1 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,600 Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Metal 2 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:19,920 Mastermind. I'm your host, Ken Candelas, and 3 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:21,800 today I have a dear friend with me. 4 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:26,200 His name is Chris Barons, a mastermind on headphone 5 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:28,720 technology with the company Odyssey. 6 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:31,880 Got to give it up for you, man, this is awesome. 7 00:00:32,119 --> 00:00:36,720 Odyssey has been such a game changer in the music industry 8 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:39,840 and the audio recording industry guys. 9 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,280 I mean, you see me rocking with these all the time. 10 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:44,840 I can't get enough of the Odyssey's. 11 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,520 And I even ordered their new headphone, their new clothes 12 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:50,960 back the S 20s. I'm really excited about those. 13 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,200 So I'd love to talk a little bit about that kind of stuff today 14 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:58,560 with you, Chris, and just your general journey when it came to 15 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,000 audio equipment and what was that like for you. 16 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,600 So why don't we just start off with just a little introduction, 17 00:01:05,960 --> 00:01:07,960 Chris. Tell us who you are and what you 18 00:01:07,960 --> 00:01:10,240 do and what you like to do on your free time. 19 00:01:10,320 --> 00:01:12,480 Yeah, thanks, Ken. It's good to be here. 20 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:14,520 We're excited about the S 20, of course. 21 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,720 We just started shipping them, I think yesterday, believe it or 22 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,520 not. Anyway, I started with Odyssey 23 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:24,120 about 10 years ago now. I, I have been involved in, I 24 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,120 mean, I've been a music lover my whole life, been involved in 25 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,640 music production and kind of as a hobbyist for a long time. 26 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:33,000 And I wanted to get out of the kind of retail scenario that I 27 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,480 was in and get into something those little more music oriented 28 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:40,320 a little bit, a little bit less. You have to be here during these 29 00:01:40,320 --> 00:01:42,520 hours because the store is open sort of thing. 30 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:47,480 So I, I just found Odyssey and they were not far down the road. 31 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:49,960 Actually, how I found Odyssey is an interesting story. 32 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,200 I, I was working on a record, I was doing some mixes with some 33 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:58,320 friends of mine and my mixes were not translating and I was 34 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,160 mostly mixing on headphones. I won't name the brand, but it's 35 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,200 a pretty common one. A lot of, a lot of people have 36 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,880 them and I was just not really happy. 37 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,000 So I started looking into what other headphones I could get 38 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,320 that would, you know, help me make the mixes turn out better. 39 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:16,000 And I, I had heard of Odyssey before and this was what, 40 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:21,880 20/20/16, early 2016. So it was a while ago. 41 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,040 And so I looked them up and lo and behold, they're like 15 42 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,920 miles away from my house. And not only did they have cool 43 00:02:28,920 --> 00:02:31,280 looking headphones, but they had a job posting on the website at 44 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:34,400 the time. So I applied and I got the job. 45 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:36,800 And so that's kind of how that got started. 46 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,880 That's amazing. What luck, right? 47 00:02:39,920 --> 00:02:42,480 Yeah. And I mean the convenience 48 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,040 factor, you can't beat it. But but I mean, like Odyssey, I 49 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,640 mean, they've been doing, you know, headphones for quite a 50 00:02:48,640 --> 00:02:53,040 while and they've gotten from the medical industry, I know for 51 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,600 a big proponent of their technology was expanding into 52 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,920 that world. I've noticed that audio and 53 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:05,480 medical or space exploration or any of these sorts of things, 54 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:10,960 they kind of tend to be around the same circles of technology. 55 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,360 And I'm just wondering why would that be? 56 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:15,920 What? What do you what do you think is 57 00:03:15,920 --> 00:03:19,920 the commonality between these sorts of fields and how they 58 00:03:19,920 --> 00:03:22,400 affect us? Well, probably the number one 59 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,280 thing since you mentioned that is the need for excellence or 60 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,840 the quest for excellence, right? We want, you know, NASA 61 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,680 obviously has to have stuff perform as it's supposed to all 62 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,360 the time. Medical industry very, very much 63 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,440 the same thing. Like they need their stuff to 64 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,440 work right and and they need it to be accurate. 65 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,840 And that's what we're always looking for in transducers as 66 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,080 well. And actually the film that we 67 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:50,440 use for the drivers came from a NASA application. 68 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:52,800 It it's made by this company for us. 69 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,800 They custom make it to our spec, but they do a variant of the 70 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,760 same film that's made to use what's called solar sails, which 71 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:03,760 are these things that are like the size of a football field 72 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,400 that when they launch certain satellites and spacecraft out 73 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,520 into the into orbit because there's no atmosphere, they 74 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:13,320 don't and they don't want to have to refuel. 75 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:17,320 They don't use Jet Propulsion. They actually use the power of 76 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:23,040 the sunlight and the heat that's created by that to propel in the 77 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:24,280 direction that they need to do it. 78 00:04:24,280 --> 00:04:27,120 So they they create these things called solar sails, which is a 79 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:31,120 variation of the same film that we use for our diaphragms to 80 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:35,560 make these giant things that collect the sunlight and propel 81 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:37,080 the spacecraft. Wow. 82 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:42,040 So this totally went space age and that's amazing because it's 83 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:48,560 just, it's incredible that same or very similar type of material 84 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:52,240 you said. So what is it about the material 85 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:54,560 that makes it so special in that case? 86 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:59,800 Well, the, the lightweight, how thin it is for their 87 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,960 application, it's that and the transparency of the actual film 88 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,400 itself, because a lot of films that are created for that kind 89 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,160 of use, like flexible circuit boards is technically what it 90 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,560 is. A lot of those kinds of films 91 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,960 are they're made a little thicker, they're a little bit 92 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,840 heavier, which when you can imagine something that large 93 00:05:18,840 --> 00:05:21,360 that you're trying to move with sunlight, you need it to be as 94 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:23,400 light as possible, but it also has to be strong. 95 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:29,360 And the transparency factor is if you run sunlight through 96 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,200 something that's tinted green or tinted orange, which or whatever 97 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,680 it is, which many of these kinds of films are, you change the 98 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,760 quality of the light. And in our case, since we etched 99 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,480 with lasers, it actually changes the way the lasers behave. 100 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,280 So the transparency is actually really important for us as well. 101 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,520 And then you have the the purity of the metal that's laminated on 102 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,360 top, which is the conductive aspect of it in both cases. 103 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,880 So in in the solar sails application, it conducts the 104 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,520 sunlight and in our application actually conducts the 105 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,800 electricity that makes the diaphragm interact with the 106 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:06,120 magnetic field and move. Holy crap, that is some amazing 107 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,160 stuff. It's really taking a, a, a leap 108 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,880 in brunt of, you know, technology here. 109 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,400 I've never seen anything like it, never heard anything like 110 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,160 it. This is one of those types of 111 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:22,200 things that once you've heard it, you kind of can't unhear it. 112 00:06:23,280 --> 00:06:27,760 And I got to say, yeah, it it, it's doing fabulous work on, on 113 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,240 all of these mixes. And I'm very, very confident for 114 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,240 other producers who are, who have been getting on board with 115 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,800 this kind of stuff and they are starting to really care, 116 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,640 especially independent artists who, you know, many of us, we 117 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:46,720 don't have a place to really work in an optimal environment. 118 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,720 And I always talk to my students about, you know, grab a really 119 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:52,760 good pair of headphones, something you can trust. 120 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,520 I use Odyssey and those kinds of things make a difference for 121 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:00,360 people. We just had Tom Vaughn from 122 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:02,600 Cordy Electronics on our show. The other. 123 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,400 Day, Tom. And we, we. 124 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:05,280 We. I know. 125 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,520 You guys are are very good friends and we were talking 126 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,400 about, you know, just the portability factor of technology 127 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,280 in audio today and how things are getting a lot smaller, but 128 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,600 they're retaining a lot of the quality while doing so and 129 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:20,760 allowing things to be a lot more mobile. 130 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,520 So let's talk about your new headphone, the S 20. 131 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,560 I'm, I'm really excited about getting my hands on this. 132 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,200 You know a good friend of ours, also Mark Urselli, who was also 133 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,280 just on this show. Has also a good friend of mine. 134 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:39,160 Yeah, rating reviews about the S 20 and I understand him. 135 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,840 It uses a very similar technology as you have been 136 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,880 implementing in your electrostatic headphones, which 137 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:51,240 is called the slam tech. So I'd love for you to explain 138 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:56,120 for our audience what's SLAM and why does it make things sound 139 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,680 just more intense, more just big? 140 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:04,680 It's it's really impressive. Yeah, it's, it's curious, one of 141 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,520 the, I would say the main thing that it does, it acts like very 142 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,520 much like a subwoofer. So if you've ever had a room 143 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,560 with speakers and you add a subwoofer to it, you know that 144 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,320 it brings, not only does it bring all that low end that it's 145 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,720 supposed to bring, but it also brings something above the realm 146 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,320 and that that it's working in frequency wise. 147 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,720 So it helps out with imaging, it helps even out frequency 148 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:27,960 response. It makes the drivers work less 149 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:32,000 hard because they don't have to move as much air because this in 150 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,600 in the subwoofers case, the subwoofer is moving more air for 151 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:36,200 them so they have an easier time driving. 152 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,720 In the case of the SLAM system, actually what it is, is a 153 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:44,280 Helmholtz resonator. It's a channel or kind of a horn 154 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:49,520 in a way, variation on that idea where we're expanding the size 155 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,720 of the chamber that is moving the air. 156 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,720 So we're essentially tuning that Channel and it's a channel that 157 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:00,280 runs around. I wish I had a pair here, but I 158 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,960 don't. But it's a channel that runs 159 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,560 around the edge of the driver. So the diaphragm is here and 160 00:09:06,560 --> 00:09:08,080 then you have out here, you have the ear pad. 161 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,320 So it's under the ear pad between the ear pad and the 162 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,040 stator plate, but it's around the diaphragm and it's ported on 163 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,160 both sides. So what it's doing and the 164 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,080 reason we created it actually are the, the sort of main 165 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,200 impetus for it in the, in the case of the carbon electrostatic 166 00:09:22,560 --> 00:09:27,560 was to eliminate this sort of sticky diaphragm situation that 167 00:09:27,560 --> 00:09:29,960 you have with electrostatic headphones. 168 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,960 Sometimes because an electrostatic headphone works by 169 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,600 it has two stator plates which are charged with an 170 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,280 electrostatic field and the diaphragm is in between them and 171 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:39,760 there's very little clearance there. 172 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,920 And in order to get good bass out of an electrostatic, which 173 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,360 is, by the way, something that's almost unheard of until we came 174 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,360 along and made carbon, in order to get decent bass, you have to 175 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,600 have a certain amount of flex in the in the diaphragm. 176 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,600 It has to have excursion, right, to be able to move those low 177 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,280 frequencies. So there's always this balancing 178 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,680 act between having enough excursion and getting too close 179 00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:02,800 to the stator plate and having it stick and then when it peels 180 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,720 off goes. And so you can get this kind of 181 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,560 thing that happens with a lot of electrostatic. 182 00:10:09,560 --> 00:10:14,200 So we were looking for a way to reduce that or in what we ended 183 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,280 up with was pretty much getting rid of it entirely. 184 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:21,080 And so the SLAM channels were originally intended to do that. 185 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:25,480 And what we also realized during the research, and by the way, it 186 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,480 took them about two years to fully implement all this stuff, 187 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,200 they realized that it actually is acting like a horn. 188 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,280 It's increasing the bass response and it's tunable. 189 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,680 So the size and dimensions of that Channel are tuned 190 00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:42,120 specifically to the headphone that they're made for. 191 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,640 And, and now we have 2 headphones that have it. 192 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:50,480 First was the Carbon 2 which increase the base response a lot 193 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,240 in electrostatic, which now we have an electrostatic that 194 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,800 actually has like usable information down below 40 Hertz, 195 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,560 which pretty much unheard of. And then we ported that over now 196 00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:03,560 into the LCDS 20, which is one of our most affordable 197 00:11:03,560 --> 00:11:07,240 headphones. So what we have been trying to 198 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:10,120 do for the past three or four years is make a close back that 199 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,640 was kind of produced for musicians tracking in a studio. 200 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:19,080 We wanted to get away from this sort of pointy sound signature 201 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,520 that's really fatiguing. And we wanted to bring in 202 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:26,960 something that had more low end and a more full round, but still 203 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:28,880 still neutral sort of sound signature. 204 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:35,880 And when you put close, close back cups on a dipole diaphragm 205 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,840 like we use because our diaphragm dipole means it 206 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,200 radiates equally forward and back, sort of like a Figure 8 207 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:42,560 microphone, but in reverse, right? 208 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,600 So part of the way our headphones work is the the 209 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,360 frequency or the I should say, the vibrating air moves in both 210 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,720 directions equally. So you're vibrating out away 211 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,880 from your ears as well as in. So when you close the back of a 212 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:01,360 headphone, you create sort of a pressure wave on the inside 213 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:03,640 where it limits the excursion of the diaphragm. 214 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,320 And you also get reflections off the cup that changes the 215 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,520 frequency response. And usually there's kind of like 216 00:12:09,560 --> 00:12:12,440 a, you know, 200 Hertz bump and then there's a bump around like 217 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,520 kind of a wide one depending on the shape and everything around 218 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:21,520 5K say. So what you end up with is extra 219 00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:25,560 upper mid range and a little bit of bump around like bass guitar 220 00:12:25,560 --> 00:12:27,920 realm. But so we were looking for 221 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,280 something that would help even out that bottom end and bring 222 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:36,000 back the sub frequencies that sort of get lost when you close 223 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,640 the back. And so that's why we thought, 224 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,000 OK, this is a great candidate for SLAM because we can now have 225 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,520 a closed back headphone that brings in all the low 226 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:48,040 frequencies that you sort of miss with our other closed back 227 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:49,680 headphones in an analog situation. 228 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,440 That's, that's incredible. I mean, the idea of essentially 229 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:59,560 turning a corded speaker into a headphone, but in a way that has 230 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:05,440 a sort of a grace to it with the technology that you're using is, 231 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,480 I'm sure, no doubt a very, very tricky thing. 232 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,000 And that's why I'm pretty sure it took two years for that 233 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,120 research to come through. A lot of testing had to be done. 234 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,520 And I'm sure things like in those internal reflections of 235 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:23,480 the, the material that the cup is made of, how big the cup is. 236 00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:26,440 And like you were mentioning, with the amount of pressure that 237 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:31,160 gets literally backlogged inside that chamber, How does that get 238 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:32,080 released? Right? 239 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:33,480 Because we're dealing with physics here. 240 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:38,560 It's you can't deny that. So these kinds of, and what I've 241 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,920 actually wanted to say as well is that one of the things that I 242 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,560 actually really appreciated about working with Odyssey is, 243 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,400 you know, this is not my only Odyssey pair, but you know, I'm 244 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:53,920 about to acquire my third pair. And it's really because I'm, I, 245 00:13:53,960 --> 00:14:00,240 I, I found a part of my journey in headphones that I never had 246 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:05,640 before, which is this purpose built item that I could really 247 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,440 use it for many different things because it is that good. 248 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,720 But it's also really like good at telling me certain kinds of 249 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,480 information between the different models. 250 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,640 So I'm having like so much fun just exploring this stuff, 251 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:22,920 comparing and going back and forth. 252 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,440 And I can't wait to get my hands on this closed pair because 253 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,480 these open pairs are great at mixing in that fidelity. 254 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,080 And all that pressure is gone because of the open back. 255 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,720 But I was always really curious how this was going to be used in 256 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,120 something more closed back, which you already have. 257 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:43,480 I believe it's the XC if I. Yeah, we actually have. 258 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:45,760 Technically, we have 4 closed backs now. 259 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,880 We have the LCDXC that you mentioned, which is like our 260 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,560 Premium 1 is basically an LCDX with a closed back instead of an 261 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,480 open back. And then we have the LCD 2 262 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,680 classic or LCD two close back is the official name. 263 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,440 So we have the LCD two close back, which is basically an LCD 264 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,640 2 classic with a cup. So that's a little more warm, 265 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:10,440 little more forgiving, but you know, still pretty bulky and and 266 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:14,360 a little bit harder to drive. So what we wanted to do was move 267 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,680 kind of from that and those are our two analog ones. 268 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:22,720 We wanted to move from that sort of heavier, bulkier thing down 269 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,640 to a little bit lighter weight thing, which is where we then 270 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,720 come with this Maxwell chassis, which Maxwell being our third 271 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:31,600 close back. But it's an active headset, 272 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:33,720 digital. You have a pair, you know how 273 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,360 they work. You can't just plug it into an 274 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,400 audio interface and track with it necessarily. 275 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,160 It's not really made for that. So we wanted to make something 276 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:45,920 that you could plug into an audio interface, have it be easy 277 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,280 to drive, get good volume out of it, but have it not be fatiguing 278 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,360 and a little bit lighter weight and less bulky and also less 279 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,760 deer in the wallet, if you know what I mean, because it's more 280 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:57,560 affordable. So you can kind of feel like, 281 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,120 should I give this to the drummer? 282 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,040 Maybe not the drummer, Maybe you don't give them to the drummer, 283 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,120 but you can give them to the guitarist, the bass player, the 284 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,320 singer for sure. You know, so so you don't have 285 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:11,880 to feel so precious about them as you would one of our upper 286 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:17,080 end close backs. 100% And that is such a really smart approach 287 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:21,080 for Odyssey as a company. I think you guys having such a 288 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,320 rich history in audiophile communities, having that 289 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:28,520 experience, knowing what it takes to create the best 290 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:33,360 headphones in the world and then bringing it down to a market 291 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:39,120 where you can serve the rest of consumers who want to aspire. 292 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:44,200 But also don't have the funding to get to that point yet. 293 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:48,840 So it's a, it's a great middle ground for an introductory 294 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,000 headset for somebody looking to get into the professional realm. 295 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:57,360 It's also for the professional who's looking to have a more 296 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,400 affordable, maybe replaceable option for things like recording 297 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:05,800 drums, which of course I do. So I know exactly what you mean. 298 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:11,079 I've broken pairs before and I'm willing to test these ones out 299 00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:12,680 right. I hope they're built like tanks 300 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,200 so. Yeah, well, they're built very 301 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,200 much like the Maxwell, which you're already familiar with. 302 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,240 I mean, it's the same headband design, very similar cups, very 303 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:21,880 similar yolks. It just doesn't have the 304 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,640 electronic circuitry inside. And it has some, some more 305 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,640 refined kind of, you know, pro audio sort of features as 306 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,080 opposed to being made specifically for gaming, which 307 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:32,920 is where the Maxwell came from. Yes. 308 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:37,840 And yeah, the Maxwell I, I can definitely tell, you know, it's, 309 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,920 it's built very well. I, I take it on the go to work 310 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,720 all the time. I use it while I'm at the school 311 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:46,760 when I'm reviewing students projects. 312 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:48,760 It, it's a really, really powerful tool. 313 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,520 Despite the fact that you guys market it as a gaming headset, 314 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,280 it's actually a pro audio headset with gaming features. 315 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,520 Yeah, it's sort of, it's sort of a wolf in sheep's clothing in 316 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,600 that way, you know. And and this actually, we didn't 317 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:03,320 really intend it as a pro headphone. 318 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,360 And this is how we originally got into the pro market. 319 00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:11,000 By the way, we made the LCDX over 10 years ago now and we 320 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,960 released it and it was, you know, kind of like our easy to 321 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,880 drive audio file headset. But the way it turned out, a lot 322 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,360 of pro people actually discovered, wow, these are 323 00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:22,080 pretty neutral, I can mix with this. 324 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,040 So they adopted it, we didn't point it at them, and now it's 325 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,960 more known as a pro headset, even though it wasn't made for 326 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,320 that market, but it definitely works well for that market. 327 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:34,200 Actually, I have a Maxwell right here. 328 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,440 I can kind of show you like some of the stuff that's going on. 329 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,880 So this will be similar in the S 20 as well, where that the 330 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,160 headband strap is, is easily replaceable, removable. 331 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:48,640 The ear pads also pop right off in the case of the S 20. 332 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,880 In the case of the S 20, they're actually magnetic. 333 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,360 So this is our first, it'll be our first headphone with a 334 00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:56,440 magnetic ear pad. So you just pull it off. 335 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,480 So when you're working in studios, that's a great tool 336 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,560 because if you're, you know, tracking with somebody new and 337 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,360 maybe your last guy was a little sweaty. 338 00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:06,440 So you just pop some new ear pads on there and you're good to 339 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:07,680 go. Same with the strap. 340 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,560 And also because there are much fewer moving parts, there's no 341 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:15,080 sliders and that kind of thing. It's just like basically a hinge 342 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,080 here and a, and a hinge here. Just twisting, pivoting, no 343 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,840 sliding, pulling, whatever those because those are the parts that 344 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,560 always break first on a headphone is those kind of like 345 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,680 thin moving things that have to do a lot of stress where all our 346 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,840 stress parts here are robust and there's very little plastic in 347 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:34,400 this headphone. It's almost all metal. 348 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,720 So it's it's built to last it. Clearly. 349 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,720 And I, I, like I said, I can't wait to get my hands on it. 350 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,840 And I'm, I'm actually, you know, I, I, here's a question that 351 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:49,520 actually, I think a lot of folks do ask me, because when I, when 352 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,920 I show them brands like all, the, the moment they're like 353 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,480 eyes like sort of go big and they're like, wow, that's a big 354 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,080 price tag. I, I, I, I tell them, right, you 355 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,200 know, there's really nothing like investing in your 356 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:04,800 monitoring. But like, why would somebody be 357 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,880 better off, for example, buying a pair of Odyssey's rather than, 358 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,280 let's say, doing some calibration software for their 359 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:12,840 headphones that they currently have? 360 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,440 OK, well, calibration software is a whole big can of worms that 361 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,760 you know, we can get into it if you want to, but there's 362 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,040 problems with with a lot of it, the way it works. 363 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,480 But essentially all it does is change frequency response and 364 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,120 there's always a limit to what it can do. 365 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,960 It can't make the the transient response faster. 366 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,240 It can't reduce distortion, can't reduce distortion. 367 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,800 In fact, in many cases it increases distortion. 368 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:43,960 So what you end up with when you use a lot of EQ, especially on a 369 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,880 dynamic headphone where it maybe doesn't take EQ as well, you end 370 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,280 up with a lot more distortion, you know, but you end up with 371 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,520 comb filtering and phase issues and stuff like that when you do 372 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:59,280 these wild crazy EQ moves that sometimes are required to 373 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,280 equalize a headphone to a more neutral state. 374 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:06,440 So we start out with headphones that are A, very neutral to 375 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,960 begin with in frequency response, B, very fast transient 376 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:11,400 response. That's one of the main 377 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,480 advantages of the lightweight diaphragms that we use, and C, 378 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,040 very low distortion. So what that means is they'll 379 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,200 take EQ really well. So you can apply pretty much 380 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,120 whatever curve you want to kind of customize and fine tune the 381 00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:28,400 sound of it without destroying what it's doing on the benefit 382 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:32,120 side. Wow, and do you do you ever 383 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,840 explore calibration on Odyssey headphones too? 384 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,640 Yeah, we do. In fact we have a plug in called 385 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:45,040 Reveal Plus, which we made years ago as sort of it originally was 386 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,520 only an EQ based thing and it was essentially to what we, what 387 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,040 we called level the playing field. 388 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:54,200 So that say you're working on your MMM 5 hundreds, you mix a 389 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,680 record, you send it off to a mastering engineer who's using 390 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,200 LCD Fives. Well, the frequency response 391 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:03,040 between MMM 500 and LCD 5 is similar, but it's not really the 392 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,320 same. So the idea originally behind 393 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,040 reveal was to equalize them so that they have a more similar 394 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,320 frequency response from the out of the gate. 395 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:17,320 So we're basically applying, you know, a fairly mild EQ curve to 396 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,360 not correct but get them more into the same ballpark. 397 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,440 Interesting. So it's kind of a way to help 398 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,240 with translation I'm assuming in that. 399 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,080 Yes, exactly. That's exactly what it was for. 400 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,960 Is 100% a translation tool so that when you do your mixes on 401 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,040 the five hundreds, you send it, maybe you send it to get remixed 402 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,760 by someone who's using LCD XS and LCD XS and M and five 403 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,640 hundreds have a fairly different EQ curve in terms of their 404 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,640 frequency response. So if you apply something like 405 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,800 reveal, then you and that engineer are going to have a 406 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,320 much more similar experience in listening and you'll have fewer 407 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:54,840 revisions, fewer listening notes. 408 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,400 That that was the goal of this, you know, to begin with, as 409 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:04,040 opposed to a more corrective kind of approach, which, you 410 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,720 know, a lot of these companies that are doing like third party 411 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,680 things, they're doing these kind of things to try to make it 412 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,720 sound flat, which in a headphone, there's no such thing 413 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,720 as flat. In fact, flat, a flat like truly 414 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,000 flat frequency response on headphone would sound absolutely 415 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,520 awful and no one would ever buy it. 416 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,680 It would just be terrible because we don't hear that way. 417 00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:27,320 Everyone hears headphones very differently. 418 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:32,880 And so when you apply EQ to sort of make a flat headphone or try 419 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,960 to make it more neutral, you're always going towards what you 420 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,240 think is neutral, which is not going to be the same as what I 421 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,560 think is neutral. So the better approach is 422 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:45,360 actually to use something like, you know, just a regular EQ plug 423 00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:50,360 in maybe on your output bus and then applied gentle curves. 424 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,240 Obviously then you get into this place where you don't want to 425 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,760 boost a bunch, you'd rather cut. So you if you can do cuts around 426 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,120 areas where you feel like something's missing and just not 427 00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:03,160 cut that missing area, then you end up with a much more 428 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,640 effective EQ and it's tuned to your hearing instead of being 429 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,160 tuned by someone else to what they think is neutral. 430 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,640 Right. And that's for I think a 431 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,440 phenomena called head related transfer function, right? 432 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,800 Yeah, HRTF for short. And that's actually a 433 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,600 combination of everything about your Physiology in terms of like 434 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,560 your shoulder dimensions, your head dimensions, the distance 435 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,800 around your head from one ear canal to the other on front and 436 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:35,000 and back, the shape of your ear, the size of your ear, where it 437 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,760 is on your head, all these things. 438 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:41,240 And that's why now because of basically AI based tools, you 439 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,200 can do things like this like in an in an iPhone, you can 440 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:49,520 actually use the video camera to kind of get a model of your 441 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,040 personalized HRTF. Dolby does the same thing for 442 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,960 people working in Atmos where you can get a customized HRTF 443 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,440 curve just using your phone and it actually improves things 444 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,480 greatly. And if you can, if you can go 445 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:06,160 the extra mile of getting a sofa file, I can't remember what that 446 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,800 stands for, but it's spelled just like a couch sofa. 447 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,800 It stands for something, but it's basically they, they 448 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,680 actually go in and they do these really detailed measurements and 449 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,840 they measure impulse responses and blah, blah, blah. 450 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:22,520 And they make you a very customized file that you can 451 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,760 apply in headphone software that accepts it, like APL Virtuoso, 452 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,440 for instance. You can actually input your own 453 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,960 sofa file there and it will customize it for you. 454 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,400 So it's it's tailored to your listening experience. 455 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,920 It's almost like if we just translate that to the clothing, 456 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:43,760 you know, at the moment HRTF in say the Dolby Atmos renderer or 457 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,680 Apple Music or whatever, if you're using a very generic 458 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,160 HRTF, it's sort of like A1 size fits all clothing brand, very 459 00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:53,640 boxy. You know, it doesn't really, 460 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,200 it's not really made for it's made for the average person. 461 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,360 It's not. And, and by the way, average 462 00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:02,360 white guy, it's really. Define what average means. 463 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,280 It's, it's for the average white guy, average middle-aged white 464 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,760 guy probably. So, you know, if, if you fall 465 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,800 with outside that realm, then it's not going to work very well 466 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,800 for you and your experience of the dimensionality of, of 467 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,640 listening to headphones is decreased. 468 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,920 But if you can get to a point where now, OK, I found some 469 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,000 clothes that fit me or maybe I get them tailored and that's 470 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,440 what we're talking about. Custom sofa file is like when 471 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,760 you have a tailor come in and they measure everything and they 472 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,200 make a garment just for you and it fits perfect. 473 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,320 That's what a sofa file does in terms of hearing on headphones. 474 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,880 Wow would would would Odyssey be doing any kind of software like 475 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,680 that? Not that I'm aware of. 476 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,360 We're not really a software company. 477 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,400 The software that we've made has been to serve a specific purpose 478 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,840 related to working with whatever headphone that we're talking 479 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,680 about South, like with Maxwell, there's, there's an app, right, 480 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,720 the Odyssey HQ app which allows you to do 10 band EQ, so you can 481 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,760 customize it to your, your liking or your purpose or 482 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:01,920 whatever. And it also helps with other 483 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,920 stuff. But it really, you know, we're 484 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,480 not really a software company. We had to hire somebody outside 485 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,400 to help us make that and we don't really want to devote a 486 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,720 lot of resources to that. We wanted to vote resources and 487 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,800 R&D dollars to making better headphones. 488 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,560 Well, that's that sounds like a really good priority. 489 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,120 Yeah, yeah. So that's why we're really glad 490 00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:25,680 for companies like like APL making Virtuoso, and they've 491 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,560 integrated Maxwell head tracking, the Dolby Atmos 492 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,560 renderer, same thing, they've integrated Maxwell head 493 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:32,480 tracking. So the head tracking data that 494 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,400 Maxwell has always produced actually gets sent to those 495 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,600 applications and it helps with the overall experience. 496 00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:41,720 Yeah, that, and that's, that's fantastic. 497 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:46,760 And I, I know that you guys are always going around and actually 498 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,600 visiting a lot of conventions and spreading a lot of 499 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,840 educational content as well. It's one of the things that I 500 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,600 love about Odyssey. Shout out to everybody at the 501 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,720 team at Odyssey. Love everybody there. 502 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,680 There's so much love that Odyssey puts into their products 503 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,280 and they put it into their people as well. 504 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,840 I've got so many good things about Odyssey to say. 505 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,440 So Chris, you know, this has been such an enlightening 506 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,960 conversation. You know, especially going into 507 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,640 the future with immersive audio versus stereo. 508 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:24,120 Odyssey is here to help you basically get the best result 509 00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:27,720 that you can possibly make. It eliminates the factors, the 510 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:33,000 variables of the unknown or at least it unveils more factors 511 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,760 than you heard before. And I, I, I can't, I can't 512 00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:41,680 express enough gratitude for that and how much excitement for 513 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,520 the new products that are coming out the S 20, it already has 514 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,640 been on sale. We're just about I think in one 515 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,080 month into orders and stuff like that. 516 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:56,680 But you know, Chris, do you want to share any last either words 517 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,200 or information about the new headphones that our audience can 518 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,160 find? Oh yeah, LCDS 20 is starting to 519 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:05,840 ship now. We're getting a second batch at 520 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,840 the end of this month. So we're going to fulfill. 521 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,640 Basically we're fulfilling all pre sale direct orders this 522 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,520 coming week and then after that, when the second batch arrives, 523 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,600 we'll be able to fulfill any other outstanding orders. 524 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,560 Dealers are getting headphones. They're they're basically 525 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,080 starting to get out there in the market now and we won't have a 526 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:24,520 problem with supply moving forward. 527 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,120 Incredible. Well, thank you so much, Chris 528 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,320 for all of your time. Enjoy your vacation. 529 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,440 I know this was your day off so I appreciate. 530 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:38,080 You 10 days off starting now. Well, thank you everybody for 531 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,480 watching and if you're curious about more information about 532 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,040 Odyssey, go to odyssey.com. And we also have resources on 533 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,840 metal Mastermind for metal and rock musicians to learn how to 534 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,080 do better production, how to to do better music, how to do 535 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,320 Better Business, and all of that. 536 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,840 So go ahead and check our resources for anybody who's 537 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,640 interested. Until then, we'll see you on the 538 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,680 next one. And always remember to create 539 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,320 your own sound.