All right, welcome everybody to another episode of the Men's
Sexual Mastery Podcast where we are supporting our brothers
awakening, empowering and aligning their sexual energy to
show up as the leaders they came here to be.
Not only in the bedroom, but in life as well.
Here in service to future generations, to future families,
to future children who are waiting to be born into the
families where the men have their sexual energy integrated.
The men are fire tenders, as we like to say.
They're keepers of the hearth of the intimacy in the relationship
and step into that leadership so that the whole house can be
warned. We are leaving behind the old,
outdated program of the honeymoon phase of the belief
that after you have kids, after you've been in a relationship,
after a certain amount of time, the intimacy just fades.
That is no longer the case. And we are here to guide
brothers in this work of stepping into that leadership
through these tools and these practices.
So with that, I am so excited to dive in today with my brother
Ian Hawks. Welcome to the show, brother.
Hey. Thanks, Ben.
Thanks everybody. We're going to be unpacking some
of your story today. I know last week you brought in
my story, and I have no doubt the listeners are going to
really benefit from hearing about what brought you into this
work and onto this path. So I'd love to kick things off
just with the question, what was your earliest sexual memory
growing up? Yeah, I can remember very
clearly where I was in the bedroom, in the house I grew up
in. I had heard from my friends at
school about this thing called masturbation and ejaculation.
I hadn't experienced it yet. Some guys had talked about wet
dreams as well, and I hadn't experienced any of that.
But I was quite curious and I thought I should probably try
this out. And I actually found my older
brother's stash of porno mags and I was like, OK, here we go.
And so I I tried this masturbation thing out and built
arousal and I had an orgasm, but I didn't actually ejaculate.
I was a little slower to mature, a little slower to puberty than
my peers. And I had an orgasm, but nothing
came out. And I was like, is there
something wrong with me? And I was confused and a little
concerned for a while. And also just this feeling of
like, oh, I'm slow to develop. You know, some of my friends had
already started getting facial hair.
I didn't have any of that. And and so it was kind of a
mixed experience of, OK, this is really pleasure full.
What is this? And also like, is there
something wrong with me? Why am I?
Why am I not having this experience that my peers have
talked about? Yeah, that that pattern, that
program of what's wrong with me is is 1.
I know I can relate to, I'm sure a lot of guys.
I imagine that dampened your experience of sexual energy
right out the gate, would you say?
Yeah, to a degree. Had me questioning like, am I
doing this right? What's going on?
And, you know, there was also I, I mentioned I had taking my my
brother's porn and like, there was also, that was something I
did sneakily and without permission or without his
knowing. And there was also this element
of like, I'm doing something wrong.
There was shame and guilt woven into that as well.
And I could share more about, you know, some other ways that
that showed up kind of early on And and I feel had a significant
imprinting kind of weaving that sexual arousal experience with
guilt and shame and even like, is this right?
Is this appropriate? Yeah.
Yeah, that that shame, that guilt, that repression.
I know you experienced a lot when you were younger.
Yeah. Do you want to speak to any
other experiences you had around that that brought in that?
Yeah, I'd say like the the most prominent 1 happened very early
on as well. I was outside and I caught a
glimpse of my neighbor through the window.
She was changing and I was completely captivated.
It was my first experience seeing a naked woman's body in
real life. And I, I had this like, surge of
adrenaline and arousal and shame and guilt, like, I shouldn't be
doing this. I know it's inappropriate, but I
can't stop. It was just so captivating.
And. And so there was, yeah, also
this, this like real life live experience of like, oh, I'm
doing something wrong. And also, holy cow, this is so
arousing. This is so, you know, beautiful
and enjoyable on one hand, but also feels so wrong.
And yeah. And then later on, I found my
dad's porn stash. And then again, I was like using
my dad's porn stash and then feeling like, oh, like, this is
wrong too. And like everyone in my family,
all the men in my family seem to like have this and they're
hiding it as well. But no one's talking about it.
And it was all just this like shadow, deep shadow aspect of
arousal and sexual energy. And, and no, no, like role model
or teacher to show me what's really going on and to, to help
me understand this energy. I was just figuring it out by
myself, deeply in the shadows. Yeah, it's incredible how when
sexual energy, when anything stays in the shadows, how it
often can revert to pretty low vibrations, you could say, or
pretty repressed, shame filled, guilt filled kind of behaviors.
Yeah, yeah. I could share a little bit about
my first experience with a woman too, if you like that.
Yeah, yeah. I'd love to hear this thread of
how that shame, shame and guilt followed you and that repression
and then yeah, how it how it started to surfaced and how you
how you eventually broke through that.
Yeah, breaking through the shame took a long time.
We could get to that. It's a little later on in the
story, but my this kind of feels like the the final part of
initial sexual experiences actually coming together with a
woman. My first say my second serious,
serious girlfriend. I was in grade 9, so that's like
12 or 13 years old. And I at this point, several of
my friends had had their sexual debut or lost their virginity,
as we tend to say it here, but I prefer the term sexual debut.
And I was with a woman and she had, she had already been with a
partner and, and had sex, but I was a virgin still.
And you know, there's like, I also want to mention there's two
sides. There was my individual
experience with sexual energy and pleasuring myself, which was
heavily layered with that shame and guilt.
But there was there's also always been a part of me that
when I am with a woman, there's an immense feeling of rightness
to it and and a deep desire to show up in the best way I can
for that partner. And and A and actually a really
enthusiastic approach to sex and and sexual energy with a
partner, which also I can get to you later on.
There was a lot of unconscious suppression within me of sexual
energy and in relationship, which I think is is an
interesting and important thing to speak to.
But again, that awareness didn't come in till later in life.
So coming back to this sexual debut, little 12 year old Ian
with, with my girlfriend at the time and my parents were out.
So we had the house to ourselves and we're like, OK, we're, we're
doing it. It's happening.
And she, she started going down on me and very quickly I lost
control and I, I could feel right away I'm like, Oh no, I'm
going to come like this is too soon.
We haven't even actually had sex yet.
This is just oral sex. And I went to like lift her off
because I was like, Oh no. And I also was like, I don't
want to cum in her mouth like that.
That doesn't seem right. I remember there was all this
like, oh, no, this isn't right. And I lifted her off, but it was
too late. And I just came like on myself.
And and then I was like, oh, man, like that was my chance.
I was about to lose my virginity and I messed it up.
And so fortunately, I had the awareness to be like, you know
what, let's just give this a little bit of time.
Let's go downstairs, watch some TV. 20-30 minutes later we came
back upstairs and and actually had the penetrate of sex that I
had been so excited for years to experience.
And it was comically short like same thing just entered and and
very quickly lost control and ejaculated and felt like OK,
well I did it now I can high 5 my Bros.
But if I'm being honest, that didn't really feel like I did
something worth celebrating. I felt like I had let my partner
down and and I remember at that point I was like I'm going to I
don't want to feel this way. I got to figure out how to
please my partners. Yeah, I think that's such a
common experience for pretty much every man.
You know, I think coming to that kind of an age, age range, and I
can imagine carrying some of that shame and repression and
you know, some of those patterns within your body too would
contribute to premature ejaculation.
Yet knowing what we know now with a lot of the psychosomatic
connection with how long we can last and the tension in our mind
which is expressed in the body. Yeah.
And the, and the pattern by that point I had, you know, by that
point I had experienced an ejaculation and I had been
enthusiastically masturbating, you know, I'm sure every day,
multiple times a day, probably up until that first sexual
debut. So my body had already had time
to have that pattern of quick masturbation to ejaculation,
like programmed into it, in which as you and I know, and as
we teach in in the program, it's actually re patterning that sort
of typical self pleasure response of building tension to
a release. And so yeah, that took me.
I didn't didn't have that level of awareness at that point.
But yeah, I think that was also contributing.
I'm really curious about, you know, like as as young men, as,
as adolescent boys entering that period of puberty and 1st sexual
experiences, how different it could be had we actually had
some education and initiation into our sexual energy, into
what love making is and can be. And like, maybe it's not
inevitable that as a 12 year old boy, you're only going to last
one or two minutes, you know, more 20 seconds.
Maybe actually that's that doesn't need to be the case, but
without any proper training and initiation around that, I think
it is very often the case. Yeah, yeah.
I could imagine that a man or a young man who's just entering
his sexual years, having access to all of the tools and the the
guidance and the initiation that you're speaking to, and being
able to move and circulate his sexual energy and not start
piling on all those unconscious programs of addiction to
ejaculation and release and pornography and all the
repression and shame and guilt. I can only imagine how much that
could fuel his momentum, you know, as a man.
So, you know, I'm really excited too about, you know, a lot of
our work at men's sexual mastery, It's all with adult men
right now. But in the future, we we do have
the intention of creating programs for young men and
eventually young women, all genders.
So yeah, I'll be excited to see that as it unfolds.
But to get back to your story, Hawks, I'm curious.
So this just staying with the thread of the shame, the guilt,
the repression that you carried that was programmed at these
young ages. How did that follow you into
adulthood? And and yeah, when did things
start to shift for you? Were you really opened up to
this path? Yeah, that as I was mentioning
before, that shame and guilt and shadow aspect of sexual energy
was ever present in my life, just in the background, whether
I was in a relationship or not. Using porn, having these sexual
experiences with myself that carried some element of shame,
you know, really chronic porn use for so many years.
And like I said, often times, whether I was in a relationship
or not, there were periods I can remember.
Often it would be at the, at the beginning stages of a
relationship where I'd be like, no, like I don't, I don't want
or need this at all. I'm so in love.
I'm so attracted to this woman. Like using porn feels like
cheating. I'm not going to do that.
And then eventually there would come a point in the relationship
where that novelty wears off or my own self-control is
diminished at some point. And then I would often come back
to it. And then it would be feel even
more wrong because I'm I'm now in a relationship.
And so there was there was that. And then actually in
relationships, it took me a long time to understand how much of
my own sexual expression and relationship to sexual energy as
a whole was being suppressed and repressed.
And yeah, I could share a bit about a particular partner that
I had that really helped me in understanding and bringing
consciousness to that, to that element of me that was so
repressed and still in the shadow.
Yeah, yeah, go into it bro, Feel free.
Yeah. So my previous partner the the
woman that I was in a long term committed relationship with
before my current partner, she was an amazing woman, really
like such a big beautiful open heart and so open in her
expression, in her authentic expression in all ways.
And sexual energy was one of those ways that she was free.
From my perspective. Looking back at it now, I
actually see her expression as being so beautiful and free.
And looking back at myself, I realized how much of my own
heart was guarded and closed off and how much of my own sexual
energy and expression was guarded and closed off.
And, and I, I'm sure that a huge part of that is because of the
guilt and shame that I associated with sexual energy.
And so when that, when I felt that energy arise, it would
often be met with this is inappropriate or this isn't
right. And so that partner, that
relationship created a lot of a lot of challenges for me, a lot
of inner turmoil when I would observe my partner being
expressed in in ways that I was not capable to at that point.
So even when it comes to the open heart, she would tell her
friends, boy, guys and girls like that she loves them just
leaving, you know, like how, how I do now because I've learned to
open my heart in that way. But to be able to have platonic
love and just share like, I love you.
OK, see you later. And that, that created a lot of
anguish in me because I was like, oh, but that's these,
these sacred 3 words that are only meant for our, for our one
chosen lover. And I, it, it was, it's comical
for me now to look back at how much that disturbed me.
And, and then other experiences like she would, she would like
not wear a bra or wear a thong bikini at the beach.
And it was really difficult for me.
And I would actually, I remember some really uncomfortable
conversations that I, I would essentially be asking her not to
wear those things or not to go out in public in those ways,
which I can look back at now. I'm just like, man, that's not
the vibe that I want to bring into relationship and into the
world and into myself. But I was operating at the level
of consciousness that was available to me at that time.
And, and it was a lot of, you know, shaming her.
I realized I like, projected my own shame onto her.
And I've since then had many deep conversations with her and
actually understood just how deeply that impacted her and how
much that hurt her and how actually, like traumatic those
experiences were for her. And it's been a big reconciling,
you know, in that relationship and in myself with the awareness
of how much pain I caused without realizing it at the time
and how much of my own experience I was projecting on
the world around me. Yeah, it's amazing how these
patterns that come at such a young age, this the shame, the
repression, the guilt can managed to find its way in these
shadowy behaviors and relationship.
And and that projection is so real, you know, like we're our
partners are mirror, as we say all the time in this work.
And I could see how that, you know, on the surface what might
come across as like insecurity was like you're not being
comfortable with her dressing a certain way, but like underneath
it, it's actually the outlet of that shame of the trigger.
That sexual energy should be hidden and kept in the shadow,
like, and how that was, yeah, projected under her.
That that tracks. That really makes sense.
It was, it was truly my own lack of containment that that led me
to feel like what she was doing was wrong.
Because I was seeing the world through my own eyes where I'm
like, I see that as some kind of a, a sexual act.
Because if I at that point in my life, when I observed that in
another woman, it awakened this uncontained sexual urge within
me. And I was like, why would you
want to go around the world, you know, igniting that in people.
And now I can look back and see like, oh, that was like my own
lack of containment again, projecting my own experience on
the world. And now I, I look at those types
of, you know, I, I look at that type, that way of being in the
world is actually being so beautiful.
When I see a woman in that energy now I'm like, wow, thank
you for like sharing this with the world.
This is beautiful. And I don't need to, I have
containment within myself where I can smile and breathe into
that. And it's not overwhelming me.
It's just adding more beauty to the world.
And and I can just feel into like, if this is what if this
person feels comfortable and expressed in this way, then
power to you. It's not about, you know, it's
not not making it about myself and my own, my own shit, you
know? Or compulsions, right?
Like being able to pull that energy up and sublimate it and
pull it into the heart and transmute it into a generative
energy that's actually, you feel like you got a little pick me
up, you know, and continue on with your day rather than
compulsively needing to release this energy because you don't
know how to contain it, how to hold it like you're sharing.
So. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which this, that ability to breathe that energy up to allow
it to be generative and not leading to some compulsive
behavior is, I think, more important now than ever when we
live in a world where sexual energy and imagery is
everywhere. And without that level of
containment within ourselves, without that ability to
sublimate that energy as you're speaking to, it's just, I can't
imagine, you know, how difficult it must be for young men,
especially to like move through the world right now.
And that's a big part of, you know, I know for both of us, a
big part of what we are here to to share and to bring in is, is
the ability to stay grounded within ourselves while we move
through the world, no matter what the stimulus is around us.
And and it's actually not that complicated.
It does take does take training and and commitment and
consistency, but it completely shifts.
It's just learning a new skill that completely shifts how we
interact with the world around us, and it's so empowering.
Amen, brother. Yeah, I'd love to switch gears a
little bit and hear a little bit of your journey around semen
retention and how you first stumbled across it.
If I remember correctly, you went on a pretty long streak,
which I'd love for you to share and and then had an experience
coming out of that and some of the dangers perhaps or
misunderstandings, misconceptions about semen
retention. And then yeah, I'd love to hear
just your little more around your awakening with these
practices and with these tools and and sexual transmutation.
Yeah, that's, it's a great place to move to now because it was a
little after that relationship that I was just speaking to came
to a, a completion and I was, that's when my healing journey
really started. I, I learned, I started
listening to podcasts right around that time and I learned
about this therapeutic approach to psychedelic medicines to, to
mushrooms specifically. And I'd had a lot of
recreational experience with mushrooms at that point in my
life. But this idea of of a
therapeutic experience was something that really, it
ignited something in me. And I was very shortly after
that relationship ended. I was, you know, in the journey
of discovering who I am again, the death and rebirth process
that comes at the completion of, of a long relationship like
that. And I decided, all right, I'm
going to try this 5 grams of dried mushrooms blindfolded in a
room and, and approach it in a therapeutic way.
And I had a playlist that was curated by Johns Hopkins
University for specifically for psychedelic therapy.
And I went deep and I had an incredibly profound experience
of actually experiencing myself dying.
I really thought I was dying during the come up of the
mushrooms. I fully thought I was dying.
And I went through that process. And then I was in this liminal
space and eventually was reborn. And I won't go too much into
that, but the probably the biggest, most profound take away
for me from that journey was the awakening of my heart, the
understanding I got to reflect on.
I was shown so many ways that in that previous relationship, I
had actually just been operating from a place of repression and
suppression and shame and, and I understood what love was in a
new way. And it sounds kind of cheesy,
but but that was definitely the breaking point for me, like into
this new level of consciousness. And there's, you know, to Fast
forward from there. There was a point along that
healing journey where I realized, you know what?
This current approach to sexual energy isn't working for me.
I no longer want to be in this pattern of looking at porn,
masturbating and ejaculating all the time.
This doesn't feel right. I don't, it doesn't fill me with
a high vibrational experience afterwards.
And I just decided one day that you know what I'm done with
this. And I was about to leave for a
tree planting season. So Ben, you know, and, and
anyone who knows me knows that I was a tree planter here in BC,
in Canada for a long time, 12 years.
And tree planting is a really grueling physical labor job
where you're out in remote places for months at a time, and
you're planting thousands of little seedlings in areas where
the forest has been cut for the logging industry in Canada.
And it's a really interesting opportunity to have deep, solo
meditative time by yourself in nature while also working really
effing hard. And you actually paid per tree
that you plant. So the faster you work, the
harder you work, the more money you can earn.
And I became, I became quite good at that.
And I would spend, you know, about half my year planting
trees. And the, the season that I went
into it where I decided I'm not looking at porn, I'm not
masturbating anymore, was the most insanely productive season
of my life. I had already reached a kind of
a plateau at that point in my career.
And all of a sudden I just blew past that plateau and I had
focus and drive and energy that I had never experienced before.
And so I went on for many months.
It was, you know, probably around 8 months of abstinence.
And that worked really well for me at the time.
And it brought an awareness and a lived experience for me that
like, oh, there's, there's something here.
This whole abstaining from ejaculation and porn is like
really powerful as fuel for me as a man moving through the
world in my mission and purpose. And that felt really empowering.
And it lit me up. And so I kept going.
And then I met a woman that I was like, oh, I really want to,
I want to be in relationship with this woman.
And I pursued her and we started dating, and then we got to our
first experience with sex. Really quick, how many months
into semen retention, no ejaculation were you at this
point? More or less.
It's more or less 7-8 months and I will say with the caveat being
that I did have the occasional wet dream during that time.
But yeah, just for context for guys knowing, you know, how long
this recharge had been going on. Yeah.
And. Not just a recharge, but a
complete like abstinence from touching myself or sex with
another person. Essentially, my I had just been
ignoring my genitals and my sexual energy for that whole
time. And just funneling it all into
tree planting, making money, breaking records.
And you were like the number one.
I mean, you were doing things you were planting at a rate that
nobody even in your circles of planting had seen, right?
Well, I mean, there were. It was definitely the like in
the top tier. I did end up finishing that
season higher production than any other than anyone else in
the camp of maybe 80 to 100 planters.
There were other people that that were like at that level and
we'd kind of go back and forth. One day I plant more, another
day they plant more. But over the course of the
entire season, because I never missed a single day and because
I was showing up with that level of intensity and production
every single day, when you add up the tallies over the course
of the entire season, I, I came out on top and secret weapon.
It was, it was a secret weapon. And so then, yeah, to Fast
forward to now, I'm like, OK, I'm in a position where I want
to be in a sexual relationship again.
And I was excited for that. I felt like this is right.
But also I was nervous because I was like, I haven't even, I
haven't done anything with my cock in so long.
And sure enough, we we came together and I really struggled
to show up in the bedroom in the ways that I would like to.
I was having like less consistent erections.
That kind of just happened the first time.
And then I think it got in my head a lot and and I wasn't
lasting as long as I'd like. And I essentially just wasn't
showing up and pleasing this woman who I cared about a lot at
the time. And it it plagued me and that
relationship didn't pan out. Not surprising, you know, for me
because I was like it that, that ability, that inability to show
up sexually with with her just absolutely like tore down the
confidence that I have for myself in that relationship.
And so I know that it bled into every other aspect of our
relationship because I in the, in my, in the forefront of my
mind, every time I saw her, I was like, I'm not showing up
sexually. And, and so that relationship
didn't pan out. And then I was.
Like can I pause here for Hawks and just just to highlight this,
like this is the shadow of the semen retention, just like no
fat movement that a lot of people don't talk about.
And that's why we use the word semen intention and not semen
retention, because what Hawks is describing can be a common
experience for guys who figure out that holy shit, this is
rocket fuel for my business, for my workouts, for my growth, you
know, and MMA fighting and boxing, like they've known this
for decades, you know, but the shadow of it a lot of people
don't talk about is that you can actually get atrophied sexually,
which is the experience Hawks is, is speaking to.
And and that's why in our, a lot of our work, we're here to help
educate guys so you don't swing too far in the pendulum in any
One Direction. But yeah, Hawks and wanted to
hand it back to you. Just wanted to mention that
though, for people listening in like this, atrophy is real.
It can happen. If you go all in on semen
retention, you got to be mindful of it.
If you don't use it, you lose it.
Yeah. That that, you know, Cliche kept
repeating in my mind every time I would have this failed sexual
experience. Failed from my perspective, a
sexual experience. I was like, if you don't use it,
you lose it. I haven't been using it for a
really long time. I think I might have lost it.
I was. Like.
This is not, this is not OK with me.
You know, I'm I'm a sexual being.
I desire to have a robust sex life and I don't want or need to
change that. And so there was this awareness
at that point that the approach that I've been taking for the
last eight months worked in a lot of ways, but also did not
work for me in this one really important way.
So back to the drawing board. That's, that's not the way.
And you know, that was I, I went on that journey before Nofap or
semen retention was in my field at all.
Like I hadn't learned about that.
This was just something I was like, I'm just going to try this
out. It was really just this feeling
of like porn doesn't seem to be right for me.
Let's put that away and everything that comes with it.
And so I was after that, you know, short lived relationship,
I was like, OK, so now I'm single again.
What, How am I going to be in right relation with my sexual
energy and with my genitals? And I was, I was really just
unsure for a while. And then all of a sudden, Montag
Chia came into my field. I listened to a podcast and
Montag Chia was the guest. And he was sharing this ancient
wisdom, the Taoist approach to being in harmony with our sexual
energy. And he was talking about
harmonious ejaculation periods for men based on age.
And I was like, oh, of course, that makes so much sense.
And everything he was sharing just like landed for me as as
truth and as like the, the wisdom and then the teachings
that I had been searching for my whole life.
And then all of a sudden it was there And that door opened up.
And, and after I explored into Montague Chia, I learned about
all of these other teachers and I started taking trainings and
reading all the books. And that was like the rabbit
hole presented itself and I just dove right in.
And I was like, I've been looking for this my whole life.
And that's when I really, that's when I really started to awaken
to sexual energy in a new way, in a harmonious way.
And yeah, that's that kind of brings us up until that point in
the journey. Yeah, Yeah.
I wanted to also bring in here just another aspect.
I know you've mentioned to me a pattern that you had for a long
time was seeking validation through women and notches on the
belt. Could you speak a little bit
about how that shifted for you as well?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
So that's another shadow aspect of my relationship to sexuality
that was present in my life for a very long time.
And it was this feeling of insecurity, just general
insecurity. And myself, whether it was from,
you know, acne that I had or from a feeling of, you know, I'm
too skinny or that piece around actually not really feeling
fully capable to please a woman the way that I would like to and
the way that I felt was possible.
All of those pieces layered into this general sense of
insecurity. And I would seek security by
being with a woman. If I could have the validation
of sleeping with a woman, it felt like, OK, I can relax for a
minute. I'm worthy.
And that just manifested as like conquest, the notches in the
belt as you as you speak to just always seeking that next one
night stand or like friends with benefits or you know, I had also
many relationships that were sexual in their nature, but more
than a one night stand, but not the depth of connection and and
commitment that I'm now interested in.
But it was always like, as long as I could be somewhat
consistently sleeping with a woman, I felt like OK with
myself. But if I'm being honest, it was
still like the next day after sleeping with a woman, I'd be
back, you know, essentially. Or a few days later, I'd be back
to that same just general sense of insecurity, not being whole
in myself on my own. And I just didn't understand
that that was actually that void was for me to fill, not for
someone else to fill. But I was seeking outside of
myself. Yeah.
And I'm curious to hear a little bit about, you know, coming into
the relationship you're in now, which has been about five years,
if I'm correct. Is that right?
And what has shifted, What's your experience been like to
choose one woman with that ability, that capacity to
continue just being in your conquest?
What made you choose commitment? And what's that been like for
you in the past five years since doing that?
Well, what it's been like is the most robust feeling of
well-being I've ever experienced and peace the this relationship
that I'm in came. You know, I became available for
this kind of relationship shortly after learning and
understanding these new ways of relating with sexual energy that
I was speaking to and opening up to a new way of relating with my
heart and with sexual energy. And I met my current partner,
Aspen. And we, I, I was attracted to
her and drawn to her right away. I asked her out right away and
she said thank you. But I'm, you know, not ready for
that right now. Let's just be friends.
And I was like, yeah, I'm OK with that.
Because I had already at that point developed a level of
confidence and security in myself because I'd started to
work with these practices and I was more harmonious with my
sexual energy and, and quite confident in myself.
And over the period of time before we actually joined
together in an intimate relationship, we had a lot of
open conversations about sexual energy, different ways of
relating, just unconventional ways of approaching the subject
of sex and sexuality. So we had already established a
baseline of like, oh, we're both really interested in this topic
and we eventually felt right for us to, to go on an official
date. And by that point there had
already been a strong foundation laid in our relating.
And, and once we actually came together intimately, it was
quite profound and was like, there was an awareness that, oh,
this could be something very serious.
And so I would say like I was required to get to into a place
of right relation with my own sexual energy before I actually
became available for the type of relationship that I now get to
enjoy. And really being at a place in
my life where I was ready to say, yes, I'm 100% all in.
I'm fully committed to you. This is all like this.
I'm yours, you know, like I give myself fully to this
relationship and I'm not looking outside of it in any way because
the the level of connection that became available because I had
reached this level in my own sexual journey and my partner
had been doing a lot of work in that realm with herself as well.
That when we eventually came together, it was something
different than I had experienced before.
And there was an awareness that this could go as deep as we
allow it to go and as wide as we allow it to go.
And this is there is everything that I need or that's important
to me in relating and in sexuality, that all of that is
available to me in this relationship if I give, if I
continue to give myself fully to it and continue to show up
fully. And that opened up like I was
speaking to this, this sense of well-being and peace because I
no longer had to look outside of myself or outside of
relationship. It was all in here and myself.
And it was all in the union that that I chose and continue to
choose again and again to be in with my partner.
And yeah, that sense of security that comes from me, like I
don't, I don't need anything outside of this is like a huge
relaxation and allows for so much more focus to be put
towards all the other aspects of life that are, that are deeply
important to me as well. Yeah, and I'm loving that you're
speaking to that inside out game, that ability to get right
within yourself. And it would totally make sense
that until you do that, you know you're not going to have your
perfect partner show up. You're going to continue to get
the reflections from the world around you and from your
partners of who you are being of how you're showing up.
And we talk about this all the time in our community and with
the men we serve, men who are single.
And we we future pace them into that future present self and
continuing to trust that inside out game that the more you show
up in right relation with yourself, actually, and the
fully able to contain your energy that is magnetizing your
ideal partner. And until you're doing that,
you're going to continue to attract drama and things will
continue to expose to you where you're out of integrity with
yourself ultimately. So I love hearing that journey
for you. And I also love hearing just the
like I'm really feeling the quality over quantity piece.
And I know so much of that extra energy that is no longer spent
seeking. You know, I'm constantly on the
chase for something that, you know, grass is greener thing.
When that's brought into not just the, the ability for you to
focus and life on all these other things, but into the
relationship and all that energy for, for the thousands of women
you can be with to be all directed into one.
I know in my experience too, in committed partnership right now,
it's like I get to experience the thousand faces of my woman,
you know, and all the different versions of her.
Sometimes when we're making love, it's like, I'm like, just
shocked by how beautiful she is and the different facets of her.
And the deeper I go into that devotional act of that committed
relationship, that depth, just mining deeper and deeper and
deeper with one person, it actually brings so much more
than I could ever get with sleeping with thousands of
women. So it's something I deeply
resonate with. And yeah, I'm curious, do you
have any other thoughts around that for men who are are seeking
or are in partnership? Yeah, I just like exactly what
you said. Until we learn to appreciate the
all in the one, we won't ever be satisfied seeking, you know, the
all. It's that ability to to
recognize and understand and approach like the partner that
that we choose, that we get to, to be in this sacred union with
is representative of all women everywhere.
Any aspect of the feminine that you might, you know, admire or
appreciate or desire in someone else.
There is a way to tap into that within this one because the all
is expressed in the one you know, the the ocean is in a drop
of water. And it's our ability to tap into
that that creates that level of peace and satiation and and
well-being that if we don't learn, until we learn to truly
do that, it doesn't matter like you're saying, how many other
women we sleep with, because it will always feel like there's
something missing because we're not able to understand that the
all is in the one. And so, yeah, that's definitely
been my experience as well. You know, when I, I often think
of that the, the many faces and aspects of of my partner in
long, like prolonged eye gazing practices that comes through so,
so strongly for me. Like her face will shift in age
and shape and ethnicity even in like there's so many different
faces that I've seen in just gazing into her eyes and
experiences like that, you know, can can really help me to like
experientially understand like, Oh, the all is in the 1 here.
And, and like you were saying as well, the more, the more variety
that we can bring into our, our one, you know, our, our union.
There's, there's so many different aspects of our partner
and of the intimate relationship between two people that we can
experience throughout a lifetime where that, you know, that
novelty piece is accessible in one partnership as well.
It's, it's a different aspect of novelty, but it's, it's there if
we, if we choose to, to really show up for it and to put the,
you know, the energy into it that's required to continue to
evolve that that relationship and not just rinse and repeat
the same, you know, sex position and approach that works.
You know, this works for both people.
So let's just keep doing that. Well, eventually, you know, it's
going to lose some of its, some of its flair.
So yeah, that's what comes up around that.
And that's exactly why the Brotherhood is here, why we had
men's sexual master providing that support for brothers to
expand that toolkit to come into greater coherence within
themselves, right relation with their own sexual energy.
Get off of porn. Release the shame, release the
guilt, release the repression. Have an open space to process
and update our software essentially so that we can show
up in these ways in an ever deepening relationship.
So I know Hawks, our time is is coming up here pretty soon.
I had one other question for you.
I wanted to hear a little bit about your background in men's
work and what drew you into men's work and how you feel.
Specifically, men's work ties into this practice of sexual
transmutation. The men's work ties into this,
you know, as you were just speaking about the brotherhood
and, and what we, how we serve and what we provide in that
container is that element of brotherhood to me brings in the,
the community, the shared aspect of, of learning and growing
together and the the part of like initiation where it's not,
we're not just doing this on our own, taking some, you know,
self-paced online course trying to learn about it.
It's like we're going through this process as a group and
people are different things are like awakening in different
people and we're going through this group initiation.
That to me is, is a really important aspect of creating a
like a demarcation between this was the old way of relating to
sexual energy. And like this is the new way.
And I'm not just doing this on my own.
It's like there's a group that's got my back and like, we're
going through this together. And so that's a little, a little
snippet on where I feel men's work has such a crucial, it is
such a crucial ingredient in the process.
And As for my, As for my, you know, discovery, I would say of
men's work, it really came through a deep, deep wound in my
life. I had been on this journey of,
OK, I'm, parts of me are awakening.
I'm, I'm learning new skills. I started working with, you
know, different trainings like breath work and, and serving in
plant medicine spaces, being really exposed to different
modalities of, of healing work or of, you know, like
connection. I would really refer to it as
connection with deeper parts of ourselves and community,
connecting with community and in different ways.
And around that time, my, my best friend, like my soul
brother was going through a really dark night of his soul
and he, he was struggling with addiction and he ended up
overdosing and he died. And that was in 2021.
And that completely rocked my world.
I had never known a grief like that before in my life.
And there was a lot of guilt and shame associated with that as
well because he was, he was my best friend and I felt like I
had let him down. I don't look at it that way
anymore, but there was a really deep wound there of my own sense
of not being enough and and this deep loss of such an amazing
person in my life and in the lives of everyone who knew him.
It was a huge, huge loss. And right around that time,
somebody in my community turned me on to Sacred Sons.
They're like, hey, you should listen to this podcast and I
didn't even know what men's work was up until that point.
And I started listening to the sacred sons podcast and I was
like, oh, there's something here, like there's a place for
men to go and it just felt so right.
And I was I just went on. I was like, how can I get
involved in this? This is it would felt.
It was so clear to me like this is the guidance.
I can't bring Matt back, but there was this deep knowing in
me that this is a place, these this men's workspace is a place
where I can go and discover something in and for myself.
And also I felt really called to be of service in that world in
some way. I was like, if I can, if I can
find a way to support other men, I can, I can integrate this this
loss in a way that will be like positive and impactful for the
world. And so, yeah, I went to 1st in
person Sacred Sons event and experienced what felt very
psychedelic for me without any substances involved.
Just the level of shadow work, the level of acknowledgement of
the parts of ourselves that had been in the shadows for so long
and the connection and brotherhood that was different
than anything I had really experienced before.
Felt to me like, yeah, this is this is the way, this is the,
this is a missing ingredient. And this would have been so
helpful for Matt. This is helpful for me.
And this is what so many men out there are ready for and looking
for. And so I went all in and just
devoted myself to doing whatever I could to bring more
opportunities for men to gather in those ways into the world and
went into the leadership training with the Sons and
started a men's circle in my own community and have been growing
and evolving and deepening in my capacity to be of service in in
those ways. And all of it, you know, it's
still like always at the root. And the core of that is, is in
honor of my brother, Matt Hewson.
And I'm like, I'm profoundly grateful to have been shown this
world. And I know it was through Matt's
passing really feels like he guided me into this work and
the, the connections that I've made and, and the impact that
it's had on my life and that I've been able to have on other
men's lives through that discovery of this men's
workspace has been so profound that I, I can now like, smile
with deep gratitude and awe at the, you know, the, the way the
universe works and, and Matt's always with me and a part of me
and especially in the men's workspaces.
And, and it feels like a real alchemization that's that's put
me at, at great, a great sense of, of peace and, and well-being
and purpose with it all. Yeah, just, you know, if you're
still listening at this point, Thank you.
Thanks for thanks for listening. Thanks for hearing me and and
some of my journey. And I hope it was valuable or
impactful for you or, you know, maybe some parts allowed you to
feel that sense of not alone in this.
I can relate to that. And yeah, I appreciate what you
spoke to there, Ben, as well of that US meeting in the men's
workspace and both feeling this strong sense of the life force
pillar. The sexuality piece isn't really
talked about or acknowledged in the depth that you and I would
like to see it brought through in those spaces.
And so it's, yeah, it's been a real honor and joy to to work
together to bring this into the men's workspace and actually to
bring men's work and brotherhood into the sacred sexuality space
and kind of fusing and creating a synthesis that we know has
been incredibly potent and excited to see where it
continues to go. So appreciate the questions,
brother. It's always, it's always a real
joy and honored to sit down with you.
And I know our time is coming to completion here.
So I feel complete with that. Yeah, brother, appreciate you
coming on the show today and sharing your story so openly and
vulnerably. Here's to this work continuing
to grow and to spread with us and the brothers alongside of
us, all of us who are stepping into the men we came here to be.
It is such an honor to share this path with you, bro.
And to all the other brothers out there, big shout out to all
the guys in our training program.
Big shout out to you tuning in as well.
If you're interested in joining our next training program, it
launches at the end of the month.
Check us out at menssexualmastery.com.
So with that, we'll be signing off wishing you all an amazing
week and we'll catch you on the next one.
Send the big love brothers.