everybody to another episode of the Men's Sexual Mastery podcast
where we are supporting our brothers awakening and
empowering and aligning themselves into their fullest
sexual potential, stepping into the men they came here to be.
I'm joined here today by my fellow Co host and Co founder
Ian Hawks as well as my brother Mark Holman.
Mark, it's great to have you on the show today.
Welcome, brother. Yeah, thanks man.
I'm excited to dive in. Yeah.
And so for anyone listening in, Mark is a men's holistic health
and testosterone optimization coach.
He is the founder of Unchained, a men's online support community
that is helping men reclaim their holistic male testosterone
optimization and stepping into the leadership and the the
masculinity that is our birthright.
And Mark, I'd love to just start by passing out things to you to
share a little bit about what you do and what brought you into
this work. Yeah.
So a little bit about what I do mentalistic health.
So the main thing that I focus on is testosterone and how I do
that is through using functional blood work.
So I address the root cause, like I was telling you guys a
little bit before this of we're not using like TRT or anything
like that. We're addressing the actual root
cause as to why a man's testosterone might be low, why a
man's health, energy, vitality are all out of whack.
And we're addressing that. And how I do that is through
using blood work and analyzing that and seeing how all the
different pieces fit together. One what like nutrient
deficiencies there might be, if there's gut health issues, if
organs like the thyroid are dysfunctional, All of these
things like the body is such a complex Organism.
Looking at the different systems, how they're functioning
and then optimizing for that and how I got into this, just my own
journey. I used to work at 9:00 to 5:00
as an engineer and I was just like, I hated it every second of
it. I was depressed, I was lonely.
I had low testosterone, all of the symptoms of it, like low
energy, everything I had. And so I know what it feels like
with low testosterone and just not feeling masculine, not
having any type of masculine essence or potency.
And so now on the other side of that, I know what it's like to
like be in masculine leadership and have high testosterone.
And I just want every man on the planet to experience that and
feel that because there's so much power that comes from it.
When your health, your hormones are all locked in.
And then you have the embodiment piece and the personal
development, sexual mastery side of things to then plug into and
just become like the fullest expression of man that you can,
you can be. Yeah, brother.
Well, celebrating you, honoring you for stepping into that work
and into that leadership, you know, assisting so many men.
I was curious to ask, you know, there's a a bit of an epidemic
that I just for anyone who's tuning in here that they may not
be aware of with testosterone and can you speak a little bit
about that? Yeah.
So the quote, there's a quote that goes, I think it's a 20
year old today has the same testosterone levels as a 67 year
old in the year 2000. So that just illustrates the
decline of testosterone and just how men are showing up as well
As for the factors at play, it's holistic, right?
There's tons, there's tons of them.
The main ones we can boil down to I think are men are a lot
more stressed, a lot more stressed out.
They're working these nine to five jobs in cubicles doing
things that they necessarily don't really want to do.
They're not connected to their purpose and that creates a sense
of dis ease and stress within their body.
And that can up regulate cortisol, which is going to
trash testosterone levels. Sleep.
Men aren't sleeping. People in general just aren't
sleeping as well as deeply due to the junk light that's around
everywhere, the stress as well that's playing into that poor
nutritional habits just like not taking care of care of
themselves. And then we can go more into the
societal aspects of almost this war on masculinity and calling
masculinity toxic. And from a young age, boys are
told being a man and being manly is wrong and how that is
implicating on their behavior and them being more passive.
And when you're more passive, like testosterone operates on a
positive feedback. If you're more passive, you let
people cross your boundaries, that's going to lower your
testosterone. Rather, if you're a strong,
assertive, dominant man, that's going to not only produce more
testosterone, but it's also what makes testosterone as well.
Yeah. Can you speak a little more to
that? I was curious to hear you said a
positive feedback loop. Is that what you called it?
Could you could you actually speak a little more about that?
Yeah. So it's essentially like
twofold. Men with higher testosterone do
habits and do things that create more testosterone.
So let's we can use the the passive versus assertive
example. A man who's more passive, he's
probably gonna like on average, he's gonna have lower
testosterone levels. Therefore he's not going to have
the ability, the the physiological prerequisite to
have confidence to have self worth, to then assert himself,
to assert boundaries, to hold up boundaries.
And therefore that's a negative feedback loop.
Like when you get when you get a boundary crossed, when you're
more passive and you know, inside like I, I could have done
something different there. I could have, I could have
spoken up and you don't. I feel like a lot of us know
that feeling. I was just like just
constrictive and there's a lot of different things that are
going on, but that is that negative feedback loop of
testosterone starting to decrease as well.
So on the flip side of that, a man who's confident, who's
assertive, just if his testosterone levels are base
level higher, he's going to have more confidence.
He's going to feel more able to assert himself or have a create
a confrontation, have an opinion that might be disagreed with,
but he has more confidence in his self, more self
assertiveness so that he's more willing to to do something about
it. And then you know the feeling of
that as well. Like you assert yourself, you
hold a boundary. It's like, fuck yeah, like no
one can can cross me. You feel kind of that like I'm
untouchable, that then it's the positive feedback loop that
tells your body that we're producing more.
This is the type of man that we're, we are.
This is the type of life that we live.
And that makes the the positive feedback loop go and produce
even more. Yeah, well, I love that you're
bringing in the mindset piece around this too.
I can really sense everything you're talking about is so is so
holistic. And yeah, I, I love that there's
nothing missed, you know, in this approach that you're
speaking to. I'm curious for, for the average
guy, let's say that comes to you that, you know, let's say he's
got his sleep routine down, he's his stress levels are, you know,
maintained. He's on purpose, he's working
out, he's got a good nutrition, he's eating well, he's doing
high intensity training and everything else.
When you do the blood work with these guys or when guys come
into your training program, what would you say are the most
common areas that he actually could use more assistance in and
what what do you usually bring to guys who are kind of already
at a a solid baseline? Yeah, that's a really good
question. And what I see a lot is
absorption issues, especially for the guys who, like, I'm
doing everything right and like I'm eating clean and I'm eating
all the right foods, get into the blood work.
And I see like, maybe their cholesterol is low because
they're not able to absorb and digest the fats in their food.
Like they might eat tons of eggs, but they're not absorbing
that and therefore they're not getting the nutrients, they're
not getting the prerequisites to actually produce testosterone.
So that's a big one that I see is like the lack of absorption,
which could be caused by either like a gut infection, like a
SIBO, candida mold, something like that, or just again, not
having the adequate nutrients. Deficiencies in zinc and B12 can
create low stomach acid. And then if you have low stomach
acid, you're not going to be able to digest protein, digest
the nutrients that come in the foods.
And that's that's probably the biggest one that I see pretty
consistently. Mark, when you're speaking to
looking at blood work in that sense is would if somebody had
like high total testosterone levels but low free testosterone
levels, is that something that would also clue you into an
absorption issue? Potentially.
So I feel like a lot of the questions that you're going to
ask, I'm going to say it depends because it does.
So potentially, yeah, it could be a nutrient deficiency based
on absorption. Usually when free levels are
low, it's because SHBG, sex hormone binding globulin is
high. And that could be high due to a
whole host of reasons. It's produced in the liver.
So there's a lot of liver connection with that.
So if the liver is a little bit out of whack, like if someone's
drinking, that goes in hand in hand with the absorption issues
as well. Bile is produced in the liver
and bile is needed to absorb fats.
So there's a lot of in interconnectivity with that
nutrient deficiencies as well. So like if you're a division in
vitamin D, that's not really an absorption thing.
That's more of like a lifestyle sunlight thing, but then also
making sure your magnesium status is, is adequate too.
So I'm just like branching off all these different different
tangents based on that one question and short answer like
yes, but long answer there's a lot more interconnectivity as to
like maybe why? Yeah, I appreciate that root
cause approach that you're taking and it certainly does
require a lot of a lot of asterisks and further
investigations. So appreciate that you're doing
that with men. It's, you know, my partner's a
naturopathic Dr. and one of the things that that she often says
is libido and our sexual health is directly related and a result
of our overall health and vitality.
And I, I think that our hormone levels and those markers in our
blood work are, can also be representative of what's going
on behind the scenes and can, can require a deeper dive into
repair and adjusting certain diet or lifestyle approaches or
incorporating other means of, of healing to, to actually prime
the body to, to be in a state to hold a higher sexual health.
Is that, yeah. Does that like feel true in your
work? Yeah, 100%.
Like tapping on that too. You can see someone maybe have
high total testosterone and high free testosterone, but they
still have a low libido. That could be due to the the
balance of all the other things. So like estradiol, estrogen
levels and prolactin levels, if those two are also really high
as well, the balance can be thrown off and they can
experience the low testosterone symptoms like the lack of
libido, maybe poor erection quality as well.
So it's like, again, there's just like another, there's like
continually deeper and deeper layers to this.
Like most people, they just look at total testosterone.
They don't know about free. Then you can look at free and
then you think you stopped there, but then it's like, OK,
what about SHBG? What about prolactin?
What about estradiol? We're getting a little bit
technical here, but it's about the just like driving home the
point of it's the whole picture. It's holistic.
It's like everything. You can just look at one marker
in isolation and conclude from that.
You need to see the whole thing. Yeah, And just to hop in here
too, just for our listeners tuning in, you know, it would be
a disservice to not mention, of course, the effects, the
correlation between testosterone and your sexual health.
So I'll name a few. And Mark, I'd love to just hear
any additional riffs you have as an expert in this.
You know, I think the biggest one most guys know is obviously
just confidence and, you know, feeling well and feeling that
assertiveness, that positive feedback loop.
You spoke to libido, the production of nitric oxide and
increased vascular, you know, increased direction, quality
sperm production. Are there any others you would
throw into their mark that in ways that testosterone can
optimize your sex life? Yeah, energy levels.
So like if you work a nine to five or just a normal job or
even as an entrepreneur, you come home and you're exhausted.
Like that's going to impact your sexual health as well.
You're not going to have the desire.
You might have the desire, but like it fades because you're
just like, I can't, I don't have the energy to even get up and go
to go pee or whatever. So like that's a that's a big
one there. Yeah.
Confidence was, it was a big one too, just like self worth, like
maybe that desire isn't there because of insecurity that that
you might have coming from like a different, different ones
there. Yeah.
I think those from the sexual health lens, I think those are
pretty comprehensive. Yeah.
And I was curious, Mark, if so, if someone were to step into
your program and into what you do and what you offer, what is
the process look like? So let's back up again to let's
say that guy who kind of has a pretty standard baseline.
He's health conscious, he's fit, he's doing all these things.
And you mentioned those markers that may be off.
What would the process look like if he were to start working with
you? And I I believe you offer a free
blood analysis right to begin. And then how would you guide
that man along the path? Yeah.
So like I said, it all starts with blood work.
If they have blood work, they come in and I'll be able to look
at it and tell them like this, this and this, and then come up
with a protocol that's specific to them.
But yeah, all starts with blood work.
Comprehensive panel. It's not just hormones, it's not
just what's your testosterone at.
It's literally like 50 plus markers, sometimes 6065 plus.
Just getting a really comprehensive view of what's
going on with this person's health from a foundational
level, holistically, all the different systems.
And then from that developed training, lifestyle,
supplementation, nutrition based on what gaps he has.
So it's very like precise. It's not just like, this is my
dogma. I'm a carnivore.
So like everyone has to do carnivore.
I'm a carnivore coach. Like, no, not at all.
Because for some people that might not work.
Some people, they might have hemochromatosis and if they eat
a ton of red meat, their iron goes through the roof and they
just can't handle that. That's just like one example.
So it's really just finding what that person needs exactly where
they're at in their life, their stress levels, their goals,
their Physiology, their biology, like even their psychology, all
of that, it's factored in. And then we come up with this
protocol that's very clear, very precise.
And the only like the only way that they don't get results is
if they don't do it. So like I'm pretty confident in
that because it's based on them. It's, it's pretty clear.
So then I create the like structure and systems to ensure
that they do do it. So like if usually if someone
comes into my world like and they join the program and they
have the like application and the agency to do it, there's no
way they're not going to get a result.
Yeah. And do you do panels like every
couple months and things like that just to be checking in on
all those levels? Yeah, depends on the person at
least like a start and a finish. I like to do every six months.
Yeah, six months. So I do also like midway
through. So like we'll run through
initial protocol, see how that goes, Check, check back in.
Usually things have improved and then we can be a little bit more
specific and customized based on what that person wants.
So usually it's like phase one, optimize health foundationally.
And then phase two, it's like go hard on hormones, whether that's
like specific supplementation, like leaning more into the
leadership side of things and like the high tea lifestyle and
the the competition and assertiveness and that that side
of things, the embodiment side of things to just really just
blow, blow the top off. Mark, you mentioned supplements
there. Could you speak to what some of
your supplement protocols or some of your favorite
supplements are? Yeah.
So I find it really interesting that that's the biggest question
that I get. Like what supplements do I take
for testosterone optimization? Like everyone's asked me that
studies have shown that like supplements are only going to
give you 10 to 20% increase. So very, they do have a place.
And then coming back to the question and I, I like
supplements like I'm, I'm not saying that they're, they're
worthless, but there's a lot more at play.
But also with this, like within this, there's so much just even
within the supplement conversation, we can talk for,
for hours. First off, it's like you need to
supplement with what your body needs.
So zinc is, some people say zinc's an amazing test booster.
If you're not deficient in zinc, it's not going to do shit for
you because you're fine already. The only reason why it increases
testosterone is if it's deficient.
Yeah. And if you're overdoing it with
something like zinc, that can actually have a detrimental
effect to, I think it's calcium levels.
Or. Copper, yeah, it'll throw off
copper levels and other micro micronutrients like magnesium
and calcium are similar to that. Like all these nutrients, if you
over supplement, they can throw the balance of something else
off. So that's a really important
thing to note. Like does your body need this?
How do you know that you do bloods?
And then you also have to know what the supplement does.
So a lot of people talk about Tong Cat Alley like I love Tong
Cat alley. I've had great results with
that. Why most people use it and use
it is because they just it's AT booster.
But in reality, what it does is it it helps with the stress
mediate mediated response. So if someone's like really
stressed out, that's where Tongkat could be really good for
that person. If someone has a stress
management and levels fine, they take Tom Katali, they might not
get the the boost that they wanted.
So it's really being intelligent with the supplementation.
It's being precise with that, not just like throwing the whole
cabinet list at at you and just see what sticks.
That might work because one of the one or two of those your
body might actually need. But then you just don't really
know you don't know what worked. And then going even deeper on
that, the supplement industry wildly unregulated.
So you can get, again, with Tom Katali, you can get a Tong
Katali product, but if it's shit quality, it's not going to have
any of the active ingredient that's actually doing the thing
that increases your testosterone.
So making sure these ingredients are high quality, they're
standardized for the active ingredient that's like studied
in studies. So there's a little bit of like
research that someone has to do or like obviously I know all
this stuff. So working with a professional
that knows how to properly supplement with the right things
based on what that person actually needs.
Yeah. And source too, right, Those
connections. Yeah.
I had a question here, Mark,
about your perspective on semen retention.
At Men's Sexual Mastery, we like to use the word semen intention,
not retention, because there can be extreme cases of problems
that come up with retention. But just in general, do you see
a correlation, you know, in your work and your metrics with guys
conserving their semen and their testosterone levels?
Yeah. So there's actually a study that
was done that showed semen retention or intention for a
week and then on the 5th day there was 100% increase in
testosterone. I don't really think that that
study's that high quality, but it's kind of interesting to see
that after a few days of the boost was pretty, pretty high.
I think just from I can break this down from like a science
level of let's take the the typical guy who's not semen, not
doing semen retention, he's probably watching porn and he's
probably ejaculating, you know, if if not every day, like let's
say three times a week. So physiologically, when you're
consistently ejaculating, something called prolactin goes
really high and prolactin lowers testosterone, it creates a lower
Dr. lower motivation, can create brain fog, can create that just
like, you know, after you ejaculate a man just like, OK,
cool, I want to go to bed now. Like think about that
consistently elevated. So you're going to get that
same. That's going to be your baseline
if you're consistently ejaculating.
And then also from a neurotransmitter perspective,
when you're ejaculating alone and using porn and masturbation,
that dump of dopamine and skyrocket of prolactin is a lot
more exaggerated than if you were having sex with a partner.
So like that's a key distinction there as well based on the
neurotransmitters. And then when dopamine gets
crashed through porn, through consistent masturbation, that's
like key for drive and motivation and dopamine and
testosterone heavily correlated. So if you're dumping your
dopamine, testosterone's going to follow and it's going to be
low as well. And then speaking anecdotally,
so I went through a breakup about a year ago and then after
that, like two months after that, I went into like a semen
retention. And let's say that was maybe in
December. And then I did a test in
February, and that's when my testosterone was the highest.
I don't think there was the sole reason, but it was a
contributing factor. And then also anecdotally, how I
was feeling like again, without that consistent dump of
dopamine, without the rise and prolactin, I was able to use
more of that energy and recirculate it back into myself.
And I just felt like AI felt like a fucking beast.
Like my driving motivation was at all time highs, my libido was
like through the roof, I was crushing in business.
Like every aspect of my life was just way better.
And there's a lot of other things that were at play as
well. But it it is something that I
would recommend. And I do feel like there's tons
and tons of value. I don't think the science is
really there yet. It's because it's like more of
an esoteric practice and getting that studied might be a little
bit difficult. But I think just because this is
my kind of gripe with the scientific community as well as
like just because there's only anecdotal evidence doesn't mean
that it's not true. Like maybe there's not a peer
reviewed study on this. It doesn't mean that it's not
true. Like the, our capability of
understanding and seeing and experiencing everything in the
universe is, is where we get like 1%.
So thinking that just because there's no peer reviewed study
on it doesn't mean that it's true.
Like I think that's kind of crazy.
So anecdotally, I think there's a lot of evidence.
You talk to anyone who's done it, they're like, bro, it's
amazing. And I think that's that's
enough. Yeah, yeah.
And that's AI. Appreciate those shares.
And just as a brother who is devoted to understanding the
science, you know the whole holistic picture.
Anecdotally, I would just be curious if you were to guess
based on your own personal experience, what percentage it,
let's say if 10 to 20% of your testosterone levels or your
masculine embodiment is due to supplements supplementation.
If you were to throw semen retention into that, what what
kind of a category would it be similar to that or what would
you rank that at? Yeah, that's an interesting one.
I haven't really thought too much about that.
I think if you're, I think there's a lot of intention that
needs to go into it as well. If you're just doing it just to
do it, maybe percentage is a little bit lower.
But if you're very intentional with it and like actively
recirculating that energy into other things, like intentionally
back into yourself, I think you can get a pretty high, high
boost. Hard for me to say percentage
wise though, Like I'm nothing, no numbers really coming to
mind. It's kind of hard for me to
pinpoint that. Yeah, I know because there's no
science behind it or anything like that.
It's hard to like go out on a limb and say a percentage, but
would you say it's like a significant or very or minor?
I would. I would say it's significant,
yeah, yeah. I, I think about it similarly to
something you spoke to at the beginning of the conversation,
Mark this, these cascading benefits, you're talking about
how as we become more assertive, as we create more boundaries, as
we create more structure and direction and purpose in our
life, that has a positive influence on our testosterone
levels, which will then result in US having more energy and
capacity to continue in that direction.
And I look at semen intention in a similar way as we create that
containment and direction and intention in our life.
And all those felt experiences, regardless of whether they can
be shown in a lab result or not, those felt experiences of
increased libido, increased Dr. something that almost across the
board men coming through our program experiences like, oh, if
I wasn't already working out, now I'm practicing semen
intention and I've got all this energy and it needs somewhere to
go. So I'm going to go hit the gym.
Like so many guys come into our program and within a few weeks
they're like, yeah, so I started working out again and it feels
great. And so I also look at it, it's
like it's, it's one, it's one piece that can have a much, it
can influence so many other aspects of our lifestyle that
all of that combined is, is part of the big picture, which is
what I think you're really looking at and, and working
with. Yeah, I love that lens too,
because like something I I also say is like testosterone, having
adequate levels of that gets you into the arena, like you're
more, more able to approach whatever might be uncomfortable
or something that you want to avoid.
And that's, that's the moment where you gain skills, you gain
more confidence. And that's like also a key part
of the, the positive feedback loop of getting into the arena
and like doing doing things and having like, if you're low T,
you're less likely to, to do things to approach, like
approach a woman that you find is cute to speak up in a
business meeting and, and bring up an idea.
And then so like high tea men, they get further in life because
they have that prerequisite to then like approach a cert and do
all these things. And that's just like the
positive feedback a little bit. As well.
Yeah. And I'm loving this
conversation. It's just, you know, to me, the
these foundational pillars just for guys tuning in, you know,
and you spoke in the very beginning about stress, cortisol
levels being connected to purpose, being like #1 sleep,
you know, I would even throw in like hydration, nutrition,
working out, you know, and getting high intensity, high
strength workouts. I would also add in that seem
the cool thing about our semen is that just like our sleep and
just like our stress levels, like some of the highest markers
and ways you can get started if you're listening on to this is
really already within you and it's free, you know, and once
you get it optimized, actually once you get it dialed in, I can
imagine, Mark, for guys who come through your training program
and they're in that positive feedback loop and it's
compounding, right? Like the actual maintenance of
it once it's up and running, even with the initial upfront
expenses like investing a professional like you getting
the blood work done, investing in the supplementation, getting
a gym membership, you know, all these investments like once you
get to that level, I can imagine the maintenance is actually it
just compounds on itself. Would you say that feels?
True. Yeah, 100% because especially
from the lifestyle perspective, like you, you get yourself out
of the low T hole. That's the hardest part.
And it's like, you know, your lifestyle's in that negative
feedback loop and is once you pop into the positive feedback
loop, then it it just, it's just way easier because you're going
to have more and when you have more, you do more.
That gets you more. I'm curious, Mark, if you just
is a kind of a personal question and it might come off a little
funny, but when you interact with guys and like shake their
hands and are talking with them, Can you, I'm curious if do you
feel like you can get a pretty good sense of their T levels And
like could you actually write a number down?
And have you ever compared that with a guy who comes into your
program like on a discovery call and then guess what his.
Numbers are and do you feel like you, you get pretty attuned to
that as a guy who works all the time.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Like I can, I can tell 'cause
it's, it's like a body language thing as well.
Handshake for sure. Like, you know, some people can
like overcompensate with that because they know it's a thing.
Like I'm going to grip your hand really hard just just so you
know. But yeah, I can kind of tell
just like how someone carries themselves, like if they're
going to be high T or low T, it's just, it's just different.
Like it's something that you can feel, you can feel when a man is
like one embodied in their masculinity.
And then also I think that there's a lot of carryover
embodied in like have and also having high testosterone.
You feel, you can feel that, especially if you've been in the
space and you've had conversations and you know, a
lot of the guys that get on calls with me, it's kind of like
a it's a challenge because you know, they're in the negative
feedback loop of low T and they like don't want to make a
decision. They want to, don't want to take
something that's a little bit uncomfortable.
So then they get in that feedback loop and these are the
guys who like have to talk to their wife or can't make a
decision, can't step forward because they're just stuck in
that. So that's kind of the challenge
of getting these guys who struggle to make decisions to
make a decision that's going to like absolutely change their
life. And then once they get, once
they start and make that decision, like they're in my
world, there's no way they're failing.
I want to bring that back to an earlier thing we were talking
about around the relationship between testosterone and sex and
what you were speaking to there, Mark.
Like it's felt you can feel that as a man, and you can bet that
women are feeling that as well. And so like our attraction, the
level to which we are attractive to women is also related to our
testosterone levels, whether we like it or not.
It's not the only thing, but biologically there is something
there that is felt by the world around us.
And there's a reason why women, some women will sometimes go and
have an affair with the, with the biker, with the, the, the
Uber masculine man or like, whether it's an affair or not,
they might go and have, you know, feel attracted and drawn
to that Uber masculine man, someone that's exuding some of
those qualities of high testosterone levels.
And there's a, there's, there is a biological piece at work
there. And, and I think that often
happens for women during ovulation when they're also at
their peak in their feminine expression and, and in their,
you know, sexual openness. And I'm just curious like what
comes up for you with that? Yeah, I love that conversation.
I make these posts sometimes. I used to think the caption was
like low testosterone men tend to get cheated on or get cheated
on and that it goes to what you're saying right there.
Like if you're a low testosterone man, you're
probably not leading as well as you could.
You don't have that like felt experience, probably don't have
like the attractive physique in all these different things.
But I think it more so it's just how how like the feminine is
experiencing you as a low testosterone man.
They don't they're not really feeling much from you.
So if some other man who's just like embodied in high tea as
fuck, like it's kind of, it's kind of shitty to say, but I
feel like it's it's all over the averages.
It's going to be more true. If you just compare 2 scenarios
of a man who has high testosterone and he's showing up
and he's leading his woman, there's tons of polarity.
The likelihood of her going and seeking that elsewhere is very
low. She's not getting LED.
If she's not feeling like in her feminine, she's not feeling
desired and attractive. The high the likelihood of her
going elsewhere is higher. I mean, I think it's just, it's
just factual to say that some people get upset when I say
things like that. But I mean, it's just that it's
the truth in my opinion. Yeah, the polarity that you
spoke to is that's what was coming up for me as well.
This is like a biological polarity enhancer.
And it's not, you know, the it's a biological marker.
But as you're speaking to, it has all of these other
influences on how we carry ourselves in the world.
And all of that serves to amplify polarity.
And when there's really strong polarity, there's strong
attraction and there's there's no way around that.
I mean, there is a way around it, which is also really nice
empowering part about this is there are ways for us to
influence these levels. Yeah.
And one of the side effects of influencing these levels, if
done in a really holistic, intentional way with someone
like yourself, is that you're also just going to boost your
health and vitality in all aspects of life.
Yeah, you're just going to become more magnetic in general
because like I've experienced that that side of things of like
a, a low T man previously, like in the relationship, being a
nice guy, not being able to stand up for myself and just so
afraid of confrontation. So I've experienced that lack of
polarity and and that was in my previous relationship.
And yeah, I've I like the things that I was talking about.
I have experienced that. I understand that.
I know what that feels like. So I feel like I can speak on
that pretty confidently. And then also I know the flip
side of that and like the relationship that I'm in now is
so different because I'm more embodied in that high T in
masculine leadership, there is tons of polarity.
And so I've felt both. And so I feel like I can
confidently say that when a man is, we can say showing up as low
T. Like the felt experience from
the feminine is just like completely different.
And like if it's crazy because like when you're showing up in
that, that embodiment of masculinity, you just get
whatever the hell you want and it's just so good.
Yeah, Mark, actually that brought up a question I had for
you. You know, in a lot of our
teachings and you know, the Dow and a lot of these practices,
they talk about the middle path, which is called Wu Wei, between
the yin and the Yang and the, you know, the darkness and the
light, the masculine and the feminine.
And generally speaking, just as a principle of energy of the
laws of the universe, like there are these extremes and there is
harmony where we balance all things.
I'm curious within the realm and the lens of testosterone, if you
see an area where it can get out of balance and too extreme, and
if there's anything you could speak to about balance or
harmony in working towards building and optimizing your
testosterone. Yeah.
So I think in terms of like the natural route, I don't think you
can really get too far out of balance in terms of like too
much testosterone. There can be out of bounds.
Like if your testosterone is a little bit higher than normal,
then like the estrogen, if you're aromatizing a lot,
estrogen can be a lot higher. And that can create like that's
actually what creates the anger and like the typical roid rage
symptoms is that sometimes that's like their estrogen
levels are actually a lot higher than they need to be.
It's not necessarily just testosterone, because
testosterone it's can almost like lower that that aggression
in terms of like it can make you more grounded.
It can lower the feet. Like it quiets the amygdala,
which is the fear center in the brain.
So with like optimal levels of that, you're going to be calm,
which I've experienced as well. Like there's it's like the it's
more that like warrior in the garden of like you're you're
dangerous, but not a danger. I love that.
I think it's Travor Boehm. He's a fucking G.
So there's, there's that aspect and then going into the
unnatural route of like taking TRT that can get levels to a
pretty, pretty high level. And if you're not careful,
there's a lot of fertility things that can, that can that
can happen as well because you're shutting down the natural
production. So your balls necessarily aren't
working anymore. So that's going to lower sperm
production as well. So that's how things can get out
of whack. If people, a lot of these young
guys are hopping on TRT because they want to get jacked fast,
but they don't realize that they could have some lasting impacts
on their fertility if they want to be a father later down the
road. So like, there's a lot of
instances like that where there's consequences for these,
for these actions. Yeah.
I feel like there was one more thing I wanted to say but it
left me. Well, I appreciate what you said
about being a warrior in the garden.
And, you know, I definitely wanted to highlight that as well
as part of this conversation, you know, especially talking
about shaking a man's hand, feeling his T levels, feeling
his embodied masculinity. You know, I see personally like
testosterone as very similar to sexual energy, to money, to
power, to technology. None of these things are good or
evil. It's not like that.
It's just powerful. So it's like if we're, if this
is rocket fuel containment and integrity, I guess is the
biggest piece I want to bring in here.
You know, to me, shaking a man's hand who is powerful, who is
tapped into that energy, who can do anything and make the world,
you know, bend over at his will, but also has that restraint and
that ability to maintain coherence between his words and
his actions. You know, that's a big piece
that I, I think we're all probably on the same page on,
but just wanted to add that in as part of the stack as like
staying connected to the heart and not just being led by our
balls all the time. And we talk a lot in our work
about hardcock coherence. I sense that is like for me.
Just my own input on finding this balance and curious if
anything comes up for you in that.
Yeah, yeah. What I was going to say earlier
came back up. So thank you for pinging that in
me. Yeah.
So it's like you mentioned money and we look at money, it's just
an amplifier of everything of all your energy.
And I look at testosterone in the same way, like you said.
So if you're insecure, that's only going to amplify your
insecurities. Like if you like for whatever in
terms of in, in a relationship or in a like physical
standpoint, insecure about your body, like that's only going to
make these things more prevalent.
So that's where the the mental emotional embodiment part comes
in as well. And it's like equally as
important, you can have the physiological prereq, you can
OK, like you have high testosterone, but then how do
you use it? Like how are you able to direct
it almost like banks of a river, like without it, it just floods
everything. But using the embodiment and
probably like a lot of the skills and things that you guys
teach, to direct that energy and that high testosterone into
aspects of your life that are productive.
Mark, can we talk numbers real quick here?
Yeah. I know that your approach is
taking a a big picture wide lens.
You said, I think 50 or 60 plus markers ideally, which is going
to require a thorough analysis. If somebody has already had
their blood work done and they have some of the simple markers
or if somebody was paying out of pocket for their blood work and
they're like, I can't do a full massive panel.
What are like the top three markers that you would look for?
And then could you share like what you would consider an
acceptable and then ideal range and maybe even just speaking to
free testosterone for that, if that feels like the the one
that's kind of, and I know acknowledging that this isn't
your approach, but also just giving the guys out there
something so they have some kind of an idea.
Yeah. No, I, I appreciate the
question. Since we're talking about
hormones and testosterone, I'll stay in that panel.
So I would definitely do total, total test.
And then I would do, you can do SHBG, which if you have total in
SHBG, you can kind of calculate free, free testosterone's a lot.
A lot of the times it's a calculation as well.
So getting those two and yeah, I would go estradiol as well.
So testosterone, SHBG and estradiol, I think that at least
in the hormone panel for a man, for someone like me, if I see
those three, I can infer a lot and I can give that person like
a decent amount of value to go for it and, and change something
Still limited because I don't have the full picture, but I
yeah, test for, for the game that we're playing.
Like I think it's those 3. Yeah, appreciate you playing the
game. So I heard you say total test.
Would you like if? What about free?
Yeah. So it would be total and then
SHBG and if you have those two you can calculate free.
Oh, OK. Cool.
Yeah, a lot of the times free testosterone is just a
calculation. They take it, you can put it in
on there's like online websites you took, you put the total in,
you took the SHPG and then sometimes albumin.
But usually if you have total in SHPG you can calculate free.
OK, cool. And then what are the what,
what's like an acceptable and then ideal range for it?
And we'll just use the avatar of like a man in his 30s.
Yeah, yeah. So pretty much regardless, I
like my total at least 700 for most men in most most ages.
So 30 for sure, over 700. Like nanograms per.
Yeah, nanograms, Nanograms. That's a little different than
we typically use here in the in Canada, but.
You're in Canada, OK. Yeah, For that it would be,
yeah. Nanomoles per liter.
I think that would be 23 and above.
Yeah, I think that's about right.
Something like that, yeah. And then for like fully
optimized, like ideally after six months, you get someone who
is at like a decent base level to somewhere that you're like,
wow, this, this is like awesome results.
What does that look like? Yeah, again, kind of like case
by case dependent also based on how they feel because like a
person. Yeah.
And this opens a whole nother can of worms.
It's based on how someone feels. And then something called
androgen receptor density. We don't need to get into that.
But that's just like a man can have high testosterone, but his
androgen receptor density is low and he's not going to have as
much fire as someone whose receptor density is a lot more
sensitive. So that's a side conversation.
We don't need to get into that. Any, any guy that like comes to
me below 600 and gets over 800, they they feel that, they
significantly feel that. And that's just from the total.
Then looking into free. Free has a bunch of different
units, but we can use the ones in the 100.
So for for reference, like I after I had my shoulder surgery,
I did my bloods. I was 681 and then my free was 8
and I doubled that. So I got my free from 8 to 16
and that is that was just like a crazy difference.
So that was 681 and then eleven O 4 and then doubled the free.
So like for free over 150, which 15 or 150 for American units,
not sure the Canadian units there, there's two different
ones as well. But yeah, at least 150 or 15.
That's a significant, you feel that significantly.
Yeah, thank you, Mark. And just for listeners, you know
the the good news is you don't have to figure it all out
yourself, right, Mark, 'cause you offer free blood screening,
right? You speaking?
About that, yeah, easiest way is just go on my Instagram, which
will probably be in show notes or whatever.
Mark Holman health, you just DM me the word bloods and I have a
mini chat automation that asks you a few questions.
You pop your blood bloods in, I get notified and I put it in my
spreadsheet and then film a loom and go through it all and just
show like line by line. These are the patterns that I'm
seeing. This is the analysis.
This is what you need to focus on.
And then obviously like on the back end of that, if they want
clear clarity on what exactly to do with the support as well like
opportunity to work together. Yeah, man, we're really just
thanking you for that service. Thank you for for sending out
those analysis to guys for free when Yeah.
Is there any other ways that guys can can you talk a little
bit about your program? I know you have so far in this
conversation, but there any last logistics or anything guys could
know about what it is you do and then and your offerings?
Yeah, talked a bit about the blood work.
So that's like first stage if someone has blood work or
they're just like feeling that fatigue, the lack of energy,
lack of libido, lack of vitality, they're just not, they
don't have their edge anymore. Like those are usually the guys
that tend to reach out and I can really help.
So if listeners are experiencing any of that reach out, first
stage is the blood work. And then I put you through a
protocol which again is based on that really specific precise,
what is your body telling me? What are the goals that you
have? And then I have a community as
well. So we do like men's group calls.
So that's a little bit on the embodiment side of just like
getting in a rooms with men, sharing experiences that you're
struggling with, getting held accountable to maybe have a
conversation that maybe you've been avoiding or stuff like
that. So that's a key piece as well.
And then just the, the coaching aspect as well, like
accountability and making sure I'm giving you everything that
you need to get the result. Literally all you have to do is
execute. And then I make sure that you're
executing with calls, with check insurance, with accountability
systems and stuff like that. So again, like I said earlier,
like if a guy comes into my world, into my program and they
apply themselves, there's literally no possibility to not
change their life, to not get the result that they're looking
for. Yeah.
Yeah, brother, cheers to that. Yeah, we say similar thing at
MSM. We have 100% results with 100%
of the guys who give it 100%. Yeah, exactly.
Awesome, brother. Well, thank you so much for
coming on with us today. And thank you for the work
you're doing in the world, man. Really appreciate you leading
the charge in this. It is so needed for men and
Hawks. Are there any last things you
want to say before we sign off? It was great to meet you Mark.
Appreciate you sharing your time and your expertise and looking
forward to seeing you continue to grow and and serve.
Appreciate it man. All right, guys.
Thanks for tuning in and we'll catch you on the next one.
Peace.