Hello, mate, hello again. How are you doing?
I'm. All right, mate, how are you?
Yeah, very good. Thanks.
Very good. Good.
This is is this the second time we've had a guest that's
actually in the room with us? The other one was Sean, wasn't
it? We must have had somebody else.
Oh no, we are. But it was the old.
Yeah, it was. Yeah.
Studio. The old studio, not the new
studio. New studio.
OK, today we've got Oren. Hey, guys.
Oren, how are you mate? I'm good.
Good, yeah. We told everybody this was
happening because we talked about the app.
Nice. It's incredible.
We'll talk about it in a bit, but do you want to tell
everybody just a little bit about you?
Yeah, Yeah. And your family and obviously
living in Australia now. Yeah.
Just give us a rundown of you and your life and how you ended
up where you. Are my life all right?
Have we got a couple of hours? Go for it.
Yeah. Yeah.
Fill your boots. So English.
We live in Australia, originally from Bury St Edmunds.
Do you know Barry? I know it.
Yeah, Yeah. Britain's floral Town, smallest
pub in the world or I used to someone's made a small one, but
yeah, so I claimed fame, great childhood, went to Bath, you
needed mechanical engineering, went into the corporate world
and then after a few years in the corporate world I knew that
it's just not my game and set up a football company up north near
Preston. Learnt a lot of valuable lessons
in business and and life along the way.
And then about eight years ago, I went down to London at an
event, a personal development event, and I bumped into this
girl. OK.
Yeah, I knew her. I just had that.
There was like, I'm. I swear I knew her from
somewhere. And like this, this event, you
spend like every 15 minutes, you would do an exercise, get up, go
and meet a new partner, do an exercise, get up and meet.
So I essentially stalked her. Every time we would get up, I
might get another 10 yards closer to her.
An event. Yeah.
And but it paid off.
It sounds like exercise, swinging.
It's like, yeah, we'll do 15 minutes.
I want that one. Yeah.
Hey, we should all do it, not other people.
Yeah. Anyway, we, we partnered for
this exercise and and that was it.
We just had an incredible time and then came to the end of the
weekend. I'm like, ah, could I have your
number? And she's like, you can, but I'm
going back to Australia tomorrow.
All right, OK, what what we're going to do about this?
And it's like, I would just keep talking.
She's coming to the end of her two year visa working in the in
the UK. And she went back to ours and it
was December and I was messaging her saying how cold it was in
England at the time. And she's like, oh, it's really
hot in Melbourne. I'm like, oh, I'll come out for
Christmas and she's like gone then.
And she didn't realise at the time how reckless I was.
I was going to say. Yeah.
Was she like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not thinking you like.
Completely so I booked my flights.
I'm at the airport. What?
I flew out on Christmas Day and she had to come pick me up from
the airport. She came, took me back to her
mum's place and then her family's there and like who's
this? And he's like, this is Oren,
he's staying for the week. And that was it.
And we just had the most incredible we in Melbourne, like
fell madly in love and everything came back to the UK,
like lived a bit of it, like a digital nomad life and then
moved out to Dubai to Co founder tech company out there back in
2018. And we're just living the dream.
You know, like young love, you can do whatever you want, no
responsibility and everything. Then COVID here and we had three
little kids, so it was like a bit of a change of pace.
Beckham was born first week of lockdown in an empty, not a
hotel, in an empty hospital. And then we had Harper and Indy
twin girls in December 2020. And yeah, then it started to
change. Then we went from like two of us
doing whatever to three and like having one kid is hard, having
three kids really hard. Immediately went there in Niku
for ages, got out of there, got immediately out to Australia and
we were there and to be fair, for the first year in ounces,
we're kind of living the dream pretty close to the beach, hot
wife, 3 kids, like working remotely from the company in
Dubai, flying back every three months, taking Beckham with me.
It's like this is pretty cool. And then it was the 22nd of
December 2021, no 2022, the day after Indy's first birthday, she
had a seizure and at the time, like my wife saw it, so she was
shaken up. I was kids get sick all the
time. Like classic dad, classic dad.
I'm sick to that I. Should be fine.
Yeah, she'll be. Fine, it's like, right, I'll
take her to the to like the Children's Hospital.
And we went and did the thing and they were like, oh, she
probably had a temperature, fobbed me off like gas lit me.
But at the time I didn't really care.
And I've got the selfie of me and Indy outside like just
before Christmas. I'll send a picture in the
grandparents WhatsApp chat to keep them entertained over
Christmas and just look back at that photo because that I think
was the first day of a new life for us, a life we weren't ready
for in any way, shape or form. Over the next 12 months, Indy
went from being what I would say medically interesting to now
that's seriously something up with this child.
And it didn't matter what we did, it didn't matter how hard I
tried or how hard we advocated, we weren't getting anywhere.
Everyone kept telling us early intervention was key, but it
didn't matter what we did, no one was doing anything for and
we were going around from GP to paediatrician, neurologist,
we're just doing everything. Let's remember back in, it's
about the March time thinking fuck, I've just spent another
$400.00 at this neurologist and we're nowhere.
But what's worse is we've put a 2 year old girl through
everything. Like she went under for a brain
MRIECG blood tests, like blood tests of kids with diet, like
that's traumatic. Like she's done everything like
surely we can do something about this.
And that's where we kind of put our tech background to work and
started doing something about it.
I gave myself a few days to be angry because I needed to be
pretty angry at the time, and then then got to work and put
something together to help change the game for us.
And, and it did. And like, since we did that,
since we built what we built, the journeys continued to
unfold. Every day is like a massive,
massive challenge. And we've gone from when she was
2, she was a 2 year old with global developmental delays,
whatever that label was at the time to like.
And she could have gone in any direction from that point.
She's gone in a very specific direction.
And it's like why we're here now?
And like the last two years have been the hardest thing I've ever
done. Like nothing even comes close.
We're we're, we're, we're in it there.
She's got a great place at a special school now, early
education programme, which is pretty cool.
My wife is in her third year studying with Wiffery, so she's
like full time on call, which is pretty intense.
Beckham's just started prep. Harper's somewhere in the middle
between India and Beckham. And yeah, we're just in a new
life now, but I, I don't even know how to put it into words.
It's just not what we thought. It's not what we planned for.
And we're we're just trying to find a way at the moment.
Yeah, you, you you've had quite a unique situation where you've
like the whole digital no bad thing and you kind of free
spirits. The fact that you just up and
fucked off to Australia like that is something most people
won't do because most people like the security and the kind
of they know what's happening the next day.
And so you've gone from it's, it's difficult for anybody that
kind of ends up in a situation where you know the kids autistic
or ADHD or whatever it is. But imagine for Someone Like
You, that was like, holy shit different.
Yeah, because your life now isn't.
You can just go and do whatever you want and travel the world.
You've now you've got to. You're within a range of kid.
It's not even close to do whatever you like.
It's full time military operation, project management
like planning, project management, planning the day,
planning the weekend. Like I'm back in the UK this
week. We were last here three years
ago and we came. So Ali and I got married in
secret on the beach in Melbourne.
And like I always wait my, my parents like zoomed in.
We gave them like a 24 hour warning.
They zoomed in and I promise you when we get back to England,
we'll get married again in our like local church and I'll bring
the kids and we'll all get christened and we don't like and
we got married and christened all together.
We had like a mad party and it was just so cool.
That was three years ago. And I remember while we were
back, we went to one of the local parks where I used to play
football and it's had like this really long grass.
And there was just this moment that I just saw Indy was out on
her own, lying in the middle of this field, just in this long
grass. And I just watched her for a
minute. And I went back to Ali and said,
like, there's something going on here.
Like there's something going on. And I look back now that three
years ago was the last kind of episode of our lives where we
were normal. And we haven't been back in
three years, which I hate because I all my family and
friends are here and they like, they miss us so much and we want
to be back. But we can just about do an hour
on the plane to the Gold Coast with like 8 tubs of Pringles.
I can't bring Indy halfway around the world all the way
around the world. I So coming over here was like a
massive, massive deal. If I bring Beckham and Harper
with me. Ali, do you think you'll get
through a week with Indy on your own and get a bit of negotiation
to make it happen? And called in a lot of favours.
But like, yeah, to go from back then, we would just fly
everywhere. We didn't even think about it.
Like we were, we were irresponsible, like.
Whatever you can be. Yeah, we can be.
Now I'm like I. Mean it's hard enough with with
neurotypical kids, never mind when you're a diverse kid.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, your stress levels will go up.
But yeah, it's a common theme about travel holidays, all the
things that you even just going from here to Spain, you know,
it's a normal 2 and a bit hour flight and yet you've got a
neurodiverse kid. You're just panicking and
stressing out about going through the airport security and
then how you keep them entertained or how you manage
their expectations on the flight itself.
Then you start thinking about if you overthink it, what other
people thinking, if there is a meltdown or something like that
before you've actually got to your destination.
You're you're definitely ready for a holiday, but it's not
going to be the holiday that you would have had previously.
Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's, it's because of that
whole fear that like, even when we were planning it, it was
like, OK, let's let's get a plane to Scotland because it's
like quick, let's just test the waters, whatever the. 15
minutes. Yeah, on a plane.
Let's just go up there and then literally turn around and come
back on another plane just so we know we can hack it.
OK, fine. We we enjoyed that.
Great. Now we but we still haven't, we
still haven't managed to do it because it just scares the shit
out of us. But yeah, I mean from Australia.
I mean, that just ain't happening, is it?
Nah, no, Nah not. Not for a while.
I don't know. They they do a direct flight
from Perth now to London. It's like 17 hours or something.
I'm like, shit, it's five hours to get from Melbourne to Perth.
Yeah, that's not going to happen.
So. Yeah, I've got to ask this
question just because of the type of person that you seem
like you are. When you said to your parents
here's 24 hour notice to us getting married, were they
surprised or were they just like, oh, that's that?
Yeah, that's Orin. They were like, yeah, that's all
right. Disappointed.
Like they wanted to be there. Yeah, they.
But they weren't massively surprised.
No, no, I didn't think they would.
Yeah, yeah, there's not much that surprises them any anymore.
OK. So you you've obviously you've
created an app around the struggles that you were kind of
having yourself. Before we get to that, what is
healthcare like in Australia compared to the UK?
Yeah, so this is, this is funny. So I've gone through everything.
So like grown up round the NHS and like, so that was how I
assume that's how healthcare was like free, not great, but free.
And then I moved out to Dubai and it was like exceptional,
very, very expensive. So like opposite ends of the
spectrum. Then we've gone to Australia and
it's like halfway in the middle, like so Medicare kicks in and so
you go for an appointment, whether it's your GP or
paediatrician and they're like Medicare pay for some of this,
like how much you know, they'll give you a bit of a rebate.
So you go like you, any appointment you go to, you're,
you're pretty blind as to how much it's actually going to
cost. So it's like this weird halfway
house and then you dip into the private sector, which is like
any private sector, like same as here.
But then over in ounces, we have NDIS, the disability insurance
team, which is going through its own reforms and problems like
Hot Topic at the moment in ounces.
And it's it's an incredible sum of money.
They're put behind it, horrifically managed.
Like the wastage is disgusting, but as someone coming from
England, I'm like, if you're going to have a disabled child
anywhere in the world, go to Australia.
Today. Oh, really?
Yeah, it's like it's tough, it's not great, but compared with
anywhere else in the world, like the support you can get is, is
next level. So we like every now and again
we talk about, hey, maybe we'll move back to the UK because like
my family would be really, really hands on and you know how
valuable that that is. But like, she wouldn't get half
the stuff over here. So yeah, it's, it's one of them.
Like there's a lots of things wrong with it, but it's as good
as anywhere there's more. Right than wrong.
Yeah, there is. It's frustrating for me because
I'm like in business and a mathematician.
I can do the numbers. I know how much waste,
especially like with the app or whatever, like we, we've just
put in our change of circumstances, which like a bit
of an appeal against the funding that you're getting.
And all of our therapists use the app to write their reports.
I'm like our behaviour support therapist gets paid $8000 to
write a report. Holy shit.
Our app could have done her first draft in 2 minutes.
Like imagine if you actually just embrace the technology out
there. Like there's enough money there
for everyone. There's enough money for the
professionals that need it to be insanely good at their jobs and
the people that need the support to get what they need.
It's never going to happen with the amount of waste.
Yeah, without spending all that money on the bureaucracy of.
It bureaucracy and just like the complete misunderstanding, like
every time they do an announcement, you watch it and
like you've done this in the UK, you watch them and you're like,
OK, I can see there's well meaning there, potentially
ulterior motives. I can see there's well meaning
there. But I can also see there is zero
lived in experience in your decision making.
And unless you've lived this, you absolutely have no idea.
Like if I said to you like you've got two kids, I've got
three. You've got no idea what it's
like to have three kids. You do like if I say, oh, you've
got no idea what it's like to play football at a good level,
but you've played rugby like you do if I say you've got no idea
what it's like to be a parent of a disabled child.
And you, you don't have one. You haven't got a fucking.
Clue no. And if you don't have a clue,
how can you make the right? Decisions.
No, you can't. No.
And they're not like small decisions, they're decisions
that impact the lives of hundreds of thousands, if not
millions of people. You think like, it's not fucking
hard. Just make sure the people in
charge have got half an idea of what's actually going on and
there's probably enough money in there to sort it out.
But anyway. So you had a, you had a, you had
a moment then where I mean, what was the moment that goes, do you
know what I'm, I'm sick and tired of this.
I'm going to produce an app and out of necessity I guess.
Yeah, well, I never, I didn't. We didn't set out to build an
app. Essentially after my few days of
being angry, I was like what's the what's the actual problem
here? If I can boil it down to the
problem, maybe I can solve. It you're such an.
Entrepreneur, it's like absolute like project management going
back to it. So I was like, oh, this is a, a
data and communications problem. Like let's turn it into
something really dull and boring.
Like as a parent, when you need to advocate for your child, you
have to recall months if not years of data off the top of
your head. And we're the best one in the
world. Like there's memory recall
issues, sleep deprivation. If it's one parent, you've at
best got half of the data set. And like we're really cold about
it. You create a really dirty
incomplete data set and then you hand that dirty incomplete data
over to a well meaning healthcare professional who have
got their own philtres of time pressure.
Parents telling stories like OK, crapping complete data through
philtres. Oh no wonder we're not getting
out the other side what we need, right?
What if I can change that? What if I got all of the data
and then pass it through no philtres and got to them.
So I looked at like went into like legal mode first, like who
owns all the the health data around my child?
I own it. Why don't I?
Why haven't I got it? Like lives in all these silos of
the healthcare system like over in AUS.
So like your G PS in one part, the hospital's in another part.
Your your cardiologist is in another part.
I legally own it. So I went to all and said, can I
have all my data and they sent it all over.
This is only like this isn't the whole picture.
Like it might be different for like different things.
Like if we were looking at cancer or something like, and
you could do plot it with blood test alone or Mris or whatever.
Like when you talk about neurodiversity, like it's not
just the blood test, it's everything.
So like what, where, where, where's the missing data?
Like, well, it's the stuff that my wife and I have seen.
It's the observations, it's the photos, it's the videos, it's
the conversations we've had. It's the nursery incident
reports. So I took all of that messy
unstructured data and then this is in the early 8 days of
ChatGPT. Like a bit of a tech background,
I can figure this out. All of that mess normalised it
and turned it into a single timeline of truth for my
daughter that mapped out from observation #1 to today.
Every test, every incident report, every observation, every
photo and video, all of those different angles and turned it
into something that made sense. And we booked a session with a
new paediatrician. I thought, right, I'm going to
do something different this time.
We went in, we sat down and all, all appointments start the same
like so Blase, like what's up with Indy?
Like she scraped her knee or something.
And I, I knew what was going to happen because my wife started
talking. I thought there's another
$400.00 about to go down the drain here and like we've got
half an hour, she's going to word vomit for 25 minutes of it
to hope it lands and we'll be nowhere.
So I said don't be rude, like stop and just handed A2 page
summary report to the paediatrician and it was that
entire timeline. But it was written in language
and structure that the healthcare industry understands
and respects, with clear links to where source documentation
lived underneath it. I'm a mathematician at heart,
like audit trails, finance, that's my thing.
And she took a few minutes to skim all the way down it.
And then she looked up at us and said, OK, cool, I've got a plan.
Like, like with for the first time in a like over a year, we
felt seen, we felt validated. We felt like all of those
things. And then she talked us through
her plan. And we're like, oh shit, like we
might actually go somewhere with this.
And then as she pointed us to all the different parts, that's
what the paediatrician does, right?
They're the quarterback. They're not doing anything, but
they're the playmaker 100%. As she went into like into
genetics, into NDIS, into education, special needs
education, cardiology, like all of the things, we had the power
because we had all this data every day.
Like every day the data grows. Like, the child does something
every single day. So this data kept growing.
And now we have this tool that allowed us to effectively
advocate for her and communicate to people whether it was OK,
here's a paediatrician or, OK, we're taking her to a new school
and they want to know how best to, like, manage meltdowns and
regulation or we want to keep our family up to speed.
But we're absolutely spent. Like, take this and put it into
language. I can Chuck in the WhatsApp chat
with my mum and I. All of a sudden, everyone was on
the same page. And it's crazy.
Once everyone's on the same page, things can start to move
forward in the right direction. And like I say, it changed the
game for us. We got to a point where we were
like, this is the rest of our lives now.
Like Indy's going to be with us for the rest of our lives.
If I'm lucky. She's not always going to be in
my bed like that. That's that's the dream at the
moment. But she's going to be there.
And yeah, that's not the life we planned, but we've got half a
chance. And that was that was it.
So we didn't set out to build an app.
And after that, I knew I wanted to go back to day zero building
a company because like working remotely from Dubai with three
kids, especially a neuro divergent child was impossible.
So it's like the only I'm not going to be able to sustain a
job. No one's going to give me a job
because I can't do the hours because I'm needed like parent,
like being a parent carer is more than a full time job on its
own. It's like if I start a company
of my own, I'll have that flexibility to do it and joined
a tech accelerator called Antler.
Essentially they look for like day zero ideas.
People want that want to solve big global problems and they
match you with a Co founder that's going to vibe with you.
So I started the accelerator and I actually went into it because
I wanted to build a fractional property ownership like
blockchain products. OK, like that's where I joined.
And then we got into the week 1 and they were like what are the
big problems in the world that you like want us actually solve?
Like this is a problem. I know it's an intense problem.
I just don't know how big it is. I will go and find out how.
Because for you emotionally you you feel like it's a big
problem, but you don't actually know objectively how big the
problem. Is 100% because no one talks.
About it, yeah, of course they. Don't like so we like.
Did some research Like what like one in 10 parents go through
this, you know, fuck, that's a massive how why isn't anyone
talking about this? And so Jeff, my Co founder, him
and I, over the space of a couple of weeks, we interviewed
over 100 parents in ounces in the UK, like 100 episodes of us
breaking down on Zoom calls like hearing stories, everything like
everyone was saying the same thing.
We feel gaslit, we feel disempowered, you know, like,
but it doesn't actually need to be this way.
So that's where we set out. Like, what if we build an app?
What if we build a copilot to help parents navigate this
journey, protect their mental health?
And essentially, like we say, you talk and let Indy take care
of the rest. Like, pull out all the
documentation together, pull your thoughts together.
You just talk in natural language.
Do whatever you need to do and indie will do everything else
for you. And indie's the app by the.
Way. Oh yeah.
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, we just made that
clear. The app is named after your
daughter. Yeah, that was an accident.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were like, it was, it started
out as Project Indie because it needed the project name.
And then we're like, oh, just call the app indie.
And we'll change it. We'll.
Change it later and then we got around to changing it later and
like, oh bollocks, we're locked. In yeah, no, but it's, it's a
fairpoint what you say, because some like one of the things is
me personally, sometimes you feel there's a lack of control
when I, when we're speaking to professionals, you, you know,
whoever the case may be with, I've got a kind of six month
catch up with this speech and language therapist, whoever it
is, it's that kind of lack of control.
And I always feel that I'm on the back foot because there's so
much data, so much information that I, I'm like, all right, I
mustn't forget this. You need to, yeah, I've got to
get this across. I've got to get this across.
And it's literally a tiny, tiny window that you've got.
And to be able to have something where I can go, everything is
contained in one place. And it evolves as my daughter
Lydia grows. It doesn't stay there.
We just keep adding to it and adding to it.
And it will help me through that process.
And as you say, get straight to the point.
And how do you like in that moment, how do you perform and
what's the lived in experience when you're on the back foot?
Yeah. And not just for that, like for
your whole life. Every second you're awake and
most of the time when you're asleep, you're on the back foot.
Like how does that feel? It's like you say, it's being a
project manager but without having the skills to be a
project manager. Here you go, you've got a neuro
diverse disabled. And the stakes are so much
higher. Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
It's not like, yeah, it doesn't matter if I don't deal with
this. No, no, it absolutely matters.
It's your flesh and blood, Yeah. And the point as well when you
said about obviously people feeling gaslit, it's not, it's
not that all healthcare professionals are out there
actually gaslighting people, but it's that feeling of being
gaslit. Some probably are gaslit
gaslighting people. But again, it's because it's
because on both sides, even on the healthcare side, they
haven't got all the data, particularly the stuff from the
parent themselves, like the even the feelings they have.
Like I've got a feeling something like my wife Mitch,
like she's just got this sixth sense that a lot of mums seem to
have. And she just knows when
something's up with him. That is a data point.
Yeah. That in itself is a data point.
And, you know, healthcare professional can't have that
data point. And these things are things you
forget as well. These are, you know.
And I can imagine from a healthcare professional in like
in the UK and it it must be the same in Australia and you know,
the US, whatever the case may be.
Yeah, I've got 1/2 an hour window now with my next patient
and like you said that I know what's going to happen.
The 1st 20 minutes of it is going to be emotional stories
from the parents. Please believe me, Please
believe me. These are the stories and I'll
try and back it up where they're kind of going.
I I read, I've heard all these stories a million times before.
Just just give me the key facts so I can move on.
Yeah. And the irony that we're sitting
around here is dads like I, I struggle in those homes.
I'm quite strong, confident person, yeah fuck if I struggle
once. What's everyone else doing?
And like, it's hard for anyone as an emotional parent to
advocate for their kids, but especially mums.
Like there's a lot of data around female advocacy for
themselves in the healthcare sector is like the gender gap is
huge. Like imagine if you can't
advocate for yourself, what chance have you got advocating
for your child? And it doesn't matter how hard
you fight. Like fighting isn't the thing.
Like advocation is like around effective communication.
And it's it's hard and it shouldn't be this hard.
That's the frustrating bit. There's some things that like
just aren't worth battling. Like what causes it?
I don't give a shit. It's not going to change
anything like that, but the lived in experience doesn't need
to be this hard. There are things that could
change it. And using AI, we mean it's
crazy, like you said, like one in 10 families is, is, is going
down the same issues daily that we're the three of us and many
people are going through at the moment.
But we use AI and everything. I mean, we, we talk about
running and the runner app. It's, it's AI data in there.
And we use it for things like this.
But then when it comes to things like really, really important,
like our children, it's crazy that this hasn't been maximised
yet. It is I understand why, like the
major bit, the the the most crucial bit, and we learned this
like off the bat when we were starting to build out the very
like the very first version of the app was basic like like it
was like do we do like old school like symptom tracker type
thing? And what we learned after, like
putting stuff in front of a whole load of mums is if we
build trust, we get the data. If we get the data, we can do
something with it. So it's all about building
trust. And that's where we looked at
conversational AI, like talking. It's like the fastest way to
build trust is through natural conversation.
So that's that's where we start. It's like the power in AI has
been there and continues to be there, but when people in the
healthcare sector or people without that living experience
have tried to solve this before, they haven't understood the
fundamental that you have to have consumer grade UI and UX
like the design and you have to actively look to build trust.
So if you don't do that, it doesn't matter how good the
technology is behind it, you're not going to get the data, so
you're not going to be able to do anything with it.
So that's why it's not just how powerful the AI is, it's the
thinking around how you package it up to make it powerful and
think. That's that's why what we've
done has landed so well 'cause we can build that trust on the
parent side and then it's our job through the brand and
everything else to build the trust out on the healthcare
professional side. If we can be the trust layer
between the village, then everyone can just do what
they're there to do. Like the Village of Care, the
your paediatricians, your Otis, your speeches, they're so, so
talented. They just need people to get all
the crap out of their way so they can just worry about the
kid. And same with the parents, get
all the crap out of their way and just let the parent be an
exceptional parent for a while. But the unfortunately the system
doesn't allow that. But we believe now that
technology has changed, that the parents can drive change with
technology, and that's what we're seeing happening.
So, so with the app then I can go down the route of right.
I've got, you know, 101 different letters.
I've come in from paediatrician, speech and language, you know,
other bodies as well. I now have, rather than a
massive ring binder where things get taken out, I have a ring
binder. We have a ring binder, but
sometimes we take things out because we have to scan them to
send to somebody else. Then we lose them and we, oh,
it's not in the ring binder, who's got it?
And we've got to go through everything to try and find it.
So now we have an opportunity where everything can be kept in
one place. But also at the same time it
will have things like with Lydia for instance, her sleep is very,
very hit and miss. Am I then able to go into the
app and go, just want to update today she went to bed at 10:00
PM, woke up at 1:00 AM, didn't go back to sleep till 6:00 AM.
And that will keep a track and start to build a picture.
So if I need to go back, what happened last week, what why was
she so upset or grouchy? I can go into the app and and
bring up the data and goes, oh this makes sense.
She didn't have sleep on these particular days, which led to
something else which may have like affected school or
something, or she was teething on this day.
Oh, we forgot about that. Yeah, she was teething.
That's why she's not eating and and grouchy.
Yeah. So you have one family account
between you and your partner or any like have several partners.
It doesn't really matter. You have one private
conversation thread here. So not searching through tabs
like one conversation. Have as many kids as you like as
well. Indy knows who you're talking
about. One conversation to make it
easy. And in that conversation you can
talk. I voice note like walking in the
out of school holding Indy or carrying Indy on my shoulders
out of school voice noting the educators hand over and whether
it's an observation, something good has happened, something bad
has happened, something just on my mind, something I want to
doom scroll or whatever it is. And every time you do that, Indy
is able to understand it against the context of the child and the
context of the conditions like it's trained and it's able to
log that as observation, as a data point on the timeline.
Indy always cheques that you're happy with the observation.
So there's no danger the AI is going to misinterpret and you
get to confirm it. Like again, audit trail is
crucial for this and it plots it to the timeline.
So you start to build out that timeline through things that I
see in here. And then my wife's like get a
notification like, oh, this is how, especially being overseas,
this is what's going on over there.
So my wife's in. And then all the documentation
so you can upload files, you can upload photos, videos.
Indie understands what it all is.
Probably the coolest feature that I'm most proud of.
Leaning into my accounting background was like uploading
files sucks. Like with my expenses, I just
forward them to an e-mail address and it's all there.
So we built that. So oh nice.
Any, any files you have attached to emails or the e-mail itself,
you just forward it to Indy or you add in add it as a like on
CC to a bit or the best thing is all of the practises that we
work without in ounces load that in the e-mail address into their
practise management software. So all of the communication,
regardless of who reads it, automatically syncs into Indy
when the e-mail comes in. Indy's able to read the body of
the e-mail and all the attachments, extract all of the
data points. So it's on the timeline.
So you've got a really, really rich media rich timeline, but
then all the documents are there for you, the emails are there
for you. So you're like, oh shit, just a
handover. And the kinder want to apply for
more funding or whatever and they need the last three months
of documents like click, click, click, click, click forward.
Kinder have got it. No searching through ring
binders, Google drives, whatever it is and it's there.
And we just we're really leaning into what parents need and our
vision is the entire journey from a admin project management
perspective should live within the app.
So you shouldn't need WhatsApp, you shouldn't need notes.
You shouldn't. And we're we're nearly there.
Like there's a calendar function in there that now syncs with all
of the practises. So I'm like, oh shit, I actually
know when OT is happening now I can push it to my work calendar.
We have our tasks, like the tasks at infinite of dealing
with all the different things. You can allocate them between
you and your wife and everything and it's all there.
And then speaking to the bit that you just mentioned there.
So one of the bits that I talked about right at the beginning
when I was talking to to Jeff is like building up the timeline is
huge because that like data is power, but it's what you do with
that data when you turn it into valuable information that that's
the superpower. So Step 1 was can I create any
document that I want? So I'm going to see a
paediatrician or and Indy can extract the data and produce it
for you. Like cool, nail that, that's
pretty good. We did a webinar for a big firm
in ounces last week called Higher up and it's for support
workers. So I was on on the webinar, I
was like in front of a load of support workers here.
If I wanted to bring a new support worker in, give me a two
page summary of what Indies like so they can decide.
And indie smashed it out, got it to them, looked awesome.
Like what if we can go the next step and start to join dots that
no one else can see? OK, so you talk about sleep.
I always talk about like our medication journey and
everything. Like we can already track the
medication, we can already track the sleep, what we're just
testing at the moment. So this isn't out yet apart from
like our closed group is. You can go into Indy and you can
pick whatever topic it is that you want, whatever goal,
whatever strategy, whatever you're working on and say, hey,
Indy, I want to start tracking X.
So I did 1 yesterday. I want to start tracking
regulation and meltdowns. What do you want to track around
it? I want to track frequency
intensity, what we did to try and like de escalate it and
everything. And indie is now able to spin up
a whole new module unique to you that just tracks that and like
go go back in over the last two years and give me a starting
point. And now it's able to do it.
So every time I voice note shit, Meltdown Bluey saved us after
half an hour. Whatever it is, not only is it
going to the timeline, it's going to that unique indie
tracks. And then the cool thing here's
like, so this is the cool thing. And I didn't realise when we
were building this because speaking to one of our
investors, he was like, so if you have a tracks for
medication, sleep and meltdowns, is India able to join the dots?
Between the three, he's going to say triggers.
I was like, Oh yeah, it is great idea.
Yeah, thanks for that. That's that's what it can do.
So that's what we're testing at the moment.
So we had like a call with a load of clinic owners, like if
you've got a caseload of 30 kids, how many unique goals or
strategies are you tracking at any one time?
They're like 100. You're not going to build
software that can like build like with AI, with the engineers
that we've got and their attitude to how they build like
their magic. They're coming up with some cool
stuff. Like it's not perfect yet.
We know that 12 months ago it was a chat feed.
Now, now it's spinning up this, this kind of stuff and data is
power, whether it's being able to actually implement positive
strategies or whether you're applying for funding.
Like in in ours, they talk about NDIS.
It's all evidentiary based. I assume that's the same over
here for the HCPS. Like cool, got the evidence.
How do you want me to spin it up?
You, you can make me feel crap as a parent on a phone.
Like you can come at me to try and drive down like our request,
but you can't argue with the data.
That's that's the huge thing. The amount of parents that could
avoid going to tribunal, Oh my God, because they couldn't be
rejected because the date. Is there something else you
sorry buddy, something else You said educate and educate A
handover. There must be so many instances,
but I haven't thought of that. There must be so many instances
where you find yourself using indie where you didn't think
you'd use it. So you, I mean, I, I was
thinking medical appointments, behaviours, things like that.
I, I didn't think just picked, just picked up.
Your kid just had the handover. You could just take a note
there. Like you're walking with Indy.
You can just voice note a note, 5 seconds, boom, that's in you
forget about it. There's none of this.
Oh, when I get home, I need to remember.
I've got to do this. I've got to do that.
It's just boom, done. Straight in she she had lunch
today. This is what she had.
She didn't have this again. She threw it on the floor.
Had a meltdown at 2:00. Yeah, the handover book we get
from school, you could literally open a page.
You could take a photo of it every day of the week.
And there's always extra stuff from the teachers that is in the
in the Hamburg, you know, we managed to get down the corridor
today. Yeah, we managed to actually
walk into a different space today.
You're like, oh, I must remember to say straight in there
there's. So much data you could give it.
And not just that, I was going to say I.
Can tell we're excited. Well, how?
How many parents do we hear from that are going through, you
know, like you say, EHCP process or anything else like that, so
overwhelmed. But it's it's because they've
never in their lives had to go through something like this
where everyone's going, provide me with evidence, give me data
and they're like, I don't know how to put it down on paper.
I don't know where to start. I'm not that sort of person.
I can't write these sort of eloquent emails that you'd be
like. And sometimes we know there are
kids that don't get the attention or the assistance they
need because no fault of the parents are just so overwhelmed.
They don't know how to tackle it or where to start and they're
not solicitors or anything. They.
Don't know how to do this stuff and they shouldn't need to know
that you should need to be, but this here.
Is going to go right, I'm going to basically hold your hand.
You give me the information, you tell me what you want and when
you require it. I'm going to hold your hand and
get you through that process 100%.
You talked. About educators.
And so it started off with the handovers actually, like if I
rewind it event 12 months ago, this was a parent app.
Like parents are our heroes. How do we make their lives
easier? And we're like, oh shit, we're
building in healthcare and AI. There's probably going to be
some people judging us here. We better.
So we put it in front of everyone in the healthcare
sector, like primary healthcare, like your GPS into hospitals.
And what we found is there's one slice in there in odds.
They call it allied health over here, not sure what they call
it. But in odds like looking at your
speeches, your O TS, your physios, your behaviour support
therapist and we put it in front of them and they were like.
In fact, this is amazing like oh sweet, that that's good to know.
Like tell, tell us more why you think it's amazing like learning
process like, well, this can change our first session with a
parent. Like if we all already have
access to the data and we're up to speed the first session,
which is always weird and feels odd because the parent comes in
they they feel under pressure to give us everything.
They tell me why your kids different to every other.
Kid, yeah. You're like, Oh yeah, yeah.
And the parents thinking. I'm spending $300 here.
Please do something with the child and then the the OT is
sitting there feeling guilty that they're not able to do it.
Like you can change that first session now.
Like if we can get line of sight to all this data in real time,
it means when we're planning our we can actually plan for what's
actually happening in the child's life instead of the
guesswork. So after every session we give
the parents homework or they don't call it that that's what
you had given. Like they turn up to the next
session 2 weeks later. Have they done it and it's
worked? Have they done it and it's not
worked? Has something else happened in
life? Has one of the other like
clinicians tried something else? Like they can go into every
session like finger on the pulse and, and be so, so good at the
sessions because they just know what's going on.
They're like, cool, like, let's, let's build this for parents and
allied health conditions because they're like first line of
defence for the kids. Biggest advocate for the kids
other than the parents themselves.
Like they're, they're the heroes of the parents.
They're the secondary heroes. So we, we built it as that.
And then the more we started building out, we kept seeing in
the data, we were like the more connected the village of care is
the the data increases. The more data, the more
visibility, the more visibility, the better.
Like we're doing everything for outcomes.
Like we're here to improve the lived in experience and the
outcomes for a million families around the world.
That's everyday. We centre ourselves on that.
If we can increase connection, we can do that.
So at the moment you have Indie, the parent app, and you have
Indie, the clinic app. So all of your clinicians can
have their portal, their visibility feeds things like the
reality is that's only half of the village.
Like the kids are at school, whatever school they go to more
than there with the clinicians. So like we need to bring the
educators on here. So we, we started testing like
we need to bring the support workers on here.
So we started like we started, we gave our support worker
parent access. Like come be another parent.
We gave the educator clinic access and we learn and we're
like, they need something slightly different.
And so that's, that's what we've built.
So we're probably, if Jeff's listening to this, we're
probably about a month away from releasing a version where
everyone in the village of care can be connected.
So you talk about how good would it be if I can walk away and
voice note the educator handover?
Like, yeah, really fucking cool. How cool would it be if you
didn't have to because the educator has already done it for
you in their language and media Rich, the photos, the videos, it
all goes in there. And then he's able to interpret
it. So again, so when you're walking
your child from school to the car, you're not thinking the
whole time, Shit, I need to remember this.
I need to voice note this. You can actually be present with
the child. You can be like, yeah, Indy, you
can sit down on the pavement for 20 minutes.
I've got 20 minutes. There's there's got to be some
cost. Savings in this massively in a.
System that isn't corrupt as. Fuck, like I'm.
Just imagining. How disconnected the NHS is from
everywhere it needs to be connected to.
If all of that was talking to each other and it was efficient
and spend money was being spent efficiently, like this seems
like the kind of thing to do it. But I imagine getting something
like this plugged into the NHS is a little bit different to
what you've done back in Australia.
Yeah. And this is.
Where we say, like technology has positioned it, that the
parents can drive change now and not wait for the system to catch
up. I have belief because, like, we
have to believe in something. I believe that when we get to
the point where we reach that burden of proof, it will be
undeniable and the decision makers will go like, this is a
no break. Yeah.
Yeah, and like people say like, oh, but.
There's an NHS app like have you tried?
I keep getting shown same same in odds like oh have you tried
the Gov Gov Gov app or something?
Like yes it contains like 5% of the data even if the NHS app
worked. Well, it still is nowhere near
what this is. It's not as advanced as this,
no. Jesus, it's nowhere.
Near It's like being on VHS when.
There's still like, you know, digital here.
It's yeah, it's crazy. They're on analogue still.
Yeah. And we're like.
I say our goal is a million families and there's a reason
for that. Again, going back to my my
mathematician, the data side, I'm like, when you can map out a
million journeys because these aren't straight line journeys,
right? How this expresses for a family
is fucking all over the place. We can map out a million
journeys of what a Level 3 autistic child looks like in
odds versus a Level 3 autistic child in the UK or profound or
whatever the work. I don't know what ADHD or
whatever it is. Imagine what we could do with
all that data and understanding. Like we can actually change the
way people get diagnosed. We could change intervention if
the TGA are listening. We are not a medical device.
We are not diagnosing at present.
But we can when we get there. But if if not, that can be.
Used to diagnose, you know, so like and you can actually change
the game. Like we talk about like I've
been over in the UK three days now and this is the first chance
I've had to breathe in three years.
And I'm like, not on break. Like if we were in Oz right now,
I'd have cried her like for most of this conversation.
But I, I'm OK And I there's millions of families around the
world now that are living on edge.
And it's not on edge. I've just been, it's on edge
like frontline battlefield. You say this to me, the PTSD.
Yeah, but it doesn't actually need to.
Be that way. Like, yeah, it's all like your
child, like it's always going to be tough in a way, but it
doesn't need to be this tough. No.
I mean, we find a lot of. The stories that we hear,
actually a lot of the things that break people, they get
broken because it's something that didn't need to happen.
When it's a big deal, you've already accepted that those big,
big things come with your child. You've already accepted it and
you're fine with it. But when the things happen that
don't need to happen, that's the thing that breaks people, the
thing we. Get.
Pissed off about, like you say that, you know, we talk about it
as dad. Yeah, we talk about it as dads.
And it's exactly the same for mums.
But from a dad's perspective, you go through, yeah, life's
going to be slightly different. It's not the kid that you
thought you were going to have and all the experiences that you
mentally had pictured already. I'm going to take them to the
footy or the rugby or they're going to be a gymnast or, you
know, all these sort of things that are going to happen.
They're going to get married one day.
You come to terms with that and you make peace with it and you
know you're going to be on a different journey.
And then you just get slapped in the face with how on earth am I
supposed to navigate the system in inverted commas and then do
the best I can to advocate and just get my child what he or she
needs again, go into that phrase so they can fulfil their
potential, whatever it looks like.
And that, for me as a parent, is a thing that really breaks my
balls and will piss me off. It's just the like you say, the,
the incompetence of the system sometimes or just trying to
understand everything on top of, hey, you've got to go to work,
you've got these bills to pay. You've got to have a normal
life. You've got to do this, you've
got to do that. And then you've got this
massive, like you said, project that you're going to be managing
for the rest of your life with very, very little assistance
apart from speaking to another parent.
And how did you handle this? Try this, try this or oh, it
depends what what post code you're in.
That's the other one, yeah. Whereas now post code lottery of
post code lottery. Health care for disabled
children, whereas now. We could have something which
which really does alleviate that stress when you say it's not
perfect. Yet I also imagine you're the
type of person, if I was to use it, I'd go, this is fucking
perfect. But because you've created it,
you're like, yeah, that's not quite right yet.
So I'm our biggest. I'm on QA, right?
I'm on quality. Like I'm our biggest critic and
there's a reason. So in in the world of tech, like
if you're going to build any kind of tech company, they
always talk about like shit before it's ready.
Like that's how you build technology.
Like you get it to the minimum viable product.
You get it out there and feedback is what and that's what
supercharged you. And I said to Jeff, like, like a
year ago, I said, we've got 2 rules building this company,
like rule #1 is no ego. Like this project is too big,
too important for anyone to get in the way of it.
And rule #2 is we are not going to risk putting a parent who's
already on the edge further over the edge.
So yeah, we need to test. Test on me.
I'll find safe places to test. Test on me.
I want to use it. 100% we're we're not risking.
It so it's meant we've had to go a bit slower and I've had to be
a bit more strategic with how we've raised money and go about
stuff. I'm not prepared to burn 100
parents so we can get our app better.
So yeah, it's, it's not perfect. I think we got to the point we
started in January, we started rolling out with a clinics and
we called it a design partnership, like a release it
to a few parents and we can all learn.
And I'm like, cool, it's in January.
It was at the point where I'm like, no one's going to leave
with a worse experience. It's like how much better.
And I think my wife was like, she was my litmus test because
like, I'm not, I'm not going to force her to do anything in
life, especially like she's got enough going on without this.
I'm like, the app's there when you need it.
In January went by and it's like, oh, not, I'm not really
using the app yet. And then I'm like, we changed
the agentic flow behind. So we went from like in
Interwell, we went from being a rapper on top of a big LLM to
our own unique agentic, like really powerful.
Indy went from being able to talk to you to actually Indy can
go and do things for you. And I'm like, Ali, it's good and
she's OK, give me a try. Like one week later she's our #1
user, like super user. Like cool, we've hit that point
now. Like I can confidently go and
say to any parent, whether your child is disabled or whether
you've just had your first baby and you're like, you really
care, this is going to be really beneficial for you.
Like really beneficial and got a few people on the way go.
I don't think I'm ever going to need your app.
It's like, Oh yeah, I probably thought that for a few years,
but don't worry because if you ever do need your app, the app,
I promise you it's going to work.
And again, if if someone says I'm not going to need your app
then. Great.
Yeah. If you don't.
Fingers crossed. Awesome.
Yeah, that's great. A lot of families would really
benefit from it. And obviously you just said then
like the first version was like a wrapper and an LLM and LLM for
anyone that doesn't know what that is.
It's a large language model. It's like ChatGPT, which
everybody's heard of, even if they've never used it.
It's not just ChatGPT. It's not like download ChatGPT
and you're off. No.
Yeah. OK.
Can I use it? I want it.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. You're not leaving this room
unless we get it. Yeah.
I mean, we're we're. Pushing so much paperwork.
We're pushing in ounces at the moment.
But the reality is like we've got users around the world and
we, we're gearing up to properly launch in the UK.
We're thinking August time as people get ready for, for school
year. So there's, there's a few secret
projects that we want to work with you and a few others on of
like, OK, cool, let's let's do some really HCP training.
And I understand it already has the knowledge, but like, let's
get the hacks in there and really push hard.
So if you're, if you're a family out there and you want to jump
on now, like 100% like jump on. We want the feedback.
If you want half an hour of my time for me to like on like on
board you like if a family needs help, I'll, I'll do it.
I I just want, yeah, I know you won't.
We just want the families to like have it and it really make
a difference. So yeah, people, people can jump
on now. And then then we're again, we're
really listening to parents and clinicians and educators like
what is the next thing that we actually need to build that's
going to change that lived in experience for you that can
change the world for the child. And the speed that the team are
building now is crazy by absolutely crazy to the point in
December we were looking at our our product road map and we're
going out and I'm like, Jeff, everything in the app is looking
good, but I still have my To Do List in my notes.
Like get that in. He's like, can't get it in.
Yeah, I need to do this. I need to.
And I just said, go on. If you do this one for me, I'll
let you plan the rest of it. And we sat down there an hour
later, he had built it, built it and deployed it and it was
crazy. And it's like, OK, cool.
We can we can move fast. It it didn't look the prettiest,
like prettiest To Do List, but it meant I didn't need notes
anymore. And then I was like, Jeff, can
Ali see the To Do List? He's like, yeah, you can
actually allocate them to her now.
You can allocate them. And so Ali took a screenshot and
we've got the message. She took a screenshot of the To
Do List and she what's at me and she goes, I didn't realise we
had this much to do. Like, yeah, because I fucking
because generally you pick roles in in this and I've been the
project manager. She had no idea.
And this is where we really look at for parents like the second
parent, if it is a second parent, they can only contribute
to the amount like they actually know they can see.
And so if they can't see most of it, you can't expect them to
contribute, no. And so giving that shared view
changes that. And that's also really good for
for. Many families where the parents
are split up. Yeah.
Because now you've got a clear.
Right, OK what needs to be done for our child as well.
And it's there in black and white.
Yeah, that's amazing. That's a really good point.
Yeah, because. And again, in a lot of
situations, these parents don't necessarily want to be having
phone calls with each other because, you know, things might
not have ended as amicably, amicably as you'd like, but if
they could just still see what's the important bit and that's the
child's needs, I mean, that yeah, that's, that's going to be
huge. We.
Got off that call, didn't we? And like.
For anyone listening, we said to you at the time, actually when
people reach out because they've got this thing that they want to
talk about. And once I was out of 10, we're
like, if it is it that good? Like is it are you?
And whatever it is, whether it's an app or a service, anything.
And it's like, oh, is it because we've been burnt a few times and
we ended up getting back in touch with you and we got off
the call after you showed us the app, which you say isn't perfect
yet, but we were like, looking at you use it.
And we were like, oh, why? Great.
We got the call. Me and him, we're like, what the
fuck? That is amazing.
And when was that night? That was 6-6 months again.
Yeah. January.
It was a while ago, Yeah. Yeah, so and obviously.
You've clearly done a lot more since then, but mate, I think
it's really exciting. Yeah, very, very.
You might have. People, this is going to help.
And as in, again, I go back and I look at it like, oh, I wish I
had that. Yeah, from day one early
intervention, you know, even like in the UK.
At the moment it, when it is officially launched in the UK,
you know, even if it doesn't feed into the NHS or anybody
else at the moment, you, you now have a personal assistant,
project manager all wrapped in one.
Yeah, even without all those connections.
It's still, it's very vague. Even without that, I'd be, you
know. We were excited, yeah.
Yeah. Because of what it.
Can do you say? Our our job.
Isn't to change how the system operates.
It's like we're not going to get on the home screen of the
hospital screen, but we can give them every chance to get the
information. So like an example being, I was
like, what happens when you go to A&E?
Like A&E for for us is like one of the hardest places to go.
Like indie freaks out. She hates it.
They're not really trained on how to deal with like this
specific condition or anything. Like when we get there, you have
that moment where they triage you and we're like, we need to
get over to them in like in seconds that if they Chuck us in
the waiting room with everyone else, like everyone's going to
know about it pretty quickly. So how do we, how do we do that?
Like we we know from like triage nurses what the the important
things they need. India already has all that
information. OK, cool.
What if in the profile there was a button you press and it pulled
up your emergency profile and it had everything for the triage
nurse, your NHS number or whatever.
Like, cool, that, that we can do very quickly.
I'm like, yeah. But then do you know what
happens when you're in there? The doctors walk around and they
take photos of your phones and stuff like generate a QR code so
they can scan it and just have it there straight away.
Like we don't need to infiltrate their IT system.
But if we can give them the information in a very easy way,
they're going to take it because that they they want the data.
Of course they do. And they want to get it as
easily as possible. Exactly.
Yeah, and they don't want to be. Quizzing us on it.
So like just looking at all those different scenarios.
Well, these are stuff that I hadn't even thought about.
No, I know that's what when, he said before with the
educational. Like the taking the note after
coming out to school, it's just do all these little, these
little tiny kind of nuances and things that you think, yeah, you
don't realise. You don't realise you use it
until you. Go to use it.
Or you you come to need it or you're sitting in a in A&E and
you know this shit hits the fan. Yeah fuck, if only we had XYZ.
How like obviously you, you had this The the the dream.
Yeah, has. It gone beyond what you thought
it was going to be. I don't.
Know in the in the of course, in the thick of it every day I like
live we have 1. So we use Slack internally.
I have a messaging system and I hammer the team every day to get
close to the data, like really understand what's going on.
So we have one channel where it Dings every time someone signs
up, it Dings if anyone like expires their account or
whatever, like I let the team know I said every time that
Channel Dings like my heart jumps like literally.
And they're like, it's not designed for that.
I don't give a shit if it's not designed for that.
Like because I know what this is like, like that's it.
So right now, like I'm in there every day.
I'm like that mum there in that part of the world that we've
never been to or there's oh shit, she's, she messaged us on
Instagram. Oh shit, that's the clinician in
Queensland that we've not even spoken to yet has recommended
someone. I'm like that, that feels good.
So we're in that, that stage where I can just see everything
line by line. Try not to get too caught up
with it because the reality is like, and people might think
this is bullshit, but it genuinely isn't.
Like a lot of people build tech companies to make a shit tonne
of money. I don't care.
I genuinely don't care, but knowing that another family
whose life has been literally turned upside down, like
literally they're living a different life to what they
expected, if we can help them, like we've we've done something.
So, so if we just say glued to that, glued to hearing back,
like what's working, what's not, then that's there and everything
else will take care of itself. We don't need to worry about it.
So yeah, I, I mean, we've achieved more in the first 12
months and I thought we were going to for sure, but I feel
like we've earned it. We've earned it by sticking to
our guns, doing things the way we want.
Like we're truly values driven. We're like gratitude family.
Your integrity's on point, mate. I can tell like you are like.
Yeah. And then we're like internally.
We're like this journey is really fucking hard whether
you're a parent carer or building a start up or a parent
carer building like it's really hard.
So we need to find a way that this journey is fun.
We need to bring the joy and I, I can't do it every day, but I.
I can hold myself accountable for like the effort to get
there. So whether it's how we show up
on socials, how we show up internally, like we're planning
for a few events in June, I'm like, yes, I want the crazy
coloured bean bags. Like we're going to enjoy the
ride while we go there. And if we just keep doing things
the right way, keep speaking with integrity and like you say,
you'll get sold stuff all the time.
Like now you've built like such an incredible following.
I if I can just talk to you honestly, dad to dad, you know,
if I'm making shit out, I think that's probably what it was
actually before we. Even started going through
stuff, just having a little bit of a back and forth
conversation. You could just tell you weren't
trying to sell anything. Just get a message out there,
yeah. I think it was probably when we
started talking about. Wiping shit off of our faces
probably. That's probably like that point
of. View Oh, this guy's been.
Through it, Yeah, he's one of us.
So if you've experienced that, then you.
Camaraderie between it. You've had it in your mouth
mate, so I have. Indeed.
Yeah, happy. Days everywhere else as well so
yeah, if you've experienced that then you you, you understand
you're in the crib and now I'll be able to go on the indie app
and go I've had poo in the mouth.
Yeah. Hey Andy, I've just had poo in.
My mouth. Listen mate, really happy for
you. I think what you're building is
incredible. I have absolutely no date.
You're not doing it for the money, you can just tell you're
not. Mate.
I can't wait to have a go at it. I can't wait for everyone else
to get it when it's finally, you know, released to the world.
Yeah, 100%. Because it's just, it's going to
save so. It's going to save families,
mate. It's going to save
relationships. It's because it's those those
are the little things that tip people over the edge.
It yes, it's going to help the kids, but it is it's going to
save families and relationships with that shadow of a day.
So removing that little bit of extra stress that you.
Don't need yeah make a huge difference.
Well well done mate. Thank you.
Thank you for coming all the way to the UK just for this.
Now he's doing some other. Shit, we're going to go grab
some. Food.
Yeah, 100%. Let's go, Let's go.
Get some food guys. Thank you very much, Orange.
Do you want to share socials and stuff like that?
If anyone wants to follow you, Yeah at the indie app.
Mine on that or in Benford, come along and say hi.
I'm happy to chat to anyone. Fantastic.
Awesome. And that's why we're wearing.
These shirts, that's the indie app shirts, Yeah.
So thank you very much. And for anyone that doesn't
know. You brought some Tim Tams as
well. They're like the best Penguins
ever. You can only get them in
Australia. Thank you, mate.
Lovely. Nice one.
Cheers buddy. Thank you.
Cheers guys. Bye, bye.
Bye.