1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,320 Hi everyone, it's Joel, your second favorite host. 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,840 For this week's re released episode, I chose Meta Bottom 3 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,200 Feeders featuring Anthony Pham. I picked this episode because 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,680 it's our first guest with a non pigeon tuning member and because 5 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:15,880 Meta Bottom feeders are near and dear to all hearts at the 6 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,480 podcast. Anthony is a great player, 7 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,280 community leader and friend that perfectly exemplifies the type 8 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,040 of guest we want for the podcast. 9 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:25,880 It makes me so excited thinking about all the guests that we 10 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,480 have in store for you in 2025. See you there. 11 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,440 Welcome to Pitch It to Me podcast, a show about subjective 12 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:44,880 past, present and potential future of flesh and blood 13 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,160 design. Why did intoxicating shot cross 14 00:00:47,160 --> 00:00:48,200 the road? Why? 15 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,800 To get to the other side for today's episode, we'll be 16 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,000 talking about all the bottom feeders, the low tier heroes 17 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,200 that have won our hearts without winning any events. 18 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,880 On red pitch, we'll discuss how the community engages with poor 19 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:00,560 performing heroes. On yellow pitch, we'll talk 20 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,480 about which heroes are chumming it up at the bottom tier bucket. 21 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,360 And on blue pitch, we'll round out our conversation with what 22 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:08,320 can be added to help the bottom feeder heroes. 23 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,080 You can find us across all socials such as TikTok and 24 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:12,880 Instagram at Pitcher to Me podcast. 25 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:29,200 I'm Clark. I'm Joel. 26 00:01:29,320 --> 00:01:32,560 And I'm fuzzy. And we have a guest. 27 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,520 Please welcome to the podcast, Anthony Pham. 28 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,200 Hello everybody, I'm Anthony Pham, resident Riptide Enjoyer. 29 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,960 So Anthony, I want to ask all of our guests who come on the show, 30 00:01:45,960 --> 00:01:49,840 what do you think is your like proudest achievement as a member 31 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:51,040 of the flesh and blood community? 32 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,080 Yeah, my proudest achievement definitely, I think, would be 33 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,120 community engagement. I put a lot of work into trying 34 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,160 to make sure the armies fire and that everyone gets the cards 35 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,280 they need to. So I always joke around that, 36 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,360 hey, if you want a card from me, come play the first round of my 37 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,039 Armory. So that's a huge thing that I 38 00:02:08,039 --> 00:02:10,880 like to do just to get people in the seats, people playing in the 39 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:12,120 game. So I think Flesh and Blood 40 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:13,840 should be played in the flesh and blood. 41 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,440 But also, I'm really proud of this Riptide deck that I've made 42 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,760 recently, the red liner Riptide, literally red liner. 43 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,840 It feels like the first deck I've made that I've made from 44 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,920 scratch from zero to 80 cards, and it's just something that I 45 00:02:26,920 --> 00:02:28,000 really enjoy playing at the moment. 46 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,200 And what card shop do you work at? 47 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:31,760 Where? Where can we catch you? 48 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,400 Yeah, I work currently at Kingsterry Games. 49 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,080 We have 3 locations right now. I work at the one mainly in 50 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:38,480 Fountain Valley. I'm the manager there. 51 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:42,000 We also have locations in Oceanside, CA and Lake Forest, 52 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:43,480 CA. Nice. 53 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:46,600 Thank you so much for coming on to the podcast. 54 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,880 We also want to take a moment here in our Turn 0 to shout out 55 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,280 our executive producer, Town Stradley, who just wrote up and 56 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,320 released an article at a time of recording. 57 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,400 He just released an article on rate times all about his 58 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:02,360 fatigue. Riptide lists, right? 59 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:07,440 And I know that you, Anthony and him, just met up at APQ and 60 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:09,480 talked about your different approaches. 61 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:11,360 Yep, Yep, that was a lot of fun. It is. 62 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,640 It is cool to see Riptide built in so many different ways and 63 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:16,440 the the way people react to it too. 64 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,320 There was actually a funny part where someone thought I was on 65 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,840 Talons list so they were like, I'm dredging another fatigue 66 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,960 game and I'm like here with my 60 card clean 60 aggro Riptide. 67 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:30,280 So it's pretty fun to see all the different reactions to 68 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,040 Riptide. Yeah, not only that you brought 69 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,960 Riptide to APQ, but the polar opposites that your decks are so 70 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:37,880 funny. It's good. 71 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,240 It was good, for me at least, that Talon was so notorious in 72 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:42,760 that area with this Riptide bill. 73 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,640 All right, let's go ahead and jump into our red pitch. 74 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:52,680 We wanted to start off our red pitch by talking about community 75 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,480 engagement, sort of like how does the community engage with a 76 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,280 lot of these bottom tier heroes and really just with getting 77 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:02,480 into the game. Yeah, it's, it's funny you say 78 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,440 that Clark, because a lot of the community engagement with Flesh 79 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,080 and Blood often is has nothing to do with our topic for today. 80 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:13,200 It usually has to do with net decking, which means just taking 81 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:17,079 whatever performs really well in the Flesh and Blood meta and 82 00:04:17,079 --> 00:04:20,399 copying that list either card for card or changing a few cards 83 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,840 that suit their specific metas or their tastes, whatever. 84 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,080 Flesh and Blood players are total net deckers. 85 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,280 It's like, I think all trading card games are pretty net decky. 86 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,440 I I don't, I think it's because everyone who plays a trading 87 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:40,560 card game generally wants to win and so we're always looking at 88 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,200 what is winning. I think that's mostly true. 89 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,640 I think with Magic the Gathering, like Commander is a 90 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,880 very forgiving format where you can have whatever deck you 91 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:51,760 wanted. You can bring your random brew 92 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,480 up to a commander table and do reasonably well with it. 93 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,080 I think the difference would be like Magic the Gathering. 94 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,040 Modern or Standard is usually a lot of net deckers, yeah. 95 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,000 On the topic, I think Flesh and Blood is a newer game and net 96 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,040 decking is specifically prevalent in here because the 97 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,880 carpool is very small, so it's not there's not that much room 98 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,680 for innovation. So when people look up decks or 99 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:15,720 try to build something from scratch, they're like why not 100 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,720 just copy an 80 that's already successful and just play that. 101 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,840 There's not a lot of variance between decks right now, 102 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:24,160 especially when there are heroes that don't have talents. 103 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,520 Because now these heroes only have their class cards and their 104 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:28,520 generic cards. Whereas heroes that are 105 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,480 elemental have all these ice cards, you know, earth cards, 106 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,760 lightning cards, that they have availability available to them 107 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:37,920 and they can use that however they'd like. 108 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,920 Especially with he was like Breyer who can use generic cards 109 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:43,680 very well as well. Yeah, right. 110 00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:47,280 A word that you just made me think of is expression. 111 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:49,960 Like a lot of the times when people talk about commander in 112 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,640 Magic Gathering and like, why did that format pop off as hard 113 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,040 as it did? It's because it gave players a 114 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,360 lot of expression. They could put pet cards in 115 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:00,040 their deck, right? And they can do weird 116 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,640 strategies, rares that they just had lying around. 117 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,080 And so each deck felt uniquely theirs. 118 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,520 Flesh and Blood isn't there yet, but I think you do start to see 119 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,840 it in some of those elemental heroes where they have the big 120 00:06:11,840 --> 00:06:14,960 expanded card lists. I've seen so many different Lexi 121 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,840 lists and a lot of people who express themselves through the 122 00:06:18,840 --> 00:06:22,960 little choices that they make in their Lexi lists in a way that I 123 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:24,640 don't quite see with other heroes. 124 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,240 I've also noticed the inverse. Like Anthony, you brought this 125 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:33,040 up previously in in our prep, but Michael Hamilton with his 126 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:37,200 bowl in your list, he, even though he has a really catered 127 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:42,080 cardpool of ice, ice wizard and just wizard, chose to have these 128 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,320 really well stated like generic cards like famous fighting 129 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:50,040 spirits and wounded bowl to use them in a way that no other hero 130 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:54,000 has been able to do in the past. And it kind of like shocked 131 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,200 literally the world because he ended up winning worlds with it 132 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:02,000 with how innovative play can be rewarded if you, you know, take 133 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,240 the time to really test like the full card list you have access 134 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,640 to, as shallow as it might be, right? 135 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,200 Yeah, and we see also see the perils of net decking too, 136 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,920 because a lot of people they will copy these very aggressive 137 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:14,600 lists because aggro is very easy to play. 138 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,040 And then Charles Dunn comes out of nowhere with this very 139 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,200 fatigue heavy Briar list that everyone expects will be playing 140 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:21,920 snatch and all these aggro cards, right. 141 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,280 And he just fatigues everyone. So it can be at your own peril 142 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,800 too, because that means if you're net decking, you might 143 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:29,720 have know all the insurance and outs of your deck and you're not 144 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,560 ready for, you know, on the fly strategies like playing against 145 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,520 fatigue Briar or all arcane Iceland even. 146 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:36,920 Yeah. And you know, The funny thing 147 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,200 about that is how baked into the game it is. 148 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,160 You know, if you sit down across from Charles Dunn, who has not, 149 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,920 who's about to win nationals but hasn't yet, you don't really 150 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,760 have any way of knowing that he's about to play a fatigue 151 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,680 list unless like you maybe scout scouted it out from other 152 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:53,440 tables, right? Like if he's already been doing 153 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:55,880 well, to be able to play something that's so different 154 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,520 than the norm can really give you an advantage in a game like 155 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,560 Flesh and Blood because it's a best of one format. 156 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,080 Other games best of three format, they allow you to get a 157 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,240 taste of their deck before you make all their final decisions 158 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:09,560 for what goes into your deck. Right? 159 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,520 Because best of one is the way that we play Flesh and Blood. 160 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:18,160 It can actually like, fundamentally lead to innovative 161 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,080 decks performing better because they're different than 162 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,040 everything else, and they trip people up with their sideboard, 163 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,520 for better or for worse. Or even decks with lower play 164 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:26,160 rates and heroes with lower play rates. 165 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,760 I know that when I was preparing for The Calling, I was slamming 166 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,600 games against all the top deck lists and then I ended up 167 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,080 playing against a Rhinar and a Durinthia and I was like 168 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,400 dropping these games. And it's like, why am I dropping 169 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,480 against Rhinar and Durinthia? Because I never tested my deck 170 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,960 against them. I didn't know the insurance and 171 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,760 outs of that match up. And that's just going to get 172 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,520 worse as time goes on for. Sure, for sure. 173 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,160 So many more new heroes are coming. 174 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,040 Yeah, it's going to become a lot harder to keep track of them all 175 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,480 because didn't they announce that like there's gonna be 15 176 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,640 new heroes in the next year, in 2024? 177 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:06,280 So we're going to get a lot of new heroes entering our formats. 178 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,840 15 plus was the number that was floated out there. 179 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,360 We don't know if James White in that article is saying, oh, the 180 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,600 blitz hero and the adult hero, That's two unique heroes. 181 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,000 We don't know if that's what's happening. 182 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:20,760 True. So it could just be 7. 183 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:22,320 I, I don't think that's the case. 184 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,880 We don't know how many of those are blitz specific, but if 185 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:29,320 that's CC, that is close to nearly doubling the amount of 186 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,640 playable heroes in the meta over the course of one year. 187 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:35,760 Not all of those heroes are going to be at the top of the 188 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:37,840 meta. They are not all going to be 189 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:42,440 competing for world slot. So I think there's a really big 190 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:46,160 conversation that we need to have as a community of how do we 191 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:51,400 as a community manage a flood of new heroes coming in when we 192 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,760 know that a vast majority of them are not going to be 193 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,480 competing for those top slots, they're not going to be the most 194 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:03,360 competitively viable heroes. How do we we accept that new 195 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,160 players are going to want to play them? 196 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,400 How do we accept that we're going to want to play them and 197 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,480 then bring them to tournaments and lose on them? 198 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:15,360 No. Never could be me, but it 199 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:19,480 couldn't be me. I think the bottom two hills, 200 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,040 when they 1st come out, they I think most of them are just 201 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,400 going to be unsolved. It's sort of like this puzzle 202 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,960 that comes out. LSS always says that, you know, 203 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:32,360 they have a specific kind of archetype in mind when heroes 204 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:34,560 come out, and they said it with Prism, how Prism was a little 205 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:36,920 bit underpowered and what they're testing, but they think 206 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,120 Vincet is really strong. So I think LSS on release always 207 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,680 has an idea for these heroes and it's up to players to kind of 208 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,640 put the jigsaw puzzle together to see if they can solve it in 209 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,160 time. And I think that that will be a 210 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,200 never ending solution until they retire because there's always 211 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,680 new cards that are entering the card pool, new generics. 212 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,040 Sometimes the generics work really well with some classes, 213 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,680 sometimes they don't. Like Snatch works really well in 214 00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:02,480 aggro decks, whereas, you know, sync blow works really well in 215 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,640 mid range decks or tank decks. And that's just going to be the 216 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:06,120 case for all these heroes, right? 217 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,360 What's to say another hero just uses Snatch really well and then 218 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,640 now they can just exploit that in some way? 219 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:17,440 Yeah, that's interesting because with like when you double the 220 00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:22,360 the the amount of heroes, like a lot of them might not even get 221 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,800 touched until some of them like prove we've mentioned in a 222 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,640 previous episode that aggro kind of like pushes the meta to see 223 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,800 like where everything else falls like controlled eggs are very 224 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:36,160 reactive in that way. So we're going to probably see 225 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,760 the aggressive heroes that come out in the following year, how 226 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,960 well they use the current generics, how they use their 227 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,240 card pool that they come out with, but also how they 228 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,480 revitalize the class cards that they share with the older 229 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,000 heroes. And I could definitely see like, 230 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,560 you know, them like similar to how Lexi came out and 231 00:11:55,560 --> 00:11:59,600 cannibalized Azaleas cards and even cannibalize Riptide's 232 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,680 cards, you know, with the new Brute warrior and Guardian, like 233 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:05,840 there's going to be a non zero chance of that happening. 234 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,560 And when you have more heroes than you can kind of like 235 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:14,360 reliably test in a given pro season, you know Vincette and 236 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:18,720 Prism are probably going to move from like 2 unused hero to like, 237 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,280 maybe. Like 10, like maybe only 5 are, 238 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,400 are really that good and can compete in a, in a competitive 239 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,040 landscape. Yeah. 240 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,240 And I think you bring up something great, which is 241 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,600 there's only so many players like in flesh and blood and only 242 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,960 so many players at these events. Sample size is a big thing to 243 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,520 consider here. We're like, we're only really 244 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:42,040 going to know if a hero is good or bad the moment that there is 245 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,400 a mass of players playing them. There's always going to be, you 246 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,640 know, 1 tricks or small dedicated player bases who may 247 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:51,920 they even get results on these heroes, but it doesn't 248 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,600 necessarily mean they're good. Yeah, I think sample size is 249 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,000 very important too. Like obviously the people that 250 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,400 are serious about winning and competitive, all all the 251 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,640 competitive reasons they're going to play what they think is 252 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,320 the best deck and more than not, that's the most played deck. 253 00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:08,200 Whereas, you know, if the pro of a professional picks up Riptide 254 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,000 or Vincet, they might have a different angle or different 255 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,240 mentality than, you know, someone that is A1 trick or 256 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:14,440 someone that's just starting out. 257 00:13:14,680 --> 00:13:18,160 So I feel like there's this lack of sort of the competitive side 258 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,520 to these bottom tier heroes because they don't want to play 259 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,800 them for tournaments. They don't want to use them for, 260 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:27,720 you know, practice or bring them to these big these big 261 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:29,240 tournaments that are behind paywalls. 262 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,320 You know, like it takes like $70.00 to play like at a 263 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:34,440 calling. So like they don't want to spend 264 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,120 70 bucks just to play Riptide and lose, you know, three games 265 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,920 out of nowhere. So I think we're lacking this 266 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:44,840 sort of innovation from the competitive players in terms of 267 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,320 these bottom tier decks, just because they want to win, they 268 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,920 want to play the best deck, they're going to play whatever 269 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,720 they think is, yeah. That's such a good point. 270 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,480 Yeah, Yeah, really interesting because you know, we've already 271 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,640 talked about a little bit how the innovators can find really 272 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,480 great success with the element of surprise and having very 273 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,800 unique play styles into a very specific meta like Michael 274 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,080 Hamilton and Charles Dunn, like we've, you know, mentioned 275 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,120 before. But not everyone is incentivized 276 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,120 to do that like you said, because Riptide on paper 277 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,200 probably doesn't have the greatest shot at winning until 278 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,840 the one tricks team up with the pro players and have this insane 279 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,920 strategy come out of it. But that's how often is that 280 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,040 gonna happen? It takes a very unique set of 281 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:27,880 circumstances to really pull off. 282 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,840 And even one of those decks that we talked about, Michael 283 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:35,880 Hamilton Bowl Lander list, Icelander is a good hero, Right? 284 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:41,120 And I think Bolander was pretty early on in Icelander's history. 285 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:42,080 Correct. Yes. 286 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,120 Yeah. So even before the wider 287 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:48,440 community understood how good Icelander was as a hero, a pro 288 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,800 player had already picked her up as being one of the better 289 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:55,320 heroes and then designed the deck and surprised everyone. 290 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,240 It's going to be a lot that's a little bit different than 291 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:02,360 Riptide, where Riptide wasn't immediately sort of picked out 292 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,240 by pro players as a hero to invest time into. 293 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,360 So they're not. And all of their skill and 294 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:13,200 expertise both in deck building and flexible play patterns and 295 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:19,160 meta sniping, all of that just got all that effort and 296 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:24,120 expertise that they have got focused on two other heroes and 297 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,440 left Riptide by the wayside. Maybe if that energy was focused 298 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,520 on to Riptide, Riptide would be getting way more results for 299 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,280 sure. Yeah, you can see that exactly 300 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,040 in the current in the current Joe my list. 301 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,480 I think a lot of people now are running cadaverous contraband to 302 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,600 be able to hit a dragon, kill like a big Uvia and now put rake 303 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,800 on their top of their deck, put as well on the top of their 304 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:43,680 deck. So like if that amount of, you 305 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,360 know, manpower went into building something that Riptide 306 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:48,440 can use, maybe Riptide would be in a better place. 307 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,760 But we'll probably never see that for the time being just 308 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,240 because there's more competitive heroes out there that these 309 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,480 people that are are travelling all across the world they're 310 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,680 playing in events for. And Clark, I feel like we're 311 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:03,240 kind of nearing the end of this conversation, but I remember you 312 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,840 saying that you've had some rather unpleasant experiences 313 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:12,760 when trying to find alternatives to deckless that you see pro 314 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,920 players use and trying to adapt it to either your own meta or 315 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,600 own budget even, and having some really, you know, interesting 316 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,120 backlash. I'll say, say with nice words. 317 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,720 So when we move into a meta with 15 new heroes, like how like, 318 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:32,080 you know, how do we encourage innovation not not just from a 319 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:36,160 necessity standpoint to target a certain meta, but also just to 320 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,240 promote brewing? Yeah, we we've talked a little 321 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,440 bit before the episode started and I mentioned some of the 322 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:47,280 experiences I've been having in the online official Flesh and 323 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:51,040 Blood Discord channels for specific heroes, most notably 324 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,040 the Max and the Viscera ones, because that's just what I'm 325 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:54,840 focusing a lot of my time on right now. 326 00:16:55,360 --> 00:17:00,160 But I feel like you can see it as this general online sentiment 327 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:05,920 of being negative towards people who are trying really different 328 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,880 unique builds. And I think that there's, you 329 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,000 know, a little bit of give and take. 330 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,280 I think if you're someone who maybe has some prestige in the 331 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,160 community, you're given a bit more space to do that and talk 332 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:22,119 about it in these spaces. I think if you are someone who 333 00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:26,160 has 1 results elsewhere, people are going to give you more 334 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,040 benefit of the doubt. You know, it's one thing when a 335 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:33,480 random Andy pops into the chats. Like guys, no Riptide's going to 336 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:38,160 be #1 this season. Trust me, I got the crazy new 337 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:43,240 tech scar for scar and it's like no buddy like we've. 338 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:51,320 That's me, everybody. Yeah, but it's. 339 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:53,920 It's definitely a general negative sentiment. 340 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,320 Like literally just the other day we were talking that a tweet 341 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,400 came out where someone's like, oh, it's so annoying when some 342 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,160 random person hops into the Discord and talks about how 343 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:07,000 they've been brewing with Riptide and it's like, why? 344 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,000 Why is that annoying to you? If if anything, it should be 345 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,120 generally encouraged. But the same time, I also see 346 00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:17,640 why people don't like it if we're trying to find as a 347 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,840 community, if we're trying to find just that one or two cards 348 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,680 to change to make our hero good, It's really frustrating when 349 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,480 people are coming in and rehashing a conversation that we 350 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,280 had three weeks ago about a card. 351 00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:33,560 Like we, we already agreed, like I'm not saying this is true for 352 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,840 a riptide, but as using that example, dude, we've already 353 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,240 agreed scoffers are not great. Let's not use it. 354 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,600 We've we're like, we're here now catch up, right? 355 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:43,440 So there's definitely that conversation. 356 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,080 But I agree with where you're coming from. 357 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,120 Like not everyone is going to be joining the community at the 358 00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:50,680 same time. Other people have while they're 359 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,840 having these conversations about a more competitive landscape. 360 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:59,280 Like if I first joined, like the Bolton chat for for instance, 361 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,120 I'd go in there like once in a blue moon and I'm like, hey, 362 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,200 this guy came out with the hatchets. 363 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,960 Is he using the hatchets? And everyone's like, no, use red 364 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,240 and use Centauri Sabres. Not in that same tone. 365 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,760 But, you know, just trying to relate it to more than just 366 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,240 Riptide because Bolton has seen a bit more play. 367 00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:20,720 But there's that same, you know, negative sentiment, like whether 368 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,480 or not it's like has good intentions behind it. 369 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:26,800 There's going to be like that, that backlash between a new 370 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,960 player and an entrenched player. I feel like maybe this is like 371 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,680 the anthropology major in me, but I keep wanting to like 372 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,040 explain this as like a trend because of the way that people 373 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,920 communicate. Like you're on a Discord server 374 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,000 where like you pop in with a quick question and you kind of 375 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,480 expect a quick answer. And the people trying to supply 376 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:49,320 that quick answer are gonna try to give you like the common 377 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,000 knowledge, you know, call it like the cultural knowledge of 378 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,600 like this is what people in general think about Riptide 379 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:57,920 right now. And it's like, do it this way or 380 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,840 like this is like what we as a group know. 381 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,720 And it becomes a lot less about like individual experience. 382 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,400 You know, like, imagine if someone came and like, this is, 383 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,360 I have personally tested that. And this is what I found, right. 384 00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:11,520 Like you're not gonna get that kind of answer on Discord 385 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,000 because the people that are able to respond immediately is not 386 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,080 necessarily the people that have specifically the perfect answer 387 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:20,320 to your question, right. Yeah. 388 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,800 The best they can do is like, this is what we know as a group. 389 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:24,080 And that's gonna be very limited. 390 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,640 You know, it's gonna be snappy. And I'm not saying that like. 391 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:29,280 I don't know what I'm trying to say here. 392 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,240 Something about like how Discord, a Discord server is 393 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,160 going to lend itself to answers like that. 394 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:35,680 Yeah. And if you want a nuanced 395 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,360 answer, you probably will not find it on a Discord server or 396 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:41,160 on Twitter. But it gets really rough when, 397 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,760 like, that's the main ways that we engage with the community 398 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:45,160 right now, right? Or new. 399 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,120 Players, I mean the thing that really triggered this for me was 400 00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:51,680 that someone came into the Max chat and said I do not have the 401 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:56,160 money to buy Nitromechanoid. What other lists are there? 402 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,160 And people said, then you're just going, going to lose. 403 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,320 It's like, how is that the correct response? 404 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,360 How is the response? Oh, you don't have the money 405 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:10,080 lose, fucking give up. Like, how is that the response? 406 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:17,400 It's such a Dick thing to say. And like you it it that is 407 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,480 what's frustrating. It feels like a lot of the time 408 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,920 in these chats, and just in flesh and blood in general, 409 00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:26,440 there's such a high emphasis on winning that it overrides 410 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,520 creativity. But then like, in order for 411 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:31,800 someone to come up with a different, better answer to that 412 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,760 question, they'd have to have like testing experience, right? 413 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,760 And so far, like, we've only had like a month of pro quests and 414 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,160 people were probably testing Nitromechanoid, you know? 415 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:45,040 And it's hard to like invest money in a deck list, even a 416 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,600 cheap deck list, and then bring it to a tournament, like for all 417 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:49,200 these reasons that we've been mentioning before. 418 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,920 So like, it is a shame to see that the attitudes can really 419 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:59,240 quickly be dismissive in Discord or whatever, insert online forum 420 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,840 here, but and I'd definitely like be excited to see things 421 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,040 move in a different direction where we're able to foster new 422 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:09,200 ideas in a different way. Yeah, it's funny how we reward 423 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,720 such creativity, just like the Ray Adams list or the bull 424 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:13,880 lender list from Michael Hamilton. 425 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,360 But we are also ridiculing these people for trying out new decks, 426 00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:21,120 new heroes, new cards and these already established decks like 427 00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:24,680 Promise of Plenty and Dromi say, for example, like we would 428 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,920 ridicule that deck because it's not Snatch, it's not dust up, 429 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,200 right? So little story I played. 430 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,920 I played Icelander at the Age Players Championship with crazy 431 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,960 brew and gamblers gloves. And you won that event. 432 00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:38,640 I did. I. 433 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,920 Did end up winning that event. Both of those were kind of use 434 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,920 cases for several different decks and I kind of posted the 435 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:51,920 deck list online after that and there were some some feedback, I 436 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:53,920 guess I could say. Towards. 437 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,280 Gamblers, bells and crazy brew, you know, Icelanders, this sort 438 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,400 of hyper efficient deck that like winds turn cycles over and 439 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,240 over and over. And anytime you kind of stray 440 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,120 away from that with these rolling sort of mechanics or 441 00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:07,120 like equipment that doesn't block and has a weird effect, 442 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,040 people kind of ridicule you for that. 443 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,120 So it's just kind of funny how there's always and the people 444 00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:15,080 trying to innovate the game, but then when it's not successful, 445 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,320 it's kind of too weird. People will ridicule you for 446 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,600 doing so. If you were LSS or if you were 447 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:24,160 like a community head, like how would you promote this 448 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,960 innovation for new strategies with testing teams, for 449 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,240 instance, they would be mostly focusing on the top list and 450 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,720 maybe debating on like one or two card choices, like maybe 451 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,800 less of XYZ card to add 1 of this card that will be good for 452 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:43,120 a specific matchup. I would say seldom would they 453 00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:47,680 say, let's try, you know, fatigue Briar, like that's a 454 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,040 very specific situation that that needs to go down. 455 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,160 So like, how, how would you promote something like that in 456 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,120 a, in a community? Yeah, I, I think there's two 457 00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:57,480 trains of thought there. I think there's the first train 458 00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,400 of thought where you take, what do you think is the going to be 459 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,080 the most successful deck into the field? 460 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,440 And then kind of tecking that however, which way you want, 461 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,360 like say you really want, you think Dromi is going to be the 462 00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:09,880 best deck coming up, right? You want to detect this Dromi 463 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,960 deck for, you know, other Dromi is the mirror or whatever else 464 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,520 you think will be very popular. And then there's the other train 465 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,800 of thought, which is my personal favorite train of thought, which 466 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,400 is playing the anti meta where you know that Dromi will be the 467 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,440 most favored hero. So that you build a hero to kind 468 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,560 of counter that. And whenever you see a Dromi pop 469 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,360 up, you know they pretty much ought to win. 470 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,840 Yeah. And that could be like Phi or if 471 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:32,440 you can hunt, you can even go deeper than that. 472 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,280 You can go anti anti meta where you predict that there will be a 473 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,560 lot of Phi because of Dromi. So you play Riptide which has a 474 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,160 line 95% win rate into into Phi in my history. 475 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,440 Or you can go anti anti anti meta. 476 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,760 Just play drum. Just destroy riptide. 477 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,200 Yeah, and then and then when you lose as riptide like I can't 478 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:54,600 believe you detect for me with that anti. 479 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,240 The meta is just an oroboros. This is a snake. 480 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,280 Eating its own. Oh my God, that's so funny. 481 00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:05,120 Oh you're a meta chaser? No, I'm an anti anti anti. 482 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:12,160 I knew you'd be playing. We've talked a little bit about 483 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,640 how the community engages with low tier heroes in general, but 484 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,000 let's get into some more specifics for yellow pitch. 485 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,360 Let's hear some more about like what heroes right now we would 486 00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:25,880 consider to be those bottom feeders, those Chum Bucket 487 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,400 heroes. Anthony, what do you think? 488 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:29,640 What is what sticks out in your mind? 489 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:38,440 Well, the bottom of the bear unfortunately at everyone's 490 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,480 competitive tier lists, all the videos coming out and also the 491 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,600 living legend point system is my personal favorite Riptide. 492 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,960 He's just kind of in this weird in between position between Lexi 493 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,760 and Azalea where you kind of are. 494 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,480 I feel like his hero mechanics kind of support you playing buff 495 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,080 so that you can load arrows in the arsenal. 496 00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:03,360 But then again, that's just the worst Azalea and then you don't 497 00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:05,320 have a neat go again. So then again, you're just the 498 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,840 worst Voltaire. So I think he's kind of in this 499 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,200 weird position where not all the traps are applicable to every 500 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,040 hero, so you kind of have to find this kind of weird in 501 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,560 between spot. Ted is such a weird example too 502 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:23,280 because you read that hero card, free uninteractable damage and 503 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,360 like I get to reload for free. I don't even need to like use my 504 00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:28,120 bow. Like it seems like a really 505 00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:30,760 awesome hero ability, but then in practice for whatever reason 506 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,360 it just like isn't. It's so super interesting to me. 507 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,000 Yeah, and also heroes have like, usually, like heroes that have 508 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,080 less starting health are kind of, you know, on this radar of 509 00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:42,120 kind of more broken because they do damage outside of their turn, 510 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:43,720 right? But it just feels like Riptide, 511 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,440 the one damage ping isn't enough to kind of push him over the 512 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,640 edge. Yeah, like like you know, 513 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,160 playing traps throughout the game, depending on the matchup, 514 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,360 you might go and we you see this in talents article as well. 515 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:58,080 You can go anywhere from like 0 damage all game or two or even 516 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,200 like upwards of 10 if you just like really see them at all the 517 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,160 right times, right. It's so match up dependent of. 518 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,840 And situational. And situational, yeah, you can. 519 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,720 You can have the right match up and just not have it line up on 520 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,880 the turn where it happens to be relevant, right? 521 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,480 Yeah, I feel like Riptide is kind of like this blowout hero 522 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,080 where his traps can be overwhelming, but it happens 523 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:21,520 like a very small amount of the time. 524 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,840 Like if collapsing trap happens the right time, if buzz saw 525 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,960 happens at the right time, it can be a turn ender. 526 00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:28,880 But there's times where, you know, you draw and they throw a 527 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,560 CNC at you and now you either have to trench it away or don't 528 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,080 block it all or use it to for your quiver or whatever. 529 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,360 So now you're not seeing that for the rest of the game, right. 530 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,680 So like there's very it's a very difficult hero. 531 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,680 I feel like to get all the factors that make him win lineup 532 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:44,640 and that's why he probably doesn't see as much. 533 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,920 You know, kind of talking about another low tier hero, or at 534 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:53,000 least pretty low in terms of living legend points is me and 535 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,080 Joe's favorite Lavaya. They're. 536 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,120 Going to say Iraqi. I'm like, don't you dare. 537 00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,640 No, I would never associate you with Iraq. 538 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:01,880 Thank you. I appreciate that the. 539 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,560 First time I was like, Arachne has good hero design. 540 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,760 You literally laughed at me. I'm never gonna associate you 541 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,160 with Arachne. I don't care how much you grow 542 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:11,440 to love. Him love them. 543 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,200 That's a very Joel comment. I just. 544 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,080 Said you're not allowed to sit at my table. 545 00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:17,720 No, you're not. You bullied me for years. 546 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,840 Go sit with the cool kids, Arachne and I. 547 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,760 We don't need you. I love how Leviath's the cool 548 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:24,600 kids. That's crazy. 549 00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:31,400 But Leviah, Leviah Leviah is pretty cool now, but Leviah is 550 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:36,200 also considered one of the like higher variance heroes, 551 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,320 Especially with using scab skins to like really try to explode 552 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,440 out your turns. Do we think this is what leads 553 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,760 to a hero being low tier is being too reliant on higher 554 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:53,280 variation to make them powerful? Yeah, because every every 555 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,680 trading card game and every hero will have some level of variance 556 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,480 and you can exploit that variance for really insane 557 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,440 amount of resources or power. But with Leviah, like literally 558 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:08,000 every card in her kit will say random or like draw to which you 559 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,440 know implies more randomness, right? 560 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,920 Like banish 3 random cards from graveyard. 561 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,120 Now with brute in general, like for instance blood rush spells 562 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,600 like the premier brute card, it says discard a random card from 563 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,720 hand. But the way you play your turn 564 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,080 by turn, most times when you play it, you're going to have 565 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,680 only other sixes minus your pitch card after you, you know, 566 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:34,440 choose to play that card. But it's, you know, still random 567 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,000 and all of her blood deck cards that are supposedly overstated 568 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,920 and don't require a day's card from hand in exchange for other 569 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,480 benefits like go again or buffs on the card itself still says 3 570 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,000 random cards from graveyard. And the longer the game goes, 571 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,280 the wider your graveyard gets and the randomness starts to 572 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,960 feel like way more overwhelming than just having like only sixes 573 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,520 in graveyard and having more quote UN quote misses, right so. 574 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,880 So Oviah does have a lot of randomness for sure. 575 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,200 Is the randomness the thing that makes her low tier? 576 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,280 I think it is, yes, because when people say low tier, it means 577 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,640 consistency and winning. You know, these big events and 578 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,040 these big events have 14 rounds, 15 rounds that you have to play. 579 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:18,960 And there's going to be a game where you get wrecked by 580 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,480 scabskins. There's going to be a game where 581 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,040 you just didn't banish something off. 582 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:23,160 Dread screaming, right? Right. 583 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,120 Heroes like brutes have more susceptibility to randomness. 584 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,040 So, you know, the more you expose yourself to this sort of 585 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,760 dice rolling mechanic, the more you're gonna get burned by it. 586 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,600 And you know, it could happen in game one, It could happen in 587 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,720 game 14. You can run hot all day and just 588 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,080 not have that happen. But a hero like, you know, a 589 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,760 more consistent hero like Lexi that just has arrows every hand. 590 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,160 I mean, being able to use Voltaire to load everything, 591 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,240 that's going to be more consistent throughout a long 592 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,800 tournament day as compared to Ryanar who's going to be rolling 593 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,480 scabskins going to be discarding a random card blood rush bellow 594 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,120 might hit your blue instead of your red. 595 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,800 So like there's a lot of factors that come with brute and these 596 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,320 low tier heroes and a lot more has to go right for them. 597 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,000 Whereas these top tier heroes have a sort of a form of 598 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,920 consistency where they can kind of replicate the same powerful 599 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,840 play over and over and over. Whereas these lower tier heroes 600 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:14,400 can do that, but at a very lower of much lower rate than for sure 601 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,640 top of the meta. Yeah, cuz you know, I've heard 602 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:20,440 it put in a way from, you know, a barraging Blake. 603 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,480 You know, scabskin rolls. Like whenever you choose to roll 604 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,040 it, there's a 5050 chance that you get 2 action points and a 605 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:32,040 one in 36 chance that you get either A1 or A6. 606 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,480 And eventually when enough brutes go to events, there's 607 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,080 going to be Reiner's and Levy is a place really high or God 608 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,520 forbid, win something. And that's because they are 609 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,520 quite literally the one in 36 and the other 5050 or the other 610 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,760 like side of the spectrum. They're me having like 03 games 611 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:57,080 or three 3, whatever. And so it can be kind of hard to 612 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,080 measure the power level of the cards at face value when you're, 613 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,360 like you said, Anthony, when you're tied to this like 614 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,840 inherently random and prone to bad luck mechanic. 615 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,280 Yeah I agree. Like most of the bottom 2 heroes 616 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:14,640 like Arachne, Riptide and Levy even, they can all blow out a 617 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,840 hero. Like if Arachne finds a good 618 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,360 double cut to the chase, eradicate turn, then just hit 619 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,840 all of your art of wars is fine you might win that game. 620 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,960 But that's not going to happen every game because you got 621 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,960 insanely lucky there, right? So there are these power plays 622 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,080 built into these lower tier heroes that can happen, but they 623 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:31,760 happen way less often than these top here. 624 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,440 For sure. See, that's interesting because 625 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,240 I was going to bring up how Arachne I almost feel is counter 626 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:42,360 to this because Arachne is so consistent turn by turn, but 627 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,040 there's still something holding Arachne back from being a good 628 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,360 hero in terms of competitive results. 629 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,520 Because I've played against Arachne's, we have a couple 630 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,200 people who just slam assassins at our locals. 631 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,040 I've played against a good amount of games. 632 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,240 I've even played a lot of Arachne and Blitz and I have 633 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,720 found turns are very consistent, right, based on how much I'm 634 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,920 allowed to keep. I know what my turn is looking 635 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:07,880 like. I know that I'm if I have a 636 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,760 blue, I'm going to be throwing a dagger and then if I have A1 637 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,360 cost attack, I'm going to throw that or that one cost could 638 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,560 represent my razor reflex or it, or I can add a find also throw 639 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,560 my other, right? There's so much I can do that I 640 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,640 know generally what my turn is going to look like just based on 641 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,840 how much I need to block. So Arachne is very consistent, 642 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,480 but then Arachne still doesn't win anything. 643 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,200 So why is that? I think that might be to a fault 644 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,320 too, in terms of Arachne's consistency. 645 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,440 If he's this hype kind of consistent hero that can do 646 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,960 like, you know, turn out to turn X amount of damage. 647 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,840 Other heroes might be able to expect that, you know, there's 648 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,080 not a sort of like randomness to the turns like blood rush bellow 649 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,960 or, you know, three of a kind rain razors where you know, you 650 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:52,800 don't know what they drew. You don't know how to prepare 651 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,360 Arachna. You can kind of like he's going 652 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,400 to dagger into contract card or he's just going to contract card 653 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,160 like 044. So you kind of know how to 654 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,640 prepare yourself, you know, say with sink below or or stuff like 655 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,320 that. You can kind of prepare for what 656 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,239 he's about to throw at you. And also I think his mechanic is 657 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,400 innately just kind of almost RNG ish where you kind of look at 658 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,880 the top of the deck, you get info, but say it's not a good 659 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,960 card to banish. Now you put it at the bottom and 660 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,360 then the next card you don't know anything. 661 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,840 So if that's a good card, you might, you know, hedge some 662 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:21,560 points towards your matchup in that way. 663 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,360 Say you hit like a a codex from a Ranger right? 664 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,280 That's gonna be a really big hit cuz now they're -1 codex right? 665 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,600 Let's say you just hit a random card like a blue steering shot. 666 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,600 Like that's probably not gonna help your game plan at all. 667 00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:35,560 So you're still like getting closer to this like fatigue game 668 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,320 plan, but the randomness is like after you bought them, after you 669 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,560 resolve your cut to taste is like what else do they still 670 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,679 have the deck? And based on what you banish, 671 00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:46,040 you might just get them even closer to their power cards 672 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,080 even, which is another consideration. 673 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,840 Yeah, yeah, I. Think it's also just sometimes 674 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,800 it is literally what the ability is and whether or not that is 675 00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:00,360 good for winning games. Lexi's ability is very good for 676 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,600 winning games. Free frostbite or free go again. 677 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:10,560 Great, wonderful, beautiful. Banishing a card off the top of 678 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,320 the opponent's deck is not going to do as much for you. 679 00:35:13,720 --> 00:35:19,200 Like, it's not a bad ability per SE, but the fact that it doesn't 680 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,360 do anything to quote UN quote impact the board I think really 681 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:25,840 hurts Arachne. And it's why Arachne is all the 682 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,360 way down there. It's an incredibly cool ability. 683 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,000 It is so much fun to think about, but it just isn't 684 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,000 actually a design that is competitive. 685 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,560 Yeah, it's a very macro ability, like it's going to impact the 686 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,080 game definitely, if the game lasts that long, to get to that 687 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,160 point where you can take advantage of the work you've 688 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,720 been doing turn by turn, but like you said, doesn't do. 689 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,280 Anything to the board state currently you're kind of just 690 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,720 like love to or leave them to their own devices. 691 00:35:50,720 --> 00:35:55,400 And that's why his best cards are either Eradicate, which lets 692 00:35:55,400 --> 00:36:00,920 Arachne banish a lot more cards, Surgical Extraction, which takes 693 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,760 a card out of their hand, or leave no Witnesses, which takes 694 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,200 a card out of their arsenal. All of those are the best 695 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,040 Arachne cards because they all impact the board state in some 696 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:14,680 way or in terms of Eradicate, it does so much more towards 697 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:19,360 Arachne's game plan. But I think we just also see 698 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,760 there's this other assassin hero that does it better. 699 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:24,840 Yeah. I think. 700 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:29,200 I think comparing Arachne to Azuri kind of states how flesh 701 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,320 and blood is designed. I think flesh and blood, you 702 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,720 know, as a tempo based game where you kind of back and forth 703 00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:36,680 against the other hero. You want to be a Zurich kind of 704 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,120 shines because she can do all this disruptive stuff that 705 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:40,920 limits how well you can do on your turn. 706 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,240 And then again, you're winning these turn cycles back and 707 00:36:43,240 --> 00:36:45,440 forth, back and forth. Whereas Arachne is kind of 708 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,240 having his own mini game in itself where he's like, you 709 00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:50,600 know, I'm going to make you mill and mill might not be a good 710 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,320 Strat in flesh and blood because you get to keep your entire 711 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:54,760 hand. You get to still all do all this 712 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,640 damn that you damage that you want, whereas Zuri, you know, 713 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,280 can hit you with a shakedown and just choose the best red in your 714 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,320 hand. So it's kind of tough, I feel 715 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,760 like to compare the two because it feels like Arachne is almost 716 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,360 kind of like a magic hero, like a some sort of alternative 717 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,200 wincon hero, whereas Zuri is kind of built for flesh and 718 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,040 blood where she's like back and forth. 719 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,680 She's winning these, you know, 2 card hands, one card hands even 720 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:18,800 with codex and and leave no witnesses. 721 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,560 And whereas Arachne kind of is to the sort of the back end 722 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,480 because he's playing kind of his own game plan, not not flesh and 723 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,040 blood. Something you just said kind of 724 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:31,440 like makes me think the mini game aspect listeners in our 725 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,080 notes, you can't see it, but we have like Levia slash Bolton 726 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,240 because those are both my favorite heroes. 727 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,720 But all these heroes, Arachne, Levaya, Bolton and Riptide, they 728 00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:41,960 have mini games in their hero ability. 729 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,000 While they're very flavorful, very fun to play with, they're 730 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:49,000 just not impactful to the game. Like Leviah having blood deck 731 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,040 cards like you can play from banished like at some point, 732 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,880 maybe not immediately, which means like you're having to 733 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,880 manage a lot more resources that if you don't see them right at 734 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,760 the right time or set up just the right way, you get blown 735 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,160 out. Arachne much longer game plan. 736 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,800 You're going to be banished with a contract using your silver 737 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:07,520 throughout the game. Riptide. 738 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,600 You want to be leaking in as much damage with your hero 739 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,800 ability, which doesn't necessarily equate to anything 740 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,360 in the middle of the game until like it's it's that really tight 741 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,400 knit end game. And then Bolton has like the 742 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,800 storage mechanic that he banks for later, which again, unless 743 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,080 you find a really great turn that you set up to take 744 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,640 advantage of like multiple cards in the soul, then often times 745 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,480 you're going to be like probably dead or dying when you're able 746 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,160 to capitalize on these mini games. 747 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,160 I like how you bring up this idea in mini games Joel, but I 748 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,080 don't think I quite agree that it's only like a low tier hero 749 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:42,520 thing. I feel like all kinds of flesh 750 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,040 and blood heroes. There are little mini games 751 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:45,320 going on. Yeah, like what? 752 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,600 I feel like the worst one is Dromi. 753 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,520 I would call like her little Dragons that she sets up like a 754 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,520 mini game. Like you have to like, do your 755 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,360 game plan, but also I'm giving you a new game plan that you 756 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,320 have to take care of and that's attack my Dragons. 757 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,160 I mean, I will point out just right there, it is a mini game 758 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,160 that requires the opponent to respond in some way. 759 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,680 Yeah, yeah. Which is a little bit different 760 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,080 than what Lavaya and Iraqi and Bolton have going on, where it 761 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:16,040 almost let's the other player have more room to breathe while 762 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,240 Dromy's Dragons put more pressure onto the opponent. 763 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:24,360 I would also count like ninja and mascot momentum like the 123 764 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,800 mini game. OK, but but again, that's 765 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:29,680 putting pressure on those moments. 766 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:31,800 On you to react to this sort of mini. 767 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:36,160 Game, yeah, but you're right that mini games do exist in 768 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,720 other heroes. But how that mini game? 769 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,400 Actually, both of the examples you just brought up gave us that 770 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:48,040 revelation of is it a mini game that makes the opponent respond 771 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,960 or can the opponent ignore it and keep blowing past them? 772 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,240 Right, right. You can definitely ignore mascot 773 00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:55,080 momentum. No, you. 774 00:39:55,240 --> 00:39:57,040 Can he's No. You can't. 775 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,000 He's psyopsing you so we can play kotsu at locals. 776 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,680 I mean, if you're just like making like go again or attack 777 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:06,720 reactions, whatever, and like triggering Riptide traps 778 00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:09,320 basically without thinking about it, like you probably won't go 779 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,760 that well for you because all of the stuff that Riptide does can 780 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:13,440 like really screw over your turn, right? 781 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,560 It is something you really have to play around, otherwise you'll 782 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,160 probably lose. Yeah, I think Riptide's mini 783 00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,640 game is situational as well. Whereas Katsu and Dromi, your 784 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,120 two examples are kind of, you know what's coming, right? 785 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,320 You know that Dromi is going to play a billion Dragons. 786 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,320 You know that, Katsu, if you don't block this card, I'm going 787 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,040 to draw a card. Proactive versus reactive. 788 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,200 Exactly. So yeah, I think the the mini 789 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,160 games differ in a lot of ways. And so it's very flavorful that, 790 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:36,840 you know, Flesh and blood has these heroes that have mini 791 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:37,720 games. That's really cool. 792 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,960 Yeah, but different kind of win cons are treated different ways 793 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,120 in sort of flesh and bloods back and forth tempo based game where 794 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,800 it's kind of you want to your opponent to do less while you 795 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,040 are doing more. Some of these mini games and 796 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,000 these heroes aren't contributing toward that, towards that, and 797 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:54,720 some of them are contributing very heavily. 798 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,800 Right. Now actually that's let's talk 799 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,200 about intoxicating shot then, because we're talking about 800 00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:05,040 proactive versus reactive pressure on the opponent versus 801 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,280 pressure on yourself as the player around these mini games. 802 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:13,520 So in terms of like the quadrant here, the worst quadrant to be 803 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:17,320 in is a reactive game plan that does not put pressure on the 804 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,960 opponent, which is how riptides traps feel. 805 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,200 A lot of the time you don't have the ability to really play 806 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,360 around your opponent. So it's a very, very reactive. 807 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:30,960 And then unless you're getting at least four points of value 808 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,920 off on the turn, which is the difference in starting life 809 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,880 total, it's also not really putting a lot of pressure on 810 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,520 your opponent. So isn't it intoxicating Shot 811 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:44,640 great because it gives you some proactivity in the mini game. 812 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,160 It turns on so many of your traps. 813 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,280 I think theoretically it does because it does turn on your 814 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:54,600 traps, but there is also some sort of deck building aspect 815 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:55,960 that goes into the toxicating shot. 816 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,320 You have to have some sort of critical mass of traps for it to 817 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,440 work. And then again, like is the the 818 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,240 value of the trap triggering going to help you out right? 819 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,160 Is this inertia token going to help? 820 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,400 Is this frailty going to help? Sometimes it doesn't, sometimes 821 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,960 it does. Sometimes you give them a 822 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,800 courage and an agility token or whatever it may be and they hit 823 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,160 you for CNC for seven, go again and you can't do anything. 824 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,880 Just. Your defense reactions and 825 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,800 sometimes they you don't draw the inertia trap, you draw the 826 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:23,480 frailty trap. But now you give them a break 827 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,000 point on their three go again. Made of four go again, right? 828 00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:27,760 Yeah. And they like play it from hand 829 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:29,400 or something. See frailty won't even affect 830 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,600 them. So there's sort of this like RNG 831 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,280 aspect behind intoxicating shot where the traps are so 832 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,920 situational and you are now giving them, you know this plus 833 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,560 one this go again. So traps that do trigger, but 834 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,480 then again, even if they do trigger, do they help you out 835 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:46,880 right? And I think the legendary traps 836 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,480 are are very good for this because they triggering them 837 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,120 will have bigger effects like discarding your hand or the 838 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:53,520 attack goes back down to its base. 839 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,640 But these sort of like traps that you just put in the deck 840 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,960 just to get one damage off, like, you know, frailty trap, 841 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:00,880 inertia trap. Sometimes it won't even matter 842 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,520 because you know, say they hit you with an arrow for five. 843 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,000 Now it becomes 4. But then you it's it's still a 844 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:07,320 break point. It has to go again and they get 845 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,640 a ponder anyway to negate the inertia trap you just played? 846 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,400 But do we? Do we like this design of taking 847 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,200 a reactive game plan and giving some proactivity to it? 848 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,120 I think it's a step in the in the direction. 849 00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,640 It's not obviously for every deck and it's catered towards 850 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:26,960 Trap Riptide especially. So I think Alice S did make a 851 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,640 successful card overall, kind of introducing this new archetype 852 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:34,680 of Trap Riptide and try to play more towards this second portion 853 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,840 of his hero ability. But I think eventually there 854 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:40,640 might be a card in the future that plays more towards his 855 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:42,360 first ability, which is the reload mechanic. 856 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,880 I feel like he has kind of this dual aspect of a defensive 857 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,080 mechanic and an offensive mechanic, similar to how Briar 858 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:49,920 plays. How Briar has this, you know, 859 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,880 offensive mechanic with Embodiment of Lightning, but she 860 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,760 also has this defensive mechanic with Embodiment of Earth. 861 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,320 So I think Riptide can kind of emulate that and with maybe more 862 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:03,160 support he can get there. Yeah, So it seems almost like a 863 00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:07,000 really great like base design, but he just hasn't been around a 864 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,800 long enough to see like multiple sets of like these expansion 865 00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:12,800 slots because this is the first expansion slot that we're 866 00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:17,440 getting from Flesh and Blood. So maybe a few more sets down 867 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:19,480 the line. He does like, you know, 868 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:23,920 capitalize more on the reload aspect because that in itself, 869 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,080 like not breaking the combat chain, could be extremely 870 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:28,760 relevant for future Riptide cards. 871 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,840 So we just like can't see because it's there's still an R. 872 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:36,280 And D or whatever. Now, is that kind of circling 873 00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,000 back a little bit to our red pitch here. 874 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,440 Do we think that that is a healthy mindset for us to have 875 00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:43,600 as players of these Lower 2 heroes? 876 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,400 Just wait, we're going to get our cards printed one of these 877 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,160 days and then we're going to be top of the pack. 878 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,240 Is that is that the right attitude that players should 879 00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:56,360 have? I mean, I'll start off because 880 00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,240 this was me for like 2 months leading a dust hold on, hold on 881 00:44:59,240 --> 00:45:01,320 and my I. Think more like years. 882 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:04,200 No, no, no, no. Literally since the inception of 883 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,120 my about flesh and blood career, I'm like just you fucking wait, 884 00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:11,520 boys, every Armory not save. Trust me, stay away from him. 885 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:13,640 And then it just kind of didn't happen. 886 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,520 Like, you know, Levia got like quote UN quote fixed, like you 887 00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,920 just don't straight up die at 13 life. 888 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,600 But what did what did it really do for the hero? 889 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,800 Like again, with my previous example, the one in 36 Levias 890 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:31,160 one or placed really high at these calling or Proquest. 891 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,240 But overall, the conversion rate for Leviah didn't change all 892 00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:38,400 that much. So it, you know, similar to 893 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,840 circling back to what you said, Clark, are what we've been 894 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,480 talking about as a whole. We have to kind of go back to 895 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:46,800 the drawing board to see like, OK, is there something we're 896 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,880 missing in the original release of Leviah's cards or the cards 897 00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,000 that were released like in supplemental sets? 898 00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,120 Is there something in Dusseldon we're just not, you know, 899 00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,680 combining in the right way with like the past cards. 900 00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:02,680 There's a lot to it, and I think as a whole, waiting for a new 901 00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:06,280 set to fix your hero, like you're just gonna set yourself 902 00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,720 up for a lot of frustration, which is what I've been 903 00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:11,120 experiencing in the past couple of months. 904 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,440 I think you are not. Only setting yourself up for 905 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:18,920 failure, but you're creating a conflict relationship with LSS. 906 00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:20,880 Yeah. When is LSS going to fix my 907 00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:22,480 hero? When is LSS going to do this 908 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:24,840 thing for me? And ultimately it's not their 909 00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,360 job to. At the end of the day, the only 910 00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,120 time we are going to have a perfectly balanced Flesh and 911 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:35,480 Blood game is when two people are playing the same hero with 912 00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,520 the same equipment, the same weapon, and the same cards and 913 00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:40,640 deck. That is the only time you will 914 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:42,720 have a perfectly fair game of Flesh and Blood. 915 00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,720 I recognize this analogy. You're talking about Fox Final 916 00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:48,240 Destination. No items only. 917 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,720 Yeah, that is exactly what I'm talking about. 918 00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:55,200 Until everything is exactly the same every single time and you 919 00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:57,240 run it over and over and over again. 920 00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,360 That's when you're going to remove all these extra 921 00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,800 variations and all this randomness and all this. 922 00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:06,920 That's what it's really going to be, only skill, right? 923 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,120 And that's not the game that we're playing. 924 00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,640 As long as you sit down with a different hero than the other 925 00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,000 person, it's going to be unbalanced. 926 00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:20,080 Right, that's so true. Yeah, I think success is, you 927 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,320 know, also measured by what tools you're given to, right? 928 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,640 Like how do you perform under these specific circumstances, 929 00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,720 like back against the wall and you with CNC in a really 930 00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:31,440 difficult spot, like how do you react? 931 00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,280 And you know, the better players will make the better decisions 932 00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,600 at that time for sure. And me personally, I think, you 933 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,000 know, going back to what you said about the lower hero, like, 934 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,040 should we just sit and wait? I, I recognize that Riptide is, 935 00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,680 you know, not as strong as some other heroes in the format 936 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:47,680 currently. And he's kind of like my pet 937 00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,400 deck. Would I bring him to say, worlds 938 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,800 if I was going? Probably not just because I want 939 00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:53,760 to be able to play a more powerful deck that can, you 940 00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:56,320 know, live up to standards against the majority of the 941 00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:58,200 meta, right. But I'm not going to sit here 942 00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:01,520 and kind of like, you know, complain that, you know, LSS, 943 00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:03,560 you should have given us a better specialization card. 944 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:04,840 You could have done all this stuff. 945 00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:08,000 It is kind of weird though, right, That, you know, Dromi, 946 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,240 for example, was this kind of weird example of a hero that was 947 00:48:11,240 --> 00:48:13,560 really bad into Phi when Phi was really strong. 948 00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,480 And then that sort of, you know, all the Dromi specialist kept 949 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,440 playing her, stayed threw her all this time. 950 00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,280 Phi gets nerfed and now she becomes super popular because 951 00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,480 she counters the best Lexi or has the best time to Lexi, and 952 00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,840 then now she gets her rewarded with a really good 953 00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:29,600 specialization card in Tome. So we've seen the other side of 954 00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,880 that coin where you can kind of like wait on this sort of new 955 00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,000 set to come out and you get rewarded with it too. 956 00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,720 So I think there's not a right answer for it in the end. 957 00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,280 I think, like, I think flesh and bud should just be played the 958 00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,560 way you enjoy playing it. Say, if you you like, you know, 959 00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:49,240 a lower tier hero, you shouldn't be measured by how well you do 960 00:48:49,240 --> 00:48:51,160 with that hero. Say, for example, you should be 961 00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:52,760 measured by how much, how fun you're having. 962 00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:55,800 Same way goes for a successful hero with, you know, a 963 00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:57,840 competitive person. So say you're playing Lexi to 964 00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,400 win, you should be measured not by how well you're doing, but 965 00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,000 because of how much fun you're having. 966 00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,680 And if winning is why you're having fun, then so be it, 967 00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:06,200 right? But you shouldn't be be dogging 968 00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,880 on someone because they're having fun trying out a lower 969 00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:10,200 tier hero. And not winning. 970 00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:11,720 I feel. So true. 971 00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:15,160 And that kind of circles back to our previous conversation about 972 00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:16,960 how to get more players into the game. 973 00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:24,640 I think if we sort of stop like like inherently dogging on these 974 00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,320 lower tier heroes and like that people want to play them, like I 975 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,120 think every hero is going to have a community that just like 976 00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:33,120 loves this fucking hero. Like, you know, they're Lexi and 977 00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,320 Joy is far, far before she was top of the meta for seven 978 00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:38,240 months. They'd like ice Lexi, they liked 979 00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:41,720 her control, like mid range play style and they had to adapt 980 00:49:41,720 --> 00:49:46,480 because their ice version was far outclassed by this more 981 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,200 aggressive art of war, like three of a kind version. 982 00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:53,720 And so, you know, for instance, when I'm playing Leviah, I I 983 00:49:53,720 --> 00:49:59,760 can't wait for LSS to make this hero broken, because the only 984 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:04,720 thing that's going to do is make the top players abuse the new 985 00:50:04,720 --> 00:50:09,520 power of this hero and probably get them LL quicker or probably 986 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,680 get a card band. Because like, if you were to get 987 00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:14,480 like your fear, like quote UN quote fixed. 988 00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,960 You have this really big power spike with these like over 989 00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:20,080 pushed cards. The only thing it's really going 990 00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,200 to contribute to is more pro players picking picking up your 991 00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:27,080 specific hero and getting them LL quicker or getting them, you 992 00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:30,120 know, specific cards banned. So really what your focus should 993 00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,680 be is like you said, Anthony, have more fun with it. 994 00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:34,640 You should be like, you know, putting reps into this here 995 00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,440 because it's your favorite hero and not because you're like on 996 00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:40,200 this weird binge of like, you know, OK, go down the list of 997 00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,320 heroes that could be like anti meta. 998 00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:45,840 Because what I really enjoy about flesh and blood and we see 999 00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:49,000 it time and time again is specialists are rewarded. 1000 00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:52,840 Like if you like really put in the time, figure out why this 1001 00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:57,360 hero is good into XYZ and either wait for like one or two push 1002 00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,000 cards to really help the strategy you're going for, or 1003 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,920 just figure out a way you can pivot in a way that for this 1004 00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:05,280 specific meta, you have a really good shot at winning your 1005 00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,480 armories, winning your proquest, whatever the case may be. 1006 00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,520 That way you have a bit more fun with the game and not don't get 1007 00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:15,280 like really frustrated or really like shut down when the support 1008 00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,360 that was supposed to save your hero just doesn't pan out that 1009 00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:20,880 way. And I think that was a really 1010 00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:22,880 great point. Something that I always think 1011 00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:27,040 about is when my heroes aren't doing well, that is an 1012 00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,680 opportunity. It's an opportunity to try 1013 00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,240 looking at the hero in a completely different way, right. 1014 00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,960 So like I've been testing OTK viscera and go tall viscera 1015 00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:41,000 because without Rosetta Thorne, the really nice go wide strategy 1016 00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:44,000 that we had been doing for months, it's not as good 1017 00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:45,720 anymore. And I don't want to play the 1018 00:51:45,720 --> 00:51:49,600 same Visser I that isn't as good and wasn't doing well in the 1019 00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:53,760 meta right before we lost it. So why not try something new? 1020 00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,880 Why not go way off the beaten path and try something new, 1021 00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:58,520 right? Bring it to your Armory, give it 1022 00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:00,560 a shot. Oh, it didn't work out well? 1023 00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:02,960 You had fun playing your hero in a new way. 1024 00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,760 Like I think that's a great way of approaching having a hero 1025 00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:08,440 that isn't doing well in the meta. 1026 00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,000 For sure. I think there's also the case of 1027 00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,280 a hero maybe getting too much support or going too far too. 1028 00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:18,960 I know Yuki, who's a prolific Lexi player in our community. 1029 00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:22,560 She's been talking about how she kind of misses Lexi, and she's 1030 00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:26,000 also quoted that, you know, when Lexi got her outsiders arrows 1031 00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,360 and you know, started straying away from these elemental cards 1032 00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,240 and just played straight arrows, rain razors, three of a kind. 1033 00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,680 It kind of got away from the flavor and how she enjoyed Lexi 1034 00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:36,760 herself, right? So I feel like sometimes the 1035 00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,640 support that makes your hero good and viable can kind of 1036 00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:43,880 stray away from what you like your hero to be, right? 1037 00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,600 Maybe like Riptide or whatever here, Levia because of her 1038 00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:51,360 flavor or her lore or her ability to do this X thing. 1039 00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:54,760 And now they've introduced a new way to play Levia that's just 1040 00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:57,040 like, more generic or a different way than you like. 1041 00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:58,440 Right. And then everyone's playing her 1042 00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,120 because she's good. And it's just kind of, you know, 1043 00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:01,360 straying away. Yeah. 1044 00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:02,480 Far away. You like. 1045 00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:03,400 Exactly. Yeah. 1046 00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:05,320 So there's like another flip side to that. 1047 00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:06,720 Right. Yeah that's so true. 1048 00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,960 I haven't had the pleasure of people wanting to play my hero 1049 00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:13,840 in masses cause all of my favorite heroes suck, but we'll 1050 00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:15,800 get to a point I'm sure. We have tried though. 1051 00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:18,440 I think they have for sure once when when Dustin came out. 1052 00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:21,560 I think Levia redeemed was like one of the coolest cards we've 1053 00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:23,080 ever for sure. Ohhh yeah, yeah. 1054 00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:25,200 And a lot of people did try that one. 1055 00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,040 That first event right after the Dusseldon, a lot of people 1056 00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:29,640 played Levia. Levia was one of the most played 1057 00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:33,840 decks and people realized she sucks like she uses to herself 1058 00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:34,840 so often. Yeah. 1059 00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:36,480 Yeah. And people just, like, saw it. 1060 00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:38,760 See, that's what happens when a new card gets introduced. 1061 00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:41,480 People think that she they're good or people kind of go 1062 00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,200 towards it because it's the new craziest thing. 1063 00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:45,600 And then now they realize, you know, there's a fundamental flaw 1064 00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:47,280 with this hero. There's a fundamental flaw in 1065 00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:49,160 how she plays. And they just scrap it right 1066 00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:50,920 away and they go back to whatever they're playing. 1067 00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,960 Yeah, right. I think it's about time for us 1068 00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:58,160 to move on to another topic for Blue Pitch. 1069 00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:02,360 We were going to talk about like what can be added to the game as 1070 00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,880 well as what underutilized cards specifically exist already. 1071 00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:09,640 Moving away from like heroes and deck archetypes that perhaps 1072 00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,880 could see more play and going into specific cards that maybe 1073 00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,560 haven't found the right home or do have the right home, we just 1074 00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:18,800 don't know about it. Yeah, this kind of ties into 1075 00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:22,840 what we briefly mentioned in red pitch, which was LSS every so 1076 00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:26,040 often going you guys haven't solved been set yet, you haven't 1077 00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:27,320 figured her out. You don't. 1078 00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:28,880 You don't know. What she can. 1079 00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:32,000 Do, but like, hasn't James White said the same thing about like 1080 00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:34,160 the potions in Everfest or something? 1081 00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:36,080 Like who's saying this earlier? Was that you, Anthony? 1082 00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:40,320 No, that was me. Wasn't that you, Joel? 1083 00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:46,080 Yeah, I, I've, I've heard at least once or twice from devs 1084 00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:49,560 that like, you know, we haven't fully explored or like a, a 1085 00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:52,960 specific set of cards or to pay attention to a specific type of 1086 00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:55,120 card. Like I remember not only with 1087 00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:59,480 Everfest, like all the items or like, you know, I feel like 1088 00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:02,520 every class kind of incorporated whatever support they got. 1089 00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:06,480 Like I think Dash got T-bone and like pulse wave harpoon, instant 1090 00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:08,960 slot in right swing, big over set to card. 1091 00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:09,720 Sweet. I'll take it. 1092 00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:12,080 Swarming Gloomvale. Swarming Gloomvale. 1093 00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:14,240 Yes, Thank you. Gloom blood and Revel and room 1094 00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:15,680 blood. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 1095 00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:19,360 So, you know, when a dev says like, oh, you guys haven't 1096 00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:21,880 really figured out everything in Everfest yet, I'm like, doesn't 1097 00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:23,760 that leave just like the talismans or the potions? 1098 00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:27,800 Like how do we look at this in the scope of like all the heroes 1099 00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:31,000 of flushing, but like how can each one individually use these 1100 00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:35,560 items in a like, for instance, you know, Briar ran one of them 1101 00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:39,120 for like a brief amount of time, like Talisman of Warfare, which 1102 00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:42,360 says if you, you know, deal exactly to damage, you destroy 1103 00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:45,840 both arsenals, which is like another CNC on your Rosetta 1104 00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:48,560 Thorn, which I thought was an insane tech from the person who 1105 00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:50,680 brought it. And I haven't really seen like 1106 00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:55,360 much more of that in other like top deck cliffs other than, you 1107 00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:57,680 know, Anthony with his crazy brew tech. 1108 00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:03,760 And another example I can think of before I pass it off to you 1109 00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:07,840 guys is when Dusseldon was coming out, another dev I think 1110 00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:13,080 was talking to Mansant and said pay attention to skull crack. 1111 00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:16,760 And me, I'm like skull crack. But most of the support had 1112 00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:20,120 nothing to do with discard effects. 1113 00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:23,440 So I, you know, think comments like that make me curious. 1114 00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:26,400 Like, man, there really is a lot of layers to this game that I'm 1115 00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:29,080 just not seeing that the devs have, like, you know, they have 1116 00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:31,640 full access to everything. So they're like, OK, just maybe 1117 00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:32,840 I should pay attention to this card. 1118 00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:34,200 Let's go back to the drawing board. 1119 00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:36,800 Pay attention to, you know, stuff that we haven't tried yet. 1120 00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:40,720 I think it's interesting because I think that whatever play 1121 00:56:40,720 --> 00:56:43,200 testing they're doing over there in New Zealand, I think they're 1122 00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:44,760 just trying to have fun with the game. 1123 00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:48,320 I think that they are trying. They like look at these cards 1124 00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:51,240 that aren't being played and then say, well, how can I build 1125 00:56:51,240 --> 00:56:54,040 a deck with this? And then they start from there 1126 00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:57,480 and it's a lot more creative. It's a lot more interesting and 1127 00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:01,440 exciting and I think it draws out more of the power of these 1128 00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:06,560 underutilized cards while we out here in the rest of the world at 1129 00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:08,920 our local armories, we're thinking, how do we get that 1130 00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:13,000 cold foil? How do I, how do I get that four 1131 00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:16,280 O on the weekend? That's what we care more about. 1132 00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:20,080 And so we're not looking to utilize these random tech cards. 1133 00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:24,360 We're looking to win games. And a lot of the times that 1134 00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,280 means that we can't invest a bunch of time in trying to spec 1135 00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:32,600 for these tech options. They're probably decent, but 1136 00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:37,000 also we're not. It's just not something that I 1137 00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:39,920 think we care about, really. Yeah. 1138 00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:42,560 I think like going back to the mini game thing, I think a lot 1139 00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:45,400 of cards out there are like supporting the sort of mini game 1140 00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,280 aspect. Like say I've got the name of 1141 00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:50,600 the card, but it's the one where if you pitch like a non attack 1142 00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:52,720 action and an attack action X effect happens. 1143 00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:56,200 Right, a cryptic crossing. There we go, a yellow 3 for six. 1144 00:57:56,200 --> 00:58:01,000 If you pitch a non attack action card and an attack action card, 1145 00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:03,920 it gains. When this hits, your opponent 1146 00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,240 discards a card and you draw a card. 1147 00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:10,000 There you go and then see if you do that in sort of a vacuum, 1148 00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,480 that seems really good, right? You're spending the all these 1149 00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:14,600 resources to be able to gain so many effects. 1150 00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:17,760 But then again, it's just easier to do damage. 1151 00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:20,440 It's easier to play this math game of instead of doing, you 1152 00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:23,920 know, three card, I draw a card potentially if you don't block 1153 00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:27,440 it and you also discard a card. I could also just give my Marvin 1154 00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,320 my shirtless skull form, go again and swing my weapon after 1155 00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:33,200 and make any chance right? Both both 3 cards. 1156 00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:35,400 Hard hands, but one of them's better, yeah. 1157 00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:38,080 Yeah, so I think that's just like this sort of simplified 1158 00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:40,360 math version of the game where you're just trying to pump out 1159 00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:42,840 the biggest numbers turn to turn to turn. 1160 00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:45,480 Whereas there's cards in the game that kind of kind of 1161 00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:48,840 support this mini game aspect of, hey, if you don't do this, 1162 00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,240 this this thing will happen. And then maybe that might 1163 00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:54,880 benefit me, maybe it might not. But I think for like general 1164 00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:57,920 deck building, general gameplay, people will always stray towards 1165 00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:00,080 like the easier line because it'll always work. 1166 00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:03,520 It'll always present X amount of damage rather than rely flying 1167 00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:06,240 on opponent blocking opponent variance to be able to do 1168 00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:07,320 something. For sure. 1169 00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:10,560 And there's an argument to be said like that time spent 1170 00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:13,760 testing these random items from Everfest or these cards that 1171 00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:16,720 nobody uses for good reason. And then you, you know, waste, 1172 00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:19,160 not wasted. But also, yeah, you wasted all 1173 00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:22,560 this time testing this card when you could be getting reps with 1174 00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:25,480 what is proven to be the better strategy. 1175 00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:32,720 Yeah, like a similar potion inside Everfest. 1176 00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:34,800 I'm not sure if it's a Talisman or a potion. 1177 00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:37,360 It's the one where if 2 cards have been played with the same 1178 00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,760 name, you can target hero discards. 2 cards I believe is 1179 00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:42,800 what the effect is. Amulet of Echoes. 1180 00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:45,560 Amulet of echoes There you go like that seems like an insanely 1181 00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:49,520 strong card, but like making it work is literally impossible 1182 00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:53,200 because like if you play it now, you you kind of represent this 1183 00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,320 like discard 2 in a certain moment of the game. 1184 00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:58,320 But say like the five has a brand with cinder claw, a red 1185 00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:00,320 and a blue. He's like, OK, I'll just instead 1186 01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:02,120 of playing the other brand, I'll just. 1187 01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:05,120 To searing Ember Blade you like opponents can play around these 1188 01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:08,880 potions down too. So I feel like there's there's 1189 01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:11,160 always like cool little things with these potions, but them 1190 01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:15,160 being like literal items on the arena public info and not 1191 01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:18,160 instant speed sort of shenanigans allows for them to 1192 01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,720 kind of play around it too. And that's such a situational 1193 01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:22,480 item too. Like not a lot of heroes play 2 1194 01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:25,440 cards of the same name and still have cards in their hand after. 1195 01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:28,560 At least it's blue, it has go again and the ability is an 1196 01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:31,080 instant so you don't have to spend any action points on this 1197 01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:32,680 card at all. Yeah. 1198 01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:35,920 Yeah, we did see some innovation from Talisman of Tights though 1199 01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:38,840 in the chain versus old, the meta where they were attempting 1200 01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:41,680 to counter a crown of seeds with Talisman of Tights to be able 1201 01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:44,320 to, you know, kind of have the static item on the board and 1202 01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:46,600 prevent the next time they crown seeds, they won't be able to 1203 01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:48,280 draw that card from Crown of Seeds. 1204 01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:51,720 So there is like some potential and it was kind of like showed 1205 01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:54,400 showcased in chain with Talisman of Tights. 1206 01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:56,960 But I feel like most of the items are kind of hyper 1207 01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:58,320 situational. Yeah. 1208 01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:01,120 Whereas you know that that card is also hyper situational, but 1209 01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:04,480 it had that sort of static effect on a very popular hill at 1210 01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:05,840 the time with Crannys Seed Oldham. 1211 01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:08,440 Right. And so Anthony, would you say 1212 01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:14,720 that like, would it be better or worse if that effect on an item 1213 01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:18,000 was made into either a generic equipment or an instantly you 1214 01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:19,800 could play from hand as a response? 1215 01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:23,320 Like does that become more like counterspell or like hand trap 1216 01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:25,880 from Yu-gi-oh? Or does that become just like an 1217 01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:31,120 overly like oppressive hate card for this specific strategy in an 1218 01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:32,120 equipment? Like where? 1219 01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:34,040 Where's the middle ground here, if there is any? 1220 01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:37,000 Yeah, I think sort of this sort of mini game like Counterspell, 1221 01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:41,240 like you were mentioning, Joel is the card, Blizzard of the ice 1222 01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:44,360 card that you have to pay 2 or you lose, go again on a specific 1223 01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:46,120 attack. It's sort of this like instant 1224 01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:48,160 speed. You don't really, your opponent 1225 01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:50,520 doesn't really know you have it. You can just kind of play it out 1226 01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:51,960 there. So it's kind of this like 1227 01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:53,600 finicky tool. It doesn't work in all 1228 01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:55,560 scenarios, right? Sometimes Bravo just throws a 1229 01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:57,080 big attack at you. Blizzard doesn't do anything. 1230 01:01:57,080 --> 01:01:59,960 It doesn't block, do anything. It's sort of like an Everfest 1231 01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:03,000 potion in itself where you kind of play at a specific moment and 1232 01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:05,760 it has specific matchup cases. Like, it's really good against 1233 01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:08,040 Ninja, it's really good against Room Blade, but it's not good 1234 01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:09,920 against all decks that swing just once. 1235 01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:12,440 Right, that's interesting you say that that, you know, it is 1236 01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:15,480 already an example of how these items can be turned into hand 1237 01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:17,240 traps. So maybe they're not as 1238 01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:20,640 oppressive or as like unhealthy to the game as we originally 1239 01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:24,200 thought because, you know, Blizzard has shut down many of 1240 01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:27,000 turns of mine. But still, you know, like you 1241 01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:30,000 said, other decks will just like completely, completely ignore it 1242 01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:32,280 and will punish you for having said card because it doesn't 1243 01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:33,680 block. At least it pitches, you know, 1244 01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:37,720 for for blue, right? Yeah, It also being an ice card, 1245 01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:41,840 it also being a blue and especially with how much our ice 1246 01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:47,560 heroes cared about blue ice cards, I think it just the fact 1247 01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:51,520 that all of that was going for it gave it the ubiquitousness 1248 01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:53,520 that I think could be concerned about. 1249 01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:58,800 But also just the fact that it has the the counter play to it. 1250 01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,200 You can pay to to ignore the effect. 1251 01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:05,160 I think that's good. I think LSS also just cares a 1252 01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:10,360 little bit or they just see more value in being able to set up 1253 01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:14,760 for something like I just a trend that I've noticed across 1254 01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:20,400 cards is that they seem to highly value the ability to set 1255 01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:25,600 up and then take back the tempo, while players don't like that as 1256 01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:29,840 much because setting up doesn't affect the board state. 1257 01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:32,480 Going back to what we were saying with our acne, if I'm not 1258 01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,280 impacting your hand, if I'm not pressuring your life total, 1259 01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:38,840 making you want to block, making you want to use your equipment 1260 01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:43,600 on defense, then I am not getting closer to winning, even 1261 01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:47,400 if setting up could help me do that on a later turn. 1262 01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:50,080 And I think that's where maybe there's a disconnect between 1263 01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:53,520 what LSS is saying and what the community is feeling in our 1264 01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:56,320 games. We don't want to set up because 1265 01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:59,640 setting up doesn't do anything that turn. 1266 01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:01,720 We're thinking more turn by turn. 1267 01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:04,640 And when we talk about how good Lexi was competitively, it was 1268 01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:08,760 because Lexi was pumping out 1516 damage every single turn. 1269 01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:11,880 And if you can do that every single turn, you're going to win 1270 01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,680 the game. And I, I think Anthony also 1271 01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:16,120 touched on it a little bit earlier. 1272 01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:19,400 He was saying, you know, this flushing butt is a very tempo 1273 01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:23,120 centric game and setting up often means I'm going to give up 1274 01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:25,680 a little bit of tempo to maybe steal it back later. 1275 01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:29,960 But you're still giving your opponent a chance to open up the 1276 01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:31,840 game completely and, and change its hide. 1277 01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:35,040 And also with flushing butt, they really do like this setup 1278 01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:38,840 mechanic or like this setup strategy in the in the form of 1279 01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:41,520 these like storage mechanics. But again, I think it's really 1280 01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:44,320 counterintuitive because you're giving up a lot of tempo. 1281 01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:47,840 And the more pushed card we get, the more that aggregates tools 1282 01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:51,680 to like push the meta or mid range deck or control deck get 1283 01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:53,240 like some sort of footing in the game. 1284 01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:57,040 Then it kind of like, you know, befuddles everything you were 1285 01:04:57,040 --> 01:04:59,680 trying to do with, you know, setting up this like power play 1286 01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:02,600 later. And yet we have seen archetypes 1287 01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:07,280 succeed with it, most notably Kano and OTK Visserai with 1288 01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:11,400 skeleton, right? Both of them being, oh, I'm just 1289 01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:14,520 going to set up the entire game and then I'm going to have one 1290 01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:16,880 turn where I deal 50 plus damage and I'm going to win. 1291 01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:21,840 So that's when it's good for us. But we've also seen that be 1292 01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:25,400 toxic gameplay. So I think that's going to have 1293 01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:27,840 to be something else is going to have to solve for sure. 1294 01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,280 Yeah, I think like also mentioned that like the the 1295 01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:35,040 weaker side of setting up to like all these guardian sort of 1296 01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:37,840 non attack actions that say, hey, I'm going to play this and 1297 01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:39,440 it ends my turn. But next year and I'm going to 1298 01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:43,480 get +8 like 10 + 10 like towering Titan to my to my 1299 01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:45,800 whatever attack, right. Like Crippling Quest for 21 1300 01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:49,160 sounds really good in a vacuum, but you have to pitch 3 Blues 1301 01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:50,800 the term before you're not hitting your opponent, and then 1302 01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:53,600 you also have to have the Blues after to swing crippling crush 1303 01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:56,080 and completely try to ignore what your opponent's trying to 1304 01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:58,440 do in the middle stage of whatever's happening. 1305 01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:00,080 Right. So any disruption? 1306 01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:02,040 Yeah, it's like the CNC and it's. 1307 01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:06,440 Yeah, the towering Titan pops and you go cool, cool, Arsenal. 1308 01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:09,600 Pass yeah, not only did you waste if the like the 1309 01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:12,280 disruption, the disruption happens like you say, not only 1310 01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:14,840 did you just waste one turn, you just wasted two turns Yeah, 1311 01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:17,160 right. So there's definitely storage 1312 01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:19,160 mechanics and kind of set up mechanics that definitely 1313 01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:22,280 backfire more often. But there's easier ones to do, 1314 01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:25,160 like K&O with E pots and just like waiting for that opportune 1315 01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:28,600 time when an opponent taps out, or Viscera with the old skeleton 1316 01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:31,320 building up rune chance, sort of making this critical mass of 1317 01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:33,240 damage that you can't block at all. 1318 01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:35,800 Yeah. So I think there's definitely 1319 01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:39,560 toxic ways to store like sort of like resources, but there's also 1320 01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:43,080 really, really bad ways to store resources like guardians non 1321 01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:45,160 attack actions. For sure, and I think that's 1322 01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:48,200 why, you know, Guardian has often strayed away from this 1323 01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:50,320 game plan. Like they're very like focus on 1324 01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:54,280 the math, focus on getting your, you know, a no, those swings to 1325 01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:56,360 make sure that you're spending the least amount of cards in 1326 01:06:56,360 --> 01:07:00,720 deck and then play towards your larger like disruptive terms 1327 01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:02,640 with the correct amount of Blues to disrupt. 1328 01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:06,800 And yeah. So we we don't see a lot of like 1329 01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:09,960 those non attacks unless it's like the very first turn to set 1330 01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:12,680 up like something really disgusting once you have the the 1331 01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:15,120 tempo again. And yet there are some really 1332 01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:19,200 fascinating auras out there that provide you some really intense 1333 01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:22,880 abilities, like plus one intellect or gaining lots of 1334 01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:25,440 life for giving all of your equipment plus one block. 1335 01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:28,320 Like there are some really strong auras out there, but 1336 01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:32,080 because they don't quite fit the way that we think the hero 1337 01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:34,160 should be played, we're like not using. 1338 01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:39,720 And LSS, one thing I do like about this LSS play where 1339 01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:41,920 they're like constantly looking at the underutilized cards, it 1340 01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:46,040 means that when they print new things, they're thinking, does 1341 01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:48,400 it bring these old cards into the spotlight in a way that 1342 01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:53,080 might be toxic and unhealthy? And I think that that is very 1343 01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:55,360 good. I am happy that LSS thinks about 1344 01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:57,080 that. There is a card in the game 1345 01:07:57,080 --> 01:07:59,080 where I'm was really excited about. 1346 01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:02,760 It's called Life of the party. As you know, one of my favorite 1347 01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:05,200 cards of all time is crazy Brew and they printed this sort of 1348 01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:07,480 card that interacts with crazy Brew where, you know, you get 1349 01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:10,160 all these stats of crazy brew built into the cart. 1350 01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:12,760 So I feel like that's just an example of, you know, Alice's 1351 01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:15,120 looking at older cards and being like, hey, let's print out this 1352 01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:17,800 thing that might, you know, affect this potion or this sort 1353 01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,399 of permanent or item. So I think it could be, you 1354 01:08:20,399 --> 01:08:22,920 know, a sign that things might be headed that way, where 1355 01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:25,720 something might interact with Potion of Ironhide, for example, 1356 01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:29,200 say, say, yeah, a guardian might like, hey, if you have Potion of 1357 01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:32,000 Ironhide out, you can fuse it with your shield and now you 1358 01:08:32,279 --> 01:08:35,880 block with like +2 and on all your guardian attack action 1359 01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:38,279 cards. So I mean, there's future design 1360 01:08:38,279 --> 01:08:39,840 space that could be had with these potions, right? 1361 01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:41,720 They're all generic too. So that means that's a very 1362 01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:44,160 important part in my opinion, because every hero can use them, 1363 01:08:44,399 --> 01:08:45,080 right? Yeah. 1364 01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:47,319 And I think that's why they're intentionally weak at the 1365 01:08:47,319 --> 01:08:50,760 moment, because they kind of want to keep this design space 1366 01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:53,880 open to be, you know, kind of applicable to multiple heroes 1367 01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:54,600 down the line. Right. 1368 01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:57,760 You want to savor it and spread it out over years of gameplay 1369 01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:01,160 and not have like, and I feel that way about like the first 1370 01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:04,200 two sets being Monarch in Tales of Aria. 1371 01:09:04,359 --> 01:09:09,040 I wonder how well they would perform if we had quicker 1372 01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:12,800 releases or or less time in between sets so that these like, 1373 01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:17,359 you know, decks interact with each other longer and maybe find 1374 01:09:17,359 --> 01:09:21,359 like counter strategies across multiple different decks. 1375 01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:24,160 Maybe starvote like doesn't do as well if it's like chain is 1376 01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:27,200 like blowing them out, right, or vice versa or prism like deals 1377 01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:29,040 with both of them pretty cleanly. 1378 01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:31,600 And there's a strategy that deals like, you know, that that 1379 01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:34,479 stuff I would have liked to see. But again, they were just coming 1380 01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:37,279 out of a pandemic. And like you said, Anthony, I 1381 01:09:37,279 --> 01:09:39,800 think they're moving in a really good direction where the we're, 1382 01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:44,279 we're getting more options and kind of revitalizing the old 1383 01:09:44,279 --> 01:09:49,080 card pool so that when these 15 new heroes come out, not one of 1384 01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:52,040 them are going to be like super oppressive that we don't have 1385 01:09:52,040 --> 01:09:57,400 the tools to to deal with them. Yeah, I want to shift us into 1386 01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:01,160 probably the last big topic that we're going to have for this 1387 01:10:01,160 --> 01:10:04,960 episode. What aspects of the game could 1388 01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:11,320 we add to improve playing these lower tier heroes? 1389 01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:16,440 What can we do structurally, maybe even like card wise? 1390 01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:21,160 What can we do to make playing lower tier heroes more fun, more 1391 01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:23,640 accessible, Help them win a little bit more without just 1392 01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:25,960 straight handing them a zero for 10? 1393 01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:31,160 But are we above that? I'm above that. 1394 01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:35,960 I would never sign on to printing a zero for 10, even in 1395 01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:38,400 our little crazy little custom card world. 1396 01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:41,600 Never, Fucking never. I would not live with. 1397 01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:46,240 I could not How? About a six for a 13 Shannon, is 1398 01:10:46,240 --> 01:10:49,240 that what Shannon? Yeah, Oath of the Ninth Blade 1399 01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:49,680 or. Whatever. 1400 01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:51,600 Yeah, Yeah. Isn't that a zero for 13? 1401 01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:52,440 Yeah. No that. 1402 01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:55,080 For nine times. Zero for 9 ninth blade. 1403 01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:58,120 I should have done that, but actually not quite a zero for 1404 01:10:58,120 --> 01:10:59,240 10. My bad. 1405 01:10:59,240 --> 01:11:06,040 Surely it's a nine for 9:00. True, Yeah, I think an 1406 01:11:06,040 --> 01:11:10,440 interesting way to do it would be adding more games per match. 1407 01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:13,520 I know that classic constructor does take 55 minutes, sometimes 1408 01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:18,000 even more and untimed matches in in Final cut, but sort of this 1409 01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:21,560 best of three, best of X format where you kind of play an 1410 01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:24,840 initial game to kind of feel out your opponent and then now you 1411 01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:27,600 get to re hit the same, you know, deck with different 1412 01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:30,240 sideboard strategies. I think that's a a very integral 1413 01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:34,000 way of kind of introducing more counter play in terms of like 1414 01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:36,520 deck building and just kind of sideboarding. 1415 01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:38,800 Like Riptide would probably benefit from that a little bit 1416 01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:43,000 just because you don't know what version of the deck your 1417 01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:45,240 opponent's playing. And after kind of sussing it out 1418 01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:47,600 a little bit, kind of figuring it out, Oh, I figured out that 1419 01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:50,240 they play a lot of buffs. So now inertia trap is good, 1420 01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:53,280 buzz saw trap is good. These are definite cards that 1421 01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:55,640 I'll run in my deck. I'll take out, you know, the non 1422 01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:59,000 relevant trap. So I think like in a way, we 1423 01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:02,800 were able to add a best of X format without making matches 1424 01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:06,280 take three hours. That would be a very good way to 1425 01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:09,560 implement the game maybe. Yeah, I totally agree. 1426 01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:13,520 There are heroes that seem to have a defensive like idea built 1427 01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:15,720 in. Like take like Arachne for 1428 01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:18,840 example, who like doesn't feel like he was designed to play a 1429 01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:21,080 full 5 card hand. He was designed to have like 1430 01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:22,960 some defensive components built in. 1431 01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:26,480 And like Riptide being a probably even a better example 1432 01:12:26,480 --> 01:12:29,160 of this, where if you know what you're going up against, you 1433 01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:32,440 know what you're sideboarding against, it really helps a lot 1434 01:12:32,440 --> 01:12:33,920 if you're planning on playing defence. 1435 01:12:34,040 --> 01:12:35,480 What D reacts are they bringing in? 1436 01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:39,360 How many of them you know? Now, would this also come with 1437 01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:43,120 an increased inventory? Space, it probably would like 1438 01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:46,240 you would probably see a little bit more of a Cyborg strategy. 1439 01:12:46,440 --> 01:12:49,920 Maybe I like the the old blitz or is it yeah, the old Blitz 1440 01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:52,760 idea where you had X amount of inventory that could be that 1441 01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:55,120 could be like implemented in CC where you kind of, you know, 1442 01:12:55,120 --> 01:12:57,320 have X amount of playable cards that you can play under your 1443 01:12:57,320 --> 01:12:59,600 deck, but you can only have these many equipments. 1444 01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:02,840 So maybe we implement some sort of strategy there, say like a 1445 01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:07,240 best of three CC where you have, you know, 80 cards or, you know, 1446 01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:09,920 some arbitrary number of cards in your main deck and but you 1447 01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:12,400 only can have like 10 equipment and that's it. 1448 01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:14,400 And you can sideboard that however you'd like. 1449 01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:17,920 And then now you're opening up so much, you know, card play and 1450 01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:20,360 say like, I'm playing Riptide and you're not presenting a lot 1451 01:13:20,360 --> 01:13:22,160 of go again. I take out all my frailty traps, 1452 01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:24,800 my my collapsing trap. I put in all my buff traps 1453 01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:27,320 because you're playing a lot of nimble isms, minimalism, stuff 1454 01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:29,080 like that. Yeah, And you know, something 1455 01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:33,320 that I've read in a few of the LSS articles as well is that I 1456 01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:36,000 think they're shifting the design space away from like 1457 01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:41,920 fatigue as a hero design and more so as like specific 1458 01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:45,440 strategy against a hero. Like for instance, against dash, 1459 01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:49,080 I'm if I can't out damage them, there's a good chance that I can 1460 01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:51,360 probably fatigue them while they're trying to boost their 1461 01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:55,120 their deck away. And so that might help with the 1462 01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:58,760 like overall time of CC matches. Like maybe we see a world where 1463 01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:02,960 it gets dumbed down to like, you know, 35 to 45 minutes per game. 1464 01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:06,960 And so that we can squeeze in these best of three matches and 1465 01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:10,480 see more hero expression and get that second chance, like in case 1466 01:14:10,480 --> 01:14:13,640 you get like blown out or like as a Leviah player, that sounds 1467 01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:16,240 sick. Because now I'm rolling more 1468 01:14:16,240 --> 01:14:19,640 dice per game. And the changes of me like when 1469 01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:21,960 I'm forced to roll scabskin Leathers that I don't get 1470 01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:25,840 absolutely boned and lose my only shot at, you know, winning 1471 01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:27,240 the match. Even though like because I've 1472 01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:31,080 lost many games where I'm fucking steamrolling, I'm making 1473 01:14:31,080 --> 01:14:33,600 these plays, I'm pitch stacking. I got 2 recklesses right? 1474 01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:39,360 And I am forced to play, I'm forced to roll scabs in the 1475 01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:41,960 Leathers because like, I don't know, I have to clear like an 1476 01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:45,800 aura with Spectra or something and I hit that fucking one or I 1477 01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:47,840 get no action points. I'm like, OK, whatever, I'll 1478 01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:50,240 just like continue. But you know, things like that I 1479 01:14:50,240 --> 01:14:53,800 think would help with a lot of the randomness and variance that 1480 01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:58,240 is so present in TCGS and like more damning in Flesh and Blood 1481 01:14:58,240 --> 01:15:02,320 more so than other games. Yeah, I think also like it's a 1482 01:15:02,520 --> 01:15:05,080 we we do talk about this best of three format, but I think Flesh 1483 01:15:05,080 --> 01:15:07,240 and Blood is actually one of the lowest variance card games out 1484 01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:10,280 there and actually feels pretty decent to play in this one best 1485 01:15:10,280 --> 01:15:12,920 of one format because it feels like a such a fair game. 1486 01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:15,640 Whereas in other games like Magic and Pokémon, it's best of 1487 01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:18,600 three because these one V1 games don't feel very consistent. 1488 01:15:18,600 --> 01:15:20,800 You draw different cards, you can hit your land, you don't hit 1489 01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:22,680 your energies. Whereas in Flesh and Blood it 1490 01:15:22,680 --> 01:15:24,840 just feels like a consistent game because of the pitch system 1491 01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:27,800 and the way the cards cycle through your deck faster and you 1492 01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:29,320 can see more of your power cards. 1493 01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:32,880 So it feels like best of 1 is a pretty, pretty good spot for 1494 01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:34,600 this. But maybe we can introduce it in 1495 01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:37,520 some sort of blitz format where blitz is kind of like faster 1496 01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:39,600 game mode, 20 health. There's more variance because if 1497 01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:41,400 you hit a power turn, you probably killing your opponent. 1498 01:15:41,680 --> 01:15:44,480 So maybe we introduce it in blitz where you play a best 1499 01:15:44,480 --> 01:15:47,680 three of blitz, you get the sideboard in between matches as 1500 01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:49,520 well, and it's just faster gameplay. 1501 01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:52,400 So it doesn't feel so stale. Going back to the idea of like, 1502 01:15:52,400 --> 01:15:54,880 you know, an unfair advantage in terms of deck building. 1503 01:15:55,120 --> 01:15:57,880 You can make these armies draft events and then draft events 1504 01:15:57,880 --> 01:16:00,120 really help the game because everyone's kind of at this sort 1505 01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:02,880 of level playing field where they have, you know, draft 1506 01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:05,360 decks, you know, 40 cards, say for bright lights, for example, 1507 01:16:05,360 --> 01:16:07,480 everyone has 40 cards full of MEC cards. 1508 01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:09,880 And I really like bright lights because if you're new to deck 1509 01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:11,960 building, it doesn't matter because you have 40 MEC cards. 1510 01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:14,000 So it doesn't matter if your deck's bad or good, you're still 1511 01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:18,040 a MEC, you can still play a MEC. So I think that's cool, a really 1512 01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:19,760 cool story. He is one of our locals at King 1513 01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:21,840 Slayer. He came in playing Flesh and 1514 01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:24,680 Blood for the first time ever, and he came to draft and he went 1515 01:16:24,680 --> 01:16:27,200 2-1 in his pod and he was really ecstatic about it. 1516 01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:28,720 He's really happy. He's like, yeah, this game is 1517 01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:30,520 really cool. Like he had a lot of magic 1518 01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:33,400 experience, but he kind of like took all he knew about card 1519 01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:36,760 games, put it into draft and like he was able to play. 1520 01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:39,200 Opponents of, you know, that have played Flesh and Blood 1521 01:16:39,200 --> 01:16:41,920 longer than him, but now they're on the sort of equal playing 1522 01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:44,600 field where, you know, everyone's drafting and playing 1523 01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:48,600 the same sort of level deck instead of, you know, winning by 1524 01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:51,600 just having C and CS. And then now he was able to 1525 01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:54,120 apply his own knowledge and go to one in that Armory. 1526 01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:56,920 So I think draft it might be a step in the right direction 1527 01:16:56,920 --> 01:16:58,960 where, you know, you don't have to build a deck, you don't have 1528 01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:00,800 to pay all this money to come play. 1529 01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:03,000 You can just come pay for the packs and then just have a good 1530 01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:04,320 time. Yeah, yeah. 1531 01:17:04,440 --> 01:17:08,000 And this might be like a really like logistical nightmare, which 1532 01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:09,520 is like my Forte. I love coming up with 1533 01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:13,200 complicated ideas. But if like Kingsler games also 1534 01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:18,280 had like, you know, CC decks like for rent, like if you if 1535 01:17:18,280 --> 01:17:22,560 you come in like maybe like a limit of like 8 or 16, right? 1536 01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:26,160 And at the beginning you each get like a random CC deck. 1537 01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:28,200 No legendary is like common equipment. 1538 01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:29,360 Like maybe it's just commoner right? 1539 01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:33,120 They pass out commoner decks, but CC more so than blitz, cuz 1540 01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:37,240 I'm always going to say CC is a great tool to learn because you 1541 01:17:37,240 --> 01:17:41,840 have more pivot turns and just longer times to make decisions 1542 01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:43,760 that impact the game. And, and not like blitz were 1543 01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:45,320 like three turns and it's over, right. 1544 01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:46,760 Yeah. So if there's something like 1545 01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:50,560 that where you could like, you know, either rent a deck or just 1546 01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:54,200 pass out random deck. So like there's no like onus on 1547 01:17:54,200 --> 01:17:59,480 the player to like, you know, attack for the like Armory 1548 01:17:59,480 --> 01:18:02,400 killers or there's no like pressure on the new player to 1549 01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:05,400 like make a heavy investment. They can just come here, play. 1550 01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:11,200 And Kingslayer actually was my very first store that I played 1551 01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:15,120 at and I actually went to a draft to welcome to race draft. 1552 01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:21,200 And I that was like one of the best experiences I had, you 1553 01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:22,960 know, starting out with flash and blood. 1554 01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:25,800 And I think that's what kept me playing for a long time. 1555 01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:30,560 Like I remember I was playing the worst Darinthia deck I've 1556 01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:33,120 ever drafted but was still having fun cuz everyone there 1557 01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:34,480 was really nice. They were teaching me how to 1558 01:18:34,480 --> 01:18:38,240 play things like that. So exposing that side of the LGS 1559 01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:42,640 and the Armory experience is gonna make this game explode for 1560 01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:45,280 capital players. And I do, I do like that 1561 01:18:45,280 --> 01:18:46,880 suggestion of like the decks for rent. 1562 01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:50,000 I actually think that'd be a pretty cool thing for LG s s to 1563 01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:52,280 do. But then it's still on the LG s 1564 01:18:52,280 --> 01:18:54,760 s to put those decks together and put them out. 1565 01:18:54,760 --> 01:18:57,440 And you know, there's going to be that one guy that's like, Oh 1566 01:18:57,440 --> 01:18:59,560 yeah, I know that you're playing the drone my deck. 1567 01:18:59,560 --> 01:19:03,720 So I'm so like, I specifically brought Phi to like beat you so 1568 01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:05,360 I could at least get a pack back. 1569 01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:06,560 And it's like, dude, why are you? 1570 01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:09,800 Why are you being a killer to the guy who just joined? 1571 01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:15,480 But I that it, that's all great doesn't help me. 1572 01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:19,480 I want to bring my fancy little brews, my shitty little decks 1573 01:19:19,480 --> 01:19:23,360 that I'm designing and I want to bring those to tournaments and 1574 01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:26,720 possibly do well. And maybe that's just me asking 1575 01:19:26,720 --> 01:19:30,040 for too much. I would. 1576 01:19:30,120 --> 01:19:34,600 I would like to be able to play my B tier and C tier heroes and 1577 01:19:34,600 --> 01:19:37,600 still possibly when in Armory and just having an event where 1578 01:19:37,600 --> 01:19:40,040 we're like, hey, don't bring your killer decks. 1579 01:19:40,920 --> 01:19:43,600 I think that would still be nice to have in the way that Friday 1580 01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:48,080 Night Magic is like, yeah, you don't bring your Tier 1 stuff, 1581 01:19:48,080 --> 01:19:49,440 man. This is just for us to get 1582 01:19:49,440 --> 01:19:52,240 together and hang out. Sweet, yeah I agree. 1583 01:19:52,240 --> 01:19:54,280 Like I think a casual night would be very fun. 1584 01:19:54,520 --> 01:19:57,840 Kind of like a night where only X amount of heroes are allowed. 1585 01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:00,520 That would be pretty cool. Going back to your idea, Joe, I 1586 01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:03,560 know it's not technically announced yet, but we are 1587 01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:06,560 working on some sort of system to kind of, we realized in 1588 01:20:06,560 --> 01:20:10,680 Magic, one of our best selling Magic products is precons 1589 01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:13,120 because it's super easy. Commander precons especially 1590 01:20:13,120 --> 01:20:15,280 people come in and say, hey, my friend told me about commander. 1591 01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:17,000 I played it one time with his deck. 1592 01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:19,200 I want to make my own. I want to, you know, buy my own. 1593 01:20:19,440 --> 01:20:21,560 So commander precons are cool because it lists like, you know, 1594 01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:24,280 the commander on top and then all they do and then kind of 1595 01:20:24,280 --> 01:20:26,040 like you can look up the deck list and stuff like that. 1596 01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:28,320 So we realized the success it has in Magic. 1597 01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:30,720 So we're kind of starting. To curate products from our own 1598 01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:35,400 bulk in terms of constructed classic constructed precons. 1599 01:20:35,560 --> 01:20:37,840 Oh wow. That aren't blitz because it's 1600 01:20:37,840 --> 01:20:40,280 hard to kind of, at least in Socal. 1601 01:20:40,280 --> 01:20:43,720 This is totally a Socal problem. Say like hey you want to get 1602 01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:45,400 into the game? Buy one of these blitz precons 1603 01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:47,800 that no one will ever host events for because all we care 1604 01:20:47,800 --> 01:20:51,160 about here is classic constructed and sometimes draft 1605 01:20:51,160 --> 01:20:53,320 when skirmishes come around and sometimes blitz. 1606 01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:55,320 You know those decks are also so bad. 1607 01:20:55,320 --> 01:21:00,080 My first experience playing this game was the Bolton precon deck 1608 01:21:00,360 --> 01:21:05,440 and I remember going OK I play this card and then I charge OK 1609 01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:08,040 and then it has go again. No, it only has go again if I 1610 01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:09,400 block with an attack action card. 1611 01:21:09,480 --> 01:21:14,120 Oh OK, so take three. Yeah, present 12. 1612 01:21:14,240 --> 01:21:15,720 And it's like, what the fuck am I doing? 1613 01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:19,480 How do I win this game? Yeah, and it is like, you know, 1614 01:21:19,480 --> 01:21:23,040 they're super like beginner friendly, but I feel like I also 1615 01:21:23,040 --> 01:21:25,920 made some pre cons in the store for Blitz just so that people 1616 01:21:25,920 --> 01:21:28,880 can kind of feel what get a taste of what it feels like to 1617 01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:31,840 play a more higher power game. So I made Dromi and Phi with 1618 01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:34,760 more rares in the deck. So more Dragons for for Dromi, 1619 01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:37,800 right, And more like go again, cards that have lava bursts in 1620 01:21:37,800 --> 01:21:40,600 there, salt the wound in there. So those cards, I, I always 1621 01:21:40,600 --> 01:21:42,720 recommend those to like players that are kind of more 1622 01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:44,960 competitive because they want to kind of feel like the power 1623 01:21:44,960 --> 01:21:47,160 levels of, you know, flesh and blood back and forth. 1624 01:21:47,160 --> 01:21:49,000 Right, right. It also helps them play against 1625 01:21:49,000 --> 01:21:52,080 the people at the store who have the established decks. 1626 01:21:52,080 --> 01:21:54,960 Yeah, which is super good. The Tulare Community College 1627 01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:57,880 YouTube channel, the professor has talked about this in Magic 1628 01:21:57,880 --> 01:22:01,960 forever and he lauded the magic product of the pioneer deck 1629 01:22:01,960 --> 01:22:06,280 because he goes you're putting full play sets of good mythic 1630 01:22:06,280 --> 01:22:08,920 rares. That is so important for the 1631 01:22:08,920 --> 01:22:13,040 game. And when he collaborated with 1632 01:22:13,040 --> 01:22:15,760 LSS, they came out with around the table and people are going, 1633 01:22:15,760 --> 01:22:21,600 whoa, full play sets of good rares and majestics and people 1634 01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:24,000 love that product and they ended up and they bought a bunch. 1635 01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:28,760 So hopefully that's a big lesson for LSS and that they start to 1636 01:22:28,760 --> 01:22:32,720 produce beginner. Products at a much higher power 1637 01:22:32,720 --> 01:22:34,200 level than what we've seen so far. 1638 01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:37,360 Yeah, I love that and that that's really exciting about, 1639 01:22:37,480 --> 01:22:38,960 you know, Kingsley doing the pre cons. 1640 01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:43,120 I think a lot of people have been bringing new players to 1641 01:22:43,400 --> 01:22:46,640 Kingsley recently. So this like new attempt to get 1642 01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:50,600 people a taste of like the CC power, the blitz power is really 1643 01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:52,320 exciting. And I think I would even go just 1644 01:22:52,320 --> 01:22:54,680 to like, you know, like Clark said, just to play with 1645 01:22:54,680 --> 01:22:58,040 something different that's not completely worried about about 1646 01:22:58,040 --> 01:22:59,560 the meta. Yeah, and that's pretty cool 1647 01:22:59,560 --> 01:23:02,000 too, because it opens avenues to like maybe you know, with the 1648 01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:05,200 sealed blitz deck events, maybe we do just like a Class A pre 1649 01:23:05,200 --> 01:23:07,920 con CC deck where you can only use our decks. 1650 01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:09,360 Yeah, yeah. Oh, that'd be fun. 1651 01:23:09,360 --> 01:23:11,480 Yeah, and then you can only use like these lower power level 1652 01:23:11,480 --> 01:23:13,080 decks, but everyone's on the same playing field. 1653 01:23:13,280 --> 01:23:16,040 So maybe you're not having these crazy 30 damage turns, but you 1654 01:23:16,040 --> 01:23:17,760 know, you're all on the same level playing field. 1655 01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:21,120 You're kind of having equal amounts of power, so it might be 1656 01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:23,440 a little bit more fair than the guy that doesn't have the money 1657 01:23:23,440 --> 01:23:26,080 for 3E strikes 3 CNCS yet. For sure, for sure. 1658 01:23:26,120 --> 01:23:28,320 You know those those preconstructed decks offered by 1659 01:23:28,320 --> 01:23:31,960 LGS is another incredible thing about them is I swear this isn't 1660 01:23:31,960 --> 01:23:34,440 an ad for King Slayer games. King Slayer games is great. 1661 01:23:34,440 --> 01:23:38,160 I love the shop, but just I'm legitimately just thinking of 1662 01:23:38,160 --> 01:23:40,480 why that would be an awesome product for me. 1663 01:23:40,800 --> 01:23:42,880 I don't really like eviscerate right now in the meta. 1664 01:23:43,280 --> 01:23:46,240 I haven't really put together a Max deck, and so I haven't 1665 01:23:46,240 --> 01:23:50,800 really been going to Armories. If there's a deck for me to play 1666 01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:54,680 at the shop that I could rent for just an extra 5-10 bucks, 1667 01:23:54,680 --> 01:23:57,880 whatever the cost is, I would totally be going to more Armory. 1668 01:23:57,880 --> 01:24:00,480 Fuck yeah. Because, oh, there's a deck I 1669 01:24:00,480 --> 01:24:03,640 can play. And because I don't have one for 1670 01:24:03,640 --> 01:24:05,800 myself right now that would always be there. 1671 01:24:05,800 --> 01:24:10,120 It would always be an option. That is, that is a killer idea. 1672 01:24:10,520 --> 01:24:12,520 We got a link up, man. Get some marketing going. 1673 01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:15,840 Yeah, I'll put. The name in there. 1674 01:24:18,240 --> 01:24:19,760 We're about ready to move on to our Arsenal zone. 1675 01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:21,720 Yeah, you want to introduce it, Fuzzy? 1676 01:24:22,160 --> 01:24:24,240 Sure. Our Arsenal Zone is the section 1677 01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:27,720 of our podcast where we just each shout out a card that we've 1678 01:24:27,720 --> 01:24:31,040 been thinking about lately for a positive or negative reasons. 1679 01:24:31,040 --> 01:24:33,000 Whatever has got our mind running, you know? 1680 01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:38,840 And with my Arsenal Zone, I always like to hand sign a copy 1681 01:24:38,840 --> 01:24:40,760 of the card and give it each of my fellow hosts. 1682 01:24:40,840 --> 01:24:42,640 Since we have a guest here today, Anthony, you're going to 1683 01:24:42,640 --> 01:24:45,000 get a copy too. I brought one for each of y'all. 1684 01:24:45,720 --> 01:24:47,960 So I was looking through like my collection, like what do I want 1685 01:24:47,960 --> 01:24:50,520 to talk about today? And I saw the perfect card. 1686 01:24:50,520 --> 01:24:55,960 Right when I tell you this card is legendary, it's a legendary 1687 01:24:55,960 --> 01:24:59,480 specialization card you know I'm bringing up. 1688 01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:01,960 The big guns, right? Only one of. 1689 01:25:02,280 --> 01:25:06,600 Wow, this it's the one copy I'm going to put in the deck. 1690 01:25:07,080 --> 01:25:09,280 I've basically given you a playset of this legendary 1691 01:25:09,280 --> 01:25:12,000 specialization, right? Wow, that's right, I'm talking 1692 01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:16,560 about Regis side. I actually needed a regicide. 1693 01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:20,840 The perfect thing for for Crown, Crown Dominion, dromine. 1694 01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:24,400 It's you're right. It's even good right now. 1695 01:25:24,800 --> 01:25:28,000 So with with Regicide, I feel like this card gets a lot of 1696 01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:31,560 Flack for being bad, but it's really kind of a groundbreaking 1697 01:25:31,560 --> 01:25:33,600 card. This is the first card to ever 1698 01:25:33,600 --> 01:25:37,880 introduce an alternate win condition to the game where when 1699 01:25:37,880 --> 01:25:41,680 it hits a hero, if they are royal, they lose, period, full 1700 01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:42,800 stop. This is the first time we've 1701 01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:45,200 ever seen an effect like that in Flesh and Blood and I've always 1702 01:25:45,200 --> 01:25:46,960 loved those effects in Magic the Gathering. 1703 01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:49,880 Just like the idea of like, oh how can I do that? 1704 01:25:49,920 --> 01:25:53,160 How can I make my my game plan around this single card? 1705 01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:55,320 The drawback is really high here. 1706 01:25:55,320 --> 01:25:58,720 When the combat chain closes with regicide, assuming you did 1707 01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:01,880 not kill them before the combat chain ended, you lose the game. 1708 01:26:02,320 --> 01:26:05,160 So it also gives your opponent an alternate win con as well. 1709 01:26:05,480 --> 01:26:08,240 Just block the regicide, just stop the damage. 1710 01:26:08,960 --> 01:26:11,720 It also like can't be defended by cards with the same name as 1711 01:26:11,720 --> 01:26:14,840 cards in the defending heroes bandage zone, so it has a little 1712 01:26:14,840 --> 01:26:17,800 bit of evasion tacked onto it. It's also a blue block 3, so 1713 01:26:17,800 --> 01:26:19,640 that's your floor. You don't have to play this card 1714 01:26:19,640 --> 01:26:21,640 and it can still contribute to your deck in a couple of 1715 01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:24,880 different ways. I feel like this card is a big 1716 01:26:24,880 --> 01:26:28,120 old meme. Yeah, Everybody's always, like, 1717 01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:31,680 loving to laugh at this card. But also occasionally you'll see 1718 01:26:31,680 --> 01:26:33,760 it pop up in tournaments and actually do well. 1719 01:26:33,880 --> 01:26:36,960 And part of the reason it works is because it doesn't work. 1720 01:26:37,160 --> 01:26:40,840 That's the paradoxical nature of a lot of the bottom tier stuff 1721 01:26:40,840 --> 01:26:42,120 that we've been talking about today. 1722 01:26:42,840 --> 01:26:44,760 So I have a copy for each of you. 1723 01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:46,680 Thank you. Just to bring up a little 1724 01:26:46,680 --> 01:26:48,760 theoretical, you know, part of this game. 1725 01:26:48,760 --> 01:26:51,720 Yeah, a theoretical part of regicide too. 1726 01:26:51,720 --> 01:26:53,960 I think it has a decent place in a Droma. 1727 01:26:53,960 --> 01:26:57,480 I mean Droma, if she resolves any burn in the malls, she can. 1728 01:26:57,840 --> 01:27:00,040 She's vanishing. Parts from a graveyard into her 1729 01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:02,040 vantage zone. So when you finally play this 1730 01:27:02,040 --> 01:27:04,600 registration, she might not have a hand that can even block 1731 01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:06,240 because all those cards are already in the Vantage zone. 1732 01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:09,880 I do want to also note though, when the combat chain closes you 1733 01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:13,800 lose the game. You can just die by playing this 1734 01:27:13,800 --> 01:27:14,800 card. That's what I said. 1735 01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:17,760 Don't play it turn 0 if you have a bunch I. 1736 01:27:18,480 --> 01:27:22,240 Just want to what if you mention that if you're like Aiden Owen 1737 01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:24,280 the calling, right, and you're like, I need to eat. 1738 01:27:24,760 --> 01:27:28,360 Just play this card. Looks at you with three sigils. 1739 01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:33,840 Shit. You don't need to play a card in 1740 01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:36,600 order to lose like. You can just lose. 1741 01:27:37,480 --> 01:27:39,200 The fastest I can see you can just conceive. 1742 01:27:40,080 --> 01:27:42,040 Pitch, pitch, pitch, pitch conceit. 1743 01:27:45,000 --> 01:27:47,520 Thank you Fuzzy for the card. Yeah, thank you, Fuzzy. 1744 01:27:48,360 --> 01:27:50,640 I'll go ahead and go next. The card that I've been thinking 1745 01:27:50,640 --> 01:27:54,040 about is Moon Shot. So I mentioned I've been brewing 1746 01:27:54,040 --> 01:27:58,680 a lot with Max recently and you know, someone popped into the 1747 01:27:58,680 --> 01:28:01,360 Max Shot and they're like, hey, what does Max Blitz look like? 1748 01:28:01,840 --> 01:28:06,240 And it's like Nitromechanoid is like the best version of Max. 1749 01:28:06,240 --> 01:28:09,360 And you can't really do that in Blitz because it takes too long 1750 01:28:09,360 --> 01:28:11,600 to get your 3 hyper drivers a transform. 1751 01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:16,000 And they're like oh OK. And I was like, well what could 1752 01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:19,400 we do in Blitz? Moon Shot, Like Moon Shot is not 1753 01:28:19,400 --> 01:28:23,480 a very good cart in CC, but I think it can provide a really 1754 01:28:23,480 --> 01:28:29,200 interesting niche in Blitz by simply being a consistent big 1755 01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:32,840 finisher that you are adding next to your Max of velocity. 1756 01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:37,120 And simply by adding two more big damage finishers, you can 1757 01:28:37,120 --> 01:28:40,320 take mechanologists just that little step further. 1758 01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:45,120 And so like I'm thinking you know with with a red GW you only 1759 01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:48,040 need to destroy 1 hyper driver with moon shot to get to 10 1760 01:28:48,040 --> 01:28:49,520 power for the. Overpowering. 1761 01:28:49,720 --> 01:28:50,840 That's not a lot of hyper drivers. 1762 01:28:50,840 --> 01:28:52,680 There's not a lot of hyper drivers you can do that very 1763 01:28:52,680 --> 01:28:55,880 early on into the game. You could also like if you have 1764 01:28:55,880 --> 01:28:58,560 a penetration script out, you only need to destroy 2 hyper 1765 01:28:58,560 --> 01:28:59,920 drivers. If you break your Goliath 1766 01:28:59,920 --> 01:29:02,080 gauntlet you only need 2 hyper drivers. 1767 01:29:02,080 --> 01:29:05,720 And all that makes it so much easier to do the moon shot 1768 01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:08,120 thing. And because that's so much 1769 01:29:08,120 --> 01:29:11,320 easier. It has its IT has a place. 1770 01:29:11,560 --> 01:29:17,000 Is it good? I have no idea, but I think it 1771 01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:19,040 is the testing that we should be. 1772 01:29:19,040 --> 01:29:23,640 Doing for blitz Max I'll go next cuz I kind of want to save the 1773 01:29:23,640 --> 01:29:26,640 best for last. I didn't really have a card yet, 1774 01:29:26,640 --> 01:29:30,720 but I was kind of thinking about I, I, I can't believe I didn't 1775 01:29:30,720 --> 01:29:32,920 bring this up earlier, but I think the card I was thinking 1776 01:29:32,920 --> 01:29:35,800 about the most recently is Blasphemite. 1777 01:29:35,800 --> 01:29:39,640 Levi consumed and Levi redeemed. Yeah, just because, I mean, 1778 01:29:39,680 --> 01:29:41,640 we've already talked about it a little bit before. 1779 01:29:41,920 --> 01:29:44,640 We did a whole episode on that. We did a whole episode and not 1780 01:29:44,640 --> 01:29:48,800 only in this episode, like how it was supposed to fix Levi and 1781 01:29:48,800 --> 01:29:51,840 it technically did, but her power level really didn't 1782 01:29:51,840 --> 01:29:54,000 change. I think this is like one of the 1783 01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:57,440 coolest cards in in the game like it first revealed this new 1784 01:29:57,440 --> 01:30:00,800 card type Demi hero before tek Levasan kind of over shouted it 1785 01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:04,160 pretty pissed off about that, but it has one of the sickest 1786 01:30:04,160 --> 01:30:06,840 marvels I've ever seen and I still think it's one of the best 1787 01:30:06,840 --> 01:30:09,080 marvels. Better marvel than the tek 1788 01:30:09,080 --> 01:30:11,280 Levasan one. It is a better marvel, I'm not 1789 01:30:11,280 --> 01:30:13,320 going to lie, than than Tek Levasan. 1790 01:30:14,440 --> 01:30:17,240 And it just like as I've been like trying to figure out if I 1791 01:30:17,240 --> 01:30:20,800 should keep going with Levi and my competitive fab career. 1792 01:30:21,000 --> 01:30:23,920 I just like keep looking back at this card like man, what is what 1793 01:30:23,920 --> 01:30:26,520 else does this card unlock? Like how much does it really do 1794 01:30:26,520 --> 01:30:28,800 for Leviah? Or am I just like overestimating 1795 01:30:28,800 --> 01:30:30,880 how much this card really gives us? 1796 01:30:31,600 --> 01:30:34,680 So that's just the card I've been thinking about just because 1797 01:30:34,680 --> 01:30:36,960 like Levi is just so near and dear to my heart, even though I 1798 01:30:36,960 --> 01:30:39,960 have like 0 like results with this hero. 1799 01:30:39,960 --> 01:30:45,200 But we'll, we'll see what what what, what the future holds. 1800 01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:48,240 Yeah. Yeah, I think Levi consume, like 1801 01:30:48,240 --> 01:30:50,840 I think I said it before, I think that card is like kind of 1802 01:30:51,120 --> 01:30:54,160 LS s s. Hey, we recognize Rat Levi has a 1803 01:30:54,160 --> 01:30:56,120 problem. Here's a very, very good 1804 01:30:56,120 --> 01:30:58,200 possible solution. You guys got to figure it out 1805 01:30:58,200 --> 01:31:00,080 though. I think it's a really strong 1806 01:31:00,080 --> 01:31:01,800 card too. So I think it's a step in the 1807 01:31:01,800 --> 01:31:04,560 right direction and it shows that LSS cares about, you know, 1808 01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:07,720 people that are specialists and one tricks of these bad quote, 1809 01:31:07,720 --> 01:31:09,080 UN quote, bad heroes. Right. 1810 01:31:09,920 --> 01:31:13,000 For sure. Sweet, awesome. 1811 01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:16,600 I guess I'll go onto my card. Yeah, so I'm a man of 1812 01:31:16,600 --> 01:31:19,600 theoretical value. That's why every card I enjoy 1813 01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:24,840 starts with if this so my there's a lot of cards I really 1814 01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:27,400 like crazy brew cooks commotion. But the one I want to talk about 1815 01:31:27,400 --> 01:31:31,480 today is a promise of plenty. So I've played this card a lot. 1816 01:31:31,480 --> 01:31:33,960 I actually used to run it in my Briar deck, my channel, my 1817 01:31:33,960 --> 01:31:38,200 heroic Briar deck, and it is a card of theoretical value. 1818 01:31:38,200 --> 01:31:41,360 It states that it gets go again if you play it from Arsenal, it 1819 01:31:41,360 --> 01:31:43,440 swings for three blocks for two cost 0. 1820 01:31:44,040 --> 01:31:47,520 If it hits each person that each hero that has an empty arsenal 1821 01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:50,920 zone gets to put the top card of their deck into their arsenal. 1822 01:31:51,480 --> 01:31:55,080 And I've, I've specifically built Riptide to kind of work 1823 01:31:55,080 --> 01:32:00,720 around this card because I, I think he's the, he's technically 1824 01:32:00,720 --> 01:32:03,720 the only hero currently that can play it with go again without 1825 01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:06,880 any added effects from the turn that he draws it because he can 1826 01:32:06,880 --> 01:32:10,040 load it off his hero ability. So I wanted to play around with 1827 01:32:10,040 --> 01:32:14,280 that and I wanted to build a Redliner deck because I wanted 1828 01:32:14,280 --> 01:32:17,480 to play towards the theoretical value of the top part of my deck 1829 01:32:17,480 --> 01:32:20,840 on average or most of the time will be better than the top part 1830 01:32:20,840 --> 01:32:23,480 of your deck, right. And he also has these cool 1831 01:32:23,480 --> 01:32:26,520 little niche things where like if you play a Lace with inertia 1832 01:32:26,520 --> 01:32:30,480 or a Lace with frailty, it'll buff the arrow that you play, 1833 01:32:30,480 --> 01:32:32,000 but it won't buff Promise of plenty. 1834 01:32:32,160 --> 01:32:34,600 So you can play that load promise of plenty and then play 1835 01:32:34,600 --> 01:32:37,280 the promise for three. And it presents this weird kind 1836 01:32:37,280 --> 01:32:40,200 of conundrum for the opponent. Like, do I block this promise of 1837 01:32:40,200 --> 01:32:43,560 Plenty and not give them a card? Or do I save my blocks for the 1838 01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:47,000 arrow that's going to destroy me later on, Right. 1839 01:32:47,000 --> 01:32:49,640 And then with Redliner, if they'd end up blocking the 1840 01:32:49,640 --> 01:32:52,240 Promise of plenty, you can use the Redliner just to load the 1841 01:32:52,240 --> 01:32:54,800 arrow for free without pitching anything. 1842 01:32:54,800 --> 01:32:57,320 So there's like some gameplay aspect to promise of plenty. 1843 01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:01,960 My personal favorite story ever was me playing on Briar. 1844 01:33:02,120 --> 01:33:04,200 I was playing against Andrew Rooney in a tournament and he 1845 01:33:04,200 --> 01:33:06,520 let it hit 'cause he's like screw it, I'll get an arsenal 1846 01:33:06,520 --> 01:33:08,800 too. And he had 0 cards and sold his 1847 01:33:08,800 --> 01:33:11,440 prism and his arsenal card was Celestial Cataclysm. 1848 01:33:13,160 --> 01:33:14,520 So. Did not have an arsenal for the 1849 01:33:14,520 --> 01:33:16,600 rest of the game and I was able to win that game. 1850 01:33:17,840 --> 01:33:20,280 IP locked himself. Essentially so funny. 1851 01:33:20,320 --> 01:33:22,360 Yeah. And it's, it's just a really fun 1852 01:33:22,360 --> 01:33:24,840 card. It it's a lot of Crucible cards 1853 01:33:24,840 --> 01:33:26,800 like that. It's super cool and it's 1854 01:33:26,800 --> 01:33:29,640 personal is one of my personal favorite combos of the card of 1855 01:33:29,640 --> 01:33:31,920 all time. I can talk endless days about 1856 01:33:31,920 --> 01:33:36,360 this is a not legal card called shitty Xmas gift. 1857 01:33:37,320 --> 01:33:40,480 So if you if that card was able to be used, what you could do is 1858 01:33:40,480 --> 01:33:43,760 you could play rune blade present promise of plenty from 1859 01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:45,840 wherever. Say the opponent doesn't block, 1860 01:33:45,840 --> 01:33:48,560 you can instant speed in shitty Xmas gift to put a cracked 1861 01:33:48,560 --> 01:33:51,800 bottle on the top of their deck and then now it's and then they 1862 01:33:51,800 --> 01:33:53,000 put. A cracked bottle in the. 1863 01:33:53,000 --> 01:33:54,360 Arsenal for the rest of the game. 1864 01:33:55,800 --> 01:33:57,960 That's so funny so. That's one of my. 1865 01:33:57,960 --> 01:33:59,640 Favorite can play that UPS yeah so. 1866 01:33:59,680 --> 01:34:01,800 That's one of my favorite combos of all time. 1867 01:34:01,920 --> 01:34:05,440 Unfortunately it's not legal in any format that I've tried out 1868 01:34:05,440 --> 01:34:08,240 yet. I've yet to try UPF but yeah, 1869 01:34:08,520 --> 01:34:11,360 it's just endless possibilities with the Arsenal targets. 1870 01:34:11,360 --> 01:34:16,480 Limitless power. Yeah, man, I'm into it. 1871 01:34:16,560 --> 01:34:17,760 Yeah. All right. 1872 01:34:18,280 --> 01:34:19,880 I think that's all we got for today guys. 1873 01:34:20,760 --> 01:34:25,400 Anthony, do you have any like socials or handles that you want 1874 01:34:25,400 --> 01:34:27,400 to shout out if people want to get a hold of you or? 1875 01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:30,240 Yeah, well, I work at King so. So if you're in the soul calc 1876 01:34:30,240 --> 01:34:32,560 community, feel free to stop by one of our shops. 1877 01:34:32,560 --> 01:34:34,760 We have 3 shops open so feel free to stop by. 1878 01:34:34,760 --> 01:34:36,560 I work at the Fountain Valley one, but all of them are 1879 01:34:36,560 --> 01:34:39,040 awesome, so stop by. We welcome you if you play flesh 1880 01:34:39,040 --> 01:34:40,520 and blood, magic, whatever you want to play. 1881 01:34:40,720 --> 01:34:42,760 And then also I have a Twitter handle if you want to follow me. 1882 01:34:42,760 --> 01:34:45,880 It's real fox main. I post a lot of memes, a lot of 1883 01:34:45,880 --> 01:34:50,080 dreams, and hopefully one day I can post a winning Riptide list. 1884 01:34:50,080 --> 01:34:53,200 Yeah. I'm so excited for that day. 1885 01:34:53,360 --> 01:34:56,320 I can smell it all right. Anthony, thank you so much for 1886 01:34:56,320 --> 01:34:57,640 coming on to the podcast. Yeah. 1887 01:34:57,680 --> 01:34:59,920 Thank you so much man. And thank you, listeners, for 1888 01:34:59,920 --> 01:35:01,680 tuning in. We appreciate you. 1889 01:35:02,280 --> 01:35:04,160 Goodbye. Bye Eaters. 1890 01:35:11,160 --> 01:35:15,680 Pitch It to Me podcast is hosted by Fuzzy Delp, Clark Moore, 1891 01:35:16,080 --> 01:35:19,360 Angel Rosinos. Our executive producer is Talon 1892 01:35:19,360 --> 01:35:23,960 Stradley, logistics coordinator John Farkas, music by Dylan 1893 01:35:23,960 --> 01:35:29,000 Holtz, logo by Han V and sound mixing by Christopher Moore. 1894 01:35:29,600 --> 01:35:32,520 Last but not least, we'd like to thank you, the listener. 1895 01:35:32,920 --> 01:35:36,240 Thank you for tuning in. Please give us a follow on your 1896 01:35:36,240 --> 01:35:40,160 favorite social media platform at Pitch It to Me Podcast. 1897 01:35:40,680 --> 01:36:07,130 Stay tuned for Smile Tennis. Completely agree, I think saying 1898 01:36:07,370 --> 01:36:11,970 LSX come fix my hero is entirely the wrong attitude. 1899 01:36:12,330 --> 01:36:15,250 Waiting for the card. You're right there, fuzzy that. 1900 01:36:17,650 --> 01:36:21,770 Is a funny voice. I felt like your complainer was 1901 01:36:21,770 --> 01:36:22,490 gay. I don't know. 1902 01:36:29,440 --> 01:36:33,200 I'm like why is the guy whining about Ellis? 1903 01:36:33,200 --> 01:36:36,280 That's like fixing his hero. Like why does he have gay? 1904 01:36:37,760 --> 01:36:42,280 You want to take 2. I like it just the way it is. 1905 01:36:48,920 --> 01:36:52,440 How is he playing too late? It's not your fault. 1906 01:36:52,760 --> 01:36:55,640 We're attuned to it. There are natural predators. 1907 01:36:58,040 --> 01:37:05,560 And are non in in Fuzzy's garage man too. 1908 01:37:05,600 --> 01:37:08,240 I think next year we're definitely getting Tales of Arya 1909 01:37:08,240 --> 01:37:11,040 2 Electric boogaloo. Well, hopefully Electric Earth 1910 01:37:11,080 --> 01:37:14,480 ice boogaloo. You were waiting your whole life 1911 01:37:14,480 --> 01:37:18,040 for that dude I. Set up that pun months ago. 1912 01:37:19,160 --> 01:37:24,840 That's funny. Dude, Ricochet. 1913 01:37:24,840 --> 01:37:27,680 That'd be a great name for a card that deals with allies. 1914 01:37:28,040 --> 01:37:29,120 Because the attack. Just ricochet. 1915 01:37:29,160 --> 01:37:32,720 Boom, yeah, I would play the. Fuck out of a ricochet. 1916 01:37:32,720 --> 01:37:35,280 The next warrior is going to be a boomerang warrior. 1917 01:37:37,400 --> 01:37:39,880 It'll be fine because then you better like deal. 1918 01:37:40,080 --> 01:37:44,200 With Warrior the spear Warrior. Fuck that shit boomerang. 1919 01:37:44,760 --> 01:37:48,040 Freaking Crocodile Dundee, that's so funny.