Hi there. My name is dr.
Presenta, and I'm the host of the doctor nurse podcast.
I'm an advanced nurse practitioner and I want to be
your guide into the world of nursing professions.
This podcast is a platform for nurses to share their Journeys
as they made their way in the diverse field of nursing as
either entrepreneurs, Academia private, practice or even the
corporate world. I think we should celebrate just
how diverse the field of nursing is through mentoring one.
Another, with the stories of our career.
Journeys. Nothing is too mundane because
each journey is unique. This podcast will showcase
career options to encourage nurses to view their degrees
with a business mindset. After all we work in the
healthcare business and ultimately I hope I might
inspire you to make a change. If you're looking for something
different, I am motivated to see you live, your best, nursing
life and that looks different for everyone.
Thanks for joining me on today's podcast.
And let's get started with today's guests.
Hey guys this week on the podcast I have Eric a nurse
practitioner, he has work experience in oncology research,
Primary Care and Pain Management.
He utilizes his expertise in psychedelic assisted healing to
educate nurses, Health Providers, and patients
preparing for the moment when these compounds become available
for patient, searching for a new way of healing as an adult nurse
practitioner here. Scribes ketamine infusions and
offers alternative modalities for pain management.
For patients, who have exhausted traditional therapies?
Let's hear from Eric. Hi, Eric.
Welcome to the doctor nurse podcast.
I'm so happy to have my first male guest on today.
Welcome, thank you so much. So happy to be here, happy to
have you. So let's Dive Right In again,
going back. A cure from the great state of
California. And you have this really
interesting background and plant medicine, can you cut a describe
to us what your current role or job title is right now.
So I am the nurse practitioner in a pain clinic at the Camp.
Pendleton Naval Hospital that is my day job.
My passion, my thing that I am doing on the side is building a
platform to educate nurses about psychedelics and plant.
And it has been just a joy to research it and to plan it and
to get the word out about these incredible compounds for
healing. So when you say plant medicine,
might be a lot of people out there that are hippie there,
like peace, love and plants, but really dive into what it is that
you are educating nurses on, what are the modalities.
So the idea around the plant medicines is that these
wonderful substances have been relegated.
And to research and even that has been difficult since about
1970, when the government made the scheduled drug laws, right?
So all of these medicines that we have used as a human species
for Millennia, were stuck into a category called schedule, one
drugs, which basically are considered to have no use at
all. Right there, just tucked away
locked away. If you're found with them,
you're imprisoned. So it created a situation where
the The scientists and the doctors and the health
practitioners. And all of the people sort of
wanted to looking into these substances again for research,
they had to petition the government.
In order to get access in order to get the IRB going for
research, they had to basically beg the government.
Now, what you have, as a result of that is 50 years of no usage
of this medicine. As I've I'm just dork out on
this stuff, right? So I really enjoyed so you'd
have to be sleeping under a rock not to have heard a little bit
about what's happening. I think it's on.
Front page of the New York Times.
We're starting to see phase 3 trials now, where it's coming,
back that yes, medicine. Such as what would street drugs
would be called ecstasy LSD. These, these medicines are
having profound effects on people who are really stuck,
people who are treatment resistant depression, who suffer
terrible PTSD, who have Eating Disorders, any number of mental
health maladies are being cured by these by these compounds or
at least they're making progress right here.
It is a hardware to mental health but The progress is
occurring because these medicines are able to snap
people out of their there. They're stuck Paradigm, right?
So my my thing is let's rehabilitate what everybody
thinks of is the 60s. Gateway drugs that are horrible
for you. Let's rethink.
These has medicines that generate from initially from
Plants, even when you think about LSD, which is a chemical,
the the derivative is from her got right from from a fungus
that grows on rye bread, that's what was being toyed.
With when LSD was discovered, okay?
So it was all goes back to some form of plant that we have
chosen to ingest and has given us experiences.
That allow us an alternate State of Consciousness, interesting?
So I just think this is so cool. Whenever you're educating and
you're Distributing, this information?
Are you working as a guide like helping patients, use this
stuff? Or are you just saying we need
to get the word out that all these drugs that we give
patients. Actually probably based on
medicine that we no longer use the kind of chemically altered
and changed. And now, we are giving this
altered state of this plant. Why not?
Go to the plant? How are you getting that
information out? So not guiding at this time
directly for patients outside of the fact that I do participate,
I do write for ketamine, which is anestis o.c. of an aesthetic
that is used traditionally in medicine.
It's for anesthesia, obviously putting doing surgery.
Hurry and putting someone under. But what, what ketamine has a
psycho? Psycho Tropic properties.
And if you, if you don't give the full dose, right?
So putting them into a state where you can operate but keep
them in sort of a Twilight where the patient is pre there sedated
but completely out, there's this there's this psychedelic aspect
to the medicine and that I do prescribed and I do talk with my
patients about their experiences and try to help them mostly.
That's reserved in the pain practice.
That's Herbs for people with pain that doesn't respond to
other modalities. So central pain syndromes like
complex regional pain syndrome or sometimes it's helpful for
even, even for something simpler like a migraine, or a
fibromyalgia patient, where there's no other good medicine
involved and they're chronically in pain and they never see
themselves below a 7 on the 0 to 10 Pain.
Scale, people who are really suffering from from a chronic
condition can benefit from a little bit of ketamine.
So with that, It is the one thing that I am prescribing and
interacting with patients around the rest is sort of listen
nurses, we need to prepare for this.
It is coming. The the FDA is pushing towards
reviewing all this stuff for approval, and we need to
understand what it is. Our patients are asking for why
they want it. What they've heard, you need to
be a step ahead, so that you can answer the questions and not be
shocks. That that's my concern.
Is that an, ER, nurse is going to come across somebody who's
taken too much X, Y or Z, Students.
And they're, they're not going to recognize that this is what
is occurring, right? So if we educate ourselves about
the mechanism of action, the on set, the amount of time that it
stays in the system, what a what a what a patient presents.
Like we can do some harm reduction, we can help that
patient stabilized. Alternatively, if they're coming
to us to say, look, I heard about this, I read this article.
I really am stuck with my therapist or my dose of Prozac
is not doing it anymore. I really having a hard time
struggling and I've heard about this thing.
I've heard about psycho Malik, assisted psychotherapy.
What can you tell me? I don't want the nurse to have
that look in their eyes, like, oh, but I thought that was a
Woodstock thing, right? Woodstock is here.
It sounds like it's upon us. And so I actually find this
really interesting because I was recently reading a book by tab
in Greenfield called boundless, and he is a really big biohacker
and it's a 30-hour audiobook, right?
So it's pretty heavy and I was reading it and he talks a lot
about like micro dosing. With psychedelics and how that
helps with the creative aspect. And of course, there's legality
issues surrounding this. That we, I'm not going to do
that on today's podcast whatsoever, but I just find
that, I think you're right. I think that people are starting
to introduce this into their mainstream Lifestyles.
I don't think. I think that he's got a really
big following and I find it hard to believe that people aren't
listening to him. I think that this is where
things are going because I think there is this Level of distrust
with the way that medications are being doled out.
And the way that certain drugs and compounds make people feel,
it's kind of like well why not try this?
If it's especially if they can do it in a way that could be
safe? I think we need to be ready for
this coming down the pipeline from our patients.
Absolutely. Its people are are getting the
word from people that they, that they may trust people who might
be a conservative or otherwise unexposed to this suddenly it's
being Featured on a episode of goop on Netflix, right?
He's got Joe Rogan is expounding this.
There's all sorts of ways in which it's getting out there.
The hesitation in the problem that we're trying to avoid is we
don't want another Timothy, Leary explosion people with
access and experimentation and sort of letting the genie out of
the bottle prematurely, we want to sort of control this and keep
people make your patients aware but have the hard pause button
on until such time as they can be super.
Advised by a clinician. Wow, that is so cool.
What a neat Niche, you are in. So how did you get to this
specific spot in your career? What was your journey that led
you to this Niche? So just I'm a career changer.
I went back to school. I started off in acting school
back and out of high school and worked not as an actor, but as a
person who divides money that is paid to actors.
So when you back in the day, when you rented your video from
the local video store, I would take that money and separate it
out. Out to the writer director
actor, I was called residuals calculations, I did that for the
better, part of the 90s before I went back to school and decided
to go ahead and pursue a bachelor's and that was a whole
time when I was in Berkeley, I got involved in hospice
volunteering. When I did the training for
hospice volunteer work, the facilitator said we don't have
to do a whole lot of screening people.
Usually don't turn up for this if they're not called to it.
So so I then met my wife to be. Be who recommended nursing
school and I had been an Arts guy.
I've always been seen and always been kind of frightened of
Science and Math and kept it to a minimum but realized that this
was going to be the best path towards that kind of work of
end-of-life care was towards nursing.
So went back to night school. After that experience at
Berkeley and got myself the prerequisites for nursing
school. Which as we all know, is the
anatomy. The physiology, the statistics
things that I had avoided well into my 30s and managed to give
it. Through and get into a good
school and went to nursing school and that landed me in
oncology during my rotations, and oncology was close enough to
see those people who are doing well.
But there are also a lot of end of lifers.
And I learned a lot there and then I was trying to get to
hospice, but they wouldn't let you directly go without
experience. So I thought well, pain
management would be a good route.
So I took my first job in pain, how North Carolina and a private
pain clinic working for one doc with one other PA and that was
Intense and interesting experience learning to get
comfortable with at that time, this was before the opioid
crisis, this was opioid crisis in the making so Hopi crisis,
was that the opioid crisis that we find ourselves in?
Now, sadly, I'm a little guilty of that kind of a practice that
I was involved in and about 10 12 years ago before we before we
knew we were not aware of what we were creating.
I don't think and so I was in a practice that did that for about
a year before I went into Primary Care was a great
experience. Of course you learn a near As a
primary carrier, just the Jack of all trades, master of none,
as opposed to this pain, specialist who, which I've now
after six years in Primary Care I've circled back to pain
medicine and realize how talk about a niche.
I mean that is just your thinking about the same 45
medicines. The same 45 procedures while
every patient is different and every pain, presentation is
different. That particular way of looking
at the patient and trying to get to the bottom of what is ailing,
them is a very specific thing. And so I found myself looking
Looking for Alternatives and came across a group called nurse
prune. Oars, and that gave me, I took a
course with them talking about how do you free your brain?
How do you free your mind? How do you become a entrepreneur
in nursing? And I went through the steps and
the, the program is very good. And I wound up with this idea
that passion of mine is psychedelic plant medicine, and
although, I'm not a psychiatric mental health practitioner, that
realm really is always interested me, and I found
Myself making packed with that group, to sort of broaden my
horizons and figure out a way to educate, start off, going into
education about the realm of psychedelic medicine and
preparing. For the point, when we might be
able to open a practice, my wife is a psychiatric nurse
practitioner. And so we between the two of us
prepared to sort of a couple yeah.
Yeah, prepare to venture into that realm, once the medicines
are approved and we can forget ourselves into sort of an
integrative clinic will be prepared to to go and at your
current job. Are you doing procedures within
the scope of your license or you just prescribing medication?
Are you just seeing patients in chronic pain States?
Because now here in Florida, we don't prescribe pain medication
for more than like three days and if you're dying and there's
something going on with pain, we're just like, go.
See your chronic pain specialist, we don't know how to
help you. And so that's kind of where
we've gone, which again, feels kind of lacking, but it's just
the way that the system is now we are the Position was created
with the naval hospital as part of congressional funding source,
she keep people off of opiates and figure out Alternatives.
So, if a marine or an able person is worldwide, Deployable
they cannot be on a chronic opiate.
And so, we have to find all the Alternatives possible to help
them. So, in my practice I'm doing
Botox protocol for migraines for trigger point injections, I use
trigger point injections into the The muscles that bother
people. These marines, we work in a
multidisciplinary group. So we've got a physical
therapist on board. An acupuncturist, we have the
docs, do the stellate ganglion. Blocks they do the spinal
injections. So epidural steroid injections
Branch blocks the usual things that you would find in a bank
account in town. But the number of patients I
have on a chronic opioid, I can count on on my hands.
They really aren't meant to stay on those medicines, which is a
great relief or the Difference from where I started in a pain
clinic out in the community. Eric I just think it is so neat
and you're going to you're making such a big difference and
to hear that you guys are working to get people off of
opioids. And it just shows like how much
we were mistreating those patient before if you can just
count them on your hands now and it's true.
I also worked as an oncology nurse and I remember I thought
it was so wrong when you're Doling out pain meds to someone
who was depressed, right? You see See it, and they're
sick. And that's not a fallacy.
I remember, just knowing it just intuitively as a nurse that, I'm
not treating physical pain. I'm treating a mental pain, a
depression and anxiety, there's something else going on.
And I was treating it with morphine and Oxycodone.
Like, and I knew it because it was like all the lights were off
and I can't even see the patient's face like to this day
and that was almost 15 years ago.
Like I just remember the lights were off in his room, he never
spoke and even though he was clinically fine, And there was
nothing going on with his disease process.
I was keeping him in like this drug to State because he didn't
want to cope with what he had to deal with, what his eyes opened
up, and it was just really a felt wrong.
It was just like I don't think this guy needs another
oxycodone. Like he needs.
It like a therapist or I don't know like whatever psychedelic
or thing that could just keep him functioning and not so just
taken down by depression and absolutely.
Those are the primary patients that.
An interest me the the end-of-life anxiety, the anxiety
around cancer of the issues and quality of life.
Some of the studies from the 60s.
I just love, you'll have to. Excuse me, Sandra.
I don't work out. But I mean, I pour through these
old studies from the 50s and 60s that are there's tons of them.
There were thousands of studies done before the mandate to go
schedule, one with these medicines and they got locked
away. But some of the really
interesting data shows exactly what you're saying that they
would they were trialing D for pain and and what they found was
that the patients were recording extraordinary remission of their
pain. It should have been very painful
from the size of the tumors in the kind of cancers that they
were battling. But at the time it was much
easier to say to ask the doctor for pain medicine for their back
that it was to talk about their fear and their existential
anxiety because this is the 50s and the 60s, this is Buck Up
Buttercup. You don't talk about those
things, right? We forget that, we've come at
least to the point now, where we can talk about our feelings,
that was not so much the case back in the at that time frame.
And so the Breakthrough of the Psychedelic, really put the pain
in perspective, put their lives in perspective, gave them away
to be hopeful and it's hard. It's really hard to explain
unless you're there. But just to know that the right
guide with the right medication for the right patient can make
all the difference in the world than a patient.
Like that who's clearly depressed and yes, they're in
pain. But the pain is really what's
driving. It is just a factor adding Their
existential depression, I agree with you.
I don't know if you've read this book, I just think it's so it's
a really good book. It's called molecules of
emotion. Why you feel the way you feel?
And it's by Candace pert and it was recommended to me by another
guest. And in the book she talks about
the effect of medications, I think it would have been
ketamine and that she had during her time in the hospital and she
describes how it passes the blood-brain barrier and affect
the Consciousness and states of Consciousness.
I remember reading a book and just being very mesmerized and
that's what led her into a level of research that she went into.
And so I also find that these medications can bring about
creativity and unlock parts of your brain, that you might not
even been aware where there is that something that you've
experienced or you're familiar with?
Yes. Absolutely.
The the way in which the medicine works on the default
mode Network, which is the place where we operate in the world.
From what we, what we recognize is predictable, We respond where
our Baseline is for the healthy adult or the healthy individual
is fine. That's our that's our protective
area that we interact with everyone and everything with but
for the person who's clinically and chronically, depressed,
let's say they're coming from a place of being being stuck in
the mud. They cannot sometimes, they
can't get out of bed. Because what's the point?
All of those kind of thoughts that keep people stuck in a
state of inactivity and when these medicines Sian's break,
open that default mode Network, and create a new way of
thinking. And it is, we get down to the
pathophysiology. The science of this, there are
molecules passing through the blood-brain barrier and you're
essentially creating new connections, new neural
connections where there were previously it's like I use the
analogy of shaking up the snow globe.
So you look at that snow globe and all the Snows in the bottom,
that's kind of the default mode Network.
And when you shake it up and all that snow falls all over the Is
that is what the Psychedelic medicine, whether it's ketamine
LSD, MDMA, it's going to shake it up and make all sorts of
possibilities. Open up for that purpose.
So thank you for sharing that. I think it's really interesting.
So, give me an example, of one of the biggest successes or
highs in your career. As you've gone along this
journey to plant medicine, having students enroll and give
me a fee for service and Performing those three workshops
here. Recently was was Was the
highlight for sure. Just a launching something.
Putting it out there having people say, yes, I'm interested.
Sign on the sign on the dotted line venmo you some money and
wait for you to give them information is.
That's definitely the highlight of this so far.
There's also these you could pick out your patients that
you've helped along the way, right?
Even with ketamine having people have breakthrough, seeing the
medicine work and not worry about them because you're in a
hospital setting. And if anything goes wrong with
ketamine your, you can call a code as opposed to the the Fear
of having your own private Clinic where here that's sort
of. One of the barriers for me is
like, oh my gosh, what would I do?
If although if never seems to happen at least in the hospital.
But so helping people break through and actually showing
putting the proofs in the pudding.
Right where you where you see the ketamine help someone who
has been like you're describing lights off in the dark in there.
Chronic pain and have a breakthrough that is an amazing
high but I think for me personally the the idea of not
being a Person who depends on the man for the paycheck for the
rest of my life. I had a glimpse of this
possibility, right? That if you build it they will
come. That is for sure a thing.
So I think I quoted that on my last broadcast if you build it
they will come. It's so true.
And I think it is so interesting that moment that you realize
like I don't have to rely on this person to pay me.
Like I go and find my coin. Is this really neat thing that I
want more nurses to understand that were You are diving deep
get as much knowledge as you can.
And then now that knowledge becomes your property, right?
Like your intellectual property and you can actually sell that
and I don't think that we're encouraged to do that.
So it's really cool to hear that.
That was your aha moment and you really saw, your eyes were open
to. That was your ketamine
experience. Exactly.
Crush my head wondering bigger for sure.
Your challenges that you had to overcome in your years as a
practicing nurse and nurse practitioner.
So there's always the stories of your as a fledgling nurse where
you're trying to figure things out and worried that you've
harmed a patient or broken a protocol, or had it out with
another personality in the nursing eating, the young, all
those kind of stories, I have. But I think the, the challenge,
the most prescient Challenge, and the one that that I'm still
sort of battling with is the just that Idea that your, that I
am legitimate that I have something to say, and then it's
worthwhile and trying to straddle.
I mean, talk about two worlds being in a military environment
every day and then going home at night and studying up on
psychedelic prep, plant medicine presentations, and try to
talking to doing my coaching call with nurse preneurcast,
basically, from a broom closet. At work, trying not to have.
Anybody hear me talk about LSD and ecstasy, cannabis that has
been a challenge, but I think Think my hands are sort of tied
as far as what I can tell these guys who are who are active duty
as they're getting ready to exit, we can sort of have the
conversation that cannabis is equivalent to an opiate or a
benzo. You can explore this, now that
you're no longer going to be an active duty member, you can try
a ketamine clinic and just so coming down the line, there will
be more opportunities for you to utilize these medicines for your
PTSD. We're working with guys that are
suffering so much every day on all Aspects of their being is
really hard on the soul and that is a challenge that I enjoy.
And that, I mean, every day trying to treat each of these
guys with respect and drill down a little bit in my time that I
have with them and not just make it about offering the a muscle
relaxant and anti-inflammatory. Try to really talk with them
about where is your pain? Really your back or do we have a
situation where you're not being straight about what's bothering
you what you've seen? We know what's happened?
I think you have an interesting perspective.
As well. Being a guy alongside of a guy
at my job and I work also, with in the military, kind of like
veterans, I notice that men are a lot more receptive to what he
says, and I'm like, I just said that, like just said what he
just said. Like, I'm in the moment that a
guy says it, they automatically receive it and then he makes fun
of them he's like I'll listen you have a what is it?
An X Y chromosome, you're not ever going to think, right or
whatever. And like I'm just like how did
you just get away with saying that like, how did and I think
Because he the perspective of where you're coming from and you
really do elicit a sense of like the people can talk to you that
you can just open up and share your making a difference.
Not even prescribing something sometimes.
I've noticed they just need someone to talk to like and just
having somebody there that can understand them and that they
can open up. To I know is making a big
difference. So but it would be really great
to be able to say, Hey, listen, these mushrooms, you can eat a
really great for you or so, actually, there was a study not
too long ago. Go in the advances in nutrition.
They had done a systematic review, looking at individuals
that 8 18 grams of mushrooms daily.
Had a 45 percent lower risk of cancer compared to those who
didn't eat mushrooms. They were talking shiitake,
King, oyster mushrooms, oyster. Mushrooms like different types
of mushrooms. I love mushrooms in normal
regulated mushrooms from the grocery store.
I eat them almost everyday. And when I read the study, I
was, I don't think we know what mushrooms can do.
Like lowers your risk of cancer by almost 50% in the studies
that they were looking at. I was like that's kind of a big
deal significant. I'll tag that article in my show
notes so people can read it was definitely interesting and again
just kind of going back to what you do.
I really think that we don't really understand how much
plants can help us and really an unlocking that is going to be
incredible. Incredible to the world.
Did you have any mentors? Anybody along the way that
helped you with developing your career?
I was really lucky to have good. Doctors.
That I worked with, you hear a lot of anecdotes about the
struggle of the nurse practitioner and the doctor and
I was really fortunate. I was embraced and especially
jumping into primary care. Like I said, you can I learned a
lot in a short amount of time about pain but when I jumped
into the realm of, here's every patient with every malady of
when, and every drugs on the table and anything can be used.
Fortunately, I was in a community health center, so at
least I didn't have to worry about the latest and greatest
drugs. You just kind of had to have
your base. Arsenal, but I'm dr.
Mary for a back was a incredible mentor to me during my first
years as a as a primary care nurse practitioner.
And then hear more recently with regards to what I'm doing.
Now, there's a guy named Andrew pain, who is a nurse
practitioner on the staff of University, California San
Francisco? Who is a huge proponent of
psychedelic plant medicine, and he is just a wonderful resource
and guide and Teacher and wouldn't say we have a
mentorship formal mentoring relationship but he offered me
to use some of his slides for my first presentation and gave me
good feedback after my first webinar that I did too.
So that he's just been a great person to bounce things off of,
and he's just a huge resource Publishers like crazy teaches
all the time. He's just a really passionate
about the and I guess the last question that we have for
today's podcast is what advice would you give to a new nurse?
A starting offered her career. It doesn't really know what to
do, where to go. What would be the advice that
you wish you would have known when you were getting started?
It's a good one. Again, I became a nurse as a
career changer. What I thought I wanted was not
what I have so far achieved, right?
So you I think people need to keep an open mind.
You need to remember that your Nursing degree opens.
Any door that you want to walk through and that is one of the
reasons why when the Young Sailors at work.
Some of the young Navy guys that are thinking about being
corpsman or going on with their careers and Medicine, always try
to keep an eye towards the fact that you can do anything with
that degree. You can go into any field that
suits you what? I was brought, I felt like I was
sort of rushed through my masters and you sort of do these
six-week rotations. Okay.
This is what psyche does and this is what labor delivery is
like. And this is what Ortho floor and
all those things you just get these little glimpses and then
it's like, okay, now choose. Now we got to get you through
this program. We gotta go.
Out of here. So I think if you haven't gotten
a taste of everything that you imagine, you can do, it's really
important to keep your eyes open.
Look for the opportunities that are available in your area or
outside your area. Look where they're recruiting,
little try to be clear about what is it that you like about
nursing? Is that the interaction with the
people are? You would rather be in the ICU
and have that patient zonked out.
And just there's people who people who love to keep those
pumps going and take down the measurements and the readings,
you Have to kind of be in tune with yourself and know what it
is that you like to do and then figure out how to make them fit
into the career rather than Vice Versa.
Oh, there's an opening in labor and delivery, so I should go do
that even though I can't stand crying babies.
Well, what were you thinking? You got to stay open to your
calling and that's going to change.
In the beautiful thing about nursing is, as you grow in a
Volvo and your interests change. You can fit yourself into a
niche, like psychedelics. I mean, who would have thought
when I when I was a kid smoking grass again.
It's hot number one. I never would have thought that
the Cannabis would become a legal medicine that I could talk
about, let alone, sit and write a scrip pad for ketamine
infusion. So you just you never know and I
think it's really important to keep an open mind.
I agree with all of that snaps to all that.
Now we are moving into the final portion of the interview.
Interview interview interview, trying to do like an echo.
This is the rapid fire question portion, where I'm going to give
you questions, that you weren't able to prepare for.
Are you ready, Eric? Let's go.
All right. Are you a morning person?
Person or a night person morning person.
Okay. And what is the strangest thing
you have ever eaten? I don't know if we should maybe
say that on here and I'm just kidding.
Tell me what's the weirdest thing you've ever eaten?
I would go with the lungs of a yak when I was in Tibet.
Okay, that is, I have questions, but we'll keep moving on.
If you've had a yacht, what would you call?
Wow, Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds.
Thank you for coming odd podcast today.
I had an absolute glass with you Eric.
Thank you for all your knowledge and sharing your journey with
the rest of Of the world so that nurses can hear how your career
can develop and how to find the gaps in nursing and the gaps in
health care. And I think nurses need to be
the bridge in those gaps and I think it's really cool how
you're you're bridging those gaps and your job.
Absolutely Sunder. I really appreciate what you're
doing in this podcast is amazing.
It's were nurses. And we make a difference and the
sky's the limit just have faith in yourself and again, look for
those opportunities. Thanks so much.
Thank you. We are at the end of our time
together. I really enjoyed the chat,
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