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Hello mate. 
Hello. 

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How's it going? 
Episode 27. 

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Is indeed. 
Episode 27. 

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What the fuck? 
I know 27. 

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Big number as big as 28, which 
will be next week. 

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So let's try and make this a 
decent one. 

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Yeah, lots to get through. 
Lots to get through, lots to get

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through. 
It's going to be full of 

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content, that's for sure. 
Oh. 

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Saddle up those horses. 
So we're getting ready for it. 

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Saddle up those horses. 
What are we talking about, mate?

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What are we talking about? 
Oh. 

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We're talking about someone's 
leaked some information. 

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Send reform information. 
Send reform information has been

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leaked. 
So we love a good leak because 

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you kind of wonder, is it 
somebody that's disgruntled and 

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has leaked it, or has it been 
deliberately leaked to gauge 

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public opinion? 
If it's not real, it's very 

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imaginative. 
Oh, it's, it seems pretty 

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genuine. 
It seems like it's either legit 

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one they've got in the pipeline 
or it's just another one of 

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those little let's sprinkle this
out there and see what the 

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reaction is. 
Type things, yeah. 

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So yeah. 
But it's been described as 

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credible leaks from. 
The same source. 

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Yeah, from the same source about
the upcoming send white paper 

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and they've been published in 
the I paper and the Financial 

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Times. 
So usually they're kind of 

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papers that have good sources 
and tend to validate them before

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they print something, so it's 
come from the same source. 

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It was almost a week after the 
last send conversation that we 

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went to in London. 
Yes, it seemed interesting. 

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Nothing, nothing came before it.
It was no this. 

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That's finished. 
Seemed to have waited till after

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the send national conversation 
so obviously lots of people will

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read into that. 
We need to give props. 

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So yeah, this valuable 
information came from the Send 

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Rights Alliance. 
You if you're not following, you

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need to follow because she. 
She's on the board, isn't? 

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She she is absolutely on the 
board. 

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Finger is on the pulse. 
Oh yes, Finger is definitely on 

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the pulse, but she's, she's 
great at breaking down the 

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information as well, really, 
really good. 

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And it's helped us massively 
because it's given us a starting

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point to, to delve into this. 
So the leaks suggest fundamental

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changes to disabled children's 
rights and they're saying 

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nothing is confirmed yet. 
I love that, but the consistency

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and timing makes this impossible
to ignore. 

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So we're not going to ignore it.
But the white paper is, it's 

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expected out in February, isn't 
it? 

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So we just carry on living in 
this kind of limbo of 

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uncertainty until then. 
Yeah, if this, if this is just a

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little test of waters and see 
it's very close to when the 

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white paper's supposed to be 
coming out. 

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Yeah, which makes me think. 
So how long do you leave it to? 

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Yeah, exactly at. 
The end of January now that's 

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what I mean. 
Or is it a softening up of the 

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general public before they they 
release it? 

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And unfortunately, it's not. 
It's not the majority of the 

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general public that needs 
softening up. 

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No, no. 
But we'll get into it in a bit. 

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But this isn't just about people
directly affected by saying this

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is going to affect the wider 
community and they might not 

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realise at the moment by not 
doing it right now it is going 

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to affect everybody. 
It's. 

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Going to be a bit of dominoes. 
It'll it'll affect the the send 

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families first of all. 
Yeah, like overnight. 

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Yeah, and then you just watch 
for the knock on effect in 

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schools teachers. 
Staffing Welfare. 

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It's going to trickle. 
Down, you know? 

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Yeah. 
It's going to trickle down. 

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So this is not about fear 
mongering, but we're going to 

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digest it and see and see what 
happens with it. 

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So one of the key things that 
came out and this ties into the 

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question you asked about EHC. 
PS: If I was sceptical, I'd 

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probably say This is why this 
question keeps getting battered 

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away. 
Yeah. 

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But oh, we can't answer the 
question on EHCPS because 

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there's potentially going to be 
a four tier sense system. 

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Yeah, A4 tier sense system and 
unless you are born with a 

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disability, which most of these 
children are. 

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Yeah. 
Unless you, unless you're born. 

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So I think some of the examples 
they gave were like Down 

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syndrome, cerebral palsy, things
like that. 

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You'll get an EHCP immediately. 
Yeah. 

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Everybody else will have to 
basically pass through these 4 

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tiers. 
So, yeah, so if you've got 

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complex needs from birth, yeah, 
you'll automatically receive 

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your EHCP. 
Yeah, the rest of you will have 

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to go through The Hunger Games 
from the sounds of things. 

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So A4 Tier 4 tier system like 
you haven't got enough shit to 

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deal with. 
So the proposal that's been 

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leaked suggests 4 non statutory 
support tiers with the golden 

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EHCP would sit above all of 
these tiers. 

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But you now have to get through 
four additional tiers, like the 

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worst game of Super Mario, And 
at the end of it, there'll be a 

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final boss. 
Yeah, that you get to deal with.

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I keep laughing. 
I'm not laughing because it's 

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funny. 
I'm laughing because it's 

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insane. 
Non statutory support cannot be 

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appealed. 
It can't be appealed. 

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Can't be appealed. 
Who's this in favour of this, in

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favour of the families? 
Is it? 

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It's. 
Just nuts. 

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So yeah, so all other children, 
you would start at level 1 

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universal support, and then 
you'd be forced to move up 

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through all the four tiers, and 
only then will you become 

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eligible for an EHCP. 
So you've got to work from level

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1 to level. 
Two, I want to see what these 

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tiers are. 
I want to see what these levels.

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Are yeah, we need to see what 
these tiers are. 

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Do you know how difficult it is 
just to apply for an EHCP and 

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and get and get access to that? 
Could you imagine what it's 

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going to be like? 
I need to apply from level 1 to 

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level 2, the back and forth to 
get to there, and then from 

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level 2 to Level 3 and then from
Level 3 to level 4. 

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In the grey zone between the 
tears. 

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Oh. 
My word, it gets kicked back. 

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It feels a bit like, you know, 
the, the NHS fucking paper that 

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you, you, you joke about, which 
is so funny. 

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The grey paper. 
If anyone's there, you probably 

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have the the paper that you 
first get when you are yourself 

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assessing your child and whether
they hit these certain needs. 

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Andy made a really good point, a
funny point early on. 

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I didn't think about it at the 
time, but it comes on this off 

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white, basically grey paper that
feels like that's what this is 

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going to be a bit like. 
Like that was Tier 1. 

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Yeah. 
OK, this is a scary bit. 

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What if that is tier one? 
If that. 

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OK, cool, you're now past tier 
one. 

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What the fuck's in tier 2-3 and 
four? 

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Well, because tier one's pretty 
savage. 

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It's pretty. 
Tier One's Savage. 

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Enough. 
And that might not be the way 

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they're doing it, but I just 
look at it and I think it just 

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feels like there's all these 
hosts and hurdles with hurdles. 

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Really good. 
Yeah. 

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So, and again, like Andy said 
before, we're not 

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scaremongering, but I also think
it's important that we, they, 

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these leaks get released for a 
reason. 

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If they do get released 
intentionally, and I think they 

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do, they're doing it because 
they want to test the water. 

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Well, while we've got them, 
let's just prep for what might 

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be coming. 
It might be amazing. 

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It might come out in February 
and we'll go, Oh my God, this is

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a brilliant idea, but don't hold
your breath. 

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Yeah, sorry, don't hold your 
breath. 

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So the key concern then, if we 
we kind of delve into this is 

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that it's going to create a 
system where children must fail 

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repeatedly before getting legal 
support. 

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Yeah. 
So you're going to have to go 

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show in level one that your kids
failing. 

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Yeah. 
And then show again that in 

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level that level 2 is not good 
enough. 

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And it's hard enough doing that 
once. 

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Yeah, like we, I've talked about
how we took Thomas to that 

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mainstream nursery knowing he 
wasn't going to cope. 

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All the staff knew, the 
principal knew, everyone knew he

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was going to. 
That was savage, putting him 

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through something. 
We knew he was going to fail. 

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But yeah, to your point, it 
feels very much like that. 

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But you might have to do that 
another three times, yeah. 

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And. 
How long would that take? 

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Yeah, exactly. 
And how long were your kids have

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to go through that before it's 
justifiable? 

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Yeah. 
How much damage has been done? 

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Yeah, emotional damage and going
back to the child and the 

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parents. 
And going back to like the the 

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first point that if, if your 
child has a complex need from 

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birth or a severe disability 
from birth, autism, it doesn't 

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just appear after three years, 
they're born with it, but 

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diagnosis takes so much time to 
to get there. 

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So one of the things that comes 
up with this is that the 

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potential leak shows a profound,
we like using that word 

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misunderstanding of disability. 
I think is is fair to say and 

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this could be the heart of the 
argument. 

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And that's giving them credit, 
because credit would be. 

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You've misunderstood the 
problem. 

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Yeah, one size does not. 
It might not be that they don't 

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understand the problem, it might
just be that they don't give a 

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shit enough. 
Yeah. 

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Or the funding's not there and 
they're just like, listen, this 

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is just what we've got to do. 
I think they understand the 

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problem personally. 
Yeah. 

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But it's just me. 
I don't think you. 

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I don't think unless they're 
being wilfully ignorant. 

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Yeah, but that surely would be a
horrendous mistake to make. 

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Of course it would a horrendous 
mistake to make. 

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So the there you go. 
Let's say it does show a 

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profound misunderstanding of 
disability. 

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So we look at the kind of the 
the key points of this argument 

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is that clearly, as we've 
discussed many times, disability

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is not linear. 
We've talked how Thomas and and 

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Lydia, autistic, profoundly 
autistic, go to the same special

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needs school, both nappies, non 
verbal, massively different. 

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Massively different. 
Massively different. 

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Totally different kids. 
And you have to also remember 

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that many children don't get a 
diagnosis in infancy. 

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No, some have to wait. 
Yeah, the profundity's not there

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or they just aren't the numbers 
there. 

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Yeah. 
And as as many parents have 

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said, look, the difficulty with 
with certain traits of autism or

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everything else associated with 
being neurodivergent, it can 

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emerge later on in life. 
Yeah, it can emerge between the 

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transition between primary 
school and senior school and 

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then the the the fluctuation or 
hidden disabilities as well. 

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Yeah, mixed into that. 
God it's hard enough getting 

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these EHC PS: as it is just 
mental. 

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It's so mental. 
Yeah, but then like, if you 

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delve into it, into what the 
leak's saying, even the 

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government's own example doesn't
hold up, does it? 

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And. 
What was that what they use as 

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an example? 
Some, some they, I think they 

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mentioned kind of cerebral 
palsy, but there are certain 

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children with cerebral pals that
don't need to. 

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Get. 
Oh yeah, exactly. 

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So you can be Oh no, but you fit
the criteria, so you have one. 

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00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,200
Well, I don't require. 
One, I don't need one. 

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And again, we talked about kind 
of getting diagnosed early. 

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That's not always possible 
depending on where you live or 

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the process that you're going 
through. 

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And some children don't have 
complex needs. 

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And they still, this is a point 
that's been raised by quite a 

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few experts. 
They mentioned complex needs, 

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but they haven't given the 
definition of what complex. 

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Complex is. 
Yeah, exactly who defines that? 

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Yeah. 
So that would be really useful 

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to know what is complex. 
They're going to produce a a 

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guide with a disability, isn't 
it? 

230
00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,120
This white paper needs to be 
detailed, man. 

231
00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,040
It's got to be. 
It can't be. 

232
00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,400
You can't leave it to it. 
Can't be vague. 

233
00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,760
Someone's interpretation or 
complex is no. 

234
00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,400
And who gets to decide that? 
I bet you're knocking a few 

235
00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,400
doors and ask parents is it 
complex and be like fuck yeah 

236
00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,240
it's complex. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

237
00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:53,960
But I know, but this guide says 
it's not. 

238
00:11:54,480 --> 00:12:00,120
Oh, really? 
And then we've got the danger of

239
00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:05,320
a fail first system. 
A tiered system means repeated 

240
00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:10,000
inadequate support, delays, the 
meaningful help, escalating 

241
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:14,040
distress and trauma. 
And we've talked to quite a few 

242
00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,560
parents about this. 
And you know, in the in the 

243
00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:19,560
dad's group that we've got, it 
could push more children out of 

244
00:12:19,560 --> 00:12:22,320
education. 
Oh, well, that's, that's kind of

245
00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,480
one of the first things that one
of the guys said wasn't it is 

246
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:27,720
standby for all the 
homeschooling to go through the 

247
00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:29,760
roof. 
When homeschooling goes through 

248
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,960
the roof, teachers are going to 
start striking. 

249
00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,040
They're going to start kicking 
off because they're going to, 

250
00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:38,800
well, they're going to go on 
welfare because they're not 

251
00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:40,480
going to be able to get a job 
because they'll have to stay 

252
00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,520
home and home school. 
So the long term cost and 

253
00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:44,800
implications. 
Can affect everybody. 

254
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:46,600
It's just. 
Welfare. 

255
00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,520
Social Care. 
Mental Health, you know how 

256
00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,560
difficult it is anyway if you're
a parent and your sole life now 

257
00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:55,520
is staying at home with a child 
with really. 

258
00:12:55,920 --> 00:13:00,280
What's really sad, as I was 
saying today, the the the 

259
00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,880
biggest thing that could make an
impact is teachers strike it, in

260
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,640
my personal opinion, because 
it's that thing that strikes at 

261
00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:07,640
the heart of the economy 
functioning. 

262
00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,240
If teachers strike, kids aren't 
at school, parents aren't at 

263
00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:17,000
work, shit hits the fan. 
But what's the knock on effect 

264
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:18,360
going to be for teachers like 
we? 

265
00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,160
I think we've discussed this in 
previous episodes, haven't we, 

266
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:29,480
that you're going to go out and 
train every single teacher on 

267
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:34,840
how to cope with neurodiversity 
and these these potentially 

268
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,360
needs of children? 
Teachers are going to quit. 

269
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,680
And it's taken parents probably 
5 or 6 years to understand their

270
00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:43,720
own children and you're going to
hold a course over the summer 

271
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,400
and say, guess what, guys? 
And also, some of these teachers

272
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,200
didn't want to train to work 
with special needs children, and

273
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:51,920
that's fair enough. 
They've got into mainstream. 

274
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,160
That's fine, they didn't want to
do it and now, now they've got 

275
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,440
to deal with a completely 
different set of issues. 

276
00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:58,320
The classic thing with this, you
know, you start something, say, 

277
00:13:58,320 --> 00:13:59,600
oh, you know, it's only two 
kids. 

278
00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:01,080
Yeah. 
Yeah, it's only two kids in your

279
00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,600
class the following year, we 
might just have to squeeze it up

280
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:04,200
to three. 
Yeah. 

281
00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:05,600
Next year it's five. 
Yeah. 

282
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:11,040
And you're still trying to teach
neurotypical kids and have 

283
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:15,560
neurodiverse children in there 
as a teacher, At some point, 

284
00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:16,840
you're just going to go, this is
too much. 

285
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:18,680
Yeah. 
And then and then what? 

286
00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:21,720
Now we have a SENCO lead. 
And you know obviously the SENCO

287
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:23,680
lead, but you can imagine the 
workload now. 

288
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:25,840
Crazy. 
For for a lead and having every 

289
00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,960
parent go whoa I need to get 
from level 2 to Level 3 and 

290
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,680
having to deal with all this. 
Yeah, it's it's nuts. 

291
00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,200
Schools already stretched. 
Yeah. 

292
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,840
Teachers aren't specialists. 
There's no funding, so there's 

293
00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,560
no capacity. 
Yeah, it does it actually. 

294
00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,960
It's going to end up putting the
the teachers and the parents 

295
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,160
against each other. 
Yeah, there's going to be a lot 

296
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:51,840
of this happening. 
Oh, absolutely. 

297
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:54,720
Absolutely. 
And then do you have 

298
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,520
neurotypical families turn on 
neurodiverse families because 

299
00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,160
it's affecting their children's 
education? 

300
00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:01,880
Yeah, exactly. 
Well, why? 

301
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,160
And we've said that's in day 
one. 

302
00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,200
And you'll have, like, the 
simplistic views of some people 

303
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,520
going, well, they should just be
in a specialist school. 

304
00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:10,480
No fucking shit. 
Irrection. 

305
00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,080
Yeah, that's exactly, yeah. 
That's we know. 

306
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:15,520
That's what we're pushing for. 
Have more places, build more, 

307
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:17,720
more of these. 
So you're going to have that 

308
00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:19,080
kind of divide come around as 
well. 

309
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,720
But that's kind of, that's the 
message that needs to be getting

310
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,920
across as well. 
Because if this does go down the

311
00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:30,960
way we think it might, the same 
community is very powerful, very

312
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:35,120
vocal, but we don't have the 
numbers. 

313
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,360
We don't have the numbers for, 
for a lot of issues that people 

314
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:40,120
want to listen to. 
But that's because everybody 

315
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,400
doesn't realise that this is 
going to affect a lot more 

316
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:47,000
people than they realise. 
I mean, teachers, parents, the 

317
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,800
welfare state. 
I mean, again, well, I'm, I'm, 

318
00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:53,280
I'm kind of, I'm moaning based 
off assumptions really. 

319
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,080
We don't know what's going to be
in this white paper, but this is

320
00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:58,440
this. 
This is the information that we 

321
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,760
have. 
And it's a snippet, so this 

322
00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:02,880
might actually be what's 
happening, but there might be a 

323
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,160
lot of stuff on the backbone, 
the framework of it all, that 

324
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,720
actually makes it make sense. 
We don't. 

325
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:09,360
Know we'll do another podcast 
about that. 

326
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,520
We will, but I mean, there is 
some stuff in there obviously 

327
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:17,120
about, you know, the people 
losing their legal right, which 

328
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,640
is the the big point with the 
CP, wasn't it? 

329
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:21,240
And we'll, yeah, we'll have a 
look at that. 

330
00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,000
But there's a bit of the 
terminology. 

331
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,720
There's a contradiction around 
diagnosis that comes out as 

332
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:28,200
well. 
So there's a bit of hypocrisy 

333
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,440
here. 
The government narrative says we

334
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,400
should stop medicalizing 
children. 

335
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,400
All right, they're all children.
We should stop focusing on on 

336
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:40,080
medicalizing them. 
The proposal suggests the 

337
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,360
diagnosis may determine 
entitlement to support. 

338
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,640
So the only way to do that is 
you're medicalizing children. 

339
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,560
Just medicalized them. 
It's it's becoming a condition 

340
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:50,560
based system, not a needs based 
one. 

341
00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,440
So well your condition says here
that you're not entitled to it. 

342
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,240
Yeah, no, but the needs are that
are definitely require it. 

343
00:16:58,240 --> 00:16:59,880
Yeah. 
No, no, it's black and white. 

344
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,720
This is a condition here. 
You're not entitled it entitled 

345
00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,040
to it. 
So there's going to be a massive

346
00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,760
variation within kind of the 
diagnosis process there. 

347
00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,119
And is it going to exclude 
children with profound needs who

348
00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:19,560
never re receive a diagnosis? 
And that's again, that's that's 

349
00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,960
the issue that a lot of parents 
and their kids have got now. 

350
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,560
And then the other thing that 
springs to mind is if you go 

351
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,839
down this route and it is a 
condition based system, not a 

352
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:29,240
needs based one. 
Yeah. 

353
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:31,480
Is the next step then to look at
DLA? 

354
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,280
Probably. 
It's like, no, no, the condition

355
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:37,320
here says you're entitled to XY 
and Z, Yeah. 

356
00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:40,160
It's the next logical step, 
isn't it? 

357
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,360
Well, I would think you can't 
have one without the other. 

358
00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:45,800
No, because why would you then 
go, oh, the DLA says I've got 

359
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:51,000
the the maximum entitlement, but
then I can't get it on this 

360
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:52,800
education based system that 
you've put in place. 

361
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:54,640
Yeah. 
So surely the two will end up 

362
00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,480
marrying up when that starts to 
happen. 

363
00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,760
Oh. 
God, especially if you do have 

364
00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:03,720
the knock on effect of people 
homeschooling. 

365
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,560
Yeah, and can't work. 
Yeah, and now the DLA gets 

366
00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:11,320
dropped. 
And then we have the the other 

367
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,400
thing that came about in this, 
this leaked article is a threat 

368
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:19,920
to individual assessment and 
legal rights and it explains 

369
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:25,160
what we could potentially lose. 
So EHCP is currently provide 

370
00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:30,120
individual needs assessments and
the all important legally 

371
00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:34,680
enforceable provision and these 
are the foundation of disabled 

372
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:36,560
children's rights. 
And the right to appeal. 

373
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:42,000
And the right to appeal the leak
suggests A reduced or restricted

374
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:47,040
EHCP assessment process, schools
deciding provision without legal

375
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:51,680
duty, parents potentially losing
the right to challenge 

376
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:57,080
inadequate support and only be 
able to challenge process 

377
00:18:57,120 --> 00:18:59,760
errors. 
So as long as everyone can show 

378
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:04,040
they followed the process, tough
titties, That's it. 

379
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:13,440
That sounds like it's going to 
go down like a shit sandwich. 

380
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,000
Yeah. 
And was there anything about 

381
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:17,280
that? 
And I don't think there was 

382
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,360
retention of EHCP if you've 
already got one. 

383
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,960
There wasn't, was there? 
There wasn't much into that. 

384
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:26,880
No, because that is a question 
that people are going well. 

385
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,680
Does it start from a set date? 
People are applying weapons to 

386
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,440
the EHCP that are already in 
place. 

387
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,960
If you're a send betweener then 
we discussed it. 

388
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:40,760
Do they then keep in place to 
the next review date? 

389
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,920
No. 
Sember's way, I really feel for 

390
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,040
him. 
Like we've said before, I think 

391
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,920
it's it's fair to say that 
Thomas and Lydia, even if they 

392
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:57,720
did get their EHCP reassessed, 
they'd be at the level where 

393
00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,080
they carry on getting the same 
support. 

394
00:19:59,080 --> 00:19:59,920
They're getting that. 
Yeah. 

395
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,840
But this is this is, this is 
scary for a lot of parents. 

396
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:07,280
Yeah, yeah. 
And. 

397
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:09,120
Again, it's the unknown. 
The unknown is scary. 

398
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,800
It's almost better to see this 
as shit as it is than what it 

399
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:15,560
was a week ago when no one had a
clue. 

400
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,160
But we we got an e-mail today, 
I'll just kind of read a little 

401
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,760
bit about it. 
It's from a lady talking about 

402
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,520
her granddaughter who's 5. 
This might sound familiar. 

403
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,240
Non verbal severe learning 
disabilities still in nappies 

404
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,200
sent to a mainstream school 
along with her neurotypical twin

405
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,440
brother. 
And the parents have objected 

406
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,880
and tried to to fight it. 
The child has elopement issues 

407
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:41,200
whilst at school. 
There's been many occasions 

408
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:42,600
where nappies haven't been 
changed. 

409
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,840
She's eating stones outside and 
they've asked for urgent review 

410
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:52,080
into it and it. 
I believe the mother had to 

411
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,240
record the conversation or the 
review on audio on her phone. 

412
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:03,280
And then the EHCP that was 
promised was was not amended and

413
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:07,120
nothing was taken into account 
until she pulled out and said, 

414
00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:08,840
I've got the recording of the 
conversation where you've 

415
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:10,200
promised all of these things 
and. 

416
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:12,840
They sort of didn't. 
Know, they said. 

417
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:14,680
Now we'll look at it seriously. 
So they're trying to find a 

418
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:15,960
place for in a specialist 
school. 

419
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,760
So that's it folks. 
You can't trust anybody, any 

420
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,440
professional unless you record 
it. 

421
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:23,720
So you can basically use it 
against them. 

422
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:25,840
It's the only position where 
you're safe. 

423
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,400
How, How have we got to have 
this fight? 

424
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,800
Have we got all the details? 
Oh, I've got all the details. 

425
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:32,040
Yeah, we need to follow up with 
that. 

426
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,920
Yeah, we'll follow up with that.
But that's that's the same level

427
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,400
of that's, that's, that's the 
promise that is, yeah, stick 

428
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:40,600
them in a mainstream. 
School. 

429
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:42,720
Oh, what? 
How many more kids are going to 

430
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:43,640
be like this? 
No, no. 

431
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,720
But we followed the the process 
and it says. 

432
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,880
And that's happening while the 
current framework is still in 

433
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:49,400
place. 
That's. 

434
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,080
In the current framework where 
we have. 

435
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,640
Which kind of works. 
Some legal, yeah, protection, 

436
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,880
but Can you imagine now which go
no, no, there's there's no as 

437
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,960
long as the process is followed 
and the school can show they 

438
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,760
follow the process, yeah. 
Yeah, yeah. 

439
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,200
The the school could essentially
say, yeah, we did an assessment 

440
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,000
and we assessed that they could 
go mainstream. 

441
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,400
But then like if you're a 
normal, if you're a mainstream 

442
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,160
teacher and you've got a kid 
like. 

443
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,760
That like the the teacher must 
be tearing her air out. 

444
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:16,880
Like, why is this kid here? 
Yeah. 

445
00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:21,440
How am I, how am I going? 
How am I educating the children,

446
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:22,600
the Romans? 
And I've got a kid like this, 

447
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:23,000
isn't it? 
Yeah. 

448
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,520
That's nuts. 
That's just nuts. 

449
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,080
It's it's. 
I mean, I know there's 

450
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,520
situations where, you know, 
sometimes parents, they, they, 

451
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,040
they're struggling to digest the
whole autism thing or whatever 

452
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,040
the disability is. 
So they want them to go to 

453
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,080
mainstream because they just 
feel that if they do the 

454
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:40,560
opposite and they get a 
specialist, they won't be able 

455
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,400
to grow and, you know, be the 
best they can be. 

456
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,920
But that's the system just sent 
that kid to A to a mainstream. 

457
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,480
That is the system. 
That is the system. 

458
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:56,040
But Can you imagine the amount 
of parents that are just going 

459
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,880
to be wanting to contact 
schools, local authorities, 

460
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:00,960
whoever to do the best for that 
you? 

461
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,280
Know what you're going to get a 
lot of as well. 

462
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,600
You're going to get a lot now 
because the system because 

463
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,520
parents like the ones I've just 
mentioned that are kind of that 

464
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,600
they're not really digesting it 
and you're going to get the 

465
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,040
professionals are going to start
encouraging like I'm just 

466
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,760
wondering if you know if my son 
should be in specialist. 

467
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,640
No, no, no, they'll be fine and 
I'm OK I'll just take your word 

468
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,240
for it. 
So it won't even be a battle 

469
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,720
because they'll be quite 
receptive to that to to be told 

470
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,840
that their child. 
You want to hear what you want 

471
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:29,320
to hear? 
Yeah. 

472
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:30,920
So it's going to be a lot easier
now. 

473
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,520
Yeah, that's what they're going 
to do when they're in there. 

474
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:34,920
Yeah, and oh, it's going to be 
fucking. 

475
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:35,960
And this is what I mean by 
teachers. 

476
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:36,960
Teachers are going to be start 
going. 

477
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:38,960
Nah, mate, all right, what? 
But. 

478
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,000
Then do you have the internal 
politics within the school where

479
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:42,800
teachers are going? 
Look, I'm I'm on the front 

480
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,920
bloody line here. 
I I, I literally I'm basically 

481
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,200
at war. 
Yeah, I every day is a 

482
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:49,400
battleground now. 
Yeah. 

483
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,400
And I've got to deal with this. 
But then have you got like the, 

484
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,160
the upper echelons of the 
schools who are like, no, no, we

485
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,680
we'll get more funding. 
Yeah, we'll get more money in. 

486
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,800
Again, right with this we, and 
this is a piece that I I might 

487
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,560
not be aware of, but is this 
still talking about having a hub

488
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:07,760
fixed to a mainstream school? 
That seems. 

489
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,880
To dedicate teachers. 
It does, doesn't it? 

490
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,000
This seems to have got this may 
sounds like they're just going 

491
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:13,760
to be in with all the other 
kids. 

492
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,040
I don't know that I just, but I 
haven't heard them mention hubs 

493
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,600
for a few months. 
Like how many kids? 

494
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:19,480
How many? 
How many kids? 

495
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,880
How many schools already 
stretched to capacity? 

496
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:23,000
Yeah. 
And then what? 

497
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,280
You're going to find room to 
build a dedicated hub? 

498
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:26,800
Yeah. 
What for? 

499
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,080
For children between the ages of
11 to 16, Yeah, there's going to

500
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,000
be a hub there. 
Got one big classroom for all of

501
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,200
them. 
That's just another school. 

502
00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:35,120
You've just made another. 
School. 

503
00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:37,520
So you're going to, we're going 
to have portacabins for these 

504
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,400
kids. 
So disabled kids in portacabins?

505
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,720
That's the thing, and. 
What about the toilet needs? 

506
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:42,960
Yeah. 
What about everything else? 

507
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,480
Yeah, you might as well just 
build bloody another school yeah

508
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,680
to to deal with that it's. 
A weird one. 

509
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,160
It's fun. 
And who's going to, who's going 

510
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,760
to take on that responsibility 
and to be dedicated? 

511
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,680
To if there's any teachers that 
want to get in touch, by the 

512
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,800
way, let us know because they 
must have been approached. 

513
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,520
They must be. 
Schools must know. 

514
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,320
Yeah, if the white papers coming
out in February. 

515
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,040
Oh, there, there'll be 
consultations that have taken 

516
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:11,160
exactly a couple of people that 
have. 

517
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:12,840
Been on SO if you want to, if 
you want to get in touch 

518
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:17,240
anonymously, we will absolutely 
keep it so that you are 

519
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,000
anonymous. 
If you want to tell us what the 

520
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,880
fuck's going on, that'd be. 
Great. 

521
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,560
Yeah, because you've got this, 
the funding thing as well. 

522
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,720
So there's going to be 
apparently, according to this, 

523
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,920
maybe a shift away from 
individual funding. 

524
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,080
So you've got to follow the 
money now. 

525
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:36,240
So the report suggests less 
funding tied to individual 

526
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,720
children. 
OK. 

527
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:46,880
More more money given directly 
to the schools to in in quotes 

528
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:56,240
here manage needs generally 
whatever the that means yeah so 

529
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,760
we're we're taking the money 
that's tied to the individual 

530
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,600
child and we're just going to 
give it to the school they're 

531
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,960
assigned in a big pot it's. 
Just going to go in a pot. 

532
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,920
Yeah, and the school will manage
the needs generally. 

533
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,760
But that's because they're not 
going to specify an amount of 

534
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,400
funding per child. 
I'm guessing there's just going 

535
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,040
to be a local authority is going
to receive X amount of funding 

536
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:24,760
every year based on the amount 
of children with special needs. 

537
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,560
But then what do you? 
You're going to and it's. 

538
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,680
Just going to go. 
On a park are they are these 

539
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,000
schools going to generally go Oh
no we're going to get dedicated 

540
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:38,200
fully trained teachers in where 
are they yeah where are these 

541
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:39,920
it's. 
Going to be a hard one to to 

542
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:41,480
audit. 
Or they're going to have some 

543
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:42,800
schools which are really good at
going. 

544
00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:46,640
We can make this little bit of 
money stretch and then we could 

545
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,440
use some of the money for. 
New PCs Yeah, I. 

546
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,040
Mean but, but where's the 
accountability to that? 

547
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:54,760
Yeah. 
No, I don't. 

548
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,400
Yeah. 
Well, accountability, we'll talk

549
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,400
about that in a minute. 
So there's no clarity, again, on

550
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,200
legal obligation to meet needs 
of these children. 

551
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:10,400
Oh, right, just that there's no 
legal obligation to meet the 

552
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,440
needs of the children. 
Yeah. 

553
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:19,960
OK, so at the moment there is an
obligation. 

554
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,280
Oh yeah. 
And they're failing repeatedly. 

555
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,760
Yeah, but now if we remove the 
obligation. 

556
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,800
There's no obligation. 
We won't fail because there's 

557
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,400
nothing to fail. 
Genius thinking. 

558
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,360
Amazing. 
Amazing. 

559
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,760
So no accountability if the 
support is inadequate. 

560
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,800
And we already know what happens
when there's no enforceable 

561
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:46,400
duty. 
That's how the current crisis 

562
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,640
began. 
So this can only make things 

563
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:56,080
better. 
And another point we've just 

564
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,720
kind of discussed there, the 
impossible burden on schools and

565
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,640
teachers. 
Yeah, I know if I try. 

566
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,360
And again, sorry, I'll say what 
I was going to say. 

567
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,960
If I train to be a teacher and 
now suddenly obligated to look 

568
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:19,520
after children with special 
educational needs, I mean, OK, 

569
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,240
are you going to pay me more? 
Well, this would. 

570
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,720
Be a question, Yeah, they're 
probably not, but you would 

571
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,720
deserve it. 
As a parent of a neurodivergent 

572
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:30,720
child, you absolutely deserve 
it. 

573
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,680
You deserve a pay rise if you're
now looking after them as well. 

574
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,120
100%. 
And what we haven't talked about

575
00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:40,840
is all the parents out there, I 
am telling you now, if you're 

576
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:42,880
listening, if you happen to be 
listening to this podcast and 

577
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:47,200
you've, you're a parent of 
neurotypical children, your 

578
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:51,880
children are going to be 
affected negatively to some 

579
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,920
degree. 
If your child's teacher is also 

580
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,040
having to deal with children 
with with additional needs, your

581
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,080
child is going to be affected. 
Yeah, it's just a fact, 100%. 

582
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,320
Look, and this sounds maybe like
an extreme example, but I guess 

583
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,400
the nuances are there. 
If I trained as a French teacher

584
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,640
and then went into a school and 
they said guess what, you're 

585
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,280
teaching maths from now on. 
Yeah, quite trained enough. 

586
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,840
Yeah, I'm not trained and. 
How long is this training going 

587
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:21,800
to take? 
Maybe like 2 days over the. 

588
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:22,760
Summer, like, do you know what I
mean? 

589
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:24,800
Is it going to be like a 60 
minute zoom? 

590
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,840
Like what? 
Like, that's some training. 

591
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:29,840
Yeah, but if how many teachers 
are there in the UK? 

592
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:30,800
Yeah, exactly. 
We're. 

593
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:32,560
Going to train all of them. 
Well, they will. 

594
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,600
They'll probably pull them all. 
On a, what do you do about the, 

595
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,800
we all know certain teachers 
that again, 99% teachers, they 

596
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,600
say they're great teachers, but 
even the teachers will know 

597
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,440
teachers that are absolutely 
shit and they're just there 

598
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,080
until they get their retirement 
pension and they're just going 

599
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,800
through the motions. 
What are you going to do with 

600
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,480
those? 
And then? 

601
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:54,560
It's just and then. 
The other thing to shit show 

602
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,720
you've got more newer diverse 
kids in a school. 

603
00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,520
You know what kids are like. 
They're horrible. 

604
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:01,920
Yeah, the horrible. 
Bastards, the horrible bastards.

605
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:03,400
What's going to happen? 
They're going to start picking 

606
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,280
on these kids as well because 
they're different and don't have

607
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,080
the nuances of understanding. 
Easy target, aren't they? 

608
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:13,000
Easy target? 
I mean, oh, it's just a shit 

609
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,160
show. 
So teachers are not trained to 

610
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:16,880
diagnose scent. 
Saying it's a shit show. 

611
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,720
We haven't even seen the white 
paper yet, but if this is even a

612
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,000
snippet of what it's going to be
like. 

613
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:29,080
As we, as we keep hearing 
repeatedly from every school, 

614
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,280
you know, that you, you if 
you've got neurotypical 

615
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,600
children, they're already 
underfunded and overstretched. 

616
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,760
Yeah, every school is like that.
They're like churches, aren't 

617
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:38,160
they? 
Like we need some money raising 

618
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,520
for the roof. 
Every school is exactly the same

619
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,480
as it stands at the moment. 
And Yep, what's the risk? 

620
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,720
As we said before, you're going 
to pit parents against schools, 

621
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,000
placing blame where expertise 
and resources don't exist. 

622
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:54,320
Yeah. 
Exactly. 

623
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,120
Yeah, you're going to be pitting
them against each other because.

624
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:57,520
There's no it's going to be. 
No one's fault. 

625
00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,280
Because we have no one else to 
go against, no. 

626
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,760
So we'll take it out on the 
person that is dealing with it 

627
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,760
day in, day out. 
So nobody, nobody wins in this 

628
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,640
situation. 
And the thing that's probably 

629
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,320
going to put the fear of guard 
up of most people is that 

630
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,680
reduced appeal rights. 
Yeah, no, I was just reading 

631
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:19,200
that. 
Reduced reduced appeal rights. 

632
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,880
So no meaningful challenge in 
place. 

633
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,920
So, and I think this is really, 
really critical because even 

634
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,640
though the system is a bit shit 
at the moment, you did have the 

635
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,440
right to repeal it and go down 
that process. 

636
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,600
And the article in the Financial
Times suggests that appeal 

637
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:40,200
rights may be limited. 
And the rumours going around 

638
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,520
indicate parents could only 
appeal if the process wasn't 

639
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:49,360
followed, not if support is 
wrong or insufficient. 

640
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,680
So if if, if the support the 
school gives is wrong or 

641
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,560
insufficient, as long as we can 
show that we followed the 

642
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,560
process, then there's nothing 
you can do really. 

643
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,440
If we haven't followed the 
process then you can appeal. 

644
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,240
You're removing the right to 
challenge like you can't the. 

645
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,440
Success rate for the school. 
Keep removed the right to. 

646
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,800
It's like you remove the right 
to challenge and then you 

647
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,160
completely remove the whole 
point of getting it right in the

648
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,000
1st. 
Place no, you still have real 

649
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,120
accountability. 
Like from their perspective, our

650
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:20,960
perspective, the reason is get 
it right is because it's the 

651
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:22,760
right thing to do. 
But from their perspective, the 

652
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,240
reason to get it right is so you
don't get challenged. 

653
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,640
Yeah. 
From their perspective, yeah. 

654
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,200
But if you remove the right to 
challenge, they've got no 

655
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:31,680
incentive to get it right in the
first place. 

656
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,280
And then we can have sandbikes 
going 100% success rate. 

657
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,160
We've smashed. 
It we've performed it the. 

658
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,040
Stats show that nobody has No 
one challenged us. 

659
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:40,920
No one challenged us because no 
one challenged us. 

660
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:46,120
Absolutely perfect. 
So again, if that is, if that 

661
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:53,120
isn't there, I'll tell you what 
MPs wait till the next. 

662
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,600
Election in case. 
Wait till the next election. 

663
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,960
In case this was just fettered 
out there, just to see what the 

664
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,720
response was, please listen to 
what we're saying and take that 

665
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,880
as the general response. 
Yeah, it's going to be worse for

666
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,600
some people. 
We're being, we are being very. 

667
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,760
We're holding it back, but trust
me, the the comments that we 

668
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,600
have seen, I think it's going to
be like the the episode of Shrek

669
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,000
where people get pitchforks. 
And again, we're viewing this 

670
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:21,240
from the perspective of two dads
who've got children who whatever

671
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,000
happens. 
Yeah, we're in a specialist 

672
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:24,000
school. 
Setting, We're in a specialist 

673
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:25,560
school setting. 
We're very unlikely to for our 

674
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,640
children are unlikely to to lose
their EHCP or if it does get 

675
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,440
reassessed, they'll get it 
straight back again because they

676
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,000
both have profound needs. 
If you're a parent trying to 

677
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,320
digest this or you're listening 
to what we're saying now and 

678
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:40,080
you, you've got a child who's a 
sent between or any multitude of

679
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,520
children at different, different
situations, you're going to be 

680
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,720
fucking raging, raging and 
scared. 

681
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,160
Already the amount of private 
messages we've had of people 

682
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:56,400
going, I'm just going to get 
everybody to contact my MP, 

683
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,560
we're going, we're going to 
flood their inboxes with 

684
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:00,880
absolutely everything from send 
families. 

685
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:06,120
Good example is your EHCP in 60 
seconds video, Yeah, which has 

686
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,560
got nearly 1,000,000 views. 
Yeah, really, a million people 

687
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,360
have seen your face this close. 
That's just on Facebook. 

688
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,960
That's just on Facebook. 
Yeah, we, we put it on Instagram

689
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,600
last year and I think it had 
like 800,000 views on Instagram 

690
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:20,239
and we thought, do you know 
what? 

691
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:21,360
We've just started the Facebook 
page. 

692
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,320
Let's put it on there. 
You put it up on Friday. 

693
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,000
Yeah. 
And since Friday, today's 

694
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,840
Monday, by the way, 1,000,000 
views and I'll tell you what the

695
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,760
messages coming through. 
And that's, that was going to be

696
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,480
my point. 
The the amount of people that 

697
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,400
sit and this is kind of where 
it's getting a bit ridiculous. 

698
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:40,320
There's parents, EHCP exists, 
it's existed for a long time. 

699
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:42,040
There is a legal framework to 
it. 

700
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,120
It exists to. 
Now we're getting all these 

701
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,360
questions of parents desperately
trying to figure out how to work

702
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,360
the EHCP process, the. 
Current system. 

703
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,360
Exactly the current system that 
kind of works. 

704
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,360
Guess what guys? 
Guess what, guys? 

705
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,160
Yeah, exactly. 
An overwhelming majority have 

706
00:34:58,160 --> 00:34:59,960
been about the ECP. 
We potentially could put another

707
00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:03,040
four steps in it. 
Yeah, and more paperwork, more 

708
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:04,480
everything else. 
Yeah, and and don't worry about 

709
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:05,800
having to appeal because you 
won't be allowed. 

710
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,160
What the fuck? 
I think I swore more on this 

711
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,200
one, but yeah, I think. 
But then think about it, if 

712
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,920
you're the person at the say at 
the moment, the local authority 

713
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,360
and you're dealing with all 
these cases of EHC, PS:, You're 

714
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,960
just dealing with EHCP. 
Wait till we tell you. 

715
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,080
Guess what you're going to deal 
with Level 1, Level 2, Level 3, 

716
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,320
Level 4, EHCP as well. 
Yeah, guess what, we've got some

717
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,160
good news because we've got a 
four tier system. 

718
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:30,440
Yeah, we're going to hire 
somebody part time per week to 

719
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,800
help out. 
Oh, it's just nuts. 

720
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,240
So is this all about cost saving
Gareth? 

721
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:38,960
Shall we say the quiet part out 
loud? 

722
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,080
Does removing legal legal rights
equal a cheaper system? 

723
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,080
Yeah, I think it does. 
Yeah. 

724
00:35:50,720 --> 00:35:55,720
Yeah, it's about cost, about 
money, but I'd still think 

725
00:35:55,720 --> 00:35:56,840
they're kicking a can down the 
road. 

726
00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,360
You're going to get more 
exclusions. 

727
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,520
Yeah you are definitely 
guaranteed 100% going to get 

728
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,360
more mental health crisis from 
this. 

729
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:07,240
They're kicking the can down the
road. 

730
00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:08,920
They're. 
Short, short term savings. 

731
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:11,680
Yeah, you might just be 
thinking, I don't know whether 

732
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,880
they are thinking short term or 
you know and can say we've made 

733
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,960
immediate savings, but the long 
term damage and knock on effect 

734
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,000
in everything else. 
Do you remember when we talked 

735
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,840
about I had a bit of a rat? 
It's not like me. 

736
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:24,920
I had a bit of a rant in one of 
the early episodes. 

737
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,160
I was going to say I've not 
heard you run in a lot. 

738
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,240
It must have been an early it. 
Was when this was announced and 

739
00:36:29,240 --> 00:36:32,240
I may have dropped the C bomb. 
In the conversation, we were 

740
00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:38,400
talking about prisons and how 
many or what the percentages of 

741
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,720
individuals that are in prison 
that are neuro diverse. 

742
00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:44,280
You know, I made a bit of a sly 
comment going, well, whatever 

743
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,080
happens, at least we'll have 
somewhere to stay under this 

744
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,560
government or under this regime,
not necessarily this government,

745
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,920
past governments as well. 
You better build some more 

746
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,680
prisons if this is what's going 
to happen because they're going 

747
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,440
to be so many kids that fall 
foul of not getting the right 

748
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:01,680
education and needs. 
Exactly. 

749
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,880
And that's not tarring people 
that are neurodivergent with 

750
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:05,360
being criminals. 
That's saying that when you 

751
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,040
don't have the support that you 
fully deserve when you're 

752
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,880
growing up, that might be what 
happens. 

753
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:13,440
And the stats speak to 
themselves. 

754
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,120
Exactly. 
The stats show it now. 

755
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,680
Now with the system we've got. 
Wow. 

756
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:24,520
So, yeah, short term savings, 
definitely long term damage and 

757
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,840
this is very important as well. 
You touched upon it at the start

758
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:31,320
of the conversation, timing of 
this timing of this leak, and we

759
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,520
were invited to send national 
conversation. 

760
00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:38,320
And a lot of families again are 
saying they do feel betrayed 

761
00:37:40,720 --> 00:37:46,200
because this leak for whatever 
reason has dropped just over a 

762
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,200
week after the SEND national 
conversations closed. 

763
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:52,640
And it's given that impression 
again. 

764
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,520
And we raised it with the 
minister that a lot of families 

765
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,680
think the decisions were already
made. 

766
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,120
Parents voices were ignored. 
Regardless of there's a SEND 

767
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:06,480
national conversation, many 
people felt the format wasn't 

768
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,400
right and companies were given 
false hope. 

769
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,440
Yeah, I could see both sides 
that that whole national 

770
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,160
conversation thing. 
I can see, I can see their side 

771
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:16,200
of it. 
Absolutely. 

772
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,600
An hour with 1000 people. 
I think they said 1000 people 

773
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,240
were watching, yeah. 1000 
speaking to a few, there's, 

774
00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:28,280
there's some people saying 
there's there's been a lot more 

775
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:29,920
than that for each episode. 
Right. 

776
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,320
OK. 
Like trying to get yourself 

777
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,680
heard in an hour. 
And that wasn't an hour of full 

778
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,120
free flow back and forth. 
No, I think it was maybe twice 

779
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:45,080
where they they, they voted on 
the screen and what the 

780
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,880
questions were like. 
You didn't need to do that. 

781
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,520
I could have told you exactly 
what the results were going to 

782
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,000
be like. 
What do you think of the system 

783
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:53,880
and the support you've been 
getting? 

784
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:55,480
I'm going to be like, that's 
going to be 90%. 

785
00:38:55,720 --> 00:38:56,800
People are saying it's shift, 
yeah. 

786
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:58,440
Why? 
Why are we doing this? 

787
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,800
You don't need to. 
So yeah, I do. 

788
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,760
I do see why why they felt kind 
of let down by that. 

789
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,560
And it was maybe it was just a 
box ticking exercise is. 

790
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,080
What? 
Well, this is what I thought a 

791
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,360
lot of people were saying it, 
you know, this is just a box 

792
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:12,000
ticking. 
Exercise. 

793
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,560
We consulted parents. 
We consulted 1000 of them. 

794
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,960
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 
And then the other thing that 

795
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,960
feeds into that, and it may not 
be the case, but I think we've 

796
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:25,440
spoken to a few people and we've
tried to find the the one hour 

797
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,480
recording because a lot, you 
know, has it been put on there 

798
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,560
as a recording for people to 
watch at a later date? 

799
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,400
Yeah, because we tried to look 
at the other ones that were. 

800
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,840
And many families said, no, 
we've not been able to find it. 

801
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,040
We've searched for it and they 
haven't put it up so we can 

802
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:38,680
watch it at a later date and be 
part of that. 

803
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,800
You know, we couldn't be live 
and ask the questions. 

804
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,640
They should experience that. 
Which again, feeds into that. 

805
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,440
You're not telling us what's 
going on. 

806
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:46,880
Yeah. 
So we're going to put two and 

807
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,000
two together, and we may come up
with four, we may come up with 

808
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,640
five, but we'll work with what 
we've got. 

809
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,280
So again, going back to what 
this could mean for children 

810
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:57,840
with existing EHC. 
PS:. 

811
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,280
We don't know. 
The uncertainty is terrifying. 

812
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,280
Yeah, it genuinely is 
terrifying. 

813
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,560
It's almost worse to know 
nothing at all. 

814
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,040
It is worse if you know a ship 
plan. 

815
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,920
Yeah, you can prepare for it. 
Oh yeah, absolutely. 

816
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:15,400
But. 
When you don't know anything at 

817
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,200
all. 
And and these leaks as well. 

818
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,520
This is the other thing. 
They're unclear whether children

819
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,840
with EHC PS: will keep them. 
That's a big one. 

820
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:24,800
That's a big one. 
So you would have thought I'm 

821
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,000
leaking something. 
I'll say yeah, you're safe. 

822
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:28,480
Yeah. 
It's it's everybody else that 

823
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,280
comes afterwards. 
Yeah, first line, if you 

824
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,840
currently, if you, if your child
currently has an EHCP, this will

825
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,840
not be affected and carry on. 
It's just a little bit, yeah. 

826
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:41,800
And how many parents have fought
tooth and nail tribunals, God 

827
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,520
knows what else. 
Well, we know people that have 

828
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:44,760
to. 
Get EHCP. 

829
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,760
Years we we've talked about 
families that have remortgaged 

830
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:48,880
their homes. 
Yeah. 

831
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,600
And again, we're not 
scaremongering that it might be 

832
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:52,880
the case that you're not going 
to lose your EHCP. 

833
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:54,400
But no, they haven't stated 
either. 

834
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,480
But again, to be fair to them, 
this was a leak. 

835
00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:59,320
The white paper hasn't been 
released. 

836
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,400
If the white paper comes out and
it's not in there and there's 

837
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,040
there's details missing, then 
obviously excuse me about it, 

838
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,360
but. 
We need to talk about what's in 

839
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:09,840
front of. 
Us exactly we need all we can do

840
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,160
is talk about. 
What's going to prepare people 

841
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:13,800
or just make them aware? 
Exactly. 

842
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,920
But again, with the HCPS, 
removing that legal rights 

843
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,120
usually means reduced or removed
support. 

844
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:25,840
Yeah, so again, not 
scaremongering, but as parents 

845
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,520
you should not assume that your 
child's safe. 

846
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:31,880
In that sense, no, definitely 
don't assume. 

847
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,840
And I think it would be wrong to
think that everything's going to

848
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,880
be rosy and everything's going 
to be fine because it is a 

849
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:38,960
reform. 
It's a reform. 

850
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:43,920
It does mean change. 
This is I've just what what's 

851
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,400
kind of bugged me with it is 
they've like completely 

852
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,040
overhauled or they're going to 
completely overhaul the system 

853
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:54,200
from top to bottom by the looks 
instead of kind of fine tuning 

854
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,120
things that weren't working. 
Do you know what I mean? 

855
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:01,160
Like EHCP for example, like 
they've talked about digital IDs

856
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:02,400
for actually we haven't 
mentioned. 

857
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,040
That we're coming on to. 
That bit, the digital IDs bit 

858
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:10,240
for for the children, I'm 
absolutely for digitising the 

859
00:42:10,240 --> 00:42:12,440
system. 
That's what it needs because 

860
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,200
they've had a paperwork, like 
actual paperwork, that is still 

861
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,320
flying around. 
Well, that you should be able to

862
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:18,960
digitise the system. 
Yeah, exactly. 

863
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,000
But that. 
Shouldn't be too hard and you 

864
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:22,120
should be able to do that 
without most. 

865
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,920
Private ideas to companies, 
yeah, are digitised. 

866
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,040
Jesus Christ, just go to Tesco, 
look at the club card. 

867
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:28,680
Just get a Google Drive, guys. 
Yeah, no. 

868
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,280
There's no need if you. 
There's no need for it to be 

869
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:33,000
like this. 
No. 

870
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,600
To be this. 
Oh, painful. 

871
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,040
Yeah. 
Time consuming. 

872
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,720
Yeah. 
What am I filling out Paperwork.

873
00:42:40,720 --> 00:42:43,920
Yeah, exactly. 
I can log into account and do 

874
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:45,560
everything there. 
Oh look, when you have to fill 

875
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,000
in your EHCP review, we're still
doing that. 

876
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:48,960
Like do. 
You know what? 

877
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,000
And you have to write it from 
the perspective of your child 

878
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:53,920
and then what you think is. 
But there's various other 

879
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:58,360
services for the government that
is digitalised just again, this 

880
00:42:58,360 --> 00:42:59,680
will affect many families as 
well. 

881
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,600
Child Maintenance Service. 
It's it's a digitised system. 

882
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,280
Yeah, it's shit, but it's but 
it's digitised. 

883
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,080
Yeah, yeah. 
Because it makes money, yeah. 

884
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:11,480
It's just bizarre, but I don't 
know why they haven't 

885
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:13,600
implemented that stuff because 
that would have been cost 

886
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:15,280
saving. 
And again, like I think we've 

887
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,240
said, we've said before, yes, it
needs more money, but let's 

888
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:22,240
first figure out if we can just 
spend efficiently first, then we

889
00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:25,480
know how much more we need. 
But they're just throwing. 

890
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,960
But this is creating more 
paperwork for everyone now to 

891
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,080
get their heads round on top of 
what they were doing before. 

892
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,520
Yeah. 
So it's it's again, it seems 

893
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,240
crazy. 
You you again a very simplistic 

894
00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:39,200
term. 
So you would have thought, yeah,

895
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,800
digitalized system got the the 
wastage and time in. 

896
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,560
There, right where we at now, 
we've got a baseline. 

897
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:46,760
Wait a minute, we haven't got 
enough staff that specialised in

898
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:48,080
this right? 
Do a massive recruitment 

899
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,520
campaign like you did for Core 
subject to GCSE teachers. 

900
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:53,680
Give them bursaries. 
They're just pulling whatever. 

901
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,800
The case may be get more people 
specialised in this. 

902
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,320
So what happens next? 
Well, none of this is confirmed 

903
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:09,720
it's a leak, but the key thing 
here is the consistency of these

904
00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:13,000
leaks matters. 
If this isn't a leak, some 

905
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:17,560
absolute fucking loser has just 
decided to type this out. 

906
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:23,080
They'd leak it to a newspaper. 
Like let's be honest like this, 

907
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,400
there's no smoke without fire. 
This has come from somewhere 

908
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,200
legit. 
Well, for, for for a paper like 

909
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,360
the I paper and the Financial 
Times, to produce something, you

910
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,160
must have a source. 
Yeah. 

911
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:35,760
That, you know, and it is 
reliable. 

912
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:39,080
I can't just turn up to the 
Financial Times I paper and go, 

913
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:40,680
guess what? 
I've got a leak. 

914
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,120
Here it is. 
And I go, do you know what? 

915
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,000
That sounds absolutely credible.
Who are you? 

916
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,040
That doesn't matter. 
Doesn't matter. 

917
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,320
So the leak says that all 
children will be sent to the 

918
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:51,400
Isle of Man. 
Yeah. 

919
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:52,760
And educated there. 
Yeah. 

920
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:54,280
All right. 
That sounds reasonable. 

921
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:55,760
Yeah, I'll print that. 
We'll put it out. 

922
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:57,880
Yeah. 
So it has to be has to be 

923
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:02,080
credible. 
But going back to your point, 

924
00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:05,880
because there's some really 
interesting things here. 

925
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:10,520
There's digital IDs and things 
like that. 

926
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:18,160
So, so one of the things again, 
just go back to the the legal 

927
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:22,440
side of things and the key thing
here, the system quietly shifts 

928
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:27,560
legal decision making from law 
to discretion. 

929
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,080
And I don't think a lot of 
people that have kind of 

930
00:45:31,720 --> 00:45:34,000
realised what that means. 
Sneaky, that is. 

931
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,360
So a lot of the commentary is 
focusing on the different tiers 

932
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:41,240
that we've mentioned from the 
leagues, the removal of EHCPS, 

933
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:44,480
funding cuts. 
But there's also a deeper issue 

934
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,320
that's kind of, I don't know, 
just kind of slid under, isn't 

935
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,600
it? 
These reforms don't just change 

936
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:55,680
support, they change who has the
power to decide. 

937
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:02,360
And what's new and under 
discussed so far is our current 

938
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:03,800
system. 
As we've mentioned many times, 

939
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:07,240
and many parents will say at 
least we have it, it's law 

940
00:46:07,240 --> 00:46:11,760
based, you have the individual 
assessment, you have statutory 

941
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,400
duties and there are enforceable
rights. 

942
00:46:15,720 --> 00:46:19,040
The LEAP system appears to be 
discretion based. 

943
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:25,240
So now schools decide how 
funding is used, teachers decide

944
00:46:25,240 --> 00:46:30,400
what support is classed as 
reasonable and parents lose 

945
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:35,840
meaningful appeal routes. 
So this isn't just a reform. 

946
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:40,320
You could potentially say it's a
constitutional shift inside 

947
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,840
education for our children. 
How many messages do we get 

948
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,880
where schools have been given 
funding and it's been misspent? 

949
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:49,360
Oh. 
Loads. 

950
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:50,760
Now they just get to choose how 
they spend it. 

951
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,480
But now, now you, you can't even
ask the question. 

952
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,360
No, you can't. 
No, you can ask the question. 

953
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:56,800
They don't have to answer it. 
I will. 

954
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,320
I don't have to answer that. 
I don't have to answer that. 

955
00:46:59,720 --> 00:47:02,040
And just for that, I'm going to 
take another £10 out a little 

956
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:03,840
Timmy's fund and put it 
somewhere else. 

957
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,800
Yeah. 
So why this, why this matters? 

958
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:13,680
So discretion without legal duty
basically means we could be in a

959
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,720
post code lottery once more. 
Yeah, I mean, we're already in 

960
00:47:16,720 --> 00:47:19,760
one. 
It's like even worse. 

961
00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:24,520
That's what's going to happen. 
It's going to happen, Yeah. 

962
00:47:24,720 --> 00:47:26,520
We've seen it on so many 
different things. 

963
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:27,600
Yeah. 
And now we're going to throw 

964
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,240
education in there as well. 
Two identical children with 

965
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:34,560
completely different outcomes. 
Yeah, but that's that's true, 

966
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:36,400
isn't it? 
Yeah, two identical children 

967
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:40,960
could receive entirely different
support depending on it could 

968
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:42,920
even be in the same area on the 
school. 

969
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,920
It actually could still be in 
the same town or city. 

970
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:47,320
This is what the post code thing
is. 

971
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:49,040
We used to call it a post code 
lottery. 

972
00:47:49,240 --> 00:47:51,920
It wasn't really because, 
generally speaking, it was 

973
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,600
countrywide. 
Yeah, whatever trust you were 

974
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:55,200
in. 
Exactly. 

975
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:56,240
And now whatever. 
Trust. 

976
00:47:56,240 --> 00:47:57,840
Yeah. 
And now it's going to depend on.

977
00:47:58,080 --> 00:47:59,960
You could be just at a different
school on the other end of the 

978
00:47:59,960 --> 00:48:00,520
town. 
Yep. 

979
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,640
So, so 2 identical children can 
receive entirely different 

980
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:07,000
support depending on what the 
school leadership is like, the 

981
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:11,240
budget pressure that school is 
under and staff confidence. 

982
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,520
Yeah, and that could literally. 
It could change depending on the

983
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,320
political leading of a of a head
teacher. 

984
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:20,880
OK, kind of liberal. 
I I believe you know. 

985
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:22,480
I know. 
Like, get out there, do some 

986
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,560
more walks in the fresh air. 
That might sort. 

987
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:27,880
That out but on the flip side if
you're a head teacher that's got

988
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:34,360
that that has an autistic child 
autistic for example, yeah, you 

989
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:37,840
might benefit yeah but then 
you'll have that's not right it 

990
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:39,760
should be like that but. 
Then you can have parents go 

991
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:41,160
well, of course he's going to 
favour that. 

992
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:42,880
He's misspending the money. 
Exactly why? 

993
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:44,120
Because you've got 2 disabled 
kids. 

994
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,320
Oh, she's misspending the money.
There's, there's a massive 

995
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:51,160
change. 
This, this is a massive change. 

996
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,120
And people aren't really kind of
realising this just yet. 

997
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:56,920
And I think that's really 
important that they do. 

998
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,600
And it's, it's happening without
anybody saying it out loud. 

999
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:06,120
So we're not debating support 
models, we're debating whether 

1000
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,600
disabled children still have 
legal rights or whether their 

1001
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:13,440
future depends on who happens to
be in charge of that school. 

1002
00:49:13,720 --> 00:49:16,440
Of that school exactly and. 
What happens when the leadership

1003
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:17,880
changes? 
Because that happens quite a 

1004
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:18,480
lot. 
In some schools. 

1005
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:20,720
They head teacher last two years
and then they've moved on. 

1006
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:22,840
You're losing your EHCP. 
Why? 

1007
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:24,560
Because I'm a bit right wing. 
All. 

1008
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:28,520
Right. 
It could be so. 

1009
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:33,000
That will literally, again 
reframe the whole debate for 

1010
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:34,760
that school. 
It's funny with the the send 

1011
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,400
digital passports for send 
coming up because it seems like 

1012
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:42,080
ever since digital passports. 
Was it's been knocked around a 

1013
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:43,240
bit. 
It's been knocked about a bit 

1014
00:49:43,240 --> 00:49:44,520
and we've all. 
Who do we give it to 1st? 

1015
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:46,360
It's. 
Generally knocked it back, yeah,

1016
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:48,680
pretty hard. 
I think it's like 80 odd percent

1017
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,040
of the country like get. 
Stuff a lot of people like, no, 

1018
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:52,880
you're already in my business. 
And lots of stuff. 

1019
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,080
So with this, it's like, OK, 
cool, well, for your child to 

1020
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:57,800
get the support they need, 
they're going to have to have 

1021
00:49:57,800 --> 00:49:59,080
one. 
It was a bit like Keir Starmer, 

1022
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,440
who says you're not going to be 
able to work in the UK unless 

1023
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:05,120
you've got a digital passport 
and everybody just went and get 

1024
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:07,360
fucked. 
This is just you. 

1025
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:09,000
Still need us to work because 
you still need the taxes. 

1026
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,360
Exactly, so with this it feels 
like the other way around. 

1027
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:13,960
Like if you want your kid to get
the support, if you refuse, if 

1028
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,640
you refuse the digital send 
passport, that's on you. 

1029
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:18,640
You clearly don't want them to 
get the support. 

1030
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:19,960
They. 
Need, you know, you need a 

1031
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:24,440
digital passport, so the digital
send passport and this is 

1032
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:28,560
another risk that people need to
get their head around it. 

1033
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,720
It potentially could become a 
compliance tool, as you said. 

1034
00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:35,800
Yeah, not a support tool. 
Yeah, we'll dress it up as 

1035
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:36,520
that's. 
Why? 

1036
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,840
It just seems to have come out 
around the same time. 

1037
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:41,800
Yeah. 
So you can hear the words 

1038
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:43,760
digital passport, and everyone 
thinks, you know, that's really 

1039
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:45,680
efficient. 
Yeah, but there's some hidden 

1040
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:49,320
risks in there. 
I guess the unspoken danger 

1041
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:55,320
about it is this could become a 
cap on support, not a reflection

1042
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:56,840
on the need of the need of the 
child. 

1043
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:03,680
Yeah, a static label that 
follows your child. 

1044
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:05,840
And they're gonna have that for 
life like your. 

1045
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:07,160
Digital password says you're 
this. 

1046
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:09,960
Everyone else could refuse the 
digital, digital ID, digital 

1047
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:12,160
passport. 
They'll have it for life because

1048
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,240
they're disabled, yeah. 
And it also becomes a 

1049
00:51:15,240 --> 00:51:19,600
justification for why nothing 
more can be done for your child.

1050
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,320
So like, if we work into that 
tier system, if the passport 

1051
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:28,480
says Tier 2 support provided, 
then as a school, you could 

1052
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:32,040
argue, well, there's the right 
support was offered, the process

1053
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,360
was followed. 
Yeah, there is no escalation 

1054
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:35,720
required. 
Yeah, it's that process, but 

1055
00:51:35,720 --> 00:51:36,720
again, isn't it? 
You can preview. 

1056
00:51:36,720 --> 00:51:40,920
Digital Passport says that. 
So even if your child, your 

1057
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:46,880
child is drowning and clearly 
can't cope, this creates kind of

1058
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:51,000
administrative proof without 
educational outcomes. 

1059
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:56,240
So a digital passport might show
that support was recorded, not 

1060
00:51:56,240 --> 00:51:58,400
that it actually worked. 
And that's the thing. 

1061
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,840
We go to the passport, say, 
look, all the support was 

1062
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:04,800
provided, but then you argue, 
well, none of it actually 

1063
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:05,720
worked. 
OK, cleaned up. 

1064
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,720
We followed the process. 
The digital passport says this. 

1065
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:11,440
And where do you go from then 
exactly? 

1066
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:12,680
Nowhere. 
And you've gone over the phone. 

1067
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:13,640
Go. 
You go nowhere. 

1068
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:14,800
Nowhere. 
You can't appeal. 

1069
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:18,560
And this is something that you 
need to get your heads round 

1070
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:24,200
about this. 
It's not, it's not like a oh, we

1071
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:28,320
just don't do it to make life 
easier because nothing in this 

1072
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,520
sounds like it's making life 
easier for us and families. 

1073
00:52:31,240 --> 00:52:33,200
No, it's making life easier for 
them. 

1074
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:35,720
It's making a life a lot easier 
for the. 

1075
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:38,720
Powers that be. 
Yeah, none of this looks like 

1076
00:52:38,720 --> 00:52:42,200
it's actually go on. 
This will make us send families 

1077
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:43,840
life easier. 
I think it will, it will 

1078
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:48,880
streamline if, if everybody was 
like the system itself, I'm sure

1079
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:52,080
is going to work quite well. 
But it's going to, and when I 

1080
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,720
say work, I mean it's going to 
do what they want it to do. 

1081
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:56,840
Oh yeah. 
Yeah, I reckon it's going to be 

1082
00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:00,840
pretty slick, but it's going to 
be an absolute fucking nightmare

1083
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:02,760
for countless parents and their 
kids. 

1084
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:06,000
Yeah, yeah, this sounds 
horrible. 

1085
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:07,560
This will cost lives. 
Yeah, well. 

1086
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:11,560
This will cost lives. 
Yeah, and children as well as 

1087
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:12,680
parents. 
How many? 

1088
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:15,360
And this is something that 
happens as well. 

1089
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:20,000
And if if you're an MP or 
somebody in this process, I hope

1090
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:21,320
you fucking listen to this as 
well. 

1091
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:27,280
The amount of parents that have 
contacted us, even though the 

1092
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,960
child has EHCPS, but they're not
being followed properly. 

1093
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:34,720
The amount of parents that have 
had to say to us, my child is 

1094
00:53:34,720 --> 00:53:38,920
talking about ending their life.
Yeah, and we had that one dad at

1095
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:41,720
the very beginning and that 
caused many, many other families

1096
00:53:41,720 --> 00:53:43,280
to reach out. 
Go, my kids 9. 

1097
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,440
And she's talking like that. 
Nine years old, can't cope, 

1098
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:51,120
doesn't want to be here anymore.
And then how many parents are 

1099
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:52,680
going to go? 
I just can't cope with this. 

1100
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:55,440
I just can't. 
There's I can't do anything. 

1101
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:57,280
I feel helpless. 
The only way out is. 

1102
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:01,200
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
You're going to record that in 

1103
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:03,000
your digital passports. 
Yeah, because that's happening 

1104
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:04,480
now. 
Yeah, that's happening now with 

1105
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:05,680
the legal. 
Framework that we have. 

1106
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:11,040
So put this in place, Yeah. 
And how many parents again are 

1107
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:13,920
able to navigate the system as 
it is? 

1108
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:16,000
Well, do you know how many times
me and you've responded to 

1109
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:17,600
someone asking for help and 
we've gone? 

1110
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,880
This is what you need to do. 
You do this, you do this. 

1111
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:23,320
Here's a letter template. 
Fill that in with all your 

1112
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:24,720
details. 
Send that. 

1113
00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:27,800
When they don't respond after X 
amount of weeks, then you send 

1114
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:29,640
this letter and you do this, 
this, this. 

1115
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:31,520
There's not going to be any of 
that. 

1116
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:33,760
Yeah. 
Because all of that is about 

1117
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:36,280
appealing and rights, yeah. 
And legal framework. 

1118
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:37,800
We're not going to be able to 
advise people like that. 

1119
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:39,720
We're not going to be able to 
give them templated letters. 

1120
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:44,080
Yeah, yeah. 
We need to, we need to speak 

1121
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:46,000
about Davey. 
We should do. 

1122
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:47,720
I reckon we try and speak to 
him. 

1123
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:50,200
I think we should because at 
least he understands this at. 

1124
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:51,920
Least he gets it, yeah. 
Yeah, and I'm sure there's many 

1125
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:54,640
other MPs that have family 
members that will be affected by

1126
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:56,760
this. 
Maybe they should be the ones 

1127
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,480
trying to fix the system. 
Well, I'm sure he's going to be 

1128
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:02,680
very vocal. 
I hope so when the white paper 

1129
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:04,160
comes out. 
I hope so. 

1130
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:08,360
And then the other thing, this 
system quietly redefines what 

1131
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:12,840
early intervention means and it 
becomes early containment. 

1132
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:16,920
So ministers keep saying early 
intervention, that seems to be 

1133
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:20,640
the buzzword at the moment, but 
what's actually being proposed 

1134
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:23,560
in these leaks actually does the
opposite. 

1135
00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:28,800
So early intervention to us 
means and to many other families

1136
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:33,880
means you identify the needs 
early, you assess it properly, 

1137
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:36,640
and then you put the right 
support in place. 

1138
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:40,080
And in an ideal world world, 
that's how it's supposed to 

1139
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:42,080
work. 
We know for some people it works

1140
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:43,680
like that, some people it 
doesn't. 

1141
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:49,120
Sorry, go. 
On now what it risks or now at 

1142
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:54,600
risk, meaning you place children
in the lowest tier possible. 

1143
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:58,160
Yeah, of course you do you. 
Start off level 1 you. 

1144
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:00,080
Put them as low as you possibly 
can. 

1145
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:06,160
You've got to work your way up 
and that delays escalation and 

1146
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:10,120
that is a great way to manage 
cost and risk and not the actual

1147
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:12,480
need of the child. 
I'm just looking here. 

1148
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:16,440
It's obviously aliens of engine 
versus early containment. 

1149
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:20,000
See, they were containment. 
So that reminds me of this is 

1150
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:23,480
like being an 80s kid. 
Ghostbusters, that big thing 

1151
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:25,360
that is to catch ghosts in 
contain them. 

1152
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:26,840
That was that was the 
containment field. 

1153
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:29,800
Whatever the field it was 
called, it was like you catch 

1154
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:31,560
him, stick him in there, forget 
about him. 

1155
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:33,720
They're done. 
It feels like it's like, OK, 

1156
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:36,360
let's identify him. 
OK, cool. 

1157
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:39,520
They're everywhere and I let's 
just, I can keep them over 

1158
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:43,480
there, keep everybody quiet. 
Do you think as well in going 

1159
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:47,240
through this process that you 
would have thought out, OK, say 

1160
00:56:47,240 --> 00:56:50,880
we have, I don't know, I'll pick
a number, 2,000,000 cent 

1161
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:52,880
children in the UK. 
It might be more, might be less.

1162
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:54,160
I haven't got the figures in 
front of me. 

1163
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:57,560
Do you do a cost analysis of 
that and say, well, let's play 

1164
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:00,120
with the different figures? 
How much does it cost if 2 

1165
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:04,960
million has HCPS? 
How much does it cost if 50% of 

1166
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:11,960
them are level 1, 20% level 2? 
Yeah, you know, 10% and 10% 

1167
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:15,240
Level 3 and four, yeah. 
What's that cost analysis model 

1168
00:57:15,240 --> 00:57:17,760
look like to the, to the yearly 
expenditure? 

1169
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:20,000
Do we play around with these 
figures, move the slide up a 

1170
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:21,360
little bit and see what happens 
then? 

1171
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:26,840
Yeah, all these factors come 
into into play because we know 

1172
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:29,640
like, you know, we've said this 
when you're born there's a price

1173
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:30,720
attached to you, isn't there? 
Yeah. 

1174
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:32,960
How much it? 
Costs to educate you how much it

1175
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:36,960
costs you to get you into the 
working environment and then how

1176
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:40,840
much you return on average in 
terms of revenue or tax over 

1177
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:44,560
your lifetime, NHS costs and 
everything else like that for 

1178
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:48,200
you before you you die. 
It's all part of it, isn't it? 

1179
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:52,640
15%, so it's between 15 and 20%,
but it might be more than 

1180
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:54,920
obviously we had a conversation 
with Ben and me last week. 

1181
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:59,160
Even if it was 15%, that's about
10 million people. 

1182
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:03,760
OK. 
Yeah. 

1183
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:05,920
So we what we talking about here
return on investment. 

1184
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:09,200
Yeah, exactly. 
And obviously the, you know, a 

1185
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:11,760
decent percentage of that is 
going to be high functioning, 

1186
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:13,960
you know. 
Yeah. 

1187
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:15,960
And they won't have each EPS and
stuff like that. 

1188
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:21,040
But yeah, it's pretty scary and 
it is, it is going to be a 

1189
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:23,880
profit loss, yeah, type deal. 
That's what it's going to be. 

1190
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:26,520
That's our government's tense. 
They work like businesses, don't

1191
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:27,240
they? 
That's kind of well. 

1192
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:29,560
You'd like to think they work 
like businesses, but I don't 

1193
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:31,760
know many businesses that just 
piss money up the wall. 

1194
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:34,920
I know, but they throw money to 
one side, don't they? 

1195
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:38,600
And avoid paying. 
Yeah, you know, they buy shit 

1196
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:40,360
they don't need to to avoid 
paying tax. 

1197
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:42,760
And, well, it's easy to go after
disabled children than it is to 

1198
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:44,120
go to the Cayman Islands, isn't 
it? 

1199
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:46,800
And and this is and it's it's a 
sad fact. 

1200
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:53,560
I kind of saying it late is kind
of hard, but if this does go 

1201
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:57,360
sideways, as a community, we 
need to get vocal. 

1202
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:01,080
And I don't mean, like, 
obviously not smashing shit up, 

1203
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:04,280
but we need to be heard. 
And sometimes it's hard to be 

1204
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:05,800
heard because everyone is so 
busy. 

1205
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:09,160
This isn't like something that 
affects you, whether it be 

1206
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:12,080
farmers, for example, and they 
kick off because they're being 

1207
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:12,920
shafted. 
Yep. 

1208
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:15,360
Well, they're getting the 
tractors because they can. 

1209
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:19,640
And they go and block roads. 
A lot of parents, when this is 

1210
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:21,560
happening, they feel so 
helpless. 

1211
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,400
They can't leave the house, a 
lot of them. 

1212
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:26,960
So yeah. 
You can't get to a rally in 

1213
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:28,080
London. 
You can't get to a rally in 

1214
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:29,440
London. 
They haven't got the money to 

1215
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:31,040
get to a rally in London. 
Of course not. 

1216
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:34,280
But it's these, these are the 
things that make it easy. 

1217
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:36,360
Yeah. 
To to have disabilities as a 

1218
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:37,520
target. 
Because what? 

1219
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:39,160
Are you going to do about it? 
What are you going to do? 

1220
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:40,040
You're. 
Going to do. 

1221
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:41,000
You're going to come down here. 
Right. 

1222
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:42,920
What are you going to? 
Do you have fidget spinners? 

1223
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:44,680
Exactly what you're going to do 
and is it? 

1224
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:47,400
I think it is a bit like that. 
Well, I say if it if it does go 

1225
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:52,880
sideways, then you find your 
local MP, you get every family 

1226
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:57,960
member who's affected or is in 
your child's life. 

1227
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:05,080
You hammer that that MPs. 
Inbox continuously every family 

1228
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:07,760
does that so they got nothing 
they can actually look at no 

1229
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:11,200
other cases but everything in 
their inbox 90% of it is hammer.

1230
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:15,560
It is hammering them about this,
yeah, with the reminder that 

1231
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:18,680
there is election coming about 
your seats, not. 

1232
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:21,680
Seen Is it three years time now?
Two years, three years, Who 

1233
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:23,560
knows? 
Who knows what Mr Starmer wants 

1234
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:28,440
to do? 
Yeah, but you just make it 

1235
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:32,200
uncomfortable that this is the 
only topic that matters. 

1236
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:36,640
Not about someone's legal 
boundary on a bloody fence or 

1237
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:40,120
something like that. 
No, you just hammer them again 

1238
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:41,880
and again. 
I haven't had a response to my 

1239
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:45,280
e-mail of two weeks ago. 
Every member of the family does 

1240
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:47,480
exactly the same. 
Yeah. 

1241
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:52,920
It's within your rights, it's 
still legal, but you make it 

1242
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:56,400
such a big talking point that it
can't be avoided. 

1243
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,560
And it's all very well. 
It's great having the campaigns 

1244
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:03,560
where we, we all attach our 
signature to something that, you

1245
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:06,760
know, they, they're great and 
they have a place and they are 

1246
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:11,200
important to do. 
But they essentially get handed 

1247
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:13,920
into Downing St and I don't know
what that gets done with it. 

1248
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:19,080
X amount have to be have to be 
signed don't they for them to to

1249
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:20,840
have a conversation. 
And then OK. 

1250
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:22,440
Cool, they have a conversation 
then what? 

1251
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:25,080
It doesn't enforce anything. 
It's a very good point and I'm 

1252
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:27,440
glad you raised it and I've 
spoken to many blah blah I. 

1253
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:30,400
Don't think I've ever seen one 
that is actually coming to 

1254
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:33,440
fruition. 
I I think you just absolutely 

1255
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:36,160
find your local MPs, you get 
into the community and you 

1256
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:38,040
organise yourselves. 
Yeah, you need to do things that

1257
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:41,320
directly affect them. 
And signing the petition and 

1258
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:43,480
then being forced to have a 
conversation for 10 minutes in 

1259
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:47,120
down, in, down in Parliament 
isn't really affecting them, No.

1260
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:49,520
They have much more difficult 
conversations behind closed 

1261
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:50,720
doors. 
The risk of them losing their 

1262
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:54,240
seats and just not being able to
get any other work apart from 

1263
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:55,760
this. 
I've seen Kemi Bade Knocks move 

1264
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:58,800
to reform, by the way. 
Yeah, No, not Kemi Bade Knocks. 

1265
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:02,760
She's that's fine now. 
It's not Kemi, it's the former. 

1266
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:04,960
Of course, if she moved to 
reform, that's out of a step 

1267
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:07,280
down from. 
Braverman. 

1268
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:11,120
Suela, yeah, Suela Braverman 
reform. 

1269
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:15,280
They're all jumping ship and. 
They So the Reform Party is just

1270
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:19,960
going to be the old Tory party. 
But my point there is that they 

1271
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:22,480
want to keep their jobs. 
Yeah, I'll change. 

1272
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:25,200
I'll change my policies. 
Oh yeah, they want to, they want

1273
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:27,080
to keep their jobs. 
They'll, they'll hop, skip and 

1274
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:30,600
jump if they, if they need to, 
absolutely feel that your vote 

1275
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:32,400
might go elsewhere. 
Unfortunately, that's all we've 

1276
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:33,720
got. 
But it's pretty powerful. 

1277
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:38,600
Yeah. 
So again, going back to the this

1278
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:40,880
that's not intervention. 
This is containment. 

1279
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:46,840
Containment always breaks first 
on autistic children, PDA 

1280
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:50,480
profiles trauma affected kids, 
children's whose distress is 

1281
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:53,240
misread as. 
Labelled behaviour, yeah. 

1282
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:58,520
So early interventions should 
stop children from failing, but 

1283
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:01,480
this new system requires failure
as evidence. 

1284
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:07,280
Yeah, yeah. 
How, as a parent, do you want to

1285
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:09,520
keep setting your child up to 
fail just to get what? 

1286
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:11,000
I know you mentioned it early on
with. 

1287
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:12,240
Yeah. 
But again, that wasn't, but that

1288
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:14,360
wasn't, that wasn't kind of a 
process. 

1289
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:16,360
Yeah, that wasn't a recommended 
process. 

1290
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:19,080
That was just us going this is 
what we need to do. 

1291
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:20,800
In fact, it was my 
mother-in-law. 

1292
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:22,920
She was the one that went, this 
is what you need to do. 

1293
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:25,600
It wasn't a suggested process. 
It wasn't a recommendation. 

1294
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:28,360
It was just like, OK, we need, 
we need him to fail. 

1295
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:29,760
And it was awful putting him 
through it. 

1296
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:33,840
But in the long run it worked. 
But the level of failure these 

1297
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:37,080
kids are going to have to go 
through to get what they need, 

1298
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:41,920
it's on another level. 
But if you, if you are a symbol 

1299
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:43,800
between, you're in mainstream, 
right? 

1300
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:46,920
We're all talking about building
a child's confidence. 

1301
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:48,480
Yeah. 
Guess what? 

1302
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:50,120
No, no. 
You failed again, mate. 

1303
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:50,560
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1304
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:52,080
You keep failing. 
Yeah. 

1305
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:53,680
Oh, yeah. 
Failure. 

1306
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:55,280
You're a failure. 
Yeah, you're a failure. 

1307
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:56,320
Treating. 
You're a failure. 

1308
01:03:56,680 --> 01:03:58,520
You're a failure. 
You're not succeeding. 

1309
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:01,840
The other kids start going. 
Oh, yeah, you're a failure, you 

1310
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:03,720
know, But you've managed to get 
yourself to Level 3 now. 

1311
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:04,640
Yeah. 
Well done. 

1312
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:06,320
So it depends what you think 
failure is. 

1313
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:09,840
A failure, you've got to Tier 3.
Is that failure? 

1314
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:10,760
Well, it depends how you look at
it. 

1315
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:11,760
You. 
Know what you would have got 

1316
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:16,160
your EHCP but you've just 
completed GCS ES so the systems 

1317
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:17,520
work for the government. 
That's it. 

1318
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:19,120
How long are these tiers going 
to be? 

1319
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:20,920
How long do they? 
How long is it going to take to 

1320
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:22,320
get through? 
Everyone starts on level one. 

1321
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:25,120
Yeah, everyone starts on level. 
One is it like, OK, well you've 

1322
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:27,520
got 12 months now to so if. 
You start at level 1 when the 

1323
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:29,280
kids three years old. 
Well, you might have a chance. 

1324
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:32,240
To get out there, we'll reassess
you in 12 months, but still, 

1325
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:36,000
you're still Tier 1. 
As many parents, I should have 

1326
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:37,600
gone through the process 
earlier, but I didn't realise. 

1327
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:39,520
Now they've gone to senior 
school, I'm noticing it all now.

1328
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:41,760
I'm noticing the difference of 
reach, puberty, whatever. 

1329
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:43,840
The whole, you know, we're 
starting the process when 

1330
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:48,080
they're 12. 
Oh, but the process is XY and Z,

1331
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:50,440
so by the time they actually get
the support they need, they're 

1332
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:51,080
already screwed. 
Oh. 

1333
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:54,280
I can't wait for this white 
paper. 

1334
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:58,560
So again, this is not this is. 
I've got to stress this, this is

1335
01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:02,520
a leak. 
It's not verbatim or what's 

1336
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:05,600
actually going to come out. 
It's been leaked for a reason 

1337
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:06,920
though, so we can only look at 
it. 

1338
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:11,080
Yeah, this is not us doing a 
policy analysis. 

1339
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:14,800
This is very much from a 
parent's point of view looking 

1340
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:19,560
at this, who we're trying to be 
very much system aware in what's

1341
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:23,240
going on. 
And the bit we've kind of 

1342
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:28,520
discussed at the very end the 
the shift away from legal 

1343
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:34,240
decision making that's looking 
at digital passports as well as 

1344
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:39,600
a compliance tool, maybe not as 
a support tool, how the system 

1345
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:43,760
is quietly redefining what early
intervention means versus what 

1346
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:46,520
actually could be called early 
containment. 

1347
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:50,280
Again, it's, it's our 
perspective as two parents 

1348
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:53,840
looking at it. 
We're not experts in the field. 

1349
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:56,760
We're just kind of got enough 
experience of dealing with the 

1350
01:05:56,760 --> 01:06:02,120
HCP's life as a send parent. 
Now we can look at this and go, 

1351
01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:03,160
well, that's not going to work, 
is it? 

1352
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:05,400
How's that going to work? 
Yeah, the, the big one is what's

1353
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:08,160
going to protect these, protect 
these, these kids from a legal 

1354
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:09,040
perspective. 
Yeah. 

1355
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:11,000
And if legal rights are removed 
and decisions become 

1356
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:13,800
discretionary, Yeah. 
What exactly protects disabled 

1357
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:17,880
children when budgets are tight,
staff are stretched and no one 

1358
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:19,640
agrees on that's what, enough 
support? 

1359
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:20,800
Yeah. 
Well, no one agrees on what 

1360
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:23,440
enough support looks like. 
Like, well, this is it. 

1361
01:06:23,480 --> 01:06:25,760
As a parent, if I go now, well, 
I don't agree with that's enough

1362
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:26,560
support. 
Who decides? 

1363
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:28,000
Well, additional passports, 
apparently. 

1364
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:30,400
Yeah, on your way. 
Yeah. 

1365
01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:35,800
So there's a lot to digest here,
and this is only a snippet. 

1366
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:39,160
And this is like a, this is a 
teeny tiny bit of what this 

1367
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:41,360
white paper is going to be. 
Or could be. 

1368
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:43,120
Could be sorry, could be, could 
be. 

1369
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:51,840
Yeah, that'll be a long episode.
Yeah, but when it comes out, oh,

1370
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:55,840
we've got to digest that. 
Yeah, have to get solicitor on 

1371
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:57,200
as well. 
Yeah, probably. 

1372
01:06:58,840 --> 01:06:59,800
There we go. 
So. 

1373
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:04,600
That's that. 
Sorry, but you know. 

1374
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:06,320
It's big news, we. 
Had to talk about it. 

1375
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:11,360
It's big news now. 
Slightly more uplifting in fact.

1376
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:16,160
I'll tell you what mate, the 
community we've built since 

1377
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:18,520
obviously the Discord community 
that we've that we started, 

1378
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:20,360
well, we've got about 180 people
in there. 

1379
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:21,160
Ish Yeah. 
Wow. 

1380
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:24,120
Yeah. 180, yeah. 
So. 

1381
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:28,120
Just under 30 people that have 
signed up to join the stim and 

1382
01:07:28,120 --> 01:07:29,160
whistle. 
Stim and whistle. 

1383
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:33,880
But again, this white paper, I 
imagine that community is going 

1384
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:39,560
to be really valuable, but maybe
in more of a supportive aspect 

1385
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:42,400
because there's going to be less
answers. 

1386
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:46,040
Yeah. 
Because yeah, as far as what do 

1387
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:47,400
I do in this situation, Fuck 
knows. 

1388
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:48,960
Fuck knows, because none of us 
know. 

1389
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:51,680
Yeah, it's going to be a little 
bit like that, but it's still 

1390
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:53,400
going to be valuable because 
there's going to be so much 

1391
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:55,440
support in there. 
Yeah, and the information will 

1392
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:57,960
start to trickle out. 
I'm just, you know, if, if you 

1393
01:07:57,960 --> 01:08:03,000
don't, a lot of people are are 
alone and the only people that 

1394
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:05,760
understand sometimes are those 
kind of people that are online 

1395
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:08,480
or in this sort of communities 
that we've built and various 

1396
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:12,360
other sent advocates have have 
built as well. 

1397
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:17,200
Get involved, get in there, sign
up, join up, look at what's 

1398
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:18,840
coming about. 
People are discussing. 

1399
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:20,960
Just familiarise yourself with 
stuff. 

1400
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:25,720
Educate yourself with 
information because you're going

1401
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:29,560
to have to be on your game when 
this comes out and you cannot 

1402
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:34,359
afford to be left behind. 
No, no, no, no, no, no. 

1403
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:39,160
And none of us want any other 
family to be left behind either.

1404
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:42,479
It's not dog eat dog or anything
like that. 

1405
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:47,960
No, it's that every child 
deserves an education, the 

1406
01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:52,319
health, the care plan that they 
need to reach their full 

1407
01:08:52,319 --> 01:08:56,680
potential. 
Tough one. 

1408
01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:58,080
Isn't it? 
Tough one. 

1409
01:08:59,399 --> 01:09:02,720
Well, hopefully that's. 
Hopefully, yeah, I'm just going 

1410
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:03,920
to go do a quick chat. 
Right? 

1411
01:09:04,359 --> 01:09:07,359
James Hunt stories about autism.
He's got a book coming out soon.

1412
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:09,720
I saw a little reel of. 
Him doing the audio book? 

1413
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:11,200
Yeah, he's recording. 
He saw. 

1414
01:09:11,319 --> 01:09:14,000
He's recording his audio. 
Congratulations, James, mate. 

1415
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:16,960
Yeah, well done. 
Well in You're now a published 

1416
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:19,240
author. 
WTF. 

1417
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:26,680
But yeah, if you want to join 
the community, you can't. 

1418
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:28,960
It's free. 
Get in there, links are 

1419
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:31,520
everywhere. 
Yeah, if you're you want to join

1420
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:32,800
the stem whistle. 
You want to join the STEM 

1421
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:33,880
whistle? 
It's £4 a. 

1422
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:37,200
Month 4 English Pounds. 1 LB a 
week. 1 LB a week and you can go

1423
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:39,800
in there whenever you like. 
Yeah, and chat to other parents 

1424
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:40,960
and. 
A few people in there last 

1425
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:42,120
night. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

1426
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:44,040
So that continues to grow. 
And what I'd like to happen is 

1427
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:46,080
it it grows to a certain extent.
It's like a proper pub. 

1428
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:48,720
You can just pop in any night of
the week or any time during the 

1429
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:50,439
day and there'll be people there
that you can just have a chat 

1430
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:52,720
with. 
That's it and carry on. 

1431
01:09:53,160 --> 01:09:57,200
And the other thing is we've got
this bloody London Marathon. 

1432
01:09:58,120 --> 01:10:01,520
We need the sponsors, we need 
the sponsors guy. 

1433
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:06,120
There's, there's 81,000 people 
at the moment on Instagram, 

1434
01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:08,560
We've just hit 30,000 people on 
Facebook. 

1435
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:12,480
We need to raise £5000 and at 
the moment we are stuck on 

1436
01:10:12,480 --> 01:10:14,640
£1600. 
This is how I'm going to put it,

1437
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:15,760
right? 
I don't want to sound like a 

1438
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:19,800
Dick, but I am going to sound a 
bit like a Dick if this podcast,

1439
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:25,040
which we do in our spare time 
with full time jobs and we love 

1440
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:26,760
doing it, don't get me wrong. 
And disabled children. 

1441
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:29,520
We do love it, full time jobs 
and disabled children like a lot

1442
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:34,880
of you guys. 
If if this podcast at any point 

1443
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:38,560
has been worth at least £0.50 to
you. 

1444
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:41,920
Yeah. 
Hopefully, hopefully, the 

1445
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:44,840
culmination of all 27 episodes 
will be worth more than £0.50 to

1446
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:46,960
you. 
But if it's worth just £0.50, 

1447
01:10:47,480 --> 01:10:52,120
please, please take 5 minutes, 
go to the link tree. 

1448
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:55,320
Less than that, Yeah. 
Take a minute, go to the link 

1449
01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:56,200
tree. 
On our bio. 

1450
01:10:56,440 --> 01:11:02,000
And just because we are getting 
dangerously close to the 

1451
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:06,480
marathon and we are 33% the way 
through. 

1452
01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:08,680
Yeah, we've only raised 33% of 
our target. 

1453
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:12,480
If you could all like I say if 
you think this podcast is is 

1454
01:11:12,480 --> 01:11:16,720
worth 50P, preferably more, but 
if it's worth £0.50 please. 

1455
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:21,080
If all of you went and donated 
50P that charity would be 

1456
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:23,400
getting a shit tonne of money 
and it would be all thanks to 

1457
01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:26,960
you and us running for a bit. 
In the charities ambitious about

1458
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:28,440
autism, we've mentioned them 
before. 

1459
01:11:28,440 --> 01:11:33,640
They do sterling work for our 
children. 

1460
01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:38,440
All of our, you know, autistic 
children, they also do amazing 

1461
01:11:38,440 --> 01:11:41,480
work on what happens after. 
That's the bit what happens 

1462
01:11:41,680 --> 01:11:44,760
after they leave full time 
education which a lot of parents

1463
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:47,400
are just shitting themselves. 
And I've been ignorant to up 

1464
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:49,240
until a meeting. 
We are at the school. 

1465
01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:51,040
And not just that they have 
access. 

1466
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:55,560
They can put pressure on policy.
Yeah, but they're a charity. 

1467
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:58,920
Yeah. 
And they require people stupid 

1468
01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:01,800
enough like us to go out there 
and run these ridiculous sort of

1469
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:05,120
events, as many other parents 
are doing as well to try and 

1470
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:08,400
raise funds. 
So again, we are going to sound 

1471
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:11,600
like a broken record, but if 
you've sent us an e-mail and 

1472
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:14,080
asked us for advice or help and 
we've gone there and we've 

1473
01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:16,760
helped you out, that's got to be
worth a pound. 

1474
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:20,640
All right, Pound doubled it, but
yeah, seriously, that was going.

1475
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:23,280
To be worth paying so. 
And the fact that we are, I 

1476
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:28,920
mean, we are here like we're 
here for you and, and it's 

1477
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:30,960
nothing to do with money. 
We're here for you if you want 

1478
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:32,680
anything, if you want, pointing 
in the direction, if you need a 

1479
01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:35,000
template for a letter, if you 
want to join a community full of

1480
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:37,640
loads of other parents, if you 
just want to be entertained for 

1481
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:41,360
just over an hour talking about,
you know, neurodivergency, Is 

1482
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:43,120
that a word? 
I think so. 

1483
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:46,480
We're here for you. 
But if you could just support us

1484
01:12:46,480 --> 01:12:48,880
with the London Marathon, 
because otherwise we're going to

1485
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:51,440
have to pay for the rest of 
ourselves, Yeah, And I ain't got

1486
01:12:51,440 --> 01:12:54,560
no fucking money. 
No, because we're a send family.

1487
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:57,520
So because none of us do. 
Yeah. 

1488
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:01,160
But OK, I'll stop begging now 
until the. 

1489
01:13:01,160 --> 01:13:02,960
Next episode, so. 
Well, yeah, we'll beg then. 

1490
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:05,520
In fact, we are going to have to
beg on every episode until yeah 

1491
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:07,680
anyway. 
Don't make us put reels up of US

1492
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:08,720
training. 
Yeah, don't. 

1493
01:13:09,440 --> 01:13:10,680
Sweaty. 
Disgusting. 

1494
01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:13,320
Yeah. 
All right, we'll leave it at 

1495
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:13,920
that. 
Perfect. 

1496
01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:15,280
Thank you mate. 
No problem at all. 

1497
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:18,440
Guys, love you all and we'll 
catch you on the next one. 

1498
01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:20,480
Have a great 10. 
We'll catch you in the steam and

1499
01:13:20,480 --> 01:13:21,920
whistle. 
Yes, see you there. 

1500
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:22,840
See you later. 
Bye. 

1501
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:23,200
Bye.