment attacking for 
three? 

447
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:23,840
They could have attacked for 
two. 

448
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,280
Thoughts of acne could have been
0. 

449
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:37,240
Yeah, great, great example. 
But when I look at the when I 

450
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,880
look at the card list of part 
the Miss Vale, I see a bevy of 

451
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:46,640
cards that were never being run.
A lot of the Ms. just don't get 

452
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,360
run in decks. 
A lot of the legendaries are 

453
00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:55,160
fairly underwhelming. 
And so for me, I wanted to dive 

454
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,440
in a little bit more as to why 
do I think Miss Vale was so 

455
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:04,120
powerful and why did it give 
that sense of power outside of 

456
00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:06,480
just explicitly? 
Numbers were big. 

457
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:13,640
And one thing I noted is that 
the decks aren't full of Miss 

458
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:19,680
Veil cards, meaning Enigma, Zen,
and new lists only really ran 

459
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:25,480
about 20 to 30 Miss Veil cards 
in their decks, and most of them

460
00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:30,520
were Blues. 
It wasn't the Reds or even like 

461
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,840
the occasional yellow majestic. 
It was mostly Blues. 

462
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,880
And that's because I think Miss 
Veil did something really, 

463
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,760
really interesting with the 
Mystic talent. 

464
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,160
This is something we didn't get 
to talk about in red pitch, so 

465
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,440
I'm probably gonna throw the mic
to you Fuzzy to talk about this 

466
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,720
at some point. 
But Mystic. 

467
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,240
So a lot of the basic Mystic 
cards are based on this idea 

468
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,200
that they are blue rated cards 
that become Reds. 

469
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,120
When you meet some condition, 
you spend a lot of time talking 

470
00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:02,600
about bonds of agony. 
Yes, that is a blue 0 for one 

471
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,680
attack. 
But if you play your 3 

472
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,440
reactions, it becomes a gains 
plus three. 

473
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,000
That's a 0 for four. 
That's a red. 

474
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:12,360
Why the fuck is a blue coming 
attacking for a red level of 

475
00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:14,160
value? 
That's crazy. 

476
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,880
I think that's a weird example 
because I think the plus 3 is 

477
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,040
meant to be a reward for playing
three attack reactions more so 

478
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:23,800
than a reward for playing a 
blue. 

479
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,160
But we do see that design a lot 
in the comments. 

480
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,480
Like the water drop, the droplet
cycle. 

481
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,800
It's a 0 for two like a normal 
blue, but if you've already 

482
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,080
played a blue, it's a 0 for 
four. 

483
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,040
That's red value. 
Oh. 

484
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:42,760
Yeah, and like Transcending 
asked you to play Blues and 

485
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,760
transcending and getting chi, I 
mean that is the core of all of 

486
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,040
these decks. 
So they are constantly asking 

487
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:57,160
the Mystic decks to play Blues. 
And The thing is that Blues that

488
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:01,320
can convert into red value is 
really fucking good. 

489
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:07,280
And because it subverts this 
basic balancing act of the game,

490
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:12,560
the whole idea is that Reds 
generate bad value because they 

491
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,720
don't let you play higher costed
things and get a lot of value 

492
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,120
that way. 
And Blues, well, they give you 

493
00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:22,400
lots of resources, but they 
don't deal a lot of damage. 

494
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,080
That's the whole point of the 
rainbow system. 

495
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,120
It's why we have the different 
pitches. 

496
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,560
It's so that we can. 
It forces deck builders to say I

497
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,840
don't just get to run the 80 
cards with the biggest number on

498
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,880
them. 
I need to find some balance in 

499
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,640
my deck. 
I totally agree, I think they 

500
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,720
might have gotten a little bit 
overboard on like Blues that 

501
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,600
actually give you good value. 
I think it would be pretty much 

502
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:52,160
fine if like at least the first 
bluway player return is an 

503
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,560
honest to God blue that's giving
me like my one point to value, 

504
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,800
you know, maybe a second point 
if I spend an action point to 

505
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,640
play it, which I'm not going to 
because I wanna play other Blues

506
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,400
on my turn in order to do my 
Mystic stuff, right? 

507
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,920
It's just when you double 
transcend it really breaks 

508
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,920
because when you play a 
transcend card and it flips back

509
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,560
into a resource, that's kind of 
like drawing a card. 

510
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,080
Or you could say it's like I've 
never actually played a card in 

511
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,440
the 1st place. 
Like my 4 card hand is still a 

512
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,640
four card hand. 
But you just got the free value 

513
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,760
from playing whatever that 
Transcend was. 

514
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:26,120
Exactly. 
Yeah. 

515
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,280
This leads to an enhanced 
consistency for the Miss Veiled 

516
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:34,960
Heroes and for Mystic decks, 
because so much more power is 

517
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,760
embedded in the Blues. 
They can run more Blues. 

518
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:43,440
And even when those Blues have 
bad value because of all the 

519
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,320
value that you're getting 
because you're playing Blues, it

520
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,160
all evens out to if you know. 
So let me put this another way. 

521
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,080
When I play a guardian hero and 
I draw 4 Blues in a turn, I get 

522
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,280
to block 3 and throw a. 
That's pretty fucking good. 

523
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,600
That's still only 11 value in a 
turn. 

524
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:04,240
When Zen draws 4 Blues in a 
hand, I get my ass blasted with 

525
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,920
20 plus points of damage. 
What? 

526
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:14,720
What the fuck? 
Now I do want to make a point 

527
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:19,000
here that this was actually fan 
fucking tastic for limited. 

528
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,400
Oh dude. 
Like having Blues that could 

529
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:28,240
actually do shit was so good for
limited and it let mediocre 

530
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,560
decks feel way more powerful, 
way stronger. 

531
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,400
I mean fuzzy made it. 
What was the AGE You made it to 

532
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,640
like top 8 and then you just 
drafted like nothing but blue 

533
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,240
block threes. 
That was like fuzzies fucking 

534
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,960
bombing this. 
It wasn't even in the top eight.

535
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,440
It was the first. 
It was the second pod of the 

536
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,800
day. 
So it was like still in Swiss 

537
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:50,760
and I was really happy with my 
deck. 

538
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,400
But the commentators were like, 
I think Fuzzy thinks this is a 

539
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,960
mediocre deck. 
This is looking like OK, I mean,

540
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:58,600
we have some combo cards, 
whatever. 

541
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,440
I mean I remember in the third 
pack like pretty late you were 

542
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,840
just like oh blue block 3 and 
the commentators are like that's

543
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:11,040
like the 14th 3 fuzzies grab. 
You have like 1 transcend card. 

544
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,960
This deck is garbage. 
They clearly didn't watch his 

545
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,640
kale episode or the Heavy 
Hitters RTN winner. 

546
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,160
Yeah, Blue Block 3 is just 
fucking crazy, man. 

547
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:25,480
It's important to note that I3 
owed that pod and I beat the Zen

548
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,560
player that was directly to my 
right that was taking all the 

549
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,160
Reds. 
Oh my God. 

550
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,560
So it worked for me really well.
And like, I think that's kind of

551
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,920
fucking cool. 
Like I think it was a great 

552
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,720
thing. 
I also think it was great. 

553
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,360
How you could draft all these 
like blue Mystic cards and you'd

554
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,240
still have these great tempo 
plays off of these 3 blue hands.

555
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,440
It made late games more 
interesting by actually being 

556
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,080
able to provide some real damage
and power. 

557
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,800
I just think it did a lot of 
really, really good things. 

558
00:29:54,800 --> 00:30:01,080
So I really appreciated that 
element of Mystic design. 

559
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,760
Part that Mystical Limited is a 
good limited format. 

560
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:09,160
It's a fantastic limited format,
but in terms of classic 

561
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,240
instructor I think it just made 
decks way too consistent and had

562
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,160
too much power in their Blues. 
I kind of feel the same way 

563
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:19,080
about Dromae, because you have a
hero that is rewarded for 

564
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:24,080
playing a single color, namely 
Reds, and you have the downside,

565
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,000
quote UN quote, of needing to 
pitch Reds. 

566
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,360
But then it's mitigated by cards
like Flame Scale Furnace, right?

567
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,000
Or even like Tome of Imperial 
Flame. 

568
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:33,920
Yeah, Tome of Imperial Flame. 
Or just pitching them in 

569
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:35,440
general. 
She gets an ash every time she 

570
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:39,200
does so, yeah. 
Yeah, so it's never really that 

571
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:43,360
punishing. 
Plus the best decks are able to 

572
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:48,040
always convert their Blues into 
good value or just kind of 

573
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,880
ignore having to deal with Blues
in the 1st place either because 

574
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,600
they just went so quickly that 
the few Blues that they see are 

575
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,120
primarily just there to like. 
With Aurora it was Swing sword, 

576
00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:59,560
make an embodiment of lightning,
right? 

577
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:01,800
With Phi it was Swing Ember 
Blade. 

578
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,160
It was like, I don't need that 
many Blues. 

579
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,920
I just can convert fuck tons of 
Reds and then I need to get 

580
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,120
occasional value from a blue in 
hand. 

581
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:15,160
Yeah. 
And then I do think at this 

582
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,040
point I want to note that the 
set was pushed. 

583
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,160
The numbers are just bigger. 
I think Manifestations of Mira 

584
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,760
Gai could have gotten an 
additional plus one counter 

585
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:29,240
instead of doubling it. 
I think you know, I think Chase 

586
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,880
the Tail could have given the 
next tiger +2 instead of +3. 

587
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,040
Whoa, whoa, whoa. 
It was the first ever. 

588
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,400
It was the first Ninja one for 
Seven that was ever printed. 

589
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,920
I also want to. 
Point out that a lot of their 

590
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:48,360
designs were able to abuse 
previously printed cards for me 

591
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:53,440
this is thinking about well 
actually primarily what I'm 

592
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,120
thinking about here is 
illusionist and enigma. 

593
00:31:55,720 --> 00:32:02,000
I think Enigma really abused old
Illusionist cards that never 

594
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:06,080
really made their way into other
decks like Miraging Metamorph 

595
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:10,200
and Phantasmiclasm because she 
just kind of got to 

596
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,400
circumnavigate at the action 
point problem of Illusionist. 

597
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,400
Yeah, she never really had to 
worry about Go again because she

598
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,560
either played the big attack and
resolved in instant speed aura 

599
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,480
or resolved in resolved 
something with plus one counters

600
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,720
on it so that she could attack 
with it and then played the 

601
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,400
Phantasmic Lasm we're Miraging 
Metamor. 

602
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,640
She was always able to convert 
hands very, very aggressively. 

603
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,840
And so I don't know if I love 
that. 

604
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,720
I think that was probably an 
awkward part design that felt 

605
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,440
very Fab 1.5 rather than Fab 
2.0. 

606
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,480
Yeah, they did make this promise
after Dromy LL that illusions 

607
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,240
wasn't gonna be that way. 
And then it just was. 

608
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:51,320
It just looked a little 
different. 

609
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,680
Yeah. 
And to bring it into the modern 

610
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,320
day, I will say Gravy Bones at 
the moment has to work pretty 

611
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:58,760
hard for his extra action 
points. 

612
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,880
Like Limpet is there, but Limpet
is so powerful because Limpet 

613
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,080
says attack with go again on it 
and everyone's going, whoa, 

614
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,160
gotta kill that one as soon as 
possible. 

615
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,640
And it still costs resources. 
Yeah. 

616
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,920
So like, definitely. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

617
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:16,400
Everyone's in agreement with me 
here. 

618
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,200
No one disagrees with me here. 
And if you do, get in the 

619
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,800
comments. 
Or just stop being wrong 

620
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:29,560
question mark. 
OK, last thing we're probably 

621
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,640
going to get you in this pitch 
here is I want to talk about Qi 

622
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,160
and transcending. 
They're so cool. 

623
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:35,840
That's. 
So fucking cool. 

624
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:36,880
Fuzzy. 
Do you want to gush about the? 

625
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:38,760
McCann Love. 
Yeah, Fuzzy. 

626
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,240
Take it away, tell us why Qi is 
so fucking. 

627
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,560
Do you remember when they 
fucking spoiled Chi but we had 

628
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,400
no idea what the fuck it did 
because all they did would just 

629
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,480
show us a picture of like 3 
swirling blue resources and 

630
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,360
we're like what do you think 
this does? 

631
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,800
And everyone was like, I think 
it does, XI think does why? 

632
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,960
I still think I had cool ideas 
for what. 

633
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,560
She could be. 
But ultimately it's these cards 

634
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:07,200
that transform into a resource 
gem, not like literally a gem, 

635
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:08,639
right? 
Like they're not literally gems,

636
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,480
they transform into non block 
resource cards, but it's kind of

637
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,920
OK because those resource cards 
are like bolstered. 

638
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,679
They allow you to use your hero 
ability and as you're the game 

639
00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:22,800
goes on, you're going to 
literally fatigue faster. 

640
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,600
You're going to reach a fatigue 
state sooner than other heroes 

641
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:30,040
because your deck, your mind has
literally transformed into 

642
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,360
Mystic energy. 
I love the design of Qi. 

643
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,960
And Fuzzy, I'm so happy that in 
there you mentioned that they're

644
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,520
like gems, but they're not gems 
because here's my hot take for 

645
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,800
the episode. 
They are gems. 

646
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,520
They're fables. 
Every single transcend card is a

647
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,280
fable because the first time you
play it you get a blue pitch and

648
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:51,960
a fuck ton of extra. 
Value. 

649
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,880
Is that a hot take? 
I feel like it's a hot. 

650
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:56,800
I don't feel like people talk 
about you like that. 

651
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,280
Only the fables. 
The fable. 

652
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,240
No like I feel like these have 
absurdly high-powered. 

653
00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:06,440
I think this is each individual 
chi as an individual card is 

654
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,920
more powerful than riches of 
Trophodoni. 

655
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,040
I agree with that. 
But that's intentional, right? 

656
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:13,840
Like fables are meant to be as 
powerful. 

657
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:19,160
Well, one no. 
Yes, but also no. 

658
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,040
Like that is one of the rarest 
most expensive cards in the 

659
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:24,440
game. 
I think it's intended to have a 

660
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,160
high power level and a high 
impact if you're able to make it

661
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,880
work. 
And like I think these cards are

662
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:36,720
way above it in power level 
because not only do you get 

663
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:39,880
whatever the effect of the 
Transcend card is typically 

664
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:44,840
evaluated somewhere between 1:00
and 2:00 value at instant speed 

665
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:50,520
on a blue card, but also you can
get benefits from transcending 

666
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,040
from playing the blue. 
Now that blue card that you 

667
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,640
played goes to a red rate, so 
you can add that value to the 

668
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:58,640
fact that you played the 
transcend card. 

669
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,080
Admittedly, sometimes not 
always. 

670
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,320
I understand why people wouldn't
consider that fair. 

671
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:08,520
But then you also get the blue 
pitch and pitching Chi can also 

672
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:13,720
give other cards big additional 
value, like the mask of 

673
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:16,400
recurring nightmares or 
manifestations of mirror Guy. 

674
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:22,760
Like a single transcend turn 
playing that transcend card can 

675
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,680
generate once again, red levels 
of value. 

676
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:31,160
And that is wildly powerful in a
way that I'm not sure that I'm 

677
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,120
super comfortable with staying 
in the game. 

678
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:38,360
I guess the question is, is like
maybe cheap pay offs need to get

679
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:42,320
a little bit weaker and we need 
to let those non blocks in your 

680
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,840
deck be legitimate downsides 
because it never felt like a 

681
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:47,440
downside. 
Yeah, yes. 

682
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,000
There were rare instances where 
I was playing against the new 

683
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,640
and the new had a really strong 
early turn where they 

684
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,800
transcended like 2 times and 
they were like ha ha ha, I'm so 

685
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,920
powerful and then I go cool, and
then they draw 2 Qi in their 

686
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,400
hand and I throw 20 damage at 
them and I win the game. 

687
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:08,640
Like that has happened to me 
before but I think it is not 

688
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:13,840
nearly as rare as people or as 
common as perhaps the designers 

689
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:15,840
thought it would be. 
I don't think it ended up being 

690
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,800
a downside, especially when they
printed cosmic awakening as like

691
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,800
Oh my God this perfect anti 
fatigue tool peak. 

692
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,680
I think it's so interesting how 
you mentioned that like if we 

693
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:33,000
ever return to part the missed 
fail, this shadow of design is 

694
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,880
kind of hanging over it as a 
solution that like LSS is going 

695
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,160
to have to solve one day, right?
If they want to print any other 

696
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,960
Mystic hero, they need to either
like ban all of these transcend 

697
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,480
cards because they are kind of 
fundamentally some very strong, 

698
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,960
or like nerf the effects that 
you get from the Chi, which in 

699
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,320
itself would also be kind of a 
feels bad right? 

700
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,760
Yeah, I mean, that would mean 
banning Master recurring 

701
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,200
nightmares, banning banning 
manifestations of Mirror Guy. 

702
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,920
Well, imagine if you made a new 
class in combination with Mystic

703
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,680
that didn't have any of those 
cards and maybe we banned 

704
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,080
Trevors because Trevors is like 
one of those ones to help 

705
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,400
sidestep it, right? 
You would still kind of need a 

706
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:16,280
hero ability, slash Mystic cards
that just aren't as much of A 

707
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:20,360
payoff as you'd want, you know? 
Like the payoff would have to be

708
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,920
not that good, the hero ability 
would have to be mediocre, and 

709
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,080
the the whole power fantasy is 
that our hero ability is extra 

710
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,320
strong because we have to go 
through an extra hoop to get to 

711
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,520
it, right? 
Yeah, but it's not a hard hoop. 

712
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,960
Yeah, that's the problem. 
I'm really interested to see 

713
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,720
what LSS does in the future with
the Mystic talent, which I think

714
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,840
leads into our blue. 
Pitch at the blue pitch. 

715
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,800
Joel. 
Oh me, yeah. 

716
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:46,640
Yeah. 
So for Blue Pitch, I'm going to 

717
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,400
talk about Miss Fail as it 
exists or could exist in the 

718
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,920
future. 
And instead of like coming up 

719
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,360
with specific mechanics, I want 
to talk about each aspect of 

720
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,120
Miss Fail and what should change
to have this part of this set 

721
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,120
come back. 
Like my Co hosts have mentioned,

722
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,520
there's a lot of moving pieces 
to Miss Fail that make it really

723
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,000
powerful. 
And any number of things could 

724
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,840
be, any number of levers could 
be pulled to see which of these 

725
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,800
mechanics come back in the new 
iteration of Missed Fail. 

726
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,440
And the first one I want to talk
about is the unassuming power of

727
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,280
Blues. 
Clark already talked about this 

728
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,480
to great extent so I'm not going
to boil over it too much, but 

729
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:26,640
making heroes care about Blues 
is very dangerous. 

730
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,040
And I want to take a look at 
Gravy Bones because I think he 

731
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:34,160
is actually a success story from
their scaling back of how they 

732
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,840
deal with not only action point 
management with board states, 

733
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:42,280
but also how they use Blues as a
way to make control decks 

734
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:43,440
stronger. 
That's true. 

735
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,880
He literally is a blue matters 
hero and he doesn't even have to

736
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,240
play the Blues right? 
He doesn't even need. 

737
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,840
Not necessarily, but a lot of 
the times you do play the Blues 

738
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:53,720
to get them into. 
Graveyard. 

739
00:39:53,720 --> 00:39:55,960
That is the easiest way to get 
them into graveyard, but they're

740
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,400
not strictly rewarding him for 
playing Blues. 

741
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,440
Everyone runs them, everyone has
Blues that hit the graveyard, 

742
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,040
you know? 
I'm also going to insulate us 

743
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,120
for the future. 
We've had gravy bones for like 2

744
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:11,320
weeks at the time of recording. 
Let's see what happens three 

745
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,280
months from now. 
Because he could be, he's also 

746
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,480
the one hero that's like 
actually put up results from 

747
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,320
this set. 
So like maybe? 

748
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:20,960
Cinder's finally good because he
came out. 

749
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,320
There's no way that he's doing 
anything with her around. 

750
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,040
That's my, that's my take. 
Sure. 

751
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:30,160
While the Missville heroes were 
around, one class that struggled

752
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:34,280
a lot was Arcane Heroes, 
specifically when Vista I got 

753
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,640
his power spike of cards. 
Even Zen, after losing so many 

754
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,120
of or so much of his powerful 
kit, was able to keep up with 

755
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:47,000
him on like a 5050 ratio because
he was able to use his chest 

756
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,440
piece reliably and just make Zen
say tokens then basically fog 

757
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,760
all the arcane damage. 
Enigma would basically eat up 

758
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,720
any wizard because she has Ward 
in addition to lots of AB from 

759
00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:59,960
past illusionist equipment 
suites. 

760
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,960
Yeah, Blue Matters decks are 
insulated against Arcane, 

761
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,400
they're insulated against Ice. 
And then if they're still able 

762
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:11,400
to put out really, really good 
value in early, sorry, they had 

763
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,880
their game plan available in the
late game because they didn't 

764
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:15,520
lose all their Reds in the first
cycle. 

765
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,760
Like there's a lot of just 
general benefits in Flesh and 

766
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:23,520
Blood that come from having blue
as a part of your game plan. 

767
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,440
The concept of what I'm going to
call an outlet versus an engine 

768
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,440
in your hero power. 
I look at the most recent set 

769
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:34,040
High Seas with Gravy and Marlin 
and Puffin and how they 

770
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:38,120
transformed gold to not make it 
the payoff but use it as an 

771
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:39,280
engine. 
Like Gravy. 

772
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,640
Bones is using his hero ability 
and gold to filter his hand, 

773
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,640
discarding the non blocks and 
also getting more resources into

774
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,800
your hands. 
And Marlon obviously is creating

775
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,400
these arrows that synergize with
the rest of her deck and her 

776
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,040
weapon. 
And then Puffin is also looking 

777
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,440
to crank multiple times, 
creating converting gold into 

778
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,320
cogs and drawing cards off of 
larger hands. 

779
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,520
But none of these are things 
that say I'm going to win the 

780
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,040
game or have a massive tempo 
swing if I activate my hero 

781
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,440
ability. 
This wasn't the case with Zen, I

782
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,480
don't think. 
Or any of the Misfield heroes, 

783
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:13,120
right? 
I really like this distinction 

784
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,120
between outlet and engine. 
I feel like Zen putting a 

785
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,360
crouching tag in your hand is 
engine because the crouching 

786
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,800
tiger doesn't do anything. 
You have to run cards in your 

787
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:23,840
deck to make it crouching tiger 
good. 

788
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,000
You have to like be able to 
combo off of it, but being able 

789
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,560
to actually grab the combo cards
with the hero ability means that

790
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:34,640
you can just run combo cards. 
But what you're actually doing 

791
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,400
on your turn is really focused 
on making Transcend happen. 

792
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,640
You transcend in order to feel 
your hero ability, and then your

793
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,840
hero ability kind of takes over 
and gives you the combo cards, 

794
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:45,960
gives you the wind conditions 
really to overpower your 

795
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:50,160
opponent. 
Yeah, I guess I kind of want to.

796
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,720
It made a lot of sense when you 
first said it, Joel, but I kind 

797
00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:57,760
of want to lean on what is the 
difference between an engine and

798
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:02,120
an outlet when often times they 
are doing the same thing of 

799
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,760
paying off by having the thing. 
Yeah. 

800
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:07,400
Well, you faced it earlier. 
Sorry. 

801
00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:09,480
Cutting you off, Joel, for your 
own words, but. 

802
00:43:09,720 --> 00:43:11,760
I mean, sometimes you hear it 
two different ways from two 

803
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,000
different people. 
Like if your hero ability is 

804
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,880
winning the game, that's 
different than if your hero 

805
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,760
ability is helping your cards do
what they are supposed to do. 

806
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,240
Like when Gravy Bones loots, 
he's not actually playing 

807
00:43:25,240 --> 00:43:27,400
allies, he's getting allies 
ready to be played. 

808
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:28,880
It's a little different, right? 
Right. 

809
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:33,200
And I think Zen's. 
So we want to move chi from 

810
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:38,200
being the outlet to the engine. 
Yes. 

811
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,440
I think one of the biggest 
issues with Zen's design is that

812
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,920
everything was baked into his 
hero ability and the cards I 

813
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:49,040
cared about being paid for with 
Chi like Schwum, the mascot of 

814
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:52,240
our podcast, it was extremely 
bad. 

815
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:54,320
Shifting Wind to the Mystic. 
Beast, Yeah. 

816
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:55,240
Shifting, Yeah. 
Thank you. 

817
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,760
The Mask of recurring nightmares
is kind of like it's a control 

818
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,480
tool, so it's hard to say that 
it's a wind condition, but it 

819
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:03,600
feels like an outlet more than 
an engine. 

820
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,480
You know, I can just fuel into 
my mask and I don't have to 

821
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,160
worry about what my other things
do. 

822
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,080
Like that's always on board. 
It's always an option for me. 

823
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,760
And by activating it I am 
getting closer to my wind 

824
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:16,400
condition. 
What about Enigma then, with 

825
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,440
Manifestations of Mirror Guy? 
Because in this instance, that 

826
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:23,200
card feels miserable to play. 
Yeah, Gee, yeah, absolutely. 

827
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,680
And I'm glad you brought up both
those examples, because I. 

828
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,920
I think they're both, you know, 
part of the problem. 

829
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,520
Massacre Recurring Nightmare is 
very strong because when you 

830
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:34,640
didn't have a hero power, you 
had Massacre Recurring 

831
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:38,360
Nightmares. 
And that means that meant no 

832
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,800
matter what, you always had an 
outlet for your chi and ripping 

833
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:43,920
a car from your opponent's hand 
has it. 

834
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:45,600
It's really hard to calculate 
that value. 

835
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,560
The baseline is 3, of course, 
but when you're a deck that also

836
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:50,920
disrupts from hand, that's just 
too much. 

837
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:52,960
Yeah, we did a whole episode 
about that. 

838
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,800
We sure did. 
And with Enigma using 

839
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,200
mismanifestation of Moraga, 
we've said it multiple times 

840
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:01,200
just this episode that card is 
widely overtuned. 

841
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,960
Yeah. 
But it was the mechanic that 

842
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,640
you're more looking for chi to 
lean on. 

843
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:11,760
You're looking for Chi to 
augment the other cards, the 

844
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:15,440
other strategies. 
You want transcending to be a 

845
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,320
big tempo play, something that 
you need to. 

846
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,960
Hold onto a lot of cards to be 
able to pull off exactly. 

847
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,880
So to kind of pull it all 
together, I think Chi is a very 

848
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,360
interesting mechanic, but to be 
reeled in truly, I don't think 

849
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,080
any of it can start in the 
equipment zone. 

850
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:29,480
So a lot of stuff needs to get 
banned. 

851
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,760
Goodbye Transcend. 
Goodbye Traverse. 

852
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:33,480
Goodbye traverse. 
Goodbye mask. 

853
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,600
The art's so fucking. 
You can have the mat. 

854
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,200
I bought, I bought, I bought the
cold foil extended. 

855
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,000
Me too buddy, me too. 
It's set in my binder right now.

856
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:45,480
I think all that needs to be 
banned and I think the dev team 

857
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,960
needs to take a really hard look
at the cards that are being 

858
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:52,560
played from the Chi. 
That way you're keeping four or 

859
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,400
five card hands to really have 
the same tempo swings that you 

860
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:59,160
did with OG part the Mis fail 
and they're flavorful. 

861
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:01,880
They're not just like overtuned 
back breaking cards. 

862
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:05,600
The last thing I wanted to gloss
over is obviously with each of 

863
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,040
these heroes leaving the format,
we need to think about who's 

864
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:10,920
coming back to replace these 
heroes, whether it's in the same

865
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,520
combination or future heroes. 
For this example, I'm only going

866
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:18,480
to do possible replacements and 
what happens or what I think 

867
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:22,720
should happen for each class in 
order to improve upon the 

868
00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:26,520
design, rather than just, you 
know, making the second prism or

869
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:27,320
whatever. 
I'm. 

870
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:30,520
So excited. 
And because of the lack of lore 

871
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,840
implications, it's kind of hard 
to insert who I think should 

872
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,240
replace each of these heroes. 
Like I don't have any names in 

873
00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:37,560
mind. 
Mystic IRA. 

874
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,840
Yeah, I was thinking about IRA 
as well. 

875
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,880
But the first thing that comes 
to mind for a Zen replacement is

876
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,080
obviously Benji. 
They they did talk about it, I 

877
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:51,240
think briefly that Benji was 
supposed to be the first Mystic 

878
00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:55,640
Ninja, but with the way that his
design space existed at that 

879
00:46:55,640 --> 00:47:01,160
time, it was like your cards 
that are two or lower base power

880
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,960
are unblockable with cards from 
hand and then they were. 

881
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,600
Probably going to try to like 
make the crouching tigers 

882
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:10,200
unblockable or play on that 
unblockable right by 1000 cuts 

883
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,240
kind of design. 
Right, which sounds it's like. 

884
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,440
Hey, let him cook more. 
Maybe all this extra time let 

885
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:17,920
him cook. 
More that that's exactly what I 

886
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:21,360
was thinking too because that as
a baseline does not sound fun to

887
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,400
play against. 
But I think they did an 

888
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:27,440
excellent job converting to size
ability which is also another 

889
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:31,000
Crucible of war blitz only hero 
to CCI. 

890
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:32,960
Think they can do a similar 
thing with Benji. 

891
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:34,600
I don't know if it's going to be
with crouching tigers though. 

892
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,280
What do you guys think based on 
what you know about Benji I? 

893
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:41,240
Think missing ninja is defined 
by the crouching tigers going to

894
00:47:41,240 --> 00:47:42,920
hand. 
I think they got to keep in that

895
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,520
design space. 
I think a big pivot off would be

896
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:48,880
awkward, but it's not like they 
haven't done that with other 

897
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:50,480
classes and talents. 
Yeah. 

898
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:54,320
I mean, Lightning got a complete
revamp of being instant based, 

899
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:55,240
you know? 
Yeah, yeah. 

900
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,720
That's true, I feel like it'd be
pretty fair if it was like pitch

901
00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:02,080
a cheek cuz it cut like pay 3 
Mystic resources. 

902
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:06,000
All your crouching tigers are 
unblockable this turn with cards

903
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,520
from hand and then they can put 
a crouching tiger in your hand. 

904
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:10,240
He can try to like buff them. 
I don't know. 

905
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:13,000
I feel like it's way too easy to
buff a crouching tiger though. 

906
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,240
You have to have cards for it. 
If you're spending an entire 

907
00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:18,840
card just for evasion, no tutor,
just evasion, I think that can 

908
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:20,880
be pretty balanced. 
But then I nimble ISM and then I

909
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,480
come in for three unblockable. 
That's a 2 card 3. 

910
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:26,800
That's yeah, you. 
Scared of A2? 

911
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:32,040
You scared of a 2? 
But what Fuzzies pitching is 

912
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:35,880
also in line with what I was 
suggesting is that she needs to 

913
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:41,720
have a good engine, but the 
output needs to require more 

914
00:48:41,720 --> 00:48:43,840
cards. 
Like if I'm playing nimbleism 

915
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:46,080
and pitching a cheat to make my 
cards unblockable, that's two 

916
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:50,120
cards and I haven't even, you 
know, use any combo cards. 

917
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:54,240
Maybe if he had a passive that 
said something along the lines 

918
00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:58,320
of like when a crouching tiger 
hits your combo cards game plus 

919
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,760
one. 
So you both have to find a way 

920
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,400
of like buffing the crouching 
tiger and then playing something

921
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,720
that after the crouching tiger 
one of the combo cards. 

922
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:09,120
That seems interesting to me. 
I don't know. 

923
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:11,240
Assuming I don't know. 
I mean. 

924
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:13,880
It can see me rolling my eyes 
just a little bit. 

925
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:17,400
What I. 
What I what I want to look at is

926
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:21,240
probably the most balanced piece
of equipment that came out of 

927
00:49:21,240 --> 00:49:24,600
part of the Misfield, which was 
Meridian pathway, which said 

928
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:28,560
when you pitch a cheat, you may 
have this card game Ward 3. 

929
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:32,800
So Meridian Pathway is a passive
that you always have access to, 

930
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:36,240
which I think could actually be 
expanded to like the Mystic 

931
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,800
ninja and assassin classes 
because it's still probably a 

932
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,520
powerful effect, especially if 
it has something to do with you 

933
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,240
can't block crouching tigers or 
you buff your combo cards in 

934
00:49:45,240 --> 00:49:48,280
some way and it's destroyed 
after use. 

935
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,440
Another aspect about Mystic 
Ninja that I really liked was 

936
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:56,560
the defense that you had. 
I've heard a lot of complaints 

937
00:49:56,560 --> 00:50:00,240
when Zen was like the top dog, 
how he had too much armor when 

938
00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:02,600
he was like the offensive top 
dog. 

939
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:06,720
But when he was toned down on 
his offensive, he had a lot of 

940
00:50:06,720 --> 00:50:09,640
defensive tools that players had
to lean in and it made him like 

941
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:12,520
basically the perfect mid range 
ninja, no offense to IRA 

942
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:15,080
players. 
And so if he were to come back, 

943
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:20,040
that's also something else I'd 
like to see because we know what

944
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:23,040
Transcend can do when you are 
good at offense. 

945
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:24,000
We don't need to see that 
anymore. 

946
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,320
I think the defense on an 
offensive class could be an 

947
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:30,360
interesting spin. 
I mean it, it's also pretty 

948
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,400
flavorful one, right? 
The monk who finds inner peace 

949
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,080
is not going to use that inner 
peace to bash your head in. 

950
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:38,760
He's going to use that inner 
peace to protect. 

951
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,840
Himself Exactly. 
Yeah, I think it's a really cool

952
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,960
sunset of the of the design. 
Moving on to Enigma, we already 

953
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,160
talked about how she can 
basically use all of her action 

954
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:52,200
points at her will. 
And I think we've already 

955
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,240
commented on Enigma's cost 
curve. 

956
00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:57,640
And so if the next Mystic 
Illusions were to come back, I 

957
00:50:57,640 --> 00:50:59,600
think it should. 
Or a much higher cost curve. 

958
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:01,240
Sure, they got the Blues. 
They can afford it. 

959
00:51:01,240 --> 00:51:06,000
Exactly, like why didn't they 
just have manifestation in 

960
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:07,520
Baraga? 
I'd be the baseline where it's 

961
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:11,520
threes, fours and fives to pay 
for your big boards and then 

962
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:13,480
just not give them go again. 
Like just have them be really 

963
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:16,200
big. 
This would also really reward 

964
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,960
the enigma for letting the 
opponent clear their ward a 

965
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,160
little bit more rather than 
fighting to hold on to it. 

966
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:25,800
When you have a lot of small 
amounts of ward, you can control

967
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:27,720
breakpoints a lot more 
comfortably, right? 

968
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,640
When you have bigger sources of 
ward and you're like well I 

969
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:35,040
could full block and then take 
one and lose my ward 6 so I 

970
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,800
guess I won't block that much. 
Right. 

971
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:42,320
Just block 6 with my ward. 
I mean, yes, but at the end of 

972
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:43,560
the day. 
You had to pay for it. 

973
00:51:43,720 --> 00:51:46,160
It's still fair, yeah. 
But what if that 044 with go 

974
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:49,160
again comes in and like is 
coming in for one over now 

975
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:52,160
you're maybe losing a little bit
of that value and like the 

976
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:55,240
opponent got one up on you and 
maybe that's OK. 

977
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:57,640
I think that rewards good 
control players. 

978
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:01,000
I don't think that powerful 
mechanic should be easy to use 

979
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:02,960
like that. 
They said Enigma was going to be

980
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:05,840
the hardest to use because 
you're managing all these 

981
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:09,800
smaller break points with your 
ward and your bigger wards, but 

982
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:13,080
it just didn't line up that way.
So if an equal were to come 

983
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,400
back, I think I'd like to see 
bigger cost curves, less 

984
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,360
reaction, less reaction points. 
Yeah, thank you. 

985
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:20,920
Yeah, the. 
Instance wasn't as much of A 

986
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:22,760
downside as I think they thought
it was. 

987
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,160
Yeah, they need to temper a lot 
more with their supposed 

988
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,600
downsides on some of these. 
Classes, I think they think non 

989
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,920
blocks are like really, really 
hard because when everything 

990
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:35,520
blocks three, that's really, 
really powerful, but when 

991
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:37,800
they're incense, you can also 
just kind of do whatever the 

992
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:38,800
fuck you want with. 
Them. 

993
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,760
Yeah, like that's the best card 
in the game, Yeah. 

994
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,320
I mean, throwing a weakest link 
and ripping A transcend card, 

995
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:47,160
Good counter play. 
Yeah, I I was appreciative about

996
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:49,240
that. 
Everything else but. 

997
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,640
Yeah next I want to move on to 
new, which I think a lot of 

998
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:56,160
people want to see change if it 
were to ever come back because 

999
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:59,520
of how it polarized the guardian
match up and how it just 

1000
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:02,320
basically feasted on every mid 
range deck that existed. 

1001
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,040
You need to ban the mask, you 
know, not because I hated the 

1002
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:09,080
card, I do, but I think going 
along with the tenant that these

1003
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:13,880
car, these heroes need transcend
engines, not outlets. 

1004
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:18,080
This is like probably one of the
most powerful outputs or yeah, 

1005
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:20,880
one of the most powerful outlets
that you have access to as a 

1006
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,200
Mystic assassin. 
You want to? 

1007
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:26,120
I think would be interesting. 
What do you think would be 

1008
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:29,520
interesting? 
Getting cards of the same names 

1009
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:32,840
into the banish zone and then 
being able to do something off 

1010
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:33,560
of that. 
Yeah. 

1011
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:37,480
Like if you get 3 let's this is 
going to sound crazy. 

1012
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:42,000
Let's say you can get like 3 
crippling crushes into banish. 

1013
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:47,040
You can flip two of them face 
down to play the third one. 

1014
00:53:47,720 --> 00:53:50,440
That seems balanced to me. 
Maybe not for free but like 

1015
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:54,880
really being like if bonds can 
hit and I can get 3 cards of the

1016
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,080
same name. 
Or like I can punish decks that 

1017
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:04,200
run a bunch of multiples of the 
exact same card and just having 

1018
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,440
to work a little bit harder to 
get those cards into banish. 

1019
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:10,600
Yeah, and that does the IT 
provides that entirely new deck 

1020
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,640
building tension that I kind of 
liked about new, where now 

1021
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:16,360
instead of thinking, hey, I have
to be careful what Blues I run, 

1022
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:18,840
now you have to think, I have to
be careful what place sets I. 

1023
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:22,040
Run. 
It doesn't tackle something as 

1024
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:26,600
fundamental right as Blues. 
Although I would say running 

1025
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:28,920
play sets of things is really 
fundamental. 

1026
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:32,240
Sure, but it doesn't come in 
until the late late game and in 

1027
00:54:32,240 --> 00:54:33,840
my mind you would still have to 
pitch to play. 

1028
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:36,080
You don't get to fucking play a 
crippling crush for free, sure 

1029
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,800
just because you got 3IN. 
Damage yeah and also I the 

1030
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:42,600
playing for free was with this 
design in mind you also have the

1031
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,160
agency to block with one and 
then if you banish the other 

1032
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:48,440
two, the new player still needs 
to banish the third to get the 

1033
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,960
effect which. 
Does reward her specialization? 

1034
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:56,400
I mean specialization. 
But the Mystic assassin 

1035
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:59,440
transcend card right? 
Wants to banish cards out of 

1036
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:01,960
graveyard. 
So like giving a fucking reason 

1037
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,400
for that to be a powerful effect
is still good. 

1038
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:06,720
I can see LSS printing in effect
like that, yeah. 

1039
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,960
Yeah cuz then it just requires 
them to keep more cards and use 

1040
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:14,120
their chi instead of just like 
pitching 1 and you have access 

1041
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,000
to every blue in their deck. 
That doesn't make sense. 

1042
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:19,040
And any amount of them. 
Too right, you can play all of 

1043
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:22,360
the Blues. 
No, like this is once you get to

1044
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:26,440
take one card, it can be a red, 
but like, yeah. 

1045
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:29,160
And I still love that idea. 
Like we're going into the new 

1046
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:31,760
matchup, I'm going to have to 
flip through my deck and see if 

1047
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:33,120
there's any cards I need to take
out. 

1048
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:35,520
And the answer would be like, I 
take out one levels of 

1049
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:38,240
enlightenment, you know? 
That could be so interesting. 

1050
00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:40,280
Yeah. 
Just take, I'm going to take out

1051
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:44,840
my Blood a Blood Rush Fellow and
put in some random yellow 6 

1052
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:47,440
because I think it's more 
important to restrict the 

1053
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:49,320
ability for her to. 
I mean, actually Blood Rush 

1054
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:52,240
Fellow is a horrible card for 
her to play, but the idea is 

1055
00:55:52,240 --> 00:55:52,640
there. 
Yeah. 

1056
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:54,040
Yeah. 
One swing big, Yeah. 

1057
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:58,240
Yeah. 
I think also one of the biggest 

1058
00:55:58,240 --> 00:56:01,600
gripes about people or that 
people had about new design is 

1059
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:05,840
that she had the best assassin 
attack reactions in the game. 

1060
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:10,640
Hiss and Venice fight don't say 
Mystic or blue or anything like 

1061
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:12,880
that. 
They just say or stealth or 

1062
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:15,240
contract. 
Yeah, they they could use it on 

1063
00:56:15,240 --> 00:56:18,840
any, any attack. 
And well, Fang strike was 

1064
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:22,320
playable on any attack, the 
other one had to be played on an

1065
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:26,760
assassin attack action card, but
it was not keyword or Mystic or 

1066
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:28,040
Mystic. 
Yeah that is also true. 

1067
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:29,480
Actually. 
That was crazy. 

1068
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:31,480
Why the fuck are they playing on
Mystic attacks? 

1069
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:35,120
Yeah, but you see what I mean? 
Like there's no other stealth 

1070
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:39,120
cards that exist in the 
Untalented or Shadow Assassins 

1071
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:42,200
that are unrestrictive like 
that. 

1072
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:45,320
Like they can't react onto the 
contracts the same way that they

1073
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:47,800
can do on the self cars that 
they've released with. 

1074
00:56:48,240 --> 00:56:54,880
And if this assassin talent 
combo type comes back, I don't 

1075
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:56,520
think they can have anything 
like that ever again. 

1076
00:56:56,520 --> 00:57:00,560
Or maybe a ban because that lack
of deck building tension Just 

1077
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:04,320
let them be the best assassin. 
Similar to how like Starville or

1078
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:08,080
Oldham just dwarfed the other 
guardians at the time because 

1079
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:10,600
there's no reason for you to be 
playing them. 

1080
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:13,360
They don't have any value 
proposition greater than being 

1081
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:16,240
able to react on any assassin 
attack action. 

1082
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:18,480
Yeah. 
Why do the best contract attacks

1083
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,840
get to go to 8? 
Because you had a venomous bite 

1084
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:24,600
in hand, right. 
And, and OG Arachne can get it 

1085
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,240
to maybe seven. 
Yeah, on a good day. 

1086
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:31,720
But yeah, that's that's sort of 
my two cents around the three 

1087
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:33,920
heroes, what I think should 
happen if they were to come 

1088
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:37,480
back. 
So to summarize, it's Zen. 

1089
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:41,200
Let's see a little bit more 
defense and not just the free 

1090
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:44,440
tutor. 
Definitely do more of an engine.

1091
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:47,200
Idea, yeah, there an enigma I 
would say. 

1092
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:51,320
Needs much higher cost curve, 
much bigger wards and a lot less

1093
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:53,720
action points. 
Which could be interesting. 

1094
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:56,040
Make her like a guardian Y 
illusionist right? 

1095
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:58,720
Big heavy hits, big heavy word 
amounts. 

1096
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:03,200
Yay. 
And then with new IT is 

1097
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:06,920
depolarizer hero ability. 
Make it a little bit more 

1098
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:12,320
general, but then that opens up 
a lot more design space for her 

1099
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:15,080
to feel a little bit more fair. 
Yeah, exactly. 

1100
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:18,160
You you put it beautifully. 
But with that being said, I 

1101
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:20,120
think I'm done with my pitch. 
I think we should go to our 

1102
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:21,200
Arsenal zone now. 
The. 

1103
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:23,920
Arsenal zone. 
I love the the Arsenal Zone. 

1104
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:25,840
The Arsenal Zone's a part of our
podcast where we're talking 

1105
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:29,280
about cards that we love, cards 
that we hate, cards that we love

1106
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:33,080
to hate, or cards that just kind
of are there in our chaff pile, 

1107
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:36,160
and you're organizing the boxes 
that you pulled. 

1108
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:37,640
Like, oh man, you're calling me 
out? 

1109
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:45,400
Months ago and you're just like 
wait, I love this card those. 

1110
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:51,440
We also like to shout out a card
from a Patreon subscriber to get

1111
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:56,200
our Patreon subscribers into the
show, and today we have randomly

1112
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:59,240
selected Whippy. 
Whippy. 

1113
00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:02,560
Thank you Whippy the. 
Hottest meme creator in all the 

1114
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:04,560
flesh and blood. 
Yeah, if you haven't seen their 

1115
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:06,080
channel already, go check it 
out. 

1116
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:09,680
They've also been a long time 
fan of ours, a die hard drip 

1117
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:11,920
type fan. 
We're a big fan of Whippy over 

1118
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:16,840
here and he's been consistently,
you know, submitting these cards

1119
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:20,200
for us to talk about on the 
Arsenal Zone and for today he's 

1120
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:23,360
talking about Olympia and what 
we have this to say about 

1121
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:25,480
Olympia. 
Well, hold on, can we what? 

1122
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:29,240
What's who's Olympia? 
And Olympia says the first time 

1123
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:31,800
that any of your attacks would 
win a wager, create a gold 

1124
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:35,880
token. 
And he had this to say about 

1125
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:39,320
Olympia. 
Literally all I've been thinking

1126
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:43,320
about is Olympia since the 
interview with Brian Go stating 

1127
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:46,000
that him and Betsy were meant to
be limited only and they 

1128
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:48,840
expanded them into adult heroes 
because quote UN quote. 

1129
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:51,080
Why not? 
It makes so much more sense for 

1130
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:53,840
them to exist the way they are 
where they both care about the 

1131
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:57,040
wager mechanic but it has like 0
support outside of limited and 

1132
00:59:57,040 --> 00:59:58,720
specs. 
I've been theory crafting 

1133
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:00,960
Olympia decks all this week, but
every time I put something 

1134
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:03,440
together I'm just like there's 
another warrior I could be 

1135
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:06,240
playing right now who would make
this package work and actually 

1136
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:08,880
has a payoff. 
Without further support, this 

1137
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:11,480
hero is literally in a position 
of why the hell do you even 

1138
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:14,400
exist. 
Quote if you need a specific 

1139
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:17,520
card, not a hero. 
Up the Ante is a hell of a card 

1140
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:20,000
and the only thing that keeps me
coming back to Olympia Deck 

1141
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:21,800
building. 
And that's a great show. 

1142
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:25,680
I think it was a very shocking 
comment to be made and I'm sure 

1143
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:28,560
Brian Go regrets it as soon as 
he said it because you know, 

1144
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:31,840
flesh and ball. 
I am sure the people online are 

1145
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:35,840
over. 
Dramatizing his casual nature of

1146
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:37,800
how he said it, Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1147
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:42,920
I doubt he was like and yeah, 
fuck it, people will be fans of 

1148
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:44,920
this hero and we don't care 
about those people. 

1149
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:47,240
That's sort of how it sounded 
like in the interview, but 

1150
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:49,200
definitely not what he meant. 
I agree. 

1151
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:51,680
I agree 100%. 
I think a lot of people are 

1152
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:55,080
justifiably upset because we've 
been asking for a long time for 

1153
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:57,400
support for these heroes, but 
now that you have the closure 

1154
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:00,720
that this hero was never 
intended to be CC playable, I 

1155
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:03,640
don't think it should be. 
Like, it should all just make 

1156
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:05,080
sense. 
It shouldn't make you like, you 

1157
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:08,840
know, go at Brian go or the LSS 
team with pitchforks and and 

1158
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:11,040
torches or whatever. 
I don't know, they printed a 

1159
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:14,560
expansion slot card for Olympia 
soon after Heavy hitters, the 

1160
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:17,760
one where it lets you like equip
stuff from your inventory. 

1161
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:23,160
So these heroes are somewhere in
their minds, you know, and 

1162
01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:25,640
hearts. 
So I don't think it's super out 

1163
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,040
of the question for us to see 
some support for these heroes in

1164
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:30,720
the future. 
I think we're going to have to 

1165
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,320
wait for Wager to come back for 
these heroes to see another 

1166
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:35,960
resurgence. 
And if they update Wager or try 

1167
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:38,680
to make it more interesting in 
some other way, if they just 

1168
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:42,280
don't return to Wager ever, then
yeah, I think these heroes are 

1169
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:44,440
going to wallow in infamy. 
For sure. 

1170
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:47,200
So thank you so much Whoopi for 
the suggestion. 

1171
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,640
We don't often get straight up 
here suggestions, but they're 

1172
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:52,600
always interesting to talk 
about, especially when they're 

1173
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:54,640
when they have relevant 
discussions around them. 

1174
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:58,120
And if you didn't hear your card
shouted out, don't worry, keep 

1175
01:01:58,120 --> 01:01:59,960
submitting. 
We do keep a Bank of everything 

1176
01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:02,720
you've submitted up until now, 
and we'll get to it at some 

1177
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:05,720
point. 
Yeah, I'm going to jump in here 

1178
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:09,040
and start our section of the 
Arsenal zone and I want to talk 

1179
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:12,960
about solid ground. 
Solid Ground is not a card that 

1180
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:18,000
is out yet, but it is a pretty 
interesting card. 

1181
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:22,120
Solid Ground is continuing a 
trend of design that I've 

1182
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:23,600
noticed. 
I was thinking about this while 

1183
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:26,920
looking through the Miss Veil 
cards where it is a blue 3 cost 

1184
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:31,320
5 block defense reaction. 
Now all of the cards so far that

1185
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:34,960
have followed this pattern have 
needed some payoff to get that 

1186
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:38,120
kind of ability. 
So for Solid Ground, it costs 

1187
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:41,080
one less to play for each 
seismic surge you control. 

1188
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:45,360
The other one is Territorial 
Domain, which only blocks for 

1189
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:47,680
two, but gets +3 if you've made 
a Crouching Tiger. 

1190
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:52,520
That can Love that card dude. 
Yeah, and then there's also a 

1191
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:56,440
Mystic one that if you pitch a 
Chi to play it, you get to draw 

1192
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:57,520
a card. 
Unravel. 

1193
01:02:57,520 --> 01:02:59,320
Aggression. 
Unravel aggression, Yeah. 

1194
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:03,120
So all of these are essentially 
one card 5 blocks provided you 

1195
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:05,760
do some other hoop. 
I think it's an interesting 

1196
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:07,760
design space. 
I think solid ground is the most

1197
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:09,880
playable one by far. 
Absolutely. 

1198
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:13,720
And we to spend a lot of time 
talking today about blue matters

1199
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:15,960
and how interesting that is and 
how consistent they can make a 

1200
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:18,360
deck. 
What if they make Guardian 

1201
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:22,600
really strong with good Blues? 
Finally maybe? 

1202
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:24,640
I'd love to see it. 
They're the first class to make 

1203
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:27,680
it sexy to care about Blues. 
First class to care about Blues.

1204
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:31,360
So I would love to see it, baby.
I'd love to see, and I think 

1205
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:36,000
Solid Ground is the most 
playable version of this set of 

1206
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:38,800
design, so yeah. 
It's pretty cool. 

1207
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:41,000
Joel, what about you? 
What card do you have for us? 

1208
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:43,320
So the card on my mind this 
evening is levels of 

1209
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:45,400
enlightenment. 
It's one of my favorite Mystic 

1210
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:49,440
cards and I think it represents 
so much of part the MIS fail. 

1211
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:52,520
I like the modality of it and 
I'll explain the card to you 

1212
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:55,400
before I continue. 
Levels of enlightenment is a 

1213
01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:59,640
blue three block 1 cost three 
base power that says when this 

1214
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:02,040
attacks, choose one for each 
blue card you've pitched this 

1215
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:06,760
turn and you pick one of three, 
which is or one of three draw a 

1216
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:09,080
card. 
This gets +2 or this gets go 

1217
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:14,040
again. 
And I loved the playing with the

1218
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:17,680
instances and your hero ability 
being able to get multiple cards

1219
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:20,040
in the pitch zone before this 
card resolves. 

1220
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:24,280
I loved the high row potential 
of having three Blues when 

1221
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:26,480
you're playing with Zen, like 
with your sacred art. 

1222
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:30,120
I love that this card as a 
baseline is like A2 card 7. 

1223
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:32,960
The fact that it also comes in 
extended art is pretty cool too.

1224
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:36,360
I loved top decking levels of 
enlightenment off of the levels 

1225
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:38,680
of enlightenment. 
And you just roll it back, baby.

1226
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:41,080
Yeah. 
And it was such a unique. 

1227
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:43,160
Oh, my God. 
And this is the car that helped 

1228
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:47,360
me win my my RTN most recently 
because I was able to. 

1229
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:51,800
Well, I won't get into the line,
but I use this card to basically

1230
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:54,040
lock a win against a very hard 
matchup. 

1231
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:56,520
And yeah, it's just a car that's
near and near to my. 

1232
01:04:56,760 --> 01:05:02,080
Heart the OG high tide, get 2 
Blues for strong effect. 

1233
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:06,120
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. 
This this card should have been 

1234
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:09,480
two power but you know what 
y'all can have your fun. 

1235
01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:12,880
Yeah, I'm excited to play this 
card again sometime soon. 

1236
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:17,280
Yeah, Yeah, that's my card. 
Fuzzy, you got a card. 

1237
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:25,240
My card for today is Whelming 
gust way because they printed 

1238
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:29,600
they spoiled some ninja cards 
lately like I said in turn 0. 

1239
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:32,520
The card that they spoiled today
is called O'Connor Scar Wraps 

1240
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:35,200
and it's kind of like breaking 
scales. 

1241
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:39,040
Breaking scales was already this
nice common that Katsu players 

1242
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:43,040
were playing because it gave one
of your combo cards plus one at 

1243
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:45,840
one point during the game. 
So until I use my breaking 

1244
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:49,120
scales, you have to respect 
every whelming gust wave that I 

1245
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:52,240
play because that on hit draw 
card is a little bit harder to 

1246
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:54,640
block if I can just give it plus
one whenever I want to. 

1247
01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:58,600
What's whelming gust wave? 
Whelming gust wave is a 0 cost 3

1248
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:02,000
block that comes in red yellow, 
blue with three two and one 

1249
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:04,640
power respectively and it says 
combo. 

1250
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:07,400
If Surging Strike was the last 
attack this combat chain 

1251
01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:12,440
Whelming Gust Wave gains plus 
one go again and and if this 

1252
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:15,000
hits draw card. 
Wait, that's like levels of 

1253
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:18,680
enlightenment. 
It it's one under rate and it 

1254
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:21,800
goes to like one over rate and 
on hit. 

1255
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:24,040
Draw it becomes snatch. 
Go again. 

1256
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:28,000
Oh, that's true. 
Favorite card Snatch 2. 

1257
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:33,280
And it's a three block baby. 
Oh my God, even. 

1258
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:36,240
Better than Snatch 2? 
So Whelming Gust Wave is like 

1259
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:38,840
one of the like best cards that 
Katsu's had for the longest 

1260
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:42,040
time. 
O'Connor's Scar Wraps is so good

1261
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:45,440
with Whelming Gust Wave that it 
gives us like a reason why we 

1262
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:47,440
might want to ditch the 
Kodachi's and start running. 

1263
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:51,640
Edge of Bottom baby Spanish Edge
of Bottom to give Whelming Gust 

1264
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:54,560
Wave plus one multiple times per
game. 

1265
01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:56,240
Hello. 
Shit. 

1266
01:06:56,920 --> 01:06:59,800
So yeah, I'm going to be really 
annoying at armories now. 

1267
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:04,120
Or, as Clark claims, continue to
be annoying armories. 

1268
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:07,680
Yeah, you play fucking Katsu. 
Yeah, for those. 

1269
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:10,640
I run into your ass and I'm 
like, oh God, I have to block. 

1270
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:15,000
You got to over block by two 
because I got the O'Connor scar 

1271
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:17,320
wraps and the ancestral 
empowerment. 

1272
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:21,360
I already had to play around 
your fucking 3 pumps back during

1273
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:25,280
fucking having a heavy meta. 
So I've actually have a copy of 

1274
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:28,280
Wilming Gustrape that I brought 
to sign and give to each of you 

1275
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:31,000
hosts. 
And I I brought the red 1, you 

1276
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:32,960
know. 
The good one. 

1277
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:37,240
One for you and one for you. 
Thank you, Fuzzy. 

1278
01:07:39,240 --> 01:07:42,040
So go ahead and drop in the 
comments and let us know your 

1279
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:44,480
thoughts on part the missed fail
and what you liked about it. 

1280
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:47,640
And what you'd like to see, and 
it's immediately going to get 

1281
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:50,120
outdated because Alsace is going
to reveal whatever the fuck 

1282
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:53,640
suspenses and everyone's going 
to want to know our opinions on 

1283
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:54,520
it. 
It's like, why are they talking 

1284
01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:57,240
about Miss Veil? 
Yeah, don't worry, we will get 

1285
01:07:57,240 --> 01:08:01,240
to it a week late. 
I swear it's a new set. 

1286
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:06,320
All right, well, be sure to join
a Discord for the spoiler season

1287
01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:08,240
coming up, because we're the 
only place where you can get 

1288
01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:11,440
spoilers. 
And be sure to join the Patreon 

1289
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:14,160
if you want to hear your cards 
shouted out, or maybe play in 

1290
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:16,160
the next round of Crucible 
games. 

1291
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:19,960
Yeah, Speaking of Crucible, I 
have a really cool format for 

1292
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:22,560
July, so. 
And it's July 1st. 

1293
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:25,279
It's July 1st now, so go ahead 
and hop onto the discord or go 

1294
01:08:25,279 --> 01:08:27,720
to our socials and you should 
see some information about it. 

1295
01:08:28,120 --> 01:08:30,359
Hell yeah. 
Well, with that being said, 

1296
01:08:30,359 --> 01:08:31,760
guys, bye. 
Bye. 

1297
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:55,800
Pitch It to Me podcast is hosted
by Fuzzy Dope, Clark Moore and 

1298
01:08:55,800 --> 01:09:00,000
Joel Racinos, Executive producer
talent Stradley, logistics 

1299
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:05,479
coordinator John Farkas, music 
by Dylan Holtz, logo by on V 

1300
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:09,960
sound mixing, Christopher Moore 
and last but not least, you. 

1301
01:09:10,399 --> 01:09:12,840
Thank you for listening. 
Please give us a follow on your 

1302
01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:15,840
favorite social media platform 
at Pitch It to Me Podcast.