Welcome to another episode of metal, masterminding metal
Mastermind podcast, your host, Jason Stallworth, get co-owner
of metal, Mastermind on here, brother, Can-Can, Dallas.
And we have a special guest today.
Nick Z. And guys, we're gonna talk about
guitar, snobbery or guitar? Tone snobbery.
Oh Boy. Yeah, did I can I make a
suggestion of the podcast? Can I suggest a rating then?
Instead, it's free. And even can we mix raining in
with Raining Blood and it's raining.
Bloody men. The, Yes Men, it's raining.
Bloody Mary, is that got dark real quick and really get dark,
dude. Yeah, so look at the left.
Turn, guys, what's up into the podcast?
Jesus, we have to lighten the load a little bit next year.
Too early was about to get really heavy, no pun intended.
Well I'm all in the blood right now.
It's warm in mice piece. You can can skins background.
He's got this reddish, like in Hades background.
Print, you know, mall. We need of into it.
But then you have the flower door to the just kind of offsets
the whole thing. Yeah, right.
I know. You know, you're like fun fact,
actually flowers. Fun fact, actually I Lizabeth
actually painted that door. She's an artist herself who yeah
this is. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
So let's talk about, let's talk about this.
Yes. And we will what, what about
guitar snobbery? What makes somebody a snob on
guitar owwww? I don't play anything other than
analog. JP, bleed nipple have you?
That's it. Interesting that you're using an
E, minor diminished chord there to me.
I would have used the F7 blend. That's a snobby ponytail Theory,
guy, you know? Yeah, I mean, there's so much in
guitar that we have freedom to express ourselves with, right.
So I think, at what point Do we get to a point where it's just a
little bit too much for what needs to happen?
I think sometimes as musicians we overthink a lot of things and
when we're getting to something like guitar tone, this is
definitely one of those out of many different things that we
can be over thinking about, but how much then Jason maybe this
is a perfect question for you is like how much does a guitarist
need to really focus? Focus on the perfect tone.
That's a very good question. I mean, from my perspective, I
don't want to say, don't worry about tone so much, but I kind
of don't there's there's there's like a kind of a static EQ
setting. I use on my amps and amp sounds
and it seems to be the same across the board.
No matter what I'm using, this just what I like to me.
If I can't use an amp Sim or a and quickly dial in what I like
to hear, I'm not going to use that.
Fortunately, there are plenty of amplifiers naive.
Eh for one the el34 to version the amp Sims.
I love positive grids bias FX. I use their trip there.
Triple tread plate. I believe they're maysa em along
with their Celestial speakers. There's several others Nick, I
know you use neural dsb on some but I'm not really like I said,
if I can't use my typical settings and here something I
like I'm on to the next. Fortunately, I've really don't
come across that problem. My quick tip for guitar players,
as I record to Rhythm tracks, hardpan them each the second
guitar. Sometimes does something a
little different so that way you've got, you know, you've got
a really a nice mix in there. Nice blend and what I love about
and we're kind of getting off tone.
What will get back on that? What I love about recording to
guitar tracks in hard panting? Them is that second guitar and
no you don't copy the guitar over because that does nothing.
But raise volume, you record that second guitar track.
You're not going to be perfect, but it's not going to perfectly
match. Actual trial of imperfections.
Those little nuances will be captured to me my opinion.
That makes the music a little bit more lively.
You don't want to be like, completely off.
Obviously, you got to re-record it at that point, but you're
going to have those slight nuances and in my lead tracks up
the middle, anything clean, your ambient, something middle.
So I guess I don't focus on tone and as much because I kind of
know what I like already. So I just dialed it in and go
with it, okay? So I have a follow-up question
to that because I think a lot of guitarists identify Their
personality, you know, or their Persona with guitar tone, right?
So its just oh, you know, this is my sound right?
That's kind of like what a lot of people say.
And, and Nick, I want to ask you this when somebody comes to, you
know, even a session where even a live show or whatever it might
be. How much do we have to deviate
from the concept of? Oh, this is like your tone
versus this. Is what the song needs.
Oh God! Drop the hammer on that one.
You know make it painful. Hold on.
Cuz here comes the hate mail. I deal with this almost every
session. Almost every session.
I do it with us. Like I, you know, talked about
last time I was here we you know talks about people wanting to go
analog versus want to go d-ii and doing Sims and stuff like
that. And I have to have the hard
conversations with people about expectations about like what,
you know, what you're used to listening to what you think is
important. What's what's, you know, mixing
wise like what's in the front? What do you actually hearing
sometimes? You know all Azkaban.
I'll be like art. What's your favorite song?
And then I'll play it for him and I'll show them the guitar
player in specific. I'll show them how pushback is
guitar is really do. You can you hear how far behind
the vocals that is? And he goes, you know, but it's
still there. I'm like, I know it's there but
it's really you here. All far behind the drums and the
vocals it is like you here priority wise, like howdy
prioritize. It is and it gets all butthurt
about it and I'm like, dude, it's really important.
It's really really important to have that guitar sound that
saturated sound, but Like in the grand scheme of things, it's a
layer instrument, you know. It's a it's a It takes up space.
Oh, a lot of space. It's like a full bandwidth type
of instrument. Well, when you're dealing with
distorted guitars. Yeah.
It's like it's, it's such a hard conversation to have, but people
do get so fucking attached to their tone and like, I don't
know. Like I I appreciate that I
really do but there's also the the huge conversation which is
what is it that you're trying to do.
And can we get realistic about what it is that you're trying to
do? Like, first of all, you're
playing the guitar. Second of all, you're playing it
through an amp third of all, you're playing Distortion,
fourth of all. You have drums, bass, guitars
vocals, maybe keys. If you're lucky, I'll get it key
or whatever. But, this idea that like like,
you have to embrace that, you are in a metal band or a rock
band or whatever. Everyone wants to think that
they're breaking the mold, that they're so outside of me.
Don't sound like that, man. It's like so many bands that are
here and I'm like, you know, what do you guys sound like in
there? Like, man, we don't like the
labor or label ourselves like get anything, you know.
I feel like we, you know, we we sell, you know, we have a little
bit of like tool influence, but you know then we you know, real
heavy, you know, like Meshuggah in the blubber and they start
name it off these bands and you listen to him and I'm like, okay
so you guys sound like you know, every other band from 12, 2009.
He could have just said that, you know what I mean?
It's like, it's hard to get objectivity.
It's really, really difficult. And I think it's, you know, it's
like the old adage like, know, thyself, know, thyself.
Like, if you can detach yourself and know what kind of band you
are, you're going to save yourself so much time.
This if you just go. Hey listen man, we're fucking
metal band. We want to be heavy, we want to
sound good. Like if you like and like we
talked about last time like Micro micro like if you're
focusing micro like done on, man, we got to be different.
We got to be this thing but it did it on if you pull it way
out, like why can't we just be a good metal band?
The people enjoy listening to know what I mean.
Do we have to be so different because it don't get me started
on it because I'll fucking bro if you have all of those things
you're not different. If you have a guitar in your
band, you're not different, you know what I mean?
If you have drums in your band, you're not different.
If you have a set of Wind chimes that you beat another human
being with and you Mike that and and Mike the sound of the
thumping and the screams and run it through a delay pedal.
Like all right, that's different.
You're going to get a different sound.
You know what I mean? Let's talk about something
really different. This is a real hard, that's why
I'm coming up with something that's unique but if you're
doing the things that I've described, it's not you.
Unique. It's just something that we like
to do and there's nothing wrong with that.
There's nothing wrong with that, you know.
It's like if you like it it's a something in sports like
basketball or something like that.
Like what Jordan did was not unique.
He just did it very well but it was still basketball.
You know what I mean? Like you still playing
basketball so like it's okay to be in a metal band and to do
that in to that end the whole reason I said that is to get to
this point. If that's true concede that
you're going to have a guitar tone, it's heavy and it's going
to sound good and then drop it. Drop the dude lately.
I've been on these these fucking Ginsburg and put out the one not
pack for the 5150. S, nice!
You seeing that one notch Cena it.
I'm looking it up after this Beth to this podcast, though.
Well, knob I played one Riff on it and bought it like that.
Well, it's, it's one fucking knob.
It's there's no tweaking. There's no endless bullshit.
You just as a gain knob, you want your game to turn it up it
in the mix. Like so I'm a 5150 guy.
That's what I Play, I'd like 5150 incident to selections.
Excuse me, that's my rig. And when I play it, you know in
the live room and you know record it and then when I come
in here and play it there's very very little difference that I
could tell in the mix. I can't tell at all and that's
good enough for me. Like that's that's great.
Like my guitar tone is there? It sounds good, it's heavy.
Wow, we don't need to endlessly, pick over this minutiae.
It's a waste of time. It's a waste of energy and most
of all you're fooling yourself. Like if it's something that you
like to do like design new guitar tones and stuff like
that. Like that's cool.
But like and if you're if you're tweaking guitar sounds to try to
find things that are cool or unique or different, that's also
cool. But if you're just trying to
find into the ideal distorted tone, But I have a, I have a, I
have another question. How about effects?
Because I know a lot of guitarists, also, lets, okay
Rhythm guitars are pretty straightforward in this sense
when it comes to Distortion, but you know, a lot of guitars also
their lead players, they want to have like a spotlight moment,
you know, in their song. And they want to add and
embellish with different kinds of effects.
What how far is too many effects and what how much is made?
Maybe not enough of facts, or should they keep it as no
effects and then leave it to post to make it happen?
That's, that's interesting. So There's two different schools
of thinking on that the first one for me, at least.
And I'm sure JS something to say about this as well is if that
riff is already written, it has effects that are doing something
to the Riff. Like if you're playing off the
delete the delay, if you have a running into delaying chorus and
Reverb and stuff, we got like and that riff affects the way,
if it affects the way that you play by having that, Effect on
print it because I want to hear your hands moving that affects
around. You know what I mean.
You've changed the overall sound of the guitar when we start
talking about leads and effects and stuff like that, we're
basically talking about everything that I just said
about Rhythm guitars. Is the polar opposite of
experiment until your nuts fall off.
You know, if you have the time to sit there and experiment with
effects and different things and you know, all of the cool
effects that are out. Now like do that until you turn
blue in the face like that, that's where I'm at.
So I've done it with guys that you know obviously if it's a
more straightforward project or if the guitarist you know
already has like pre effects that he wants like stuff already
died. Then they got definitely use
that but they've done it the other way to where we've denied
it and built built stuff backwards as it were and it
seemed to make more sense. I've done that actually, I just
finished a shoegaze record and I did a shoegaze record before
that or we did it both the same way where we just basically D.
I'd kind of a rhythm tone in the web back in it and started
tweaking and finding sounds that were incredible, you know?
Because I mean now I prefer to do that because like sitting
there and having to like play a riff and then, you know, tweak
it or whatever like for me like all recorder if and then tweak
it on a loop. You know what I mean?
Just so I have both my hands and my full attention on have to sit
there and play the thing, you know, make sense.
Yeah. Yeah.
And Jay so Jay, I know you, you strongly have a lot of opinions
on melodic versus shredding solos.
Where do you feel like effects play?
Into all of that and when is it an appropriate time to use
effects as a guitar player? I'm kind of a minimalist when it
comes to the fix, like my metal rhythms Rock rhythms.
I feel like if you use too many effects and this probably isn't
the case for everyone, this is just me, the things kind of get
lost. It can get muddy.
So I want because I do play a lot of riffs.
I want the clarity to be there above everything else.
I feel like too much effects will kind of money that up.
So, I might use a hint of Reverb.
Now this last album, I recorded. With my EV a champ.
I'm very happy with the tone. I know, I could probably pass it
on to Nick and he would make it sound even better.
And actually I need to send those to.
You will make a video out of that Nick to see if is this a
workable tone? You might say, no, dude, this
isn't workable to home. Well, I'll take mix of butter,
spin that shit. Now, let's Circle right back to
that. But finish we will, we will we
absolutely will talk about that real quick.
And but as far as Rhythm goes, I don't really record with a lot
of effects if I'm recording with a Sims.
Same thing, I might use a touch of Reverb on those just because
I like I like I don't know does something to it for me, although
you probably can't really tell when you listen to the overall
mix. But to next point about the
performance, if playing with a certain effects, going to help
you perform a little bit better, go with it.
The thing about plugins is I can turn the Reverb off after the
fact you know leads real quick. I only like to add a little bit
more mids. I might move the mic closer to
the cone of the speaker so that it can cut through the mix, you
know? If you've got the same exact
tone, as a rhythm sometimes, you know, the lead knows can get
lost if you're playing lower lead notes and the other thing I
do like delay on my leads but you Nick, you know, we're
talking earlier, you know, pre or post, you know, recording
within a lot of times I'll put the delay plug-in on the track.
So I can hear it in my headphones because that when I'm
playing guitar solos that delay does impact the way I play.
So I like to hear and of course plugins I've got the delay on
and oftentimes, I'll leave it on ice.
I've toyed around with the idea of like, recording with a delay
pedal and just you know what, okay, I know it's printed
already unless I were to use the DIY of course.
But if I just recorded the am, I know it's there and I'll just
have to be happy with that or do it over again, you know, I'm
always. Okay, doing things open.
So but anyway. Yeah, let's listen to you.
You said, put a pin in the one part.
We're talking about the Rhythm guitars.
Yeah. So as far as fitting your guitar
into the mix, it was so it's interesting too because I just
had this conversation. With my band.
The band I'm in now which is an old man band little bit there
isn't work. This you know listen I love it.
I'm going to I want to be in bands until my can't play
anymore. You know what I mean?
Like I enjoy playing music It's my life.
So nothing like it have a little band and we've been writing and
stuff like that. And my other guitar players are
real guitar had guy. You know like we were talking
last time like he came up on Metallica and he he writes one
guitar part. I write I write for two guitars,
he writes for one guitar so he's very nobody in very shreddy and
like there's not a lot of room in what he does.
I right one guitar does one thing won't be tired as the
other thing. But anyway We were we were
jamming this past weekend and we were talking about tone and he's
like I don't know man your tones as fucking it sounds so dark and
led me to believe you're black and I'm like right on I'm like
what do you get know like what are you missing in it?
So I went over to the presence knob on the 5150 and turned it
up and I'm like is it this? And he's like yeah he's like
there it is, that's the total and that's that's what the fuck
I've been missing, that's what's up and I'm like okay I would
immediately cut that. Out of the reason that's not in
the mix, now is because that presence region that 3 to 4 K.
Is this? Like, you know, the that gets
cut pretty quickly and mixing, you know what I mean?
Like, I don't, I don't like that in my mixes.
That's where the vocals go. So super important Point dude.
Man suit, you know what I mean? Like I like I like mids in my
guitar like they don't sound. It doesn't sound you know
fantastic. When you're just sitting there
playing it by yourself but in a mix it sounds incredible.
And I'm a big-picture guy. So he had me turn up the
presents and I turned up the presents and blah blah blah and
I'm sure it sounds good and I'm sure the next time that we play
it's going to sound like a hot mess.
But listen, if he's happy then I'm happy like whatever.
But when it comes to that, To that point J of what you're
talking about like like it only matters in the context of the
mix. So like I would move your shit
around so that it retains as much of the signal is as humanly
possible. With letting the other stuff be
in the place that it's supposed to be in.
And it, you know, I there's a guy that I follow.
Who's pretty famous? Who was this this famous line
that if everything is loud. Nothing is loud.
Hmm. Good point and something.
That's that's a huge thing. Like everyone should have
everyone. That makes the should have that
on a sign in their studio in big bold letters because it's super
super important. And I mean when you You start
getting into that kind of thing. It's more about like what is
this frequency? Sound like, I want to talk a
little more about that, man about the frequencies.
Like I you you mentioned how this is where the vocals sit?
Well I don't want my presence you know sitting in that Arena
from the guitar, right. Same thing with base would you
say maybe you don't need as much bass in your tart tongue because
that starting to get into the bass guitar frequencies.
Maybe the cake like can we talk a little bit more just about
frequencies when it comes to dialing in the car?
I made it to pants like it depends on how much your base is
doing what your base is doing and I think a lot of people get
into bands and they you know, have one guitar player bass
player or two guitar players in a bass player and especially in
stuff where there's drop two innings.
Again like it's important to Know Your Role.
It's important to know. Like like if you zoom out and go
are I what am I really doing here?
Yeah, you know and if your bass player is just taking up get a
little bit of clanking sub information, like that's totally
fine and not only not only is that not a wasted Endeavor, it's
a very important piece of the band to have, but if you're
playing them like, you know, drop a there, drop b or ghetto,
like be standard. If you're playing like a
baritone, Tuning or extended tuning or even like, I mean,
let's not even get into like like eight string.
Tuning is like, f, you don't even need to have a base like
periphery has three 8-string guitars.
Now, they don't have a bass player.
Yeah. Really.
I don't know. Also animals is leaders, I think
to they're just Animals As Leaders is never on a bass
player. Yeah, they're just okay, guys,
I'm behind the times 8-string guitars, man.
Well, I mean, that's that's a whole different conversation
like pumping and stuff like that.
Teachers thumping and it's a it's a classical technique.
It's unbelievable. But anyway, it's important to
know, you know what I mean? It's important to know where
your stuff is sitting. I guess it's really not that
important to the Layman to the late musician or whatever.
But if your production minded, you might want to think about
these things, right? I don't like if you start going
okay, I was just going to say, it can really help in a live
show. Setting enjoy having that
awareness because now you're just How many live shows?
Do we go to right? And the sound sucks, right?
And it's like, part of that can be.
Also something that can be contributed by the musician to
make it easier. Because sometimes, you know, you
get to a venue, let's say they don't have a lot, but they have
maybe just like am a keyboard and a Mac, you can do something,
but it's not like it's powerful as a digital board where they
can do surgical moves. And on top of that, you have
like limited time to do, things like that.
So if you are come in with a little bit more of a okay, let
me make this a little A bit easier for a mixer to make my
live show sound better now, you're getting off to a better
head start, right? You're already cutting down some
time on what it takes to get your mix in the live room to
sound great. So I just want to thank you
learn to make sure yourself. Yeah.
If you can learn to mix yourself in the room.
Holy shit and Stage volume. Like I miss it another huge
conversation week and I'd love to talk also about that because
there's there's always been an argument about oh, you know,
well we need to have the guitar cabinet super loud because
that's how we get all this saturation tone, which, you
know, definitely is a thing, you know, Drive expression from from
the woofer itself. But that you all you have to do
is get the The tone loud enough to drive the speaker, anything
beyond that is nonsense? Wow.
Okay. So tell me more about that.
Yeah, let's talk about that man. Yeah, because if you want Peak
guitar tone, if you want to know where your guitar tone hits, the
Apex, it's when it starts driving the speaker just loud
enough to drive the speaker and you're done after that.
All you're hearing is like it's the same concept of like when
you're mixing. And you make something louder.
Does it sound better? You know what I mean?
Like if you have mix a and it's a one-volume and mixed be is a
louder volume. He say all right, which one
sounds better to the lame ending.
You play the louder one, they're going to go that one because
it's louder. You know what I mean?
Or if it has a more trouble in it, it's the same exact thing.
Like it's you're fooling yourself by increasing perceived
volume when you turn up the amplitude, that's what happens.
So you have to do is go to drive the speaker.
The speaker is Moving without woofer is moving.
Like you said. Yeah, my caught more, my thought
process on this is coming a little bit more from let's say
microphones because at a certain point microphones will distort
and there's actually four for the amount of flex that a
microphone can do. There's also like a limit to how
accurate that representation ends up being inside the Which I
think they call intermodulation Distortion.
So, I'm wondering if it's the same thing with when it comes to
like a speaker. So, we have that, let's say it's
pushing too much, right? Does it start acting more like,
it's being Ultra Limited in that case, and it's not even a good
tone to even try and go for because now you're that that's
more of a gain thing. That a volume thing like, You
know, once you have your gay and dialed in, like once you have
your tone dial, then, whatever like turning it up.
The point, I'm making, is it turning it up past a certain
point? Is it going to do anything to
your tone? Yeah.
Now, if you're playing the VFW, And they have a very small PA
turn your amps up. You know what I mean?
If you're playing some venue that that's get a thousand, you
know, 5,000 seat venue or whatever, turn your amp down, We
have to know, like what the pa is doing.
Like what? The job of the PA is.
The job of the PA is to throw your, you know what I mean?
Like, the front of house is gonna mix that and bring that to
the the audience. Like, that's not the job of your
amp, like, your stage volume, and all of that will come
through your monitor. A lot of people don't know that
especially people that are used to playing smaller venues, when
they go to play big thing, it was early.
What is this bullshit? And it's like, no, dude, you
don't need your hands to be that loud.
It ruins the mix. Right?
And that's a difference Age. We that's the difference.
We call, I think back line reinforcement to actual full on
sound reinforcement, right? So when you're in a smaller
venue, right? It's easier for your, you know,
equipment to kind of take a little bit more of its own.
I, you know, place in sound and just having the system just kind
of back that up a little bit versus.
Now you have full on know, we're using the system as the primary
Sound Source here. So, Yeah, that's a good point.
I did a show Once where I was, I was doing a band downstairs and
a band upstairs and the room downstairs was really small and
really shitty, it was, it was kind of like a tunnel, you
don't? I mean, it's like an old
hardcore venue and I had the PA there, I had the kick and snare.
From the drums and the vocals going through the pa.
The rest of my was I told the guys in the band was like, turn
your ramps up until I tell you not to they did.
Sounded amazing upstairs was a full probably 1500 person venue
the digital board. Literally the exact opposite,
literally the exact opposite and I was running up and down the
stairs, all night doing this board, and this board or
whatever. But I mean, yeah, knowing that
stuff. ask someone that that's creative and whatever in and,
you know, having that it, as part of your skill set, it just
puts you so far ahead of the Curve, You know?
It's my and again my their guitar player I'm in a band with
this guy now. And he's like, he has this, this
board this line 6 or whatever that, you know, healings doing
digital. He what's that the Helix right?
The land sakes Helix he's playing well, I don't know, I
don't know what it is. He's, it's, it's something where
he can like dial in the stage on his iPad, like, you know, he
can, he can dial it all in and then send it to the sound guy.
They just have the sound guy, turn it up, and I'm like, bro,
the sound guy has a job to do. Because he knows that room.
Like, why are you doing his job for him?
Look what like I'm like, are you out of your mind?
You're going to, you're going to mix our band and then just leave
it statically and make no adjustments as we're playing
like Yeah, I can't think of a worse idea.
How much let the sound guy. Be the salaries we were going to
go to shitty song? I'm like, no, you're not.
Not if you have like a good solid tone and uuo in there,
knowing what you have to do, like, they'll dial the room and
you know what I mean? It's easy peasy.
Yeah, the moral of the story here is, is as a guitar player,
and I know that's guitar players we can be as little snobby
sometimes with the tone, but it's a good idea to just, listen
and trust and work with your sound engineer.
Not against the sound engineer. Always, always, it's so hard.
I remember when I was a kid and the Egos and Just the way I was
when I was young versus the way, I am now knowing what I know.
Now, you know, again, if I had known, then what I know now and
just like disrespecting their gear and just shitting all over
their opinions like they would somebody would try to tell me
something I'm like you can't tell me shit the fuck out of my
face you know, looking back to it now I'm just like ah what a
fucking idiot piece of shit. I was a punk rock about it.
You just ruined your sound. So great job, Tech.
That's you know what I mean is important.
But I mean personally I'd rather focus more first.
We're talking about recording, going back to the studio, my
core focus is more on the song itself and it's this song
resonating with me, is it you know, in my bringing something
out that's within me, you know? And that's important to me.
So definitely like vocals and lyrics are probably more
important than anything than the guitar.
You know tone and playing live. Well, I'd rather be playing, you
know, I don't want to. I feel like we're bashing the
shit out of guitar players right now and I don't want to pretend.
It wasn't what you say a little bit you know it's okay.
Now this is the thing is that like guitar players are super
super super fucking important and I mean obviously it's the
most talked-about thing-- for a reason.
Sure it's not to say that what you're doing is an important or
that tone isn't Horton. It's just, it's only important
up to a point to a certain point.
Write to me, at least, you know what I mean?
Like, I'm not going to sit here and pretend like tone isn't
King. Like tone is King.
Dude, we gotta the better your tone, you know?
But there's a fucking, there's a, there's a cut-off to that is
the point. I'm trying to make like, get
your tone good and then, all right, good.
You know what I mean? Like, let's keep it moving like
that, that One DB of trouble that you add.
It is. Not, you know, and in a studio
setting it's totally moot but live, it's almost just as movie,
you know what I mean? Like, yeah.
Now also, analyze, don't overanalyze, don't overthink
your tone, get it to a good point.
And okay, let's go with that. My final question to both of you
as you are both guitars, right? I want to know at what point in
your career. Did you disassociate from being
too focused on? On something like that to seeing
the bigger picture. Maybe we'll start with Jason in
this case first. Give me a five played in a live
setting. Pretty much my entire life at
some capacity since I was 15 years old or 16.
I'll say a started playing at 15, played with bands, played a
lot of churches, played a lot of solo acts all that good stuff
back in the day. I was dead set on playing
through my DigiTech her P10 processor.
I ran it through a PV Bandit amp to 12 and then later I got a
crate. Full stack.
I believe it wasn't remember the model, but is 120 watt
solid-state stack. But I ran my DigiTech through
those clean channels. So, it might even be safe to say
my tone may have not been that great back then.
I don't quite remember when I record it.
I recorded direct with that processor, and that's what I
primarily use. But it was the sound that I
like. So, I was pretty picky about
that. But I'd say over the past
because nowadays, I record with my life and my evh 5150, Him and
some plugins. I got specific set of plugins, I
use and that's just my go-to. I've gone back and forth on
things a few times. But I'd say probably about three
or four years ago. I'm like, you know what, I have,
what I like I'm going to stop going down this Rabbit Hole of
like, gotta find a nest next best amps in.
Do this new product just came out the quad cortex, this that
and the other. And we're, you know, we got all
these new things coming out like every week.
It seems like and I just don't care so much anymore.
I like the sound. I have, I might switch.
To something else. I won't necessarily call that an
upgrade. Oh, just me be doing something
different, for the sake of doing something different.
You know, if, if you know, I'm playing solo acts right now.
I played those selects acoustic a little bit electric mainly
through the Pod go Line, 6 Pod go, is it the absolute best tone
or guitar player is going to come out?
It's like oh I love your tone. Probably not quite a few
compliments on it here and there, you know but it fits it
just works and it's to me in some things in life.
You get to the point where, you know, good enough is that
Perfection. Because as we talked about once
you get to that point and go beyond that, you're just
tweaking and doesn't really sound better after the two
hours. You spent tweaking?
I don't know. So anyway, I'd say it happened
about three, four years ago for me.
Wow Nick you want to, you want to tag onto that?
I don't even remember what the question was.
I was so what Jay, so intently and what like, what AJ, what do
you mean? What a, what a, what point did
you go from focusing much on tone to focusing on the bigger
picture? It's hard.
That's a hard question, I guess. Maybe around like 20 years ago
or so. about 20 years ago or so when I was in my 20s was around
the time that I could start to afford the gear that I always
wanted, it started to wind up with like half sacks and you
know, and Marshalls and all sorts of good tones and stuff
like that, and You know, it was that was the Step Up from the
old like playing with combo amps and stuff like that.
Like shit that you really didn't want to be playing with, you
know what I mean? But I mean it's important to say
to that. I'm not really a guitar player
like I'm not exclusively a guitar player, I don't like like
my man. Dina was a guitar player, you
know what I mean? He'll fucking Play like the
Berkeley kids. You know what I mean?
Eight hours a day for years and years and years like that kids a
fucking guitar player. I'm not.
I'm a Pianist, you know. I just like playing the guitar
which is a huge distinction so I don't want you to get it
twisted. But yeah, around 20 years ago or
so. Like when we started to be able
to use those, you know, that high end gear, that quality gear
was around the time where I really started to stop mattering
because I would see people do this thing that I'm explaining
this this the forever switching out, amps and forever, fucking
chasing down this, this You know, elusive tone that's always
over the next Horizon, not all, it's just over the next Horizon.
It's just over the next Horizon and like, like I'm all for like,
you know, bettering your sound and making things sound cooler
and stuff like that. But like again, you know, like I
said last podcast, they do it in a vacuum, they sit in and play
in front of the ramp Ad nauseam, too close to the ramp because
they have to go back and forth to the I'll attend.
It's just And to me like back them, like once I got something
that sounded really good. I was like, okay, that's the
sound I was looking for. You know what I mean and it's
changed over the years, it hasn't stayed static but I mean
in 20 years it's probably moved from you know Gibson through
Marshall to PRS through 5150, you know what I mean.
Like there's there's huge differences in those tones and
you got to know which one of those tones you want to use but
Like the the tweaking of the tone is an endless, like it get
a tone that sounds good. And like our here, we go, let's
go. Let's fucking go, you know what
I mean? It's not You know what I'm
saying? Yes, so one, final question, I
think just to kind of round off our conversation of all of this,
which one's more important, a higher quality guitar, or a
higher quality amplifier, or are they both or?
Is it? None of them?
Wow, man. That's a, I think.
I mean, me, personally, I might would choose the higher quality
guitar, and now, let me preface by Saying that doesn't mean it
has to be some, you know, 2,000 or 5,000 dollar guitar.
What I would say is like I do most of the middle of the road
guitars in my opinion that are anywhere between like 900 and
maybe 1,500, maybe a little more these days, like an Ibanez
Prestige, like a the ESP LTD models there there m-1000.
I'd rather have the guitar only because that's going to impact
my performance. If I have a crappy guitar and it
doesn't play, Well, and it just is just crap.
Well, I could be playing through the most awesome rig ever, but
I'm not going to get my typical performance out of it, you know.
So I mean, I don't want to play through a crappy amp but if
you're giving me a choice which one you know, I'll make the best
with the hiring guitar as opposed to a crappy guitar.
Okay. Nick I have so much to say about
this so much to say Why must eat?
Here we go. Alright so first of all, when it
comes to guitars I don't think price matters that much I think
once you so in my experience there's a tear of guitar which
is like $50 to about $250 where you're going to get a similar
playing instrument and then there's 250 to about 600 where
you're going to get a similar playing instrument and then
dollars and up in my experience. And that means, six hundred
dollars all the way to 18 thousand dollars.
There's not going to be a huge amount of difference, dude, the
guitar behind me, the PRS. It sitting on the wall is $1300.
It's got a plastic nut. It's plastic.
I mean it it's a joke. Like does it play good?
Yeah, it's it plays. Okay, you know what I mean?
But I had a PRS, it was $600. It doesn't play better than
that. The So did the extra you know,
700 hours that I spent on that guitar did not change the
playability of the guitar. So first if you can get a guitar
in the six hundred dollar range, I think you'll be set forever.
And I think, what's more important than getting?
It's a guitar that's expensive is a guitar that you can play
well. Yeah, that you can play well
specifically the one, because that's your interface.
You know what I mean, man. Like if you can find one that
your hands love you, Cool. The other huge consideration is,
are you playing what kind of music are you playing?
Like are if you're playing shreddy 80s metal you better
have a high-end guitar because the cheaper their guitar, the
more you're going to lose intonation.
You know what I mean? The wood is going to be cheaper,
you're going to get compressed particle.
Would your truss rods? Aren't going to be as good if
they're just they're not going to be as well.
Built, if you're playing Rhythm guitars and your way down at the
bottom of the neck and you know, you're barely getting up past
the fifth fret, you can have a two hundred dollar, Jackson the
fucking rips for that. I put a laundromat in it that
motherfucker got about it, but I mean, and again, I have to tune
it, you know, every time that I play a song.
Yeah, because it's not well built in that way.
So I'm, you know, I would lose that. and as far as amps go
like, If you like the way the tone sounds, that's all that
matters, you know what I mean? Like, if you're happy with it,
like I said, like, once you get to that level of gear where you
can get like a good Half Stack with selections or Sheffield
some like by an app that you like, like a nice head or
whatever. Or even now looking nice
processor, like the quad cortex are like the helix or something
like that. Like if you can get something
like that and get a good sounding Tony you like that's
all that. Otters.
So like, I, you know, I skirted the question by trying to
explain away my answer and the answer.
Good answer Nick. Well, the answer is what's your
priority, okay? If you're doing something like
Jays doing where you, you know, you need to be in the upper
parts of the fretboard. Buy more expensive guitar,
because you're going to lose that.
If you're a rhythm guy, you can get away with a cheaper guitar
and maybe spend more money on an amp.
That would be my answer for that.
Great You talk about a real quick though.
We were talking about because I know they're making really great
solid state like the orange. They have a new solid state a
out and I haven't played through one yet.
I'm hope play through one at the local guitar store.
Replay, Guitar, Exchange coming up.
When I go there next week or actually, it's this week, will
you is there a huge difference? Nick?
And it's the whole probably different conversation but tubes
versus solid state, when we're talking about amplifiers, Of
course, of course, it's huge. Huge huge.
I mean, with tubes, you get that really, you get a warmer tone.
Okay. A my opinion, you know what, I
made you get a round. It out lower mid, there's a
reason why when that technology was invented that people have
been chasing that tube amp sense.
You know what I mean? And that's been a standard.
Does that mean that there's not a place for solid-state?
No, no there for sure is and I made Especially like, if you're
doing something that's colder sounding, or if you have some
kind of modeling, like I saw a band, right?
A couple of years ago and they all had real high-end, a
modelers running through solid state amps.
And you can't tell the difference, you know what I
mean? Because the technology is there
now. So, that would be my answer for
that. Like, what I record?
A solid-state. Sure contextually if the context
was right, you know what I mean? But again, like I don't even I
don't even really go into the analog world anymore.
You know, as far as guitar goes because what's going on in
digital is is you know I can't remember if we talked about this
last time or not, but like this idea of like the old analog guy
is like having a mica cab and get that sounded blah, blah,
blah, blah. The sound that they were looking
for all along that they're eventually going to come to is
the one that My DIY now. So you know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah. The fucking the default sounds
that come with. Like most of these plugins are
what these analog guys were looking for all the time and if
they could hear they would lose their mind, would you say these
plugins are kind of like you just said, I think you just said
decision, that's the end result what we plug into when we plug
the guitar and are face. Pull up.
Our favorite amp Sim and play through that Mesa sem or
whatever it is 5150. That's the end result at the
That we were looking for recording that tube amp, right?
Just like if you were to zoom out enough than that's it, like
I all I care about is the record and how does it sound, right?
Right. You know what I mean?
Like if you can get a good sound doing what you're doing, great.
If I can get a good say like at the end of the day, like if I
record a record and I go through this and, you know, I've talked
to Ken about this a bunch. I think we even talked about it
last time we were talking about like analog versus in the Box.
Poor people are always talking about how good their five
thousand dollar compressor Rose and I'm like, that's cool.
Yeah, it does. Anyone notice it on the record
Or people like holy shit, man. That's incredible.
Like, how did you get that sound?
He's like can only get to sound with this compressor versus the
guy that works in the Box. It hasn't you know and equally
good sounding record. Look, nobody gives a fuck
outside of us, right? It's just a cell gear, dude.
At the end of the day, like if it sounds good, it is good.
So that means up another point, you know, and maybe this is for
our, You guitar players, listening out there and it's
hard for us to adapt new things and change.
Sometimes I get that totally get that I've had many flaws.
So in my thinking, over the years as a musician in other
areas too but you have to ask yourself at the end of day, am I
writing a record for just musicians and guitar player so
they can say, oh, what a great tone.
How did you get that tone? Or are you writing a record for
people that like that style of music?
I think there's a little bit different mindset that goes on
there. That's a whole Rabbit Hole of a
conversations and musicians playing the musicians, right?
Yeah. Some great memes about that when
I That's not a thing. We've been playing for other
musicians, our whole lives but you know it's so funny.
When another musician walks in the room, the way you're playing
changes. Oh man, you know, but I did that
we get over like like we were we were talking about before the
podcast Jay about get all expectations and you know
managing before you even go into the situation that you're going
into having a vanishing point, that's way way down.
You know, obviously in the distance of again, know,
thyself, what are you writing quote?
What's the, what's the purpose? What's the purpose of this
record be running? Is it music inside you?
That's just needs to come out. You've always wanted to write
like there's that's the best, you know, that's the shit if
you're writing it to go on the radio that's fine.
But you know what I mean, we have to have a conversation.
All right, you know what I mean? Like all those things are
really, really important to consider.
I think everything with intention.
Yes, I like that. Yes.
I like that. At least, you know, some
forethought into it whether or not it executes that way is
another story. But you know what I mean?
They get it. You might, you could have all
the best intentions in the world and have it turn out like dog
shit. And vice versa, you can go into
it, totally blind. And come up with the most
amazing thing ever, but you know, Back to the conversation
of, you know, working with your engineer and other professionals
rather than working against them.
You know, I always tell myself, I don't want to be my own
weakest link. So we're in the studio and no
Nick were to say to me. Hey man, I'm going to, I would
say hey you know what, Nick just change the tone to whatever you
think fits best. I'm just going to play the music
and I'm going to trust your judgment on that, you know,
unless it's something I just completely don't like but I
really can't imagine that being the case with You because you
makes Rock and metal music. So, you know, and I think
there's are not saying you have to take all of that, right?
I mean, maybe there's something I might want to change but again
we're working with your sound engineer and a producer versus
working, you know, against them. I think that's important and
important. Takeaway sure.
And and again, it's the same concept as ghetto getting that
initial tone and and then leaving it alone.
Know what I mean? Like, I think and having the
conversation of like, look, is this tone going to sound good in
the mix? Like what are we, what are we
searching for in the mix and like there's all different
levels at that? But yeah, I that's one of the
reasons that you try to find a producer whose like-minded.
Like I made a few come into dual metal record with me, any
genres, a metal like a guarantee.
You it's not going to sound like shit.
Same thing with the rock record and stuff like that, you know?
I mean if you describe your vision to me like we'll get it
done, but I'm all about healthy. Back.
I'm not about nitpicking feedback.
Yeah, the nonsense like to like shut the fuck up.
You know what I mean? Like, if you want to talk about
the difference between like the sound of a marshal or an orange,
or a 5150, or a Randall, you know what I mean?
If you want to have those conversations and try a couple
of those different amps, out contextually, I am all fucking
for that if we're going to endlessly tweak knobs for 5
hours like, no, we're not doing that.
Yeah, Target our zone, five hours ago, man.
Fucking ruled and what are you doing?
You know, yeah. Learn to trust the process
because the whole point of a sound engineer in that situation
is to try to make it fit into the bigger picture.
And, you know, sometimes you have to just learn to let go.
And I mean, let's go, let's Circle it all the way back to
the beginning of this this podcast and just know thyself.
You know what I mean? If you because, in everyone,
Plays metal and every one of his punk rock thinks that what
they're doing is the most unique thing and they have blinders on
and stuff like that and even get to this just take a step back
and go. Nah man, I'm just a metal band,
you know, I mean we're just a metal band, we're just a punk
band, we're just a rock band, you know what I mean?
And if you do that, then you can then understand that there's an
entire Army of people that understand what you're trying to
do and are there to help you like the sound guy that guy.
He's not an idiot, he's not going to fuck your shit up.
You know what I mean? Like with with some I'm
exceptions. I'm sure but like, that guy
knows the room and if he's used to dial in a metal like let him
die in, I'll take care of you, you know, I mean, if you go to a
producer, who knows how to do these things like, Chris.
Mm. Yeah, and like you mentioned
what bands? Like you mentioned asking will
what bands do you sound like? And I'm like, whoa no no we
don't sound like anyone rear original.
I think it's important to in your music.
Sam be original because you wrote it.
But I think it is important to say, well I'm I am kind of going
for this Vibe here in here. Maybe a mixture of that, that
even goes in, this is another conversation for another day,
but that even goes back to marketing.
Can you? And I were taught this in
marketing that you know? Well what do you sound like
this? This is how you develop your
audience my last record Masterpiece.
I said, hey if you like him on a Mars and you like Megadeth
because those those are two different styles and that's kind
of what this record sounded like.
Well those are the people that are probably going to like my
album, right? That's, that's kind of what I
was what I was going for. So I think it's important maybe
too kind of associate yourself with, you know, some bands that
you're similar to because you want to get the Right audience
listening as well because it is certainly Not an insult to your
creativity. Right?
It's just a way to make your sound clear, its communication?
Yeah. It's, it's a communicative
device. Like, if you're if you say, you
know what we're Heavy band and I really like the vibe, the UK,
see strains putting out That's communicate you.
You've just communicated something huge to me.
Like, I know that band, I love that band.
Like I know what you're looking for a nautical after it, I know
what to do. If you come in to me and say,
you know, I'm a heavy band and we're just, I don't know, man.
We're just kind of just kind of doing our own thing.
Like I'm lost. You haven't communicated shit to
me. You know what I mean?
I appreciate I'm an artist, I appreciate the need to be unique
for the want to be unique, but I mean, again, zoom out.
Like, do you have Verse Chorus Verse going on?
Because you're not, that's not unique, answer, pop, music
minutes is pop music and there's nothing wrong with fucking pop
music. I love pop music.
Yeah, but know what it is. The for Magical chords, right?
You know in one other thing to guys you guys listening, if
you're not sure what you sound like and you really like, you
know, I really don't know. Know if you have a following any
type of following on social media or wherever you know, post
a clip a short clip of one of your songs out there and ask
your audience, they will tell you your audience loves to be a
part of that process. Can I this is something you and
I learned as well put a song out there.
Put just a short clip out there something that you put together
and just ask them. Hey, can you guys name?
Three bands? This reminds you of and they
will tell you and that's something you can take back to
your produced through your recording engineer.
And just get a better, you need more clarity on what you're
trying to do. And, you know, every once in a
while, something rolls around, that's really, really hard to
define, or put into a box, you know, a new genre gets created
or like a really new sounding sound, like I said, The Acacia
Strain like in the early days of Deathcore.
Like you know that was a kind of a new sound like that's that's
really hard to explain and if that's the case that's fine like
if you're if you don't have a band to explain it like if
there's like Spirit Box Like who the fuck sounds like Spirit Box?
You know what I mean? Like you're going to be going to
go into the studio and be like, you know, oh yeah, we want to
sound like ex white. Like no dude.
That's a brand new sound. Like that's brand-new, like, I
didn't sound like anything. That's mental, you know, like
that's okay. But be aware.
And if you are in a situation where you're doing something
really avant-garde and unique click, that's what the fuck is
up. Like that's, that's the Apex,
that's the cream of the crop. But if you're not, that's okay
too. If you're just a guy that likes
to play metal, that's fine. You know like I know what my
band sounds like and it makes me really happy to play the music
and I think it's Unique sounding or whatever.
Does that mean? I can't give you a couple
references of what I want it to sound.
Like no sir, I have all the references.
If I was gonna send it out to a mixer right now, fucking forget
about it, but a list of mixer, a list of references. you know, I
mean, yeah. And on that note, let's take it
away because this is all about what we're trying to put out
there, right about creating your own sound and knowing yourself
is a big part of that, right? Jason, this is a huge part of
that you know, I want you guys listening to focus on creating
your own sound, you focus on being original.
In other words, you know, don't necessarily go into it, trying
to sound like another band. That's not the goal but
understand it your influences you've had over the years, you
will naturally. Really come out of them.
You know, it's natural for my wrist to kind of mimic not as a
really sound like, but be similar to what you would hear
from the older Metallica Megadeth stuff like that.
I love bands, like I'm on a Martha.
I love Nightwish, you know, there's a hint of that in some
songs bands, like Evergreen, you know, there.
Another finished band, like, you'd left the European metal.
They just had this just different vibe but you know, go
into it. Yeah, you're going to write your
original music, it's going to be original because you wrote it
right? But Next Point, you're still
going to have a version of course and so forth.
Right? You're going to have those
elements in there. There's nothing wrong with that
and there's nothing wrong. I'm about being able to give
references to what you sound like.
That's okay. That's actually a good thing.
That means you have an audience because at the end of the day,
you can make all the records you want and spend hours, tweaking
Tom, but if no one's listening to your music, well it goes back
to that conversation. Nick about you talking about.
Are you making this just to have?
Nothing out there. So yeah, I did it for my
friends. My five friends listen to, or do
you want to create something that's going to have some sort
of movement, in the market so well, and, and I think it's a
really important thing to say. And I maybe should have said
this before we even started. But I mean, being this harsh
about guitars being this, get this, this super dickish about
guitars. Is about trying to maximize
creativity. Not minimize it.
It's not about shutting people down, it's about focusing on
what matters and does guitar tone matter.
Yes. But it only matters to a point.
That's that's the point that I'm trying to make.
And I mean I don't want anyone to think like what the fuck is
this guy talking about? Like he told me not to be
creative. No, be creative, but be
creative. Where it matters?
You know, don't let your tone hinder, you don't let the hours
of tweaking his? Under you from being creative so
that don't let it restricted you decide to write that man until
the right. How many guitars do I know that
waste hours and hours and hours of their life trying to fucking
dial in distorted guitar and I'm like, bro you have three knobs
on that amp. You fucking kidding me thought
within a let's go like you you know what I mean?
Like, endlessly tweaking frequencies has.
Come on, man. Well of it, dude.
Nick, it has been a pleasure. Pleasure having you on man?
I love the wisdom that you're sharing with this dude.
And all of you folks listening right now.
I know that you got some valuable gold nuggets.
They go back and listen to this again and I encourage you guys
break out a notepad, get an old-school notepad or you take
some notes, man. A lot of things will just Lodge
in your head and, and you'll retain it a lot better because
Nick brought up some extremely valid points.
I think will help you guys, guys want, thank you once again for
listening, Nick. Thank you again for being on
here, man, priest. Brother pleasure service, real
quick plug guys. Free in the show.
Go over to metal Mastermind.com. Nick actually has a complete
course. We just made a major upgrade to
that course there's four completely different mixing
scenarios, it's called metal producer Overlord, the mixing
Series. So look for that on metal
Mastermind.com guys. Grab a copy of that.
That's going to help you tremendously.
Give you a lot of value there. So guys, thank you once again
for listening. As always create your Your own
sound.