Welcome to another episode of Virtua.
Mastermind co-founder co-host here, Jason Stallworth and we've
got our other co-founder of metal Mastermind, and co-hosted
a great tank in Dallas, what up my friend brother kin we are
here. Oh dude, we've got some cool
stuff that, you know, we just pretty much talked about the
podcast that we Were filming right now, we should have just
filmed our conversation. You know, we got to do it over
again but the guys we're all about gearjunkie today, this is
all about gear and the core of the topic because Ken and I both
have some very personal and very like recent experiences going to
talk about Hardware versus software, you know, processing
versus amps. Plug ins versus, you know, the
hardware units, blah, blah, blah, all that good stuff.
So, I'm going to talk about Black Star, the the Black Star
amplification company. So you know, I just got they're
amped three and they're these camps and a box.
But you know, before we talk about that and I just got
sponsored by them. So we'll give that quick plug in
here too. So thank you guys.
If you're listening, this will talk about that because I want
to talk about my experience with you know, with the amped free
which is it's a real amps power amp vs.
Are real. Fire.
Which, again, the amp three is a real amp.
But versus, you know, a tube amp with a cab mic'd up in versus
using plugins. So I want to get into that.
But dude, you brought up something that's like that's
gold because you're finishing up your album and you are looking
to kind of like, you know, perfect everything, the big
picture here, right? The overall mix and stuff.
Yeah. And instead of using software
where you went out and bought a Peace.
And I don't think people are buying a lot of these Hardware
pieces. So let's talk about this man.
Cuz I'm interested. Sure.
Well, it's kind of one of those things where well before I get
into that, I guess it's important to preface all of this
with what is the modern like studio, right?
Because everybody that ever used to do any type of recording back
in the 80s or 70s or any of that time era.
Let's say the Golden Era of rock, right?
You had million dollars Studios with all this analog gear.
And that was like expected nowadays, right?
Nobody really has a million-dollar Studio unless
they really got it like that. And if you have a studio in
home, in your bedroom, you're probably all digital because
digital is super convenient and it allows so much accessibility
and I think over the last 20 years this In between, you know,
going from analog to digital, you actually have some people
that were like, like, I teach at universities, right?
So, I have young students who have never touched a lick of
analog gear before, which is kind of wild to me.
Yeah, I know. Right now, you're starting to
feel a little old. I'm like, dude, what the hell,
you know, and I want to talk about some of my experiences
that I had actually yesterday, too, because I why just expose
some students to the SSL console and I was just performing.
How does it feel to? You know, actually like process
things right there and then as you're recording and the
students, do, you know, they were like, blown away because
they're so scared to to actually commit to just say, hey, this is
a certain sound that I'm after, and that's how it's going to be
when it's recorded, you know, they're like, oh, Why not?
Just, you know, record it really flat and natural so that, you
know, you can mix it later and I said, hey, you know, you can do
that. But you know if you're after our
particular sound, why not just get it right there and then and
you know what that takes confidence, it does.
So here's the thing, right? So we're in a digital world now
where everybody's just kind of honing in on just creating the
The cleanest recording possible and I was of course involved in
that world too. So I'm making all these
decisions and you know, you know Jason I've been working on my
album for like eight years at this point.
So all of my my growth as an educator as a performer, it's
really grown alongside with this album and towards the more
recent years when I started to Really get more access to
certain things like plugins, right, as an educator, we have
some of those benefits. So I started gaining access to a
lot of these Advanced plugins. And I was using that I'm like,
oh my God, this sounds just great.
I'm super stoked about it and I'm thinking I'm getting real
close to this Final Mix. And then I said, you know what,
let's try something new something different and so I got
an e Nev summing mixer. And I said, okay, well one I've
always revered the legendary Neve consoles.
They have a history to them. They have a classic sound to
them because, of course, they set the standard back in the
70s. So I'm like, okay, one of my
dreams is always to ever have something that resembled that,
right? And so I got one, I was like,
okay, we got it now the first day, I was just like, what if I
just ran my NYX through this and When that happened I was like,
oh yeah, this is done. I just had this realization
that, no matter how many awesome emulated plugins you can use,
there's really nothing like the real thing and that's why some
audio engineers and producers. They will always say, you know,
analog is King and most people use analog in their instance of
like, on the way in, for most projects because As you know,
they can commit the sound right into the recording and then
they'll just mix it in digital. But, you know, when you work
also with mixing and analog, that's a, that's another layer
of tonality that you're achieving to and, you know, it's
it's amazing. It's really, it changes your
workflow also changes your mindset.
On going into that mix because now you have to make decisions
that you have to commit to. Because if you want to recall
all that information again especially if you got something
like what I'm using and has you know, volume knobs and you know,
auxiliary sends and all this kind of stuff so you can use
other types of gear. Oh man, you know, recalling.
All that information is more of a pain in the butt because now
you got to take notes. You got to take pictures and
yeah. That's not like you can just
recall it like a plug-in. So yeah that that that's where
you go. Like okay I need to make sure
that when I do this this is it you know it's an interesting
process I get that dude I met I had a very similar experience
recording you and I both are working on our albums right now
like we're in a race as he releases it first.
I've already committed to some post album stuff happening in
August so I have got to finish my album and get it out.
Out, you know really mid-july like latest so I'm I'm I put my
back against the wall anyway so I recorded I went back and
recorded the tracks with my evh amplifier.
Great amplifier, mic'd up Good Ol sm57 you know found the tone.
I lied course. It takes a few times.
Like you said, you've got to be confident.
You also have to be a little patient and really be able to
work with the gear to nail down what you want.
Well, going back, when I went as I'm writing lyrics and vocal
Melodies, I'm like, okay, well, there's Parts that I want to
change. There's like two or three songs
with parts that I want to change one song completely changed.
After I wrote the vocals I'm like hey this is gonna sound
better well now I've got a quote unquote recall that information
on my Eva champ that I recorded what six months ago and I can't
do that. There's no buttons like here you
go. So what I did do though, can I
documented my settings though, I think I shared them on YouTube
as well, but I got a blog post and I took some pictures and I
documented everything. So, I'll just go back, and it
might not be exactly the same, but that's okay, I'm fine with
that. It'll be close enough.
But I me and it's not even because I'm old or maybe it is,
I like knobs, man, I like faders.
I like, knobs, you know, sometimes it kills me to be in
the doll having to move everything around with the
mouse. It just I know it really
shouldn't be any different but is so much easier to reach over
and turn a knob. When I play my live acoustic
shows I've got A little mixer over there, you know, and I'll
move stuff around. I think it's the Mackey Pro FX
10 V3, something like that. And I've got the knobs right
there. I know by memory because it's
just a few channels is my vocal my guitar and my wife, she sings
some time. So I know the EQ.
I know I've memorized I've got that visual in my head.
So if things get moved around in the bag and setting up and
tearing down, I can just tweak those knobs, I know exactly
where they need to be. But I don't know, I just for
some reason, I like that. Now I've also got this new, you
know, I recently got sponsored by Electro-Voice I got their new
column system, they sent me and there's no mixer, the mixer is
actually on my phone. So I'm having a little trouble
with that. I mean, it's very convenient and
use go to the phone and, you know, you know, fade the little
things with your finger at each Channel or whatever.
But I don't know, I'm just still, I still like the idea of
just having that physical knob and physical fader, Or it's just
a bit easier. Yeah, you know, and even as as
an engineer for touring, I did, you know, several years with a
band they were called the cringe.
It was a great over a like alternative rock type stuff.
And I was touring with them as their monitor engineer, and what
they were using was an Allen & Heath Q pack.
I think it was called and it's like this rack unit that you can
put into your system. It has like some buttons on it
but it's very, very, you know, Compact and small.
So you really the full feature set is using the iPad or
something like that. And you know, you get used to it
after a while. But man, when I, when I, if I
were to choose between using acute pack like that and having
to mix this entire like live show with an iPad versus using
an actual fader with a natural knob, you know, I choose the
full on Console every single time, Man, it there's there's a
Psychological Association with actually just using tactile
feel. There's there's nothing like it
and you know, going back to that whole idea of using the SSL I
got sounds that I wanted quicker because I just I had a tactile
feel on what was I actually doing to the sound itself.
You know you don't really get that same feeling when you're
using a plug-in like you're Link to it and you can you can make
the same judgments but the feeling is different and you
almost like when I'm working on an SSL, I don't need to look at
M I don't need to look at at screens I just listened and if
it sounds good I don't even care.
You'll even see on my board it'll be overloading and you
won't even really hear the overloading because it just
sounds edgier. It just sounds cooler and that's
what it's doing. Its meteor.
Right. That's the that's the beauty of
analog. It's like soft Distortion.
It's not like clipping Distortion, Like you get with
the computer. So this I totally am there with
you man. And it's, and it's just an
incredible experience and it just reinforced that concept to
me here in my own home studio because, you know, you know, I'm
here with Antelope audio and they got great converters.
They got great plugins to and I'm like dude, I love this stuff
but holy crap was Not using it to its full potential until I
actually started something with it because the quality of the
converters that's great, but if you're not using them, you're
not getting the benefit out of them either.
So I love that. I think it's just a wonderful
experience and it's important to talk about it because people
forget that, you know, it doesn't stop with just the
digital world. If you're at a certain point in
your either career or you're just Our growth as a producer or
just as a musician investing in quality gear Hardware gear.
There's nothing like it. You get real Transformers you're
running through real electricity right?
There's something about running real electricity through a unit
that does something to sound. I don't know.
It's just it's magic. Let me ask this question.
Can we do? This is kind of a tough question
here. Maybe it's not Relevant
relevant. Maybe it is though.
Do you feel like that? A lot of people tend even the
younger generation? They tend to listen to older
music more now know if you go on the charge, you know, and look
at Spotify as top 10, whatever, it's all the new stuff, but when
you actually go out and about and talk to people, especially
in the Rock and metal world, like forget about pop and all
that stuff, right? It country or whatever.
But you, when you talk to people, like real people in the
Rock and metal World, they tend to listen to Older stuff more
than newer stuff? Do you think this technology
craze everything being digital do, you think it may have
something to do with that? Where is the old records?
And I'm not saying we need to go back to tape and all that,
right? There's there's a, there's a
fine balance between progressing with technology and it may be
kind of overdoing it and the new stuff can't quite do what this
analog equipment that we're talking about this vintage
equipment were talking about. Can do, do you think that has
anything to do with? With with how people listen to
music and what they prefer to listen to.
Yeah. Let me let me phrase it to you
in this way and maybe it will make a little bit more sense
even if you don't do this kind of work, let's just go to
photography for a second. Okay.
Okay, the different a different world aside from using Square so
submerged in music. Yeah, sometimes it's hard to
look outside the box, write a list.
So let's take a look at the world of Photography, right?
ADI, they can get a new camera, a new camera body, right?
It can film in 4k, it can film in 6K.
It can film an 8K. If your film and 16k they got
all these different types of resolutions.
And what happens when you buy the body of the camera
typically? It's almost obsolete.
The moment, you buy it. Yeah.
Right. Because there's always going to
be something that comes out. That's newer.
That's fresher. But you know what?
Always stays the same. The lens.
Hmm. The lens always grows in value
because the lens uses a different type of Technology.
It uses Optics, right blasts, real glass, and you can't
emulate real glass, right? It will always retain its value.
So now let's go back and relate this to music and audio.
Let's talk about all the classic amplifiers with the real tubes
that they have with the real electric circuitry that they
have. Let's talk about microphones.
Why do we still use microphones? That were back in the 60s?
Because a great Point, dude, they had real real, real
Electronics. You had Transformers, inductors
capacitors. All these different types of
electronic components that sure we could try to emulate
Traditional. But at best It's an attempt
because digital does not look at things the same way inherently
that analog does. And there's a limitation to
digital because the computer can only store so much information.
So the finite differences, right?
For example, for every I think There are a couple of voltage
steps that happened in between a conversion and they can only be
estimated between like something to the degree of like 6 decibels
or something of that sort. So for every one of these sort
of voltage steps that we're using there is actually an
inaccuracy and we call this quantization error, where the
computer literally has to round the information to the closest.
Burr that it can process because it just doesn't have the finite
or infinite depth that something like electricity or analog does.
So it's inherently going to be inaccurate, just because we're
using an imperfect system, despite the fact that it's very
convenient and despite the fact that it's replicatable, and all
these sorts of benefits that we get with digital, that's what it
does. Great.
But Digital. It's it it's a different
language inherently. It doesn't understand.
The physical world, we have to use a Rosetta Stone to turn the
physical world into digital. That's what a converter does.
And that converter that's like saying, hey man, you know, you
got a different buddy who speaks a different language, right?
And you need an interpreter but that interpreter, you know,
they're not perfect. You know, they'll interpret
certain things a certain way from that person to you, from
you to that person. And You'll get the idea what
they're saying because you have a friend that can interpret for
you. But maybe, you know, there are
certain words that, you know, the person who sang it in their
language, they mean it in a more slang way or, you know, they
needed in a more formal way. And then the person who is
interpreting has to try and convey that in your slang or
your formal way, right? And that might be some
inaccuracy. So you're absolutely right,
dude. I deal with this all the time
and speaking tiling or, you know, I'm probably intermediate,
lower intermediate in Thai language.
You know, I'm reading and writing a little too, but no, I
know exactly what you're saying. There are some slang words in
English language that the ties do not have.
So they'll just say it with their own accent, right?
And vice versa. There are some words that just
they don't cross over in the vocabulary.
They have similar meanings but not exact meanings even down to
the tones and tie like an rrsp. Say in certain certain ways the
constant start and tie it sounds like an S to us and it is but
it's really not. It's really something else, it's
Veron. So now I totally totally
understand what you're talking about and by the way guys Ken is
totally nerding out here on the analog versus digital and I love
it and I've never I've never heard anyone explain like you
just explain the differences and it's just Really, really odd the
way that we think digital was so much better.
I'm not saying it's bad. I mean, you nailed it.
When you said convenience, I don't own a camera, a video,
camcorder NES stuff. I use my iPhone for everything.
Not so much because it's better or worse or the same but it's
just convenient to whip it out. Start filming.
I'm going to film, you know, a YouTube video.
I'm going to film content for metal Mastermind, so stay tuned
for that, right? I'm going to film it all of my
eye. Phone just because it's
convenient and speaking of conversion, even if I filmed
something in this whatever 160 million K right I'm being
honest, Patrick Beverley once you want you dump it down to the
editing software and then put it on the platform.
Whatever. You're putting it on I think it
kind of compresses it anyway, right.
So yeah. It's like you do you go through
all that work? Just like it's got to be and
honestly what I find especially in the YouTube world with you
and I can is yeah. Yeah, people want the quality,
the quality needs to be there, but it doesn't have to be
overboard. They care more about.
The content is the content helping me is a quality good
enough so that I can listen and watch and it looks good right?
Who cares? Who cares?
If it's 4K or 16k or whatever, unless you're like producing,
you know, this Epic movie or something, which right?
We're doing here, you know, it's all about the content.
But no, I love the way you dug in and explained all that, man,
that's a good stuff. Well, thank you.
I mean, it's just, I'm trying to put it in perspective, right?
Because there's and I'm a big fan of analogy.
So I love the idea of getting a little bit outside of the norm,
right? Because when we have this
conversation and you've had this conversation with so many
guitars on your channel, it almost feels like, all right?
We keep talking about, its redundant redundant, but it's
not because it's actually spreading some sort of Some form
of awareness to our audience that, hey, there is actually a
physical difference here. It might be important to you or
not, and that's fine, right? You don't have to, you know,
just because we're talking about it here and we're just like, yo,
man, everybody needs an eve, it's like not everybody needs.
My need somebody might want something different for what
they create, you know, they might decide that.
It'll actually is fine. You know what's actually
something interesting about digital versus analog digital is
too perfect, sometimes with the makes and actually when I
listened and I think we even shared a little bit of this
together to I made I sent you a like, some demos.
And I was like, hey, let's do a comparison.
And I've heard this from other my friends buddies to, they're
like, hey, there's a, the both, makes it sound great, but the
digital one sounds more glue Glued together and read that.
Yeah. And it's like, you know what?
That's true because there is no imperfection with the digital
Spectrum, right? Which inherently sure, it makes
things more clear and all that kind of stuff.
But when you start using the analog, the analog does
something a little bit different and it's got something to do
with phase, right? The timing, the How-use make the
spread go between left and right, the crosstalk that
happens between channels, right? And that's saying, you know, a
little bit of the left side is bleeding a little bit into the
right side or the right side is bleeding a little bit to the
left side. There's, there's all these sorts
of circuitry, right? And when you run electrical
units, you're also creating at the same time, a magnetic field.
That's that's why we call it electromagnetism, right?
Because they Exist together in the same, they're sort of
perpendicular to each other in a sense and when you use this kind
of gear, you're going to have certain anomalies and those
anomalies can smooth out transients.
They can make wave sustain a little bit longer just by
inherently running through something like a transformer.
For example, right. What is a Transformer?
It's just an iron. Core with wires wrapped on each
side and what does it do? It changes the amount of voltage
that you have going from one end to the other end.
So the difference when you are running through that you're
getting something called magnetic flux and that magnetic
flux is very very similar to tape.
So when you overdrive tape your over emphasizing this magnetic
flux. Which creates what we call
saturation, right? So, that's saturation adds
color. And that is why when I run
through something like Annie, I'm like, oh, it sounds so much
more exciting. It sounds thicker.
It sounds Fuller. It may not be as glued and
perfect is digital, but I feel The Vibes more from the knee
than I did with the digital, and that is more important to me.
This situation, then what I was seeking for, with the digital
mix. So that's that's why I did that,
right? Somebody might say the digital
was actually what they were looking for in the first place
and if that's okay, if they wanted the clean mix that had
the, the perfect, you know, stereo perception or a you want
to and here's the thing you can't do analog with Atmos or
anything like that. So you your, if you want to do
at most, yeah, you Got to do a digital but that's the thing,
right? So you can't do Atmos but you
get the Vibes without a log. But if you do you know digital
you get at most you get all the benefits of using that, you
know, that world. It's fascinating that just the
stark contrast on what things can be useful for.
And that's the thing. You have to know the limitations
of what your system can do. Something being very clean in
the digital world. You know, maybe perfect for some
situations, but it may not Be the best route for something
else and, and in my opinion, Rock and metal were always like
analog heavy beasts. So I love anything Hardware,
right? That's why the best records in
the 80s were worked on an SSL. The SSL they started using
compressors on the entire mix bus and they started to have
pressures on every single Channel.
And that's why we created such a beefy sound coming out of the
80s. That we revered even till this
day. I love it.
Do it in that kind of jumps right into guitar tones.
There again, there are a lot of great metal albums out there so
many, but sometimes I hear the guitar tone and it just, it
sounds like papery. I don't want to say then but it
just sounds. It almost sounds too perfect.
And it's just like, okay just it sounds process.
It sounds overly process. I there are countless albums
like that, whereas the ones that you can't, Were recorded with a
real amplifier and maybe not a whole lot done after that
because I think sometimes people might record their tracks with a
live man upright with a tube amp mic'd up but then they do so
much stuff to it in the post processing.
It just kind of kills the vibe of the real amp, right?
So I've heard you hear the difference between guitars and
certain album songs, and such and even even between albums,
like you can even go back to and I think Metallica probably uses,
you know, they probably still Mike there.
Amps and all that good stuff. But even with that using the
same strategy you can tell they're sound from kmol really
raw man that and Ride the Lightning to go into an album
like justice, you know, the tone completely change, you know,
one's not really better than the other but the justice is a
little bit cleaner. Right now.
Of course, that was, that was all real amps, but you get into
some of these bands that are recording with plugins.
And look, my I'm not knocking that guy's my last three albums
Masterpiece, I recorded those with a Sims with positive grids.
They're Mesa amp Sim and it was what I had at the time.
My heavy metal workout series albums, those were recorded with
the same thing positive grid. My first album apocalyptic
dreams, I recorded that with the Pod hd500.
Their Engel Sim right? Was sounds Nothing Like an Eagle
aunt but it served the purpose for the time now I'm looking at
this album here. Well I'm like you know what I
want to I want to do it differently, there are things in
my album so I'm like okay I'm not Really sure if I like the
tones. You know, I'm not knocking my
own albums, but maybe in a way I am.
But you do use, what you have to do, what you need to do, right?
If you're recording with plugins right now, maybe you don't have
the budget to go out and buy a tube amp.
Maybe you don't even want one. Hey, go for it.
Me on the other hand though, I'm like okay well this album is
going to be recorded with a live, a almost done but it
brings me to to this recent sponsorship with black star.
I got they're amped 3 and for those who have Who watched my
unboxing? Apologies for the disaster,
there is some what I call ID 10t error, write that out.
I D 10 t on my part in getting the same, but I've learned how
to use it. And of course, by at this time
on my channel, I've got, you know, a few videos out there
with the black star. But to me it was kind of like
the perfect. Almost a perfect.
Because I I'm somewhere in between liking it and sort of
loving it. You know.
I do like it a lot, but I'm not in love with it.
It quite yet. So any case though I'm still
playing around with it but it's like the like the perfect
balance or 88 balance. At least between miking a tube
amplifier because the amp three is a real a 100 watt amp you can
you can connect it to a cap and not need a power source.
It is an amplifier or you can use it in your Daw or run
through a soundboard and you're using the real amp but you're
also using their cab simulation right there.
I ours. So that's kind of that's kind of
where Mixing hardware and software together, and I realize
it's not feasible for everyone to mic up a tube amp, you got
to, you know, you got to get them up pretty loud, right, to
get that signal and to get the breakup and all that.
Now, some of the modern amps, like the evh 5150.
Three, I guess, it's not so modern anymore.
It's been out for a while, but that does not need a booster.
And I can get like the perfect Distortion tone.
Even at a low volume even at one.
Now a one on a 50-watt tube amp is still is not.
Soft as this pretty loud, right? But I get a good sound out of
that but even then those it's not always feasible to Mike that
up. So this little product here, the
amp three, you know, I like it, I mean is cool.
It's a real amp. I get that get that feel of the
amp and when I went back and listen to some tracks, you know,
recorded with the amp three because I just recorded a few
demo tracks, few things for the YouTube videos.
I would listen to those in other sources headphones and car Here
to older tracks. I've recorded with a Sims.
There's really no comparison that the Sims and I've tried
them all, guys I've you know, I'm not knocking Sims are great,
use them if you want, I still use them, I probably always will
to some capacity, but for certain things like this album,
well, I'm going to use probably a mixture of the ebh and the, a
3-2 to finish this up, you know, so I know there's a difference
that makes it, that makes a lot of sense and it also depends on
where you are in your process to write.
So, So like when you're working on your album and you're trying
to get ideas down like why go through all the effort of doing
analog like that, that that makes that makes no sense.
Because now you're still in a formulation phase of trying to
create your ideas and cement those once you've got those
cemented and you're like this is what it's going to be and now I
just need to make it the best it can be.
Then that makes more sense about like okay let's go and you know
you know let's record and the case with the blacks.
Rm3. Right?
You know, you might just use the IRS in the beginning just
because you want to get some tone and you're just recording
them to for songwriting, but then when you're ready to like
re-amp it, and you want to put it in the studio, you got your
settings that, you know, it has the amplifying process right in
the, in the Box itself. But then, it can go right into a
speaker. You can choose to put it on, you
know, like some Celeste Jian, freaking, like woofers or
whatever. And then use the microphones
that you Ali want in the studio, right?
You can go to a studio and record it with that.
You can you can you can take it up the Wazoo as much as you
want. You could record it through an
SSL L, you know. But this this kind of like idea
of like hey like do I need analog you don't need analog but
does it enhance the process? Sure.
So um yeah, it's just a matter of.
Where are you in your process? And How important is it to you
to make it happen? Because and you know, I've known
like I've also worked in a Mastery Studios to and I
stumbled across people who were strictly mastering like digital
purists like they didn't, they did not touch analog and they
did it for a very specific reason, right?
Which is that every time you convert a signal, you actually
damage it, right? Actually I explain this a little
bit before I called it, quantization error, where the
computer it has to round the information to the closest Value
that it can process right? So when you do that inherently
it's an inaccurate representation because it's
rounding the information. It's not the exact information
that it was given so by putting that into an analog realm just
by converting it, you've got you've damaged the signal
technically right this soup. Crazy.
Do I feel like we're almost talking about the whole Quantum
field here? But well it is it is super like
a super geeky detail Heroes. There are certain.
That's why certain mastering Engineers don't do it because
the the entire philosophy of mastering is to not damage the
source, so by doing that they're like okay I've inherently
damaged it right and getting into a Log.
Now, you've got to also deal with like noise like gear has
noise. Like that's just part of it.
Um, and you know, yeah. You'll have some other benefits
to it but man, it will do certain things to your signal
and you have to deal with that. Like I did it realize how
freaking noisy this thing can be until I actually started running
my digital mix through it and I was like you know, when it's
quiet I hear the noise and Hey, you know what?
I had to make the decision that I was okay with that because at
the end of the day, The Vibes that I was getting from this.
I was like it's worth it and it's the same thing.
Why people? And they go like, oh yeah, you
know it's like that tape hiss, you know, when you're listening
to old records and your hearing or your just decided.
Hey I want to record on tape. Well, you're going to have to
deal with the That you hear when you run through tape because
that's literally the tape scratching over the tape head.
No, screw, you know it but that's, that's part of the
process of doing analog and that's why some mastering
Engineers when they're after, like, you know, a clean master,
they don't they don't even touch analog.
So I understand the sentiment and, you know, again, it's not
to say that Anna digital is inferior or analog is inferior.
It's That they're different and you you have a nothing is
without like a give and take you know if you go digital you just
know that there are certain things that if you're going to
try and emulate analog stuff on it, it's not going to be quite
the same as actually using analog, right?
And vice versa, right? Trying to try to get analog to
be as clean as digital good luck.
Yeah. You know, because that just
doesn't exist. Yeah.
I like the idea.
You see I don't. I'm so not a Purest really in
anything I you can you know what you and I talked about this and
I'm not going to mention the evil word politics, but pretty
much in most things in life, I'm very down the middle.
Now some people will give me crap for that.
We go to choose one. I'm like, why why do I have to
choose one? I don't want to choose one.
So I'm not going to which brings me to the point is, you don't
necessarily have to be a digital Puris or an analog purist.
You can merge the two. The two can live in the same
world together, you know, in my opinion, like, for example, Got
my rhythm guitar tracks with an E VH amplifier.
A Mite up amplifier right now my lead tracks will just have
recorded yet I might will more than likely use the amp'd.
Three by the time this podcast comes out.
I hope the lead tracks are done. We always film these like two
weeks in advance but I might use the amp 3 which is a mix of
hardware and software because you've got the cabin emulation.
Now, for bass guitar, I may use a base Sim that were recording
the bass or, you know, I'm Can it may be working with Rich gray
on that? And I, you know, he'll probably
send the DIA and I'll run it through an amp or I might just
use whatever, you know, process used.
So all that said, you know, and then going into doing vocals,
you know? Right now I'm just running into
an interface. I may get a better mic preamp
but I'm still going to have some plugins on those vocals.
I'll have a little Reverb. Well, that's gonna be a plug-in
that's going to be digital. I'll have a little delay in a
compressor that's going to be digital can.
So I believe you can merge all these things to Together.
If you want that, if that's what you want.
I don't really see the point in saying, well I'm going to be all
analog. Everything's gotta be a like
where I'm going to be all digital.
I would rather folks look at is like what what do you want?
I mean, if that's what you really want, go for it.
But why do you want it, right? What's the benefit?
So, I'm a big believer in just doing what works best for you.
It might lean. One way more one way, right?
Maybelline. More digital than analog or more
analog, but if you can use them together in just Make things
great and convenient at the same time.
Hey, why not? Yeah, and I want even tag on a
little bit there. I mean, one of our other
sponsors opulence, what they're doing.
They're you know, right? We talked about NF tease the
digital side of things of ownership, right?
But if you decide that you want to buy one of their aunties, you
also can get a plaque for it. That's like Google, isn't it?
So cool though, like you you get a digital file and then as a
reward for having that digital file, you can Have a physical
representation of that in the real world, right?
That's weird. So yeah, that's like that's like
a great way of comparing living digital and analog together they
can coexist. It's it's really unhealthy for
us to look at certain things as just one or the other.
Like we have to live, you know. Together we there's there's no
reason to separate the two honestly.
We hurt each other by doing that.
The more we can understand how they coexist the better.
Will be and the more, you know, honestly future-proof will make
everything exists because I love like I got into analog in my
career much later. I started for a very long time,
just with digital, right? And I'm looking at my rack here,
which you can't see. But I just started with digital
for a long, long long, long time.
And when I got into the analog world to in integrate into my
hybrid, now hybrid, It was just, it was just a big reveal for me,
and it added to my process. And then if in the beginning,
when I started using digital, I was like, yeah.
Like why use analog? I got all these plugins, and I
was ignorant because I didn't actually really learn the
difference. I didn't, you know, when I was
learning how to do recording, back in college, they were
teaching us stuff using mostly digital equipment.
Aunt, I went to a community college and then when I got into
a other college for a four year college, I learned more of the
difference on what analog can do.
But I looked at Analog at that time as okay, I would record
with analog, but I would mix entirely with digital and I
didn't really ever try mixing analog with my record back with
the first homeric album this time around.
I said, let's mix with that along.
Because let's see what that will do and oh my gosh, it did so
much more for my for my process and I'm super excited about
that. But yeah, man, I totally, I
totally 100% agree with you analog and digital, you know,
you don't have to throw one away for the other.
They can live together and you can do it within your own budget
to. There's analog gear out there.
That's very affordable, and it actually adds quite a bit of
character. To anything that you run through
it, you could even use something as simple as just a high-quality
preamp and just use that to color your signal.
So I was going to ask you about the, like we're like, for
vocals, for example, and this is mainly for me, guys, but it will
help everyone listening. So, when I go to record vocals,
I'm looking at using this Electro-Voice, again, I'm, you
know, this is a sponsorship here.
I've got there re 20 Mike, it's a broadcasting, Mike, but like,
the sm7b also broadcasting Mike. Well, a lot of people do vocals,
especially metal So what preamp, what type of preamp would you
run a microphone through for vocals?
Because right now, I'm just running it through my interface
and using plugins, but there there's probably a better
method, right? Well, you know what, I would say
is there's different types of preamps with different types of
components, right? I mentioned knee of.
And the way I like to look at Nev is it's like a, it's like
dark chocolate. It's rich and it's got a lot of
It's gotta it's got a lot of like a lot of meat to it, right
it's heavy, right? But when you're using something
let's say like like an API that's like more of like mint
ice cream, right? Because it's got an open
mid-range it opens your nasal nostrils, right?
So you're that you're listening and you're, you're tasting the
buds of all that, right? So each one has its own Both
signature sound. I think it really just depends
on you playing around and just trying out some different
priest. That's why a lot of people
really like something called, like these, like 500 series
analog rack units, and they're like these little tiny modules,
right? And it goes, yeah, and they
slide into an entire rack, right?
So that's a very, very good way of getting an affordable.
High-quality preamp or You can you get compressors, you can get
eqs and stuff in that form factor to, but a lot of people
like to just, you know, collect a couple of different preamps
and what they'll do is, they'll just they'll just run stuff
through that, you know, get two of each, right, get to needs,
get to apis, get to ssl's, get to, I don't know, Burl's,
whatever you want, right? And try them out.
And that's a great way. And if you don't like them, sell
them, they people will buy them, they're these analog, people
will buy Yes, yes, analog gear will always retain value unlike
digital, okay, because digital moves forward so fast the
moment, you buy it, it's already archaic right?
Try selling an old digital interface that you have you're
probably going to get 50 bucks for it, you know, it's gonna be
outdated. Go ahead one preamp.
Do You Feel It by one preamp? If like, okay can you can only
choose one preamp for vocals and maybe running guitars through as
well if you're Mike and amps, what would you choose?
I'm just curious, honestly. I love Nev just as a as I'm a
biased Nev lover but SSL is such a good Contender to that to man.
You know, SSL actually released I think a new interface that
that has I think 32-bit native recording which I very very
interesting, I think is called the SSL 12 or something like
that interested to Yeah, and it sounds Bonkers, man.
It's so good. I mean the pre is on an SSL are
just fantastic. You really can't go wrong.
I like what I like about an SSL. Is there is a toughness but
versatility to it. It's kind of like, how would I
say it if Nev is like Dark chocolate.
I guess you could say SSL is like, Peanut butter.
Okay. Yeah, you know, if you get a
difference between those two, right?
You got peanut butter and dark chocolate?
Which one do you prefer more? You know, it depends on what
you're after. I love SSL for guitars.
I really do. I love chocolate.
I'm going dark chocolate, dude. So just I need sounds fantastic
to. I mean the thing about what an
eve does and as the cells has to have Transformers in To.
But Nev was really the first to really, like hit the market with
these and they did it in such a way but like with Transformers
do is that they entice like third order harmonics, like the
odd harmonics in a signal. So when you're listening to that
kind of stuff, think about it in a musical intervals, right?
That's like your s your 7, it's all the more dissonant stuff.
And what that does is it adds Edge right in music?
Yes, it's the same thing here, but tonally with musical sounds
with frequencies and harmonics. It's the same idea.
So, when you're listening to Nev or an SSL, you're getting that
like juice that that edginess, that we like, and we incorporate
into all of our mixes at some point, you know, that's why we
like, to boost things like six kilohertz.
Well, you know, because six kilohertz is Rika Neji when it
comes to guitars or 3 kilohertz or and their octaves apart,
right? But they're edgy harmonics.
So yeah man. I mean if I had to choose like a
desert island preamp. Yeah.
It'd probably be like a Nev like a like a like a 5500 series or a
You know, one of their like Sheldon I believe is shelford
shelford eq's. I think it also has a pre on it
as well, inspired by the 1073 sort of original circuitry.
So you're getting you're getting a lot of that with with the
shelford but it's it, you can't go wrong with a need s to that.
An SSL 4000 preamp, just it's the classic.
Like metal and rock rehab that you heard on so many records.
After that, I'd probably go API. Okay?
Like if 31 looks good to know because I I'm looking for
something for my vocals. You know?
And I may just stick with the PreSonus.
What is called the XXX M, ax x max, I can't remember the name
of their preamps and they're decent, they're not horrible by
any means. But maybe I might want something
a little bit better than that, though.
So, we'll see ya. I mean, I think for anybody
who's interested in learning, what analog can do for them,
definitely the first thing I would say is just get a, get a
quality preamp and and start there because you can do
multiple things with that pre-owned, not only can you
record with it. You could also run your mix
through it and get the two sides left and right, and then we'll
Cordon do can on the preamp. So man, so if you get a really
good preamp and you're going to record, That get you're going to
run your microphone through that preamp.
But are you good then going to run, you know that preamp
through your interface? Go into your Daw.
Is that get is that going to make?
Is that going to devalue the signal at all?
Well like I said every conversion would do that but you
know in this case you know just run the main mix through it just
for color. Okay.
That would that it's very very small and miniscule.
I'm talking dude like within a person.
Aunt. Okay, so you want you to notice
you won't you won't, you won't really notice it.
You'll notice the temporal change of running through the
preamp way more than you would ever notice.
The quote, the conversion quality degraded gotcha.
Gotcha, okay, okay cool. Yeah, I like that.
Well guys, this has been a very interesting conversation.
Can I learned a lot today man, I hope everyone listening learned
a lot as well, so it's it's extremely intellectual.
Precision, kind of above my head, dude.
So I know that's why I'm, that's why I partnered with Ken is,
he's a bit smarter than I am saying and younger.
So, you know, all my pleasure man.
But guys, hope you hope you learned some cool stuff today.
I hope you took away some cool stuff and remember you know you
don't you don't have to be all analog or all-digital.
You know you don't have to do that.
A lot of times, I think when we're trying to be what's called
a zealot well this is the way, right?
You can you can tag this to anything, especially nutrition,
know this diet works for everybody.
Everybody needs to do this or this, or that you need to
meditate for five minutes or 8 hours or whatever.
I'm making stuff up now, but just be careful with that kind
of stuff when you're tempted to go.
Just one extreme way because what I think that might do
especially in the music world and early anything, it may hold
you back a bit, right? It may hold you back
unnecessarily. Like if you're like what Got to
go all digital. I can't do analog, you might be
missing out on something right? Would have some of that analog
what if it feels better what if it sounds better to you?
Vice versa? Well I'm all analog I'm a
whether they called purist or whatever, right?
Well you might be missing out on something that could help you,
right? You just never know.
So everything has its Pace. Everything has has a place,
right? So anyways, thought through
those two cents at you guys Ken. Thanks for all the knowledge man
and hope you guys. And Each time we get as get a
lot out of this podcast. We enjoy doing this for you
guys. Don't forget to go check out
metal, Mastermind.com or website, check out our courses
Ken and I we have made several recent upgrades to our
songwriting course, metal songwriters Forge several
courses on there. So go to metal Mastermind.com.
Can you know, we're talking, let me throw this in real quick man.
Now, we're talking about, you know, the studio and set up and
all that just reminded me of your course called metal Studio
designer. You know, you've got a course.
Beer, that helps you design down to like the mathematical
dimensions and all that stuff of your studio.
Even if you followed half of that course, you're going to
come out with it with a really cool Studio your home.
So I just thought I'd throw it out there.
I know that, that course we really haven't been promoting
that, but I know some of you really want that professional
studio. So that's a great course to get
it again. That's metal Studio designer,
can you have a fiery course out there guys, we got guitar
courses. Local courses.
So we got a base course coming out soon as well.
So check out metal Mastermind.com guys.
Thank you for listening until the next time is always create
your own sound. Local courses.
So we got a base course coming out soon as well.
So check out metal Mastermind.com guys.
Thank you for listening until the next time is always create
your own sound.