1 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,240 Welcome to the Pichotumi Podcast, a show about the 2 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,600 subjective past, present, and potential future of flesh and 3 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,120 blood design. Today's episode will be about 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:19,640 permanence and their role in the game. 5 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,000 You can find us across, well, find them across all socials 6 00:00:23,240 --> 00:00:26,400 such as Blue Sky and Instagram at Pichotumi Podcast. 7 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:32,880 I'm fuzzy. I'm Kevin. 8 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,440 And I'm Clark. So we've got a special guest on 9 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,040 the show today, Kevin Smurf Murphy. 10 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:45,200 Welcome to the podcast. Just in case somebody's living 11 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:49,040 under a rock and hasn't heard of you, Kevin, could you introduce 12 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:53,000 yourself for our audience? Yeah, I'm Kevin Murphy. 13 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,120 I guess now I'm a Prism main. I used to be an Icelander player 14 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,960 for as long as she was legal to play. 15 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:02,760 You really know how to pick them, huh Icelander? 16 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:08,440 Yeah and I've been playing Prism for about the last year and 17 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,200 recently picked up some decent results winning Battle Harden 18 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:17,000 top 8IN London and started putting out some some content on 19 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,640 YouTube, essentially A Prism guide piece by piece. 20 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:23,240 Yeah, that's been getting a lot of good attention, huh? 21 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,680 Yes, it has way, way more than I expected. 22 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:32,040 I have noticed that people love learning about how to play 23 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,000 heroes from people really good at playing those heroes. 24 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:36,640 That makes sense to me. Oh yeah, yeah. 25 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,480 Yeah, I mean, I the first stuff I learned about how to play 26 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:45,000 Prism was from Rob Caton, who like made the deck and 1st 27 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:46,800 showed up with it heavy hitters release weekend. 28 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:51,320 And then Raya Adams, who like was the North American player 29 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,960 who really took all of that deck and took it forward. 30 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,960 So like I learned the basics of how to play it from them and. 31 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:01,920 Yeah, yeah. That's what got me hooked. 32 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:07,040 Some other wonderful accolades for you, Kevin. 10th in ELO in 33 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,440 the world. Oh my, we have a top ten player 34 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,920 on our podcast. I know we've always said that 35 00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:14,880 we're gonna be like more of a casual podcast and we're not. 36 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,840 We're gonna stay away from the competitive scene a little bit. 37 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,200 But I mean, here we are with the one of the best players in the 38 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,680 world. Yeah, well, Kevin's awesome 39 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:28,000 because not only is he 10th in the world in ELO, he also is Co 40 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:34,560 host of the Table pit with Pitt against, pit against, pit 41 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,400 against, right? Because Table Pit is the channel 42 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,840 and then Pit against is the call in show that you guys do. 43 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,640 Yeah. Yeah, so Co host of Pit against 44 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:48,400 a call in show every single Thursday where fans of flesh and 45 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:53,080 blood can call in and give their unhinged hot takes, which you 46 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,680 and your Co host will then systematically disassemble over 47 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:00,080 the next 20 minutes, as I learned just a few Thursdays 48 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,880 ago. We we try and talk people back a 49 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:07,200 little bit, but we also get some like really interesting ones 50 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,200 that also will move us in certain directions. 51 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,920 It's it's really cool to have those discussions just because 52 00:03:14,920 --> 00:03:18,640 like I, I don't love the way social media works. 53 00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:21,160 And just like when you have a character limit on a message, 54 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,560 I'm like, that's not, that's not it. 55 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:25,720 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then getting to have those 56 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:27,880 like longer discussions where you actually can go through the 57 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,640 nuance of stuff is awesome. It's why I love it. 58 00:03:30,640 --> 00:03:33,400 And it's also like, I think you could probably tell it's why all 59 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:35,400 of my content is at least 30 minutes long. 60 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:40,800 Like, like that's, that's the stuff I really enjoy. 61 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,560 Kevin, where can people find you? 62 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:48,720 I think you can find me on every platform is at Smurfab. 63 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:54,360 So SMURPHFAB, and I'm pretty sure that's my handle on Blue 64 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:56,960 Sky, Twitter, YouTube, all of it. 65 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,720 So yeah, if you want to find PRISM content and how to play 66 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,640 PRISM stuff, then YouTube's where to go for that. 67 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:07,560 Yeah. Awesome. 68 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:13,120 And then your call in show. That is Pit Against which is 69 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:19,240 every Thursday 8:00 PM Eastern. On the table Pit is the the 70 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:23,440 YouTube channel and I do that with William Knuckles AKA Table 71 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,640 and Legs. Awesome. 72 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,800 We'll definitely be putting all the links to that at the top of 73 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,200 our description. We encourage everyone to go 74 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,720 check out Kevin and all of his content. 75 00:04:36,280 --> 00:04:42,080 He is not only an extremely talented player, he is a very 76 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:46,360 insightful player. And as far as competitive 77 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:50,040 players go, I have really appreciated how you are able to 78 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,160 speak to players of all skill levels. 79 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,800 And you're not just about what's the best thing in the game right 80 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,800 now, you're also about what's interesting in the design of the 81 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,760 game and and wider aspects. So I I highly recommend if you 82 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,400 enjoy our content, you will enjoy Kevin's content. 83 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:08,800 Thanks. Yeah. 84 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,480 So what are you doing? Click off of our show and go. 85 00:05:14,840 --> 00:05:19,400 Maybe don't do that. Well, Kevin, thank you so much 86 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,480 for joining us for today's episode. 87 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,040 We're talking about the various permanence in Flesh and blood. 88 00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:28,920 There are lots of different kinds of permanence. 89 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,560 And I think many people, when they first joined the game, they 90 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,240 were sold as flesh and blood as a game with no board state, no 91 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,960 permanence. And then we play the game. 92 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,760 There's a lot more permanence than we were initially sold on. 93 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:48,080 Kevin, with your recent focus on Prism, we felt like it was a 94 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:52,440 really good chance to sort of discuss all of this, especially 95 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,160 as it's been maybe a little bit more of a hot topic issue with 96 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:00,120 Florian and his Rinchant stacking and other similar board 97 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,800 state based strategies coming to prominence recently. 98 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,040 So we are going to break it down into 3 pitches. 99 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,600 In red pitch, Kevin will talk about the various different ways 100 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,360 that illusionists engage in building a board state and their 101 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,480 various permanence. In yellow pitch, Fuzzy is going 102 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,920 to talk about semi permanent cards, cards that stay on the 103 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,680 field for a while but eventually go away. 104 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,920 And then I'm going to talk about one time permanence. 105 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,800 So things that go on to the board state but then disappear 106 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,400 pretty quickly. These were the the three 107 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,320 categories that we sort of sorted out with permanence in 108 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,880 our notes, and I think it's going to be fun going through 109 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,120 the different types of them and discussing how they interact. 110 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,800 And if you stick around until after blue pitch, we do our 111 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:48,720 Arsenal zone. If you're new to the show, we're 112 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,520 each going to shout out a card from the game and that's how our 113 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,280 show's going to go. Kevin, do you want to leave us 114 00:06:54,280 --> 00:06:56,200 off with Red pitch? Sure. 115 00:06:56,840 --> 00:07:01,920 So I mean, this is for me, this is a very like there's a sing. 116 00:07:02,280 --> 00:07:07,240 There's a very defining characteristic for what I think 117 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,680 about when they're when I look at illusion as permanence. 118 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:11,800 And I guess these are about to become also necromancer 119 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,680 permanence, which are they are permanents that stay on the 120 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,400 board until the opponent interacts with them. 121 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,840 The opponent has to do something to get rid of them. 122 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:25,320 And until they do, they're going to get some sort of recurring 123 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:32,080 value that the player who's casted it can will get turn over 124 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:33,280 turn. And that's how you see these 125 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,840 advantages from like OG prison with boards full of auras and 126 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,960 luminaris or drone light with a huge board of Dragons. 127 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,000 The opponent has to deal with it in some way. 128 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,760 Which is a very powerful thing to ask, you know, especially 129 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,920 because many classes have a really hard time dealing with 130 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,960 those different permanence. They kind of ask different 131 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:55,840 things of you. But like Spectra, I know you're 132 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:58,640 going to get into it, but being a classic example, I need action 133 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:00,120 points to deal with Spectra efficiently. 134 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,000 Otherwise, I'm giving you my entire turn. 135 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,520 Which like Spectra is a really flavourful illusionist mechanic 136 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,160 of you have you've created this thing and the opponent goes to 137 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,200 hit it and clear it and there's just nothing there and the 138 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,240 attack is wasted. And like it flavorfully makes 139 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,600 sense game design. It's much harder to balance. 140 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,800 But that also becomes like one of the things looking at each of 141 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:28,400 the illusionist that's come out, how your the their primary like 142 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:32,520 board state mechanic has changed with basically all of them. 143 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,600 And then how the opponent answers those mechanics. 144 00:08:36,039 --> 00:08:40,480 That mechanic has also changed because Prism, it OG prism it 145 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:45,840 was Spectra and was ludicrously polarizing and also got into 146 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,600 like it's own weird 2 spaces between the yellow auras and the 147 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,600 blue auras. Because the difference between 148 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:56,400 A4 cost Spectra aura and a 0 cost Spectra aura. 149 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:00,160 I don't care if it is an action that consumes your action point. 150 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:06,320 A0 cost Spectra aura is wildly different from A4 cost Spectra 151 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:08,200 aura. And you know, I'm really happy 152 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,960 you brought up these 4 cost Spectra auras because one thing 153 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,920 that you said at the beginning here was recurring value, right? 154 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,800 If we look at what we kind of expect A4 cost yellow card to 155 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:24,440 give us, it's about 7 value, right, Seven offensive value. 156 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,560 But if we look at a lot of these auras, merciful retribution, 157 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:30,800 what else is there? There's Genesis. 158 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,120 But Genesis is a majestic. It's supposed to break the mouth 159 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,040 a little bit. Parable and Ode would be the 160 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:39,760 other two rares. Looking at these rare 4 cost 161 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:45,240 auras, Parable, Ode and Merciful Retribution, none of them really 162 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,520 generate 7 value. When you play them, you really 163 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:53,680 are being asked to get a lot of their value turn over turn. 164 00:09:53,680 --> 00:09:58,840 You need that recurring value for it to be a worthwhile value 165 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,680 proposition, right? If it depends a little bit on 166 00:10:02,680 --> 00:10:06,720 how they get played out and how you map it, because the other 167 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,480 half of that is how do you value Spectra? 168 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:15,120 But like if you're going to play an ODE with two ORS on the board 169 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,960 that are swinging and you have OG Luminaris, do you suddenly 170 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,880 just immediately have 4 value off it because you're getting 2 171 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:22,560 on hits plus the swing and an on hit? 172 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,480 And then they have to deal with spectrum, but it and then 173 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:29,240 merciful is like in response to something breaking, you play the 174 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,840 merciful, you get the trigger from them hitting a Genesis or 175 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,000 whatever, but the spectral shield is still there to also 176 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,560 ping. Like the math gets really hard 177 00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:43,200 to, it's really hard to have concrete math for these auras 178 00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:46,520 because also all of the auras are multiplicative with each 179 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:50,680 other. Yeah, you know that that also 180 00:10:50,680 --> 00:10:53,520 seems like a very interesting thing for Illusionist 181 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,880 specifically, is that they have that multiplicative synergy. 182 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,720 With each other I. Think basically all of them have 183 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:05,200 some sort of multiplicative increasing value just because 184 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:10,520 like ODE is it's own thing. Then dromae is not necessarily 185 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,760 as multiplicative, but. There's like burn them all, 186 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,720 which is. Sort of Bolana putting counters 187 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,720 and then still still pretty enigma with her counters, yeah. 188 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,920 Yeah, I think it's pretty critical to illusionist design 189 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:28,400 too, how these Spectra auras can buff with each other, because 190 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:30,240 you want to have that pressure on your opponent to deal with it 191 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,600 soon, right? Like, that's part of the design. 192 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:36,000 Like if I want to make my opponent afraid of this board 193 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,400 state, if I want to give them a reason to deal with it, that 194 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,040 multiplicative values, one way that you can really, like, 195 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:42,920 punish players for not respecting your cards. 196 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,280 You know, I want to present this challenge that like, hey, you 197 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,760 got to deal with this early, and if you do, it's probably OK. 198 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:49,920 But if you ignore it for even a little bit, that's when it gets 199 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:50,680 out of hand. Yes. 200 00:11:50,680 --> 00:11:52,800 Yeah, and that's what makes it so annoying. 201 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,040 Yes, against. Yeah, yeah, because to be 202 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,080 honest, I'm always scared of prison. 203 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,800 Like I'll be playing Victor. I am up like 30 plus live. 204 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,680 I have all this tempo but they have one card in soul. 205 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,000 Kevin's shaking his head like, yeah, you're basically dead at 206 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,720 that point. Life totals don't matter. 207 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,400 I don't like no, it's illusions. Matter like all. 208 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,480 I can swing like red macho Grande and they're like, ha, 209 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:23,080 you've fallen into my trap gun. Block 3 soul shield swing my 210 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,560 angels again. Yeah, Soul shield pitching a 211 00:12:26,560 --> 00:12:30,640 blue pop Halo, go get Soraya. And it's like, oh, you know, 212 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:34,520 that one carton soul that's now a draw to oh, that's now an ALS. 213 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:36,440 And I'm like, what the fuck just happened? 214 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,440 Yeah. So it's like Spectra was an 215 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,880 interesting place for them to start because that's like that 216 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:48,800 is the way that the opponent interacts with it, which is very 217 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,720 taxing. By like, yeah, like turning off 218 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,000 their turn. Yeah, which is the is very 219 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:59,080 taxing for a lot of decks. And they try to change that when 220 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:03,120 they go to Dromi and they have allies that have Phantasm, which 221 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,640 is trying to give those decks agency again, but they still 222 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,360 have that kind of snowball effect. 223 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,680 And Illusionist retained at least some of it's like weakness 224 00:13:12,680 --> 00:13:15,200 to aggro decks where it's like Illusionist takes time to build 225 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,160 up that advantage. Especially the defensive dromide 226 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,600 decks would want to play that longer game. 227 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,880 You could see red line aggro or Empress Dromide try and just 228 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:31,520 match them for raw numbers and they could, but it was still not 229 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,320 Phi with Mask. Momentum still does pretty well 230 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:38,160 into that. So like they tried to change it, 231 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:42,840 but like there was still this thing of you can make way more 232 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,720 allies than the opponent can reasonably deal with. 233 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,720 Then they can clear every turn for those for the decks that 234 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,760 struggle with Spectra also couldn't clear that many allies 235 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:58,360 every turn. So then they still like they 236 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:03,640 tweaked it a little bit more and also the the number of Dragons 237 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,080 that were in the deck, because that's like the other side of 238 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:08,120 it. And that was also the big 239 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,880 difference when it whenever fest came out with the blue Spectra 240 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,880 is like suddenly you just had double the auras in your deck as 241 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,400 prism, which just completely changed the way that deck 242 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,200 played. And then draw my having 30 243 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,840 Dragons in the deck built that entire deck. 244 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:27,840 And then you go to new Prism and you have 7 allies in your deck 245 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,760 basically total. Yeah, Yeah. 246 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,200 That's a really limited. Number and they they also have 247 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:39,040 ward so they can attack you and deal with your board at the 248 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,960 same. Time yeah, that was something 249 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,640 that we discussed way back in the early days of the podcast 250 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:50,120 pretty much when we started we like talked about Dusk till Dawn 251 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,000 because the this that had just come out when we started the 252 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:59,200 podcast and we were very excited actually about printing Ward on 253 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:03,800 allies. It fell proper to us as a way of 254 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,880 like, oh, this is a far more interactable thing that every 255 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:12,360 single deck can do. Every single deck wants to and 256 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,040 intends to deal damage to their opponent. 257 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:20,240 And obviously ninjas still had good match up because Ward 4 258 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,040 still pops off of Kodachi for one. 259 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,320 Yes it does. And so it was great because it 260 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:27,880 was. You can still get your 261 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,880 guaranteed value as an Illusionist player. 262 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,600 People on the other side of the table from illusionists can 263 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:40,240 still deal damage to those decks and destroy their ward, but the 264 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,520 illusionist has a slightly better match up because they get 265 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:47,200 more guaranteed value out of it. Yes, we get like more guaranteed 266 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,400 value out of it, but then it also the flip side of that that 267 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:55,120 they made the mechanic of actually getting these allies 268 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,800 into play is so much more restrictive than any than the 269 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:03,480 previous two because it was you don't playing in a figment from 270 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:08,000 your hand is miserable. I've done it. 271 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,680 It's miserable. Whenever Prism plays a figment 272 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:15,640 from hand I'm like I got a chance this game. 273 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:20,840 Yeah, like it's it, it is drastically different from the 274 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,720 other ones because they there's significantly fewer of them in 275 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,920 the deck. It's easier for most opponents 276 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:33,600 to answer, and it's harder to get your permanent into play to 277 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,840 start getting value out of it. Yeah, which really feels like 278 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:41,720 the distinction between Prism's ward allies and Enigma's ward, 279 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:46,800 quote, UN quote allies. They're not allies, but they're 280 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,240 allies. Yeah, Enigma went back to that 281 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:55,360 like Droma density of of permanence in your deck. 282 00:16:55,560 --> 00:17:00,040 And also it's even easier to deploy them I think than it is 283 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:01,800 for Droma. Sure. 284 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,560 At least in general, you don't have to worry about at the Ash 285 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,240 mechanic at all. It's just you play the card, 286 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,599 it's an instant or it's an action, you play it and that's 287 00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:12,440 it. Now also very differently with 288 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:17,240 Enigma allies, we were talking earlier about how the prism 289 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:21,079 cards need the reoccurring value to get to a good value 290 00:17:21,079 --> 00:17:24,160 proposition, but they were very multiplicative so it was kind of 291 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:28,680 hard to track. Enigma's ward spells feel a lot 292 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,240 more linear but are way more spect up. 293 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:37,160 So taking a look at waxing Specter, it's a 2 for ward four 294 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,800 and then when you or sorry ward 3, but you can get a plus one 295 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,960 counter on it if you cast the blue and if you spin that one 296 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,120 floating resource, you have to attack with it. 297 00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:51,040 It comes in 4/4. Assuming you're using the the 298 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,200 scroll. Yes, assuming you're using the 299 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,520 scroll that is three ward value and four offensive value. 300 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:03,000 That is 7 value on a red for three resources. 301 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,440 That is just straight linear math for what we expect. 302 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,720 It's just split between offense and defense. 303 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:14,280 Yes yeah, like the there are some cards in the name of his 304 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:18,000 deck that are just on rate or really good rate 3 for seven go 305 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:23,680 again is very good in flesh and blood 2 card 7 go again is very 306 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,600 good. Rage Spectre is a blue three 307 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,080 block that is A2 card 7. Pretty good. 308 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,880 Which is kind of crazy. Spectral manifestations by 309 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,320 itself is not great, but as soon as you put a restless 310 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:43,480 coalescence in that hand it's a three card 13 that covers 3 311 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:49,080 break points basically. Yeah, it can get really out of 312 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,680 hand really fast. And I think that was so 313 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,120 interesting because again, when Enigma came out, we were excited 314 00:18:56,120 --> 00:18:59,760 to see more Ward again, but it's functioning very differently 315 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,360 than how Ward functioned in Prism. 316 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:06,200 Do you think that is entirely due to, as you're saying, ease 317 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,320 of deployment and density? Or do you think that the numbers 318 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,160 play a larger role in that and how they're evaluated? 319 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:19,760 I think it's a mix of both. The thing that the density plays 320 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,760 a very large role in it because you're much happier as an enigma 321 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:28,240 to just cash in that word value basically every turn. 322 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:33,480 In some matchups, in prisms, new prisms, aggro matchups, you have 323 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:35,880 to be willing to cash in the ward value every turn. 324 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:40,960 But in your longer matchups, you have to very strategically use 325 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,320 your resources because you have so few of them. 326 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,720 And Enigma still in those matchups is just very happy to 327 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,400 like is fine caching in that ward value. 328 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:57,280 But then because of the ease of deployment, you also then get to 329 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:02,160 run a bunch of D reacts as Enigma to help cover the word 330 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:07,320 value you do have. Now the other half of this is 331 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,000 we've been calling them allies for Enigma. 332 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:14,640 They're not allies. Prisms you can just target with 333 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,360 attacks. So Victor can just hammer an 334 00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:23,160 Angel, he gets that choice. He doesn't get that choice into 335 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:27,880 Enigma, which also gives the agency to back to Enigma. 336 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,880 In terms of defending it which you just like set up turn cycles 337 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:36,480 which are deploy mirror guy, send CNC arsenal AD react and 338 00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:41,800 it's so hard for dex to deal with that turn cycle and prism. 339 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:46,760 The only comparable turn that Prism has is like flip an Angel 340 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:51,600 and play an Arclight Sentinel. Yeah, which is like the big 341 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,200 Soraya turn, right? That's what every single Prism 342 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,920 player is chasing the high of. It's flip Soraya swing, a draw 343 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,720 to resolve ALS. Yeah. 344 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,120 The the difference between just like Arsenal and D react and 345 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:09,240 play A6 cost aura is insane. It's massive. 346 00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:12,920 It's just night and day the way that Ward has interacted with 347 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:17,800 these two decks, like they they went from allies, they started 348 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,560 swinging back towards the middle by putting Ward on them and they 349 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,560 swung all the way to the other side with Enigma just having 350 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:29,680 Ward on all their stuff. And it's it's done really funky 351 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,720 things to the game as a result. Could you say more about that 352 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,080 like you're talking about the meta implications that Enigma 353 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:40,200 brought? I mean it just the problem 354 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,920 becomes Enigma is just a, and people have said this since she 355 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:46,560 came out. Enigma is just a stat check 356 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,040 deck. She's a damage check where if 357 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:54,080 you can't present, if you can't convert your hands to like 12 358 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:58,360 damage on offense, she will just snowball basically infinitely 359 00:21:58,360 --> 00:22:00,960 because she starts getting to use ward to cover all your break 360 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,160 points and any weird stuff that would happen. 361 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,360 Any reactions you might have just get covered by ward to 362 00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:10,040 protect the bigger stuff. And then I think Enigma probably 363 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,440 had more 40 O games than any other deck we've seen. 364 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,760 I do think the stat check is intentional, you know, like they 365 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:22,920 were like in order to make sure that you can, that any hero kind 366 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,600 of has a shot into the style of game plan, we're going to make 367 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,560 it all based on how much damage you can present. 368 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:29,680 You know, they're trying to balance around that. 369 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,760 So if you have tempo, you should be OK. 370 00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:34,760 But then it just kind of turned out that like Enigma was 371 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,200 actually pretty good at just keeping that defensive value 372 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,600 like around all game and keeping her wards around forever. 373 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,760 Because once she has like a single ward on it's it's no 374 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,520 longer like, can you deal 12? Because if I can block your 12, 375 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,000 then actually I still get my aura and I'm still getting value 376 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,520 long term. You know you have to have more 377 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:56,200 offensive value than she can defend. 378 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:01,080 Yes, it really felt like they were punishing you for blocking 379 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,640 her attacks, right? Oh yeah. 380 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,680 Like I think that was the unintended consequence of the 381 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,120 strategy. I think it is fine to demand a 382 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:13,000 stack check and to have a deck that says you need to be able to 383 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,440 deal enough damage to kill me. Because I think all good flesh 384 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,320 and blood decks need to be able to convert A5 card hand into 385 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,840 offense or A0 or A5 card hand into defense. 386 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:29,360 I think the best decks can do both, but with Enigma it was 387 00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:33,360 well, you have to give me 5 cards on offense every single 388 00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:36,560 turn and if you don't, you're fucked. 389 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,600 And so that meant that any and all damage that Enigma ended up 390 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:46,080 throwing was unblockable almost in a way, because the moment 391 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:51,080 that you start giving cards to block that damage, then you're 392 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,480 attacking with less value. And that just plays into 393 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:59,160 Enigma's win condition. So it it almost stopped 394 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,720 promoting the back and forth that flesh and blood is known 395 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:02,760 for. Oh, definitely. 396 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,040 Whereas Dromi's Phantasm on her Dragons did promote that a 397 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,120 little bit more. You were encouraged to block 398 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:13,040 with a popper, and still encouraged to attack back, but 399 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,200 now you had this choice of attacking the player or the 400 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,800 ally, and that gave a nice new axis of engagement. 401 00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:24,600 Which we did. We do see a little bit of this 402 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:29,280 getting punished for blocking thing when new Prism is really 403 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,120 doing her thing. Like I'm basically never happier 404 00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:35,360 than when somebody is blocking an Angel attack. 405 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:40,600 Like if I get the choice of defending for an Angel, if you 406 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,600 give me that opportunity, I'm probably going to take it. 407 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:49,920 And it's it is less punishing still because you can just like 408 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,360 send a hammer for four at the Angel after you like 2 card 409 00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:55,600 block heralds. Like that's fine. 410 00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:01,360 But there, there is still a bit of that in new Prism where if 411 00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:04,840 you start blocking angels, you're going to fall behind. 412 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:10,200 Like you don't have that choice. Yeah, I don't know if that's 413 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,800 totally healthy for the game, that aspect of Allied design. 414 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:19,600 It it might not be, but I think it has to do with the way I 415 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,680 mean, I think the Phantasm thing is a good example of like what 416 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:28,240 that looks like when you can interact with it in a meaning, a 417 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,320 sort of meaningful way. And I think it's also part of 418 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:35,560 why, like Victor into Enigma wasn't the worst. 419 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:40,360 He was by far the best guardian into Enigma because he could 420 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,240 test of strength and he could trounce. 421 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,120 So he gets value back out of blocking and it's not good. 422 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:51,960 He doesn't like it but he could block and not just lose out 423 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,040 completely for it as long as he won the clash. 424 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,760 I think what we we used to say was we take those. 425 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,760 Yeah. But then of course, you know 426 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,360 they flip their their red Enigma Chimera and we're just like 427 00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:10,520 fuck. Yeah, but no, it it becomes a 428 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,720 weird thing when you have these permits because you can't just 429 00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:15,040 let them sit on the board forever. 430 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:21,240 That's them getting sort of like pseudo infinite value if they 431 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,560 never get cleared. And that's like one of the big 432 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,600 things in new Prism as well as like I need to make more threats 433 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,920 than you can answer. That's that's how it works. 434 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:35,440 If if I can't just if you're Victor with 45 poppers, I need 435 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,360 to do something else and I need to make more threats than you 436 00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:41,200 can answer. And that's between angels and 437 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:46,320 heralds and auras. And it's like I have to find 438 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:47,680 something that I can do with that. 439 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:54,560 But it becomes it's always, I'm not sure if it or combo is 440 00:26:54,560 --> 00:27:00,520 harder to balance in this game, but it's definitely one of the 441 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:01,880 hardest things for them to balance. 442 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,320 And I've I liked where they went with new Prism and I think they 443 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,360 swung back. They swung a little too far in 444 00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:10,240 the other direction with Enigma, and I think they're coming back 445 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,120 a bit with Gravy Bones. Yeah, Speaking of Gravy Bones, 446 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,920 we've been given a glimpse into the future of Allies and where 447 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:18,960 LSS thinks they might be able to go next. 448 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,800 And we are recording this at the day where we don't know very 449 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,680 much about the set, but that will change like tomorrow. 450 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,000 So by the time this episode comes out, you the listeners 451 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,200 know a lot more about the set than we do. 452 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,240 You probably have seen like more of Gravy Bones's allies. 453 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:41,200 We only know like Chum the ALS dupe as well as the rigor 454 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:42,120 mortis. Rigor mortis. 455 00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:45,000 The six one ally. And there's one other. 456 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,320 There is one other. Saw Bones? 457 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,360 Yes, saw bones. The Doctor Who can tap and 458 00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:53,040 prevent one damage to the next ally. 459 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:54,800 Yes, the prevention one. Yeah, Yep. 460 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,920 So just looking at what we've seen so far, I think I'm a 461 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,960 little worried actually that these allies are going to be 462 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,440 like too much of a pain in the ass to play against. 463 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,720 Like with Droma, you had the phantasm, so you're like, OK, I 464 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,320 can put a six in front of this dragon and it will die. 465 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,680 I don't have to waste an entire attack because spending an 466 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,320 attack to kill an ally is often awful. 467 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,640 Like hopefully I have an attack with go again that also is the 468 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,880 exact same attack value as the life that I'm trying to hit. 469 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:26,080 But let's say like I'm trying to attack A4 ally and I only have 470 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:27,720 threes in hand. What the fuck am I going to do? 471 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,640 I waste 2 cards on it, suddenly I'm giving 6 value to kill this 472 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,240 ally? Or like it has two life but I 473 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:34,960 only have 4 go again, it's the same thing. 474 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,880 Like it's hard sometimes it's really hard to kill them 475 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,440 efficiently. And with effects like saw bones, 476 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,000 you can prevent one damage and you can like screw over your 477 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,360 opponent by making the break point bad for them, like forcing 478 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,520 it to be a bad inefficient break point. 479 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,600 Yeah. However, it looks like they are 480 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,880 doing other healthy things. The ally cards cannot block, 481 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,640 which means that there's no easy way of getting them into your 482 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,840 graveyard unless you lean on discard synergies. 483 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,040 So there's an extra hoop to jump through to be able to play these 484 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,000 allies though. You can play them normally 485 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,400 straight from hand, but then they won't have Go Again I do 486 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,120 not believe. I believe they only have Go 487 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,360 Again in terms of casting them when you cast them from. 488 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,040 Graveyard with the compass specifically and only the first 489 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,280 one, yes. Yes, but it also looks like 490 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:26,840 they're trying to get action points. 491 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,880 So no more of these dragon storms or ward storms that we've 492 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:37,000 seen coming from Enigma and Dromi or even Angel or aura 493 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,000 storms that we see coming from Prism. 494 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,000 It seems like it's going to be like they're going to have to 495 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,640 work a lot harder to be able to throw multiple attacks and in a 496 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,160 given turn with their allies. It's like they're saying, 497 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,960 instead of making it really difficult for our opponent, 498 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,960 let's make it difficult for the player playing the allies, you 499 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,960 know? Yeah, yeah, good. 500 00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,760 One thing I've loved about Illusionist design is that 501 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:05,760 you've been able to see LSS improve their design process as 502 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,240 the games continued. And we kind of did that in this 503 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,720 pitch, right? We started talking about old 504 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:15,480 Prism and Spectra, then we moved to allies with Dromi, and then 505 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,320 like the introduction of Ward with new Prism, and then like 506 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,200 how that manifested in Enigma. And now we're talking about 507 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,800 returning to allies again in Gravy Bones, which is also 508 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,480 probably going to be a signal for like what allies are going 509 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:32,640 to look like with new Dromi. Like there's a really cool 510 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:37,480 aspect where LSS has printed really strong, really powerful 511 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:42,680 things with with illusionists, but we've been able to see them 512 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,640 develop and get better and find more and more healthier ways of 513 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:51,400 expressing the same mechanical ideas of permanence on the board 514 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:52,920 that give you recurring value all. 515 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:59,320 Right, so with everything in red pitch wrapped up and discussed 516 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,520 Fuzzy, what do you have for yellow? 517 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,480 So I'm going to be talking about semi permanence. 518 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,240 What's a semi permanent? You know, those things that are 519 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,840 like they're like permanence, but they have an expiration 520 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:13,760 date. You know, they're not that long 521 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,560 for this world, but they're still very much things that like 522 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,400 help you develop a board state. They make you feel like you have 523 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,920 more on the board. They break turn parody like any 524 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,720 of your other like permanence and they could potentially give 525 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,880 you reoccurring value. Maybe that's what I want to talk 526 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,160 about on my pitch. I think the first example I want 527 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,560 to talk about is Crank item. When Mechanologist as a class 528 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,640 was first created in Arcane Rising, it was having a clear 529 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,520 emphasis on these items, right? It was, is it like the first 530 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,920 board state class? Because Aleutians didn't come 531 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,040 out till Monarch, right? So the first time we saw like 532 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,320 these cards being put into your board state was Dash and they 533 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,640 gave her like the pistol package, you know, where you 534 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,120 could slowly assemble like Zodia over time and then have this 535 00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,720 value that you could pump resources into that'd be way 536 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,320 more efficient than anything anyone could handle. 537 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,480 So we had this like slow amassing of efficient items. 538 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,920 In terms of like a full game plan, I'd say so. 539 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,960 They also had items like tech locore or tech Apple Pounder 540 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:13,960 wasn't the game yet. They had items like techno core 541 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,440 that gave you resources for the next couple turns and 542 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,400 supercharged you for the next couple. 543 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,400 So they already had this idea of like some items stick around for 544 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,400 indefinitely. Some items are going to give you 545 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,120 short term value for the next couple turns. 546 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:33,400 However, when they revisited mechanologist in bright lights, 547 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,400 they were like, OK, items are weird because they don't block 548 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:39,880 and they don't necessarily give you an action point. 549 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:45,520 But they found a happy medium with crank where you can choose 550 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:50,000 to have your item around for less time, fewer turns, but you 551 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,120 get your action point back because that's a really 552 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,480 different balancing point. An item that gives you your 553 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,200 action point back with go again is a lot easier to use than one 554 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,920 that doesn't. So being able to like, imagine 555 00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:02,520 if all your items cost that action point, they didn't have 556 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,920 go again, but then you draw a hand of three of them. 557 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,960 What are you going to do? Play 1 Arsenal one pitch to 558 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,440 another maybe, but like being able to play them all and crank 559 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,720 them out one after another. Actually using your whole hand 560 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,440 is something that is probably pretty important if you want to 561 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:21,200 build a game plan around items. Yeah, crank was also great 562 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,000 because very often they attached, they were able to math 563 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,240 out the value that the card would generate to the amount of 564 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,920 steam counters on it. So look at Hadron Collider. 565 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,800 Hadron Collider is one of my favorite examples of a good 566 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,120 crank item. It is A1 cost that enters with 567 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,400 four steam counters on it. You can crank it down to three 568 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,560 steam counters and then the next time you boost it destroys 569 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:48,200 itself and gives plus power equal to the amount of counters 570 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,640 on it. So if you somehow were able to 571 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,560 get an extra action point it could come in as a one for four 572 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,280 non tac action pump which is way overrate. 573 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,560 But if you wanted it to have go again, you would have to crank 574 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:05,560 it down to three and then it's just like come to fight, you're 575 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,159 just running a one 4 + 3 pump in your deck. 576 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:09,920 Smurf, do you have a favorite crank item? 577 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:12,400 I mean, boom grenade is boom grenade. 578 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:13,920 Yeah, Yeah, it's hard to argue with that. 579 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,120 Grenade's pretty solid. I like Boom Grenade because it 580 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,560 is always for value when you get it off. 581 00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:22,000 Like the amount of damage that it's dealing has nothing to do 582 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,840 with the steam counters, but the way that you use it. 583 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,560 Whether you're calling your shot on the next turn or trying to 584 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,679 line something up immediately, that's what you would want to 585 00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:32,239 crank for. So I kind of feel like it's 586 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,719 almost better to not crank it a lot of the time because then you 587 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,760 get to use a full hand to push that boom grenade in the future, 588 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,440 you know? But also like sending it off the 589 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,719 top with dash IO, getting a free action point without diminishing 590 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,199 your damage. And then if you're able to sync 591 00:34:48,199 --> 00:34:50,159 the group, boom grenade like that can be really powerful. 592 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,280 I love Arsenal ING a boom grenade and then like doing a 593 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,840 big chain and then they're like ready for the last attack and 594 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,320 then I just go boom grenade, no crank pass. 595 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,320 That is a lot of fun. I do want to point out 596 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,280 Cerebellum Processor in Null time zone because those are our 597 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,440 most recent crank cards delivered to us via the 598 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:14,840 expansion slot, and they feature 2 steam counters by default, one 599 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,360 if you crank, which is different than a lot of the bright lights 600 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,360 items that started with one steam counter. 601 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,240 So being able to keep it around for a whole turn cycle even if 602 00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:26,120 you crank it like really changes the math of the card. 603 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:27,800 Makes them a lot stronger a lot of the time. 604 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,040 And they also happen to print them on Blues, which is how you 605 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,440 get to see them in lists. They were like, let's make a 606 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,440 good crank card for all of our mechanologist players. 607 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,800 Yeah, well, I think also people really liked blue for items 608 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:45,880 because items can't block and often times you want to pitch a 609 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,720 blue anyway. So it was like, oh, I can't play 610 00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:50,880 this item, but it's my pitch outlet. 611 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,040 And so I still feel like I'm it's, it's a good card in my 612 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:55,680 hand. Yep. 613 00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:00,800 Yeah, one of the worst things in Dash IO was items in your hand 614 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,800 felt terrible. Items on top of your deck were 615 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,360 insane. Yeah, they were the best cards 616 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,600 ever. Like as soon as you drew them, 617 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,720 it was like, oh, I don't want this in my hand. 618 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,840 It's like reaping what you sow You're like, I'm going to put 30 619 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,880 items in my deck. Hell yeah, I'm getting all these 620 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,200 items off the top. What are all these items doing 621 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:22,560 in my hand? Do you think in high seas we're 622 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,400 going to see more crank items with two steam counters, or do 623 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,680 you think that's too too dangerous for limited play? 624 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,320 It'd be a little spooky. I mean it depends on how they 625 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,400 balance them of course. But like the two, the two steam 626 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:37,800 counter thing got me like thinking where it's like if you 627 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,520 had quantum processor with two steam counters, the one that 628 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,680 lets you just instant speed put items into play and that has two 629 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,920 steam counters at the start, that really feels like a very 630 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:49,840 different card. Yeah, like I hate playing one 631 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:51,960 item to potentially play 2 items from hand. 632 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:53,680 It just doesn't seem like good value to me. 633 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,920 But like give me the least the possibility that I can maybe get 634 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,400 4 items out of it. But putting an extra Steam 635 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:05,080 counter on, now we're talking. Yeah, like that I was, I was 636 00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:08,520 very surprised when processor had two steam counters on it 637 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,960 because I was like the cerebellum processor. 638 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:18,840 Yeah, Cerebellum processor. Sorry, that is just way, way 639 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,320 more impactful because you get 2 full turns of trying to set up 640 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,200 for it. Yeah, for it to be good. 641 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:31,880 Like it's, it's insane. So crank items are kind of a way 642 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,600 for the to power up the next turn or two. 643 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,680 I also want to highlight channel cards like Channel not Heroic, 644 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,880 Channel, Lightning Valley, Channel Lake, Friendship, you 645 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:49,120 know all the good ones. The fact that it's a, an aura, 646 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:50,760 some of them even like cost something. 647 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,720 So you're already like spending a card, maybe 2 cards to put 648 00:37:53,720 --> 00:37:56,400 them down, but they give you that reoccurring value over 649 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,040 time. The longer you can keep them 650 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,360 around, the better it is. And they've balanced it with 651 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,800 this channel mechanic where every turn I keep it around is 652 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,800 more difficult. You have to sync a little bit 653 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,480 more of your investment plan a little bit more of your turn in 654 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,200 order to make that happen. And sometimes you're like not 655 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,440 able to keep it around. You only have one Earth card in 656 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,080 hand. You don't get another turn of 657 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:20,960 Channel Mountain Heroic. But it also, I think it's very 658 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,160 interesting how these cards don't actually have a higher 659 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:28,920 resource cost to keep around. You can still use those three 660 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,320 resources, 6 resources, 9 resources however you like. 661 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,160 You just actually have to find a way to spend them, otherwise you 662 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,160 might not get the opportunity to pitch those cards. 663 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,640 Yeah. One thing that I, I, I really 664 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,880 like now that we've gotten to channel cards, because I kind of 665 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,320 want to see if we can define sort of what this pitch is 666 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,960 trying to talk about, which is cards that don't give endless 667 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:55,920 reoccurring value, but they can give continual value over the 668 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,880 turns that they exist, right? You could even say that like 669 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,760 crank cards and channel cards have this common thread where 670 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,320 the next each turn that you want to keep it around is going to be 671 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,920 harder than the last. You know keeping a crank item 672 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,520 for like an extra turn is going to be more difficult than 673 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:14,920 keeping around for the turn prior. 674 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,600 Yes, right. I, I, I see what you're saying. 675 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,560 It's hard because I don't think about keeping them around. 676 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,960 I want I'm focusing on like value per turn, right. 677 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:31,920 So like boom grenade with a steam counter on it can threaten 678 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:38,240 for value on an on hit over two turns and that's very strong, 679 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,440 but you may have to crank it. And when you do now it only 680 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,440 provides it for one turn. Yeah, yeah. 681 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,840 That on head is only active for one turn, even though in both 682 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,920 instances it only provides for value, which is slightly 683 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:55,360 different than the channel cards where let's look at like channel 684 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,280 the Millennium tree. The first turn you play it, it 685 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,760 amps 3, and then if you keep it around, it amps 3 again. 686 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,520 And then if you keep it around again, it amps 3 again. 687 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,280 That's 9 value. But there's a chance that you 688 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,560 only keep it around for one turn, and you only get the three 689 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,080 value out of that card. Sure. 690 00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:16,880 I definitely remember like introducing myself to 691 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,080 competitive play through Briar and just loving that feeling of 692 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,600 like sticking a mountain on the field and trying to get as much 693 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,320 value out of that mountain as I can. 694 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,120 You know, if I can pitch a red to keep it around another turn, 695 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,880 I might be willing to do that because I'm getting my value 696 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,560 from my cards, not from the pitch value, but just from being 697 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,960 able to maintain the board state and giving +3 to all my attacks. 698 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:43,960 You know, I also find it to be a really enticing design. 699 00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:47,160 Like regardless of how strong the card really is, I think it's 700 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,800 a really enticing quest to ask a player to go through like, hey, 701 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,240 can you pitch cards? Because you might get crazy 702 00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:56,840 value by doing that. How long can you keep me around, 703 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:58,280 huh? How long do you think you can 704 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:02,120 give value out of me? It makes people want to like go 705 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,280 to their deck builder and like how much value can I get out of 706 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,960 Channel Thunder Step? It's really hard because there's 707 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:09,120 only so many cards that are used. 708 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,000 It's not a good game plan. Do you have a favorite channel 709 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,120 card Smurf? I mean, I mean it's channel like 710 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:16,480 friendship. Oh yeah, channel like 711 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,640 friendship. Yeah, Icelander player over here 712 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,040 like. I was, I was an Icelander 713 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:26,000 player. Like that card was just so good. 714 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,720 It did like everything the deck wanted and it worked with every 715 00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:33,800 other card just beautifully. And like it was when you got to 716 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:38,880 like play it on their turn and then send like a wounded bowl 717 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,400 pitching an ice card and you arsenaled a Nathan ice vein for 718 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:46,480 the next turn so that you had the pitch outlet plus the waning 719 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,200 moon pitch outlet to keep channel round. 720 00:41:49,720 --> 00:41:52,080 It was fantastic. And if you ever hit like ice 721 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:56,160 eternal with triple blue ice cards the turn after then you 722 00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:00,320 were just like. And being able so good to play 723 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,840 it on your opponent's turn, basically like you get to have 724 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,840 value out of it on the turn 0 that you play, yeah. 725 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,560 You get. You get like the two turns of 726 00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:11,680 value while only having to pitch. 727 00:42:11,720 --> 00:42:17,240 Once Icelander is pretty clever, I guess for being able to do 728 00:42:17,240 --> 00:42:21,200 that. One thing I also like about the 729 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,600 channel design is how it it tells your opponent like hey, 730 00:42:24,720 --> 00:42:26,880 like if you put enough pressure on me, it's going to be harder 731 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,480 for me to use this. Like if Fryer plays channel mat 732 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,680 heroic, that's when you want to try to use CNC or erase face to 733 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:34,720 stop them from being able to use it anymore. 734 00:42:34,720 --> 00:42:37,200 You know, it's a lot harder to really use channel mat heroic 735 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,760 when you're destroying the arsenal to so she can't use A5 736 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,600 card hand or a race case. So she literally either has to 737 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:47,440 give you 2 of her cards which all of her cards are now higher 738 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,840 value than normal because of having a channel out. 739 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,560 You know, but giving up two of those cards just to keep it 740 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,640 around it makes the value proposition a lot worse. 741 00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,160 Yeah. And it's also like it's a very, 742 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,080 very clear signal, right? Like it's not ambiguous. 743 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:02,840 It's like, I'm going to be trying to do a lot. 744 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,840 So if you can push through right now, it'll be better for you to 745 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:10,680 do it now than later, yeah. Also very very notably with 746 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:15,680 these semi permanent cards is that you can't interact with 747 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,040 them in the same way as you can with illusionists. 748 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:19,920 Right? With the illusionist designs we 749 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,720 were saying war just destroys itself like allies you can 750 00:43:23,720 --> 00:43:26,160 attack, Spectra you can target and destroy. 751 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,040 These don't have that. You need cards that specifically 752 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,480 say like destroy an aura or like put an aura to the bottom of 753 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,600 their deck, return to their hand, whatever the case may be. 754 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,400 You need things that specifically interact with that 755 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,800 card type and those aren't always well distributed right 756 00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,400 now. I remember when Dash IO was 757 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:50,240 looking a little scary in the Rosetta meta that like Aurora's 758 00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:54,520 were running smashing good time as their generic like anti item 759 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:58,040 tech. Oh yeah, I think I'd be pretty 760 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,440 happy if there was more counter play options just kind of 761 00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:05,000 scattered throughout the game, be it like many classes having 762 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,120 different counter play cards or hate cards or maybe a couple 763 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,920 generic options even. I think it'd generally be like 764 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:13,760 better if there was less polarizing matchups in the game. 765 00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:15,280 That's my take. I think they're always going to 766 00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:20,680 be there, and that's OK, but I think like, it's not a healthy 767 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,560 thing to strive for to have those polarizing match ups where 768 00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:25,120 you just don't have the tools to win. 769 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,160 So if this hero's good right now, he should probably just not 770 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,840 play a hero that sucks into that match up, you know? 771 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,320 I mean, I think we're going to be seeing some of that as well 772 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:40,080 with like there we're going to have a graveyard base deck and 773 00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,680 there's already a decent number of graveyard hate options even 774 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:47,000 at generic so. Yeah, yeah. 775 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,080 I think there's. Run gamekeeping, right? 776 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:52,920 Yeah, great. Gravekeeping's the solution. 777 00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:55,400 I mean, I think it's not nothing. 778 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:57,360 Yeah, yeah. When they can't play their stuff 779 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,440 as instance like. When necromancer has like an 780 00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,480 entire dude in his graveyard ready to go, like banishing with 781 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,880 gravekeeping is pretty real. This set is so interesting 782 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,160 because we're going to get a gold base set, a graveyard base 783 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:15,600 set, and like allies, there are. And items. 784 00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,520 And items. Oh yeah, and just items. 785 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:23,600 So like there's about 3 to 4 axes in which we could just see 786 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,560 more hate cards be printed for classes. 787 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,680 And I wonder if they're going to go for it. 788 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:33,240 They might not, you know, they may want, because at the end of 789 00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:37,280 the day, you also don't want a deck that's just like 20 hate 790 00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,080 cards. As a Guardian player, that's how 791 00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,280 sometimes I have to feel like I construct my deck. 792 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,120 It's just like, well, everybody's annoying and I have 793 00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,720 really good hate cards. So I guess I just need to run 794 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:49,640 all of my really good hate cards. 795 00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:51,960 And like, then I just have to shuffle. 796 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,200 And sometimes I end up in a matchup where it's like, well, I 797 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:59,560 guess I have to run Weakest Link into Slippy because I just want 798 00:45:59,720 --> 00:46:01,680 a card. This does nothing against you, 799 00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,160 but like, I need 60. Yeah. 800 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,640 How do we feel about these semi permanent designs? 801 00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:09,600 I kind of feel like it's a really healthy spot. 802 00:46:09,720 --> 00:46:11,840 If you're going to have a board state, it should be tough to 803 00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:13,280 maintain. You have to do effort to 804 00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,080 maintain it and you want to get that repeated value that breaks 805 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,480 the math of the game. You got to feel really good for 806 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:19,680 it. You got to go through that quest 807 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:22,200 in order to like give you that sense of pride and 808 00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:26,360 accomplishment, you know? What do you guys think? 809 00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,840 Yeah. I mean, I think it is one of the 810 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,080 ways they get to balance it, especially when there are things 811 00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:33,600 that are much harder to interact with. 812 00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:40,040 Like they for the first set of stuff they that is basically 813 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,200 would stay around indefinitely. They have to have a way to 814 00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,320 interact with it otherwise it doesn't work. 815 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,400 But when you give these things that are going to last two or 816 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:52,920 three turns or one or two turns even, like if there's, if they, 817 00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,480 if they're hard to interact with, that can be fine as long 818 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,160 as the effect isn't too crazy. Like channel like frigid can 819 00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,720 definitely be oppressive for some stuff, but you know, 820 00:47:01,720 --> 00:47:03,120 there's an expiration date on it. 821 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:07,360 You know it's going to disappear and that you can bide your time 822 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:11,040 until it does. So I, I think I think they've 823 00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,000 learned a lot and they've kind of shown that where it's like 824 00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,200 channel Lightning Valley compared to channel like Frigid 825 00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,600 in its most powerful heroes are still drastically different in 826 00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,560 their impact levels, where Lightning Valley does not feel 827 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:27,080 nearly as bad to play against as channel like Frigid from 828 00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:28,960 Icelander. I love that as an example. 829 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,840 I think they're very skill expressive cards and that's 830 00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,160 probably my favorite aspect of. Oh yeah, both. 831 00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:36,040 Playing into and against these things. 832 00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:40,400 Yeah, awesome. So I think that's about all I 833 00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:44,120 wanted to say for yellow pitch. Clark, I think you've got a cool 834 00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:48,120 blue pitch lined up for us. I certainly hope it's cool for 835 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,880 blue pitch. I'm talking about one time use 836 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,520 permanence. So this is interesting because 837 00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,760 I'm going to be talking about things like rune chance. 838 00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,360 Whoa whoa whoa, Mark, I just played against rune sack 839 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,240 Florian. Those rune chants didn't go 840 00:48:02,240 --> 00:48:06,720 fucking anywhere. And yes, you are correct, but 841 00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:11,520 they didn't give any value until the turn that they activate. 842 00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,640 So that's really the thing that I'm focusing on here, right? 843 00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:19,120 Even if it can stay on the board for a really really long time, 844 00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:23,720 it only gives you value once. And this is different from the 845 00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:28,120 illusionist auras which are a small amount of constantly 846 00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:32,120 recurring value turn over turn. Or the semi permanence that 847 00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:35,120 Fuzzy was talking about where every turn you keep it around 848 00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:39,440 there's you either guarantee or get a chance of getting that 849 00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:43,360 value out of the card. Here it's you don't really get 850 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,320 the value out of the card sitting there until you do 851 00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:51,320 something with it. So I think rune chants are a 852 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,760 great example of sort of what I'm talking about here. 853 00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,880 They stay on the board, but they need to be consumed to generate 854 00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,840 value. A lot of early items were also 855 00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:02,920 like this, not mechanologist items but generic items. 856 00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,240 Things like energy potion and time snap potion. 857 00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:12,240 Where because with energy potion and time snap potion you have to 858 00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:15,040 spend your whole action point to play them, but then you get no 859 00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,960 value until later you finally activate them for your value. 860 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:23,280 Well, Clark, I do want to put a little bit of a caveat there. 861 00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:27,720 Rune Chants can give you value passively as they stay on the 862 00:49:27,720 --> 00:49:31,520 field without popping. In the case of cost reduction 863 00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,880 cards like reduced to rune Chant or if you're an LL player, you 864 00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,560 can use the chess piece. Let's see pledge sheets 865 00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:40,160 Scaletta. Yeah, the scaletta so that 866 00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,640 you're getting value out of having a lot of runechants in 867 00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:44,480 order to reduce things like Sonata arcanics. 868 00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:46,680 Or you could play like Sonata Galaxia. 869 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:52,000 Yeah, the the non attack action cards that can get cost reduced 870 00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,320 definitely break the mold on this as is reduced runechants. 871 00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,800 I was definitely more thinking of the attack action cards and 872 00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:04,200 even like Runic Reckoning to get the value out of playing it, you 873 00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,480 still need to throw an attack afterwards, which would then 874 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,200 consume the Rin chance. But you're right, you you can 875 00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:11,560 definitely double up on the value. 876 00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:13,680 It's not just the one arcane from them. 877 00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,240 It's also this reduction in resources. 878 00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,320 But a lot of those cards are under rate, right? 879 00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,640 Three for four go again. So you're kind of asking to have 880 00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,000 one on the it's it's OK, you're right. 881 00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,000 It's a it's a very good counterpoint here. 882 00:50:28,720 --> 00:50:33,160 Some other cards that I think fit into this are start of turn 883 00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:35,840 auras. We mostly see these in tokens, 884 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:41,440 things like mite agilities and seismic surges where they are an 885 00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,120 aura that you generate. So it's a permanent, it goes on 886 00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:48,080 to the field, but at the start of turn it destroys itself and 887 00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,560 goes to give you your value. It's a temporary. 888 00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:54,480 It's very temporary, right? But it still provides some 889 00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:59,040 carryover by creating something on the board state which the 890 00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:01,400 opponent can then interact with, right? 891 00:51:02,240 --> 00:51:06,840 If I'm KO and I play Cast Bones to get 6 mites in an agility 892 00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:11,880 token, but then you play Summer's Fall in response to get 893 00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:15,520 rid of my agility token, that's a really good interaction in my 894 00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:16,280 opinion. Right. 895 00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:21,560 Yeah, but if you're relying on that in the matchup, it's not as 896 00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:23,920 good because it's only around for one turn. 897 00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:28,960 This is very different than, say, being able to, say, target 898 00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:34,840 a channel card with your Aura Destruction because you have at 899 00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,040 least a couple of turns to find it and throw it at the opponent. 900 00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:41,880 Or even like a Mara guy. The the either maraud guy the 901 00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:43,440 dragon. Well you can't bottom a dragon 902 00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:49,200 but the the spooky Mystic one. Yeah, anything that stays out 903 00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:54,120 running the hate cards is better into those things because you 904 00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:56,440 have a better chance of actually getting it to line up when you 905 00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:01,040 want it. And against things that are only 906 00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,320 around for one turn, it's it's not as good. 907 00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,320 And these cannot stay on the board, right? 908 00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,160 They are only existing for a single turn. 909 00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,680 And a lot of crank items also exist in this realm, right? 910 00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:16,280 Fuzzy we were talking about, oh, Kevin, you mentioned this card 911 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,800 in the previous bit. It's the card that lets you put 912 00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,080 items into the field directly at instant speed. 913 00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:22,720 Quantum. Processor. 914 00:52:22,720 --> 00:52:24,320 Quantum processor. Thank you. 915 00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:32,760 That's a card that really feels like it's only really probably 916 00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:35,880 getting one activation right most of the time. 917 00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,640 Sometimes it might not, though. You could get one on the turn 918 00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:41,240 you play it and one on your opponent's turn, yeah. 919 00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,720 But it's it's less of that like big carry over. 920 00:52:44,720 --> 00:52:47,960 It feels like it's very restricted to just one turn. 921 00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:53,800 Yeah, because because you're also having to play out Quantum 922 00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:59,400 Processor and then activate it and then like try and cash in an 923 00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,760 action point from this item that you're bringing as an instant. 924 00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,240 Like if you get a full extra turn of that, it lets you use 925 00:53:06,240 --> 00:53:10,800 that so much more fluidly within that within a hand of four 926 00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,600 cards. So like the the difference 927 00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:16,040 between 1:00 and 2:00 steam counters there is huge. 928 00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,200 Definitely. I'm so, so happy you brought 929 00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:22,680 that up. I also want to note that there 930 00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:27,840 is another bit of weirdness. So when we look at Might and 931 00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:32,040 Agility, it also has its counterparts in Courage and 932 00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,360 Quicken tokens. Right now these do not pop at 933 00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:40,160 the start of turn, but they do like rune chance, trigger the 934 00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:41,960 moment that you fulfill their condition. 935 00:53:42,240 --> 00:53:45,520 So once again, sits on the field, can sit on the field for 936 00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:49,080 a long time and can really lead to a punishment, for example. 937 00:53:49,240 --> 00:53:52,720 But like, clash of agility, be careful, yeah. 938 00:53:52,720 --> 00:53:55,680 Clash clash of agility into Necromancer with that seven 939 00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,440 power pirate ship. Definitely not something we're 940 00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:02,360 looking to to rush into. Or a six power ally off the top. 941 00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,480 Yeah, yeah, definitely don't want to give them those those 942 00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:07,800 agilities. But Quickens are very 943 00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:11,800 frustrating because when they can sit on an opponent who is 944 00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,880 looking to block and wait for their moment to go extra wide, 945 00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:18,320 it's a very powerful extra tool for them, right? 946 00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:23,480 And that's sort of what makes Quicken more dangerous than say, 947 00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,560 Agility. With Agility, you have to use it 948 00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:29,400 on that next turn, you have to find yourself in a position to 949 00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:33,480 take advantage of it. But with Quicken it can last 950 00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:35,960 turn over turn until they can get that value. 951 00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,920 Yeah, that was like a huge part of playing heavy hitters limited 952 00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:45,720 was if you just played a wage agility and you wagered the 953 00:54:45,720 --> 00:54:49,720 agility and they had to give you 2 cards to stop it plus an 954 00:54:49,720 --> 00:54:52,440 armor. Like can they even use that 955 00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,200 agility on the next turn or are they just stopping you from 956 00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:59,120 getting it like. I liked how it was less of a 957 00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:02,840 free agility, a free wager when it came to a Warrior because 958 00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:05,680 Warrior could pitch one card and swing for four that you just 959 00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:08,400 gave them the ability to do that, you know, But against 960 00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,640 Brute when they, when they don't have an arsenal or against 961 00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:14,000 Guardian in general, like, yeah, I don't care. 962 00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:17,360 You're not going to be doing anything with this agility. 963 00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:22,760 So I kind of want to ask you guys, how do we feel about these 964 00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:25,600 one time use cards? I think they've traditionally 965 00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:30,640 been seen as less powerful than the flashier Illusionist auras 966 00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:33,960 and perhaps the more synergistic Illusionist auras in board 967 00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:37,640 states. But at the same time, they have 968 00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:40,040 the ability to be quite toxic, right? 969 00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:44,240 Because they have a permanent board state without the ability 970 00:55:44,240 --> 00:55:46,800 to directly interact with them. Very often these things don't 971 00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,560 have Ward, they don't have Spectra, so you can't destroy 972 00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,520 them like you would the same way with an illusionist, but you can 973 00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:55,520 only get the value out of them once. 974 00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:59,360 But that's led to these like toxic OTK style strategies or 975 00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:02,000 turtle burst strategies that we've seen come out with 976 00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:07,400 Visserai last meta and Florian this meta that a lot of people 977 00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:14,280 have sort of rallied against. But harkening back to one of the 978 00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:18,400 talking points in red pitch with Enigma, where it felt like you 979 00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:21,320 were never in a position to actually block Enigma's wards 980 00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:24,160 because you had to convert every hand to offense. 981 00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:28,360 Is this doing a similar thing? I've never thought about it that 982 00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:31,200 way, but it seems like a cogent comparison, you know? 983 00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,560 Yeah, I can't really block OTK Florian, just like I can't block 984 00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:37,120 Enigma. Hey, good $10 word there for me. 985 00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:42,040 And Florian is kind of like less value. 986 00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:45,280 You know, like read the runes is only coming in for three, right. 987 00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,160 You know, I and I don't have go again on it. 988 00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:50,920 I know read the runes isn't like necessarily the best rune chance 989 00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:53,600 stacking card. The best one is channel the 990 00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:55,920 Millennium tree. Actually, it is one. 991 00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:57,880 Of the best. Yeah, yeah. 992 00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:00,360 It's a good one to think about for the equation, but I think 993 00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:02,960 Florian's really using like channel the Millennium tree to 994 00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,080 make it a winning strategy. If it's going to be toxic, 995 00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:08,400 that's where it's going to be. Sure. 996 00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:11,000 Yeah. And using those semi permanent. 997 00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:13,840 So it's not the rune chance that are the problem, it's the 998 00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:16,400 channel that's the problem. Thank you, Fuzzy. 999 00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:19,280 And you know, at least with Enigma I can run whatever 1000 00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:22,200 equipment I want I want. I don't have to take out my 1001 00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,760 gamblers gloves in order to put in arcane barrier. 1002 00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:28,240 All I want to do is run gamblers gloves, let me run gamblers 1003 00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,720 gloves. But no, I have to take it out 1004 00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:35,840 and run my AB1 and against Florian, like with the channel, 1005 00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:37,800 the Millennium tree. I even have to take out my cool 1006 00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:39,520 headpiece and put in like Schoolhorn. 1007 00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:42,520 And so I'm running AB three. You know, I've I've been a brute 1008 00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:44,600 maid for the past month. So those are the only examples 1009 00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:50,520 I'm gonna use. So this is good because now 1010 00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:54,560 we're sort of comparing the two different aura types, right, or 1011 00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:57,280 the two different board state types of semi permanent versus 1012 00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:00,680 one time permanent. The semi permanents sort of have 1013 00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:03,920 a fade out point. Well, these one time permanence 1014 00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:08,920 very often don't have a fade out point, but the semi permanence 1015 00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:12,000 probably generate more value, have the ability to be more 1016 00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:14,600 broken, have the ability to break the math of the game. 1017 00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:18,800 Whereas the one time permanence are very tied to the math of the 1018 00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:22,960 game and it's more about creating offensive or defensive 1019 00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:25,200 overlaps when you finally activate them. 1020 00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:29,160 So what do you guys think about the comparison between the two 1021 00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:32,520 and what do you think is generally healthier for the game 1022 00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:35,000 as it currently stands? And what do you think? 1023 00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:39,880 We need to start addressing what you think is probably more toxic 1024 00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:44,440 about them. I think it's funny to compare 1025 00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:46,680 the two because they, I think they serve very different 1026 00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:49,720 functions in the game. You know, channel, not heroic, 1027 00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:52,480 Channel Lightning Valley and Channel Lake Frigid are all 1028 00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:55,600 build arounds where like they can kind of become your game 1029 00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:58,680 plan to an extent, at least for the terms that they're around. 1030 00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:02,280 Whereas I guess rune chance technically are your game plan, 1031 00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:04,960 but a lot of the other examples of these one time permanence are 1032 00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:08,440 supposed to be like little gravy bonuses that you get to keep 1033 00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:12,160 around. Like do not put your whole game 1034 00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:14,360 plan around them. You know, they are not a win 1035 00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,680 con, but they're just going to kind of help like grease the 1036 00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:20,640 wheel and give you some way of breaking the turn parody a 1037 00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:22,960 little bit. And they're not meant to be 1038 00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:24,880 broken because they're not meant to be really strong. 1039 00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:27,080 You know, they're just kind of going to help your game plan a 1040 00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:28,080 little bit. Sure. 1041 00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:32,280 And again, room chance also like break that because they are 1042 00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:35,840 pretty solid and a lot of room blades really do build around 1043 00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:38,520 them when all these Rosetta cards in limited are like if 1044 00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:41,600 you've dealt arcane damage and like for enchants are one of the 1045 00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:43,960 only ways you can do that arcane damage in limited. 1046 00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:46,600 Yeah. Yeah. 1047 00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:49,840 I mean, I think the the piece that I come back to with this 1048 00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:54,040 that you said is the one time permanence basically never break 1049 00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:57,320 the math because they're one time. 1050 00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:00,960 We can pretty easily face up say what the value of a Reed the 1051 01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:04,040 runes is. Yeah, it's usually 3IN everyone 1052 01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:05,800 and then in viscera is probably 4. 1053 01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:10,880 But then the semi permanent ones, like they start to break 1054 01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:13,840 the math a little bit based on how many terms you can keep it. 1055 01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:16,880 And the better your deck is at keeping it, the more powerful 1056 01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:21,000 that card is. And then we see like we go that 1057 01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,560 step further into the illusionist ones that like just 1058 01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:26,880 fully break the math because that's what they're there for. 1059 01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:31,560 So like I, I think that's like the big distinction that I come 1060 01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:36,480 down to with these is like how is like the the semi permanent, 1061 01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:39,640 like just starting to break the math a little bit and it's how 1062 01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:43,880 much? And then the one times like. 1063 01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:52,200 It's generally very easy to to line it up with to to give it a 1064 01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:57,360 reasonable or. I'm trying to think of a word 1065 01:00:57,360 --> 01:01:00,840 for it like a justifiable mathematical value. 1066 01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:03,680 So here at the end of blue pitch, I feel like I have to 1067 01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:06,120 bring up Gravy Bones because we did that in the other two 1068 01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:10,440 pitches, so why not do it here? And I want to tell everyone, 1069 01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:14,600 hey, keep an eye on those early blue potion items because Gravy 1070 01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:17,960 Bones needs a blue to go to the graveyard to be able to play his 1071 01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:20,880 cards. And these potions seem like they 1072 01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:25,160 are perfectly positioned to just when you need it, send that blue 1073 01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:28,360 to graveyard and get you either action points. 1074 01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:31,480 Which, hey, it's looking like Gravy Bones might need action 1075 01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:33,920 points to be able to use everything really efficiently 1076 01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:38,600 and resources because some of these allies cost a lot. 1077 01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:42,040 What I've really appreciated about this pitch is that we've 1078 01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:46,640 talked through moments where all three of these permanent types 1079 01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:50,680 have sort of demonstrated an ability of running the meta 1080 01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:56,800 because of set up right and that long term perspective of flesh 1081 01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,760 and blood. I know I definitely fell in love 1082 01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:04,040 with evaluating the hand by hand math of flesh and blood, but I 1083 01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:09,840 think that it's this longer term perspective, this idea of 1084 01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:13,200 setting up and being able to properly evaluate how to 1085 01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:17,480 generate those overlaps. Offensive and defensive in such 1086 01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:21,840 a way that lets you actually win the game. 1087 01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:26,600 The days are gone where you are winning the game by throwing 8 1088 01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:29,760 would dominate. That is just not really how most 1089 01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:34,000 games end anymore. It's by throwing 20 on a turn 1090 01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:36,920 and just overwhelming anything the opponent could conceivably 1091 01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:41,200 block. Sure, and permanence are how you 1092 01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:44,760 do that. I think everyone can learn from 1093 01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:47,560 watching decks how they use permanence, how they play around 1094 01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:51,480 permanence, and how they are able to generate these turns. 1095 01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:55,280 Awesome. Well said Clark. 1096 01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:59,120 Yeah, I think that's all I have for blue pitch. 1097 01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:02,440 I think it's time to move to our arse. 1098 01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:04,480 Correct me if I'm wrong here, Fuzzy. 1099 01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:08,840 It's pronounced Arsenal zone. No, I think we just say Arsenal. 1100 01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:12,000 Arsenal Arsenal The Arsenal zone. 1101 01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:18,520 The Arsenal zone is the part of our show where we shout out a 1102 01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:20,960 card and then we've been thinking about lately for 1103 01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:23,640 whatever reason we want. Yeah, this can be a card you 1104 01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:25,880 love, a card you hate, a card you love to hate. 1105 01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:29,440 We like to start off the Arsenal Zone by shouting out a card 1106 01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:32,680 selected by one of our patrons. That's right, if you subscribe 1107 01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:36,000 to our Patreon, you too can be a part of our show by giving us 1108 01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:38,000 cards to shout out right here in the Arsenal Zone. 1109 01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:44,400 And for today's episode, the winner is Thanks for All noise, 1110 01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:48,400 Draken. Draken wanted to shout out 1111 01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:52,280 Frailty Trap because quote because it's a really good card 1112 01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:56,400 and because it dot dot dot it's good into Ranger. 1113 01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:04,240 Frailty trap is a red 0 cost assassin Ranger defense reaction 1114 01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:08,080 subtype trap. It blocks 3 and says When this 1115 01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:11,640 defends an attack with go again create a frailty token under the 1116 01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:18,000 attacking heroes control. This is a very very strong trap. 1117 01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:23,840 I really enjoyed this set of trap designs because back in the 1118 01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:26,920 back at this time we didn't have a lot of 0 for three defense 1119 01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:29,560 reactions. It was all sync blows and fate 1120 01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:34,040 for scenes, and so when frailty trap, it was a 0 for three that 1121 01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:39,320 could give for value if they end up attacking with that card with 1122 01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:43,800 go again from Arsenal or a weapon with go again or even 1123 01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:46,240 something with go again into one of those two things, right. 1124 01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:48,800 The frailty trap would then give the -1 value. 1125 01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:52,440 Sometimes it wouldn't though, And so it felt very nicely match 1126 01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:56,440 up dependent and I it's, it's a really, really great design. 1127 01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:59,280 And of course as Riptide you get an extra ping damage so you 1128 01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:02,680 could even get more value. 5 value off of a trap. 1129 01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:07,560 God damn did. You want to say anything about 1130 01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:11,200 this card, Smurf? I mean, it's just a really solid 1131 01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:16,680 card and as long as we have heroes that use a pair of one 1132 01:05:16,680 --> 01:05:19,240 handed weapon, it's going to it's going to be good because 1133 01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:21,920 they have to be able to give those weapons go again to use 1134 01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:23,320 both of them. And then you're going to get 1135 01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:26,640 double value on it. Like it's a card you're pretty 1136 01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:29,160 much always going to see in any deck that wants to run traps. 1137 01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:33,040 It's just solid sneaky interaction. 1138 01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:37,200 The block of insets go again rungate card with this and then 1139 01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:40,720 the frailty trap means that they can't attack with the flail 1140 01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:42,400 anymore cuz it only comes in for one. 1141 01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:46,560 Yeah, cuz the flail will be 0, yeah. 1142 01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:50,400 Yep. Yeah, they still might swing out 1143 01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:52,080 if they wanted. To. 1144 01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:54,160 Yeah, they'll probably do that for the synergy. 1145 01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:57,760 They they might. Pay one deal 0. 1146 01:05:57,760 --> 01:06:00,560 That'd be funny, yeah. But I, I love how this just hits 1147 01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:03,960 a lot of matchups, right? So many decks have go again and 1148 01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:07,000 so many decks are looking to follow up that go again with 1149 01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:09,000 their weapons or a card from Arsenal, right? 1150 01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:12,640 I do it all the time. Like I've had a lot of turns 1151 01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:16,120 into a into assassins where I've like zealous belting from 1152 01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:19,280 Arsenal into a hammer swing. And when they block that zealous 1153 01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:21,840 belting with the frailty trap, I'm like buck buck. 1154 01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:24,120 They got so much value out of this one card. 1155 01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:26,840 It's probably one of the best, probably the best common trap 1156 01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:29,160 from the cycle. There was blood rot trap and 1157 01:06:29,160 --> 01:06:32,120 inertia trap, an inertia trap triggering on the greater 1158 01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:35,600 greater powers. And Blood Ross on reactions. 1159 01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:39,320 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great shadow it was. 1160 01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:41,560 Definitely the most, definitely the most consistent. 1161 01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:45,440 Awesome. Yeah, thank you for your card 1162 01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:50,160 suggestion, Drigven. A reminder to everyone at our 1163 01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:53,880 Patreon at the $5 tier, you can suggest a card to be mentioned 1164 01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:58,120 here in the Arsenal zone. And once you submit your 1165 01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:00,200 suggestion, we keep it. It does. 1166 01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:01,640 It doesn't reset every single week. 1167 01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:04,040 We hold on to these. I think this one was suggested 1168 01:07:04,040 --> 01:07:06,720 like a month or so ago. They don't go anywhere. 1169 01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:09,640 They don't go anywhere, we keep them around and so the more 1170 01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:12,520 cards you put in, the longer you're with us, the better 1171 01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:14,240 chance that you'll get a card in. 1172 01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:19,920 With all that being said, let's move on to our Arsenal Zone 1173 01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:21,040 cards. Fuzzy. 1174 01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:23,240 A little birdie told me that you wanted to go. 1175 01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:26,240 First, I think that Birdie literally was Clark. 1176 01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:27,840 I think Clark wanted me to go first. 1177 01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:35,080 Because I said it just now so. I have a tradition on the show 1178 01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:38,840 of whenever I shout out a card, I also sign a copy and give it 1179 01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:40,640 to each of the other people on the episode. 1180 01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:43,200 So Smurf the card that I'm shouting out. 1181 01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:46,400 I will give a copy to you the next time I see you with my 1182 01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:48,520 signature on it. To make it worse, you know. 1183 01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:53,960 Worse. Hey I'm just able to up charge 1184 01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:58,240 for one of these. The card that I really want to 1185 01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:03,200 talk about today is Thick Hide Hunter Majestic. 1186 01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:05,960 Thick Hide Hunter I think is real. 1187 01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:08,760 I've been shouting out Reiner cards for the last like 3 weeks 1188 01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:12,520 and I'm not done. But I think Thick hide hunter is 1189 01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:14,880 really interesting because it's a way for them to give a 1190 01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:17,960 defensive tool to what is inherently an aggressive 1191 01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:20,520 concept. Like if you're saying hey brute 1192 01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:24,560 run as many cards with six power as you can, that has to be 1193 01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:30,040 aggressive at like most and mid range at least, you know, Like 1194 01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:32,960 how am I supposed to run 6 powered attacks as many as I 1195 01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:35,479 possibly can and then still keep my defense up? 1196 01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:38,200 You know, the six powered attacks probably aren't going to 1197 01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:41,080 block for more than three. Every time I run a defense 1198 01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:45,439 reaction, every time I run like like No Fear that instant that 1199 01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:48,120 banishes cards in order to like that's another defensive tool 1200 01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:51,439 that plays with sixes, but it's not literally a six power 1201 01:08:51,439 --> 01:08:55,080 defense card. Thick Height Hunter is a yellow 1202 01:08:55,080 --> 01:08:59,680 2 cost, 6 power 6 block brute attack action, and when this 1203 01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:03,439 attacks or defends, discard a random card as a triggered 1204 01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:06,680 ability, not as a cost. So if you're able to dump your 1205 01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:09,600 hand on something and then block with this card, you're blocking 1206 01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:12,680 for six with one card with no downside other than, you know, 1207 01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:13,560 you have to get rid of your hand. 1208 01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:17,479 It's also nice because if you attack with your whole hand and 1209 01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:20,040 then attack with this, you can't attack for six without needing 1210 01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:22,640 that other card. Or if you need this to be your 1211 01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:24,840 one attack on the turn and you're looking for the discard 1212 01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:28,200 synergies, then you can also attack with this, get your 1213 01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:30,800 discard off of it, and get your synergy there. 1214 01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:34,479 It's a really flexible utility piece and because it's a yellow 1215 01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:37,760 2 cost that is. Nice. 1216 01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:41,240 When I first saw this card spoiled, I was like, isn't it 1217 01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:43,319 awkward? Like isn't it weird to have this 1218 01:09:43,319 --> 01:09:47,000 card that you can't use unless you either pitch it for two or 1219 01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:49,760 you have to discard a card you it feels like you'd have to 1220 01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:51,680 fumble around it to you make good use of it. 1221 01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:54,000 But I've been pleasantly surprised by how easy it is. 1222 01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:56,280 You know, on a blood rush bellows turn, I can pitch it to 1223 01:09:56,280 --> 01:09:58,440 claw or I can play it as the last attack. 1224 01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:02,640 If somebody is attacking me with dominate or overpower, I can 1225 01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:07,040 just block for six and this card, a card and I'm effectively 1226 01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:09,280 blocking with two cards on something where I normally 1227 01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:11,560 wouldn't be able to. You know, I'm still able to get 1228 01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:13,720 value just by getting around evasion. 1229 01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:17,600 And you know, I hate Azalea. I will lose to Azalea most of 1230 01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:20,440 the time, but being able to throw a six block in front of 1231 01:10:20,440 --> 01:10:24,320 one of Azalea's cards, even with a card, again, it is a six 1232 01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:26,840 powered card. I don't have to run a lower 1233 01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:29,880 density of sixes in order to get around this evasion. 1234 01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:34,640 You know, it's a defensive tool with a stat line that is really 1235 01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:36,960 hard to make defensive tools for, and that's what I 1236 01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:40,360 appreciate about this card. Yeah, it's also one of the first 1237 01:10:40,480 --> 01:10:45,280 action cards that doesn't have 3-2 or zero printed in the 1238 01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:49,040 bottom right, which opens up a really interesting design space. 1239 01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:51,680 Yep. So I'm excited to see if Brute 1240 01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:54,680 gets more of these kind of tools in the future, and I'm going to 1241 01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:56,480 sign a copy and give to each of you. 1242 01:10:57,080 --> 01:11:01,080 It's also a card that like the Brute discord on the the brute 1243 01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:04,040 channel on the purple discord has all been like really happy 1244 01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:09,560 with it at 2 copies, you know, like running 3 copies is a lot 1245 01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:11,560 easier for them to clump up together and like you're like, 1246 01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:13,960 oh, what do I do with two thick kite hunters but like pitch one 1247 01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:14,920 to attack with. The other one. 1248 01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:17,400 I guess, but then like you have to get something to get rid of 1249 01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:19,440 the other two cards somehow. Yeah, Block. 1250 01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:21,960 I'm sure some people are happy with three. 1251 01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:23,720 I've been running two and I've been really happy with it. 1252 01:11:23,720 --> 01:11:26,320 You know, some cards are just really nice at 2 copies. 1253 01:11:26,320 --> 01:11:29,360 You know they can be perfect for 2 copies you're really happy to 1254 01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:31,600 have, but you don't want a third copy. 1255 01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:34,640 You know, like that one friend that you like, love to death, 1256 01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:37,480 but you're like, you know what, 2 copies of this brand is 1257 01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:40,360 enough. What do I feel like you're 1258 01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:41,760 talking about me? No, no, no. 1259 01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:47,400 Clark, you are three copies, maybe even 4 copies of In My 1260 01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:49,720 Life. We have a podcast together for 1261 01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:53,640 crying out loud. I'm running at least 5 copies of 1262 01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:59,760 Clark. Kevin, what do you think of 1263 01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:02,600 Thick Eyed Hunter? Or if you don't have a lot of 1264 01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:04,880 thoughts about Thick Eyed Hunter, what do you think about 1265 01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:08,920 action cards getting bigger block values than just three? 1266 01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:12,840 I mean, I thought it was a really cool design when I saw 1267 01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:15,720 it. It was like, that's a really 1268 01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:20,360 flexible card and it has all the things on it that Brute wants, 1269 01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:22,840 which doesn't necessarily mean it would fit. 1270 01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:25,480 We've seen a lot of cards where there's a lot of words on it and 1271 01:12:25,480 --> 01:12:27,880 all the words look good and then they don't combine well. 1272 01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:31,720 But I I was very curious to see where that card ended up because 1273 01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:33,760 it was just. It was interesting. 1274 01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:35,960 Yeah. Like, it kind of broke the 1275 01:12:35,960 --> 01:12:38,520 rules, but not in the way where it looked like it would break 1276 01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:39,760 the game. Yeah. 1277 01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:44,640 So I, I, I hadn't played against it or seen it really, but I know 1278 01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:47,720 that Dex had been really happy with it. 1279 01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:52,960 Dex fan he he really liked it and I think he was it too as 1280 01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:55,640 well. Like the the card is just like 1281 01:12:55,720 --> 01:13:01,240 really cool design where it's not pushed, it's not broken, but 1282 01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:06,800 it's just like interesting and it makes you like, it doesn't 1283 01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:10,520 really make you like work for it, but like, I don't know, it 1284 01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:13,040 just does something that other card that no other card does. 1285 01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:16,320 I've had really fun turns where like Florian will play like 1286 01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:19,440 felling of the crown at me with like some rune chants on it and 1287 01:13:19,440 --> 01:13:20,920 they're like surely I'm leaking damage. 1288 01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:22,760 It's three rune chants on felling of the crown and I'm 1289 01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:29,000 like pitch to failing bottom of card like block 9 I get to with 1290 01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:31,480 the thick kite hunter so I'm not taking any damage. 1291 01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:34,640 You thought you could leak some and then I still lose the game 1292 01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:39,080 because they have the tempo. But you know, awesome. 1293 01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:40,920 Clark, what card do you wanna shout out today? 1294 01:13:41,440 --> 01:13:43,840 I wanna shout out Deadwood Dirge. 1295 01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:46,600 I'm pretty sure I've already done this card because I'm kind 1296 01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:50,480 of a Room Blade fanatic, but Deadwood Dirge is a card that I 1297 01:13:50,480 --> 01:13:54,120 kind of consistently return to and go God, this is so fucking 1298 01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:57,920 cool. Like they made a read the runes 1299 01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:00,440 with a go again, right? You have to destroy an aura. 1300 01:14:00,440 --> 01:14:03,440 If that aura is a rune chant, then you only net two other rune 1301 01:14:03,440 --> 01:14:05,640 chants. But there's all these fringe 1302 01:14:05,640 --> 01:14:08,320 cases where you can get the three rune chants out of it. 1303 01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:12,200 It feels really, really nice if I'm destroying like a disease 1304 01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:15,720 token that was given to me by a by a nasty little frailty trap 1305 01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:20,960 or, you know, I'm destroying my room blood incantation, which is 1306 01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:25,400 worded in such a weird way that it just like has one turn where 1307 01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:27,160 it's sitting with no counters on it. 1308 01:14:27,440 --> 01:14:29,640 So I can target it with my Deadwood urge then. 1309 01:14:30,600 --> 01:14:34,600 So there's all sorts of little fringe cases where I or soul 1310 01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:37,840 shackles. So I guess the card I'm actually 1311 01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:40,360 talking about is Soul Shackles, because I really want them to 1312 01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:43,240 like give soul shackles to Vincet. 1313 01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:45,880 I don't want to give soul shackles to Vincent. 1314 01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:49,120 But like, she kind of needs a way to fill up great, fill up 1315 01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:51,520 her vanish zone more consistently, she does. 1316 01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:53,520 Soul. Shackles are not it, but it's 1317 01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:56,680 random and the soul shackle isn't the one that gives Go 1318 01:14:56,720 --> 01:14:57,640 again too. Much. 1319 01:14:58,360 --> 01:15:01,600 It's too much. But it's also like, it'd be a 1320 01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:04,040 really cool thing to be able to target with Deadwood dirt. 1321 01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:08,160 So like I could control the rate of which I'm fatiguing myself. 1322 01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:12,360 Like I'm giving up the ability to feel fill my blood debt, but 1323 01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:14,640 like I get an extra rune chant out of it. 1324 01:15:15,480 --> 01:15:18,400 It's cool. Yeah, Chain would agree with 1325 01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:21,640 you. In LL you start doing that a 1326 01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:25,040 lot. But he can get so many right? 1327 01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:26,360 Like. Yes. 1328 01:15:26,600 --> 01:15:30,280 Like I think it's definitely one of those effects where like it 1329 01:15:30,280 --> 01:15:33,960 should be gated and clearly LSS is terrified of this interaction 1330 01:15:34,240 --> 01:15:38,600 because they banned Deadwood dirge in Project Blue but it's 1331 01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:41,720 not banning commoner yet. I think because they're scared 1332 01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:46,680 of the rares specifically and like how much extra value those 1333 01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:50,280 generate. But God I just really love the 1334 01:15:50,280 --> 01:15:54,480 interactions with Deadwood dirge but LSS seems really scared of 1335 01:15:54,480 --> 01:16:00,320 it generating 3 value in any consistent way so it's going to 1336 01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:02,200 be interesting to see. I've even heard some people call 1337 01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:03,760 for banning it and living legend. 1338 01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:07,520 Wow, I. Know my silly little rare? 1339 01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:10,760 Also, the art's dope. Look at that guy banging away at 1340 01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:13,920 the keyboards screaming his heart out. 1341 01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:18,240 I think they're also like other there's a couple other 1342 01:16:18,240 --> 01:16:20,480 interactions that are really funny with that card, which is 1343 01:16:20,480 --> 01:16:22,640 you can dirge a hypothermia. Yeah. 1344 01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:26,320 Oh man, has any? Affliction aura which? 1345 01:16:26,320 --> 01:16:30,320 So if Icelander comes back, you can also dirge a frost hex. 1346 01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:35,280 Oh man, hell yeah. Really cool interactions. 1347 01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:40,280 Yeah, no, the Deb Deborah Durge is such a sick card. 1348 01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:44,520 Like when they when they spoiled that in Rosetta Season. 1349 01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:46,960 We're just looking at it like this. 1350 01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:51,640 This card's nuts. This card is so good for Vincet 1351 01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:55,400 because it is read the runes with go again for Vincet because 1352 01:16:55,400 --> 01:16:59,280 you get the one from Vincet and you turn that into 3 and that's 1353 01:16:59,280 --> 01:17:01,640 your real chance for the turn. And then you're just on like A2 1354 01:17:01,640 --> 01:17:07,160 card 9 for that turn cycle. And it's just is the 1355 01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:10,240 interactions that are so cool without it, the numbers on it 1356 01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:13,120 being busted. Kind of a theme. 1357 01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:14,800 Let's see if we can keep it going. 1358 01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:22,120 Kevin, what do you got? So I I've picked Invoke Shariah, 1359 01:17:22,440 --> 01:17:31,960 never mind it's and it really came back on my radar when we 1360 01:17:31,960 --> 01:17:35,040 got war cry of feminists. Oh. 1361 01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:41,680 Because Invoke Shrya is A2 cost light illusionist action 1362 01:17:41,680 --> 01:17:45,400 invocation. Cast it targeting A spectral 1363 01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:48,080 shield and transform it into Shrya Archangel of Knowledge 1364 01:17:48,080 --> 01:17:50,720 which is the standard 4/4 with ward 4. 1365 01:17:51,320 --> 01:17:55,240 Paid 2 to attack with it. Yeah, this was the first Angel 1366 01:17:55,240 --> 01:17:57,560 that we ever saw, right? This was the. 1367 01:17:57,560 --> 01:18:02,920 First yeah, this was the first Angel and like ward ally the of 1368 01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:05,720 the four four set that we would see it would be in dynasty like 1369 01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:08,120 2 sets before new prison would come out. 1370 01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:16,680 And it has the text of whenever Sharia deals damage, you gain 1371 01:18:16,680 --> 01:18:22,600 that much life once return action pay to to attack whenever 1372 01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:24,360 it's tax. You may banish a light card from 1373 01:18:24,360 --> 01:18:28,840 your hero's soul if you do deal one arcane to any target, which 1374 01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:31,360 is also going to be nifty. Maybe for gravy bones. 1375 01:18:31,400 --> 01:18:33,360 You can also bolt the. Bird. 1376 01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:36,200 You can bolt the bird. I think there's better 1377 01:18:36,200 --> 01:18:38,280 interactions for that for the bird though. 1378 01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:44,520 But this gets really funny when you just play a war cry in front 1379 01:18:44,520 --> 01:18:48,120 of its attack and suddenly it's attacking for eight with life 1380 01:18:48,120 --> 01:18:49,400 Link. Oh Gee. 1381 01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:54,280 Oh my God, yeah. Yeah, that was like the 1382 01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:57,120 interaction for me where it's like that's where a war cry gets 1383 01:18:57,120 --> 01:19:00,000 really interesting. And it's because Shreya has this 1384 01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:04,000 text that interacts with other stuff in the same way that like 1385 01:19:04,360 --> 01:19:08,520 this is the same text that Scepter has and Krakens Aether 1386 01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:12,160 Vane had, where it's like it's just set up to when you can buff 1387 01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:15,920 this one day, it's it can do really crazy stuff. 1388 01:19:16,120 --> 01:19:21,680 And Shreya by itself is you pay, you have the Shreya card, you 1389 01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:24,000 pay 2 to flip and you pay 2 to attack. 1390 01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:28,400 And you're getting, you're threatening A3 card 12, we'll 1391 01:19:28,400 --> 01:19:30,720 call it -1 because you have to give up a spectral shield. 1392 01:19:31,040 --> 01:19:33,800 But you're attacking for four, you're life linking for four. 1393 01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:36,360 And then you have word for. Oh yeah, yeah. 1394 01:19:36,440 --> 01:19:38,960 It's an Angel attack that you have to block. 1395 01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:42,680 And we talked about how people don't want to be blocking 1396 01:19:42,680 --> 01:19:47,280 angels. Now add 1 more card and add 8. 1397 01:19:47,480 --> 01:19:51,880 Oh my goodness. I don't wanna. 1398 01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:57,160 This like it's this card has been so close to going back into 1399 01:19:57,160 --> 01:20:02,520 my prism deck for since Haunted came out because War Cry is so 1400 01:20:02,520 --> 01:20:05,240 interesting and war Cry by itself is a crazy card. 1401 01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:09,480 It's a 0 for four go again three block light yellow. 1402 01:20:10,280 --> 01:20:12,160 Yeah, those are. That's a really good stat line. 1403 01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:15,680 That sounds really good. Illusionist gets a like. 0 for 1404 01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:19,760 four pump on a yellow on a block 3 just because angels are hard 1405 01:20:19,760 --> 01:20:24,280 to get out I guess. Yes, yeah, like that's and it 1406 01:20:24,280 --> 01:20:31,440 still doesn't make the deck. Like it's that good and it 1407 01:20:31,440 --> 01:20:34,920 doesn't make the deck. But no, I invoke Soraya is 1408 01:20:34,920 --> 01:20:37,720 really cool because as soon as you put on hit text for an 1409 01:20:37,720 --> 01:20:41,240 Angel, it's. Yeah, I will say Soraya being 1410 01:20:41,240 --> 01:20:44,920 Invoke, Soraya being a legendary probably hurts its viability 1411 01:20:45,160 --> 01:20:48,320 because you just can't consistently get it in the same 1412 01:20:48,320 --> 01:20:50,960 way that you can consistently get the other angels. 1413 01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:54,320 In a way, yeah. You don't have a way to fetch 1414 01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:58,440 this out of your deck. Yeah, but I mean it being an 1415 01:20:58,440 --> 01:21:03,280 Angel means it still works with your weapon to give it go again. 1416 01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:10,480 So like I've even looked at like if you have the invoke and war 1417 01:21:10,480 --> 01:21:15,000 cry in your hand and you or like one of them is in arsenal, you 1418 01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:19,360 can Halo and grab figment of protection, which makes your 1419 01:21:19,360 --> 01:21:25,400 spectral shield and then you can go Sharia into also free flip 1420 01:21:25,560 --> 01:21:29,360 with rapture on figment of protection. 1421 01:21:29,440 --> 01:21:31,760 Yeah, especially if you pitch a blue right? 1422 01:21:31,760 --> 01:21:33,480 Because that leaves you with the 2 floating to play. 1423 01:21:33,480 --> 01:21:35,760 Invoke Soraya. Yeah. 1424 01:21:36,640 --> 01:21:40,160 So there's there's some I think the math ended up being it was a 1425 01:21:40,160 --> 01:21:46,320 5 card 30 and 10 of that is Ward. 1426 01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:50,920 Oh boy howdy, I sure do like the fact that I'm up 30 Life on this 1427 01:21:50,920 --> 01:21:53,160 prism. Wait, what are you doing? 1428 01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:57,000 I mean, if they haven't popped headpiece, you're not winning 1429 01:21:57,000 --> 01:21:58,640 yet. Yeah. 1430 01:21:59,160 --> 01:22:03,320 Mood. So, you know, invoke, invoke Shy 1431 01:22:03,320 --> 01:22:06,520 is really cool and I wish. I don't think we're going to get 1432 01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:09,000 any more allies from new Prism just because it won't work. 1433 01:22:09,120 --> 01:22:11,680 But I mean, you know what, Kevin? 1434 01:22:12,960 --> 01:22:14,560 I want to play Prism now. Wow. 1435 01:22:15,120 --> 01:22:16,320 You. You've convinced me. 1436 01:22:16,320 --> 01:22:19,920 This is a cool enough turn. Kevin, I want to play Prism. 1437 01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:22,640 Why did we invite Smurf on our pod if he was just going to 1438 01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:25,280 convert our hosts? Our dearest? 1439 01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:29,160 I'm running 5 copies of Clark. I can't but to bear him playing 1440 01:22:29,280 --> 01:22:32,480 Prism. Just wait until I start bringing 1441 01:22:32,480 --> 01:22:35,560 up Illusionist every single episode in a pod. 1442 01:22:35,560 --> 01:22:37,640 It's going to be like the old Leviah days. 1443 01:22:37,680 --> 01:22:39,880 You know, we're not that far from it just because illusionist 1444 01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:42,600 is like such a design rich topic, you know? 1445 01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:44,080 Sure, sure, sure. But right now I'm like 1446 01:22:44,080 --> 01:22:46,520 illusionist agnostic. Like I talk about how they're 1447 01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:49,280 annoying but also like the strengths in the game. 1448 01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:52,640 But now. Oh, it's all over for you guys. 1449 01:22:52,720 --> 01:22:55,960 Yeah, because when you get to run Soraya combo, combo like I 1450 01:22:55,960 --> 01:23:00,000 could see it. Yeah, All right. 1451 01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:04,840 I think that is the episode. It's funny that we didn't talk 1452 01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:06,560 about equipment. I feel like we could have 1453 01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:09,280 equipment or like the permits in the game, you know? 1454 01:23:09,280 --> 01:23:12,120 Yeah, I guess we just have to save that for another episode. 1455 01:23:13,120 --> 01:23:17,320 Let us know if you what this episode has made you think 1456 01:23:17,320 --> 01:23:19,120 about. Have you started looking at 1457 01:23:19,400 --> 01:23:22,000 permanence differently? Have you started thinking about 1458 01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:25,000 how illusionists actually have a space in the meta game that's 1459 01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:28,320 healthy? Let us know if you want to see 1460 01:23:28,320 --> 01:23:31,200 that episode on equipment. Let us know if you want to see 1461 01:23:31,200 --> 01:23:34,880 Kevin back on the podcast. I know that Joel couldn't be 1462 01:23:34,880 --> 01:23:39,560 here today, so hopefully we're able to get you on again, get 1463 01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:41,960 you talking with Joel. Sure. 1464 01:23:42,560 --> 01:23:44,600 Yeah. All right, Yeah, It's been a 1465 01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:46,240 pleasure, Kevin. I'm looking forward to seeing 1466 01:23:46,240 --> 01:23:48,720 you at Vegas. Thank you, everyone, for 1467 01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:51,240 listening. Have a great day, Night, 1468 01:23:51,280 --> 01:23:53,240 whatever. Have a great. 1469 01:23:53,280 --> 01:23:56,280 Day and night, afternoon, whatever time it is for you. 1470 01:23:56,280 --> 01:24:00,280 All right, bye. Bye peace. 1471 01:24:08,440 --> 01:24:12,600 Pitch to Me podcast is hosted by Fuzzy Delt, Clark Moore and Joel 1472 01:24:12,600 --> 01:24:16,600 Racinos, executive producer Talon Stradley, logistics 1473 01:24:16,600 --> 01:24:22,080 coordinator John Farkas, music by Dylan Holtz, logo by on V 1474 01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:26,480 Sound mixing, Christopher Moore and last but not least, you. 1475 01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:29,440 Thank you for listening. Please give us a follow on your 1476 01:24:29,440 --> 01:24:32,440 favorite social media platform at Pitch to Me Podcast.