1 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:10,680 All right, welcome everybody to another episode of the Men's 2 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,920 Sexual Mastery Podcast where we are supporting our brothers 3 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,560 awakening, empowering and aligning their sexual energy to 4 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,400 show up as the leaders they came here to be. 5 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,960 Not only in the bedroom, but in life as well. 6 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,720 Here in service to future generations, to future families, 7 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:33,440 to future children who are waiting to be born into the 8 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,200 families where the men have their sexual energy integrated. 9 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,000 The men are fire tenders, as we like to say. 10 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:46,040 They're keepers of the hearth of the intimacy in the relationship 11 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:49,000 and step into that leadership so that the whole house can be 12 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,120 warned. We are leaving behind the old, 13 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,680 outdated program of the honeymoon phase of the belief 14 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,600 that after you have kids, after you've been in a relationship, 15 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,320 after a certain amount of time, the intimacy just fades. 16 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,959 That is no longer the case. And we are here to guide 17 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,560 brothers in this work of stepping into that leadership 18 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:11,120 through these tools and these practices. 19 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:16,960 So with that, I am so excited to dive in today with my brother 20 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:19,080 Ian Hawks. Welcome to the show, brother. 21 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:20,640 Hey. Thanks, Ben. 22 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:25,160 Thanks everybody. We're going to be unpacking some 23 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,600 of your story today. I know last week you brought in 24 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,080 my story, and I have no doubt the listeners are going to 25 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,280 really benefit from hearing about what brought you into this 26 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,920 work and onto this path. So I'd love to kick things off 27 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:44,440 just with the question, what was your earliest sexual memory 28 00:01:44,960 --> 00:01:51,040 growing up? Yeah, I can remember very 29 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,760 clearly where I was in the bedroom, in the house I grew up 30 00:01:54,760 --> 00:02:00,520 in. I had heard from my friends at 31 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:04,800 school about this thing called masturbation and ejaculation. 32 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:09,160 I hadn't experienced it yet. Some guys had talked about wet 33 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:13,160 dreams as well, and I hadn't experienced any of that. 34 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,040 But I was quite curious and I thought I should probably try 35 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:22,400 this out. And I actually found my older 36 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:28,920 brother's stash of porno mags and I was like, OK, here we go. 37 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:34,880 And so I I tried this masturbation thing out and built 38 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,200 arousal and I had an orgasm, but I didn't actually ejaculate. 39 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:42,920 I was a little slower to mature, a little slower to puberty than 40 00:02:42,920 --> 00:02:47,480 my peers. And I had an orgasm, but nothing 41 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:48,840 came out. And I was like, is there 42 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,680 something wrong with me? And I was confused and a little 43 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,400 concerned for a while. And also just this feeling of 44 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,440 like, oh, I'm slow to develop. You know, some of my friends had 45 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,040 already started getting facial hair. 46 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,040 I didn't have any of that. And and so it was kind of a 47 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,160 mixed experience of, OK, this is really pleasure full. 48 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,120 What is this? And also like, is there 49 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:10,640 something wrong with me? Why am I? 50 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,520 Why am I not having this experience that my peers have 51 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,000 talked about? Yeah, that that pattern, that 52 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,760 program of what's wrong with me is is 1. 53 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,080 I know I can relate to, I'm sure a lot of guys. 54 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,160 I imagine that dampened your experience of sexual energy 55 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:28,720 right out the gate, would you say? 56 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,880 Yeah, to a degree. Had me questioning like, am I 57 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,000 doing this right? What's going on? 58 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:41,480 And, you know, there was also I, I mentioned I had taking my my 59 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,600 brother's porn and like, there was also, that was something I 60 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:49,240 did sneakily and without permission or without his 61 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,400 knowing. And there was also this element 62 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:53,000 of like, I'm doing something wrong. 63 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:58,200 There was shame and guilt woven into that as well. 64 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,400 And I could share more about, you know, some other ways that 65 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:06,200 that showed up kind of early on And and I feel had a significant 66 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:10,840 imprinting kind of weaving that sexual arousal experience with 67 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,160 guilt and shame and even like, is this right? 68 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,080 Is this appropriate? Yeah. 69 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,440 Yeah, that that shame, that guilt, that repression. 70 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,080 I know you experienced a lot when you were younger. 71 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:24,520 Yeah. Do you want to speak to any 72 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,400 other experiences you had around that that brought in that? 73 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:35,920 Yeah, I'd say like the the most prominent 1 happened very early 74 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:40,720 on as well. I was outside and I caught a 75 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,560 glimpse of my neighbor through the window. 76 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,480 She was changing and I was completely captivated. 77 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:52,480 It was my first experience seeing a naked woman's body in 78 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:58,600 real life. And I, I had this like, surge of 79 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,560 adrenaline and arousal and shame and guilt, like, I shouldn't be 80 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,120 doing this. I know it's inappropriate, but I 81 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,240 can't stop. It was just so captivating. 82 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:13,720 And. And so there was, yeah, also 83 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:18,000 this, this like real life live experience of like, oh, I'm 84 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:23,080 doing something wrong. And also, holy cow, this is so 85 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:28,200 arousing. This is so, you know, beautiful 86 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,600 and enjoyable on one hand, but also feels so wrong. 87 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:37,600 And yeah. And then later on, I found my 88 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:46,360 dad's porn stash. And then again, I was like using 89 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,600 my dad's porn stash and then feeling like, oh, like, this is 90 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,720 wrong too. And like everyone in my family, 91 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,040 all the men in my family seem to like have this and they're 92 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:57,680 hiding it as well. But no one's talking about it. 93 00:05:58,280 --> 00:06:02,800 And it was all just this like shadow, deep shadow aspect of 94 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:08,520 arousal and sexual energy. And, and no, no, like role model 95 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:15,920 or teacher to show me what's really going on and to, to help 96 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,040 me understand this energy. I was just figuring it out by 97 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:27,320 myself, deeply in the shadows. Yeah, it's incredible how when 98 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,880 sexual energy, when anything stays in the shadows, how it 99 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:36,440 often can revert to pretty low vibrations, you could say, or 100 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:40,520 pretty repressed, shame filled, guilt filled kind of behaviors. 101 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:46,720 Yeah, yeah. I could share a little bit about 102 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,200 my first experience with a woman too, if you like that. 103 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:52,640 Yeah, yeah. I'd love to hear this thread of 104 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:56,120 how that shame, shame and guilt followed you and that repression 105 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,920 and then yeah, how it how it started to surfaced and how you 106 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,680 how you eventually broke through that. 107 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,440 Yeah, breaking through the shame took a long time. 108 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:08,520 We could get to that. It's a little later on in the 109 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:14,440 story, but my this kind of feels like the the final part of 110 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,080 initial sexual experiences actually coming together with a 111 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,960 woman. My first say my second serious, 112 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:27,480 serious girlfriend. I was in grade 9, so that's like 113 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:34,520 12 or 13 years old. And I at this point, several of 114 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:39,120 my friends had had their sexual debut or lost their virginity, 115 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,400 as we tend to say it here, but I prefer the term sexual debut. 116 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,800 And I was with a woman and she had, she had already been with a 117 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,160 partner and, and had sex, but I was a virgin still. 118 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:55,760 And you know, there's like, I also want to mention there's two 119 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,320 sides. There was my individual 120 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,560 experience with sexual energy and pleasuring myself, which was 121 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,000 heavily layered with that shame and guilt. 122 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,240 But there was there's also always been a part of me that 123 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,720 when I am with a woman, there's an immense feeling of rightness 124 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:18,560 to it and and a deep desire to show up in the best way I can 125 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,280 for that partner. And and A and actually a really 126 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:27,720 enthusiastic approach to sex and and sexual energy with a 127 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,680 partner, which also I can get to you later on. 128 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:35,280 There was a lot of unconscious suppression within me of sexual 129 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,320 energy and in relationship, which I think is is an 130 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,880 interesting and important thing to speak to. 131 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,559 But again, that awareness didn't come in till later in life. 132 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:48,520 So coming back to this sexual debut, little 12 year old Ian 133 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,680 with, with my girlfriend at the time and my parents were out. 134 00:08:53,680 --> 00:08:57,480 So we had the house to ourselves and we're like, OK, we're, we're 135 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:58,680 doing it. It's happening. 136 00:08:58,680 --> 00:09:04,080 And she, she started going down on me and very quickly I lost 137 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,280 control and I, I could feel right away I'm like, Oh no, I'm 138 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:09,520 going to come like this is too soon. 139 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:11,880 We haven't even actually had sex yet. 140 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,320 This is just oral sex. And I went to like lift her off 141 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:16,480 because I was like, Oh no. And I also was like, I don't 142 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,040 want to cum in her mouth like that. 143 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,480 That doesn't seem right. I remember there was all this 144 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,480 like, oh, no, this isn't right. And I lifted her off, but it was 145 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,320 too late. And I just came like on myself. 146 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:32,400 And and then I was like, oh, man, like that was my chance. 147 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:36,640 I was about to lose my virginity and I messed it up. 148 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:41,160 And so fortunately, I had the awareness to be like, you know 149 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:42,920 what, let's just give this a little bit of time. 150 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:47,520 Let's go downstairs, watch some TV. 20-30 minutes later we came 151 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:52,240 back upstairs and and actually had the penetrate of sex that I 152 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,400 had been so excited for years to experience. 153 00:09:55,520 --> 00:10:02,680 And it was comically short like same thing just entered and and 154 00:10:02,680 --> 00:10:06,800 very quickly lost control and ejaculated and felt like OK, 155 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,520 well I did it now I can high 5 my Bros. 156 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,280 But if I'm being honest, that didn't really feel like I did 157 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,040 something worth celebrating. I felt like I had let my partner 158 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:22,760 down and and I remember at that point I was like I'm going to I 159 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:24,760 don't want to feel this way. I got to figure out how to 160 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:31,160 please my partners. Yeah, I think that's such a 161 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,360 common experience for pretty much every man. 162 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:39,160 You know, I think coming to that kind of an age, age range, and I 163 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,720 can imagine carrying some of that shame and repression and 164 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,640 you know, some of those patterns within your body too would 165 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,520 contribute to premature ejaculation. 166 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,520 Yet knowing what we know now with a lot of the psychosomatic 167 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:55,120 connection with how long we can last and the tension in our mind 168 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,360 which is expressed in the body. Yeah. 169 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,760 And the, and the pattern by that point I had, you know, by that 170 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,120 point I had experienced an ejaculation and I had been 171 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,640 enthusiastically masturbating, you know, I'm sure every day, 172 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:15,080 multiple times a day, probably up until that first sexual 173 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,600 debut. So my body had already had time 174 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:24,840 to have that pattern of quick masturbation to ejaculation, 175 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:30,160 like programmed into it, in which as you and I know, and as 176 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:35,360 we teach in in the program, it's actually re patterning that sort 177 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:40,560 of typical self pleasure response of building tension to 178 00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:44,960 a release. And so yeah, that took me. 179 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,960 I didn't didn't have that level of awareness at that point. 180 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,120 But yeah, I think that was also contributing. 181 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,520 I'm really curious about, you know, like as as young men, as, 182 00:11:56,560 --> 00:12:03,040 as adolescent boys entering that period of puberty and 1st sexual 183 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:07,200 experiences, how different it could be had we actually had 184 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:13,080 some education and initiation into our sexual energy, into 185 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:17,240 what love making is and can be. And like, maybe it's not 186 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,800 inevitable that as a 12 year old boy, you're only going to last 187 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:25,000 one or two minutes, you know, more 20 seconds. 188 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:30,480 Maybe actually that's that doesn't need to be the case, but 189 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:35,680 without any proper training and initiation around that, I think 190 00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:41,280 it is very often the case. Yeah, yeah. 191 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:46,320 I could imagine that a man or a young man who's just entering 192 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:51,560 his sexual years, having access to all of the tools and the the 193 00:12:51,560 --> 00:12:54,680 guidance and the initiation that you're speaking to, and being 194 00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:59,640 able to move and circulate his sexual energy and not start 195 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,680 piling on all those unconscious programs of addiction to 196 00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:07,240 ejaculation and release and pornography and all the 197 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:12,560 repression and shame and guilt. I can only imagine how much that 198 00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:16,120 could fuel his momentum, you know, as a man. 199 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,160 So, you know, I'm really excited too about, you know, a lot of 200 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,320 our work at men's sexual mastery, It's all with adult men 201 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,960 right now. But in the future, we we do have 202 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,040 the intention of creating programs for young men and 203 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,360 eventually young women, all genders. 204 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:35,440 So yeah, I'll be excited to see that as it unfolds. 205 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:39,000 But to get back to your story, Hawks, I'm curious. 206 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,760 So this just staying with the thread of the shame, the guilt, 207 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,360 the repression that you carried that was programmed at these 208 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,760 young ages. How did that follow you into 209 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,120 adulthood? And and yeah, when did things 210 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,600 start to shift for you? Were you really opened up to 211 00:13:54,600 --> 00:14:00,960 this path? Yeah, that as I was mentioning 212 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,440 before, that shame and guilt and shadow aspect of sexual energy 213 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:09,600 was ever present in my life, just in the background, whether 214 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:16,520 I was in a relationship or not. Using porn, having these sexual 215 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:21,960 experiences with myself that carried some element of shame, 216 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,440 you know, really chronic porn use for so many years. 217 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:33,200 And like I said, often times, whether I was in a relationship 218 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:35,440 or not, there were periods I can remember. 219 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,000 Often it would be at the, at the beginning stages of a 220 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,760 relationship where I'd be like, no, like I don't, I don't want 221 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:42,680 or need this at all. I'm so in love. 222 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:48,200 I'm so attracted to this woman. Like using porn feels like 223 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,040 cheating. I'm not going to do that. 224 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:55,640 And then eventually there would come a point in the relationship 225 00:14:55,640 --> 00:15:00,760 where that novelty wears off or my own self-control is 226 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,400 diminished at some point. And then I would often come back 227 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,880 to it. And then it would be feel even 228 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,040 more wrong because I'm I'm now in a relationship. 229 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:17,440 And so there was there was that. And then actually in 230 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,200 relationships, it took me a long time to understand how much of 231 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:25,240 my own sexual expression and relationship to sexual energy as 232 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:29,400 a whole was being suppressed and repressed. 233 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:34,800 And yeah, I could share a bit about a particular partner that 234 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,840 I had that really helped me in understanding and bringing 235 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,880 consciousness to that, to that element of me that was so 236 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:44,560 repressed and still in the shadow. 237 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,200 Yeah, yeah, go into it bro, Feel free. 238 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:55,080 Yeah. So my previous partner the the 239 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,400 woman that I was in a long term committed relationship with 240 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:04,880 before my current partner, she was an amazing woman, really 241 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:12,520 like such a big beautiful open heart and so open in her 242 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:16,200 expression, in her authentic expression in all ways. 243 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:22,240 And sexual energy was one of those ways that she was free. 244 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:27,560 From my perspective. Looking back at it now, I 245 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:31,480 actually see her expression as being so beautiful and free. 246 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,680 And looking back at myself, I realized how much of my own 247 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:40,480 heart was guarded and closed off and how much of my own sexual 248 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,600 energy and expression was guarded and closed off. 249 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,960 And, and I, I'm sure that a huge part of that is because of the 250 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,800 guilt and shame that I associated with sexual energy. 251 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:56,040 And so when that, when I felt that energy arise, it would 252 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,120 often be met with this is inappropriate or this isn't 253 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:05,000 right. And so that partner, that 254 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:11,839 relationship created a lot of a lot of challenges for me, a lot 255 00:17:11,839 --> 00:17:17,359 of inner turmoil when I would observe my partner being 256 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:21,520 expressed in in ways that I was not capable to at that point. 257 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,319 So even when it comes to the open heart, she would tell her 258 00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:29,240 friends, boy, guys and girls like that she loves them just 259 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,720 leaving, you know, like how, how I do now because I've learned to 260 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,080 open my heart in that way. But to be able to have platonic 261 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,040 love and just share like, I love you. 262 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:41,680 OK, see you later. And that, that created a lot of 263 00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:44,760 anguish in me because I was like, oh, but that's these, 264 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:48,320 these sacred 3 words that are only meant for our, for our one 265 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,120 chosen lover. And I, it, it was, it's comical 266 00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:54,760 for me now to look back at how much that disturbed me. 267 00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:00,960 And, and then other experiences like she would, she would like 268 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,480 not wear a bra or wear a thong bikini at the beach. 269 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,280 And it was really difficult for me. 270 00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:12,360 And I would actually, I remember some really uncomfortable 271 00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:17,400 conversations that I, I would essentially be asking her not to 272 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,600 wear those things or not to go out in public in those ways, 273 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:26,640 which I can look back at now. I'm just like, man, that's not 274 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,960 the vibe that I want to bring into relationship and into the 275 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,400 world and into myself. But I was operating at the level 276 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,120 of consciousness that was available to me at that time. 277 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,480 And, and it was a lot of, you know, shaming her. 278 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,040 I realized I like, projected my own shame onto her. 279 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,880 And I've since then had many deep conversations with her and 280 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:51,400 actually understood just how deeply that impacted her and how 281 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:56,040 much that hurt her and how actually, like traumatic those 282 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:00,880 experiences were for her. And it's been a big reconciling, 283 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:06,000 you know, in that relationship and in myself with the awareness 284 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:13,040 of how much pain I caused without realizing it at the time 285 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,520 and how much of my own experience I was projecting on 286 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:29,240 the world around me. Yeah, it's amazing how these 287 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,400 patterns that come at such a young age, this the shame, the 288 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:38,200 repression, the guilt can managed to find its way in these 289 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,640 shadowy behaviors and relationship. 290 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,720 And and that projection is so real, you know, like we're our 291 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,560 partners are mirror, as we say all the time in this work. 292 00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:52,080 And I could see how that, you know, on the surface what might 293 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,880 come across as like insecurity was like you're not being 294 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,880 comfortable with her dressing a certain way, but like underneath 295 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:03,640 it, it's actually the outlet of that shame of the trigger. 296 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,960 That sexual energy should be hidden and kept in the shadow, 297 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,640 like, and how that was, yeah, projected under her. 298 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,960 That that tracks. That really makes sense. 299 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:21,840 It was, it was truly my own lack of containment that that led me 300 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,560 to feel like what she was doing was wrong. 301 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,800 Because I was seeing the world through my own eyes where I'm 302 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:32,640 like, I see that as some kind of a, a sexual act. 303 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:37,640 Because if I at that point in my life, when I observed that in 304 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:43,360 another woman, it awakened this uncontained sexual urge within 305 00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:44,720 me. And I was like, why would you 306 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:49,880 want to go around the world, you know, igniting that in people. 307 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,800 And now I can look back and see like, oh, that was like my own 308 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,640 lack of containment again, projecting my own experience on 309 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,080 the world. And now I, I look at those types 310 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:05,440 of, you know, I, I look at that type, that way of being in the 311 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,040 world is actually being so beautiful. 312 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,760 When I see a woman in that energy now I'm like, wow, thank 313 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,400 you for like sharing this with the world. 314 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:18,440 This is beautiful. And I don't need to, I have 315 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:22,120 containment within myself where I can smile and breathe into 316 00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:24,000 that. And it's not overwhelming me. 317 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,560 It's just adding more beauty to the world. 318 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,760 And and I can just feel into like, if this is what if this 319 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,160 person feels comfortable and expressed in this way, then 320 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,960 power to you. It's not about, you know, it's 321 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:45,400 not not making it about myself and my own, my own shit, you 322 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,640 know? Or compulsions, right? 323 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,760 Like being able to pull that energy up and sublimate it and 324 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,400 pull it into the heart and transmute it into a generative 325 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,200 energy that's actually, you feel like you got a little pick me 326 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,040 up, you know, and continue on with your day rather than 327 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,920 compulsively needing to release this energy because you don't 328 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,800 know how to contain it, how to hold it like you're sharing. 329 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,640 So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 330 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:16,680 Which this, that ability to breathe that energy up to allow 331 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:21,280 it to be generative and not leading to some compulsive 332 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:26,400 behavior is, I think, more important now than ever when we 333 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:31,320 live in a world where sexual energy and imagery is 334 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:37,440 everywhere. And without that level of 335 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,440 containment within ourselves, without that ability to 336 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,960 sublimate that energy as you're speaking to, it's just, I can't 337 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,840 imagine, you know, how difficult it must be for young men, 338 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,520 especially to like move through the world right now. 339 00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:57,280 And that's a big part of, you know, I know for both of us, a 340 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:02,680 big part of what we are here to to share and to bring in is, is 341 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,800 the ability to stay grounded within ourselves while we move 342 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,600 through the world, no matter what the stimulus is around us. 343 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,560 And and it's actually not that complicated. 344 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,720 It does take does take training and and commitment and 345 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,200 consistency, but it completely shifts. 346 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,440 It's just learning a new skill that completely shifts how we 347 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,280 interact with the world around us, and it's so empowering. 348 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,200 Amen, brother. Yeah, I'd love to switch gears a 349 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:37,360 little bit and hear a little bit of your journey around semen 350 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:39,920 retention and how you first stumbled across it. 351 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,760 If I remember correctly, you went on a pretty long streak, 352 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,760 which I'd love for you to share and and then had an experience 353 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,920 coming out of that and some of the dangers perhaps or 354 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,040 misunderstandings, misconceptions about semen 355 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,040 retention. And then yeah, I'd love to hear 356 00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:00,120 just your little more around your awakening with these 357 00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:03,840 practices and with these tools and and sexual transmutation. 358 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:10,280 Yeah, that's, it's a great place to move to now because it was a 359 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:15,360 little after that relationship that I was just speaking to came 360 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:21,080 to a, a completion and I was, that's when my healing journey 361 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:26,720 really started. I, I learned, I started 362 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,400 listening to podcasts right around that time and I learned 363 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:35,200 about this therapeutic approach to psychedelic medicines to, to 364 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,960 mushrooms specifically. And I'd had a lot of 365 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,120 recreational experience with mushrooms at that point in my 366 00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:44,320 life. But this idea of of a 367 00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:49,920 therapeutic experience was something that really, it 368 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,880 ignited something in me. And I was very shortly after 369 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,200 that relationship ended. I was, you know, in the journey 370 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,440 of discovering who I am again, the death and rebirth process 371 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,720 that comes at the completion of, of a long relationship like 372 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,440 that. And I decided, all right, I'm 373 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:13,120 going to try this 5 grams of dried mushrooms blindfolded in a 374 00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:16,840 room and, and approach it in a therapeutic way. 375 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,240 And I had a playlist that was curated by Johns Hopkins 376 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:25,560 University for specifically for psychedelic therapy. 377 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:33,520 And I went deep and I had an incredibly profound experience 378 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,800 of actually experiencing myself dying. 379 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,920 I really thought I was dying during the come up of the 380 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,000 mushrooms. I fully thought I was dying. 381 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,640 And I went through that process. And then I was in this liminal 382 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:51,000 space and eventually was reborn. And I won't go too much into 383 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,720 that, but the probably the biggest, most profound take away 384 00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:00,280 for me from that journey was the awakening of my heart, the 385 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,640 understanding I got to reflect on. 386 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,960 I was shown so many ways that in that previous relationship, I 387 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,600 had actually just been operating from a place of repression and 388 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:14,840 suppression and shame and, and I understood what love was in a 389 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,800 new way. And it sounds kind of cheesy, 390 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:24,680 but but that was definitely the breaking point for me, like into 391 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:32,120 this new level of consciousness. And there's, you know, to Fast 392 00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:35,120 forward from there. There was a point along that 393 00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:36,960 healing journey where I realized, you know what? 394 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:41,760 This current approach to sexual energy isn't working for me. 395 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:47,800 I no longer want to be in this pattern of looking at porn, 396 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,680 masturbating and ejaculating all the time. 397 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,280 This doesn't feel right. I don't, it doesn't fill me with 398 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,320 a high vibrational experience afterwards. 399 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,480 And I just decided one day that you know what I'm done with 400 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:05,120 this. And I was about to leave for a 401 00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:08,800 tree planting season. So Ben, you know, and, and 402 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,480 anyone who knows me knows that I was a tree planter here in BC, 403 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,320 in Canada for a long time, 12 years. 404 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,960 And tree planting is a really grueling physical labor job 405 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,440 where you're out in remote places for months at a time, and 406 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,520 you're planting thousands of little seedlings in areas where 407 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,160 the forest has been cut for the logging industry in Canada. 408 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,720 And it's a really interesting opportunity to have deep, solo 409 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:40,640 meditative time by yourself in nature while also working really 410 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,800 effing hard. And you actually paid per tree 411 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,000 that you plant. So the faster you work, the 412 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,000 harder you work, the more money you can earn. 413 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,640 And I became, I became quite good at that. 414 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,120 And I would spend, you know, about half my year planting 415 00:27:56,120 --> 00:28:00,960 trees. And the, the season that I went 416 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,120 into it where I decided I'm not looking at porn, I'm not 417 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:11,280 masturbating anymore, was the most insanely productive season 418 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,840 of my life. I had already reached a kind of 419 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,560 a plateau at that point in my career. 420 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:22,600 And all of a sudden I just blew past that plateau and I had 421 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,560 focus and drive and energy that I had never experienced before. 422 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,840 And so I went on for many months. 423 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:34,320 It was, you know, probably around 8 months of abstinence. 424 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,040 And that worked really well for me at the time. 425 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:46,080 And it brought an awareness and a lived experience for me that 426 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,280 like, oh, there's, there's something here. 427 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:55,040 This whole abstaining from ejaculation and porn is like 428 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,680 really powerful as fuel for me as a man moving through the 429 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:04,880 world in my mission and purpose. And that felt really empowering. 430 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,880 And it lit me up. And so I kept going. 431 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:12,680 And then I met a woman that I was like, oh, I really want to, 432 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:14,840 I want to be in relationship with this woman. 433 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:22,320 And I pursued her and we started dating, and then we got to our 434 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,960 first experience with sex. Really quick, how many months 435 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,240 into semen retention, no ejaculation were you at this 436 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:30,800 point? More or less. 437 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:35,160 It's more or less 7-8 months and I will say with the caveat being 438 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,920 that I did have the occasional wet dream during that time. 439 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,400 But yeah, just for context for guys knowing, you know, how long 440 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,040 this recharge had been going on. Yeah. 441 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,800 And. Not just a recharge, but a 442 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:55,240 complete like abstinence from touching myself or sex with 443 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,360 another person. Essentially, my I had just been 444 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,680 ignoring my genitals and my sexual energy for that whole 445 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,520 time. And just funneling it all into 446 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,920 tree planting, making money, breaking records. 447 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:08,560 And you were like the number one. 448 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,480 I mean, you were doing things you were planting at a rate that 449 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,600 nobody even in your circles of planting had seen, right? 450 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,400 Well, I mean, there were. It was definitely the like in 451 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,920 the top tier. I did end up finishing that 452 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,720 season higher production than any other than anyone else in 453 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,120 the camp of maybe 80 to 100 planters. 454 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,480 There were other people that that were like at that level and 455 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,320 we'd kind of go back and forth. One day I plant more, another 456 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,480 day they plant more. But over the course of the 457 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,680 entire season, because I never missed a single day and because 458 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,560 I was showing up with that level of intensity and production 459 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,440 every single day, when you add up the tallies over the course 460 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:55,360 of the entire season, I, I came out on top and secret weapon. 461 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:02,360 It was, it was a secret weapon. And so then, yeah, to Fast 462 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,000 forward to now, I'm like, OK, I'm in a position where I want 463 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,000 to be in a sexual relationship again. 464 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,480 And I was excited for that. I felt like this is right. 465 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,160 But also I was nervous because I was like, I haven't even, I 466 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,520 haven't done anything with my cock in so long. 467 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:24,880 And sure enough, we we came together and I really struggled 468 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,480 to show up in the bedroom in the ways that I would like to. 469 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,080 I was having like less consistent erections. 470 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:33,760 That kind of just happened the first time. 471 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:38,480 And then I think it got in my head a lot and and I wasn't 472 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,880 lasting as long as I'd like. And I essentially just wasn't 473 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,280 showing up and pleasing this woman who I cared about a lot at 474 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,240 the time. And it it plagued me and that 475 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,240 relationship didn't pan out. Not surprising, you know, for me 476 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,800 because I was like it that, that ability, that inability to show 477 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:02,840 up sexually with with her just absolutely like tore down the 478 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:07,120 confidence that I have for myself in that relationship. 479 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,680 And so I know that it bled into every other aspect of our 480 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,840 relationship because I in the, in my, in the forefront of my 481 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,600 mind, every time I saw her, I was like, I'm not showing up 482 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,000 sexually. And, and so that relationship 483 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,320 didn't pan out. And then I was. 484 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,640 Like can I pause here for Hawks and just just to highlight this, 485 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:32,280 like this is the shadow of the semen retention, just like no 486 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,680 fat movement that a lot of people don't talk about. 487 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,400 And that's why we use the word semen intention and not semen 488 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,560 retention, because what Hawks is describing can be a common 489 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,440 experience for guys who figure out that holy shit, this is 490 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,240 rocket fuel for my business, for my workouts, for my growth, you 491 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,080 know, and MMA fighting and boxing, like they've known this 492 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,520 for decades, you know, but the shadow of it a lot of people 493 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,720 don't talk about is that you can actually get atrophied sexually, 494 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,320 which is the experience Hawks is, is speaking to. 495 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,160 And and that's why in our, a lot of our work, we're here to help 496 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,760 educate guys so you don't swing too far in the pendulum in any 497 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,880 One Direction. But yeah, Hawks and wanted to 498 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:13,640 hand it back to you. Just wanted to mention that 499 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,360 though, for people listening in like this, atrophy is real. 500 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,640 It can happen. If you go all in on semen 501 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,520 retention, you got to be mindful of it. 502 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:23,560 If you don't use it, you lose it. 503 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:29,760 Yeah. That that, you know, Cliche kept 504 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:35,160 repeating in my mind every time I would have this failed sexual 505 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,840 experience. Failed from my perspective, a 506 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:40,920 sexual experience. I was like, if you don't use it, 507 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,040 you lose it. I haven't been using it for a 508 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,360 really long time. I think I might have lost it. 509 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:48,280 I was. Like. 510 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,920 This is not, this is not OK with me. 511 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,320 You know, I'm I'm a sexual being. 512 00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:02,960 I desire to have a robust sex life and I don't want or need to 513 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:07,920 change that. And so there was this awareness 514 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,880 at that point that the approach that I've been taking for the 515 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:17,840 last eight months worked in a lot of ways, but also did not 516 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:22,000 work for me in this one really important way. 517 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:26,920 So back to the drawing board. That's, that's not the way. 518 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:32,560 And you know, that was I, I went on that journey before Nofap or 519 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,120 semen retention was in my field at all. 520 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:37,600 Like I hadn't learned about that. 521 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,639 This was just something I was like, I'm just going to try this 522 00:34:39,639 --> 00:34:41,159 out. It was really just this feeling 523 00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:44,320 of like porn doesn't seem to be right for me. 524 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,040 Let's put that away and everything that comes with it. 525 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:54,480 And so I was after that, you know, short lived relationship, 526 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,880 I was like, OK, so now I'm single again. 527 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:02,040 What, How am I going to be in right relation with my sexual 528 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:07,000 energy and with my genitals? And I was, I was really just 529 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,120 unsure for a while. And then all of a sudden, Montag 530 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:15,800 Chia came into my field. I listened to a podcast and 531 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,760 Montag Chia was the guest. And he was sharing this ancient 532 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:24,280 wisdom, the Taoist approach to being in harmony with our sexual 533 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:25,800 energy. And he was talking about 534 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:31,800 harmonious ejaculation periods for men based on age. 535 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:36,200 And I was like, oh, of course, that makes so much sense. 536 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:40,640 And everything he was sharing just like landed for me as as 537 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:45,800 truth and as like the, the wisdom and then the teachings 538 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,640 that I had been searching for my whole life. 539 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,640 And then all of a sudden it was there And that door opened up. 540 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:55,200 And, and after I explored into Montague Chia, I learned about 541 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,120 all of these other teachers and I started taking trainings and 542 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,840 reading all the books. And that was like the rabbit 543 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,360 hole presented itself and I just dove right in. 544 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:07,560 And I was like, I've been looking for this my whole life. 545 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:13,280 And that's when I really, that's when I really started to awaken 546 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,560 to sexual energy in a new way, in a harmonious way. 547 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:24,680 And yeah, that's that kind of brings us up until that point in 548 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,760 the journey. Yeah, Yeah. 549 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,520 I wanted to also bring in here just another aspect. 550 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,480 I know you've mentioned to me a pattern that you had for a long 551 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,520 time was seeking validation through women and notches on the 552 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:39,880 belt. Could you speak a little bit 553 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:41,880 about how that shifted for you as well? 554 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,120 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. 555 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:52,520 So that's another shadow aspect of my relationship to sexuality 556 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,760 that was present in my life for a very long time. 557 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:02,360 And it was this feeling of insecurity, just general 558 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,080 insecurity. And myself, whether it was from, 559 00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:10,960 you know, acne that I had or from a feeling of, you know, I'm 560 00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:16,600 too skinny or that piece around actually not really feeling 561 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,040 fully capable to please a woman the way that I would like to and 562 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:21,880 the way that I felt was possible. 563 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:29,840 All of those pieces layered into this general sense of 564 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,360 insecurity. And I would seek security by 565 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,640 being with a woman. If I could have the validation 566 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,680 of sleeping with a woman, it felt like, OK, I can relax for a 567 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:42,720 minute. I'm worthy. 568 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:50,880 And that just manifested as like conquest, the notches in the 569 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:56,920 belt as you as you speak to just always seeking that next one 570 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:03,200 night stand or like friends with benefits or you know, I had also 571 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:08,280 many relationships that were sexual in their nature, but more 572 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:13,200 than a one night stand, but not the depth of connection and and 573 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,440 commitment that I'm now interested in. 574 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,160 But it was always like, as long as I could be somewhat 575 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:24,240 consistently sleeping with a woman, I felt like OK with 576 00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:26,560 myself. But if I'm being honest, it was 577 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,240 still like the next day after sleeping with a woman, I'd be 578 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,600 back, you know, essentially. Or a few days later, I'd be back 579 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:40,200 to that same just general sense of insecurity, not being whole 580 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,520 in myself on my own. And I just didn't understand 581 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:48,160 that that was actually that void was for me to fill, not for 582 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,400 someone else to fill. But I was seeking outside of 583 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:54,880 myself. Yeah. 584 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,400 And I'm curious to hear a little bit about, you know, coming into 585 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,880 the relationship you're in now, which has been about five years, 586 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:03,840 if I'm correct. Is that right? 587 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:08,000 And what has shifted, What's your experience been like to 588 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:13,400 choose one woman with that ability, that capacity to 589 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,600 continue just being in your conquest? 590 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,480 What made you choose commitment? And what's that been like for 591 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,440 you in the past five years since doing that? 592 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:30,480 Well, what it's been like is the most robust feeling of 593 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:40,920 well-being I've ever experienced and peace the this relationship 594 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:45,920 that I'm in came. You know, I became available for 595 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:51,840 this kind of relationship shortly after learning and 596 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,920 understanding these new ways of relating with sexual energy that 597 00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:04,080 I was speaking to and opening up to a new way of relating with my 598 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:09,600 heart and with sexual energy. And I met my current partner, 599 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,960 Aspen. And we, I, I was attracted to 600 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,120 her and drawn to her right away. I asked her out right away and 601 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,800 she said thank you. But I'm, you know, not ready for 602 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,440 that right now. Let's just be friends. 603 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,960 And I was like, yeah, I'm OK with that. 604 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,680 Because I had already at that point developed a level of 605 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,320 confidence and security in myself because I'd started to 606 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,960 work with these practices and I was more harmonious with my 607 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:40,280 sexual energy and, and quite confident in myself. 608 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:44,000 And over the period of time before we actually joined 609 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,560 together in an intimate relationship, we had a lot of 610 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:50,400 open conversations about sexual energy, different ways of 611 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:56,320 relating, just unconventional ways of approaching the subject 612 00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:00,160 of sex and sexuality. So we had already established a 613 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,680 baseline of like, oh, we're both really interested in this topic 614 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:11,840 and we eventually felt right for us to, to go on an official 615 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,320 date. And by that point there had 616 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,880 already been a strong foundation laid in our relating. 617 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:23,640 And, and once we actually came together intimately, it was 618 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:28,440 quite profound and was like, there was an awareness that, oh, 619 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,200 this could be something very serious. 620 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:38,800 And so I would say like I was required to get to into a place 621 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:43,600 of right relation with my own sexual energy before I actually 622 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:47,360 became available for the type of relationship that I now get to 623 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,680 enjoy. And really being at a place in 624 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:55,080 my life where I was ready to say, yes, I'm 100% all in. 625 00:41:55,400 --> 00:42:00,000 I'm fully committed to you. This is all like this. 626 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:07,000 I'm yours, you know, like I give myself fully to this 627 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,800 relationship and I'm not looking outside of it in any way because 628 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:16,320 the the level of connection that became available because I had 629 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:19,160 reached this level in my own sexual journey and my partner 630 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:24,120 had been doing a lot of work in that realm with herself as well. 631 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,680 That when we eventually came together, it was something 632 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,320 different than I had experienced before. 633 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:34,120 And there was an awareness that this could go as deep as we 634 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,080 allow it to go and as wide as we allow it to go. 635 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:44,360 And this is there is everything that I need or that's important 636 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:48,040 to me in relating and in sexuality, that all of that is 637 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:51,040 available to me in this relationship if I give, if I 638 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,640 continue to give myself fully to it and continue to show up 639 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,320 fully. And that opened up like I was 640 00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,160 speaking to this, this sense of well-being and peace because I 641 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,080 no longer had to look outside of myself or outside of 642 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,080 relationship. It was all in here and myself. 643 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:11,680 And it was all in the union that that I chose and continue to 644 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,280 choose again and again to be in with my partner. 645 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:19,440 And yeah, that sense of security that comes from me, like I 646 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:24,920 don't, I don't need anything outside of this is like a huge 647 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:31,560 relaxation and allows for so much more focus to be put 648 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:36,560 towards all the other aspects of life that are, that are deeply 649 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,960 important to me as well. Yeah, and I'm loving that you're 650 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:45,280 speaking to that inside out game, that ability to get right 651 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:49,640 within yourself. And it would totally make sense 652 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:53,640 that until you do that, you know you're not going to have your 653 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,440 perfect partner show up. You're going to continue to get 654 00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,720 the reflections from the world around you and from your 655 00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:03,280 partners of who you are being of how you're showing up. 656 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,880 And we talk about this all the time in our community and with 657 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,040 the men we serve, men who are single. 658 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:13,880 And we we future pace them into that future present self and 659 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:18,600 continuing to trust that inside out game that the more you show 660 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,920 up in right relation with yourself, actually, and the 661 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,200 fully able to contain your energy that is magnetizing your 662 00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,200 ideal partner. And until you're doing that, 663 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:32,680 you're going to continue to attract drama and things will 664 00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,640 continue to expose to you where you're out of integrity with 665 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:39,200 yourself ultimately. So I love hearing that journey 666 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,120 for you. And I also love hearing just the 667 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,160 like I'm really feeling the quality over quantity piece. 668 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,960 And I know so much of that extra energy that is no longer spent 669 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,840 seeking. You know, I'm constantly on the 670 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,080 chase for something that, you know, grass is greener thing. 671 00:44:55,920 --> 00:45:01,080 When that's brought into not just the, the ability for you to 672 00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,480 focus and life on all these other things, but into the 673 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:08,160 relationship and all that energy for, for the thousands of women 674 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,600 you can be with to be all directed into one. 675 00:45:11,240 --> 00:45:14,280 I know in my experience too, in committed partnership right now, 676 00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:18,880 it's like I get to experience the thousand faces of my woman, 677 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,640 you know, and all the different versions of her. 678 00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,200 Sometimes when we're making love, it's like, I'm like, just 679 00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,800 shocked by how beautiful she is and the different facets of her. 680 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,960 And the deeper I go into that devotional act of that committed 681 00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:36,720 relationship, that depth, just mining deeper and deeper and 682 00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:39,960 deeper with one person, it actually brings so much more 683 00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,880 than I could ever get with sleeping with thousands of 684 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,280 women. So it's something I deeply 685 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,040 resonate with. And yeah, I'm curious, do you 686 00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,320 have any other thoughts around that for men who are are seeking 687 00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:57,320 or are in partnership? Yeah, I just like exactly what 688 00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:02,160 you said. Until we learn to appreciate the 689 00:46:02,240 --> 00:46:11,920 all in the one, we won't ever be satisfied seeking, you know, the 690 00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:16,720 all. It's that ability to to 691 00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:20,240 recognize and understand and approach like the partner that 692 00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:25,080 that we choose, that we get to, to be in this sacred union with 693 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:30,120 is representative of all women everywhere. 694 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:37,320 Any aspect of the feminine that you might, you know, admire or 695 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:41,680 appreciate or desire in someone else. 696 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:46,440 There is a way to tap into that within this one because the all 697 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:50,200 is expressed in the one you know, the the ocean is in a drop 698 00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:54,160 of water. And it's our ability to tap into 699 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:59,280 that that creates that level of peace and satiation and and 700 00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:04,880 well-being that if we don't learn, until we learn to truly 701 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,760 do that, it doesn't matter like you're saying, how many other 702 00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,040 women we sleep with, because it will always feel like there's 703 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:16,120 something missing because we're not able to understand that the 704 00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:21,720 all is in the one. And so, yeah, that's definitely 705 00:47:21,720 --> 00:47:26,320 been my experience as well. You know, when I, I often think 706 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:33,400 of that the, the many faces and aspects of of my partner in 707 00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:39,800 long, like prolonged eye gazing practices that comes through so, 708 00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:44,640 so strongly for me. Like her face will shift in age 709 00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:50,080 and shape and ethnicity even in like there's so many different 710 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:55,320 faces that I've seen in just gazing into her eyes and 711 00:47:55,400 --> 00:48:00,320 experiences like that, you know, can can really help me to like 712 00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:05,440 experientially understand like, Oh, the all is in the 1 here. 713 00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:12,760 And, and like you were saying as well, the more, the more variety 714 00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:17,200 that we can bring into our, our one, you know, our, our union. 715 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:22,080 There's, there's so many different aspects of our partner 716 00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:26,040 and of the intimate relationship between two people that we can 717 00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,480 experience throughout a lifetime where that, you know, that 718 00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:36,600 novelty piece is accessible in one partnership as well. 719 00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:40,880 It's, it's a different aspect of novelty, but it's, it's there if 720 00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:46,280 we, if we choose to, to really show up for it and to put the, 721 00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:50,120 you know, the energy into it that's required to continue to 722 00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:54,960 evolve that that relationship and not just rinse and repeat 723 00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:59,480 the same, you know, sex position and approach that works. 724 00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,680 You know, this works for both people. 725 00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:05,560 So let's just keep doing that. Well, eventually, you know, it's 726 00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:10,040 going to lose some of its, some of its flair. 727 00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:13,560 So yeah, that's what comes up around that. 728 00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:19,400 And that's exactly why the Brotherhood is here, why we had 729 00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,840 men's sexual master providing that support for brothers to 730 00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:27,640 expand that toolkit to come into greater coherence within 731 00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,480 themselves, right relation with their own sexual energy. 732 00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:33,480 Get off of porn. Release the shame, release the 733 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:38,080 guilt, release the repression. Have an open space to process 734 00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:42,200 and update our software essentially so that we can show 735 00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,880 up in these ways in an ever deepening relationship. 736 00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:50,480 So I know Hawks, our time is is coming up here pretty soon. 737 00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:52,320 I had one other question for you. 738 00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,280 I wanted to hear a little bit about your background in men's 739 00:49:56,280 --> 00:50:00,120 work and what drew you into men's work and how you feel. 740 00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:06,080 Specifically, men's work ties into this practice of sexual 741 00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:16,240 transmutation. The men's work ties into this, 742 00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,640 you know, as you were just speaking about the brotherhood 743 00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:23,720 and, and what we, how we serve and what we provide in that 744 00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:29,160 container is that element of brotherhood to me brings in the, 745 00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:34,520 the community, the shared aspect of, of learning and growing 746 00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:41,920 together and the the part of like initiation where it's not, 747 00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:46,040 we're not just doing this on our own, taking some, you know, 748 00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:48,160 self-paced online course trying to learn about it. 749 00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:52,320 It's like we're going through this process as a group and 750 00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:57,320 people are different things are like awakening in different 751 00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:01,280 people and we're going through this group initiation. 752 00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:07,200 That to me is, is a really important aspect of creating a 753 00:51:07,240 --> 00:51:10,520 like a demarcation between this was the old way of relating to 754 00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:12,760 sexual energy. And like this is the new way. 755 00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,160 And I'm not just doing this on my own. 756 00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:18,600 It's like there's a group that's got my back and like, we're 757 00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:23,600 going through this together. And so that's a little, a little 758 00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:30,360 snippet on where I feel men's work has such a crucial, it is 759 00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,040 such a crucial ingredient in the process. 760 00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:39,960 And As for my, As for my, you know, discovery, I would say of 761 00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:45,760 men's work, it really came through a deep, deep wound in my 762 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:53,160 life. I had been on this journey of, 763 00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,400 OK, I'm, parts of me are awakening. 764 00:51:56,400 --> 00:52:00,320 I'm, I'm learning new skills. I started working with, you 765 00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:05,320 know, different trainings like breath work and, and serving in 766 00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:11,240 plant medicine spaces, being really exposed to different 767 00:52:11,240 --> 00:52:15,360 modalities of, of healing work or of, you know, like 768 00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:19,200 connection. I would really refer to it as 769 00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:21,960 connection with deeper parts of ourselves and community, 770 00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,600 connecting with community and in different ways. 771 00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:32,600 And around that time, my, my best friend, like my soul 772 00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:39,800 brother was going through a really dark night of his soul 773 00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:44,120 and he, he was struggling with addiction and he ended up 774 00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:50,600 overdosing and he died. And that was in 2021. 775 00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:54,560 And that completely rocked my world. 776 00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:58,680 I had never known a grief like that before in my life. 777 00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:03,760 And there was a lot of guilt and shame associated with that as 778 00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,840 well because he was, he was my best friend and I felt like I 779 00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:10,280 had let him down. I don't look at it that way 780 00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:15,880 anymore, but there was a really deep wound there of my own sense 781 00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:22,280 of not being enough and and this deep loss of such an amazing 782 00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:26,960 person in my life and in the lives of everyone who knew him. 783 00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:34,560 It was a huge, huge loss. And right around that time, 784 00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:40,600 somebody in my community turned me on to Sacred Sons. 785 00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,640 They're like, hey, you should listen to this podcast and I 786 00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:46,360 didn't even know what men's work was up until that point. 787 00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:51,040 And I started listening to the sacred sons podcast and I was 788 00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:53,960 like, oh, there's something here, like there's a place for 789 00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:58,080 men to go and it just felt so right. 790 00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:01,720 And I was I just went on. I was like, how can I get 791 00:54:01,720 --> 00:54:03,920 involved in this? This is it would felt. 792 00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:06,640 It was so clear to me like this is the guidance. 793 00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:12,000 I can't bring Matt back, but there was this deep knowing in 794 00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:17,080 me that this is a place, these this men's workspace is a place 795 00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:22,080 where I can go and discover something in and for myself. 796 00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:26,280 And also I felt really called to be of service in that world in 797 00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:28,800 some way. I was like, if I can, if I can 798 00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:37,760 find a way to support other men, I can, I can integrate this this 799 00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:42,440 loss in a way that will be like positive and impactful for the 800 00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:48,480 world. And so, yeah, I went to 1st in 801 00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:54,160 person Sacred Sons event and experienced what felt very 802 00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:58,120 psychedelic for me without any substances involved. 803 00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:03,000 Just the level of shadow work, the level of acknowledgement of 804 00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:07,320 the parts of ourselves that had been in the shadows for so long 805 00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,240 and the connection and brotherhood that was different 806 00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:12,560 than anything I had really experienced before. 807 00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:18,200 Felt to me like, yeah, this is this is the way, this is the, 808 00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:22,320 this is a missing ingredient. And this would have been so 809 00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:24,520 helpful for Matt. This is helpful for me. 810 00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:28,440 And this is what so many men out there are ready for and looking 811 00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:32,600 for. And so I went all in and just 812 00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:37,200 devoted myself to doing whatever I could to bring more 813 00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:41,000 opportunities for men to gather in those ways into the world and 814 00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:44,200 went into the leadership training with the Sons and 815 00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:49,080 started a men's circle in my own community and have been growing 816 00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:53,680 and evolving and deepening in my capacity to be of service in in 817 00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:56,480 those ways. And all of it, you know, it's 818 00:55:56,480 --> 00:56:00,600 still like always at the root. And the core of that is, is in 819 00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:02,520 honor of my brother, Matt Hewson. 820 00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:14,840 And I'm like, I'm profoundly grateful to have been shown this 821 00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:18,120 world. And I know it was through Matt's 822 00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:23,920 passing really feels like he guided me into this work and 823 00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:29,720 the, the connections that I've made and, and the impact that 824 00:56:29,720 --> 00:56:32,480 it's had on my life and that I've been able to have on other 825 00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:37,000 men's lives through that discovery of this men's 826 00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:42,760 workspace has been so profound that I, I can now like, smile 827 00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:48,280 with deep gratitude and awe at the, you know, the, the way the 828 00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:53,320 universe works and, and Matt's always with me and a part of me 829 00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:56,640 and especially in the men's workspaces. 830 00:56:56,640 --> 00:57:02,640 And, and it feels like a real alchemization that's that's put 831 00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:10,480 me at, at great, a great sense of, of peace and, and well-being 832 00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:14,440 and purpose with it all. Yeah, just, you know, if you're 833 00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:16,280 still listening at this point, Thank you. 834 00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:20,120 Thanks for thanks for listening. Thanks for hearing me and and 835 00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:23,320 some of my journey. And I hope it was valuable or 836 00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:30,000 impactful for you or, you know, maybe some parts allowed you to 837 00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:33,880 feel that sense of not alone in this. 838 00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:38,000 I can relate to that. And yeah, I appreciate what you 839 00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:41,880 spoke to there, Ben, as well of that US meeting in the men's 840 00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:46,200 workspace and both feeling this strong sense of the life force 841 00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:48,840 pillar. The sexuality piece isn't really 842 00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:54,360 talked about or acknowledged in the depth that you and I would 843 00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:56,720 like to see it brought through in those spaces. 844 00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:00,360 And so it's, yeah, it's been a real honor and joy to to work 845 00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,800 together to bring this into the men's workspace and actually to 846 00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:07,760 bring men's work and brotherhood into the sacred sexuality space 847 00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:12,600 and kind of fusing and creating a synthesis that we know has 848 00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:15,080 been incredibly potent and excited to see where it 849 00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:20,640 continues to go. So appreciate the questions, 850 00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:22,640 brother. It's always, it's always a real 851 00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:25,480 joy and honored to sit down with you. 852 00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:29,880 And I know our time is coming to completion here. 853 00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:34,680 So I feel complete with that. Yeah, brother, appreciate you 854 00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:38,360 coming on the show today and sharing your story so openly and 855 00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:42,720 vulnerably. Here's to this work continuing 856 00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:46,640 to grow and to spread with us and the brothers alongside of 857 00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:50,240 us, all of us who are stepping into the men we came here to be. 858 00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:54,840 It is such an honor to share this path with you, bro. 859 00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:57,600 And to all the other brothers out there, big shout out to all 860 00:58:57,600 --> 00:58:59,120 the guys in our training program. 861 00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:01,960 Big shout out to you tuning in as well. 862 00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:05,000 If you're interested in joining our next training program, it 863 00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:06,320 launches at the end of the month. 864 00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:09,680 Check us out at menssexualmastery.com. 865 00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:14,600 So with that, we'll be signing off wishing you all an amazing 866 00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:17,040 week and we'll catch you on the next one. 867 00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:19,080 Send the big love brothers.