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Hello mate, hello again. 
How are you? 

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I'm doing really well. 
I'm doing really well. 

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Excellent yourself. 
Very well mate, very well. 

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I've been very much looking for 
this is number 30. 

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You need to see what it is #30. 
Episode 30. 30 Really look 

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forward to this one mate. 
We've got Haley and Amy from Sen

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Sanctuary. 
Let us learn 2 is that Yeah. 

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Yeah, that is great. 
Thank. 

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You for having us. 
No, thank you for for coming 

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approaching us about. 
It. 

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Yeah, absolutely. 
You guys, as far as this white 

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papers are concerned, you guys 
have kind of been on the inside,

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haven't you? 
Yeah, just a bit. 

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Just a bit you've been. 
On the inside, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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yeah, yeah, we have. 
So yeah, do. 

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You want to kind of tell us a 
little bit about what the 

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process, how long it's actually 
been going on, how long you've 

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been involved for, and then 
you're probably going to tell us

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how. 
You feel how you feel. 

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Shall I go? 
Shall I go, Amy? 

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You go first. 
OK, yeah, so as you all know, we

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all, so we started campaigning, 
we did the Fight for Ordinary 

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rally and it was, it was really 
good timing because it was just 

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the time when Georgia Gould was 
put on as MP for Schools 

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Minister, sorry, not MP, 
Minister for Schools. 

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And so she attended the rally 
and it was after that having 

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spoken to her and we started 
having meetings, didn't we, with

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what turned out to be the Send 
Improvement group members. 

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And then it was in November that
she said, OK, now we want to 

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make this official, an official 
group where we want to meet 

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every week. 
So we basically have been 

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meeting every week since 
probably the end of November to 

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the date of the release last 
week. 

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And whilst we weren't really, to
be honest, we weren't told 

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exactly what they were planning,
not until probably we got a 

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little bit more of an idea a 
couple of weeks ago, didn't we? 

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But until then it was kind of 
right. 

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This is, these are the areas we 
want to talk about. 

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So we were given sort of high 
level kind of topics and we had 

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to give our views on those, to 
give them guidance as to 

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whatever they ended up deciding 
and obviously make it completely

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clear we were not decision 
makers. 

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We had absolutely nothing to do 
with it. 

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We didn't get to choose what 
even topics we spoke about in 

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the meetings, but we obviously 
could get a sense of the 

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direction that they were going 
from those meetings. 

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Wow, Yeah, OK. 
That that's that's really 

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important part to push is that 
you guys weren't decision 

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makers. 
Unfortunately. 

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Yeah, you were essentially you, 
you were kind of sounding boards

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for, for the community as well 
as you could be. 

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You can't keep everybody happy. 
You were just trying to do the 

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best you could possibly do with 
the knowledge you add and kind 

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of use your influence to try and
try and get everybody's kids in 

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the best place they could be. 
And I imagine that's a bit of a 

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balancing act because you, you 
want to push. 

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But again, you have to be very 
mindful that if you push too 

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hard, piss people off, that door
that's been open for you to get 

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involved could very easily get 
shut. 

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And it's really important that 
there is someone representing 

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parents on that side of the 
room, and not just charities or 

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either they're like businesses, 
aren't they, inside the rooms? 

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It's important that there are 
parent voices. 

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Yeah. 
And to be fair, because we 

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weren't, I think we pushed 
probably harder than others, 

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definitely because we could, 
right. 

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We had, we had nothing to worry 
about. 

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And to be fair to the minister, 
she took that every time. 

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Like there were times where we 
did have some pretty strong 

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conversations, to put it 
politely. 

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And and strong facial 
expressions. 

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Very amazing. 
But never at any time did we 

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feel like, oh, we've gone too 
far or anything like that, or 

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the minister made us feel like 
we couldn't do that. 

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So like, I, I know there's a lot
of sort of angst when it comes 

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to the government and MPs and 
the way they work, but I kind of

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feel like we need to give credit
where it's due. 

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Georgia Gold did do very well 
with that. 

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Like she did take on board 
everything that was being said. 

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She was happy to be challenged 
and whilst we didn't always 

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agree on anything, everything, 
that at least we felt we could 

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say it, yeah, which was quite 
refreshing. 

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We'd probably echo that, 
wouldn't we in our? 

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In our experience with George, 
yeah, yeah, absolutely 

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personable, yeah. 
Very personable, Yeah. 

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Happy to be pushed. 
Yeah. 

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In fact, almost like she wanted 
to. 

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Sometimes she'd. 
She'd almost encourage it. 

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Yeah, exactly. 
And so full credit due, like you

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say, you know, although you 
might not be happy with 

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everything that came out of it, 
you know, credit where it's due.

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She was happy to be pushed. 
She's very personable. 

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She's I found it to be nothing 
like a government official, to 

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be honest. 
I found it very normal. 

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Yeah, I agree. 
Yeah, she was. 

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Really. 
Down to earth with it. 

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Yeah, not aloof at all, which 
was actually really refreshing 

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because I've met a lot of 
ministers over the years and she

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was probably the most 
interactive and yeah, night 

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pleasant like compared to 
others, certainly wasn't 

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patronising in any way and still
isn't. 

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Yeah, really, really good. 
So one question that always came

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up from the community was that 
this white paper was already pre

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designed and everything else was
just for show. 

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Smoke and mirrors, yeah. 
Or we've had consultations. 

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Were they receptive to views 
that you were putting across or 

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did you sometimes feel that this
is just us going through the 

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process? 
I think that they were 

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receptive. 
I honestly do believe that the 

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outer walls were already in 
place because they wanted to 

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release it, didn't they? 
Last year at some point at the 

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beginning? 
And they decided to hold off 

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because they wanted to get more 
input going forward to try and 

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get it right. 
You know, So I think it is 

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better than what they wanted to 
release, which we never saw at 

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the beginning. 
I think that they did want to 

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listen. 
You know, I openly challenged 

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and I know that Haley did. 
We were always saying, you know,

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we need more special schools, We
need more, not just hubs. 

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We need smaller classroom sizes 
and you know, something more 

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neuro affirming in the 
classroom. 

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And but it's whether they want 
to carry on once it's come out 

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our mouths. 
Yeah, there was one thing in 

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particular that we even, so even
right up until probably 2 weeks 

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ago, we were, we were still 
going back and forth on things 

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when we had a bit more of an 
idea. 

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So it gave us a chance to 
challenge stuff more strongly 

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because we got a more direct 
sense of, of direction. 

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And so one thing that did that 
was planned to go in that ended 

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up being reversed was 
assessments. 

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So they, the, they were looking 
at changing the appeal rights to

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refusal to assess for local 
authorities. 

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That was going to change. 
And one of those strong 

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meetings, and we did follow up 
with a further meetings which 

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the minister gave us time for, 
was to basically say we cannot 

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go through and spot and support 
this. 

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Like this is not, you can't do 
this. 

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And it was hard and it was 
stressful because it, it felt 

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like there was. 
And as obviously everyone knows,

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there's a lot there now that 
isn't great and actually is 

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detrimental in terms of overall 
rights to appeal. 

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But we just felt like, come on, 
this is too much. 

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You're taking away too much 
here. 

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And so the the rights to appeal 
to assess was put back back in 

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to where it was before. 
But that's just that challenge. 

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That's really good to know 
because that isn't something at 

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least when I look through, 
that's not something that was 

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clear to me in the white paper. 
So that's really good to know 

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because I know a lot of people 
were worried about that. 

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And I think, I mean, that's a 
decent chunk of what the 

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tribunals were all about was I 
was like 24 percent, 25% was 

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just refusal to assess in the 
first place, never mind whether 

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they got the school they wanted 
or the content of an already 

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existing EHCP. 
So OK, so that actually is 

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really good news. 
I thought this was all going to 

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be bad news so. 
Not all of it. 

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OK, but what? 
What? 

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What was their thinking to even 
put that on the table to refuse?

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It they thought it would be, 
they thought the roots that they

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wanted to put in would be easier
for parents and less and 

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quicker. 
And what's the word they use and

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not antagonistic? 
Is that right? 

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Yeah, they, they do have an I do
generally feel like they don't 

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quite understand still just how 
bad it is with local authorities

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And I, I don't think we've got 
that through. 

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And it was, if you ever get 
Georgia on here, she'll tell you

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how many times I said to her, 
local authorities will not do 

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this. 
They will still continue to 

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behave in the way that they 
already have. 

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This will not change. 
And I felt like I was a broken 

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record at times because I said 
it so many times in the 

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meetings. 
And I don't think that still got

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through completely, if I'm 
honest. 

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I still think they are naive to 
just how bad it is out there. 

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And so I think this was all part
of that, this idea that 

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everything, once they put these 
new processes in place, is going

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to work perfectly. 
But the reality is we've seen 10

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years of it not. 
And you, the same people are 

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still employed, the same people 
are still making decisions. 

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So how is that going to change? 
So and accountability is not 

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enough. 
Yeah, and there needs to be 

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more. 
I did send a very long e-mail 

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with ways that would be really 
good for accountability for 

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local authorities and how it 
would give faith for parents to 

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see these being put in. 
So hopefully something will be 

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done with that. 
Yeah, there was no sorry. 

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No, go on, you're fine. 
No, there was one other thing we

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did get put in and that was the 
the ability, well, not the 

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ability. 
So what is going to happen going

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forward is if a local authority 
consistently make incorrect 

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decisions, which get to the 
tribunal and they are 

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consistently found is found 
against them, then that that 

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local authority will have to 
essentially explain themselves 

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to whoever that group is going 
to be right now to say, look, 

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this is how we're going to amend
our processes in order to 

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address that failure. 
So we won't hopefully. 

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And like we said, we still time 
will tell and it depends how 

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it's all written. 
But the, the hope was in that, 

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and I'd say again, that was me 
and Amy and the DCP pushing 

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strongly for this one, was that 
we can't have situations anymore

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where you've got local 
authorities that are just 

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rejecting 65%. 
So for example, when I started 

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campaigning, my local authority 
was rejecting 65% of all kids 

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for assessments that we we're 
hoping that that will mean that 

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will stop or certainly get 
nipped in the bud a lot quicker 

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than it ever has been before. 
So that was another thing that 

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we did actually get sort of. 
That is really good. 

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Did did you ever obviously you 
were just saying that about 

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understanding the local 
authority. 

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Do you think there was from from
a government position? 

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Do you ever think that they've 
got the local authority on one 

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side saying we are doing a 
fantastic job and on the other 

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side they've got what they 
perceive to be overly emotional 

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parents who are trying to give 
advice And do do you think 

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they're like, well, these 
parents are just being a bit 

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overly emotional, they're 
exaggerating do. 

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You know what I mean? 
Yes and no. 

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00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:56,520
I mean, I have definitely told 
them a few stories about my 

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local authority. 
So I'm hoping that they will be 

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one of the first local 
authorities to be spoken to by 

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the government going forward. 
OK, They'll get a nice little 

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letter on their doorstep in the 
coming weeks. 

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I think like Amy says, it's a 
mixture. 

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I think there are still some 
people in the DfE that believe 

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that it is just, it's, it's 
unreasonable parents who are 

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trying to get too much for their
children. 

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But I think I, I felt like there
was a bit of a change as time 

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went on with them that they 
certainly, Georgia definitely 

229
00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:34,800
was not only listening. 
So as part of the national 

230
00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,200
conversations, when they were 
going out, actually meeting 

231
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,160
parents, I think they started to
see that we're not, we're not 

232
00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,880
like that. 
And when I had discussions with 

233
00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,880
her, she was literally telling 
me back, telling stories back to

234
00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,760
me about children that had been 
refused to assess that very 

235
00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:50,960
clearly should be assessed and 
get support. 

236
00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,160
So I think they did take it on 
board. 

237
00:11:53,560 --> 00:11:57,040
Whether that's that stops at the
minister and there are still 

238
00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,200
people beyond her who still 
believe that way, I don't know. 

239
00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,000
And I yeah, but it's, it's 
difficult because when you see 

240
00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,480
the white paper as it is, you 
still feel like that that that 

241
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,840
viewpoint is there because 
otherwise why change it and the 

242
00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:16,240
way that they have? 
So all right, what about this 

243
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,800
white paper then When it, when 
you obviously I'm, I'm guessing 

244
00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:22,000
you guys that you knew what was 
going to be in this white paper 

245
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,160
prior to its release. 
Wow, we read a prior version of 

246
00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:30,760
it, so we got to read it about 3
weeks before it came out and 

247
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,080
that was traumatic in its own 
right. 

248
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:38,760
Three hours, no toilet break. 
160 pages. 3 coffees and a red 

249
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:43,640
ball. 25 pages of notes. 
Yeah, wow. 

250
00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:50,040
Yeah, and how did you? 
Feel after that, I mean it's 

251
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,360
better that there. 
It's improved from what I read 

252
00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,160
it when I read. 
It saw the first version, so we 

253
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,120
that we didn't, yeah, we weren't
given the last version, so we 

254
00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,040
didn't know exactly what had 
been changed based on our 

255
00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:06,360
feedback. 
But my, my view initially was 

256
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:11,480
the tone wasn't quite right. 
I still felt that like you said,

257
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,480
that that view of parents was 
still there. 

258
00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,600
But I think for me it was seeing
it in black and white their, 

259
00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:21,120
their plans for the changes to 
legislation because that, that 

260
00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:25,040
was, it was really disappointing
because at the end of the day, 

261
00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,360
if everything's done correctly, 
you never need to go to court. 

262
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:29,640
You should never have to go to 
court. 

263
00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:30,880
It should always be a last 
resort. 

264
00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:36,080
And so why take away all those, 
all that protection that shell 

265
00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,200
around it for the sake of what, 
what's your aims here when 

266
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,040
you're doing that? 
And I think that was my worry 

267
00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,720
that if you, if you're so 
confident in the process, you 

268
00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,120
don't need to take away anything
because. 

269
00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:49,240
You could. 
Never get that far. 

270
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,960
I said this about 150 times that
I slacked sentence. 

271
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,200
I've I've messaged it in emails,
I've said it verbally in every 

272
00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:57,840
single meeting. 
So is Haley. 

273
00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,000
Yeah. 
You know, if, if you are so sure

274
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:01,840
that those steps that they're 
going to put in place, which 

275
00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:06,160
should already be there right 
now, you know, if they've got a 

276
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,720
legal backing as well, you know,
you're, you're never going to 

277
00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,040
get to tribunal so they'll 
decrease anyway. 

278
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,480
Yes. 
It makes no sense to take away 

279
00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,200
the one thing parents have 
you're. 

280
00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:18,960
Probably going. 
To say the same as me, I was 

281
00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,160
going to say is that is that 
them showing confidence in their

282
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:24,720
their white paper or is that 
them knowing what the local 

283
00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:29,240
authorities are actually like? 
Latter. 

284
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,280
I'm going to go over the latter 
just from my personal 

285
00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,680
experience. 
Which ultimately that then the 

286
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,320
the the the, the evolution of 
that is that it's about money 

287
00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:41,360
and cost. 
Yeah, it's going to be. 

288
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,200
Yeah, there's partly, there's no
doubt that money is involved, 

289
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:45,160
right? 
It's got to be in. 

290
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,840
Because you if, if, if money 
wasn't the issue here, kind of 

291
00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:49,520
I've heard, you know, Bridget 
Phillips and said. 

292
00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:51,320
Money's not the issue. 
Three times the other day she 

293
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,360
said twice when she was talking 
to us at Peterborough and they 

294
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,120
just said it this day after 
speaking to Nick Ferraro and LBC

295
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:58,200
that this wasn't about saving 
money. 

296
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:00,960
Well, like you've just. 
Said that wasn't going to save 

297
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:02,880
the money of. 
Course it is, and we understand 

298
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:04,160
that that's. 
That's one of the reasons it 

299
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:05,640
needs reform. 
Yeah, exactly. 

300
00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,000
That's being pragmatic and 
going, we understand this about 

301
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,000
about cost cutting, which is 
fine. 

302
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:15,640
So one, say it and two, if it 
isn't to your point there, leave

303
00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,520
those unnecessary backstops 
there, then tribunal because 

304
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:23,840
they'll never be needed I think.
I think they know that if they 

305
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,040
leave them there, they are going
to be used because they are 

306
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,080
going to be needed. 
Yeah, because there's not enough

307
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,400
accountability still that local 
authorities are going to keep 

308
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:32,920
running and doing whatever they 
want. 

309
00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,160
And it's, you know, there needs 
to be more in place. 

310
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,360
Yeah. 
And I think the bit that really 

311
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,840
I found so disappointing was all
the accountability so far seems 

312
00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:42,680
to be put on schools. 
It seems to be everything's 

313
00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:44,880
changed with schools and yet 
local authorities have got off 

314
00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:46,320
Scott free. 
And yet they're the ones that 

315
00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,520
really have let us down. 
Everyone's going to be 

316
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,560
everyone's going to be butting 
heads even more than they do 

317
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:50,880
now. 
Aren't. 

318
00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,920
They parents who don't need that
extra pressure that is then 

319
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,520
putting teachers and parents up 
against each other. 

320
00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,640
Yeah, which is going to cause 
more of a divide when we need to

321
00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,680
ensure that parents and teachers
are working together to make 

322
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,720
sure that things are in place 
and working well. 

323
00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,240
Yeah, but this just makes neuro 
diverse parents look neurotic 

324
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,320
then, doesn't it? 
If you're, if you're an outsider

325
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,680
looking in a neurotypical family
and now all you hear about your 

326
00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,120
local school that your child 
attends is how those parents 

327
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,720
over there keep butting heads 
with the school, the head, 

328
00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,040
everybody else like that. 
Oh, they're just troublemakers 

329
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,280
all the time. 
It carries on pushing that 

330
00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:29,200
narrative that we've seen since 
last summer that we are an 

331
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,640
awkward bunch of people. 
We're spending too much money. 

332
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,280
Yeah, we're responsible for all 
the potholes and everything else

333
00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,440
like that and everything else 
that they'd like to put in these

334
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:44,400
articles that are printed. 
It just it just carries on 

335
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,040
feeding that narrative again. 
Yeah, yeah. 

336
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,240
And it's so unfair because the 
vast majority of parents that I 

337
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,160
speak to, they just want their 
kids to go to school and be 

338
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,680
happy. 
It's not, it's not wanting to go

339
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,320
to a really expensive school 
somewhere that's 50 miles away 

340
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,480
with a taxi attached. 
It's not like that. 

341
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,040
And some parents, they need 
that. 

342
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,160
And that's absolutely fine 
because their children have 

343
00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,319
those needs that can only be 
catered for in that way. 

344
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:11,480
But yeah, it's, it's, it's hard 
because yes, all right, though 

345
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:13,960
money isn't positively the 
issue. 

346
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,319
I think when they say that it's 
more because they are investing 

347
00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:18,440
a lot of money upfront. 
And I think that's a really good

348
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:19,560
thing. 
They're actually putting the 

349
00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,960
money where their mouth is for 
the early level needs. 

350
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,440
But my worry is that higher 
level has just had a lot 

351
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,640
stripped away from it now. 
Schools are being cancelled that

352
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,080
were meant to be built. 
Yeah, yeah. 

353
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,920
And then you've got all the 
rights around that being taken 

354
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:37,800
away for what purpose? 
And I think that's that's why 

355
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:40,720
that's where our concern is 
right now. 

356
00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,120
So obviously you guys are 
involved in in this this 

357
00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:44,480
process. 
Was there anyone else that was 

358
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:45,720
involved as well other than you 
guys? 

359
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:50,000
Not and in well, so certainly 
not in the send development 

360
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,800
group. 
We we were the only impartial. 

361
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,760
Parents, Agnes. 
Oh, Lata, yes, more recently, 

362
00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:58,560
yes, yes, you're right. 
Yes, she was. 

363
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,200
But yes. 
And at the beginning it was us 

364
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,800
NNPCFDCP, Disabled Children's 
Partnership. 

365
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:07,760
Sorry, the Council for Disabled 
Children, the. 

366
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:13,840
Difference. 
Yes, had teachers, various other

367
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:15,520
people. 
I'm trying to think who else was

368
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:19,120
there now? 
Oh, Nassen, so were there as 

369
00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:22,840
well, and then came along. 
Sorry, were there any private 

370
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,720
entities involved? 
No. 

371
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,600
No, OK. 
Only charities I think. 

372
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,000
OK. 
No private equity companies or 

373
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:30,840
anything like that. 
That's OK. 

374
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:31,720
No. 
That's. 

375
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:32,240
Interesting. 
Cool. 

376
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,920
Yes. 
And nobody from LGA, nothing, 

377
00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:38,520
nobody. 
No representation there. 

378
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:42,400
So it was very much charity kind
of sector and us. 

379
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,600
So yeah, we also, we were 
literally the only people in the

380
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,480
room that were completely 
neutral, OK. 

381
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:54,000
Is everybody on the same page or
is a difference of opinion? 

382
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,800
Broadly, yes, I think nobody 
really had any. 

383
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,080
We certainly didn't have any 
strong disagreements within our 

384
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,560
group, did we? 
But there's obviously 

385
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,960
disagreements online between 
wider groups. 

386
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,880
Yes, but those not in the room, 
yeah, Yeah. 

387
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,240
But within the in that room, no,
I think everybody broadly just 

388
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,000
wanted the best for the 
children, for the kids if you 

389
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,600
want to. 
So that was generally the sense 

390
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,800
in the room. 
And whilst we might have 

391
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,000
different takes on things and 
obviously Amy and I will 

392
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,680
probably have the strongest 
opinions at times because we're 

393
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:31,640
parents and we're living it, 
it's going to be you're going to

394
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,440
come across and have a different
way of doing things. 

395
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:37,840
I think it was, it was quite 
refreshing because everyone was 

396
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,920
quite solutions focused in order
to to get the right legislation 

397
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,080
at the end of it. 
That's good and I only swore a 

398
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,680
couple of times in the meeting, 
so I thought that was the win. 

399
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:48,960
Well done. 
Success. 

400
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:52,600
So I mean, and The thing is, I 
suppose with everyone that's 

401
00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,400
involved, as long as the intent 
is what's best for the kids, 

402
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:57,400
that's half the battle, isn't 
it? 

403
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,800
As long as the intent is there, 
it's just trying to work a way 

404
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:02,880
that you can all kind of come to
the same kind of solution at the

405
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,640
end. 
What obviously you've you've 

406
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,800
since this has come out, 
obviously you guys must have 

407
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,360
seen so much online. 
I mean, even priority of it 

408
00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:12,560
coming out, you must have seen 
all of us talking about it in 

409
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:13,680
the leaks. 
And you must have been like, 

410
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,440
yeah, that's wrong, they've got 
that wrong or yeah, they're 

411
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,720
talking absolute shit there or 
that bit they've got right. 

412
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,760
And so you've obviously seen. 
All across the spectrum, like 

413
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,320
everyone, everyone talking about
this, is there anything that 

414
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,600
people have got completely 
wrong? 

415
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,920
Like something a positive thing 
where people think this is the 

416
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,880
end of the world for our kids, 
but you're actually do you know 

417
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:38,440
what? 
If this works, this part is 

418
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,040
actually going to be quite good,
quite positive. 

419
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,360
Please say you've got one. 
Just one. 

420
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:50,680
Just one, I think there is, I 
think for children with lower 

421
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,600
level needs, I think things will
get better because I think there

422
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:55,120
will be. 
So basically I think what's 

423
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:58,840
happened is for it's going very 
technical sort of funding type 

424
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:00,640
of stuff. 
But basically what's happened is

425
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,680
this, every school has a, a 
special needs grant to DSG grant

426
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,680
that which is allocated. 
But what's happened is so many 

427
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:08,440
children. 
Yeah. 

428
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,080
So but what happens is so many 
children have ended up with the 

429
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:12,880
HCPS. 
Those children get the funding 

430
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,320
first, which is meant that all 
those children coming up with 

431
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,320
lower level needs have had 
nothing. 

432
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,360
And that has just been an 
offshoot of the system that has 

433
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,480
grown. 
And unfortunately I think it's 

434
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,960
it's just the way things have 
gone because of the fact that 

435
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:29,840
there's lots of children that 
have been left and shouldn't 

436
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,200
have got should have got support
earlier, so they need to hire 

437
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,080
etcetera. 
So I think this system will put 

438
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,080
the money back into the bottom 
again, which I think is a good 

439
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:43,040
thing, and I think it will mean 
that children get speech and 

440
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,200
language therapy, OT etcetera 
much quicker without having to 

441
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,920
wait for any ACP to get it. 
Also, it kind of helps schools 

442
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,680
that didn't really want send 
children in it. 

443
00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:57,760
Now they're going to they're 
going to have to take them 

444
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,320
they'll because I think they're 
changing the way that because 

445
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,680
obviously if you don't have 
GCSEs and things like that, 

446
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,840
normally schools then take a 
knock of where they rank. 

447
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,720
And so schools didn't want to 
take children because of that, 

448
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,160
because you. 
Want to maintain their. 

449
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,440
Their business standards, their 
standards. 

450
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,760
And yeah, so now I do believe 
there's a shift in the change 

451
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,880
coming with that. 
So it's more of an incentive for

452
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,440
schools and each school will be 
forced to take children. 

453
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,640
Therefore, it will be an all 
rounder instead of having a 

454
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:28,200
honeypot school, which has taken
a massive financial hit like my 

455
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,920
daughter's school because all of
the SEND children in the area 

456
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,000
literally flock into it. 
They've got like nearly 40% of 

457
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:40,440
children would SEND, I think 
it's 35% with EHCPS and they've 

458
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,800
got it now a unit on it as well.
And the head teacher has made 

459
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,440
that decision for those children
in that unit not to take GCS, 

460
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,800
ES. 
So she's taken a huge hit for 

461
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,680
the school and I think she 
ranked like 10 in the West 

462
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,400
performing schools for the 
Times. 

463
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,920
Do you? 
Know what that that is positive 

464
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,080
anyway, if even if you took send
out of it like putting kids down

465
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:06,400
this narrow pathway pathway 
where they've got to do GCSEs 

466
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,160
and they've got to do Sats like 
that needed to be got rid of 

467
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,560
years ago. 
I agree years ago. 

468
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,440
So actually that's quite, that's
a positive change for, for. 

469
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,000
I think her, my, my daughter's 
school, I always think it's 

470
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,280
praises, you know, for a 
mainstream senior school, I 

471
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,720
think they're incredible and 
inclusive and I think they've 

472
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,200
got their values in the right 
way. 

473
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,480
And, you know, the headteachers 
there because she wants to make 

474
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,840
children thrive, to be able to 
move on to the next stage of 

475
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,520
their life, no matter how that 
looks, even if it's just them 

476
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:34,160
having functional skills to be 
able to live independently. 

477
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,360
You know, she's quite happy to 
take that knock. 

478
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,080
So I think, you know, hopefully 
they'll get these schools in 

479
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,120
that trust where they'll have 
access to like these O TS. 

480
00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:46,000
So then she'll be able to help 
the other schools in the area 

481
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:51,160
that used to be not so good. 
And then it widens the like, 

482
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,160
like school pool basically of 
good schools for children with 

483
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,720
SEND. 
So I think that's a bonus going 

484
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,320
forward that, you know, more 
schools will hopefully do better

485
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:02,960
because they have to. 
Yeah. 

486
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,200
So the money now going to the 
schools? 

487
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,800
It's going in a trust across a 
board of schools, so they could 

488
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,800
don't handle it and they cannot 
use it on other things. 

489
00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:15,240
That was going to be my 
question. 

490
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,640
Is it, it's ring fence for those
children? 

491
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,480
Yeah, yeah. 
So it's not going into the 

492
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,840
schools wider hot. 
And they have to show how it's 

493
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,360
being spent. 
Yeah, OK. 

494
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:26,720
They'll get audited. 
That's good. 

495
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,280
Yeah. 
Yeah, that is, that is good. 

496
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,120
That's good. 
What do you make of the four 

497
00:24:32,120 --> 00:24:38,640
different tiers? 
So I'm being we've been assured 

498
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,240
that it's not a you've got to go
one after the other after the 

499
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,760
other after. 
You can slot into Level 3, shall

500
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,560
we say, or whatever your needs 
are. 

501
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,480
The way I'm taking it is you 
won't know where you are. 

502
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:54,120
So they'll open your individual 
care plan and they'll literally 

503
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:56,160
just be saying, well, we've 
noticed they need speech 

504
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,240
language to come in. 
And then all actually we think 

505
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,280
maybe the educational psychology
should to come in and just, you 

506
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,120
know, give us some ideas. 
So then you're already building 

507
00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:07,240
it all up and you're actually 
moving up the targeted tiers 

508
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,120
without even realising it's 
happening. 

509
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,400
And then they're like, well, we 
need these interventions in 

510
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:12,600
place. 
And if they don't work, then 

511
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,280
more put in. 
And that's when you get to the 

512
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:18,160
top because maybe nothing's 
working and they go, well, we've

513
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,680
got this whole evidence base of 
everything we've tried, 

514
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,680
mainstream isn't working. 
And the, you know, we're having 

515
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,760
to go down a what was it called 
again? 

516
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,120
Specialist package. 
There we go for a specialist 

517
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:34,440
package. 
And then at that's when they go,

518
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,240
these are the schools for you on
that package and hope that you 

519
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,120
like one of them. 
Yeah, yeah, OK. 

520
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,360
Yeah. 
So I think the problem with that

521
00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:46,960
is and the worry is, and I I say
this is parent of a child in 

522
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,320
this exact bracket. 
There is a lot of support that 

523
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,800
you get right now in in your 
EHTP because it's listed in your

524
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,480
EHTP, right? 
It details and day-to-day level 

525
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,800
what your child needs. 
If it's written well, obviously 

526
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,200
these aren't the ones that are 
written badly. 

527
00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:03,960
The problem is by moving it to 
an ISP, all of a sudden you lose

528
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:08,640
that legal right because you can
only, well, because it's going 

529
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,120
into the ISP, which means you 
can only appeal to the school. 

530
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:13,800
That school will then go to 
obviously that that complaints 

531
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,120
panel will be a board with one 
independent person. 

532
00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:19,640
But if you've got a Board of 
Governors that's 5 or 6 and 

533
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,280
you've got one independent 
person, they're going to be 

534
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:25,000
drowned out very quickly. 
So that worries me, particularly

535
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,160
for the high 11 level needs kids
who do need extensive 

536
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,840
adaptations to their day. 
And if you're relying solely on 

537
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,800
the school to do that, what 
happens when they don't? 

538
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,400
And then so for those children 
that aren't quite at the 

539
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,000
specialist package level, but 
are on a very highly adapted 

540
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,080
curriculum level, how would that
work? 

541
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,120
And I think they're the ones 
that I, I'm worried the most 

542
00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:48,960
about right now. 
Sorry, no. 

543
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,360
No, I was just going to go back 
to that there. 

544
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:54,120
So obviously in the in the white
Paper there is that one 

545
00:26:54,120 --> 00:26:57,520
independent, I don't know, send 
specialist whatever you want to 

546
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,080
go call that would be on that 
that particular panel there. 

547
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,000
The rest of the people on the 
panel would you said governors, 

548
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:05,800
would they be the governors of 
the school? 

549
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:07,920
So no. 
Would they be really? 

550
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,880
Oh God, I didn't really. 
They could be the just the 

551
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,400
regular governors of the school.
So like I could be a governor of

552
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,440
my school. 
I'll have no send experience. 

553
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,800
The ones from that school 
though, I think they have to be 

554
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,120
from different schools. 
But they could. 

555
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,120
But they could still, in 
essence, just be. 

556
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,720
They can still, in essence, just
be regular parents with no 

557
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,560
experience of Sen. 
Yeah. 

558
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,360
Yeah. 
Who now will have the power over

559
00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:36,960
somebody else's child? 
And you could also be one of 

560
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,840
those parents that is getting 
extremely pissed off at how your

561
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,040
school's changing, how your 
particular child isn't getting 

562
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,440
what they deserve anymore. 
Why is all this money being 

563
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:47,000
spent? 
Done. 

564
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,720
That's a problem. 
They now will make up the 

565
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,280
majority of that panel. 
Complaints panel. 

566
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,840
Yeah, yeah. 
And I don't think it's clear if 

567
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,800
there is what the complaints. 
What do you do then if you're 

568
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,040
not happy? 
Because that big selling point 

569
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,000
from Bridget Phillipson was 
there's going to be an 

570
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:04,760
independent send specialist on. 
There. 

571
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,280
OK, that's a huge fucking 
problem. 

572
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:07,760
But she did. 
She failed to mention that. 

573
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,640
The majority after that, Haley, 
we need that tribunal step, 

574
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,760
which is what we keep saying. 
There needs to be that legal 

575
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,760
backstop at that level. 
But these are people that that 

576
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,400
will have no understanding of 
this particular White paper in 

577
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,400
the detail. 
Not only not only no 

578
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,600
understanding, but potentially A
bias against. 

579
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:25,640
Yeah, disabled children, yeah, 
could. 

580
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:26,840
Be. 
Yeah. 

581
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:28,040
Yeah, potentially. 
Yeah. 

582
00:28:28,120 --> 00:28:28,600
OK. 
Yeah. 

583
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,120
Wow. 
That's a That's a big fucking 

584
00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:34,040
problem. 
Yeah, wow, they never mentioned 

585
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:35,720
that bit. 
Of course they didn't. 

586
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,240
No, of course they didn't. 
When they said, when they said 

587
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,320
Bridget Phillipson, are 
tribunals still going to be 

588
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,960
going? 
Yeah, didn't say it was only for

589
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:44,600
complex. 
In the same capacity though. 

590
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:45,920
Yeah, exactly. 
OK. 

591
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,400
Yeah, yeah. 
So it's a real worry and it's 

592
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,160
that's the bit that I'm really 
concerned about because what 

593
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,800
happens then if you're not happy
with the school package? 

594
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,040
But and then so for example, I 
think the plan is that you can 

595
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,400
still get an EHCP and then go to
a mainstream school, but you 

596
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:06,640
don't get the EHCP until you get
your specialist provision. 

597
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,600
So yeah, it's that's cool to 
write it. 

598
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:10,960
Yeah. 
So then the school write it. 

599
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,720
And then if you've got a, see if
you want to challenge the 

600
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,680
placement and the provision who,
where are you going? 

601
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,160
So. 
Going round in a circle. 

602
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,720
Yeah. 
And then there's no end to it 

603
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:23,920
because there's no way to stop 
it. 

604
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,880
Because if you don't go to 
tribunal to challenge the school

605
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,200
they've given you, they go. 
We agree that is the wrong 

606
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,360
school. 
Let's pop you back to the LA who

607
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,120
made the wrong decision, who 
you've got no faith in. 

608
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,000
They don't know how to do their 
job. 

609
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:38,880
Yeah. 
And then they'll give you 

610
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,240
another school that's wrong that
you're not happy with. 

611
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,560
You have to challenge it. 
Oh look, another 20 months. 

612
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,720
But separately, the actual plan 
itself, then you have to go back

613
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,360
to the school with. 
So you've got, whereas you just 

614
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,840
had one appeal process, you've 
now got double approval 

615
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,200
processes potentially and one 
will just become a loop. 

616
00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:59,200
Yeah. 
Oh. 

617
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:00,800
My God. 
Yeah. 

618
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:02,880
So you're going to get more 
parents pulling their children 

619
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,720
out of education. 
Yeah, because there's a children

620
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,800
and well-being Bill that will 
stop that. 

621
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,040
Oh, what's that? 
Have you not heard about the 

622
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,880
Children's and well-being Bill? 
You might want to Google that. 

623
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,320
They're going to make it 
incredibly difficult for 

624
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,960
children with plans. 
EHCP send needs to be withdrawn 

625
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,600
from school without the local 
authority first allowing you to 

626
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,960
do that and doing a home meeting
with you. 

627
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,920
And then if they decide that you
cannot take your disabled child 

628
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,600
out of the school placement, you
have no choice but to continue 

629
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,160
to put them into a school 
placement. 

630
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,320
That is not meeting. 
Their needs? 

631
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,440
Oh yes. 
Take me to court. 

632
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,840
Like, Nah, really? 
Yeah, and you will literally be 

633
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,760
forced to keep your child in a 
school that is failing them. 

634
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:49,680
It's really. 
Bad. 

635
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,480
I don't want to be hyperbolic. 
I don't want to be hyperbolic. 

636
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,040
But like this is going to you've
said. 

637
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,600
The 2GO hand in hand. 
Lives, lives are going to be 

638
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,800
lost if parents have been forced
to force their children into 

639
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,360
these situations. 
And unfortunately the white 

640
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,680
paper and the children and 
well-being school paper slot 

641
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:12,320
together really well so that it 
does remove that right to taking

642
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:13,920
your child and home educating 
them. 

643
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,040
So who's in charge of your child
now then? 

644
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:19,720
Is it the local authority? 
Yeah, yeah. 

645
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,360
Wow, do. 
You know what that. 

646
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,680
Wow. 
That's probably the, that's 

647
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,040
probably one of the worst bits 
of it all, actually, the bits 

648
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,280
that we've just talked about, 
the last, that's that school 

649
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,560
governors, that's a separate. 
Bill and that's near the end 

650
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,920
stages as well that is now in 
the House of Lords being 

651
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,560
discussed for the final bits and
they keep sliding things through

652
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,160
the back door of. 
Course they do. 

653
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,600
They love doing that. 
It's getting worse, so I would 

654
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,840
definitely have a Google of that
bill and see what it entails. 

655
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,360
Yeah, do. 
You think this is going to cause

656
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,880
more issues than we currently 
have with the current system? 

657
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,680
I think the basis of the what 
the the bill children well-being

658
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:04,720
built or the White Paper. 
White Paper. 

659
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,000
I like the basis of what they 
want to do with the targeted 

660
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,960
support, the helping hands, but 
that should already be there. 

661
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,840
Yeah, that's things that should 
already be readily available now

662
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,520
and schools aren't putting in 
place because again, there's 

663
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:18,880
nothing to hold them 
accountable. 

664
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,720
You know, if you've got a bad 
school, they don't care. 

665
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,120
They've got a reputation for not
having disabled kids. 

666
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,400
They're fine with that. 
You know, you've got a bad local

667
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,960
authority. 
You know, instead of actually 

668
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,880
putting more school placements 
locally, they'll happily send a 

669
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,320
child miles away and spend, you 
know, 8090 thousand, which could

670
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,800
put, you know, 3 kids in a local
placement in a specialist 

671
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,920
provision. 
I mean, where we are, instead of

672
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,480
building a new school, they gave
it to an old care home to build 

673
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,080
there instead of a specialist 
school. 

674
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:53,760
And I just think, you know, 
it's, it's not the, the best 

675
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,040
trajectory going forward. 
I think there's also an issue 

676
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,760
that we've at the moment, our 
children are now going to have 

677
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,760
to fit packages rather than have
a package around them. 

678
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,840
So the way it's going to work is
that you will, you will apply 

679
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,680
for obviously the assessment to 
the local authority, the local 

680
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,800
authority that will then 
determine whether you meet a 

681
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,240
package. 
And obviously you can have 

682
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,440
multiple packages. 
So I know that's the question 

683
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,400
that came up recently, but that 
means then from you, if you're, 

684
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,680
if they say, yes, you do meet 
the criteria for a package, you 

685
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,600
then go to school with that 
package. 

686
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,920
But that means you're fitting 
the package that's offered by 

687
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,440
the school rather than the 
school fitting your needs. 

688
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,680
So and I, I understand where 
they're to a degree where 

689
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,320
they're coming from because they
obviously are trying to make 

690
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:42,320
this financially sustainable as 
we all know, but at what cost? 

691
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,720
And I'm not quite sure they 
fully have thought about what 

692
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:51,720
the cost of that actually is. 
So like I said, I think it's, I 

693
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,680
think early, early level kind of
special needs and identification

694
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:56,960
and things like that will get 
better. 

695
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,560
But I'm I'm very concerned about
the high, high level needs and 

696
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,040
the the support that's going to 
be surrounded there. 

697
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,760
Right, quick question as well. 
On the back of that then, can 

698
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,080
you just explain to everyone 
what complex needs is? 

699
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,719
Very easy. 
It's a very simple, very simple 

700
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,000
question, surely. 
No one knows because we're yet 

701
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,639
to be. 
Told well the the only thing the

702
00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:22,000
sort of the indication we've 
been given is that in order to 

703
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,600
get a package you've got to show
that you need a specialist 

704
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:30,600
school. 
So it's not so does your needs 

705
00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:33,080
require more than a mainstream 
school. 

706
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,360
So then it will be determined as
a complex needs which are met, 

707
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,000
which are then determined, 
obviously it's catered for, 

708
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:46,440
sorry, by a package section F 
now, yes, which is again, you're

709
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:52,800
very much having to show a child
is got to fit a certain. 

710
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:54,840
Box. 
Yeah. 

711
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,120
OK. 
So it's not, it's not you're in 

712
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,840
the specialist complex needs. 
So you go to a specialist 

713
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:01,520
school. 
It's do you need a specialist 

714
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,320
school? 
In that case, you're OK. 

715
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:04,600
So they're just kind of reverse 
engineered it. 

716
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:05,360
All right. 
Yeah. 

717
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,800
All right. 
That actually makes more sense. 

718
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,640
Yeah, then. 
In some ways. 

719
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,800
Yeah, yeah, OK. 
And we have been told there will

720
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,560
be packages within mainstream 
schools as well for certain 

721
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,040
needs, but we're not clear on 
what those needs will be. 

722
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,560
So whether that is just more 
medical, I don't know. 

723
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,760
But well, I'm I'm guessing but I
don't know. 

724
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,280
Obviously this, this money 
that's that's going in, you 

725
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,880
know, 4 billion, obviously that 
looks great, but. 

726
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,280
When you divide it. 
On the three years, yeah, on the

727
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,800
surface, 4 billion seems great, 
but 2000 lbs, it's not. 

728
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,440
And again, the whole the whole 
point of this, it's an 

729
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,080
investment. 
They're investing this money for

730
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:52,000
a return at the other end, the 
return being less money being 

731
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,680
spent, which is going to be the 
end goal of this. 

732
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:59,560
And again, that's, that's fine. 
Obviously all of this, this 

733
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:07,000
whole plan stands on there being
enough people, staff, 

734
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:12,200
specialists to support it. 
Where the fuck are they coming 

735
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,360
from? 
Apparently they're going to try 

736
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,680
and get ones that have left the 
industry to come back. 

737
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,480
Great, but they've probably left
the industry for a reason. 

738
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:21,800
Yeah, shit. 
You know the job, you left 

739
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:23,240
because you hated it. 
Do you want to come back? 

740
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:25,680
Because you were stressed and 
overworked. 

741
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,440
Do you want to come back to it? 
I'm probably underpaid. 

742
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:30,640
Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah. 

743
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,160
See, that's like, that's a huge,
I mean, it's a big gamble, isn't

744
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:34,400
it? 
It's a big assumption they're 

745
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,480
making is we've got this 
wonderful plan, yeah, but it's 

746
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,240
based on a lot of people that 
currently don't exist. 

747
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:45,480
I know that they have said like 
the 2030 trajectory could be 

748
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,560
changed if they don't have the 
hubs and the staff and 

749
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,040
everything in place by then, 
that timeline can be shifted. 

750
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,240
OK. 
Can I ask you a question about 

751
00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:58,640
the hubs? 
So we go into a senior school, 

752
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,880
comprehensive school and they 
talk about a specialist hub. 

753
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:08,400
Obviously for me, looking from 
the outside in is I just imagine

754
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:13,840
one room which then accommodates
kids from the age of 11 to 16. 

755
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,600
How does it work when they say 
we're bringing a hub to a school

756
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,000
that's going to meet these kids 
needs? 

757
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:20,480
Yeah, like do you imagine like a
Porter cabin? 

758
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,920
Yeah, I just imagine that we'd 
just attach a Porter cabin to 

759
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:23,880
the school. 
Because. 

760
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:25,440
I think. 
They wanted to do new 

761
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,200
infrastructure in schools, 
didn't they? 

762
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:28,720
They were looking at. 
It's going to vary. 

763
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,400
Yeah, depending on how much the 
space the school has got itself.

764
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,120
Yeah. 
And for sometimes, so I should 

765
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,520
say my son, my eldest son, he 
goes to a base attached to a 

766
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,760
mainstream school. 
So but it is a specialist school

767
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,280
attached. 
It's very much like of that ten 

768
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,600
children in the classroom, 2 
Tas, high level of support 

769
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,240
needs. 
I think if, and again we don't 

770
00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:53,720
really know, we haven't been 
given the set detail of how they

771
00:37:53,720 --> 00:37:57,080
envisage these bases. 
Is it that highly specialist 

772
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,840
attachment to a school which 
benefits from the sort of the 

773
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:03,120
finances of the bigger school, 
but equally can still run as a 

774
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,240
specialist? 
Or is it another drop in room 

775
00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:08,880
for people to pop into if 
they're not feeling particularly

776
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,080
comfortable in class? 
That's a very different, 

777
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,240
different prospects. 
So yeah, again, we need a lot 

778
00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:17,080
more detail. 
I feel like they want to leave 

779
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,080
it down to the local. 
I'm sure I read it somewhere. 

780
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:24,520
It's down to the local authority
to do this plan. 

781
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,960
That's great because they've 
they've been really good so far.

782
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:28,640
So that's really. 
Positive, yeah. 

783
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:30,320
And what standards will be 
there? 

784
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,280
Will there be enough Ttas? 
Will the teachers be trained? 

785
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:34,560
Will they be specialist 
teachers? 

786
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:36,360
Like there's so many unknowns 
so. 

787
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,760
This is going to be a bit of a 
post code lottery for for 

788
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,200
schools then isn't it really? 
Yeah, I feel like they've not 

789
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,760
really thought it out properly 
and it needs to be like a 

790
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,360
national guidance and this is 
how it's going to be across the 

791
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,800
whole of England rather than 
here. 

792
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,000
Go local authorities, do what 
you want. 

793
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,120
Yeah, we've had it needs to be 
mandatory. 

794
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,760
Yeah, we, we, we've had people 
message us like they're moving 

795
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,720
back to the UK from abroad and 
they're asking a question they 

796
00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:01,520
shouldn't have to ask. 
And that's where do we move to? 

797
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,280
Because my child's got special 
educational needs and where's 

798
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,880
the best place to go? 
It just, it shouldn't be like 

799
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:07,280
that. 
Should it? 

800
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,480
Yeah, don't go to Hampshire. 
Yeah. 

801
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,000
Like that isn't something people
should have to think about, you 

802
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,720
know, where's, where's the best 
place to move to for my for my 

803
00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:17,560
child? 
It's great that they are asking 

804
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:18,680
that question, but they 
shouldn't need to. 

805
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,840
But. 
It just looks like all right, 

806
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,120
The local authority are fucked 
up all over the country. 

807
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:25,640
Let's just give. 
But they're not getting their 

808
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,160
asses spanked about it. 
They're just no. 

809
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,880
We're going to get them more. 
Yeah, well, you told Mr Starmer.

810
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:33,840
I did. 
You did. 

811
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:38,480
At the round table you were 
like, firstly, you, even though 

812
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,360
this wasn't down to you because 
you weren't in power, you need 

813
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,520
to say you were sorry for the 
trauma that you have called 

814
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,520
parents. 
That was her exact sentence to 

815
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:46,720
Keir Starmer. 
Did you? 

816
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:48,880
She. 
Did that parents feel that 

817
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,800
they've been played? 
So we need acknowledgement from 

818
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,840
you that we've been subject to a
system where it's not our fault.

819
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,280
We've played the roles and yeah,
we're the ones that take the 

820
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,960
brunt of it and we need 
acknowledgement from them. 

821
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:02,520
And to be fair to him, he took 
that. 

822
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:04,400
Yeah, nice. 
Well, you need an 

823
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:05,680
acknowledgement for saying it, 
mate. 

824
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:06,840
That's good. 
Fair play to you. 

825
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,120
That's good. 
Larry Well, I think sometimes 

826
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:13,120
that it's, it's very easy to be 
yes, people and in order to get 

827
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:14,880
things done properly, we have to
tell the truth. 

828
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,480
And somebody had to say to him, 
but like, there's a lot of upset

829
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,720
right now and there's a lot of 
trauma that's been caused. 

830
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:23,960
And until you can acknowledge 
that, then we can't move 

831
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:25,360
forward. 
No, no, no. 

832
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,480
I mean, there's there's no good 
people being an echo chamber and

833
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,280
just hearing everything that 
they want to hear. 

834
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:30,720
There's no point. 
They'll never learn anything, 

835
00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:32,600
never move forward. 
And actually, you can't be a 

836
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,520
good anything if you don't 
actually listen. 

837
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,120
There's no point being in the 
room if we're literally just 

838
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,280
agreeing with them. 
The whole point of us is to be 

839
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,520
the voice of parents. 
We may as well not be in the 

840
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:46,200
room if we aren't going to stand
up and say actually this isn't 

841
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:50,040
OK, which is what we've done 
every single week. 100%. 

842
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,800
Yeah, we're the people from the 
Department for Education that I 

843
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,280
will see you guys got in there 
as as parents, but were the 

844
00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:00,920
people employed by the DfE that 
are send parents or send 

845
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,240
families or they're just 
outsiders looking and thinking 

846
00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:07,720
they understand it? 
I know I I without naming names,

847
00:41:07,720 --> 00:41:10,920
there is a few people that I 
have spoken to that do have send

848
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,960
children, you know majority. 
Don't know. 

849
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,800
No, majority don't, but there 
are a couple that do have them 

850
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,880
but they're kind of just in the 
DfE rather than being a voice. 

851
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,760
Within part of the policy, yeah.
Yeah. 

852
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,280
Yeah, it's always, it's always 
eye opening when that's the 

853
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,240
case. 
Yeah, it is. 

854
00:41:28,240 --> 00:41:29,720
Yeah. 
I mean, we know some people in 

855
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,120
kind of prominent positions 
that, you know, suddenly hit 

856
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,880
them, their lives and you. 
And the same for us, you know, 

857
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,840
until, you know, you don't know.
And. 

858
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:39,360
And. 
That's to affect you fast 

859
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:40,480
changing. 
And then you get it. 

860
00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:43,640
So it's some people are kind of 
being. 

861
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,520
Then again, I say we'll, we'll, 
we'll fully ignorant you. 

862
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:48,200
You don't even have to be 
ignorant. 

863
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,960
If you don't, if you're not in 
it, you cannot get it. 

864
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:52,320
You just have to trust the 
parents. 

865
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:53,880
It doesn't, Yeah. 
It doesn't matter how how you 

866
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,760
how many times you're explained 
what it's like living this 

867
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:58,240
reality. 
Yeah. 

868
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:00,200
Yeah. 
But then you, you always risk 

869
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,680
having those people then that 
aren't directly affected by it 

870
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,200
going to these kind of policies.
Or, you know, you've seen it 

871
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:08,880
many times over in, in all walks
of life. 

872
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,560
They go in there to make a name 
for themselves that I've managed

873
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,280
to change this. 
So I was a key instrument in 

874
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:18,000
saving XY and Z to progress 
their careers. 

875
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:19,800
Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah. 

876
00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:22,960
If it makes you feel better, we 
didn't get paid a single penny 

877
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:24,080
together, no. 
We didn't. 

878
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,280
It cost us money. 
Yeah, if you train at all. 

879
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:30,120
Not mine, they did. 
I'm fine. 

880
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:36,280
I'm finally getting my nearly 6 
to £700 worth of travel back. 

881
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,640
Yeah, that's good. 
Well, you could just use the DLA

882
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:39,920
money. 
You're swimming in it anyway. 

883
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,640
DLA. 
No honestly made of money cash 

884
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:46,600
name. 
Make it rain, geez. 

885
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,040
I think that's what that's the 
bit we found hardest because 

886
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:54,880
when we were getting the 
backlash that we got, so when 

887
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,400
people were saying that we'd 
been bought and all this sort of

888
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,920
these sorts of comments were 
flying, to be honest, it was so 

889
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,040
far from the truth because it 
was actually like we were giving

890
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,000
everything to it. 
That would, that would seriously

891
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,760
piss me off because you're 
obviously directly affected by 

892
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:11,520
it. 
We would, yeah, as a community, 

893
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,040
we would fucking moan if there 
was nobody from our community on

894
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:16,960
the inside fighting our cause. 
But then when you put yourself 

895
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,880
forward to fight the cause, 
everyone then raises a voice and

896
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:21,880
goes, oh, you're just one of 
them. 

897
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:23,640
You could have. 
You could have mentioned this or

898
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,120
you could have. 
You've done this or you've been 

899
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:27,600
bought. 
Now you're part of the 

900
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:29,600
establishment. 
That's one thing about like 

901
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,200
this, this community generally, 
we're all going in the right 

902
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:34,320
direction. 
We're all going in the same 

903
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,480
direction, generally speaking. 
But every now and then, 

904
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,600
Facebook's a fucker for it. 
I have Facebook, it's worse. 

905
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,120
Yeah, it's it's like it's all 
the people that aren't in the 

906
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,160
community who just throw in it. 
And you know what? 

907
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,480
When they say it, I'm kind of 
like, fuck, I don't really care 

908
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,920
because you don't know. 
But it's when people within the 

909
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,880
community start fighting each 
other, and it's like, why? 

910
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:56,360
I'm really personal. 
That was the thing. 

911
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:57,200
Oh. 
Yeah. 

912
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:58,400
Really. 
Personal. 

913
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,280
Yeah. 
How's it impacted you guys then 

914
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:01,720
obviously put yourselves? 
On the line like. 

915
00:44:01,720 --> 00:44:04,320
This it was, yeah. 
It was really hard at the time. 

916
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:08,720
I think you just wondered like 
what you, what would, why carry 

917
00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:12,160
on because you just think, well,
if nobody's going to support you

918
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,920
and you're giving everything, 
your family is sacrificing. 

919
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,120
Like both of our families had to
sacrifice stuff because we 

920
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,520
weren't there week on week for 
the past three, 2-3 months. 

921
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,800
Yeah, well, you've got kids with
additional needs, Yeah. 

922
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,400
I've got 3, so yeah. 
Exactly. 

923
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,880
So like everybody's in it. 
And so the last thing you need 

924
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,680
is people to attack you just 
because you don't think exactly 

925
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,600
the way that they think. 
And I think we've just got to 

926
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:37,320
get to a point where we just 
understand that we're going to 

927
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:38,880
have different views. 
That's fine. 

928
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,640
That's how we make progress. 
But that doesn't make one of us 

929
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:44,520
wrong and somebody else right. 
It's just different, yeah. 

930
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,600
You know, and being told that we
don't have children who are 

931
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,000
varying enough needs when I've 
got very varied. 

932
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,440
I've got 2 but quite high care 
needs 1 not so high care needs, 

933
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,320
you know, also being autistic 
with ADHD myself. 

934
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,280
And we've got then you reply 
with well, you know, I'm not 

935
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,120
being paid. 
I haven't been bought and they 

936
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,520
go well more for you, you, you 
know, at least. 

937
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,920
You should have been stupid. 
You're stupid because you're not

938
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,320
getting paid. 
And I'm like, how can I win? 

939
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:15,160
Yeah, I've got like on publicly,
I've been, they've said that 

940
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,280
nobody in the group knew 
anything about the law and yet 

941
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,320
I'm a solicitor. 
So they do things like they they

942
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:24,400
direct comments to that degree 
and you just feel like, come on 

943
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,160
guys, like let's respect each 
other for the contribution we're

944
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,160
giving. 
So yeah, yeah, yeah. 

945
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:31,440
These are sometimes the people 
that won't go out of their way 

946
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:33,200
though to actually make a 
positive impact in the 

947
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:35,240
community. 
They'll just sit there and Chuck

948
00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:37,920
shit from the sidelines. 
Which is easier, right? 

949
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,240
Yeah. 
You know, if I wasn't in the 

950
00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:43,000
room and for instance, say you 
guys were, I would just be happy

951
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:44,560
there was a parent in the room. 
Yeah. 

952
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:47,080
That I knew would be voicing. 
Yeah. 

953
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,800
What? 
At least 95% of parents would be

954
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:51,600
saying. 
You're not. 

955
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:52,680
You're never gonna please 
everyone. 

956
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:54,600
You're not gonna have everyone's
views. 

957
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,280
It's just not possible. 
And like the argument that you 

958
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,680
that like your kids needs aren't
enough for you to be speaking. 

959
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,120
I don't and I don't have fairing
enough ages. 

960
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,600
I've got a 13 year old, A7 year 
old, and a four year old. 

961
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,320
What the What do they want? 
I'm missing. 

962
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,880
It's like a 20 year old son. 
Like, yeah, it's just 

963
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,000
ridiculous. 
I mean, like that we've talked 

964
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:17,080
about it a lot. 
Like you, you're in a situation,

965
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,240
I know Andy and myself are, 
where our kids do fall into that

966
00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:24,480
complex bracket. 
But actually that that makes us 

967
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,120
better off as far as our kids 
are concerned, because there's 

968
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,960
yes, our lives are going to be 
harder, but but our kids get the

969
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:34,560
support. 
But then. 

970
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,920
This this was a guy basically we
we there was a reel that we did 

971
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:42,600
a little while ago. 
Just saying when Lydia got her 

972
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,280
placement at the specialist 
school she attends, similar sort

973
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,280
of thing for every for everyone 
placement, say there was 20 

974
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:54,920
parents that missed out. 
And my clip was, I was 

975
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:58,640
absolutely delighted my child, 
I've got the placement that she 

976
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,600
deserved and required. 
And then I said afterwards I 

977
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:05,320
thought about it and I realised 
that there would be 19 other 

978
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:09,440
families who would be suffering.
And somebody put in the 

979
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:11,680
comments, what did he say? 
Well, he said something like, 

980
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,800
well, it wasn't that much of A 
dilemma for you, was it? 

981
00:47:15,240 --> 00:47:16,720
Essentially like. 
Like. 

982
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:18,640
Crying hard enough. 
And so. 

983
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,600
Like. 
Yeah, so me, me and Gaz. 

984
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:25,320
I said to Gaz like well what the
fuck are we doing then? 

985
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,120
Spending our money trying to go 
down to London to help send 

986
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,440
betweeners because the speak for
the community because we could 

987
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:32,760
have just gone fuck it. 
OK, just so it's. 

988
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,920
Yeah, exactly. 
We're absolutely fine. 

989
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:36,760
But then. 
That's it. 

990
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,480
That's kind of where we are. 
We're in a situation where our 

991
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,840
kids are probably going to get 
the support they need because of

992
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,000
the complexity. 
We're not just doing this for 

993
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:47,880
our kids. 
Yeah, we're trying to do it. 

994
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:49,400
And that's what that's what you 
guys have done. 

995
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,080
Yeah, that's where I was at. 
For where we were both at. 

996
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,480
We were sorted up until about 3 
weeks ago. 

997
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,360
Yeah. 
And now we're both down, down 

998
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:00,520
the tribunal path again. 
We can't fucking wait. 

999
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,960
Yeah, it's not. 
Another thing is you can't, you 

1000
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,640
can't keep everybody happy. 
And it doesn't even matter what 

1001
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:08,040
the issue is, especially 
Facebook. 

1002
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,880
Like direct to the camera. 
If you are any of those people 

1003
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,720
that sit on fucking Facebook 
just looking for shit to say to 

1004
00:48:13,720 --> 00:48:17,720
people, just fuck off. 
Don't get someone to give you a 

1005
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,960
hug. 
Like just Speaking of hug hug. 

1006
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,760
Speaking of Facebook, I was just
saying off camera to you, Amy, 

1007
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:29,600
that literally last week a 
certain newspaper put an article

1008
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,320
out and it was just slamming 
send children after the white 

1009
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,800
paper came out and the families 
and everything else like that, 

1010
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:37,400
and we talk about teachers being
trained. 

1011
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:43,120
There were comments in there 
from current teachers who were 

1012
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,480
agreeing with the article, 
saying it's a lot of neurotic 

1013
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,960
parents, it's bad parenting, 
which has led to their children 

1014
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,320
being like this. 
You didn't get it in my day. 

1015
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:54,320
And these are still active 
teachers. 

1016
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:57,800
So how do you train these 
individuals? 

1017
00:48:57,800 --> 00:48:58,640
Yeah. 
You don't. 

1018
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,560
You show them the door. 
The thing is, The thing is 

1019
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:05,200
neurotic parents do exist across
the board where you've got send 

1020
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,360
kids or typical kids, there are 
people that are going to be 

1021
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,240
trying to scrange money for DLA 
and welfare and and they're 

1022
00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:14,000
being dishonest about it. 
Yes, they exist, but they're not

1023
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:15,520
worth talking about. 
They are such a small 

1024
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:17,000
percentage. 
You can't throw the baby out 

1025
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:18,760
with the bathwater. 
Yes, they exist. 

1026
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,320
We accept they exist. 
Fine, move on. 

1027
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,680
It doesn't change anything. 
It doesn't change anything. 

1028
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:27,520
The vast majority of people that
are going through this don't 

1029
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:29,000
want to have to go through it 
because it. 

1030
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:34,080
Absolutely give up my DLA and 
anything that any other bonus 

1031
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:38,400
that comes with this life just 
to go so my kids can literally 

1032
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:42,920
just glide through school and 
have their needs met at a base 

1033
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,840
level without any worry. 
I don't even imagine the trauma 

1034
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,920
and the sleepless nights. 
There is one thing on that, that

1035
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,920
I think that unfortunately the 
teaching profession does need to

1036
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:53,400
catch up. 
At the end of the day, we've now

1037
00:49:53,720 --> 00:49:57,080
established through I think 
quite set like reliable data. 

1038
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:01,120
About 5 or 6 kids in every 
classroom now have to send of 

1039
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:05,480
some form when you've got 20% of
your class that has Sen. 

1040
00:50:05,720 --> 00:50:07,520
This isn't special needs 
teaching anymore. 

1041
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,840
This is just teaching teaching. 
And I think we need to get past 

1042
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,960
this idea that somehow what 
they're doing is something extra

1043
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,440
because it's now just part of 
their job. 

1044
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:19,160
So yeah, we want to get the 
right support for certain 

1045
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:20,840
children. 
We want to get the right 

1046
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,040
methodology and the right 
provision and the right 

1047
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,120
equipment. 
But I do think there comes a 

1048
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:27,680
point where everyone has to 
accept that this is progression.

1049
00:50:27,720 --> 00:50:30,360
And that is a you know what? 
That's a really good point 

1050
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,760
because I was guilty of that. 
I was definitely, I've said it 

1051
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:35,880
on the podcast, I was definitely
guilty of being like, fucking 

1052
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:37,960
all these parents are now going 
to have to do this. 

1053
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:40,200
But yeah, no, do you know what? 
That's just changed my mind. 

1054
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,240
That's a really good point. 
But it's always been there, 

1055
00:50:42,240 --> 00:50:46,080
isn't it? 
When like we were at school, you

1056
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,840
say 20% of your year group was 
probably affected in some way or

1057
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,360
you know, would have been sent 
or new or diverse. 

1058
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:55,080
They were just put in the 
naughty set and I can look back 

1059
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,160
at my. 
If I look back 30 years, you can

1060
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:59,480
very quickly go. 
I can look at them now and go, 

1061
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,480
yeah, that makes sense. 
Yeah, I have emotional base 

1062
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,640
school avoidance. 
I I didn't go to school for 

1063
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:06,680
almost 3 1/2 years of my senior 
school. 

1064
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,560
Yeah. 
Yeah, so it was there. 

1065
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:11,120
It just. 
Wasn't turned out right, didn't 

1066
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:16,560
you? 
Twitching and catching flies out

1067
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:19,640
there. 
Yeah, 7 GS CS I've got. 

1068
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,920
What did I get? 
I've got three CS7DS and 2ES. 

1069
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:26,240
That's not as far as what I got.
I need, I need like a I'm not 

1070
00:51:26,240 --> 00:51:29,240
saying I'm autistic or anything,
but I need if I'm not interested

1071
00:51:29,240 --> 00:51:31,760
in it, if it's not a hyper 
focus, for lack of a better 

1072
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,520
word, it, I will not retain it. 
I mean, even if I do like it, I 

1073
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:40,320
don't think I'll retain it. 
That's what you're just saying. 

1074
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,960
You're a dumb ass like nothing 
to live in your job. 

1075
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:44,600
I'm. 
Just earlier when you asked me a

1076
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,840
question and I was answering it,
I forgot what the question was 

1077
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:49,960
halfway through what I was 
talking about. 

1078
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,760
Mate, you did well. 
Because they no one noticed. 

1079
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:55,920
Mate, you cruised through that. 
I didn't have a clue. 

1080
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,080
Whatever bullshit you were 
coming out, we were listening. 

1081
00:51:58,080 --> 00:51:59,800
Have you thought about becoming 
a politician? 

1082
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:03,440
Yeah, I don't. 
I don't think that would work. 

1083
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:05,480
Bullshit baffles brains and all 
that. 

1084
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,360
Yeah, so. 
The white papers out now. 

1085
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:14,000
What happens in the life cycle 
of this white paper next? 

1086
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:17,840
We've got three months 
consultation, so that is where 

1087
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:21,200
we need to really get our voices
heard with. 

1088
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,160
There's an online form you can 
do on the government website. 

1089
00:52:24,720 --> 00:52:28,440
There are some consultations. 
I saw Hampshire Cindy as I think

1090
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,920
it is. 
Is it a Cindy as Yeah, might be 

1091
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:37,400
that they're doing consultations
with the disabled children's 

1092
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:39,760
something rather that was in the
room with us. 

1093
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,280
Sorry, definitely forgot their 
name for their children. 

1094
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:44,320
That's one. 
So they're going to be doing in 

1095
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:47,680
person consultations as well. 
I know that in Hampshire I'm 

1096
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:52,600
actually going to be doing like 
a parents voice as well. 

1097
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:56,040
So I, you know, everyone just 
needs to get all their thoughts 

1098
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:59,360
and feelings down and you need 
to learn, but you need to be 

1099
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:02,240
loud and you need to make sure 
that you put your two cents in 

1100
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:06,480
because now is really crucial. 
Because once the 12 weeks is up,

1101
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,680
although we still have time, 
that's when it goes into writing

1102
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:12,800
policies and laws. 
And although things can be 

1103
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:15,680
changed in these steps, like in 
the House of Lords and 

1104
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:17,640
everything, once it's going 
through Parliament and the House

1105
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,400
of Lords and then it goes into 
writing actual policies and 

1106
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,440
legalities, it gets more and 
more difficult to change. 

1107
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:27,520
It is possible it happened in 
2014, I think it was with, I 

1108
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:30,000
can't remember which act it was 
now, but it did happen. 

1109
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:32,800
But now is the most crucial 
time. 

1110
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,520
It's when we really need to 
really push to get everything 

1111
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:36,960
changed. 
So we need to get our voices in 

1112
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:38,160
now, right? 
There's a link for that. 

1113
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:40,520
Yeah, yeah, there is a link. 
There's a link, right? 

1114
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:41,480
So we need to get out of that 
time. 

1115
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:43,320
We need to, we need to stick 
that out. 

1116
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:46,200
OK, so act now rather than try 
and amend it, yeah? 

1117
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:47,800
Oh please. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1118
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:51,160
Well, and we are continuing to 
have meetings with in the 

1119
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:52,520
sender. 
Improvement group. 

1120
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:54,760
We're waiting for new dates to 
come in. 

1121
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:56,280
Yeah. 
But we will be doing that. 

1122
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:59,560
Voices in with us. 
Yeah, but we do need parents to 

1123
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:03,520
be backing us up along 
constantly along the way as loud

1124
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:05,640
as possible, because we can't do
it on our own. 

1125
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:07,440
We need that backing. 
Yeah. 

1126
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,240
Have you, have you seen this, 
this form online? 

1127
00:54:09,240 --> 00:54:10,160
Have you seen what it's like 
having? 

1128
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:12,440
Structured Wow, I've I've seen 
the web page for it. 

1129
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:14,960
I I didn't have the mental 
capacity after the white paper 

1130
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:16,840
dropping to actually drink on 
that link. 

1131
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:19,560
I was I was having a bit of a 
twitch by that point. 

1132
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:25,280
I was like, not today, Satan. 
No, I don't blame you mate. 

1133
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,800
Yeah, no, I just think, I, I 
think what I was going to say is

1134
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:30,840
I'll have to go and have a look 
and see what the layer. 

1135
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:33,880
Just how easy it is, because 
obviously another thing is a lot

1136
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:37,400
of parents, people might have 
learning disabilities and send 

1137
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,200
themselves. 
So it's not going to be easy. 

1138
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:43,960
So I will say if you do try and 
find someone who can help you go

1139
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:45,840
through it and voice your 
feelings as well and. 

1140
00:54:46,240 --> 00:54:48,440
That's what I was going to say. 
People need to try and be 

1141
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,040
succinct, I suppose, quite 
concise with any points they 

1142
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:55,200
want to raise because it's very 
easy to go into a tangent for 

1143
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,560
lack of a better wall, a waffle 
going into because then it's 

1144
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:01,840
going to be very difficult for 
these points to get raised in 

1145
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,600
time for you guys to keep. 
The emotions out of it, I know 

1146
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,520
hard because you know, we're 
we're angry. 

1147
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:10,760
We've been failed. 
You know, it's been shit like no

1148
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:12,120
one wants to keep going to 
tribunal. 

1149
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:14,680
No one wants to argue with the 
local authority. 

1150
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:18,200
And I know we're all angry and 
frustrated and honestly, the 

1151
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:20,520
white paper was like, you know, 
the cherry on top. 

1152
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:24,160
And but if you are going to be 
putting your points, make sure 

1153
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:27,560
that they are really logical. 
They are bullet pointed. 

1154
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:30,040
You keep the emotion out of it 
because that's what's going to 

1155
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:31,720
be seen. 
As soon as you start putting all

1156
00:55:31,720 --> 00:55:34,960
the emotional or any swearing or
anything else, yeah, it's not 

1157
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:38,240
going to be seen. 100% that's 
like the best advice for this 

1158
00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:39,080
stuff. 
It's the same. 

1159
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:40,760
As fall after. 
Is isn't it? 

1160
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:42,800
Fill in any DLA form. 
Don't be emotional. 

1161
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:44,520
Just say. 
Say what you need to say. 

1162
00:55:45,240 --> 00:55:47,560
Yeah, that's such good advice. 
But we've all got to do this. 

1163
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,680
Every family factor has to do 
this otherwise. 

1164
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:53,600
Then you have to take part to 
change it. 

1165
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:56,000
You can't not be happy and not 
do anything. 

1166
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:57,320
Yeah. 
Otherwise there's a little point

1167
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:59,640
moaning. 
Yeah, to a certain degree. 

1168
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:02,360
Afterwards, if you haven't had 
your two pens worth thrown in, 

1169
00:56:02,720 --> 00:56:03,720
yeah. 
Exactly. 

1170
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:06,840
Yeah. 
I get the feeling we're still in

1171
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:10,040
for a few more twists and turns.
I think so mate, but good 

1172
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:11,560
opening. 
I am going to keep trying 

1173
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:12,720
something. 
Shit that we're not happy with, 

1174
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:14,920
I think we'll. 
Still get things changed, I 

1175
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:18,360
think we're. 100%, yeah. 
Good, especially if people chip 

1176
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:20,360
in and. 
And. 

1177
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:23,800
And online, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
And not be Dicks to each other. 

1178
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:27,720
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Is there anything we haven't 

1179
00:56:27,720 --> 00:56:29,760
talked about that you think 
would be really useful I. 

1180
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:34,520
Think so? 
Anything only no. 

1181
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,200
Haley's just like, I don't 
really want to talk about this 

1182
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:40,400
anymore. 
It's just we've done everything 

1183
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:42,960
we. 
Just like, you know, there's 

1184
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:45,720
been some meetings. 
I've walked out of that meeting 

1185
00:56:45,720 --> 00:56:48,240
and I've just gone. 
What the fuck has just happened?

1186
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:50,000
Yeah. 
I remember texting you on the 

1187
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,320
train going wow, in the last 10 
minutes of that meeting. 

1188
00:56:53,720 --> 00:56:54,960
What? 
What on earth? 

1189
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:59,200
Yeah. 
I remember that one, yeah. 

1190
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:01,520
Wow. 
Wow. 

1191
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:02,640
Cool. 
OK. 

1192
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:06,400
Well, I mean, so I just really 
enjoyed that. 

1193
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:08,360
That's exactly what I thought it
was going to be. 

1194
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:12,920
Yeah. 
Because when you all you get is 

1195
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:16,000
leaks. 
And then those were frustrating.

1196
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:18,920
And then even even did not keep 
me in Kansai obviously like 

1197
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:21,080
Georgia was like. 
Doing the range strict with us 

1198
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:22,880
like they've given us. 
Are we still recording by the 

1199
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:23,920
way? 
Yeah, still. 

1200
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:24,920
Recording, yeah. 
OK, Yeah. 

1201
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:27,280
You can tell us off camera. 
Yeah. 

1202
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:30,600
But yeah, we're, we're, they 
were very strict with us about 

1203
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:32,240
what we could and can say. 
So but. 

1204
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:34,680
Kiss me. 
Don't don't cut this one out. 

1205
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,880
They used to give us like the 
paper for us to read and be like

1206
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:40,280
the first time they gave it to 
us, we were like, oh, cool, put 

1207
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:41,920
our notes on it and they're 
like, oh, we need those back 

1208
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:43,280
afterwards. 
Like could you not told us at 

1209
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:45,480
the beginning? 
You can't be trusted. 

1210
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:47,120
So you've got a fucking note on 
it. 

1211
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:50,240
Goodness me. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1212
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:51,840
Nothing was allowed out the 
room. 

1213
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:56,560
OK, well, that's yeah, we had, 
we had a couple of embargoed 

1214
00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:59,320
emails, just the date the day 
before and the morning off. 

1215
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:00,760
We thought we were special for 
getting that. 

1216
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:02,640
But you guys, you guys were 
really special. 

1217
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:07,920
You were like, well, in which 
actually was more painful than. 

1218
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,560
It was and it was. 
Always really short notice as 

1219
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:12,560
well. 
It'd be like, and tomorrow I'm 

1220
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:14,400
like, cool, I'll just try and 
get my husband to get another 

1221
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:15,720
two hours off work for free. 
Yeah. 

1222
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:18,960
Yeah, Yeah, we get a bit of that
sometimes if we have jobs like 

1223
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:21,720
we've got 9 to fives, we can't 
actually just drop everything 

1224
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:24,120
and. 
Luckily I am self-employed but 

1225
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:27,040
still I'm like trying to sort 
childcare 3 kids. 

1226
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:29,000
It still hits you in the pocket 
though, doesn't it? 

1227
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:29,600
Yeah. 
It does. 

1228
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:32,080
I've been paid off a massive 
loss. 

1229
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:35,240
Like probably about 4000 lbs 
since November. 

1230
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:37,600
Like financially, that's how 
much I've lost. 

1231
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:42,800
But I never went into this to 
gain anything other than to make

1232
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:46,520
sure, you know, children are 
going to get the education so 

1233
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:48,840
that they're going to thrive. 
No one wants their kids to go to

1234
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,760
school and be traumatised. 
Like, how is that going to make 

1235
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,640
them upstanding them society? 
They're actually going to then 

1236
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:57,080
be a tax burden, which is an 
economic problem. 

1237
00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:58,680
I don't know how they can't get 
their head around. 

1238
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:00,720
That's my goal at the end of the
day with parents, and the whole 

1239
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:04,040
point of parenting is to make 
your children the best they can 

1240
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:06,200
be, be upstanding. 
But the ability that they, yeah.

1241
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:11,240
And be liked by people, Like 
just just be good people, not 

1242
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:12,880
necessarily pay taxes. 
Who said that? 

1243
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:15,720
A Farage A. 
Farage one, but you know. 

1244
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:17,920
Just be the best they could be. 
That's literally all our jobs 

1245
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:19,800
are really. 
As parents, that's literally all

1246
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:20,600
we're supposed to do. 
Just. 

1247
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:22,320
Fulfil their potential. 
Exactly. 

1248
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:24,680
Exactly. 
So is that it? 

1249
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:26,400
I think that's it. 
I think that's it. 

1250
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:30,360
Guys, thank you very much and 
thank you for for. 

1251
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:32,560
Yeah, emotionally you've 
obviously put yourselves in 

1252
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:34,080
there, but but financially 
you've. 

1253
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:38,320
You've I became a Raven 
alcoholic Exactly that was 

1254
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:39,960
probably that was where extra 
money going. 

1255
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:42,760
It was probably about 4500 LB 
actually with the amount of 

1256
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:46,080
alcohol I brought. 
Well, I don't think you know the

1257
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:48,160
amount you spent on booze. 
You can't really complain about 

1258
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:51,800
that. 
Mine would have been double, 

1259
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:56,280
Yeah, we've been double that. 
No, thank you very much. 

1260
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:58,400
And thank you. 
Thank you guys for actually 

1261
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:01,840
going out there and standing up 
for all of us as well. 

1262
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:03,840
It is absolutely appreciative. 
Fair. 

1263
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:06,440
You guys were pretty quiet about
it. 

1264
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:08,640
You weren't moaning about it, 
you were just getting on with 

1265
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:11,000
it. 
I think most, almost all of the 

1266
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:13,400
community had no idea how 
involved you really were. 

1267
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:17,200
I think I was too scared to put 
anything online because of the 

1268
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:20,520
hate that we, whenever we did 
pay, stuff got quite bad. 

1269
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:25,720
So I was too even putting out a 
post of my daughter coming with 

1270
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:29,240
me to #10 and around the Houses 
of Parliament and, you know, 

1271
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:32,520
meeting Mr Starmer, you know, 
even then there was comments 

1272
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:34,400
going, you know, I'm really 
angry that you did this. 

1273
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:36,640
And I'm like, they were like, 
what's the point? 

1274
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:40,240
I'm like because I'm in the room
and my daughter got to ask a 

1275
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:42,440
question. 
These are the same people that 

1276
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:46,680
say, yeah, the same people that 
would say, like you said there, 

1277
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:48,800
why are you doing that? 
You're a sellout, blah, blah, 

1278
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:50,520
blah. 
And then the next day they'll be

1279
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:52,520
like, why? 
Why haven't got anybody there 

1280
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:53,640
representing us? 
Yeah. 

1281
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:56,920
Well, and also if they were 
invited that you can, you can 

1282
01:00:56,920 --> 01:01:00,200
guarantee they'd be there and. 
Gosh, a cup of tea and that's 

1283
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:02,720
fine. 
Yeah, but we I quite like not 

1284
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:05,640
being everyone's cup of tea. 
No, yeah, I'm a bit like 

1285
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:08,040
Marmite. 
Yeah, no skin off our nose. 

1286
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:10,920
No, no, it's fun guys. 
Really appreciate everything 

1287
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:13,560
you've done, the money you've 
spent, the emotions, everything.

1288
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:15,320
Really appreciate it. 
I know the community does. 

1289
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:17,640
Most of the community and the 
ones that don't can get fucked. 

1290
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:23,400
Facebook, we see you. 
So yeah, just thank you guys 

1291
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:25,760
because it is appreciated. 
I know sometimes it might not 

1292
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:28,320
feel like it is, but it is. 
Thank you very much. 

1293
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:30,040
Thanks for having us. 
Cheers guys. 

1294
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:31,200
Take care. 
Bye bye, bye, bye, bye.