Welcome to the doctor nurse podcast.
I'm your host, dr. Sandra contenta.
I'm a doctor, Lee prepared nurse practitioner.
And I am so glad you decided to join me today.
The doctor nurse podcast is a podcast for nurses and nurse
practitioners that are wanting to understand what exactly their
degrees can do for them. After the birth of my son, I had
this baking desire to have more flexibility in my career
choices. Despite feeling like all the
alphabet soup, after my name didn't really afford me.
Me very many options, I launched the podcast to find the answers
that I, so desperately needed. I also knew I couldn't be the
only nurse who felt this way. This is sound like you, if so,
come and hang out with me as I figure out what our nursing
degrees can give us access to as far as career flexibility
control over our schedules and Entrepreneurship my talking with
NPCs and our friends who are doing exactly that.
Sit back and enjoy the conversation before we start the
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Doctor nurse podcast, fam. Welcome to another episode of
the doctor nurse podcast. I'm your host, Sandra.
And today, we have Caitlyn. She is a BSN Graduate from UVA.
She worked in the NICU for seven years before pursuing her
pediatric nurse practitioner degree at Vanderbilt University
and she now works time as a nurse.
Practitioner I heard you say primary care and we were talking
before the podcast and she is a birth and postpartum doula who
owns her own business in the greater Charlotte Metro Area.
She was inspired to start her own business in 2022, it's taken
off and she's been doing great work and you guys know Know, if
you listen to my birth story that I'm obsessed with doulas, I
think that they are so bomb. Welcome Caitlin to the podcast.
I'm so happy to have you on that.
Much for having me. I did not hear your story.
I'm going to listen to it, like, hang up.
Oh my gosh, my Doula is the reason why I had a vbac and I I
again, I love Emily austere, she's a author.
And she actually published something saying that doulas are
responsible for decreasing the rate of C-sections by like 25
percent. I believe in women and so that's
pretty substantial, your twenty-five, percent less likely
to have a C-section. If you have a doula in your
corner. So I am an advocate for doulas.
I think they're amazing and to know that you're just this
hybrid nurse practitioner Doula just sets me on fire.
Like, Gunsa blazing. I think it's fantastic.
So I'm so happy to chat with you.
That's awesome. Thank you for having me.
Yeah, the combination has been amazing.
And like, I was saying, before we started, I kind of thought
after having my son, I would do it as a getting back into work,
a side hustle, and then things really took off, but I also
didn't want to give up my nurse practitioner license, because I
love being a nurse practitioner, just the full time in the
hospital. In this dress was getting to me,
and I was having a little bit of burnout.
So choosing to do, both has gotten rid of all of my burnout
and now I'm really happy with both of the careers.
So it's been really an amazing experience.
Yeah. So what I really want to hear
about is again like Kind of what your day-to-day looks like, kind
of how you juggle it all. Because a lot of people that are
listening to my podcast are interested in side.
Hustle gigs starting their own business.
Really, what can I what can my Nursing degree?
Help me do, that is away from the bedside.
We'd love. I love the hospital setting.
It's great for certain times in your life, but once you become a
mom and like, becomes a little more complicated, and you need
that flexibility, I'm finding that the hospital's really not
meeting. People's needs.
It's really just being super stringent and burning people
out. So this is a note to hospitals
that might be listening to my podcast.
Hey do a better job at creating some flexibility within your
positions but you know what, if you're going to lose women and
especially moms in healthcare, then what can they do is kind of
the heart of my podcast. So, tell me a little bit about
kind of what your day-to-day, how you split up your week in
between your work and your different jobs and managing
being a mall. Yeah.
So I think the key is find something that you really are
passionate about because if I was doing something else as a
side hustle it would feel like a dream.
So I realized it wasn't that I wasn't doing.
I was tired but not because I was doing too much, I wasn't
doing enough of what I love which is working with women
networking with women and just working with women in community
when I started focusing on that, everything else fell into place
and I had this idea that to My own business and make it work as
a mom, I had to have a schedule, I had to do things, I didn't
like doing like I had to do the admin work, the website, the
social media. And so I first started trying to
do everything and it was awful. And then I got this advice.
It said, stop trying to do what, you're not good at, do your
Genius. So I started doing only my
genius, which is talking to women working with women and
power, like figuring out what they're good at and helping them
find that niche. Pitch.
And that's when my business exploded effortlessly.
Before that it was a struggle. I couldn't figure out when to
put the time in to write social media post which I hated doing
but I felt was necessary. But now I hired someone to do
that, we eventually hired a nanny to help with childcare.
So I did a few things to make sure that I could focus on the
area. That was my genius.
And then my business really took off when I got clear about what
I'm good at. Does that make sense?
Yes. Percent.
I've heard that as well that I had somebody ask me.
I was gonna dredge early do something and they're like
higher that out. If that makes you that miserable
don't do that. I've had multiple entrepreneurs
coming to the podcast and say that exact thing like get really
good systems to help offload you know, having to manually think
about things. So again for someone listening
like I used someone, I use a program to schedule people on to
my podcast, like I used to be doing all this extra work.
And I'm like about doing that again.
Like I need to whoop, we're gonna pay for that because it's
just too much in the more that you offload into systems.
The more that you offload into, I'm going to pay someone to
write that blog. I'm going to pick.
I just can't do it all. My my genius is sitting and
having conversations with people.
Like, that's what I'm good at this is what I need to be
focusing, more more my time on because this is kind of my, my
little thing. So I completely agree with you.
So again, so how many days are you working as a nurse
practitioner in primary care how Days.
Are you doing Doula work? Which I know Doula work, which
will get into. I want to hear out like what
you're doing. The work looks like cause I
think you're doing the more at the managing part more, and then
yeah, listening. Yeah.
And then describe kind of your how you kind of fit all of it
into your busy schedule. Yeah.
So what it actually looks like is Monday Wednesday Friday.
I work in a pediatric nurse practitioner office and we have
a nanny who comes to your house. While I'm gone to watch my son
and then on Tuesday, Thursday, I'm off with him and I do mine.
Doula work in between. So I was doing a lot more
before. I went back to primary care
right now. I'm Contracting, the majority of
it out. So I've doulas that work with me
on my team. When I do do the Dual of work.
I'll do overnight care or some on Tuesday, Thursday.
And then I was struggling with, how am I going to attend birth?
And I felt like it was impossible with my schedule and
I realized, okay, what are you good at?
Again, working with other women women.
So I have a woman who's a doula and she has the same philosophy
as me. So we work as a team and then if
I can attend great, and if I can't attend, she goes or vice
versa. That's how I do the birth
attendants. And usually, at night is when I
get done with like my admin things, or when my son is
napping like my I'm packing right now and at night all work
on scheduling contact meeting with clients doing Zoom calls
and I really think it's like, I just don't watch TV at night.
Sleeping just like a dog thing, but people are like when you
have time I'm like, well, instead of Benji Netflix, I just
like binge my business. Oh, come on.
Come on, Caitlin fantastic. I love that.
I don't watch TV and I don't binge shows, but we like we
don't have a TV so I know. II.
Just I sit on the couch and my husband helps me with the
finances of my business, and that's what we do together for
an hour, and you can get so much done.
It's just thinking how much time at the end of your day as a mom.
You sit down flippy. Mindlessly through the channels
or cleaning up something from the kids and your stickers are
ghosts opted. Instagram reels, you literally
can spend an hour. Yeah.
But if you can stop and focus on what you're doing and do
something you love, I feel more energy versus if I literally
Injury old or scroll through Instagram or stared, a TV for an
hour. I don't feel good.
I feel good when I do my stuff, my business and then I can go to
sleep and have a good night sleep kahlan.
I needed to hear that today, honestly, because I literally
have on my in my closet. So you know, I podcast in my
closet. Yeah.
From that. You don't know, that's what I do
and and I legitimately have on the wall in here like my vision
board, right? And so on my vision board above
it, I literally wrote replace Netflix with podcast.
So like Like replace sleeping in with early mornings, replace
replace. Replace substitute substitute
replace scrolling watching Netflix at night, with working
on your business. Because what you'll believe is
that you don't have enough time, what you'll find is that you
waste a lot of time. And when you become a mom, you
realize how much time, how little time you have, if you
really want to spend quality time with your children, how
little time you have for yourself and so you've got to
cram a lot and I'm like, give a mom 15 minutes and watch what
she You in 15 minutes because we could we can change the world to
15 minutes. If you give it to Mom because we
just know like you got to use your time wisely, right?
100%. And you don't have to have a kid
who's A Perfect Sleeper of a perfect Napper.
I had a kid who didn't sleep for the first year.
Like no joke, contact naps co-sleeping.
We did all the things so you don't have to have set time.
I think this is something that people get really hung up on.
Yes. You sometimes have to schedule a
podcast interview and show up on time for that.
But for me taking responsibility of my time and trying to change
my language around time instead of I don't have time for that.
I started saying I'm not prioritizing that right now and
it really was confronting because I had so many reasons
which I believe are excuses of why I like excuses excuses
reasons reasons why I couldn't get it done and I didn't have
time. But when I changed my language,
Suddenly I had time for whatever I truly wanted to do and if I
wasn't doing it, I had to ask myself, why are you not making
time for this? And that was, sometimes not fun
to answer. Yeah.
No. Could you just sit with
yourself? You have to be real.
Yeah, that is like, a great all fail.
Like what if it doesn't work? Like, what if I try and it
doesn't work or what, if it works?
Like, how am I going to find time to grow this?
What if I like it more than health care?
So there were so many questions in the back of my mind that were
I was using The time. Excuse to really not work on
myself and why I wasn't showing up, how is like, real?
That is so real. That's raw.
I love that. I love that.
I can't tell. And I know that's probably not
necessarily the answer you want, but I can't tell you as a mom,
how to make your side house or your business in terms of your
schedule when you really want something to happen.
Like you said, give them 15 minutes if she really wants to
do it. She will if There are things
holding you back. You won't.
But that's for you to figure out.
Yeah, you got to ask those hard questions of yourself and sit
alone and kind of process through if it works.
I love that part because it's true because you end up making
these, I mean, I'll be honest, I I started podcasting in December
of 2020 and I didn't launch my podcast until May of twenty,
twenty one, because it was that. What if it's Who wants to listen
to this? Who wants to?
You know what? If it actually works?
What if people? What if nobody like you go
through that, right? And you just have to do, take
action, do it anyway, do it scare, do it, just do it.
And so I love that going back to my birth story and kind of
chatting about what so you do primary care which nurse
practitioners. And nurses know what primary
care is. But for the person that's like,
okay, so I've never heard of a doula explain kind of what it is
that your Doula work looks like. Can you explain how you
incorporate it in your week? But for someone that's like okay
wait going to births like what is that?
Like what does it do? Ledoux.
And so yeah, so that's somebody that's thinking about.
Well I didn't even know that something that I would want to
do, explain kind of what you do. Yeah, so a doula provides
support to a woman. If you're talking about a labor
Doula they provide support during the labor process, often
they meet with them in prenatals prior to birth, and then they
show up for labor weather, wherever they plan their birth
at home and the hospital and a birthing center.
And they at they help them advocate for what they want.
Or they provide simple physical support like rubbing their back,
helping them with positions to cope with the physical
sensations of Labor. And I think the optimal Doula
helps you in the prenatal process process, your fears
about birds, and prepare emotionally and spiritually as
well. Because during birth, the maiden
will die in. The mother is born so it's no
small thing. You're going to have to go
through the emotional processing at some point.
So ideally the Doula is there to help you and then people say,
why doesn't my husband just do it?
The role of men in labor is incredibly different than a
woman who has either been there or is just a woman.
And understands the perspective that you're coming from and if
you look back men or just recently incorporated into birth
and we suddenly expect them as women to know exactly what to do
and be our only support for birth.
And Men fix things. That's what they like to do.
They see it. How can I fix it?
They try to fix the problem. There's nothing to fix and
birth. You just need someone there with
you to get you through it. Say like you're doing it, you're
already doing it. You can do it, not the Fix-It
attitude because men were kicked out of the birthing room for
years and just recently like maybe the past 20 years, they're
brought back in and they're expected to take the full burden
of helping their wife or partner through Labor.
Just doesn't It just doesn't work.
So that's what a labor Doula does.
And then postpartum doula has this is something that I find
people really don't know what it is and it's the heart of my work
because I do believe this is where a lot of the true work is.
So after you have the baby everyone's there for a few hours
and then you're alone with a new baby so you're supposed to take
care of And the majority of women in our country.
Unfortunately, according to the statistics, do not have a good
birth experience in are very traumatized.
So they're in like a PTSD response of the new baby still
recovering. So the Doula does everything
that like your loving Grandma kind of would do, she comes
over, she takes care of, you helps you with breastfeeding.
Helps you with codeine shows you how to take care of a new baby.
And this is huge, because in our culture, we don't see birth
anymore, unless it's staged in. A movie which I do not believe
an accurate representation of what birth looks like and you
don't see postpartum. You don't be postpartum like how
do you breastfeed? What do you do?
You need a wise woman at your side to teach you these things.
So that's like the full spectrum of the do love from birth
through postpartum. Wow.
How did you find that in your experience, with your Doula for
labor? Is that what you experience?
Like, she helped you advocate for yourself.
She knew your preferences. Oh, 100%.
What you're describing. So, I hired my Doula, for my
first pregnancy, the same Doula. And I was under the impression I
needed to have a C-section. And so, she said, I was the very
first person to ever hire her for C-section delivery because
again, being a minority woman and not really having Like a
support system again, it kind of like what you're saying your I
kind of felt like my husband really didn't understand the
process and he's a lot more of a, he's a chill personality.
So I was like, I kind of need somebody in there, like, not
chill because I'm not shells. I need something that's going to
be talking and advocating and paying attention and just being
able to like, hey, check this out.
Like something's going on over here, like that kind of thing.
And so I didn't want to put that feeling on my husband and I kind
of just wanted him to just be there.
So, for the C-section that I thought I was going to have
that, And I thought I was going to have a labor and then I ended
up having a c-section she was there and she was instrumental.
It just being like, Mom, you need to do this like the baby's
not doing well. And so she was my translator.
She was my, I don't know what I call.
I don't know what I would call it during my first labor, but
she, I think the best story I'll ever tell about my Doula and
it's one of the ones that she and I repeatedly tell other
people after my c-section, my legs are numb and I can't move.
I don't know where my baby is because unlike what I think is
it's just I think it's awful how we treat women after they have
babies personally. So you have a baby, they take
the baby to the NICU. You don't see them, you don't
know where they are and then they put you in a different
space, right? So you're getting your
recovering in the pacu and so, my Doula came with me and then
my husband went with the baby to the NICU.
And so, she had a other thing. People don't realize if you
don't have a doula and something like that happens, either you're
alone or the babies alone and moms always choose to be alone
and it is not Okay. They do not treat you well.
So keep going because you're going to totally make me
emotional a mess, but she stayed with me.
And that was what, I didn't know, that's what I needed.
But that's what I needed was for someone to be with me.
And so, she was getting ice chips for me.
Moving my legs starting to work off that spinal epidural.
That I had the spinal anesthesia as she was starting to work that
for me. And I kept.
She kept saying, like, do you want to see your baby?
I'm like, I do. I want to see my baby and so she
asked the nurse multiple times like, When can this mom go up
and see the baby? And she said she can't walk so
she can't go and I don't know what's going on with my kid, you
know? So she on never forget it
Kaitlyn. She looked at me and she said,
let's go, we're gonna get you in the wheelchair, you're gonna go
see your kid. That I said, I can't move my
legs and she said I'm going to get you there, just lean up
against me. So then she said just use all
you can't all your weight that you possibly can.
So I leaned over to her and I just threw my body into her and
it was at that very moment I just was such a mess and she
just sat there and started crying and she helped me back.
She said we're going to go mom. Don't worry.
So Took all her strength, she threw me into the wheelchair.
She took me up to this. You see my kid and she got me
breastfeeding and, you know, I'm just freshly cut open and she
took me and she made sure Benjamin was put on to latch and
the photos that I have of his birth.
She took in the operating room. So I have how he was born, but I
would not have had them. Had she not been there.
So, yeah, so when I got pregnant with my second I was like it's
on. My husband here is what you
could stay. She will go.
If you don't, thanks for listening to the episode.
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Now, let's get back to the episode of a wise woman at your
side to help. You you're at the mercy of the
hospital staff and how their Staffing.
And it's not I have spent a lot of time.
I actually come from a very radical perspective of birth,
which we can get into, probably not, maybe the later date
through the free bar society and they have a very critical eye of
the healthcare system, like the industrial birth complex.
They speak a lot of truth. But so I spent a lot of time,
villainizing, the healthcare system, and then I realized,
there's really no one victim. We all have our own
responsibilities in it, but if you don't have someone there to
Advocate and really look at you as a person, you just become
another number and no one sees you as a person and they don't
see your baby as a baby because I worked in the NICU for like
almost ten years. And I left because I was
starting to get really hard. Hard and callous and almost
bitter. And unless I could separate
myself from the fact that we're doing these painful procedures
to babies, who their moms are nowhere in sight, often
procedures that don't need done and they're being done for cya,
right? We have to cover our because we
live in a litigious culture and again that's not the fault of
the hospital. They have this in the back of
their minds because we live in a litigious culture and people do
Sue. Because when something happens
to your baby, you look for someone To blame its natural.
It's normal. Usually, women who have birth
trauma, go through a phase where they blame everyone including
their Doula. That's something that as a dual.
You have to, you have to sit with and understand.
So yeah, like you said, if you don't have anyone there you're
alone, there's no way you're going to see your baby and do
you know if you would have been able to breastfeed at that latch
and happen, who knows the photos?
Yeah, I would have never been able to see the birth either
because the the wall is up, right?
So you're separated from birth. Totally separate you.
Yes, your separate like physically, you just watch the
baby go, the baby leaves and you're just, I had to beg to
touch his face. I remember asking and then my
Doula screaming, she would be screaming the things that I
wanted. Like she wanted vaginal seating
and she was screaming the things that I wanted.
It was like my voice. She was my voice when I because
when I was hire process, the entire process is based in
dehumanization from the second. You walk through the door.
No one is listening to the moms. I've been to so many of these
actions more than I can count. And no one is listening to them.
If you don't have an advocate, you're in huge trouble.
And you mentioned this a little bit.
And I don't want to get too much into the political correctness
or not. But if you're a woman of color
or a minority in any way if you don't fit the picture, perfect
cookie cutter image of an educated white woman. run from
the hospital even if you educate yourself to the nines, if you
don't have an advocate and you don't have a plan, You walk in
there and it's it's risky. Like the risks that districts.
Say that huge. Yeah.
That's it. Istic.
Say that. You're not saying any more
terrifying. Yeah.
And I told it to all my friends that are African-American.
In fact, a lot of them have told me they will get doulas.
They are getting doulas because they need someone there speaking
for them. And again, I've had my friends
share stories about how the Doula was like, she's still
bleeding. And that's not that's abnormal.
And so like, then the patient could go like wait check.
You know, it allows you to know what you're supposed to be is
what it allows you to know, what you may not know because
somebody else has been through so many births and has so much
experience that they're able to show you and to go, Hey, listen,
let me help you navigate and it hey, you make the decision but
I'm going to let you know what your options are and that's what
my dad did in my second birth. Which is why I know I was
successful at a vbac. Even though I had a planned
C-section, I had a plan C-section, and then when I went
in, I told her. I woke up the shoes up.
At like, 3:00 in the morning, and I messaged her and said, I
want to be checked and she said, okay, I'm getting ready for your
C-section again. Forced, I'm getting ready for
your C-section to be there, but if you want to get checked,
let's go. So, we cheat.
You got checked and I told her, I said, she's dilating me, my
cervix is going is dilating. Things are happening.
I want to wait, and she said, alright.
So we're laboring and so that's what, that's what and that's how
she had walked me through that whole process.
Each time she this mom wants to move, Move, can we get her on
the portable baby monitor? I said there's a point where she
said, yeah, there's a portable one.
You can wear any, you're a healthcare professional.
I work in healthcare, I've been in health care for David 20
years. Like if you are not a healthcare
professional, like you said, if you don't have someone
translating what they're saying, you have no idea what's going on
in. This is part of like the power
Dynamic that that play is they. I have been in so many Health
Care situations where it's a lot easier if the patient is Is
clueless and says, yes to everything, it's really hard.
When you get assigned the educated badass woman, who wants
to advocate for herself is hard. Like, they don't want to have
the shift in power Dynamic, where you have just as much
knowledge and just as much choice.
Not, because they're evil people, it's just the system is
set up to put so much pressure on them.
That it's so much easier if you just go with the flow and do
whatever they want, they it's so much faster.
Go do a repeat C-section. Yes, the doctors in and out.
The bill is huge. They built for so many more
things versus spending 24 hours with a woman, trying to work
through her emotional. She can become a mom.
People want to do that, then the labor and delivery nurses, do it
the best they can, but they're still under so much pressure
till I get there. Charting done, get their vitals
taken, get the baby check to write in the chart, the baby's
heart rate. Because what if something
happens, they have to have that documentation that baby's heart
rate was checked. The whole system.
The system works because it serves itself.
I used to think the system doesn't work but it works.
They make a lot of money, hmm. Wow, it's rough.
But when you have a dual and then you have this like it helps
you open doors to things. You never thought were possible.
Would you even had a scheduled C-section and you got to
experience what it's like to have a vbac and there's nothing
wrong with scheduling, your C-section and having your
C-section, but it's sad to me when women do that because they
think It's their only choice and they feel like it's their only
choice. If it's something that they want
and that they choose, that's just as valid.
But if you want a chance to have you back, how do you know you
can do it? Someone has to tell you like.
Yes, you can do it. You can do it.
You got this. Yes.
And you know what is so funny to my Doula actually had that
conversation with me. She said, exactly what you said,
you guys are all of, like, kind of a hive mind because she kept
when I told her I was super doing this.
Repeat C-section. She's like, yes, you know, but
you haven't. Are you on the table at all?
For a vbac, I said. No, no, I'm not.
I'm not I'm not doing it because I didn't, I didn't labor with
Benji, I'm I don't see, it's not gonna look good for Penelope
like she's like, okay, well I hear you.
So she had that same conversation of like, okay, but
you I want I want to make sure you're hearing that like it's on
the table and I'm like, yeah, but it's not you know, like so
she let me do that. Emotional work and then
emotional labor and then she kind of gave me my space and by
doing that it allowed me to kind of work around and go like Okay.
But what if, but what if, but what if maybe she's amazing?
Every piece Haley, you? Yes, the seat is there.
And then you hear me back and he even subconsciously like you
listen, which is before you probably would have been like,
oh, but that's not for me that can't be me.
But then you start listening and you hear other women's stories
and you realize it's a reality that could very well be yours.
But until you know about something you don't know a
different reality except for the one you live in.
Exactly. So it's amazing that she offered
you. That?
Yes, no. She did, she wanted me to keep
it open and I was very closed off to it and then again as she
planted those seeds and I really began to walk through it.
I was like, well what if I got to give her a shot?
How do I not give her a shot? How do I not get this day?
How do you think I say? Like, okay.
So what's the point of this, right?
So I would say, how did that change your experience?
How did that change? How you mother?
How did that change? Who you are as a woman?
Wow, I was not expecting an answer questions.
I was supposed to be asking you questions.
Sorry. But it to do a fashion.
I was headed down deep. I'm deep in it.
Okay, forget what? It's a great question.
Because again, that's what she does.
That's what she does. She makes she sat down
postpartum with me and walk through the whole birth.
We went through the whole timeline.
It was cathartic just to talk about it.
She's like, tell me your story and the healing.
From where I was to, where I ended.
Yeah, we had this Mantra that I can do all things through
Christ. Who strengthens me?
I did not have this baby. I don't want to like, wear it as
a badge, but what I do know, is that by listening to my body and
going, I don't want pitocin, I don't want it.
And I said that before the baby and I said it now, I don't want
it. And she going, you don't want
pitocin. You've already said that, you
remember. And I was like, yeah.
And to go You do this or or, or we go for a C-section because
I'm not willing to put my body at that, right?
She let me hear and navigate through and that's what I feel
like. I had a different birth instead
of a birth that I felt like I was just tossed around with the
first. I felt like I even though the
waves were coming, okay, the waves were all over.
I felt like I had a little bit more.
I had a, I felt more empowered and that I was going.
Going. Okay, let's go in that
direction. All right, that's what we need
to do. We're going to walk here.
We're going to walk there. And so that's how it was
different for me that this first births experience.
The first birth experience was, was not empowered.
I just felt almost like kind of like what you're saying this
PTSD type thing and then the second one, it was just kind of
like I look back and I can see the steps and I can put the
puzzle pieces together. That's what she kept saying.
During my birth, we're going to just watch.
We're going to have puzzle pieces come in, and we're going
to figure out where they need to go.
And so, I figure I feel like that's what we did and that's
what I walked away from that birth experience, feeling like I
just needed a quiet, my soul and listen to what what I was
hearing and it was different. It was very different and it was
very healing. It was probably the best way
that I can describe between the two birth experiences.
And then the connection that you have with your child, I mean,
having her on my chest is a lot different than having him way
over there. You know, where I can't reach
him. I can't touch him.
I'm having her on my chest and just telling her like, welcome
to the world. Like, it was just a completely
different experience and I know 100% my Doula was.
A big facilitator of why that happened and why I want more
people to hear about what it is that you do.
And for nurses that are maybe feeling that exact same way,
like, I'm looking at the system and I'm just not feeling like
we're giving good care or whatever.
It is that you're starting to see within your work, that this
is a legitimate side. Hustle that will change people's
lives. It will change a woman's life to
have a doula by her bedside and it will give you the energy to
maybe go back to that nurse. That nurse job that you have
with a renewed sense of I'm doing a passion work which
incredibly I'm getting paid for which is so cool.
And they also, you know, can't believe that and then I'm also
doing this other work that is in a different vein but it's still
very good and still bringing about things because I you know
my labor and delivery. Nurses did do a good job.
They worked really hard that I think the people are generally
made me kind of like you say they're working within a broken
system and they're making the best of it that they Can and we
need good people in those systems, will get back in those
systems. Because if you don't have good
people, we've got broken systems and bad people.
So, at least get some good people in a broken system and
then for the women felt like you said, it's like how do you stay
in the system and not crush your soul?
Find something you love. So you can still see it with
like the eyes of a child instead of this like bitter aged person.
So you can still see your patience and your families and
as individuals and then you know, like you said when it
comes to It changes everything when a woman sees that she's the
only source of power. She's the only person that can
birth this baby. No one has any power over her.
It's just this illusion that you lose control when you walk
through those doors and you don't have someone there saying
like no you got this. This is your decision when you
start to birth and mother from your intuition No one can with
you forever, you can read the blogs and get stressed about the
blog's. You can take all the advice you
want from the outside. But when you start to mother
from your intuition, and I believe this comes from Martha
listening to your body, like you said, knowing you don't need the
pitocin. You've got this, you can do it
comes from inside, it changes, everything.
It changes who you are, it changes?
How you mother, no one can mess with, you know, system has
control over you. Do you want to change the world
like work with women and birth? And you mentioned she.
So I assume your second baby is a girl. okay, so think of what
you gave her having that first, She'll always know like, no, we
can do this because we're women and your birth stories in your
bones, right? So your grandma who was well, my
grandma. I think your is probably as well
who was, you know, knocked out for her birth in the baby was
ripped out of her, that's in your bones and it's in hers but
now she has a new story. I love this stuff.
Makes me cry. Yeah.
Me too. Yeah, there's no greater gift
than what you gave your daughter like love as soon as she was
born. Anyways, girl, I love.
Do I make you guys are like birds and everything.
Well, if you're obsessed with breasts, like me like versus
everything, it changes your story, your whole story.
And yeah, the way that minorities has been treated in
the past In Obstetrics, the history of obstetrics it's so
dark but you are able to have a birth where this system sort.
Do you write you have This amazing birth and experience for
your daughter and your daughter will always have that with her
and you know, whatever birth choices she makes and how she
mothers will be affected by that.
Yes. Oh, you are so right?
Oh girl, girl, so, how did you always bring tissues?
I know. I just I'm like, yeah.
So how did you for the woman? That's like, okay, I'm sold.
I want to go do this. It sounds, this sounds
incredible. These two women, I think.
I want to go figure this out. How did you become a doula?
Like, what did you do after your master's degree in nursing?
Did you take a like a course, my battery's about to die?
I'm gonna go grab my brother. No worries.
Okay. So there's a lot of options
there are. So, I was in NICU nurse, and
then a pediatric nurse practitioner.
So, I had a lot of the, like, Hospital stuff.
So, I felt like I got that really well.
And then I had a home birth with my son, so I got the other
perspective. So you can take there's a ton of
classes online. And depending on Where you're
coming from, you can go like the cheaper online certification
route which is totally fine and see what certification you want
based on their values and I would just look at the different
programs online and see if you align with their values.
I actually chose to go the so some of the women I work with
are certified to Liz and they maintain a certification with
like Franco or a Donna or a big organization which is awesome
and they offer continuing education.
That is a great way to start and you can find an in-person to lat
Help you go to a birth and they'll usually like Mentor you
through a birth. If you can have in person in
person mentorship, that's amazing.
But you don't need it, you can do an online course and just put
yourself out there and start taking clients and some people
start free or lower price to get the experience.
So I did the radical birth keeper School through pre-birth
society which is the extreme radical version.
Yeah. Because I was coming from the
extreme radical mindset of the The hospital.
So I needed to like break that so I could see everything.
So I think it very much, depends on where you're coming from.
Some people say like oh you have to be certified through Don, are
this organization? This is the best but I think you
have to look at your own personal background to see what
would serve you best. But yeah, certification is a
great way because you can get connected with other women and
get like a preceptor to help you attend birth when you're first
learning. But really, if you show up with
an answer, Ben's heart and you just serve the woman.
That's there. You'll do a good job.
Yeah, you have to show up to serve her.
Yeah. How do you sum all the other
thought process? Is how do you differentiate
between your role as a nurse practitioner, in your role, as a
doula? Because I feel like sometimes
you could probably kind of get in trouble with.
Like I know you like she does a good job.
Least. My duel is like I don't do that
because I'm in this dual role so like I can't you know so how do
you kind of A shape between that.
Yeah. So I'm really clear that it.
I'm not in a medical capacity at all when I'm supporting you as a
dual out, whether that's birth for postpartum, especially
postpartum like I'm a pediatric nurse practitioner so that lends
shapes everything I see in a baby.
I tell the what I believe women are very intelligent and we
don't need to Baby them. Give them the information,
they'll make the right decision. I tell them I'm not a medical
practitioner in this capacity. I'm just here to support you
emotionally spiritually and I will give you tips on baby care
and taking care of your baby. And I have them sign an
agreement. In part of it in there, has a
very clear. You might think harsh statement
that I'm not responsible for your health, you're responsible
for every decision you make for your health and the health of
your baby. There's even And we always have
a conversation about death. Always because that to me is the
easiest way to see a woman's True Values where she's coming
from, where she thinks the responsibility of death lies
that conversation by the end of it.
You know, if you're if you're on the same page to work with the
client or if you guys have different different views of
your role. So that's how I do it.
I think the conversation about death is very key and then I
have a very clear agreement that they sign.
So we both signed That says, you're responsible for the
health of your family, your baby, your choices.
I'm there to support you does that make design is kind of
answer your question. Yeah.
So that's how I do it. It's clear.
I've never had an issue. Women, totally understand that.
Yeah, no, it's true. And I sign something, you know,
or, you know, agreed that the right thing.
Yeah. Like because she's just there to
again, these are decisions that I was making again, she says the
puzzle pieces come in and then we sort them.
And then you decide what you think that that is saying and
then I support you in that and whatever that is.
And again, she's been with me through a C-section in through a
vaginal birth. And so we that she's yeah.
So she's been with me and so she knows like I she thought we were
going for another repeat C-section.
She's like you're the only person that calls me for a
repeat C-section. Because I know like again like
you said, the mom gets kind of left and if the baby has to go
again. Yeah, I said, I want, I want you
with me, and then I want my husband free to go so that he
can stay with the baby. And yeah.
And And throughout this again, just kind of wrapping up the
business portion because you, and I could totally talk I think
all day but about the business portion about kind of working
the business, what would you say?
Is one of been one of the hardest things since becoming an
entrepreneur and being a nurse practitioner, that was hard for
you to kind of Master. And then a part that was like,
this is easy. Like I can do this all day
because I was a nurse. So how does the nursing
background kind of help you in either challenging you or help
you in making Do something easy. So the networking, the social
relationships that stuff is like butter.
It's really easy for me. It's my genius, I'm conflict
avoidant. So when there are situations
that are uncomfortable sticky and not smooth, that's really
hard for me to show up. So I've only had it happened
once, there was a disagreement between a client in a doula that
I contracted the workout to and it was really hard for me to
like set up those phone calls and show up and deal with the
complex head on. So, that has been the most
challenging aspect for me. As I just want to make like
everyone happy and I did figure out pretty quickly.
Not everyone's going to like you, if you do what you love and
you, yeah, it is what it is. That was the hardest part for
me, which is surprising, because I thought it would be, like,
figuring out the finances or admin work.
But, yeah, that was the trampoline.
Yeah, it's dealing with the people, they caught ya.
The contract work has brought up more challenges for me and
realizing that it's almost always gray and you never When
an argument well, it's yeah, sometimes you're not not.
Everyone's going to be happy with the outcome if you're in a
business, yeah, what would you say to a young Caitlin starting
off on her career? If you would have known, what
you could have done with all with your license?
With your certifications, with your Genius?
If you could go back and tell Caitlin, at the start of your
nursing career, as an, you know, BSN working in the NICU, one
thing. To kind of hold onto.
What would it be that you would tell her?
That's a great question. Like don't put yourself in a box
like all because you've never thought about doing it.
Doesn't mean you can do it and you're probably gonna fail a
lot. Like I think I was afraid of
failing and trying something new.
And I thought, okay, well I'm good at Nick you and I'm good at
this, I'll just do this forever. So I would have been like try it
sooner you're going to fail, not like you might fail, it might
not work out. No.
Like you're definitely going to fail it several things, and then
it will all work out and you'll find out what you're really good
at. So I would say, anyone new
starting out at this, just try it and accept the fact that
you're going to fail a lot. Yeah.
Right. You're going to mess up?
Yeah, it's not going to go. It's not going to go perfect.
The plans. I love this analogy or two
things to say to that versus success is not a linear.
Mine. It's like the squiggly line that
goes all around and goes up and down and like it's like EKG,
right? Like there's ups and there's
loads and there's waves and these things and so that is
normal. That's you trying something new.
That means you're alive, okay? If you have any kg, I've got a
QRS wave, that means you're alive and so keep living, you
know, that's the first thing. And then the second thing I was
thinking about is the reason why I love what you do.
I am passionate about hearing people having people hear what
it is that you do. You do is because I believe that
men go to war and women have babies.
I think that these are our two things, right?
And there are two things that are very specific to our sex,
right? Men fight or whatever it is,
freedom, whatever like they want to fix it, right?
Like you described, they want to save the country they want to do
these things. Right?
And that's kind of men, but women, I think our equivalent
is, we bring in children, we bring in the Next Generation.
We, we keep our society going, right?
So we need them fighting for our values so that we can bring the
people in. And to a world that has those
values that we fought for right. So it's such a beautiful
symbiotic relationship but that's what I always tell my
husband. And what I believe very strongly
in my heart, is that doulas go into the battle with you, you
are not alone with a doula and a doula, you know, stands next to
you and helps you fight and she hands, you, whatever that sort
is or whatever that is, as you bring that, that next person
into the world and I feel very strongly Ali.
That a doula is someone that you want in your corner, it's
someone that you want, helping you to fight a battle that only
you can do. There's no, you can't do this
out, you can't. I mean for me, I believe that
only I can give birth to this, you know, our children and so I
just think it is. It is what you guys do with such
an incredible service to the world that any nurse that
decides, to pick this up as a side hustle, and to run with
this will just again, Like I said, bring so much to those
that they helped. I think it's an incredible thing
that you do. So I hopefully I explained it as
perfectly as I felt like, I could that my, my admiration for
your profession and what you guys are doing.
So, thank you for coming out and before you go because to do
rapid fire. So rapid fires just by the seat
of your pants, quick answer and since we talked a little bit and
I'll change some of the questions.
I normally ask since I know you don't watch TV but are you ready
for Rapid Fire? What are you most grateful for
in the whole wide world? My family, your family.
And if you could give a book to somebody, what book would you
give great and sweet grass? Have you read it?
It's on my list. I have a patient that gives me
book recommendations and he told me I needed to read that book.
Yeah, Frieda. I'm almost done.
It's a game-changer together. It's really good.
It's okay. Okay.
And then, do you play board games?
I don't know if you're a board game family.
Oh, my husband loves them. I try any time?
I go out early, so, which one are you?
It's like you get wood or different supplies and it's
really big. It's pretty good, it's not bad.
It's like you know I did you get wood and supplies?
I think it's like I like working some type of settlement thing
you have low citizens of Catan? No, that's not.
Yeah. Yeah, that it is that, okay?
Okay, because I actually do like board games so like like Pseudo,
I'm good. Okay, a lot because he loves
them, but I yeah, if there's any every time that like the whole
family's plane, and I can sneak away, I'm like the kitchen.
We'll play that. And that's, oh, thanks for
coming on today. Give a Shameless plug where
people can find you. If they are, like, I want to
figure this out because they know that you do contract work
with doulas, right? So now, like, yeah, you're kind
of the head duel and then you have doulas of underneath you
that you send out in you guys. Of manage people that way.
So give a Shameless plug for your business.
People can find you absolutely. So you can find me at Wild
mother passed.com and while mother passed on Instagram, if
you're in the greater Charlotte Area, even like Fort Mill, Rock
Hill, I have a lot of clients of that way.
I would love to connect with you.
If you have any questions, all three things home birth.
I also do that because North Carolina and South Carolina,
have some strange laws around this.
So, part of what I do is speak with women about their options
in North Carolina, because the options aren't publicized
because Right now. Midwives are technically
practicing illegally in the state of North Carolina so it's
wild mother but yeah, we got, we could you talk even more about
well mother? Wow.
Yeah, that sounds awesome guys. Check her out.
And again, let's always enjoy the journey of your career.
Thanks for hanging out. Thank you so much.
Thank you. I love you mama and thanks for
letting me so that's a wrap. Be sure to subscribe to the show
so you don't miss an episode and leave me a review.
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Reminder, the information on this podcast is for educational
purposes only and the information should not be used
in substitute for Professional Care by a medical provider.
The information in this podcast does not represent medical or
professional advice or services. message me at the doctor nurse
podcast at gmail.com with any career professions that you're
interested in hearing about and just a friendly.
Reminder, the information on this podcast is for educational
purposes only and the information should not be used
in substitute for Professional Care by a medical provider.
The information in this podcast does not represent medical or
professional advice or services.