1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,320 All right, so at the beginning of April I went to New York for 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:07,400 the MCP Dev Summit, and while I was there I got the chance to 3 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:11,080 record a few podcasts with attendees that were at the 4 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:12,640 event. This is one of those 5 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:14,120 conversations. Hope you enjoy. 6 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:16,480 I think the main thing is that people don't quite understand 7 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:18,760 what it is that easily. People think it's some way of 8 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:20,960 mixing AI into your API in some way. 9 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,440 Like API is going to change what it does and magically it's going 10 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,360 to sort of do new things, which of course isn't what it is. 11 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,240 It's AI using AP is there's a lot of questions you get that I 12 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,720 can't answer that well because they're about other ways to 13 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,640 actually like inject prompts back into the LM or you know, 14 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:37,760 other things. But I think part of it is just 15 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,040 that if you're using MCP to use your API, it's good to not 16 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,560 exposed to much of it, and it's good to tell us if API be very 17 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:57,840 secure in the first place. Hi, I'm Alex Saltkeever and I'm 18 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,240 here at MCP Dev Summit North America in New York City. 19 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:06,640 I'm here with Ben Morse of Deep Bell, which is a Tell us what it 20 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,000 is, please. What is Deepel? 21 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:12,560 Deepel is AAI language translation company based in 22 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,240 Germany. We've got about 1000 employees, 23 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,760 so it's like a popular like phone app and web app and such 24 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,120 thing in countries like Germany and other European countries and 25 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:26,040 also Japan and even Korea not as well known in North America. 26 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,840 So hire people like me to be here in North America and say 27 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:30,640 hey, we exist. Hello. 28 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,680 Hi, here we. Are thank you. 29 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,160 The reason I wanted to talk to you though is your recent MCP 30 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,640 roadshow. 10 countries in 10 days I believe it was. 31 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,280 It wasn't quite 10 countries, but there were 10 days. 32 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:42,960 But there were. How did? 33 00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:46,640 This How did this come about? This mad plan to spread MCP to 34 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:48,560 the world. Yeah, it was kind of, it just 35 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,440 kind of grew organically. So when I got to Deep L and 36 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,800 became the developer advocate, a person had this remit to make it 37 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,000 to people knew what Deep L was in North America, and the 38 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,840 developers knew we existed. So I had to go out there in 39 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:03,880 communities and just find people. 40 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,560 And so I was looking for ways to do that. 41 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:08,800 I thought, here's a hackathon in San Francisco. 42 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:13,000 Like this was like May 2nd. In May, Sorry. 10 cities, yeah, 43 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:15,640 it was 10 planets and 10 light years. 44 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,400 That was, it was 10 cities. I think 10 talks in four 45 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,160 countries. I think, yeah, we're going to go 46 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,760 into the US of course, Canada, France, Germany. 47 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,600 I think those are the countries this demand in more places too, 48 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,520 certainly for this. So anyway, so I thought, OK, 49 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:31,920 we'll be bold. We'll go to San Francisco and 50 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:35,120 sponsor hackathon there. And I was, you know, I was 51 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,120 following AI, following agentic AI, listening to lots of 52 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,520 podcasts and trying things out. But I did what MCP was at all. 53 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:43,680 I just kept hearing about it. I thought, what are we going to 54 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:47,320 do to go to San Francisco all these cool, like I hipsters, you 55 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,680 know, with all their cool AI companies based on the Area 75 56 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:52,200 hackathon. So exactly. 57 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:54,120 Yeah. And like, I noticed you bell at 58 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,920 all we're going to do. But, you know, I'm pretty brave 59 00:02:56,920 --> 00:02:58,920 sometimes. So I figured we would just go 60 00:02:58,920 --> 00:03:01,360 there. And then I heard about MCP and I 61 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,120 thought we should build an MCP server. 62 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,320 This is like the latest hotness, just on the fly. 63 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:07,720 Like Yolo MCP. That was the idea. 64 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,600 And then there was an engineer who knew about it too and wanted 65 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,320 to try it out out and his manager thought was a good idea. 66 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,080 So we just built an MCP server, mostly him, his name is Akash 67 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,880 and he did most of the work and we just kind of helped him like 68 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:20,720 debug a little bit and then so you. 69 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,000 Did this in work essentially like a week or something right? 70 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,560 It was pretty quick yeah, but you can do with MCP, as we've 71 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,000 learned isn't that hard to actually use if you know how to 72 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,080 use it which we didn't of course. 73 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,240 So there were some confusing things that happens and 74 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,840 confusing bugs but basically finished it. 75 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,640 I went down to this hackathon give me a talk of the bidding 76 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,360 like hey you get MCP server. Everyone just figured one of the 77 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,720 many AI companies that existed people accepted us as one of 78 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,520 their own and it was actually pretty successful People didn't 79 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,640 use it much in hackathon honestly they kind of used API 80 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,520 instead but having having it meant that we were like a serve 81 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,560 a player in the scene. It was kind of like wearing the 82 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,880 right shirt or the right classes we should be knew what was going 83 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,040 on with MCP. That's how it all began, just 84 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,440 kind of as a spontaneous idea to fit into hackathon. 85 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:03,760 And so how did it progress? Because it sounded like you 86 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:08,320 learned a lot from being essentially 10 MCP hackathons in 87 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,760 four countries over a very short span of time. 88 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,600 I'm kind of curious A, what you learned B what you saw that was 89 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,160 different in the audiences, the, or even the tenor of how people 90 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,560 were approaching MCP, how it was different, you know, like what, 91 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:20,360 what did you learn? I. 92 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,960 Just thought it was really good topic and I just got really 93 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,560 interested in the topic myself. I mean, tech these days is 94 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:27,480 really fascinating. It's changing all the time and 95 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:29,960 AI is so interesting. I got really deep into actually 96 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:31,960 how it worked. I thought how could this 97 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:33,440 possibly happen? Like this is an LM. 98 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:35,560 It just like says stuff that talks to us. 99 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,520 We know really what it is. It takes in tokens as input, put 100 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,360 that tokens as output. How does it like use tools? 101 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:43,800 And none of the explanations I saw talked about how it actually 102 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:45,440 worked. They're all kind of similar and 103 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,360 talked about the USBC for AI and didn't talk about what actually 104 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,200 happened. I did a lot of thinking about 105 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,120 it, investigating, asking friends who are more deeply 106 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,880 involved than I was, and so I really understood it well. 107 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,400 And then I thought, well, I have to give a talk in June in New 108 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,360 York. I'll give a workshop at MCP 109 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:01,440 because I think it should be a thing everyone understands how 110 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:02,720 to do. So this would be a good reason 111 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,040 for me to figure out like in a couple weeks how to really works 112 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:07,560 well enough to actually teach. People had to use it, which is a 113 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,200 big challenge to actually teach the thing you don't really know 114 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,080 at all. But again, you try to go for 115 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,480 challenges in life and this makes us learn things. 116 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,240 So I realized it wasn't that hard to actually make a server. 117 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,600 Like you could actually make a server and seven lines of 118 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,160 Python, you could explain it actually pretty easily. 119 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,360 I found like the inspirations for it, like the tool former 120 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:26,960 paper from a couple years ago that talked about how to 121 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:31,320 actually just train the model with the data that wasn't just 122 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,600 data, but also these faux function calls that then could 123 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,320 be spat out by the model later on as actual function calls 124 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,040 intercepted and then uses actual function calls. 125 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,480 So I gave this workshop and it was surprisingly successful. 126 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,400 Like the room was packed. People had a lot of questions. 127 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:48,960 They actually listened. I think for the most part they 128 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:50,920 didn't ignore me as much as they might normally ignore me 129 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,040 afterwards. People were like, the next day I 130 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,000 built an MCP server, I did it, here it is. 131 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:56,480 So I realized. There was demand. 132 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,120 This is great. Then you're like, oh. 133 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:01,600 Yeah, people really were interested in the topic and it's 134 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,240 a nice entry point to learning about how to use AI because I 135 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,000 realized you could build a server pretty quickly. 136 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,680 I made a sample server that was just basically it told jokes. 137 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,280 So the the the simplest tool just returned the same joke 138 00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:15,400 every time. So very easy to understand. 139 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:17,680 You know, just return the same string every time and the joke 140 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,880 the API found is very easy to use The API cube is necessary. 141 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:22,760 You can just call the API as a REST API. 142 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,200 So I made more tools to get various kinds of jokes and I 143 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:27,920 thought it was pretty easy to understand how it worked. 144 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:29,840 It didn't look like complicated code or anything. 145 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,000 Once you install a fast MZP or your favorite client library, 146 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,760 you can just kind of do it. So I made some sample servers 147 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:37,440 like this and I started using these and more and more 148 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,600 workshops because people always wanted to hear about MCP. 149 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,160 It was a good topic for talks. Obviously. 150 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,760 So like over the next 7-8, we like what changed, what 151 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,080 progressed is was there like, yeah, sort of a, you know, 152 00:06:50,280 --> 00:06:52,480 things that at the end that were very different or. 153 00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:55,200 I did a bunch of Google Dough Fest, actually, because I used 154 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,400 to work at Google. I had friends there, so they had 155 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,880 me come in October, actually. My, my, my, my indie rock band 156 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,120 played, opened the show. Then I gave MCP Talk after that, 157 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,080 which is kind of a funny combination. 158 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:11,120 Possibly what changed there were mostly it was that there were 159 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,480 cases of people who were more interested or less interested. 160 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,400 People needed to know about it more in some cases, less in some 161 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:18,520 cases. But I think the demand is still 162 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,600 as tied as it was before. I did my last workshop on Pure 163 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:26,520 MCP in February in Philadelphia, and it was for an audience of 164 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:28,680 the eye specialist who really understood the train models more 165 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:30,400 than I do. And they were so interested in 166 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,360 the talk and didn't know these things about how it worked. 167 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,760 And I mean, I think the main thing is that people don't quite 168 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:37,440 understand what it is that easily. 169 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,480 People think it's a way of mixing AI into your API in some 170 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:41,760 way. Like API is going to change what 171 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,880 it does and magically it's going to sort of do new things, which 172 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,640 of course isn't what it is. It's AI using AP is. 173 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,760 So I think they like the idea that you can actually get the AI 174 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,880 to act in a rational way, like use one of these tools over 175 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,600 here, but use API other kinds of ways. 176 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,200 Yes, restricted, you know, it's, it's discreet, it's not as 177 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,520 stochastic. But to your question, what 178 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,560 actually has changed since then? Not much actually has changed, 179 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:07,800 to be honest. That's cool. 180 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,360 So essentially the the like the protocol people are starting to 181 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,120 get in and there's the questions are better. 182 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,080 And the desire to learn is still as big as it was before. 183 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,000 The questions are kind of the same questions like So what? 184 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,280 Are like the top five questions that people get or the 185 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,840 misconceptions or the I mean, if you were going to redesign the 186 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,640 course from the ground up, what, what would you do differently? 187 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,120 I would like to show how it worked by actually showing an 188 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:29,920 example. Actually, it's not that hard to 189 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:31,720 do. You actually can go to Claude or 190 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,799 your LM and just tell us, OK, now you can use tools with this 191 00:08:34,799 --> 00:08:38,760 protocol over here and put in some fake XML or Jason and it 192 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,320 will say, OK, I'll do that. I'll begin spitting out things 193 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,039 using those tools. You could then say, what's 5 * 8 194 00:08:44,039 --> 00:08:46,840 use your new math tool and uses the math tool it already knows 195 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:48,840 about. And instead of playing out 40, 196 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:53,800 it says, you know, like angle brackets math, 5 * 8 close angle 197 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,200 brackets math. So now the LMS are good at 198 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:57,840 actually using tools and smart about it. 199 00:08:57,880 --> 00:08:59,920 I think I tried to talk about how it actually works. 200 00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:03,080 You know, it actually generates a prompt and the prompt is the 201 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:04,320 thing which gets in the system prompt. 202 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,200 And this explains how the tools work is why your contacts went 203 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:08,920 dull and get you, not because you have a lot of stuff in 204 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:10,760 there. I would explain how it worked 205 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,560 and what it is. People wouldn't be as surprised 206 00:09:13,560 --> 00:09:17,040 by what it actually is. So I still get questions about 207 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,120 that, like how it actually works and questions that reflect what 208 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,440 really is going on. But more common questions I get 209 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,360 are about security. I was going to set. 210 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,320 So what do you tell them? I tell them be careful because 211 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,200 it's kind of like shareware. I mean, if you're downloading 212 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,880 someone else's code to your laptop and letting it run, then 213 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:36,520 be careful about that kind of thing on the design. 214 00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:40,160 Side what are the because I mean you know the project has a long 215 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,880 security best practices doc. What do you intend to starve 216 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:43,960 with? And helping people. 217 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,400 There's a lot of questions you get that I can't answer that 218 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:48,800 well because they're about are there ways to actually like 219 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,800 inject prompts back into the LLM or you know, other things. 220 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,760 But I think part of it is just that if you're using an MCP to 221 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,960 use your API, it's good to not expose too much of it and it's 222 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,280 good to tell us if the API be very secure in the first place. 223 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:02,120 And then it comes down to API security. 224 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,480 You can use the same kinds of things, I think, to secure API 225 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,480 and secure API against LMS using your API. 226 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:10,800 And then, yeah, look for those best practices and 227 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,480 authorization. Make sure that people can't just 228 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:17,400 like easy spin up gigantic queries that will, you know, 229 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,240 slow down your your servers and things like that. 230 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,040 Honestly, I don't have the best advice for security. 231 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:24,960 I think it's still a thing people have to deal with 232 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:26,680 themselves and looked into themselves. 233 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:31,080 My best advice is still just make sure your stuff is secure, 234 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,520 you know, be careful about it. Make sure you do the usual 235 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,240 things, sanitizing, input, all those kinds of things usually 236 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,120 would do. Look out for authorization 237 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,880 problems, those kinds of things. And so as you kind of traveled 238 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,920 from one of these to the next, did you see differences in the 239 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,200 way people thought about it, you know, like the AI experts versus 240 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,760 the noobs or people that are sort of full stack guys? 241 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,720 Or, you know, what were the difference in the questions you 242 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:55,960 got from the different audiences? 243 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:57,760 I couldn't always tell, honestly. 244 00:10:57,760 --> 00:10:59,520 That's a good question. I should be able to tell, but 245 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,240 it's just different places and different kinds of questions and 246 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,040 different kinds of levels of interest. 247 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,080 I gave one talk actually at a it was actually at a Business 248 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,080 School in Canada. It was another Google Dev Fest, 249 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:11,520 but the students weren't that interested. 250 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:13,600 The professionals were more interested. 251 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,200 This talk I gave, I think at all was API days in Paris. 252 00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:20,560 The room was really full. People were outside the room and 253 00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:22,120 they're really just curious about what this thing was, how 254 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,480 they could use it themselves. I think we've estimate how 255 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,360 people actually might know things because people that are 256 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,520 really involved in a technology really don't think everyone 257 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,640 knows what they're doing. But everyone else out there is 258 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,160 just kind of like, I saw this thing, I saw an article about 259 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,480 this thing somewhere, but what is this thing? 260 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,760 I don't quite know what it is. Unless you actually use it, you 261 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,840 don't really get what it is. So if you were going to try to 262 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:48,120 summarize like, you know, the the quick start guide in at all 263 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,800 5 minutes or whatever, what what, what are the principles 264 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,320 you'd go over? I would just show how to build a 265 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,880 really simple MCP server. And yeah, I talked about the the 266 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,320 principles first of like basically what it is. 267 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:02,920 It's a way you can get an LM to actually make these faux 268 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,160 function calls. And you then control the 269 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,400 function calls yourself. It calls your server. 270 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:08,960 Your server is working over here. 271 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,760 It's just basically functions. It can call your API or not, but 272 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:13,960 it's all it is, is basically you write functions of them. 273 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:18,040 MCP server can go ahead and call if it wants to and then show how 274 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,640 to build some simple ones. You know, simple simple things. 275 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,440 Once you get simple ideas down, the risk can follow from there. 276 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,440 But I found harder those MCP apps and other kinds of new 277 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,840 things, they don't always work for me quite yet. 278 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,720 And the harder did you explain like the protocol for MCP apps 279 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,280 is more complicated, MCP UI, this sort of thing. 280 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,520 Yeah, I have not had a simple way to actually explain how that 281 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:38,080 works or to even show how that works. 282 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,840 So were you involved with the design and construction at DPL 283 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:43,800 of the MCP server? I mean, did you kind of watch 284 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:44,640 the process? Yeah. 285 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:46,120 I kind of maintained myself now, so. 286 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,360 So, So what, what were the conventions around that? 287 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:51,560 Because I mean, it's kind of interesting that I mean, the 288 00:12:51,560 --> 00:12:55,720 idea of a language server over MCP, yeah, you know, like sort 289 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,440 of why or what's different or I mean, how do you design it, you 290 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,520 know, so it's different than a straight up API or something 291 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:03,160 like that. Yeah, it's not that different. 292 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,920 I mean, it's mostly about trying to find the most commonly used 293 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,000 functions of the API and make them really easy to use, like a 294 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,360 translation texts, you know, sending texts, getting text back 295 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,280 and just trying to make sure you can look for errors like our 296 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,320 language codes used correctly. Did you require a country code 297 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,080 over here or not? And give helpful information to 298 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:23,720 the LM so it knows what to actually do. 299 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:25,680 And when I first did this, I remember it would have failed 300 00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:27,040 because we use language codes incorrectly. 301 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,440 It would use lowercase and uppercase sometimes and things 302 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,120 like that. So it's not that forgiving yet, 303 00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:34,880 but now it's much more forgiving because one, we made it more 304 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,280 forgiving by giving more information in the annotations, 305 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,120 annotations and so on. And two, LM service has gotten 306 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,800 smarter of what they try. So when you started, what were 307 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,000 what were you working on? I mean what was the LLM in the 308 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,720 back what you were piping? Into I usually use cloud because 309 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,560 cloud desktop was the most fun thing to demo in and it's kind 310 00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:52,560 of make make conversation with you and it would try things out 311 00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:54,960 and try to be helpful. But it's gotten much better at 312 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:56,840 this stuff. Like last time I gave him this, 313 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,840 I, I did the talk at Drupacon last week and I wrote an MCP 314 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:04,000 server that would look for translations existing in your 315 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:05,880 Drupal site. If there weren't any, it was 316 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,040 just making new ones for you and send those over for you. 317 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,440 And it began to do all this stuff by itself. 318 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,840 I gave it a couple of tools and it would, it would use DPL's MCP 319 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:15,080 server. It's already using my clawed 320 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,480 desktop and use my, when I made for Drupal. 321 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,080 And it was just all kinds of things. 322 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,080 Do you want me to translate this into Danish for you? 323 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,080 And here it is. And it also would comment on 324 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,880 translations because it also knows translations itself being, 325 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,080 you know, also clawed behind the scenes to comments on the 326 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:30,840 translations and other kinds of ways did. 327 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,400 You I mean, so essentially you had it almost like Co browsing 328 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,240 and like, Hey, look at this Drupal site and you know, and 329 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,440 support of the CMS and look at sort of all the meta text or 330 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,400 whatever and and tell me what you think it I mean, and then it 331 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,080 went on its own. It's like, Oh, by the way. 332 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,640 Yeah, I give access to look at the nodes and see what was in 333 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:48,680 the nodes, the article nodes, other kinds of those that we 334 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:50,600 just look at these things and start making suggestions. 335 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,040 But I didn't expect at all. I thought require a lot more 336 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,640 human intervention but really tries to be helpful. 337 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,120 And and that's like something that in the past weren't there 338 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,880 specialized tools that you would, you would, you know, use 339 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,800 for translation versus, you know, sort of generic, you know, 340 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:07,920 LLM. That was the idea exactly 341 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:09,640 because people use these things called cat tools. 342 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,000 Whether these large things are often very old looking 343 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,400 interfaces that are kind of like a scary looking version of Excel 344 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:17,960 where the send off stuff from machine translation has a first 345 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,480 draft, Then the translator will then modify them as they want to 346 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,160 and it can go and find with their text you've translated 347 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,120 before is present in new text and they can try to suggest more 348 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,120 things for you. So I thought if you're actually 349 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,240 a translator working for a Drupal site, you're not going to 350 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,760 want to go and probably walk in and like start typing things as 351 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:34,600 a Drupal because it could be a little confusing. 352 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,320 Maybe you're going to want to use your favorite LM and just 353 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,760 talk to it, you know, use claw or ChatGPT or something. 354 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,160 And it was surprisingly effective at that. 355 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:44,400 Like it was really pretty friendly. 356 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,400 So you almost discovered a new product category for deep L 357 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:49,560 without realizing what you're. Doing yeah, maybe we'll actually 358 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,000 make this into a product people could use. 359 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,600 I mean, I think in these MCP apps you could actually. 360 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:55,960 What it can't do now that what server I made like in a couple 361 00:15:55,960 --> 00:16:00,080 of days is you, you can't really modify things yourself that 362 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:01,560 easily. You can, but it's not. 363 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,320 It's mostly read only. It's like, you know, it'll say, 364 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:05,760 OK, here's the translation for you. 365 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,080 Do you want to use this or not? You can type a new translation, 366 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:09,880 you can copy and paste it and change things. 367 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:11,720 It should be more like an interface, more like a cat to 368 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,480 where you have little boxes and here's the translations. 369 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,760 Do you like these things or not? Feel free to modify these 370 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:18,920 things. Send them all off as a batch to 371 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,400 the Drupal site. That'd be a better way to do it. 372 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,520 From my understanding to the audience is understanding how is 373 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,320 Deep L's translation layer differentiated or or you know 374 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,640 better than what you might get out of the frontier LMS right 375 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,120 now. Yeah, that's an interesting 376 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,040 question. Because Deep L first came out in 377 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,160 2017. They had the best translation 378 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:41,040 anywhere because they had their own models. 379 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,480 They trained to do these things with linguist help, and it's 380 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,240 better than Google Translate, better than anything else. 381 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:47,600 LMS came out with a pretty good translation, just kind of 382 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,480 out-of-the-box. So Deep L has now trying to stay 383 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,720 ahead by just taking models, building its own models, fine 384 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,600 tuning models, and just doing more and more testing with 385 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:58,960 linguists. More and more fine tuning and 386 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,760 studies and tests do show that Deep L is better for most 387 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:05,119 language pairs in most cases, often substantially better. 388 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,800 But it's more of a race now because LMS can do pretty good 389 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:09,720 translation. If you want very good 390 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:11,560 translation, you should use though, like a company like Deep 391 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:13,000 L that does it. You know, only this kind of 392 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,040 stuff. People often say they prefer it 393 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,119 and people will use it because it's just better. 394 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,240 You're translating stuff kind of casually for fun or just a few 395 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,400 strings on your site. You could probably use an ALM 396 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,440 out there and do it that way. So if anybody wants to use the 397 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,720 Dibel MTP server, they can basically integrate it into like 398 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,000 as a front layer in front of anything that they're doing. 399 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,280 Yeah, just stick it in there, try it out, and your LM will 400 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,080 know to use DIBEL usually instead of its own translation 401 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,200 these days, because it will know there's a tool for that. 402 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:43,680 They're kind of biased towards using tools as opposed to not 403 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:45,760 using tools. Yeah, and just gives you a 404 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,280 higher quality of translation. If you have things where your 405 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,800 translation quality really matters to you, You know it's 406 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,600 pretty cheap actually to DPL. So were people using, were 407 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,200 people actually building things, MCP apps or whatever with the 408 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,120 DPL MCP during this tour? I mean, they just start to see 409 00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:02,000 people try to do translation stuff. 410 00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:03,000 I. Can't tell if they're 411 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,480 coordinated or not. We've seen growth quite a bit in 412 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,280 our DPL and CV server usage is going growing. 413 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,440 It's still very small compared to the actual API, which is very 414 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,760 large, of course, but is growing very fast. 415 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,040 Even folks in that as you were building things with it and 416 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:16,520 they're making various things with it. 417 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,000 I think they just find it more convenient than using the API 418 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,000 sometimes because our tools are more carefully defined. 419 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,480 You know, like here's this translation text, here's 420 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,320 translating a document. And there are more more 421 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:29,560 guardrails around these things so that I think it's just easier 422 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:31,120 to use. So like essentially the 423 00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:34,000 flexibility of MCP was something that as you were traveling 424 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,360 around people were it's just much easier for or people that 425 00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:39,320 don't want to have to think in terms of the structures of an 426 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,840 API or. API is the reverse because API 427 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:43,520 may be a whole new thing, like what is this API? 428 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,680 How do I use this thing? MCP? 429 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:46,840 I think it's just sort of simpler. 430 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,280 Here's the tool you know. You give this tool these two or 431 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,760 three parameters and then it gives you the results you're 432 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:53,120 looking for. Very cool. 433 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,120 So when's the next tour? That's a good question. 434 00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:00,880 The last talk was just last week, but actually trying to 435 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,720 focus on making some scale content like writing more of the 436 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,640 traditional devrel things like more documentation, make some 437 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:08,720 videos, things like that. So I'm taking a little break 438 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,240 from traveling out to do those things and I want to go back out 439 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,080 there and talk again with you. More magic AI and more of those 440 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,400 sorts of topics that are also of course hot topics, you know, 441 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,760 building agents, which is super hot as you know. 442 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,280 But MCP, I mean, people still don't know what it is in most 443 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,520 cases. Outside of in New York, San 444 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,360 Francisco. Or people that are just 445 00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:29,400 following these things and who are working with it and try it 446 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,280 themselves. But people are still like, what 447 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:32,960 is this thing outside the demand bubble? 448 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,240 We always forget the demand is still there for just, you know, 449 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,640 introductory content. It's always there for 450 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,880 everything. So the next time you do a tour, 451 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:40,960 what? What are you going to do 452 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,240 differently when you design your MCP curriculum? 453 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,120 I'm going to try to make MCP app this time to see if I can get 454 00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:49,120 all the way to making apps and using the new fancier features 455 00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:51,520 and seeing how that goes. It's a good question. 456 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,280 I feel like what I had did before, how can I improve it? 457 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,680 I feel like actually if I could get people to do more coding 458 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,120 themselves, that'd be nice, because when they learn things 459 00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:02,560 for real, I'd have workshops. People often would come in 460 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,040 without a computer and wanted to listen to a talk. 461 00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:06,400 Right. So they didn't do hands on as 462 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:07,760 much actually. I first did. 463 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:09,400 I thought I'd do a workshop and people just came and they were 464 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,480 looking at me like, OK, talk to us. 465 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,120 They made it into a talk spontaneously and they did it 466 00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:17,760 later in some cases, try it themselves. 467 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:19,640 I think it's probably better. So I think if I was going to do 468 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,320 it again, if I do do it again, I'll try to get folks to 469 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,160 actually really write some code and know that you can use 470 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,120 Python, you can use TypeScript, you can use your favorite 471 00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:29,840 language. You can do it pretty quickly. 472 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,040 As long as you've got something installed on your computer, 473 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,880 which is an LLM, which is an AI client, which maybe you build 474 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,840 people don't haven't got yet. If they have an AI client, they 475 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,040 can do it. You can install your library, 476 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,200 you can just go and do it. And it feels, it feels like 477 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,360 magic actually, an LMS are actually like using your tool 478 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:47,880 and you see it doing that and then responding with your 479 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,560 information you've given it is really kind of cool. 480 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,200 I, I mean, I, I personally, I'm not a coder. 481 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:55,960 I've been, well, I'm a dangerous coder, right? 482 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,440 Like I could code stuff you would not. 483 00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,280 If one's a coder. You would not want me to put it 484 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,040 in prod, but yeah, it's just blowing me away. 485 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,800 How you know, you can essentially go into Claude code, 486 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,800 give give it a spec. It'll recommend the tool. 487 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,240 Or if there's MCP servers out there that'll make sense, it'll 488 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,280 recommend them. You know, it's a, it's, it's, 489 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,640 it's really, really different. Yeah, watching like you get like 490 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,720 Claude or Taji and they actually use your tools in the call to 491 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,480 three different tools. Like I could do a thing, I could 492 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,760 give a demo, which is like, OK, I'm going to have it use the 493 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,280 translation tool now. I'm going to ask it to translate 494 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,320 this thing, like find a joke and then translate the joke. 495 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,840 We'll call 2 tools. People are on the edge of their 496 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,200 seats. They're going to have actually 497 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,880 like tell, tell a joke, translate it into French and put 498 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,160 it into a spreadsheet. Three tools he watches Claude 499 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:38,600 spins. That actually usually does it 500 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,720 right. So it's just, it's exciting, 501 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,000 it's oddly suspenseful and gratifying because. 502 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,360 Usually it works. Thank you very much for coming 503 00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:46,240 out on the. Podcast. 504 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,640 Thank you. All the audience one last time, 505 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,440 you know, like who you are and what you do again in case you're 506 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,040 catching a tail end. In case you forgot or missed the 507 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,160 beginning because whatever reason you're doing something 508 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,360 else, I'm Ben Morris. I'm from DPL Developer Advocate 509 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,360 and we're talking about MCP servers, how they work and 510 00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:05,760 Deepel is a language translation company that uses AI makes on 511 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,200 models to make language translation as good as possible. 512 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:11,120 Thanks for coming. Thanks for having. 513 00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:13,120 Me enjoy MCP dev solar. I will, thanks.