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Welcome to another episode of 
metal, masterminding metal 

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Mastermind podcast, your host, 
Jason Stallworth, get co-owner 

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of metal, Mastermind on here, 
brother, Can-Can, Dallas. 

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And we have a special guest 
today. 

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Nick Z. 
And guys, we're gonna talk about

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guitar, snobbery or guitar? 
Tone snobbery. 

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Oh Boy. 
Yeah, did I can I make a 

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suggestion of the podcast? 
Can I suggest a rating then? 

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Instead, it's free. 
And even can we mix raining in 

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with Raining Blood and it's 
raining. 

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Bloody men. 
The, Yes Men, it's raining. 

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Bloody Mary, is that got dark 
real quick and really get dark, 

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dude. 
Yeah, so look at the left. 

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Turn, guys, what's up into the 
podcast? 

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Jesus, we have to lighten the 
load a little bit next year. 

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Too early was about to get 
really heavy, no pun intended. 

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Well I'm all in the blood right 
now. 

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It's warm in mice piece. 
You can can skins background. 

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He's got this reddish, like in 
Hades background. 

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Print, you know, mall. 
We need of into it. 

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But then you have the flower 
door to the just kind of offsets

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the whole thing. 
Yeah, right. 

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I know. 
You know, you're like fun fact, 

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actually flowers. 
Fun fact, actually I Lizabeth 

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actually painted that door. 
She's an artist herself who yeah

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this is. 
Thank you, thank you, thank you.

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So let's talk about, let's talk 
about this. 

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Yes. 
And we will what, what about 

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guitar snobbery? 
What makes somebody a snob on 

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guitar owwww? 
I don't play anything other than

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analog. 
JP, bleed nipple have you? 

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That's it. 
Interesting that you're using an

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E, minor diminished chord there 
to me. 

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I would have used the F7 blend. 
That's a snobby ponytail Theory,

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guy, you know? 
Yeah, I mean, there's so much in

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guitar that we have freedom to 
express ourselves with, right. 

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So I think, at what point Do we 
get to a point where it's just a

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little bit too much for what 
needs to happen? 

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I think sometimes as musicians 
we overthink a lot of things and

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when we're getting to something 
like guitar tone, this is 

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definitely one of those out of 
many different things that we 

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can be over thinking about, but 
how much then Jason maybe this 

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is a perfect question for you is
like how much does a guitarist 

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need to really focus? 
Focus on the perfect tone. 

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That's a very good question. 
I mean, from my perspective, I 

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don't want to say, don't worry 
about tone so much, but I kind 

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of don't there's there's there's
like a kind of a static EQ 

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setting. 
I use on my amps and amp sounds 

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and it seems to be the same 
across the board. 

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No matter what I'm using, this 
just what I like to me. 

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If I can't use an amp Sim or a 
and quickly dial in what I like 

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to hear, I'm not going to use 
that. 

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Fortunately, there are plenty of
amplifiers naive. 

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Eh for one the el34 to version 
the amp Sims. 

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I love positive grids bias FX. 
I use their trip there. 

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Triple tread plate. 
I believe they're maysa em along

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with their Celestial speakers. 
There's several others Nick, I 

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know you use neural dsb on some 
but I'm not really like I said, 

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if I can't use my typical 
settings and here something I 

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like I'm on to the next. 
Fortunately, I've really don't 

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come across that problem. 
My quick tip for guitar players,

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as I record to Rhythm tracks, 
hardpan them each the second 

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guitar. 
Sometimes does something a 

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little different so that way 
you've got, you know, you've got

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a really a nice mix in there. 
Nice blend and what I love about

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and we're kind of getting off 
tone. 

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What will get back on that? 
What I love about recording to 

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guitar tracks in hard panting? 
Them is that second guitar and 

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no you don't copy the guitar 
over because that does nothing. 

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But raise volume, you record 
that second guitar track. 

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You're not going to be perfect, 
but it's not going to perfectly 

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match. 
Actual trial of imperfections. 

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Those little nuances will be 
captured to me my opinion. 

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That makes the music a little 
bit more lively. 

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You don't want to be like, 
completely off. 

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Obviously, you got to re-record 
it at that point, but you're 

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going to have those slight 
nuances and in my lead tracks up

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the middle, anything clean, your
ambient, something middle. 

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So I guess I don't focus on tone
and as much because I kind of 

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know what I like already. 
So I just dialed it in and go 

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with it, okay? 
So I have a follow-up question 

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to that because I think a lot of
guitarists identify Their 

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personality, you know, or their 
Persona with guitar tone, right?

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So its just oh, you know, this 
is my sound right? 

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That's kind of like what a lot 
of people say. 

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And, and Nick, I want to ask you
this when somebody comes to, you

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know, even a session where even 
a live show or whatever it might

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be. 
How much do we have to deviate 

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from the concept of? 
Oh, this is like your tone 

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versus this. 
Is what the song needs. 

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Oh God! 
Drop the hammer on that one. 

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You know make it painful. 
Hold on. 

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Cuz here comes the hate mail. 
I deal with this almost every 

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session. 
Almost every session. 

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I do it with us. 
Like I, you know, talked about 

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last time I was here we you know
talks about people wanting to go

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analog versus want to go d-ii 
and doing Sims and stuff like 

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that. 
And I have to have the hard 

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conversations with people about 
expectations about like what, 

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you know, what you're used to 
listening to what you think is 

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important. 
What's what's, you know, mixing 

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wise like what's in the front? 
What do you actually hearing 

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sometimes? 
You know all Azkaban. 

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I'll be like art. 
What's your favorite song? 

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And then I'll play it for him 
and I'll show them the guitar 

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player in specific. 
I'll show them how pushback is 

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guitar is really do. 
You can you hear how far behind 

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the vocals that is? 
And he goes, you know, but it's 

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still there. 
I'm like, I know it's there but 

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it's really you here. 
All far behind the drums and the

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vocals it is like you here 
priority wise, like howdy 

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prioritize. 
It is and it gets all butthurt 

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about it and I'm like, dude, 
it's really important. 

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It's really really important to 
have that guitar sound that 

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saturated sound, but Like in the
grand scheme of things, it's a 

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layer instrument, you know. 
It's a it's a It takes up space.

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Oh, a lot of space. 
It's like a full bandwidth type 

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of instrument. 
Well, when you're dealing with 

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distorted guitars. 
Yeah. 

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It's like it's, it's such a hard
conversation to have, but people

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do get so fucking attached to 
their tone and like, I don't 

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know. 
Like I I appreciate that I 

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really do but there's also the 
the huge conversation which is 

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what is it that you're trying to
do. 

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And can we get realistic about 
what it is that you're trying to

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do? 
Like, first of all, you're 

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playing the guitar. 
Second of all, you're playing it

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through an amp third of all, 
you're playing Distortion, 

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fourth of all. 
You have drums, bass, guitars 

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vocals, maybe keys. 
If you're lucky, I'll get it key

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or whatever. 
But, this idea that like like, 

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you have to embrace that, you 
are in a metal band or a rock 

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band or whatever. 
Everyone wants to think that 

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they're breaking the mold, that 
they're so outside of me. 

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Don't sound like that, man. 
It's like so many bands that are

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here and I'm like, you know, 
what do you guys sound like in 

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there? 
Like, man, we don't like the 

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labor or label ourselves like 
get anything, you know. 

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I feel like we, you know, we we 
sell, you know, we have a little

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bit of like tool influence, but 
you know then we you know, real 

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heavy, you know, like Meshuggah 
in the blubber and they start 

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name it off these bands and you 
listen to him and I'm like, okay

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so you guys sound like you know,
every other band from 12, 2009. 

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He could have just said that, 
you know what I mean? 

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It's like, it's hard to get 
objectivity. 

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It's really, really difficult. 
And I think it's, you know, it's

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like the old adage like, know, 
thyself, know, thyself. 

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Like, if you can detach yourself
and know what kind of band you 

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are, you're going to save 
yourself so much time. 

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This if you just go. 
Hey listen man, we're fucking 

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metal band. 
We want to be heavy, we want to 

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sound good. 
Like if you like and like we 

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talked about last time like 
Micro micro like if you're 

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focusing micro like done on, 
man, we got to be different. 

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We got to be this thing but it 
did it on if you pull it way 

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out, like why can't we just be a
good metal band? 

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The people enjoy listening to 
know what I mean. 

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Do we have to be so different 
because it don't get me started 

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on it because I'll fucking bro 
if you have all of those things 

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you're not different. 
If you have a guitar in your 

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band, you're not different, you 
know what I mean? 

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If you have drums in your band, 
you're not different. 

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If you have a set of Wind chimes
that you beat another human 

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being with and you Mike that and
and Mike the sound of the 

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thumping and the screams and run
it through a delay pedal. 

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Like all right, that's 
different. 

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You're going to get a different 
sound. 

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You know what I mean? 
Let's talk about something 

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really different. 
This is a real hard, that's why 

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I'm coming up with something 
that's unique but if you're 

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doing the things that I've 
described, it's not you. 

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Unique. 
It's just something that we like

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to do and there's nothing wrong 
with that. 

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There's nothing wrong with that,
you know. 

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It's like if you like it it's a 
something in sports like 

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basketball or something like 
that. 

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Like what Jordan did was not 
unique. 

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He just did it very well but it 
was still basketball. 

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You know what I mean? 
Like you still playing 

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basketball so like it's okay to 
be in a metal band and to do 

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that in to that end the whole 
reason I said that is to get to 

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this point. 
If that's true concede that 

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you're going to have a guitar 
tone, it's heavy and it's going 

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to sound good and then drop it. 
Drop the dude lately. 

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I've been on these these fucking
Ginsburg and put out the one not

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pack for the 5150. 
S, nice! 

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You seeing that one notch Cena 
it. 

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I'm looking it up after this 
Beth to this podcast, though. 

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Well, knob I played one Riff on 
it and bought it like that. 

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Well, it's, it's one fucking 
knob. 

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It's there's no tweaking. 
There's no endless bullshit. 

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You just as a gain knob, you 
want your game to turn it up it 

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in the mix. 
Like so I'm a 5150 guy. 

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That's what I Play, I'd like 
5150 incident to selections. 

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Excuse me, that's my rig. 
And when I play it, you know in 

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the live room and you know 
record it and then when I come 

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in here and play it there's very
very little difference that I 

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could tell in the mix. 
I can't tell at all and that's 

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good enough for me. 
Like that's that's great. 

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Like my guitar tone is there? 
It sounds good, it's heavy. 

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Wow, we don't need to endlessly,
pick over this minutiae. 

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It's a waste of time. 
It's a waste of energy and most 

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of all you're fooling yourself. 
Like if it's something that you 

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like to do like design new 
guitar tones and stuff like 

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that. 
Like that's cool. 

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But like and if you're if you're
tweaking guitar sounds to try to

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find things that are cool or 
unique or different, that's also

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cool. 
But if you're just trying to 

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find into the ideal distorted 
tone, But I have a, I have a, I 

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have another question. 
How about effects? 

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Because I know a lot of 
guitarists, also, lets, okay 

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Rhythm guitars are pretty 
straightforward in this sense 

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when it comes to Distortion, but
you know, a lot of guitars also 

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their lead players, they want to
have like a spotlight moment, 

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you know, in their song. 
And they want to add and 

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embellish with different kinds 
of effects. 

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What how far is too many effects
and what how much is made? 

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Maybe not enough of facts, or 
should they keep it as no 

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effects and then leave it to 
post to make it happen? 

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That's, that's interesting. 
So There's two different schools

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of thinking on that the first 
one for me, at least. 

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And I'm sure JS something to say
about this as well is if that 

223
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,700
riff is already written, it has 
effects that are doing something

224
00:13:09,700 --> 00:13:11,400
to the Riff. 
Like if you're playing off the 

225
00:13:11,408 --> 00:13:15,500
delete the delay, if you have a 
running into delaying chorus and

226
00:13:15,500 --> 00:13:18,900
Reverb and stuff, we got like 
and that riff affects the way, 

227
00:13:18,900 --> 00:13:22,400
if it affects the way that you 
play by having that, Effect on 

228
00:13:22,700 --> 00:13:27,400
print it because I want to hear 
your hands moving that affects 

229
00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:28,600
around. 
You know what I mean. 

230
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,500
You've changed the overall sound
of the guitar when we start 

231
00:13:31,500 --> 00:13:33,800
talking about leads and effects 
and stuff like that, we're 

232
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:35,800
basically talking about 
everything that I just said 

233
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:41,100
about Rhythm guitars. 
Is the polar opposite of 

234
00:13:41,100 --> 00:13:43,000
experiment until your nuts fall 
off. 

235
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,300
You know, if you have the time 
to sit there and experiment with

236
00:13:47,300 --> 00:13:51,900
effects and different things and
you know, all of the cool 

237
00:13:51,900 --> 00:13:54,600
effects that are out. 
Now like do that until you turn 

238
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:56,800
blue in the face like that, 
that's where I'm at. 

239
00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:01,200
So I've done it with guys that 
you know obviously if it's a 

240
00:14:01,208 --> 00:14:04,400
more straightforward project or 
if the guitarist you know 

241
00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,600
already has like pre effects 
that he wants like stuff already

242
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,300
died. 
Then they got definitely use 

243
00:14:09,300 --> 00:14:11,900
that but they've done it the 
other way to where we've denied 

244
00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:18,300
it and built built stuff 
backwards as it were and it 

245
00:14:18,300 --> 00:14:21,900
seemed to make more sense. 
I've done that actually, I just 

246
00:14:21,900 --> 00:14:25,300
finished a shoegaze record and I
did a shoegaze record before 

247
00:14:25,300 --> 00:14:28,400
that or we did it both the same 
way where we just basically D. 

248
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:32,900
I'd kind of a rhythm tone in the
web back in it and started 

249
00:14:32,900 --> 00:14:36,900
tweaking and finding sounds that
were incredible, you know? 

250
00:14:38,500 --> 00:14:43,000
Because I mean now I prefer to 
do that because like sitting 

251
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,900
there and having to like play a 
riff and then, you know, tweak 

252
00:14:45,900 --> 00:14:49,100
it or whatever like for me like 
all recorder if and then tweak 

253
00:14:49,100 --> 00:14:51,900
it on a loop. 
You know what I mean? 

254
00:14:51,900 --> 00:14:54,700
Just so I have both my hands and
my full attention on have to sit

255
00:14:54,700 --> 00:14:57,000
there and play the thing, you 
know, make sense. 

256
00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:57,900
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

257
00:14:57,900 --> 00:15:01,600
And Jay so Jay, I know you, you 
strongly have a lot of opinions 

258
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,200
on melodic versus shredding 
solos. 

259
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,400
Where do you feel like effects 
play? 

260
00:15:07,500 --> 00:15:11,100
Into all of that and when is it 
an appropriate time to use 

261
00:15:11,100 --> 00:15:14,400
effects as a guitar player? 
I'm kind of a minimalist when it

262
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,600
comes to the fix, like my metal 
rhythms Rock rhythms. 

263
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,400
I feel like if you use too many 
effects and this probably isn't 

264
00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,500
the case for everyone, this is 
just me, the things kind of get 

265
00:15:23,500 --> 00:15:25,600
lost. 
It can get muddy. 

266
00:15:25,900 --> 00:15:27,900
So I want because I do play a 
lot of riffs. 

267
00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:30,800
I want the clarity to be there 
above everything else. 

268
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,100
I feel like too much effects 
will kind of money that up. 

269
00:15:33,100 --> 00:15:35,400
So, I might use a hint of 
Reverb. 

270
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,000
Now this last album, I recorded.
With my EV a champ. 

271
00:15:39,500 --> 00:15:42,900
I'm very happy with the tone. 
I know, I could probably pass it

272
00:15:42,900 --> 00:15:46,100
on to Nick and he would make it 
sound even better. 

273
00:15:46,300 --> 00:15:47,500
And actually I need to send 
those to. 

274
00:15:47,500 --> 00:15:49,900
You will make a video out of 
that Nick to see if is this a 

275
00:15:49,908 --> 00:15:51,800
workable tone? 
You might say, no, dude, this 

276
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,300
isn't workable to home. 
Well, I'll take mix of butter, 

277
00:15:54,300 --> 00:15:57,900
spin that shit. 
Now, let's Circle right back to 

278
00:15:57,900 --> 00:15:59,600
that. 
But finish we will, we will we 

279
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:01,300
absolutely will talk about that 
real quick. 

280
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,300
And but as far as Rhythm goes, I
don't really record with a lot 

281
00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:07,200
of effects if I'm recording with
a Sims. 

282
00:16:07,500 --> 00:16:10,600
Same thing, I might use a touch 
of Reverb on those just because 

283
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,600
I like I like I don't know does 
something to it for me, although

284
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,500
you probably can't really tell 
when you listen to the overall 

285
00:16:17,500 --> 00:16:19,500
mix. 
But to next point about the 

286
00:16:19,500 --> 00:16:22,300
performance, if playing with a 
certain effects, going to help 

287
00:16:22,300 --> 00:16:24,500
you perform a little bit better,
go with it. 

288
00:16:24,500 --> 00:16:27,000
The thing about plugins is I can
turn the Reverb off after the 

289
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:31,200
fact you know leads real quick. 
I only like to add a little bit 

290
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,000
more mids. 
I might move the mic closer to 

291
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,200
the cone of the speaker so that 
it can cut through the mix, you 

292
00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:38,700
know? 
If you've got the same exact 

293
00:16:38,700 --> 00:16:41,400
tone, as a rhythm sometimes, you
know, the lead knows can get 

294
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:45,100
lost if you're playing lower 
lead notes and the other thing I

295
00:16:45,100 --> 00:16:47,800
do like delay on my leads but 
you Nick, you know, we're 

296
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:52,700
talking earlier, you know, pre 
or post, you know, recording 

297
00:16:52,700 --> 00:16:56,900
within a lot of times I'll put 
the delay plug-in on the track. 

298
00:16:56,900 --> 00:16:59,600
So I can hear it in my 
headphones because that when I'm

299
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,700
playing guitar solos that delay 
does impact the way I play. 

300
00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,700
So I like to hear and of course 
plugins I've got the delay on 

301
00:17:05,700 --> 00:17:07,200
and oftentimes, I'll leave it on
ice. 

302
00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:10,200
I've toyed around with the idea 
of like, recording with a delay 

303
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,200
pedal and just you know what, 
okay, I know it's printed 

304
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,599
already unless I were to use the
DIY of course. 

305
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:19,000
But if I just recorded the am, I
know it's there and I'll just 

306
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,800
have to be happy with that or do
it over again, you know, I'm 

307
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:23,099
always. 
Okay, doing things open. 

308
00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:26,300
So but anyway. 
Yeah, let's listen to you. 

309
00:17:26,300 --> 00:17:27,599
You said, put a pin in the one 
part. 

310
00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:29,600
We're talking about the Rhythm 
guitars. 

311
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,700
Yeah. 
So as far as fitting your guitar

312
00:17:32,700 --> 00:17:35,900
into the mix, it was so it's 
interesting too because I just 

313
00:17:35,900 --> 00:17:38,800
had this conversation. 
With my band. 

314
00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,700
The band I'm in now which is an 
old man band little bit there 

315
00:17:44,700 --> 00:17:50,200
isn't work. 
This you know listen I love it. 

316
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,100
I'm going to I want to be in 
bands until my can't play 

317
00:17:54,100 --> 00:17:55,000
anymore. 
You know what I mean? 

318
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,300
Like I enjoy playing music It's 
my life. 

319
00:17:58,300 --> 00:18:01,700
So nothing like it have a little
band and we've been writing and 

320
00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:04,300
stuff like that. 
And my other guitar players are 

321
00:18:04,300 --> 00:18:08,500
real guitar had guy. 
You know like we were talking 

322
00:18:08,500 --> 00:18:12,100
last time like he came up on 
Metallica and he he writes one 

323
00:18:12,100 --> 00:18:14,600
guitar part. 
I write I write for two guitars,

324
00:18:14,700 --> 00:18:19,000
he writes for one guitar so he's
very nobody in very shreddy and 

325
00:18:19,300 --> 00:18:21,100
like there's not a lot of room 
in what he does. 

326
00:18:21,100 --> 00:18:24,400
I right one guitar does one 
thing won't be tired as the 

327
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:30,900
other thing. 
But anyway We were we were 

328
00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:34,700
jamming this past weekend and we
were talking about tone and he's

329
00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:38,400
like I don't know man your tones
as fucking it sounds so dark and

330
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,900
led me to believe you're black 
and I'm like right on I'm like 

331
00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:43,900
what do you get know like what 
are you missing in it? 

332
00:18:44,700 --> 00:18:47,200
So I went over to the presence 
knob on the 5150 and turned it 

333
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,700
up and I'm like is it this? 
And he's like yeah he's like 

334
00:18:51,700 --> 00:18:54,500
there it is, that's the total 
and that's that's what the fuck 

335
00:18:54,500 --> 00:18:57,400
I've been missing, that's what's
up and I'm like okay I would 

336
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,500
immediately cut that. 
Out of the reason that's not in 

337
00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:05,900
the mix, now is because that 
presence region that 3 to 4 K. 

338
00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,700
Is this? 
Like, you know, the that gets 

339
00:19:09,700 --> 00:19:13,500
cut pretty quickly and mixing, 
you know what I mean? 

340
00:19:13,500 --> 00:19:15,300
Like, I don't, I don't like that
in my mixes. 

341
00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:19,800
That's where the vocals go. 
So super important Point dude. 

342
00:19:19,900 --> 00:19:23,900
Man suit, you know what I mean? 
Like I like I like mids in my 

343
00:19:23,900 --> 00:19:27,100
guitar like they don't sound. 
It doesn't sound you know 

344
00:19:27,100 --> 00:19:28,600
fantastic. 
When you're just sitting there 

345
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,900
playing it by yourself but in a 
mix it sounds incredible. 

346
00:19:32,900 --> 00:19:35,800
And I'm a big-picture guy. 
So he had me turn up the 

347
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,300
presents and I turned up the 
presents and blah blah blah and 

348
00:19:38,300 --> 00:19:40,400
I'm sure it sounds good and I'm 
sure the next time that we play 

349
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:41,900
it's going to sound like a hot 
mess. 

350
00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:46,100
But listen, if he's happy then 
I'm happy like whatever. 

351
00:19:46,100 --> 00:19:49,800
But when it comes to that, To 
that point J of what you're 

352
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:54,700
talking about like like it only 
matters in the context of the 

353
00:19:54,700 --> 00:19:57,500
mix. 
So like I would move your shit 

354
00:19:57,500 --> 00:20:04,900
around so that it retains as 
much of the signal is as humanly

355
00:20:04,900 --> 00:20:09,600
possible. 
With letting the other stuff be 

356
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,200
in the place that it's supposed 
to be in. 

357
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,000
And it, you know, I there's a 
guy that I follow. 

358
00:20:14,100 --> 00:20:17,500
Who's pretty famous? 
Who was this this famous line 

359
00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:20,300
that if everything is loud. 
Nothing is loud. 

360
00:20:20,900 --> 00:20:23,700
Hmm. 
Good point and something. 

361
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,300
That's that's a huge thing. 
Like everyone should have 

362
00:20:27,300 --> 00:20:28,500
everyone. 
That makes the should have that 

363
00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:34,900
on a sign in their studio in big
bold letters because it's super 

364
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,900
super important. 
And I mean when you You start 

365
00:20:36,900 --> 00:20:41,800
getting into that kind of thing.
It's more about like what is 

366
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,700
this frequency? 
Sound like, I want to talk a 

367
00:20:44,700 --> 00:20:46,600
little more about that, man 
about the frequencies. 

368
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,900
Like I you you mentioned how 
this is where the vocals sit? 

369
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,000
Well I don't want my presence 
you know sitting in that Arena 

370
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,800
from the guitar, right. 
Same thing with base would you 

371
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,800
say maybe you don't need as much
bass in your tart tongue because

372
00:20:58,900 --> 00:21:01,300
that starting to get into the 
bass guitar frequencies. 

373
00:21:01,300 --> 00:21:04,000
Maybe the cake like can we talk 
a little bit more just about 

374
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,300
frequencies when it comes to 
dialing in the car? 

375
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,100
I made it to pants like it 
depends on how much your base is

376
00:21:10,100 --> 00:21:13,400
doing what your base is doing 
and I think a lot of people get 

377
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,900
into bands and they you know, 
have one guitar player bass 

378
00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:20,200
player or two guitar players in 
a bass player and especially in 

379
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,400
stuff where there's drop two 
innings. 

380
00:21:23,500 --> 00:21:25,900
Again like it's important to 
Know Your Role. 

381
00:21:25,900 --> 00:21:29,000
It's important to know. 
Like like if you zoom out and go

382
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:30,700
are I what am I really doing 
here? 

383
00:21:31,100 --> 00:21:35,100
Yeah, you know and if your bass 
player is just taking up get a 

384
00:21:35,100 --> 00:21:37,700
little bit of clanking sub 
information, like that's totally

385
00:21:37,700 --> 00:21:42,200
fine and not only not only is 
that not a wasted Endeavor, it's

386
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,700
a very important piece of the 
band to have, but if you're 

387
00:21:46,700 --> 00:21:51,300
playing them like, you know, 
drop a there, drop b or ghetto, 

388
00:21:51,300 --> 00:21:52,700
like be standard. 
If you're playing like a 

389
00:21:52,708 --> 00:21:56,300
baritone, Tuning or extended 
tuning or even like, I mean, 

390
00:21:56,300 --> 00:21:58,100
let's not even get into like 
like eight string. 

391
00:21:58,100 --> 00:22:00,300
Tuning is like, f, you don't 
even need to have a base like 

392
00:22:00,500 --> 00:22:03,200
periphery has three 8-string 
guitars. 

393
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:04,300
Now, they don't have a bass 
player. 

394
00:22:04,500 --> 00:22:05,000
Yeah. 
Really. 

395
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,600
I don't know. 
Also animals is leaders, I think

396
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,100
to they're just Animals As 
Leaders is never on a bass 

397
00:22:10,100 --> 00:22:12,100
player. 
Yeah, they're just okay, guys, 

398
00:22:12,100 --> 00:22:14,900
I'm behind the times 8-string 
guitars, man. 

399
00:22:18,500 --> 00:22:21,000
Well, I mean, that's that's a 
whole different conversation 

400
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:22,500
like pumping and stuff like 
that. 

401
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,100
Teachers thumping and it's a 
it's a classical technique. 

402
00:22:26,100 --> 00:22:30,500
It's unbelievable. 
But anyway, it's important to 

403
00:22:30,500 --> 00:22:33,700
know, you know what I mean? 
It's important to know where 

404
00:22:33,700 --> 00:22:37,300
your stuff is sitting. 
I guess it's really not that 

405
00:22:37,300 --> 00:22:39,700
important to the Layman to the 
late musician or whatever. 

406
00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:42,100
But if your production minded, 
you might want to think about 

407
00:22:42,100 --> 00:22:44,700
these things, right? 
I don't like if you start going 

408
00:22:44,700 --> 00:22:48,400
okay, I was just going to say, 
it can really help in a live 

409
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,600
show. 
Setting enjoy having that 

410
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,100
awareness because now you're 
just How many live shows? 

411
00:22:54,100 --> 00:22:57,100
Do we go to right? 
And the sound sucks, right? 

412
00:22:57,100 --> 00:22:59,300
And it's like, part of that can 
be. 

413
00:22:59,300 --> 00:23:02,900
Also something that can be 
contributed by the musician to 

414
00:23:02,900 --> 00:23:05,100
make it easier. 
Because sometimes, you know, you

415
00:23:05,100 --> 00:23:08,300
get to a venue, let's say they 
don't have a lot, but they have 

416
00:23:08,300 --> 00:23:11,500
maybe just like am a keyboard 
and a Mac, you can do something,

417
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,600
but it's not like it's powerful 
as a digital board where they 

418
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,200
can do surgical moves. 
And on top of that, you have 

419
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,700
like limited time to do, things 
like that. 

420
00:23:18,900 --> 00:23:22,400
So if you are come in with a 
little bit more of a okay, let 

421
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,900
me make this a little A bit 
easier for a mixer to make my 

422
00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:30,900
live show sound better now, 
you're getting off to a better 

423
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,000
head start, right? 
You're already cutting down some

424
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,200
time on what it takes to get 
your mix in the live room to 

425
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,600
sound great. 
So I just want to thank you 

426
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,200
learn to make sure yourself. 
Yeah. 

427
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,200
If you can learn to mix yourself
in the room. 

428
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,700
Holy shit and Stage volume. 
Like I miss it another huge 

429
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:52,400
conversation week and I'd love 
to talk also about that because 

430
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,500
there's there's always been an 
argument about oh, you know, 

431
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,900
well we need to have the guitar 
cabinet super loud because 

432
00:24:00,900 --> 00:24:04,700
that's how we get all this 
saturation tone, which, you 

433
00:24:04,700 --> 00:24:09,300
know, definitely is a thing, you
know, Drive expression from from

434
00:24:09,300 --> 00:24:12,300
the woofer itself. 
But that you all you have to do 

435
00:24:12,300 --> 00:24:15,600
is get the The tone loud enough 
to drive the speaker, anything 

436
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,700
beyond that is nonsense? 
Wow. 

437
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:20,700
Okay. 
So tell me more about that. 

438
00:24:20,700 --> 00:24:24,300
Yeah, let's talk about that man.
Yeah, because if you want Peak 

439
00:24:24,300 --> 00:24:29,400
guitar tone, if you want to know
where your guitar tone hits, the

440
00:24:29,900 --> 00:24:33,700
Apex, it's when it starts 
driving the speaker just loud 

441
00:24:33,700 --> 00:24:36,200
enough to drive the speaker and 
you're done after that. 

442
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:42,300
All you're hearing is like it's 
the same concept of like when 

443
00:24:42,300 --> 00:24:45,300
you're mixing. 
And you make something louder. 

444
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,400
Does it sound better? 
You know what I mean? 

445
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,700
Like if you have mix a and it's 
a one-volume and mixed be is a 

446
00:24:52,300 --> 00:24:54,600
louder volume. 
He say all right, which one 

447
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:55,900
sounds better to the lame 
ending. 

448
00:24:55,900 --> 00:24:58,900
You play the louder one, they're
going to go that one because 

449
00:24:58,900 --> 00:25:00,700
it's louder. 
You know what I mean? 

450
00:25:00,700 --> 00:25:03,500
Or if it has a more trouble in 
it, it's the same exact thing. 

451
00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:07,700
Like it's you're fooling 
yourself by increasing perceived

452
00:25:07,700 --> 00:25:10,500
volume when you turn up the 
amplitude, that's what happens. 

453
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,800
So you have to do is go to drive
the speaker. 

454
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:14,900
The speaker is Moving without 
woofer is moving. 

455
00:25:14,900 --> 00:25:19,800
Like you said. 
Yeah, my caught more, my thought

456
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,600
process on this is coming a 
little bit more from let's say 

457
00:25:23,608 --> 00:25:28,700
microphones because at a certain
point microphones will distort 

458
00:25:28,700 --> 00:25:35,000
and there's actually four for 
the amount of flex that a 

459
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,600
microphone can do. 
There's also like a limit to how

460
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,800
accurate that representation 
ends up being inside the Which I

461
00:25:43,808 --> 00:25:46,100
think they call intermodulation 
Distortion. 

462
00:25:46,500 --> 00:25:50,700
So, I'm wondering if it's the 
same thing with when it comes to

463
00:25:50,700 --> 00:25:53,700
like a speaker. 
So, we have that, let's say it's

464
00:25:53,700 --> 00:25:57,500
pushing too much, right? 
Does it start acting more like, 

465
00:25:57,500 --> 00:26:03,100
it's being Ultra Limited in that
case, and it's not even a good 

466
00:26:03,100 --> 00:26:06,900
tone to even try and go for 
because now you're that that's 

467
00:26:06,900 --> 00:26:12,100
more of a gain thing. 
That a volume thing like, You 

468
00:26:12,100 --> 00:26:15,000
know, once you have your gay and
dialed in, like once you have 

469
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,400
your tone dial, then, whatever 
like turning it up. 

470
00:26:17,700 --> 00:26:19,800
The point, I'm making, is it 
turning it up past a certain 

471
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,100
point? 
Is it going to do anything to 

472
00:26:21,100 --> 00:26:22,500
your tone? 
Yeah. 

473
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:28,600
Now, if you're playing the VFW, 
And they have a very small PA 

474
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,400
turn your amps up. 
You know what I mean? 

475
00:26:33,500 --> 00:26:40,400
If you're playing some venue 
that that's get a thousand, you 

476
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:48,500
know, 5,000 seat venue or 
whatever, turn your amp down, We

477
00:26:48,500 --> 00:26:50,700
have to know, like what the pa 
is doing. 

478
00:26:50,700 --> 00:26:53,000
Like what? 
The job of the PA is. 

479
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,300
The job of the PA is to throw 
your, you know what I mean? 

480
00:26:55,300 --> 00:26:58,200
Like, the front of house is 
gonna mix that and bring that to

481
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,500
the the audience. 
Like, that's not the job of your

482
00:27:00,500 --> 00:27:03,700
amp, like, your stage volume, 
and all of that will come 

483
00:27:03,700 --> 00:27:06,200
through your monitor. 
A lot of people don't know that 

484
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:11,300
especially people that are used 
to playing smaller venues, when 

485
00:27:11,300 --> 00:27:12,700
they go to play big thing, it 
was early. 

486
00:27:12,700 --> 00:27:15,000
What is this bullshit? 
And it's like, no, dude, you 

487
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:16,300
don't need your hands to be that
loud. 

488
00:27:16,300 --> 00:27:18,600
It ruins the mix. 
Right? 

489
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,000
And that's a difference Age. 
We that's the difference. 

490
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,300
We call, I think back line 
reinforcement to actual full on 

491
00:27:24,300 --> 00:27:27,500
sound reinforcement, right? 
So when you're in a smaller 

492
00:27:27,500 --> 00:27:30,300
venue, right? 
It's easier for your, you know, 

493
00:27:30,300 --> 00:27:33,200
equipment to kind of take a 
little bit more of its own. 

494
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:38,100
I, you know, place in sound and 
just having the system just kind

495
00:27:38,100 --> 00:27:40,500
of back that up a little bit 
versus. 

496
00:27:40,500 --> 00:27:45,300
Now you have full on know, we're
using the system as the primary 

497
00:27:45,500 --> 00:27:49,200
Sound Source here. 
So, Yeah, that's a good point. 

498
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:54,200
I did a show Once where I was, I
was doing a band downstairs and 

499
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:59,600
a band upstairs and the room 
downstairs was really small and 

500
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:04,100
really shitty, it was, it was 
kind of like a tunnel, you 

501
00:28:04,100 --> 00:28:05,100
don't? 
I mean, it's like an old 

502
00:28:05,100 --> 00:28:12,300
hardcore venue and I had the PA 
there, I had the kick and snare.

503
00:28:13,500 --> 00:28:15,900
From the drums and the vocals 
going through the pa. 

504
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,500
The rest of my was I told the 
guys in the band was like, turn 

505
00:28:18,500 --> 00:28:21,000
your ramps up until I tell you 
not to they did. 

506
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:27,700
Sounded amazing upstairs was a 
full probably 1500 person venue 

507
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,700
the digital board. 
Literally the exact opposite, 

508
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,800
literally the exact opposite and
I was running up and down the 

509
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,900
stairs, all night doing this 
board, and this board or 

510
00:28:38,900 --> 00:28:41,800
whatever. 
But I mean, yeah, knowing that 

511
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:48,800
stuff. ask someone that that's 
creative and whatever in and, 

512
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,900
you know, having that it, as 
part of your skill set, it just 

513
00:28:52,900 --> 00:28:56,000
puts you so far ahead of the 
Curve, You know? 

514
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,700
It's my and again my their 
guitar player I'm in a band with

515
00:28:59,700 --> 00:29:02,400
this guy now. 
And he's like, he has this, this

516
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,800
board this line 6 or whatever 
that, you know, healings doing 

517
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,100
digital. 
He what's that the Helix right? 

518
00:29:08,100 --> 00:29:09,900
The land sakes Helix he's 
playing well, I don't know, I 

519
00:29:09,908 --> 00:29:12,300
don't know what it is. 
He's, it's, it's something where

520
00:29:12,300 --> 00:29:17,400
he can like dial in the stage on
his iPad, like, you know, he 

521
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,400
can, he can dial it all in and 
then send it to the sound guy. 

522
00:29:20,700 --> 00:29:23,100
They just have the sound guy, 
turn it up, and I'm like, bro, 

523
00:29:23,100 --> 00:29:27,200
the sound guy has a job to do. 
Because he knows that room. 

524
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,600
Like, why are you doing his job 
for him? 

525
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,400
Look what like I'm like, are you
out of your mind? 

526
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,500
You're going to, you're going to
mix our band and then just leave

527
00:29:36,500 --> 00:29:39,200
it statically and make no 
adjustments as we're playing 

528
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,700
like Yeah, I can't think of a 
worse idea. 

529
00:29:44,300 --> 00:29:46,800
How much let the sound guy. 
Be the salaries we were going to

530
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,900
go to shitty song? 
I'm like, no, you're not. 

531
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,900
Not if you have like a good 
solid tone and uuo in there, 

532
00:29:52,900 --> 00:29:55,600
knowing what you have to do, 
like, they'll dial the room and 

533
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,000
you know what I mean? 
It's easy peasy. 

534
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,300
Yeah, the moral of the story 
here is, is as a guitar player, 

535
00:30:02,300 --> 00:30:05,100
and I know that's guitar players
we can be as little snobby 

536
00:30:05,100 --> 00:30:09,400
sometimes with the tone, but 
it's a good idea to just, listen

537
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,600
and trust and work with your 
sound engineer. 

538
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:17,800
Not against the sound engineer. 
Always, always, it's so hard. 

539
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:24,100
I remember when I was a kid and 
the Egos and Just the way I was 

540
00:30:24,100 --> 00:30:26,700
when I was young versus the way,
I am now knowing what I know. 

541
00:30:26,700 --> 00:30:29,500
Now, you know, again, if I had 
known, then what I know now and 

542
00:30:29,500 --> 00:30:34,000
just like disrespecting their 
gear and just shitting all over 

543
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,000
their opinions like they would 
somebody would try to tell me 

544
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,500
something I'm like you can't 
tell me shit the fuck out of my 

545
00:30:38,500 --> 00:30:43,500
face you know, looking back to 
it now I'm just like ah what a 

546
00:30:43,500 --> 00:30:50,900
fucking idiot piece of shit. 
I was a punk rock about it. 

547
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,000
You just ruined your sound. 
So great job, Tech. 

548
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,900
That's you know what I mean is 
important. 

549
00:30:58,900 --> 00:31:02,000
But I mean personally I'd rather
focus more first. 

550
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,300
We're talking about recording, 
going back to the studio, my 

551
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,200
core focus is more on the song 
itself and it's this song 

552
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,300
resonating with me, is it you 
know, in my bringing something 

553
00:31:13,300 --> 00:31:16,600
out that's within me, you know? 
And that's important to me. 

554
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,800
So definitely like vocals and 
lyrics are probably more 

555
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,000
important than anything than the
guitar. 

556
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,800
You know tone and playing live. 
Well, I'd rather be playing, you

557
00:31:26,808 --> 00:31:31,000
know, I don't want to. 
I feel like we're bashing the 

558
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:35,200
shit out of guitar players right
now and I don't want to pretend.

559
00:31:35,500 --> 00:31:38,300
It wasn't what you say a little 
bit you know it's okay. 

560
00:31:38,300 --> 00:31:41,500
Now this is the thing is that 
like guitar players are super 

561
00:31:41,500 --> 00:31:46,200
super super fucking important 
and I mean obviously it's the 

562
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,000
most talked-about thing-- for a 
reason. 

563
00:31:48,300 --> 00:31:51,400
Sure it's not to say that what 
you're doing is an important or 

564
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,400
that tone isn't Horton. 
It's just, it's only important 

565
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,200
up to a point to a certain 
point. 

566
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,300
Write to me, at least, you know 
what I mean? 

567
00:31:58,300 --> 00:32:00,300
Like, I'm not going to sit here 
and pretend like tone isn't 

568
00:32:00,300 --> 00:32:01,600
King. 
Like tone is King. 

569
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,300
Dude, we gotta the better your 
tone, you know? 

570
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:10,800
But there's a fucking, there's 
a, there's a cut-off to that is 

571
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,000
the point. 
I'm trying to make like, get 

572
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,100
your tone good and then, all 
right, good. 

573
00:32:16,100 --> 00:32:18,600
You know what I mean? 
Like, let's keep it moving like 

574
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,600
that, that One DB of trouble 
that you add. 

575
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,100
It is. 
Not, you know, and in a studio 

576
00:32:25,100 --> 00:32:29,700
setting it's totally moot but 
live, it's almost just as movie,

577
00:32:29,700 --> 00:32:32,000
you know what I mean? 
Like, yeah. 

578
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,500
Now also, analyze, don't 
overanalyze, don't overthink 

579
00:32:34,500 --> 00:32:36,500
your tone, get it to a good 
point. 

580
00:32:36,500 --> 00:32:40,600
And okay, let's go with that. 
My final question to both of you

581
00:32:41,100 --> 00:32:46,700
as you are both guitars, right? 
I want to know at what point in 

582
00:32:46,700 --> 00:32:51,200
your career. 
Did you disassociate from being 

583
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,600
too focused on? 
On something like that to seeing

584
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,000
the bigger picture. 
Maybe we'll start with Jason in 

585
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,600
this case first. 
Give me a five played in a live 

586
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,300
setting. 
Pretty much my entire life at 

587
00:33:04,300 --> 00:33:08,000
some capacity since I was 15 
years old or 16. 

588
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,500
I'll say a started playing at 
15, played with bands, played a 

589
00:33:11,500 --> 00:33:15,400
lot of churches, played a lot of
solo acts all that good stuff 

590
00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:19,500
back in the day. 
I was dead set on playing 

591
00:33:19,500 --> 00:33:22,100
through my DigiTech her P10 
processor. 

592
00:33:22,100 --> 00:33:26,200
I ran it through a PV Bandit amp
to 12 and then later I got a 

593
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,800
crate. 
Full stack. 

594
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,300
I believe it wasn't remember the
model, but is 120 watt 

595
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,200
solid-state stack. 
But I ran my DigiTech through 

596
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:38,000
those clean channels. 
So, it might even be safe to say

597
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,000
my tone may have not been that 
great back then. 

598
00:33:41,100 --> 00:33:43,000
I don't quite remember when I 
record it. 

599
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,500
I recorded direct with that 
processor, and that's what I 

600
00:33:45,500 --> 00:33:48,800
primarily use. 
But it was the sound that I 

601
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:50,500
like. 
So, I was pretty picky about 

602
00:33:50,500 --> 00:33:53,500
that. 
But I'd say over the past 

603
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:59,000
because nowadays, I record with 
my life and my evh 5150, Him and

604
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,400
some plugins. 
I got specific set of plugins, I

605
00:34:01,408 --> 00:34:04,500
use and that's just my go-to. 
I've gone back and forth on 

606
00:34:04,500 --> 00:34:07,200
things a few times. 
But I'd say probably about three

607
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,400
or four years ago. 
I'm like, you know what, I have,

608
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,900
what I like I'm going to stop 
going down this Rabbit Hole of 

609
00:34:12,900 --> 00:34:15,100
like, gotta find a nest next 
best amps in. 

610
00:34:15,100 --> 00:34:18,100
Do this new product just came 
out the quad cortex, this that 

611
00:34:18,100 --> 00:34:20,500
and the other. 
And we're, you know, we got all 

612
00:34:20,507 --> 00:34:22,600
these new things coming out like
every week. 

613
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,699
It seems like and I just don't 
care so much anymore. 

614
00:34:25,699 --> 00:34:28,000
I like the sound. 
I have, I might switch. 

615
00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:30,300
To something else. 
I won't necessarily call that an

616
00:34:30,300 --> 00:34:32,100
upgrade. 
Oh, just me be doing something 

617
00:34:32,100 --> 00:34:33,900
different, for the sake of doing
something different. 

618
00:34:33,900 --> 00:34:37,300
You know, if, if you know, I'm 
playing solo acts right now. 

619
00:34:37,300 --> 00:34:41,000
I played those selects acoustic 
a little bit electric mainly 

620
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,900
through the Pod go Line, 6 Pod 
go, is it the absolute best tone

621
00:34:44,900 --> 00:34:46,100
or guitar player is going to 
come out? 

622
00:34:46,100 --> 00:34:49,800
It's like oh I love your tone. 
Probably not quite a few 

623
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,400
compliments on it here and 
there, you know but it fits it 

624
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:58,100
just works and it's to me in 
some things in life. 

625
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,800
You get to the point where, you 
know, good enough is that 

626
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,700
Perfection. 
Because as we talked about once 

627
00:35:03,700 --> 00:35:05,900
you get to that point and go 
beyond that, you're just 

628
00:35:05,900 --> 00:35:08,900
tweaking and doesn't really 
sound better after the two 

629
00:35:08,900 --> 00:35:10,200
hours. 
You spent tweaking? 

630
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,500
I don't know. 
So anyway, I'd say it happened 

631
00:35:13,500 --> 00:35:14,700
about three, four years ago for 
me. 

632
00:35:15,100 --> 00:35:18,900
Wow Nick you want to, you want 
to tag onto that? 

633
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:21,500
I don't even remember what the 
question was. 

634
00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:27,900
I was so what Jay, so intently 
and what like, what AJ, what do 

635
00:35:27,900 --> 00:35:30,800
you mean? 
What a, what a, what point did 

636
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:35,200
you go from focusing much on 
tone to focusing on the bigger 

637
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,700
picture? 
It's hard. 

638
00:35:37,700 --> 00:35:43,700
That's a hard question, I guess.
Maybe around like 20 years ago 

639
00:35:43,700 --> 00:35:51,300
or so. about 20 years ago or so 
when I was in my 20s was around 

640
00:35:51,300 --> 00:35:53,900
the time that I could start to 
afford the gear that I always 

641
00:35:53,900 --> 00:36:00,200
wanted, it started to wind up 
with like half sacks and you 

642
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:05,800
know, and Marshalls and all 
sorts of good tones and stuff 

643
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:13,900
like that, and You know, it was 
that was the Step Up from the 

644
00:36:13,900 --> 00:36:16,900
old like playing with combo amps
and stuff like that. 

645
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,400
Like shit that you really didn't
want to be playing with, you 

646
00:36:19,408 --> 00:36:23,100
know what I mean? 
But I mean it's important to say

647
00:36:23,100 --> 00:36:24,800
to that. 
I'm not really a guitar player 

648
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,400
like I'm not exclusively a 
guitar player, I don't like like

649
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,300
my man. 
Dina was a guitar player, you 

650
00:36:30,300 --> 00:36:33,400
know what I mean? 
He'll fucking Play like the 

651
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:34,600
Berkeley kids. 
You know what I mean? 

652
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,100
Eight hours a day for years and 
years and years like that kids a

653
00:36:38,100 --> 00:36:39,600
fucking guitar player. 
I'm not. 

654
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,600
I'm a Pianist, you know. 
I just like playing the guitar 

655
00:36:43,700 --> 00:36:45,700
which is a huge distinction so I
don't want you to get it 

656
00:36:45,700 --> 00:36:51,000
twisted. 
But yeah, around 20 years ago or

657
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,300
so. 
Like when we started to be able 

658
00:36:53,300 --> 00:36:59,100
to use those, you know, that 
high end gear, that quality gear

659
00:36:59,500 --> 00:37:03,000
was around the time where I 
really started to stop mattering

660
00:37:03,700 --> 00:37:07,900
because I would see people do 
this thing that I'm explaining 

661
00:37:07,900 --> 00:37:13,000
this this the forever switching 
out, amps and forever, fucking 

662
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:19,900
chasing down this, this You 
know, elusive tone that's always

663
00:37:19,900 --> 00:37:22,900
over the next Horizon, not all, 
it's just over the next Horizon.

664
00:37:22,900 --> 00:37:26,400
It's just over the next Horizon 
and like, like I'm all for like,

665
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,400
you know, bettering your sound 
and making things sound cooler 

666
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,400
and stuff like that. 
But like again, you know, like I

667
00:37:31,408 --> 00:37:36,100
said last podcast, they do it in
a vacuum, they sit in and play 

668
00:37:36,100 --> 00:37:40,200
in front of the ramp Ad nauseam,
too close to the ramp because 

669
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,300
they have to go back and forth 
to the I'll attend. 

670
00:37:42,500 --> 00:37:47,300
It's just And to me like back 
them, like once I got something 

671
00:37:47,300 --> 00:37:49,400
that sounded really good. 
I was like, okay, that's the 

672
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:53,200
sound I was looking for. 
You know what I mean and it's 

673
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,000
changed over the years, it 
hasn't stayed static but I mean 

674
00:37:56,300 --> 00:38:02,400
in 20 years it's probably moved 
from you know Gibson through 

675
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:11,700
Marshall to PRS through 5150, 
you know what I mean. 

676
00:38:11,700 --> 00:38:15,000
Like there's there's huge 
differences in those tones and 

677
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,900
you got to know which one of 
those tones you want to use but 

678
00:38:19,300 --> 00:38:22,700
Like the the tweaking of the 
tone is an endless, like it get 

679
00:38:22,700 --> 00:38:25,400
a tone that sounds good. 
And like our here, we go, let's 

680
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,000
go. 
Let's fucking go, you know what 

681
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,600
I mean? 
It's not You know what I'm 

682
00:38:29,607 --> 00:38:32,600
saying? 
Yes, so one, final question, I 

683
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,100
think just to kind of round off 
our conversation of all of this,

684
00:38:36,700 --> 00:38:41,100
which one's more important, a 
higher quality guitar, or a 

685
00:38:41,100 --> 00:38:45,700
higher quality amplifier, or are
they both or? 

686
00:38:45,700 --> 00:38:46,500
Is it? 
None of them? 

687
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:52,800
Wow, man. 
That's a, I think. 

688
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,500
I mean, me, personally, I might 
would choose the higher quality 

689
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,100
guitar, and now, let me preface 
by Saying that doesn't mean it 

690
00:39:00,100 --> 00:39:03,800
has to be some, you know, 2,000 
or 5,000 dollar guitar. 

691
00:39:04,700 --> 00:39:08,100
What I would say is like I do 
most of the middle of the road 

692
00:39:08,100 --> 00:39:11,600
guitars in my opinion that are 
anywhere between like 900 and 

693
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,200
maybe 1,500, maybe a little more
these days, like an Ibanez 

694
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:21,300
Prestige, like a the ESP LTD 
models there there m-1000. 

695
00:39:22,300 --> 00:39:25,500
I'd rather have the guitar only 
because that's going to impact 

696
00:39:25,500 --> 00:39:28,300
my performance. 
If I have a crappy guitar and it

697
00:39:28,300 --> 00:39:31,800
doesn't play, Well, and it just 
is just crap. 

698
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:36,200
Well, I could be playing through
the most awesome rig ever, but 

699
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,300
I'm not going to get my typical 
performance out of it, you know.

700
00:39:39,300 --> 00:39:43,100
So I mean, I don't want to play 
through a crappy amp but if 

701
00:39:43,100 --> 00:39:47,500
you're giving me a choice which 
one you know, I'll make the best

702
00:39:47,500 --> 00:39:50,600
with the hiring guitar as 
opposed to a crappy guitar. 

703
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,700
Okay. 
Nick I have so much to say about

704
00:39:55,700 --> 00:40:00,900
this so much to say Why must 
eat? 

705
00:40:00,900 --> 00:40:04,000
Here we go. 
Alright so first of all, when it

706
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,900
comes to guitars I don't think 
price matters that much I think 

707
00:40:07,900 --> 00:40:13,500
once you so in my experience 
there's a tear of guitar which 

708
00:40:13,500 --> 00:40:19,500
is like $50 to about $250 where 
you're going to get a similar 

709
00:40:19,900 --> 00:40:25,500
playing instrument and then 
there's 250 to about 600 where 

710
00:40:25,500 --> 00:40:28,400
you're going to get a similar 
playing instrument and then 

711
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,900
dollars and up in my experience.
And that means, six hundred 

712
00:40:32,900 --> 00:40:35,300
dollars all the way to 18 
thousand dollars. 

713
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,800
There's not going to be a huge 
amount of difference, dude, the 

714
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,700
guitar behind me, the PRS. 
It sitting on the wall is $1300.

715
00:40:43,700 --> 00:40:46,400
It's got a plastic nut. 
It's plastic. 

716
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:51,500
I mean it it's a joke. 
Like does it play good? 

717
00:40:51,500 --> 00:40:54,900
Yeah, it's it plays. 
Okay, you know what I mean? 

718
00:40:54,900 --> 00:40:58,000
But I had a PRS, it was $600. 
It doesn't play better than 

719
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,500
that. 
The So did the extra you know, 

720
00:41:00,500 --> 00:41:03,700
700 hours that I spent on that 
guitar did not change the 

721
00:41:03,700 --> 00:41:08,100
playability of the guitar. 
So first if you can get a guitar

722
00:41:08,100 --> 00:41:10,600
in the six hundred dollar range,
I think you'll be set forever. 

723
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:12,400
And I think, what's more 
important than getting? 

724
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:18,600
It's a guitar that's expensive 
is a guitar that you can play 

725
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:22,500
well. 
Yeah, that you can play well 

726
00:41:22,500 --> 00:41:25,100
specifically the one, because 
that's your interface. 

727
00:41:25,100 --> 00:41:27,200
You know what I mean, man. 
Like if you can find one that 

728
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:32,200
your hands love you, Cool. 
The other huge consideration is,

729
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,600
are you playing what kind of 
music are you playing? 

730
00:41:35,500 --> 00:41:38,900
Like are if you're playing 
shreddy 80s metal you better 

731
00:41:38,900 --> 00:41:45,400
have a high-end guitar because 
the cheaper their guitar, the 

732
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,200
more you're going to lose 
intonation. 

733
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,300
You know what I mean? 
The wood is going to be cheaper,

734
00:41:51,300 --> 00:41:53,900
you're going to get compressed 
particle. 

735
00:41:53,900 --> 00:41:56,500
Would your truss rods? 
Aren't going to be as good if 

736
00:41:56,500 --> 00:41:58,900
they're just they're not going 
to be as well. 

737
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,500
Built, if you're playing Rhythm 
guitars and your way down at the

738
00:42:02,500 --> 00:42:05,900
bottom of the neck and you know,
you're barely getting up past 

739
00:42:05,900 --> 00:42:09,500
the fifth fret, you can have a 
two hundred dollar, Jackson the 

740
00:42:09,500 --> 00:42:13,000
fucking rips for that. 
I put a laundromat in it that 

741
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:17,500
motherfucker got about it, but I
mean, and again, I have to tune 

742
00:42:17,500 --> 00:42:19,500
it, you know, every time that I 
play a song. 

743
00:42:19,700 --> 00:42:23,100
Yeah, because it's not well 
built in that way. 

744
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:28,800
So I'm, you know, I would lose 
that. and as far as amps go 

745
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:36,400
like, If you like the way the 
tone sounds, that's all that 

746
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,400
matters, you know what I mean? 
Like, if you're happy with it, 

747
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:44,100
like I said, like, once you get 
to that level of gear where you 

748
00:42:44,107 --> 00:42:47,300
can get like a good Half Stack 
with selections or Sheffield 

749
00:42:47,300 --> 00:42:50,300
some like by an app that you 
like, like a nice head or 

750
00:42:50,300 --> 00:42:51,800
whatever. 
Or even now looking nice 

751
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:56,100
processor, like the quad cortex 
are like the helix or something 

752
00:42:56,100 --> 00:42:57,300
like that. 
Like if you can get something 

753
00:42:57,300 --> 00:42:59,800
like that and get a good 
sounding Tony you like that's 

754
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:01,100
all that. 
Otters. 

755
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,500
So like, I, you know, I skirted 
the question by trying to 

756
00:43:04,500 --> 00:43:08,400
explain away my answer and the 
answer. 

757
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,700
Good answer Nick. 
Well, the answer is what's your 

758
00:43:10,707 --> 00:43:13,900
priority, okay? 
If you're doing something like 

759
00:43:13,900 --> 00:43:18,200
Jays doing where you, you know, 
you need to be in the upper 

760
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,500
parts of the fretboard. 
Buy more expensive guitar, 

761
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:22,900
because you're going to lose 
that. 

762
00:43:23,100 --> 00:43:25,800
If you're a rhythm guy, you can 
get away with a cheaper guitar 

763
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,400
and maybe spend more money on an
amp. 

764
00:43:27,900 --> 00:43:29,800
That would be my answer for 
that. 

765
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,600
Great You talk about a real 
quick though. 

766
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:37,000
We were talking about because I 
know they're making really great

767
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,600
solid state like the orange. 
They have a new solid state a 

768
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,200
out and I haven't played through
one yet. 

769
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,600
I'm hope play through one at the
local guitar store. 

770
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:46,800
Replay, Guitar, Exchange coming 
up. 

771
00:43:46,808 --> 00:43:51,000
When I go there next week or 
actually, it's this week, will 

772
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,300
you is there a huge difference? 
Nick? 

773
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:57,600
And it's the whole probably 
different conversation but tubes

774
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,900
versus solid state, when we're 
talking about amplifiers, Of 

775
00:44:00,900 --> 00:44:04,700
course, of course, it's huge. 
Huge huge. 

776
00:44:04,700 --> 00:44:09,600
I mean, with tubes, you get that
really, you get a warmer tone. 

777
00:44:09,700 --> 00:44:11,600
Okay. 
A my opinion, you know what, I 

778
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:16,700
made you get a round. 
It out lower mid, there's a 

779
00:44:16,700 --> 00:44:20,600
reason why when that technology 
was invented that people have 

780
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,300
been chasing that tube amp 
sense. 

781
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:25,600
You know what I mean? 
And that's been a standard. 

782
00:44:25,700 --> 00:44:28,100
Does that mean that there's not 
a place for solid-state? 

783
00:44:28,100 --> 00:44:32,000
No, no there for sure is and I 
made Especially like, if you're 

784
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,700
doing something that's colder 
sounding, or if you have some 

785
00:44:35,700 --> 00:44:38,900
kind of modeling, like I saw a 
band, right? 

786
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,900
A couple of years ago and they 
all had real high-end, a 

787
00:44:42,900 --> 00:44:46,000
modelers running through solid 
state amps. 

788
00:44:46,500 --> 00:44:48,400
And you can't tell the 
difference, you know what I 

789
00:44:48,408 --> 00:44:50,300
mean? 
Because the technology is there 

790
00:44:50,300 --> 00:44:53,800
now. 
So, that would be my answer for 

791
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:55,700
that. 
Like, what I record? 

792
00:44:55,700 --> 00:44:59,400
A solid-state. 
Sure contextually if the context

793
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:03,300
was right, you know what I mean?
But again, like I don't even I 

794
00:45:03,308 --> 00:45:05,700
don't even really go into the 
analog world anymore. 

795
00:45:06,300 --> 00:45:09,100
You know, as far as guitar goes 
because what's going on in 

796
00:45:09,100 --> 00:45:13,500
digital is is you know I can't 
remember if we talked about this

797
00:45:13,500 --> 00:45:17,600
last time or not, but like this 
idea of like the old analog guy 

798
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,100
is like having a mica cab and 
get that sounded blah, blah, 

799
00:45:20,100 --> 00:45:22,000
blah, blah. 
The sound that they were looking

800
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:26,100
for all along that they're 
eventually going to come to is 

801
00:45:26,100 --> 00:45:31,000
the one that My DIY now. 
So you know what I mean? 

802
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:35,700
Yeah, yeah. 
The fucking the default sounds 

803
00:45:35,700 --> 00:45:38,200
that come with. 
Like most of these plugins are 

804
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,000
what these analog guys were 
looking for all the time and if 

805
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,400
they could hear they would lose 
their mind, would you say these 

806
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,400
plugins are kind of like you 
just said, I think you just said

807
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:50,700
decision, that's the end result 
what we plug into when we plug 

808
00:45:50,700 --> 00:45:52,200
the guitar and are face. 
Pull up. 

809
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,600
Our favorite amp Sim and play 
through that Mesa sem or 

810
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,300
whatever it is 5150. 
That's the end result at the 

811
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,200
That we were looking for 
recording that tube amp, right? 

812
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:05,300
Just like if you were to zoom 
out enough than that's it, like 

813
00:46:05,300 --> 00:46:08,600
I all I care about is the record
and how does it sound, right? 

814
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:10,100
Right. 
You know what I mean? 

815
00:46:10,100 --> 00:46:13,500
Like if you can get a good sound
doing what you're doing, great. 

816
00:46:14,700 --> 00:46:17,600
If I can get a good say like at 
the end of the day, like if I 

817
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,400
record a record and I go through
this and, you know, I've talked 

818
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,700
to Ken about this a bunch. 
I think we even talked about it 

819
00:46:23,700 --> 00:46:28,400
last time we were talking about 
like analog versus in the Box. 

820
00:46:29,100 --> 00:46:31,600
Poor people are always talking 
about how good their five 

821
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:34,000
thousand dollar compressor Rose 
and I'm like, that's cool. 

822
00:46:34,500 --> 00:46:36,700
Yeah, it does. 
Anyone notice it on the record 

823
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,100
Or people like holy shit, man. 
That's incredible. 

824
00:46:40,100 --> 00:46:41,300
Like, how did you get that 
sound? 

825
00:46:41,300 --> 00:46:43,800
He's like can only get to sound 
with this compressor versus the 

826
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,400
guy that works in the Box. 
It hasn't you know and equally 

827
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,400
good sounding record. 
Look, nobody gives a fuck 

828
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:53,500
outside of us, right? 
It's just a cell gear, dude. 

829
00:46:53,500 --> 00:46:56,600
At the end of the day, like if 
it sounds good, it is good. 

830
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,800
So that means up another point, 
you know, and maybe this is for 

831
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,400
our, You guitar players, 
listening out there and it's 

832
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:04,400
hard for us to adapt new things 
and change. 

833
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,400
Sometimes I get that totally get
that I've had many flaws. 

834
00:47:07,500 --> 00:47:10,300
So in my thinking, over the 
years as a musician in other 

835
00:47:10,300 --> 00:47:14,200
areas too but you have to ask 
yourself at the end of day, am I

836
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:18,100
writing a record for just 
musicians and guitar player so 

837
00:47:18,100 --> 00:47:19,700
they can say, oh, what a great 
tone. 

838
00:47:19,700 --> 00:47:22,900
How did you get that tone? 
Or are you writing a record for 

839
00:47:22,900 --> 00:47:25,000
people that like that style of 
music? 

840
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,400
I think there's a little bit 
different mindset that goes on 

841
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:31,100
there. 
That's a whole Rabbit Hole of a 

842
00:47:31,100 --> 00:47:34,700
conversations and musicians 
playing the musicians, right? 

843
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,300
Yeah. 
Some great memes about that when

844
00:47:37,300 --> 00:47:40,400
I That's not a thing. 
We've been playing for other 

845
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,100
musicians, our whole lives but 
you know it's so funny. 

846
00:47:43,100 --> 00:47:45,500
When another musician walks in 
the room, the way you're playing

847
00:47:45,500 --> 00:47:48,800
changes. 
Oh man, you know, but I did that

848
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,000
we get over like like we were we
were talking about before the 

849
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:58,100
podcast Jay about get all 
expectations and you know 

850
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:02,300
managing before you even go into
the situation that you're going 

851
00:48:02,300 --> 00:48:05,700
into having a vanishing point, 
that's way way down. 

852
00:48:06,500 --> 00:48:09,500
You know, obviously in the 
distance of again, know, 

853
00:48:09,500 --> 00:48:11,400
thyself, what are you writing 
quote? 

854
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,000
What's the, what's the purpose? 
What's the purpose of this 

855
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:15,900
record be running? 
Is it music inside you? 

856
00:48:15,900 --> 00:48:19,100
That's just needs to come out. 
You've always wanted to write 

857
00:48:19,100 --> 00:48:23,900
like there's that's the best, 
you know, that's the shit if 

858
00:48:23,900 --> 00:48:26,700
you're writing it to go on the 
radio that's fine. 

859
00:48:26,700 --> 00:48:29,400
But you know what I mean, we 
have to have a conversation. 

860
00:48:30,700 --> 00:48:33,400
All right, you know what I mean?
Like all those things are 

861
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:34,600
really, really important to 
consider. 

862
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,600
I think everything with 
intention. 

863
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:38,900
Yes, I like that. 
Yes. 

864
00:48:38,900 --> 00:48:42,500
I like that. 
At least, you know, some 

865
00:48:42,500 --> 00:48:45,500
forethought into it whether or 
not it executes that way is 

866
00:48:45,500 --> 00:48:49,100
another story. 
But you know what I mean? 

867
00:48:50,700 --> 00:48:52,600
They get it. 
You might, you could have all 

868
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:54,900
the best intentions in the world
and have it turn out like dog 

869
00:48:54,900 --> 00:48:56,600
shit. 
And vice versa, you can go into 

870
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,900
it, totally blind. 
And come up with the most 

871
00:48:58,900 --> 00:49:04,100
amazing thing ever, but you 
know, Back to the conversation 

872
00:49:04,100 --> 00:49:08,700
of, you know, working with your 
engineer and other professionals

873
00:49:08,700 --> 00:49:10,300
rather than working against 
them. 

874
00:49:10,900 --> 00:49:13,800
You know, I always tell myself, 
I don't want to be my own 

875
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:18,100
weakest link. 
So we're in the studio and no 

876
00:49:18,100 --> 00:49:20,400
Nick were to say to me. 
Hey man, I'm going to, I would 

877
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:22,800
say hey you know what, Nick just
change the tone to whatever you 

878
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,600
think fits best. 
I'm just going to play the music

879
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,300
and I'm going to trust your 
judgment on that, you know, 

880
00:49:28,300 --> 00:49:30,700
unless it's something I just 
completely don't like but I 

881
00:49:30,707 --> 00:49:33,300
really can't imagine that being 
the case with You because you 

882
00:49:33,300 --> 00:49:36,900
makes Rock and metal music. 
So, you know, and I think 

883
00:49:36,900 --> 00:49:39,800
there's are not saying you have 
to take all of that, right? 

884
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,600
I mean, maybe there's something 
I might want to change but again

885
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:47,800
we're working with your sound 
engineer and a producer versus 

886
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,000
working, you know, against them.
I think that's important and 

887
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:52,600
important. 
Takeaway sure. 

888
00:49:52,700 --> 00:49:59,000
And and again, it's the same 
concept as ghetto getting that 

889
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:02,500
initial tone and and then 
leaving it alone. 

890
00:50:02,700 --> 00:50:05,200
Know what I mean? 
Like, I think and having the 

891
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,300
conversation of like, look, is 
this tone going to sound good in

892
00:50:07,300 --> 00:50:09,600
the mix? 
Like what are we, what are we 

893
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:12,400
searching for in the mix and 
like there's all different 

894
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:16,200
levels at that? 
But yeah, I that's one of the 

895
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,700
reasons that you try to find a 
producer whose like-minded. 

896
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,100
Like I made a few come into dual
metal record with me, any 

897
00:50:22,100 --> 00:50:23,800
genres, a metal like a 
guarantee. 

898
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:25,100
You it's not going to sound like
shit. 

899
00:50:25,100 --> 00:50:27,100
Same thing with the rock record 
and stuff like that, you know? 

900
00:50:27,100 --> 00:50:29,500
I mean if you describe your 
vision to me like we'll get it 

901
00:50:29,500 --> 00:50:33,100
done, but I'm all about healthy.
Back. 

902
00:50:33,300 --> 00:50:36,600
I'm not about nitpicking 
feedback. 

903
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,400
Yeah, the nonsense like to like 
shut the fuck up. 

904
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:42,300
You know what I mean? 
Like, if you want to talk about 

905
00:50:42,300 --> 00:50:46,200
the difference between like the 
sound of a marshal or an orange,

906
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:49,100
or a 5150, or a Randall, you 
know what I mean? 

907
00:50:49,100 --> 00:50:51,600
If you want to have those 
conversations and try a couple 

908
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:54,300
of those different amps, out 
contextually, I am all fucking 

909
00:50:54,300 --> 00:50:57,800
for that if we're going to 
endlessly tweak knobs for 5 

910
00:50:57,800 --> 00:50:59,600
hours like, no, we're not doing 
that. 

911
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,000
Yeah, Target our zone, five 
hours ago, man. 

912
00:51:02,700 --> 00:51:04,500
Fucking ruled and what are you 
doing? 

913
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:08,300
You know, yeah. 
Learn to trust the process 

914
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:14,100
because the whole point of a 
sound engineer in that situation

915
00:51:14,100 --> 00:51:17,300
is to try to make it fit into 
the bigger picture. 

916
00:51:17,300 --> 00:51:21,000
And, you know, sometimes you 
have to just learn to let go. 

917
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,600
And I mean, let's go, let's 
Circle it all the way back to 

918
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:28,600
the beginning of this this 
podcast and just know thyself. 

919
00:51:29,500 --> 00:51:32,500
You know what I mean? 
If you because, in everyone, 

920
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:34,800
Plays metal and every one of his
punk rock thinks that what 

921
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,300
they're doing is the most unique
thing and they have blinders on 

922
00:51:37,300 --> 00:51:39,600
and stuff like that and even get
to this just take a step back 

923
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:41,200
and go. 
Nah man, I'm just a metal band, 

924
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:43,800
you know, I mean we're just a 
metal band, we're just a punk 

925
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:45,400
band, we're just a rock band, 
you know what I mean? 

926
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:50,100
And if you do that, then you can
then understand that there's an 

927
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,400
entire Army of people that 
understand what you're trying to

928
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,800
do and are there to help you 
like the sound guy that guy. 

929
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,300
He's not an idiot, he's not 
going to fuck your shit up. 

930
00:52:00,500 --> 00:52:02,700
You know what I mean? 
Like with with some I'm 

931
00:52:02,700 --> 00:52:05,800
exceptions. 
I'm sure but like, that guy 

932
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,700
knows the room and if he's used 
to dial in a metal like let him 

933
00:52:08,700 --> 00:52:11,800
die in, I'll take care of you, 
you know, I mean, if you go to a

934
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:16,700
producer, who knows how to do 
these things like, Chris. 

935
00:52:16,700 --> 00:52:19,500
Mm. 
Yeah, and like you mentioned 

936
00:52:19,500 --> 00:52:22,000
what bands? 
Like you mentioned asking will 

937
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,400
what bands do you sound like? 
And I'm like, whoa no no we 

938
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:26,100
don't sound like anyone rear 
original. 

939
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:29,200
I think it's important to in 
your music. 

940
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:30,600
Sam be original because you 
wrote it. 

941
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:34,100
But I think it is important to 
say, well I'm I am kind of going

942
00:52:34,100 --> 00:52:38,200
for this Vibe here in here. 
Maybe a mixture of that, that 

943
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:40,300
even goes in, this is another 
conversation for another day, 

944
00:52:40,300 --> 00:52:41,700
but that even goes back to 
marketing. 

945
00:52:41,700 --> 00:52:43,200
Can you? 
And I were taught this in 

946
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:45,900
marketing that you know? 
Well what do you sound like 

947
00:52:45,900 --> 00:52:48,200
this? 
This is how you develop your 

948
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,400
audience my last record 
Masterpiece. 

949
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,100
I said, hey if you like him on a
Mars and you like Megadeth 

950
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,800
because those those are two 
different styles and that's kind

951
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:57,800
of what this record sounded 
like. 

952
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,700
Well those are the people that 
are probably going to like my 

953
00:53:00,700 --> 00:53:02,600
album, right? 
That's, that's kind of what I 

954
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:06,200
was what I was going for. 
So I think it's important maybe 

955
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:10,600
too kind of associate yourself 
with, you know, some bands that 

956
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:13,900
you're similar to because you 
want to get the Right audience 

957
00:53:13,900 --> 00:53:17,600
listening as well because it is 
certainly Not an insult to your 

958
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:18,900
creativity. 
Right? 

959
00:53:18,900 --> 00:53:24,100
It's just a way to make your 
sound clear, its communication? 

960
00:53:24,700 --> 00:53:26,700
Yeah. 
It's, it's a communicative 

961
00:53:26,700 --> 00:53:30,900
device. 
Like, if you're if you say, you 

962
00:53:30,900 --> 00:53:34,900
know what we're Heavy band and I
really like the vibe, the UK, 

963
00:53:34,900 --> 00:53:38,900
see strains putting out That's 
communicate you. 

964
00:53:38,900 --> 00:53:40,800
You've just communicated 
something huge to me. 

965
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,000
Like, I know that band, I love 
that band. 

966
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,900
Like I know what you're looking 
for a nautical after it, I know 

967
00:53:45,900 --> 00:53:48,700
what to do. 
If you come in to me and say, 

968
00:53:48,700 --> 00:53:51,200
you know, I'm a heavy band and 
we're just, I don't know, man. 

969
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:53,600
We're just kind of just kind of 
doing our own thing. 

970
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,400
Like I'm lost. 
You haven't communicated shit to

971
00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:58,700
me. 
You know what I mean? 

972
00:53:59,500 --> 00:54:06,700
I appreciate I'm an artist, I 
appreciate the need to be unique

973
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,300
for the want to be unique, but I
mean, again, zoom out. 

974
00:54:10,300 --> 00:54:12,200
Like, do you have Verse Chorus 
Verse going on? 

975
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:15,700
Because you're not, that's not 
unique, answer, pop, music 

976
00:54:15,700 --> 00:54:18,400
minutes is pop music and there's
nothing wrong with fucking pop 

977
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:19,900
music. 
I love pop music. 

978
00:54:19,900 --> 00:54:24,100
Yeah, but know what it is. 
The for Magical chords, right? 

979
00:54:24,100 --> 00:54:27,700
You know in one other thing to 
guys you guys listening, if 

980
00:54:27,700 --> 00:54:30,100
you're not sure what you sound 
like and you really like, you 

981
00:54:30,100 --> 00:54:33,300
know, I really don't know. 
Know if you have a following any

982
00:54:33,300 --> 00:54:37,900
type of following on social 
media or wherever you know, post

983
00:54:37,900 --> 00:54:41,400
a clip a short clip of one of 
your songs out there and ask 

984
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,700
your audience, they will tell 
you your audience loves to be a 

985
00:54:44,700 --> 00:54:47,000
part of that process. 
Can I this is something you and 

986
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,700
I learned as well put a song out
there. 

987
00:54:49,700 --> 00:54:52,400
Put just a short clip out there 
something that you put together 

988
00:54:52,700 --> 00:54:54,600
and just ask them. 
Hey, can you guys name? 

989
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:56,800
Three bands? 
This reminds you of and they 

990
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,300
will tell you and that's 
something you can take back to 

991
00:54:59,300 --> 00:55:00,900
your produced through your 
recording engineer. 

992
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:05,400
And just get a better, you need 
more clarity on what you're 

993
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,400
trying to do. 
And, you know, every once in a 

994
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,900
while, something rolls around, 
that's really, really hard to 

995
00:55:11,900 --> 00:55:15,700
define, or put into a box, you 
know, a new genre gets created 

996
00:55:15,700 --> 00:55:19,300
or like a really new sounding 
sound, like I said, The Acacia 

997
00:55:19,300 --> 00:55:22,100
Strain like in the early days of
Deathcore. 

998
00:55:22,100 --> 00:55:26,600
Like you know that was a kind of
a new sound like that's that's 

999
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:30,400
really hard to explain and if 
that's the case that's fine like

1000
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:33,400
if you're if you don't have a 
band to explain it like if 

1001
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:37,500
there's like Spirit Box Like who
the fuck sounds like Spirit Box?

1002
00:55:37,500 --> 00:55:38,800
You know what I mean? 
Like you're going to be going to

1003
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:42,600
go into the studio and be like, 
you know, oh yeah, we want to 

1004
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:43,900
sound like ex white. 
Like no dude. 

1005
00:55:43,900 --> 00:55:47,000
That's a brand new sound. 
Like that's brand-new, like, I 

1006
00:55:47,008 --> 00:55:51,900
didn't sound like anything. 
That's mental, you know, like 

1007
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:54,100
that's okay. 
But be aware. 

1008
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,700
And if you are in a situation 
where you're doing something 

1009
00:55:57,700 --> 00:56:00,700
really avant-garde and unique 
click, that's what the fuck is 

1010
00:56:00,700 --> 00:56:02,600
up. 
Like that's, that's the Apex, 

1011
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:06,800
that's the cream of the crop. 
But if you're not, that's okay 

1012
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:08,200
too. 
If you're just a guy that likes 

1013
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:13,100
to play metal, that's fine. 
You know like I know what my 

1014
00:56:13,100 --> 00:56:16,800
band sounds like and it makes me
really happy to play the music 

1015
00:56:17,300 --> 00:56:19,200
and I think it's Unique sounding
or whatever. 

1016
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:20,700
Does that mean? 
I can't give you a couple 

1017
00:56:20,700 --> 00:56:22,300
references of what I want it to 
sound. 

1018
00:56:22,300 --> 00:56:24,700
Like no sir, I have all the 
references. 

1019
00:56:25,100 --> 00:56:27,400
If I was gonna send it out to a 
mixer right now, fucking forget 

1020
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:31,900
about it, but a list of mixer, a
list of references. you know, I 

1021
00:56:31,900 --> 00:56:35,500
mean, yeah. 
And on that note, let's take it 

1022
00:56:35,500 --> 00:56:39,400
away because this is all about 
what we're trying to put out 

1023
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:43,100
there, right about creating your
own sound and knowing yourself 

1024
00:56:43,100 --> 00:56:46,400
is a big part of that, right? 
Jason, this is a huge part of 

1025
00:56:46,408 --> 00:56:49,200
that you know, I want you guys 
listening to focus on creating 

1026
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:51,400
your own sound, you focus on 
being original. 

1027
00:56:52,100 --> 00:56:55,100
In other words, you know, don't 
necessarily go into it, trying 

1028
00:56:55,100 --> 00:56:58,000
to sound like another band. 
That's not the goal but 

1029
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:02,700
understand it your influences 
you've had over the years, you 

1030
00:57:02,700 --> 00:57:04,400
will naturally. 
Really come out of them. 

1031
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:08,400
You know, it's natural for my 
wrist to kind of mimic not as a 

1032
00:57:08,408 --> 00:57:10,700
really sound like, but be 
similar to what you would hear 

1033
00:57:10,700 --> 00:57:13,100
from the older Metallica 
Megadeth stuff like that. 

1034
00:57:13,100 --> 00:57:14,200
I love bands, like I'm on a 
Martha. 

1035
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:18,700
I love Nightwish, you know, 
there's a hint of that in some 

1036
00:57:18,700 --> 00:57:21,400
songs bands, like Evergreen, you
know, there. 

1037
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:24,600
Another finished band, like, 
you'd left the European metal. 

1038
00:57:24,900 --> 00:57:28,500
They just had this just 
different vibe but you know, go 

1039
00:57:28,500 --> 00:57:29,900
into it. 
Yeah, you're going to write your

1040
00:57:29,900 --> 00:57:32,100
original music, it's going to be
original because you wrote it 

1041
00:57:32,100 --> 00:57:34,300
right? 
But Next Point, you're still 

1042
00:57:34,300 --> 00:57:36,100
going to have a version of 
course and so forth. 

1043
00:57:36,100 --> 00:57:37,400
Right? 
You're going to have those 

1044
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:39,400
elements in there. 
There's nothing wrong with that 

1045
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,200
and there's nothing wrong. 
I'm about being able to give 

1046
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:45,000
references to what you sound 
like. 

1047
00:57:45,100 --> 00:57:47,300
That's okay. 
That's actually a good thing. 

1048
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:50,300
That means you have an audience 
because at the end of the day, 

1049
00:57:50,700 --> 00:57:53,900
you can make all the records you
want and spend hours, tweaking 

1050
00:57:53,900 --> 00:57:58,900
Tom, but if no one's listening 
to your music, well it goes back

1051
00:57:58,900 --> 00:58:01,300
to that conversation. 
Nick about you talking about. 

1052
00:58:01,300 --> 00:58:02,900
Are you making this just to 
have? 

1053
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:05,000
Nothing out there. 
So yeah, I did it for my 

1054
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,300
friends. 
My five friends listen to, or do

1055
00:58:07,300 --> 00:58:09,800
you want to create something 
that's going to have some sort 

1056
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:14,300
of movement, in the market so 
well, and, and I think it's a 

1057
00:58:14,308 --> 00:58:17,200
really important thing to say. 
And I maybe should have said 

1058
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:19,700
this before we even started. 
But I mean, being this harsh 

1059
00:58:19,700 --> 00:58:27,600
about guitars being this, get 
this, this super dickish about 

1060
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:32,000
guitars. 
Is about trying to maximize 

1061
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:33,900
creativity. 
Not minimize it. 

1062
00:58:34,300 --> 00:58:37,700
It's not about shutting people 
down, it's about focusing on 

1063
00:58:37,700 --> 00:58:42,400
what matters and does guitar 
tone matter. 

1064
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:44,900
Yes. 
But it only matters to a point. 

1065
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:46,700
That's that's the point that I'm
trying to make. 

1066
00:58:46,700 --> 00:58:48,500
And I mean I don't want anyone 
to think like what the fuck is 

1067
00:58:48,500 --> 00:58:51,400
this guy talking about? 
Like he told me not to be 

1068
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:53,900
creative. 
No, be creative, but be 

1069
00:58:53,900 --> 00:58:55,400
creative. 
Where it matters? 

1070
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:58,300
You know, don't let your tone 
hinder, you don't let the hours 

1071
00:58:58,300 --> 00:59:00,400
of tweaking his? 
Under you from being creative so

1072
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,100
that don't let it restricted you
decide to write that man until 

1073
00:59:03,100 --> 00:59:05,100
the right. 
How many guitars do I know that 

1074
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:10,100
waste hours and hours and hours 
of their life trying to fucking 

1075
00:59:10,100 --> 00:59:15,500
dial in distorted guitar and I'm
like, bro you have three knobs 

1076
00:59:15,500 --> 00:59:18,800
on that amp. 
You fucking kidding me thought 

1077
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:22,200
within a let's go like you you 
know what I mean? 

1078
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:24,400
Like, endlessly tweaking 
frequencies has. 

1079
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:26,200
Come on, man. 
Well of it, dude. 

1080
00:59:26,700 --> 00:59:30,400
Nick, it has been a pleasure. 
Pleasure having you on man? 

1081
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:32,600
I love the wisdom that you're 
sharing with this dude. 

1082
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,400
And all of you folks listening 
right now. 

1083
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:37,700
I know that you got some 
valuable gold nuggets. 

1084
00:59:37,700 --> 00:59:41,200
They go back and listen to this 
again and I encourage you guys 

1085
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:44,200
break out a notepad, get an 
old-school notepad or you take 

1086
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:46,700
some notes, man. 
A lot of things will just Lodge 

1087
00:59:46,700 --> 00:59:49,600
in your head and, and you'll 
retain it a lot better because 

1088
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:52,200
Nick brought up some extremely 
valid points. 

1089
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:56,100
I think will help you guys, guys
want, thank you once again for 

1090
00:59:56,100 --> 00:59:58,200
listening, Nick. 
Thank you again for being on 

1091
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:01,100
here, man, priest. 
Brother pleasure service, real 

1092
01:00:01,100 --> 01:00:02,900
quick plug guys. 
Free in the show. 

1093
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:07,800
Go over to metal Mastermind.com.
Nick actually has a complete 

1094
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:10,500
course. 
We just made a major upgrade to 

1095
01:00:10,500 --> 01:00:13,700
that course there's four 
completely different mixing 

1096
01:00:13,700 --> 01:00:16,200
scenarios, it's called metal 
producer Overlord, the mixing 

1097
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:18,300
Series. 
So look for that on metal 

1098
01:00:18,300 --> 01:00:21,300
Mastermind.com guys. 
Grab a copy of that. 

1099
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:23,800
That's going to help you 
tremendously. 

1100
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:26,500
Give you a lot of value there. 
So guys, thank you once again 

1101
01:00:26,500 --> 01:00:29,400
for listening. 
As always create your Your own 

1102
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:29,900
sound.