All right, we're doing something new on the podcast.
We're going to do a series of videos on dating, dating
etiquette, how to deal with tough things in dating.
It's kind of chaos out there. I hear a lot of Gen.
Z ers complain that dating today is harder than it has been for
millennials or Gen. Xers are certainly boomers, that
they have the worst of it. And I think from the stories
that I hear, I think that you're right, my Gen.
Z friends, I'm a millennial. Dating was rough for me too.
I dated all through my 20s and in my late teens.
So have my stories, I have my experiences to share, but the
reality is a lot of people I think are interested in open for
looking for love and struggling to find it.
So welcome to the dating master class we're going to talk about
today. Start with one of the hottest
topics in dating. Yes, you guessed it, breakups.
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delicious coffee. Who hasn't experienced A
breakup? OK, my producer here, Franco has
not experienced A breakup. Many people have.
And you know what? There's blessings and breakups.
There's actually a lot of blessings and breakups.
So we're going to talk about today how to break up a little
bit, how to know that you need to break up and a lot how to do
the breakup because I'm of the opinion very strongly that how
you break up and how you are broken up with can make a huge
impact on you and on even your future relationships.
Now, you're not doomed to anything.
Even if you experienced the worst breakup ever, the person
you broke up with was completely cruel to you.
It was such a confusing and chaotic relationship and then
they broke up with you in this completely unkind way.
That doesn't mean you're broken and that you can't go on and
have a wonderful, amazing future and have find, find and marry
the love of your life. So no, no one is doomed to
anything. Or maybe you made a mistake and
you were a total jerk and how you broke up with someone.
That doesn't mean you're doomed in the future.
The point of this episode is what do we do?
How do we do this? And we're going to look at some
famous scenes in movies to learn what not to do primarily.
Also, what to do. There's actually some good
examples, some good food for thought.
I'm going to share some personal experiences.
It's going to hopefully be more than anything helpful.
All right, so first of all, opening thoughts, I think first
OG podcast episode was on principles for dating, core
principles for dating. And it was, I think it's to this
day still the most popular or one of the very most popular of
all the podcast episodes I've ever done.
I think strongly believe that the point of dating is
ultimately to discern, is this somebody that I want to marry?
And if they want to marry you, you want to marry them.
You've done some of the basic prep for marriage, then
wonderful, get married. It's going to be amazing.
This doesn't mean that dating can't be fun.
Dating isn't, yes, about building a friendship with
someone and really getting to know them as they are, not
having this agenda for them. But ultimately there is more to
it than a friendship, right? You're seeing, is this somebody
I want to spend the rest of my life with and maybe raise a
family with and have kids with, right?
Another important context here. All the advice I think I'm going
to give or most of it, and that we're going to like journey
together on. Especially like looking at the
clips and everything else. It doesn't apply to you if
you're in a really abusive situation, in that situation, go
to someone that you know, that you trust, that has wisdom.
If you need help with boundaries or you need help with like
dealing with how to get out of that harmful situation and get
yourself to emotional and physical safety.
OK, All right, another sort of background thing here.
I also believe that if you have been dating somebody for like a
long time, let's say at least a year or maybe 2, maybe through
4:00, and you're still not sure that you want to marry them.
Do them the favor of lovingly letting them go.
Do yourself a favor. Do them a favor.
If you can't fully commit, if they can't fully commit.
And it has been a significant time when we've really gotten to
know each other, gotten to know each other's families, you know,
spent that time. You're you're of age, you know,
you're not some teenager. You're in your 20s or in your
30s. It's been years.
Let them go or let yourself go. All right, so then how do you
break up? We're going to start with a
scene of what not to do from a movie that many of us have seen
and some have not. I actually, in Full disclosure,
have not seen this entire movie. I have read the Wikipedia and I
have watched this clip. So this is from Whiplash.
It's about a drummer. It's a psychological thriller.
And what's going to happen? You're going to witness a
breakup and you can tell me afterwards if you think this is
a good breakup. I.
Don't think that we should be together.
And I've thought about a little lot and this is what's going to
happen, OK? I'm going to keep pursuing what
I'm pursuing. OK, already.
I do want to give him kudos that he was direct.
I don't see us together. And I think it's very important.
That's actually one of the first principles I'm going to say is
like, you've got to be direct. If you're going to break up with
somebody, don't hedge around, you know, beat around the
bushes, don't hedge it and be like, well, I'm not really sure,
but I think maybe we need to break up.
Like be direct if you're ready to break up, you say I don't see
us being together. You know, maybe you're not
attracted anymore. I'm not interested in you in
that way. I don't feel that connection.
I don't feel like we're meant to get married.
I'm not interested and make it very direct.
Also. I think it's also nice that
they're in a semi private, like there's not tons of people
around, but it's also semi public.
So it's like they're in a fairly neutral location.
Now, depending on the context of the breakup, that might be
appropriate to do it over the phone.
I'm going to get to that. But I do think it seems like the
location is fairly neutral. Maybe a park would be better.
It could be a little more private, but still public.
But it doesn't seem like an overly busy, you know,
restaurant or coffee shop. And because I'm doing that, it's
going to take up more and more of my time, and I'm not going to
be able to spend as much time with you.
And even when I do spend time with you, I'm going to be
thinking about drumming, I'm going to be thinking about jazz,
making my charts and all that. And because of that, you're
going to start to resent me and you're going to tell me to ease
up on the drumming, spend more time with you because you're not
feeling important and I'm not going to be able to do that.
And really, I'm just going to start to resent you for even
asking me to stop drumming. All right, so he's like
explaining himself a lot. I think it's not necessary to
explain this much, but let's see where he goes with this.
I mean, it it it, it looks like it's starting to go down a
little bit because he's a he's doing a lot of you things like
things that he's not happy about her.
And so instead of it being like, oh, I'm not interested in you, I
don't see a future with you. It's like you are not doing
these things for me, right? And it's like this is where it
gets into beating somebody when they're down instead of leaving
them with leaving them with love and and gentleness.
So let's see where this goes. And we're just going to start to
hate each other and it's going to get very, it's going to be
ugly. And so for those reasons, I'd
rather just, you know, break it off clean.
Not too bad, I mean could have been better, but not too bad,
OK. Because I want to be great.
That's a little weird. Let's say maybe theoretically
it's true because for him to be great, he can't be in a
relationship because he needs to practice on his little drums,
you know, for 50 hours a week and for whatever reason you
can't be in a relationship. In that case, that doesn't mean
it's her fault. That's actually more his fault
that he needs to be so exclusively dedicated to this
work that he doesn't have space in his life for love.
And if that's the case, which is sad, I don't recommend that for
anyone. But if that is the case, then he
should just be honest and say that as opposed to making it
like she is holding him back from being great.
And when I did see you, you treat me like because I'm just
some girl who doesn't know what she wants and you have a path
and you're going to be great and I'm going to be forgotten and
therefore you won't be able to give me the time of day because
you have bigger things to pursue.
That's exactly my .0. My gosh, OK, so even if he
thought that, and yes, it's possible to think poorly of
someone that you've dated. I'm not recommending that, but
it's possible. You don't tell them, you don't
say that to them. So, so mean, I just want to
applaud the girl in the clip because she has enough sense of
her value. She's not groveling at his feet.
She's not, you know, convincing him to stay.
He just dissed her. He just put her down really
significantly. And she's just like, I'm I'm out
of here. We shouldn't date.
And that's good. She has a sense of herself worth
and anybody in any relationship, I hope that you have a sense of
yourself worth. When you date somebody and you
need to break up with somebody, you should start.
I would say #1 principle is don't delay, you know, get make
the make it happen. So don't wait around until, OK,
I'm going to wait till after their birthday or oh, I'm going
to wait until after the wedding that we have to go to get
together or I'm going to wait until after the semester ends.
If you are already convinced. This is not someone I want to be
with. OK, then you need to just call
it and be honest with them and set them free.
It's not kind or loving or fair, in my opinion, to just continue
to date them. In addition, if this is someone
that is not long distance and there's someone that you're
dating in person, you know, that's not like a long distance
relationship. I think it's an in person
conversation. So it's good in this clip that
they did that. But obviously how we did it was
wrong. But it's good to sit down like a
park or, you know, a coffee shop or find a, you know, semi
neutral, public, semi public place.
You know, don't do it at your apartment or his apartment.
You know, I would avoid things like that.
I would do in a neutral place, third party place.
And you know, then we're going to talk what comes next, like
how to do this. But don't make them.
If you're in a long distance relationship, I do not recommend
flying across the country to break up with them or making
them fly across the country to be broken up with.
That can be a phone call that does not need to be an in
person. And again, if there's abuse in
the relationship, do you don't need any phone calls, You don't
need any in persons. You don't even need a
communication. If it's bad enough abuse, you
can just boundary yourself and stop talking.
Or if it's kind of a borderline situation, you could send an
e-mail and just be like, I cannot continue this And I, you
know, please do not contact me. So this is the one thing that
the guy did well, I think in the whiplash clip clip is that he
was direct. He started out by just saying, I
don't think I want to be with you.
I don't remember his exact words, but the first words are
fairly neutral. Basically, I don't see this
moving forward and I think people deserve that.
Oh, I think that maybe we should break up because I am figuring
some things out and I really like you, but I'm not sure.
Maybe in the future, like, give them closure, give them the gift
of closure and tell them I'm not interested in being with you
anymore. And you know, I don't feel the
connection. Make that clear by just saying I
do not see a future for us and I do not want to continue dating.
Don't beat around the Bush. All right, this next point I
think is a little maybe controversial.
We're going to watch a clip from a really fun movie.
This is one of my favorite books when I was a little kid, Little
Women, and this is the Joe and one of the Joe and Lori scenes.
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you'll be off on a long holiday. So gorgeous wherever they're
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Why should we run off and join a pirate ship?
Oh, the danger of having your best friend be someone of the
opposite sex. I.
Have loved you ever since I've known you Joe, I couldn't help
it and and I tried to show you wouldn't let me, which is fine
but I must make you here now and give me an answer because I
cannot go on like this any longer.
I. Even.
Like I'm happy I did, it's fine, and I waited.
And I complained. Because I, you know, I figured
you'd love me, John. I mean, you kind of got to give
them a little credit because they were best friends.
They did everything together. So it's not out of the ordinary
that if you're best friends with some of the opposite sex that
you would figure that they would love you.
I mean, they should. They do love you as a friend and
that you'd want something more that.
So that's often what happens, right?
If your best friend is someone of the opposite sex, I don't
recommend that. I really don't like you can have
deep friendships with people of the opposite sex, but I would
say your best bud should be your mom.
I'm just kidding. I mean, it can be your mom of
you love your mom, but it should be like your brother or your
sister or, you know, someone of the same sex because ultimately
it's just it's just rough. And then what happens when you
date someone? You're not going to be like best
friends going, getting dinner and getting coffee and like, you
know, going on hikes with this one other person of the opposite
sex. Like it doesn't doesn't register
right. So I think that a certain level
of decorum and sort of boundaries in friendships of the
opposite sex, both before, during and after dating, meaning
when you're single, when you're dating, and if you're married,
is absolutely essential. And I realize I'm not half good
enough and I'm not this great man.
And yes, you. Are you're a great deal too good
for me and I and I'm so grateful to you and I'm so proud of you
and I just, I don't see why I can't love you as you want me
to. I don't know.
Why not attracted? I also think he wasn't
intellectual enough for her. Like that was part of it.
She ends up marrying this professor and.
It will be a lie to say I do and I don't, but she's.
Being so honest and I think that's awesome.
I'm so sorry but I just can't help it.
I can't love anyone else, Joe. I only love.
You Kenny, It would be a disaster if we it.
Wouldn't be a disaster, we'd be miserable, I.
Can't. I can't.
I've tried it and I. Failed.
So she's trying to like he's pushing her and she's like
saying I can't do it, I can't do it.
And OK, first of all, she's being direct.
Fantastic. She's like telling him directly.
There's no beating around the Bush.
She's like, I do not see this. I do not, you know, I don't, I
can't see us together. I can't love you like that.
So she's being very direct, very good.
The other thing that I think Joe does that I really love here
actually, and this is going to be kind of my last principle
that I wanted to share on good breakups is that she affirmed
him. Like she directly affirmed him
as being someone that she's proud of, that she thinks she
even says you're better than me, you're too good for me.
I'm not saying you should tell the person you're breaking up
with or you're rejecting that they're too good for you unless
you sincerely think that, you know, that's a big thing to
think. But more that they are somebody
that has incredible value as a human being and they have
attributes. And if you believe that they
will be a good spouse for someone someday and it, you
know, make someone very happy one day, say that I really think
that you can tell someone when you're breaking up with them.
Be direct, right? Keep it simple.
Find that neutral place, like the honoring of them.
Don't beat around the Bush, but say something affirming of them,
you know, leave them with ultimately positive, a blessing
on them, saying like, look, you're an amazing man or woman,
you know, look, I think you're going to make someone so happy
one day. I don't feel that connection
with you, but I know you are a catch.
Like I know you are a great person and yeah they'll that
person may still feel terrible afterwards.
It still may be a blow to their self esteem depending on their
situation. But I guarantee you that those
positive words long term are good things to leave somebody
with. Now some people might argue and
be like oh that's leading them on.
Like oh to say someone oh how great they are while you're
breaking up with them. It's a mixed message.
I totally disagree. If you are breaking up with
someone, and this is not an abuser, you're breaking up, but
this is just a person you're not connected to, you don't see a
future with for whatever reasons, and you are being
direct with them about it. You're telling them I don't see
us getting married. I don't feel that connection
with you. I don't desire that with you,
but you tell them that they are someone of value that you
appreciate and that you know will have a great future.
I think that that is honorable. The last thing is if they don't
take no for an answer. So in the scene with Joe and
Lori, I mean, he keeps pushing. Eventually he does take no for
an answer and he goes and marries his sister.
OK, So there's a half ending for for Teddy.
But if they don't take no for an answer in the conversation, like
have a boundary, right? If they're just like really
struggling with it, just be like, listen, this is where this
is where it is. This is where I'm at.
I don't see a future for us. And I'm I'm sorry.
And then call it, you know, to say like, I've got to get going.
You don't have to talk for five hours about it.
Now, if you've dated them for five years, you know, maybe you
will talk for a few hours about it.
I'm not saying just to not answer any questions, not
dialogue with them. But ultimately you want to
signal that your no is a no, that the end is the end in how
you behave and how you talk, not just in the physical words
you're using, right? Yeah, maybe.
Maybe it is a few conversations you'll need to have.
Maybe it is a couple meetings, especially if it's a very long
relationship. But ultimately, I think that
does more to make it hang on the relationship than, you know,
giving them positive words about how great of a person there, if
you have made-up your mind, right?
Meeting up with them 10 times to talk about why you've made-up
your mind to pick up with them and having like 10 more dates
with them to talk about it, I don't think is a good way to
break up. What about just regular everyday
rejection, though? What about if it's not some big
breakup, it's not some big relationship?
Maybe you went on one date, maybe you didn't go on any
dates. And like, this is someone who's
asking, asking you out. How do you reject somebody in a
classy way? Well, I think the most
fundamental way to reject someone in a classy way is the
very simple line that says something along the lines of I'm
flattered you asked, but no, thank you.
I'm not interested. And maybe, yeah, you're not
flattered. Maybe you're, you're like,
you're only a teeny tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny bit flattered.
But the beauty of saying I'm flattered, you asked, unless
they're a complete creep, this does not apply.
Like if this is someone who you know, is like an abusive super
creep, like someone that's not a safe person, you don't even need
to respond. You can just ignore.
And you certainly don't need to say you're flattered.
But this is like just a decent person who went out of their way
to ask you out. You know, that takes courage.
That takes a level of, like, oomph that you should, I think,
acknowledge because it's really hard to do today.
Women complain constantly to me. I hear all the time, nobody's
asking guys anyone out. Like, guys are not asking girls
out. And then maybe they'll get asked
out in some way by a guy that they're not interested in.
They're like gross. That's not the way to go.
Like if you want to further pollute the dating pool to make
guys even more discouraged and even more disenchanted and even
less likely to ask anybody out ever again.
Because like, you might not like him, but your friend or your
friend's sister might like him, right?
So give him that. Give him a little positivity of
the I'm flattered you asked because it takes courage to ask.
So that's why I really like that line.
Keep it simple, keep it classy, keep it positive, be direct.
I'm flattered you asked. All right, so there's this
scene. You might have seen this before.
I find it very funny, but I think it's a good, it has a good
lesson for us. What do you think the chances
are of a guy like you and a girl like me ending up together?
Well, Lloyd, that's difficult to say and we really don't.
Hit. Me with it, just give it to me
straight. I already blew it, right?
It's difficult to say. She doesn't like him.
She does not see herself with him.
She just say zero. I'm not.
I mean, that sounds harsh, OK? She just say that's very sweet,
but I'm not interested in you at all.
I mean, you got to you got to not lead them on, right?
OK. Wait just to see you Mary, just
at least you can do is level with me.
He wants honesty. He wants honesty.
What are my chances? Not good, Not good.
OK, sounds pretty honest. You mean not good?
Like one out of 100. I'd say more like 1 out of
1,000,000. So you're telling me there's a
chance? All right, let's curious.
Yeah. What's the lesson here?
Yeah, some people, they will be the eternal optimist.
But if you know they're the eternal optimist type, it's very
sweet. But you're like on the receiving
end of that and they're interested in you and they're
asking you about you. Just say I'm not interested.
If you really are not interested, you do not see
yourself with this person. Don't say that there's a one in
a million chance. Do not say that That's actually
the one of the worst things that you can say is going to make
them try harder. OK, so classy.
Rejection is simple. It's final.
And it has something like, I'm flattered you ask or, you know,
it's really flattering of you and you know, that's really
thoughtful of you to ask me. Or I really admire the courage
it took for you to ask me, but I'm not interested, OK.
And listen, I think at large, both men and women appreciate
sincerity, appreciate respectful communication and appreciate
direct communication. OK?
So being direct with the other person in dating is always a
good mantra, is always a good principle, always a good rule of
thumb. Last one we're going to do here
is a, you know, a little bit of a what not to do, OK.
You need to hear the truth Bella.
Understand all your options and I want you to choose me instead
of. Him.
I hate this movie, by the way. I don't understand.
I don't feel that way for you. I don't buy it.
Don't you buy, OK? Believe them.
If they tell you that this is so little freebie advice, believe
them. If they tell you that they're
not interested in you, believe them.
Let's pretend they are, but they're saying that they're not.
You don't want to play be with someone who plays games like
that. You don't want that.
That's going to be a mind trick for you.
And it's not going to be a healthy, It's definitely an
unhealthy, unstable place to start a relationship.
And if they're sincerely not interested, take them at their
word and move on so you can move on to something better for you
and they can move on to something better for them.
That's how I feel. You feel something else for me,
you just won't admit it. So I'm not giving up.
Yikes. I don't know.
I think the, the message here is first of all, I do think this is
like a genre in movies of like the overbearing lover who really
wants the girl. You know, sometimes it's the
girl who wants the guy, but usually it's the guy who wants
the girl and she's like rejecting him.
And I think that there is sort of this fantasy is a strong
word, but there's a sort of like romantic narrative around like
being pursued so heavily by someone that you don't really
love, you don't really want to be with, but they're still
pursuing you so heavily. Not taking no for an answer.
I don't think we should glamorize that.
I understand, you know, on an archetypal level that, you know,
I think about like salvation and God, like God that loves us so
much he sent his only son to die for us, Jesus Christ in a cross.
Like he is the ultimate lover who took the worst rejection for
the sake of us, right? He took on all of our sin, on
all of our rejection. And so I can see, you know, the
temptation to kind of romanticize in like a
relationship, a romantic relationship, the sort of, I
guess, attraction of someone who just like goes to the ends of
the earth. But the reality is you want a
partner. You know marriage is not about
winning someone. At the end of the day, it's not.
Yes, you want to hold their heart and you want yours to be
held too. So I do think a lot of the
language of like, he wins her heart.
Yeah, Yeah, he does and she wins his.
But at the end of the day, you're partners and you are
going to be spouses in a marriage and you're going to be
in it together. And there's not one who should
be, you know, always pursuing the other more than the other.
I don't think that, you know, yes, my husband and I are like
dating and stuff. He totally pursued me.
He did a beautiful job, but I also had to pursue him in terms
of, you know, really love him and care for him and show him
that I wanted I wanted to be with him.
It wasn't just him loving me all day.
Like I wanted to love him too. What's the lesson here?
The lesson is here is if you want to reject them, reject them
in a classy way. And you know, if you're
listening and you're a woman who is really into this guy that's
just not into you, let it go. Like you are beautiful.
God is a plan for you. You are unique.
There's someone out there, I believe, for just you.
If you're called to marriage, just someone out there for just
you is going to love you as you are and help you be better and
help you live a beautiful life. Don't waste your time and your
emotional energy on someone that is out of reach because they're
not seeing you the same way. OK?
And if you're a guy and you're really into this girl, like
she's something that you're just so in love with and she's just
not interested, yes, I, I know that hurts, but there's
something better for you. Not that she's not good enough
and there's some better girl, but I'm saying better for you.
Like there's someone that you will be loved by, who will want
to receive your love and your affection and your attention and
it's going to be beautiful. But if you're just pouring all
your energy emotionally and your angst into like, this is someone
I want to be with so badly and they don't want to be with me, I
know it's hard, but you got to let it go.
So my advice, I don't it's just a werewolf and the other guy's a
vampire. So don't be like the wolf I
guess be the vampire and said no, don't be.
Don't be any creepy guy from whatever girlfriend this movie.
But the point is like unrequited love hurts, but that's not your
destiny. And the best way to move out of
unrequited love is to direct your love towards the people
that do love you back and your energy towards building those
strong relationships where you can grow as a person.
Ultimately, I believe towards God who always loves us back.
He is love itself and we're only going to be fulfilled in God
whose complete and perfect love. But in this life, in our human
affairs, you know, don't, don't sit in the unrequited love like
it's not the place to end up. There's something that God has
for you. So have hope.
And if you are going on a date, you'll want to look great.
So go to carlyjeanlosangeles.com and find the cutest.
And this doesn't have to be just a date with someone that you're
not married to. If you're married, you can go
get an outfit and there's clothes for men too.
But carlyjeanlosangeles.com is a clothing company that shares
your values that has on trend ethically sourced adorable
pieces. It has capsule collection so you
can find the basic for everyday wear as well as those great
special pieces to spice up that everyday wear.
That special sweater, that fun pair of pants, that scarf, that
special dress. Check out
carlyjeanlosangeles.com. They have some great stuff in
for the fall. Great jacket, some great
dresses, some great sweaterscarlyjeanlosangeles.com.
And use the code Lila Rose at checkout for 20% off your order.
One more principle. Leave them better than they
found you. We'll probably do a dating
episode just on this, but I'm really, this is a really
important one. Leave the person better than
they found you. What do I mean by that?
Don't sleep with them. Like you know, this is not
someone that you're going to be using their body and giving them
your body for pleasure and connection, even though you're
not committed in a lifelong marriage.
Like don't do that. Give them friendship, share your
values, share experiences together that it may be
beautiful, but have those boundaries in your relationship
so that when you leave that relationship, they were edified
by you. They were ultimately encouraged
by you. They weren't scarred by you.
And so my closing thoughts here, God really does have a plan.
He has a plan for your life. I do not know what it is, OK?
I don't even know what God's plan is for my life tomorrow
because I might not live till tomorrow.
We are not promised tomorrow. This life is pure gift.
We can't really fully earn those gifts or lose those gifts.
You know, we can try to be better people.
We can try to follow God and do all of these things, but at the
end of the day, when one door closes, God has a plan.
And the most important thing I think in all of dating, yes,
this is a Christian message. This is a message of faith is
trust, trust that there is a plan, trust that it's going to
work out and a willingness to treat the people that we
encounter, whether we're dating them or we having to break up
with them or we're being broken up with.
Treating those people with respect the other day.
We're all human beings who have dignity and who deserve respect.
So remember, every breakup is a preparation for meeting that
love of your life. If you're called to marriage,
hang in there. Have hope, it's going to be
awesome.