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Hi everyone, and welcome to 
another episode of the Metal 

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Mastermind Podcast. 
I'm your host, Ken Kanellis, and

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today I'm with a special guest, 
Derek Cruz. 

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Derek, why don't you introduce 
yourself to our audience and 

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just talk a little bit about, 
you know, what you do on a daily

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basis and then we'll get it 
deeper into that. 

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OK, hey, yeah, as Ken said, my 
name is Derrick Cruz. 

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I am a producer, multi 
instrumentalist, musician, 

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advocate for all things music so
doesn't matter if it is in the 

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business side of it or if it's 
just playing and rocking and 

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jamming my friends. 
So yeah, my day-to-day is pretty

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much wake up, find the music in 
the world and figure out how to 

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squeeze some more out of it. 
That's amazing. 

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So actually, yes, OK, we're, 
we're still recording, just 

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making sure we're actually 
trying this as a new thing 

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today. 
We're doing in person 

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podcasting, which is a little 
different than we've always done

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this. 
And you guys have seen a couple 

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of the things with me and 
Elizabeth. 

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But having a guest here on Metal
Mastermind in person like this 

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outside of our immediate closest
relatives is actually quite 

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exciting. 
So we're going to get into it 

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now. 
I want to just start off by 

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asking you, Derek, your sort of 
background. 

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What was it like when you were 
growing up? 

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Were you always involved in 
music or did this kind of spring

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on to you over time? 
What was your upbringing in 

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music like? 
OK. 

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Yeah. 
So honestly, from an early age, 

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there was always music around my
house. 

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My parents are both musicians, 
so my father plays. 

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He is an engineer. 
He worked in the music store 

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when I grew up. 
So there was always music 

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around. 
My mother's singer, she sang 

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with Sammy Davis Junior when she
was 19 years old. 

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And they had careers. 
They were, it was the 70s and 

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the 80s, you know, they grew up 
playing. 

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So like from that there was 
always great music around. 

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I stole the records when I was 
old enough to understand it, you

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know, mostly a show tunes 
collection. 

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But, you know, some Zeppelin 
here, some really Joel there, 

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some good stuff. 
You know, so that my grandmother

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was amateur Jingle writer, so 
she kind of taught me piano 

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early on. 
And so, yeah, like from that, 

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you know, you had a little kid 
drum set when you were, you 

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know, really young and having 
just the encouragement of that. 

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My father being an engineer, he 
had a studio when I was like, 

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yeah, hi. 
And it was in a, it was in a 

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plywood like closet that he 
built. 

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And he had old Yamaha speakers 
hanging on chains and like an 

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old Macintosh LC2 or something 
with like no RAM. 

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And they would make records in 
the, in the laundry room with 

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eggshell on the walls and, you 
know, do the thing. 

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So that's, that was my home 
environment growing up in that 

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world. 
And going to the music store. 

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I, if I wanted to skip school, 
they would take me, he would 

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take me to the music store. 
So I'm surrounded by, you know, 

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old, angry, you know, music 
store, guitar freaks and all 

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sorts of weird. 
Character changes as. 

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No, they're all the same. 
It's always the same. 

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They heard the same people. 
From Guitar Center all the way 

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back to my childhood ace music 
in Miami. 

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So, yeah, like through that, 
like, you know, I got a love of,

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of music and appreciation of the
lifestyle and the whole thing. 

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And it led to around like I, I 
want to say I was maybe like 8 

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that that there was this after 
school program called the 

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Singing Suns right in Florida. 
And they were a boy choir that 

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would train people at a certain 
level that they believe could 

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sing and, you know, hadn't had 
pitch and things. 

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And they would train them at 
like a college degree of theory,

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composition and and sight 
reading and that kind of thing 

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intervals. 
So like after school I would be 

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going, you know, three times a 
week. 

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And then after a certain point, 
there were multiple choirs and 

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you get to a point where you're 
touring. 

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So then by the time I was 12, I 
was touring the UK and this 

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choir and doing, you know, these
international choir 

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performances, singing in Latin, 
French and German and all these 

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crazy languages. 
What's? 

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That like at at a young age, you
know, being involved in music 

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and then having to experience 
like a tour at that age, like, 

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were you nervous? 
Did you have like stage fright 

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or was it kind of natural over 
time? 

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Where are you just a natural at 
it? 

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Well, it's funny, all right. 
I have a good, I have a good 

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story for you. 
All right. 

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So, so early on, the director 
really like kind of thrusted me 

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into like, I guess because of my
personality, a lot of the boys 

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in the choir, they all we we had
like a click and a thing. 

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So I was kind of in almost 
leader position. 

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So he would if if I was messing 
around, he'd he'd pull me aside,

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be like, they look to you. 
You can't mess around like that.

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Hey, you can't play Patty cake 
in the court, you know, the 

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actual Patty cake. 
So, you know, it's like, come 

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on, you got to you got to adults
up a little bit. 

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So when we go, when we would go 
over, right, like, yeah, like we

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would have to do some of the the
higher tier singers would have 

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to do like solo competition. 
And that's where the pressure 

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you're like, I'm by myself. 
I don't have all, you know, 40 

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of the other guys with me to do 
this. 

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So the second tour I ever did, 
the first in in England, which 

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was crazy because you know, 
you're 12 years old and you're 

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touring at another country and 
your parents are just going 

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like, OK, here you go. 
Have fun. 

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It's. 
Like I don't know what. 

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I'm doing right, Like what am I 
doing here? 

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You know, there's adults 
watching you. 

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So the second tour we went to 
San Francisco, which was, you 

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know, not as glamorous as the 
UK, but still fun because, you 

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know, I'm 13, you know, there's 
some cute girls from Finland I'm

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liking. 
There's always a dance at the 

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end of it for all of us. 
But that competition in England,

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I didn't win anything, but in 
that competition I got second 

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place. 
So at the end of the performing 

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or the week that you're there 
performing against all these 

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international choirs, you know, 
Japan, Germany, China, they're 

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all there right in Piedmont, CA,
like just outside of San 

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Francisco, you have to sing in 
front of all the choirs at the 

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final concert, which is in this 
like 10,000 person auditorium 

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and all the patrons who enjoy 
this kind of thing. 

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So I'm little 13 year old me, 
and I have to go sing in front 

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of 1015 thousand people. 
And this is like crazy to me. 

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And I'm backstage, like waiting 
to go out to call your name. 

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I walk up to the stage now. 
The stage was like a plywood, 

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you know, like, like what we're 
used to, you know, at some like 

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lower tier festivals or 
something like that. 

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Little rickety. 
Yeah, I'm excited. 

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You know, I'm in my little suit 
and I'm a fat I, I for my whole 

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life, I was just run upstairs, 
right? 

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And I always like very quickly, 
I want to get up, get it over 

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with. 
So a couple steps and I snack on

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my face. 
Like I fall right on my face in 

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front of 15,000 people. 
Now you've never heard 15,000 

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people. 
Heard around the world 15,000 

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without Will Smith involved so. 
A couple more zeros. 

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So you've never heard 15,000 
people laugh at you, right? 

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I mean like outright laughing, 
right? 

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So now I'm like, OK, I got to 
get up. 

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I got to dust myself off. 
And I take a couple more steps. 

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I almost trip again and I hear a
gasp, right? 

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Like you hear it. 
And then I get on stage. 

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Finally, I'm in front of the 
microphone. 

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It's a straight stand and I sing
my song, which is a silly 

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little, you know, song. 
I got me a cat. 

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That's a silly little farm song 
almost. 

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So at the end of it, right, it's
through the whole thing. 

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My legs are shaking like you can
see the micro stand just going 

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like this because I'm I'm that 
nervous like it. 

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And it was that rickety of a 
stage and going from the most 

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embarrassing moment of your life
to the one of the more 

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satisfying with a standing 
applause and like the, you know,

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the standing ovation. 
So like the humility is there. 

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It's like I've fallen in my face
in front of 15,000 people. 

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Once you do that, I think you're
pretty much like, OK, I can do. 

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It well, so that that actually 
brings up a really interesting 

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perspective of, you know, 
approaching live sound and being

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a part of, you know, the music 
scene for an audience is that I 

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mean, you have to kind of go 
through an experience and it 

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doesn't have to be necessarily 
traumatic, but I do think that 

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that helped you, that helped 
you, you know, allowed you to 

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kind of shrug off the nerves and
like, oh, I've had a really bad 

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moment in my past before for 
this kind of thing that I mean, 

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it'd have to really go pretty 
far for where to top at. 

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So it helps you to just kind of 
be a little bit more 

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comfortable, I think. 
Yeah, and that's the butterflies

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kind of all flew out after. 
The moment, I mean, I always I 

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always still akin that, you 
know, there's still a little bit

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of a nerve, but it kind of it 
kind of like you learn to deal 

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with it. 
And as you go through these 

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things, it becomes a lot easier 
over time. 

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So just fall flat on your face, 
you know, that's all you got. 

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To get in front of 15,000 people
or more, you know. 

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And then you pass the bar for 
what it means to be a musician 

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on stage. 
No, that's hilarious. 

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So now, so your father was an 
engineer and you so you've 

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always been around like 
production and all this kind of 

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stuff. 
And being at an early age, your 

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parents really like nurtured 
that for you, which is which is 

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which is amazing. 
Yeah, they really encouraged it.

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Yeah, for, for me, I come from 
an artistic family as well. 

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So arts and you know, for me 
early on it was more visual, but

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I grew into music later in my 
teens and it was always the 

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same. 
So I, I can relate with an 

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artistic family supporting that.
It's a, it's a super important 

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part of, of, of being a, a 
musician in your upbringing. 

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And it quite it does give 
advantages into how you pull 

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yourself through your career. 
So now let's go into production 

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a little bit further. 
Because you're, you know, you're

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an independent artist. 
You also like work with your 

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wife, who's Amanda Cross. 
She's an amazing, talented 

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singer. 
Yep, she's incredible. 

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And you also help produce her 
records. 

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All the while you're even 
manufacturing vinyl, right? 

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Like that's a whole nother side 
of this, which you are 

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passionate about and makes 
sense. 

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You in your younger years wanted
to just take the records from 

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your parents and, you know, play
from them. 

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So you have an attachment to 
vinyl? 

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Yeah, definitely. 
Like in in production, do you, 

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do you always think about like 
vinyl at the end of it as like 

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I'm recording this with the 
purpose that it's going to be on

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vinyl and that's how you 
intended to it or is that an 

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afterthought? 
Yeah, I think for me it's 

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definitely like the end goal is 
the highest fidelity is, you 

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know, for listening other than, 
you know, like high fidelity 

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wave is vinyl, at least for the 
physical, right. 

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So I, I grew up in a time frame,
you know, I'm born in the 80s. 

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So like, you know, I I'm in the 
record headspace where like it's

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all about LP, right. 
Full LPEPS are fun too, you 

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know, 7 inches and, and that. 
But LP is like, you know, there 

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is nothing better than opening 
the record, looking through the 

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lyrics, looking through the 
credits, seeing who played on it

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and who engineered it and what 
studio they did it in. 

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And you know, and the artwork 
was so big and like, you're like

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trying to find little secret 
things and different people's 

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records. 
You know, your friend says, oh, 

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if you play this one backwards, 
it does this and there's a 

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little image there. 
And that was that. 

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That was the fun of it to me. 
It was almost like a little, 

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there's always a little mystery.
Interesting when you open it up,

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right? 
So like, I feel like the thing 

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00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:46,520
that makes music so interesting 
is that there is a little bit of

223
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mystery and everything, right? 
Because you don't know where the

224
00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,240
artist is coming from when they 
write the song. 

225
00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:55,840
Or, you know, like my wife, when
she writes, she has a 

226
00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,240
perspective, right? 
But when I'm listening to her 

227
00:12:58,240 --> 00:12:59,920
lyrics. 
I have a completely. 

228
00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:02,000
Different perspective of what I 
think the song is, right? 

229
00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:03,720
And that's the great thing about
music. 

230
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,600
Everybody can adapt their own 
version of the song or the 

231
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record in their own way, based, 
based off of their life. 

232
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,400
And then when they actually get 
the vinyl and the real thing, 

233
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they can go. 
And there's sometimes their 

234
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stories, you know, you talk, 
you're going on something like 

235
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this, and you go, well, 
actually, that song was about, 

236
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:27,400
you know, liver and onions. 
Yeah, a little stinky and 

237
00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,080
sometimes, but not no, that's 
hilarious that that. 

238
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,880
It's actually also really cool 
because when you're thinking 

239
00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:38,320
about, you know, fidelity, there
is a lot that goes behind it 

240
00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:40,280
engineering wise and technically
right. 

241
00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:46,320
So your efforts are you know, 
you, I know you definitely think

242
00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:52,400
this way that you know upfront 
going to, you know, even an an 

243
00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,880
expensive place to record at it.
It might seem expensive, but the

244
00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,880
payoff is is a legacy. 
Yes, exactly in the in the 

245
00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:04,720
sound, you know, growing up at 
home, right, going from a closet

246
00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,200
2 by 4 closet of my dad's 
recording studio at a young age 

247
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,720
and then building my first 
studio with him at like the same

248
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:16,280
year I went to England, right. 
It was understanding like why 

249
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,880
sound does what it does, right. 
And then going through all of 

250
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,640
that, reading the books of like 
The Beatles and saying like, oh,

251
00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,760
they put that mic there and I 
went and that's how they got 

252
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,000
that sound. 
And then figuring that out, I 

253
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:33,280
think that like learning every 
step of it and understanding why

254
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,920
electronics and frequency and 
tubes and all these things. 

255
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,520
Do you dabble in like, tinkering
and electronics? 

256
00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,000
Oh. 
No, no, that was one thing. 

257
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,440
I always kind of just let my 
engineer friend. 

258
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,320
Yeah, it took me a long time to 
actually want to engineer 

259
00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,960
because I was spoiled. 
My father was an engineer, so I 

260
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,320
was like, you'd be the engineer,
I'll be the producer and I'll 

261
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:59,040
play, you know, and I'll have 
the, the creative ideas and then

262
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,920
you just find the sounds, you 
know, I go, I wanted to sound 

263
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,720
like a, you know, Radiohead's 
blah, blah, blah. 

264
00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,560
Or, you know, like when we had a
metal band, it was like we 

265
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,520
needed to sound as like heavy as
this record, you know. 

266
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:16,800
So with engineers, I've it's 
like a whole other brain side, 

267
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:18,600
right. 
You have to strap on left brain,

268
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:23,040
right brain, you know, and just 
think like, OK, wait, I have to 

269
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:28,080
make sure everything's in a row 
and my eggs are, you know, ducks

270
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,320
are in her own eggs are in the 
right basket. 

271
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:37,200
So I, I, I really dragged my 
feet on Pro Tools and like 

272
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,520
diving into the understandings 
of compression and you know, all

273
00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,480
of the things. 
And then finally it all, you 

274
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,880
know, you build a couple of 
enough studios around town and 

275
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:48,840
you know, like, well, I got to 
do this myself. 

276
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:50,840
Right. 
So how, how, how much work do 

277
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,840
you do in your personal studio 
versus going out to recording 

278
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,440
studios nowadays? 
I think it's about 1/2 and half 

279
00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:01,680
for me, you know, like you were 
saying, like major studios like 

280
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,480
electric lady or, or there's a 
studio in New York I like to 

281
00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,160
work in called Flux that I keep 
a lot of different pieces of 

282
00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:09,720
gear there because I do a lot 
there. 

283
00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,800
Like the advantages to doing 
work in those studios are 

284
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,680
obviously we're in New York. 
So like my, my home studio is 

285
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:24,440
just a a control room and a 
small live room that basically 

286
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,120
is the vocal booth or you can 
put a guitar amp in there, 

287
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,960
right? 
And so, you know, we get 

288
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:31,920
creative. 
We go in our living rooms and we

289
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,640
hook up drums when we detune the
craziness. 

290
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:40,360
But because I'm striving for 
something that I feel should be 

291
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:44,960
able to be on the same level as 
the idols of my, you know, my 

292
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:49,000
past and the music that's been 
made before me, I feel it's 

293
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,560
important to like, they're, they
played through these pieces of 

294
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,960
equipment for reasons, right? 
You know, there's a reason why 

295
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,640
Eddie Kramer loved Helios. 
You know, why the, you know, 

296
00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:05,680
the, the Stones had a Helios, 
you know, mobile studio or why 

297
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,200
the board at Abbey Road makes 
all The Beatles records and the 

298
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,720
Pink Floyd record sound that way
because it's the electronics and

299
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:16,599
the things in it. 
So to me, I feel it's really 

300
00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:21,680
important to be able to start at
a level where if I'm going to 

301
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,960
not be working at home, right, 
where I'm just doing overdubs or

302
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:30,600
maybe I'm doing pre production 
to go into these rooms and let 

303
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,280
the electricity do the work, you
know, but all of that happened 

304
00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,120
when working with people that 
are better than me. 

305
00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:38,160
I think that's. 
The most important thing? 

306
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,080
That's a big, big, big facet of 
that I. 

307
00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:44,880
Think right Engineers like 
yourself, musicians, producers 

308
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:46,840
across the board, You know, for 
me, no ego. 

309
00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,400
It's like I'm always going to 
learn from everyone around me 

310
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,560
because I know that if I put 
people in a room that are better

311
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:57,040
than me, I'm going to want to 
raise my abilities to that 

312
00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:58,640
standard. 
And this is something we talked 

313
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:02,000
about our metal mastermind quite
a bit, which is that working in 

314
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:03,680
the music industry, it's a 
people industry. 

315
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:08,160
It's not just, you know, you 
twiddling your fingers on a 

316
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:12,200
guitar at home all day every 
day, which you can do, but like 

317
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:16,240
when you're moving in a 
direction to achieve a certain 

318
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:21,120
either notoriety, fame or just 
success in your in your career, 

319
00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:23,960
whatever you that defines for 
you in that case, most of the 

320
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,760
time it's going to involve 
somebody else involved in that 

321
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,440
process. 
So, you know, I think it's, it's

322
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,960
super important to also like 
keep that in mind. 

323
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:37,440
A lot of the things and efforts 
that we do in modern home 

324
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:43,320
recording, they still apply as 
they do in in traditional, you 

325
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:44,920
know, commercial sound 
recordings. 

326
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:49,640
But I think that in the home, 
because of the limitations, you 

327
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,480
know, we, we, we sort of garner 
for at least trying to get the 

328
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,800
most efficient way and or 
economical way to, to get a 

329
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,960
recording. 
And that could be in many ways 

330
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,640
like a very professional 
sounding demo. 

331
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,760
And if you have the space, you 
can get it to a higher level, of

332
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,160
course. 
But you know, where's the 

333
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,880
blurred line of what becomes 
commercial versus, you know, 

334
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,440
home, you know, equivalency. 
So I. 

335
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:17,600
Feel like that's changed now. 
Like for instance, you know the 

336
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:22,080
example of Phineas, who is, you 
know, Billy Eilish's brother, 

337
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,520
right? 
So they made that first record. 

338
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,000
The rumor is on $3500 of gear, 
right? 

339
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,240
So like you're talking your 
laptop, you know, an Apollo, a 

340
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,480
good microphone and maybe a mic 
free, right? 

341
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,800
And the right plug in. 
So I feel like now home 

342
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,040
recordings can be completely 
commercial, right? 

343
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,560
The first guy to really do that 
and do the mobile studio thing 

344
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:49,080
was Todd Rundgren, right? 
Todd, do you know when he did 

345
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:53,560
those early records by himself? 
He really created the whole 

346
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,640
mobile studio thing. 
Now, The funny thing is most 

347
00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:00,280
people don't know that before 
Todd, there was a guy named 

348
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:06,160
Emmett Rhodes. 
Emmett Rhodes was this guy who 

349
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,840
made an entire recording studio 
in like the late 60s in his in 

350
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,400
his house. 
And or in his garage. 

351
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,720
I think he was a he was a true 
garage warrior and the guy 

352
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,240
sounds like Paul McCartney. 
It's amazing stuff. 

353
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,480
You should listen to to Emmett 
if you don't don't know his 

354
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,240
work. 
It's good stuff. 

355
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:26,600
Wow, amazing. 
Yeah. 

356
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,600
And, and it's so true. 
I mean, like now, like those 

357
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,960
blurry lines are becoming even 
more diffused. 

358
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:40,120
So the, But what I find really 
valuable about a commercial 

359
00:20:40,120 --> 00:20:44,800
space and the, the most recent I
would say that I, I've, I've 

360
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,640
experienced was a very special 
place, which was Guilford. 

361
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:53,160
Guilford is in, in Vermont. 
It's like this isolated, you 

362
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,320
know, place. 
I I think I've spoken to you a 

363
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:55,960
little. 
Bit about this. 

364
00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:00,440
Before, but like going into a 
place like that where everything

365
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:06,360
is essentially done for you 
because you're hiring A-Team to,

366
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:12,440
you know, execute your work, the
vibe of how you approach a 

367
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:16,600
recording changes and you're so 
much more like, Oh well, if I'm 

368
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,200
not engineering myself today 
because that's a total 

369
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,160
distraction now you're focusing 
on making art, right And that's 

370
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:28,360
a that's a huge proponent of why
I think commercial studios are 

371
00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:33,000
still very valuable. 
We need to have places where 

372
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:38,160
people focus on one job, either 
engineering, either you're just 

373
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:43,360
being a musician and you know, 
that cost might be expensive for

374
00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:47,240
a lot of folks. 
But you think about if we're 

375
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,080
talking about efficiency and 
like working with home gear, 

376
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,760
right? 
How much longer is it going to 

377
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,520
take you to really try and get 
the same quality as it's just 

378
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,440
buying it for once and getting 
in there and doing it right? 

379
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,080
So that's, that's I, I think 
it's still a very big lesson for

380
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,080
a lot of people to, to walk away
with there. 

381
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:09,000
I definitely agree. 
You know, I feel that the the 

382
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,000
reason like for Guilford, right,
the reason to do something like 

383
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,720
that, right, is you're isolating
yourself from distraction, 

384
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,040
right? 
You know, and when you are doing

385
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,760
it at home, right, you have 
unlimited time, right, Because 

386
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,520
you go at your speed in your 
pace, right? 

387
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,000
In the studio, a lot of people 
are going, oh, oh, I'm paying an

388
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,280
hourly rate or I'm paying a 
daily rate, right? 

389
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,880
So that mentality is still 
there, right? 

390
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,800
But once you get that mentality 
out of your head and you're 

391
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:41,640
like, I'm here to create. 
I trust my, you know, abilities.

392
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,600
I trust the people around me, 
that's when the true art can 

393
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,560
really blossom because you've 
taken all the distraction away. 

394
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,440
You're focusing on one thing, 
like you said, and then you're 

395
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:55,480
able to live in it and see it, 
you know? 

396
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,040
Absolutely. 
Yeah. 

397
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,800
And being, being intuitive about
that process, you know, and that

398
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:01,240
takes experience. 
Actually. 

399
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,640
I think honestly, you know, for 
someone walking into this for 

400
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,960
the first time, that's not gonna
be obvious to them. 

401
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:09,880
Yeah, you know as. 
Their cervant and they've, 

402
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:11,800
they've just lived that way 
their whole lives. 

403
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:13,800
And then, right, Good on you, 
man. 

404
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,120
Yeah, but no, that's, that's so 
cool. 

405
00:23:16,120 --> 00:23:19,360
And but you know, guys like we, 
we, we, we see a lot of these 

406
00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:23,000
similar stories. 
It's it, I think it's a very 

407
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,080
universal concept in, in how 
that goes. 

408
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,480
So let's let's talk about now 
the other thing to this whole, 

409
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,200
you know, music side of you, 
which is, you know, management 

410
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,200
and like promo and all this kind
of stuff that usually revolves 

411
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,640
around music business, you know,
like, how did that become a 

412
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,520
thing for you? 
When did you actually start 

413
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,880
paying attention to Like Music 
Business? 

414
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,240
OK. 
I would say probably early on 

415
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,920
because so you start your first 
band right and then you're like,

416
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:51,960
well, where are we going to 
play? 

417
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:53,760
What are we going to do? 
You know, most of the time 

418
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:58,040
you're hoping, you know, I, I 
started playing in bands at 12, 

419
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,520
like the same time I built my 
first studio and I, I'm touring.

420
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,600
So you're figuring it out as you
go along. 

421
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:10,200
But early on we had older, we 
had friends, like a friend, the 

422
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,920
piano player in our band, his 
older brother decided they want 

423
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,800
to start their own record label.
So, and we were going to be 

424
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,080
their first signing and they 
were going to put our CDs out 

425
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:19,440
and they were going to book us 
tours. 

426
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:24,960
And so having like a close 
friends, like older sibling to 

427
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,000
kind of go like here we're 
spearheading it. 

428
00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:30,800
You can see the, the reality of 
what it takes to book and to 

429
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:35,800
manage and to do these things. 
It kind of it, it instilled like

430
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,360
a, OK, there's a DIY in this to 
to music, right? 

431
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,840
You can wear any hat you want. 
And in, in this day and age, 

432
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,040
it's probably better to wear as 
many hats as you can because 

433
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,160
then you make yourself more 
valuable, right? 

434
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,920
You show up and and you go like,
well, I can play. 

435
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,400
I can, I can produce, I can 
manage, I can book. 

436
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,880
So what do you need? 
You know, so I think early on it

437
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:01,160
was just understanding that like
there is value to being able to 

438
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,760
do all these things. 
And then as you do it more and 

439
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,520
more, you get better at it. 
You know, you're going to fall 

440
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,200
on your face, you're going to 
book a show, Nobody's going to 

441
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,200
show up and you're going to, oh,
I didn't market it enough. 

442
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,520
Or, you know, I picked the wrong
bands to play together. 

443
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,240
You know, it wasn't the right 
vibe or whatever it is or the 

444
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,400
venue was too far, you know, for
people to go to. 

445
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:23,840
It was a holiday or it's not. 
So I feel like with everything 

446
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,480
in the music business, you got 
to remember it's a music 

447
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,680
business. 
It's not just music. 

448
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,880
Music's fun and we're lucky 
because it's the only There's 

449
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,720
only two industries where you 
get to play for a living, right?

450
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,280
And music is one of them. 
So, but the other side of it is 

451
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,640
to be able to make it a career 
and a living, you have to 

452
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,480
realize the other side is the 
business side. 

453
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,880
So, you know, like go out there,
read every book about music 

454
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:55,320
business that you can and like 
get close to people who are in 

455
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,040
it, right? 
Like the internships at studios,

456
00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:59,640
you're learning how a studio is 
managed. 

457
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:05,160
Internships at record labels or 
or PR companies, you're learning

458
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,720
from the people who are doing 
it, how to do it. 

459
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,400
And that's only going to make 
your ability to to promote your 

460
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,520
music and to promote your vision
and your arts is going to get 

461
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,520
out better and into the more 
people. 

462
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:19,560
People. 
Industry. 

463
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,240
Yes. 
It's not about what you know, 

464
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,360
it's about who. 
Yes, and that's, that really is 

465
00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:28,080
how it is. 
And that, and, and as a matter 

466
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,040
of fact, it's one of the 
defining reasons why we, we 

467
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,960
call, you know, places like New 
York or LA or Boston, like these

468
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,720
mecas, because that's where 
people come and they congregate 

469
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,040
so much that music and art tend 
to blossom in those places 

470
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:44,640
because of it. 
That's why I came here. 

471
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:46,760
Yeah. 
There was a scene, you know, New

472
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,840
York City. 
You think like if I can make 

473
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,600
their, you know, Sinatra, I can 
make it anywhere. 

474
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,360
Right, exactly. 
So yeah, it's it's all about 

475
00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:59,440
your people around you. 
They make you better and and you

476
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,280
find your people. 
You know that's the. 

477
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,880
Let's talk about, you know, 
prepping for something like a 

478
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:09,360
tour because in the music 
business I feel though as in 

479
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:12,840
order to do a tour for for a lot
of bands, it it doesn't make 

480
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:14,720
financial sense. 
Yeah, it's tough. 

481
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:20,480
It's a very big financial toll. 
So in, in doing a tour, at what 

482
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:26,440
point do you think it's ripe for
a band to go ahead or even a 

483
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,120
solo artist to go ahead and, 
and, and think about doing a 

484
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:30,680
tour? 
That's a tough question. 

485
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,800
I feel like there's no really 
right time, right? 

486
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,480
I mean, obviously if the if the 
stars align and your single is 

487
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,160
climbing up the Spotify playlist
or the charts on the radio, or 

488
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,680
maybe you had a song in ATV 
show, you know, because you had 

489
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,440
a good licensing, a sink deal. 
Or if you had a friend who was 

490
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,320
just like making a movie, it's a
hit and they and you get it. 

491
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,000
Those are the right times, 
obviously, because you have to 

492
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:01,160
support momentum, right? 
It's a wave that we're all 

493
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,040
trying. 
You know, you make a record, you

494
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,240
put it out and you just try to 
ride that wave as long as you 

495
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,480
can. 
You know, in the old days, it 

496
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:13,920
was usually like a 18 month, A2 
year cycle where you'd put a 

497
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,320
record out, you would tour it, 
you'd have money from the record

498
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,880
labels. 
If it was a super hit, you could

499
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,640
really stretch it out, you know,
like Taylor Swift, you know, and

500
00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:28,840
all these other people who are 
doing huge, huge numbers. 

501
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,760
But I feel like as an 
independent artist, right, it's 

502
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,840
kind of up to you on how far you
want to go with your touring, 

503
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,800
right? 
Because say, for instance, like 

504
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,760
my wife and I, right? 
So we, we're still independent 

505
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,360
artist in our own right. 
We put our own records out. 

506
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,320
We have our own record label. 
We we do it all ourselves. 

507
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:50,920
So the touring is the same, 
right? 

508
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,880
Like it's all based off of how 
far we're willing to go, right? 

509
00:28:55,280 --> 00:29:01,040
So I feel like if you can find 
the finances to get yourself to 

510
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:05,080
where you need to go, right, And
get to a place where, you know, 

511
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,960
I'm going to be able to play a 
show, there's going to be people

512
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,480
there. 
I have merchandise, so hopefully

513
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,880
sell that'll get me enough gas 
money in the next place and, you

514
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,680
know, to build my audience and 
my brand. 

515
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,400
So I feel like that the 
preparation is really mental. 

516
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:21,880
Yeah. 
It's preparing yourself for 

517
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,880
like, OK, it's not going to be, 
you know, Beatlemania. 

518
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,320
Yeah, it's not like everybody's 
screaming, you know, like you're

519
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,240
going to go out there, you're 
going to work, you're going to 

520
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,560
play. 
Some days it's McDonald's and 

521
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:36,920
the other days it's filet 
mignon. 

522
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,640
You know, that's that's music. 
You never know what you're going

523
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:45,480
to get, but if you and you stay 
consistent with it and you just 

524
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,400
you hammer your markets. 
If you're a country artist, you 

525
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,320
go to Nashville, you play 
Nashville, you play the South, 

526
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,880
you do the festivals, you know, 
you hit the the venues that you 

527
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,000
know are going to lift that up. 
You're playing metal. 

528
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,120
You know, you got to hit the 
metal circuit. 

529
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:02,560
You want to try to get on Oz 
Fest. 

530
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,280
You want to hit these things 
that you know are going to build

531
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,400
the brand. 
And if you know someone who 

532
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,680
might be able to get you on that
opening gig for, you know, Black

533
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,760
Sabbath and Birmingham, give me 
a call. 

534
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:18,120
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
I hear 70,000 tons of metal is a

535
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,200
pretty fun cruise line to play 
on. 

536
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,160
And yes. 
And stuff that yeah, the cruises

537
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,120
are great. 
Yeah, the cruises are great. 

538
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,840
Yeah, so and we, we have a 
couple listeners that have been 

539
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,520
on 70,000 so they know exactly 
what we're talking about. 

540
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,880
But this is, this is such an 
important part of that you're 

541
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:38,120
saying is you know that most of 
it is mental preparation, 

542
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,240
awareness and aptitude in that 
case. 

543
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:41,800
Because. 
Yeah, I think that's that is 

544
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:43,920
very true. 
Like if you're going to go on a 

545
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:50,960
tour, you have to really be 
totally ready that things are 

546
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,520
going to probably burnout. 
Yeah, break, break fire. 

547
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,200
You know people are going to get
sick. 

548
00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,160
Stuff might get stolen, stolen, 
which by the way, like the music

549
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,320
community is amazing about 
rallying when those things 

550
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,840
happen, right? 
Like I know so many stories of 

551
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,200
people getting stuff stolen and 
like people get together and 

552
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,760
they get you new gear and you're
back on that show the next day. 

553
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,480
So like, don't let that want to 
discourage you because 

554
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,400
obviously, like in the world, 
there are terrible things that 

555
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,360
are going to happen, but there's
a bit of optimism that you have 

556
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,040
to keep with with music, you 
know, you have to be a bit of an

557
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:24,800
optimist it. 
Always feels kind of like a bit 

558
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,520
of a brother or sister kind of. 
I've especially with metal, I've

559
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,720
always felt like there's a very 
big familial community about 

560
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,520
metal. 
Definitely where, you know, 

561
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,400
actually there was a recent 
situation where exactly that 

562
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,880
situation happened. 
A whole band lost their entire 

563
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:40,920
thing. 
I think it was during one of 

564
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:41,920
these hurricanes. 
Yeah. 

565
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,560
And they were reimbursed by 
their audience. 

566
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,400
Yeah, man, it's, it's amazing. 
It's amazing. 

567
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,040
Well, the metal community, like,
so like I had a metal band when 

568
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,040
I was in my 20s, right, with my 
brother. 

569
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,520
And I realized early on that, 
you know, I'd loved metal. 

570
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,320
What was it called? 
It was called the Watergate 

571
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:04,320
Conspiracy. 
Yeah, we were metal core and we 

572
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,480
loved, we loved like Norma Jean 
and Poison the well. 

573
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,440
You know, that's cool, that kind
of stuff. 

574
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,480
And you know, that was so we 
were, we were heavy with, you 

575
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:13,760
know, the breakdowns, the whole 
thing. 

576
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,640
But obviously what I realized 
like playing because Miami had a

577
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,920
really good metal scene, like in
the in the early 2000s, right? 

578
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,400
So there was Churchills, 
Churchills with the spot where 

579
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,480
you could go see. 
Everybody would come through. 

580
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:32,000
Right. 
So I would be kind of friendly 

581
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,280
with some of the guys like the 
guys in Shy Halud or, you know, 

582
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,040
like some of these people in 
some of these like early 

583
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,120
hardcore metal bands from the 
Florida scene. 

584
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,160
And you would see that like, the
whole point is like, we're going

585
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,000
to hit each other. 
But like, if you fall down, I'm 

586
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,560
going to pick you up, you know, 
And I think that's the that's 

587
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,280
the camaraderie with with not 
just metal, but music in 

588
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:53,960
general. 
Like if you fall down, I'm going

589
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,960
to pick you up because I know, 
you know, you're trying to do 

590
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,160
the same things I am. 
We're going to beat on each 

591
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:00,680
other a little bit because we 
love each other. 

592
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,600
So you crack jokes on the road 
and keep things light. 

593
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,160
You know, the pranks don't go 
too far, you know, but. 

594
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,040
Yeah, no, I, I actually, I loved
touring. 

595
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,640
Touring was a big, big part of, 
you know, what I loved about 

596
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,800
doing what I do. 
And I was doing monitors for a 

597
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,800
band and it was like family, you
know? 

598
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,680
And you know, you, you develop 
these relationships with people,

599
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,000
and those relationships last a 
lifetime. 

600
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,640
Most definitely. 
You know, it's a beautiful 

601
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,440
thing, you know, and you when 
you're on tour, I, I always felt

602
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,480
that it was hard to see 
sometimes the world and the ways

603
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,360
that you want to see them, but 
you know, because you're 

604
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,680
working. 
However, it is such a cool thing

605
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,920
to be able to just like be on 
the road and just go and 

606
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,160
experience places that you've 
never been before. 

607
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,160
Try food you would have never 
tried. 

608
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,840
Those are some of the perks of 
definitely doing a tour. 

609
00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:00,240
And if you're in a position, if 
you're in a position and you're 

610
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,680
thinking about doing a tour or 
joining somebody on their tour, 

611
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:08,719
do it if you haven't done it 
before because it will be a life

612
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,080
changing experience for you. 
And I always advocate for that 

613
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:13,120
because I think it's so much 
fun. 

614
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,560
Yeah, so. 
Definitely my first tour, like 

615
00:34:17,639 --> 00:34:21,040
officials tour, right? 
You go on the road. 

616
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:22,679
This is the other thing that 
like they don't tell you, right?

617
00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:25,239
You go on the road, you got a 
job at home, right? 

618
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,360
Your, your job's probably not 
going to be there when you get 

619
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,760
back unless you got a job that 
is really cool. 

620
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,120
Which by the way, if you have 
hold on to that job because 

621
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,400
music's good, it'll pay, you 
know when it pays. 

622
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,360
But then when you come home, you
got nothing to do. 

623
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,000
You got to have that JOB. 
Yeah. 

624
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:46,080
So if you're lucky enough, 
right, like you will have people

625
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,159
around you, you know, maybe it's
your parents, maybe it's, you 

626
00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:53,000
know, like people who inspire 
you, but they will encourage you

627
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,840
like, hey, listen, do what you 
got to do and they'll support 

628
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:57,280
you. 
I was lucky enough to where my 

629
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:01,160
dad said go on the road. 
I got you, you know, I know like

630
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:02,920
you got your bills. 
Like we'll help you. 

631
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:08,200
Like they they saw touring as my
college education. 

632
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,120
Absolutely. 
College, I quit college for 

633
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,320
touring, by the way. 
That was like, that was my 

634
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,840
moment of like, I'm either going
to go to college and I'm going 

635
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,840
to be a music major or I'm going
to go on the road and I'm going 

636
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:25,880
to learn music life. 
And it really it had that not 

637
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,440
happen, I probably wouldn't be 
where I am now because like you 

638
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,040
hit the road and you learn the 
rules of the road and. 

639
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:38,800
Scary, scary moment, I think for
anybody who has to make that 

640
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:46,320
decision because you, you had a 
very like unusual situation. 

641
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:47,760
The most unusual. 
Yeah, right. 

642
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,400
You know, usually people like, 
get a job. 

643
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:54,000
Music's not going to go. 
Anywhere and even even, you 

644
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,920
know, like, like I think my 
father, who who had toured for 

645
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:02,760
most of his life, would probably
have said something very 

646
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,080
similar. 
I think it was probably mostly 

647
00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:07,960
my mother who would have been 
more hesitant. 

648
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:14,960
Yeah, yeah, moms are worried. 
Yes, and but that's that is so 

649
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,360
interesting too to hear because 
like I've I've heard also other 

650
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:22,000
countless stories where, you 
know, people who have gone to 

651
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,520
like some of even the best, you 
know, conservatories and they'll

652
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,960
they'll quit the Conservatory 
because they had an opportunity.

653
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,080
Yeah. 
And yeah, it's a gamble, but 

654
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,120
sometimes it pays off. 
This is true. 

655
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:37,880
And, you know, Yolo so. 
Yes exactly. 

656
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,600
I didn't realize it at the time,
but I was Yoloing my entire life

657
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,600
away. 
Yeah, but that's inspiring 

658
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,120
because it worked out. 
It worked out. 

659
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,720
And, you know, sometimes when 
you take chances that way, it 

660
00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:53,240
actually becomes very fruitful 
for you in the future. 

661
00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:56,720
And your best education was 
doing something like that 

662
00:36:56,720 --> 00:37:00,520
because you gained actual 
experience, not, yeah, 

663
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,520
theoretics experience. 
Exactly. 

664
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,920
Yeah, it's funny. 
Like you look back on where you 

665
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,360
were, right and you think like 
if 12 year old me picking up the

666
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,840
guitar for the first time, 
right, hearing, you know, Van 

667
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:15,280
Halen and his friend's, you 
know, garage that one day, you 

668
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,480
know, or Metallica or whatever 
it was that like inspired me it 

669
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,720
early on. 
It was, you know, saying like, 

670
00:37:21,720 --> 00:37:24,200
oh, you're actually going to be 
playing with some of these 

671
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,600
people in the future. 
You go, you're full of it. 

672
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,720
That's not that's not real, 
right, But like, that's the 

673
00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:34,400
gamble that you take, right? 
Like I have the theory, if you 

674
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,960
stay in it long enough, right, 
you'll you'll get to the places 

675
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,600
that you want, right? 
Like just keep doing it. 

676
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,480
Keep your head down, stay 
humble. 

677
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,800
You know, like I play music. 
I you know, I play guitar. 

678
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,120
I love guitar. 
You know, I love all types of 

679
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,800
guitar. 
That guitar has allowed me to, 

680
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,240
you know, to stand next to other
people who play guitar who I 

681
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,320
looked up to, you know, and that
is, that's worth its weight in 

682
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,160
gold because you learn from 
those people too, you know, not.

683
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:02,880
Guys humble. 
He played with slash man. 

684
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:09,720
Come on, dude, that's awesome. 
Oh man, dude, like can you can 

685
00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:12,600
you shed a light a little bit on
like some of your experiences 

686
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,480
with people that you idolize 
like was and you don't have to 

687
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:16,640
get too specific. 
I no. 

688
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,240
That's fine, I love telling this
like. 

689
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,960
What, what? 
What was it like for you did? 

690
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,480
Was it like, Oh my God, 
everything that I've always 

691
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,040
imagined came true, or was it 
like let down? 

692
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,880
What was it like? 
No, I so, you know, you always 

693
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:31,600
think like you're meeting your 
idols, right? 

694
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:32,640
Aren't they cool? 
Yeah. 

695
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,440
Like, are they going to be chill
or are they going to be like a 

696
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,400
Dick, you know? 
So I have found like every 

697
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,720
single person I've been able to 
work with, they're amazing, 

698
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,280
right? 
They're all incredible people. 

699
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,240
Like you mentioned Slash, right?
Slash is incredible. 

700
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,880
The first time I did something 
with Slash was in the city. 

701
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:53,160
It was for, it was for a tribute
actually a charity. 

702
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,240
He had been sober for, you know,
X amount of years. 

703
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,880
So they did a concert in town 
and we played it and you know, I

704
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:02,800
got to meet him on that, you 
know, very, very short, very 

705
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:07,560
short moment. 
Then a couple years later, they 

706
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,560
asked a friend of mine who's no 
longer with us, sadly, Wayne 

707
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:16,520
Kramer, brother Wayne Kramer 
from the MC5 to put together the

708
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,320
Jimi Hendrix U.S. 
Postal stamp tribute show at 

709
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,560
South by Southwest, which is in 
2014 I think. 

710
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,680
So Jimmy called Slash. 
Jimmy she's gone now. 

711
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,760
Wayne called Slash. 
Wayne called Slash and was like,

712
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:36,000
hey, do you want to do this? 
So the one of the artists that I

713
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,240
work with, Jesse Mallon, Wayne 
and Jesse are very close. 

714
00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:44,880
So Wayne asked Jesse and I to 
perform a Jimmy Hendrix song. 

715
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,320
So we're doing it's, it's a huge
event, right? 

716
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:53,040
Doug Pinnock from, you know, 
Kings X is performing. 

717
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,600
Really nice guy, by the way. 
Lovely, I heard. 

718
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:58,040
All the guys from Kings X were 
really. 

719
00:39:58,080 --> 00:39:58,480
Really. 
Yeah. 

720
00:39:58,560 --> 00:39:59,440
Very cool. 
Yeah. 

721
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,120
They were all hanging backstage.
Rusty Anderson from Paul 

722
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:04,880
McCartney's band, his guitar 
player. 

723
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:06,920
He was. 
He did a song was chilling. 

724
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,640
Robbie Krieger from the Doors 
was a part of this thing. 

725
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,160
So like, I'm there feeling like 
Forrest Gump. 

726
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:14,520
I'm like, what am I doing here 
with? 

727
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:16,680
Lots of chocolate. 
Right, all these legend. 

728
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,160
Yeah, my Lucille was the box of 
chocolates that day. 

729
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:24,120
So like, you know, like we were 
doing the rehearsals and at the 

730
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:25,760
rehearsal, Slash was there, you 
know, he's playing with 

731
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:27,440
everybody. 
He's sitting in with the whole 

732
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,520
band. 
So Wayne's had a had a thing. 

733
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:32,880
He was like, all right, so at 
the end we're going to all get 

734
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:36,520
on stage and play all along the 
Watchtower, which is an 

735
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:41,480
incredible, you know, and he was
like at the end of it all, we're

736
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,400
going to do the national anthem,
the Hendricks national anthem, 

737
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,080
so. 
And everybody burn your guitars.

738
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,760
Yeah, yeah. 
So hope you didn't bring your 

739
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:57,880
good 1 today. 
So, so we do the song, right? 

740
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,360
We're now at the performance, we
do the song and all on the 

741
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,600
watchtowers. 
Done big ending and everybody 

742
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:09,200
starts walking off stage and I 
remember I'm like, whoa, whoa, 

743
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:10,600
whoa, because Wayne's still on 
stage. 

744
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,280
Everyone's walking up stage. 
So I'm yelling at Slash and 

745
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,320
Robbie and Rusty. 
I'm like, no, guys, we got to 

746
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:19,920
play the I say Slash put your 
guitar back on Postal Service. 

747
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,200
So he puts it back on. 
They all put it back on and we 

748
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,520
all come together in the middle.
And I had like earlier that day,

749
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,920
I'd spent like a couple like, 
you know, hours sitting and 

750
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,120
learning the National anthem and
then trying to figure out a 

751
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,920
guitar mini version of it 
because I knew those guys with. 

752
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:39,440
Guitar Mini. 
Guitar mini. 

753
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,600
I love it. 
So I was I was like, I'm gonna 

754
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,280
play the guitar mini on this and
then all of these guys, you 

755
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,920
know, because that's for me. 
I'm a side band in my own mind, 

756
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,080
right? 
I like to be the support for 

757
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,480
people. 
So like, fuck, let's get Slash 

758
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,360
and yeah, Wayne, let's give them
the moment and I'll I'll give 

759
00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:00,120
that guitar many support. 
So we did it and it was a great 

760
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:01,400
thing. 
And at the end, you know, you 

761
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,480
laugh about it like everyone 
running off stage, you're like, 

762
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,360
no, you gotta play It's. 
That is incredible. 

763
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,160
Wow. 
I mean, there's, there's only a 

764
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:13,280
few moments like that you know 
that you'll have and so cherish 

765
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:14,760
every one of them. 
Exactly. 

766
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,160
Anytime it happens, remember one
thing, right? 

767
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,360
It's not about ego. 
It's not about anything. 

768
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,920
It's about like the humility of 
like you're here. 

769
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,320
Enjoy every moment of it, you 
know? 

770
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,040
Memories you'll make. 
Yeah, exactly. 

771
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,040
You know, and hopefully if 
somebody has a camera to capture

772
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,040
it, right? 
Yes, because if you don't have a

773
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,440
camera, it never happened. 
I mean, it's it's one of the one

774
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:38,480
of the few industries where what
what we do is evoke emotion and 

775
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,560
how you do it and how Jimi 
Hendrix did it. 

776
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,080
I mean, yeah, there was. 
That was a master class. 

777
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,960
He was trying to replicate the 
sound of WAR with his guitar, 

778
00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:53,960
which is a whole other thing. 
I mean, Vietnam was going on, 

779
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,800
yeah, that was crazy stuff. 
And there was a lot of political

780
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,120
motives and all this stuff. 
I mean, Watergate conspiracy. 

781
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,760
Hello. 
So that's yeah, I mean, this is 

782
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:05,720
Sullen Brand. 
It's all there. 

783
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:08,640
And so. 
But yeah, I mean, that's our 

784
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,680
voice. 
It's our voice as to who we are 

785
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:16,040
as people, what we represent, 
and it comes back to what you 

786
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:20,240
represent like and when we ever 
talk about like brands and stuff

787
00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:23,520
like that, that you've mentioned
on this podcast, it's just what 

788
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,680
do you stand for and who are who
are you? 

789
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:28,280
What are you about? 
What are? 

790
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,600
You saying with your music? 
What are you saying? 

791
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:36,080
Because, you know, that is 
something that I think is not 

792
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,480
shared enough sometimes. 
Yeah. 

793
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,960
And I don't know if it was just 
because of the rise of the 

794
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:46,680
Internet or if it was because of
just changes in culture, but I 

795
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:50,720
feel like in some cases there 
isn't an emphasis on stuff like 

796
00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:54,280
that where it becomes a little 
bit shallow. 

797
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:56,960
Commerce took over a little bit.
Yeah. 

798
00:43:57,240 --> 00:44:01,400
You know, did you ever see that 
thing with Rick Rubin and and 

799
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,240
him talking about art versus 
commerce? 

800
00:44:03,240 --> 00:44:05,240
I thought that was a very good 
quote. 

801
00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:07,520
Quite intuitive. 
And just to, you know, point out

802
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:11,600
to you guys, he says that if you
are making something for 

803
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:15,640
somebody else, essentially it's 
commerce versus making something

804
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:19,760
for yourself, which is real art.
If you don't like it then you 

805
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:21,920
know like why you doing it? 
Right, right, right, right. 

806
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,120
Exactly. 
So that is something that I've, 

807
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,600
I feel like I've lived by for a 
very long time. 

808
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,440
But it's nice to hear that from 
the, you know, one of the most 

809
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:36,800
found industry producers out 
there who, by the way, yeah, 

810
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,400
confesses to not playing 
instruments, not knowing what EQ

811
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:40,920
or compression does. 
He just. 

812
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,400
He's just ahead. 
He he just claims that he sits 

813
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:45,680
down and he listens and he just 
reacts. 

814
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,040
He's ears, man. 
He's got really great ears. 

815
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:49,680
That's amazing. 
And intuition, right? 

816
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:51,080
Like. 
I think that's what it. 

817
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,360
Is yeah, you know, his intuition
is incredible, like the what 

818
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,120
he's done with all the artists 
he's worked with. 

819
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,240
And I love his idea, his studio,
Shangri-La, right? 

820
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,360
I have a couple of engineers 
that I've worked with that have 

821
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,320
worked there. 
I haven't had the pleasure yet, 

822
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,680
but everything is blank on the 
walls. 

823
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:06,960
It's all white. 
Whoa. 

824
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:11,440
With the idea that like there's 
nothing that will taint the 

825
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,560
inspiration, right? 
Or that will steer the 

826
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,000
inspiration. 
So like, you have a blank 

827
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,120
canvas. 
Create whatever you want to 

828
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,880
create, you know. 
Note on studio design. 

829
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:26,920
Yeah, Aesthetics on how the 
artists perceive their world. 

830
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:28,200
Right. 
And very cool. 

831
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,000
Yeah, there's something you, I 
wanted to go back to that you 

832
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:35,120
said you were talking about like
it's about the emotion of what 

833
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:36,240
you play, right? 
Yeah. 

834
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:39,320
I think that what's been lost is
that a lot of people don't 

835
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,080
remember the Beethoven quote, 
right? 

836
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:44,880
Which is, I don't care if you 
play the right notes. 

837
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:48,760
It's just, did you have passion 
while you were playing them? 

838
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,000
Yeah, right. 
I think that's the, you know, 

839
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:52,480
that's the thing. 
Mess up. 

840
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,480
It's fine, you know. 
Or or the just this even like 

841
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,320
you're talking about, you know, 
classical composers. 

842
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:03,640
But like people like Bach, they 
knew they knew people like had 

843
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,240
to interpret what they wrote on 
the page too. 

844
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,960
So part of me making music in 
those times, some people they 

845
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,320
look at the page and like, this 
is exactly how he meant it. 

846
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:18,080
And I was like, yes, but also 
like, don't be so bland about 

847
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,320
it, You know, like putting a 
little your flair. 

848
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:21,520
I'm sure Bach would have been 
like. 

849
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:28,160
Yeah, don't bring it to life. 
I can put it in a MIDI and have 

850
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,480
it do whatever I want. 
Yeah, Bach would have looked at 

851
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:31,800
this. 
It would have been like, this is

852
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:36,200
lifeless, you know, what are we 
doing with this MIDI thing like 

853
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,240
zeros and ones? 
How about ink and paper? 

854
00:46:40,240 --> 00:46:44,320
You know, so that is so true. 
And it's, I think that's just a 

855
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,720
beautiful thing that, you know, 
we can, we can still adapt from 

856
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:53,520
all these old, you know, times 
of ways of thinking and still 

857
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:57,640
there is, you know, value that 
is universal. 

858
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:02,560
I mean, like, I was just 
watching stuff about, you know, 

859
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,440
some of the oldest parts of 
human history. 

860
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:09,280
And we were making music before 
we actually knew how to talk. 

861
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,000
Yeah, I mean. 
You know, it was just like beat,

862
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:17,120
you know, your chest and beat, 
you know, or, or literally make 

863
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,640
rocks like, you know, early form
rock music. 

864
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,800
You know, you just beat them 
together. 

865
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,240
I mean like like even in war we 
were using. 

866
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:31,520
The war drums. 
As giving orders to soldiers on 

867
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:33,600
the battlefield, that's why they
would always go for, you know, 

868
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,280
the little drummer boy 1st and 
you got to take. 

869
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:36,840
Him. 
Out. 

870
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:38,320
Yeah, take him out for Chaos 
you. 

871
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:40,720
Know who's giving the orders 
around here? 

872
00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:42,880
Where's the drummer? 
It it was like. 

873
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,640
The drummer's the backbeat of 
every band, man backbeat the 

874
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,280
backbone. 
Backbone. 

875
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,720
Yeah, yeah, you take out the 
spine and you're just. 

876
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,680
So as we are sort of like 
wrapping up here, I just want 

877
00:47:56,720 --> 00:48:03,040
to, you know, ask, you know, 
what would you say to somebody 

878
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,760
who's getting into, let's say, 
trying to trying to get where 

879
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:13,040
you are, you know, like where, 
where do you think somebody, 

880
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:17,000
let's say in the beginning, 
middle or maybe they're further 

881
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,320
down the road? 
Do you have any perspective that

882
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:23,320
helped you as you were going 
down your path that you'd like 

883
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:24,720
to share? 
Yeah. 

884
00:48:24,720 --> 00:48:26,640
Let me think about that for a 
second. 

885
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:33,640
I, I would say that an important
aspect is you want to first 

886
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:34,920
believe in what you're doing, 
right? 

887
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,120
Like we said, like you have to 
have a passion for it. 

888
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,160
If you have no passion for it, 
then find something that you 

889
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,160
have a passion for. 
So that that's the first thing 

890
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,480
you're starting out. 
Make sure you that it's your 

891
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:48,040
passion, right, because that's 
going to drive the, the fire 

892
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:49,600
through you for your entire 
career. 

893
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:53,440
All right, Like I wake up every 
morning and I'm still excited to

894
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:55,600
play music. 
I'm so excited to create because

895
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:57,920
you're always finding something 
new. 

896
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,040
You know, there's always 
something undiscovered every 

897
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,360
day, a new beat, a new band, a 
new melody. 

898
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,360
And you know, or you're looking 
at it a little differently. 

899
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:08,440
Say you're you're now you're a 
little bit further in your 

900
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:13,160
career and you're, you know, the
insights that I found were that 

901
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,960
like, you know, we talked about 
it earlier, putting yourself in 

902
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,600
a room with people who are 
better than you to learn from 

903
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:23,840
and to inspire you to greatness 
and to higher heights, right. 

904
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:28,360
And then being able to like you 
get to a place to where you play

905
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,760
with the people that you that 
you have been inspired, you 

906
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,920
know, by an early age. 
It's keeping that humility, man.

907
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:39,760
Like you got like if you show up
and you're like, I'm the best, 

908
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,720
no one is better than me, right?
You're going to close a lot of 

909
00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:46,520
doors in your face because like,
yeah, you, you like a good 

910
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:48,320
example. 
Jaco Pistores, right? 

911
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:53,400
Jaco was self-proclaimed I'm the
best bass player of all time. 

912
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,880
Now, he wasn't wrong. 
He was, in my opinion, probably 

913
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:58,360
the best bass player of all 
time. 

914
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:03,040
You know, if for bass playing, 
right, it's all, it's all 

915
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,080
relative to style and choice and
all of those things, right? 

916
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,480
But he was also his own worst 
enemy. 

917
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,960
You know, he got in his own way 
because of with that ego came 

918
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:18,240
like the the lack of realization
that it was destroying the 

919
00:50:18,240 --> 00:50:20,680
things around him and the people
around him because nobody wanted

920
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:24,160
to deal with it. 
You know, like, so I feel like 

921
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,560
keep the ego out right. 
You know, if you are in 

922
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,080
Buddhism, like that's going to 
help you a lot, you know, or at 

923
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:34,280
least like getting rid of the 
the mentality that I'm the best 

924
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:39,080
thing since sliced bread, you 
know, just show up, you know, do

925
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:40,560
the work right. 
Homework. 

926
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,920
Hey, when you show up to a 
rehearsal, rehearsal is not 

927
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:48,320
about learning the song. 
Rehearsal is about doing it with

928
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:50,520
the people around you. 
Making it gel. 

929
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:52,960
Yeah, making it gel exactly. 
Great, Great. 

930
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,320
So yeah, like, do your homework.
You know, those are the things. 

931
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,840
I think it's just a work ethic 
that like you show up, it's 

932
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:02,200
still the job at the end of the 
day, right? 

933
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:05,280
Like there's days, you know, 
that I have where I'm just like,

934
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:10,080
OK, I have to learn X amount of 
songs for this show I'm doing, 

935
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:14,040
you know, maybe it's 30 songs 
for a show with all these guest 

936
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,200
singers. 
And I'm the bandleader. 

937
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,880
And so I have to know 
everybody's part because I'm the

938
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:21,040
guy going like, oh, that's not 
right. 

939
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:23,840
Or, you know, like, so like 
showing up and doing your 

940
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:28,000
homework and doing the work and 
being the most prepared person 

941
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:30,480
in the room is going to allow 
you the advantage of going like,

942
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:35,360
well, you know, like that, you 
know, that didn't seem right. 

943
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,000
You know, like, and obviously 
like don't tell people they 

944
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:40,080
suck. 
You know, like I've had moments 

945
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,560
where I have and they bit me and
bit me and, you know. 

946
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,160
Have some social cue awareness. 
Yeah, exactly. 

947
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:47,800
Yeah. 
Well, there might be a little 

948
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:51,360
autism in all of us, but, you 
know, but, you know, we might 

949
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:52,800
all be on the spectrum a little 
bit. 

950
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:57,480
But we're musicians, so we're, 
we're, we're very, you know. 

951
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:02,720
No, it's a beautiful message. 
It's, it's, it's very much put 

952
00:52:02,720 --> 00:52:06,920
your best foot forward and in, 
in, in, in so many of those 

953
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:11,760
statements that you made, I feel
as though when you're walking 

954
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:17,800
into a room and you don't assume
and you are just trying to do 

955
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:22,920
what's best for and you know, my
father would always do this. 

956
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,800
You got to do what, what, what's
best for this. 

957
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,680
He was referring to the song, 
the vibe, the song, the vibe and

958
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:31,680
what what's, what is it? 
Song is king. 

959
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:35,680
You are, you are, you are a 
servant to that the. 

960
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:38,360
Ethereal So if you're playing in
a metal band and you're playing 

961
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:40,800
country licks, you're probably 
not doing the right thing for 

962
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:42,320
the song, right? 
You know? 

963
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:46,040
And vice versa, you know. 
Unless it's some of that 

964
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:47,560
southern metal that. 
Yeah, that's cool. 

965
00:52:47,720 --> 00:52:48,920
Yeah. 
Then then you know, just make 

966
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:50,080
sure you know what genres you're
doing. 

967
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:51,480
Yeah. 
Yeah, exactly right, John. 

968
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:54,840
So black metal, OK. 
Yeah, it's OK, right, You know. 

969
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,480
Oh. 
Man, well, this has been such an

970
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:00,920
enlightening conversation. 
Derek, thank you so much for 

971
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:02,720
being on the Metal Mastermind 
podcast. 

972
00:53:02,720 --> 00:53:06,640
And as we always say here on 
Metal Mastermind is to create 

973
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:07,160
your phone.