How do you respond to children and teenagers who identify as
part of the LGBTQ plus community?
What do I do if my kid comes home from school and he's
identifying that way? Yeah.
What do you think causes homosexual desires to originate?
Should I attend my son or my friend's gate wedding?
That is a very common question. Hey guys, welcome back to the
Lila Rose Podcast. Today we're going to have back
on Kim Zember, my friend who is phenomenal.
She was here before talking about her amazing transformation
coming out of the LGBT lifestyle.
Today we're going to go more into questions that the audience
has and about LGBT related issues, the rainbow revival.
We're going to talk about unforgotten faces, her ministry
in Ethiopia and just answer some of your toughest questions.
So it's going to be great. I hope you'll enjoy it.
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checkout for 20% off your order. Kim, thanks so much for coming
back in the podcast. Absolutely in person.
I know I thought this was the original dream to have you here
in person so come true. It's it's so so Kim Zember, for
folks that didn't get to listen to the first one or just to kind
of reintroduce you, tell us a little bit about who is Kim
Zember and your background. And I want to ask specifically
about these amazing ministries you're a founder of and
involved. With yeah I'm still being taught
who I am so that is but there's a lot that that the Lord's had
me doing so I did come out of the LGBT community dated women
for years also did missions work in Ethiopia have a mission in
Ethiopia for the last 17 years. Love the younger generation have
always felt kind of drawn to Gen.
Z and just to kind of pour into the generations behind and just
wanting to see like the passion come forth, like a real love for
Jesus. Because like for me growing up,
I feel like it was kind of just a lot of rules that I was trying
to follow. And so I think when I really
tasted and experienced Jesus in a like personal and profound
way, there was like a hunger of like, I want others to
experience him. Like, and then the rules and all
that all like fall into place. So yeah, I don't know who I
know. I'm a beloved daughter.
I've learned that recently. And so all the other kind of
titles and and things are all a part of it, but really like the
rootedness in just being a beloved daughter and learning
what that is like experientially, not just words.
So yeah, it's life changing when you actually experience what it
means to be a daughter or a son of God.
Yeah, and it's like not exhausting to try to be
something, right? Like just to receive an identity
is huge. It's it's changed my life in the
sense of like there's just not as much much pressure to perform
or pressure to impress, but you should kind of get to rest in
what Jesus has done and, and let him guide you.
So it's been a gift. In all your ministry, and I want
to get to the specific ministries, but in your ministry
time, because I'm thinking about the people that I've met over
the years. And when you talk about being a
child of God with you get to that, have that conversation.
How many people do you do you encounter who you know deeply
may be hungering for that, but they never have had that moment
of that just eternal peace in their soul that they are loved
by a Father? Yeah, sadly, I feel like with
how much, you know, I'm, I'm blessed to be able to go out and
share, you know, not only testimony, but the testimony of
Christ, right. And then how that's reflected in
my life. And I just find a lot of people
in that place of like just searching for their identity
and, and I think sometimes even more than searching for it,
trying to earn it, even in the Christian circles, like in our
Catholic circles and and non Catholic circles, just a lot of
striving, earning and deserving and feeling like it's kind of
conditional, right? When they do good, you know,
they're, they're now a beloved child of God.
But when they kind of fail or falter, it's like, you know,
they got to start over. And so it's been really kind of
it, it kind of pricks my own heart just to see how many
people, like I'm not the only one that struggled with with
this. And I think even outside of
Christian circles, like I get emails and messages all the time
from people that are like, I've been struggling with my identity
even outside of sexuality, right?
And so I think it's like an epidemic, to be honest, just in
our world. Like we were created to be
someone. And I think we've all tried to
become that instead of receive that from God.
So yeah, I see it a lot for sure.
I saw a survey last year that said that I think it was one in
four evangelical millennials identify.
They feel like their identity is the LGBTQ.
Yeah. Plus label.
Yeah, I would, I would say that that number is probably growing.
I don't want to like speak that over the generation, but unless
a unless a more rooted identity is presented, I think that's
what we do. Like if we don't know who we
are, we're going to go figure it out for ourselves.
And so you identify with your sexual desires, you identify
with the career you have, whatever it be.
And so but we were created to be seen.
We really were. And I think that's where
sometimes in the church, it's, it's hard because we, you know,
we want this life of humility, but we were created to be seen,
not so that we could have glory, but so God can be glorified
through us. And so I just, I don't know, I,
there's such a sensitivity in my heart for this generation and,
and for those within the LGBT community that they're like,
this is who I am. And to me, I'm the only thing I
can think is then you probably just haven't seen something
better, right. And so like how how well is the
church doing holding before for them this beautiful thing that
that they can receive and the world actually can't take from
them? And you don't have to like fight
for it and like defend, you know, you can just rest in it.
And so to me, it, it actually opens a place of compassion and
like a desire to want to hold this before them as like, hey, I
don't know what your life is. I haven't walked in your shoes.
But here's my story and here's what God showed me and what I
received and what I can rest in now.
So. We talked about this on the
first podcast we did a several months ago, but we didn't
actually talk about something I want to make sure we cover,
which is your book Restless Heart, which is that story of
seeking that ultimate rest of identity on God and what
attracted you to be part of that LGBT world?
And then what changed for you, You know, how you found
ultimately your trade identity and God.
We talked a lot about kind of the lead up and then we talked
about the beautiful message you shared you for everyone that our
identity is ultimately in God, but we didn't talk about those
moments of change for you. So I wanted to start there
because I even had some people saying like this is so powerful
and they wanted to read your book.
And I think some got your book, but there was like, what was the
what was the moment? I think it was clear why you
changed in the end, like God's love, but what were those events
in your life? So.
Yeah, I mean, there's a few, and I've said this, I actually just
did an interview not too long ago.
I said, honestly, I think the first event was probably my
baptism. I don't have a grid for when
that was because I was a little, you know, infant, but I believe
I did become a child of God at that point.
And there was a grace that is not something you can earn, but
something you receive. And so I, I believe the Lord
like no matter how far I ran from him, he's always pursued
me. It's just, it's so evident
people that have read the book, they're like, wow, you really
ran. But he ran faster, like, and you
know, and so just that pursuit. But something that always stands
out to me was when I turned, I think I was like 23 and I was
selling real estate and just super successful dating this one
guy. He was a football player and so
kind of had all the outside things together.
But I just remember there was a point when he told me that he
loved me and I was struggling with my own sexuality.
So already that was hard. I really liked the guy.
I thought I knew he was a great guy, but now he's telling me he
loves me. He didn't care about all the
material stuff that I had and the success in real estate.
So I'm like, what does this man love?
And it just kind of set me on this journey of like, OK, why am
what? What's lovable in me?
And when I asked him why he loved me, he's like, you
actually need to ask God because I love your heart and I'm like,
what's my heart? And he's like, ask God.
And so that night I laid on my bed by myself and I'm like, God,
show me my heart. And the details are in the book.
But God revealed the desire that actually, I, I don't know if it
got buried, got kind of stolen covered.
I don't know, but it was to go to Africa.
And so that was massively profound, not only the
revelation of asking God, then hearing a response and being
like, Oh, you really do kind of like respond.
You talk back like and so I ended up moving to Ethiopia.
It was just amazing. So God events that that brought
me there and LED me there, but that was profound in my journey
with God and really a journey into my own heart.
It started knocking down a lot of false things that I believed
about myself, you know, that I had to be, you know, make a
certain amount of money growing up in, you know, San Diego and
just kind of an image thing. And being in Ethiopia, I'm like,
my goodness, these kids have nothing, but they have so much
more than I do. Like I wanted what they had, and
yet the world said they had nothing.
And so it just started getting to deeper levels of my heart.
And I don't know, the Lord just moved in ways that only he can.
And I realize I'm like, wait a minute, I'm going to go back to
California and just make a bunch of money while these kids are
like suffering. I was like, I could probably do
something here. And so I sold my house, sold my
car, everything I had moved to Ethiopia.
And that was transformational. That was like a yes, I think
Mother Teresa says like the call within a call, right?
And so there's been a lot of different calls.
So that was impactful for sure. And it's been 17 years.
Ended up starting a nonprofit, had no grid for that, had no
desire for that. All he'd wanted to do was help
these kids that didn't have help.
There were little, little kids on the street, and God help me
to build something. That's where Unforgotten Faces
started. But I was still struggling with
my identity. I was still struggling with, I
would say, desires. When I would come back to the
States after living in Ethiopia to visit family, I remember
people would be like, oh, you're the missionary.
I'm like, no, no, like, I do missions, but no.
And so it was still like, I didn't know who I was, didn't
know the whole child of God thing.
Like, I'd heard that growing up. But I'm like, yeah, I got to
really do good to, like, keep that title.
And that's just too much. And I know I can't.
I honestly, I'll fail every time.
And so just this journey, but started dating women and
whatnot. And the book unpacks all the
details of that as well. And there was a lot of wrestles
there. There was a lot of hiding, a lot
of heartache, but it was October.
So there was the Ethiopia and then there was October 17th,
2014 that I will never forget. And is that is the night that I
said God, I am done being God. Like I'm messing my life up.
I'm messing other people's life up.
Like everything in my little wake, everybody's affected in a
negative way. And I got to experience my life
being a gift while I was in Ethiopia.
So I'm like, you didn't put me on this earth to like 'cause so
much turmoil and and hurt to myself and to others.
And so it was that night that I said, God you, I've, I've heard
you're good. I need you to show me like for
real, just tonight, whenever, but do it quick, like show me
that you're be you're better at being God that I am.
And and you know, I was in real estate.
So I was like, and I'm going to go on lease to own.
I'm like not all in yet. I'm like, but if you show me
that you are better at being God than I am, then you got me.
And I'm telling you Lila, every day since October 17th, 2014, he
has showed his faithfulness. Everything is one of the most
profound. I, I kind of consider that day
my birthday and it may be a strange way to to some, but it
is He marked me. I believe he marked me.
Or maybe I was willing to be marked finally.
And so Ethiopia was a marking October 17th, a marking and and
he's continued. I mean, my my side of the
journey has not been the most faithful, but his has and so and
then now leading me into another real profound one was called
into. I felt called into the
International House of Prayer in Atlanta to do an internship.
And that's where I really started learning about identity
as a beloved daughter and and really getting away from the
earnings, driving deserving and to rest in the finished work of
the cross, which now, of course involves our cooperation with
grace. It's not just like cool, just do
nothing now, like no, it's a love that stirs that you want to
give back. So those three things were
massively there's. So there's so much in between,
but those really had profound effect on my mind, on my heart,
on my, on my everything, to be honest.
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sevenweekscoffee.com. So you're at this rock bottom.
It's October 2014. You say God, I'm giving you your
moment to be God for me. I'm not going to be God, but you
got to do this for me. It's like you had this openness
because I'm sure life wasn't easy after that.
No, it maybe was harder in some ways.
It was, you know, there was a grace, to be honest, that I had
never experienced. Like those things were hard.
It was almost like the things that I was diving into in the
world just kind of started to lose their flavor.
And but it wasn't just like God was pulling me out of something.
He was drawing me into himself. And so though, yes, it was, it
was hard. I mean, I cried.
There's so much happening. And I just literally put it all
out in the book. Like I didn't hide because I was
like, people need to read this because they're probably going
to go through it. And and if we just make it sound
like it's all rainbows and lollipops, when you say, you
know, Jesus be Lord of my life, it's just, it's not true.
There's going to be challenges. But, you know, through it all,
there was always a grace. There was always a grace.
So even in my weakest moments, when I'm face down in my ground,
you know, on the floor weeping and just saying, I don't want to
do this, you know, I get up and I'm like, yes, I do.
Like there was just a, you know, but there was the realness.
It was raw. It was unfiltered, you know,
with the Lord. And so I was just very, very
honest with him on the struggles and where I needed him to be
Lord. Like I'm not strong enough to
not go back to old ways. So you've got to show me that
there's something better. And every time I prayed that he
brought himself in a different way.
And so I did taste something that was better.
It's almost like totally different, you know, But just
for kind of to be able to relate is like when you stop maybe
eating like not healthy stuff, but when you've replaced it with
something healthy, you know it's good for you.
But there's also it tastes good. It's much easier to let go of
what's not so good when you've got something better.
And that that's what he's continued to do is he's
continued to show me, but I have to trust him.
Like there's a open handedness and he removes but then he
places, right? So yeah, not not easy at all,
but 100% worth it. So I remember in the book you I,
if I remember correctly, it was such a powerful book.
When I first read it was I think a year and a half ago or maybe
two years ago now. I was like, I remember thinking
I need to talk, I need to get to talk to Kim at some point.
So this is so great to meet you in person.
But I, if I remember correctly, there was this in your journey.
You are not wanting to identify say like I am lesbian.
That was something that you just, you know, maybe it was
your faith background or just you didn't buy that kind of
label stuff. Well, to explain that more,
because I, I think for folks listening and I'm we're going to
get to later on in the interview questions that people had
because they put out, Hey, I'm interviewing Kim again and got a
ton of people with their questions about what many
things. But what does it mean for
someone who recognizes at this instinctual level, OK, this is
not my identity, like being LGBT versus those that really do, and
the differences maybe in how they can come out of that and
find true freedom in their identity as a son or daughter of
God? Yeah.
Does that question make sense? Oh.
For sure. Yeah.
So I think too, remembering that I grew up in church, I grew up
hearing about God, right. And so and I remember, like I
said, and and people might think I'm crazy, but it's OK.
I'm used to that. And it's thank God they don't
define me. But like I said when I was
baptized, I believe there's been a grace over my life to not
receive what is not true. OK.
And so like. That's a gift.
You didn't believe the lie? Yeah, even though you might be
tempted to still kind of live not in the truth.
Even though everything in my life showed me otherwise, there
was something deep down which I I'm not going to take credit for
now. We can respond to it or not.
And most of my life I didn't respond to it right, But when I
did, my goodness. So I think for me when, when
that grace is present and I knew, so yes, I was dating
women. I, I did know that it was wrong.
That didn't mean I liked the truth.
But ultimately, like I always knew I had priests.
I had a Catholic counselor that was telling me it's OK.
But deep, deep down, and it wasn't like, oh man, it's
because gay has a negative connotation.
I didn't, as I just said, I didn't receive the title
missionary. And in Christian circles, that's
like, that could be a badge of honor.
But even then I was like, no, that's just not who I am.
It's yes, it's what I'm doing. And so for me, when people
started calling me gay, I'm like, no, I really am dating
women. I'm not going to pretend like
I'm not. But it's not who I am.
Just like, I'm not a missionary. And so I believe it was grace,
but I also believe I was raised up to know what was true, right?
And so when you do know truth, even when something looks
appealing and you even want to receive it, you know it.
It's just hard when you know different.
You know, you, you and, and my family wasn't the type that like
pushed me out when I was in the lifestyle.
They did not ever celebrate what God himself didn't celebrate.
But they never, I was not outcasted.
I was not, you know, and so it wasn't like, oh, it's just the
pressure of the family. I'm like, my family told me a
lot of things that I didn't do, you know what I mean?
And so this was not just this like just I got to be obedient.
I mean, if you read the book, there's not a lot of of
obedience in that, but I, I really think for people who you,
what is truth? I mean, we're like today
everybody says, oh, truth is whatever you kind of want it to
be. That's not true.
Like it might sound good, but I lived that way and my life was a
mess when there was no real truths like rooted, grounded,
not just what I want, what I feel or what other people want
or feel. There's no grounding.
Like we weren't created by God to be God, you know, and I
ultimately just always kind of knew that though I wanted to try
it out and I tried it out for sure.
So my thing that people would be like, hey, do you want to hear?
Like could you possibly imagine? See, because so many people are
like, well, I just don't want to follow all those rules.
That just sounds, it sounds like it's man made just so man can
control you. And I'm like, OK, why would I
freely choose that when I was in the lifestyle, doing whatever I
wanted, still loved by my family, still loved by my
friends, loved probably by the community even and more, right,
like celebrating it. Why would I choose this other?
Like there's a real experience there.
And that's where some people are like, I'm surprised you don't
get beat up when you do interviews.
I'm like, I'm sharing my life. I'm sharing my experience.
I'm not telling you you have to do it.
But hey, I mean, how many times have you went and seen a movie
and you're like, you call everybody, you know, you sound
up blast, you know, on social media and you're like, go see
this movie. That's all I'm doing.
I'm like, there's something else out there.
Y'all are you? Do you want to try it?
Do you want to see a loving, tender, merciful father that's
got good plans for you? Right?
And, and I just don't know how much he's presented that way.
So I think that's why a lot of people are like, this is good,
this is stable, this is unchanging.
And it's sad because even in the LGBT community, you know, you
can say it's unchanging, but I know many people take God out of
the equation. These aren't Christian people
that ended up no longer having same sex desires.
In the LGBT in the. LGBT so so who are you now?
Like in a world that's constantly changing, we are
seeking something that is consistent, something that is
unchanging. And we know that the word of God
says he is, he is, he was, and he always will be.
He is the unchanging we're actually seeking.
It really is. And then when we now our
identities are tied to him, guess what?
Now our identity is unchanging, but I just don't know how good
of a job. I mean, I didn't remember that
growing up, you know? And so I grabbed for what I
could to feel confident, to feel wanted, to feel seen, to feel
like someone. What do you what do you say to
people like the counselor that you had, the Catholic counselor
who is saying to you, no, God is accepting of being in the LGBT
lifestyle and it's OK, It's all OK.
And unfortunately just be monogamous.
And even like, I think it was Saddleback Church here, you
know, so it's not just, you know, this confusion in some
Catholic circles, although the Catholic teaching is very clear.
But I think there's also confusion certainly in the
evangelical world. I know Saddleback here.
There was a viral clip of a pastor and his wife saying,
trying to give advice, I think a lesbian or a gay couple and
saying, well, I don't know, would we tell you to divorce
because the God hates divorce, you know, so, so I think there's
confusion everywhere and like that.
That's what happens when we become God.
And so like that Catholic counselor that you mentioned,
what's the message to people who say I am following God, I am
seeking God sincerely, but I'm still justifying the LGBT
lifestyle and identity. Well, I think sometimes we look,
we've been given reason, like logic and feelings and desires.
And I think sometimes we try to just stay in one of those lanes
instead of realize that there God actually created us to to
not ignore either. And I just feel like sometimes
we just ignore logic, right? And so for me, when I went in
and I was seeking help, I was like, OK, I don't want to just
go to anyone. I want to go to a Catholic
because I knew the teachings of the church.
So I'm like, but I want someone to walk this out with me, right?
Like help me, you know, so I hired this counselor.
And so for me, when when he started to kind of affirm a gay
identity and like, well, you know, just being monogamous and
this that I'm like, hold on a minute.
I came in for truth, right? And I want you to deal with my
feelings and desires, but like, don't throw either one of those
out. And I felt like he was throwing
out truth because I was seeking someone who was rooted in the
Catholic teachings, which are rooted in the Bible at right.
And so for me, I, I just couldn't.
And he's like, well, you don't really understand the
scriptures. And I was like, OK, so I'm just
going to invite logic in for a second.
So you're telling me, and mind you, I'm 18 years old at the
time to a, you know, a counselor who's got every degree on the
wall. And I'm like, so you're telling
me that I don't understand the scriptures in the only place
that I struggle. So I struggle with homosexuality
and the scriptures make tons of sense except for there I was
like, or are you saying I'm not going to understand scripture at
all because he's saying, you know, homosexuality is not what
it was then when they were writing about it to what it is
now. And I'm like, but God's word
says that he was, is and always will be that his word will stay
firm. So I'm like, if that's wrong,
then what else? So you're like just pulling at
threads here. So you're going to stand firm on
this in whatever scripture being true.
But the one that I struggle with, that one's where it's Gray
and like, you're OK. I was like, that sounds amazing
to my feelings and desires, but it sounds a little too
convenient. And my logic won't allow me to
receive that because if it's either all true or it's all not.
So if I'm going to really live my life by this, I'm all in or
I'm all out. Like, let's just be real.
I don't think this is a buffet and just, you know, do this.
And so he, there's not really much you can say.
Later. Come to find out, his sister was
in a union with another woman. And so I have a feeling that if
he was going to share that truth with me, he would have to bring
that to the dinner table around his family.
I don't know for sure, but I found that out later.
I thought he was probably wrestling with that, you know,
on a personal level. So which doesn't make it OK, but
because truth, if truth is going to be truth, it applies whether
I'm talking to you, whether I'm at a university that is non
Christian, whether I'm at the gas station.
And I love that. I love that I don't have to
create truth. I just choose to agree to it and
humble myself and say, God, you do know more than I do.
I mean, I it's like creation telling the creator I'm smarter
than you. I mean, that's just not logical
to me. And maybe maybe I'm not that
smart, but you know, I if my. Actually smart, that's why.
Yeah, but like my toaster, if my toaster is like, Nah, that I
know what to do. No, you don't.
You were created just just bowing humility to the one that
loves you and created you out of that love.
And I'm telling you, it would be so much easier if we do that.
It takes a lot of surrender to say, OK, I'm not in, I'm not in
control, I'm not in charge. Do you think that the fear of
surrender is actually what sort of letting people kind of self
deceive a little bit? And I think self deception,
obviously today doesn't just exist on sexuality issues.
It exists on everything, you know, everything regarding
marriage to like, OK, rationalizing, you know,
divorce, you know, rationalizing, you know, any,
any falling away from God, Our power to rationalize and self
deceive. It scares me because I think
about that. I'm like, I have the same power
as anyone else for self deception.
So we all have this power to just trick ourselves into
thinking that we are not just that we are God, but sometimes
even that God approves of this way or how I'm living.
I think deep, deep down there is a lack of peace in that.
But people can cover that up with the noise of the.
World. And then you rally people around
you that agree, right? Some of my favorite
conversations, I love this, right?
Because we we agree to what is true.
But I actually love the conversations where someone
doesn't agree with what I believe is true, right, Because
those are times is I just don't want to hear an echo of my own
thing, right? Of what what I root and ground
my life in which is is Jesus, right?
And so I love those conversations that aren't.
But I think a lot of times we do drown ourselves out.
I think that's why the LGBT community is so tight too,
right? Because if we just surround
ourselves with everybody that agrees with us, we don't have to
actually hear that still small voice that I believe everyone
hears. There's no one that was not
created by God. There's just not, there's no one
that's not created. And so his, his voice resounds.
They may not know whose it is. They may not know what's going
on, but there's something because he loves them because he
loves them and love doesn't give up.
It's not going to give up. And so we drown it out, whether
it's alcohol, whether it's drugs, whether it's just
surround myself with everybody that just agrees.
But deep down, and and I'll speak from my own experience,
deep down inside, no matter how how much I did all of that,
which I've done that voice when I lay in bed at night, I
couldn't, couldn't stop. And it wasn't condemning me.
It was calling me. It was beckoning me, but I just
didn't want to listen. I didn't want to give up.
And it was fear. You nailed it.
It was fear. What's my life going to be like?
I don't want to be Mother Teresa.
I don't want to be this single person.
She is great. But like, you know, when you're
19 and even now I'm like, you know, and so in that, but, but I
think that's The thing is like fear.
But the Scripture says that perfect love casts out fear.
See, so I think part of what we're missing here is people
experiencing God's perfect love. It says that that's what casts
out fear. So fear of right, if I'm not in
control, what's going to happen? Well, guess what?
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people in my life over the years and some of them I've tried, you
know, who've been involved in LGBT stuff or whatever.
And one in particular I'm thinking of, you know, we, we've
had these conversations about it and I tried, you know, to be
like that loving, accepting friend that's not accepting
necessarily of these choices they're making.
But I discovered that at certain point there was kind of a
doubling down with my friends. And at a certain point, it's
like they didn't even want to engage anymore because it's like
they're like, you can go talk to this other person if you want
to, but I don't really want to just talk about this.
And it's like, well, can I improve how I talk about it and,
you know, change this? But at the end of the day, it
was just like, I don't want to hear it anymore.
What's been your experience? Have you come across that?
What do you do if you come across that, especially for
people listening? I mean, maybe you just love and
pray and there's not much much you can do beyond that.
I think a lot of times when, and you know, I can't speak for
everyone, but what in my experience, when somebody is
just kind of done, I feel like sometimes they just feel
threatened, the very thing that they're holding on to and is
precious to them and maybe defining them you're trying to
take away. And so that's why for me, I feel
like it's instead of like, Hey, I want to, I want to take this
from you. I'm like, Hey, this is what I've
experienced. And then like through their own.
That's why I really try to stick with sharing my testimony,
right, Not preaching at you, but like, Hey, here's what's
happened with me and continuing to happen.
And so and then some people, I mean, I have a family member
that said until you stop sharing and spreading lies and hatred, I
never want to hear from you. And this is this was a cousin of
mine that I was actually the closest with growing.
Recently. Oh yeah, wow.
And said never. That's kind of what happened to
me to some degree, because they're saying by you speaking
out against the LGBT identity, you're attacking me.
And I'm like, well, I love you. I'm not intending to attack you.
And but it doesn't matter because this is what you're
saying on social media. You know anything critical is an
attack. Anything that's not in line with
what they're living and if you're not supporting it and in
any way speaking against it and and I could understand that and
I I'm going to choose to honor what she's asking.
And that was so hard to send a reply back to my cousin who I do
love. She may not believe that, but I
do love her. I mean, she was my best friend
growing up when we were little, all of that.
And so for me, I, I pray knew we were just doing an intercession
set at International House of Prayer the other night and I was
on my face crying for her. Like, Lord, just just show her
how much you love her, you know, because I think she's just
completely distanced herself from God.
And you know, because God means I've got to change.
If I'm with God, God means he doesn't like me the way I am.
If I'm with this God you're talking about, right.
And so it's, it's threat after threat after threat.
And so I just was praying and I'm like, Lord, and it doesn't
have to be me. But can you show up in her life
like through someone else, that someone that she's willing to
hear it from? Not so that she won't be gay.
It's not about this. It's that she'll encounter the
one that she was created for, that she will actually like.
The scriptures say it like return to your first love.
He is our first love. But so many of us don't know
that. We haven't experienced that.
And and so to me, I think you get to a place when someone cuts
you out, you honor it and you pray.
Nobody can ever stop you from praying.
You don't need to voice memo them all your prayers like trust
God. Don't do that, actually.
Don't do that if. They're asking for first space.
Yeah, just honor that, you know, and and think about your own
situation, like if somebody came to you and was like, hey, you're
not supposed to be married, you know, like the person that you
love and have want a family with or have a family with, you're
not supposed to love them. And so like they voice memo you
all the time about how you'd be like, just please stop, Please
stop. Or maybe you'd freak out on him.
I probably would, you know. And so we just have to honor
where people are AT and then just really trust that God's
going to do what he's going to do.
And you just pray and like Lord, and it's not.
I think that's where we get to is we always want to draw
someone out of something. But I just wonder if we actually
just maybe more shared what you could be drawn into.
They'll walk out of something. Does that make sense?
Like if something's more appealing and, and we can't do
that, it's Holy Spirit that convicts.
We're not meant to convict people.
We are meant to share truth. We are not meant to back down.
So I'm not saying just, oh, whatever you do, but be honest.
But when they say stop, just stop.
You said something really interesting earlier, which is,
you know, they have to see something better, You have to
show something better. And the only way to ultimately
authentically show something better is to be receiving it
yourself from God. Amen.
You can't give what? You don't have of it yourself.
And that takes a tremendous amount of trust and surrender.
Because what you also said earlier, which I thought was
such a such a great point, is like, there's a fear of holiness
as we might perceive it, like the Mother Teresa, Holiness the
martyr. Holy.
Yeah. I was reading about, I know I
was reading about the the Uma family from Poland.
I don't know if you saw this come out a few days ago, but
this whole family, you know, including the children murdered
by the Nazis for housing Jews, this Catholic family in Poland,
and now they're all being beatified, including the unborn
baby who was killed. So it's like an incredibly
powerful story, but it's also like, would I have the courage,
would I have the courage to endanger my family to house
those that are being attacked, endangering the lives of my own,
but they are being beatified for it was like, do I even have the
courage to even get close to that kind of that kind of love?
And for what reason? And for what reason?
See, because just to die, to die, not to die for the one who
died for you, who you've experienced and encountered his
love and you'll do anything. Think about your own husband.
When you've received love, the instant is to give it back like
a pure love, right? And so even for me, I'm like,
that's why I'm like, I don't want to be a Mother Teresa.
I've got to work for this guy, this guy being God, right?
Like now I'm going to put on this clothes the same thing
every day and just work for him every day.
Like, Nah, I'm good, right? And so, and I was raised in the
church. Imagine those who weren't how
they, you know, the perception of God.
And it's no new thing that Satan's doing.
He did it in the garden. He's doing it now, right?
Just twist the goodness of God. Just make him look like he's not
good so that people won't be with him.
And so it's the same same schemes he's doing now.
And so to me, it's like, gosh, we have so much fear to let go
because we don't know the one who's asking us to hand it over.
We don't really know him. And I know I talk a lot about
that, but it's like foundational.
It really is. It's relationship.
It's not a dead just set of
rules. It's relational.
And so if all they know is rules and I'm not allowed to be gay or
I'm not allowed to do this or I'm not allowed to do that,
that's why I said just hold before them.
Beauty. I remember even with my mom when
I was trying to help her eat healthy, right?
She's like, no, you're not going to take the brownies from me.
I'm like, no, no, mom, I'm not trying to take anything.
Look what I have for you. And I gave her something else
and she's like, whoa, that's good.
Guess what? She was full.
So she didn't eat the other thing.
And then she wanted more of that.
And so I think it's really, instead of just taking something
from someone holding before them what God is offering.
How can we help people encounter the sweetness of God?
Be it, I mean be it, right, he says.
Taste and see that I am good. How can we be the sweetness of
God? Get with him, get with him, be
in his presence. You learn the heart of God.
Let's not, and I'm not saying now all the rules go out the
window, but learn the heartbeat before you learn the words.
Learn his heartbeat. Rest on his chest, John the
Beloved, right? He rested on Jesus chest not
because he was homosexual. No, there was an intimacy there.
There was a closeness there. He heard the beat of his heart
and then he could be the beat of his heart.
He was not arrogant. He didn't say I'm the beloved.
He knew he was loved. We have to know that we are
loved to be able to tell people how loved they are.
But there's something that's required for what you're saying
that it's a very basic thing. It's what you did on that day in
October of 2014, which is that you let him in.
You gave him, you gave him a minute, a moment, because if
we're so noisy and so distracted and so busy and so we're, we're
running basically, but, and that's, that's prayer.
That's prayer. People think about prayer.
OK, I'm going to sit down and have this like big formal prayer
moment. It's like no prayer can be a
moment in the car, your worst breakdown saying God, if you're
out there, hear me, be with me now, or it can be anywhere.
Whatever you're doing in your life, you know, it can be as you
fall asleep. But prayer is that moment of
yes, God, I'm here, I am. Yeah, and being real.
Being real. See, that prayer that I prayed
was real. God, I I can't give up what I'm
doing unless you show me something better.
See. But I think in order to do that,
we have to be willing. I saw what my idols were to
whatever degree I could. And I said these things are not
really working anymore, but they're better than nothing.
So can you show me that you're better?
And so I think whatever we're at, it's this is not just LGBTQ,
right? There's idols within marriage,
Christian heterosexual marriage. And within ministry, within
ministry, because your idol can be your ministry, absolutely it
can your idol can be something very good a job usually even
your own kids. Look at Abraham and Isaac.
We just talked to a parent last week and she was a train wreck.
And I mean that with a heart that hurts for her because her
son came out and he said, mom, I'm I'm gay.
Her rock solid faith crumbled. She didn't even want to pray.
She said she was staring at the wall.
She would come home and just stare at the wall.
She said, I I don't even want to do my devotional.
I don't want anything. And actually it was a friend of
mine that was like, it might sound like God's revealing an
idol in your life, the very Son he blessed you with.
You've lifted above God if you can't even pray for him.
And that was not in condemnation or shame, but I just think we've
like when I'm in Ethiopia, I see radical faith because they don't
have anything else, right? When you don't know where your
next meal is coming from, you don't have a 4O1K to dip into,
you don't have an insurance plan, and your kid just hurt
themselves or is coughed for a month, right?
Like you rely on God. I think there's so many things
we rely on and we thank God for it, right?
We're like, thank you God for this, thank you God for that.
Amen to that. But I'm talking like October
17th, 2014. I needed God.
I didn't just want him, I needed him.
Everything I had gone to was breaking right If they call it
rock bottom, whatever it be. So like are we at the bottom of
ourselves yet? And, and I say that I'm still
discovering the bottom of myself.
I I need Jesus just as much as I did on October 17th, 2014.
I need him just as much today to not become self-righteous,
arrogant, prideful, thinking I know better, thinking that my
story is everybody's story. Me, me, me right, pride, the
beginning of the fall. And so in that, like, are we
desperate for him or have we allowed these things to kind of
just comatose, right? We're just kind of going along
and we pray the prayers and and the prayers are good, but I'm
talking about a real need for him.
And I know that I need him because I, you know, people will
ask. So like, you know, Paul and his
affliction, you know, take this from me, God.
And what was God's response? My grace is sufficient.
Do we count on God? See, I don't date women anymore,
not because I'm, I would go to hell, right?
If I continue to, it's not out of the fear of hell.
Hell is real. But I'm not dating women because
I've experienced the love that's greater and I've experienced the
strength from him, not from myself.
I tried to do it in my own strength before.
So like when we realize, my goodness, everything I need help
with is found in him, he's going to become the source.
And so we could go on for a long time about that and I'll stop
there, but I just don't know how desperate we are anymore.
It's so, so beautifully, said Kim.
And that and it's a reminder for me and it's like anybody can do
it. That moment of rawness.
If you're struggling to pray, you're struggling with anything.
I'm just saying here I am. Lord help me Jesus, I trust in
you. Jesus help.
Me. I mean, I can't do it I.
Can't do it, Jesus. And you just.
Oh, and then it's amazing how life changes now.
It doesn't look or feel the way that maybe we think it's going
to look or feel, but it leads ultimately to the peace that
only can only come from God. It's like peace that brings that
It can bring joy, the real joy. Absolutely.
And I think that's where also, like you said, how do we bring
Jesus? Are we miserable?
Right? Because like if your life is
miserable, I probably don't want what you have when you live a
life of joy now, joy even in suffering, joy even in pain in
trial, I'm talking about your joy is, and this is something
I'm praying for. I'm like God, that scripture
that says the joy is in my salvation, that's not on this
earth right here. So may my joy be rooted in
eternity with you. That's the martyr's joy, which
is so. And I'm praying for it.
I don't have it. Yeah, but.
But ask him, he says. Ask.
You'll receive seek. You'll find.
He doesn't make it hard. But Satan just gets in there.
And God doesn't really want to do that.
God's not for you. He's against you.
It's twisting of Scripture. So tell me about Rainbow
Revival. Yeah, you are doing this very
special thing with Freedom Marches.
You've done one in Lai. Think there's going to be 1 in
Dallas soon? October 21st.
What is Rainbow Revival? What is this movement that's
really growing? It's growing.
Yeah. The Lord.
It is a group of people, myself being one of them, that have
come out of the LGBT community and into a surrendered life in
Christ. This is not out of the LGBT
community to be mad at people or tell people they're wrong.
It's a radical, laid down life for the Lord and it looks
different. Some have gotten married right
into heterosexual marriages and have children.
Some of us feel a call to singleness for the sake of the
Kingdom, but we go around and we, we just intercede as a
board. We intercede and say, God, where
do you want to go? Where do you want us to go and
share? You know, you, you know very
well pro-life marches, pro-life, you know, rallies and things
like that. I'm like, my goodness, the
founder was a dear friend of mine.
She was like, and, and some other people were talking one
day and the Lord just said, like, my goodness, people March
for everything. Can you March for the freedom
that I've given you and continue to show you, you know, this is a
this is not a one and done. This is a continued journey with
the Lord, right? It's a relationship.
And so it's constantly going. So we go into different cities
as the Lord leads us. We do praise and worship.
We do testimonies woven in of all different stories.
I mean radical, I mean people who were literally some have
gone through the surgeries, through trans, you know,
transitioning, transitioning surgeries and then detransition.
Some did not even fully detransition, but they are heart
has been like seared and then slowly but surely the exterior
stuff changes. But God's concerned about the
heart. So we have testimonies beyond
that. You're literally, my mom went to
one of the events and she's like, it is still one of the
most profound experiences that I've had hearing these radical
testimonies and seeing people literally like she, she
described it is like seeing people like David dance before
the Tabernacle just unfiltered, like unto the Lord, like have
really encountered love. And so, yeah, we'll go in and we
we share testimony, we worship, we have prayer tents set up that
if people want to just connect, be prayed with, it's not about
Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
It's not a negative message. It's true, it's real.
The word of God says that testimony is prophecy into
someone else's life. And so it's free to March FM
standing for like hear this like a dial on the radio FM AM.
And so the kind of slogan for freedom March is hear the sound
of freedom. And so just as testimony goes
forth, as worship and praise goes forth, we've had, I've, I,
we could do a whole podcast on just the stories of how people
have drawn in. So we go to the public square.
So we'll go in Dallas, we're going to be at Clyde Warren
Park. We rent out the whole park.
It's free for whoever wants to come.
And we just have, it's a, it's a Jesus festival kind of thing,
kind of like what happened with the Jesus revolution and with
the hippies. We're starting to see that
there's a prophetic word that has been, it was prophesied
many, many years ago that there would be 100,000 plus coming out
of the LGBT community into Christ.
Not just out of, but into that they will be evangelists,
preachers, teachers and so. Are you seeing that now?
Absolutely. Well, we're seeing the first
fruits of that in a, in a big way I I've seen before and it's
beautiful. Like those who have gone before
us and those who will come after us, right.
It's not about 1 person about Jesus, the one person, but what
he's doing. But I absolutely believe that we
will see something like we have never seen.
I believe that there are so many sons and daughters in the LGBT
community that are going to radically, radically testify to
the goodness of Jesus Christ, and they will be a big part of
this huge, I believe, revival that is coming.
So one of the things I've noticed about Rainbow Revival,
well, it's easy to notice. It's called Rainbow Revival.
And, you know, there's this very colorful, beautiful
presentation. I mean, I think that's one of
the maybe attractions of the way LGBTQ is branded today is that
it's branded in rainbows and so much positivity and so much
light. And, you know, now if you go to
a, you know, a Pride parade, you're going to see some dark
stuff, too. It's not like it's all that.
But typically in media, that's how it's very inviting.
Very inviting. Yeah.
So what is? What are the differences?
Yeah, so Rainbow. Between, you know, a a Freedom
March and a Pride parade. Yeah, so rainbow revival, we do
use the rainbow. We use the seven colored
rainbow, not six. So the LGBT community will use
six colors and we won't unpack all that, but we can kind of see
what 6 sometimes symbolizes right in Scripture.
So we what? Color was taken out I.
Think it was indigo. I think it was indigo.
And so we do joyfully and humbly, not pridefully, wave the
flag, the seven colored flag, because it is.
And that's actually our slogan of rainbow revival is Remember
the Promise, because that ties to Genesis when when God
stretched the bow across the sky and said, I will never flood the
earth again. It was his covenant between his
people, right? And we are his people because of
what Jesus has done. We've been grafted in.
And so in that it's remember the promise, prepare the way.
And so the prepare the way is for the second coming of Christ.
And people would be like, oh, you know, you've Jesus people.
You think he's coming back, He's coming back and he's coming back
for a bride. Are we ready?
Are we love sick? Are we wanting him?
Are we longing our hearts longing for the lover of our
soul? And so Rainbow Revival, we stand
in humility and we take pride in what Christ has done, but we are
humbled because it wasn't in our doing.
It's in our surrender to his love that is actually re
rebirthed who we are, right? And so we stand and we want to
invite others to that just to just to listen.
Doesn't mean you have to do it. And I think that's thing you
asked me earlier, like, do you get a lot of good kickback?
Or do you know, people kind of tell you to be quiet?
I just share my story if you want to listen.
Amen. If you don't, there's like 1000
other channels you can listen to.
Nobody's forcing you to listen to this, right?
And so in that, that's how we stand as Rainbow Revival.
We're not going to go into your space and now start preaching.
No, we're going to rent out. We're going to pay more money
than we have. It's a nonprofit and we don't
have money. None of us get paid, but we
raise the money and we rent it out and whoever wants to come, I
mean, we open it up. We don't hide what we're doing
when we're doing it and so. Do you go to pride parades?
Is that or have a booth or something just to raise
awareness? Yeah, we might end up doing that
because the same thing where people can come right and be
prayed with and just be loved on, right.
And and to see that from a Christian standpoint, I think is
not sometimes as common. I personally haven't gone.
I'm not opposed to it, but I want to be led to that too.
I know a lot of my friends, one of the the founders, MJ Nixon,
she used to go to the pride festivals and just pray for
people, ask the Lord for prophetic words and and just to
love on people with the love of Christ and always point back at
him, right. So that it's seed.
See, I think so many time we don't want it.
We don't want to just throw seed.
We want to see the fruit. We're like, no, we got it.
If this has to happen right now, but we are we are meant to throw
seed and and God grows it. And I think it's one of the
scriptures, like some sow seeds, some get to water, and some get
to see the harvest. Get to harvest, which is a cool
job, but they're all they're all necessary.
All necessary. What you said earlier was so
interesting about just the like this.
So it's like overt spiritual symbolism at play here.
Even just between Rainbow Revival and the Pride movement.
You know, you mentioned the flag on the Pride movement.
They've removed one of the seven colors, so there's only 6 and
the connotation of the number six.
And then Rainbow Revival has the full flag.
And being the fall of man. And six, being the fall of man
and the flag represents God's promise to not destroy the world
for its sin. And then, you know, the flood,
Noah's flood. And then in addition, the word
pride, you know, pride, the seven deadly sins.
And pride cometh before the fall.
But your messages have pride in the glory of God, not in your
own. What do you think about all of
that? Even obvious symbolism I feel I
mean. Well, I we're in a spiritual
battle and whether we want to admit it or not, it's like you
can stand in the middle of a tornado and be like, I'm not in
a tornado. You are, you know, and you're
going to unfortunately find out about.
To hit your head. Exactly.
Like there goes the cow, you know what I mean?
Like, so to me, we are in a spiritual battle.
I know many people don't believe that.
And I'm like, just look around, OK, Just look around at what's
happening in the world. We are.
And so to me, it just shows. And, and that's where I think we
have to be careful because a lot of times we will now point the
finger at the person and forget that what Scripture says, that
this is a battle not between flesh and blood, but between
spirit and principality, right? And so we have to remember the
enemy is not the person in front of us.
The person might be operating in the enemy, the work of the
enemy, but they're not our enemy.
That person was still created by God and God wants them.
Whether or not they're going to give their life to God is is not
my job. But did I display the goodness
of God, how much he wants them to turn from our ways to trust
God? Right.
And so in that I do I see the parallels for sure, you know,
and we didn't create the seven colored flag.
So it's like this was already in existence.
We just well, that's the flag we're.
Going to win, yeah. You know what I mean?
Like, you can't, you can't deny that.
And so for me, I think it's a great opportunity, though, where
people are like some people within the LGBT community, they
don't even know like, whoa, I thought there was always six
colors in the rainbow. No, such a great conversation
piece. We need to start talking more.
That's like earlier in the interview I said, I love having
conversations with people that we do.
We are on the same page, but I really love those conversations
where we're not so that hopefully we can both ask God to
help us humble ourselves and just to learn because I'm
telling you, the church, we can learn from the LGBT community.
And some people freak out. They're like, I'm shutting you
off right now. I'm like, hold on, hold on.
They know how to do community. They know how to welcome people,
right, come as you are. And we know Jesus says that come
as you are, he will transform us.
His very presence will transform us.
But do we, does the church really have the like, come as
you are? Or is it like, hey, come as we
need you to be, come as you need to look per what we want, you
know, and and I Father Mike Schmidt says it right.
I think it's in the catechism. Like God loves us so much,
they'll meet us where where we're at, but he loves us too
much to keep us there, right? And so there's a lot though.
There is a massive spiritual war going on.
There always has been. And I believe it's going to get
heavier and hotter and we can see it.
I think this is where the banner of love needs to fly.
And love. Love is not love.
God is love. God is love.
And the love of God, the banner of love In Scripture, it says
that his banner over us is love. Are we waving that banner?
And so that's what we do at Rainbow Revival.
That's what I pray I do every day.
Whether. Do you have that slogan God is
Love? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Perfect. Yeah, I'm not really into the
social media thing, but a lot of people, you know, tag love is
love. I'm like, I never said if
somebody said like, what's the color red?
And I'm like, red is red, they'd be like, that doesn't make again
logic, right? So I would never put a bumper
sticker on my car that says cat is cat, right?
But a lot of people. Woman is not woman today.
That's what I. Mean like well when we remove
logic. Right, right there was, I was
asked to comment on this story recently and I was like, it was
just overwhelmingly dark, but I wanted to share it because it's
connected to all of this. But there is this man who was
identifying as a woman, trans woman I think is the title then
for that. But anyway, so he's trying to go
through, he wants to have the first successful uterus change,
he was saying, and be the first man, formerly man, now woman to
become pregnant in order, he said.
And this was like a viral TikTok in order to be able to have the
first trans abortion. And you know, I remember looking
at that and just seeing like, this is like the like this is
where it can spiral to. And this is the kind of meeting
of the logical conclusion of like abortion culture with sort
of sex, sexuality, confusion and identity culture like marry,
marry together in this, you know, horrible harmony.
Do you when you see stuff like that or you encounter it?
And again, like anything could go viral on social media, like
the darkest stuff, right? But what it, what, how do you,
what's your kind of take on that when you see that?
Even when you just first said that, my heart just hurt.
It is just dead. I'm like, what happened?
What happened? Like to even want that?
Who didn't see him? And again, I'm not minimizing
evil, but like the reality for that person.
Right, because he had a real, I think he, from what I saw, had
this extreme hatred and and anger towards people that he
perceived as judging him. So he was going to get this
abortion out of. Spite to prove.
To the people that he saw as judging him.
Yeah, so I think there's a lot and I don't know, I don't know
this person, but the first thing I, I felt was hurt for him.
Like what happened? I mean, think about Hitler when
we look at the back story. I don't know if you watch the
Ray Charles me, there's so much when you watch the back story of
someone's life, you see where evil entered in.
I mean, nefarious, that movie that came out, that guy that was
possessed. I don't know if you saw that,
but my goodness, watching that and seeing like we want to get
mad at the person when you're like, no, in Jesus name, that
spirit needs to go. They were once a child and they
were once a child that probably was really hurt.
Absolutely. And they grew up to keep
hurting, and then they started hurting other people.
Hurt people, hurt people. Healed people heal people.
All right, so we got questions on YouTube and I wanted to share
them because I promised people I would.
So let's do a couple people are really excited to be able to ask
you, so I'm going to start for a few.
This is one that just said, how do you respond to?
We kind of touched on this, but we'll just do it more directly.
How do you respond to children and teenagers who identify as
part of the LGBT TQ Plus community without severing the
all important trust that children should have in their
parents? So this is particularly younger
kids. I think they're asking about
what do I do if my kid comes home from school and he's he or
she is identifying that way. Yeah, I think when it comes to
little kids, remembering your role as a parent, like if my I
don't have children, but like if my nephew came home and he's
like, so tonight I'm going to eat Snickers, I'd be like, no,
you're not actually. And do you know why?
And I want to tell you why, right?
And so I think sometimes we're so easy to lay rules down, but
there's not like little people, all people, we all want to know.
And so to actually just have conversation or ask questions
before you even lay something down, like, hey, you know what?
What makes you feel like you are attracted the opposite sex?
Like when did this start for you?
Explore. Explore and just listen.
Just listen, right? We OK, but I know the answer.
I understand. But do you want to tell them the
answer or do you want that answer to actually come up
within them? And that's when it becomes real,
right? That's when it's going to become
real is when someone realizes it for themselves.
Oh my gosh, I actually feel this way because the little kid told
me that I was gay. And then I didn't know because I
don't really like girls right now.
That's OK. You're 8.
You shouldn't, you know what I mean or whatever.
Not you shouldn't, but you know what I'm saying?
Like just explore with them, talk to him, listen, ask
questions. What did Jesus do?
He asked a lot of questions. Self revelation comes in.
I don't mean. Even though he knew all the
answers, he knew every answer, but he was doing it for the sake
of the person, which is exactly what you're saying.
They need to go through the process of understanding
themselves. Yeah.
And and somebody could take that and just, oh, so they're going
to do whatever. No, but it's a process.
I mean, if if my mom would have maybe done that with me, like,
hey, why do you feel that way? Not just come quickly with an
answer. You know what, I'm not blaming
her anything, but we're all learning, right?
But I don't think we let, I don't think we walk with people
enough, even our own little people that go.
Well, it can be scary, I think for a parent and for anyone just
as like, where's this walk going to take me?
And what if I'm unprepared? And that's the thing.
It's like even if you don't know what to say with the information
you're given, you can. It's an ongoing relationship.
Pray, talk to a counselor, talk to the guidance, but you know,
have the courage to dive. In absolutely and stay in right
and not just want a quick fix and then also as they're
struggling with that. That's a great time.
Like, Hey, do you think God says that about you like bring Jesus
into this, you know, when he met so and so in the Bible, like how
do you think that person felt, you know, and, and make him real
for the person you're raising up, right?
Like the I the chosen, I know people have different things,
but that kind of reveals the realness of Jesus that he felt
he, you know, and so I think as you're you're asking these
questions, you can gently bring Jesus into it, but not right
away, not to, you know, put him on defense, but just this
incorporating and pray ask Holy Spirit, how do I walk through
this? I don't think we Bray enough.
Like so true. Guide me, you know.
So true. Here's another one and I've
heard this question before. I think it was even comments on
the YouTube video we did before, but the podcast we did before.
But what do you think causes homosexual desires to originate?
Does it stem from inherent proclivities towards certain
types of sin due to fall familiar issues, abuse, other
factors? There's actually several other
at least another two questions about abuse.
You know, I, my personal experience, you know, with
friends who have not so much I think lesbian, but more
homosexual gay men. The thing that's been common
that I know from several in you know, my life or kind of 1
connection to my life is child sexual abuse and trauma.
Not saying that's every person with same sex attraction, but it
seems to be a very prevalent theme.
What's your take on that? So I've seen very similar right?
In my personal experience, I didn't have any sexual abuse at
all. I think it is very different.
I think wounds kind of, they happen from different things and
then they ooze differently, you know?
And so for me, I know many people who have had sexual
abuse, right? And that kind of led them either
towards that. Like a gentleman was abused when
he was young by a male. That was his first sexual
experience, though he knew it was wrong.
Just instinctively, not even raised in church, just knew it
wasn't right. That was his first experience.
So that's kind of where naturally kind of his body
started to take him because that's when he experienced that.
Then some go the other opposite way.
And there's, there's so many different things.
But I think also the realness of what's happened in your
childhood. It doesn't always look like
sexual abuse. It could be, man, my mom put me
in daycare because she had to work, you know?
And so this young girl, this little girl growing up didn't
have a lot of mom time, didn't have a lot of the nurture that
was needed that we actually created for.
And so was long. And that's more my story.
Like my mom didn't go to work, but just on the emotional level
from her own mom. She didn't know how to give
that. And so she could only give what
we receive, right? And so I know I was always a
longing for like, and it was always older women for me, which
is kind of interesting, kind of that mom type for her attention,
but emotional attention just see me not just like correct me and
this and that. So I think it can be a multitude
of things. And Satan will use anything.
He'll use any sort of abuse, neglect to just direct us not
just towards homosexuality, but towards, you know, just
anything, right? That is not God's way instead of
going towards healing. So I have found in many cases,
myself included, when you go back to your childhood, when you
learn that God is safe and you let him kind of review your
childhood and maybe some areas that we're lacking that he
actually wants to go back and heal those places.
I mean, and he can do that. And I've experienced that and
I'm continuing to experience that.
And I've seen that in a lot of my friends as well.
So it's beautiful, but I don't think there's a one answer.
Yeah, it's, it's going to be multiple experiences for
different people. I've heard that before many
times. And there's a famous
psychiatrist named Joseph, Doctor Joseph Nicolosi.
I don't know if you've heard of him, but yeah, but I was, you
know, been reading some of his work and it's, you know, very
countercultural, politically incorrect.
But he has these different theories that he's seen proven
out again again in his practice. Now, I think his son took it
over since his passing, but that they're sort of for the he he
focuses on like homosexual behavior in men, but he and
attraction. But he was saying that for these
a lot of these men, they, you know, have sometimes overbearing
or overly emotionally involved mothers.
And so the feminine is so familiar.
It's almost sometimes repugnant, repugnant, like too much.
But then they have these masculine figures that are more
distant. And so they the thing that you
can become sexually attracted to or you kind of eroticize is the
thing that's mysterious to you that you're you're hungry for.
And so if you read this book of your childhood, for a lot of
these folks that he treats, it's like they just he discovers
these common themes of these mothers way too entangled, like
they never let the little boy grow.
Up, yeah, kind of helicopter. Helicopter Well-intentioned I'm.
Sure, Yeah, well-intentioned. I'm sure.
The best thing? But then this father that is
mystery, too much of A mystery to the boy, so he never can
fully step into his manhood as a male and so he he's craving the
masculine and it becomes eroticized.
Absolutely. So what I would also say is I
see this outside of homosexuality too.
I see this when women are pursuing men to a place that is
not how God had it right. Like we can see this in any.
Because disorder sexuality figure and that's so true.
That's like the common, you know, story of that young woman
who's just seeking male attention desperately because
she didn't get what she needed as a kid.
Or got too much on this end. And not so our childhood, so
many people are like, that doesn't matter.
I was a kid. It matters.
Our childhood matters So many of our formative years.
I mean, like, I don't have a pH D, so I'm not trying to, but I'm
very blessed to be around a lot of people who do.
And I'm seeing it in my own life.
I'm seeing it in my own life. It's not only because this is
what the books say. Know when you've experienced
something like I'm seeing healing in my life from kind of
going back into my childhood. 11 ministry.
That's so good. Is the JP 2 healing center.
Yes, we had done Doctor Bob shoots.
We had him on a few weeks ago. So good, so good, so true.
Like I just so recommend that for anyone who's struggling, not
just with homosexuality, whatever it be, don't be afraid
to let God bring you back and show you some things in your
childhood. And that's not to blame.
That's not to give excuses to do whatever we want or to live a
certain way. It's for healing.
And I felt like the Lord showed me this years ago.
Is Kim. I reveal to heal.
He reveals to heal so. Beautiful not to hurt but to
heal. Another question that we got is
should I attend my son or my friend's gay wedding?
Yes, that is a very common question and I think when we
answer that one, you need to pray.
We forget as Christians that prayer is a part of everything,
right? Like I pray about what I'm going
to wear. I didn't today, but usually so
in that we need to come from a place of prayer.
God, what are you saying in this?
And so for me personally, I would not go to a same sex
union. I I do not believe Jesus
celebrates it. And so I can't celebrate it in
the person I love either. This is The thing is this is not
just that either I check yes or I check no, I show up or I
don't. There needs to be conversation
because whoever's inviting you to their wedding cares for you.
They invited you to something that is intimate, something is
special to them, right? And so I think to, to go about
this relationally, if you're not going to attend, I think there
needs to be some conversations like I love you.
I love you. And this is hard for me because
there is a part of me that wants to just support anything and
everything you do. But then there's this real part
of me that just can't. And it's not because I'm not
allowed to, it's because I believe there's something more,
whatever the Lord is doing. But we cannot veer from truth,
you guys, if we just start celebrating everything.
What did Jesus celebrate? He sat with sinners.
He ate with sinners, absolutely, but He did not celebrate their
sin. We have to remember that.
So yes, we can eat with one another.
We gather, we commune, we talk, but we don't celebrate.
And when you go to someone's wedding, you're celebrating that
you're not just having a meal with them, you're celebrating
what they're doing. I mean, back in the day, right?
Hey, if anybody disagrees, stand up.
They don't do that anymore. Too many people be standing up.
But in that like you are in agreement.
You're a witness. You're a witness.
So from that vantage point, there isn't there isn't a way to
go to a gay wedding I I've heard in truth.
I've heard some people say I go but they know I don't support
him. Like, but you're going.
And you're, what are you doing? Not sharing the champagne, you
know, not not drinking wine and. Here's my thing.
What about all the people that you're sitting at the table
with? Because so some people are like,
oh, I told them that I'm not in support, but I love you.
So I'm going. But now when I'm sitting at the
table, not with the bride and groom, right?
I'm sitting amongst others and they're like, oh, so are you so
happy for him? No, right, like are you going to
be that brutally honest? And now you're actually, so I
don't know to me if I was honest and said, Hey, I'm going to go
to your wedding, but I really don't agree.
And if anybody asks me, I'm going to be honest.
They're going to be like, you know, why don't you just stay
home, right? Like just don't go Because if
I'm going to go, I'm going to go in truth, not to ruin what
they're doing, but I'm not going to sit at the table and say,
yes, I'm I'm so excited for them.
But here's the here's the deal. If we're not going to go to a
same sex union based on truth, then what are you going to do
when your friend or your son who's dating his girlfriend
bought a house and they have a house warming party?
And they're going to go live together and they're going to
live wedding. Yeah.
You got to be consistent. You got it.
Or you're going to take your son's girlfriend on vacation and
you just give him one room. Like we got to be consistent
when it comes to to sin. Yes, God is consistent and if we
want to echo what God has put forth, we don't determine what
sin is. We either agree or disagree with
it, but he says what sin is. And so we get culturally really
messed up and it's honestly hurting the LGBT community as
well because they're like, wait, so I am sinning, but yet my
brother who's been hooking up with his girlfriend, he's not
she's not getting they're not getting the third degree like I
am when I just said I was dating the same sex, right?
And. That's where the phobia
accusation comes. Like you are just phobic against
this. Another one that I think is very
controversial, and this is from especially, I think maybe it's
more easy to understand in Catholic circles because the
Catholic Church has very strong teachings against contraception,
but. You better.
You know, if you are getting married and you're like, well,
I'm going to contracept as a married couple, I'm not going to
have kids or I'm going to wait a long time to have kids.
We're not ready. You know that's sterilized sex
you're having. Well, you're playing God.
It's playing God, but just to kind of compare it directly to
like the LGBT stuff, like what's the big problem with
homosexuality in God's eyes? It's not one man, one woman with
fertility. You can't have fertility
naturally. Well, if you're a heterosexual
couple but you're sterilizing the sexual act, how is your
sexual act different than a same sex sexual?
Act exactly. And that's why we are actually
self destructing because we're standing so firm in certain
areas of sin and even sexual sin, but we're not in others.
And we've accepted things that God never accepted and never
laid forth. So if sexual sin hurts, it hurts
everybody, whether it be homosexual or heterosexual sin.
And there's a reality of both. So when I have parents reach out
and they're like, my daughter came out as a lesbian, what do I
do? I said, you have a son, like
yes, but my daughter, I'm like, does your son have a girlfriend?
Yes, great girl, great. You know, they try to bring it
right back. I'm like, are you just as
concerned about your son and his girlfriend as you are about your
daughter? And if you're not, I'm concerned
for you. Sexual sin is prevalent and we
need to pay attention to it no matter what, in our own lives
and in others. First and foremost in our own
lives and the places that we are maybe sinning and justifying so.
OK, so how can people learn about Forgotten Faces
Unforgotten? Yeah, that's good.
Not forgotten. Or not unforgotten.
Thank you to Kim. Well, I don't think that's a
word. That's the problem.
Did. Unforgotten, I don't believe is
even actually like a word. Somebody told me that I'm like,
well, great, that's how you make new words.
So I love. It I think it's great.
How could you unforget? Well, God sees them, you see
them. I love that because you, I mean,
you went there at 23. You started this ministry.
Yeah. We didn't even talk about it a
lot. But I want people to hear a
little more. And then how can they support
unforgotten faces in Ethiopia? Absolutely, and we do.
And what do you do? What are you doing on the ground
there? Amen.
So we the very call I felt was to help little kids with single
moms. And so then as I went there and
the Lord was just opening up more and more and showing me it
also opened up to single dads and then single grandmas and
single grandpas. So it's single caregivers is
really where I felt the Lord was asking me to go in and help.
And it's such an I know people's like it's so cliche, but we
really do teach eat them out of fish.
We don't want to just hand fish because if we ever have to
leave, where they, how are they going to live?
And so we're all about self sustainability within the
family. So we take care of the little
kids of the single caregiver while we're working with the
single parent on what do you like to do?
What do you gifted at? Can we help you find a lane that
you can actually run in like God has gifted you, right?
And so we walk beside the parent while we're doing that.
We take care of food, education and health care for their child
to just kind of relieve a little bit of that financial pressure.
Their child is taken care of. We do not take them into another
home. We want to build up family.
And so we teach the kids how to be helpful around the house, you
know, and so we do a lot around working with the children and
then the single parent. And it's been incredible.
We have testimonies after testimonies of these single moms
that are now helping other people in their village.
We didn't even know about it. And it's been incredible.
So we have a little over 450 kids.
And so, yeah, so a couple 100 moms and single dads and some
single. Grand.
So can you sponsor a mom? You can.
Still, we did that for a long time.
I love that idea, but so it is. A lot of admin.
It's yeah, it's a not-for-profit and that means I don't get paid
either. So all the book sales go
towards. Rainbow revivals not paying you
and they're not paying you. Who's?
Thank God I got a father that pays me.
Real estate was really good to me.
Wow. But he he's just God continues
to take care. But yeah, I don't get paid so.
How can people donate? They go to unforgottenfaces.org.
It is a 5O1C3 and every penny goes.
So that was something the Lord put on my heart.
Every penny goes. So we have a team in Ethiopia,
but they're all Ethiopian, right?
And so everything is Ethiopian run.
I'm the only American and I'm not paid either.
And so, yeah. But we do need help, especially
as the Lord, because that's what I was doing for a long time.
I could raise support and fundraise and do different
events, but now with sharing about my testimony, you know,
and going everywhere, I don't have a lot of time to do that.
So that is a way that people can support.
But it's such an exciting opportunity to know that your
money can go directly to help those in need.
That's really because I know, I mean, there's other amazing
organizations like World Vision or, you know, all of these
things, but. Admin costs aren't bad.
No, it was just the call I felt. But there's something really
special about getting to directly serve in that way A.
Dollar given a dollar. Unforgottenfaces.org and then
Rainbow Revival. How can people support Rainbow
Revival? Because I want to see the
Freedom March in every city in America.
Amen. Come on.
So how do we support Rainbow Revival?
We kind of have three points and it's prey partner and so, so
none of us are paid on the team either.
And so all the money that is raised goes directly to whatever
the costs are to do these, you know, pop up events.
And so yeah, go to rainbowrevival.org and you can
check out, we're A5O1C3 as well. So that's separate and.
I want to pay you cash like here full time.
It's kind of incredible. Yeah, I love it.
I love it. You know what?
And it's not, I love when people get paid for things I do.
I totally support that. I help support people who do get
paid for ministry. But I do love that I'm in a
position where I don't have to. Incredible, you know?
And so in that, I mean, I'm not loaded either, but I, I've got
pretty low, low, I, I can live low level.
So, but in that with Rainbow Revival, you can show up, you
can spread the word. We're going to do the event
October 21st in Dallas. So you can come.
What we want to see is we want to see not only the body of
Christ come together, but when I say that ecumenical, we want to
see Catholics, evangelicals, Protestant, all the different
Lutherans, Baptist, like we need to pull together.
And you, my dear, have seen how when the body of Christ comes
together, giants. Fall, it's true.
You watched an arm of a giant fall off with in the pro-life
circle right? We believe the other arm is the
LGBT. Not people, but the agendas.
Ideology. We have to come together as a
body of Christ. That's true. 5050 years of
marching against Roe V Wade and it with prayer, I mean, so many
like little ladies praying their rosaries in church and you know,
the International House of Prayer, tons of prayer.
Christina, the live action team praying with Lou Engel since she
was like 20 years old and she's on our team.
And but those prayers for the end of abortion, that fall of
Roe. Obviously our fight's not over
yet in the fight for life, but you are doing the same in this
fight. We're we're partnered in these
different parts of the cultural spiritual battle.
So how can you donate? To go to
rainbowrevivalrainbowrevival.org. We we are paying out bills and
we thank God. He helped Kim pay those bills,
guys. He does it every time, but it's
a little close, closer than we'd like.
So it's coming off October 21st. So if you feel.
When's your next big event? It is October 21st.
You got it. OK.
Yep. All right.
Great. Well, we'll be releasing this
before then, so hopefully that will help.
Thank you, Kim. I mean, so amazing.
And then to follow you, your speaking, your writing, your
ministry, where do people do that?
I guess I have a social media it's.
Good, it's. Starting, I don't really love
that stuff, but it it's helpful and I'm thankful for those who.
So yeah, you can just look up Kim Zember and I love to hear
from people. My turn around time.
I'm only one person, so it's not the greatest, but eventually I
will get back to you and try to plug you into places that will
walk with you, journey with you if you're struggling or whatever
it might be. There's some beautiful
ministries out there that I'm I'm just honored to be able to
tell people about so. Beautiful.
Thank you. Thank you so much, Kim.
Hey guys, Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the
Lila Rose Podcast with Kim Zember.
I hope the conversation was encouraging and inspiring for
you. It was for me.
It's always so good to talk to Kim.
Please don't forget to check out unforgottenfaces.org and Rainbow
revival.org. And please support Kim's amazing
work. Also, if you're listening and
you're not part of the Patreon community, join the Patreon
community. We'd love to have you.
We're going to do a live stream next month just for our patrons.
This is the way we're going to help grow the podcast along with
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It's really fun. Check it out at the link in the
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